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Whose Argument is it Anyways - Is Luigi Mangione a modern day folk hero? Anti-Hero? Open Door Panel
17 Plays10 days ago
Tonight on a special episode of WHOSE ARGUMENT IS IT ANYWAYS!!! That's right, we're knocking the dust of WAA and bringing you guys a Nonsensical Network exclusive, IS LUIGI MANGIONE A FOLK HERO? This an open door panel discussion, and anyone is invited up to share their perspective, argument, or opinion. Hope you enjoy! #LuigiMangione #media #conversation #podcast #discussion #nonsensenetwork #fyp #justice #debate #journalism
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Transcript
Introduction and Context Setting
00:00:18
Speaker
i
00:00:28
Speaker
yes
00:00:31
Speaker
The crap we, the sounds we had to deal with when we were children. Welcome friday to nonsensical networks. Whose argument is it anyway? We are knocking the dust off this show.
00:00:44
Speaker
and freshen it up a bit with the spicy controversial topic. um well We're gonna be talking about the Luigi. Mangione. Mangione, yes. Mangione CEO murder. um Yeah, it's gonna be nice. Alleged. You gotta put a legend there. Alleged. Alleged. Very good point. Alleged, thank you.
Luigi Mangione Case Discussion
00:01:07
Speaker
ah Jeff, um why what how we get here?
00:01:13
Speaker
a special episode of whose argument is it anyway? Well, you know, so it's it's kind of funny how this episode came about. we We, you know, some copped up in the news on your feed or my feed, and we started discussing it in the Snapchat group.
00:01:32
Speaker
And you were like, we should do a show about this because we were getting like it became, uh, I wouldn't say heated, but it was like, it was like for an hour and a half, all we could, and this and this and this. So we were like, we should do this as a show. And I said, well, let's bring back the whose argument is that anyway, episodes.
00:01:53
Speaker
so we can discuss this and of course uh here in a little bit we're going to do open panel so that anybody listening can come in and give their two cents because and sorry i'm trying to write i forgot to copy and paste oh you're good you're good i am uh i'm actually i'm actually currently uh so because this is an open panel discussion i am trying to get uh it over to discord uh in a debate threat I made, maybe we'll get some people from outside the network. The normal scope, so to speak. And show their perspective. So on this topic that we're talking about, there's going to be a lot of other topics in the peripheral. For instance, the state of health care in this country is definitely going to be one that pops up. About 100%.
00:02:49
Speaker
um
00:02:52
Speaker
Oh, shoot. um Economics, I think, is going to be another one. Wage divide or wage gap is going to be usual. Well, yeah. Is health care a right or not? That's going to be another one. So this is where you are. it already is yeah right So this is a touch outside of nonsensical networks of bread and bread and butter, bread and butter. You know what I mean? We don't use right. This is our normal State of affairs, and you know, we we usually don't really get political ah And like when Chris and I started the network that or started the show that was kind of our thing We're like, let's not do political and let's not do politics or let's not do politics and let's not do religion because oh We're not smart enough And and we wanted to be funny all the time
00:03:47
Speaker
However, when it came to this case coming up, or, well, and and the case is, of course, ongoing, it was one of those things where it just became, it's a hot topic button that when you and I were talking about it back and forth on the Snapchat channel, it was one of those things where, like,
00:04:06
Speaker
the it It's everything's there and not there for it's ripe for discussion So to speak is that the I guess that's the political way to put it.
Healthcare System and Economic Issues
00:04:19
Speaker
It's ripe for discussion and I don't I so First of all, I want to say even though this this is going to touch on politics. but I think this issue um Kind of goes out outside the bounds of political. Oh, yeah
00:04:37
Speaker
Well, ah you and I were talking about statistics the other day and I still maintain that like 70% closer to 80% of the population are on this dude's side because at the end of the day, yeah if you're making $10 million dollars as a CEO denying people health care, you kind of deserve it, dick.
00:05:05
Speaker
So on all that, on those hills, I am going to go ahead and drop the link. Anybody? Yeah, go for it. It's free to come up. Let's talk about this. um yeah one thing One thing that kind of bugs me, and i think and this is why I think it goes outside the political lines. I think it's more of a class OG Jones, so here's the main question I have. Do you believe, hold up.
00:05:32
Speaker
So here's the question I have. Do you believe Mangione targeted him for a cause? If so, what information do you have that confirms that? His Instagram and his, what was the other, I think it's his Twitter bio. ah guy but And this is, I don't have the exact information about it, but one of the things he, he, there's a number that keeps consistent with everything he posts.
00:06:01
Speaker
It's like 289 or something like that. And that 289 transfers to a, 289 is the code to deny, I think, allegedly, to deny healthcare in in in the that company company policy.
00:06:22
Speaker
um I don't think it was like he's just randomly looking to kill somebody. So, Was it for a cause? I think so, for the simple fact. ah This kid was, you know, he's he's not he's not blue collar, let's put it that way. He's a very white collar kid. um He was valedictorian in a high school class that cost $40,000 a year to go to as a high school. um And then, of course, he went to Yale. Was it Yale? Not Yale.
00:06:57
Speaker
ah but but yeah What's the one he went to? i can um I can look that up real quick. Yeah.
00:07:08
Speaker
I can't remember where he went to school, but. um Gilman attended Gilman School, which was in Baltimore. So. Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
University would wouldt pi mercy and yeah University of Pennsylvania University. Yeah, so ah and and he he had Okay, hold on my code is 109 I actually because I think it's important to produce sure something Wait the code for the miles because I think it's important to do something showing
00:07:56
Speaker
i'm not sure you code of denial one oh nine it's not so much be a position i guess if you hold a position i am kind of still waiting on the defense's argument to be presented i i'm curious definitely goingnna get into the charges right
00:08:23
Speaker
which me bring those but yeah he's charged with that the thing i found messed up was he was charged uh 286 is the code for health insurance companies when they appeal time limits for a health care that's what the code for is 286 what difference does it make what code was used when denying the reason the reason why um So, louis and this is my theory, I don't know how true this is, but but Luigi actually got hurt and he had have yeah had to have a, I need to delete something here. Here we go. Okay, jeff Jeff mentioned it. Okay, cool. Yeah. Recents is also the code health insurance companies use when it's built on the code. No, but i guess I guess ultimately my question is,
00:09:21
Speaker
ah Hey, thanks. Uh, uh, OG classes. Yeah. Um, you can come soldier so, I don't think, all right. What I mean is what differences and make what code the insurance company uses to make it any of their decisions. The question that I think, I think
CEO Pay and Corporate Responsibility
00:09:39
Speaker
the contention is that they're making that decision anyway, regardless of what, oh great regardless of what code they've already agreed on, which, which.
00:09:49
Speaker
which would cause that rejection, denial, repeal, et cetera. Well, the reason why I bring that, that two 86 number up is if you look on Luigi's, uh, Instagram, he's got 286 posts. His, he, uh, for his headline head header for, I think it's his Twitter, he shows a Pokemon and the Pokemon is categorized as number two 86. Um,
00:10:20
Speaker
He has a Spotify playlist that he built this that has. Oh, okay. I see what's going on. Okay. So oh OG classic is saying what the code they use was 109. So the two 86 that you brought up and all these connections you're making seems a bit. It's kind of, that's why, that's why I think he did it for a cause. I honestly, I, I don't think you have to look at like his,
00:10:49
Speaker
social media post counts and other connections to the number 286 to look at a cause such as health insurance companies are bad. You know, I don't, I don't know. I get i mean, what oh yeah so the code matters in the, in the conventional sense that when these insurance companies make their denials, they have a code that they're going to like,
00:11:18
Speaker
You know, this is why we're making the denial because it fixed this code, 109 blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think, you know, above that, like in, in, in, if you look at the whole scope of the situation, why he was denied is less important than the fact people are being denied. Right. And he was denied because he did have a back issue. And I actually, yeah I have a picture of his, uh,
00:11:49
Speaker
X-ray he had that you know he he I don't know if I think it was a from my understanding was a pre-existing condition But it of course flared up while surfing and he was denied now luckily his parents got enough money where they were like yeah, we got you bro, but I i think this is where it's gotten this kid thinking where he's like Not everybody's as well off as me. This is bullshit kind of thing
00:12:16
Speaker
Did the guy he shot have have health insurance? The guy he shot was the CEO of the health insurance company. You you know, yeah that is an awesome question. And I was thinking about this earlier. These CEOs of these insurance companies and even like the people below the CEOs, maybe not all the way down at the bottom doing the phone calls, typing buttons. But do do these big bosses in these health insurance companies ever get denied themselves? Oh, of course not.
00:12:47
Speaker
Well, not all of that. I mean, is that is that information that we can get? you know Because I think that would be very interesting. I think that would show some... Because if you look up what their insurance ah claims are compared to what their customers are, and
US Healthcare vs Universal Systems
00:13:06
Speaker
is it the same kind of denials? You know what I mean?
00:13:10
Speaker
No, I understand exactly what I mean. I'm trying to, I can't remember the name of the CEO, Brian Thompson. um But, you know, i I dabble in the healthcare care industry myself as part of what I do. um ah Definitely appreciate the galaxy. Hell yeah. Yeah.
00:13:37
Speaker
You couldn't get denied. Imagine you had to make sure of that. That's right. Well, you know, I, somebody, somebody put online, they said it would have been a little bit more interesting. Not that I'm condoning what they said, but if they would have, if he would have shot the CEO so that the guy was wounded and had to sit in the hospital and then get denied because he didn't have healthcare. But I thought that was fun. Um, one thing I do want to point out real quick that, uh, we do not condone murder. Um,
00:14:07
Speaker
yeah I don't, I, from a personal aspect, I don't, I don't ever recite the words, you know, violence is never the answer. I think history has proven us. That isn't true, but this is, I think this, this whole topic brings up an interesting situation.
00:14:26
Speaker
way How do we get here? You know what I mean? So regardless of if you are for or against what Uh, I think the biggest question is how do we get here? Cause I don't think that's really being talked about in mainstream media. Well, the reason why we're here is simple. I mean, as Brian Thompson, the guy that was shot that that's undeniable, uh, who shot him, that's alleged still. Um, but, but
Luigi Mangione's Defense and Legal Implications
00:14:54
Speaker
the guy that got shot, he was making $10 million dollars a year. Uh, and, um, once again, allegedly Luigi shot him.
00:15:05
Speaker
And for reasons, because this guy, like their, their policy for most, uh, higher ups, I guess in the health industry is, is, uh, did I defend the pose? Yeah. And, and so, you know, allegedly that was written on the bullet casings. Um,
00:15:31
Speaker
And you know, you're not even talking about the ghost gun thing. And, you know, it was supposedly a 3D printed gun, me being a 3D printed, United controls, 80% of the health, 85% of the world's health insurance, by the way, according to OG. So so and this is this is going to touch on AI real quick. I know this is like I said, this this little this little itty that little itty bitty.
00:15:59
Speaker
But this moment in history, I mean, kind of has this intersectionality with stuff. So back in, back in ah November of 2023, so this is like well, before he do have almost a year, it was reported that UHC had a, ah but but but they used, they started using AI software while he explained.
00:16:25
Speaker
And they had this huge, like 90 something percent error rate. Actually, I have that. And I actually sent that to you, I think. Yeah. I just don't remember when. I mean, it was a while back. So this also presents the question. I mean, when health companies make these sort of decisions in the records. All right. So just something that I want to point
Capitalism's Impact on Healthcare
00:16:50
Speaker
out that I've noticed, the people that are very adamantly against the fact that this man got shot
00:17:14
Speaker
don't give a shit about no they don't I think I think one thing I've noticed is I would say the majority don't there's there's there's more of us working class that give more shit about the CEOs that any of the CEOs give any shit about the working class and I think I think this this is kind of highlighted that may I give take this one hold on may I give it take this away people are divided about this from Manchester absolutely dude oh please by all means come on up if you want to come up dude I absolutely would love to hear
00:17:46
Speaker
uh uh uh a tank on this from outside our our borders I actually I actually invite that yeah well the funny thing is is like this isn't something that's discussed here oh yeah here it is I found the I found the article let me go ahead yeah oh yeah I was looking at uh I was looking at it on uh Arstegna or Technica Technica Technica and they you'll see is like Blackwater health insurance industry. They bomb all the small insurance companies. They've been around since the 70s. So I think taking over companies, OG classic, you know, um and it sounds like you you you would you might agree with me that these these big so these big corporations have gotten way too big, too big to fail. And and because they're in a position that they can never fail,
00:18:46
Speaker
It gives them this power that they have, that they should. It's also ah almost like a false sense of security. Yeah.
Public Funded Technologies and Accessibility
00:18:55
Speaker
It will it is in the sense that they they do have that, but yeah also it's it's false in the sense that if we were to you know take it away you know in a reformation in Congress or something,
00:19:12
Speaker
You know, we can you know take that power away. Well, there's a reason why the United States doesn't have universal health care. Let's be honest. It comes down to lobbyists, you know, shaking hands and kissing babies or vice versa. And.
00:19:30
Speaker
and many This is the article that you and I i sent you a while back. is AI had a 90% error rate, but you know but United Care continued using the system denying insurance claims because the company knew only a tiny majority of policyholders, about 0.2% would appeal the denies, said lawsuit. I wonder, I wonder, and I don't know if this is public or maybe this might be part of the trial.
00:19:58
Speaker
If his denial was part of that. I would not surprise me. And they did absolutely or they did nothing to to fix it or it was too late by the time they had caught it and the damage medically and to his health was already done. There was nothing they could do. Well, no, I think that because he did get it because of his own money. don't Don't get me wrong. Right. The point being, even though it's a lot of money and it might not be to him,
00:20:25
Speaker
I'm sure he understands that to more common folk, that is a huge problem. That's like- Oh, it's huge. Well, you gotta remember, you know, what was I was listening to something today and it was it was like one of those stupid goofy stories I hear on on TikTok that I, it's like, you know, the aliens thought this, you know, it's like this made up story, right? But in the story, this lady said,
00:20:53
Speaker
The she says I finally don't have to worry about an ambulance ride Bankrupting me. Yeah and and which is true because
Healthcare System Flaws and Doctor Burnout
00:21:05
Speaker
God forbid you stub your toe in the wrong way and end up the next Bob Marley, you know and that one little buddy ambulance ride is So outrageously high that You're like, I'm never going to financially recover from this. Uh, because of the simple fact it's, it's not in the budget, so to speak. So OG brings up a good, good point. Most people don't appeal because it takes forever. And people tend to just give up and say, fuck it. But doctors can't deny me treatment due to, to. democratic democrat but Thank you. Hippocratic oath.
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah. So I was, I was listening to an interview and it was somebody from the medical industry and sorry, I don't remember names. It was, I was just cruising and I had my Spotify off. So it automatically FM and I think it's NPR. Right. So they were talking about the statistics on how many doctors are burnt out. They're not burnt out because of their medical profession, like doing a medical job. Some of them are, uh, but there was, there's also a huge chunk.
00:22:21
Speaker
that's exhausted from the amount of bureaucracy. Because even even doctors will send letters to insurance companies also repealing denials from their medical ah situation. And what you had brought up earlier about lobbyist money in our government, we can go on Citizens United discussion whenever about that. But because all these lobbyist groups get to bring in all this big money into it,
00:22:49
Speaker
um it created literally created a situation where you're not getting your healthcare based on what the doctor says you need. It's based on what some guy sitting behind the desk and his shareholders need. Yeah. Well, you got to remember when it comes to a, you know, as as a, ah you know, I run a small business, but when you get your, when your business is big enough,
00:23:19
Speaker
And you're part of the board. The board has a, as by law, has a fiduciary obligation to make money. So, okay. And this is kind of what, uh, that kind of explains, uh, Vigil, uh, as, as you know, uh, as, as you're aware in the UK has NHS, my understanding of insurance firm, this guy was in charge of ah putting caveats and blocks and procedural barriers to his customers on getting care. That's basically kind of what the insurance guy does. So they're, they're usually privately owned publicly owned. I don't know exactly how they're private. So shareholders own it, own it. And so the, so, and like you had said, by law, they have to make sure their shareholders make a profit, make money. So if they don't, they can get sued. Well,
00:24:14
Speaker
so yeah fired So basically this guy, uh, Thompson was his name. Yeah. Brian Thompson. He's been in, he was in UHC for, I want to say close to a decade and he moved up the ranks, but this is the insurance company. And I think this kind of piggybacks off what Virgil was saying. I think it's totally despicable.
00:24:35
Speaker
This gentleman was like, his bosses before him was like, dude, you're so good at letting people die. We're going to fucking promote you twice to CEO. So yeah. Hey, because that was his job to make sure the shareholders make money. And in, in a health insurance company, the money come that you're, you're making money off your customer base, your customer base, your is where they extract their wealth.
00:25:03
Speaker
So for them to turn around and they give that money back to their customer base, well, that's bad business because, you know, but we run health care that way. Well, and and, you know, like you'll, you'll, if you're a doctor in, in Mexico, you would much rather be a doctor in the States.
00:25:28
Speaker
you're a doctor in Well, hold on. If you're a doctor in Canada, you'd much rather be a doctor in the States because you make more money because Canada and Mexico both have universal health care. Yeah. So the hospitals also run themselves like a business as well. Like ah I've watched scrubs. So if so.
00:25:53
Speaker
When a doctor, when these doctors, I see, I'm not sure what the Hippocratic Oath is in Canada or Mexico if there's one similar. I think it is. Thank you for your answer, Blaze, and it's interesting. Hey, you're welcome, Virgil. Yeah, cool. What was I saying? Oh, what was I saying? Oh, shoot. You were talking about- Oh, yes.
Potential Societal Changes from Luigi's Trial
00:26:17
Speaker
So the Hippocratic Oath, I know that's a thing here in the States. I'm not sure if there's anything like that.
00:26:23
Speaker
Mexico or Canada. Okay, with with that being said, um here in the States, if I feel if somebody makes an oath like that, it's not about money. I think the only reason why it's about money in America is because the way the health insurance company... Canada, yes. Because I think because the way the insurance company has driven the the health and industry in a competitive way that it's, they have no choice but to make more money, especially when you add on top of that ah malpractice suits and ah that doctors have to then pay. That's, that's one reason why doctors get a lot of money is because they have to pay malpractice insurance. So, you know, there's, there's that as well. So it's not,
00:27:18
Speaker
I hear that argument. Well, can't ah first, I've never actually heard a doctor from either of those countries say that. However, if if that's true, I think they're not looking at it in the perspective of what responsibilities come with me. oh great ah Agree. Agree. And I think that's and i think the biggest issue. And if any doctor were to make that that argument, I'm doing it for the money.
00:27:47
Speaker
I would question, I would a question his care. Yeah. But like, for instance, I have a i a friend of mine. He's a doctor here and he makes about a quarter. What a normal physician makes in the States. Okay. Um, is he, is he, hold on. Is he living a life of poverty and yeah in starvation? No, no, it's comfortably.
00:28:16
Speaker
I would say just. Well, okay. Maybe there, there, I don't know how he does his finances, but there might be an argument he might need a little bit more, but this excessive wealth. Oh no, I get that. I get that. Okay. So there's this like, and that's the thing. We all understand this, but I think at some point we need to not only understand it, but apply some practices like, well, yeah, you know, so.
00:28:41
Speaker
I think we need, I think it's a cultural consciousness thing or a societal consciousness thing that because we live under the system we do, everything has to be competitive. And I think that in itself is, especially in the healthcare care industry, has backfired to the point where it's to the point where people are but dying because of it. Oh yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Well, it's like, well,
00:29:08
Speaker
you know, I actually saw, you know, I follow a bunch of of business owners. And the one guy he said, uh, you know, see the CEO, Brian Thompson was making $10 million dollars a year as the CEO. Um, a bit excessive. Um, but the lowest paid employee for that same healthcare company was only making like $45,000 a year. So, and
00:29:40
Speaker
Um, before I answer Virgil's question or before you answer this question, um, one thing that you were just talking about. So when it comes to the wage, yeah. Cause you're, this is basically wage gap. So on average, this is average CEOs make 340 something percent more than the average lowest wage worker. Right. See, I'm all right. Now, first of all, you guys know I'm not a fan of capitalism. However, right.
00:30:09
Speaker
However, I believe in, you know, reformation, you can't flip a switch, but I think one thing we need to, I think one thing we need to discuss more right now is a maximum wage cap. I'm not saying, um it is a possibility I'm not, hold on. I'm not saying this maximum wage cap always stays the same. However, I think there should be some realistic number. Some say 6%. I'm willing to go to 20%.
00:30:40
Speaker
However, I think 340 something percent fucking ridiculous. Well, here's the thing. So by law, if you own a business or you're the CEO of business, and this is tax law in the US, if you pay yourself too little, you get taxed more. If you pay yourself too much, you pass more. So there is a there is a happy median there.
00:31:04
Speaker
there's definitely in in fixing this readjusting our tax calls but I want to I want to get to Virgil real quick I don't want to yeah'll go ahead get past the question so I want to keep this open in the audience let them go ahead please move the needle a bit Jeff do you see a site or a psychiatric defense coming sir oh no no because ah in order to get a psychiatric defense you you basically have to Say, I'm a fucking crazy person, you know, and show up, you know, uh, the, uh, if you ever seen the movie, people versus Larry Flynn, Larry Flynn could have gone for a psychiatric defense. If he was, you know, if he wasn't being sued by the government, but then you know, you'd have to actually show up and be a crazy person. So now I, I have to push it and finish, but I'm going to push back a little bit. No, go ahead. Uh, the reason why I say that is like,
00:32:03
Speaker
When you see Luigi kind of, you know, when he's being brought back and forth and moving around, he's not, you know, out of his mind nuts. he's He's mildly put together, I would say, you know, like, yeah, he's in cuffs and stuff. But but you can tell this dude's he's he's too smart to try to get away with something that like is 100% false. I agree. The dude actually, I think, has a very high level intelligence.
00:32:33
Speaker
um Yeah, I do still think there could be a possible of a Insanity defense that's typically what it's commonly stays Virgil, but the psychiatric defense is definitely more technical and ah Probably not ableist. Um, so what that means exactly og is That's what I was talking about. You show up, cover your own shit. You know, you do it. Well, it didn't work for Charlie Manson. I mean, did you, doesn't say it didn't work. The Ted Nugent freaking defense. Anyway, so, um, there are, there are instances where defenses have come, have been used for like momentary lapses of sanity. yeah Um, that can be a possibility. And I, you know, I'm not surprised.
00:33:20
Speaker
emotional distress, and we don't know everything in his life that he had built up to that. That that could that could possibly spark such an episode. We don't know. Oh, 100%. We don't know. And that's why I... I want to say something real quick. This court case is going to be this generation's O.J. Simpson case. Oh, 100%. 100%. For example, I think his lawyer,
00:33:48
Speaker
is way too smart to like, let's try a ah swing for the fences side defense. You know what I mean? She's, as you and I were discussing before we started, she's wicked smart. So OG, if you had a ghost gun, you can't use that defense gun. So some site some psychological um um of diagnoses or conditions, you know, manifest, manifest, manifest differently.
00:34:17
Speaker
and over different frames of talk. So i mean what I mean, he could have been going through some psychosis for like months and all during this month. He was playing, you know, I don't know. I'm just, I'm just speculating, speculating. Yes. This this is all speculation. but because Here's the thing with court cases and defenses and prosecutions. Like there's got to be real quick, real quick, right away. yeah
00:34:43
Speaker
just saying the views and opinions expressed by hosts and guests do not reflect the views and opinions of the network or its management i'm just saying go ahead uh just real quick virgil many have fake mental illnesses including son of sam and i speak as a very senior charge nurse you know i would i I know it doesn't seem like you want to come up tonight, and that's fine. But if any other time you would like to come up on a topic such as this, man, I would really love to hear your perspective on health care from outside this country. I think more of me being in the military for as long as I was moving around, learning like local laws and how shit was ran.
00:35:29
Speaker
I think more of us American citizens need to hear how healthcare is in other places. I'm not saying it's perfect everywhere, it's not. um not thirty percent you know i'm I'm of the sound mind that you can pick from different systems if parts of those systems work and you can build build new systems and try a new shit. Cause I mean, faces all the human experience and experience.
00:35:56
Speaker
It's actually a good point. The humanitarian candidate thing. But I also, I also, I also see a, um, you ever seen the movie John Q with Denzel Washington? It sounds familiar. Is that one of his older ones? Well, he, he his son needs a heart transplant. So he, he goes into the hospital and kind of kidnaps everybody. Uh,
00:36:23
Speaker
ah that's that and That's right up here with that. I mean, there's a lot of good points made in that movie about the healthcare system in the United States. And that was back in like, what, 2002 or 2003? So, and not much as, yes, it is a healthcare movie. that That movie speaks volumes to this case because in that case, ah one of the nurses actually says,
00:36:49
Speaker
ah
00:36:52
Speaker
he's He's talking about health insurance and he and they they they speak of the Hippocratic oath as a hypocritical oath. And how the the ah doctor, played that by James Woods, is will do no harm unless they don't have insurance. and And James Woods even says in the movie, he's like, you know what, you're not far off.
00:37:21
Speaker
because at the end of the day, um
00:37:26
Speaker
hospitals don't want to take the risk because they might lose money just to save somebody's life because hospitals in the States and hospitals and and insurance companies, they're they're looked on as businesses, not as healthcare. care Do you think, and I think this applies to I think to all businesses, big businesses, especially under under capitalism where, and this is, I think this is, I think you can look at Hollywood as a big big example of this, that everything has become so cookie cutter and safe for the sake of making profits.
00:38:10
Speaker
that taking a risk anymore to try something different has become alien to us? Not just alien. I mean, I'm talking like in art, like creativity, policies, technology. Oh, 100%. I mean, exploration. I mean, it seems like. Any time you do anything outside the norm, whether it be business, whether it be art, whether it be Car customization would it be building your house. You looked upon as a crazy person. ah there's ah There's a friend of mine. He he actually owns a business, and he oh he has 75 employees. Now, he could easily be making $4 or $5 million dollars a year. He only takes home $200,000 a year, and he tripled his employee's salary.
