Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
93. What Dancers Can Learn from the 2026 Winter Olympics
102 Plays1 day ago
In this episode, I’m joined by sports psychologist Dr. Chelsea Pierotti and personal trainer and coach Wendy Reinert to explore powerful mental performance lessons from the Winter Olympics. From autonomy and burnout to confidence, resilience, and handling mistakes, we break down what elite athletes can teach dancers about performing under pressure.
Key Points in this Episode
- The importance of autonomy and motivation in long-term performance
- Why dancers need a support system or “village”
- How to develop healthy confidence without arrogance
- The role of failure and resilience in elite performance
- Practical self-talk strategies dancers can use in training and performance
Connect with Dr. Chelsea:
HER WEBSITE: chelseapierotti.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/dr.chelsea.pierotti
PODCAST: chelseapierotti.com/podcast/
Connect with Wendy:
HER WEBSITE: Wendyreinert.com
ON BEING A DANCER: Beingadancer.com
INSTAGRAM: https://instagram.com/onbeingadancer
Related Episodes:
07. Becoming a Mentally Tough Dancer with Dr. Chelsea Pierotti
23. A Holistic Approach to Strength Training with Wendy Reinert
Links and Resources:
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Because we're human, right? Every single one of us is human. Those athletes, they're not actually superheroes, though it does seem like it sometimes. They are also human. And that's just the way our brain works, right? Is it wants to talk us off of the ledge. It wants to keep us safe. It wants to tell us all the scary things to keep us safe. And so, yeah, you have to constantly work on it.
Introduction to Caitlin Sloan and the Brand New Ballerina Podcast
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer.
00:00:47
Speaker
Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast.
Olympic Inspiration and Dancer Parallels
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am super excited about today's episode, chatting about something that I know all dancers can learn a lot from, the Winter Olympics.
00:01:12
Speaker
I am always so inspired every four years when the Winter Olympics comes around and I get the opportunity to watch athletes perform me at the absolute highest level of their sports.
00:01:23
Speaker
What always stands out to me is not just the physical skill required to compete at the Olympics, but also the mental skills required to compete at such a high level. A lot of what Olympic athletes experience is very similar to what dancers go through.
00:01:38
Speaker
the pressure to perform, expectations from others, the fear of making a mistake, and of course, the joy of doing something that you love and seeing all of your hard work pay off.
00:01:50
Speaker
So today we're going to look at some of the most powerful moments from the 2026 Winter Olympics.
Expert Guests: Dr. Chelsea Perotti and Wendy Reinert
00:01:55
Speaker
And to help break all of this down with me, I'm joined by two amazing guests. I have Dr. Chelsea Perotti,
00:02:02
Speaker
who is a sports psychologist and high-performance coach for dancers and dance educators, as well as Wendy Reinert, who is a personal trainer and life coach who works with dancers and athletes to build strength, resilience, and sustainable training habits. I have had the honor of interviewing both of these incredible women for the pod in the past, and I am so excited to have them back today to talk all things Olympics.
00:02:26
Speaker
Thank you for joining me, Chelsea and Wendy. I'm so excited to have you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Same. Thank you. I agree that this is such a fun topic to talk about and be able to take the Olympics and what we can learn from it.
Alyssa Liu's Olympic Journey
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. And of course, I want to start with Alyssa Liu. She just really stole the show, I think, for a lot of dancers and audience members. Her story really spoke to me because of...
00:02:47
Speaker
All of this background of like having trained so intensively as a young girl, which a lot of dancers can relate to retiring at 16 years old because she just completely lost the joy and returning back to the Olympics on her own terms, winning golds and really finding that joy again.
00:03:05
Speaker
i would love to hear from both of you. How important do you think that autonomy is for long term performance and happiness in a dance career? It's so important. I feel like it's the number one thing that you need. It's the message behind what I do and what I've done for dancers for a long time now is you have to be a human first.
00:03:27
Speaker
And you have to know who you are underneath the dancing in order to thrive as a dancer. And I think Alyssa Liu has kind of hit the nail on the head here. i have been a figure skating dork for as long as I can remember since I was a child. And I remember following Alyssa's story back when she first came onto the scene at 13 and she like just skyrocketed. And so to see the difference in her now versus the beginning of her career is just remarkable. And it really is her own confidence in who she is and her own skills and her own voice that has made all the difference. Oh, absolutely. And we know, I put my nerdy science hat on for a second. There are three key
Autonomy and Happiness in Dance Careers
00:04:08
Speaker
sources of motivation. And one of them is being autonomous and having your own sense of what do I want and how do I do this my way? And most people who train intensely at a young age, which I would include a lot of dancers, we lose autonomy. Everybody else is telling you what to do all the time. And that's why we see so much burnout as a teenager. Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker
Because you have no autonomy. Because everyone else gets to make all of the decisions. And what I loved about Alyssa's story is once she fully stepped back and just essentially took her own autonomy and said, fine, I'm going to do this my way.
00:04:42
Speaker
In the grand scheme of themes, it wasn't that long until she felt the natural desire to want to come back. And the autonomy was the reason, was being able to say, i can do this my way. And then all of a sudden, she's motivated again. It really wasn't that long. But I think a lot of dancers and parents feel like if you walk away now at the peak at 14, it's over. And I think she was such great evidence of like, no, she needed to walk away to come back more true to who she is. And then when you see the motivation, to me, it completely changed her skating, too. And I'm sure you both saw it, like the way she performed was such genuine joy and love. And that was so powerful to watch. It was like tearing up, right? When you watch somebody who completely loves what they do. And that wouldn't happen without the autonomy. It's such a huge part of why she was able to be so successful.
00:05:28
Speaker
And I'll admit that I didn't know anything about Alyssa Liu until the Olympics, but I was just sitting down to watch the short program and she did her routine. And I was like, oh, she's going to win. She's the winner. And my husband was like, no, I think she's like fifth or sixth place right now. Like she's a little bit lower down. I was like, okay, well, It was just like so clear to me, like watching her, that she just had it. But I am curious what your thoughts are on the autonomy piece in dance because she spoke about how she really took ownership over her music, her choreography, her costumes, her training plan, all of these things. She decided, I'm going to choose when I train, what I wear, what I eat, what I listen to.
