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85. Your Pointe Shoe Fairy Godmother: Finding the Right Fit with Josephine Lee
173 Plays23 days ago
In this episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, I’m joined by Josephine Lee, founder and CEO of The Pointe Shop and the first official pointe shoe fitter of San Francisco Ballet. With over 15 years of experience, Josephine is one of the most influential and trusted pointe shoe fitters in the world.
We dive deep into what actually makes a pointe shoe right (or wrong), why pain is not something dancers should push through, and how pointe shoe fitting is a dynamic, ever-changing process throughout a dancer’s career.
Josephine also breaks down virtual pointe shoe fittings, common misconceptions dancers have about their shoes, the real risks of dancing in dead shoes, and what dancers can do to advocate for themselves, especially when they don’t yet have the language to describe what they’re feeling.
This conversation is equal parts educational, practical, and eye-opening, and it’s a must-listen for dancers at every stage, as well as teachers and parents who want to support long-term dancer health.
Key Points in this Episode:
- Josephine’s path into pointe shoe fitting and building The Pointe Shop
- Why pointe shoe fitting is not a one-and-done process
- How virtual pointe shoe fittings work
- Common pointe shoe misconceptions dancers have
- The dangers of dancing in shoes that are too dead
- The truth about “cheater shoes” and synthetic pointe shoes
- What dancers should track to advocate for themselves long-term
Connect with Josephine:
WEBSITE: thepointeshop.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thepointeshop
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/josephineylee
Links and Resources:
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Get 20% off your first order of ALOHA protein bars: https://aloha.com/BRAINYBALLERINA
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
Recommended
Transcript
The Importance of Proper Pointe Shoes
00:00:00
Speaker
So there's no such thing really as a neutral point shoe. So point shoe is going to either make you stronger or it's going to hurt you. And trying to figure out where you have to land in order for you to continue to get better and stronger and challenge the dancer, as well as something that will keep you safe, is a very fine balance.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm Kaitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry.
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer.
Introduction to Experts: Kaitlin Sloan and Josephine Lee
00:00:47
Speaker
Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Kaitlyn Sloan, and I am joined today by Josephine Lee. Josephine is the founder and CEO of The Point Shop and the first official pointe shoe fitter of the San Francisco Ballet. And you have become one of the most influential pointe shoe fitters in this industry. Can you tell us how you first got into this career?
00:01:17
Speaker
My mom was a pointe shoe fitter. So I've been doing this for just over 15 years now. So my mom was a dancer back in Korea. And then when we moved to the States and i was getting fitted for pointe shoes, she realized that there's not a lot of options available. So she decided to just start doing pointe shoe fittings on her own. And then she built up a reputation that way. And I started fitting as a teenager at my mom's store.
00:01:42
Speaker
So that's how it started. Did you just grow up watching her? I did. I grew up watching her and I also went to go to all of the things that she went to. She went to a lot of pointy seminars. She went to a lot of retail shows. She really dove into learning a lot about the different brands. And I went with her to all of those things because I was actively dancing at that time. So this was something that was very interesting to me as well. So my mom was able to just take me everywhere she went.
Josephine Lee's Journey in Pointe Shoe Fitting
00:02:08
Speaker
And did you think at that time that this would become your career as well? Not at all. I really didn't think that I was going to continue this path. I was just very interested in it just because I was dancing at that time. I did not think that this was, one, a skill that was unusual and something that's rare. and I also didn't know that this is something that I was going to continue on as an adult. So how did you start the point shop? What's that story?
00:02:34
Speaker
So I graduated from college in 2010. And at that time, the job market was really difficult because it was just a couple years after the major crash. Jobs are really hard to get. So I just kind of fell back to what I knew, which was dance retail, because I grew up doing it. So I decided to open up my own store and then realized that discount dance was really, really prominent at that time. And the online e-commerce was really booming. So there was really no way for me to compete with these online retailers. i couldn't compete with their prices. They've undercut everybody. So the margins were just not going to ah let us survive. And i couldn't compete with our inventory because
00:03:14
Speaker
Clearly they had a lot more capital to be able to support that. But what I did realize is that point shoe fitting was very difficult to do online at that time. That was one thing that I had the advantage over just about anybody else because I grew up doing it and I understood point shoe fittings. So I really leaned into that and instead of going online and doing more e-commerce, I went the other direction and I wanted to do more pointy fittings, bring the pointy fittings
Adapting to Virtual Fittings During COVID
00:03:40
Speaker
to studios. I started traveling to studios everywhere in the country. i really went the other direction with that. And that's how i kind of built up my reputation and took my mom's fittings everywhere in the country.
