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With Michael Harvey
54 Plays4 years ago
Everyone is afraid of evangelism. But guess what? Almost everyone in the Bible expressed fear when God called them. Maybe it is time to re-evaluate the role of fear in evangelism. For a bit of a re-think, and information on great practical initiatives like the Weekend of Invitation and ACORN groups, we welcome Michael Harvey to the podcast.
Michael Harvey is married to Eike and they have three adult children Ben, Kirsty and Lydia. In 2004 Back to Church Sunday was birthed and Michael started to work with churches throughout the UK and eventually throughout the English speaking world and to his surprise started to notice a healing component in mission. He has spoken to thousands of church leaders and congregational members in his seminars and has to date seen hundreds of thousands of Christians mobilised to invite, resulting in 1 million+ accepted invitations. He launched the first National Weekend of Invitation in June 2018. He is author of the books Unlocking the Growth, Creating a Culture of Invitation and his latest book is Invitation to Heal. As an itinerant speaker and has a ministry across 18 countries and 5 continents. He is a member of the College of Evangelists.
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Transcript
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00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, thanks for downloading PepTalk. If you enjoy today's episode, why not get a free copy of Andy's book or my book by becoming a regular supporter? Visit us at solace-cpc.org and donate just £3 per month. Thanks so much. On with the show.
Meet the Hosts
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I'm Andy Bannister with the Sola Centre for Public Christianity up in Sully Dundee. Well, it is Sully, it was raining a few minutes ago, but now the sun is shining. And I'm joined as ever by my effervescent co-host, Kristy Bear, who's coming to me all the other way for another of the country down in London. Kristy, how are you doing down there today? Effervescently well, thank you very much.
00:00:54
Speaker
It's about 30 degrees here. I was outside earlier on, so very well in heart. Thanks, Andy. How are you doing? Well, it's got a 3 in it here, but it's not 30. I'll just tell you that.
Guest Introduction: Michael Harvey
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, Christie, we have a great guest on the show today. We are joined all the way from the heart of, well, not quite the heart of England, but the middle of England by Michael Harvey. Michael, welcome to pep talk. Great to be with you guys. So Michael, you've got quite a bio. You're a, you're a, you're a missiologist, you have a kind of sort of a public intellectual, author of three books and connected with various ministries, particularly connected with a wonderful initiative called the National
00:01:31
Speaker
weekend of invitation. For listeners, we'll put details on that into the show notes, but you can go to www.weekendofinvitation.com. Michael, why don't we start there? What is the national weekend of
What is the National Weekend of Invitation?
00:01:44
Speaker
invitation? I can hear listeners go, well, that sounds interesting. What is it? Well, basically, kind of about 16 years ago, I started something called Back to Church Sunday, which was trying to encourage Christians to, first of all, welcome
00:02:00
Speaker
and then invite their friends. Now, 16 years on, decided that basically we now need to really concentrate on inviting. And so why not have a weekend where we can actually invite people to take a closer look at Jesus Christ. So rather than it just being an act of worship on a Sunday,
00:02:29
Speaker
to actually have a weekend of different activities where kind of people can meet Christians in different kind of formats. So, you know, maybe on a Friday evening, we open our homes and have a meal and invite a couple of congregational members, invite a couple of our non-Christian friends on a Saturday. Maybe we have an event, a comedy evening or a
00:02:54
Speaker
or a quiz, you know, with an epilogue and then on a Sunday acts of worship. So just really kind of different ways to actually invite our friends, Andy.
Fear of Rejection in Invitations
00:03:06
Speaker
So Michael, you talk about invitation and I think one of the things that sometimes Christians struggle with is that whole process of invitation. You know, maybe there are some people listening to this who hear you describing this or they go look at the website and they think, wow, I would love to invite my friends, my neighbors, my colleagues,
00:03:23
Speaker
But then the fear kicks in. The heart rate goes up, the adrenaline goes into the red zone, and people keep their mouths shut and don't make the invite. What is it that holds us back sometimes from inviting friends? And how are some of the ways that maybe we can push through that and actually take that step of faith and invite someone to an event at church?
