Transcript
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I thought about writing a sophisticated and flowery opening for today. And then after rereading it, I said, fuck it. Let's get straight to the point. Why do some people openly share their technical knowledge and designs and art while others are more defensive, guarding that knowledge like a coveted trade secret?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The answer to this question is a complex, layered, and chronological story about how the arts have changed over time. Let's hurt some feelings today.
jet tamburri: Ha ha.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, hello and welcome back to your favorite podcast. This is Woodworking is Bullshit. I'm your host, Paul Jasper of Copper Pig Woodworking, scientist by day, woodworker by night. And of course, in the chair, my boy, Eric Curtis, fine furniture maker and content creator.
DEFENSE: Is
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And everybody's favorite, my favorite, Eric's favorite, Jet's favorite, Keith, everyone's favorite, Johnson.
Keith: Wow.
DEFENSE: is that what the J stands for?
Keith: It's news to me. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And with us today for this special episode is Jet Tambori, who happens to be Keith's brother-in-law. Jet is an accomplished tattoo artist from Philly, and he has
DEFENSE: go birds.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and
jet tamburri: Go birds.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and Jet has some definite experience on this topic of territorialism and defensiveness in the arts. Jet, welcome to the show today.
jet tamburri: How's going, fellas?
DEFENSE: Thanks for coming on, buddy.
jet tamburri: Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So ah this topic has something, you know, we've we've kind of talked about ah for some time. we've We've talked about territorialism in terms of copying. That was our very first episode of the podcast ever was copying.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But I think it's a lot bigger than that because that's only one part of this much larger conversation, which is like, how open are you? Do you share relationships? Or are is is it more like a trade secret and you guard it? And I think, you know, talking with Eric before the episode, it became clear to me that historically, at least,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think if you think about medieval guilds and like, you know, ah experts, you know, in painting and the and the various maker craft, it has always been a closely guarded secret. Those guilds were not were not advertising how they did their shit on every street corner. So I'd like to just start, Eric, you know, you you seem to resonate very deeply with that idea that for for so long with with humans and art, it's it's always been a closely guarded secret how to do the thing.
DEFENSE: Well, I mean, i i think as soon as money becomes involved, then people become defensive about the things they know and what they share and what's interesting about the moment we live. And again, we were talking about this kind of on the pre-call.
DEFENSE: we're in a unique moment where that's flipping on its head. And I don't think it's necessarily started with the Internet and with YouTube, but it's become much more profitable since the advent of YouTube that sharing your knowledge is the income rather than the making of the thing.
DEFENSE: So, um yeah, I mean, the the history of woodworking is is flooded with people who, when other crafts folk would come into the shop, would throw blankets over the pieces that they were making so that they couldn't see the piece in progress and dissect how they got to the end goal.
DEFENSE: Like, that's that's the tradition we've come from. And now, you know, we live in an age where you can Google just about anything and find out how it's done.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, the information age has definitely flipped things on its head. So Jet, you know, you you definitely have a unique experience from, think, anyone we've we've never had anyone tattoo on the show ever, right, Eric?
DEFENSE: No?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jett, welcome. You're our first tattoo artist ever.
Keith: Nuh-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So Jett, tell us a little bit about you, how you got into tattooing and like ah a little bit of of your experience. And then tell us what you see about territorialism in the tattoo world.
jet tamburri: So I was kind of lucky when I started. I started in the mid to late ninety s i grew up in the field in Philadelphia and was heavily involved in graffiti.
jet tamburri: So I was out there painting walls and, you know, I had a bunch of friends that got arrested.
DEFENSE: Oh,
jet tamburri: So I said to myself, I'm not going to jail or getting a fine heavily for this shit. So what I did was I started looking around and I saw a bunch of the little corner store of bodegas, which I'm sure you see still, that have tons of shit all over them.
jet tamburri: So I said, you know what? Let me go ask this guy he'll let me paint his wall. So I went... painted a wall. He let me paint a whole side of his place and that turned into different permit walls all throughout the city. And I had two Spanish twins walk up to me and asked me to paint their tattoo shop.
DEFENSE: hmm
jet tamburri: So while painting that, they asked me if I ever wanted to learn. Quickly realized that they were just trying to have people working there to pay their dad back who fronted the money for their shop.
DEFENSE: hmm
jet tamburri: So I kind of got in pretty easily.
Keith: Bye.
jet tamburri: But back then it was, you know, Philadelphia was predominantly bikers. They call it biker run. So it was kind of crazy, which I did end up working for.
jet tamburri: And was involved in a lot of that shit. And that's why why I ended up in Vermont, just to clear my head. And I looked in the mirror one and said, I'm going end up in jail or in prison. You know, I rode bikes and I rode around with these guys, but I wasn't trying to patch in. i had no interest in that shit.
jet tamburri: But my friends friends did. And yeah, just it was just crazy. So long story short.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah both Eric and I are smiling like Cheshire cats wondering like what the hell's going on man
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: Well, I'm also I'm also thinking about like walking around my neighborhood and, and you know, between my house in the shop.
Keith: Ha
jet tamburri: but
DEFENSE: um We've got like just the the hordes of people like it's usually after sunset in the summer that just like, you know, the but the biker gangs that roll through.
DEFENSE: And I'm like, I was about to say, like, how how many of my boys do you know rolling down Aramengo?
jet tamburri: I can name them all.
Keith: ha ha ha
jet tamburri: ah
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: Yeah.
jet tamburri: I know a lot of them. i Like I said, some of them some of them aren't here anymore. You know what i mean? like
DEFENSE: Mmm,
jet tamburri: There's instances where people got clipped off and that's why I was like, okay.
DEFENSE: Gotta get out. Get out the game.
jet tamburri: I got a, well, I wasn't in the game. I was in the game, but not, not in the game with, yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have the belt and the, and the vest, but I was pretty goddamn close, you know?
Keith: Mm-hmm.
DEFENSE: You were game adjacent.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, the underwear.
jet tamburri: ah Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right. All right. And so how long did you do tattooing there for?
jet tamburri: Fine.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: has it been straight through ever since?
jet tamburri: Oh yeah. So like, obviously the beginning years, it was, am I going to be able to do this? I did some other things, work with some friends, do some different, but I'd say, probably around 2002, three is when it was just non, like it's been nonstop from there.
jet tamburri: So I've seen a bunch of different stuff. Like you said, back then people didn't want to teach you stuff, but because,
DEFENSE: Well, let's let's let's start there. I'm curious about that. So you're you're trying to break into tattooing in the early 90s, mid-90s.
jet tamburri: mm hmm yeah.
DEFENSE: And you start working at the shop. Somebody there took you under their wing, showed you kind of the basics of the trade.
jet tamburri: Sure sure.
DEFENSE: And then you're trying to... like I don't know enough about the field of tattooing to understand how the development of kind of your voice, for lack of a better way to phrase it, develops.
jet tamburri: hmm.
DEFENSE: So at that point, are you tattooing in a bunch of different traditions? Are you doing American traditional? Are you doing like, like it put me in that headspace when where you are in the early 90s?
DEFENSE: What type of shit are you tattooing? And what type of clientele are you having?
jet tamburri: so in So the first shop, the two Spanish brothers, that was more of like a like gangster type shop. theres I was doing like old English letters, like people that were, you know, so I had free range just of skin because they're people getting out of prison.
DEFENSE: Mm.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: They didn't care. This guy's coming up and hey, you want to get a free tattoo?
DEFENSE: Mm.
jet tamburri: They didn't give a shit.
DEFENSE: Oh, so you're doing it for free.
jet tamburri: So I was able...
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: So at first when you're apprentice, I was doing just free tattoos to learn, but that's what you need when you start out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What?
DEFENSE: Mm.
jet tamburri: Picture what you guys do, right? If you had a shit ton of wood and you could just burn it up and ruin all the wood you could, you could you'd figure it out.
DEFENSE: Mm.
DEFENSE: Yeah. Yeah. ah Sure, sure, sure.
jet tamburri: You know what I mean?
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: but But when you know when you don't have skin to work on, you can't really figure it out. It's a diff it's art, but it's a different medium. It's not like a brush.
jet tamburri: It's a moving canvas. It's bleeding on you. You know, you bleed. You're like, ah, you know what I'm saying?
DEFENSE: Sure.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: So it's just... it's Having a ton of people to work on helps you in the early stages. But back then it was tribal, shit on the wall.
jet tamburri: oh I like that one. You know what i mean? People just picked. Then, you know, Batman was a thing and Ren and Stimpy was a thing.
DEFENSE: ah ah Hold on!
jet tamburri: people i My buddy got... but my
DEFENSE: How many red and simpy tattoos have you done?
jet tamburri: When I was 16, I went in, I got a little tribal thing that I drew up that was my graffiti name. And my buddy got, I think it was either Ren or Stimpy popping out of a hole on his back of his...
DEFENSE: Fucking amazing.
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: No notes, it's perfect.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: No, it was just like, it was just crazy. But back then it was kind of weird because... Back then, you know, all these guys were just trying to have people working for them, right?
jet tamburri: So they didn't care.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: They were bringing people in. Then it hit like the tat boom, which we call it in like the early 2000s, where it started to get more art and more, you know, it started to get lot different and and more lucrative too. So that's when I think people started to kind of, you know, they were kind of gatekeeping.
jet tamburri: Gatekeeping is what they call it in ours is, you know, trying to keep it from other people and shit like that. So it was a lot tougher.
DEFENSE: What, what were they, what were they trying to keep specifically? Was it a technique? Was it a design? Like what?
jet tamburri: I think, i think if if I had to guess, I think the fact that there were shops opening up all over the place. And they were trying to keep it closed so that people, because think about it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Somebody comes in, you teach them everything you know, and they say, all right, fuck you. And they go down the street and open up a shop. Well, now you have a competitor right there.
DEFENSE: Sure. Sure.
jet tamburri: And that's where, I mean, there was people in Philadelphia that tried to now, actually, i don't know if it's still a thing because I haven't been there forever, but it got so bad with so many people moving there and opening up shops and tattooing that they put in a you have to be an apprentice.
DEFENSE: Sure.
jet tamburri: So I would have to sign for you as an of my apprentice for two years, and then you would get your license. And that's how it's kind of that's,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, that's gatekeeping.
DEFENSE: a
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's gatekeeping.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right.
DEFENSE: Mmm. the The tattoo artists banded together. Like, almost, for lack of a better way to phrase it, like, unionized.
jet tamburri: No, the city.
DEFENSE: Oh, the city did.
jet tamburri: Yeah, the city of Philadelphia did. So if you're familiar with, I don't want to say names, but the two main people in Philadelphia, one of them, he went to the city and he put in these laws that you weren't able to have a tattoo shop within 300 feet or 500 feet of a church or a school.
DEFENSE: Mmm.
jet tamburri: or you And then you had to... Yeah, same thing. you had to You had to prove that you were tattooing before 2000 or you had to be an apprentice of somebody. And you had to work in their shop with them under them for two years.
jet tamburri: So that kind of like instead of signing like a non-compete type of thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
jet tamburri: So, but yeah, I mean, it was crazy. It was a but bit of an ass, but yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, you know, I just, I just, I just came back.