00:39:02
Speaker
And everybody else in the same kind of business and we're like, what are you fucking retarded? He's like, no, because my employees are loyal. They show up, they call in late less. they They don't have to, they don't ask for overtime all the time. They don't want to ask for more vacations because they're making more. His lowest employee makes $90,000 a year. And the guy's a janitor.
00:39:29
Speaker
see i'm i'm a i ah Virgil, i dude I love the comment. Just so you know, I'm glad you found us too, but a lot of our other stuff can be sort of big jokes and fart jokes. Oh yeah, we are we are the dick of fart jokes. Speaking of, it this would be a good time to run down our our weekly lineup. Yeah. Nice segue. Yeah, I see what you did there.
00:39:58
Speaker
Scrolling the bottom of your screen is Mondays. We do speedway stories and cold building conversations with Wally. Basically anything with a race car or a ah reptile. I know it's a weird combo, but it is what it is. On Mondays also we do Men Caring for Men. Right now that show is going to be pre-recorded. Some episodes will be live.
00:40:20
Speaker
ah Basically, it's men's mental health. um Tuesdays is Glick's House of Music, where Glick interviews up and coming music artists. Wednesdays, with the exception of this Wednesday. um What the fuck news, where we find the craziest stories that meant you make you just say, what the fuck?
00:40:39
Speaker
Thursdays usually is Jeff's garage. I'm actually getting back on track with that. Um, if it fits in a garage, we're going to talk about it. Hobbies mostly, uh, Fridays tomorrow, uh, nonsense and chill where, where Blaze and I see sit and watch movies and talk about them tomorrow. We're doing a Christmas story. Um, Saturday around noon or one ish. Uh, I think it's every other Saturday right now is Cassius corner.
00:41:06
Speaker
And then Saturday night we do nonsensical nonsense. We do the open door challenge where you can come up and be part of the conversation. It's a six hour show. We talk about anything and everything out of the sun. Usually try to make it funny and loud. And then Sundays of course is unnecessary roughness with boys talk, foodie football. And you can find everything we do at bio.link slash nonsensical network, including the link to our merch store.
00:41:31
Speaker
And I forgot to put all those links in the description tonight. Battle. All right, we'll do it later. You're fired! As Blake always says, you're fired. Virgil, the first lady in the Hippocratic Oath is University of Omaha. So you're from outside the site, outside of the States. And you brought that up. So I'm starting to think that it's it's more international than a national. it is That's what I was just looking up. Yeah. I think, I think, I think in a way that that oath in itself kind of, okay guys, plays and takes. It's actually from a Greek medical text. I'm, I'm for, I'm for the idea that healthcare is your point. I agree.
00:42:20
Speaker
ah How we bring that right to fruition, I think is, is it's off story is where I like to debate because you're not going to push me. I mean, um um I don't like to say that I'm grounded in that and I will die on that hill that healthcare care is right, but it's a hill that it's going to take a pretty hefty convincing to push me off of. like Well, I get, you know, nobody should do anything for free, but
00:42:50
Speaker
Well, you know, I'm not saying no. I okay. Yeah, I I agree. Nobody should do something for me. I guess by the way, they're um I'm not reading that right now. My stoner eyes will not let me read that small because I swear by apollo healer. This is the original greek medical text uh by uh, it's By all the gods and goddesses make them all my witnesses that I carry out according to my ability and judgment this oath and this indenture.
00:43:24
Speaker
That's the Hippocratic Oath Bateman from the original text. Walk the fuck on. There are some old ideas that do stand the test of time. Not all of them, not all of them. But so um when I think of you know universal health care, I like to use the example of England. That's okay, I remember you saying that.
00:43:49
Speaker
I, um, I spent some time a couple of months down in Fairford on a TDY and I fucking fell in love with that. Um,
00:44:00
Speaker
um so with gilford guy myself but I'm not going to sit here and say our public education system is perfect. There is some, it needs to be fixed. I think more money needs to be injected into it with that being said.
00:44:18
Speaker
That would be sort of the the national healthcare. It's like an in use thing. Like it's it' well it's at at the point of use, it's there. But our tax money pays for the doctors and the nurses and the rent on the medical facilities and all the technology. because And here's another thing to piggyback off on that. A lot of the technologies that we use, especially in healthcare were created, discovered, or or thought up, invented using US grants, tax money, and all this, and then these capitalists will buy those and then sell it back to us. I i think if our taxpayers aid for that technology, it should be available to us, no ifs, ands, or buts.
00:45:03
Speaker
Like if I need an MRI, I should go get one because my taxpayer money already paid for college. I agree. But the same thing for medicines as well. Exactly. yeah like Yes. Like the price of insulin in the United States is ridiculous. I can go get insulin right now for like 12 bucks. So i'm not I don't like saying that I did say the nationalization, but again,
00:45:29
Speaker
I would like to see no government at all, but something I would like to see. Yeah. Well, there there's, there's a good debate. but and the difference because There's, there's, there's sometimes I'm with you 100%. Don't get me wrong. So I'm ah more of a anarcho syndicalist anyway. Um, so of it for, for instance, I think one thing that, cause when we talk about universal health care, the topic of, well, how do we pay for One, I think corporations need to be taxed more, but that's and and another debate. agree one One thing, and I know people get pissed off this, because yes, we will be taking private property away from these ah rich people, but we nationalize our um are energy industry, like oil, fossil fuels and all that, and any money made from it, from like when we sell it, because we'll use what we need.
00:46:24
Speaker
will have reserves and then whatever we sell because we do have a big export on oil from this country. and Whatever money we make from that, we put back into stuff for the people like health care, infrastructure, ah fire protection, etc. But I would like to see it more more of like a unionized industry, not so much controlled by a government. Well, when you what do you think about it, and the the The countries that have universal health care, Canada, Australia, Germany, Brazil, Belgium, Denmark, France, Japan, China, Brunei, Austria, Colombia, Albania, Algeria, UK, Costa Rica, Argentina, Chile, Croatia, Bulgaria, that's not even all of them. And here's the thing, not all ah not all those countries are like first
00:47:21
Speaker
first rate countries either. Correct. Well, Mexico has universal health care. But in Mexico, the way they do it here is so you have shit you can go to a private hospital. Yeah, you're going to pay more, but you can also go to the quote unquote free hospital. Hold on. I always love a compliment. I find you guys very interesting. Love the push and pull.
00:47:48
Speaker
Now wear a different hat, Glazen. If you were his defense lawyer, what would your defense strategy be? Ooh. Oh, you know, you're like so, like so no lie. Uh, the lawyer representing, representing Luigi is actually a lawyer that she's, uh, this a woman right here. and Her name escapes me right now. I know it starts. She is, she, um,
00:48:16
Speaker
does a lot of discussion on current ah court cases and she was a, she has a lot, loads of experiences being a lawyer. She was ah ah da a, DA prosecutor for a long time. She went defense attorney, but she's got a lot of, a lot of experience under her belt. She's actually part of a- Karen Frydman, Friedman. She, no, that's not her name. Yeah, defense attorney Karen Frydman are in- So they switched. Wait, no, that was the prosecution. I don't think that's her name. I'm pretty sure I could be wrong. Anyway, she's part of a independent journalist channel on YouTube called Midas Touch. And it's a group of lawyers to get together. And there's some other family men members that help. They do journalism and they bring their lawyer um experience to it.
00:49:15
Speaker
and um Okay, I'm wrong. And anyway, so, so if I were, so I guess, I guess long story short, if I were to, my defense would probably most likely line up with what hers is. I don't know anything about her. I really hate coming up with what my defense would be because I'm not privy to the same information she has right now that his legal team has. But man, that is a good question.
00:49:51
Speaker
I think I would probably first, I would push for a mistrial the first time. I agree. Because of the bias in the media, the bias from the law enforcement agencies um and the prosecutors, um finding I would also push for a, um I would change venue, I would push for a change of venue.
00:50:15
Speaker
Um, great. Uh, because I think because of the media coverage, the way the media coverage has been, I think it's been too biased. And I think it's going to be a very, very hard time finding a very impartial jury. Um, I would definitely use those. in my i discuss There might not even be a jury because he's being charged with terrorism. So, okay. Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. I think that is ridiculously in weight. I agree.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah, i I don't think it's an act of terrorism. Um, but I do want to look up the definition of terrorism because I think you can squeeze it in there.
00:50:55
Speaker
Uh, if I, if I remember a fun very, okay. An unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians in the pursuit of political. So he's.
00:51:11
Speaker
It is because it, see, that's the thing. It depends on what his motive is. If his motive was personal, if his motive was personal is because he was rejected. I can see that not they, that not sticking. However, they find that his motive was for political clouds to be, to start a political revolution and healthcare change in this country. Then I can see that.
00:51:39
Speaker
that being found. I guess it all depends on on what what they prove is his motive, so to speak. Well, and and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're never going to know the dude's motive because I can tell you my motive for showing up here tonight is just to argue with you or just to ah be seen on camera. That doesn't mean it's true. You know, good or it will be or could be a small part of a bigger motive. Just, you know. Exactly. So, you know, it's one of those things that's like, ah it's like we we were talking before the show about how he's being he's being um defined,
00:52:34
Speaker
so to speak, as kind of like a Robin Hood character or today's Batman. because he's ranching, you know, he's he's doing stuff for the people kind of thing. that That kind of goes to the the the title of the show. Is he a folk hero? Is he a superhero? Is he, or not like a super like meta? No, he's Batman. Batman's not super in any way. so well like Like an anti-hero. I think that would be there. Like Punisher. This is an interesting thing. Our society has this thing where we romanticize characters like that.
00:53:11
Speaker
it Punisher the punisher is a good one, especially when these same law enforcement people plaster their shit on their cars You know what I mean? Yeah, there's well there's this like I mean that the The this shot this photo that I'm showing on screen is genius Because I mean that There was a school shooting
00:53:39
Speaker
ah Not not long ago like a couple days after Luigi was caught two cops total showed up pick up this kid that did the school shooting and Luigi gets not only the mayor and and Like 50 cops like he's fucking Superman and he's gonna do something he's Let's be honest. They could have done it with just throwing him back of a cop car and they're there they're pushing the narrative that he's Billy Badass. Yeah. And which spurs everything on and kind of pushes that anti-hero. Uh, it doesn't hurt that the dude's a good looking cat. I don't see it, but whatever, but apparently a lot of chicks online are like, yeah, I got space for him in my basement. Nobody will find him there cause I ain't letting him out for shit. So, um,
00:54:38
Speaker
it's It's one of those things. ah Oh, with respect, brother, I asked what your defense strategy would be, not the trial venue. Well, the defense strategy is simple. Oh, sorry. No, it's all right. But the defense strategy is simple. ah It wasn't me. It wasn't me. I mean, I'll go with the shaggy point of view. It wasn't me.
00:55:05
Speaker
because i saying um fingerprints a dude I'm sorry, it's New York City. her If to beat the terrorism rap, I would probably defend it such as I was doing it for the sake of my own private motives. Secondly, that takes terrorism right off the table I would probably go with a momentary lapse of sanity.
00:55:35
Speaker
I would probably use a psychiatric. I would use a psychiatric defense. Yes. Give them the old brew as well. I'm temporary insane. It's okay. Don't worry about it. Sorry Virgil. I have a hard time answering questions that I don't know like all the information to come up with. Well, that's the other thing. We're not even remotely lawyers. I'm sure he knows that. I'm sure he knows. Oh, I'm good.
00:56:02
Speaker
I just want to put it out there, but, but you know, you also have the, the whole, um,
00:56:11
Speaker
this guy, you know, as you said, if he's like, Oh, I did it for my own reasons. I don't care about what the public thought that takes terrorism right off the venue. Yeah. So, okay. So file if you find a jury of his peers,
00:56:30
Speaker
What a bunch of CEOs no can't do that because that's That that's bias. You can't pick regular people because 90 what like 80% of the public are like we're on you dude. We got your back Sorry, I'm uh, no good I'm setting up a video for break. Okay. Yeah, I Just think uh, you know how OJ trial was televised and Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were televised. Huge to-dos. They should televise us. Oh, absolutely. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. C's banned 24-7, baby. I'm in. I will be doing the show and have a little, you know, picture in picture rocking because it's one of those things that's like,
00:57:25
Speaker
You know, you got to give the dude credit for as many times as he shows up on camera. Now, like if it was me on trial, I would be mugging for the camera like fucking read about it. I just throw the link every once in a while. I mean, I'm sure his lawyers like don't fucking do it. But I'm like, yeah, I'm milking this.
00:57:48
Speaker
Hey, give the old guns. yeah thats So back, back to the hero status things. Um, and that, that picture you showed, I think that was kind of the, cause I had, I had seen that too. That's kind of the basis of this, this whole idea I had like, how's he going down in the history books? I mean, a hundred years down the road, we look back he's a here and he, and he's a hero, you know, I mean,
00:58:18
Speaker
and what vein do we look at that heroism? To me, if I were to say hero, I would definitely say more of the anti-hero. Yeah, i I like your acknowledgement of calling him, what's it called? ah Analogy of Punisher. Because Punisher is 100% an anti-hero, Batman is more of a hero. So the Batman thing, definitely out.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I'm not mad at that. Yeah. Man, this is, um let's take a break. I need a and ah ah beverage. Yeah, I need to use the facilities. Yes. It's just gonna be, I picked a black top mojo song. They let us play their music. This one's called The Void. Just downloaded it off YouTube. bro The Bart Simpson Defense. I like that.
00:59:19
Speaker
Just make it right on the block.
01:01:11
Speaker
Oh, and you answer the boy when it comes
01:03:57
Speaker
And that was the void by black top Mojo from their album under the sun. Yeah. I guess one of their new songs. good's um It was a random pick.
01:04:15
Speaker
So what is this? What is the Bart Simpson defense? I'm not even- I was actually gonna look that up. I don't watch the Simpsons very much and never really- I don't watch the Simpsons at all. I'm i'm familiar with like back in the 90s when the biggest things were eating my shorts dude and don't have a cow but I was a child and too. I didn't do it if nobody saw me do it is the Bart Simpson defense. Oh, okay. Gotcha. I like it. That's my defense. Every day. So that sounds like the ah Ricky defense from trailer park boys. Yeah, that's Did you see me? do it i didn't Um, so yeah, welcome back everybody. We are talking about Luigi man. Johnny It's the brand of salami that everybody likes I was thinking pasta, but okay Sorry, I'm hungry, uh
01:05:10
Speaker
you know we're discussing if if he's a modern folk hero an anti-hero or is just the bad guy is he the bad guy or is this like or is this an instance of one murderer kills another murderer you know there's lots of ways to look at this and that's what i want to that's you know yeah earlier on you mentioned um a possibility of a copycat so okay what do you think the odds Okay, so when I brought that up, there's a lady in the news that sent a message to her insurance company or something like that because she was denied coverage. With those with those phrases, repeal, reject. Deny, depose, deny, delay, depose. Yeah, with those and then she...
01:06:02
Speaker
and then she put underneath there, you're next. And they arrested her and I think her bond's like a hundred thousand dollars, whatever, but they're pretty much calling her a copycat. I don't think that- I say free speech. Well, I'm not even making a free speech argument for or against, but the fact that that's all she put on social media and- She didn't even say it on social media. She said it on the phone. Oh, okay. On the phone.
01:06:31
Speaker
She said that on the phone. I can understand investigating but when like to say copycat, there's a lot of elements that she I think she would have to accomplish before you could put her in the category of a copycat. I would say maybe a frustrated customer that because off the off the spiciness of the story that she she used that as a way to to be more liberal in her venting. I think would be, you know what I mean? You know, not something she would, not something she probably would have said before, but because of the energy from this incident, she's hyped. She's angry. This just happened to her. And that's what she had to say. To say copycat, I think is that's bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was talking about. But you know, the problem when you have, uh, like.
01:07:30
Speaker
I saw something interesting on, on TikTok and I know I get told so many times a day, TikTok is not real news. I will type it on YouTube. Thank you, Virgil. However, Hold on. Hold on. Say that again. Say that again. I said, I said, I did see something on TikTok and I know everybody says, TikTok is not real news. This isn't news. This is this lady, she's a teacher. And apparently the mayor of New York,
01:08:00
Speaker
had a meeting with a bunch of CEOs in the city. And he's like, we got you covered. You're all right. And she says, you know, I call bullshit. Why isn't the mayor having the same conversation with teachers and students? Because teachers and students, and I saw a TikTok where this guy, you've seen that there's a family guy who's like first time, he's like,
01:08:28
Speaker
No, not my first time. It was this guy, he's he's hiding and he's he's hiding because they're they'll tell him that what they tell kids when there's a school shooter, you hide, run or or um you run, hide or or, you know, last thing you want to do is stand still. I forget. I forget the three things. But they basically say run the fuck away. And is that is that what they're telling CEOs?
01:08:57
Speaker
ah That the lady are the ladies arguments is like why aren't you telling CEOs? Run hide and try to get the fuck out of the way. Oh, dude CEOs are scared. Oh Actually, if you're especially if you're a health care Oh, yeah, it's ridiculous, but it's like it wasn't it's like Not just not that you know, they're they're treating CEOs with kid gloves While school shootings are happening or or I see what you mean You know what I mean? they're So. They're making more, they're they're making this. More of a fuss about CEOs with, let's be honest, most CEOs could afford their own private security. You're scared, get your own private fucking security. You're not a must guy. Donald Trump got it. Everybody else got it. Baseless has got private security. do Do you think over time that we've allowed these CEOs to have this perception, like theyre they had this like savior complex? No, I think they think they're all better than we are.
01:09:56
Speaker
Well, that would be kind of a savior. well and But i I say CEO, and I'm talking about that 1% CEO, like Jeff Bezos and, you know, a CEO that's where you're making any more than 5 million, fuck any more than a million a year, you're a bad guy. You know, off the off the quote unquote sweat of somebody else's back.
01:10:25
Speaker
You know, even up to a million, there's a real gray, thin line where it's, okay, I'm part of the people. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, but, but I'm also, I'm preemptively striking. Well, I know you're going to, cause I know you're not a big, you know, a capitalist guy, but like I said, I have a buddy.
01:10:53
Speaker
instead of getting to that point where he could be making $3 or $4 million dollars a year. Yeah. He just pays employees more. He four times in the same kind of business, you know, i he he he does a, he owns a warehouse where they, they they they ah it's a trucking company. So for the people in the warehouse that are loading the trucks and unloading the trucks all day long,
01:11:20
Speaker
If you were to go to a different company, you would make four times, ah three times less than working for his company. Yeah. So an equivalent. And he's like, I'm still making like 200 grand a year. My employees, my lowest one makes 90 grand a year. And that dude's a fucking janitor. You think something like that will work wide scale? Uh, I don't see why not because Brian Thompson, the guy that got shot,
01:11:49
Speaker
was making $10 million dollars a year. So i want to i so back back to Brian Thompson real quick. So we all i you know where you would why he was up that early, right? Where he was headed. Yeah, he was going to a conference. He was going to an investors conference. You know what's funny is that investors conference started on time. Can you imagine the text they got? ah Brian Thompson won't be showing up today.
01:12:14
Speaker
but yeah And then they just go about well, let's let's be honest his face it I don't care. I don't care if you're fucking Jeff Bezos or if you're fucking you know Joe Schmo You're replaceable they did Yeah, they didn't have they didn't even have the respect to give them a moment of silence. or Let's start this little late. Wait, maybe we should rethink this. Wait, hold up. right um Well, however, at the time, I think they thought it might have been like random. Okay, that's that's a good possibility. because you know So they're like, oh my God, this is a tragedy.
01:12:52
Speaker
but It's just a random, it's New York, people die all the time. But it was like one a one of their days. I don't know, I just find it weird. Yeah, I know, I agree. I find a lot of shit weird. You got to remember, those investment meetings, ah i you know um I started to watch that land man. The oil companies make like $2 billion dollars a day.
01:13:17
Speaker
um So if like Billy Bobs Thornton character in that if that dude dies, they're like, yeah, we'll just replace him with somebody else They don't care as to extremely handsome American by a hunks if the choice was the fuck Are you watching? passion halerlin um Be honest which comma but oh yeah If I have the devil, you know, I'm going common ah um Yeah, I wouldn't trust Hillary Clinton fuck ah but she's She's one of those greedy capitalists that I just don't yeah, she you know um not i'm just so call luigi bug hey buddy what's up buddy oh I'm not saying i'm not all i say is i mean I'm not saying it. I'm just saying God, we're ah dude. We're gonna wake up tomorrow. We're both gonna be canceled Yeah, yeah, that's the least of our worries
01:14:16
Speaker
fifty Sorry, Glick. Good luck, Hillary. Come on down. You won't make it past the gate. I love you, Mexico. Fucking asshole. Yeah, I can say whatever. I love you, Mexico. Is it been you got to reflect mine?
01:14:37
Speaker
and There's like within like 15 blocks, there's like six cartel members. Go ahead. Come on down. I dare you. Do you think there's any ah positive change is gonna come out of this and And I say that because I don't I don't see it um You know, okay, so I will say this I think In time Yeah but well werementals It will be incremental incremental You know little by little it's you know, this is one Act of a person
01:15:17
Speaker
so And I'm not condoning, but if it happens more often, things will change. However, there was a there was a ah CEO that said one thing the day before the shooting, then after the shooting, they went, ah, you know what? Never mind.
01:15:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I remember what that was. Oh, shoot. I remember what that was. I can't remember what it was. but um um it was It was something raising the price, no. No, it was about anesthetics, the price of and anesthesia. If you went beyond what the insurance company thought you needed, they wouldn't pay for it. Right. And the the next day they're like, nevermind, we were just kidding.
01:16:07
Speaker
so Yeah. So no, now we don't know why they actually changed if it was because of that or because they thought about it werere like, okay, this is a bad idea or whatnot. Well, it is because I wait i doesnt i do like to think that the pressure from that had something to do with it. Well, you and I even discussed a while back where for years the medical profession thought babies couldn't feel pain. So they didn't have anesthesia.
01:16:35
Speaker
And that was up until the eighties. Yeah. So, so, and, and there's all the, there's these stories of people going under anesthesia, not having enough and being awake during the entire thing, but not being able to say anything. So it's one of those, it's one of those things. It's like, who's to say how much anesthesia is enough for anybody? it's it's an as soage the and No, I agree. The expert. no one and and his own um can easily get it wrong But usually get I don't think they usually get it wrong. I think there's six i this success rates a lot higher than usual. Oh, I agree. But so good. There is that. He just type that price.
01:17:30
Speaker
right the What's that? Oh Jesus what what What did it say? He says be honest to hunky guys If you had a choice between Hillary Clinton and Kamala for the night for a hot passion Who do you vote for guy can Kamala say hot to spit on that thing? that Apparently Hillary can't bad My misogyny is is I gotta say, i go I have to go with Kamala for the simple fact she is younger. She's younger, yeah. She's younger. She's not a terrible looking broad. Hillary just looks like that thing's got teeth. She's the wicked witch of the industrial comporter. She's got Johnny Bench in there, I'm just saying. If you get that reference.
01:18:21
Speaker
um
01:18:25
Speaker
No, but like, Uh, if you, do you think we will see a copycat? Do you think we will see an actual copycat? If if nothing changes, do you think, I mean, I'm not saying to hope, maybe not as complex. Yeah. More of a, like, like this dude, if this, and once again, allegedly Luigi did it, but if he did.
01:18:54
Speaker
Methodical planning. So, all right, I wanna go back to the reason why I don't think it's a terrible thing. I think, i all right, one, because he I think he, allegedly, this is just my my speculation, I think he did it all on his own. He planned it on his own. Oh, great. He did all the leg work on his own and all that. I don't think he had any help. Planning or anything like that? i think Yes, I think if he had had help,
01:19:25
Speaker
I think it would have been apparent by now. And I also think it would have been. um ah Some message would have come out or I think some like a manifesto, you mean some kind of manifesto order to let us know this is a revolution, an actual like group thing, but I don't know. OK, not even a essentially a centralized group, either like a like a like three people. Yeah, a three or three or more people. But I mean, right. Yeah.
01:19:55
Speaker
ah that Well, you gotta you gotta do a shout out to his family this dude's got like There was a photo that was released of Luigi with his family And you know four by eight cheetah, you know, like a little way Polaroid style, right? yeah Yeah, everybody barely fit in the picture, dude.
01:20:17
Speaker
from like 20 feet away. We're talking like 60, 80 people and everybody shut the fuck up when they were looking for him. So shout out to the family for knowing when they shut the fuck up.
01:20:31
Speaker
And fuck you McDonald's. Did you see that the McDonald's employee that called it in did not get paid the reward because they called 911 and knocked it offline?
01:20:44
Speaker
That's fucked. Right? So there was a, I think it was like 10 or 15 or 20. I don't remember what the reward was, but it was a substantial reward. And you got a McDonald's employee sees Luigi walk in go and go, that dude looks familiar. I think that's him. And made a call. And, um, Oh, my phone's ringing. Oh, just don't answer me. No, I'm not going to. They made a call.
01:21:15
Speaker
They made a call and because they called 911, not the helpline, they do not get the money. Is that, is that like some kind of fine print shit that the FBI, I think so. That is, i say phil that's some janky ass shit dude, because let's be honest. If this dude, if the person that called it in wasn't thinking about the money, they wouldn't call it in at all. Like fuck them.
01:21:44
Speaker
But if you're working at McDonald's, you see 10, 15, 20 grand reward? Oh, yeah, I'm calling, too, because I can use that money. Yeah. That is that's kind of fucked up. Right? That's some scammy-ass shit. Right? Hold on a second. Hey, Lazy. Hey, we're going to drop the link. We're going to drop links down there if you want to pop up real quick. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Lazy, come on up. Hold on one second.
01:22:16
Speaker
I just dropped them. You texting your, your kids are calling so call me later. like They keep blowing up my phone. but ah It's one of those things. It's like, if this, like for instance, if if you're working at McDonald's, you're making minimum wage. You can, you, I,
01:22:41
Speaker
I worked at McDonald's when I was a kid, and I made decent money, but that was in the fucking 90s, you know? um Would you have called and reported them? If you knew who it was? For money? For the money? 100%. Really? Even for the money? For 50 Gs, dude? When I'm working as and for minimum wage? 100%.
