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Episode 56 - The Art War: Is "community" a lie? (w/ Jet Tamburri)
1.7k Plays11 days ago
We’re told the art world is a supportive community, but behind the scenes, is it really? This episode strips away everything to get at the question of openness vs territorialism and defensiveness in the arts, and we have both our perennial favorite Keith Johnson, who makes a living sharing his knowledge, and his brother-in-law, Jet Tamburri, an exceptionally talented and experienced tattoo artist who came up through the school of hard knocks to own his own successful tattoo shop. WHAT. AN. EPIOSDE.
To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon: (http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467)
JET's fantastic work:
https://www.triadtattoos.com/
https://www.instagram.com/triadtattoos/
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I thought about writing a sophisticated and flowery opening for today. And then after rereading it, I said, fuck it. Let's get straight to the point. Why do some people openly share their technical knowledge and designs and art while others are more defensive, guarding that knowledge like a coveted trade secret?
00:00:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The answer to this question is a complex, layered, and chronological story about how the arts have changed over time. Let's hurt some feelings today.
00:00:34
jet tamburri
Ha ha.
00:00:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, hello and welcome back to your favorite podcast. This is Woodworking is Bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper of Copper Pig Woodworking, scientist by day, woodworker by night. And of course, in the chair, my boy, Eric Curtis, fine furniture maker and content creator.
00:01:04
DEFENSE
Is
00:01:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And everybody's favorite, my favorite, Eric's favorite, Jet's favorite, Keith, everyone's favorite, Johnson.
00:01:12
Keith
Wow.
00:01:13
DEFENSE
is that what the J stands for?
00:01:13
Keith
It's news to me. Yeah.
00:01:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And with us today for this special episode is Jet Tambori, who happens to be Keith's brother-in-law. Jet is an accomplished tattoo artist from Philly, and he has
00:01:30
DEFENSE
go birds.
00:01:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and
00:01:31
jet tamburri
Go birds.
00:01:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and Jet has some definite experience on this topic of territorialism and defensiveness in the arts. Jet, welcome to the show today.
00:01:33
Keith
ah
00:01:42
jet tamburri
How's going, fellas?
00:01:43
DEFENSE
Thanks for coming on, buddy.
00:01:45
jet tamburri
Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.
00:01:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So ah this topic has something, you know, we've we've kind of talked about ah for some time. we've We've talked about territorialism in terms of copying. That was our very first episode of the podcast ever was copying.
00:02:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I think it's a lot bigger than that because that's only one part of this much larger conversation, which is like, how open are you? Do you share relationships? Or are is is it more like a trade secret and you guard it? And I think, you know, talking with Eric before the episode, it became clear to me that historically, at least,
00:02:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think if you think about medieval guilds and like, you know, ah experts, you know, in painting and the and the various maker craft, it has always been a closely guarded secret. Those guilds were not were not advertising how they did their shit on every street corner. So I'd like to just start, Eric, you know, you you seem to resonate very deeply with that idea that for for so long with with humans and art, it's it's always been a closely guarded secret how to do the thing.
00:02:53
DEFENSE
Well, I mean, i i think as soon as money becomes involved, then people become defensive about the things they know and what they share and what's interesting about the moment we live. And again, we were talking about this kind of on the pre-call.
00:03:08
DEFENSE
we're in a unique moment where that's flipping on its head. And I don't think it's necessarily started with the Internet and with YouTube, but it's become much more profitable since the advent of YouTube that sharing your knowledge is the income rather than the making of the thing.
00:03:24
DEFENSE
So, um yeah, I mean, the the history of woodworking is is flooded with people who, when other crafts folk would come into the shop, would throw blankets over the pieces that they were making so that they couldn't see the piece in progress and dissect how they got to the end goal.
00:03:42
DEFENSE
Like, that's that's the tradition we've come from. And now, you know, we live in an age where you can Google just about anything and find out how it's done.
00:03:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, the information age has definitely flipped things on its head. So Jet, you know, you you definitely have a unique experience from, think, anyone we've we've never had anyone tattoo on the show ever, right, Eric?
00:04:05
DEFENSE
No?
00:04:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jett, welcome. You're our first tattoo artist ever.
00:04:07
Keith
Nuh-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah.
00:04:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Jett, tell us a little bit about you, how you got into tattooing and like ah a little bit of of your experience. And then tell us what you see about territorialism in the tattoo world.
00:04:23
jet tamburri
So I was kind of lucky when I started. I started in the mid to late ninety s i grew up in the field in Philadelphia and was heavily involved in graffiti.
00:04:34
jet tamburri
So I was out there painting walls and, you know, I had a bunch of friends that got arrested.
00:04:35
DEFENSE
Oh,
00:04:42
jet tamburri
So I said to myself, I'm not going to jail or getting a fine heavily for this shit. So what I did was I started looking around and I saw a bunch of the little corner store of bodegas, which I'm sure you see still, that have tons of shit all over them.
00:04:57
jet tamburri
So I said, you know what? Let me go ask this guy he'll let me paint his wall. So I went... painted a wall. He let me paint a whole side of his place and that turned into different permit walls all throughout the city. And I had two Spanish twins walk up to me and asked me to paint their tattoo shop.
00:05:17
DEFENSE
hmm
00:05:18
jet tamburri
So while painting that, they asked me if I ever wanted to learn. Quickly realized that they were just trying to have people working there to pay their dad back who fronted the money for their shop.
00:05:27
DEFENSE
hmm
00:05:28
jet tamburri
So I kind of got in pretty easily.
00:05:29
Keith
Bye.
00:05:30
jet tamburri
But back then it was, you know, Philadelphia was predominantly bikers. They call it biker run. So it was kind of crazy, which I did end up working for.
00:05:43
jet tamburri
And was involved in a lot of that shit. And that's why why I ended up in Vermont, just to clear my head. And I looked in the mirror one and said, I'm going end up in jail or in prison. You know, I rode bikes and I rode around with these guys, but I wasn't trying to patch in. i had no interest in that shit.
00:06:00
jet tamburri
But my friends friends did. And yeah, just it was just crazy. So long story short.
00:06:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah both Eric and I are smiling like Cheshire cats wondering like what the hell's going on man
00:06:08
jet tamburri
ah
00:06:09
DEFENSE
Well, I'm also I'm also thinking about like walking around my neighborhood and, and you know, between my house in the shop.
00:06:09
Keith
Ha
00:06:09
jet tamburri
but
00:06:16
DEFENSE
um We've got like just the the hordes of people like it's usually after sunset in the summer that just like, you know, the but the biker gangs that roll through.
00:06:27
DEFENSE
And I'm like, I was about to say, like, how how many of my boys do you know rolling down Aramengo?
00:06:28
jet tamburri
I can name them all.
00:06:29
Keith
ha ha ha
00:06:30
jet tamburri
ah
00:06:32
Keith
ah
00:06:32
jet tamburri
ah
00:06:33
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:06:34
jet tamburri
I know a lot of them. i Like I said, some of them some of them aren't here anymore. You know what i mean? like
00:06:39
DEFENSE
Mmm,
00:06:40
jet tamburri
There's instances where people got clipped off and that's why I was like, okay.
00:06:45
DEFENSE
Gotta get out. Get out the game.
00:06:47
jet tamburri
I got a, well, I wasn't in the game. I was in the game, but not, not in the game with, yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have the belt and the, and the vest, but I was pretty goddamn close, you know?
00:06:51
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:06:51
DEFENSE
You were game adjacent.
00:06:52
Keith
ah
00:06:53
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:06:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:06:57
Keith
ah
00:06:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, the underwear.
00:06:59
jet tamburri
ah Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:06:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. All right. And so how long did you do tattooing there for?
00:07:02
jet tamburri
Fine.
00:07:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
has it been straight through ever since?
00:07:06
jet tamburri
Oh yeah. So like, obviously the beginning years, it was, am I going to be able to do this? I did some other things, work with some friends, do some different, but I'd say, probably around 2002, three is when it was just non, like it's been nonstop from there.
00:07:23
jet tamburri
So I've seen a bunch of different stuff. Like you said, back then people didn't want to teach you stuff, but because,
00:07:31
DEFENSE
Well, let's let's let's start there. I'm curious about that. So you're you're trying to break into tattooing in the early 90s, mid-90s.
00:07:37
jet tamburri
mm hmm yeah.
00:07:41
DEFENSE
And you start working at the shop. Somebody there took you under their wing, showed you kind of the basics of the trade.
00:07:48
jet tamburri
Sure sure.
00:07:49
DEFENSE
And then you're trying to... like I don't know enough about the field of tattooing to understand how the development of kind of your voice, for lack of a better way to phrase it, develops.
00:07:56
jet tamburri
hmm.
00:08:01
DEFENSE
So at that point, are you tattooing in a bunch of different traditions? Are you doing American traditional? Are you doing like, like it put me in that headspace when where you are in the early 90s?
00:08:13
DEFENSE
What type of shit are you tattooing? And what type of clientele are you having?
00:08:17
jet tamburri
so in So the first shop, the two Spanish brothers, that was more of like a like gangster type shop. theres I was doing like old English letters, like people that were, you know, so I had free range just of skin because they're people getting out of prison.
00:08:25
DEFENSE
Mm.
00:08:27
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:08:35
jet tamburri
They didn't care. This guy's coming up and hey, you want to get a free tattoo?
00:08:37
DEFENSE
Mm.
00:08:40
jet tamburri
They didn't give a shit.
00:08:41
DEFENSE
Oh, so you're doing it for free.
00:08:41
jet tamburri
So I was able...
00:08:41
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:08:43
jet tamburri
So at first when you're apprentice, I was doing just free tattoos to learn, but that's what you need when you start out.
00:08:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What?
00:08:49
DEFENSE
Mm.
00:08:49
jet tamburri
Picture what you guys do, right? If you had a shit ton of wood and you could just burn it up and ruin all the wood you could, you could you'd figure it out.
00:08:51
DEFENSE
Mm.
00:08:55
DEFENSE
Yeah. Yeah. ah Sure, sure, sure.
00:08:57
jet tamburri
You know what I mean?
00:08:58
Keith
ah
00:08:58
jet tamburri
but But when you know when you don't have skin to work on, you can't really figure it out. It's a diff it's art, but it's a different medium. It's not like a brush.
00:09:09
jet tamburri
It's a moving canvas. It's bleeding on you. You know, you bleed. You're like, ah, you know what I'm saying?
00:09:14
DEFENSE
Sure.
00:09:14
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:09:15
jet tamburri
So it's just... it's Having a ton of people to work on helps you in the early stages. But back then it was tribal, shit on the wall.
00:09:26
jet tamburri
oh I like that one. You know what i mean? People just picked. Then, you know, Batman was a thing and Ren and Stimpy was a thing.
00:09:32
DEFENSE
ah ah Hold on!
00:09:33
jet tamburri
people i My buddy got... but my
00:09:35
DEFENSE
How many red and simpy tattoos have you done?
00:09:38
jet tamburri
When I was 16, I went in, I got a little tribal thing that I drew up that was my graffiti name. And my buddy got, I think it was either Ren or Stimpy popping out of a hole on his back of his...
00:09:49
DEFENSE
Fucking amazing.
00:09:50
jet tamburri
ah
00:09:50
DEFENSE
No notes, it's perfect.
00:09:52
Keith
ah
00:09:52
jet tamburri
No, it was just like, it was just crazy. But back then it was kind of weird because... Back then, you know, all these guys were just trying to have people working for them, right?
00:10:02
jet tamburri
So they didn't care.
00:10:03
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:10:03
jet tamburri
They were bringing people in. Then it hit like the tat boom, which we call it in like the early 2000s, where it started to get more art and more, you know, it started to get lot different and and more lucrative too. So that's when I think people started to kind of, you know, they were kind of gatekeeping.
00:10:22
jet tamburri
Gatekeeping is what they call it in ours is, you know, trying to keep it from other people and shit like that. So it was a lot tougher.
00:10:27
DEFENSE
What, what were they, what were they trying to keep specifically? Was it a technique? Was it a design? Like what?
00:10:34
jet tamburri
I think, i think if if I had to guess, I think the fact that there were shops opening up all over the place. And they were trying to keep it closed so that people, because think about it.
00:10:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:10:47
jet tamburri
Somebody comes in, you teach them everything you know, and they say, all right, fuck you. And they go down the street and open up a shop. Well, now you have a competitor right there.
00:10:54
DEFENSE
Sure. Sure.
00:10:55
jet tamburri
And that's where, I mean, there was people in Philadelphia that tried to now, actually, i don't know if it's still a thing because I haven't been there forever, but it got so bad with so many people moving there and opening up shops and tattooing that they put in a you have to be an apprentice.
00:10:55
DEFENSE
Sure.
00:11:12
jet tamburri
So I would have to sign for you as an of my apprentice for two years, and then you would get your license. And that's how it's kind of that's,
00:11:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's gatekeeping.
00:11:19
DEFENSE
a
00:11:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's gatekeeping.
00:11:20
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:11:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
00:11:20
jet tamburri
yeah
00:11:20
DEFENSE
Mmm. the The tattoo artists banded together. Like, almost, for lack of a better way to phrase it, like, unionized.
00:11:25
jet tamburri
No, the city.
00:11:26
DEFENSE
Oh, the city did.
00:11:28
jet tamburri
Yeah, the city of Philadelphia did. So if you're familiar with, I don't want to say names, but the two main people in Philadelphia, one of them, he went to the city and he put in these laws that you weren't able to have a tattoo shop within 300 feet or 500 feet of a church or a school.
00:11:31
DEFENSE
Mmm.
00:11:48
jet tamburri
or you And then you had to... Yeah, same thing. you had to You had to prove that you were tattooing before 2000 or you had to be an apprentice of somebody. And you had to work in their shop with them under them for two years.
00:12:01
jet tamburri
So that kind of like instead of signing like a non-compete type of thing.
00:12:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:12:06
jet tamburri
So, but yeah, I mean, it was crazy. It was a but bit of an ass, but yeah.