Keith: Ha.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah. So that whole idea of apprenticeship, I just came back from Europe and everyone who knew I was a like the people who I mentioned, I was a woodworker. They were always quick to tell me, yeah, they were quick to tell me like, you have to go through a rigorous like four year multi-step process to become a quote unquote woodworker and only woodworkers could do work on like commercial establishments.
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
DEFENSE: Where'd you train? Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And if you saw like there was a pergola, we were sitting outside in Switzerland and there was this random ass pergola, right? Just at some random ass restaurant. And I tell you, it was so exquisitely done.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Every corner was chamfered. Everything was perfect. I thought maybe Keith did it. And, uh,
DEFENSE: ah There was no brass inlaid in there.
Keith: No, because i was it didn't take 100 years to build.
DEFENSE: Come on Yeah, yeah.
Keith: na
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: No, it but it seems like that almost like rolling back, Jet, to like the the apprenticeship guild journeyman mentality.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: I was going to say the way he was describing it sounded very guild mentality of like,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: mentality
jet tamburri: Oh, yeah. I mean, people still, but now like, okay. And the other thing too is here's the other thing. If to order in order to buy supplies, you had to work and prove that you worked at a tattoo shop. You just couldn't buy supplies anywhere.
jet tamburri: Nowadays, you can buy them on Amazon. So you guys all three could go on Amazon buy machines and be tattooing each other Keith could be tattooing the rest of your sleeve if you wanted to Yeah,
Keith: go.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh my God.
Keith: i
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: kid
DEFENSE: Woo!
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That sounded like an invitation, Jet.
DEFENSE: That's it.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
DEFENSE: Only if it's Ren and Stimpy related though.
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure Yeah, so that shit has changed within like
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Keith, where...
Keith: it's good
jet tamburri: I don't know. Probably, i mean, just, I don't know. a lot of that shit was coming over from China and they just said, screw this shit. So they started selling it. I mean, you could just, because even like the companies that were buying it, you could go online, but you had to prove that you were a tattoo artist.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, so there was gatekeeping in terms of like apprenticeship now.
Keith: Mm-mm.
jet tamburri: You could...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Laboon brought with it apprenticeship gatekeeping and materials gatekeeping. Yeah?
jet tamburri: Well, yes, it was trying to control, like, for instance, Florida, Arizona, same thing. You don't need, there's no health regulations there.
DEFENSE: Well, sure.
jet tamburri: So like in, in
DEFENSE: i mean, you can snort bath salts like you're doing just fine in Florida.
Keith: ah ah
jet tamburri: In Philadelphia and here in Arizona, we have to have the health department come in and and inspect us. Inspect us. You know what I'm saying? they have You can tattoo wherever the hell you want, but you can't yeah you can't you can't have a license or work in a shop or stuff like that.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: And it's illegal. So if you're tattooing out of your house, you can get in trouble. I don't know. Slap on the wrist. I don't really know what they'll do, but... But it's funny what you were talking about when you said over in when you were overseas that you have to have a whole like, is that just a work on?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, and then go ahead.
jet tamburri: Is that can you just work out of your house and stuff like that? Or do is that like actual career type stuff? You can't do it at all.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think it's it's like, no, I think you have to go to school and have ah a proper like apprenticeship with a master for a certain number of years and then you're allowed to work.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then I think there's some more regulate. Eric, you probably know more about this.
DEFENSE: Yeah, you're not you're not allowed to sell furniture as an individual unless you are licensed in most Europe.
jet tamburri: Okay, that makes sense.
DEFENSE: i And I don't know about the whole of Europe, but but most, we'll say, Germanic culture countries.
jet tamburri: Hmm.
DEFENSE: ah So like you you have to basically like go through an apprenticeship, become a master woodworker, then get your licensure, and then and only then are you allowed to sell like a fucking table.
Keith: Hmm.
DEFENSE: You know, so like over over here.
jet tamburri: Well, they probably saw shallow hell and the fucking seat went blue out and shit like that.
Keith: ah ah
jet tamburri: Because that's the same thing with welding, right?
DEFENSE: ah That's
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Thank you.
jet tamburri: You could be a welder. I've got i've got a welder in my garage.
DEFENSE: that's that's the first shallow Hal reference on this podcast.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: That's fucking what a cut.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: What a cut. Yeah.
jet tamburri: I mean, i like I said, i've I've got a welder. I can weld shit together. I fix my exhaust.
DEFENSE: yeah
jet tamburri: But can I go weld structures together where people are going to be like, at you know, at risk of getting hurt and shit like that? No.
DEFENSE: Well, that's that's the difference between like ah a commercial license and just selling thing to something to an individual right over here.
jet tamburri: yeah. Yeah.
DEFENSE: So like anybody can build a table and then sell it on Etsy. And then if it falls apart, they run the risk of potentially getting sued, which is why we have LLCs and S-Corps and everything else.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Over there, i don't know what like the the kind of lawsuit situation is, but you are not allowed to put a table up for sale insofar as I understand it.
DEFENSE: Obviously, I could be wrong unless you have gone through the proper training.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. So Jet, what happened? So I understand like the boom occurred, some gatekeeping was put in place to kind of control the proliferation of unchecked.
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then like, what happened since then? Like, where how where are we today and how did we get there?
jet tamburri: So today we are in a screw this place. I've got clientele and I'm just going to go open up a private studio. That's where we're at today.
Keith: Hmm.
jet tamburri: And because people, all they care about is money. And why do I have to give this person part of my percentages? I just want all my money to myself. So I'm going to go into a private studio. And that's fine.
jet tamburri: If you have, you built yourself and you have a great clientele and all that, that's great. The problem is, is that if you bring somebody in as an apprentice, right? Why, if I've been tattooing since 97, over 25 years, why would I give all my knowledge to somebody and then send them out the door?
DEFENSE: Well
jet tamburri: So for me, if somebody says apprentice, I just, I like look around like, did I hear something? Because i don't, you know, right now I don't own a shop, so I can't, I don't have a spot for them, number one.
jet tamburri: Number two, if an i even if I did, you have two options. One option one is you sign a non-compete that you're gonna stay there with me for five years, or you're gonna give me a large sum of money where if you decide in a year that you're gone, well, that's fine, you just paid me because I just gave you something and a career that you could take anywhere in anywhere, anywhere overseas, anywhere.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
jet tamburri: anywhere in the US anywhere
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
DEFENSE: So this is, this is really interesting. Can we talk more about like the structure that's set up for an apprentice? Cause you effectively, what you said is like you bring in an apprentice or an employee or whoever it is, and you own a shop and, uh, that person pays you a cut of their, you know, somebody pays a thousand dollars for, for tat and they give you a cut of that.
jet tamburri: Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm
jet tamburri: Normally when you come in it's 50 50 yeah, uh-huh
DEFENSE: It's 50, 50.
jet tamburri: Well, if you come in write it right off the bat, right? Normally how this is, this is how apprenticeships, this is how it normally works, right? You come in and I start teaching you, okay? You don't make shit. You don't touch a machine. You don't do shit. You work at the shop.
jet tamburri: in return for me teaching you how to work on stuff. You're checking things out, you're learning how the machines work, you're learning everything in here. Same thing with you guys, you're learning all these machines, how to do this, how to do that.
DEFENSE: Yeah, but this is this is why it's interesting because this system doesn't exist in our world anymore.
jet tamburri: You're talking to customers,
DEFENSE: This is why I want to hear you talk about it.
Keith: Hmm. Hmm.
jet tamburri: Yeah, and I mean, so in ah in my world, that's normally what you do, right?
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: so And that's how it was growing up in all the shops. You came in, the apprentice worked the front, he talked to the clients, he set everything up, he even set up the machines, he broke them down.
jet tamburri: He was basically a shop bitch. He did all the cleaning, he did all that stuff. And then once he was ready to start tattooing, maybe two years, whatever, a year, or two years, to pay oh yeah, depending on what it it what it was, Then they would start to tattoo.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: They would thank you. They would start working on smaller things. And yes, it was normally like a 50-50 split. We cover the supplies, all that stuff. And then you start tattooing, but you're making money.
jet tamburri: Most of these guys had other jobs. They would come in when they could, or they slept on couches.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: They fucking made it work because they wanted to be in the industry.
DEFENSE: Sure.
jet tamburri: But now... weve We had an apprentice one time at the shop and then it was like a month and they're like, when am I going to start tattooing? I'm like, motherfucker, never.
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: it With that attitude, you're not going to start tattooing.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: You know what i mean?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Keith: and
jet tamburri: So it's just crazy. And now, like I said, you it's everything's easily accessible. You can order shit from anywhere. I mean, I've got a story. I don't know how graphic I can go on this bitch, but...
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, let's go.
DEFENSE: Please, please, go for it.
jet tamburri: This fucking guy, this this is how crazy this shit is.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: This guy comes in and he's got like this weird t-shirt, shorts. I'm like, this motherfucker's got bodies in his goddamn, in his basement, right?
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: I just called it out. He was fucking crazy.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: So sure enough, he comes in for this tattoo. He met this Russian chick overseas and she liked the color red and he wanted to get a scorpion on his junk and the tail going down onto his dick.
jet tamburri: So I just was like, yo, you guys can have that shit. I fucking leave.
Keith: Ahahahahahahaha.
jet tamburri: And I, I, I,
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: That goes in one ear, out the other. i totally forget about it. I come back in and I'm hearing, like these curtains are closed. i'm not paying attention. I hear this moan and I'm like, is that fucking front desk girl watching porn?
jet tamburri: What the fuck is going on?
Keith: no
jet tamburri: This bitch, you you know, it's it's all rubber. You got to keep that thing hard to try and tattoo it. Anyway, they got through part of it.
DEFENSE: Ha ha ha.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Bye.
jet tamburri: that That's not the best part. The girl who did it only got the outline done. His next appointment, she had to fly out of town. So he got bent out of shape and was all fucking pissed off because I guess Shlovanka was coming to town and he wanted that shit done.
Keith: Oh. Oh. Ah.
jet tamburri: So he comes in finally for his appointment and she told me that it was all choppy and somebody tried to fucking fill it in. She asked him, his cousin ordered a machine on Amazon and tried to fill it in for him.
Keith: oh
jet tamburri: So that's how accessible these fucking, our our supplies are these days. Psychopaths can have their cousins fill in their dick tattoos and shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric.
jet tamburri: but
DEFENSE: That's the t-shirt we're making from this episode right there.
Keith: ah yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric, when Jed suggested we tattoo each other...
jet tamburri: Crazy.
jet tamburri: yeah There you go.
Keith: ah Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
jet tamburri: There you go.
Keith: That's not what he meant.
DEFENSE: Just the root though. Just the root.
Keith: Yeah. Jesus.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Keith, I have some ideas for us, big guy.
Keith: Jesus. No. Where are we going to put the tattoo of Jerry and Lola?
