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169 - Carrie (2013)
87 Plays10 months ago
"You know the devil never dies. Keeps coming back. But you gotta keep killing him. Over and over again.”
It’s time for our January miniseries The Kingening: The Drawing of Three, on some of the failed franchise starters adapted from the works of Stephen King, to come to a close... but first, PROM! We’re putting on our tuxes, straightening our ties, and heading back to high school to talk about the most recent adaptation of King’s first novel! Along the way, we stop to talk about how this film stacks up against other films in the Carrie franchise, the abject horror of religious fundamentalism, the cast and their performances, and the oeuvre of Michael Mann! Join us before the bucket of pig’s blood falls!
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- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including our upcoming episode on The Rage: Carrie 2 at: https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
- Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website or buy/rent it through Amazon Prime!
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme of Failed Franchises
00:00:20
Speaker
I'll say good for you.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey, and welcome to the disenfranchised podcast for that podcast. All about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves, full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. And we are closing out tonight, our three-part miniseries, The Kingening, the drawing of three. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy, and joining me as always, the man who can see your dirty pillows, but then everyone can. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker.
00:00:52
Speaker
Hi Steven, how's it going? It's going all right, man. It's going all right. That's cool. How are you? You know I'm all right. Yeah, right on. Yeah, it's a
Co-Host Brett's Absence
00:01:05
Speaker
Monday night. We got an episode dropping in a few days, and we're just going to chill out and record it for a little bit. It's just going to be you and me, though, because I got a text from Brett a little. I don't know if you got this text from Brett a little while ago. He's stuck in a high school gymnasium, and there's a fire. I don't really know what's going on, but I hope he's OK.
00:01:22
Speaker
It sounded pretty dire, but I hope he's okay. We wish him a speedy return But yeah, this is the third week in a row Tucker where you and I have sat down because Brett has we did a whole month of horror shit and just Brett has just not been here which is
00:01:41
Speaker
Weird. That's a damn shame. That's usually the way we can get him in the door. We're like, hey, Brett, horror stuff. And he's like, I'm there. Son of a bitch. I'm in. And he's like, fuck you. No, he didn't actually say that. He does wish he is here. I'll tell you what, though, guys, just between between us, between because we're family. If you're listening, your family like Olive Garden. Kind of. Yeah. Except, you know, with with less shitty Italian food.
00:02:08
Speaker
Um shitty Italian food. I know right? Even even when it's shitty, it's still kind of good. Um, it's real good. It's it is um
00:02:19
Speaker
If you want to hear Brett this month talking about something Stephen King adjacent, you need to be on Patreon because this month on Patreon, we are covering, and I think this will drop Sunday, this upcoming Sunday. If I remember to do it. If you remember to do it, you sure didn't remember last week's, what are we watching? Hopefully it's been posted by the time this drops. Hopefully this episode drops on time. Fuck, dude. Oh, gosh.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yes, it's anarchy. Everything's just thrown into a tizzy.
Promotion of Patreon Content
00:02:53
Speaker
But sign up for the Patreon, patreon.com slash disenfranch pod. We are covering the Rage Carry 2 for Unenfranchised this month. And Brett joined us for that conversation. So we did get a chance to talk to Brett this month. You get to hear all his wonderful thoughts on the movie that we're well, on the franchise, the remake of which we're discussing on today's
Discussion of 'Carrie' 2013 Remake
00:03:16
Speaker
episode. Tucker, what movie are we covering to close out our Kingening drawing of three miniseries?
00:03:23
Speaker
You know, I almost said the Rage Carry too.
00:03:26
Speaker
I always said it. That's behind the paywall, dude. That's behind the paywall. It's just still sitting here on my desk. I was just looking at it. I was like, man, I wish I was watching that movie right. I did. I did the same thing when we recorded the rage episode. I said, like, that's a swan thing. And it was because there wasn't I was looking at IMDB and there was an ad for the the new season of Feud Capote versus the swans, which I'm very excited to watch. Yeah. And so I said, it's a swan. I was like, no, it's not. It's not that it's another thing. And I had to correct myself. But that's why I did that.
00:03:55
Speaker
We are covering 2013's remake? Reinterpretation?
00:04:04
Speaker
of the source material depends on who you ask. 2013's Carrie. We are covering 2013's Carrie, directed by Kimberly Pearson, starring Chloe Grace Moretz, Julianne Moore, Judy Greer, Gabriella Wilde, Portia Doubleday, Alex Russell, Ansel Elgort, and motherfucking Barry Shabaka Henley. We stand a motherfucking legend. What a cast, Tucker. What a picture.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, dude, it's a really good cast. It is a really good cast. Even the actors I don't particularly like, like the dude that plays Johnny Tommy, who's the Ansel Elgort? Yes, like I don't particularly. Turns out he's allegedly a piece of shit, so I don't have. Well, I mean, I can allegedly kiss my entire asshole, but I don't.
00:04:59
Speaker
I don't know anything about him, I just don't normally like the movies he's in. I liked him in the Edgar Wright movie, he was really good. Baby Driver, he's good. Spielberg's West Side Story, he's phenomenal in. Oh I didn't see that. In a very similar vein to what he's doing here, honestly.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, well, maybe I just don't like that movie he made where he like he likes the sick girl. Remember all those sick girl movies? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Which one was that? Was that me and all in the dying girl or you know what he might have been? Let's let's fucking do an Ansel Elgort sidebar. God help us all.
00:05:37
Speaker
Let's let's fucking do that, I guess. I don't know what we're doing. The Fault in Our Stars he was in. He was in the. That's the John Green one. Yeah, that is. He's in the Divergent series. Yeah, he sure fucking is. He sure fucking is. God, what else? Paper towns, he also was in paper towns. Good God.
00:06:00
Speaker
This is his first movie, his first on screen role in Point
Adaptability and Relevance of 'Carrie'
00:06:05
Speaker
Effect is 2013's Carrie. Really? Yes. He's also in Jason Reitman's Men, Women and Children. Paper towns. He's actually better than I was just like, motherfucker, why is he charming? Right. He's great. Oh, just like motherfucker. Both him and the girl that plays Sue Snell, they're really good at like
00:06:28
Speaker
kind of expressing how complicated these two characters are because they're not bad people.