00:12:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, you know, I just, I just, I just came back.
00:12:13
Keith
Ha.
00:12:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah. So that whole idea of apprenticeship, I just came back from Europe and everyone who knew I was a like the people who I mentioned, I was a woodworker. They were always quick to tell me, yeah, they were quick to tell me like, you have to go through a rigorous like four year multi-step process to become a quote unquote woodworker and only woodworkers could do work on like commercial establishments.
00:12:24
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:24
DEFENSE
Where'd you train? Yeah.
00:12:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And if you saw like there was a pergola, we were sitting outside in Switzerland and there was this random ass pergola, right? Just at some random ass restaurant. And I tell you, it was so exquisitely done.
00:12:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Every corner was chamfered. Everything was perfect. I thought maybe Keith did it. And, uh,
00:12:57
DEFENSE
ah There was no brass inlaid in there.
00:12:58
Keith
No, because i was it didn't take 100 years to build.
00:13:00
DEFENSE
Come on Yeah, yeah.
00:13:02
Keith
na
00:13:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
No, it but it seems like that almost like rolling back, Jet, to like the the apprenticeship guild journeyman mentality.
00:13:04
Keith
ah
00:13:11
DEFENSE
I was going to say the way he was describing it sounded very guild mentality of like,
00:13:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
mentality
00:13:16
jet tamburri
Oh, yeah. I mean, people still, but now like, okay. And the other thing too is here's the other thing. If to order in order to buy supplies, you had to work and prove that you worked at a tattoo shop. You just couldn't buy supplies anywhere.
00:13:31
jet tamburri
Nowadays, you can buy them on Amazon. So you guys all three could go on Amazon buy machines and be tattooing each other Keith could be tattooing the rest of your sleeve if you wanted to Yeah,
00:13:34
Keith
go.
00:13:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:13:39
Keith
ah
00:13:39
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:13:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God.
00:13:40
Keith
i
00:13:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
kid
00:13:42
DEFENSE
Woo!
00:13:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That sounded like an invitation, Jet.
00:13:45
DEFENSE
That's it.
00:13:45
Keith
ah
00:13:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:13:47
DEFENSE
Only if it's Ren and Stimpy related though.
00:13:49
Keith
yeah
00:13:49
jet tamburri
yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure Yeah, so that shit has changed within like
00:13:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Keith, where...
00:13:54
Keith
it's good
00:13:58
jet tamburri
I don't know. Probably, i mean, just, I don't know. a lot of that shit was coming over from China and they just said, screw this shit. So they started selling it. I mean, you could just, because even like the companies that were buying it, you could go online, but you had to prove that you were a tattoo artist.
00:14:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, so there was gatekeeping in terms of like apprenticeship now.
00:14:13
Keith
Mm-mm.
00:14:13
jet tamburri
You could...
00:14:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Laboon brought with it apprenticeship gatekeeping and materials gatekeeping. Yeah?
00:14:21
jet tamburri
Well, yes, it was trying to control, like, for instance, Florida, Arizona, same thing. You don't need, there's no health regulations there.
00:14:30
DEFENSE
Well, sure.
00:14:30
jet tamburri
So like in, in
00:14:30
DEFENSE
i mean, you can snort bath salts like you're doing just fine in Florida.
00:14:32
Keith
ah ah
00:14:34
jet tamburri
In Philadelphia and here in Arizona, we have to have the health department come in and and inspect us. Inspect us. You know what I'm saying? they have You can tattoo wherever the hell you want, but you can't yeah you can't you can't have a license or work in a shop or stuff like that.
00:14:41
DEFENSE
ah
00:14:49
jet tamburri
And it's illegal. So if you're tattooing out of your house, you can get in trouble. I don't know. Slap on the wrist. I don't really know what they'll do, but... But it's funny what you were talking about when you said over in when you were overseas that you have to have a whole like, is that just a work on?
00:14:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, and then go ahead.
00:15:05
jet tamburri
Is that can you just work out of your house and stuff like that? Or do is that like actual career type stuff? You can't do it at all.
00:15:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think it's it's like, no, I think you have to go to school and have ah a proper like apprenticeship with a master for a certain number of years and then you're allowed to work.
00:15:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then I think there's some more regulate. Eric, you probably know more about this.
00:15:24
DEFENSE
Yeah, you're not you're not allowed to sell furniture as an individual unless you are licensed in most Europe.
00:15:31
jet tamburri
Okay, that makes sense.
00:15:33
DEFENSE
i And I don't know about the whole of Europe, but but most, we'll say, Germanic culture countries.
00:15:36
jet tamburri
Hmm.
00:15:40
DEFENSE
ah So like you you have to basically like go through an apprenticeship, become a master woodworker, then get your licensure, and then and only then are you allowed to sell like a fucking table.
00:15:41
Keith
Hmm.
00:15:52
DEFENSE
You know, so like over over here.
00:15:53
jet tamburri
Well, they probably saw shallow hell and the fucking seat went blue out and shit like that.
00:15:58
Keith
ah ah
00:16:00
jet tamburri
Because that's the same thing with welding, right?
00:16:02
DEFENSE
ah That's
00:16:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thank you.
00:16:03
jet tamburri
You could be a welder. I've got i've got a welder in my garage.
00:16:06
DEFENSE
that's that's the first shallow Hal reference on this podcast.
00:16:08
Keith
Yeah.
00:16:08
jet tamburri
ah
00:16:09
DEFENSE
That's fucking what a cut.
00:16:10
Keith
ah
00:16:10
DEFENSE
What a cut. Yeah.
00:16:13
jet tamburri
I mean, i like I said, i've I've got a welder. I can weld shit together. I fix my exhaust.
00:16:18
DEFENSE
yeah
00:16:19
jet tamburri
But can I go weld structures together where people are going to be like, at you know, at risk of getting hurt and shit like that? No.
00:16:26
DEFENSE
Well, that's that's the difference between like ah a commercial license and just selling thing to something to an individual right over here.
00:16:33
jet tamburri
yeah. Yeah.
00:16:34
DEFENSE
So like anybody can build a table and then sell it on Etsy. And then if it falls apart, they run the risk of potentially getting sued, which is why we have LLCs and S-Corps and everything else.
00:16:39
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:16:46
DEFENSE
Over there, i don't know what like the the kind of lawsuit situation is, but you are not allowed to put a table up for sale insofar as I understand it.
00:16:57
DEFENSE
Obviously, I could be wrong unless you have gone through the proper training.
00:17:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. So Jet, what happened? So I understand like the boom occurred, some gatekeeping was put in place to kind of control the proliferation of unchecked.
00:17:07
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then like, what happened since then? Like, where how where are we today and how did we get there?
00:17:17
jet tamburri
So today we are in a screw this place. I've got clientele and I'm just going to go open up a private studio. That's where we're at today.
00:17:28
Keith
Hmm.
00:17:29
jet tamburri
And because people, all they care about is money. And why do I have to give this person part of my percentages? I just want all my money to myself. So I'm going to go into a private studio. And that's fine.
00:17:39
jet tamburri
If you have, you built yourself and you have a great clientele and all that, that's great. The problem is, is that if you bring somebody in as an apprentice, right? Why, if I've been tattooing since 97, over 25 years, why would I give all my knowledge to somebody and then send them out the door?
00:17:54
DEFENSE
Well
00:17:57
jet tamburri
So for me, if somebody says apprentice, I just, I like look around like, did I hear something? Because i don't, you know, right now I don't own a shop, so I can't, I don't have a spot for them, number one.
00:18:10
jet tamburri
Number two, if an i even if I did, you have two options. One option one is you sign a non-compete that you're gonna stay there with me for five years, or you're gonna give me a large sum of money where if you decide in a year that you're gone, well, that's fine, you just paid me because I just gave you something and a career that you could take anywhere in anywhere, anywhere overseas, anywhere.
00:18:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:18:33
jet tamburri
anywhere in the US anywhere
00:18:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:18:35
DEFENSE
So this is, this is really interesting. Can we talk more about like the structure that's set up for an apprentice? Cause you effectively, what you said is like you bring in an apprentice or an employee or whoever it is, and you own a shop and, uh, that person pays you a cut of their, you know, somebody pays a thousand dollars for, for tat and they give you a cut of that.
00:18:47
jet tamburri
Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm
00:18:58
jet tamburri
Normally when you come in it's 50 50 yeah, uh-huh
00:19:01
DEFENSE
It's 50, 50.
00:19:02
jet tamburri
Well, if you come in write it right off the bat, right? Normally how this is, this is how apprenticeships, this is how it normally works, right? You come in and I start teaching you, okay? You don't make shit. You don't touch a machine. You don't do shit. You work at the shop.
00:19:20
jet tamburri
in return for me teaching you how to work on stuff. You're checking things out, you're learning how the machines work, you're learning everything in here. Same thing with you guys, you're learning all these machines, how to do this, how to do that.
00:19:31
jet tamburri
You're talking to customers,
00:19:31
DEFENSE
Yeah, but this is this is why it's interesting because this system doesn't exist in our world anymore.
00:19:36
DEFENSE
This is why I want to hear you talk about it.
00:19:38
Keith
Hmm. Hmm.
00:19:39
jet tamburri
Yeah, and I mean, so in ah in my world, that's normally what you do, right?
00:19:45
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:19:45
jet tamburri
so And that's how it was growing up in all the shops. You came in, the apprentice worked the front, he talked to the clients, he set everything up, he even set up the machines, he broke them down.
00:19:56
jet tamburri
He was basically a shop bitch. He did all the cleaning, he did all that stuff. And then once he was ready to start tattooing, maybe two years, whatever, a year, or two years, to pay oh yeah, depending on what it it what it was, Then they would start to tattoo.
00:20:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:20:11
jet tamburri
They would thank you. They would start working on smaller things. And yes, it was normally like a 50-50 split. We cover the supplies, all that stuff. And then you start tattooing, but you're making money.
00:20:22
jet tamburri
Most of these guys had other jobs. They would come in when they could, or they slept on couches.
00:20:26
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:20:27
jet tamburri
They fucking made it work because they wanted to be in the industry.
00:20:31
DEFENSE
Sure.
00:20:31
jet tamburri
But now... weve We had an apprentice one time at the shop and then it was like a month and they're like, when am I going to start tattooing? I'm like, motherfucker, never.
00:20:41
Keith
yeah
00:20:41
jet tamburri
it With that attitude, you're not going to start tattooing.
00:20:41
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:20:44
jet tamburri
You know what i mean?
00:20:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:20:44
Keith
and
00:20:45
jet tamburri
So it's just crazy. And now, like I said, you it's everything's easily accessible. You can order shit from anywhere. I mean, I've got a story. I don't know how graphic I can go on this bitch, but...
00:20:57
Keith
ah
00:20:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, let's go.
00:20:57
DEFENSE
Please, please, go for it.
00:20:59
jet tamburri
This fucking guy, this this is how crazy this shit is.
00:21:00
Keith
ah
00:21:02
jet tamburri
This guy comes in and he's got like this weird t-shirt, shorts. I'm like, this motherfucker's got bodies in his goddamn, in his basement, right?
00:21:10
Keith
yeah
00:21:12
jet tamburri
I just called it out. He was fucking crazy.
00:21:14
DEFENSE
ah
00:21:15
jet tamburri
So sure enough, he comes in for this tattoo. He met this Russian chick overseas and she liked the color red and he wanted to get a scorpion on his junk and the tail going down onto his dick.
00:21:29
jet tamburri
So I just was like, yo, you guys can have that shit. I fucking leave.
00:21:34
Keith
Ahahahahahahaha.
00:21:36
jet tamburri
And I, I, I,
00:21:38
Keith
ah
00:21:38
jet tamburri
That goes in one ear, out the other. i totally forget about it. I come back in and I'm hearing, like these curtains are closed. i'm not paying attention. I hear this moan and I'm like, is that fucking front desk girl watching porn?
00:21:49
jet tamburri
What the fuck is going on?
00:21:50
Keith
no
00:21:51
jet tamburri
This bitch, you you know, it's it's all rubber. You got to keep that thing hard to try and tattoo it. Anyway, they got through part of it.
00:21:57
DEFENSE
Ha ha ha.
00:21:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Bye.
00:21:59
jet tamburri
that That's not the best part. The girl who did it only got the outline done. His next appointment, she had to fly out of town. So he got bent out of shape and was all fucking pissed off because I guess Shlovanka was coming to town and he wanted that shit done.
00:22:16
Keith
Oh. Oh. Ah.
00:22:18
jet tamburri
So he comes in finally for his appointment and she told me that it was all choppy and somebody tried to fucking fill it in. She asked him, his cousin ordered a machine on Amazon and tried to fill it in for him.
00:22:30
Keith
oh
00:22:32
jet tamburri
So that's how accessible these fucking, our our supplies are these days. Psychopaths can have their cousins fill in their dick tattoos and shit.
00:22:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric.
00:22:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric.
00:22:42
jet tamburri
but
00:22:44
DEFENSE
That's the t-shirt we're making from this episode right there.
00:22:45
Keith
ah yeah
00:22:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, when Jed suggested we tattoo each other...
00:22:48
jet tamburri
Crazy.
00:22:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:22:51
jet tamburri
yeah There you go.
00:22:51
Keith
ah Yeah.
00:22:53
jet tamburri
There you go.
00:22:53
Keith
That's not what he meant.
00:22:54
DEFENSE
Just the root though. Just the root.
00:22:55
Keith
Yeah. Jesus.
00:22:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Keith, I have some ideas for us, big guy.
00:22:58
Keith
Jesus. No. Where are we going to put the tattoo of Jerry and Lola?
00:23:03
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:23:04
Keith
Hmm.
00:23:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Well, well Jet, um first of all, the the part you said about the the younger generation being like, I've been here a month, what the fuck, right? That totally jives with like the entitlement of the younger generations.
00:23:13
jet tamburri
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
They are not they are not used to the long wait time and the long...