00:06:07
Speaker
But in a dance company, you don't always get those choices. So what ways would you say dancers can find that autonomy even if you have to do the Nutcracker for the 30th time and you don't get to choose your costume or a part you are or all of that kind of thing. That's where knowing yourself comes into place, right? When you're in a dance company, you're a part of a community and you have to kind of be a part of the team. It is a team sport. And also you have to honor who you are. And I think that...
00:06:37
Speaker
When you're in a season like Nutcracker, it becomes a little bit more challenging because your schedule is handed to you, your life is handed to you, and you just have to keep showing up. And so it's outside of that, that you have to find the things that fuel you. and it may not be possible in a super, super, super busy season. I think there's little things that you can do. Certainly your nutrition is number one importance and your sleep and things like that, those general taking care of yourself moments.
00:07:06
Speaker
But beyond the busy season, you have to spend time figuring out who you are outside of the dance studio. And then when you're in the busy parts, then you can recall that. And you can remember like, oh, right, that museum that I went to that one time when you're like doing snow for the thousandth time, you can think about those paintings that you saw that inspired you, right So you can recall it and bring it in when you're busy, but it has to be set up outside of that.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, I so agree. My favorite phrase that I'm probably shared when I was here before, that sense of control the controllables, what is in your control, and put your focus there. And so in seasons like Nutcracker, when you are in a company and you do not have full autonomy because you're part of a team, there's a lot of things not in your control. And when we try to, you know, grip tight and hold on to things that we can't control and we get mad over those things, that doesn't help us with our sense of motivation, our love for dance. That's what's going to lead to this burnout.
00:08:07
Speaker
But being able to separate, no, I can't control the role I have, my training schedule, you know who I'm partnering with, like that was all assigned. Great. What can I control? And that's exactly what Wendy was saying. What can I control is all the stuff outside, how I care for myself, what I do in my free time that helps support who I am and what I love if this is not exactly it right now. And being able to hold on to what you control and let go of the rest. And so there's always a space for that autonomy, even in really highly controlled environments. And for Alyssa, she had autonomy as an individual athlete to be able to do more.
00:08:42
Speaker
And I do think her elite level leads more to that, right? The more elite you are in dance, the more autonomy you have. And so that same idea applies. But when you are even as an elite dancer, but maybe not at the level where you are able to make so many choices, you have opportunities still within your own daily schedule and within how you spend your time and how you support yourself that you can ensure is still a part of your training. I also feel like she talked a lot about just focusing on the performance. Like I'm just here...
00:09:09
Speaker
to skate. I'm happy to be here. I just want to share what I can do. She really honed in on not being focused on winning a medal or the competition aspect. just wanted to skate.
00:09:19
Speaker
How do you feel like that mindset shift affects outcomes? Yeah, it's hard when you feel like the outcome matters so much, even when we're not in a competitive environment, just in a classroom setting, right? Dancers get really upset and really down on themselves if they have a bad day. fall out of one pirouette and suddenly the whole class is terrible. You know, and it's easy to let that spiral you downward. And I think in watching Alyssa's interviews before the Olympics and leading up to it, i believed her when she said, i really don't care if I fall.
00:09:53
Speaker
If I fall, that's fine. If I win, that's fine. Like I really and truly believed her when she said she wasn't there for the outcome. And I think a lot of times I hear dancers say that, oh, I don't care how I do, but actually you can tell, no, they they really do care.
00:10:11
Speaker
There's something that goes so deep with her and the trust and the confidence in who she is. That is what I saw as the difference. And even watching some of the other elite skaters with the women's competition, i could see that they really wanted it. You just start to see the difference in how they're behaving, how they're stepping onto the ice, their energy, the way they're looking at other people. And there was a really big difference. And I just think that the deep,
00:10:40
Speaker
deep, deep sense of, no, I really don't care. I'm really just here. And she can say that because she knows her skills. She put in the training, she knows what she can do on the rehearsal ice.
00:10:53
Speaker
And so she just trusts, well, that's what I'll do now. Yeah, I think a lot of dancers feel like if they say, oh, I don't care if I fall, that that will translate to, oh, I don't care about ballet. I don't care about my art.
00:11:05
Speaker
And there's such a huge difference between still wanting to be excellent in what you do and still putting in the work and making it obsessive. Right. Well, and there's the difference too with that. Again, her natural and intrinsic just love. She was skating because she loves it. And we can tell dancers, you're going to perform your best if you're just there because you love the movement and it feels like that's focus will help you, which is true. But for most elite athletes, including dancers, it's both and. Like you can care about the outcome and truly love what you're doing. And I think that's the control the controllables part.
00:11:42
Speaker
for an outcome is I can control, as Wendy was saying, my training, I can control how much I've been in rehearsal. I can control how I prepared that day, everything about setting yourself up for success, but you can't control a judge's opinion or an audience member's opinion. And so that you have to let go of and being able to have this sense of I care about my training. This means a lot to me. I'm going to be drilled in and focused, can coexist with, but I'm okay with not having a specific outcome. like Both can be true. And I think that's the magic for a lot of dancers is to your point, Kaylin, it's not, oh, I don't care now. It's like, no, I care very much, but I care very much about what I can control and how I show up. And if I show up and give my absolute best, then I can let go of what somebody else thinks. There's that power of being able to let go of
00:12:30
Speaker
whether it's a director, a parent, or a random audience member, that it's not about how they receive it, that you've put your best out there, and then you can let go of the rest. Yeah.
Support Systems for Mental Health and Success
00:12:39
Speaker
Okay, shifting into another Olympic athlete, I want to talk about Alana Myers-Taylor and the power of having a support system and what that means to you as a human being and as an athlete.
00:12:52
Speaker
And we saw after winning the gold medal, the first person she hugged was her nanny. And we are all moms. I think we could really relate to that. yes yeah We're working moms. We know we would not be able to do anything we do without our support. She really talked openly about how many people helped her reach that moment and how important it is to have a village. And i just spoke with a dancer even today who reached out to me for some support and said, oh, I just feel like I should have able to my own.
00:13:17
Speaker
But I've hit a wall and I need help. And there's this belief as dancers that we have to do it on our own. And if we don't, if we ask for help, we're not good enough. So can you talk about why that is so detrimental to us in our journey as dancers and the importance of having that village?