00:06:37
Speaker
But, you know, they're kids. So sometimes they do shitty things, but at least they have like the hindsight to be like, oh, that was shitty. Right. Which I think the way they portray that is very like in the original, it was kind of ambiguous until the end. Even when you see private moments between the two, you're still not sure. You're like, are they fucking with her though? Right. And I think that's intentional on the Palmas in the original. But yeah, in this one, they're definitely like and I think that's
00:07:05
Speaker
Part of that is also the other adaptations of Carrie, though, and I've watched every cinematic or stage adaptation of Carrie over the course of the past three days, so I've been like eating and sleeping Carrie. It's something that gets, like, Sue's motives get clearer in every subsequent adaptation. Now, I've not read the source material, so I don't know if that's
00:07:33
Speaker
baked into King's novel at all or if that's just something that's just become clear over the course of the over the course of the telling I don't know but like I think it's pretty clear
00:07:46
Speaker
in the musical in particular, the 1998 stage, 1988, excuse me, stage musical. I think it's fairly clear there. And then I think the 2002 version also does I think casting Candace McClure there gives you a kind of a real sense of her vulnerability and authenticity, which is something that Candace McClure plays really well.
00:08:08
Speaker
And she would go on to do that in Battlestar Galactica also. But I think it just becomes, I think, progressively more obvious and more baked into the thing as as these adaptations go. Agreed. Agreed. And Tommy becomes more his own agent than in this one, then just kind of a guy who's going along with it. Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
Which I think is I think that part of that is in King's novel as well from what I've read like Tommy begins to see Carrie as a friend, because he actually takes the time to get to know her versus here where we're just kind of or versus like the original where you don't really know what his motives are, although he seems like a genuinely nice dude.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. Well, like in this one, you can you can really see that he's he's starting to, you know, enjoy his time with her and they're becoming pals and stuff. Yeah. I think that's that's very clear in this one. And I think it's the performance kind of rests on that. And I think both of those actors really. They play it well. They sell it. They really do. I believe it. I believe it.
00:09:23
Speaker
Now, I'm glad it doesn't go as far as the stage musical, which they like Tommy and Carrie end up in love by the end of it, which is really weird. They don't end up together, obviously, because everything plays out the way that it does in every other adaptation. But like.
Casting and Performance Analysis
00:09:40
Speaker
Tommy starts to fall in love with Carrie as they're dancing, and Sue's standing on the sidelines screaming, why? Why did I set this up? Is he falling in love with her? What did I do? That's a whole brief little section of the musical, at least in the 88 version. I didn't see the 2012 revival of it.
00:09:59
Speaker
You see kind of a hint of that in here because the gym teacher lady thinks that's why Sue Stell is there. Right. Yeah. And that's why she kicks her out. And she's like, no, dude, like, no, it's just like, doesn't matter. I agree.
00:10:15
Speaker
That's part of the love to agree. She's great in this to be Tdubs. No, Judy Greer is always excellent. No, we stand Judy Greer 100 percent. But she does this. Benny Buckley does that in the original film as well, like kind of shoves Sue out once he's trying to stop. Sue sees Amy Irving looks up and sees
00:10:34
Speaker
Chris and Billy and Nancy Allen and John Travolta on the bucket of blood and tries to like stop and like you see Betty Buckley like pulling her back and like keeping it from from going forward there. And I like how much more sinister the bad kids are in this one. Like when they're up in those rafters and dudes is like dude is like, you know, this is a straight up felony. That's fucking good, dude. That's also in
00:11:01
Speaker
the 2002 version, which leads me to believe it's probably in the book. Like John Travolta is just kind of a doofus in the original. Yeah, they're all just kind of like idiots.
00:11:12
Speaker
I mean, is it malicious? Yes, but they don't seem like they're just like, they don't like rabid. I get the impression that no one in the cast knew what movie they were making in 1976. Yeah. Like Piper Laurie thought the whole thing was a dark comedy. And she's like, why else would I be playing it so over the top? Like that's that's got to be what you're going for. Right. And then Nancy Allen said she thought that her and Travolta were just playing like the the idiotic comic relief. Like and then she saw the movie like, oh, no, we're evil.
00:11:39
Speaker
Oh, that's that's what's happening here. Okay. Nancy Allen, who would go on to marry Brian De Palma. That's the thing that happened. Yeah. So yeah, Brian De Palma, who is a creepy weird dude, but I don't think he's ever done anything like wrong, like as far as I know, but he named his daughter Lolita. So
00:12:03
Speaker
But a friend friend to this director, they are friends, they're close friends. Oh, right on. The director of this film and Brian De Palma, director of this film, of course, Kimberly Pierce, I'm familiar with because she directed Boys Don't Cry. And that was ironically, given the title, one of the first movies that really made me just like ball my eyes out.
00:12:28
Speaker
Interesting. I was like maybe 17 when I saw that and I was like, what the fuck? Have you seen that movie, Steven? I have not.
Stephen King's Works and Adaptations
00:12:35
Speaker
I've not seen that or stop loss or other her other film that she made. You should see Boys Don't Cry, but it's really it's really upsetting. So be prepared for that. I mean, I figured. Yeah. But it's it's a wonderful movie and you need to see it. It's kind of wild to me that she didn't get like a blank check after Boys Don't Cry because it's usually because that was a big deal. Yeah.
00:12:58
Speaker
Like it was an indie film and it made a shit ton of money and word of mouth on that was everywhere. Right. And then she didn't make another film until 2008 and then didn't make another film after that until this movie and then hasn't made a film in the last 10 years. Well, which I mean, has she has she gone to TV? Like, I guess that's kind of my my question then, because
00:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, it looks like she's been doing a lot of TV. She's done just kind of episodes since this. She's done episodes of Manhattan, American Crime, Game of Silence, Halt and Catch Fire, I Love Dick, Six, Dear White People, Kidding, and P-Valley. Oh, kidding. That's a really good show. It's that Jim Carrey show, right? I want to rewatch that. I need to watch. I want to do good things about Halt and Catch Fire.