00:23:16
jet tamburri
Oh, yeah, yeah. No.
00:23:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you know they they They want a seat at the table because mommy and daddy told me I'm special my whole life and I'm ready.
00:23:22
Keith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I want a seat at the table now. I don't think they're in general and I'm generalizing. I'm sure there's plenty of great young people out there who want to work hard for a long period of time. But that jives with what I've noticed about.
00:23:39
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:23:39
jet tamburri
I haven't met them.
00:23:40
DEFENSE
now ah
00:23:40
jet tamburri
I haven't met them at all. Everybody just wants it now.
00:23:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:23:43
jet tamburri
I mean, it's instant gratification. It's fucking stupid.
00:23:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so so then where So then where are we today in terms of like the tattoo world?
00:23:45
jet tamburri
You know, you got to put the time in.
00:23:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Are we like, is the apprentice system dead or is it shifted significantly?
00:23:57
jet tamburri
I mean, there's people that still take apprentices. um I'll see them online. People asking, know, still, you know, looking for one, but it's very rare. I mean, I think people have gotten such a bad taste in their mouth and there's no um respect anymore. There's no people don't respect the industry. They don't respect the people that are doing it. I mean, somebody is going to willing to teach you.
00:24:18
jet tamburri
you know, you you would think that you would want to stay with that person because they they've given you, you know, the opportunity to work in their shop. So you want to stay with them, right? No, they're just fuck you.
00:24:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:24:29
jet tamburri
I'm out, you know, so I think it's just.
00:24:30
DEFENSE
So if somebody wants to get into tattooing now, how do they go about doing that? Is it like, is, is the path of least resist?
00:24:37
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:24:39
DEFENSE
And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not making a defense for this.
00:24:40
Keith
YouTube.
00:24:42
DEFENSE
Yeah. But like, this is generally, genuinely what I'm wondering is the path of least resistance then given the way that you just framed that to order a machine off of Amazon and start tattooing your friends.
00:24:42
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:24:52
jet tamburri
It's funny you say that because that is the flip side of the coin, right?
00:24:56
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:24:56
jet tamburri
The girl at the coffee shop that I go to has asked me, hey, you know, asked me about an apprenticeship and asked me how to get into one.
00:25:03
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:05
jet tamburri
Number one, I took my coffee and left. I was like, good luck.
00:25:08
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:25:09
Keith
Ha ha ha ha
00:25:10
jet tamburri
But then kind of felt bad and I kind of I talked to She showed me her artwork and and everything. And I literally told her, I said, listen, you have two options. One option. One is go around and ask everybody if they're not somebody will take somebody in.
00:25:23
jet tamburri
I said, option two is buy a machine and just start scratching on your boyfriend or whoever else is going to let you because. That's pretty much the only way to do it. You know, if nobody, cause who am I to say that you can't become a tattoo artist, you know, excuse me.
00:25:36
DEFENSE
Sure.
00:25:37
jet tamburri
I'm not going to teach you because I don't trust anybody with that shit, but, and I'm trying to keep myself busy and the industry is so crazy.
00:25:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jet, Jet, wait, Jet.
00:25:46
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:25:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
let me let let me Let me ask you right there.
00:25:46
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:25:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Because I, you said, because I don't trust anybody with this my shit. What does that really mean? Can you decode that for me?
00:25:55
jet tamburri
So, like I said, I've been doing it forever. I've seen i've seen it all. I've done it all. I've i've tattooed. I've been through every fad, every new machine, every everything.
00:26:07
jet tamburri
I've been through it all.
00:26:07
DEFENSE
I mean, Dick Scorpion is all you have to tell me.
00:26:09
Keith
Oh, yeah.
00:26:09
jet tamburri
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:09
Keith
yeah yeah
00:26:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ha ha ha ha!
00:26:09
DEFENSE
you know like
00:26:10
jet tamburri
Yeah. I've seen i've seen it all. i've no all you know I feel like, I mean, you're always learning. You're always seeing new tricks sometimes. There's new tricks. Some shit I'm like, yeah, that's going to look like dog shit.
00:26:22
jet tamburri
You know what i mean? But all this fine line micro tattoos, dog shit. They're all going to be blobs on people's skins. You know what i mean? but and And I talk to people that do that stuff and it's funny. They say, the picture's not for you. It's for the people that are looking at it So basically give them some shit that's going to look like crap in five years.
00:26:43
jet tamburri
And who cares? Take the picture because then you're going get more people that want to get that shit.
00:26:45
DEFENSE
Mmm. Mmm.
00:26:47
jet tamburri
When it's like, i no, I'm going to give you straight up that that's going to turn into a blob of shit, you know? And most of my clients are like, thank you.
00:26:53
DEFENSE
Mmm.
00:26:54
jet tamburri
Some of them fight me and say, no, I want this this big, you know? but But yeah, I mean, it's just... I've just seen, i've i've I've watched people, I've talked to people, and I've seen the people that have come into shops try and learn some shit, think they've got it figured. We think we have it in our own in our own spot.
00:27:16
jet tamburri
People think that they've got it figured out after a few years and they're just going to go off and do their own thing. And it's you know you're it's not it's not the way, you know what i mean? Yeah.
00:27:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, that that would be like the woodworkers who don't really understand the laws of proper joinery. Eric, I see you nodding. Expansion, contraction, and and and and wood movement.
00:27:30
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:31
Keith
Wood movement.
00:27:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And then they build tables and the tables break or they build cabinets and the cabinets break themselves apart because they didn't understand the finer points of joinery. Eric and Keith. Jett was like, yeah, i'm I'm not taking apprentices. That's not for me. It holds no value. There's value there. I don't mean but but for Jett, where he is, it doesn't make sense for him.
00:27:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric and Keith, how do you feel about taking apprentices?
00:28:01
Keith
I would not. And there's a reason for that.
00:28:03
jet tamburri
His face and his lip.
00:28:07
Keith
like Eric is a Juilliard-trained furniture maker from the Center of Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine, right? Taught the right ways to do things.
00:28:13
DEFENSE
Juilliard.
00:28:17
Keith
I am self-taught. like ah I can get from A to B, but it's not always a straight line. And I don't always know the correct way. I can always figure out a way to get there.
00:28:28
DEFENSE
there's There's no fucking correct way, buddy. Get over that.
00:28:31
Keith
Sometimes there is. there's ah There's a better way or an easier way. or And sometimes I'm like, you know, my videos are like, this should work, but I don't know. I mean, it happened to you, right?
00:28:43
Keith
You had an unexplicable wood movement issue on one of your tables, right? The thing just split, broke.
00:28:49
DEFENSE
Hmm...
00:28:50
Keith
Like, you have no idea why.
00:28:50
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:28:51
Keith
So sometimes... You can build something that defies the laws of furniture making and wood movement. And you're like, whoa it worked. it's cool. And then the next time you do it, it doesn't work. The best thing you can do is to set yourself up for success is do things the right way, figuring out movement, wood movement, how they this way, that way. But to take on some and I am also being self-taught like safety is generally not my first concern.
00:29:18
Keith
ah ah look
00:29:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Nya ha ha ha ha!
00:29:20
jet tamburri
Ha ha ha.
00:29:21
Keith
ah Larissa will tell you that like push sticks, I think push sticks are firewood. like I don't want to use a push stick. My thumb and forefinger, those are my push sticks.
00:29:31
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:29:34
Keith
And I used a push stick last night and it got me into trouble. I almost got kicked back because I was using a push stick. because it's slipping on the wood whereas my finger does not and i can't see the saw blade because the damn push stick is in the way so i can't see that the wood is coming away from the fence so you know in a lot of my videos i will use a push stick just for youtube and and if i remove a guard i'll say guard has been removed for visible vision you know for visible purposes or whatever um because people the
00:29:59
DEFENSE
Ah.
00:30:07
Keith
The safety police are out in numbers on YouTube. They love just ripping you apart for doing things unsafely. We're like free free handing on the table saw.
00:30:15
jet tamburri
Really?
00:30:16
DEFENSE
ah
00:30:17
jet tamburri
That's crazy.
00:30:17
Keith
That's how I was taught to scribe trim. There's nothing unsafe. There's it's unsafe if you do it wrong, but there's a right way to to free hand on the table saw.
00:30:25
jet tamburri
I never even thought about that.
00:30:28
DEFENSE
Sure is.
00:30:28
Keith
So that's why that's why when people ask, hey, I'd love to come over and you teach me. I'm like, not really. Like, I just don't like here buy by this book by fine woodworking where.
00:30:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:30:38
DEFENSE
KJ, we can we can we can listen, buddy, we can break down your emotional well-being off the call. But I think I think we need to have a conversation about this because, you know, more than 98 percent of people.
00:30:51
DEFENSE
Okay, you've built a lot of brilliant things and and you know I don't give out compliments as far as design and and craftsmanship like willy nilly.
00:30:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:30:52
Keith
I appreciate that.
00:31:01
DEFENSE
You know what the fuck you're doing.
00:31:01
Keith
All right.
00:31:03
DEFENSE
What I do think this is an issue of is being self-taught in the age of YouTube. There's what, what I can tell you definitively right now is there is no one right way to do anything.
00:31:09
Keith
Mm.
00:31:16
DEFENSE
There are faster and slower ways. There are more accurate and less accurate ways. There are ways to get shit done and there are ways to get shit done that will last, you know, an extra 50 years or a hundred years in the, in the grand scheme of things.
00:31:29
DEFENSE
But, um, Sam Maloof, who we all regard as one of the great woodworkers of the 20th century, excuse me,
00:31:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Great designers, anyway.
00:31:38
DEFENSE
ah Well, i but he's often held up as like one of the fathers of the studio craft movement. He was self-taught. He didn't know what the fuck he was doing. You ever see that asshole walk on, like use a bandsaw?
00:31:49
DEFENSE
like yeah Like Jesus fucking Christ. Like he was, he was, he had to like, how many times you almost cut his fingers off, you know?
00:31:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
His hands were close. I saw.
00:31:57
DEFENSE
But he also...
00:31:58
jet tamburri
Don't they have like stops? Like, doesn't it?
00:31:59
DEFENSE
No, that's, that's well, a, that didn't exist in his time.
00:32:00
jet tamburri
Okay,
00:32:03
DEFENSE
And B that's on a table soft, but that's like that.
00:32:05
jet tamburri
okay.
00:32:06
DEFENSE
He openly admitted the fact that he, he only knew the way to do it that he invented. And if you read any woodworking book by anybody who's like actually knew what they were doing was a lifelong teacher. Like take freed is a good example. He's got the, the, the, what is it? The working wood series or something of that nature. Um,
00:32:28
DEFENSE
Everything, every single technique in those books has multiple ways to do it. So there's no one way to do it.
00:32:33
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:32:36
DEFENSE
But anyway, in regards to taking on an apprentice, I think the obligation that a teacher has to a student is is twofold. Number one, to teach them what the teacher knows, right? Not to teach them everything, but simply to teach them what they know. And to assess what Now, this is coming from my background as a school teacher, not as somebody running a business with an apprentice, but to assess what the student is good at and give them more of that to accentuate their skill set, right? So that they can kind of follow their tools and and become a master in whatever category that they would best fit. If I'm running a business, that shifts slightly because I have to consider the business first and the apprentice is an employee.
00:33:26
DEFENSE
um the apprenticeship model doesn't usually work in woodworking anymore because all of that information is accessible, right?
00:33:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:33:37
DEFENSE
Like you can just Google it, you can just YouTube it and it's there. And now it's kind of in this, I think maybe this kind of sucks, but it's kind of incumbent upon you to come to an employer having already gone through part of the apprenticeship process because all of that information is there for you to learn. If you want to learn the basics of wood movement, it's on YouTube. If you want to learn how to use a table saw, it's on YouTube. If you want to learn how to cut a dovetail, fucking Google it. like That's on you. Come to me after you've done that and then i can start to get you at that late stage apprentice, early stage journeyman and we can have a conversation about like how do you run a business? How do you interact with clients? How do you build shit that's going to
00:34:25
DEFENSE
It's not it's no longer kitchen cabinets. It's now standalone furniture that's going last somewhere between 100 and 500 years. I think that's where I would consider taking on a quote apprentice, but that's not an apprentice anymore. So it's like that's just an employee at that point.
00:34:41
Keith
But the problem with hiring someone as an apprentice who has learned things from YouTube is who knows who they've been watching. There are plenty of charlatans out there who, ah yeah to use Paul's word, who are doing things wrong.
00:34:52
DEFENSE
Sure.
00:34:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
My favorite word.
00:34:57
Keith
how they there I mean, there is a wrong way to do. so I know I mentioned safety, but like pushing, you know, running your hand right over the blade of a jointer. Like there's certain places to put hands
00:35:08
DEFENSE
But that was...
00:35:11
Keith
And if you come in with like thinking, oh, you know how to use a table saw? Cool. Go ahead. And then you hear the saw, the frigging saw stop break go. Like what happened? Oh, I.
00:35:19
DEFENSE
Well, i that's a fair point.
00:35:20
Keith
Is
00:35:22
DEFENSE
But i I don't think that's any different from, let's call it 100 years ago. Somebody spends their apprenticeship with fucking, you know, Jack Dickey out here. And he, like, doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
00:35:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Who the hell's that?
00:35:34
DEFENSE
I don't know.
00:35:34
Keith
that a real person?
00:35:35
DEFENSE
Who fucking knows? That's not the important part.
00:35:37
Keith
ah
00:35:38
DEFENSE
joe old Old man Dickie's boy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
00:35:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Old daddy greenbacks.
00:35:41
DEFENSE
And so he teaches old daddy Greenback. He doesn't teach this this this young person ah proper technique on anything. it's just He's just trying to get shit out the door.
00:35:52
DEFENSE
And then this guy comes to you and he's like, well, I just did a five-year apprenticeship. And he comes into into your shop and he's like, yeah you don't know dick about anything.