00:13:33
Speaker
That village is everything. We know so much about the importance of a support system in regards to mental health, in regards to achieving challenges and dealing with things that are really hard. It's so wonderful to see someone at such an elite level of success openly acknowledge her village and be able to talk about what it took to get her there. Because when you say do it on your own, yes, you're the one waking up for training. You're the one who has to take care of your body and recover. You're the one who has to meal plan and prep stuff. Like, yes, you're the one doing the work, but also you have to have the village behind you for those hard days.
00:14:09
Speaker
And that's where people think like, oh, I have to do this alone. You don't have to do all the hard stuff alone. You know having someone to talk to, having People who understand maybe that's a fellow dancer who knows that this training schedule is so insane or my shoe just doesn't fit quite right today and everything feels off. Like people who get it. And then also your support system at home.
00:14:28
Speaker
And think like I said, as a working mom, I know my village is the only reason I get to do all the wonderful things that I love. And then to me, I show up as a better mother because I have the time and the space when I'm with them to just be mom and let go of everything else. And that's what that interview and what it looked like with her was that sense of, I can be both. I can be a wonderful mother and an elite athlete, but only if I have the support system to do it. I love that message. And it's so important for our mental health. And I think too, I see a lot with dancers, especially in the sort of newer to the company world when you're maybe not getting paid as much and everybody's saying, well, you have to cross train and you have to eat right and you have to do it this way and you have to take care of yourself and you have to do all this stuff.
00:15:11
Speaker
And they're like, go do it. Go cross train. Go do all the things that you're supposed to do. And they're left to think that they have to figure it out on their own. And maybe they don't have the resources to get help or whatever. and maybe the resources just aren't there. And so it does it can start to feel like you are in it by yourself. You have to find that desire to seek it out in a way that you can do it, whether it financially having enough time to do it. Right. so Yes, the village is so, so, so important. And also we need to keep telling our dancers that here is the village, we are here for you. And there are ways to take advantage of resources out there, even if the people you are around immediately aren't offering it to you. So I think that's a part of the challenge is you don't always know where it's coming from and you don't always know where to find it. And there's also that old feeling that if you admit to needing help, you're going to be perceived as weak and you know no one wants to be seen as weak. But as soon as you start talking about it, you realize that, oh, right, everybody feels this way. And every time I teach one of my workshops where I'm offering the space for dancers to talk about their challenges,
00:16:24
Speaker
I kind of make them speak to each other about what works for you, what works for you, who has ideas that you can share with your classmates. They're able to start looking at each other in a different way and realize like,
00:16:36
Speaker
oh No, I'm not alone. i really can do this with all of you helping. And we need that. Oh, I like that point too, that your village can be outside of dance, at home, in your care, in your best friend who knows nothing about dance, and your village can be other dancers. And they serve different roles and they're both...
00:16:54
Speaker
valuable and just connecting to another dancer who understands the struggle, like that place of connection is support and is that sense of, I get it. This is hard. What works for you? What works for me? This always helps me. Do you want to come with me today? Or that sort of resource is we're in a time of information overload.
00:17:11
Speaker
If you want to go look for resources, there's so many options, including free and accessible things, but it still feels like I don't know what to do. There's way too much. And shrinking your information to your trusted village can be a great place to start with what does this look like for me and how do I figure it out? Yeah, and if you look at the roster of people who are on an Olympic athletes team, I mean, it's going to be vast. Multiple coaches, personal trainer, physical therapist, mental health therapist.
00:17:40
Speaker
I mean, you name it, they have someone on their team who's helping them do it because they want to achieve this incredible feat. And as dancers, we don't always think of ourselves as athletes in that same sense.
Balancing Finances and Support Networks
00:17:51
Speaker
But we are. And if you want to get to that place, you have to get those people on your team. But I do agree with what you said too, Wendy, about the financial aspect of it because I just personally started working with a personal trainer for the first time in my life.
00:18:03
Speaker
It's life-changing and I never could have afforded it When I was dancing. And I hate that because i mean, I still think I'm worth it now to do it for myself now, even though I'm not dancing professionally. But how great would that have been at the time? I think if I had known about it, I still couldn't afford it. But I didn't even know that that was something I should pursue. no one I knew was doing that. Everyone I knew who was working out was going and walking on the treadmill for hours a day. You know, nobody said to me like, hey, you should work with this personal trainer or like this is a person that I trust because that's another thing too is someone that I trust and my care team recommended this other person and I trust them now. And so finding those people that you want to work with who you're willing to invest your time and resources in who are going to invest back into you can be really, really hard. So I do think having people that you could ask, hey, do you work with anyone in this area? Do you recommend them?
00:18:51
Speaker
Access is always going to be a challenge, right? And we can access different levels at different times in our lives. And I think being able to just acknowledge that you can have a village of support that might be actual resources of paying a professional, like a sports psychologist and a physical trainer and all of that support. And your village can also be your best friend that you sit with and just talk to and have someone in every spectrum in between, and they all serve a different role. And so even if you are in a phase of life as a dancer, where you have those limited financial resources, knowing that your village doesn't have to be expensive paid professionals. And gosh, I wish that. And similarly, like if I had a mental health, if I had a sports psychologist, a things maybe would have been real different in my professional career, didn't know it was a thing int until later. And now I love being able to give that back. But
00:19:41
Speaker
Again, that's a professional resource that you're not always going to have access to. So knowing that your village can also be your small village, your people who you trust, like you said, your care team of people I trust doesn't have to be expensive professionals. And I wish there was more, right? but Don't we all wish we could just like be able to have surround every dance company with all of these amazing support people someday? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, it is an investment and it is worth it. Like I would say, like, if it's possible, I do think it's a very worthy investment to make. But like you said, there's a huge spectrum of what a village can look like. And I guess at the end of the day, just to drive home that point again, that asking for help does not make you weak.
00:20:20
Speaker
It's probably the strongest thing you can do. And if you want to get to the next place, we're all going to be stronger together. That's how you're going to achieve the level of success that you really want to as a dancer. If you're a dancer who's feeling lost, overwhelmed, or even just unsure about your next career step, I am here for you. As a former professional ballet dancer turned dance career mentor, I help dancers get clear on what they really want out of their careers and build a real, actionable strategy to get them there.