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Keith: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Well, well Jet, um first of all, the the part you said about the the younger generation being like, I've been here a month, what the fuck, right? That totally jives with like the entitlement of the younger generations.
jet tamburri: Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: They are not they are not used to the long wait time and the long...
jet tamburri: Oh, yeah, yeah. No.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you know they they They want a seat at the table because mommy and daddy told me I'm special my whole life and I'm ready.
Keith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I want a seat at the table now. I don't think they're in general and I'm generalizing. I'm sure there's plenty of great young people out there who want to work hard for a long period of time. But that jives with what I've noticed about.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: I haven't met them.
DEFENSE: now ah
jet tamburri: I haven't met them at all. Everybody just wants it now.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
jet tamburri: I mean, it's instant gratification. It's fucking stupid.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: so so then where So then where are we today in terms of like the tattoo world?
jet tamburri: You know, you got to put the time in.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Are we like, is the apprentice system dead or is it shifted significantly?
jet tamburri: I mean, there's people that still take apprentices. um I'll see them online. People asking, know, still, you know, looking for one, but it's very rare. I mean, I think people have gotten such a bad taste in their mouth and there's no um respect anymore. There's no people don't respect the industry. They don't respect the people that are doing it. I mean, somebody is going to willing to teach you.
jet tamburri: you know, you you would think that you would want to stay with that person because they they've given you, you know, the opportunity to work in their shop. So you want to stay with them, right? No, they're just fuck you.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
jet tamburri: I'm out, you know, so I think it's just.
DEFENSE: So if somebody wants to get into tattooing now, how do they go about doing that? Is it like, is, is the path of least resist?
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not making a defense for this.
Keith: YouTube.
DEFENSE: Yeah. But like, this is generally, genuinely what I'm wondering is the path of least resistance then given the way that you just framed that to order a machine off of Amazon and start tattooing your friends.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
jet tamburri: It's funny you say that because that is the flip side of the coin, right?
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: The girl at the coffee shop that I go to has asked me, hey, you know, asked me about an apprenticeship and asked me how to get into one.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: Number one, I took my coffee and left. I was like, good luck.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
Keith: Ha ha ha ha
jet tamburri: But then kind of felt bad and I kind of I talked to She showed me her artwork and and everything. And I literally told her, I said, listen, you have two options. One option. One is go around and ask everybody if they're not somebody will take somebody in.
jet tamburri: I said, option two is buy a machine and just start scratching on your boyfriend or whoever else is going to let you because. That's pretty much the only way to do it. You know, if nobody, cause who am I to say that you can't become a tattoo artist, you know, excuse me.
DEFENSE: Sure.
jet tamburri: I'm not going to teach you because I don't trust anybody with that shit, but, and I'm trying to keep myself busy and the industry is so crazy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jet, Jet, wait, Jet.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: let me let let me Let me ask you right there.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Because I, you said, because I don't trust anybody with this my shit. What does that really mean? Can you decode that for me?
jet tamburri: So, like I said, I've been doing it forever. I've seen i've seen it all. I've done it all. I've i've tattooed. I've been through every fad, every new machine, every everything.
jet tamburri: I've been through it all.
DEFENSE: I mean, Dick Scorpion is all you have to tell me.
Keith: Oh, yeah.
jet tamburri: Yeah, exactly.
Keith: yeah yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Ha ha ha ha!
DEFENSE: you know like
jet tamburri: Yeah. I've seen i've seen it all. i've no all you know I feel like, I mean, you're always learning. You're always seeing new tricks sometimes. There's new tricks. Some shit I'm like, yeah, that's going to look like dog shit.
jet tamburri: You know what i mean? But all this fine line micro tattoos, dog shit. They're all going to be blobs on people's skins. You know what i mean? but and And I talk to people that do that stuff and it's funny. They say, the picture's not for you. It's for the people that are looking at it So basically give them some shit that's going to look like crap in five years.
jet tamburri: And who cares? Take the picture because then you're going get more people that want to get that shit.
DEFENSE: Mmm. Mmm.
jet tamburri: When it's like, i no, I'm going to give you straight up that that's going to turn into a blob of shit, you know? And most of my clients are like, thank you.
DEFENSE: Mmm.
jet tamburri: Some of them fight me and say, no, I want this this big, you know? but But yeah, I mean, it's just... I've just seen, i've i've I've watched people, I've talked to people, and I've seen the people that have come into shops try and learn some shit, think they've got it figured. We think we have it in our own in our own spot.
jet tamburri: People think that they've got it figured out after a few years and they're just going to go off and do their own thing. And it's you know you're it's not it's not the way, you know what i mean? Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, that that would be like the woodworkers who don't really understand the laws of proper joinery. Eric, I see you nodding. Expansion, contraction, and and and and wood movement.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Keith: Wood movement.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And then they build tables and the tables break or they build cabinets and the cabinets break themselves apart because they didn't understand the finer points of joinery. Eric and Keith. Jett was like, yeah, i'm I'm not taking apprentices. That's not for me. It holds no value. There's value there. I don't mean but but for Jett, where he is, it doesn't make sense for him.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric and Keith, how do you feel about taking apprentices?
Keith: I would not. And there's a reason for that.
jet tamburri: His face and his lip.
Keith: like Eric is a Juilliard-trained furniture maker from the Center of Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine, right? Taught the right ways to do things.
DEFENSE: Juilliard.
Keith: I am self-taught. like ah I can get from A to B, but it's not always a straight line. And I don't always know the correct way. I can always figure out a way to get there.
DEFENSE: there's There's no fucking correct way, buddy. Get over that.
Keith: Sometimes there is. there's ah There's a better way or an easier way. or And sometimes I'm like, you know, my videos are like, this should work, but I don't know. I mean, it happened to you, right?
Keith: You had an unexplicable wood movement issue on one of your tables, right? The thing just split, broke.
DEFENSE: Hmm...
Keith: Like, you have no idea why.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
Keith: So sometimes... You can build something that defies the laws of furniture making and wood movement. And you're like, whoa it worked. it's cool. And then the next time you do it, it doesn't work. The best thing you can do is to set yourself up for success is do things the right way, figuring out movement, wood movement, how they this way, that way. But to take on some and I am also being self-taught like safety is generally not my first concern.
Keith: ah ah look
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Nya ha ha ha ha!
jet tamburri: Ha ha ha.
Keith: ah Larissa will tell you that like push sticks, I think push sticks are firewood. like I don't want to use a push stick. My thumb and forefinger, those are my push sticks.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
Keith: And I used a push stick last night and it got me into trouble. I almost got kicked back because I was using a push stick. because it's slipping on the wood whereas my finger does not and i can't see the saw blade because the damn push stick is in the way so i can't see that the wood is coming away from the fence so you know in a lot of my videos i will use a push stick just for youtube and and if i remove a guard i'll say guard has been removed for visible vision you know for visible purposes or whatever um because people the
DEFENSE: Ah.
Keith: The safety police are out in numbers on YouTube. They love just ripping you apart for doing things unsafely. We're like free free handing on the table saw.
jet tamburri: Really?
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: That's crazy.
Keith: That's how I was taught to scribe trim. There's nothing unsafe. There's it's unsafe if you do it wrong, but there's a right way to to free hand on the table saw.
jet tamburri: I never even thought about that.
DEFENSE: Sure is.
Keith: So that's why that's why when people ask, hey, I'd love to come over and you teach me. I'm like, not really. Like, I just don't like here buy by this book by fine woodworking where.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: KJ, we can we can we can listen, buddy, we can break down your emotional well-being off the call. But I think I think we need to have a conversation about this because, you know, more than 98 percent of people.
DEFENSE: Okay, you've built a lot of brilliant things and and you know I don't give out compliments as far as design and and craftsmanship like willy nilly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
Keith: I appreciate that.
DEFENSE: You know what the fuck you're doing.
Keith: All right.
DEFENSE: What I do think this is an issue of is being self-taught in the age of YouTube. There's what, what I can tell you definitively right now is there is no one right way to do anything.
Keith: Mm.
DEFENSE: There are faster and slower ways. There are more accurate and less accurate ways. There are ways to get shit done and there are ways to get shit done that will last, you know, an extra 50 years or a hundred years in the, in the grand scheme of things.
DEFENSE: But, um, Sam Maloof, who we all regard as one of the great woodworkers of the 20th century, excuse me,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Great designers, anyway.
DEFENSE: ah Well, i but he's often held up as like one of the fathers of the studio craft movement. He was self-taught. He didn't know what the fuck he was doing. You ever see that asshole walk on, like use a bandsaw?
DEFENSE: like yeah Like Jesus fucking Christ. Like he was, he was, he had to like, how many times you almost cut his fingers off, you know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: His hands were close. I saw.
DEFENSE: But he also...
jet tamburri: Don't they have like stops? Like, doesn't it?
DEFENSE: No, that's, that's well, a, that didn't exist in his time.
jet tamburri: Okay,
DEFENSE: And B that's on a table soft, but that's like that.
jet tamburri: okay.
DEFENSE: He openly admitted the fact that he, he only knew the way to do it that he invented. And if you read any woodworking book by anybody who's like actually knew what they were doing was a lifelong teacher. Like take freed is a good example. He's got the, the, the, what is it? The working wood series or something of that nature. Um,
DEFENSE: Everything, every single technique in those books has multiple ways to do it. So there's no one way to do it.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
DEFENSE: But anyway, in regards to taking on an apprentice, I think the obligation that a teacher has to a student is is twofold. Number one, to teach them what the teacher knows, right? Not to teach them everything, but simply to teach them what they know. And to assess what Now, this is coming from my background as a school teacher, not as somebody running a business with an apprentice, but to assess what the student is good at and give them more of that to accentuate their skill set, right? So that they can kind of follow their tools and and become a master in whatever category that they would best fit. If I'm running a business, that shifts slightly because I have to consider the business first and the apprentice is an employee.
DEFENSE: um the apprenticeship model doesn't usually work in woodworking anymore because all of that information is accessible, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: Like you can just Google it, you can just YouTube it and it's there. And now it's kind of in this, I think maybe this kind of sucks, but it's kind of incumbent upon you to come to an employer having already gone through part of the apprenticeship process because all of that information is there for you to learn. If you want to learn the basics of wood movement, it's on YouTube. If you want to learn how to use a table saw, it's on YouTube. If you want to learn how to cut a dovetail, fucking Google it. like That's on you. Come to me after you've done that and then i can start to get you at that late stage apprentice, early stage journeyman and we can have a conversation about like how do you run a business? How do you interact with clients? How do you build shit that's going to
DEFENSE: It's not it's no longer kitchen cabinets. It's now standalone furniture that's going last somewhere between 100 and 500 years. I think that's where I would consider taking on a quote apprentice, but that's not an apprentice anymore. So it's like that's just an employee at that point.
Keith: But the problem with hiring someone as an apprentice who has learned things from YouTube is who knows who they've been watching. There are plenty of charlatans out there who, ah yeah to use Paul's word, who are doing things wrong.
DEFENSE: Sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: My favorite word.
Keith: how they there I mean, there is a wrong way to do. so I know I mentioned safety, but like pushing, you know, running your hand right over the blade of a jointer. Like there's certain places to put hands
DEFENSE: But that was...