00:35:59
Keith
Okay.
00:36:00
DEFENSE
You know? So I don't think that's any different.
00:36:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:36:03
DEFENSE
Like, there's no quality control in apprenticeships either because that's just based on who you got lucky enough to get hired by.
00:36:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:36:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right. So, so jet, it doesn't make sense for you based on where you are in your career, Keith, you don't feel like you have the formal education or the safety, or just even want that complexity or the time.
00:36:10
Keith
okay
00:36:22
Keith
Or the time. I can't even build something on my own in a timely manner.
00:36:24
DEFENSE
Well, there's that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:36:26
Keith
or Never mind having someone look over my shoulder.
00:36:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And,
00:36:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and, and,
00:36:31
Keith
Here's how to build something real. It takes six months. It should take you two weeks.
00:36:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right. And Eric wants an apprentice that's already fully trained.
00:36:40
Keith
ah
00:36:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
who
00:36:40
jet tamburri
Well, he made a good point.
00:36:41
DEFENSE
Yeah, I'm lazy, man.
00:36:41
jet tamburri
I mean, he made a good point. I mean, there's tons of tattoo how-tos online, too. I mean, there's a ton of videos on there.
00:36:47
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:36:49
jet tamburri
So a lot of people just look at that shit and just, you know, the difference between...
00:36:51
DEFENSE
Well, in...
00:36:52
Keith
But what do you practice on?
00:36:52
DEFENSE
in i so I've seen that on a website or three.
00:36:53
Keith
Do they make, like, ah prosthetic ah do they make prosthetic arms that you can practice on?
00:36:53
jet tamburri
Well, that's a difference. That's... hey yet They actually do. They're called Pound of Flesh.
00:36:59
Keith
Okay.
00:37:00
jet tamburri
And it's like, you could get a...
00:37:00
Keith
ah
00:37:02
jet tamburri
You could... Yes,
00:37:03
Keith
yeah Yeah.
00:37:04
jet tamburri
Yes, you have
00:37:05
DEFENSE
Man, don't know.
00:37:05
Keith
On my OnlyFans.
00:37:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric Eric that's for the after show wow
00:37:08
Keith
Jesus.
00:37:08
DEFENSE
ah
00:37:10
jet tamburri
yeah
00:37:10
Keith
Okay.
00:37:12
jet tamburri
But yeah, they actually make like a hand and an arm from like here up like and you can tattoo it and shit you could just buy the hand No, no, no, no, no.
00:37:19
Keith
But is it like an Etch-a-Sketch where you can shake it and it removes it and you can start all over? Or you have to like keep buying new ones?
00:37:23
jet tamburri
Well, that's That's yeah, exactly you do and it's the same thing.
00:37:27
DEFENSE
So, well, are those cost prohibitive to some extent?
00:37:27
jet tamburri
I mean if you're burning up They do have thin swatches that are like four by six. And I told people to put it around a thing of paper towels and tape it around it so that you can actually practice on that.
00:37:35
Keith
Okay.
00:37:42
jet tamburri
Because obviously skin is not flat, right? So just wrap it around that and tattoo it and throw it away.
00:37:45
Keith
Right.
00:37:45
DEFENSE
Yeah. Well, So what what I'm wondering is like, I guess part of the reason why I said what I said ah to maybe justify what I was saying and I sound so much like an asshole is is like A lot of well, but but a lot of people.
00:38:01
Keith
hu
00:38:03
jet tamburri
It's fish town. It's getting to you.
00:38:04
Keith
Yeah.
00:38:04
jet tamburri
It's seeping in your blood.
00:38:04
DEFENSE
it's ah ah oh I was listen.
00:38:06
jet tamburri
It's the water.
00:38:07
DEFENSE
I was an asshole long before I lived in Fishtown, buddy.
00:38:07
jet tamburri
It's the water.
00:38:07
Keith
Oh, yeah.
00:38:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and
00:38:08
Keith
The water. ah
00:38:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Go birds.
00:38:10
jet tamburri
it's the...
00:38:11
DEFENSE
ah Go birds.
00:38:11
jet tamburri
but
00:38:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:38:12
DEFENSE
I but i I there we we are in a moment where people can Google woodworking. And they see like it becomes romanticized.
00:38:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
00:38:22
DEFENSE
And one way to distinguish the person who comes into the shop and says, I want to be a woodworker because I Googled it on Tuesday and it looks sexy versus the person who's actually like when who I was at 20, who was like, this is what I'm going to do with my life is how much have you invested in the thing before you come to me?
00:38:42
DEFENSE
How hard are you trying to learn? How hard are you, how much, how many of your resources are you willing to expel to like have some base level of understanding before you're trying to work in my shop? And I wonder if that's the same in tattooing of like, how many people are just like, it'd be cool if I learned how to tattoo and then they want to start an apprenticeship versus how many people, like, how do you distinguish those people who are like, 1000%, this is what I'm going to do with my life.
00:39:10
jet tamburri
Well, most people, they want to they want to, they're like, yeah, I want a tattoo and this looks cool. This is what I want to do.
00:39:16
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:39:16
jet tamburri
But they're trying to get into the industry. There's a ton of people that I know that are in your world that are just like, I want to make small shit in my garage and just, you know, just for fun.
00:39:27
jet tamburri
Just to say I made this like cutting board or some shit like that.
00:39:31
DEFENSE
who
00:39:31
jet tamburri
You know what i'm saying? i mean, there is, there's a bunch of guys that I know around here.
00:39:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There are.
00:39:36
jet tamburri
Like, yeah, look, I made these cutting boards. I'm like, oh, that's cool. But like, But the it just seems like the people that are trying to get into my shit are like, yeah, they're trying to like, you know, open shops and do private studios.
00:39:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see.
00:39:48
DEFENSE
So,
00:39:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So one's primarily an industry and the other has a big hobby component to it.
00:39:53
jet tamburri
Yeah, there's no, I don't know any hobby tattoo artists.
00:39:53
Keith
Right.
00:39:56
jet tamburri
I don't know.
00:39:56
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's a great distinction.
00:39:57
Keith
Ha ha
00:39:57
jet tamburri
I
00:39:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jet, that is a huge distinction between our two fields. Wow. Wow.
00:40:03
DEFENSE
That's what I was wondering.
00:40:03
jet tamburri
mean, unless you're, yeah.
00:40:03
DEFENSE
And it's like, like how much of that investment is in somebody who's just going to be like, oh okay, that was fun for a summer.
00:40:08
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:40:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and And actually, eric Eric, I think this distinct...
00:40:10
DEFENSE
And now I'm gone.
00:40:10
jet tamburri
I mean, Reese Bobby, Ricky Bobby's dad, he's a semi-professional race car driver and an amateur tattoo artist.
00:40:11
Keith
ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. yeah
00:40:17
Keith
ah
00:40:19
jet tamburri
and That's the only fucking, that's the only hobby tattoo artist I ever know.
00:40:24
Keith
ah
00:40:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So Eric, that actually describes a big part of my confusion coming into today because I was thinking like, well, we have this we have this Instagram community, right?
00:40:25
jet tamburri
What do you want? What?
00:40:33
jet tamburri
I'm going to step out here for two seconds.
00:40:35
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:40:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And yeah so we have this Instagram community, right? And it's sort of commonplace to share your knowledge, right? In in this particular Instagram bubble, right?
00:40:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's like sharing is caring, right? We help each other. We tell people like what tools we use and how to do things. And it's a very open community. And that extends to your both of your livelihoods, right?
00:40:56
jet tamburri
Hmm.
00:40:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is like YouTube. ah Your YouTubes are educational YouTubes. You show people how to do... so with Eric, which finishes to you, Keith, you go painstakingly through every every piece of every build and what you want to do and what what problems you had and how you could have avoided it.
00:41:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And that is primarily eaten up by hobbyists.
00:41:26
DEFENSE
Yes. Yeah.
00:41:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I would say, yeah.
00:41:28
DEFENSE
Yeah. I think the overwhelming majority are hobbyists.
00:41:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
huh
00:41:30
DEFENSE
Yeah, that's fair.
00:41:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I mean, how...
00:41:31
Keith
Yeah, I don't think pro woodworkers are watching my stuff.
00:41:33
DEFENSE
I, well, at least the people who leave the comments who are like, I've been a professional woodworker for 37 years and I Googled how to cut a dovetail on Tuesday at 1 PM.
00:41:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, not...
00:41:37
Keith
Yeah, if, yeah.
00:41:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, I guess...
00:41:42
Keith
If you leave your resume, you're automatically out because no no professional does that.
00:41:44
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:41:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I would think out of all the people who leave comments on any of our media, we're talking about probably 90% plus hobbyists is my guess. Would you?
00:41:56
Keith
Hmm.
00:41:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
would you Okay.
00:41:56
DEFENSE
I think that's probably fair.
00:41:57
DEFENSE
Yeah, certainly certainly above 70%.
00:41:58
Keith
Yeah.
00:41:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So that's a very different idea than what Jet's talking about, where it's like there is no hobby world. This is all professional, all in you know all industrial, all...
00:42:05
Keith
Hmm. Hmm.
00:42:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you know, maximum strength grade, you're like tattooing people's skin, not easily removed. This is a totally different distinction. And I, wow, like I totally missed this coming into today.
00:42:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, the idea that,
00:42:22
jet tamburri
I mean, there's people... Go ahead.
00:42:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
well, it's just, I guess that what I come, what I come away with is when we consider hobbies, sharing is caring. When we consider money earning professions, not hobbies,
00:42:37
DEFENSE
The money's the crux of the argument, man.
00:42:39
jet tamburri
Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
It's a very different world.
00:42:39
Keith
Mmm.
00:42:40
DEFENSE
As soon as your bottom line is effective, you become much more defensive over what you're you're willing to share with people.
00:42:47
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:42:47
jet tamburri
And your age.
00:42:49
Keith
Yeah!
00:42:49
jet tamburri
It depends on how old you are Because the the older tattoo guys that I know are very, very...
00:42:49
DEFENSE
Oh, that's fair.
00:42:51
Keith
ah
00:42:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well,
00:42:57
jet tamburri
They can't stand that shit. They can't stand the showing people shit. They don't like any of that stuff. They don't like
00:43:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I've seen it cut both ways, Jet.
00:43:06
DEFENSE
Interesting.
00:43:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I actually thought it was the opposite because as people get older and, you know, kind of grappling with their own mortality, they start to think, what good is it for me to die with all this information?
00:43:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I need i owe it to my field to start teaching the next generation some of what I know. So I've seen many older woodworkers actually pivot towards teaching as they've they've aged.
00:43:29
DEFENSE
I feel like this is this is a difference of field, though. Like, ah ah Jet, correct correct me correct me if I'm wrong, but how many professional tattooers get into the game being like, I'm going live a long and fruitful life.
00:43:33
jet tamburri
Yeah, there's Tet ah No, no
00:43:41
DEFENSE
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:44
jet tamburri
but
00:43:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric, man, they're gonna choke the chicken by the time they're 50.
00:43:46
DEFENSE
ah
00:43:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:43:48
Keith
Uh-huh.
00:43:49
Keith
Uh-huh.
00:43:51
jet tamburri
These, yeah, the people in this industry are, no, they're just, they live hard and fast, most of them, especially the older ones.
00:43:56
DEFENSE
yeah yeah yeah
00:43:58
jet tamburri
They've, you know, they're lucky to be still walking around, you know. They party too much back in the day.
00:44:01
DEFENSE
Yeah.
00:44:03
jet tamburri
But I think, yeah, and I think that just, I don't know.
00:44:03
DEFENSE
Yeah, 57, they're on bart borrowed time, you know?
00:44:08
jet tamburri
It's just... Yeah, I mean, you don't see tattoo schools. I mean, if there's a tattoo school mentioned, oh my God, people want to burn.
00:44:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
There's no tattoo schools?
00:44:15
jet tamburri
Oh no, people want to burn those down. That's like, you can't say that. Oh my God.
00:44:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What?
00:44:20
DEFENSE
Well, okay, okay. So this is an interesting thing.
00:44:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:44:23
DEFENSE
So maybe this is born out of like just where the where the craft came from.
00:44:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Holy shit.
00:44:27
jet tamburri
There's a girl. There's a girl around here who is a med spa who is like teaching people, but she's also bringing people in and teaching them like how to tattoo, how to use the machine, charging them a shit ton of money and then sending them off into like you know the and the into the world because it's all about money.
00:44:49
jet tamburri
she's getting like 10 grand or whatever she's getting. so and she's not showing them techniques or how to do shit. All she's showing them how to do is use the machine, hold it, pull a line, whatever. And then she just sending them down the road.
00:45:01
jet tamburri
So a lot of people are, I don't know how many younger people are like, oh I got 10 grand to do that shit. You know? So, but
00:45:06
DEFENSE
Well, so do you like, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm wondering, well, i'm I'm just genuinely curious.
00:45:10
jet tamburri
yeah, go for it.
00:45:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I'm gonna.
00:45:16
DEFENSE
How much do you know about like the history of tattooing and and how we came to this moment because like the the woodworking tradition it's there's always been schools or like guilds you know but like it's never been to my understanding and have a very cursory understanding of the history of tattooing it's never been formalized in the way of like guilds in schools and in that kind of thing so like i i guess i'm just wondering if that plays into it
00:45:25
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm.
00:45:42
jet tamburri
It's all, it's been, it's been taught. It's been taught to people by people, but not like a, where you can actually sit in a room with like five other chicks or guys and be like, okay, we're going to learn how to do this shit today.
00:45:55
jet tamburri
that There's the none of that.
00:45:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:45:56
jet tamburri
And there are, there are some, but those people are like, they don't, they're, they're, yes, yes.
00:45:56
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So.
00:46:01
DEFENSE
Yeah, they're they're they're exercised from the community, right? Yeah. And like it' it kind of goes against like the the the cultural norm of tattooing, whereas in woodworking, having a formal education is the cultural norm.