00:03:51
Speaker
And now you're really known for your virtual pointe shoe fittings, which I think is such an interesting model. Can you explain how a virtual fitting works? Sure. so I didn't start doing virtual fittings regularly until COVID. The only people that I did virtual fittings for were people in Alaska and Hawaii. And that's because I have no way to drive my car to them. I only allowed them to do it. So how it normally works is just like a regular point shoe fitting in person, except that I have to be even more accurate because i only have one shoe to try on. So it's as if like, if you go into the store and I have to nail it the first time, like the first pull that I have, and that requires a lot of questioning and everything. So it's a little bit more in depth in terms of like the conversation between the fitter and the dancer. And if there's a teacher there, it's even better because they can tell me some things that the dancer may not even know or something that happens in class that the dancer may not have even noticed that they do. So there's just a lot of questions at the beginning. I assess their foot type, their range of motion, their technique, their strength level, all of those things, just like we would do in a normal in-person fitting. And then I take a look at those shoes that they are currently in. And that actually gives me a lot of information on which direction we need to go. So sizing and problems that they're running into with their current pointe shoes and how I can help fix all of those things. According to all of those answers, I select the shoe that I think would work best for the dancer. We send them the shoe and then we do a follow-up fitting to make sure that everything fits well. And I would say that 95% of the time, it's the shoe that I wanted to pull
Challenges in Fitting First-Time Pointe Dancers
00:05:28
Speaker
for them. And it actually made me into a better pointe shoe fitter because I have to be so accurate.
00:05:33
Speaker
As opposed to when I'm doing pointe shoe fitting in person, I have so many chances to be wrong and then like pull out all of these shoes to see if it'll work or not. So I rely a lot more on like pointe shoe fitting theory and when it comes to virtual fittings rather than practice.
00:05:49
Speaker
When you see point shoe fitting theory, what does that mean? So there are different things that are supposed to happen when you pull out a certain shoe or when you're trying to fix a problem. So let's say that you have a problem getting over on your point shoes. There's a couple different theories that will lead to a certain shoe. Like it could either be that the shoe is too hard, that the vamp is too long, that the wings are too long. It could be that the crown is too low. It could be that the dancer doesn't have enough range of motion. It could be that the pointe shoe is too tapered. There could be a lot of different reasons for this one problem. And then I start to narrow those down according to the shoe that she's having a problem with, as well as the dancer's natural range of motion and strength level and technique. So after I eliminate a lot of these other problems, I narrow it down to one shoe.
00:06:36
Speaker
And usually that is according to like, in theory, this would work because of all of these problems that I'm seeing and or all of these issues that I am seeing with their prior shoes. And then we select the shoe and i send it in. And in theory, that will get her over her box.
00:06:54
Speaker
Does it always work in practice? Most of the time it does. However, there are a certain percentage that doesn't work for. And then that's what the follow-up fitting is for. we just then go back and forth, which is not the most efficient, but it's certainly a lot better than not having any options to try on shoes or being able to go into a location where they don't have any options at all for them.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense because I feel like in my experience, a lot of times trying on shoes, the first one I try on is the one I end up coming back to. So it almost is like your first instinct is probably correct. Exactly. And like, it doesn't always happen that way, but it certainly...
00:07:34
Speaker
has to with virtual fittings because obviously you can't go back and forth too many times. But it definitely gives you more options, especially if you're living in a location where you don't have access to a large inventory or if you don't have access to a pointe-two fitter that's been trained, then it is a much better option than what you have there.