00:13:57
Speaker
I don't know anything about that. But then following Boys Don't Cry, she directed an episode of The L Word in 2006. So really nothing between 99 and 2006 either. And I'm sure she had some projects in development, but the fact that she can't take the success of Boys Don't Cry and parlay that into something bigger is honestly an indictment of Hollywood and their treatment of female directors, quite frankly. Yeah, I would agree with that.
00:14:25
Speaker
Because this thing is actually, I think it's well-directed. Like, there was a lot that I liked about this movie. I'm just gonna put my cards on the table. I enjoyed this. I had fun with this one. Is it a perfect film? No, but I had a good time. This one, for me, it's weird because
00:14:50
Speaker
every scene in this film, I either love or hate like there's nothing in between. And for me, it's almost like the tale of two films, because there is an original interpretation and adaptation of the source material.
00:15:11
Speaker
that is always fantastic whenever they're doing something I've never seen before or doing a scene in a slightly different way, that really stands out to me. But then the other film that's in here is the just straight up remake, Beat 4 Beat of Carrie. And it's almost like they're, you know, checkered in there, like one after another, because you have a really great scene and the next one you'll be like,
00:15:41
Speaker
What the what the fuck? I've seen this done better somewhere else. Yeah. When they're doing something interesting with it, it's one of the best movies I've ever seen, especially from around that time. Right. And there's some missed opportunities. There are some missed opportunities in there as well, like the cyberbullying angle that doesn't ever really get touched on so much as just to kind of gloss over like this is how kids bully now and then we move on.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. So another problem I have with this movie, I do like this movie. I promise I do. But look, we can watch a movie and still have complaints about it. That's that I have nitpicks because I've seen it a bunch of times. That's what it means to think critically about film is to be able to enjoy something despite having issues.
00:16:24
Speaker
The problem with the parts that are a straight up like damn near shot for shot remake of the original film is that they don't feel like a modern film. And that even extends to like Carrie and her house and everything about her and her mother, even their car. It's almost like the Brady Bunch movie.
00:16:48
Speaker
where like they're from the 70s but they're somehow been plopped into modern times. What I think that's how this they're trying to convey the religious fundamentalism of it because I mean if you look at a lot of like
00:17:06
Speaker
religious fundamentalist individuals it's it's the long denim it's like fashion stopped in the 60s and 70s they drive a 40 year old car and still use like a little zenith tube radio from the 1940s like sure no i i mean no dude like i i guess it depends on the degree to which they're fundamentalist honestly
00:17:29
Speaker
I came from a pretty conservative religious background. We can get into that more later. I don't really want to dig into that right out of the gate. But I have a lot of thoughts about that. I've been digesting a lot about religious extremism lately.
00:17:48
Speaker
Revisiting carry kind of dredged up a lot of stuff and made me think about a lot of things so. I'm interested to get into that so just heads up 17 minutes into this episode if you're someone who tends to dislike when I when I talk religion.
Religious Themes in 'Carrie'
00:18:05
Speaker
Maybe sit this one out because it's going to come up. It's part of my background. It's who I am. It's where I come from. It's going to happen. It is relevant to our discussion in the context of this discussion for sure. I know not everybody likes it. I know it's not everybody's favorite topic. And look, I get it, but it.
00:18:23
Speaker
It's germane to our conversation, so it's going to come up. Before we get into all of that, Tucker, I do want to ask you about your history with Carrie as a franchise, as a property. What is your familiarity with it? What do you know about it? Like kind of let me have it, man.
00:18:44
Speaker
Oh, how exciting. This is good. I have a I've I feel like Carrie has existed in my life since before I can remember. Things because it's one of my mom's favorite movies. Oh, right on version, of course. Yeah, of course. I met your mom. She's a sweet lady. Yeah, she's all right. Oh, your dad's fucking hilarious, too, by the way. He's ridiculous. He is. He's he's a he's a crazy cat.
00:19:14
Speaker
He's quite a character, you could say. He sure is. I was calling you Tucker and he's like, oh, I don't. I'm Tuck, so I'm very confused right now. Yeah. That was a fun conversation. Yeah. Well, like I say, the original Carrie is one of my mom's favorite movies.
00:19:37
Speaker
And so I feel like I've kind of known about it forever. Mm hmm. Like you knew about it before you had actually seen it. Well, and I've I was never until I was of age, I was never technically allowed to watch like R rated movies. Gotcha. You say technically there because it I'm assuming it happened once or twice. Well, the lines blurred when I turned about 15 or 16 and I started getting into horror. So like there was really
00:20:05
Speaker
like they're like, well, he's into horror. Like, how are we going to not let him watch our rated movies? He's like 15. So he's probably five, you know. Right. But I'm sure I saw like a TV edit of it when I was younger. OK, I'm almost sure because I know we had it on VHS tape, like taped off TV. So right. I saw I saw the network TV edit, so it couldn't have been that bad. Sure. Yeah.
00:20:29
Speaker
Uh, but I've always known about it. Um, like I said, a couple of weeks ago on the Christine episode, uh, I did have a small period of my adolescence where I read a whole bunch of Stephen King books. Right. I did read this, but I don't remember anything about it. I, I, I learned something this week. Apparently it's an Pissolory novel. I didn't know that. I didn't know it was like Dracula. Like it's all like letters and accounts and shit. I had no idea. It's not, well, yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
Uh, and Stephen King said that was like what kept him writing it is because that was fun to do those, to like mimic the styles of the different like press releases and like witness accounts and stuff.
00:21:13
Speaker
I mean, we have a friend who frames everything that he writes as some form of epistolary, something or other. JP Lek, friend of the podcast. That guy, pretty much everything he writes is some form of like third party writing. Although it all seems to sound, you know, very, very much his kind of more, shall we say, floral prose style. But yeah, that's true.