00:46:06
jet tamburri
yeah
00:46:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
00:46:09
jet tamburri
yeah
00:46:16
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:46:16
DEFENSE
And I wonder if that stems out of the woodworking thing.
00:46:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So different.
00:46:17
jet tamburri
So Keith is the bastard. Oh, my God. None.
00:46:19
Keith
Yeah.
00:46:19
DEFENSE
He's the...
00:46:21
jet tamburri
Oh, well, I take that back.
00:46:22
Keith
I'm the outcast.
00:46:23
jet tamburri
ah
00:46:23
Keith
Yeah.
00:46:23
DEFENSE
He's he's a bastard for sure.
00:46:25
Keith
yeah yeah
00:46:25
jet tamburri
ah
00:46:26
DEFENSE
That's...
00:46:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and So, jet Jet, how many people have you taught how to tattoo, would you say?
00:46:31
jet tamburri
a
00:46:34
jet tamburri
oh my god none oh well i take that bag So I'll see people.
00:46:40
Keith
yeah
00:46:41
jet tamburri
Like, for instance, there's a girl that came into our studio. She was a nurse for 10 years. And then she started tattooing her husband and people in her kitchen just because she went through COVID as a nurse and hated it. and COVID, like, literally killed her and killed the nursing because she was ICU. you She was just over there.
00:47:01
jet tamburri
So she decided to to reach out and become a tattoo artist, which is funny because they said, oh, we're going hire this girl. said, oh, really? Where did she work before? Oh, that doesn't matter.
00:47:11
jet tamburri
She's she's she's nice. I'm like, I yeah don't give a fuck how nice she is.
00:47:14
Keith
Uh-huh.
00:47:15
DEFENSE
ah
00:47:16
jet tamburri
Where did she work before? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:17
Keith
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:47:18
jet tamburri
Don't worry. she's she's She's better than everybody around here. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about where has this girl worked? And she just kept on like dodging it. And then come to find out she worked in her kitchen and she didn't work on anybody. So when she came into the shop, she really didn't have an apprenticeship.
00:47:34
jet tamburri
So she she was just like doing stuff. And I'm like, who whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. Like, you know, you need to do things a little bit different. You need to start out small. So I don't know. That's not really.
00:47:45
jet tamburri
t i guess I taught her some things, but I never really took anybody on as an apprentice.
00:47:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Who taught you?
00:47:52
jet tamburri
Those. So those two brothers. in Philadelphia brought me in and said, hey, here's how you do it. This is a machine. Here you go. And then I had all those gangsters coming in and being like, yeah, here you go.
00:48:07
Keith
ah
00:48:07
jet tamburri
Give me whatever you want.
00:48:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, so I see.
00:48:09
Keith
Uh.
00:48:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So you're largely self-taught.
00:48:12
jet tamburri
ah Yes.
00:48:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see.
00:48:13
jet tamburri
Yup.
00:48:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Because cause I was wondering if you were taught by someone, would you feel sort of a moral obligation at least to pass it along occasionally? Whereas if you're self-taught, you're like, hey, I fucking figured it out like this.
00:48:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You figure it out.
00:48:28
jet tamburri
if i if i If I opened up another shop and i somebody came to me, like for instance, that girl, if I had my own shop, I would lay it out on the line for it.
00:48:39
jet tamburri
This is how it's going to work. You can come work for me, but you have to sign this or you have to pay this. So if you want to, you can you don't have to pay. You just have to sign over your time and I'll teach you how to do stuff.
00:48:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
see.
00:48:54
jet tamburri
And then as long as you're going to stay here, you know what i mean? That's the thing. There's no respect anymore in the industry. Nobody respects anybody or the the art or the craft or none of that stuff. You know what i mean?
00:49:05
jet tamburri
And respect the person that gave you your, you know what i mean? Your, you know.
00:49:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I see. So, so that's like territorialism or sorry, that's like, sorry, I don't mean that territorialism. What I'm trying to say is that has to do that arrangement has to do with like the business side and making sure I get some value for giving you value.
00:49:19
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:49:23
DEFENSE
uh-huh her
00:49:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, you know, fair is fair.
00:49:25
jet tamburri
Sure, sure.
00:49:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Now, is there also territorialism or defensiveness about the designs itself? Like that's my thing. How could you, do you see that going on?
00:49:37
jet tamburri
Well. That is a slippery slope.
00:49:41
Keith
Ha ha ha.
00:49:42
jet tamburri
So everything is put out on the internet, right? If you have this crazy design that you have and you don't want anybody to see it, don't fucking put it online. Don't put it out there where people can see it because then they're going to be like, that's cool.
00:49:56
jet tamburri
I'm going to fucking do that. I mean, everybody does that shit.
00:49:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:49:59
jet tamburri
And nobody's Nobody is just coming up with shit out of their head, right?
00:50:05
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:50:05
jet tamburri
Everything is drawn off of reference. So, you know, you guys may see a table or legs or arms on a chair or whatever. You're like, oh, that's fucking kind of cool. I'm going to implement that into something that I'm doing. Same thing. Oh, look at that wolf over there. That wolf head's kind of cool. I'm going to use that goddamn thing. I mean, I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm just...
00:50:28
jet tamburri
looking at reference and drawing and picking off a reference. And this day and age, everybody just does this. I want this.
00:50:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
00:50:37
jet tamburri
You know what I mean? They just come in and have it already picked out. They've already seen it. And it's bit me in the ass multiple times where they say, this is the best one. I love what you do. I love your work.
00:50:49
jet tamburri
Just kind of just do, do your thing, do your thing. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to, yeah, I bet you do.
00:50:52
Keith
ah We get that. ah
00:50:55
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
00:50:56
jet tamburri
bet you do.
00:50:56
Keith
I love everything you do.
00:50:57
jet tamburri
You're like,
00:50:57
Keith
Just make me something.
00:50:59
jet tamburri
Yeah, make me...
00:50:59
Keith
right Paul's dealing with that with a sushi board, right?
00:51:01
jet tamburri
Make me a table. And it's like, I've seen all your work. Make me a table. And then you're like, cool. I'm going to make this fucking awesome table that I think is awesome. You make the table and you're like, look at this.
00:51:11
Keith
Yeah, and they hate it
00:51:13
jet tamburri
And they're like, well, I don't know what the fuck that is. I actually wanted this.
00:51:16
Keith
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:18
jet tamburri
And you're like, well, where the fuck was that picture at?
00:51:19
Keith
Yeah.
00:51:20
DEFENSE
ah
00:51:20
jet tamburri
You know what I'm saying?
00:51:20
Keith
m
00:51:21
jet tamburri
So for me, it's the same thing. Like it's bit me in the ass. I've tried to give them what I think is cool. And they're like, no, no, that's, that's cool.
00:51:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jeff, what do you think is jeff what do you think is cool I'm curious.
00:51:28
DEFENSE
Uh.
00:51:32
jet tamburri
What do I think is cool? I love like just a bunch of black work, girl heads.
00:51:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
00:51:38
jet tamburri
I like doing like crazy reapers, all kinds of stuff like that. Black and gray, like more on the, not traditional, more artsy, but like neo-traditional.
00:51:49
jet tamburri
I love doing girl heads, love doing those. Um, so, but, but traditional is fun.
00:51:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Eric.
00:51:54
jet tamburri
I mean, it's cool to do, you know, bold lines, bold color. I mean, it's, if I had to do the same thing every day, it would suck. So doing different stuff, I never understand why people pigeonhole themselves into just doing one thing unless they can't do other things,
00:52:10
DEFENSE
I think that's a big part of it.
00:52:15
jet tamburri
you know, and that,
00:52:15
Keith
Or there's no one there to teach them how to do other things, Jet.
00:52:15
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
or
00:52:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh Oh, snap!
00:52:20
jet tamburri
ah Oh, man.
00:52:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What? What?
00:52:23
jet tamburri
I think I just touched i touched on a bad sore subject around.
00:52:24
Keith
but ah Not for me.
00:52:27
DEFENSE
I feel like I feel like Keith might be asking for an apprenticeship.
00:52:30
Keith
yeah
00:52:30
DEFENSE
I think that's what's happening.
00:52:32
Keith
He's just mad because i don't have any ink.
00:52:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Let's start with the scorpion.
00:52:34
DEFENSE
ah
00:52:36
Keith
He's like all that white skin, a perfect canvas for me. And he won't let me, he won't let me tattoo him.
00:52:39
jet tamburri
yeah
00:52:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We're going to start with the red scorpion, Keith.
00:52:41
DEFENSE
That pale Nordic skin.
00:52:41
Keith
ah ha
00:52:43
DEFENSE
but
00:52:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
that's how we That's how we kick this party off.
00:52:45
DEFENSE
ah
00:52:46
jet tamburri
Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm not doing it.
00:52:48
Keith
ah yeah
00:52:50
jet tamburri
ah I'll be like, good luck, Keith. I'll catch you later. I'll come i'll come back when you're done.
00:52:55
Keith
hey I bet the girl at the coffee shop will be happy to help me out.
00:52:55
jet tamburri
I'm going to have a drink. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:52:59
Keith
ah
00:53:00
jet tamburri
Exactly.
00:53:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So, you know, whats what's funny about our conversation already is I had these sort of five points. You know, I asked them ah Google Gemini kind of, so what are some of the philosophical key issues that, you that have to do with territorialism and defensiveness in the arts. And the list it it gave me, there's five main topics. Listen to this.
00:53:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The first topic was the legacy of the guild, that knowledge as a form of currency through medieval times, that it was always kept within the guild. ah To reveal the mystery of how you did something was...
00:53:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
a way to devalue your own economic worth.
00:53:48
DEFENSE
and's It all hinges on the dollar, man.
00:53:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Right?
00:53:50
DEFENSE
It all hinges on money.
00:53:50
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay, so that's the...
00:53:51
jet tamburri
Well, exactly.
00:53:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's right.
00:53:52
jet tamburri
Back then, I mean, Christ, if you were a sword maker, you don't want to tell it teach anybody else to be a sword maker because they can like that person better than you and now you're fucking down the street.
00:53:56
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:54:00
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
that's right
00:54:01
DEFENSE
Yeah, I mean, like, the the glassmakers had a very, like, significantly powerful guild for the same fucking reasons, because nobody could do that shit.
00:54:01
jet tamburri
You know what i'm saying?
00:54:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
but but
00:54:02
Keith
Right.
00:54:07
jet tamburri
Yeah. They lived two years.
00:54:09
DEFENSE
Yeah, well, there's that.
00:54:10
jet tamburri
Super dangerous.
00:54:11
DEFENSE
There's that.
00:54:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:54:12
jet tamburri
Oh, God.
00:54:13
Keith
ah
00:54:14
DEFENSE
but
00:54:15
jet tamburri
They needed to teach people because that shit is fucking dangerous.
00:54:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and
00:54:17
DEFENSE
yeah
00:54:18
Keith
Oh, right, yeah.
00:54:19
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I mean, not that different from some tattoo artist, Jet.
00:54:20
jet tamburri
They're...
00:54:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:54:22
Keith
No, right?
00:54:23
jet tamburri
This is fair.
00:54:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
00:54:23
jet tamburri
This is fair.
00:54:24
Keith
Yeah.
00:54:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Live fast, die hard, right?
00:54:25
jet tamburri
This is fair. Yeah.
00:54:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
00:54:27
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:54:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
and so But in in modern times, the legacy of the guild, like I see it, Jet, in your non-hobbyist world, but in our hobbyist world, it's been replaced by the information age, where information is free and plentiful.
00:54:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Case point case in point, Eric and Keith, who run huge channels giving free information, right?
00:54:41
jet tamburri
yeah
00:54:46
DEFENSE
Yeah, we're fucking harlotans. Yeah. yeah
00:54:48
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. All right. this the second The second point is it it said it was about...
00:54:48
Keith
ah
00:54:50
Keith
Yeah.
00:54:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
the The conflict of small differences, meaning like the closer the closer two fields are or territories are to each other, the more there's a little bit of infighting.
00:55:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
like If two fields are super far apart, you're not competing for the same turf, basically. But the closer you get together, meaning like two people in the same field or two people in the same you know who are both table makers, the more the territorialism evolves.
00:55:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, cause you're, you might take my, so proximity, this is a point of proximity. The further people are away, the the easier they can get along, the closer they are to doing the same thing, the more trouble Bruce.
00:55:36
DEFENSE
Well, and I assume that extends like creative proximity, but also physical proximity, right? Like, yeah, like jet Jets worry about finding clients in North Carolina.
00:55:42
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, both. Right. Cause of market share. Sure.
00:55:47
DEFENSE
Like if he has a buddy in Seattle who's tattooing, he's like, I don't, the more more you succeed, the better, you know?
00:55:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's right.
00:55:52
Keith
Right. We're not competing.
00:55:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
00:55:55
jet tamburri
Well, yeah, no.
00:55:55
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The third. Oh, go ahead, Jet. Yeah, go ahead.
00:55:58
jet tamburri
um So it's funny because like those two guys, they have those... big channels, right? But all those people that are watching that contribute to those channels, right? If they didn't have all those people watching it and looking and trying to do that shit, they wouldn't be so successful.
00:56:14
jet tamburri
Same thing with us. They can look and try and learn just because you pick up a machine does it or you can draw. doesn't mean that you can tattoo. So even though there are
00:56:24
DEFENSE
Oh, we're gonna we're gonna dissect that.
00:56:26
Keith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:56:27
jet tamburri
Even though they're showing people how, like for instance, I clicked on one of his Keith's things today because he sent me a link and I was like, oh, YouTube. And I just fucking clicked it. that crazy ass crazy bent shelf thing.
00:56:39
jet tamburri
I was looking at that thing being like, what?
00:56:40
DEFENSE
ah
00:56:41
jet tamburri
And the fucking spaceship fucking thing was that with all the holes and the, I mean, I was like, it wait, is he, is that the, is that the, is that the frigging, is that the, is that the like cabinet thing?