00:03:43
Speaker
Well, there are 12 common reasons why we don't invite. And as I've gone around at least 14 countries, multiple denominations and streams, there's one reason that basically kind of comes out at the top
00:04:04
Speaker
over and over and over again. And that is the fear of rejection. You know, we fear the rejection of another person. And so basically kind of in the workshops that I do, I help Christians really kind of look very carefully at what the fear of rejection really is all about.
00:04:30
Speaker
But I find it a really kind of a biblical response, you know, when God nudges us to actually invite somebody, that our first reaction is fear, you know, because frankly, who do we know in the Bible that wasn't afraid, you know, when God actually nudged them into action? They were all afraid. Every single one of them, you know, was afraid. So when Christians around the world, you know, kind of tell me that they're afraid,
00:05:00
Speaker
You know, I'm rubbing my hands in glee because it's a sign, you know, that God is really kind of calling them. It's not a sign to stop. It really is a sign to actually kind of explore that call with God.
Understanding and Embracing Fear
00:05:14
Speaker
I think that really resonates with me personally as well, Michael, in that I feel that fear in talking to others about who Jesus is. What is it that this weekend of invitation and your training in particular, how do you address that fear? What kind of things have you done to encourage others through that and their calling towards Christ that you mentioned? Well, perhaps the first thing to say is that
00:05:40
Speaker
I look at fear in perhaps a different way than others may look at it. So I would say it is absolutely okay to feel afraid. And I think that really needs to be said. I think it's okay to feel afraid. I just don't think it's okay to be afraid. I think there's a difference between feeling and being afraid. You know, God, after all, has given us a stress response. You know, so if we don't,
00:06:10
Speaker
feel afraid, you know, from time to time, you know, then that's really dangerous, you know, for us. And, and, and frankly, also, you know, kind of in, you know, the in Scripture, we see, you know, the there's the fear of the Lord, as well as the fear of man. And so, and so I think we need to have a more nuanced, you know, approach to fear than we do at this moment in time. So I think
00:06:36
Speaker
You know, the first thing is to really kind of teach, you know, that when God calls you, you will potentially feel afraid. It's not about managing fear. You know, one church leader said to me just recently, oh, Michael, we're doing really well, you know, because, you know, there's, you know, our fear is much less than it's been previously. And I'm going, my goodness, that can't be correct. Because when God continues to call us,
00:07:06
Speaker
It often calls us in our discomfort zones and therefore we are going to feel afraid, you know, and don't think, you know, just because we do one thing for God that the next activity God calls us to do, we will also feel afraid. So I think, first of all, the key
00:07:28
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is helping people to feel comfortable that actually the call of God might feel uncomfortable. There's something very interesting there, Michael, because I know when I first started training people in evangelism, I confess I tried a bit more too much to kind of be a motivational speaker, sort of talk about their fear and rally the troops. So then there's something occurred to me and it resonates a bit with what you were saying there. You know, one of my one of my hobbies is rock climbing.
00:07:56
Speaker
And I love going up, but I don't like coming down. I do not like abseiling. My heart pumps, I'm afraid. But I still do it, even though there's that fear there. And the reason I do it is I've done it a little bit of trading. So I know what I'm doing. So I'm not going to kill myself. And I trust the person on the end of the rope.
00:08:15
Speaker
And, uh, and then you can do, you can, you can do it even though there's the fear. And I wonder whether with evangelism, as you say, we've talked ourselves into this idea that if we feel the fear, there's something wrong rather than actually, as you say, God, God's given us a stress response. Uh, you know, that sort of natural actually, when you're putting yourself out on a limb, but we've, we've got the Holy Spirit, we've got prayer and with a little bit of trading in how to, you know, avoid making some pretty solotypical mistakes, actually anybody can invite their friends to church and see the Lord work through them.