Keith: And if you come in with like thinking, oh, you know how to use a table saw? Cool. Go ahead. And then you hear the saw, the frigging saw stop break go. Like what happened? Oh, I.
DEFENSE: Well, i that's a fair point.
Keith: Is
DEFENSE: But i I don't think that's any different from, let's call it 100 years ago. Somebody spends their apprenticeship with fucking, you know, Jack Dickey out here. And he, like, doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Who the hell's that?
DEFENSE: I don't know.
Keith: that a real person?
DEFENSE: Who fucking knows? That's not the important part.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: joe old Old man Dickie's boy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Old daddy greenbacks.
DEFENSE: And so he teaches old daddy Greenback. He doesn't teach this this this young person ah proper technique on anything. it's just He's just trying to get shit out the door.
DEFENSE: And then this guy comes to you and he's like, well, I just did a five-year apprenticeship. And he comes into into your shop and he's like, yeah you don't know dick about anything.
Keith: Okay.
DEFENSE: You know? So I don't think that's any different.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: Like, there's no quality control in apprenticeships either because that's just based on who you got lucky enough to get hired by.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Keith: okay
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right. So, so jet, it doesn't make sense for you based on where you are in your career, Keith, you don't feel like you have the formal education or the safety, or just even want that complexity or the time.
Keith: Or the time. I can't even build something on my own in a timely manner.
DEFENSE: Well, there's that. Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
Keith: or Never mind having someone look over my shoulder.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and, and,
Keith: Here's how to build something real. It takes six months. It should take you two weeks.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: all right. And Eric wants an apprentice that's already fully trained.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: who
jet tamburri: Well, he made a good point.
DEFENSE: Yeah, I'm lazy, man.
jet tamburri: I mean, he made a good point. I mean, there's tons of tattoo how-tos online, too. I mean, there's a ton of videos on there.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
jet tamburri: So a lot of people just look at that shit and just, you know, the difference between...
DEFENSE: Well, in...
Keith: But what do you practice on?
DEFENSE: in i so I've seen that on a website or three.
Keith: Do they make, like, ah prosthetic ah do they make prosthetic arms that you can practice on?
jet tamburri: Well, that's a difference. That's... hey yet They actually do. They're called Pound of Flesh.
Keith: Okay.
jet tamburri: And it's like, you could get a...
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: You could... Yes,
Keith: yeah Yeah.
jet tamburri: Yes, you have
DEFENSE: Man, don't know.
Keith: On my OnlyFans.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric Eric that's for the after show wow
Keith: Jesus.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: yeah
Keith: Okay.
jet tamburri: But yeah, they actually make like a hand and an arm from like here up like and you can tattoo it and shit you could just buy the hand No, no, no, no, no.
Keith: But is it like an Etch-a-Sketch where you can shake it and it removes it and you can start all over? Or you have to like keep buying new ones?
jet tamburri: Well, that's That's yeah, exactly you do and it's the same thing.
DEFENSE: So, well, are those cost prohibitive to some extent?
jet tamburri: I mean if you're burning up They do have thin swatches that are like four by six. And I told people to put it around a thing of paper towels and tape it around it so that you can actually practice on that.
Keith: Okay.
jet tamburri: Because obviously skin is not flat, right? So just wrap it around that and tattoo it and throw it away.
Keith: Right.
DEFENSE: Yeah. Well, So what what I'm wondering is like, I guess part of the reason why I said what I said ah to maybe justify what I was saying and I sound so much like an asshole is is like A lot of well, but but a lot of people.
Keith: hu
jet tamburri: It's fish town. It's getting to you.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: It's seeping in your blood.
DEFENSE: it's ah ah oh I was listen.
jet tamburri: It's the water.
DEFENSE: I was an asshole long before I lived in Fishtown, buddy.
jet tamburri: It's the water.
Keith: Oh, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and
Keith: The water. ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Go birds.
jet tamburri: it's the...
DEFENSE: ah Go birds.
jet tamburri: but
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
DEFENSE: I but i I there we we are in a moment where people can Google woodworking. And they see like it becomes romanticized.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. Hmm.
DEFENSE: And one way to distinguish the person who comes into the shop and says, I want to be a woodworker because I Googled it on Tuesday and it looks sexy versus the person who's actually like when who I was at 20, who was like, this is what I'm going to do with my life is how much have you invested in the thing before you come to me?
DEFENSE: How hard are you trying to learn? How hard are you, how much, how many of your resources are you willing to expel to like have some base level of understanding before you're trying to work in my shop? And I wonder if that's the same in tattooing of like, how many people are just like, it'd be cool if I learned how to tattoo and then they want to start an apprenticeship versus how many people, like, how do you distinguish those people who are like, 1000%, this is what I'm going to do with my life.
jet tamburri: Well, most people, they want to they want to, they're like, yeah, I want a tattoo and this looks cool. This is what I want to do.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: But they're trying to get into the industry. There's a ton of people that I know that are in your world that are just like, I want to make small shit in my garage and just, you know, just for fun.
jet tamburri: Just to say I made this like cutting board or some shit like that.
DEFENSE: who
jet tamburri: You know what i'm saying? i mean, there is, there's a bunch of guys that I know around here.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There are.
jet tamburri: Like, yeah, look, I made these cutting boards. I'm like, oh, that's cool. But like, But the it just seems like the people that are trying to get into my shit are like, yeah, they're trying to like, you know, open shops and do private studios.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see.
DEFENSE: So,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So one's primarily an industry and the other has a big hobby component to it.
jet tamburri: Yeah, there's no, I don't know any hobby tattoo artists.
Keith: Right.
jet tamburri: I don't know.
Keith: Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's a great distinction.
Keith: Ha ha
jet tamburri: I
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jet, that is a huge distinction between our two fields. Wow. Wow.
DEFENSE: That's what I was wondering.
jet tamburri: mean, unless you're, yeah.
DEFENSE: And it's like, like how much of that investment is in somebody who's just going to be like, oh okay, that was fun for a summer.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and And actually, eric Eric, I think this distinct...
DEFENSE: And now I'm gone.
jet tamburri: I mean, Reese Bobby, Ricky Bobby's dad, he's a semi-professional race car driver and an amateur tattoo artist.
Keith: ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. yeah
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: and That's the only fucking, that's the only hobby tattoo artist I ever know.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So Eric, that actually describes a big part of my confusion coming into today because I was thinking like, well, we have this we have this Instagram community, right?
jet tamburri: What do you want? What?
jet tamburri: I'm going to step out here for two seconds.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And yeah so we have this Instagram community, right? And it's sort of commonplace to share your knowledge, right? In in this particular Instagram bubble, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's like sharing is caring, right? We help each other. We tell people like what tools we use and how to do things. And it's a very open community. And that extends to your both of your livelihoods, right?
jet tamburri: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Is like YouTube. ah Your YouTubes are educational YouTubes. You show people how to do... so with Eric, which finishes to you, Keith, you go painstakingly through every every piece of every build and what you want to do and what what problems you had and how you could have avoided it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And that is primarily eaten up by hobbyists.
DEFENSE: Yes. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I would say, yeah.
DEFENSE: Yeah. I think the overwhelming majority are hobbyists.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: huh
DEFENSE: Yeah, that's fair.
Keith: Yeah, I don't think pro woodworkers are watching my stuff.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I mean, how...
DEFENSE: I, well, at least the people who leave the comments who are like, I've been a professional woodworker for 37 years and I Googled how to cut a dovetail on Tuesday at 1 PM.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, not...
Keith: Yeah, if, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, I guess...
Keith: If you leave your resume, you're automatically out because no no professional does that.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I would think out of all the people who leave comments on any of our media, we're talking about probably 90% plus hobbyists is my guess. Would you?
Keith: Hmm.
DEFENSE: I think that's probably fair.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: would you Okay.
DEFENSE: Yeah, certainly certainly above 70%.
Keith: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So that's a very different idea than what Jet's talking about, where it's like there is no hobby world. This is all professional, all in you know all industrial, all...
Keith: Hmm. Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you know, maximum strength grade, you're like tattooing people's skin, not easily removed. This is a totally different distinction. And I, wow, like I totally missed this coming into today.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You know, the idea that,
jet tamburri: I mean, there's people... Go ahead.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: well, it's just, I guess that what I come, what I come away with is when we consider hobbies, sharing is caring. When we consider money earning professions, not hobbies,
DEFENSE: The money's the crux of the argument, man.
jet tamburri: Yeah, absolutely.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: It's a very different world.
Keith: Mmm.
DEFENSE: As soon as your bottom line is effective, you become much more defensive over what you're you're willing to share with people.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: And your age.
Keith: Yeah!
jet tamburri: It depends on how old you are Because the the older tattoo guys that I know are very, very...
DEFENSE: Oh, that's fair.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well,
jet tamburri: They can't stand that shit. They can't stand the showing people shit. They don't like any of that stuff. They don't like
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I've seen it cut both ways, Jet.
DEFENSE: Interesting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I actually thought it was the opposite because as people get older and, you know, kind of grappling with their own mortality, they start to think, what good is it for me to die with all this information?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I need i owe it to my field to start teaching the next generation some of what I know. So I've seen many older woodworkers actually pivot towards teaching as they've they've aged.
DEFENSE: I feel like this is this is a difference of field, though. Like, ah ah Jet, correct correct me correct me if I'm wrong, but how many professional tattooers get into the game being like, I'm going live a long and fruitful life.
jet tamburri: Yeah, there's Tet ah No, no
DEFENSE: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jet tamburri: but
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric, man, they're gonna choke the chicken by the time they're 50.
DEFENSE: ah
Keith: Uh-huh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
Keith: Uh-huh.
jet tamburri: These, yeah, the people in this industry are, no, they're just, they live hard and fast, most of them, especially the older ones.
DEFENSE: yeah yeah yeah
jet tamburri: They've, you know, they're lucky to be still walking around, you know. They party too much back in the day.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
jet tamburri: But I think, yeah, and I think that just, I don't know.
DEFENSE: Yeah, 57, they're on bart borrowed time, you know?
jet tamburri: It's just... Yeah, I mean, you don't see tattoo schools. I mean, if there's a tattoo school mentioned, oh my God, people want to burn.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: There's no tattoo schools?
jet tamburri: Oh no, people want to burn those down. That's like, you can't say that. Oh my God.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What?
DEFENSE: Well, okay, okay. So this is an interesting thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
DEFENSE: So maybe this is born out of like just where the where the craft came from.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Holy shit.
jet tamburri: There's a girl. There's a girl around here who is a med spa who is like teaching people, but she's also bringing people in and teaching them like how to tattoo, how to use the machine, charging them a shit ton of money and then sending them off into like you know the and the into the world because it's all about money.
jet tamburri: she's getting like 10 grand or whatever she's getting. so and she's not showing them techniques or how to do shit. All she's showing them how to do is use the machine, hold it, pull a line, whatever. And then she just sending them down the road.
jet tamburri: So a lot of people are, I don't know how many younger people are like, oh I got 10 grand to do that shit. You know? So, but
DEFENSE: Well, so do you like, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm wondering, well, i'm I'm just genuinely curious.
jet tamburri: yeah, go for it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But I'm gonna.