00:20:49
Speaker
Whether you need help setting goals, planning for auditions, navigating mindset blocks, or or just having someone in your corner who gets what you're going through and can hold you accountable, mentorship can make all the difference.
00:21:04
Speaker
If you're curious about whether working with a dance career mentor is the right fit for you, i offer a complimentary career consultation so we can talk through your unique goals and challenges.
00:21:14
Speaker
Just head to the show notes to schedule your consultation and let's fill the dance career you've been dreaming about. Moving on to another athlete that I really loved watching, especially her interviews, was Eileen Gu. And she gave a really, really highly shared interview. while a reporter asked her if she felt like she had lost medals. And she came back and said, are you kidding me?
Eileen Gu on Self-Confidence and Achievements
00:21:38
Speaker
at the Olympics. How could even be asking me that? It was just so interesting to hear her talk about her achievements and about what she's good at so confidently. I think a lot of dancers, we downplay. We don't want to seem cocky. We don't want to seem arrogant to the point that we don't even confidently talk about what we do or even believe that what we do is amazing. When the fact that you are a dancer is already so incredible.
00:22:02
Speaker
i mean, when I was dancing professionally, people learn that I was a professional dancer, they'd be like, oh, do you live in New York? You know, I'd be like, i live in Missouri. And well, when are you going to go to New York? That's just not for me.
00:22:14
Speaker
The fact that I even made it a professional dancer, period, is a huge deal. But there's always going to be someone out there who thinks that because you are doing it this way and not the way that they perceive to be the best way, that it's not good enough. So how can we encourage dancers to, I guess, embrace self-promotion and embrace that confident aspect so that they can feel like what they do matters.
00:22:37
Speaker
I think we, as a whole in the industry, always just focus on our mistakes. That's how we're trained. That's how we operate in class. All the feedback is what to fix and this is wrong and tweak this. And as a whole, as an industry, rarely talk about what went well. Like said, one pirouette that you fell out of in class and the whole class was bad. And it's that mindset that goes all the way to this professional career that feels less than rather than celebrating what it was. And so I think it's in the micro mindsets of how we train every day that leads to the bigger issue. And so being able to start small And at the end of a class, even especially when you're frustrated, doing the self-reflection of like, what was good today?
00:23:19
Speaker
And maybe what was good today is I was in a bad mood and didn't feel like showing up and I came. And like, that was good. And then maybe today there was something good. Maybe it wasn't a compliment that ever came to you. You got no positive feedback from anybody else, but you can notice, no, I knew I had to make that correction and I did it and I'm proud of what happened. So we build our own confidence by trying hard things, noticing what's going well while also taking the feedback about how to be better. And I think we can start training that at the little micro level and then build it to a place where we can have more of that self-promotion of acknowledging all of the really good things we've done.
00:23:56
Speaker
That is awkward for a lot of people. It feels very strange, but you can do it from this place of genuine confidence. That's why I liked her interview too about why are we talking about the losses? This is amazing things that I've done and have won. So why have the focus on the things that didn't go well? Let's focus on the good. And that takes a definite shift, but it's the only way we're going to see longer careers, longer, you know, connection to this art that we love so much, because if we're only focused on all the mistakes, which is how we're going to be in the room every day, we're not going to make it very far. Right. So being able to focus on the good.
00:24:30
Speaker
I think too, just to add on to that, is i absolutely agree with all of that, that we're constantly fixing everything. But then it's also coming from just the way we're expected to behave as dancers, particularly for young ballerinas. You're taught to stay silent. You're taught to be humble. And, you know, not speak up for yourself and just like go along with the crowd and don't ruffle any feathers and like be demure and be calm and pretty and all of that stuff. And not just in ballet, but girls versus boys, right? We're all parents. I'm sure we're all fighting that with our children right now too. And and the way...
00:25:06
Speaker
We're treated growing up how we're expected to behave growing up and that you're not supposed to be confident. You're supposed to be humble. Right. And so being able to teach our dancers that that confidence is so important. You have to believe in yourself and you have to unapologetically know who you are and be able to say your strengths as much as you are able to say what you need to work on, just as you were saying. I just think it's so much deeper than just dancing at this stage too. In general, finding that confidence, self-deprecating humor is also a thing. and And so the way we talk about ourselves negatively can be funny and that kind of stuff too. And so just breaking out of that and not being afraid to say, hey, listen, I'm really good at this thing.
00:25:55
Speaker
And I'm unapologetic about that.
00:25:59
Speaker
Is there something so wrong with that? like i want every single dancer I work with to be able to say that And not second guess it and not apologize for it. Yeah. And you can have that attitude without being rude. And I think that's where people are like, oh, if I'm confident, I can't be humble. I'm like, no, you can be both.
00:26:18
Speaker
That's okay. You can know who you are and unapologetically claim that and also not be rude to other dancers, not talk anybody else down. Like your confidence doesn't have to hurt the person next to them. That's when I think people get upset by the boasting is when it is coming from a place of let me tear down everybody else so I feel better. But when it is just about, I've done the work, I'm proud of the work, I know i can do this.
00:26:41
Speaker
And also, I believe you can do this. And i'm proud you should be proud of what you're doing. And like you can all build that confidence up. It doesn't have to come at other people's expense. I think that's the complete difference where you can be humble and encouraging of others and have such a solid sense of self and your own confidence. You can have both.
00:26:58
Speaker
And I think that's the difference between confidence and cockiness, right? Oh, yeah. It's the confidence, that self-assuredness that I know who I am, the cockiness that says, I want to show you how good I am. It's that that difference too. And I think that's where people start to get confused is that they think that by being confident, that means they're being cocky. And that's just not the case, right? It's as you're saying how you're treating the other people in the room, how you're supporting everyone else along with your own confidence versus I must prove myself. Right.