00:21:39
Speaker
That's true. So yeah, I don't remember anything about this book. When this one came out, of course, I was really into The Rage Carry 2.
00:21:52
Speaker
Really worth mentioning? Yes. And you know, if you want the fact that I had to like push this back, like I had to keep it on the it was on the schedule for November. I had to keep it on the schedule and build an entire theme month around it because you so desperately wanted to cover the ridge carry to and I told you it wasn't going to happen until we could cover Kerry 2013 on the main feed. I said we we will cover. And so I.
00:22:20
Speaker
the things the links I go to to make you happy with scheduling Tucker. And I appreciate it. I really do. That's all I ask. All I ask is to be appreciated. That's all I want. I do. So I saw this movie when it came out. I didn't. I didn't see it at the theater. I was going to ask where you where you saw it, but no, not at the theater then. OK.
00:22:44
Speaker
I had a friend that worked at a family video and so I got all the codes from all the movies that were coming out. Oh that's nice dude. No wonder your voodoo is as stacked as it is. That's why well and stacked and full of shit that I don't even like.
00:23:01
Speaker
because I was just getting random codes and popping them in being like, sure, what's up? We're going to watch this now, I guess, which is why you've got to break it down into the this is shit. This is not categories. But yeah, yes, that's why I have lists of my voodoo. Yes. Most people probably don't use that function, but I have to because I polluted it in the early days, tainted it early, early and often. I did. I saw it and I liked it a lot. I still felt.
00:23:29
Speaker
very much like I do now that it's kind of two movies and I like the one that's kind of a new take. Yeah. It's a 50-50 movie, man. It's so weird. I feel like every decade, I mentioned this to you in the chat, like every decade someone decides we need to revisit Carrie. And I have a theory as to why that is. I think it's because
00:23:55
Speaker
the more high school life and high school reality changes from decade to decade, high schoolers generally remain the same.
00:24:04
Speaker
They're very petty, they're very concerned with appearances, in general terms, of course. Petty concerned with image and vanity and popularity. Those in the in crowd, those in the out. All of these things remain true within the dynamics of high school as we progress through the decades. So the story itself, in that sense, is very evergreen.
00:24:31
Speaker
Um, without being, and then we can, we can adjust some of the details and try to say something. And this is where I think it tends to get murky with all these different various adaptations. Try to say something about what it's like, what life was like for teenagers today. And I think that's where these remakes and adaptations tend to miss the mark. Which that's the most important thing about a remake. Agreed. That's the goal of a remake is to take this thing that worked.
00:25:01
Speaker
back then and switch it up a bit so that it works now, like interpret it through a modern lens. Exactly. And this movie gets it half right. And I mean, again, watching the 2002 version, watching the the Rage Carry 2 and 99 from 99, watching the 88 musical, like all of those things become abundantly clear, like we're taking it up to a point.
00:25:28
Speaker
But like there's been a Carrie adaptation every decade since the novel came out. There's one. There's a movie in 76, a musical in 88, also in 88, Jason versus Carrie, Friday, the 13th, part seven, The New Blood, my favorite of the franchise. So, of course, I have to count it. Ninety nine, you get the Rage Carrie two. A couple of years later, you get the Carrie made for TV movie that Brian Fuller wrote. And then you get in 2013, about 10 years after that, you get
00:25:58
Speaker
This this movie and I sent you guys a link the other day that they're considering another one with hunter shafer To star in that one. So I mean there's there's something in that story that I think is evergreen that we Find ourselves continuing to come back to and I I get it. There is something very
00:26:22
Speaker
universal about this, about this story that there's, and there's a lot to do with it. It's just, can it be done well? And I would argue De Palma is the only one to do it really well, but I think this movie comes closest after De Palma. I think this movie comes closest. I think as much, as much as I think that the Rage Carry 2 would have been better off not being a sequel. Mm hmm.
00:26:48
Speaker
I do think that it does as far as interpreting that story for a modern audience, I think it does the best at that. You know, even though it's not a remake, right? I think that it may be not in every way, but I think it's the strongest, like, because like we said in unenfranchised peak behind the paywall. Hmm.
00:27:15
Speaker
like it's really good at being you know 1998 the movie I was gonna say it's certainly more than any other movie it feels very much of its time in place like this movie gets a lot of details right but then some others kind of go for a more timeless feel like the when they're trying on tuxes Tommy like stops on the one that's got like the ruffles on the on the front like the fringe ruffles on the front you're like well that's very
00:27:38
Speaker
That's very 76. That's very, very similar to the tux that Tommy Ross wore to the prom in the original film. Like there, it tries to kind of ride those lines in various ways, like the way that the white family comports and carries themselves. You mentioned very 1970s, very old fashioned. So again, I think it, but in terms of crystallizing a film and its time and place,
00:28:05
Speaker
I don't think there is any movie more 90s than the Rage Carry 2. Again, I'm sitting there watching it going like, go, can't hardly wait. All those movies from that late 90s period that are just so 90s, all those teen movies. And Rage Carry 2 absolutely belongs in that conversation, absolutely does.
00:28:29
Speaker
You really need to see Idle Hands, Steven. It's kind of upsetting that you have it. See which one? Sorry. Idle Hands. Idle Hands. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet. Another one from 99. That's gonna be another one that you're gonna add to that list of movies that are
00:28:46
Speaker
You know, late nineties, the movie, probably. Yeah. I mean, you know, you got the, the Devin, Devin Sawa, Jessica Alba of it all that. And that doesn't really surprise me. Seth green. Seth green. Yeah. I get also in can't hardly wait. A very young Elton Henson, Vivica a Fox Jack knows worthy. Oh God. Okay. Yeah. The late nineties, the movie, man.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I mean, this one's got that early 2010s energy to it with that cast. And the thing that's really wild about it, and this feels radical, even though it doesn't feel like it should feel as radical as it does, Chloe Grace Moretz, the first actual teenager to play Carrie.