01:23:10
Speaker
I wouldn't what I would I don't I don't think I would have turned them in We'll see Kid break what is go Yeah, take a break real quick and I'll be right back. Oh, we're gonna take a break. Oh I don't have anything
01:23:42
Speaker
Let me load something real quick. So, um, chit chat.
01:23:50
Speaker
I know I downloaded something. No, I didn't download it yet. Sorry guys. There was a, oh, you're going to play something on there. Perfect. Perfect. Little sunglasses at night, which is what Louise should have been worn. We'll be right back.
01:27:38
Speaker
I'll wear my sun down in the night I'll wear
01:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, those sunglasses at night. I like that song. I like that version. That is by Corey.
01:28:38
Speaker
That's Griffin Rock cover.
01:28:43
Speaker
We are back. Let me go ahead and switch this back over to. scar i didn't Yeah, I didn't plan any. I really didn't plan any breaks for tonight. Unfortunately, I had to yell at my kid. you No, you're fine. good this is ah this like i mean This is kind of an impromptu thing. It's the holiday seasons going on. so We didn't plan too heavy. like god I haven't put out a mini review in two weeks now. Yeah, we're busy. Holidays are always busy, too. Well, you know sometimes life gets in the way.
01:29:21
Speaker
um you know Brian Thompson had plans, so I got in his way.
01:29:28
Speaker
ah
01:29:32
Speaker
i Hey, um, if you don't want, if you'd, oh, good. Yeah. Hey man. What's up buddy? What are your thoughts on Louis G. Matt Gio?
01:29:50
Speaker
Nobody's easy that enthusiastic when I jump in. What? I was trying to look at. Normally it's like, oh, Jedi's here. fuck yeah We've been rambling on for an hour and a half. So, you know, it's nice to have you guys around about We're talking about Luigi Mangione. Is he folk hero anti-hero or is he the bad guy? Oh, I have no input on that You don't you're afraid to be canceled not know you That's fine if i just show the ceo in New York
01:30:26
Speaker
Oh, the dude that got shot. Okay. Okay. Hold up the shooter. Okay. Yep. Okay. Now that it's all making sense. Okay. this yeah He smells what we're stepping on. I like how after that happened, every other company took all the information about their like border director CEOs off their company websites. They're like, no, no, no.
01:30:52
Speaker
We're not going to be next. They said all their social media accounts to factory settings. I'm just saying, McDonald's announced that the McRib's going to be year round now.
01:31:05
Speaker
They're like, you know what? i Side note, i had I had one of those a couple of weeks ago where they went away and I got i got a the McRib sandwich that we're all you know used to. And then the whole thing was in a big puddle of barbecue sauce.
01:31:20
Speaker
It's like, it's like they poured like a half a bottle of barbecue sauce on that. It was ridiculous. hate's swim i They just go like full on salt bay, but with barbecue sauce,
01:31:34
Speaker
it was nuts. Oh no, but it's like, when when it comes to, I still maintain that this should be a hundred percent televised. Like the Johnny Depp trial and they ever heard trial in the, in the,
01:31:49
Speaker
an OJ trial. I agree 100%. Because so many people are going to tune in. The problem I think is gonna rise why they won't do it comes down to one simple fact. A lot of shit's gonna get brought out in the public that a lot of these companies are like, nah, we don't want that out of public. And there I agree. And I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that the judge is married to a woman that is tied to healthcare? Wouldn't that be a bias? It's so hard to take you seriously when you have a lollipop in your hand while you say all your points. It's just too hard. It's just hard to take him serious.
01:32:37
Speaker
as as any other absolutely serious If it's true that the judge's wife as connections to the healthcare industry, I think it's possible that the defense attorney could bring that up. Yeah, they should actually. if i don't I don't know if it's true, but that's what I've heard. you know The problem when it comes to ah social media. Getting your information off TikTok. TikTok is like where else never wrong. TikTok is never wrong. I'll die on that.
01:33:12
Speaker
you And AI is fake. A.I. is fake. but But... Say nice things so you won't get blocked. Yeah, we're not worried about that. We're untouchable. We're we' are the Kid Rock of podcasts. Oh, shit, no. Yeah, unanswerable.
01:33:41
Speaker
Cause we don't give a fuck. We'll still keep going. We're not going to apologize for something. Cancer culture is a made up controversy. Cancel culture is if you're apologizing for something you said, then you're weak. Own it and be like, yeah, I said it. Well, not necessarily. Sometimes people say wrong shit and they should apologize, but 90% of the time it's bullshit.
01:34:05
Speaker
I've I think I think if you're if you're too much of a was when you hear somebody apologizing for something that you know, they genuinely meant they're just trying to avoid being cancelled then it's like that's a bitch move like just Oh, yeah, you said if you really believe it and a lot i think like I'm sorry if what I said hurt somebody's feelings in any capacity like no you meant what you said and you don't give a shit I You know, I have more respect for somebody who will stand by their principles, regardless if I agree with them or not. Stand by what you sit here and waveiver back and have a good reason for saying what you said. I'm not saying that. Die on that hill. Yeah. First thing that comes to your brain necessarily. But like, if you're saying something controversial that could get you canceled, if you have good reasoning behind it, stick to your reasoning. Yeah.
01:34:54
Speaker
And if so and if you if you are proven wrong, don't be stubborn and just concede. Yeah, don't agree. I'm wrong. I'll be the first person to say I'm 90% of the time I'm wrong. But I'll die on that hill until I'm proven it different. You're stubborn.
01:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, but but once I realized that I'm wrong, I'm like, oh. Yeah, but if you're clearly proven to be wrong, you will be like, yep, I clearly didn't have all the information. that That's how I am too. like I will admit that I'm wrong, but just prove why I'm wrong. That's all you got to do. Exactly. Just like any argument. That's how it should be. You shouldn't be canceled for having an opinion. You should be canceled for saying stupid shit and never backing down, even though you're dead to rights. Oh, you shouldn't even cancel that. You should just be made fun of. but either way, sometimes I think the stupid or privileged in this country. Yeah, there's a lot. don Let's be honest. We got to be a stupid title people. Um back to to Luigi Magión.
01:36:03
Speaker
Blaze brought up something uh earlier and in a hundred years, how does this cat get looked back on?
01:36:15
Speaker
I think in the next 100 years, there's going to be so much other shit that won't even be registered. That's a well good point. That's a good way to look at it. OK. 100 years. you Look at the last 100 years. No, but like mean if if this changes society,
01:36:32
Speaker
the point I'm making is there's no way this changes society. You don't think? No, not at all. Even incrementally?
01:36:41
Speaker
If this was the first time, yeah, this is the first time it's a CEO, yeah. But how many, like, how many, how many school shootings, how many mass public shootings, like, why would this one be the one that's the one that stands out? Because CEOs are finally getting scared for something. Yeah, but that's still, I mean, if anything, if you look back at this time period, it's how they almost assassinated a president president yeah exactly like that's gonna stand out way more than this don't get me wrong this is yeah but I don't even know that cat's name
01:37:16
Speaker
And it hasn't even been a year, but you still know what happened. You still know that, that thing, that Trump fight, fight, fight. the minute He stood up after getting shot with the blood roll down the secret service all around. That's going to be a lot more iconic than some CEO from a healthcare company. getting Not that it's good or not that it shouldn't be like reviews. You're saying in a hundred years, this is a blip on the radar. Not even a blip, not even a blip. Okay.
01:37:44
Speaker
i can see that in my opinion i mean i could be very wrong maybe this is well the the problem started did the next like culture i i don't know but i don't think so I think it matters in the sense of like a historical dialectic that it'll be a part of something that evolves over time. Right. It'll be ah it'll be an element in the story. Yeah. It's just like it's one light paragraph. i Don't get me wrong. I'm not like looking like I'm not like dismissing it out of hand or anything. I'm just saying like no in historical, when they're looking back, and even 20 years, okay, 20 years, there's going to be so many other things going on that this will be
01:38:27
Speaker
mentioned but it's not going to be like a highlight well yeah let's let's be honest i mean this could be even if it this this starts incrementally changing the health care policies which i doubt it this will be the agreed but if it did if it does would be the this would be the flame or the the striking of the match of change yeah but as you said there's a 90 chance it won't be and And the problem with today is but people people's attention span can only be measured in nanoseconds.
Media Influence and News Cycles
01:39:04
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. That's that's another big factor that's changed over the years too, because like nowadays the new cycles are so so just boom, boom, boom. You got it you gotta be quick.
01:39:16
Speaker
i mean you know, even a couple of decades ago, they lasted way longer. Like, like something big that would happen would be talked about for weeks, months. Now it's like, like even the Trump assassination attempt got like he it was list maybe a week and we were onto something new.
01:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, maybe a week, depending on which news source you were looking at. But like, ah great dad no but not that's pretty crazy. Like a modern day, almost successful assassination attempt was just glossed over after a few days, basically. If I think, if, if I think if the people who attempted the assassinations were ah some sort of stature in society, I think it might've got your two her headlines. I think it's the no name that just came out of oblivion. And then.
01:40:03
Speaker
the rando dude yeah I think I think because of the media's coverage, the way they perp walked the gentleman and the fact that this has become a whole ah high profile court case. I think it is definitely going to linger longer than the agreed. This is I agree with what Blazer would talk about earlier. This is this generation's OJ. Kind of you remember the OJ trial like it was everywhere.
01:40:33
Speaker
that I mean, some of the jurors went bankrupt because they were on the jury for so goddamn long, you know, that's quite crazy to think about like, you could be selected for a jury. And because you spend so much time having to deal with that trial that you like the the
01:41:12
Speaker
when you're where when you're on jury duty you're getting paid like six bucks a day or something shit i got yeah i was on I was on it recently over the over the summer and I had to go in for selection for one day. I didn't get on it, but I still got paid for that one day. It was for like $12. Yeah. It's the fact that that that jury, that trial went on for so long, those jury members were like,
01:41:37
Speaker
I mean, yeah they can't obviously lose their job for being on the jury. But at the same time, you have no income. But bills are back at zero. Exactly. That doesn't mean your bills stop, just because they selected you. And I hope, I don't know if they did, but I hope some of them wrote a book or did something to help ah great to gain some of the money they lost. But like and't how long did that trial, I don't even know how long that trial went on for. I just know that. Not sure, but it was a while. It was a long time. Oh, what's that? That's what I'm checking.
01:42:14
Speaker
Oh, let's see. The OJ trial was 11 months. Damn near a year. Holy. That's so long. So the moment $12 a day for a year, you're going to be in the moment. Jeff yelled it in my ear. My Alexa device was telling me. Yeah, that just shows you I'm faster than Alexa. No, actually, that you like said she's not even a real woman.
01:42:43
Speaker
I have that effect. nobody like dev Yeah. So, so, uh, I mean, Jesus, that's, that's insane. The trial went for eight months.
01:42:58
Speaker
So the, the, from the murder to end of the trial was 11 months. So eight months, even though, but you got to remember if you're only making like, let's, let's call it a nice round number, 15 bucks a day.
01:43:13
Speaker
in your electric bills, $1,100 bucks a month. but Yeah, that's just's crazy. but You're not paying that bit of trouble.
Universal Healthcare and Economic Priorities
01:43:22
Speaker
So yeah I got a question for you, Lazy. In your perspective, what what do you think health care should look like in this country? To be honest, that's kind of a tough one for me because I do believe that Um, profits kind of pollute a lot of things. Don't get me wrong. I'm very big and I'm a big fan of capitalism guys, but at the same time, there's just certain things that should not be for profit. And I think healthcare care when literally.
01:43:58
Speaker
people's lives are made or lost on if an insurance company is going to pay for their the procedure they need or not because they find it to be experimental. I mean, it's okay, looking at our country as a whole, look at things that we wouldn't let be for profit.
01:44:17
Speaker
Okay, our police force, no, that's tax college funded. Education, which actually there should be a lot more incentives for good teachers, but there's not. fired on Fire department. like um Like there's so many aspects, we we have a socialized democracy and I think healthcare care actually is a big point of opportunity because It almost sounds like i think I think doctors and nurses should get paid adequately. Yeah. But how do you square that circle with like, okay, well, you can't afford the surgery. So you're going to die even though the surgery could save your life. Like how do you, so ah so so i so I don't have all the answers on that. It almost kind of sounds like you'd be okay with some sort of universal healthcare care as healthcare care is a right. If, and if these other industries also got paid enough, like teachers and cops and fire departments and stuff like that.
01:45:12
Speaker
Well, you can never pay any of them enough if they're going off a government salary. But at the same time, it's like I don't know the right answer, to be honest. I think i think people shouldn't die because they can't afford a surgery. I think I think how I think how much we can pay people is dependent on.
01:45:29
Speaker
on how much tax revenue we get coming in. I promise that we sent to Ukraine, though, if we invested that back into our country, we could have some pretty big impact, whether it's health care or another, whether it's education, health care, fucking anything. Just invest in our own country before you invest in other countries. yeah i so not agree more so So I don't look at the whole. OK, this is kind of getting a bit off topic, but I think and it's an interesting point. I think.
01:45:59
Speaker
that the idea of looking at all these situations as one day at a time kind of ignores the reality that all this stuff is taking place at the same time. yes that's a very And in in there's no such thing as helping us first versus somebody else because the war in Ukraine in the long run does help us when it comes to future complications, when it comes to trade agreements,
01:46:28
Speaker
when it comes to the stability in in Eastern Europe, when it comes to ah not allowing Russia to obtain more power, more land, which would further them controlling more of the oil assets in the world. Because that's basic Ukraine has got a lot of oil, and then they got the you know part of the grain industry. So a lot of it helping our allies in the long run, in a way, does help us. I agree.
01:46:57
Speaker
however Um, if you, if you literally say, Hey, NATO, maybe the U S shouldn't be the only one putting up all this money. Well, not, not every country in NATO because the as, has has has the gp as, they're not equally wealthy.
01:47:22
Speaker
so i and because the U.S. requirements are based on a certain percentage of your GDP. yeah You need to allocate that towards it when you're planning out your budget. But let's be honest, you're asking me to pick up both of them. So if it's a certain percentage of a GDP, so by that we're going to give more money but if you look at the size of our country compared to the sizes of the other countries are money based on dollar amounts but not percentage of what we can afford to spend they have the same amount that they can afford to spend they don't not like okay like we're giving five yeah different well than france's two percent are germany's two percent because we just have a bigger gdp i get that i'm not talking about dollar amount i'm talking about actual percentage of yourirable income that you can play just like anybody else
01:48:14
Speaker
like they should like if you guaranteed 1% of your GDP towards your own national interest, then you should pay it, especially with the Ukraine and Russia conflict, because that's going to affect Europe a lot more than it is.
Geopolitical Conflicts and Resource Control
01:48:27
Speaker
they' That's right in their backyard. That's not in our backyard. They're, you know, across the, so I'm just saying like. Russia ain't that, Russia's not that far from our borders, buddy. I know Sarah Palin could see it from her front porch. It's not that close.
01:48:45
Speaker
Fucking Sarah Palin. You remember her back in the day? I love that. She was a hoot and a holler.
01:48:53
Speaker
But but but it's it's yeah it's not only that. it's you know um When it comes to, it's kind of a glass houses thing. you know Don't throw rocks in glass houses. Before the US starts telling everybody else how to live, maybe they should fix their own ship. or no one's telling Ukraine how to live except for Russia we're just we're just saying hey but particularly great know in art of russia so you know was was they're not anywhere there a sovereign i saw all they're they're a i therere sovereign a sovereign they're a sovereign country it was Russia that invaded them so for for the argument to be well USA is trying to tell Ukraine what to know we're just helping them keep their sovereignty
01:49:41
Speaker
I think Russia, Ukraine is the one that got away. That's why they're trying to get them back. I agree. Yeah, because fucking right now, Russia is under a totalitarian and fucking authority and jackass. It has been for decades. It happens. Putin knows what he's doing, though. That's the one thing. Yeah, he got as much of a jackass he is. He knows what he's doing. He knows how to know is what he's fucking doing. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's best like knows what he's doing, but he's he's he's not to be messed with. Not not fucking propping that guy up. I'm not propping or dissing anybody. and but I think being being a smart bad guy doesn't absolve anybody from being the bad guy. Oh, I agree. No, but part of why I'm bringing up what I'm saying is because, okay, Russia is a pretty cutthroat.
01:50:34
Speaker
country. in general and if putin didn't roll with an iron fist he'd be taken out by somebody else you know what i mean like oh in har like that's just like coldb blooded shit going on there like they don't give a fuck and if putin was slipping or if he wasn't delivering on things his own people would fix the situation before we ever got rid of, you know what I mean? Like nobody in his own country is messing with him. There's a lot of but other powerful people other than Putin in Russia. So we have them are messing with him. I'm not sure if you remember his little yeah girl that got died in the helicopter accident a few years ago. The one person that actually did stand up to him and kind of like um sweat a little bit. Yeah, he got dealt with pretty quick. Right. Well, here's my other question, Blaise. You were you were talking about
01:51:23
Speaker
how Ukraine's got oil and grain and stuff like that. If they didn't have that stuff, would the US be helping? No, if I actually if Ukraine didn't have that stuff, Russia would have anything to do with it. Exactly. I was going to say. Yeah. And then it would be no reason. There would be no reason for it to be no reason. Africa, because let's be honest, nobody cares about Africa. Well, you know, the shit like this happens all the time in Africa. Nobody does shit, but they don't have any resources that anybody wants. Well,
01:51:52
Speaker
actually there there there are precious metals in Africa and there is I mean when you look at like living in minefields you look at it you look at blood diamonds you know I know I agree but that that's all that's a whole not quite apples to apples not quite apples to oranges either The control of oil, it definitely has more, more power than the fucking control oil. That's a great question. That's why the whole, with the situation with Taiwan is also a very hot button issue with us in China, with Taiwan, because Taiwan has all the shit to make all the microconductors micro jes and everything. Yep.
01:52:29
Speaker
And so that's why that's another hot button. Like nobody would ever give a fuck about Taiwan if they didn't have that. China wouldn't care. Now we're like, Oh, they're a sovereign nation and China's like, no, they're ours. And like, there's that other underlying international dispute going on because of all the resources are. It's all this fighting over resources. did so as soon Soon, we're going to be having wars over water. I don't know if you guys realize this, but yeah the fact the fact that corporations are selling us water in the grocery stores,
01:52:58
Speaker
if Soon we're going to be having wars over water. Freshwater sources across the world are being polluted or drained so rapidly that water will be the next major resource that we have like world wars over. And that's that's that's the biggest thing of of climate change and why it's so important. It's not because the weather's changing, well that's part of it, but it's because it's it's part of the reason why we're losing fresh water as as a global.
01:53:27
Speaker
It is a very limited resource. When you think about a planet full of 70% water, which 70% water, we can't use. We can't use any of the ocean water. So it's like all the, feet can there's a way to get the water out of it, but it's not as easy. I do. I do. I do. I do want to, I do want to touch on, I do want to touch on there. I know this is so from the main topic, but I like this.
01:53:50
Speaker
So there is the technology to desalinize water. However, because of the expense of it, we don't do it. but it's one of it's it's It's one of those things we're going to be getting into. We're going to be discussing. Do people have the right to water? Well, in a lot of places you don't like a lot of places like in California, back during the droughts, they were putting up tarps and stuff to collect rainwater. And the government came in and told people they could not collect falling water from the fucking sky.
01:54:19
Speaker
Like how was it? It wasn't just California, but I do remember that. And that was, that's no, you're right. It's probably a lot of places, but that's where I remember. There's a guy I watch on YouTube. He lives off the grid and he he he was talking about how.
01:54:36
Speaker
if If the three of us, you know, and everybody in the network decided to buy one big plot of land and put our houses on it, the government's going to say no, you guys can't do that. However, if you do it as a corporation, it's a different ballgame. It's fucked, ain't it? Yeah. It's it's like we you so over time we've we've allowed our politicians, and this is no particular side, to box us into this corner as citizens.
01:55:03
Speaker
Crazy over and over again. And that's that's that's the thing where Bringing it back on subject where Luigi doing this could be the spark in the health care division and then you got somebody else doing something in in the the ah Different position and you know, and it becomes a chain reaction where Globally we could be doing better okay That is a fact. It doesn't rain in Southern California. That's sad. It's fake. That's fake news. yeah But, you know, you know what I'm saying? It's like, if if you got things happening like low what allegedly Luigi did in different sectors of whether it be corporations, government or whatever, the world slowly changes.
01:56:00
Speaker
And I'm not condoning. The world's always changing. But there is, there is an argument on what, if what's changing at what pace compared to what's not changing. Exactly. And, and the biggest, you know, you look at, of course, there's, there's certain people that are like, well, Elon Musk got $400 billion. dollars There's only 8 billion people.
01:56:30
Speaker
feel fuck that Yeah, let's be honest when you break that up evenly it's only like was like 1,200 bucks a piece um or some weird number but And no, I'm not saying fuck Elon Musk
Influence of Billionaires on Society and Media
01:56:43
Speaker
because of current events. I've always been i Really yeah kind of like you know, I have a love-hate relationship with a dude because I fucking hate EVs with a passion of a thousand sons I love to hate him. I love EVs. yeah I do all the way around everything about him cracks me up, but The dude has like, when he built the SpaceX rocket, the only reason he's got a tip on it was because of a movie. i got more no He did that because of a movie. I know that's odd that he did it because of the fucking space balls or whatever. No, he did it. He did it because of what was that? The Sacha Sacha Baron Cohen movie, The Dictator.
01:57:24
Speaker
Yeah, okay, I think it's something as a space pose, but like he just throws these little random things whenever he created I think the Tesla he put in space The Tesla he put in space on the screen says don't panic which blaze night You watch the hitchhikers got into the galaxy on the back of the book. It says don't panic Do you know I was like I got an idea the dudes he's funny. I I that's exactly. Thank you. He's he's funny, but I mean, and what it and what it is, I was a billionaire. I'd be doing some. Oh, but but but that's the thing at the expense of the rest of us. I mean, how funny is it? Who? What did he do with the expensive?
01:58:17
Speaker
He's he's a union buster. I mean, he's I mean, he he he's not for the, he's not for the labor first. He's not for the working man. No, he has no talent. He fired 80% of the Twitter employees when he got. Yeah. yeah But let's be honest. you know that while talking about like war li do no but Before he bought Twitter, there was a suck they did designed to get fire by day in the life of t Twitter. talk um hold on better and x like doing X is doing so much worse since that though.
01:58:53
Speaker
Like he took the company with billions of dollars and he's ruined it. He's ruined it. No, he overpaid for it and it's just like this true value showing up. I don't think he's ruined it at all. Overpaying for it? Like I thought he was a smart business guy. That doesn't sound smart. I think, yeah, but if you have that much fucker than me, you're going to make some bad decisions. He's got fuck around, find out money.
01:59:20
Speaker
Yeah. And that's not the problem. Because Twitter is basically the social hub. It's not the problem. No, because the problem with I'm not. I'm just. Well, no, I mean, here's the thing. No, I'm saying what I'm saying. We can all agree that money and politics is bad beyond contributes to that. Fucking bad CEOs, fucking Be an anti workforce is a bad thing, but I agree at the same but at the same time it's like but he's funny i don't yeah butt i don't here's my Here's the thing if for in for example before Elon bought water
02:00:08
Speaker
and I call it twatter because i i I don't use it at all. I haven't opened it ever. If you put down, if you put in certain things- I'm a blue guy. I don't even know what that is. If you put in certain things, you'd get blocked and you'd get censored. What Elon did when he bought it, he's like, say whatever the fuck you want, I don't care, yeah fucking free speech, fuck it. Which I actually prefer.
02:00:35
Speaker
I, I, I agree. Oh, but he didn't, but he didn't follow through with that. You, okay. So because he went behind the scenes and there was, there was one post on Twitter that Biden made. They got more than Elon did that same day. And Elon literally went to his guys at Twitter X play, Hey, fix the algorithms and boost my shit. That is not free speech.
02:01:01
Speaker
Like he sits there and he blocks people that he doesn't agree with and kicks them off fucking ex. That isn't free speech just because I didn't like that block you and I love you buddy. But if I owned it, I'd be like, fuck this guy. You know what I mean?
02:01:20
Speaker
Well, then you didn't. OK, it doesn't that then contradict. but I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm just saying that it happened way more before he took over. People getting black happened. Yeah, because more because it is a private company. There's no such thing as free speech on a private company. It's not it's not governed by the Constitution. But it is argument speech than it ever was under Elon. But you literally you literally just answered your own question.
02:01:49
Speaker
With him owning the company, because it's a private company, he'd be like, fuck it, jump the algorithm, I want my shit on top. Yeah. Yeah. but that's that is who you're owning it But that isn't free speech. You're saying it's free speech. And then when I point out that he's doing the same things you guys don't like, then you're like, well, yeah, it's like, well, that that's what I mean. It's like, it's like your principles are flowing. you it's amazing right that fliy floppy yeah this three Under Eli, it is free earth speech. I will say that I will just not say free speech, free speech, free what speech?
02:02:22
Speaker
freer freer freer so so i will i will constantly better than it was i will i will i will is it though Is the con is the con. I will I will double the contents of the city. Then people go. You can tweet people's. Create better content. You're just not blocking the people. It's it sounds like you're too. You're too worried about freaking laughing at what he has to say or post. Then I don't know if it's. I haven't been on Twitter.
02:03:01
Speaker
a lot more significant i know too many trolls on there are like yeah i love you a lot in charge i never get blocked my thing is this my thing is this it's.
02:03:13
Speaker
Yes he is he is quote unquote blocking people and stuff like that but the government is not. If you remember the government was leaning on Facebook and later and other things be like, Hey, we don't like it. Yes. that's where aon's like Fuck you. We're not playing that game. I agree with that. Um, now the government didn't say you will, they did urge or recommend, and they do that for a lot of companies and stuff. And, and I would agree that even before Twitter was bought by.
02:03:49
Speaker
Elon, they they had they had the choice to disregard governmental recommendations or right urges or whatever. um But I think the fact that if the government writes a recommendation or urges a company to do something, I don't think that is in the same ballpark as restricting free speech.