00:27:32
Speaker
And I think that goes back to what we were talking about watching Alyssa skate. She clearly had confidence in her abilities, but she didn't skate with a sense of superiority. She skated with a sense of love and let me show you why I love this. And that was so beautiful as opposed to the cockiness of like, I'm so good. Watch me. yeah We talked to dancers about like, that's the character you have on stage or you have to portray that and make people see you and stand out. But you can stand out in a way that is from this genuine place of I love this. And that draws people in rather than the forceful watch me at everybody else's expense. Yeah. She was such a good example of how to do both. And I feel like the most cured dancers, the ones who really know what they have to offer, that's what they do. It's the ones who maybe do feel insecure in their abilities and not so sure if they really do have what it takes or the ones who feel like they have to like prove something and almost –
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah. Overdo it to make sure people know that they're good instead of, I don't have to say it. I'm going to show you that I'm good. And, you know, in Eileen Gu's case, she did have to say it because she had to make a point there. But yes and she should she did it in a way that was it was so empowering as a woman to see that interview because i don't think that many people would have approached it that way.
00:28:46
Speaker
hmm. No. And it was just like, wow, she just said that. And I think just also like the idea of defining success in her own terms. Like, I think I succeeded. i think this was really good. and I really don't care what anyone else thinks about that because I know I did a good job. And it's so funny because you know you're you're watching the Olympics as I'm sitting on my couch and I'm like, oh, they really should have hit that. you know what I couldn't do that. But it's something about it. you know When you're watching, it makes you think you have some kind of idea of how to do it or how people should perform. And it's like, can you even imagine?
00:29:22
Speaker
I can't even stand up on ice skates. I have fall down. Yeah, and yeah exactly. I go to my kids hockey practice and like for 45 minutes, it's just 56 year olds falling down the whole time. It's so, so hard. And what we do is so, so hard for his dancers. And I think just owning the fact that like that you could even do dance at all is incredible.
00:29:45
Speaker
It's so, so incredible. What we do is so, so hard. It takes so many years to be able to do that. yeah If you just break it down to that basic level of how amazing it really is to even be doing this at all, I hope that can give you some confidence.
00:29:59
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, if I could add to that real quick, Caitlin, I think as dancers and athletes in general, as we get better and better, we stop noticing stuff we're good at. We're just, again, like I am trying to learn this new skill and it's frustrating me and I can't get it. And now I'm annoyed that I don't acknowledge how much better I've gotten in the last year.
00:30:17
Speaker
Right. And being able to pause and look back and like, okay, yes, this current new choreography, this current new skill is stressful, is hard. Right. but I need to notice how much I've improved in the last six months, in the last week, in the last year. And intentionally looking back can be so powerful because we do forget. This is hard and you are good and you have grown so much. And we're in an age of there's so much film out there. Like go find old film of yourself.
00:30:45
Speaker
I don't have a lot of old film with myself. That's a whole other problem. I have nothing to show my now nine-year-old daughter who wants to know what it was like when I was dancing. and like literally have nothing. I don't know. But for most dancers now, there is film and evidence and being able to look back and like, wow, that was six months ago or wow, that was two years ago. Like I really have grown, especially as we get more elite. It's not necessarily that you learned a new skill. It's that you just learned.
00:31:09
Speaker
perfected and refined what you could already do. And it's like the aesthetics of it are different and the execution is better, but we don't have this milestone of like, look at this cool new thing or I added another pirouette. It's like, no, it just aesthetically looks better because of you know your strength and your artistry and your performance. So looking back to help that recognition of what you've earned. I have a rule for my dancers that I work with that You have to yes and yourself, you know, that actor's improv rule, right? Because we're always trying to ah achieve and improve and get better.
00:31:42
Speaker
and to me, I don't really care what you're striving for. Call it perfection, call it excellence, call it greatness, call it elite, whatever. But what matters to me is why are you striving for it? Are you striving because right now today you don't think you're good enough and you think that if you get better, you will feel good enough, right?
00:32:02
Speaker
We know that's not going to work. But if you are striving because today, right now, yes, I am good today. Yes, I appreciate, I acknowledge all of these beautiful things that I am capable of right now. Yes, all of this is great about me and I can still improve. I really encourage them to do that and like figure out what is the impetus for you wanting to strive.
00:32:29
Speaker
because i am good enough today. And also i love to strive. I love to achieve. I love to push the boundaries of what I'm capable of. That feels good. Not because I don't think I'm good enough, but because i just want more. That's what Alyssa said in one of her interviews too, that she loved the struggle of practice. Like that was fun. And i was like, that is such a great mindset, that sense of, yes, I am good. And also I'm going to struggle today to get better. That doesn't mean I'm not good now. It just means I enjoy the struggle because I know what it could be and such a cool frame. Yes, and. I agree.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yes. I love that. And I was just thinking one other tip I would share that has working for me lately is that I would watch so many videos of myself when I was dancing professionally and be like, oh this is terrible. I can't share this. I hope no one ever sees this. And now I watch them I'm like, oh my gosh, I was good. And I feel like if you could watch videos or – Look at yourself through the eyes of maybe like a much older you or a much younger you that might help you realize where you are right now. Because five-year-old you would be amazed that you can do all these things. An 80-year-old you is going to be like, wow, I can just be able to do that. That's incredible. I get it. And the time that you're...
00:33:45
Speaker
doing it, you know, we're hard on ourselves and we want to keep getting better and all those things. But like you said, the yes and you can appreciate where you are and you can keep working. And both things can be true. yeah Let's talk about Michaela Schifrin.
Michaela Schifrin on Mental Health and Public Failure
00:34:00
Speaker
So she had a really huge comeback in this Olympics, which was so, so cool to watch. And, you know, she was heavily favored in 2022, did it medal, had a traumatic crash a few years ago, And she really has spoken openly about mental health and how hard it is to fail on such a public stage. And I would just love to hear your thoughts on why is it so powerful when we hear the athletes normalize that it's okay to not be okay?
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah. I was so thankful that she posted one particular reel when she was packing up to go home. So she'd already won. She was packing up to go home. And she pointed the camera to her bathroom mirror and it had self-talk, positive affirmation, note cards all over her mirror. And I think people look to her as like, you are one of the best athletes, if not the best.