00:08:45
Speaker
Definitely. It just reminds me of the story of Ananias. I love Ananias as a character. Without him, we wouldn't have half the New Testament when you think about it. First of all, God gives him a dream. Then he gives him a vision. Finally, he gives him an instruction to go to Saul.
00:09:11
Speaker
And just I love Ananias' response with God, which was, you know, kind of, do you actually know who Saul is, Lord? I love that. Because, you know, there is definitely a feeling of fear there. But he goes forward. He faces his fear with faith. And it's such an important teaching that we really need to get into the hands of as many Christians as possible.
00:09:40
Speaker
You know, I talked to that last question, Michael, about prayer. Those we were chatting before the show, you and I and Christi, one of the initiatives you've got is around prayer, you were telling us, in terms of getting Christians to pray around evangelism. Do you want to talk a little bit about what you were telling us and why you think that's really, really helpful and important?
Post-lockdown Connection through Prayer
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, I'm trying to get 100,000 Christians daily
00:10:06
Speaker
to pray the following prayer. Lord, today, who do you want me to connect with out with of the church? So that prayer again is, Lord, today, who do you want me to connect with out with of the church? And the reason I'm suggesting that evangelistic prayer is because, you know, Jesus said, I only do
00:10:36
Speaker
what I see my father do. There seemed to be a connection between the father and the son where mission was concerned. Jesus didn't go to every village. He didn't speak to every person. He didn't heal every person, but he did that which his father told him to do. And in the same way,
00:11:04
Speaker
for us. We are not meant to save everybody. We can't, because that's the work of the Holy Spirit anyway, but we're not meant to go to everybody. But we are meant to go to the people that God directs us to. So therefore, that prayer just brings to awareness the prompting of God in our lives, and it's just really, really vital. And why is it vital now, right at this moment in time? Well, as we're
00:11:35
Speaker
exiting perhaps lockdown, never has there been a more important time for Christians to actually connect with their neighbors, with their friends. It's a very, very important time to get the saints into circulation, Andy.
00:11:55
Speaker
That's so good to hear, Michael, because you also, I mean, not only is there this evangelistic prayer that you're encouraging people to join you in, but you mentioned in our pre-show chat a particular kind of grouping of people that you're hoping to come together in as a result of praying that
Introducing ACON Groups
00:12:13
Speaker
prayer. What is that? How can people join in? Christie, it's called ACON. So I'm trying to set up ACON groups, certainly, first of all, around the UK.
00:12:25
Speaker
And basically kind of what that is really all about is a way of life, an evangelistic way of life. So each of the letters of ACON stands for a part of the way of life. So the A of the ACON is ask, the C of the ACON is call, i.e. when we ask God,
00:12:50
Speaker
who to connect with god will call us back god will give us the name and how do we know you know kind of that the name that comes to us is the name it's probably uhm accompanied with oh no not that person give me another
00:13:05
Speaker
So normally there is a kind of a friction of fear as soon as we kind of receive the call from God. And then we obey, then we obey. We then simply kind of pick up our phone, pick up our video technology that we suddenly discovered that we've got. We simply ask the person who God has called us to connect with, how are you? A really simple question, how are you?
00:13:35
Speaker
And I think one of the futures of evangelism is a very good question asking, how are you? If God can get away with where are you in the Garden of Eden, I think we can get away with how are you? And at a deeper level, not just at the food level or the medicine level, but how they really are. And in the UK, the answer coming back is going to be fine.