Replacing Discontinued Shoes and Adapting to Changes
00:07:53
Speaker
Are you only doing these virtual fittings with dancers who have already been on points or do you do it with first-time pointe dancers as well? I do with first time point shoe fitters as well. That one is a little bit more difficult than someone who already has a pair of point shoes only because we have nothing to compare with and we don't know any of the problems that the dancer is running into yet. So first pair is a little bit more difficult also because of the sizing. So we can measure the dancer's feet, but we all know that feet are not like rocks. Like it doesn't retain its shape and size when it's on point. You're a different size and a different shape when you're pointing your feet. and you're a different size and different shape when you're weight-bearing versus non-weight-bearing. So we change a lot. And that percentage of how much you shrink or swell is dependent on the person. So I can't even calculate that virtually. So we do our best to kind of measure their feet and then figure out their sizing, but it's not always accurate. And I always have dancers that prefer their shoes a little bit tighter or a little bit looser, depending on where they are in their skill level. So that's also difficult as well. But again, if you don't have any options available, then this is a great option for you. Like, again, we get a ton of people from the middle of the States or Hawaii, or like a bunch of other locations where they just don't have any options at all. And it's better than that. Okay, this is a personal question. But what if you had a pair of pointe shoes that you loved and they discontinued them? So I always work at PZO Glissés. And that was my favorite. Is there a shoe out there that is similar to those that I should look for?
00:09:31
Speaker
Are you pretty wide? Yeah. Okay. So when you look at a discontinued shoe, you have to one figure out why you like the shoe. So if you were in the Gliese, usually it means that you're pretty square, pretty wide, and then you like a lot more volume inside your box. So that means that you have to find another shoe that has those similar qualities that will also support you. And then you also have to think about, are there any things that didn't work out for you, even though you love 90% of the shoe? Like, is there a 10% that we can fix? Yeah. Was the fabric a little bit too low? Or did the heel slip off? Or something restrict you from doing certain things? And we can also try to help fix that as well. It's very difficult if you really love your shoe. And the more experienced a dancer is in a shoe, the harder it is to switch them out of it because you're not going to get exactly the same thing. I remember like Lise was very lightweight. even though it had a lot of volume inside the box. It didn't have a lot of material and it broke very well. And I really love the glue that they used as well. But there's nothing exactly like the Glissé, but I can find you something that is similar in terms of how you like the shoe. So if you like a lot of volume, I can find you a shoe that has a lot of volume. If you like the lightweightness of that shoe, then I can find you something that's lighter weight. But we just have to figure out exactly why you like the shoe and then try to find those qualities in another one
00:10:55
Speaker
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. What is one thing you wish that every dancer knew before they come into a fitting with you, whether it's virtually or in person? That your pointy fitting is a dynamic process.
00:11:07
Speaker
And even professional dancers change their shoes all the time. you're not going to find your perfect shoe because your feet are changing constantly and your technique is changing constantly and you might get an injury and then your feet can be completely different coming back from that injury. And there's so many different processes, even as an adult, even though you're done growing, your feet still change. So if you're wearing the same exact shoe that you wore five years ago, and I'm not just talking about pointe shoes here, I'm talking about regular shoes. your feet might be completely different and it may need something different. Like people can go from a normal arch to a flat arch or a high arch as you change.
00:11:45
Speaker
There's so many different things that change about your feet and people just don't notice.
Balancing Career Demands with Foot Health
00:11:49
Speaker
And if you're in the wrong shoes, regardless of if you're in a point shoe or a regular shoe, it's going to do damage to your feet. So that's something that people kind of ignore and they just kind of buy shoes because aesthetics reasons or like because You like the look of it, but really there's so much more to that. And your feet are so important, but I feel like it's just a part of your life that you just don't think about much. I'm obsessed with shoes and feet and all things healthcare. care And then it's just wild to me that that's something that kind of gets sidelined.
00:12:22
Speaker
Is it just so gradual, the changes that we just don't notice it? Absolutely. I think a lot of people don't realize, and then they also get very attached to the shoe and the way that you dance, even if it's raw. There's a ton of professional dancers that come from all over the world. And as difficult as it is to find a shoe in the United States, it's even more difficult to find it elsewhere. So if you're coming from a country that literally only had one brand to work with, you're just used to being trained in that shoe. It's doing a lot of damage to your feet because it's wrong. You may still feel more comfortable in that shoe that's incorrect than the shoe that is correct.
00:13:01
Speaker
So that's something that is very difficult to grapple with for me as a pointe shoe bidder because like I want them to be comfortable in their shoes. But also, like you have to think about what your feet will be beyond point, beyond dance. like Are you doing permanent damage to your feet? Are you ready to do surgery when you're 35? It's like there's certain things that you need to think about. It's hard. It's always going to be a mix of what the dancer wants and also what we see. Yeah, and I get that that's hard when you're professional too because you don't feel like you have time to go through that awkward phase that it takes to get used to the new shoe. It's like you don't have that leeway to be like, well, these are new shoes, so it might be a little bit off. They don't always accept that.