00:34:53
Speaker
You shouldn't need to talk yourself up. I'm sure you're just confident. And for her to normalize, I doubt myself. I have to have these affirmations and remind myself of who I am and what I'm capable of. And especially at this huge event when I had a failure experience before,
00:35:09
Speaker
that I need this kind of affirmation. So I was so thankful for someone of her elite status to say, i also doubt myself and I have a tool to help through that and was able to rely on those affirmations and see them every morning. And then I had them in my head at the top of the mountain and that when you are elite, like the dancer you look up to the most, doesn't mean they don't have these challenges, doesn't mean they never feel that way. And the best athletes still feel the sense of loss or the disappointment and the negative self-talk. It will always be there. What's different in an elite athlete or an elite dancer is the ability to
00:35:46
Speaker
recognize, oh, there's those thoughts that aren't helpful. This is what I need to do instead, and to be able to turn that around. So I was so grateful for her example of that. And I think that's what dancers, I hope, can take from Michaela Schifrin, that you may be one of the most talented dancer and pick the dancer you look up to the most. They're not immune to these kinds of negative self-talk thoughts and these challenges. It's just about learning how to handle them so that you can support yourself through it.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think having the skills and the coping tools to address all of that, because we're human, right? Every single one of us is human. Those athletes, they're not actually superheroes, though it does seem like it sometimes. They are also human. And that's just the way our brain works, right? is It wants to talk us off of the ledge. It wants to keep us safe. It wants to tell us all the scary things to keep us safe. And so, yeah, you have to constantly work on it.
00:36:38
Speaker
And what I will say and in what I see in myself and and the work that I do with dancers, the same thing doesn't work for everybody. Everybody thinks that, oh, well, if I just, okay, so I'm going to go home and put affirmations on my mirror and that'll work for me. It might, it also might not.
00:36:54
Speaker
It might not be that simple. There might be another way that you have to get there. And so I think that's one of the detriments of as you were saying, the information overload, right? There's so many ways to do it. And like you see on Instagram or TikTok, these little reels, like try this thing, this will work for you. But that's no replacement for the actual deep self work that you have to do to figure out what is it that my brain needs? yeah What do I respond to?
00:37:24
Speaker
How do I address my own brand of negative self talk? Is it affirmations on a mirror? Maybe. is it conversation in my own head constantly?
00:37:34
Speaker
Maybe. Is it giving a voice or a character to these negative voices that I have? Maybe. There's so many different tools. It's hard. It takes some trial and error to figure out what's going to work for you in different settings. But I think that's a part of it too. And I also love that these athletes are speaking out about what they do. Well, that's such a good point because it's her approach worked because she'd done the internal work.
00:37:59
Speaker
So it wasn't just when you're in the depths of it that you put a affirmation on your mirror and it's magically better. She had done the work to genuinely believe the affirmation. And that's what makes it so powerful. I so appreciate that, that you have to think about, I have to do the work to understand that. Because when I talk to a lot of dancers now, And I ask them to have an affirmation and a lot of them will say something. I'm like, do you believe that? and they're like no, it's crap. That's not real. It's like, so if you don't believe the affirmation, we got to back up. We got to figure out where that's coming from, why it's like that and use different kinds of self-talk. Self-talk is not always positive. There's three kinds. You can do different sorts of self-talk and knowing again, what works for you, what helps me in this moment, what do I need? It's not going to just be a one size fits all. So yeah, I appreciate that point.
00:38:44
Speaker
Chelsea, can you share those three different types of self-talk? Oh, sure. There's the positive one that people are familiar with. That's all over social media. That again, if you have the actual belief and you can read that self-affirmation and say, yes, that's real. I'm reminding myself that works great.
00:39:00
Speaker
For a lot of, especially teens and tween dancers, they feel fake. They're like, that's not real. I don't believe that. So you turn to the other two. One is motivational or emotional. So it's more about getting your body in the right state. So maybe it's amping yourself up because you have to go do a really hard section of the ballet and you have to like amp yourself up and I'm ready and I've got this and I'm strong and I'm powerful. and Let's go. Or you have to do something really graceful and quiet and you have to use thoughts to put yourself in that space and what you're supposed to do and perform. So more like a emotion motivation that's just about putting you in the right place to execute. The other one is instructional where you're your own coach about the physical skill. And that's the one that I think helps a lot of strong dancers. So you're old enough that you can kind of coach yourself like, oh, I fell out of that because I didn't use the left side of my back. I have to use my back. And when I do that, I'll hit this. And so I'm going to go again and I'm going to think about what muscles to use and how to execute.
00:40:01
Speaker
And the self-talk on the execution helps because then you're blocking out the negative stuff. That's the point is getting rid of the negative script and putting in something else. So if you don't believe the positive script, you can put in the motivational emotional piece or the instruction on like what muscle, what technique do I need to do and focus there because that goes back to what's in your control and that will build to the point of believing the positive stuff. But all three are good options.
00:40:27
Speaker
That makes sense. And I definitely gravitate toward that last one, but never with the realization that that's what I was doing. Yep. It's so powerful to be able to do that. And you have to be a certain level of dancer for that to work. Obviously, you have to have a level of understanding of your technique to do that. But most dancers at the teen tween age who don't believe the positive stuff are at a level where they can use the instructional. So it's a good kind of interjection and Sometimes you can do that and then add the positive to or have that sense of I'm capable, I'm strong, I'm going to pure wet again and i'm going to close my ribs and focus on the spot. And like when you add them together, it can start to build from there too.
00:41:04
Speaker
I like that. Okay, last athlete that I want to us to talk about today is Elia Malanin.
Elia Malanin on Training for the Unexpected
00:41:11
Speaker
That was brutal to watch, but a really good lesson. And I think seeing him after was really inspiring too. But he hadn't lost a competition since 2023.
00:41:22
Speaker
Highly, highly favored. And we just saw him kind of get inside of his head during his performance. And when something went wrong, he didn't really know what to do. He didn't know how to cope with it because he wasn't used to things going wrong. What happens when an athlete has never really experienced as much failure as maybe another one? And what happens in the brain when you haven't really practiced that?
00:41:47
Speaker
What happens is you panic. if you have no idea yeah right And I think your instinct is in my impression of what exactly what happened. And I see it with dancers too. I was working with a team who same level of never loses the best of the best. And they were at their largest championship and they had a lift at the beginning of their routine that somebody slipped on a costume and the lift didn't go up.