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah. Never mind the fact that the rest of the cast is practically in their 20s and a good 10 years older than her. Like Chris and Sue are both like in their 20s, I think. The the act, I think the youngest members of the cast are maybe like three years older, so they're like 18, but she is like straight up 15 in this movie.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I think that works in creating a sense of isolation and longing because what younger teenager doesn't look up to and feel kind of awkward around older teens, like people that are more progressed and mature, quote unquote mature. Like I feel like that lends a lot to particularly the first half of the movie and her performance there.
00:30:20
Speaker
I don't know. What do you what do you think about Chloe Grace Moretz in this film? I think she's really good in this movie. I do, too. I think that they did a really good job of. I don't know, like with the way she had her hair and her wardrobe and stuff. They kind of made you believe.
00:30:44
Speaker
that she could be like an outcast, you know, and she sold it to. Yeah. Which if you see her in anything else, she's a cute gal. Yeah. And they don't they don't ugly her up or anything like they don't know her in glasses or put like a big hairy mole on her nose or something like, you know, pigtails or whatever. Yeah. It's all it's all in the performance and like the costume design, honestly.
00:31:11
Speaker
Yeah, and it I think yeah, I think she's an incredible performer. I really do. And this is the second movie we've covered from of hers fairly recently. We covered the fifth wave not too long ago. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that movie. Yes, it's because it's very forgettable. It's an imminently forgettable movie.
00:31:33
Speaker
I forgot it like a lot of this we recorded that podcast out of my brain out of your brain. A lot of those YA adaptations kind of fit into that zone of just like this is so incredibly fucking forgettable. Yeah, you know, yeah. But yeah, so but I think and but I remember her being one of my favorite parts of that movie as well. And I will say the things that I enjoy most about this movie are the performances.
00:32:01
Speaker
particularly her and Julianne Moore. I think that's a one-two punch and you need those two characters to really hit. I think she really hits in this. I mentioned on Unfranchised yesterday, the thing that I was missing in so many of the other
00:32:18
Speaker
Um, Carrie figures in these movies is like the facial expressiveness that Sissy Spacek really brought to it. And she was able to do a lot just with her eyes and watching CGM in the like last third of this movie, uh, Chloe Grace Moretz, uh, watching. I got it. I got it. I saw you thinking real hard. I saw those gears turn in and smoke starting to rise out of your ears.
00:32:44
Speaker
You got this. I got through the headphones without overwork. It is good. Like she's she doesn't quite hit the basic levels, but she's doing more with. And I think a lot of it might be CGI enhancement as well, like upon reflection. But it feels like her eyes really pop.
00:33:05
Speaker
in a way that and I know one of her eyes is like blood over it like it like the like a blood vessel is burst in her eyes kind of the image that we get, which I know kind of helps that stand out a lot. But like she's doing the eye acting that SpaceX is doing again, not quite as over, not quite as it's not. It doesn't pop quite as well as hers does. But I think she's doing it better than
00:33:32
Speaker
Angela Bettis or Emily Bergell, no offense to their performances whatsoever. They're both great. But I think she's doing that to a greater extent than the two of them are. Well, I would I would disqualify Emily Bergell because as we discussed yesterday, she is not playing Carrie.
00:33:47
Speaker
I did say carry figure, but yes. OK, I'm just saying so I don't know. I don't know, man. That's a record show. A different character. Yes. A completely different character. But related and therefore a carry figure. They are sisters. Spoilers. If you ask the rage, get the rage carry too. They are straight up sisters, dude. Spoilers for an almost 30 year old movie, a 25 year old movie. But no one's seen it. That's the problem. No.
00:34:14
Speaker
Look, it's on HBO Max right now. Go watch it. It sure is. Check it out. I think it's I think it's look I think it's worth watching at least once. Are you going to like as much as I do? Probably not. But it's not a waste of time, for sure. Right. So. I mean, I watched it. I watched all the carries. It I mean, it's it's my probably my least favorite of the carries. But, you know. Yeah. Well. Sorry, it's a tough room, you know.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, you know, look, not everything has to be for everybody. And that's OK. No, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, I'm going to do that. But, hey, man, how many times is the principal going to like the principal calling her different names is like the like the pearls in Batman's parents death scene. It is in every way. It's just carries over. It's like, you know, you're like, that's how you.
00:35:11
Speaker
I'm going to carry a movie called Cassie. Or Casey. He does Casey in this one a few times. Yeah. It's a, I mean, it's kind of a staple of the, it's a staple of the franchise, right? It is the staple, yeah. Like how do you, and it's kind of a shorthand, like how do you convey checked out educator?
00:35:31
Speaker
like guy who or or, you know, because because that I think that's the great irony of that character in all of these adaptations. And I think Barry Shabaka Henley is hands down the best actor to play the principal in any of these adaptations. I was going to say that to motherfucking Barry Shabaka Henley. That man can do no wrong. I love that man. Every time he shows up, it is a treat. Even if it's a movie I don't particularly like, like the terminal. I'm still having a good time because Barry's there.
00:35:59
Speaker
Like Barry signed up for this? Hell yeah. Love him in Collateral. If you've not seen Michael Mann's Collateral, the scene with him and Tom Cruise is fucking bone chilling. It's so good. Yo, Collateral's one of the best films ever made.
00:36:14
Speaker
It is my, I think, second or third favorite Michael Mann movie. And given like it's it's like that heat is number one with a bullet because I fucking love heat. Yeah, but he's one of my top five most Michael Mann movie that you can get. No, it's not. I feel like you clearly have not seen Miami Vice because Miami Vice is the most Michael Mann movie that ever did Michael Mann. Yeah, Michael Mann is Michael Manning so hard in Miami Vice.
00:36:45
Speaker
You're right, but the close second. OK, OK, I'll give you close second is collateral. He's Michael Manning, his ass off. He is. I think he is. He absolutely is. You're not wrong. Like the character archetypes, like the dynamic, like it's the same thing he does in all of them. But this one just feels like he's like, all right, guys, I'm really in the groove on this.