DEFENSE: How much do you know about like the history of tattooing and and how we came to this moment because like the the woodworking tradition it's there's always been schools or like guilds you know but like it's never been to my understanding and have a very cursory understanding of the history of tattooing it's never been formalized in the way of like guilds in schools and in that kind of thing so like i i guess i'm just wondering if that plays into it
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: It's all, it's been, it's been taught. It's been taught to people by people, but not like a, where you can actually sit in a room with like five other chicks or guys and be like, okay, we're going to learn how to do this shit today.
jet tamburri: that There's the none of that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
jet tamburri: And there are, there are some, but those people are like, they don't, they're, they're, yes, yes.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So.
DEFENSE: Yeah, they're they're they're exercised from the community, right? Yeah. And like it' it kind of goes against like the the the cultural norm of tattooing, whereas in woodworking, having a formal education is the cultural norm.
jet tamburri: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
jet tamburri: yeah
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: And I wonder if that stems out of the woodworking thing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So different.
jet tamburri: So Keith is the bastard. Oh, my God. None.
Keith: Yeah.
DEFENSE: He's the...
jet tamburri: Oh, well, I take that back.
Keith: I'm the outcast.
jet tamburri: ah
Keith: Yeah.
DEFENSE: He's he's a bastard for sure.
Keith: yeah yeah
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: That's...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and So, jet Jet, how many people have you taught how to tattoo, would you say?
jet tamburri: a
jet tamburri: oh my god none oh well i take that bag So I'll see people.
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: Like, for instance, there's a girl that came into our studio. She was a nurse for 10 years. And then she started tattooing her husband and people in her kitchen just because she went through COVID as a nurse and hated it. and COVID, like, literally killed her and killed the nursing because she was ICU. you She was just over there.
jet tamburri: So she decided to to reach out and become a tattoo artist, which is funny because they said, oh, we're going hire this girl. said, oh, really? Where did she work before? Oh, that doesn't matter.
jet tamburri: She's she's she's nice. I'm like, I yeah don't give a fuck how nice she is.
Keith: Uh-huh.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: Where did she work before? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Keith: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
jet tamburri: Don't worry. she's she's She's better than everybody around here. I'm like, I don't give a fuck about where has this girl worked? And she just kept on like dodging it. And then come to find out she worked in her kitchen and she didn't work on anybody. So when she came into the shop, she really didn't have an apprenticeship.
jet tamburri: So she she was just like doing stuff. And I'm like, who whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. Like, you know, you need to do things a little bit different. You need to start out small. So I don't know. That's not really.
jet tamburri: t i guess I taught her some things, but I never really took anybody on as an apprentice.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Who taught you?
jet tamburri: Those. So those two brothers. in Philadelphia brought me in and said, hey, here's how you do it. This is a machine. Here you go. And then I had all those gangsters coming in and being like, yeah, here you go.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: Give me whatever you want.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, so I see.
Keith: Uh.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So you're largely self-taught.
jet tamburri: ah Yes.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see.
jet tamburri: Yup.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Because cause I was wondering if you were taught by someone, would you feel sort of a moral obligation at least to pass it along occasionally? Whereas if you're self-taught, you're like, hey, I fucking figured it out like this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You figure it out.
jet tamburri: if i if i If I opened up another shop and i somebody came to me, like for instance, that girl, if I had my own shop, I would lay it out on the line for it.
jet tamburri: This is how it's going to work. You can come work for me, but you have to sign this or you have to pay this. So if you want to, you can you don't have to pay. You just have to sign over your time and I'll teach you how to do stuff.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: see.
jet tamburri: And then as long as you're going to stay here, you know what i mean? That's the thing. There's no respect anymore in the industry. Nobody respects anybody or the the art or the craft or none of that stuff. You know what i mean?
jet tamburri: And respect the person that gave you your, you know what i mean? Your, you know.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I see. So, so that's like territorialism or sorry, that's like, sorry, I don't mean that territorialism. What I'm trying to say is that has to do that arrangement has to do with like the business side and making sure I get some value for giving you value.
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
DEFENSE: uh-huh her
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, you know, fair is fair.
jet tamburri: Sure, sure.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Now, is there also territorialism or defensiveness about the designs itself? Like that's my thing. How could you, do you see that going on?
jet tamburri: Well. That is a slippery slope.
Keith: Ha ha ha.
jet tamburri: So everything is put out on the internet, right? If you have this crazy design that you have and you don't want anybody to see it, don't fucking put it online. Don't put it out there where people can see it because then they're going to be like, that's cool.
jet tamburri: I'm going to fucking do that. I mean, everybody does that shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: And nobody's Nobody is just coming up with shit out of their head, right?
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Everything is drawn off of reference. So, you know, you guys may see a table or legs or arms on a chair or whatever. You're like, oh, that's fucking kind of cool. I'm going to implement that into something that I'm doing. Same thing. Oh, look at that wolf over there. That wolf head's kind of cool. I'm going to use that goddamn thing. I mean, I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm just...
jet tamburri: looking at reference and drawing and picking off a reference. And this day and age, everybody just does this. I want this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: You know what I mean? They just come in and have it already picked out. They've already seen it. And it's bit me in the ass multiple times where they say, this is the best one. I love what you do. I love your work.
jet tamburri: Just kind of just do, do your thing, do your thing. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to, yeah, I bet you do.
Keith: ah We get that. ah
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: bet you do.
Keith: I love everything you do.
jet tamburri: You're like,
Keith: Just make me something.
jet tamburri: Yeah, make me...
Keith: right Paul's dealing with that with a sushi board, right?
jet tamburri: Make me a table. And it's like, I've seen all your work. Make me a table. And then you're like, cool. I'm going to make this fucking awesome table that I think is awesome. You make the table and you're like, look at this.
Keith: Yeah, and they hate it
jet tamburri: And they're like, well, I don't know what the fuck that is. I actually wanted this.
Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
jet tamburri: And you're like, well, where the fuck was that picture at?
Keith: Yeah.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: You know what I'm saying?
Keith: m
jet tamburri: So for me, it's the same thing. Like it's bit me in the ass. I've tried to give them what I think is cool. And they're like, no, no, that's, that's cool.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jeff, what do you think is jeff what do you think is cool I'm curious.
DEFENSE: Uh.
jet tamburri: What do I think is cool? I love like just a bunch of black work, girl heads.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
jet tamburri: I like doing like crazy reapers, all kinds of stuff like that. Black and gray, like more on the, not traditional, more artsy, but like neo-traditional.
jet tamburri: I love doing girl heads, love doing those. Um, so, but, but traditional is fun.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Eric.
jet tamburri: I mean, it's cool to do, you know, bold lines, bold color. I mean, it's, if I had to do the same thing every day, it would suck. So doing different stuff, I never understand why people pigeonhole themselves into just doing one thing unless they can't do other things,
DEFENSE: I think that's a big part of it.
jet tamburri: you know, and that,
Keith: Or there's no one there to teach them how to do other things, Jet.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: or
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh Oh, snap!
jet tamburri: ah Oh, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What? What?
jet tamburri: I think I just touched i touched on a bad sore subject around.
Keith: but ah Not for me.
DEFENSE: I feel like I feel like Keith might be asking for an apprenticeship.
Keith: yeah
DEFENSE: I think that's what's happening.
Keith: He's just mad because i don't have any ink.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Let's start with the scorpion.
DEFENSE: ah
Keith: He's like all that white skin, a perfect canvas for me. And he won't let me, he won't let me tattoo him.
jet tamburri: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We're going to start with the red scorpion, Keith.
DEFENSE: That pale Nordic skin.
Keith: ah ha
DEFENSE: but
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that's how we That's how we kick this party off.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm not doing it.
Keith: ah yeah
jet tamburri: ah I'll be like, good luck, Keith. I'll catch you later. I'll come i'll come back when you're done.
Keith: hey I bet the girl at the coffee shop will be happy to help me out.
jet tamburri: I'm going to have a drink. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: Exactly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So, you know, whats what's funny about our conversation already is I had these sort of five points. You know, I asked them ah Google Gemini kind of, so what are some of the philosophical key issues that, you that have to do with territorialism and defensiveness in the arts. And the list it it gave me, there's five main topics. Listen to this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The first topic was the legacy of the guild, that knowledge as a form of currency through medieval times, that it was always kept within the guild. ah To reveal the mystery of how you did something was...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: a way to devalue your own economic worth.
DEFENSE: and's It all hinges on the dollar, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Right?
DEFENSE: It all hinges on money.
Keith: Yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay, so that's the...
jet tamburri: Well, exactly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's right.
jet tamburri: Back then, I mean, Christ, if you were a sword maker, you don't want to tell it teach anybody else to be a sword maker because they can like that person better than you and now you're fucking down the street.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: that's right
DEFENSE: Yeah, I mean, like, the the glassmakers had a very, like, significantly powerful guild for the same fucking reasons, because nobody could do that shit.
jet tamburri: You know what i'm saying?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: but but
Keith: Right.
jet tamburri: Yeah. They lived two years.
DEFENSE: Yeah, well, there's that.
jet tamburri: Super dangerous.
DEFENSE: There's that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
jet tamburri: Oh, God.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: but
jet tamburri: They needed to teach people because that shit is fucking dangerous.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and
DEFENSE: yeah
Keith: Oh, right, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I mean, not that different from some tattoo artist, Jet.
jet tamburri: They're...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Keith: No, right?
jet tamburri: This is fair.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
jet tamburri: This is fair.
Keith: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Live fast, die hard, right?
jet tamburri: This is fair. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: and so But in in modern times, the legacy of the guild, like I see it, Jet, in your non-hobbyist world, but in our hobbyist world, it's been replaced by the information age, where information is free and plentiful.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Case point case in point, Eric and Keith, who run huge channels giving free information, right?
jet tamburri: yeah
DEFENSE: Yeah, we're fucking harlotans. Yeah. yeah
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. All right. this the second The second point is it it said it was about...
Keith: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: the The conflict of small differences, meaning like the closer the closer two fields are or territories are to each other, the more there's a little bit of infighting.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: like If two fields are super far apart, you're not competing for the same turf, basically. But the closer you get together, meaning like two people in the same field or two people in the same you know who are both table makers, the more the territorialism evolves.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, cause you're, you might take my, so proximity, this is a point of proximity. The further people are away, the the easier they can get along, the closer they are to doing the same thing, the more trouble Bruce.
DEFENSE: Well, and I assume that extends like creative proximity, but also physical proximity, right? Like, yeah, like jet Jets worry about finding clients in North Carolina.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes, both. Right. Cause of market share. Sure.
DEFENSE: Like if he has a buddy in Seattle who's tattooing, he's like, I don't, the more more you succeed, the better, you know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's right.