00:13:42
Speaker
Exactly. can be tricky. Exactly. And a lot of dancers feel the same way about injuries too. They just kind of push through it because they're like, I only have so many seasons in my life. And i would rather suffer later on and be the best that I can at this moment, even if it's kind of shortening that lifespan.
00:14:00
Speaker
Yeah. Which at the time feels like the right thing to do. But as I'm getting older, there are many things that I wish I would have listened to the older people who told me to take care of my body better. Exactly. It's really hard to think long term when you're in the trenches. I get it. hmm.
00:14:17
Speaker
If you're a dancer who's feeling lost, overwhelmed, or even just unsure about your next career step, I am here for you. As a former professional ballet dancer turned dance career mentor, I help dancers get clear on what they really want out of their careers and build a real, actionable strategy to get them there.
00:14:36
Speaker
Whether you need help setting goals, planning for auditions, navigating mindset blocks, or just having someone in your corner who gets what you're going through and can hold you accountable, mentorship can make all the difference.
Factors in Pointe Shoe Fittings: Beginners vs Professionals
00:14:50
Speaker
If you're curious about whether working with a dance career mentor is the right fit for you, I offer a complimentary career consultation so we can talk through your unique goals and challenges.
00:15:00
Speaker
Just head to the show notes to schedule your consultation and let's fill the dance career you've been dreaming about. You kind of covered this a bit, but just to really lay it out, can you share what are the first things that you're looking at when you're working with a dancer? What are you assessing for when you first see them? It depends on where they are in their career. I fit very differently for professional dancers as I do for a first pair of pointe shoes. And I fit very differently for a recreational adult dancer rather than someone who is pre-professional getting ready to go into a company. So one, I look at where they are and what what our goals are. Is it going to competition? Is it doing auditions? Where are you in your career? Do we have some more time to kind of get used to certain shoes? Do we have some time to play with certain brands and models? Or do we need to perform the Sugar Plum Fairy like next week, right? So it's very different. But in general, if we're talking about dancers in training, dancers that have a little bit more time, I'm looking at their natural biomechanics.
00:16:04
Speaker
And then I'm also looking at what their strengths and weaknesses are. So biomechanics, meaning like everyone's slightly different between their left and their right. They're going to be slightly stronger on one side more than the other. There are going to be slight tendencies that you have.
00:16:20
Speaker
to overcompensate? And everybody has it, even if it's just slight. Are we slightly pronating more than the other? are we supinating? Is your heel correctly aligned? So I'm looking at all of those different things first, and then seeing if there's a way to correct it. So it's almost like if you're a pedorthist and you're trying to fit for custom orthotics, but we're doing that with a pointe shoe. So do we need a flatter sole to give you more stability? Do we need to have Something that's a three-quarter arch because we need more arch support. So I'm trying to fix like slight biomechanical differences between the left and the right. And then I'm looking at their strength and their range of motion and what will help them get better. So there's no such thing really as a neutral point shoe. So point shoe is going to either make you stronger or it's going to hurt you.
00:17:10
Speaker
And trying to figure out where you have to land in order for you to continue to get better and stronger and challenge the dancer, as well as something that will keep you safe, is a very fine balance.
00:17:24
Speaker
And this is why we need to continue on the conversation between the fitter and the dancer. throughout their dancing career because that all changes and we need to figure out exactly where they are in order for us to continue that trend. These are all things that we take into mind and also that changes. So sometimes I'll have a dancer that comes in and they're like pronating and then like the next time it's gone. And it's wild because I feel like dancers change a lot more than regular people. because dancers are constantly working their feet. They're constantly changing and their muscles develop and all of those things. So they change a lot. So we need to see them at least once every six months in order for us to figure out if there's any changes that are positive or negative. and Once every six months when they are teenagers or all the way through a career? The first two or three years of getting fitted for pointe shoes, they should get fitted every time. Oh, so you shouldn't just like find a shoe and then order it online. You should keep coming in.