00:14:02
Speaker
but to reset the question, no, really, how are you? And we will find kind of God in their ache, in their story, in their concern, in their worry, and just to stick with them. We've got to understand the bad news before we can give the good news. And then the final two parts of ACON is where I'm trying to form a group where the R of the ACON, after the O of the obey,
00:14:31
Speaker
The R of the A-Con is we report to two or three, three or four other Christians, and we tell them, you know, kind of what happened when we went on mission. The old-fashioned word, of course, for report is testimony. We testify. And then the final bit together as a group of Christians is the N, which is we notice. We notice what God was doing in us, and we notice what God was doing
00:15:00
Speaker
through us this process brings together evangelism and formation evangelism and discipleship really really important christy now i love the way that um
00:15:12
Speaker
You've coupled those two things together, Michael. I'm with you. I'm absolutely convinced that evangelism and discipleship belong together because part of your growing as a Christian is being willing and being confident to share that with others. I love that acorn model as well. But a question, one thing I've noticed,
00:15:33
Speaker
as I travel around the country, I often come across people who feel that they're the only person in their church who are passionate about evangelism. They can often feel quite lonely, they can feel quite isolated. Have you learned any ways in which people could actually find ways to plug themselves together into those little groups whereby they can start reporting, they can start being accountable? How can people find others who have the same passion for evangelism as they do or encourage more people in their churches?
00:16:01
Speaker
to get excited about this. Are there any sort of things that you've learned or tips that you could share? Well, again, if it's truly the case that there is only you in your kind of congregation, then do kind of contact me via weekendofinvitation.com. And I'd love to kind of plug you into an ACON group that's taking place. But I would also kind of caution that it's only you.
00:16:29
Speaker
Because God, I think, from a biblical perspective, tends to actually kind of come for people who don't think they can do mission with God. You know, most of the Bible characters, as I said earlier, were kind of regretful as to why they shouldn't do it. You know, Moses said, I'm slow as speech and tongue. Gideon said, I'm the least of the least. Esther.
00:16:59
Speaker
didn't want to go. Abram, as soon as he left his father's house, he's plunged into a famine and he's basically giving his wife away to Pharaoh. We've all got where we're frozen in our relationship with God and God is about unfreezing us.
00:17:25
Speaker
So never give up on people who look as if they are perhaps not passionate for going on mission with God because God is in the business of unfreezing people. Andy. Thank you, Michael. That's such a good encouragement to us all that God is in the mission of unfreezing people. Do you have any stories of God at work, Michael, that you could share with us?
A Story of Unexpected Evangelism
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, just recently, one of the ACON groups, I mean, I must have hundreds of people now kind of participating, but one in particular, a story of a really introverted guy who I know this is on the first kind of three weeks of an ACON group. And the first two weeks, you know, he told everybody else in the ACON group, well, you know, when I asked God, was there somebody God was calling
00:18:22
Speaker
him to connect with, absolutely nobody came to mind. And, you know, as always, you know, with me, that's absolutely kind of fine, no problem whatsoever. Well, on the third week, he basically kind of comes back and he's beaming. He's absolutely kind of beaming, because all of a sudden, somebody came to mind, a colleague of his that he hadn't seen in many, many years came to mind. And so he picked up the phone to her.
00:18:52
Speaker
And, um, and, and she answered and she said, she said to him, I've not spoken to anybody in three weeks. Um, and my next door neighbor has, uh, had died of, of COVID. So I'm so grateful that you've rung me. Well, my goodness, you know, all of a sudden that introverted guy who thought that God, you know, kind of wouldn't call, call him.
00:19:21
Speaker
and that he had nobody to actually call. All of a sudden, God intervened. And I'm seeing this all of the time. And when we just, you know, kind of by faith, pray that prayer and keep aware, all of a sudden, you know, God comes forward with a massive surprise. It's surprise after surprise after surprise.
00:19:48
Speaker
That's such a great point to bring the show to a close on Michael. I love that idea there, and I've seen that in so many stories too, that people who think that God can't use them, suddenly he breaks through and does use them, and it's transformative, both in terms of the person they were to connect with, but they're in Christian faith too.
00:20:06
Speaker
Thank you. You've encouraged us and I hopefully give listeners lots of food for thought. I encourage everybody listening to check out weekendofinvitation.com. There's lots of resources there. And Michael, it's been a real pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for making the time for us this afternoon. Thank you for inviting me. We're thrilled to have had you. Thank you so much. And Christian, are we back in two weeks time with another guest and another episode of PepTalk. Thanks for listening.