Keith: Right. We're not competing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
jet tamburri: Well, yeah, no.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The third. Oh, go ahead, Jet. Yeah, go ahead.
jet tamburri: um So it's funny because like those two guys, they have those... big channels, right? But all those people that are watching that contribute to those channels, right? If they didn't have all those people watching it and looking and trying to do that shit, they wouldn't be so successful.
jet tamburri: Same thing with us. They can look and try and learn just because you pick up a machine does it or you can draw. doesn't mean that you can tattoo. So even though there are
DEFENSE: Oh, we're gonna we're gonna dissect that.
Keith: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: Even though they're showing people how, like for instance, I clicked on one of his Keith's things today because he sent me a link and I was like, oh, YouTube. And I just fucking clicked it. that crazy ass crazy bent shelf thing.
jet tamburri: I was looking at that thing being like, what?
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: And the fucking spaceship fucking thing was that with all the holes and the, I mean, I was like, it wait, is he, is that the, is that the, is that the frigging, is that the, is that the like cabinet thing?
DEFENSE: laughter
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: so
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: No, that's the fucking jig just to bend the wood.
Keith: Right.
jet tamburri: I'm like, Oh, there's the fucking, there's the wood that he's putting through the planer.
Keith: Wow.
jet tamburri: I'm like, Holy shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh my God, Jed, I love you.
jet tamburri: Like,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. Hmm.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: So that's what I'm saying. Like most people, they don't even have the even a the know-how. B, I was like, how many fucking tools is this guy going to use to build this goddamn fucking thing?
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: So there's like thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools that you need to do a lot of that shit, which most people don't have.
Keith: okay
jet tamburri: You know what i mean?
DEFENSE: Okay, paul Paul, do any of your other points have to do with handmade versus mass produced? Because I don't want to step on it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes, the next one.
DEFENSE: Okay, all right, okay, okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yes, the next one.
jet tamburri: Oh, okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: the third point the The third point is the gift versus the market is what it put it.
jet tamburri: Sorry. I didn't mean to go.
Keith: Aha.
jet tamburri: Okay.
DEFENSE: No, no, no.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And it's like thinking about a gift economy, like small scale, one at a time, maybe not a lot of money's involved. You know, the the sweet sentimentality of giving gifts.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But you could also versus the market, the mass production, the big time, you know, mass, those are very different things. And those carry with them. One carries a defensiveness and one carries sort of an open heart lightness. Now the gift Eric could be pivoted towards like small batch handmade goods. I think would, you know, there's not a huge market there.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I think when they say the market, I think they're talking mass production.
DEFENSE: Yeah, I think they are. I guess I was thinking of it more in like ah a scalability way. So like a table in this in this way, like that's the market, right? Like everybody needs a dining room table. um A tattoo, in jet correct me if I'm wrong, can't be mass produced, right?
DEFENSE: Like there's no, there's nothing...
Keith: Iron on or rub on.
DEFENSE: That's it. Hold on. An iron on tattoo?
Keith: i yeah My bad.
DEFENSE: What the fuck are you doing to your body, buddy?
Keith: Hey, I'm hardcore.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm. ah
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: But but like it's still it's still hand done one at a time. right like It's somebody drawing on your body. um and And so I wonder if maybe that's where part of the defensiveness is. is is just like you What you do with your hands is your work versus, I don't know, like the like if it's if it's produced at scale, you're copying an idea.
DEFENSE: versus showing somebody a craft. Does that make sense?
jet tamburri: Yeah. I mean, so if you're saying mass produce, right? So you guys, if you're doing like small things, you're going to mass produce. I don't know. I'm going to go real tiny, like key chains or some shit.
Keith: Mm.
jet tamburri: ah You make 20 key chains, right?
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Then you're going to sell them. Well, you made all 20 of those. Well, if we do a flash day where you're picking off of a sheet and 10 people pick that same little goddamn thing, I do it 10 times. What the frick is the difference?
Keith: m
jet tamburri: Still mass produce.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: Yes. Yeah. Well, so, so the, the idea is replicable, but the actual doing of the thing, like I, so key changes is is a good example.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: I could drop a file for a CNC on a key chain hit go. And the machine makes all 10 or all 20 or all 50 or a hundred, whatever.
jet tamburri: They're not handmade.
Keith: Hmm.
DEFENSE: They're not, I'm not bandsawing everyone out and rubbing them between my hands until they get nice and smooth.
jet tamburri: know, I'm just joking.
Keith: and
DEFENSE: But like, so you have, you have a flash sale.
jet tamburri: i know i'm just
DEFENSE: You set like, like, like a hundred people come in and they want whatever, a fucking scorpion tattoo.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: And, and, and you, you,
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: Yep. Dicks everywhere.
Keith: Oh my God. Lay them on the table, boys. So we're going to go 10 for it.
jet tamburri: at that.
DEFENSE: but
Keith: It's a BOGO today.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: We're going to need a smaller table.
DEFENSE: but but
Keith: Yeah. Oh.
jet tamburri: No, ah
DEFENSE: but But you still need to to physically draw and tattoo every single one by hand. Like even if the idea is the same.
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: it's a stencil.
Keith: oh
DEFENSE: Tell me more about that. This is where my lack of understanding of the the trade comes in.
jet tamburri: It's a stencil so basically it's already drawn out it could be printed off and all I do is run it through the machine take the stencil put it on your skin and tattoo it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, but you so you have to tattoo it by hand.
DEFENSE: Yeah, but but you still have to go tattoo the thing.
Keith: You still have to do it by hand.
jet tamburri: Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
Keith: Hmm.
DEFENSE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
jet tamburri: Yeah, yes. Yes. Mine is handmade yours is CNC'd.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Yeah, right, right.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
jet tamburri: yeah
DEFENSE: And so like i think I think that is a difference that's important to note.
jet tamburri: Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
DEFENSE: No, you disagree? Push back on me.
Keith: Right.
jet tamburri: No, I mean, I know it's fine.
DEFENSE: Go for it.
jet tamburri: I mean, I just, to me, I'm just like, God, I got to do 12 of these stupid things.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, Jet...
DEFENSE: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: jet Well...
jet tamburri: But then again, Hey, give me the money.
Keith: Well, that...
jet tamburri: I'm fine with it. Right. I guess it comes down to the money.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I...
Keith: Aww.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, I think Eric's thinking about scalability, right?
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: When it's, when it's hand done by a human poking needles into your skin, there is no scalability other than more people in more time. Whereas with, with woodworking, you could buy an army of C and C's and scale up, you know, a thousand fold.
Keith: Well, with the tattoos, I mean, you could you're going to get faster by the 10th one, right?
jet tamburri: yeah
Keith: So you're going to make more money on that 10th one because it took you, I don't know, two minutes versus the three minutes of the first one. But still, like, and overall, it's it compared to woodworking.
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Right.
Keith: It's not even close.
DEFENSE: Like the difference between me CNCing out 10 key chains versus a thousand is a is a difference of like a handful of minutes versus like each by the thousandth time he tattoos a scorpion on somebody's dick, he's going to be 10% faster.
Keith: Yeah.
Keith: Yeah.
Keith: Mm-hmm. Well, not to mention, you can be doing other things while the machine is...
jet tamburri: I'm going to be tired as shit. Yeah, you're going have three shots.
Keith: Yeah, yeah. ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Ha ha ha ha!
jet tamburri: you'll be You'll be four or five shots deep at that ah at the bar down the street while they're all printing out and shit.
Keith: a
DEFENSE: ah
Keith: No, because Eric will be at your shop getting a tattoo while the CNC is working.
DEFENSE: There it is.
Keith: So, spending money while making money.
jet tamburri: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. i look I lose out.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right.
Keith: yeah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So the the the fourth and fifth point is the amateurization of expertise.
DEFENSE: All right, Paul.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jet, you talked about this. You hit this. You're like, everyone thinks they can tattoo now. They just buy the tattoo going off Amazon, watch a couple YouTube videos, and now they think they know how to do it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That is exactly the point number four.
jet tamburri: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And the last point was about originality that – You know, if a master does something and you copy it, is it a new idea? This whole idea of like copying, basically, you know, what's a copy versus what's an original work. So it's funny because we have touched on all five of these points organically in our conversation, which I think is very interesting.
Keith: So I have a question, Jet.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
Keith: like
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, go ahead.
Keith: Sorry, Paul.
jet tamburri: Yeah. yep
Keith: ah Where do you see, like what is the future of tattooing? Meaning, are there going to be machines that can roll over your arm and it will laser engrave a tattoo on there? Or are there new tools coming out that can help you? Or is AI doing anything for, is that making your life more difficult where people come in with renderings that AI created? Like, I can't turn that into a tattoo. like There's no way.
jet tamburri: Actually, the AI drawings, depending on which ones they are, i love them.
Keith: m Okay.
jet tamburri: I'm not going to lie. Like some of them are so perfect because you can tweak it, tweak it, tweak it. And somebody is like, I like this drawing. I'm like, yo, that thing's fucking perfect. and they're like, well, I did it on AI. I'm like, for real.
jet tamburri: So I started messing around with it and shit.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: I'm like, holy shit, this is pretty goddamn good. It depends on how crazy the image is. But some of them, like I know the chat GBT ones, those are like, you know, you could just go in there and talk to it and it prints out ah an image.
Keith: Okay.
jet tamburri: and And some of them are like, I hate to say it, but I wouldn't change a goddamn thing.
Keith: no hey It's like that in the furniture world right now.
jet tamburri: I really wouldn't.
Keith: It's it's the becoming more and more.
jet tamburri: But as far as like... robots or something you can stick your arm in. i don't know that will, I'll be done. I'll be sitting with this guy being like, Hey, you want to teach me how to woodwork?
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: I'll come up to Philly and shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: I'll be done when that shit happens because I'm just, uh, yeah, no, by the time that, because you figure you're going to be reluctant just to be like, okay, I'm gonna let this crazy robot put, you know, do this shit to me and I got to sit still.
jet tamburri: And what if it messes up?
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: Like, Yeah, no, I don't think that that by that time, if that is a thing, I'll be long gone. I'll be long gone. So, but I think, and I think people actually like, it's crazy because which touches on what he was talking about on. And what I said earlier about people not knowing how to tattoo, right?
jet tamburri: It's amazing to me how many people suck, but they're busy. It's because they are good at selling and making you feel like you like you're part of the the part of the gang.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: ah
jet tamburri: You know what i mean? If you're like, hey, super you know responsive and texting them and posting about them and thanking them online and they're like, yeah, that dude's my fucking best friend.
jet tamburri: No, he's not. He's just fucking good. it's He's selling you. he's He's a good car salesman, right? He can sell anything.
Keith: Mm. Mm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: hmm
DEFENSE: Listen, buddy, as somebody who's made a career off of sucking, but being likable, that's, you know?
jet tamburri: So
Keith: Mm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: hmm hmm
jet tamburri: Yeah, it's crazy. And I mean, and then on the flip side of all that, the amount of people that have no clue what a good tattoo looks like is amazing to me.
DEFENSE: Mmm...
jet tamburri: Amazing. When I look at shit, I'm looking at different things, same way you guys probably are. I'm picking that thing apart from all different angles. People don't see that shit. They can't. They can't walk into when you guys walk in and see a piece of furniture, you're like, oh, look at that.
jet tamburri: Oh, God. All right. But when but if I walked in, I'd be like, that thing's cool as shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
jet tamburri: And then you guys are like,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
DEFENSE: Well, so so what are some of the things you're looking at?
jet tamburri: I guess.