00:18:22
Speaker
Exactly. Unless you're buying like a second pair to go into performance or like auditions or whatever. I typically don't change their shoes before an audition or a show if the dancer is doing okay. If she's not doing okay or if he's not doing okay, then of course I will change it. But usually I want them to have some kind of consistency going into something that has a higher level. But if I'm looking at a dancer and if she is having some issues, then we will obviously change that.
00:18:51
Speaker
And then as a professional, like how often would you want them to be seen? So when I'm fitting professional dancers, they usually know what they want. Like they know what worked for them and what didn't work for them. When I get a dancer who's like 17 or 18, just getting into the core, then like they may need a little bit more guidance and help, especially if they didn't have that when they were growing up. But usually if you're a principal dancer, they know what they want. So it's really listening to what they're having issues with, and then just kind of fixing those things according to the dancer with The dancers who are a little bit younger, we give them a little bit more guidance. Like you need more support. You need to be held back. You need to be pushed over more. You need to be better aligned. But with professional dancers, they know where their feet are.
00:19:36
Speaker
They know how they balance. They know where their alignment is. So we're just trying to get them to a place where they can dance optimally. So they're just a little bit different.
Alignment Issues and Recognizing Poor Fitting
00:19:45
Speaker
It's a lot more listening and then a lot more guidance.
00:19:49
Speaker
What are some of the most common fitting issues that you see when dancers come to you? And how could dancers recognize this in themselves? For instance, like, as you said, professional dancers have this instinct and knowledge with their body What would you tell younger dancers to help them be able to build that skill?
00:20:07
Speaker
For younger dancers, alignment is probably one of the most important and like one of the most difficult things to fix. It's very common. Whether you're too far forward, too far back, you're leaning one side or another, like alignment is kind of an issue. And for dancers that are younger, it's actually very difficult for them to know when they are well aligned.
00:20:29
Speaker
So sometimes I'm like, even if the dancer is looking in the mirror and they're going up on point, I'll ask them like, do you have any problems getting over your box? And then they'll say no. And then they go up on point and they're watching the mirror and they're not over their box. And they still say that they're over their pointe shoes. So there is kind of a disconnect when you're a little bit younger, you just don't know.
00:20:54
Speaker
and you don't know where the alignment is. So understanding stability and proprioception is a little bit more important. That usually comes with more experience. And usually your teacher will hammer that into you enough times that they will start to notice. But it is quite wild to me that we're looking at the same exact thing and then like they're saying that they're doing something that they're clearly not. Yeah, I do think in general, with my students at least, like the tendency when I was a kid too is to pull back, right? Like not to get your weight all the way over the ball of your foot when you're on flat shoes and then on your point too. I think that's definitely a common thing.
00:21:36
Speaker
a common issue I see as a teacher. Right, exactly. Yeah. What would you say are the biggest misconceptions that dancers might have about what makes a pointe shoe right for them?
00:21:47
Speaker
Pain is a really good indication. Pain is there to help you understand when something is incorrect. So if something is excruciatingly painful, that's usually wrong.
00:21:59
Speaker
Like you shouldn't be in excruciating pain. So pain is a good indication to figure out if something is incorrect. I think that when the dancer feels comfortable and lifted, and obviously regardless of the shoe, if you're dancing 12 hours on point, you know, you may get a blister, even if the shoe is correct, it's just the way that it is, but it shouldn't be excruciating. And then if the dancer feels like they are lifted off the floor, their toenails are not bruising. They feel like they're right on top of their box. You feel like you are in the middle of the center of your box and your wear patterns are showing so.
00:22:35
Speaker
And you feel like you're able to balance well, optimally. Your pointe shoes are there to help you. So it should feel like you are at your
Risks of Worn-Out Shoes and Extending Shoe Life
00:22:43
Speaker
best. I think a lot of people also don't know when their shoes are dying.
00:22:47
Speaker
And their teachers often have to tell them when their shoes are dying and they're not getting enough support from it. That's another indication to know. Like if you're not able to balance well, all of a sudden you're not able to releve off of one foot, things like that. If something suddenly becomes difficult to you, then that's also probably wrong.