00:42:11
Speaker
the whole rest of the routine fell apart. And it's because the lift had never not gone up for months and months and months. And so they hadn't practiced, if the lift doesn't happen, how do we recover? And if you don't practice the recovery, then the negative self-talk spiral happens. I think that's what he was talking about so bravely afterwards. I can only imagine how challenging those interviews were. But being able to say, like I didn't know what to do. i have never not hit that. I've never not had this go perfectly. And even the most elite, we have to train what happens when you make a mistake. And sometimes you can interject that with dancers. Little things of like, oh, the music cut out. And as the director, I can just be like, oops, it's off. And like what do you do? How do you panic? What happens? I've done little things of asking one dancer, who's out on the floor, like one of my trusted dancers, like they have a prop or something. i'm like, just drop it this time.
00:43:06
Speaker
Just drop it. See what everybody else does. Like doing these little moments of let's practice when something unexpected happens. And if you don't practice that, it's almost completely impossible to regain that control again. So practicing any little mistake and the unexpected will happen. And if you train with the unexpected will happen, what do I do when the unexpected happens? And Unfortunately, he was so talented that he'd never had that experience before. But I would expect it changes his training now. And you can only imagine when someone of his talent is able to recover from a minor mistake, he's going to be completely unstoppable. Yeah. Yeah. He's another one I've been following his career since he started. and it's been so interesting to watch because you know a few years ago, he wanted to go to the last Olympics and He was too young and inexperienced, but he was already winning everything and already was this phenom. And I watched him through his whole career and I always watched them going, at some point someone's going to fall, right? And he just never did. And it was really remarkable to see how he reacted in the moment.
00:44:12
Speaker
And what I loved is seeing who he became immediately after He could have very easily fallen apart. I mean, I remember falling on stage as 15 year old and like I was a miserable, horrible person for days after.
00:44:29
Speaker
and he was just so gracious and like so beautifully and immediately in the middle of such a hard time in his own brain. I cannot imagine what he was thinking. But the person that he is really shined through. And that was the first first time that I saw him as a human and not just as the quad god. It's like, again, like he has the confidence and the ability to back up that nickname. I went into this Olympics like he's got in the bag. No one can even touch him. It is impossible.
00:45:06
Speaker
And then he fell and and did all those interviews. And I was like, yeah. And you're also an amazing human. And there's something so special about him. And like you said, I can't wait to see what happens next for him once he puts all of the pieces together. Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:22
Speaker
The humanity behind it, i agree. And you could see it of being able to detach everything. Okay, yes, this mistake was on the biggest stage and the thing I wanted the most, but that doesn't take away from who you are as a human.
00:45:35
Speaker
And the training that had led to that, the talent, all of that is still there. You are still you. You are still deserving of that name. And also... This was a hard lesson. And being able to put those together it is going to be completely unstoppable. So exciting to see that training because you get the sense, again, we're only watching a few public interviews. We don't know, but you get the sense that this is something you'll take to heart. I'm like, I just didn't know. And now I do. And I can learn from that. I think he even said in one to interview, this is going to change my training. Absolutely. And that's exactly my point. And every sports psychologist will tell you, you have to train for the unexpected. Again, usually you don't have to interject the unexpected because we naturally make mistakes.
00:46:15
Speaker
And he just was such an elite athlete that it never happened. But being able to intentionally interject things that just mess with you, like, oh, that was weird. Or what was that? And i think dancers, sometimes it happens more naturally where you train in one space and then you show up to a stage and you're like, you want me to dance where? What? What?
00:46:31
Speaker
Floor is terrible. It's not the right size. Something happens, again, with a costume piece or, you know, your hair falls. I was talking to a professional dancer that had a wig in her and routine and it was just like slipping more and more and more down her face. And like those sorts of things that...
00:46:46
Speaker
You have to train for something will go wrong. And we always just say like the dance must go on. Yes, but what do you do in your head when you have to keep dancing and your wig is falling off? And like, how do you mentally stay in character and be able to execute and handle those moments? So yeah, training for the unexpected is essential.
00:47:04
Speaker
Chelsea, this is a little bit off track, but this reminds me of this story with a wig. i had a friend I danced with, and we had these like short bob wigs we wore for a piece, and she put hers on the light in the dressing room to like keep its shape. The lights were off. The lights were off. Okay.
00:47:20
Speaker
But then someone came in and turned the lights on, and it melted the entire top of her wig off. And this was during intermission, and so the piece was first after intermission. There wass like five minutes to places. We just ended up giving her like a really crazy comb over and put like half the wig on one side so it covered her head. But it was like yu just such a wild experience. This was like so much adrenaline pumping through us because we're like, we have to solve this problem. we have to go on stage in five minutes. And then the piece is a very in sync, sharp movement piece where you you got to be all together. And we had to like tighten it back up again and yeah get on stage and do it. But...
00:47:55
Speaker
I mean, things like that happen and it can be stressful, but you can handle it, especially if you practice. Yeah, you have to practice that reset. And that is such a, that's hilarious, but I feel bad. But yes, that happens in dance, right? Where you have to practice the reset of something happened, you're on stage in five minutes, figure it out. And this is not a sit in my emotions processing time. I'm all for that, but this is not the moment. What needs to happen right now? And how do I release that, like physically shake it off, release it, take a big deep breath and focus on what I need to do in this very moment. But if you don't practice that, then you have the panic. But it's not just the person who had the wig issue too, because in your context, all of you are a part of this and everybody's adrenaline is going and everybody's now like, does this look okay? Or I have more adrenaline than I normally do. And do I need to calm back down? Or I'm going to be all jittery. Like, How do I regulate that in the moment? You have to practice it. Sometimes you learn it in the moment on stage and that's the practice. yeah
00:48:50
Speaker
Yes, it's exactly true. And I can't count the number of times that I have made a mistake on stage and had to regroup. And I guess there's something to be said for not being maybe the most elite athlete. But I had more practice doing that. There was many times I made mistakes that I had to recover from, yeah but I got really comfortable of doing that. We have quick changes or stuff like that. They're like, okay, you practice once in dress rehearsal.
00:49:14
Speaker
But that is one of the places that can throw you mentally more than anything else. And so it's not just about practicing the physical change of costume, but what happens when...