Keith: but
DEFENSE: Like, this is interesting. What are the things that distinguish a good tattoo from a bad tattoo, in your opinion?
jet tamburri: So, and as an apprentice, no matter how you start, line work.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Good, solid, consistent line work is the key because you can reshade, you can recolor for the most part.
DEFENSE: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: but if But if you're drawing a nose and you're like, whoo, well, there fucked, that's gone.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
Keith: no You got another arm I can borrow?
jet tamburri: People, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Keith: Mm.
jet tamburri: And people think that lettering, right? Lettering is super easy. Well, not really because you only have one fucking shot at it. Whoop, whoop, whoop. If you fucking whoopity whoop, you're fucked.
Keith: ah Spell mom with two O's.
jet tamburri: You know what I mean so
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, Jet.
jet tamburri: So, yeah.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: Oh, dude, it happens. It fucking happens, you know?
Keith: yeah
DEFENSE: love Moom.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: jet os fitt ah Oh, Jet, that's fantastic.
DEFENSE: I love Moom.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith: him oh
jet tamburri: It's just crazy. So, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's just, this world, i'm I'm over it, honestly. I'm fucking over it. I really am.
DEFENSE: yeah
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: I am. I can't stand people. People are so like, they just, when when you used to walk into a tattoo shop back in the day, you didn't walk in and say, i need this and I want, and oh, it's that much?
DEFENSE: Bye.
jet tamburri: Fuck that. You would have gotten punched square in your mouth.
Keith: Oh. Oh.
jet tamburri: Now people come in and they're just like, fuck you.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
jet tamburri: I'm going to tell you how it is. And I'm like, This ain't fucking Walmart. Like you can't, we're not rolling back.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jen!
jet tamburri: Like this ain't Target.
Keith: and wrong
jet tamburri: We're not rolling back prices. No, there's no, there's no, there's no HR in here.
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: There's no HR.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: I can, I don't have to do shit.
Keith: It's no complaint department. It's on the scorpion.
jet tamburri: Yeah. There's none. It's, it's right here.
Keith: Hmm.
jet tamburri: You know, go fuck yourself.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
jet tamburri: Get the fuck out of here. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jet, how often do you get customers like that?
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: All the time. But the thing, not every day.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: no every day?
Keith: rear
jet tamburri: Most people are pretty nice there, but we get a ton of them.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: oh oh Okay.
jet tamburri: The problem is, is that now everybody lives on social media and now they can leave bad reviews and they gave it like, he was a fucking asshole to me.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
jet tamburri: I had a guy, he came in, he called me, he told me that he wanted this crazy ass design. I drew it up. And then the day of when I confirmed him, he said, you know what? I think I want something completely different. And I was like,
jet tamburri: Well, guess what? i don't know what the fuck could tell you because we got to have another appointment.
Keith: Your pain.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: I can't draw that. and he's like, what the fuck? I took off today. And I'm like, I don't make money if I don't, if I don't go to work. I'm like, yeah, dickhead, either do
Keith: And neither do I.
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: Yeah. I don't make money because now you just changed it It's like, you know, I want this fucking table with three legs.
DEFENSE: Hmm. Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: You know what? While you're almost done there, can you put four legs on it?
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: Fuck the three. I, you know I mean It's not going work.
Keith: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jed, do you have to get a deposit before the drawing stage?
jet tamburri: Like,
jet tamburri: Yes, I definitely, yes, you should definitely get a deposit. I should take more to more of a deposit sometimes because, you know, if I get a hundred hours on a $500 tattoo, I'd, I'd rather do the $500, not just take the hundred, you know what i mean?
jet tamburri: But cause it's, it's hard to like book somebody and half the time I'm like, don't even call anybody.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: I'm like, well, looks like I'm going to get another coffee and draw and just dick around do whatever, you know?
Keith: Uh...
DEFENSE: Mmm.
Keith: but
jet tamburri: So yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: How many tattoos do you typically do a day?
jet tamburri: Normally two, two to three. So my schedule is pretty, it nowadays with Christmas coming up, people reschedule or, you know, people, I've got something going on, work, this. So it's always moving around and stuff like that.
jet tamburri: So it definitely changes.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: in art And are there days where you're just not feeling it? Like, I don't feel like sitting here drawing.
jet tamburri: I don't, um' I'm at that. I think I've just been doing it so long. i'm just like so fed up, you know?
DEFENSE: Yeah, sounds like he's been there for a few years, dog.
jet tamburri: ah Yeah, it's just like, I just don't know. But then i feel, I tell everybody, I'm like, I'm like a stripper. Like I can't get off the pole and make too much goddamn money.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: i yeah ah
jet tamburri: What am I going to do? I'm going to go get a regular job and I'm...
DEFENSE: God, there are so many t-shirts from this episode.
jet tamburri: yeah
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I can't get off the pole.
DEFENSE: There's that I can't get off the pole.
jet tamburri: ah
DEFENSE: There's no HR department here. Dick Scorpions.
jet tamburri: Yeah, I can't like you could go get a regular job, but you're going to like this fucking sucks.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That was amazing.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: You got to show up on time.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: You got to punch a clock. You got to listen to some some boss who may have had a bad day or his wife gave him shit. He's taking it out on you. It's just like, fuck this shit. I'm going back to dancing.
jet tamburri: and Fuck this shit.
Keith: Yeah.
jet tamburri: I'm just going to go. ah
jet tamburri: I'm going to go have a drink and just scream at somebody when they treat me like shit.
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: ah
jet tamburri: It's great. i don't have to worry about it you know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, it's been so funny.
Keith: uh
jet tamburri: but
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, Eric, Eric, dude, tattoo artists are an untapped reservoir of humor, dude.
jet tamburri: Yeah, I just, don't know. Mm-hmm. yeah
Keith: ah
DEFENSE: Honest to Christ, man. Honest. Oh, man.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: all right. So, Jet, last question. What would you say to, you know, in the in the in the hobbyist community online and Instagram with woodworking, there is this sort of Buddhist sentiment applied to us, which like open and sharing like a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.
jet tamburri: who
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like what what do you what's your interpretation of that sentiment from your perspective in the tattoo world?
jet tamburri: I mean, I'm with it. I agree. Like you should definitely share with people, right? Share your knowledge, but you just have to do it with, you know, you gotta be careful on what you share.
jet tamburri: And, um, you know, I don't know.
Keith: And find the right person to share it with, too, right?
jet tamburri: I, I, Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's people out there that, you know, that are, that are actually really cool and actually deserve to be in this industry.
jet tamburri: And I don't mind giving them tips and stuff like that, because even if I tell you how to do something, ah yeah it's going to take you forever to get to where, well, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, no one's going to be you, Jet, right? That's the point. It's like, even if they copy one design, let's say they copy one design you did, or you give them some tips, they're not going to be you.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: they They don't see the world like you. They'll never know your next design. Your next design is only achievable by you and no one else.
jet tamburri: Sure. And more so techniques is what I was saying.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: So there's that. Hmm.
jet tamburri: Like if trying to teach somebody techniques, because if you teach them the techniques, then they can do whatever. you know what I mean? If you teach them how to shade good, then they can take that and do other stuff with it.
Keith: Mm
jet tamburri: If you teach them how to do good, solid lines off the bat, then that's a, you know, something that they can take with them and, and, and, you know, use it down the road as far. it But, um, but even, you know, if I tell, if I tell somebody, Hey, you should do this, you should do this.
jet tamburri: And then they just take it and they're like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then they do it and it's like, holy shit, good for you. You should be tattooing, you know what I mean? Because you picked it up that quick, you're going to have a good you know good career.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: so But the most people, they're not going to be able to do that shit. Yeah. like
DEFENSE: can i Can I also just say, Paul, I know i know where you're coming from with this statement of like, we kind of have this Buddhist ideology of like share knowledge, a candle doesn't lose anything, etc.
DEFENSE: That's not been my experience in cabinet shops. Like, I think that is strictly in the online hobbyist space and and specifically about finishing techniques.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hobbyists.
DEFENSE: And this is still a thing that exists even in the YouTube community. Like, there's not a lot of finishers putting their shit on YouTube for some reason. Every cabinet shop I've ever worked in.
Keith: Because they're half brain dead from all the fumes.
DEFENSE: Well, I mean, don't get me wrong. They are, they are fucked out of their mind.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Keith!
Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DEFENSE: 98% of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: For sure.
Keith: ah yeah
DEFENSE: That Xylene goes straight up the nostrils. But, but every cabinet shop I've ever worked in.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: um and And I'd be curious to hear from the listeners if other people have different experiences. You can come through the shop like somebody, another business owner comes in, another cabinet maker comes in, a client comes in, whatever it is. You can come through the shop. You can see how shit's getting built. You can see all of the joinery being done, all of the surfaces being prepped. But the finishing room has always been off limits because whatever happens in that kind of black box of chemistry, the finishers are always the guys who make the magic happens.
DEFENSE: Um, and, and so for whatever reason, that's always like, if a piece is done, done, you're allowed to see it. If it's before finishing, you're allowed to see it.
DEFENSE: If it's in the process of finishing, nobody sees it outside of the shop.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: What? Really?
DEFENSE: Yeah, and and I think it, I mean, listen, it's been 10 years since I've worked full time in a cabinet shop.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Even today?
DEFENSE: But even in the last cabinet shop, I was working in part time while I was starting the YouTube channel.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
DEFENSE: That was true. Like we would get pieces in from Nakashima, from like from the museums.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
DEFENSE: We would refinish art carpenter pieces. We would refinish Judy McKee pieces. And that would get a towel thrown over it when people came into the shop. because it was in process of the fit, because that's kind of where that magic happens.
DEFENSE: So I think, again, coming back to the money aspect, as soon as money enters the equation, that changes the way that people feel about sharing information.
Keith: Hmm.
Keith: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I guess we've been, I've been in a bubble, honestly. I've only known the Instagram sort of hobbyist community and I haven't really seen much of this this professional money world.
Keith: Hmm.
jet tamburri: you
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: In fact, my experience has been when anyone asks me for information, just share it. Why? Because whatever, they're not going look, I don't make a living, right?
DEFENSE: Yeah, because you don't have five to six figures riding on that information, right?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't make a living.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That's right.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I don't. I have a job separate from that. And even if I tell them how I do something, the level of complexity and the number of steps in my current pieces is prohibitive for 99% of those people. They're not going to do it. Anyway, so even if you do share it, ah them making the same piece would be very difficult.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And if they were capable of making the same piece, they probably wouldn't even be asking me for that information because they probably already have it figured out. Right. You know what mean? So there's like safety and complexity. have a job, so I'm never i never feel threatened about money.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Money is not part of it. And it's just like this sort of like Kumbaya, you know, like Internet, ah you know, Instagram life.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And very open and it's very warm and sharing and welcoming. And yeah, I had not understood or predicted that this conversation today would go the way it has.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: But I feel like I've learned, I've seen a whole new view today by talking to Jet.