02:04:10
Speaker
They're not making any mandates, not passing in any, any laws. They're not saying you will, or you will be punished. It's like, Hey, we just, like but but once again,
02:04:24
Speaker
Twitter and Facebook was taking those recommendations as verbatim. We're gonna do that. if If somebody says these three words together, you're out. Okay, that's and that's fine. they were where you know They were still making a choice, though. I agree. Elon is just saying, all Elon is doing, yeah, they're just, they okay, and that's fine. He buys his own private company, does what he wants with it. Exactly.
02:04:52
Speaker
and And that was happening before it was released, kind of showed a lot of the government bullshit. Agreed. A lot of the government, but there was no, there was no government. manate There was no government mandate. There was no mandates. There was no no, no, no, no. They're like, Hey, was yo man stop with this bullshit. You can do whatever you want. Like, no, it's it's a, prid quote it's a quid pro quo. Like they were like, Hey, we're not going to fuck with you as long as you don't put out this, this, and this. Or if you.
02:05:22
Speaker
there was a lot more sense of government. side you Do you think, do you think, do you think our government has the responsibility of looking out for its citizens? It does, but now it's the expense of our amendments. Do you think, all right, do you hold on while we're talking about a privately owned company, they're not governed by the constitution. Do you think, do you think that, that if, if a publishing company, because that's basically supposed social media sites are the publishing company,
02:06:05
Speaker
It's no, no, there there there is, there is some, eje there is yeah with the government hills there is, there is some objectivity to win government's past regulations. anymore if If, if, if science, if science comes out and says, well, this, this sort of bacteria called E. coli causes fucking sickness and the government goes out with the EPA and says, Hey, uh, companies, you're not going to sell.
02:06:29
Speaker
like that's what we're doing but instead of like you know ah physical health sort of outcome we're talking like okay so you just the the coli thing okay so somebody says e cola is not as dangerous as you think it will make you sick but you're probably gonna be okay okay maybe that's not even true but at the same time that's like, hey, I'm going to give you my reasons for saying that they should have the reason to say that. And then that's where community notes comes in, community notes will correct somebody and be like, Hey, this is bullshit because of this. And people can choose what they listen to. and well Hold on. Hold on. I'm not talking about so what i'm what what what I'm saying. you want to say What I'm saying is if there are, if there are research studies that indicate
02:07:19
Speaker
that the proliferation of misinformation has a negative effect on society. you think that someone should intervene for the safety of our our citizens. Yes. And people do. That's the thing. People do. If somebody says E. Coli isn't dangerous, there's going to be ten other people being like, you're full of shit. But guess what? Neither side should be banned. That's all I'm saying. i agree There will be an equal an opposite reaction to people saying nonsense.
02:07:53
Speaker
what Okay, and it's that negative reaction that the government is trying to mitigate. Is it? I don't want the government mitigating anything on my behalf. they're not me When it comes to information, this led me let me do my own research. I don't need the government telling me, no, this is false. So ah we're going to ban this. Okay. It's not the government. because Guess what? There's some things in government interest that they ban based off of the exact criteria you're saying. Well, we feel like it's wrong and it's for the betterment of society. So we're going to take away your first amendment, right? So that you can't express anything against what we're saying as our official stance.
02:08:34
Speaker
OK, OK, a lot. let Let me reword this because i'm I'm using government when I really should because I don't. like I was going to say for for the most anti government person I know, let me let me rephrase this. But if there was a. I was at work, a council, it was in a there was an elected council, like a Jedi council. Sure.
02:09:02
Speaker
and And they were using ah data from scientific research on a certain problem, let's say the spread of misinformation. And the data indicated that the more misinformation out there, the more harm in whatever ways happens to society.
Nature of Argument and Subjective Truth
02:09:23
Speaker
Now, this is coming from an authoritative source, people that has gone to college, does research. you know theyre their whole life their The whole life is about you know research data, experimentation. Like a think tank. I don't really want to use think tank because lobbyists have have even ruined that. Now, let's say this this council a you know puts out all this information and they say, hey,
02:09:53
Speaker
don't do this because it'll hurt our entire society if you over a long period of time. Now, in the same vein, you're saying that somebody that is doesn't agree with that has the equal opportunity to come out and also propagate their information saying that the council's OK, I see. Hold on. Hold on. Get deep into the weeds on this one, Blaze. That's the whole point. So when that person or entity is putting out misinformation that ultimately hurts society, I don't see how they have any justified burden of authority to even for people to have the right to say what they want and other people have the right to watch it. I can't listen to both at the same time. Go ahead, Jed.
02:10:47
Speaker
What? No, Jeff. No, no, go ahead. Can I go and say what you're saying? I was just going to say they have the right to say that and all the people that. OK, so they put out, you know, their their research and people are like, nope, that sounds like bullshit or whatever. They have the right to rebuttal them. They have the right to the conversation. That's the important part.
02:11:11
Speaker
i think everybody great by I think everybody has the right to the conversation. I don't think everybody has the right to have a valid argument. I don't think every... And that's for people to discern for themselves. You can't just tell somebody, you know what? This person went to the University of whatever and this person just went to community college. Okay, well let's let's say there's two valid sets of arguments or not valid just two sets of arguments it is for the people to decide what is the valid argument which one holds the most weight which one okay so if they have all these facts and the other person's like nah that just sounds like bullshit okay well any smart person should go with what the research shows but if somebody else has their a counterpoint to it just they might have research that count that's counters what the other person said
02:12:05
Speaker
So and who determines whose side is more valid? The validity of the validity of the research because once again, late away waste saying let me let me put my foil hat on here for a second. Let me put my foil hat on here for a second. Who influences the influencers who watches the watchers? So if your counsel is saying this is bad, who's telling them that that's bad?
02:12:31
Speaker
yes so's influencing them to say so so it depends so again you know becomes a vi like It's who it's It's whose argument is sound that should are obviously come to the top but now But once again, you know, you can't you can't do that because your opinion in my opinion do totally different fucking things and I'm not talking about opinions. I'm talking about fact from not fact. I can say anything with just God's honest determination and say it's a fact that doesn't make it a fact. That's the thing. I agree.
02:13:09
Speaker
bri colors the sky It depends on what time of day and the atmosphere ah situation. Exactly. You know what? You're spreading false information that there could be any color. I'm not spreading. I'm not spreading. Oh, everybody knows that. No, no, no, hold on. Saying that the sky is blue is only true sometimes.
02:13:39
Speaker
sorry But if it, but if it's only true, yes but if they're break but dancing on point were trying to make and no if it's if it's only if it's only true sometimes you can't sit there and take that one fact and make it, uh, jungle blanket statement. whole thing um Yeah. Blanket statement. Yeah. Then that's the problem. but at that point Okay. At that point, you're cherry picking facts to, to fit you make your argument.
02:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, which is which is on which is unrational, which is unrational. It's unrational. Thank you. You are literally making my point for me. that's Yeah. Yeah. And but but that's what I'm saying. you But you're saying, quote unquote, you're what you're saying is you want on Twitter, I want you to be whatever people want. You want you want to you want the prolife the proliferation of unrational thought. Yeah, but because I'm not saying my day is unrational.
02:14:35
Speaker
Ridiculous thoughts that get put out there should be mowed down by rational thoughts. That's the point. If the truth is gonna win in the end, you have to still see the bullshit side of things too. So if- No, I agree. Nothing is definite everything's good. And I'm pouring out one opinion on why some why the thing you said is good isn't, but I have no facts to back it up. Anybody that's reading that should be able to be like, yeah, what a dipshit.
02:15:02
Speaker
we're going with the guy with the ten facts rather than the one opinion run exactly you but the person the polite no that's not what we say i'm not saying i'm not saying go by somebody's opinion it at all i'm saying you go by the that like right but you're talking about what speaking actually to the Facts are independent for people. There's objective truth and there's subjective truth. Subjective truths are personal truths, like I like vanilla ice cream, not chocolate. Fucking you oh a fact, a fact independent from people is, well, a deer exists because they'd be here if we were here or not. That's, that's, that's the, those are the facts. undeniable facts Right. Independent from humans, independent from humans.
02:15:57
Speaker
But from from independent from human subject subject subject. Yes. Yeah. But what you're saying is, is, you know, you were talking about having this council that determines what is bad.
02:16:14
Speaker
you're going to know literally making the argument. No, no, no. That's not what I said. I did not say the council determines what is fact. The science, the science. but is who did two That science has been prepped. Who's vetting those studies that like the scientific. Yeah. Okay.
Importance of Scientific Authority
02:16:33
Speaker
But else years ago, they didn't think there was stuff in our water. trial so they didn't do So, so, so the method, the method is signed by special interests.
02:16:42
Speaker
but method bit of science back that's what i'm saying too the method of c all and all right this is where people need to understand what science is The method of science is based three laws of logic. The laws of non-contradiction, the law of identity, and the law of exclusion. A lot of logical tools that we use as humans are based off that. Mathematics is one. It's also part of STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math.
02:17:09
Speaker
Those are the experts, the authority we turn to when a situation calls for such authority. I'm not saying a council decides what the facts are. We turn to those people that have over time through research, study, understanding science, such as when it comes to biology, Richard Dawkins or Robert Sapowski, or when we're talking about physics like, you know, the Ross Tyson or Steve Carell, or we're talking about philosophy like,
02:17:39
Speaker
Matt Delahunty or, um oh but we can go back as Descartes if you want. But knowing, understanding what an authority is compared to what is not an authority, I think is the problem this conversation is having. Because I'm not saying the council makes up the facts. I'm saying- No, no, no.
02:18:05
Speaker
We as a society would look to the authorities get what the facts are With the council in hand and with the people a general conception and we will come to a decision. Yeah, right? well it the problem with having a Council in general is Humans are malleable. Mm-hmm. I can convey. Oh, yeah. This guy is purple if I really wanted to only know times that i was yeah No, if you were using, if you were using, so, okay, here's another thing. When it comes to convincing people of bullshit, if you understand what bullshit is and understand, like I said, the laws of logic, this also helps identify things like fallacious thinking that causes unrational thought. You can understand what bullshit is and, you know, wave it away.
02:19:00
Speaker
Agree. But the the problem is, is like, if you get enough people, and I'm using the sky is blue method for because it's simple. If you can, if you get enough people to say the sky is purple, then the science said will eventually say it's purple.
02:19:20
Speaker
And if you get enough yeah to say that God exists at one point in time, we had science saying God existed. Exactly. So, yeah. So having any form of, of governing it body to determine what everybody should have to say what they actually genuinely feel. Okay. is highest amendment i I agree. every day I agree. I'm not saying, I'm not saying nobody um I'm not, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to say what they feel.
02:19:50
Speaker
people shouldn't be allowed to think that they're right if they're wrong. Oh, 100% true. Well, that's the problem is the responsibility of the people around them to be like, Hey, the thing you just, you I agree. I agree. Yeah. twitter is now why I do. Instead of just, you know, it's a private, it's a private company. It's, it's in, I'll go in, but it's more free now than it was.
02:20:13
Speaker
i i and i and I don't care. It's like, it's a private. That's like saying, that's like very that's that's like saying, that's like saying Walmart. That's like saying, so that's like saying Walmart will let me go in their store without shoes and fucking a shirt and target. won' Well, Walmart's more freer. I don't care. That's not, that's not relevant martin things like good morning oh are relevantle though.
02:20:41
Speaker
a huge media platform that went from like blocking people or censoring them to. And they still do that. both They still do here and there, but it's still. It doesn't. It doesn't. It's not. It's not progress. It's not is progress. It doesn't matter. Saying saying that X is more free now when they're doing the same shit, but less is not free. That's not the definition. of i'm not saying it's black now is But at the same time it is still a better situation to have more people the thing is is like People should be allowed to say not to go not to go political about it. But when the hunter laptop thing came we've already gone political no but but i'm talking like a but When the hunter laptop came out if you read you wait anywhere you said that was real locked instantly
02:21:34
Speaker
Instantly, Facebook, Twitter back in the day. If you retweeted the Hunter laptop thing, you got blocked. You're done. Okay. That wasn't Twitter doing that. It turned out to be real. You're going to have to show me where it was the government that did it. The Twitter files. The Twitter files. Elon Musk released all that and they've admitted to it since then. Like a week after he bought it and they admitted it.
02:22:00
Speaker
Yes. Okay. I know what you're talking about. And I, I have an objection. What it was, what it was that the government was trying to keep from being released were private photos of Hunter in the nude and other compromises. The New York mine okay so new york Times blocked on Twitter.
02:22:25
Speaker
Stormy Daniels, that was that was a whole different thing rather than Hunter. Like, come on, that is apples to apples. That's not even apples to oranges. That is apples to apples. And Trump got indicted. And to be honest, I have not been a huge Trump fan up until you know lately lately because I was so just, I've always been a Democrat or on their side. I've always been an independent, but I've always leaned Democrat, but I can't stomach them anymore.
02:22:53
Speaker
No, we don't block you, Virgin. We love the comments. We're just arguing. The idea that the Hunter Biden laptop was different than the Stormy Daniels payment is just... I think the Hunter Biden laptop thing was ah was a bullshit controversy that the fucking... Can you say Russian hoax? I swear to God. No, I wasn't gonna say Russian hoax. There was... there was there was There was some things that came from the laptop that did get him convicted on a felon the drugs you know Yeah, all the illegal shit he was doing to me. Yeah, the drugs you the drugs most the time The drugs the drugs and him's lying on a federal This is why I say it's just a bullshit controversy that was thrown in the public. Just it was the Stormy Daniels one though so recently
02:23:50
Speaker
And I really, I don't really like going down this avenue because I think it's, either I think it's, I think it's pedantic, but, but it is petty because I'm, I don't like going in this both sides thing. I don't think when Republicans talk about Hunter Biden, Biden, or it's just, it, it's all empty platitudes because how long do they cover up this Matt Gaetz shit?
02:24:16
Speaker
So I don't think I don't think there's any validity as harsh to interrupt as shit from the middle to the top. yeah yeah yeah Yeah, but my point is the Republicans in the House currently leaned on that corruption as a distracting as as to distract from actually doing real jobs, like passing policies that will help this country is what I mean. They did the same thing with the Russia gate and all that.
02:24:50
Speaker
You cannot. But let's be honest about parallels across the board. But complete devil's advocate on both sides. OK. OK. Both sides do it. Stop. Stop. Stop. And I hate. I hate to be so firm right now. But you're missing my point. Can he blaze out fire though? No. Yeah. Well, I am fired because you just totally missed my point. You guys are saying it does happen on both sides. It's literally I was pointing out. But the fact that we're bitching and griping about it is the problem. That's what that's what that all that is designed for. in i think And I I want to get away from that. It's the magic trick is my point. Because Republicans and Democrats do it, the fact that we sit there bicker about it kind of lends to the problem.
02:25:40
Speaker
Well, but we can't point to a single policy on either side. That's been good. We have to point to the bullshit. That's the only thing that makes the news cycles because what have they done? So there has been some policies that have been good. I have to pee so bad. I'm still going to be listening. I'll be right back. No, you're good. You're good. I got to pee and I need a beer. i think Yeah, let me go ahead and grab another song. Yeah, let's do that. Let's go on break real quick.
02:26:03
Speaker
All right. Let me go ahead and find another song. This this is, this has gone off the deep end and I'm loving it. I know I'm loving it. I'm having a blast. Uh, let's do a little, you know what? Give them the old reach around for me, Virgil. Yeah. While we're, while we're howling and bitching and moaning, we're going to play a little jewels in the howl with the howl. And we'll be right back.
02:27:14
Speaker
Now's the time to raise your voice and let it out
02:28:58
Speaker
Out of the darkness Embrace your catharsis
02:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, oh that was a little. i um So before we go any farther, I just want to make make the. We have went way off base from the topic and I'm not mad about it. We're going into free speech and I dig this. um I have a question. Actually, I want to posit an idea for you in Jedi when he gets back.
02:30:45
Speaker
Time out, yes. I'm back, I'm back, I'm back. That did not come out as clear as I was hoping. Good job, Dick. No, I saved some of these because from from the other things so we could use them because like they just didn't come out as clear. So I have to redo them.
02:31:06
Speaker
So bear with me while I'm doing that. Go ahead. Yeah, so OK. I do think in the age of technology that we find ourselves And when it comes to a public space to talk on online, um, I, I think I, I do hear the concern about free speech on these but social media sites. And I do think that there is an argument for it. So I don't, I don't want to, um I don't want to dis discount anybody's concern about that. Now under our current government, which I disagree with a lot of stuff. I'm sure we can all agree on that. but we all
02:31:44
Speaker
But under under free speech laws, and oh and I can't cite the Supreme Court case, it happened decades ago, but free speech on the Capitol steps. I've always had this idea that for social media and online, that there's what is known, and this is just a name that I've made up, but
Free Speech and Government Influence
02:32:03
Speaker
capitalsteps.gov, an actual site that we as citizens go to and have street free speech,
02:32:12
Speaker
The same as it was if we were standing on the capitals of our cities and towns and capital in in in our federal government, engaging in such free speech, holding up signs and protesting and all that. saying If you want to stand up there and say, fuck the police, literally fuck the police, you can without being blocked, without getting knocked off, without getting um ah with that word, algorithmed, because none of that shit would exist. It'd be a straight up free speech platform as constituted under the Constitution and the way things have been ruled when it comes to free speech in this country. Okay. Yeah. What's your opinion on something like that?
02:33:00
Speaker
but Besides it being ran by the government I understand that is going to come with other complications. I agree with that. But what I'm saying is we take what we want as free speech out of the hands of the billionaires in some way, at least bring it back to ourselves.
02:33:19
Speaker
I see where you're going with that. I kind of agree with you. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Jeff, is that a new lollipop or is that the same one you've been working on the whole street? No, I got um I bought a bag, dude. I'm trying to quit smoking. He should not be. Here's here's the. During during the during the show, I will go through a book and full bag of cigarettes. So I'm trying to curve that with lollipops. I'm just saying these are lung cancer. Nice, dude. Yeah, I'm starting my.
02:33:52
Speaker
ah yeah I guess my point is I don't like bitching about problems without at least coming up with some sort of solution. Okay, right to do so. That's the problem. Everybody should have the right to just say what they think. Yeah. But what we run into problems with these social media sites that are privately owned is these algorithms. We get to choose these algorithms, the guys at the top. So regardless if, it like for X, it doesn't matter if it's more or less now or then.
02:34:23
Speaker
the fact that it's still there. So to eliminate that problem, why don't we have a more collective social media site that's owned by the people and it's governed, actually governed free speech as governed by the constitution. That's a hard, the thing is, is like,
02:34:45
Speaker
twitter all you're gonna get we if we petitioned If we petitioned our congresspeople, our representatives, you know, this isn't an idea that I hear. i Honestly, I i think I'm probably the few that's ever really fucking came up with it, but I think it's a worthwhile idea to bat around. could agree with it more, but the logistics What's. art and the same Yeah, it's going to cost taxpayers money to put a site. tonight that like i get there's logistic There's logistics for any change. Setting it up. That's when it comes to like setting that up. That's not that hard. But you still haven't defined what's clearly something that should be able to be said in which. yeah things i did go i have I did. I did. I did. I did.
02:35:37
Speaker
there is kant There is Supreme Court rulings on what defines free speech. Like you can go on the Capitol steps, protest, say fuck the police, say fuck your neighbors, say fuck whatever business, but you can't you can't threaten other people, obviously. Right. You can't threaten anybody because that's where speech free speech ends. yeah threatening and you And you can't sit there with pictures of child porn or anything stupid like that.
02:36:02
Speaker
things are illegal, though which does not fall under free speech. Exactly. Exactly. But the thing is, they're trying to make a lot of free speech illegal because, like, we saw it with COVID. The whole thing got blown out of proportion. See, now I think covid's a about i think COVID is a bad example. I think it's the best example of why free speech has been limited. Because COVID was, the COVID quote unquote mandates were to help us publicly and they were never ever permanent. And we're we've gotten past that as a society. You can't talk about COVID in a negative light or the the vaccinations even if you would get censored.
02:36:46
Speaker
ah but on capitalsteps.gov, you can, because you can do that now. You go to your city, you go to your city city council on their steps, and you hold up and say, COVID is fake. It is free speech. They can't limit you. But Facebook can. Exactly. At the government, Mark Zuckerberg literally admitted that the government came in and told him, do not do this, do not do that.
02:37:14
Speaker
but if they But that's the government urging a private company that a private company can make that decision with a lot of fucking leverage if it's on the case. OK, I'm not to disagreeing with that, but on the capital steps, the government problem that the government government, most companies are going to save. Am I making the argument or am I making it? Am I making an argument for the companies right now? It's got a point.
02:37:45
Speaker
You're giving the government a cop out because well, that's freedom is that's that's private companies that are doing this At the behest of the government. That's the part you keep leaving out Because I'm not talking about private companies I'm not talking about yeah whats that's You're talking about a a server set up yeah for the people by the people it's not owned private OK, it's not privately owned. It's like if you were to go to your capital steps in your own freaking town, listen, please, listen, please, I will finish. I will land this plane and it will make sense. You go to your capital steps right now. You hold up a sign that says COVID is fake. If the cops come out and arrest you, you have a case against the federal or the state government or city government for an illegal arrest because they
02:38:41
Speaker
And this is already case law. You can look it up and I will find examples for it. The government can't ah in cenor you can't censor you in that avenue because you're on the capital steps. The government, however, is allowed to urge private companies. We take private companies out of the picture. We have a public domain on the on the internet that we can go as as citizens of the United States.
02:39:11
Speaker
and we can hold at that sign. This is COVID's fate. And the moment the moment the federal government tries to censor us, you have a case that's already been argued in Supreme Court that you have precedent to stand on, that the government can't censor you. Okay. I see where you're going with that. Okay. That's basically it. Lazy. Lazy. I saw you had your hand up. What what what what are your points here?
02:39:39
Speaker
Okay, so that sign that you took to the capital steps that they cannot censor you for, if you literally type that same exact sign onto your social media, at the government's request, a lot of these big social media companies will censor you. ah Agree, but what he's talking about, but but but but but you and let me go ahead and clarify for for you i'm not i'm not trying i'm not i'm not trying wait i hold on no i'm not trying to be an asle jetdi i really i understand that is the problem with the private companies i'm agreeing problem i'm saying lets that and that's not even an issue and What I'm saying, okay, let's say I start a social media and I'm not going to listen to the government. I'm not going to listen to anybody. I'm going to let you post whatever you want. If the government steps in, I'm going to tell them to go fuck off. Okay. Now, if you post that, I'll let it go. If the government says something to you, you have a case to sue the government is what plays the same.
02:40:47
Speaker
Yeah, just just like an illegal um detention from a cop or a cop arresting you for free speech or something of that sort. so so for instance Because the government the government can get away with urging or recommending to private companies two censors. And I agree. on their I'm not going to say it's mandatory, but there is a chilling effect. I will concede that. There is a chilling effect to free speech that way.
02:41:12
Speaker
you gone so power the government has is okay something I feel like is being overlooked. Yes, but when it comes to these established free speech laws, when it comes to our public spaces, there is a lot of strong court cases precedent for the citizens. And I'm saying that let's take that power that we do have and apply that on ah on
02:41:42
Speaker
online on it on on the just like example just all here's a good example facebook allows even police forces to have cop facebook pages like Nashville PD has a Facebook page. If they did anything on that page that was against free speech against, let's say some, uh, the cops on that page, uh, censored a private, a private citizen by saying, I don't like you guys. That citizen, even though it was on a private Facebook, that citizen can sue that, that police department for censorship because it's, it's the citizen against the government. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Oh yeah.
02:42:26
Speaker
Yeah, and there's been court court cases that's been one that way because the government can't censor you. Private companies can't. And unfortunately, we have it set up where the government can urge or request these private companies to censor us, which I think is a problem, which is the problem you you are identifying. And that is a problem. That is the government's way of keeping their hands clean and not interfering with the First Amendment, right? i That is their scapegoat. We didn't do it. Facebook did, even though we told them we'd give them all these tax breaks and do this and do that for them, as long as they didn't let these type of posts
02:43:06
Speaker
I agree. I agree. The government is so such a powerful tool for suppressing a lot of things. The government wielded properly the way it's supposed to be for we the people. But we know that's not the case. Well, because we tell ourselves that. We don't tell ourselves that we have power collection.
02:43:30
Speaker
So, um, we do need to recognize that we do have the power as the citizens or whatever we weekend people can sit here, we can sit here in and subjugate ourselves saying we don't have the power of the government.
02:43:44
Speaker
Since we really they are organized and powerful and funded, like the the general population is just a collection of different groups of people yeah yeah and different things like that. So that's the thing. The government is far more organized than.
02:44:00
Speaker
the normal people on social media. So that's why they across, they get results more than like a group of us just trying to band together and get people to join our group. The government already has their PR people in place. They have people monitoring social media, every platform at all times. They they know what's going on and they know how to like shift the narrative. nipping into a bu yeah Yeah. you i doing In a way that's like, don't get me wrong. It's not illegal, but it's like really pretty sketchy the way they do it. And the fact that a lot of social media platforms do play ball. Twitter did write up until Elon bought it too. That's the thing. The Twitter files show all the shit they suppressed. Like he just put it on blast and there was like government hearings about it. Like I have a, I got a question for you, especially you, Jeff, you're going to answer to was that me.
02:44:58
Speaker
Do you think the January 6th hearing all that evidence of stuff was deleted and hidden from the public? Do I think the January 6th stuff was? I think there was too much that was out there, but I think it... Because there's this there's there's this narrative from from Trump himself that ah Jan, all the Jan 6th evidence and all that stuff that convicted all those those people were erased or deleted. Oh, no, I don't think that was. ah Okay. Okay. Good. Good. No, good. Because some people. It was out there. You can see it. yeah I watched a lot of it on Twitter. Like it wasn't that suppressed. All right. Cool. No, that's is I've, I've heard that narrative. I was just curious. No, like with the amount of stuff I've seen from January six, I'm like, that was a huge problem. And I'm not, I'm not a huge jumper. I'm really not. I'm a reluctant jumper.