00:37:07
Speaker
And then and then Miami Vice, and he's just like fucking gloves off. It's Michael Man's season, bitch. But he like it's so it's he collateral and inside in the insider like those are my top three.
00:37:23
Speaker
Um, and I don't know where I, I know I put heat at number one, but the other two, I would need to rewatch to figure out where I put them, but they're both amazing masterworks. And I've not seen Ferrari yet. I need to. Um, but it's been a few years in it, but it's a Michael Mann movie. What, what the fuck are you talking about?
00:37:41
Speaker
I'll probably see it at some point. I'm just not like tripping over myself. I mean, I'm not like I'm not obviously I'm not rushing out to see it like I haven't seen it yet. I'm gonna. But I just haven't done it yet. I'll probably watch it if somebody's like, hey, you want to watch Ferrari with me? I'd be like, OK, smoke a bowl, watch Ferrari. Hell, yeah. I or if we covered it on the podcast. I can't see any reason why we would cover it on the podcast. What about the Ferrari two, dude?
00:38:11
Speaker
about Ferrari, Michael Mann is not making Ferrari, too. He's just not. Hey, he's just going to write the novelization, right? Look, if if for some reason he too falls through, we can cover heat on the podcast. But I it's not going to fall through and we're going to get Ferrari to mark my words. I for Ferrari, the next chap, the missing pieces. Heat two will be the first sequel Michael Mann has ever made, I think.
00:38:37
Speaker
Honestly, if we're going to cover a Michael Mann movie on this podcast, we have a better chance of covering Last of the Mohicans. Oh, yeah. Since that was part of a book series. But I have no. I mean, the the character of.
00:38:59
Speaker
Nattie Bumpo, who was renamed for the movie because Michael Mann thought the name Nattie sucked, basically. Well, he called him Nathaniel Poe is what he said of Nathaniel Bumpo. Just took the bum off, just dropped the bum. It's cleaner.
00:39:23
Speaker
just called him Nathaniel Poe for the movie. But that character appears in like several James Fenimore Cooper novels. So we could that's the one I could feasibly see us covering. We I think that we should do Manhunter. Oh, you know what? Manhunter is on the list. Manhunter is absolutely on the list.
00:39:40
Speaker
I love that movie. Manhunter fucking rules. My second favorite Michael Mann movie. There is some patron support. There's some patron support for Manhunter as well. Yes, let's do it. The people that pay our bills want Manhunter.
00:39:59
Speaker
I look, man, when magic schedule wizard do it. If we didn't have something scheduled for Ferrari, I probably would have done it when Ferrari came out, but we already had something scary around. Oh, wait, tell me, like type it in the chat. Like, no, no, Ferrari, Ferrari already came out like Ferrari came out last month. What did we cover?
00:40:19
Speaker
Uh, last month we were in the middle of our black Christmas. Oh, fuck it. Well then. Okay. That's cool. We already had something else on the schedule. So we did that instead. And that, like, that kind of bites us in the ass. A lot of times, like we've got a couple of theme months coming up this summer.
00:40:34
Speaker
And so like anything coming out those months, we have to kind of move around. Like I had to reshuffle our our Dune episode or the episode that we have coming out to tie in with Dune because you've got the week Dune comes out, we've got to straight up. And then I had to do the same for I think I had to do the same for when Deadpool 3 comes out, because again, I think same problem. We had a straight up scheduled. So your podcast, your your episodes just get in the way of everything, man. Just fuck everything up.
00:41:02
Speaker
They're worth it, though. I get to share my favorite movies with my friends. But we do have the next episode of straight up dropping at the end of February. So the odd February is a five Thursday month. Be there. Be there because it's a leap year and the first and last day is going to drop on the leap day.
00:41:28
Speaker
It will. That will be our leap day episode. So very exciting. Stay tuned. And that episode, of course, it does not fit our general format. It's just whatever the fuck Tucker brings to the table. So yeah, dude. Yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
Though you're going to run it the next time. I wasn't thrilled with my hosting abilities. Dude, you just got to warm up to it, man. The more you do it, the better you'll get. Oh, but you're so good at it, though. But you're so good at it, Steven. I've been doing it for a hot minute. I had a whole other podcast before this one that I was hosting. Good job. Look at you. And before that, I emceed my high school talent show as a sophomore in high school at age 15.
00:42:13
Speaker
The same age Chloe Grace Moretz was when she did this movie. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, pulling it back. You know, I don't think we have to do the plot in 60 because it's scary. Are you, are you thwarting the coin of justice because.
00:42:29
Speaker
I don't know if if this got announced last week. It absolutely did. I do know. But the coin of justice is 100 percent back, my friends. It's back. It's back. I move. Oh, you never put it on the socials. You never put it on the socials. I didn't. I didn't put it on social. So I guess we're even for missing you missing for for you missing. What are we watching this this past week? Yes, still has not been released.
00:42:53
Speaker
But yeah, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and do the plot just in case no one's ever seen Carrie before joining the plot in 30 seconds. If it falls to you, yes. Oh, shit. OK. If it falls to me, fuck no. It's easy. I can do it right now.
00:43:13
Speaker
Well, then why don't you just go ahead and forget the coin. I got it. No, I'm just kidding. You got the coin out. Steven, you went to all the trouble to talk about the coin. You brought it out. I mean, like it's here. We're here. Just go ahead and flip it. I'll call it in the air. All right. So for those of you who have not tuned in before, welcome. This is the plot in 60 seconds is a part of the show where at the behest of the coin of justice, we flip the coin.
Plot Summary Challenge
00:43:38
Speaker
Tucker calls it wherever it lands, that determines which of us will be recounting the plot of the episode in 60 seconds, or if it lands on Tucker this time, less. Everyone understand? Great. Tucker, call it. Tails.
00:43:56
Speaker
and it is Tails. Fuck yeah, dude. Fuck yeah, dude. All right, put 60 on the clock, dude. Oh, shit, I gotta do stuff? Tails. Yeah, man, you gotta do stuff either way. When it's just the two of us, you gotta do stuff either way. Post production guide. Damn. One minute. Okay, Steven, I'll tell you when it's 30 seconds and when there's 10 seconds left, I will start the timer when you start talking.