00:49:24
Speaker
All of a sudden you realize your shoes are on the wrong feet or all of a sudden you realize everything's done, but you forgot an underpeat and like now you have to redo it. Stuff happens and completely throws you before you get on stage and being able to know stuff's going to happen. How are you going to handle it in that moment? What's the backup plan? Yeah, so hard to practice. Similarly, I'm like, I got plenty of experience. Yeah. And that's so true with like quick changes because whenever you see a dancer who's freaking out, it's not going to go well for quick change. If you're calm, the dancers who are moving like almost slower and more calmly, the quick changes are always fine. But it's the ones who are like, ah, that that something happens or they forget a piece or they're like arm is through their foothold or something like that. And they're more likely to mess up on stage now because now you're entering the stage in that state physically, and mentally. Yeah, you have to practice that reset.
00:50:10
Speaker
I think too, especially in those moments within a dance company that involve the entire group, that's when the teamwork really sets in. We've probably all been in companies that like the teamwork is really gelled and something is off and you're talking to each other on stage and maybe somebody had to jump in 10 minutes before the show and you're all talking to that one dancer, telling them where to be and doing that. And then completely different company, completely different gig. and it's the exact opposite. There's no teamwork. You feel all alone. You had to jump in last minute oh boy, who's got my back now? yeah And so I think that that's another aspect is like, what's the team that you're on? And when you're training, you kind of have to train that teamwork as well. And I think a lot of these kids are coming from competitions and performing every weekend. And so Hopefully most of them have that and hopefully their teachers are building these communities where they can do that for each other. I think that that's super, super, super important when it comes to the mental health piece of this and not feeling like you're alone and not feeling like if I mess up, it's only me, eyes are only on me, but really being able to gel as a community, your village, right? To just kind of bring all of these themes into one.
00:51:21
Speaker
That's what being a dancer is. It's being human, it's being a part of a community, it's being part of a team. Yeah, when you make those big mistakes, or small, but especially a big mistake in a big moment, how your team, how the rest of your company reacts to that mistake makes all the difference in whether it'll happen again.
00:51:38
Speaker
Being able to make a big mistake and then even as a dancer, you're devastated. I let everybody down. I can't believe I did that. If the rest of the company, the rest of your team says, yes, that was a mistake. It sucks. We believe in you. That was a weird fluke. We've seen you hit this a million times in practice. We believe in you. We love you. We've got this.
00:51:56
Speaker
That dancer has a very good chance of hitting it the next time. The team that shuts the door, doesn't talk to them, just has that really abrasive and negative reaction. That dancer is going to make the mistake again. Like it's just going to keep happening or it's much harder for them to talk themselves out of it or to get to a better space. So it is, it's bringing all this together.
00:52:16
Speaker
The village in the moment, the village after the mistake to help you with the reset, to tell each other, this is what I do when I make a mistake because we all do. Maybe it'll help you. Maybe that doesn't. Try this one instead. And working together to find that synergy on stage. And even just the eye contact in the moment when you're on stage, you find someone...
00:52:34
Speaker
Yep. they look at you and you're like, okay. Yeah. I've intentionally choreographed those moments, but I'm like, we're about to do something tricky and this dancer is going to have a hard time. You're going to find this dancer and we're going to have a head movement that makes you see each other four counts before this thing happens because I know you're going to need it on stage. Yeah. Those small moments make a big difference.
00:52:51
Speaker
Yes. Last question to wrap this up from both of you. If dancers listening, take one lesson from all of these Olympic stories that we've shared, what would you want it to be? I always go to the controllables piece because it does relate back to a lot of it. So what is in your control?
00:53:11
Speaker
Hold on to that. Work on that. Find confidence from doing that work. Trust yourself because of that. You can build the self-talk around what you can control and the work you've done and the stuff that's not in your control.
00:53:24
Speaker
to let it go and not let that be a story of who you are or tell you something about who you are because of somebody else's opinions or what they say to you. Like none of that can change who you are. So it's that sense of self and humanity and who I am. And if I know who I am and I know what I value and I know what I care about and I spend my time and effort on those aspects of who I am, then that supports so many of these challenges when you can focus on that piece.
00:53:52
Speaker
And it's so hard. And the most elite dancers still need help with it. So it's a never ending process. It's not this goal of like, someday I'll have that. We're all constantly building towards it. I completely agree with all of that. yeah I think being a human first is just the number one message that I've been giving to dancers over and over. Being a dancer is one thing about you.
00:54:13
Speaker
Being yourself is everything. and i think that Finding the confidence in that and finding who you are underneath your dancing will make all the difference in terms of longevity of your career, how your satisfaction in your career, how happy you are in your career, and your ability to say, hey I'm done now. But just that sense of self. Yeah.
00:54:37
Speaker
I feel like the biggest thing that I'm taking away is how important that mental health and mental strength aspect is of all of this, because there's no question that every single person who's at the Olympics is an incredible elite athlete.
00:54:52
Speaker
They're also physically strong, physically capable. And the big difference that we saw was really coming down to how they approach things mentally and what they did in those moments. As dancers, we can kind of push that to the back. And it really needs to be part of our training plan and part of our village to find someone who could help us with those things too. Because if you ignore...
00:55:15
Speaker
the mental side of things. There's only so far you can go. And it's there for you in every level of your training. You can start it as the littlest dancer. It's not just for the elite. And if you learn it young, that makes it a little easier. But even if you're hearing this later in your career, later in your training,
00:55:30
Speaker
It's not too late. Obviously speaking as the sports psychologist and validating my entire field, that that's what this is and how valuable it is. But you're right. And the research says it too. Like the most elite athletes, the difference is the mental aspects, the mental toughness, how they handle challenges. And we can train that as dancers.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yes. Amazing. Thank you so much, Chelsea and Wendy. This was really fun to talk about all things Olympics. I'm so grateful for you and your insights. And I know our listeners are going to take a lot away from this conversation. And so everyone listening, i am going to link again in the show notes, Chelsea and Wendy's interviews that I did with them a while back. They're some of my first guests on the podcast, but they're also so good. So much insight and wisdom. You're definitely going to want to tune in. So thank you so much for listening today. And thank you, ladies. Thank you. Thank you. it was so fun.
00:56:19
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:56:32
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:56:45
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.