02:45:52
Speaker
as I'm not, it it is it there's Democrats. The thing is there's too much shit that I just don't feel comfortable with the government having oversight when it comes to basic rights that we should have in the way they they did for a long time. The government had their finger on the scale on every social media platform in a way that was probably inappropriate and they couldn't prove outright but it's just coming to light for a lot of it. I mean- What do you think makes the government corrupt?
02:46:30
Speaker
The fact that they don't, they're not honest unless they're actually like feet held to the fire and it's unequivocally proven. I mean, the fact that we almost had the fact, okay, when you look at something like the attempted Trump assassination,
02:46:48
Speaker
where they had a dude on the most obvious place that any sniper would be on and nobody's like, like yeah, that's probably fine. We'll see what he's up to. Is that is that is that government corruption or government neglect?
02:47:07
Speaker
I think it's corruption. There's no way they're that negligent. I mean, I can't even drive down the road with my believer out without being pulled over, let alone somebody climbing onto a rooftop. Okay. Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. So if it was government corruption, how do you think the government perpetrated that type of corruption? What do you think the government did that corrupted the process that led to that assassination?
02:47:38
Speaker
Well, they knew he was up there. He had been reported by local cops at that point, you know, 45 minutes before he even got up there. And I mean, that's just one thing that's not even taking into account that he had no social media profile. they per They professionally scrubbed his house.
02:47:58
Speaker
Before there there was no autopsy to see if he had any substances in the system. Are you kidding? Everything about this dude's life should have been on full broadcast. Like who's the crazy person that tried to kill a presidential candidate? Nothing. Much likely. It was just so completely glossed over the media. And so about it it's corruption because we're not privy to all the information.
02:48:27
Speaker
like not even. Well, there is something you said about transparency. ah Yeah. Yeah. There's, there is a problem with transparency. I think that does lend a hand to corruption, but just because something is the best way to cover up this corrupt just because, just because there's transparency. Well, yes, but, but what you've said to me doesn't read of corruption, but We're like negligence. Like corruption to me. That's pretty negligent. Yes. Negligence to me. Scream. Like really? OK. So corruption. At what point do you feel it's negligent when like it's like a second parent abuses the child to the point where they're in the hospital? Like, well, he just should have known that last point. Corruption includes a sense of intent. Negligence.
02:49:27
Speaker
can, uh, has more of, uh, an error of I didn't know. So therefore I didn't act. I didn't think this through. I didn't properly do my job. The government knows everything I've ever done in my life, but they don't know that somebody is on it. That isn't true. The government doesn't, the government doesn't know everything you've done in your entire life.
02:49:51
Speaker
might air they might point i might yeah a like they might They might know what they might know about you, what you've already provided them because of law or what you've provided them because of you. Social media posting. social I guess I will pose the same question back to you. What would you consider corruption? If if this could be considered ne just pure negligence, like, oh, I just wasn't paying attention. I was watching my iPad while I didn't know one of them drowned. If this was corruption, it would have to be proven that that the Secret Service in
02:50:30
Speaker
intentionally, not only knew that that person was there, but ignored it for the fact or to allow the assassination to happen.
02:50:42
Speaker
And I don't know. What defend the feeling that you need? This is a government, this is a secret service. Allow it like, okay. They just didn't secure that one, the closest rooftop towards over. And their excuse was that this, it was too steep.
02:50:59
Speaker
It was it was more there was it was more like there was also was like that also, it was also a manning issue. There was, there was a lot of, a lot of issues. It was poor planning. It was negative. Well, if we're going to nickel and dime the fricking secret service, then what's the point of them? Like, yeah I'm not nickel and dime in the secret service. I'm not going to come to a conclusion of corruption unless I have more information.
02:51:27
Speaker
Until then, until then, until then it seems more just like negligence. and which should definitely be like investigated and the proper people like held held responsible. but And should have died if he would not have turned it that way. And I don't care if that's Trump or if that's just like a local state representative, anybody that's under Secret Service Protection and they forget to you know secure the one most important rooftop.
Government Corruption and Accountability
02:51:54
Speaker
That was the closest rooftop to him. I got a question. Do you expect perfection out of people?
02:52:01
Speaker
and their job that's all that's time they it if your job is to protect an elected official He's got to be pretty damn nervous. If you can understand that humans are fallible, then on on also saying that when humans are fallible, it's corrupted, just i don't I don't know. and level of That's a push mistake at that level. No. But you're adding, but see, you're you're and adding, you're adding spec to your former president at that point. Like, you know, he's not, that you're adding,
02:52:37
Speaker
But you're adding the the nefariousness to it without having any like Evidently or receipts or connectivity. Yeah or causation I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just like I ah it's it's it's there's a thin line there There's a line between negligence and and I think corrupt I think there's a such thing as a healthy amount of skepticism and before jumping to a conclusion either or I think that I think the case has to be made for either or. And right now I think the case has been made more that it was more negligence than corruption. I actually have a slight theory on this. um not I don't know if it's a theory. I don't know what to call it. But like, you know what, verly because it happened twice, you didn't die on both. I have heard that. I have heard that hypothesis.
02:53:35
Speaker
However, to get a shot that close and miss on purpose is not as easy as it sounds. Just saying. I mean, i I don't know. My area of expertise when I was in the military. We can tie this back to to to the main topic. Like, the dude had to clear his weapon. We didn't know it was a ghost gun at the time. But unexpected things happen even though you plan shit out. Oh, great.
02:54:04
Speaker
Agreed. And just because those unexpected things happen, I don't think necessarily they're for corruption. Like there's that post hoc rationale that I think is unration. Well, you you got it. You also got to remember, uh, in a situation like with Luigi and a situation of the Trump assassination, everything happens, let's be honest, in a bout of a blink of the eye. And then we, the public,
02:54:32
Speaker
and the government have days to cherry pick and nitpick the shit out of everything. so So there is that thin line between ah corruption and negligence. it's it's It's hard to determine which because once again, if if we're doing 150 miles an hour down the road and I turn the car left,
02:54:59
Speaker
and expected to go right, that's just negligence. But if I turn it left and we flip the car, and then three months down the road, you'd be like, well, this is why the car flipped. I did it in an instant, and you have three months to nitpick everything I did coming up to that flip. I would think that if I was going down the road and I accidentally flipped the car because of negligence, I think that's different than something that would corruptly crashed the car like cutting a brake line. Agree. But once again, it's it's everything happening with a blink of an eye and then having it three months to Monday morning quarterback it is kind of hard. Yeah. i Yes. I think I think Monday morning quarterbacking is probably a problem too. I think people come to conclusions that because they don't have all the information they get
02:55:57
Speaker
that They just want to fill the gaps in knowledge with with speculation. Agree. And then, of course, the speculation of experts versus novices. you know if if i If I'm an expert in you know going back to the car analogy of why the car split, if I'm an automotive expert and then you have something that can't even put gas in the car, you're going to get two different explanations.
02:56:27
Speaker
so now you have that i agree with what you guys are saying to be honest i do but if it is that amount of negligence don't you think anybody in the upper echelons of the secret service should be fired if you can have an i think ah yes people definitely should be held yes people shouldnt be held respond i think so this is lot of people so this is It depends on who's responsible. i I can't say a lot. I can't say a little. i It depends on who had their hand in planning this because the people on the ground working doesn't mean that they planned it. It's the people definitely higher up. But the thing is when it comes to going higher up the chain, when somebody's responsible, that number actually goes down. Yeah.
02:57:15
Speaker
but I get to the top less people are to hold accountable because it's fewer people make those decisions. Like even, even as a field agent, when you look and be like, Hey, isn't somebody getting that? Like I've, I've been out on how many of these rallies I've been covering every fricking. That that comes out. Somebody be doing something over there. All I can really use as an example from my experience. Um, I was a munition strip in the air force. I worked on munitions operations.
02:57:44
Speaker
And there was a lot of things I needed to know as ah as ah as a crew chief, potentials, um unlikely potentials. And I needed to have a good grasp on all that when preparing some of these operations. seems Some of these munitions can't be cross-carried with other munitions and all this stuff. I can plan and plan and plan and plan. And the moment something goes wrong that I didn't plan for, even though I didn't plan for it, I was negligent.
02:58:14
Speaker
I'm still held responsible. I'm held responsible so is my shop chief and probably his boss, but not the people under me, which is a lot more. So I see where you're going with that. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't do it, but I didn't do anything corrupt at all. I didn't mean meanfully fuck up this operation. But because of my negligence, not taking in all the aspects that I possibly can and still as a human, we are foul. Well, you still have to take that consideration as well. Right.
02:58:46
Speaker
I don't think leads to corruption. I don't. I don't i and i understand people's mistrust in the government. I do. ah great i think I think sometimes that mistrust is applied too broadly.
02:59:01
Speaker
and and It is a wide brush of the brain. why you're spain with um However, And once again, this is speculation, from my understanding, the sniper that took out the kid that was doing the shooting was told to stand down. Yeah. Did I freeze again? No, no, no, you're good. Is that me? Actually, no, you're good. I mean, I... That's where the corruption comes in for me. See,
02:59:36
Speaker
I wasn't in the planning room. I don't know what was said, well this is but once again, this is speculation. So yeah, I see where you go. I just, I don't see. I mean, on that particular issue, I don't see how we can get to correction. Now, if we were talking about something like the Iraq war, where there was this big fake fakeness information about weapons and all that, like by the way what's that? We still haven't found those by the way. yeah I think because the public was was was um fed misinformation from our government because of that, I think that that's corruption.
Term Limits and Political Freshness
03:00:19
Speaker
Yeah, i and know I see where you're going with that. Yeah, it's it's a very, once again, it comes down to
03:00:28
Speaker
what Jedi was saying, lack of transparency. However, you you have to you have to look at it. It's like you can't put everything out there because then you're too transparent and bad things happen because you're transparency. So it's a double edged sword. it That's a good point. It is a very it's a very good double edged sword because there has been times in our history where our government has been proven to be corrupt.
03:00:58
Speaker
But there's been times, there's been lots of times they haven't been, depending on what the situation is. But that's the thing. Not every situation is the same. Not everybody's, um, I don't want to see, it's a real glass is half full, half empty kind of it's conversation. it's Yeah. It's and chicken it and egg. Yeah. It's, it's how, it's how, how do we manage a society with the maximum trust and also maximizing maximizing welfare. I have the answer. I have the answer. Term limits. I thought you were going to say 42, and I was going to say. No, term limits. Let's be honest. Term limits. Jeff, you are fucking speaking my language. I've been preaching term limits forever. That would be such a huge personal reaction. did you hear about this, Senator? But it would be there's such a big. It's either a Senator or a Congresswoman.
03:01:57
Speaker
she's literally in a bloonie bin for the past six months yet she's still getting paid to be in i heard some i heard something about yeah that not the whole story but yeah she's literally i've heard about that yeah fucking cuckoo's nest here and she's still in congress term limits would make huge improvement in our whole government would would you agree with term limits on supreme court justice oh absolutely a hundred percent for more than anybody like don't get me wrong i think congress and here's why the judicial system for sure for instance look look at somebody like i can only think of one person well two look at ruth bader ginsburg when she was elected you know what when she brought in like in the 40s 50s
03:02:50
Speaker
No, but when she was brought in 40 to 50s, that's a whole different fucking era until now. Joe Biden's been in the government in his entire adult life. That is not a civil servant. That is a government pawn. It's like, well, okay. Okay. So, okay. Okay. You have i won so much time at the bottom. I want, I want, you, i you said, all right, you brought Biden up and I want to, I want to, when you say term limits,
03:03:16
Speaker
You mean term limits that somebody can be in politics no matter what the position is? No term limits for each position. <unk> Each position. Each position. Because, okay, because with that somebody can be in politics their entire life. Agree. But, but like for instance, if you're moving around and you're elected at each different... You're going to be a Senator? Okay, that's fine. You've got eight years. I just wanted to know what what what you meant specifically because there's something.
03:03:41
Speaker
For instance, ah lowest form of national government is what, senator, right? We're congregating. Lowest form of government is a cop. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know what I mean? like na I'm talking nationals. No, the House of Representatives is still the lowest form. because They're still... Okay, so and they're... Senate has six year terms. Okay. So you got...
03:04:11
Speaker
Even 12 years is a lot, dude 12 years a lot that is I say so you get one fucking term One that you either you either go up or you get the fuck out Yeah, I agree I think that six years presidency stays at four Everything else is six years. Then you either move the fuck up or get the fuck out. I biggest problem with the government is, is, um, you know, look at not to, I'm not bashing either way, but look at Biden, Biden at one point was like having mixing the, the, the population, black, white, yellow, green, put them all together. Not a good thing. Now he's like, we're all in the,
03:05:04
Speaker
You know, when when does that change happen? So once again, you got six years as lowest form, then you got another six years if you jump up, and then you go presidency. After that, get the fuck out. Bring in the new blood.
03:05:20
Speaker
You know, there's a reason that they pay limits to term limits on the presidency and the executive branch. And most governors have term limits too. It's why just the executive branch legislative and especially the judiciary branch are you fucking those lifetime appointments to the judiciary, regardless of which level, like that's outrageous. That's crazy. Get the fuck out of here. No, you can serve eight years, just like the president. And then you can move on.
03:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, well, you in judicial, we could say, because let's say judicial maximum 10 years, you know, just because... ten Well, technically, the president can serve a maximum of 10 years, they just can only be elected twice, but they could finish a term of a previous president. Right, right, right, right. Which has never happened before, but it's one of those things that's like,
03:06:11
Speaker
in 10 years, if you can't get what you're trying to get done in 10 years, you fail. Yes, you got a decade to get something. For instance, but if I got a job, if I get a job tomorrow and then you got 10 years to make a hundred grand and I missed that fucking mark, even by a dollar, I'm a fucking failure. I'm sorry. You got a whole decade to get some shit done and you can't get enough. Nope. Bye. We got to move on guys. Next. three I agree 100%.
03:06:41
Speaker
And you know, they they talk when they have that bill that Elon was like, hey, don't fucking sign this, which him being involved is kind of weird for me. But but it was like they try to sneak things in. I kind of like you. Nobody read it. I do. I did. I did like it. But but they they put up that fifteen hundred page bill And everyone's like, yeah, I'm in, wait a minute, wait, what what's in it? And then Elon talks and it goes to like one tenth the size. it but But if you snuck in term limits, they wouldn't even fucking know until it was done. Oh, no, that one I think somebody pick up on because none of them want that. Well, that's the problem. Once again, it's something that that the problem with a lot of these bills that get passed
03:07:33
Speaker
Is yes, you have the senators and the congress people and you know the big government people doing the work on that But the average joe who it's actually going to affect gets zero say Right except for the elect the person that's going to do it But if they're getting paid off by the oil company or by whoever I want to dress vergil's question real quick blaze and serious question is ex-military. Would you have missed the shot from there?
03:07:59
Speaker
I believe would have. I wasn't a great, I would have not missed. I, um, I, I was, that was my job. I mean, I, I stored, I see overwatch for four years, I stored bullets. I didn't shoot them very much. I qualified every 18 months. So now I, uh, at my job in the Navy was a sniper. So that's I wouldn't have missed because literally I could throw a rock that far.
03:08:30
Speaker
What was it? What was
Shooting Techniques and Media Portrayals
03:08:31
Speaker
the distance? That's all I've heard. It was like 1500 feet, dude. It was super close. Like anybody that had any. It was like a football field, dude. Well, then I then I probably would have hit him. I mean, I mean, i I'm not going to hit that with a fucking Beretta.
03:08:51
Speaker
I iron scope Beretta, I could have knocked the dust off. that's crazy Any at a rangefinder I don't know what that means cuz I'm not a shooter it it actually a rangefinder literally tells you how far away you are I mean I picked that up from the name, but apparently that alone should have been a big red flag to anybody Okay
03:09:19
Speaker
okay real real quick um This beer is kicking it real quick Jedi have you ever watched like a cypher movie you have the sniper right there You have the guy next to him with that fucking mono fucking telescope That's that he's using a range It's a rangefinder, but but if you if you ever seen you ever seen laser levels That tell you the distance. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a rangefinder
03:09:49
Speaker
But that kind of helps you line up your char, right, too, like for if you get, especially if you, because he was using. It just tells you the distance. So, but okay. When, when it comes to a range. Higher, if it's certain distance away though. Right. That's where your range fighters come in and come in. However, at that distance and the curve of the bullet at that distance, I get a shot from the hip. Really?
03:10:12
Speaker
yeah Maybe not I wouldn't have hit it, but I'd have gotten way closer um the thing is when it comes to a rangefinder it literally the reason why you would use a rangefinder is To adjust the curvature of the earth. There's a lot of trigonometry that needs to go into it you're youre for every Uh, a hundred yards, your bullets going to drop X amount depending on what you're using. Well, and that, that's my understanding of it was just to figure out how high up for, to factor in the bullet curving down. Cause the gravity AR 15 does 1500 meters per second. So if it's almost not a factor for you that close then exactly. So range finder and like, like I said,
03:10:59
Speaker
Not a major factor. Now, of course, you ah some rangefinders, depending on the brand and and and model and whatever, they also will show you direction of the wind and so on and so forth. But if you know what you're doing, you can see a flag close by and go, okay, I know what the wind is doing. Like, yeah have you ever seen, you ever seen, um there's a new show out right now on on on Hulu or or Peacock, it's called The Jackal, The Day of the Jackal.
03:11:30
Speaker
ah It's by the guy he was in the the newest Harry Potter films the the the secrets of Dumbledore on our channel anyways he He sets up a pinwheel in front of his rifle so he can see what the that's some serious like I don't even know how the winds going like it's seeing how the wind is working because because and Depending on how fast the wind is going your bullet will drift and It sounds dumb, but depending on distance and and the longest shot ever, the longest shot ever is just over a mile and And that's where you would need
Media Ownership and Public Perception
03:12:11
Speaker
your rain finder. That was where you need the the wind gauge and all that bunch of shit. But for 1500 feet, that's a hip shot. Like if he sneezed hard enough, he could have given Trump COVID at that but distance, right? Yeah, exactly.
03:12:28
Speaker
made hair trump's hair move and so you know but by the way this been fun conversation both of you yes oh my gosh we've hit over the three hour mark I know it's like a fucking Saturday night here. I know. Well, when it's good conversation, I knew that This would spurn or spur off into sperm.
03:12:53
Speaker
i said scott real no i said spn sp That meant to say. sp today
03:13:03
Speaker
No, you know, that, you know, it's good occasionally, you know, especially with a show like Who's Argument Is Anyways, it's that it basically says what the show is. where It's it's a reason for Blaze and I to bitch at each other. I honestly want to do this because I don't think like the mass media is covering this properly. I think i I think I think so. And here's just my my perspective on it. pay it Okay, so.
03:13:33
Speaker
I've been paying attention to news for quite a long while. And I remember news stories where, oh, this person is so sad. you it was night in This with five kids got rejected for insurance, or blah, blah, blah, and she's going to die, or but bla blah, blah, blah. It's so sad. Now that a CEO gets freaking killed, the media is like, oh, he had two kids and a wife, and blah, blah, it was an unnecessary death. And like the whole time we've been saying this, people Yeah, insurance like is implicit in unnecessary death. Like this empty platitudes that the media is playing right now. We're not going to cover that. Literally, yeah, ignores the real fucking conversation. big Well, once again, why? Because billionaires own the TV network.
03:14:23
Speaker
Yes regardless of the CNN or fucking Fox. Yeah, I'm not making this. I'm not making this. mainstream I'm not making this liberal or right wing. No, no, no, no. I agree. Media as is is media is corrupt. There comes a
Wealth, Morality, and Societal Impact
03:14:39
Speaker
point. I will agree with that. That is straight up corruption. There comes a point in somebody's that there's a dollar amount. I don't I'm I'm not.
03:14:51
Speaker
Claiming what the dollar amount is, the but there's a dollar amount. Once you hit that mark, you become a bad guy. ah yeah you you know if If you're chasing money your whole life and you start hitting it big, you you start hitting Occam's Razor. You're going to fall bad or good one way or the other.
03:15:12
Speaker
That's not Occam's razor. Occam's razor is a law of personal. I know. I was using Occam's razor as a... Not an Occam's razor. Sound good to me. I don't know what you're talking about though. No, Occam's razor is most likely what it is. You're talking about like a false dichotomy. Thank you. That's the word.
03:15:36
Speaker
um or just a dichotomy? Well, think of it this way. If the chicken is sitting on a pitched roof, an equal pitch, and lays an egg, the egg's going to go left or right. The secret service will let it be if it's on a pitched roof. Yeah, exactly. But you know what the real answer is? What does physics say? Exactly. Occam's razor is physics. No, that's not what I'm saying.
03:16:05
Speaker
No, Occam's razor is is insane the most likely- Physics! Physics will tell you why that egg rolled one way or the other. Right. Because the clay would look to the left. No, but the thing is like- Because of Kim Khun had his razor- Fucking space-time continuum, man!
03:16:25
Speaker
No, but it's like once you hit us, like, I don't think if you if you get a million dollars tomorrow, you're not going to be a bad guy because you're going to probably be burned through that. But once you start hitting multiple billions, you're going to lean toward what's going to make me more.
03:16:46
Speaker
And good or bad? Like, there's there's more bad that you're going to do to continue that money coming in than good.
03:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, yeah, I think, I think, um, any wealth, but it's, when it's, when it starts being hoarded is a bad thing. That's kind of the way, I mean, I kind of looked at, okay, this is, this, all right. We live and in, in an economy that takes money to live. Extremely. When that resource is being afforded by a few people, it makes it harder on the majority of us. And I'm not saying somebody shouldn't be wealthy. I'm not saying people shouldn't have a life that reflects their hard work if it's meritorious. The thing is, right now, as it sits, it's not.
03:17:44
Speaker
It's excessive wealth, it's excessive 40. Excessive wealth. And that money sits somewhere and it's not available to a... It's not helping anybody. It's just sitting there. Exactly. It's not or or or not... You're not donating to charity. You're not helping anybody around. You're not growing your own wealth at the expense of what you could be doing.
03:18:07
Speaker
It hurts the economy worse because that that wealth isn't being rotated. It isn't moving. is It doing anything. Yeah, but you got to remember most most most people with multi-billions of dollars, it's not like they can go out and I'm going to spend a billion dollars today. No, they don't have it because they have it. They have it tied up in things, of course. They have they're extracting money from money. You could pull some of your wealth out and actually put it to good use and still be rich as fuck. yeah i think yeah you hundred We should all get rich and we'll buy Twitter. 99% of that and do other things with it and still be richer than most people while still helping everybody around him. Same with Twitter. You know, there's a website called spend Elon's money.
03:18:59
Speaker
I know we're i england iss not on on that website. No, no, it literally it literally gives you all these options and gives you a bunch of money. You can literally use every single NFL team and still have plenty left over to do it three times. I bet if I went on fucking X and fucking talk shit about Elon constantly, I'd probably be shadow band or fucking
03:19:28
Speaker
Oh, dude, if I own it and you did that to me, I do it, too. I'm like, fuck this guy, please. That's what I'm talking about. It's free speech on your. But once again, no, but once again, it's like, yeah, but this guy's just been an asshole troll. Just like when we get we get trolls on here, we just ignore them. He is. I promise he was ignoring every troll out there because he is the ultimate troll. He is. I will give him that. He is a troll. is He is a fucking funny.
03:19:58
Speaker
I am. I'm not actually, you know what? I'm less mad at him, more mad at the stupid people that fucking fight. Yeah. there' There's, there's, there's something he said about the people that blindly follow everything he says for, for verbatim. And they're like, well, it must be fucking through, Elon said it. Yeah. No, that's, that's ridiculous. There's and not a so single famous person or a politician that I think I think is Mechavilling Machiavelli approach. He's using big words again. Machiavelli. He's using big words. Machiavelli. Machiavelli. Machiavelli. I think his approach. Excellent word. I think his approach is is possible. But here's the thing. Once you get to the point of somebody like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk, can anybody really tell you different? Exactly. I'm like, fuck you. I got all the money.
03:20:58
Speaker
but So yeah whether you like it or not that's so no but want you whether you like it or not, you're going to be surrounded by yes men. Okay. Okay. like its let's Okay. let's see you can i yeah you not if i got tavo mu money tomorrow that and blazed tell me to stop doing let shake Let's take that to its logical conclusion that a rich person comes so rich and no matter what he does, that's wrong. No matter how many times he's told it's wrong. He's going to ignore it. You know what happens with that? They get shocked eventually or something potentially there. You know what I mean?
03:21:34
Speaker
like this is why that's why if I ever get Elon Musk money, I'm hiring you to tell me to stop doing stupid shit.
Human Nature and Wealth Influence
03:21:41
Speaker
Like this is what I mean, like when people get youtube ris i would hire to. And they were and they were and they were to and they were to the point where they're too rich to be told they're wrong and they even though they are in there and they ignore that. There is a huge problem with somebody too many. yeah went And then when and then when somebody takes the violent act like Luigi,
03:22:03
Speaker
luigi people have a hard time swallowing it no hard london didn't shoot anybody to get there they have a hard time having sympathy for the c no and and that's the thing like you know for instance i'm not a smart fucking person i know that i do some things very well i do most stuff mediocrely however if i ever become so rich where i'm like am i stupid i'm calling this motherfucker and be like bling am i fucking stupid he's gonna be like yeah don't do that dummy so you
03:22:44
Speaker
Y'all don't know me. I mean, I could get corrupt if I got so rich. I don't know. That's the thing. I've never been that rich. yeah and that's the big is i You i will never know. No, hold up. hold up i would hope I would hope that I did. And I would hope that I would stay to my principles.
03:23:05
Speaker
but we are human. We are found. We are corruptible. I'm not saying situations can't pressure me to make the bad decisions. All I can do is, you know what? I don't think I would know. No, but you gotta remember, you know, if you start out like, if you start out fucking dirt, fucking poor,
03:23:30
Speaker
And over the years you bust ass and you hit a winning streak and you fucking make $20 million dollars tomorrow. Hey ah Virgil, I heard Trump has the same problem.
03:23:45
Speaker
cheapha Cheap shot. Cheap shot. That was too easy. That was too easy. Yeah. I'm disappointed. That was too easy. yeah However, we did, we did the the one day, uh, when Tony was still here.