00:44:26
Speaker
So Julianne Moore is on an episode of I didn't know I was pregnant and she tries to kill her baby but then decides, hey, I love my baby instead. And so she doesn't kill the baby and instead of killing the baby, she raises the baby and it turns out to be Carrie and she's an outcast and no one likes her. She gets her period for the first time in front of all her friends and they make fun of her and like shouldn't have friends though. So they're all throwing tampons and telling her to plug it up.
00:44:47
Speaker
Her friends get in trouble. One of the popular girls gets in trouble. It's disqualified from the prom. So she can't go. So she vows to take revenge. So her and her boyfriend collect a bunch of pig's blood. She also posts a video of it on the internet and the teacher's like, oh, well, I guess if you didn't post the video, we'll just go ahead and let you go to prom and she won't give up her phone. So she obviously did it.
00:45:09
Speaker
Um, so then, um, they go to the, uh, the, one of the other popular girls convinces her boyfriend to go. Cause she feels bad about what happened. Um, so she, he takes Carrie and they go, she gets pigs blood dropped on her, but she's also a telekinetic and, uh, kills everybody. And, um, except for Sue Snell and the teacher, and then she might be, that's time. I don't know how to turn this off. I am what is happening. There we go. When are you, since when are you a Luddite dude?
00:45:37
Speaker
Man, I never use the timer. Never. Apparently not. But yeah, I mean, look, have you seen Carrie before? Because it's that with a couple of differences, really. Hey, you guys, look, it's Carrie. It's really pretty much it. This feels very indebted to the to the diploma film, like very indebted to there are shots and sequences taken directly from it.
00:46:05
Speaker
Which is why I think it's more of a remake of the De Palma film than it is a re-adaptation of King's novel, but there are some elements that they put in that De Palma left out from the novel too. That's the big problem with this movie is it can't decide. It can't make up its fucking mind if it wants to be a reinterpretation of the novel, or an adaptation of the novel, or a remake of the De Palma film.
00:46:27
Speaker
Like the Brian Fuller made for TV version, despite being a made for TV version that very much is filmed like it was made for TV and cast with largely TV actors. It's fine. It's it's a little worse than fine, but it's got a lot of actors I really like in it and a couple I really don't know. It's on the bad side of fine, but it's still fun. It is. It's got it. Look, it's got Candace McClure. It's got like the it's got the dude from Officer and Gentlemen, man. It does. It has.
00:46:56
Speaker
the most perfect looking woman ever created by God, Rina Sofer in it as well. Like she's in there like it's it's got some great performances in it. But at the end of the day, it's still it. Patty, fucking Patty Clarkson as Margaret White. Fuck. Yes, please. And thank you.
00:47:16
Speaker
fucking love that woman. Insane performances, but it's still not great. All that in service of this, really? It's filmed like a TV movie. All the language that kind of makes
00:47:33
Speaker
the the original novel works so well and the original film works so well is just very neutered because it's made for TV. Like so you got to cut all the profanity out of it or most of the good profanity out of it. Like it just kind of all feels very, very neutered. And it's not it's not great. The bad side of fine, as Tucker said.
00:47:56
Speaker
But that feels more like a straight up adaptation of the novel than it does a remake of De Palma's film. And because of that, you can tell what De Palma did and did not take from the original source material, like
00:48:14
Speaker
Billy has a lot more agency both in this film and in the 2002 version than Travolta's character Billy does in the 76 version. He's straight up criminal. Yeah. He's a straight up criminal. He is. And he strikes me as one of those guys like home improvement boy from the Rage Carry 2 who's just gotten away with it because his father's one of the influential people in town.
00:48:41
Speaker
Like, that's the impression that I get. But I mean, he knows like, I feel like everybody, all the popular kids, parents or lawyers, because they all know, like, well, I this is this is criminal intent. I know that's like, this is a criminal. Certainly a. That's a glorious intent or whatever he says. Yeah. Another running gag in the carry series that even the rage carry to included was the lawyer parent. Yeah. Coming to save the day. I like in in in this one.
00:49:12
Speaker
the bit with the phone that does kind of modernize it a bit. And I love that because they meant whether they meant for it or not.
00:49:22
Speaker
the fact that they show a video of her doing anything is reminiscent of the Rage Carry 2. It is. Feels like it kind of influenced it just a little, just a, maybe it didn't, but to me as someone who's a big fan of that movie, like I couldn't help but think of the Rage Carry 2 when the video was up. I was like, oh, I thought of that as well. Like it, but it's also, I think it, it, I think the Rage Carry 2 is part of that conversation.
00:49:47
Speaker
whether or not it was intended by the filmmaker or not, I think it's definitely part of that conversation.
00:49:53
Speaker
But I think it's also very much touching on the ways that teenagers bully each other now versus the way they would do it in the 70s. Like dropping pig's blood on someone is a fucking traumatic thing, absolutely. But to do that in conjunction with playing a video of the most embarrassing moment of their life when they're terrified and naked and victimized on the ground, like screaming and terror,
00:50:21
Speaker
That's like an extra layer of awful that we're just kind of putting. That's like that that just shit layer on that like absolute shit Sunday. Like it. It just really drives home how awful these kids really are. I really liked in this one that Carrie was that she. Reacted to Tommy getting hit with the bucket. Mm hmm.
00:50:50
Speaker
because there's not any other adaptation of this. Yeah. She knew he was like she knew that he wasn't part of this. Like he's the he's the Jason London of this one where she kills everybody. But she would she would she would be like, no, no, no, no, no. You you go because you're one of the good ones. Right. Yeah. I mean, well, he shows up to the party late. He's obviously not a part of it because he's the last one through the door. And and but I mean, the fact that he's
00:51:19
Speaker
Go ahead. Let's say when Tommy gets hit with the bucket on this one, like he's she's pretty distraught about it. And I feel like that's the it's the pigs blood in the video. And the fact that the bucket that the pigs blood was in killed Tommy. That's the impression that I get, because he's he don't want very few people pass out with their eyes wide open.