00:56:43
DEFENSE
laughter
00:56:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
so
00:56:46
Keith
ah
00:56:53
jet tamburri
No, that's the fucking jig just to bend the wood.
00:56:56
Keith
Right.
00:56:57
jet tamburri
I'm like, Oh, there's the fucking, there's the wood that he's putting through the planer.
00:56:59
Keith
Wow.
00:57:01
jet tamburri
I'm like, Holy shit.
00:57:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh my God, Jed, I love you.
00:57:03
jet tamburri
Like,
00:57:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. Hmm.
00:57:04
Keith
Mm-hmm.
00:57:06
jet tamburri
So that's what I'm saying. Like most people, they don't even have the even a the know-how. B, I was like, how many fucking tools is this guy going to use to build this goddamn fucking thing?
00:57:15
Keith
yeah
00:57:16
jet tamburri
So there's like thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools that you need to do a lot of that shit, which most people don't have.
00:57:17
Keith
okay
00:57:23
jet tamburri
You know what i mean?
00:57:23
DEFENSE
Okay, paul Paul, do any of your other points have to do with handmade versus mass produced? Because I don't want to step on it.
00:57:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, the next one.
00:57:29
DEFENSE
Okay, all right, okay, okay.
00:57:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yes, the next one.
00:57:30
jet tamburri
Oh, okay.
00:57:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
the third point the The third point is the gift versus the market is what it put it.
00:57:31
jet tamburri
Sorry. I didn't mean to go.
00:57:31
Keith
Aha.
00:57:31
jet tamburri
Okay.
00:57:32
DEFENSE
No, no, no.
00:57:32
Keith
ah
00:57:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And it's like thinking about a gift economy, like small scale, one at a time, maybe not a lot of money's involved. You know, the the sweet sentimentality of giving gifts.
00:57:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But you could also versus the market, the mass production, the big time, you know, mass, those are very different things. And those carry with them. One carries a defensiveness and one carries sort of an open heart lightness. Now the gift Eric could be pivoted towards like small batch handmade goods. I think would, you know, there's not a huge market there.
00:58:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I think when they say the market, I think they're talking mass production.
00:58:16
DEFENSE
Yeah, I think they are. I guess I was thinking of it more in like ah a scalability way. So like a table in this in this way, like that's the market, right? Like everybody needs a dining room table. um A tattoo, in jet correct me if I'm wrong, can't be mass produced, right?
00:58:38
DEFENSE
Like there's no, there's nothing...
00:58:40
Keith
Iron on or rub on.
00:58:41
DEFENSE
That's it. Hold on. An iron on tattoo?
00:58:43
Keith
i yeah My bad.
00:58:44
DEFENSE
What the fuck are you doing to your body, buddy?
00:58:44
Keith
Hey, I'm hardcore.
00:58:44
jet tamburri
Yeah.
00:58:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm. ah
00:58:48
Keith
ah
00:58:49
DEFENSE
But but like it's still it's still hand done one at a time. right like It's somebody drawing on your body. um and And so I wonder if maybe that's where part of the defensiveness is. is is just like you What you do with your hands is your work versus, I don't know, like the like if it's if it's produced at scale, you're copying an idea.
00:59:15
DEFENSE
versus showing somebody a craft. Does that make sense?
00:59:21
jet tamburri
Yeah. I mean, so if you're saying mass produce, right? So you guys, if you're doing like small things, you're going to mass produce. I don't know. I'm going to go real tiny, like key chains or some shit.
00:59:32
Keith
Mm.
00:59:33
jet tamburri
ah You make 20 key chains, right?
00:59:35
DEFENSE
Hmm.
00:59:35
jet tamburri
Then you're going to sell them. Well, you made all 20 of those. Well, if we do a flash day where you're picking off of a sheet and 10 people pick that same little goddamn thing, I do it 10 times. What the frick is the difference?
00:59:49
Keith
m
00:59:49
jet tamburri
Still mass produce.
00:59:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
00:59:51
DEFENSE
Yes. Yeah. Well, so, so the, the idea is replicable, but the actual doing of the thing, like I, so key changes is is a good example.
00:59:55
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:00:01
DEFENSE
I could drop a file for a CNC on a key chain hit go. And the machine makes all 10 or all 20 or all 50 or a hundred, whatever.
01:00:07
jet tamburri
They're not handmade.
01:00:09
Keith
Hmm.
01:00:09
DEFENSE
They're not, I'm not bandsawing everyone out and rubbing them between my hands until they get nice and smooth.
01:00:10
jet tamburri
know, I'm just joking.
01:00:14
Keith
and
01:00:16
DEFENSE
But like, so you have, you have a flash sale.
01:00:18
jet tamburri
i know i'm just
01:00:18
DEFENSE
You set like, like, like a hundred people come in and they want whatever, a fucking scorpion tattoo.
01:00:20
Keith
ah
01:00:25
DEFENSE
And, and, and you, you,
01:00:25
Keith
ah
01:00:26
jet tamburri
Yep. Dicks everywhere.
01:00:28
Keith
Oh my God. Lay them on the table, boys. So we're going to go 10 for it.
01:00:31
jet tamburri
at that.
01:00:32
DEFENSE
but
01:00:33
Keith
It's a BOGO today.
01:00:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
We're going to need a smaller table.
01:00:34
DEFENSE
but but
01:00:35
Keith
Yeah. Oh.
01:00:36
jet tamburri
No, ah
01:00:38
DEFENSE
but But you still need to to physically draw and tattoo every single one by hand. Like even if the idea is the same.
01:00:45
Keith
yeah
01:00:46
jet tamburri
it's a stencil.
01:00:48
Keith
oh
01:00:50
DEFENSE
Tell me more about that. This is where my lack of understanding of the the trade comes in.
01:00:54
jet tamburri
It's a stencil so basically it's already drawn out it could be printed off and all I do is run it through the machine take the stencil put it on your skin and tattoo it.
01:01:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, but you so you have to tattoo it by hand.
01:01:03
DEFENSE
Yeah, but but you still have to go tattoo the thing.
01:01:04
Keith
You still have to do it by hand.
01:01:05
jet tamburri
Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
01:01:05
Keith
Hmm.
01:01:06
DEFENSE
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:06
jet tamburri
Yeah, yes. Yes. Mine is handmade yours is CNC'd.
01:01:07
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:01:08
DEFENSE
Yeah, right, right.
01:01:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:01:10
jet tamburri
yeah
01:01:10
DEFENSE
And so like i think I think that is a difference that's important to note.
01:01:14
jet tamburri
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
01:01:16
DEFENSE
No, you disagree? Push back on me.
01:01:17
Keith
Right.
01:01:18
jet tamburri
No, I mean, I know it's fine.
01:01:18
DEFENSE
Go for it.
01:01:19
jet tamburri
I mean, I just, to me, I'm just like, God, I got to do 12 of these stupid things.
01:01:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, Jet...
01:01:21
DEFENSE
ah
01:01:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
jet Well...
01:01:24
jet tamburri
But then again, Hey, give me the money.
01:01:24
Keith
Well, that...
01:01:26
jet tamburri
I'm fine with it. Right. I guess it comes down to the money.
01:01:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I...
01:01:28
Keith
Aww.
01:01:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, I think Eric's thinking about scalability, right?
01:01:29
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:01:33
DEFENSE
Yeah.
01:01:33
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:01:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
When it's, when it's hand done by a human poking needles into your skin, there is no scalability other than more people in more time. Whereas with, with woodworking, you could buy an army of C and C's and scale up, you know, a thousand fold.
01:01:46
jet tamburri
yeah
01:01:46
Keith
Well, with the tattoos, I mean, you could you're going to get faster by the 10th one, right?
01:01:50
Keith
So you're going to make more money on that 10th one because it took you, I don't know, two minutes versus the three minutes of the first one. But still, like, and overall, it's it compared to woodworking.
01:01:57
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm.
01:01:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:02:00
DEFENSE
Right.
01:02:00
Keith
It's not even close.
01:02:00
DEFENSE
Like the difference between me CNCing out 10 key chains versus a thousand is a is a difference of like a handful of minutes versus like each by the thousandth time he tattoos a scorpion on somebody's dick, he's going to be 10% faster.
01:02:10
Keith
Yeah.
01:02:12
Keith
Yeah.
01:02:15
Keith
Mm-hmm. Well, not to mention, you can be doing other things while the machine is...
01:02:17
jet tamburri
I'm going to be tired as shit. Yeah, you're going have three shots.
01:02:20
Keith
Yeah, yeah. ah
01:02:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Ha ha ha ha!
01:02:22
jet tamburri
you'll be You'll be four or five shots deep at that ah at the bar down the street while they're all printing out and shit.
01:02:26
Keith
a
01:02:28
DEFENSE
ah
01:02:29
Keith
No, because Eric will be at your shop getting a tattoo while the CNC is working.
01:02:32
DEFENSE
There it is.
01:02:32
Keith
So, spending money while making money.
01:02:33
jet tamburri
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. i look I lose out.
01:02:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:02:38
Keith
yeah
01:02:39
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So the the the fourth and fifth point is the amateurization of expertise.
01:02:40
DEFENSE
All right, Paul.
01:02:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jet, you talked about this. You hit this. You're like, everyone thinks they can tattoo now. They just buy the tattoo going off Amazon, watch a couple YouTube videos, and now they think they know how to do it.
01:02:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That is exactly the point number four.
01:02:58
jet tamburri
Mm-hmm.
01:02:59
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And the last point was about originality that – You know, if a master does something and you copy it, is it a new idea? This whole idea of like copying, basically, you know, what's a copy versus what's an original work. So it's funny because we have touched on all five of these points organically in our conversation, which I think is very interesting.
01:03:26
Keith
So I have a question, Jet.
01:03:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
01:03:27
Keith
like
01:03:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, go ahead.
01:03:28
Keith
Sorry, Paul.
01:03:28
jet tamburri
Yeah. yep
01:03:28
Keith
ah Where do you see, like what is the future of tattooing? Meaning, are there going to be machines that can roll over your arm and it will laser engrave a tattoo on there? Or are there new tools coming out that can help you? Or is AI doing anything for, is that making your life more difficult where people come in with renderings that AI created? Like, I can't turn that into a tattoo. like There's no way.
01:03:56
jet tamburri
Actually, the AI drawings, depending on which ones they are, i love them.
01:04:01
Keith
m Okay.
01:04:02
jet tamburri
I'm not going to lie. Like some of them are so perfect because you can tweak it, tweak it, tweak it. And somebody is like, I like this drawing. I'm like, yo, that thing's fucking perfect. and they're like, well, I did it on AI. I'm like, for real.
01:04:12
jet tamburri
So I started messing around with it and shit.
01:04:13
Keith
ah
01:04:15
jet tamburri
I'm like, holy shit, this is pretty goddamn good. It depends on how crazy the image is. But some of them, like I know the chat GBT ones, those are like, you know, you could just go in there and talk to it and it prints out ah an image.
01:04:19
Keith
Okay.
01:04:26
jet tamburri
and And some of them are like, I hate to say it, but I wouldn't change a goddamn thing.
01:04:31
Keith
no hey It's like that in the furniture world right now.
01:04:32
jet tamburri
I really wouldn't.
01:04:34
Keith
It's it's the becoming more and more.
01:04:36
jet tamburri
But as far as like... robots or something you can stick your arm in. i don't know that will, I'll be done. I'll be sitting with this guy being like, Hey, you want to teach me how to woodwork?
01:04:45
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:04:48
jet tamburri
I'll come up to Philly and shit.
01:04:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:04:50
jet tamburri
I'll be done when that shit happens because I'm just, uh, yeah, no, by the time that, because you figure you're going to be reluctant just to be like, okay, I'm gonna let this crazy robot put, you know, do this shit to me and I got to sit still.
01:05:03
jet tamburri
And what if it messes up?
01:05:04
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:05:05
jet tamburri
Like, Yeah, no, I don't think that that by that time, if that is a thing, I'll be long gone. I'll be long gone. So, but I think, and I think people actually like, it's crazy because which touches on what he was talking about on. And what I said earlier about people not knowing how to tattoo, right?
01:05:26
jet tamburri
It's amazing to me how many people suck, but they're busy. It's because they are good at selling and making you feel like you like you're part of the the part of the gang.
01:05:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
ah
01:05:41
jet tamburri
You know what i mean? If you're like, hey, super you know responsive and texting them and posting about them and thanking them online and they're like, yeah, that dude's my fucking best friend.
01:05:52
jet tamburri
No, he's not. He's just fucking good. it's He's selling you. he's He's a good car salesman, right? He can sell anything.
01:05:57
Keith
Mm. Mm.
01:05:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hmm
01:05:58
DEFENSE
Listen, buddy, as somebody who's made a career off of sucking, but being likable, that's, you know?
01:05:59
jet tamburri
So
01:05:59
Keith
Mm.
01:06:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hmm hmm
01:06:07
jet tamburri
Yeah, it's crazy. And I mean, and then on the flip side of all that, the amount of people that have no clue what a good tattoo looks like is amazing to me.
01:06:15
DEFENSE
Mmm...
01:06:17
jet tamburri
Amazing. When I look at shit, I'm looking at different things, same way you guys probably are. I'm picking that thing apart from all different angles. People don't see that shit. They can't. They can't walk into when you guys walk in and see a piece of furniture, you're like, oh, look at that.
01:06:30
jet tamburri
Oh, God. All right. But when but if I walked in, I'd be like, that thing's cool as shit.
01:06:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:06:35
jet tamburri
And then you guys are like,
01:06:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
01:06:37
DEFENSE
Well, so so what are some of the things you're looking at?
01:06:37
jet tamburri
I guess.
01:06:37
Keith
but
01:06:40
DEFENSE
Like, this is interesting. What are the things that distinguish a good tattoo from a bad tattoo, in your opinion?
01:06:45
jet tamburri
So, and as an apprentice, no matter how you start, line work.