03:23:58
Speaker
on the network. created I posed the question if Elon said I'll give you a billion dollars I can do to suck and finish, but nobody's ever going to find out. A billion dollars? A billion dollars, but you got to suck and swallow. Oh, nobody's ever going to know. Are you going to do it? I would. I would. I would honk to on that shit and I would tell it would tickle the paint to baby. Come here, baby. Fuck. Yeah, I would post it on the next. You know how much you know how much good I can do with a billion? No, I wouldn't.
03:24:28
Speaker
that's it. That's a lot of money. Um once again, you say that but if I show up with a check with your **** name on it, I'm like, I got a billion dollars. Your name on it. Get on hock to it, boy. I would. Wow. I don't know. This is where the conversation always devolves when it comes to the high amounts of money. What would you do? is so universal. i'm just saying everybody's got price moneydd yeah i mean I'm I think just I blame the lottery industry on that shit. I'm just going to blame Jeff. It's all Jeff's fault. Blame it on me. Everybody else does, fuck it. Blame it on rain. Blame it on Jeff. God damn it. I'm like Trump on that situation. Blame it on me. Everybody else does them. Luigi's got us. We're going to ban you from Twitter for a while. Yeah. He got the CEOs on the run.
03:25:25
Speaker
what they What Virgil said, look, I'm honest.
03:25:32
Speaker
That's when you made that sniper. Oh, oh, was it? Yeah. Yes, it was 10 minutes ago. yeah But it's one of those things is like. A billion dollars, you never like, do you realize? ah If you may, I forget what it was, if you made I think it's a dollar an hour. It'll take you like six months or something like that to make a million dollars. It'll take you 36 years to make a billion. It's crazy. You know, that's an interesting, that's an interesting, like if I asked you, can you can you imagine what four is? You'd be like, yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. You can't imagine a billion.
03:26:21
Speaker
Can you imagine 300 billion? Can you imagine 1 trillion? You can't. no this is not this your this is how that's words this This is how redundant we have made our system as a society. Agreed. Yeah, because you can't, until you're put in that situation where, let's be honest, with $2 billion, dollars you can pretty much buy anything you want.
03:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, literally anything. They're they're. And an Elon. Yeah. OK, you can't buy CNN, but maybe. No, no, no, no. But but. But look, but look at Elon. Elon is the richest man in the world. He's buying politics. Vladimir Putin is. Yeah, whatever. Actually, I think you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. He's like, oh, no, I'm not the richest. This one, he was acclaimed for like the third time, like he got to like over 200 billion.
03:27:21
Speaker
like Yeah, but but when you think this is why this is why I think Putin has the state's money. is This is why he's more evil than Putin? Yeah, because he's starting to buy fucking governments over in Europe now. He's investing money into politics in other countries now. Boy, he hasn't been for years. Why wouldn't you? But where's his loyalty then?
03:27:44
Speaker
and Does anybody question that? Because he he's an international business dude. He's going to fucking put money wherever they're. there but yeah he but as an international business person. He's on a made up doge fucking governmental council to give advice to our government.
03:28:02
Speaker
why was this see even if you think you want to talk out against corruption you're looking at it right now in the face no no but but well the difference the difference is he's literally he's literally saying he's spending how much on one walk when money talks hey no no that's bad i know i agree i agree but and why would you say amen to it
03:28:34
Speaker
No, but because, because when you think about it, like, uh, what's his name? Bill Gates. He's just as bad. He's terrible. He is. He's horrible. Do you know why he's so rich? Do you know why? they made those no so He it's not even that. He stole that fucking dance program a lot.
03:28:58
Speaker
ah Watch the movie Pirates of Silico Valley. okay light's called fly a he stole He stole a program, but do you know why he's rich off that program? book program but What program talking about? yeah up with keep patented okay nice His copyright deal was ironclad. Every single computer purchased by our government. You have to buy a copyright. Add what on it?
03:29:27
Speaker
um oo operating system Microsoft. Exactly. And then he was made rich. He was made rich off our backs.
03:29:38
Speaker
No, not just RBACs. Licensing agreements is what made him filthy rich because you had to every, okay, let's say you have a corporation with 3000 computers. You need to license every individual workstation that has Microsoft. 100%. We're not 100%. Microsoft Word and Microsoft, whatever the fuck. It's all licensed individually. That's brilliant. Like unheard of before he did it.
03:30:05
Speaker
Well, not all that, like, but it's at the point where this dude needs to calm down because he's talking about we need to shoot stuff into the atmosphere. We need to shoot the atmosphere and cut down all our trees to prevent global warming for a minute. Bill fucking Gates. But you guys. ah But no, no, no, no, no, I never line with Bill Gates ever. No, no, no, no, no, no. But why align with any billionaire? Even if Elon Musk doesn't have the same ah agenda that Bill Gates does, his agenda is still just as bad. It is really weird when normal people. It's the lesser of two evils though. I don't play so hard with filthy wrists. But why settle for anything? We're on different waves of the whole life spectrum. Because it's the world we live in. We make it the world we live in. Yeah. I agree, but there's always going to be good and evil. You can't deny that.
03:31:02
Speaker
good and evil doesn't exist. Good and evil is what we put good good and evil or labels we put on actions people do. I mean, okay. I see where you go with that. It's class once again at its core. I agree. yeah Yeah. Yeah. It's like you can't say there's no such thing as evil because uh, you know, let's be honest. Hitler was not a nice guy. I can say, I can say Hitler's evil just as much as a hurricane is evil, but the type of evil, the how it happens, how how do we let that evil affect us? There's evil, quote unquote, that we can't control, like weather pattern, well, in a way we can influence it. There's influence. salt ge and and and then And then there's that type of evil that we allow to happen because as a society. Human nature can be good or evil. Like weather's not gonna be evil. It's just gonna, weather does weather.
03:32:01
Speaker
human nature. Human nature does human nature. Every intention try to eliminate certain groups of people from the earth just obliterate them. That is an evil intent. Yeah. It's like anything comes down to intention. But that goes back to the Thanos. That goes back to the Thanos technology. But at the same time, technically an evil guy, but he was trying to do good. But well,
03:32:27
Speaker
sure too but but but At the same time Jedi and I think a lot of us humans filled to realize this everything we do Good or bad is Nature we are part of nature. We are natural beings. Yeah, you can't you can't just observe even observing changes but chase yeah Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Yeah, there's there's no such thing as being a Jedi's identity. Oh, shit. Oh, there's no such thing as being object. Even even the conversation we have now can affect everything else because our thought pretty good. Ted Bundy. Technically evil, but mainly just misguided because if you put him towards evil people doing the same thing, it could be good. Ted Bundy is as evil as
03:33:20
Speaker
Adolf Hitler or as evil as a hurricane or tornado? but Once again, no, you shake your hands. Hold on. Hold on. yeah You can't mix in natural events from nature as evil. that You can't. We are. let's say We are nature. That's my point. No way. Jeff, hold on. Hold on. Jeff, we we are a product of our material environment just as much as our climate is. Agree. and And here's why.
03:33:53
Speaker
Something you do today. I don't I don't believe cat either Jedi Okay, but here's the thing here's the thing Something you do today by cutting down a tree single tree can affect nature Mm-hmm, and if you cut down enough trees, you're gonna get higher winds in that area which could create tornadoes and Still not by nature and human will as the same.
03:34:31
Speaker
you mean know For the most part, and for the most part, I kind of. So is it, is it, is it human will, i is it human will? Didn't mean to kill them. It's just nature doing nature. So like a a dictator
Nature vs Nurture in Decision-Making
03:34:45
Speaker
from a country like Hitler intentionally burning people in ovens. That is inherently evil because you know, that's probably not a good thing to do. That's. Yeah, I agree. I like so hurricanes. It's just doing that.
03:35:00
Speaker
A hurricane comes about from material natural processes. Adolf Hitler, Adolf Hitler, as bad as he was, is he became that he could have been a fucking sho eyes be he became that because of natural and blow he became that from natural and material conditions. I'm not, I'm not saying that hurricanes are worse.
03:35:29
Speaker
or better, or he's worse or better. but might have read But my point being is our actions as human beings is just as natural as a hurricane. They are. They are. I can see that. I can see that argument. can see that argument. um can see here Then how are they not?
03:35:52
Speaker
are Are we a product of nature? Don't we live in the natural world? because we're oh natural almost now don't things as don't don't don't things don't this that happen well Don't things that happen to us through our lives? not built out physics As you stated earlier, physics is important. A hurricane is based on weather patterns, physics, all that.
03:36:16
Speaker
It's going to happen because we usually have a broadcast about like we can move. The hurricane is not going to stop because we don't want you to blow our house away. But Hitler made that choice. He didn't have to kill anybody. He may. Yes. Yes. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Go ahead. Try to kill somebody is not. I agree. I agree. And not floating I'm not. Killing is a natural thing.
03:36:45
Speaker
but he um answer I have a question. In terms of i have a question no rules, that is pretty fucked up to do nowadays. I'm not assigning moral value. That's not what oh no that's not that's not my argument.
03:37:00
Speaker
do you think and And this is a stretch, I know. And I'm probably going to cancel for saying it, but I don't care. Do you think, in Hitler's eyes, he's Thanos?
03:37:11
Speaker
because technically what Hitler was doing was to try to make Germany better. Yes. In Hitler's eyes, what he was doing was the what for the greater good. That was the good thing to Hitler. so So he is Thanos.
03:37:27
Speaker
I don't care about Thanos, but my point is because Hitler came to his conclusions and his actions from the experiences that influenced him through his life. i've done That is his natural, that is his natural, that is his natural as the climate affecting hurricanes. That is natural, no.
03:37:49
Speaker
yeah look like it would be natural yeah How is it not natural of it we' are natural? We are natural beings. We exist in nature. Nature, the material world. Yeah, but and nature follows the rules of nature. A hurricane is a rule of nature, a tornado. We follow the rules of nature. No, there's a rule that says we have to kill thousands of people for no reason, or millions of people for no reason.
03:38:13
Speaker
if there's no matter There's no rule, but there's process i mean that will there's processes that will drive a person to eat. Natural would be like, if you're going to kill something, it should be to eat it. That's the natural part. No, no, no, because no you can't you can't look at that that way because orphphaier plow of wait if you plow a field, you're killing thousands of things just to grow flour. Yeah. So you're you're you you are the Hitler of that field. ah Jeff's not like wrong. I mean, Jeff's not wrong. you know no you miss so like so why Okay, okay. micro here of Life, life, life is a, life is a emergent process or emergent property from processes. Life, life, no matter what it is, vegetation or or animal, there is no intrinsic value. We assign those values.
03:39:14
Speaker
And we assigned the value that what Hitler did was bad. We don't assign the value that what a hurricane does is as bad as what Hitler does.
03:39:27
Speaker
But we still recognize that there's there's some badness there. but they had this thing you each of those and this ah the intent behind it each intent by nature each Each of those badnesses or results of processes, our brains, what we think are conclusions we come to are results of natural processes.
03:39:49
Speaker
Okay. But what we not distinguishing between you and anybody else Hitler. Well, agreed. There's people I have not exist. That is it. I'm not, I'm not saying like choosing and using this, did it affect him in a, in any way? No, he just did not like them. That's different. A hurricane is going to hit whoever's in its path. It is emanating.
03:40:15
Speaker
But right there a huge we we actually as humans because of what we look at the planet Exactly because of like deforestation and global warming creates more and more hurricanes I Got a question for you Jedi Look at yourself right now who you are how you became that individual All those experiences in your past that built you to be who you are today. All the influences that that that made you who you are. Did you have control over there over those influences? Did you have control over who parented you? Who birthed you? Who taught you in school? Did you have any of those choices? No. You are a product of nature. You're a product of your environment.
03:41:13
Speaker
there that has happened to people make you who you are. But wait, doesn't that go into the same argument of nature versus nurture? it's nature it's it It's not nature versus nurture. It's both. It's nature and nurture.
03:41:28
Speaker
I think they go hand in hand, but at the same time- They do. I think they do because nobody's born racist. Hideous living conditions and not taught to respect an ounce of human life who become the best people and vice versa. The people that are literally like born with a silver spoon in their mouths, had every advantage in life, had loving parents, even if they're rich, whatever that turn into sociopath. It can go either way regardless.
03:41:56
Speaker
of what you're they used to say back in the they used to say back in the days when when when you were born the gods tossed a coin it's good point the coin or where they were going to be good or bad it's and i and there there is that going back to what you were saying about free will you have a choice every single day do good or bad But what is but what but what what influences that choice? What gives you that choice? what What parameters do you have to choose? Well, put it in a simple, put it in a simple fact of if I'm walking down the street and I see a dog, I have a choice to kick or pass that dog.
03:42:41
Speaker
you do but if You do, if you made that if you made that choice once, do you think if you were to have the ability to go back, could you choose to make that choice differently?
03:42:57
Speaker
you could And that's the, yeah you that's the human in a hurricane. yeah because hurricanes so With the same amount of force, but we can't go back that but that fucking ah yeah go back to a different choice than next time. Let's say you come across a dog in a similar situation. The first time maybe we're an asshole and kicked it. You don't have to do that second time. You're like, you know what? That one's cute. fuck means's gonna do that But that initial choice in a fall initial choice is what influences your next choice, the experiences you got from that first choice. Correct. Like if you hit the first dog you ever meet bites you, you're scared of dogs forever. You didn't sit there and kick that dog and then thought, oh, I'm going to decide to be sad about it. So the next one, I'm going to kick. I'm not. You didn't make that conscious choice. It evolved in you. I see where you're going with that.
03:43:57
Speaker
I mean, I do see where you're going, but it does go, there's some people that feel bad about, they keep doing the same shit that makes them feel bad. There's some people and some do, but where does it, why, why do that? have Why do they have natural events like a hurricane? Everything that happens on ucane the universe, of garless everything that happens in their universe is because of natural process.
03:44:23
Speaker
Even us. So you're saying, what just to clarify for me, what you're saying is we don't have a freedom of choice? We don't have free will, no. So you're saying if you're driving down the road and you come to a T in the road, it's predetermined which way you're going to turn? Yeah. How do you figure? It depends on how how you feel. Where's that feeling come from?
03:44:52
Speaker
back but the straightest You're wrong, Blaze. You're wrong. You're absolutely wrong. i'm gonna be think i think i i I think you have a point. i think I don't think you're nailing it on the head. i think i think that I think that you boiled it down to making two choices down a road kind of does prove my point because we don't we don't know what... when we got When we get to that point to make that choice, what brought us to that choice?
03:45:24
Speaker
Do we have any decision on what brought us to that choice in a fork in the road? Well, for instance, you talk about van life. Okay. Yeah. So you have no predetermined destination. You're just driving down the road full tank of fucking gas. You have no idea where you're going. You come to a fork in the road. You're saying it's predetermined that you're going to turn left instead of right or right. my left Yeah.
03:45:53
Speaker
See, i there I can't find that. There's neuroscience data out there that says that our choices we make before we actually initially say them or make that choice. No, I understand that concept. I understand that concept. However, I think each... I think are i think our want to think of ourselves human wise, outside of nature,
03:46:23
Speaker
um uh muddies the waters when it comes to this conversation because we don't we don't want nobody likes to nobody likes to hear that they don't have a choice i get that exactly exactly but we are a product of our environment we're a product of our influences we're yeah but okay neutral i mean go ahead to put it even simply i technically have a choice even another sucker or smoke is biggergger What makes me choose one or the other? You say it's predetermined? I literally just had a cigarette and I'm going to have another one. That's how much you're frustrating me. No, no, no, no. no me you made that choice because of You made that choice because of your chemical dependence.
03:47:11
Speaker
The same way because I literally just had one two seconds ago before I looked at this one just now. Yeah. But, but like, how often do you smoke? Like a pack and a half a day. So our bodies have this routine. We have this comfort zone that we, that we don't choose. Did you choose to want to smoke that much day? Every day.
03:47:37
Speaker
you choose us at all honestly
03:47:41
Speaker
You choose to smoke a pack a day. Yes. Here's why. It doesn't matter about the why. It doesn't matter about the why. The why doesn't matter. The why doesn't matter. The why doesn't matter. The why doesn't matter. Let me finish. You choose to pack a to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. Whatever your psychology is that makes you want to smoke a pack a day. You chose today or whenever to stem that. You chose that.
03:48:16
Speaker
I'm gonna suck on some lollipops. And somewhere during this conversation, you get agitated. You totally forgot about that. No, no, no, no. Because when I met my wife, we I chose to quit smoking. It's her once. It's about her once. You don't choose your once. Yeah, I do. I won. No, you don't. You don't choose your once.
03:48:38
Speaker
You don't choose your wants. I'd smoke a pack a day and some days I'll choose smoke like half pack or fourth pack. Some days I choose to smoke more. But like if I been if I chose you. What led to that choice? What led to that choice? What led to that choice? I gotta pee. I'm listening. I'm here. I'm listening. What what led to that choice? I'm smoking a pack or or or part of a pack. or You will. Any choice.
03:49:06
Speaker
You're free will. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. There has to be a reason why you chose something. Well, yeah, there's reasons that influence your choice but but you can still go against the okay. Okay. And many people live. You can go against peer pressure. I agree. Okay. Just like the alcohol that has been in years, they choose their drink or they can all of a sudden choose. Yes. Can you go against your always you can go every time I quit smoking. I go against money. How do you go and go? How do you go? How do you go against your want when you're only weighing another want? What do you say that again? Say that again. Explain. OK. OK. Break that down for me like I'm fine. I want to smoke a pack of cigarettes. However, I also want my spouse to know that I'm not smoking so much. So I'm going to smoke less.
03:50:04
Speaker
Yeah, because you kind don't care about somebody else and you're putting what they want above. Yeah, it's about wants. When are you choosing this want? Okay, but then when you talk about- I see where you're going with it. Hurricanes don't choose to kill anybody. They're just doing hurricane shit.
03:50:23
Speaker
You are really stuck on this hurricane thing. they when he says that it's the same night jenna is no what he's saying is no oh yeah Just like hurricanes are doing what hurricanes do, we are doing what humans do. Yeah, but ah hurt a human can actually be like, you know what, I'm going to give up smoking because I know it's bad for me and I want to be here for my kids. yes Because people do that that's i want as i because because if you look at nature, we we have more of a sentient existence than a hurricane. We do have a little bit more thought than a hurricane, but those stop those thoughts are still influenced by nature.
03:51:09
Speaker
We are humans, we live in a natural world. That's like saying there's no such thing as a good deed though. Yeah, because it because nature told you to be a good person. You're diminishing all of free will. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not diminished. No, but that's what I'm saying. He's saying he doesn't believe in free will. I'm not. I don't believe in free will. You should. Why? That's the question we're trying to get to is why? Yeah, why? don Why? We haven't. Whether you believe it or not, we haven't. How do we have it? How can you do that?
03:51:45
Speaker
A show me how we have to prove it. Because I can choose to go eat like three gallons of ice cream or go eat something healthy. Like I could choose. And how, and how are you choosing? Are you choosing that by what you have? Are you choosing that? are you choosing that? Are you choosing that because that's what you have in your house? Are you choosing it because that is what's limited to you? You're asking about the fact that it's beside the choices you make, but that doesn't take away the choices that you have to make. Your choices are limited what is available to you. They are.
03:52:26
Speaker
Well, in today's society well honor um all choices are limited to what nature provides you. But there's still choices. That's what makes them free. Yes, you can still choose to eat healthy or eat like shit. I'm kind of on both sides of the fence here. So I'm not. I don't understand. OK, because you definitely have the choice. If I can choose if I can choose what flavor of ice cream, I can choose what flavor ice cream I want.
03:52:55
Speaker
and my restrictions are whatever. whatever Um, then i damn that I lost my train of thought. If my, if my choice is dependent on what is available to me what free will do i have when i'm only limited if i'm only constrained if if i'm only if i'm only constrained to the choices presented to me there's no freedom there yeah there is this why there's no freedom
03:53:33
Speaker
you got joy's not and all the same but's not freedom Why is that not free? You got 31 fucking flavors. You get to choose the one you want. You wanted ice cream. Because because your limited freedom is unlimited.
03:53:46
Speaker
but there are not unlimited places. I don't see me choosing dog shit over ice cream. No, I'm taking this, I am taking this to the logical conclusion because we were talking about pretty well. It's the extreme conclusion. Okay, but let's say there's, but that goes back to if you narrow it down to two choices, left and right, chocolate and a vanilla.
03:54:11
Speaker
you still have the choice of chocolate and vanilla, or like a right. But you're limited by those two choices. And you're limited? not That's still limiting. That's kind of what you mean. flavors and still. Does that mean, if if you have the choice between two flavors and there's other flavors out there that you don't know about, like strawberry or pecans. That means that, yeah, but okay, but if you don't know about it, they don't exist to you. Exactly. Then what freedom is that?
03:54:40
Speaker
How is it not free? That's my point. own You're only limited to what nature provides you. Agreed. I know. I agree to that. You're giving me a goddamn yeast infection. That is not my choice.
03:55:01
Speaker
Why would you have a yeast infection? I don't know. That's like saying somebody has told me I had. That's like saying a person has a choice when they're pregnant. There's no freedom of choice. There's no there's no free will. There's choices led to them getting pregnant. So no nature. Nature is led to them getting pregnant. Well, no fucking to do it is what led to get pregnant. Just like nature. like Just like nature led to that hurricane.
03:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, but the hurricane didn't decide if it was going to kill anybody. It just happened. No, it didn't. The hurricane was going to happen. Do you think you got ridiculous hurricanes out there just like, fuck this guy? Boom. But so like but if you give a kid and that killed kid becomes Hitler, you didn't have a choice in that either. here's it If you had the choice to mitigate the effect of a hurricane, would you make it?
03:55:53
Speaker
Most people do. They can leave or barricade themselves or do the proper steps. OK. But that hurricane, so that hurricane, that's a choice, right? That you know, what the hurricane, going here the hurricane is a given. That's going to hurt. It's going to hit your fucking house. You have the choice to stay or get the fuck out. yeah Yes. And there are no other options. And we know and we know through and anthropology and human history that murders and evil shit happen.
03:56:24
Speaker
Right. OK. People choose to do that shit. Nobody's. You don't choose for If I point a gun at you and I pull the trigger, I chose to pull that trigger. Exactly. OK, here's OK. Here's another question. Do you think morality? Do you think so a per ah do you think morality leads to happiness? No, I don't. I think it can help facilitate happiness.
03:56:53
Speaker
OK, I don't think it leads to it necessarily one to one ratio. no The reason why is because one person's morality is different from somebody else's morality. OK, do you think morality is something somebody chooses? Or is it something that they're taught? No, morality is taught. It's much like racism. It's taught.
03:57:13
Speaker
So if morality is taught, i hold on, if morality is taught and I make the moral the moral decision to kill and make, you know, like Hitler did, then am I a product of nature or a choice? See, I think morality can be a choice, but at the same time, yeah we make choices, but choices don't. Who do you, who do you think taught Hitler to kill?
03:57:43
Speaker
We taught who? Who taught Hitler to kill? History. Society? So you're saying he lived in a corrupt society? Because no, no, I'm not saying he lived in a, I'm not saying he lived in a corrupt society. I'm saying we live in a society that understands that killing is a thing. Like, like just like lions kill, just like tires kill, just like fucking whales for food.
03:58:14
Speaker
hitler didn he to all them people for food i'll tell you that do do you think that that a lion protecting its it's um i don't know what they call a squad of lions but it's a pride a pride of lines is protecting its pride to kill i reason he only do him and first food and okay in hitler was killing for protection who is in his mind that to you was kill okay see we Yeah. the or is he your ha He was taught who is out through his life that he his life with experience and being taught, he thought killing all the Jews was for protection. I'm not saying he was right. I'm saying in his mind, he was doing what was right. Sorry. We're talking about Hitler. I got to throw up the cancel thing. He got to throw it up as many times as possible. We can say it's wrong.
03:59:15
Speaker
And I will agree that it's wrong. But in his mind, in other Nazi minds, it was right. Agreed. Nature nurturing, which is the same fucking thing. I hate that dichotomy.
03:59:32
Speaker
Because all nurturing comes from nature. We're all a product of nature, is my point. Yeah. But but the the but what I say, nature versus nurture,
03:59:44
Speaker
Nature is like you're born you're gonna do this you can go on Nurture is I'm going to teach you this this and this and is it yes that is comedy speak and Okay, okay, and so when we teach her offspring nurturing whatever when we nurture offspring We're teaching them from our experiences of nature Don't know because don't stick your finger in a light socket because electricity is bad That is nurture, because in nature they... That is nurture, because nature says... like because Because in nature, if we as humans... I've never had as well a tree frog, that's like a slow tree frog in the goddamn outlet, okay? Because that's not in nature. Yes, but I've seen three frogs fry themselves in my house, so... It could be an electric eel, my point. Well, not like that. It's like, it's it's... If you put it in the the tying of the shoes,
04:01:03
Speaker
I'm talking about not just the genes, but what we learn. Just like animals in the wilderness, a lion and its cubs, the cubs learn from its parents what to do and not to do because of safety and security and blah, blah, blah.
04:01:25
Speaker
yeah No, I don't believe that because because I don't see I don't see the lion having the sex talk with this cub. They're like, this is how you do it. You just go do it, dude, because that's nature. Yeah. It's in it's nature because it's instinctual in us because we're a part of nature. Right. It's instinctual. It's something we've evolved because evolution is a part of nature.
04:01:56
Speaker
right but it's i don't understand how you guys are arguing that us humans are somehow detached from nature i know i'm not saying we're not all species humans are the most detached from nature but we we we are on a conscious level because we have we have we we we we have conflated we have conflated our instinct for survival for intrinsic value. Wow, you're such really big fucking words, it pisses me off, but I can't do ah that. No, but like, I go back to the tying of the shoes.
04:02:41
Speaker
You're not born knowing how to do that. You have to be taught. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You know, that's, you know, I love how you brought that up because I'm going to tell somebody did it first. You're right. Somebody did it first, but I'm going to, but okay. So I try to teach my kids how to tell us, tie their shoes the way I type.