00:23:06
Speaker
Can you talk about the danger of dancing on pointe shoes that are too dead? Yes. So everyone's dead point is all different. So a shoe that's dead for one dancer may be perfectly fine for someone else. And the only way to know that is if you're up on point and then you feel like you're well supported. And the way that a pointe shoe is designed is specifically meant to support you in a 360 degree way. So it should give you enough support on the front of your foot, the sides of your foot, and on the backbone of your foot. So like on the arch. If one of these locations fails, you're going to feel like you're either collapsing into one side or another. You may feel like you're collapsing forward or would get pulled back.
00:23:51
Speaker
And then also you will start to feel like there's a lot more stress on your feet. So if any part of your shoe starts to fail, that could lead to a stress fracture.
00:24:01
Speaker
it could lead to long-term issues like stretched ligaments, or it may give you tendinitis. It might give you a lot of different places where you can get inflammation. So a lot of injuries could stem from the shoe being too dead.
00:24:15
Speaker
Can you talk about what it means for a dancer if they have the tendency to for their box to die quicker or for their shank to die quicker? Like I always had where my box was completely mushed, my shank would be totally fine. And I have friends who are the exact opposite. What is that telling you? You will notice that it does something different in every shoe. So you may have a shoe where the box is perfectly intact, but the shank dies quicker and then vice versa. So it really depends on the shoe. But that's perfectly normal. I don't know anybody who kills their box and their shank at the exact same time.
00:24:47
Speaker
So it just depends on the shoe and the construction and how it's created. And then it also depends on how you dance. Regardless of the shoe, if you're always breaking your box, that means that you're harder like on point, right? So you are really banging that shoe home. So if that's the case, there's nothing wrong with that per se. It's just that you know where to strengthen the shoe.
00:25:09
Speaker
So if you have like agents that will help harden your shoes, like doing the jet glue or you're doing, you know, something else, then it'll help you make the shoe last longer. So it's just information, not necessarily something that's wrong.
00:25:23
Speaker
If you could teach dancers a skill that will help them advocate for themselves in a fitting, like maybe they're going to see somebody else who's not you or somebody who's maybe not as experienced, what would you tell them in order to advocate for themselves in that moment or speak up about? That's really hard because a lot of dancers, actually, I find that adult dancers who are recreational dancers are extremely good at this because they know their bodies very well.
00:25:51
Speaker
They know exactly what hurts. They know exactly where it's unstable. And they can tell you exactly how the shoes are feeling on their feet. A lot of times when the dancer is younger, it's not that they're not trying to advocate for themselves. They just don't know.
00:26:09
Speaker
it's really hard for them to know. like They don't know if something hurts. They don't know if they are not stable. It's more likely that they don't know than that they know. It's the responsibility of the fitter to ask every single question so that the dancer will think about it and say, oh, wait, that isn't stable. Or yes, I do feel like I'm spilling over. or yet I feel like I'm pulled back or whatever it is. So it's just a little bit difficult for younger dancers to actually know what they're feeling, especially because if you're excited to get another pair, then that also adds to not really being able to understand. So it's too much responsibility for the dancer. i think that the fitter has to ask the right questions for them to be able to get to the right answer. And even if they do ask the right questions, sometimes they still don't know.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah, like so for a dancer who's in a fitting, how can they tell the difference between what's normal point discomfort and what is a really bad fit? So if you're going up on point for 30 seconds during a pointy fitting, and if you feel any discomfort at all,
00:27:17
Speaker
that's probably a good indication that we need to change something. Because you're only up for a couple seconds. If something starts to feel uncomfortable or painful, then that means that it's going to be excruciating later on. So no pain is normal pain during a pointe shoe fitting. And then I also let them know too that like when you start to dance and if you start to feel something painful, ben then we can also talk.
00:27:41
Speaker
And try to get rid of that. And like, I know that there's this idea of like, you have to push through the pain and it's okay. And then you have to be
Diverse Pointe Shoe Options and Misconceptions
00:27:49
Speaker
tough and all that. It's not a matter of toughness or not. Like for me, pain is a really good indication because there's overcompensation that can happen that it can actually reduce.
00:27:58
Speaker
lead to a really bad injury. So pain is like, you're not just pushing through the pain, you're compensating. So if your big toe, for instance, starts to hurt, you start to sickle because subconsciously you're trying to take pressure off of that big toe, or you'll start to pull yourself back. And then what does that do? it starts to put pressure on your Achilles and it starts to get inflamed. So it can lead to other issues that are far worse than just getting a blister or bruised toenail. So it's not really about if something is hurting or not, or if you're being a baby or like, you you know, like it's not about that. I'm trying to prevent all of those chain reactions from happening.