Keith: Mm-hmm.
DEFENSE: Yeah, i mean, nobody saw dick scorpions coming.
Keith: Ha ha ha ha
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And no.
DEFENSE: Well...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
Keith: ahha ah
jet tamburri: Oh, God, yeah. i didn't yeah i I didn't want to see it either. That's why I didn't fuck with it.
Keith: ah
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: yeah
jet tamburri: Yeah, that shit's crazy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, well, um let me let me ask one last question before we wrap up.
DEFENSE: well
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Have you ever been copied, like copied, copied? Jet, have you seen any of your designs like totally ripped off?
jet tamburri: Um, not necessarily nowadays people are, uh, they're, they're, um, making fake profiles so that they can, um, take deposits and stuff like that.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, I see. i So they they use your art to make a fake thing and then take fake deposits?
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Keith: oh
jet tamburri: They make a, yeah, they make a fake Instagram.
Keith: Oh. Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: Yeah. I've had people send me, Oh, look at this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay.
jet tamburri: This isn't, this isn't you. You need this.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Wow.
jet tamburri: You need to, you know, delete this or, you know, report it.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Okay. Okay.
jet tamburri: So yeah, people.
DEFENSE: No shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, that's too bad. And, and Eric, have you had have you had a piece you copied verbatim? Or more like inspiration?
DEFENSE: Um, yes, I've had people copy me. But most of the time, they've been people who have been like, hey, would you mind if I copied this? And I'm always willing to let them do that.
DEFENSE: Because that's the only way that you learn is by copying people that you look up to.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And you have a whole new income stream with YouTube, right? You're not, know, it's very different, I suppose.
DEFENSE: Yeah, but even if that wasn't the case, much of my work, or at least the pieces that stand out in my portfolio, a lot of those techniques are done by hand.
DEFENSE: And so coming back to like the technique perspective of it, even if you try to copy it, your hand's going to work differently than mine does.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
DEFENSE: So by all means, try to copy because by the time you're finished with it, it's not going to look like one of my pieces.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And Keith, have you had?
Keith: Yeah, the same. Because some of the things I build, I make plans for so people can build them. But I've also seen other people you know inspired by, i built this piece with only one drawer instead of two, but like straight up ripped off and started selling for profit? No.
Keith: And ah you can...
DEFENSE: Hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Keith: but Anything that I put, I put the stuff out there on YouTube for people to look at, absorb, build if you want, give it a try.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Hmm.
Keith: um But, you know, because I'm certainly not gatekeeping my designs because that's the whole purpose is showing people like the process of how I build, how I design.
Keith: And then what the end product is. So if you want to try to rip that off and realize this is going to take me six weeks to make one of these and try to profit off it, go right ahead.
Keith: But if, you know, if I, if I had a specific piece of furniture, like a line of furniture where I had a bedroom set, there was all, you know, in the same vein, the same design that I sold and someone ripped that design straight off and started selling it.
Keith: Yeah. Then there would be a problem, but no one has.
DEFENSE: Well, ah like like Jet said, if you don't want people to copy, you don't put that shit on the internet.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You know, at a 10,000 foot,
Keith: Yeah, yeah. I guess i guess you figure some people have morals, but I guess they don't.
jet tamburri: Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say
DEFENSE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
jet tamburri: Yeah, it's it's double-edged sword.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: well at ten thousand foot
Keith: Yeah.
DEFENSE: yeah
Keith: Mm-hmm.
jet tamburri: you know?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: At a 10,000 foot view, I guess one of the the notes I had written down for today's episode is, are you in an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: That tends to be one of the ways we kind of a framework for considering how much we share or don't share. Now, I think this is heavily influenced by money now, right? i I was just thinking from a hobbyist point of view, abundance versus a scarcity mindset.
Keith: Mm
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: You say, well, what's what are those? An abundance mindset being like, oh, I have no shortage of ideas. If you wanna copy my idea, you go ahead because I'm already five ideas down the road. I could give a shit that you copy a design from like you know five years ago.
Keith: hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: you You knock yourself out. Like that has no nothing on me. Or the abundance mindset could be, oh, there's so many customers out there.
DEFENSE: Thank you.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Like, go ahead, make something and, you know, sell it. Even if it's similar to mine, you go ahead. There's more than enough for all of us. Like there's enough meat on that bone for all of us. That's the abundance mindset.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: The scarcity mindset is like, There's not enough. I'm trying to survive here. If you take you know if you copy my technique or copy my design, you're going to take my customers. And I haven't had a lot of new, you know i i don't have a lot of great ideas come to me all the time. So I have to kind of put a wall around what I do have because I got to fucking make this work.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And i don't mean i don't mean to color it as like one's good and one's bad because it kind of came off that way. But I know. But I do – that is a very interesting framework for thinking about this. I think the abundance versus the scarcity. But it's heavily dependent on now I see like – hobbyism or like hobbyists versus professionals and money.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Is this your full-time thing or is this just for fun? It's so much easier to have an abundance mindset when you're not, your family's not surviving on this, right?
DEFENSE: Yeah, when it doesn't cost you anything to lose.
jet tamburri: Yeah, exactly.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
jet tamburri: That's where I want to be. I want to get into something so that this is more, it's fun again. And I don't really care. It's like, but then I'll get, yeah, we're in a weird time with tattooing right now.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Anybody you ever talk to is definitely not as, I don't know what is going on. And I don't, it could be with everything going on in the world. People don't want to spend a lot of money these days. They're trying to hold onto it. Things are super expensive.
jet tamburri: You know, it's just been real weird and times have been different for people. So
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Jet, I don't know anything about the tattoo market. Is it down now compared to what it used to be?
jet tamburri: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Mm-hmm.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Really?
jet tamburri: It is.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: And and just just just what percent of, if you just pull 10 people off the street, right, random, how many have a tattoo?
jet tamburri: Oh, I mean, the majority of people have tattoos these days. The people that I feel, the people that don't have tattoos are the oddballs now.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah?
DEFENSE: the
jet tamburri: No offense.
Keith: Hey!
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Keith, Keith, you and I are oddballs, baby.
Keith: Yes!
jet tamburri: No offense. Ha ha.
DEFENSE: Well, we knew that. That has nothing to do with the tattoos.
jet tamburri: yeah
Keith: yes
DEFENSE: We knew that already.
jet tamburri: I just think that the amount of people that don't have tattoos to the amount of people that have tattoos have flopped now.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
jet tamburri: You know what i mean? Back in the day, it was different.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: hmm
jet tamburri: Now it's flopped where most people have a tattoo, you know, so. But it's just, yeah, I don't know. The industry is weird right now. It's everybody is always complaining about being slow and not that busy, you know, so it's interesting.
DEFENSE: Hmm.
Keith: Do you think part of that is there's a lot more tattoo artists?
jet tamburri: It could be, yeah. And that's you know in Florida, right? Florida is a place where they're on every corner, everywhere. And so generally Florida is not a good place to work.
Keith: Hmm.
jet tamburri: Arizona was the same way.
Keith: Hmm.
jet tamburri: They were everywhere. When I first moved here, it was great because there was only a handful of shops.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Really?
jet tamburri: Now, there I mean, it's just shop after shop after shop after shop and private studio after private studio.
DEFENSE: Oh
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh, it's saturated.
jet tamburri: It's, yeah, way too saturated. So for me, I've been looking into this as like still doing it, but more on the not as a full-time thing.
jet tamburri: You know what i mean? Full-time in a way.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
jet tamburri: I've got plans for things. I'm just trying to make them all come um true. So we'll see what happens.
Keith: You're going to gatekeep that for now.
jet tamburri: But yeah, yeah.
DEFENSE: ah yeah
Keith: ah
jet tamburri: But it's just, yeah, it's crazy.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, y'all. Well, go ahead. Yeah.
jet tamburri: No, it's just...
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Well, yeah, I feel like we've had a any, any, any other lingering points anyone has no.
jet tamburri: the
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: I think that was a strong fight.
Keith: No.
DEFENSE: That was really interesting to hear like your experience in that field and how it shifted over time.
Keith: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah.
DEFENSE: And the like I coming back to the conversation about like guilds and whatnot, like it's I think we come from a tradition that has been formalized in a way that tattooing has not.
DEFENSE: And that's been really interesting to hear how you've navigated that because of that lack of formality.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: So thanks for sharing that, man.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Yeah, Jed, Jed, it seemed like the Wild Wild West, what you described compared to woodworking.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
DEFENSE: That's super, super interesting, at least to me.
jet tamburri: yeah
Keith: Mmm.
jet tamburri: It definitely is exactly like the wild, wild west. It's crazy. I mean, and just it's funny because different places and different towns and and different mindsets, like, you know, a lot of there's, but still when people have a shop and they are, you know, living off that and making money off that, they get a little bit like they don't want to teach things because they don't want somebody to open up right next to them and take away from what they have.
DEFENSE: All
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I get it.
jet tamburri: You know what mean?
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: I get it. and and you And if what you said is true about it, like especially recently, incomes going down and it being saturated, that's even more of an issue, right?
jet tamburri: So.
jet tamburri: Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, so.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All
DEFENSE: right. What I want to know in the after show for the folks who are coming up is the worst tattoo you've ever given chat, but save, save it, save it. That's that after show shit.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: right.
Keith: fair
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right.
jet tamburri: Okay.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: To get the after show, all you have to do is subscribe to our Patreon. You can find it in the liner notes. Plus, it would support us. We'd appreciate that. And Jet, thank you.
DEFENSE: Yeah.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Thank you for being on today's show.
DEFENSE: Thank you, brother.
jet tamburri: Yeah, man. Thanks for having me, man. It's good.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: How how can
jet tamburri: It's interesting. Your side is is interesting.
DEFENSE: of
jet tamburri: Just listening to all that stuff.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: how can people find you if they want ah more about your tats to see your tattoos and
jet tamburri: ah So you can, so Instagram is triad tattoos and then it's triad tattoos.com.
Keith: A tattoo?
jet tamburri: have a website as well. And you can just kind of go on there and reach, reach me by email or DM. However, i pretty good at
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Oh i i hope you get i hope you get someone from this episode, especially someone who's like, I want this.
DEFENSE: yeah
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: at.
Keith: sir Use coupon code SCORPIONDICK for 10% off.
jet tamburri: Well, like I said, they, they,
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All
DEFENSE: Yep. yeah
Keith: of the experience.
jet tamburri: They, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Keith: See ya.
jet tamburri: They can't be upset when I yell at them.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: all right, y'all.
jet tamburri: I told them this straight out.
Keith: yeah
jet tamburri: If they come at me with some bullshit, they're going to get bullshit right back.
Keith: yeah yeah
jet tamburri: So that's fine. That's totally fine.
Keith: hu
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: Note, you've been warned, listeners.
jet tamburri: Yeah.
Keith: as part of the experience yeah
jet tamburri: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DEFENSE: Oh, fucking amazing.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: All right, y'all. let'll We'll see you in the after show.
DEFENSE: All right, friends. Bye.
Woodworking is Bullsh*t: right. Bye, everyone.