01:06:52
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:06:52
jet tamburri
Good, solid, consistent line work is the key because you can reshade, you can recolor for the most part.
01:06:55
DEFENSE
Mm-hmm.
01:07:00
jet tamburri
but if But if you're drawing a nose and you're like, whoo, well, there fucked, that's gone.
01:07:00
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:07:04
Keith
no You got another arm I can borrow?
01:07:06
jet tamburri
People, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
01:07:08
Keith
Mm.
01:07:11
jet tamburri
And people think that lettering, right? Lettering is super easy. Well, not really because you only have one fucking shot at it. Whoop, whoop, whoop. If you fucking whoopity whoop, you're fucked.
01:07:20
Keith
ah Spell mom with two O's.
01:07:20
jet tamburri
You know what I mean so
01:07:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, Jet.
01:07:23
jet tamburri
So, yeah.
01:07:23
Keith
Yeah.
01:07:23
jet tamburri
Oh, dude, it happens. It fucking happens, you know?
01:07:25
Keith
yeah
01:07:25
DEFENSE
love Moom.
01:07:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
jet os fitt ah Oh, Jet, that's fantastic.
01:07:27
DEFENSE
I love Moom.
01:07:28
Keith
ah
01:07:29
jet tamburri
Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:30
Keith
him oh
01:07:31
jet tamburri
It's just crazy. So, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's just, this world, i'm I'm over it, honestly. I'm fucking over it. I really am.
01:07:40
DEFENSE
yeah
01:07:40
Keith
ah
01:07:41
jet tamburri
I am. I can't stand people. People are so like, they just, when when you used to walk into a tattoo shop back in the day, you didn't walk in and say, i need this and I want, and oh, it's that much?
01:07:50
DEFENSE
Bye.
01:07:53
jet tamburri
Fuck that. You would have gotten punched square in your mouth.
01:07:56
Keith
Oh. Oh.
01:07:57
jet tamburri
Now people come in and they're just like, fuck you.
01:07:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:08:01
jet tamburri
I'm going to tell you how it is. And I'm like, This ain't fucking Walmart. Like you can't, we're not rolling back.
01:08:07
Keith
ah
01:08:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jen!
01:08:08
jet tamburri
Like this ain't Target.
01:08:09
Keith
and wrong
01:08:09
jet tamburri
We're not rolling back prices. No, there's no, there's no, there's no HR in here.
01:08:14
Keith
ah
01:08:16
jet tamburri
There's no HR.
01:08:16
Keith
ah
01:08:17
DEFENSE
ah
01:08:17
jet tamburri
I can, I don't have to do shit.
01:08:18
Keith
It's no complaint department. It's on the scorpion.
01:08:20
jet tamburri
Yeah. There's none. It's, it's right here.
01:08:21
Keith
Hmm.
01:08:22
jet tamburri
You know, go fuck yourself.
01:08:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
01:08:24
jet tamburri
Get the fuck out of here. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jet, how often do you get customers like that?
01:08:28
Keith
ah
01:08:29
jet tamburri
All the time. But the thing, not every day.
01:08:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
no every day?
01:08:30
Keith
rear
01:08:32
jet tamburri
Most people are pretty nice there, but we get a ton of them.
01:08:33
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
oh oh Okay.
01:08:35
jet tamburri
The problem is, is that now everybody lives on social media and now they can leave bad reviews and they gave it like, he was a fucking asshole to me.
01:08:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
01:08:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:08:44
jet tamburri
I had a guy, he came in, he called me, he told me that he wanted this crazy ass design. I drew it up. And then the day of when I confirmed him, he said, you know what? I think I want something completely different. And I was like,
01:08:57
jet tamburri
Well, guess what? i don't know what the fuck could tell you because we got to have another appointment.
01:08:59
Keith
Your pain.
01:09:00
DEFENSE
ah
01:09:01
jet tamburri
I can't draw that. and he's like, what the fuck? I took off today. And I'm like, I don't make money if I don't, if I don't go to work. I'm like, yeah, dickhead, either do
01:09:09
Keith
And neither do I.
01:09:10
DEFENSE
ah
01:09:10
jet tamburri
Yeah. I don't make money because now you just changed it It's like, you know, I want this fucking table with three legs.
01:09:14
DEFENSE
Hmm. Hmm.
01:09:14
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:09:16
jet tamburri
You know what? While you're almost done there, can you put four legs on it?
01:09:17
Keith
Yeah.
01:09:20
jet tamburri
Fuck the three. I, you know I mean It's not going work.
01:09:22
Keith
Yeah.
01:09:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jed, do you have to get a deposit before the drawing stage?
01:09:22
jet tamburri
Like,
01:09:26
jet tamburri
Yes, I definitely, yes, you should definitely get a deposit. I should take more to more of a deposit sometimes because, you know, if I get a hundred hours on a $500 tattoo, I'd, I'd rather do the $500, not just take the hundred, you know what i mean?
01:09:40
jet tamburri
But cause it's, it's hard to like book somebody and half the time I'm like, don't even call anybody.
01:09:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Mm-hmm.
01:09:45
jet tamburri
I'm like, well, looks like I'm going to get another coffee and draw and just dick around do whatever, you know?
01:09:48
Keith
Uh...
01:09:49
DEFENSE
Mmm.
01:09:50
Keith
but
01:09:51
jet tamburri
So yeah.
01:09:51
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How many tattoos do you typically do a day?
01:09:54
jet tamburri
Normally two, two to three. So my schedule is pretty, it nowadays with Christmas coming up, people reschedule or, you know, people, I've got something going on, work, this. So it's always moving around and stuff like that.
01:10:11
jet tamburri
So it definitely changes.
01:10:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
in art And are there days where you're just not feeling it? Like, I don't feel like sitting here drawing.
01:10:18
jet tamburri
I don't, um' I'm at that. I think I've just been doing it so long. i'm just like so fed up, you know?
01:10:23
DEFENSE
Yeah, sounds like he's been there for a few years, dog.
01:10:26
jet tamburri
ah Yeah, it's just like, I just don't know. But then i feel, I tell everybody, I'm like, I'm like a stripper. Like I can't get off the pole and make too much goddamn money.
01:10:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
i yeah ah
01:10:35
jet tamburri
What am I going to do? I'm going to go get a regular job and I'm...
01:10:38
DEFENSE
God, there are so many t-shirts from this episode.
01:10:39
jet tamburri
yeah
01:10:40
Keith
ah
01:10:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I can't get off the pole.
01:10:41
jet tamburri
ah
01:10:42
DEFENSE
There's that I can't get off the pole.
01:10:43
jet tamburri
ah
01:10:44
DEFENSE
There's no HR department here. Dick Scorpions.
01:10:49
jet tamburri
Yeah, I can't like you could go get a regular job, but you're going to like this fucking sucks.
01:10:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That was amazing.
01:10:51
Keith
Yeah.
01:10:54
jet tamburri
You got to show up on time.
01:10:55
Keith
Yeah.
01:10:56
jet tamburri
You got to punch a clock. You got to listen to some some boss who may have had a bad day or his wife gave him shit. He's taking it out on you. It's just like, fuck this shit. I'm going back to dancing.
01:11:07
jet tamburri
and Fuck this shit.
01:11:07
Keith
Yeah.
01:11:08
jet tamburri
I'm just going to go. ah
01:11:12
jet tamburri
I'm going to go have a drink and just scream at somebody when they treat me like shit.
01:11:12
Keith
ah
01:11:16
DEFENSE
ah
01:11:17
jet tamburri
It's great. i don't have to worry about it you know?
01:11:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, it's been so funny.
01:11:19
jet tamburri
but
01:11:19
Keith
uh
01:11:20
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, Eric, Eric, dude, tattoo artists are an untapped reservoir of humor, dude.
01:11:21
jet tamburri
Yeah, I just, don't know. Mm-hmm. yeah
01:11:27
Keith
ah
01:11:28
DEFENSE
Honest to Christ, man. Honest. Oh, man.
01:11:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right. So, Jet, last question. What would you say to, you know, in the in the in the hobbyist community online and Instagram with woodworking, there is this sort of Buddhist sentiment applied to us, which like open and sharing like a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.
01:11:33
jet tamburri
who
01:11:49
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like what what do you what's your interpretation of that sentiment from your perspective in the tattoo world?
01:11:57
jet tamburri
I mean, I'm with it. I agree. Like you should definitely share with people, right? Share your knowledge, but you just have to do it with, you know, you gotta be careful on what you share.
01:12:13
jet tamburri
And, um, you know, I don't know.
01:12:15
Keith
And find the right person to share it with, too, right?
01:12:16
jet tamburri
I, I, Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's people out there that, you know, that are, that are actually really cool and actually deserve to be in this industry.
01:12:26
jet tamburri
And I don't mind giving them tips and stuff like that, because even if I tell you how to do something, ah yeah it's going to take you forever to get to where, well, yeah.
01:12:34
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, no one's going to be you, Jet, right? That's the point. It's like, even if they copy one design, let's say they copy one design you did, or you give them some tips, they're not going to be you.
01:12:38
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:12:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
they They don't see the world like you. They'll never know your next design. Your next design is only achievable by you and no one else.
01:12:51
jet tamburri
Sure. And more so techniques is what I was saying.
01:12:52
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
So there's that. Hmm.
01:12:54
jet tamburri
Like if trying to teach somebody techniques, because if you teach them the techniques, then they can do whatever. you know what I mean? If you teach them how to shade good, then they can take that and do other stuff with it.
01:13:01
Keith
Mm
01:13:05
jet tamburri
If you teach them how to do good, solid lines off the bat, then that's a, you know, something that they can take with them and, and, and, you know, use it down the road as far. it But, um, but even, you know, if I tell, if I tell somebody, Hey, you should do this, you should do this.
01:13:20
jet tamburri
And then they just take it and they're like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then they do it and it's like, holy shit, good for you. You should be tattooing, you know what I mean? Because you picked it up that quick, you're going to have a good you know good career.
01:13:27
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:13:30
jet tamburri
so But the most people, they're not going to be able to do that shit. Yeah. like
01:13:34
DEFENSE
can i Can I also just say, Paul, I know i know where you're coming from with this statement of like, we kind of have this Buddhist ideology of like share knowledge, a candle doesn't lose anything, etc.
01:13:48
DEFENSE
That's not been my experience in cabinet shops. Like, I think that is strictly in the online hobbyist space and and specifically about finishing techniques.
01:13:54
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hobbyists.
01:14:00
DEFENSE
And this is still a thing that exists even in the YouTube community. Like, there's not a lot of finishers putting their shit on YouTube for some reason. Every cabinet shop I've ever worked in.
01:14:09
Keith
Because they're half brain dead from all the fumes.
01:14:10
DEFENSE
Well, I mean, don't get me wrong. They are, they are fucked out of their mind.
01:14:13
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Keith!
01:14:13
Keith
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:15
DEFENSE
98% of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:14:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:14:18
DEFENSE
For sure.
01:14:18
Keith
ah yeah
01:14:19
DEFENSE
That Xylene goes straight up the nostrils. But, but every cabinet shop I've ever worked in.
01:14:25
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:14:25
DEFENSE
um and And I'd be curious to hear from the listeners if other people have different experiences. You can come through the shop like somebody, another business owner comes in, another cabinet maker comes in, a client comes in, whatever it is. You can come through the shop. You can see how shit's getting built. You can see all of the joinery being done, all of the surfaces being prepped. But the finishing room has always been off limits because whatever happens in that kind of black box of chemistry, the finishers are always the guys who make the magic happens.
01:14:55
DEFENSE
Um, and, and so for whatever reason, that's always like, if a piece is done, done, you're allowed to see it. If it's before finishing, you're allowed to see it.
01:15:06
DEFENSE
If it's in the process of finishing, nobody sees it outside of the shop.
01:15:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
What? Really?
01:15:12
DEFENSE
Yeah, and and I think it, I mean, listen, it's been 10 years since I've worked full time in a cabinet shop.
01:15:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Even today?
01:15:19
DEFENSE
But even in the last cabinet shop, I was working in part time while I was starting the YouTube channel.
01:15:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:15:24
DEFENSE
That was true. Like we would get pieces in from Nakashima, from like from the museums.
01:15:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:15:30
DEFENSE
We would refinish art carpenter pieces. We would refinish Judy McKee pieces. And that would get a towel thrown over it when people came into the shop. because it was in process of the fit, because that's kind of where that magic happens.
01:15:42
DEFENSE
So I think, again, coming back to the money aspect, as soon as money enters the equation, that changes the way that people feel about sharing information.
01:15:43
Keith
Hmm.
01:15:51
Keith
Hmm.
01:15:53
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I guess we've been, I've been in a bubble, honestly. I've only known the Instagram sort of hobbyist community and I haven't really seen much of this this professional money world.
01:16:00
Keith
Hmm.
01:16:02
jet tamburri
you
01:16:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
In fact, my experience has been when anyone asks me for information, just share it. Why? Because whatever, they're not going look, I don't make a living, right?
01:16:16
DEFENSE
Yeah, because you don't have five to six figures riding on that information, right?
01:16:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't make a living.
01:16:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That's right.
01:16:22
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:16:22
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I don't. I have a job separate from that. And even if I tell them how I do something, the level of complexity and the number of steps in my current pieces is prohibitive for 99% of those people. They're not going to do it. Anyway, so even if you do share it, ah them making the same piece would be very difficult.
01:16:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And if they were capable of making the same piece, they probably wouldn't even be asking me for that information because they probably already have it figured out. Right. You know what mean? So there's like safety and complexity. have a job, so I'm never i never feel threatened about money.
01:16:58
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Money is not part of it. And it's just like this sort of like Kumbaya, you know, like Internet, ah you know, Instagram life.
01:17:03
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:17:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And very open and it's very warm and sharing and welcoming. And yeah, I had not understood or predicted that this conversation today would go the way it has.
01:17:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
But I feel like I've learned, I've seen a whole new view today by talking to Jet.