00:28:39
Speaker
Let's quickly pause this episode so I can share with you one of my favorite snacks that I have been loving lately. as a busy dancer, educator, and mom, I am always looking for a snack that I can throw into my dance bag that will be quick, convenient, and provide lasting energy.
00:28:58
Speaker
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00:29:12
Speaker
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00:29:26
Speaker
And the best news is you can get 20% off your first order with code BRAINYBALLERINA. Head to the show notes and click the link to try Aloha Protein Bars for yourself today. What are you seeing with all the evolution pointe shoes right now? what do you think the future of pointe shoes is going to look like?
00:29:43
Speaker
Hopefully not so different than what it is right now. I am seeing a lot more synthetic shoes on the market, which I love. And I love innovation in pointe shoes. But I think that there is something... really lovely about the art of creating pointe shoes itself.
00:29:58
Speaker
And the way that you are creating art to support artists is such a wonderful and beautiful relationship that I hope that that part of the world doesn't change too much. However, do love and respect companies that try to bring in innovation to make it easier for the dancers. So for instance, I love that there's more options for different foot shapes and different feet sizes. When I was on point, Russian point started just coming on the scene. And at that time, they only went up to 39 and not a lot of stores carried 39. And I'm like 41. So even at that time, was a 41 and I was cramming my foot into a 38 because that was the largest size available. And having the wrong size is worse than having the wrong shape.
00:30:50
Speaker
So having enough sizes. And then since then, like Russian Point came out with like size 45 and size 46. So like there are a lot more now. And i love that there's just more diversity in foot shapes and and sizes.
00:31:05
Speaker
So I just want that to be more common, to find more ways to fit different types of feet rather than like using different materials and doing cool
Marketing Pointe Shoe Fittings Through Social Media
00:31:16
Speaker
things. and you know like All of that is great, but it's just like the dancer, first and foremost, needs to have the correct size. so like I think that is actually one of the most important things is that you know we have the correct shape and size. One thing you hear a lot from people is like a Gator Minden or a synthetic shoe is like a cheater shoe. People will say, like what's your opinion on that?
00:31:37
Speaker
Every shoe can be a cheater shoe. Every shoe can be a cheater shoe if the shoe is too supportive. So I talked earlier about how there is no neutral shoe. You're either getting stronger or you're getting worse, right? So it's usually dependent on how much support you have. If you have too much support, that means that the shoe is doing work for you and you're actually staying the same or you're getting worse. Yeah. If the dancer is in a shoe that's not supportive enough, then you're actively hurting yourself because you're not getting enough support from the shoe. So you need to find that perfect balance between enough support and not enough support. It needs to be perfect.
00:32:17
Speaker
But for Gaynor Minden, when it first came on the scene, People just didn't understand how to fit a synthetic shoe, including myself. Like I didn't know. So a lot of people would go into a store and get fitted for gainer mind and exactly like getting fitted for a normal shoe, which is like how a shoe should feel at the very beginning.
00:32:39
Speaker
So a freed at the very beginning has to be a hardest that you wear, right? It should be the most supportive. And then as the shoe starts to die, the dancer relies more and more on your foot strength to be able to get up on their pointe shoes until the shoe completely dies and it's not giving you enough support. However, because a gainer minden or any other synthetic shoe stays pretty much the same amount of support the entire time, it needs to be fitted as if you've worn it 10 hours.
00:33:07
Speaker
you know And then like a lot of people just got fitted for a shoe that's too supportive and it felt like a brand new shoe the entire time that they're wearing it. So that's where this idea of cheater shoe came on because the shoe just was always so supportive that it always sprang you up like a brand new shoe. That makes sense. Yeah. You have to get fitted a little softer as if it's like almost on the verge of like, this feels a little too soft.
00:33:34
Speaker
Like you want it to feel like, oh, these are like really performance ready. And it feels like if this was a traditional shoe, I can wear this for this performance and it'll probably die after. It should feel like that.
00:33:45
Speaker
Like just enough challenge, just enough that you have to continue to work. One thing that I really love about you is how you share your reaction videos and all of your opinions on social media. Do you have any really spicy point shoe opinions that you've shared?