04:03:02
Speaker
And my my wife and her in-laws didn't like that. And they wanted my kids to learn how to tie shoes. They learned how to tie shoes. And there is some different. I know that fucking feeling. OK, so definitely. know who drives me yeah it it it But the difference doesn't matter. It's the fact that those those differences were taught. Right. There's differences were taught over time.
Instincts, Choices, and Free Will
04:03:29
Speaker
And that's nurture, but that's a part of nature because that nurturing is for more nature. We're a nurturing species that is our nature. I agree. hey I agree. But, but there is something to say. There's something to say about. You're trying, you're trying to say apple juice isn't from apples. It's not. It comes from a jar.
04:03:58
Speaker
i play it a fucking drious right time because society put it in a jar but naturally a jar wouldn't happen thank you thank you for proving my point jeff but once again you do have i i can't get over the fact that you're saying we don't have a choice but Yeah, I agree, Jeff. um we okay we have it's big of my head we have We have choices. I'm not saying we don't have choices. I'm saying those choice those choices those and choices. Those choices yeahriatory those are predetermined choices. I could disagree more. i Yeah, I gotta disagree with you both.
04:04:45
Speaker
That's it what is it that's the beauty of a show like this because as much as I just had to i do the past hour I haven't I haven't heard an argument. I haven't I haven't heard anything other than we have choices for the argument for free will Hold on. Let me get Neil deGrasse Tyson and and and And actually he actually he makes a good argument with me. So it's it's fine. Look him up. Oh i i earnestly wish i had that dude's dumb i actually i'm actually appropriating actually i've actually i know no I've actually heard Neil deGrasse's argument on free will and he would agree with you. Yeah, but as smart as that cat is, he's not definitive. he's not ah
04:05:41
Speaker
Now, I didn't say he was. He was not constrained by certain parts of the brain which are related to empathy and social relationships due to his upbringing and genes and under an undeveloped limbic system. See, that is a product of nature. He didn't choose to have um ah ah brains that didn't relate to social relationships.
04:06:09
Speaker
Like he didn't like it was fine. Yeah. No, it's not fine. I'm not, no, no. I, i okay. Because I'm, yeah because I'm saying Hitler didn't have free will does not mean that he didn't. do that and He chose to be a dick. He just, just like, just like, man just like our cars break down and we don't choose when they break down, but we choose to get them fixed or not. He chose to be a dick.
04:06:38
Speaker
No, but if you he chose to be a dick in the sense that he was presented with the choices that he had. But you still still have a choice. I don't know, it's pretty hard.
04:06:52
Speaker
um mean ah person only has you posttion of baskin robins a person can only make choices that is presented to and they're only presented to them the experiences presenting them with the opportunity those things that are learned is only on But once again, if you simplify it, like take it down to a brass fucking tax. If you walk into fucking Baskin-Robbins and there's 31 flavors there, regardless of what's there, what's not, you're going to make a choice on what you're getting. You're saying that's predetermined what you're going to pick. Yeah. You never know what you're getting when you walk into a Baskin-Robbins. You never don't know. That's my point. You don't know.
04:07:44
Speaker
you don't you have a you choose what you you don't choose you don't know what your choice is going to be yeah just you you make ask robins do you let the just just because you make a choice and you're getting just because you make no I try every sample and then walk the fuck out because you make a choice doesn't mean that's okay that choice I don't understand how you don't control the choice though. That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe my pee brain doesn't. When did you control your choice to light a certain ice cream over another one? I tasted it. That's why they give out the free samples. Do you control your taste buds? What tastes good or not?
04:08:28
Speaker
no but okay but wait wait wait wait i have an issue with this too but no that's not even the same because because you're going by your point wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait So then I have a choice of that 28. But, but which one do you ultimately choose? Strawberry. Every fucking time. Okay. Do you make that because why do you make that choice? Because I like strawberry. Okay. What made you like, when did you choose to like strawberry? Wait, what?
04:09:20
Speaker
za ma you but make freedom of choice i can choose where i say and he he did make a choice to click on the and i could have just been here in the child mean nowa like no i came to show my dumb face to tell you that you're fucking wrong is the stupidest argument and it's straighty of the play but why did you make that true because I wanted to have some fun. And even if it didn't go fun, I could tap out at any point and just do something else. But it was a choice every way around. I measured it out too. I thought about it. I was like, do I want to come on this stream or do I just want to watch TV or do I want to play a video game? I had so many choices and I chose you guys. I agree that you made the right choice. I'm not disagreeing with that one. I had a lot of choices tonight and I chose to hang out here but like that's not predetermined based on nature that is nurture the fact that I know the kind of conversations I want to jump in on and you know what I mean like that is that is nurture because I didn't always know that certain channels aren't gonna be fun and some are
04:10:30
Speaker
So I'm just saying, I'm just shooting holes right. Yeah. We made a choice. We made a choice to have this night. I don't separate nurture from nature though. I think, I think nurture is part one of the same, but I think that i think there's a thin line I think there's a correlation. I'll agree with you on that, but I don't think they're the same. I think nature and nurture can be very different things. There's certain things that are completely in people's nature to do, but they know that they're wrong. So they don't do them.
04:11:00
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I know I can punch a baby. That doesn't mean I'm going to do it. Exactly. Especially if you're playing with them and they're crying. Fuck that baby. But you're not going to punch it because your nurture tells you not to punch a baby. Your nature tells you to fuck a baby. How do you know? How do you know you've made a choice without knowing every single potential possibility? I knew every time my kids argued.
04:11:29
Speaker
Every time my kids argue, I want to punch them in the face. I don't because I choose not to. There we go. OK, but that's that's that's not what I need to hear. That's not what I asked. How do you know you made a choice?
04:11:42
Speaker
based on every single possible. Most 99, I would almost say 100% of people don't make their choice based on 100% of the possible outcomes. They focus in on a few that make sense to them that are actually relevant. And that's what they go with. So that's just ridiculous to say. No matter what choice you have, you don't have a 100% choice. So how could you say you have free will if you are saying that my decisions are based on ah previous experiences. What's that? Well, you kind of go into random extremes.
04:12:26
Speaker
I'm not. No, what I'm saying is- Based on the few relative decisions available to them, not 100% of the actual- I agree. we don't we We don't make our decisions based on 100% possible potentials. We make our decisions based off what we've already experienced and learned.
04:12:49
Speaker
Well, no, but not necessarily. Because I've never been on a plane with a crying baby. But I know if I get on there and it's a crying baby, I'm not going to punch it. How can you make a... Well, I mean, we all have experienced it. Punching babies is probably not a good thing. But it's a choice. I could punch that baby if I wanted to. Maybe it's an asshole. I don't know. Yeah, you could. But why don't you?
04:13:18
Speaker
You do it because you want it's not or have or or you don't because just because you don't want to punch a baby. You don't do it because you know, for once that's going to cause damage to that little baby and you don't want to be a conscious for two. If especially if you're a parent, you have empathy for another parent, if somebody's walked up, punch my baby, I'd be pretty **** pissed. And then just like there's so many reasonable reasons why you don't punch a baby.
04:13:47
Speaker
Yeah. Is is that something? Is that a decision that you made right then in there or is that a decision you made because of past experiences? Not punching a baby. No, because I've never had the experience of punching a baby. For me. Because I've never. have i know that you have you have the learned me You have the learned experience that punching a baby would result in.
04:14:16
Speaker
potentially the death of that baby. So you don't do it. How would you learn that? By reading the news. That's a nurture thing. If you are, i can't read it is a nurture thing because sharing information and nurturing is part of nature. But if you could, is my point and let's be honest, let's be honest. You could ignore, you could ignore the Nate nurture part and punch that baby.
04:14:47
Speaker
You are a lot of animals in. And why would it and why would and why would somebody ignore that to make a bad decision? Because the baby's an asshole. That's the nature. It's not. It's not. We we don't make it. It's not because the baby's an asshole. You don't make a choice. I mean, if if you're making a choice because the baby's an asshole, then you're making the choice because you don't like assholes.
04:15:15
Speaker
No, but like maybe, maybe it's baby. No, baby. Do you know how many animals kill their own babies or kill babies of their own species? Do it all the time. Are you really going to give me the nature lecture now? If that's no, I'm serious. Are you really going to give me the nature lecture when I've been using the lecture in nature the inside and that's my whole point. You're making my point is what I'm saying. Okay. What is your point then?
04:15:45
Speaker
but it's it's going around this ben That we are part of nature. Yeah, but I was making the nurse. I'm not saying that. What's driving me nuts is you're saying no matter what, you don't have a choice. You do not have a choice because nature is already. No, I'm not saying we don't have a choice. I'm saying our choices are limited by our experiences and what we know.
04:16:14
Speaker
That's not. I know not to do a wormhole. That doesn't mean I'm going to do it. Can you even prove a wormhole exists to even make that? I know, but if the one shows up, I'm not going in it. Well, you don't know that until one actually exists, though. That's what you're saying right now. This is what I mean. This is that's why I pointed that out earlier. If you were to give me a billion dollars to suck Musk's dick, like I might actually change my mind.
04:16:44
Speaker
because I don't know. I haven't been presented that situation. I don't know the stresses. I don't know the stresses on me at that time when I'm deciding that decision. We don't know what the pressure. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. In that situation, you're going to make a choice. Yeah. In that situation.
04:17:07
Speaker
But that's what I'm saying. That's why you have free choice. But I can't, but I can't, but I can't make that choice now because I'm not in that situation. I don't know. agree i I don't know the pressure. And I don't know the pressures when I'm actually having to make that, that, that decision. There could be other things that influence that choice that I don't know about when that situation arises.
04:17:34
Speaker
But you, you can acknowledge that sometimes we make the wrong choice. Yeah. Okay. So why is that rather a free choice? Just because the wrong choice isn't just because the choice is wrong, doesn't make it not, not, not free will.
04:17:53
Speaker
yeah That that's that's my point like a car doesn't make the choice to break down but when it does we have We we have we have a choice to either fix it or scrap it or whatever But we don't know until we're presented with that choice And that choice when we're presented with it is when we make it and it all depends on where our mind is at that moment. And that all depends on the experiences that we have learned up until that point to make that choice. I don't believe that because if the car breaks for me, I don't care if I own it, rent it, buy it, or buy a new one. I'm going to fix it every time. Okay. Okay. For the simple fact, I like to do it.
04:18:40
Speaker
okay that's your nature but it's my choice because of your nature i don't know that's bullshit when did you choose to be the person you are today every single day every single day did you it's it's it's it's and ah let me explain my answer okay because every single day you wake up and you have a choice For example, go to work or go back to fucking bed. That's a choice, correct? And that and and that choice is influenced by other things out of our control. How how is it out of your control? Because there's there's times where but mostly every day I get up and I don't want to go to work, but I choose to get my fat ass up and go to work. Why do you choose that?
04:19:40
Speaker
for money. yeah Why? Okay. Why do you want the money? So I don't starve to death. Okay. Why do you, why don't you want to starve to death? Okay. Is that, okay. Does that, is, is, is that filling of not wanting to die a thing of your choice or is that a thing of an instinctual thing built into us humans because of nature?
04:20:10
Speaker
No, because if I really didn't want to, like, if I didn't want to work and I didn't want to die, I could go fucking panhandle or I could fucking mooch off of somebody. I could start a fucking Onlyfans. That's a choice. I don't choose to start an Onlyfans. But you're not choosing to die. Why? Why is your choice not to die? Why would death suck? Death is the final adventure, let's be honest. And I'm in. Okay.
04:20:38
Speaker
I know I Jedi I know I know this sounds funny, but when we're talking about this topic of free will and why we make her choices like Like it is an onion, but if I know but once again if I choose to die I could just butba myself and call him what Make that okay, okay i'm Okay, then not to sound not not to sound like morbid, but why don't you A lot of people kind of about plusy you're talking about human instinct and all that because you think because you think a pussy would pull the trigger. So you don't want to pull the trigger because you don't want to be a pussy.
04:21:18
Speaker
No, I don't want it to hurt. I don't want it to hurt. Because you don't want it to hurt. Okay, it's about what we want. We don't control our wants, man, because we instinctually, because in nature, we want to go on. No, there's only a few things that you can't choose. And that's breathing, because you can't hold your breath indefinitely. I guarantee you, because your body will make you breathe. That would only, like, you're only helping my argument. No. Yeah, because not choosing. Okay.
04:21:47
Speaker
Not choosing to breathe is involuntary action because we are programmed by nature to want to breathe. We do it involuntarily in order to freaking live. That's an evolutionary thing. Right. That we can agree on. Just like the instincts
04:22:10
Speaker
to make choices we are we are we are beholden islands every day we are beholden our choices are very holding even though you're choosing to live you're choosing what we know of the natural world the more choices we have the more uh illusion that we have free will i agree that free will is an illusion i think there is a argument for it, but in the grand scope of things, no, free will does not exist. We have an illusion that we do make choices, but those choices are only um influenced by our wants and what we've already learned and experienced. I love you, buddy, but I think you're delusional. I really am not. I'm not. I'm not agree i'm not delusional.
04:22:58
Speaker
no i'm you know you your quote and um dadass I'm going to use your quote for earlier. Fucking weird ideas usually sound weird when, you know, they're right. Or that's not exactly what you said. I totally know. where were no Going against the grain is considered weird. Right. So my point being is.
04:23:23
Speaker
Free will doesn't exist everything that we think we have free will is just an illusion based on what wants or I'm sorry What choices are allowed to us then we're depending on our situation like Jeff Bezos has more free will and you're using your logic He has more free will than than you or Jeff or Jedi does
04:24:09
Speaker
influences the amount of free will we have that it in itself absolutely does. You said it was my point. You said that freewheels. No, I don't believe that available to you. that Well, the more money you have, the more choices you have. um No, no, I don't believe that because because if I want a Lamborghini and I can't afford one, I can go fucking steal one and I own a Lamborghini for a short time. Why don't you? Because I'm not an asshole. You're not an asshole. You don't want to be an asshole.
04:24:38
Speaker
A little bit of both. All right. But like I said, I have the choice to steal a car or not steal a car. But you don't. The decision. Because you don't desire to. You don't desire to. You don't want to. You don't want to go steal that Lamborghini. Oh, you have no idea how bad I want to. Then go do it. I'm going to get caught. Don't fuck that.
04:25:07
Speaker
All right, then your your your choice is being constrained. but But if you're walking, you have a choice to start on your left or right foot, correct? If you're standing still and you're going to walk forward,
04:25:24
Speaker
super simple right or or you you have a choice to start on your left or right foot right about actually actually no actually no i don't i don't i don't have a choice to step on my left or right foot it opens anyways what my pattern has been i went through what graedex i went i went through j-rock scene high school i went through military so my automatic default is to step off with my left yeah because this program i don't I don't have a choice. It's what is programmed into. is i but you have a choice But you have a choice to start on your right foot from now on if you wanted to. I do. I do. now now Now that I'm more conscious of my choices, I can choose something different because now that i no now I know there's more because because it's now now that
04:26:20
Speaker
I have no more but to make a choice. and See, this is what I mean. This is what I mean. Your your choices are confined to what you know or what you experience. But they're still choices! That doesn't give... Choices don't mean free will, though. Yes, they do. No, they don't. That's literally the definition. That's a bad definition. I'm not Webster's buddy. I don't know what to tell you.
04:26:50
Speaker
That's the definition of choice. No, Blaze, you have the right choice. You have the free will to choose that. Yes, choice is making a choice. I mean, I know that sounds a bit redundant. I know that sounds like a tautology, but I mean, making a choice based on what you know is available to you is not the same. Choice, a noun, the act of selecting or making decisions when faced with two or more possibilities.
04:27:19
Speaker
Okay, possibilities, but possibilities are not endless. Possibilities doesn't mean you have the free choice to make any fucking decision. No, that's consequences. There's never going to be a possibility in any juncture of life. You don't always get unlimited. And you don't have free will. Every choice has a consequence.
04:27:40
Speaker
you every situation has ahs you get consequences of The choice ah consequences of a choice doesn't have any relevance on free will or not. Yes it does. There's a reason why I don't steal a Lamborghini because I'm going to get caught and I'm going to go to jail! The consequences of free stealing a Lamborghini!
04:28:03
Speaker
then you're only telling yourself that your free choice is only extended to what you want or want don't want to do. No, because there's people that actually steal parts. This is what I'm talking about. Your free will only exists to amount to what you want or don't want to do. It's not free will.
04:28:23
Speaker
That is the definition of free will. You can choose which path you want to take forward. Hey Jeff, look up the definition of free will, not choice. Oh, I'm doing it. The definition of free will. The power of acting with the constraint of necessary or fate. The ability to act on one's own decision.
04:28:47
Speaker
What informs a person's decision, what they know, what they've experienced and what they've learned through life?
04:28:56
Speaker
No, I don't understand. Because a baby, a baby learned to crawl, doesn't know that he put shouldn't put his hand on the fucking hot oven. No, but he still reaches up there to grab it because it's something to grab on old. The consequences of burning his hand is a result of his choice to touch the fucking oven. OK. That's his choice. That's his free will to touch that oven. He hasn't learned yet that though this is a bad idea, curiosity is about to. Curiosity is a part of human nature.
04:29:34
Speaker
Agree. That's part of free will too, is that it's for your curiosity. No. Yes, that's part of human nature. That is our net. The only reason we have free will is because based on your experiences, blah, blah, you ever choose something fucking brand new that you have no background knowledge, you're just going to roll with it. And curiosity. decision in life that curiosity with curiosity it's like i don't know what's goingnna happen curiosity is curiosity is a part of human nature we don't choose our nature you if you didn't have free will you wouldn't have curiosity you'd already know the choice made for you no you think we have free will because you have curiosity
04:30:12
Speaker
You're getting even more into the weeds than you were before. No, I'm not getting into the weeds. It's we have, you think we have free will clear you have to do ah because we have free will. we have what What came first? instead What came first? The curiosity of that baby touching that hot item or the fact that I'm not going to choose it again after burning myself.
04:30:50
Speaker
I'm saying we make choices based off our wants. Our wants are based off our experiences. Our experiences are based on nature. If a baby burns their hand on a hot eye because of their curiosity, which is nature,
04:31:17
Speaker
then later on they make a choice not to touch the eye because of their previous expanse and curiosity. They're not making a free choice. Pre-determined thing that you're saying everything's nature and predetermined.
04:31:33
Speaker
that we have no free no yes it's predetermined but nature is nature is part of that predetermination we natural beat we every just thing youre it doesn't make nature doesn't no it doesn't no curiosity curiosity is part of nature it's our natural makete rebuttal against what you're saying because it was we just had a a natural impulse to do certain things and we didn't have no curiosity wouldn't be a factor in our decisionmaking no but it is all the time curiosity their curiosity is we well Curiosity is a factor in our decision making. well Is the ability to act on curiosity? No, curiosity is part of human nature. We act on curiosity. The fact that you call it acting on freedom, you're just adding it. By nature, then why would you need curiosity? No, curiosity is what's programmed into nature. We are naturally curious. Curiosity is a strong desire to know or learn something.
04:32:34
Speaker
Yeah, but if if you have no free will and it's all based on your natural inclinations, then curiosity wouldn't be affected because you already have the instincts for whatever decision you're about to make. No, no, no. You don't have the instinct that that hot iron, hot eye is going to burn you.
04:32:53
Speaker
because you've never experienced them before. You don't know that. But what you do have is the curiosity to reach out and touch and experience that regardless of it regardless if it's nature. er yeah That's what I'm saying. No, no, no, no. I said it wrong. That's nurture. Nurture that is being able to... Nurture is part of nature.
04:33:14
Speaker
I'm not saying that, but you're saying there's no free will and that it's all about nature and nurture and nature are the same thing to a degree, yeah which yeah they're different end of the spectrum in a lot of capacities because that there's nothing about nature that's going to tell you something's going to burn you. Well, actually it does. A lot of animals do have nature for things that are going to kill them after they've never died or got hurt after, after they, after they've experienced it. No, no. Before they do a lot of them.
04:33:43
Speaker
Like a lot of animals walk around knowing what a predator is, even though they have never experienced that once in their life. That is nature. I'll give you that. Humans are not built the same way though. We don't have that built. We are built the same way. We're part of nature.
04:34:00
Speaker
Yes, we are. like I mean, we are. We are. We are. just we are nature We are the shallow end of the nature pool.
Debates on Free Will and Personal Responsibility
04:34:07
Speaker
No, we're no. We are more sentient than most of the other. OK, but but Jedi Jedi is going into instinct, which is. This is my old point. You go into instinct. You're only proving my point. No, no, no, no. And the reason I understand. No, I understand what you're saying. rules don't because free Well, the way we do.
04:34:29
Speaker
ah We don't have free will. Just like animals don't do that. We have way more. We might have, we might have more of an illusion of free will, but we don't, we just because we're so more sentient and have more choices available to us, doesn't mean we have free will just because we have more choices. This doesn't make sense.
04:34:54
Speaker
We're still confined to the choices that we make based on our experiences, our nurturing, and what we've learned. we don't We don't walk up to a situation that we've never experienced before and just really nearly make a choice. We go off instantly.
04:35:17
Speaker
No, a lot of people go with no information when making a decision. If there's no information, then they have to make a decision. Again, like I said, if we walk up to a situation we have no experience in, we go off instinct. So for you to sit there, if we walk up to a situation that we have, um not um um I'm excluding that.
04:35:41
Speaker
if we We have a lot more free will than what you're stating. No, we have no free will. at all. None. We will agree to disagree at this point. Okay. I'm fine. Yeah. And you know, I'm still, I'm still trying. Okay. So this is what has happened. I have been making the argument for the non-existence of free will based on instinct and nature. You guys don't agree with me. You know, his argument has come around to instinct and nature. I mean, come on. No, because
04:36:16
Speaker
but Like, I know, I know that if I, if I do this and light my lighter and do this, it's going to burn my fucking hand. You do. But I'm doing it anyways. Okay. Even though I know it's going to burn, that's my choice. You did not make that choice. You're saying I just didn't make the choice to light this underneath my hand and burn my hand? No, that was not your choice. Why is it not my choice?
04:36:42
Speaker
You tell me why it's not your choice. Why did you? Why did you come to that conclusion to prove a fucking point? I just chose I'm choosing again. What? What point? What point did you just make?
04:36:59
Speaker
Then I chose to burn myself. Okay. And how? He chose to burn himself. That goes against his nature. When did you learn that burning yourself is a is a harmful thing? I don't know. and I was like three. By who? But I just chose to do it again. He chose. Free. Okay. Now, okay now choose a whole oil now choose choose to hold it there until you actually burn your hand.
04:37:29
Speaker
I just did. No, no, no, no. Choose to hold it there until you burn your hand to where your hand is on fire. Choose to do that. You see, you keep going. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I could. Choose. OK, do it. Choose to do it. No, because I'm not a fucking idiot. Thank you for proving my point. How is that proving your point? I could. I wanted to.
04:37:54
Speaker
didn't that's what i've been saying we do what we want or don't want to do but it's a choice to do so okay then do it make the choice you chose not because i'm not going to stop stop stop stop if instinct and peer pressure and nature and all that doesn't matter Then do it. I never said it didn't matter. Nobody said any of those things that matter. I never said it didn't matter. Then where, okay, people then where, then where is your argument and where's your argument for free will? Because if I wanted to, then I could. Okay, then what to do it. Okay, if you have the free will. I don't want to do it. There's a difference. Okay. Why can't you choose not, why can't you choose to want to do it?
04:38:47
Speaker
because of the consequences. holy shit i feel like this conversation alone is giving me colon cancer wow okay so if free will okay if free will is to make the choice regardless of whatever then never kind of regardless of the consequences okay then then where those consequences come from
04:39:10
Speaker
the knowledge knowing that you can arm yourself and cause detrimental damage so you don't want to do it. Dude, I ride a motorcycle at 150 miles an hour. I know I was going to fuck my money. Are you making the conscious choice? Are you making the conscious choice not to do it because you don't want to hurt yourself? Are you making the conscious choice because you know you're you'll hurt yourself?
04:39:36
Speaker
It's like, don't want to hurt myself. I know I'm going to hurt myself. But once again, if I'm driving down the road, it's my choice to speed. Then it comes down to once. No, no, no. Because let's even simply. You just said it. If I'm driving down the road. You don't want to do it. If I'm driving down the road. You said you don't want to do it. And I'm doing the speed limit. It's my choice to speed and do 150 miles an hour instead of 50.
04:40:05
Speaker
That's my joy, regardless of the consequences. I'm going to do it. Why? Because I enjoy speed. Okay. I could die. I could, God forbid, kill somebody. Still my choice, correct? Is it because you want to? Yes. Okay. Then why don't you want to burn yourself? Because it's going to hurt.
04:40:32
Speaker
Where, where did you learn that? because I've burnt myself before, I'm a smoker, I've burnt myself plenty of times. My point is, if I if I go by, if I go by a fucking, I don't use a 1100 and I fucking get on that fucker and I max it out, I'm probably gonna crash, I'm probably gonna die, but it's my choice to do so. Is it your choice because you don't want to or because you want to?
04:41:03
Speaker
This is what I'm talking about. I... You don't want... This is what I'm talking about. We make choices based off our wants. Our wants are not something we control. Yes, it is, because I don't... No, it's not. When did you want to not die? I can choose. You can choose. Okay, then choose to burn your hand. I don't want to choose to burn my hand. Okay, you don't want to. That's my old point.
04:41:32
Speaker
What does that have to do with free choice? and if i you have if you have free will If you have free will, then you can will yourself to what to burn your hand is what I'm saying. Yes. Then do it. Why would I want to burn myself? Exactly. It's about once.
04:41:50
Speaker
But once again, no, that's a bad what what what about when you're ridiculous. What about Yes, I agree. i agree what um and flip i I agree. What I'm asking is ridiculous. But it proves my point. If you if you actually have free choice, you really have free choice, you can override that once and just do it. Yes. Then do it.
04:42:16
Speaker
I've cut myself on purpose for the night. For instance, I've actually taken and I've been cut in my hand on purpose. That was a choice. I knew it was going to hurt. I knew it was going to have a scar and I did it anyways. Still a choice, correct? that And I've done it. questions but um Okay. Let's see. Let's say you want to be... Hold on. All right. Go ahead, Jedi. Go ahead.