01:17:25
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:17:26
DEFENSE
Yeah, i mean, nobody saw dick scorpions coming.
01:17:28
Keith
Ha ha ha ha
01:17:28
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And no.
01:17:29
DEFENSE
Well...
01:17:29
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:17:31
Keith
ahha ah
01:17:32
jet tamburri
Oh, God, yeah. i didn't yeah i I didn't want to see it either. That's why I didn't fuck with it.
01:17:37
Keith
ah
01:17:38
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
yeah
01:17:40
jet tamburri
Yeah, that shit's crazy.
01:17:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, well, um let me let me ask one last question before we wrap up.
01:17:42
DEFENSE
well
01:17:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Have you ever been copied, like copied, copied? Jet, have you seen any of your designs like totally ripped off?
01:17:56
jet tamburri
Um, not necessarily nowadays people are, uh, they're, they're, um, making fake profiles so that they can, um, take deposits and stuff like that.
01:18:05
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, I see. i So they they use your art to make a fake thing and then take fake deposits?
01:18:06
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:18:09
Keith
oh
01:18:09
jet tamburri
They make a, yeah, they make a fake Instagram.
01:18:10
Keith
Oh. Mm-hmm.
01:18:11
jet tamburri
Yeah. I've had people send me, Oh, look at this.
01:18:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay.
01:18:14
jet tamburri
This isn't, this isn't you. You need this.
01:18:16
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Wow.
01:18:17
jet tamburri
You need to, you know, delete this or, you know, report it.
01:18:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Okay. Okay.
01:18:20
jet tamburri
So yeah, people.
01:18:21
DEFENSE
No shit.
01:18:21
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, that's too bad. And, and Eric, have you had have you had a piece you copied verbatim? Or more like inspiration?
01:18:28
DEFENSE
Um, yes, I've had people copy me. But most of the time, they've been people who have been like, hey, would you mind if I copied this? And I'm always willing to let them do that.
01:18:41
DEFENSE
Because that's the only way that you learn is by copying people that you look up to.
01:18:46
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And you have a whole new income stream with YouTube, right? You're not, know, it's very different, I suppose.
01:18:52
DEFENSE
Yeah, but even if that wasn't the case, much of my work, or at least the pieces that stand out in my portfolio, a lot of those techniques are done by hand.
01:19:04
DEFENSE
And so coming back to like the technique perspective of it, even if you try to copy it, your hand's going to work differently than mine does.
01:19:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:12
DEFENSE
So by all means, try to copy because by the time you're finished with it, it's not going to look like one of my pieces.
01:19:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:19:17
DEFENSE
Yeah.
01:19:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And Keith, have you had?
01:19:19
Keith
Yeah, the same. Because some of the things I build, I make plans for so people can build them. But I've also seen other people you know inspired by, i built this piece with only one drawer instead of two, but like straight up ripped off and started selling for profit? No.
01:19:36
Keith
And ah you can...
01:19:36
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:19:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:19:38
Keith
but Anything that I put, I put the stuff out there on YouTube for people to look at, absorb, build if you want, give it a try.
01:19:45
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Hmm.
01:19:46
Keith
um But, you know, because I'm certainly not gatekeeping my designs because that's the whole purpose is showing people like the process of how I build, how I design.
01:19:57
Keith
And then what the end product is. So if you want to try to rip that off and realize this is going to take me six weeks to make one of these and try to profit off it, go right ahead.
01:20:07
Keith
But if, you know, if I, if I had a specific piece of furniture, like a line of furniture where I had a bedroom set, there was all, you know, in the same vein, the same design that I sold and someone ripped that design straight off and started selling it.
01:20:21
Keith
Yeah. Then there would be a problem, but no one has.
01:20:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You know, at a 10,000 foot,
01:20:24
DEFENSE
Well, ah like like Jet said, if you don't want people to copy, you don't put that shit on the internet.
01:20:27
Keith
Yeah, yeah. I guess i guess you figure some people have morals, but I guess they don't.
01:20:29
jet tamburri
Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say
01:20:31
DEFENSE
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:35
jet tamburri
Yeah, it's it's double-edged sword.
01:20:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
well at ten thousand foot
01:20:38
Keith
Yeah.
01:20:38
DEFENSE
yeah
01:20:39
Keith
Mm-hmm.
01:20:39
jet tamburri
you know?
01:20:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
At a 10,000 foot view, I guess one of the the notes I had written down for today's episode is, are you in an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset?
01:20:50
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
That tends to be one of the ways we kind of a framework for considering how much we share or don't share. Now, I think this is heavily influenced by money now, right? i I was just thinking from a hobbyist point of view, abundance versus a scarcity mindset.
01:20:59
Keith
Mm
01:21:04
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
You say, well, what's what are those? An abundance mindset being like, oh, I have no shortage of ideas. If you wanna copy my idea, you go ahead because I'm already five ideas down the road. I could give a shit that you copy a design from like you know five years ago.
01:21:13
Keith
hmm.
01:21:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
you You knock yourself out. Like that has no nothing on me. Or the abundance mindset could be, oh, there's so many customers out there.
01:21:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Like, go ahead, make something and, you know, sell it. Even if it's similar to mine, you go ahead. There's more than enough for all of us. Like there's enough meat on that bone for all of us. That's the abundance mindset.
01:21:26
DEFENSE
Thank you.
01:21:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
The scarcity mindset is like, There's not enough. I'm trying to survive here. If you take you know if you copy my technique or copy my design, you're going to take my customers. And I haven't had a lot of new, you know i i don't have a lot of great ideas come to me all the time. So I have to kind of put a wall around what I do have because I got to fucking make this work.
01:22:03
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And i don't mean i don't mean to color it as like one's good and one's bad because it kind of came off that way. But I know. But I do – that is a very interesting framework for thinking about this. I think the abundance versus the scarcity. But it's heavily dependent on now I see like – hobbyism or like hobbyists versus professionals and money.
01:22:26
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Is this your full-time thing or is this just for fun? It's so much easier to have an abundance mindset when you're not, your family's not surviving on this, right?
01:22:33
DEFENSE
Yeah, when it doesn't cost you anything to lose.
01:22:35
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:22:35
jet tamburri
Yeah, exactly.
01:22:36
DEFENSE
Yeah.
01:22:37
jet tamburri
That's where I want to be. I want to get into something so that this is more, it's fun again. And I don't really care. It's like, but then I'll get, yeah, we're in a weird time with tattooing right now.
01:22:42
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:22:47
jet tamburri
Anybody you ever talk to is definitely not as, I don't know what is going on. And I don't, it could be with everything going on in the world. People don't want to spend a lot of money these days. They're trying to hold onto it. Things are super expensive.
01:22:58
jet tamburri
You know, it's just been real weird and times have been different for people. So
01:23:02
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Jet, I don't know anything about the tattoo market. Is it down now compared to what it used to be?
01:23:05
jet tamburri
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Mm-hmm.
01:23:08
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Really?
01:23:10
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
And and just just just what percent of, if you just pull 10 people off the street, right, random, how many have a tattoo?
01:23:10
jet tamburri
It is.
01:23:20
jet tamburri
Oh, I mean, the majority of people have tattoos these days. The people that I feel, the people that don't have tattoos are the oddballs now.
01:23:24
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah?
01:23:27
DEFENSE
the
01:23:27
jet tamburri
No offense.
01:23:27
Keith
Hey!
01:23:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Keith, Keith, you and I are oddballs, baby.
01:23:27
Keith
Yes!
01:23:28
jet tamburri
No offense. Ha ha.
01:23:30
DEFENSE
Well, we knew that. That has nothing to do with the tattoos.
01:23:32
jet tamburri
yeah
01:23:33
Keith
yes
01:23:33
DEFENSE
We knew that already.
01:23:33
jet tamburri
I just think that the amount of people that don't have tattoos to the amount of people that have tattoos have flopped now.
01:23:35
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:23:40
jet tamburri
You know what i mean? Back in the day, it was different.
01:23:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
hmm
01:23:42
jet tamburri
Now it's flopped where most people have a tattoo, you know, so. But it's just, yeah, I don't know. The industry is weird right now. It's everybody is always complaining about being slow and not that busy, you know, so it's interesting.
01:23:52
DEFENSE
Hmm.
01:23:57
Keith
Do you think part of that is there's a lot more tattoo artists?
01:24:00
jet tamburri
It could be, yeah. And that's you know in Florida, right? Florida is a place where they're on every corner, everywhere. And so generally Florida is not a good place to work.
01:24:10
Keith
Hmm.
01:24:14
jet tamburri
Arizona was the same way.
01:24:15
Keith
Hmm.
01:24:15
jet tamburri
They were everywhere. When I first moved here, it was great because there was only a handful of shops.
01:24:18
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Really?
01:24:22
jet tamburri
Now, there I mean, it's just shop after shop after shop after shop and private studio after private studio.
01:24:27
DEFENSE
Oh
01:24:27
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh, it's saturated.
01:24:29
jet tamburri
It's, yeah, way too saturated. So for me, I've been looking into this as like still doing it, but more on the not as a full-time thing.
01:24:43
jet tamburri
You know what i mean? Full-time in a way.
01:24:44
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:24:45
jet tamburri
I've got plans for things. I'm just trying to make them all come um true. So we'll see what happens.
01:24:52
Keith
You're going to gatekeep that for now.
01:24:53
jet tamburri
But yeah, yeah.
01:24:55
DEFENSE
ah yeah
01:24:56
Keith
ah
01:24:57
jet tamburri
But it's just, yeah, it's crazy.
01:24:57
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, y'all. Well, go ahead. Yeah.
01:25:00
jet tamburri
No, it's just...
01:25:01
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Well, yeah, I feel like we've had a any, any, any other lingering points anyone has no.
01:25:02
jet tamburri
the
01:25:09
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:25:09
DEFENSE
I think that was a strong fight.
01:25:09
Keith
No.
01:25:10
DEFENSE
That was really interesting to hear like your experience in that field and how it shifted over time.
01:25:10
Keith
Yeah.
01:25:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah.
01:25:17
DEFENSE
And the like I coming back to the conversation about like guilds and whatnot, like it's I think we come from a tradition that has been formalized in a way that tattooing has not.
01:25:28
DEFENSE
And that's been really interesting to hear how you've navigated that because of that lack of formality.
01:25:36
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:25:36
DEFENSE
So thanks for sharing that, man.
01:25:36
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:25:37
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Yeah, Jed, Jed, it seemed like the Wild Wild West, what you described compared to woodworking.
01:25:37
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:25:37
DEFENSE
That's super, super interesting, at least to me.
01:25:39
jet tamburri
yeah
01:25:41
Keith
Mmm.
01:25:43
jet tamburri
It definitely is exactly like the wild, wild west. It's crazy. I mean, and just it's funny because different places and different towns and and different mindsets, like, you know, a lot of there's, but still when people have a shop and they are, you know, living off that and making money off that, they get a little bit like they don't want to teach things because they don't want somebody to open up right next to them and take away from what they have.
01:26:09
DEFENSE
All
01:26:11
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I get it.
01:26:12
jet tamburri
You know what mean?
01:26:12
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
I get it. and and you And if what you said is true about it, like especially recently, incomes going down and it being saturated, that's even more of an issue, right?
01:26:13
jet tamburri
So.
01:26:22
jet tamburri
Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, so.
01:26:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All
01:26:23
DEFENSE
right. What I want to know in the after show for the folks who are coming up is the worst tattoo you've ever given chat, but save, save it, save it. That's that after show shit.
01:26:30
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
right.
01:26:31
Keith
fair
01:26:31
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right.
01:26:31
jet tamburri
Okay.
01:26:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
To get the after show, all you have to do is subscribe to our Patreon. You can find it in the liner notes. Plus, it would support us. We'd appreciate that. And Jet, thank you.
01:26:41
DEFENSE
Yeah.
01:26:41
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Thank you for being on today's show.
01:26:41
DEFENSE
Thank you, brother.
01:26:42
jet tamburri
Yeah, man. Thanks for having me, man. It's good.
01:26:43
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
How how can
01:26:43
jet tamburri
It's interesting. Your side is is interesting.
01:26:46
DEFENSE
of
01:26:47
jet tamburri
Just listening to all that stuff.
01:26:47
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
how can people find you if they want ah more about your tats to see your tattoos and
01:26:52
jet tamburri
ah So you can, so Instagram is triad tattoos and then it's triad tattoos.com.
01:26:52
Keith
A tattoo?
01:26:59
jet tamburri
have a website as well. And you can just kind of go on there and reach, reach me by email or DM. However, i pretty good at
01:27:06
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Oh i i hope you get i hope you get someone from this episode, especially someone who's like, I want this.
01:27:13
DEFENSE
yeah
01:27:13
Keith
yeah
01:27:14
jet tamburri
at.
01:27:14
Keith
sir Use coupon code SCORPIONDICK for 10% off.
01:27:16
jet tamburri
Well, like I said, they, they,
01:27:17
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All
01:27:19
DEFENSE
Yep. yeah
01:27:20
Keith
of the experience.
01:27:20
jet tamburri
They, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:27:21
Keith
See ya.
01:27:23
jet tamburri
They can't be upset when I yell at them.
01:27:23
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
all right, y'all.
01:27:25
jet tamburri
I told them this straight out.
01:27:26
Keith
yeah
01:27:26
jet tamburri
If they come at me with some bullshit, they're going to get bullshit right back.
01:27:28
Keith
yeah yeah
01:27:30
jet tamburri
So that's fine. That's totally fine.
01:27:31
Keith
hu
01:27:32
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
Note, you've been warned, listeners.
01:27:32
jet tamburri
Yeah.
01:27:32
Keith
as part of the experience yeah
01:27:34
jet tamburri
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:27:34
DEFENSE
Oh, fucking amazing.
01:27:36
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
All right, y'all. let'll We'll see you in the after show.
01:27:38
DEFENSE
All right, friends. Bye.
01:27:40
Woodworking is Bullsh*t
right. Bye, everyone.