00:33:59
Speaker
i don't think I share a lot of, I'm definitely, like, you should probably ask Riley because I am not very spicy online. Like, I definitely, this is just a me problem, but if I really don't like a shoe, then i just don't talk about it.
00:34:15
Speaker
Because like, I don't know, maybe it will work for someone else. But like, I just don't share it because I don't want to like talk badly about a shoe because it could work for a very small number of people.
00:34:26
Speaker
And, you know, I don't want to kill that for them.
Tracking Shoe Fitting Progress and Conclusion
00:34:29
Speaker
So I definitely don't talk about things that I don't like because it's at the end of the day, it's still my opinion. How did you get started doing social media and YouTube and all of that?
00:34:39
Speaker
I have no money for marketing. So like when I first started doing social media, I started out on Facebook. That was like the biggest thing. Like I didn't even know what YouTube was. So when I first started out, it was Facebook because I didn't have a budget. Like I said, I was up against these huge e-commerce giants. And I didn't have money for ads I didn't have any money for like a big campaign or I didn't have money for anything. it was just me and that was it So social media was free. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. This is how I'm going to spread the word. I didn't even have money to like print out flyers.
00:35:18
Speaker
to give to the studios. So I was like, oh, it's free to just like create a meme online. And it's so funny. I made these like memes like 15 years ago and I kind of see them like floating around on Pinterest still. I was like, oh my God, I made this like 10 years ago. That's crazy. But I used to make these memes on Facebook. So that's how I actually got started on social media.
00:35:38
Speaker
And at that time, Facebook was very easy to crack into as a business because everybody was just advertising sales and they were boosting their advertisements. right But because I didn't have money to boost it, I had to go viral in order to... So I had to figure out a way to connect with my audience and And that was through humor and that was through education. And then I started creating videos on YouTube just for educational purposes, because a lot of people were asking a lot of questions about pointe shoes. I would just do talking heads about the most frequently asked questions just so I can send them the link.
00:36:16
Speaker
to answer all of them instead of me saying the same thing over and over again. And then I got picked up by Point Magazine and i started doing some more videos for Point Magazine. and then we started doing more media and Instagram and all of that during the pandemic because I had so much time because we weren't selling anything during the pandemic. So did a huge rebrand during the pandemic and that's when it really took off. It was a journey through many different platforms and many different types of content. But we've always created, we've always evolved with the times and hopefully we'll still be relevant in five, 10 years because hopefully we'll continue to evolve with the audience. Yeah. Okay, last question I have for you. If there was one thing that you wish every dancer listening today would do when it comes to taking care of their feet or their long-term health as a dancer, what would you tell them? Keep record.
00:37:14
Speaker
Keep record of what is going on with your shoes and what is going on with you. So I have these dancers that carry around a notebook that take down all of the corrections as well as the type of shoes that they're wearing and then all of the problems that they are having with their shoes. And this information is so important to continue on your journey because we have to look at the history of what's what's been happening. And we can figure out a pattern from all of the issues that you've had in the past and with your corrections as well as with the pointe shoes and the problems that you're running into. If you don't have that history, it's almost as if we're starting scratch every single time.
00:37:53
Speaker
So like we will never be able to move forward if we don't know what your past was like, unless I'm your pointe shoe fitter and I have records of every single shoe that you've ever had. But most people I'm fitting for the first time and they're only coming to me because I'm their last resort. And I really can't do much if I don't know what you've been through.
00:38:12
Speaker
So keeping record is so important and it's something that a lot of dancers do not do, but it's so important. Yeah, that's genius. I hadn't thought of keeping a record in that context specifically, like with the shoe and the corrections, but it makes so much sense when you say that, like, light bulb moment. But yeah, I think that would be an amazing, yeah, amazing tactic for dancers.
00:38:32
Speaker
Yes, exactly. This has been so interesting and so educational. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you and your work or visit your social media, where can we find you? I think the most direct contact you can have with me personally is probably my Instagram. It's at josephinewiley. You can always message us on The Point Shop as well. We're pretty quick to answer. You can email us at info at thepointshop.com or you can check out our website at thepointshop.com. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. This was amazing.
00:39:02
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
00:39:07
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:39:20
Speaker
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00:39:33
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.