04:42:44
Speaker
Okay. So like, let's say you want to be buff as shit, but doing a hundred pushups a day hurts and you don't want to hurt. So your wants are conflicting. What do you want more? Do you want to be buff or do you just want to be comfortable and not do the pushups that are going to make your muscles burn? You know, like.
04:43:03
Speaker
Is one of them wrong? Do you need to be buff? Not necessarily. No, but but i do i think voice I think it's a choice whether you want to be buff or do you want to be uncomfortable and do the the workout that gets you buff. You can want to do a hundred pushups a day if you're not in shape, but can you, can you will yourself do it? Yes. Some people can.
04:43:27
Speaker
Some people can't if they're already, in the like if look isn in and if, hold on, stop, let me answer the question. good good if but if If somebody is already in the physique to do it, they can't, but if somebody is not, they can't just will themselves do under pushups in a day.
04:43:50
Speaker
okay so okay so you're saying that's nature when you're not naturally no wait wait wait exactly because you're not naturally at that time but you can build do one hundred with twenty five my building years old so like that goes against what you just said if somebody wants to do 100 push-ups wants to do 100 push-ups to get buff and start doing that they can't know they can't everybody what Sit there and then hold on just sit there and say well if they build up to it Well, then yeah I would agree if they build up to it They probably like build want to kill different scenarios. It's two different scenarios my dude Wait,
04:44:44
Speaker
Not everybody's built to do it, but we can all run, can we not? Can you will yourself to keep running even though you're tired? Yes. your para project drive can you can you will yourself Can you will yourself to run 15 miles? Can you will yourself to run 15 miles? I want to see you do it. I will i will believe you i won blow i will believe you if you do it tomorrow.
04:45:14
Speaker
I'm not going to. Why? But my point is because why can't what? Because you don't want to. There it is. one i my god i could so I don't want to hear. goods I want to hear. I want I want I want free will. and advocate on it boom on one I don't care. I want free will advocates to prove their free will. If you say you can will yourself to run 15 miles, fucking do it. I can do it.
04:45:44
Speaker
Do it! Do it It's an illusion! you've guys You guys have proven that time and time again. Every time I ask you to go um every time i asked you do every time i've asked you to um Um, um, explain or demonstrate this free will. It's like, well, I don't, hey like out it every time, you hold on every time I've asked you, every time, and as every time I've asked you to demonstrate this free will, it's like, well, I don't want to. Well, Blaze, let me ask you. No, nobody said that. is all Let ask me why we didn't want wanty ask you a question. Yeah. Can you smoke a pound of weed?
04:46:35
Speaker
No. In like but how much time and how much time? In In four days. No. You physically can't? No. I can't even wheel myself to do that. That's a lot of weed. Okay, look let's, for instance. I can joke about it, but honestly no. You choose to smoke weed, do you not?
04:46:58
Speaker
i I do choose to smoke weed because I have an influence. Can you choose not to? Nobody's forcing you to smoke weed. Can I choose not to? Can I wake up tomorrow and choose not to with my will? No. Why not? Because I have a habit on it. My mind is already, um I have to wean myself off of it. I have to take a concerted effort and learn myself not to. No, because there's people out there that can like can go cold turkey. Yeah, not everybody all right everybody is the same though. The testament of a person's willpower is not the testament to free will.
04:47:44
Speaker
if Free will is a thing that everybody If everybody has free will then everybody can exert it the same this whole idea Well, you just choose not to it's bullshit again. It comes down to choice There's no means no free will in week. Well week. Well is me I choose to drink I don't and i I don't but that doesn't mean I can't now I'm not saying I'm not saying there we don't have a will we do have a will to do But it's not a free will the free that the whole freedom thing is an illusion because it's like we think we have this ultimate Idea that we can just do whatever the fuck we want whenever we want to fucking do it There's no constraints and that's just not true but you sayy like the way yeah so that's and nog That's like people want to sign
04:48:40
Speaker
That's like people walking around saying they they they have critical thinking skills, but they can't name one critical thinking tool, but they they think they do and they will themselves to think they do. That doesn't mean they have free will.
04:48:55
Speaker
Like just because you can choose choose something doesn't like it it comes down to once Like if you have the will if you have the free will to do something and the only thing stopping you is if you want to do it or not then Then you don't have free will because that once or that not one is restricting you from that freedom What you the other day We were on the show and you chose to drink a ah bottle of eggnog, did you not? I did. Could you have not done it? Yeah, actually ah you on I actually thought about not doing it, but I chose to do it.
04:49:38
Speaker
because I wanted you chose I chose because I wanted to at the end when it went when I was driving down the road and I was contemplating myself do I want to go get a bottle of eggnog or do I just want to go do the show totally sober I'm like you know what I want I want to have a good time with my friends have some booze and just have a relaxing time I wanted I could choose to get hammered on the show every night but I don't well now I want some eggnog so now we have a bigger problem i know
04:50:10
Speaker
ah fuckers's got yeah even egg nogg ever since she showed it on the thing But that's, that's like, I can choose. I got enough money right now. I can go to the store and buy a six pack of beer. I choose not to then go do it because I don't drink beer. Okay. Cause I chose to stop. Do you want beer right now? Always.
04:50:34
Speaker
Really? But I choose not to. I see you guys drink on the show, and I choose not to. Why is why i do you i know what i'm standing i an asshole why do you choose not to? Because I know that when I drink too much, I become an asshole. So you don't want to be an asshole?
04:50:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I choose not to drink. Now, I want to go drink every single day. I choose not to. Because you don't want to be an asshole because you understand. But I can also choose to have you one or two. Your wants not to be an asshole outweighs you want to drink. Oh, I want to be an asshole every day. Don't. but still free will when you, when you it's my choice line up all your wants across the board. I'm going to give you guys a break. I'm going to, I'm going to give you guys a break. I got to go pee. I'll be right back. I'm going to be listening, but you guys, I'm going to wait. I got to go. Uh, I'm going to play a song real quick because I got a P two. Uh, I'm going to switch over. I think B break sounds about right right now. B break sounds good. So, uh, let's, you know, like we're talking about drinking. We're talking about having fun.
04:51:44
Speaker
How about a little Rum Springer rebel gal? We'll be right back.
Cultural Analogies and Life Choices
04:56:04
Speaker
I'm in love
04:56:28
Speaker
Yeah, I love rum springer. Rebel yell. See? That's for the mini eye cast.
04:56:38
Speaker
What's that? That's a lazy jag chose to leave. He did. like yeah I think it's internet. But internet, or maybe you wanted to go to slave? I don't know. Well, it is 2 o'clock in the morning, buddy. I'm just saying. It is. It is. I think he's i think he's on an earlier.
04:56:58
Speaker
I don't know. That was Rumspring though. I just... Do you know where Rumspring is? No, no. Yeah, I know, right? like It's like, I think it's... It's Amish. Amish or Mennonites, yeah. It's it's like their...
04:57:22
Speaker
It's like their spring break. I guess you would put it. It's, it's okay. Um, from what I understand, it's when, uh, people of that religion reach a certain age. I want to say it's like young adolescent, like late teens or something. They have the choice to venture outside of the the group and experience life in the other world, the food world, the boys and girls are given.
04:57:50
Speaker
ah or we can just or we can do that too you can yeah sorry uh in the Amish community it it's a period of adolescence in which boys and girls are given creative personal freedom and allowed to form romantic relationships usually ending in the choice of baptism of entering the church church or leaving the community yes It's a choice. That's kind of what I was getting at. It's a choice. It is a choice. They have two choices. be Be part of the group or go out on their own. And what what what does that choice come down to? What they want.
04:58:40
Speaker
What is definitely part of choice? like I agree. But we don't control. You still have a choice. Yeah, I'm not saying we don't have a choice. I'm saying those choices are based on for once, and those once are we don't control. Those once, those once we express those ones. That's not true. We express through our experiences in life that we had no choice to experience. Those ones come from parts of life that we just- Oh, because I want to bang the cashier at my local store, but I don't.
04:59:17
Speaker
I choose not to.
04:59:21
Speaker
Why do you choose not to? Well, I'm pretty sure she's married and I'm married. Okay. So that would be it. I choose not to pursue it. Okay. Okay. But why? Because I refuse to cheat on my wife. Because you don't want to cheat on your wife. Oh, I do. I just don't.
04:59:46
Speaker
You want to cheat on your wife. Yeah, but I choose not to. Why do you choose not to? Because I love my wife. OK. So I choose not to hurt her. But what's fucked up is she's she's kind of giving me permission. I still choose not to. OK, you choose. You choose. See, this is this is the thing with the pro free will. Everything everything is a choice. and they never i They do, but they never acknowledge the fact that it comes down to a want or a want not to. You don't want to choose, but you don't want to cheat on your wife because you don't want to have a devastating marriage. You don't want this. So you don't want that. Regardless of where that want comes from, that want can come from you want to love your wife. So you don't want to cheat on.
05:00:43
Speaker
like it's all about there's nothing um dead honest like my wife feels in and cheated on my wife in the past There's nothing wrong with having wants. I think it's wrong with those wants hurt other people, but again, those are still wants.
05:01:00
Speaker
on Just like we don't want a hurricane, all we can do is mitigate those effects. But my point being is at the end of the day, our choices that we feel are free will are based off our wants or desires or not desires or not wants. So that's all I'm saying. Once you get down to it, those wants are based off experiences and what we've learned And not to put you put you out there, buddy, but did you choose to get divorced or was it chosen for you? It was chosen for me. Okay. so Yeah. Just like, okay. So let's go back to ice cream real quick. Like, let's say you, miss an easy scenario it it is, it is, it is like, you've, are let's say you've never had vanilla ice cream. You've never had chocolate. And one day you have. rose
05:01:57
Speaker
But whatever. But one day you have, you've been given, you've been given both of these. You can have a taste of each. You can to have a spoonful of vanilla and you get a spoonful of chocolate. The next time the amount of choices doesn't matter. We always, always, always have a limited amount of choices. So The next time you make a choice on whether you want vanilla or chocolate, you're making that choice off your previous experience of what you liked more and that what you liked more is not something you choose. No, I don't believe that because I might be in the mood for chocolate that day. You might. You're absolutely right. You might be in the mood for chocolate.
05:02:48
Speaker
But is is that mood controlled by you choosing to not want chocolate or want chocolate that day? Or is because you want chocolate? I almost never want chocolate, but it's that's fine. That's not my point. um my to But is, but my point is when you make that choice, are you making that choice because it's still a sure it does. ah I'm not saying you don't have a choice. My argument isn't.
05:03:18
Speaker
You don't have a choice. My argument is those choices, no matter how plentiful or not plentiful they are, our will to make those choices are based on what choices are available to us and what are experiences that led us to making this choice. But you can also make the choice not to indulge. If you don't want to, sure.
05:03:46
Speaker
But that's the that's the free will of it. What? The wanting? We don't control our wants. Choose not to choose. Okay. if it if your simple if If the simple definition of free will is just to make a choice. Okay. Again, it's just an illusion because of those choices.
05:04:07
Speaker
are based off our wants. And our wants are not based off any cognitive conscious decision. They're based on what makes us feel good or makes us feel bad. And we don't choose our feelings either. We feel what we do when we feel them because those are our feelings. Yeah. I just, I,
05:04:34
Speaker
I can't simplify it in those terms that's in my head and and that's the thing about free will it's not like but that's fine you don't want to and that's cool because you know you you've you had your mind made up that free will is choice. So as long as you have a choice, you, you believe you have. I know where you're going with it.
Friendship and Respect in Debate
05:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. I just, I just, I'm not a hundred percent on board. I'm not asking anybody. Agreed. Agreed. Not that I want to wrap it up, but I think we should because we're coming on five hours. I think we should wrap it up too. Jedi, I know you bounced it. I do appreciate you coming up. I'm sorry if you felt like I gave you a hard time. That wasn't my intention. I question everything. Every idea I like to question. what and and I want to believe in proof because here's the thing.
05:05:35
Speaker
I want to believe in free will. I think you over complicated. I want I don't know over complicated. I I think people I think people simplify it. I want to believe in free choice. I want to I want to be able to say, hey, um I'm a bad person or I'm a good person simply because I choose to be. I would love I would love to go to bed at night thinking that. But because I understand that The choices I make are only limited to what's available to me. What I've learned, I can't sit there in and sit there and say, I made a free roll choice. I made a choice based on because I don't want to go to prison, which is a choice.
05:06:25
Speaker
No, I don't, not rob the bell I don't choose to want to not to go to prison. I don't want to go to prison. Like it's, I'm not making that choice. Okay. Well, here's one. Okay. You, you, not to, I don't want to go into too much detail, but you are a 1099 employee. Do you pay your taxes? I do.
05:06:53
Speaker
you have to choose to do that as a 1099 employee. I do. because i choose to make it Because I want to reap the benefits later on when I apply for social security and Medicaid and functioning in a society. i want I want no matter how much I don't like parts of the society I live in, I still want to participate in it. I still find value in a society.
05:07:25
Speaker
It's a choice. It is a choice based on my wants. I don't choose my wants. I never, I never woke up thinking I, I choose this one. It's just, I, I want pancakes. But you could literally choose to wake up and not pay your taxes. I can, i can wait damn the cop i so I can, I can wake up in the morning and choose to want pink.
05:07:52
Speaker
but I go downstairs, I open up the pantry and I don't have flour to make pancakes. So then my choices are relegated to what I have in my pantry or if I want to make the trip to the grocery store.
05:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a choice to go to the grocery store now. Do I want to though? No. So I'm going to, I don't want to go to the grocery store. So I'm going to,
05:08:23
Speaker
denigrate my choices to what I have on hand in my pantry. You could choose to door dash that shit to you. I could choose to door dash. But what if I don't want to pay the extra fees? Because I'm on a limited budget.
05:08:42
Speaker
See our our choices that we contribute to free will are constrained by what's available to us. No, and I Yeah. is this so And this is what I mean. And this is what I mean by if our choices, if our free will is based on on our choices and people with, let's say more money have more choices available to us, to them, then how much freedom do we have when we base our freedom on choices? Well, you could choose to go steal somebody's pancakes. You could.
05:09:20
Speaker
But I don't, like I said, I don't want to go to jail. That would be a choice. I i don't, I don't want to. Like if you walk downstairs don't and, and, and, and one of your roommates is eating pancakes, you could choose to steal their pancakes. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's not enough but stuff to make more. but you can just But I don't, but I don't want to be the asshole and take somebody else's freaking pancakes and start a fight because that doesn't seem beneficial to the overall situation of that group. Because we have an instinctual wanting to not being herded, but we don't want to, we don't want to hurt the status quo. I mean, I'm not saying the status quo isn't bad sometimes, but when it comes to like group dynamics, we don't want to interrupt the group. We want a, we want a cohesive group, but we also want, you know, but
05:10:18
Speaker
but Again, it's about the ones Like it no matter how many choices we have it I get that down and I'm not I'm not But yeah your free choice of to choose To go with that want. Okay, like how of the scenario of I want pancakes.
05:10:42
Speaker
I don't have the stuff. I can steal. Bob's or I can go to the fucking store and get the shit to make pancakes or you go without pancakes. OK. So you have the free choice to choose one of those. OK, or or OK. We're thank fucking slow. But how how does that how is that choice made? At the end of the day, we're OK. Why do you pick Because you wanted fucking pancakes. Because you want. I'm not saying want is not part of free choice. Okay. But you out of those three, once again, limited scenario, you have three choices. And saying. You have a free choice to pick one of the three or none of them. Yeah. That's free choice. Okay. how Okay. Okay. let Let me ask you this.
05:11:35
Speaker
What's the extent? What is the absolute logical conclusion to free will? How much free will do we have to choose what we want to do, whatever we want? Like, where does that, where does that end? Is there an end to that? Or can we just freely will us to whatever we want? Like, like, when does this, call us to silent what the society, you can do whatever you want.
05:12:05
Speaker
No, no, no. Okay, your constraint on free will is still influenced by what we can naturally do. So my question is, if free will has nothing to do with nature or wants, where does that end? Where is the limit to free will? Or is there, is it endless?
05:12:33
Speaker
it's I would put it in a endless, like ignoring laws of society and stuff like that. Like if I wanted to, I could walk down the street naked, or I could get in my car and drive naked. That is a choice I choose to put fucking clothes on to go outside. look I could choose if I wanted to, and I almost did it today because I didn't realize I didn't have a shirt on. this okay okay I I could choose to go outside.
05:13:04
Speaker
Does free will have more power than nature?
05:13:16
Speaker
that That's a slippery slope. There's a thin line slope what the there. So, okay, okay. There's a thin line, or there's a slippery slope, but that's what I'm, that is what I'm asking. When somebody says free will exists,
05:13:33
Speaker
where is the extent of its existence? Where does it stop existing? Where does it start existing? That's, but that's a chicken or egg situation. it No, the egg comes before the chicken. If you look at evolution, how where did the egg come from another animal that wasn't a chicken, that's how evolution works. It's not this delineation line, but when free will is spoken of,
05:14:03
Speaker
It's talked about like there's this delineation line. Where is that line? When does free will escape the bounds of nature? And if it does escape the bounds of nature. Oh, I have the perfect example. Okay. There's a, there's a, there was a billboard and it showed a dog, a cat, a horse, cow, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it said, where do you draw the line?
05:14:29
Speaker
Free Will says I can eat a fucking cat or I can eat a fucking horse or I can eat a mouse or whatever. But because of beliefs and thoughts and oh, it's cute so I can't eat that fucking thing, people usually draw a line. okay So the Free Will, if I wanted to, I'll eat a fucking horse or I'll eat a dog or a cat.
05:14:58
Speaker
That's my choice. but it's still quite great But it's still constrained by the laws of nature. Where can you exert your free will outside of nature? If free will is not dependent on nature or experiences and what we've naturally acquired through our evolution and our growth and stuff, when do we have free will that we can exert to say, fuck nature, I'm going to do this anyway? Anytime somebody kills me, son. But that's within nature, though. Death in life is within nature. I don't understand. Agreed. But if I choose to pick up a
05:15:47
Speaker
pew pew and Kurt Cobain myself, there's that makes choice. There's experiences where, experience experiments where scientists have used, um I can't remember if it was rats or so or some other the kind of rodent, where they put these animals in a pressure where they've been depressed and they stop eating and kill themselves. Right.
05:16:11
Speaker
yeah know okay That's their choice to stop eating because is their your body will be like you need to eat something. The confinements pressured onto them was brought onto them out of their control is what I'm saying. Gandhi didn't. Gandhi went on a fast. He didn't eat. okay He had free will to stop eating.
05:16:38
Speaker
or did or did he want Or was his desire and want to push a message more than him wanting to eat? This is what I mean. Like when these experiments were, when these experiments on these rats happened, it was, they put social pressures on these rats to make them not want to eat for another reason. Just like Gandhi chose not to eat i for other reasons.
05:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's fine. I don't, I don't really care. I think Gandhi was, I think Gandhi and mother Teresa were horrible examples. And I don't think for other reasons. Yeah. Yeah. For other reasons. Uh, I'm not saying their message that they were supposing was bad, but their practices were bad, but anyway. Um, but my point is.
05:17:34
Speaker
We are natural beings controlled by our wants and desires and there's no evidence that we have free will that overcomes that natural instinct or that natural experience.
05:17:51
Speaker
Yes, I actually have an example if I think I can fly and I try to jump off a building The natural instinct is to to not jump off the fucking building But I made a choice you know, it's because I think I can fly with my fucking hand Yeah, but okay, but that free will to fly comes up against the natural the natural world right gee so i made the choice to try to fly on louding my whi you might
05:18:22
Speaker
you want to fly but because of nature your free will doesn't exist and you fall and hit the fucking ground there's no will You're not willing yourself to fly. You're you're convincing yourself. Okay, so so you're saying you're saying if i you're saying in the free will, free choice, if I choose to fly, I can fucking flap my arms and start flying. If free will exists outside of nature, yes. But that's what ridiculous.
05:19:01
Speaker
I'm not saying I'm not the one advocating that free will is outside of nature. You are. And Jedi was.
05:19:13
Speaker
I think you and I have different definitions of free will. I know. I think what it is is your definition of free will can't be demonstrated.
05:19:31
Speaker
Yeah. Without, without, without coming to the conclusion that it's just a once. Because if free will existed, it didn't matter what your want is. I have an example. I just figured out, you know what wall sets are, right? What's that? A wall set.
05:19:51
Speaker
A wall sit? No, I don't know what a wall sit is. That's when you when you when you put your back up against the wall in a sitting position with nothing underneath your ass. The only thing holding up is your legs. Okay, that's a wall sit. Okay. I know for a fact that I can push myself beyond the pain to out wall sit almost anybody. Okay. And I've done it.
05:20:14
Speaker
Does that mean you're doing that? That's my choice. Are you, are you doing it outside of what nature allows you to do? Yeah, because literally once I get done doing it, I can't stand up. Well, that seems like that's nature kind of doing its thing. But my point is like you were talking about running the 15 miles.
05:20:41
Speaker
If your willpower is the extent of your, your, your, your desire to want or your, whatever it is. agree Again, know i this no, no, no, we could, but because no matter how many times you say is the choice, no matter what the choice is, it comes down to a want or not want.
05:21:10
Speaker
No matter what it what the choice is, there is a want underlining that that that choice. and that and And it's that want that you don't control is what I'm saying.
05:21:30
Speaker
I'm just saying, man. No, i I get where you're going with it. I understand it. And it's one of those things. It's it's a It's a paradox. It's really not a paradox. And the reason why I say it's a paradox. It's either you accept the natural world, or you don't, or you cherry pick it. But that's your opinion. It's not my opinion. And that's the beauty to wrap up the show. I know we can keep going. Oh, man. We can keep going. And unfortunately, once we hit that six hour bar,
05:22:07
Speaker
we um and This is like we this is like those conversations we have off-screen where we could just go and go and Yeah, and we've done that and the the one thing to take out of the five hours and 21 minutes and six seconds we've been doing this is We can all agree to disagree and still be friends at the end of the day But I'm right so fuck y'all and I'm joking
05:22:35
Speaker
I wanted to say that. ah You know what? I've been wanting to say it all fucking a night. You're fucking wrong. Fuck you. You're bullshit. I choose to say this.
05:22:51
Speaker
I choose to be your friend even though you're an asshole. I am. I'm a big asshole. All right. Before we end this slide, I want to say, I'm going to thank Virgil.
05:23:03
Speaker
I appreciate all your commentary, your questions. and There were some great ones. Jedi, if you're out there listening, I know you bounced, dude. i want to I appreciate you coming up. I i know I can be pretty and adversarial, but I do mean it all in good faith. Yeah, I agree. Nothing we said tonight was in malice.
05:23:25
Speaker
i don' one That is the one good thing about when when you and I, or anybody on the network, argues about something. It's literally never meant in malice. It's like, I'm making my point. That's the end of it. Next subject kind of thing. So, you know, on that, and I know we're trying to close out, but this does, I had a ah reflective thought earlier, earlier yesterday. um One thing I appreciate about this network compared to
05:23:57
Speaker
all the big ones out, all the big ones out there is all the big ones out there have a echo chamber. I've noticed that myself. Yes. They attract like us, you know, their own. Yes. And here at the non-cicycle network, we don't like that. Matter of fact, we encouraged, i we encouraged the the, well, we are the DEI hire of the podcasting world. I'm just saying.
05:24:27
Speaker
they accept me, so I have to accept them. I had no choice. but but here's the thing if you were
05:24:41
Speaker
And I'm trying to paint this with a nice brush. If you were, fuck you, I'm right, and I'm fucking in the bounce. Every time you're pushed even a little bit, that's where we're like, fuck you, I don't need that kind of energy in my life. The fact that you and I, especially you and I, we butt heads on a lot of shit.
Network's Commitment to Diversity
05:25:01
Speaker
But at the end of the day, we stay friends, we're like, hey, he has what he thinks, I think what I think, and we're gonna live, we're not gonna try to convince each other, all fair.
05:25:11
Speaker
that one is writer than the other writer. More writer, more correct. but yeah I think the point I was i was getting at, and Jeff, thank you for piggybacking.
05:25:25
Speaker
um
05:25:27
Speaker
We have other things that we offer, like movies, discussions, and music, and sports, and like you know mental health. so i mean like
05:25:41
Speaker
wherever you are in life, whatever your mindset is, man, you have a home here on the, on, on the non Cisco network. So, um, and I, I, I want to say that because the topics tonight were sort of off network standards adversarial, but I think we have that niche here on this network where no matter where are you at, what your mind is like, dude, you're accepted. Come here and just.
05:26:11
Speaker
Just don't talk too crazy. prove right and wrong are are proven indifferent you can come up You can come up here and scream. You can come up here and scream that the earth is flat. I'll let you for a little bit, but at the end of the day, then I'm going to shut you down. Yeah. No, but, but let's be honest. The true beauty of this network comes down to one simple fact, proven right, proven wrong or proven I don't agree. At the end of the day, we we remain friends and we it we leave it all on the table and no hard feelings. Hey, tomorrow we're going to talk about fucking an excellent, funny movie that Chris is wrong about because he says it's stupid. Fuck it. But some of the best he said that about maximum motor drive. So fuck him. But the I think that's the true beauty of ah the network is
05:27:07
Speaker
We obviously don't agree on a lot, but we remain friends. You and I talk as much as Chris and I talk. It's weak ridiculous how much we chat back and forth all day, every day. So, with that being said, sign us out, sir. I'm ready. Sign us out. I have no last thoughts, but other than thank you for joining us. Yeah. i mean Thanks for listening, everybody.
05:27:32
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in. Don't forget bio.link slash nonsensical network. Everywhere we find our, we do our content, whether it be ticky tacky, whether it be here on YouTube, rumble, Facebook, you name it, it's all there. And don't forget, if you really like us, like, share, follow, and go ahead and check out our merch line, nonsensical dash nonsense dot myspreadshop.com and spread it on you, baby. Attack the argument.
05:28:01
Speaker
Attack the argument.
05:28:13
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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