00:51:42
Speaker
I feel like he in every version, the bucket kills him. But I mean, it's a bucket. I know. I know. I've never understood that. I'm always like, oh, man, they knocked Tommy out again. Yeah. No. Yeah. I remember now he's actually dead somehow. I was going to say in this one, it's it seems a lot clearer that he dies somehow. Like there's blood. Maybe is there blood? Here's the thing. You can't tell because there's pig blood all over that state. Oh, yeah.
00:52:10
Speaker
Fair and he's wearing a white tux and he's also covered in it. Like that's that's the thing is you can't tell where that blood's coming from. Just again, that's part of the story and blood, a very essential part of this of the storytelling and kind of King's whole initial storytelling as well.
Symbolism and Realism in 'Carrie'
00:52:28
Speaker
And there's some religious significance to the blood also, which I will get into later as well. But like that's all of that, I think, is really
00:52:39
Speaker
Interesting, but no, you're right. It's that it's that triple whammy that really sets her over the edge. Whereas on top of the the shit that she's lived with day in day out for the last however many years she's been at the school because I mean, these kids have pretty much been relentless to her like
00:52:57
Speaker
She accidentally hit someone in the back of the head during gym and she's with the volleyball during gym and she's terrified. Like you can see on her face and they start laughing. And so she starts laughing and then someone just turns her and says, you eat shit.
00:53:11
Speaker
And then it's over like the fun is over for her. And she's right back to where she is. And then this embarrassing video gets posted of her. It's going viral around the school. She comes in. Carrie White eat shit is like smeared across the lockers. Like there's a hell that she's enduring every day.
00:53:32
Speaker
that all leads up to this moment to where she when she finally when she is finally allowed to let her guard down when she is finally allowed to enjoy herself and this is I think the great tragedy of every adaptation of Carrie and the great tragedy of Carrie herself when she finally feels at a point where she can be happy or she can be relaxed where she can finally
00:53:56
Speaker
try to figure out what it is to be herself, right? Because that's the whole thing. She's finally vulnerable. Exactly. She can finally be vulnerable around people. The whole thing about being a teenager is you're discovering who you are. Yeah. And that is itself a painful process to come into your own and discover who you are. And she's doing that. And she's finally taking those steps.
00:54:17
Speaker
And to be cut down in the worst way at that moment is, I think, such an incredible betrayal for her that she lashes out. And I mentioned this yesterday on the Rage Carry, too. Brett mentioned his frustration with the fact that in every adaptation, quote, Carrie has to die.
00:54:38
Speaker
And I said that I saw her as a tragic figure on par with the Frankenstein's monster or the creature from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein in that the real monster is not Carrie. Carrie is just as much a victim as everyone else. The real monster is the one that created her in the same way that Victor Frankenstein is the monster of Frankenstein. Margaret White is the real monster and also the bullies. Those are the real monsters of Carrie.
00:55:08
Speaker
And the fact she just happens to be the one with the supernatural gift with the supernatural ability so she's the one that gets painted as the monster when in fact she is just the tragic figure that everything is put upon.
00:55:22
Speaker
look i she doesn't i mean she has a little bit of control over her powers but she has just started kind of fucking with them right in this movie so you put someone through that kind of traumatic experience i don't even know if they're trying to murder everyone you know what i mean
00:55:41
Speaker
I would say that for most other adaptations of Carrie, but I don't know if I can say that for this one, because if you look at the in this, again, it's all in performance. It's the one part of of CGM performance that I don't like is she seems to by the end of it, she seems to be enjoying it. Like there's there's some malice to that performance and it like I don't know that I like that from Carrie.
00:56:06
Speaker
Because I mean, if that amount of trauma, you kind of snap. You would do things that you wouldn't normally do. You would behave in ways you wouldn't normally. And I think that when you see her post all of her fucking murder spree, she doesn't seem like she's very happy with herself. Like she seems really, really upset. And I have to imagine that some of that is because she just killed a shit ton of people. Right. Right.
00:56:35
Speaker
I was saying you do shit when you're upset that you don't like afterwards. You're like, what the fuck? Yeah, of course, this is on a huge scale, you know, but it's the same kind of thing I feel like. And I almost I found and again, this for our patrons, you know, that I within the past few weeks have watched or maybe you don't because I don't know if that was in the episode that Tucker didn't post or not. But I had recently watched the act, the Hulu series, the act with Patty Arquette and Joey King about Gypsy Rose Blanchard.
00:57:03
Speaker
And that I was I was thinking a lot about that as I've been watching Carrie, because it's at least not in the not in the actual light.
00:57:14
Speaker
particulars of the situation, but in how it all kind of culminates in the death of the mother figure very much so. Like, there's this trauma that's been just kind of dumped on this child for the entirety of her life, and when she finally has the means and the agency to push against it, it ends in very horrific ways.
00:57:36
Speaker
Um, and, and I guess in that one way only, those stories are very similar, but, um, I couldn't help but start to draw that comparison really. Uh, what did you think about her mom's death? Because the TV movie version is the only one that doesn't like the book. Right. Where she like stops her heart. Stops her heart. And I think in a book that plays really, really well. I agree.
00:58:06
Speaker
But I wish I wish they could have pulled it off in this one because it just seemed so derivative and the performances were so good. It was still taking me out of it. I was like, this is well, you can't like, come on, like, don't do the same exact thing. You're kind of building to that, though, like the whole movie and we see more of it in this one than we do in any other adaptation. Carrie becoming adept at using her powers like we don't see it.
00:58:35
Speaker
in any other adaptation, but we start to see her like becoming aware of them. The part of she searches magic powers on Google. Well, I mean, in the original, it's Kerry going through a library index and pulling out the card for miracles. So it's not even in the great area to like she was at the library because we still weren't like in modern Internet time.
00:58:58
Speaker
Right, right. Internet was still fledgling. Like, is this is this valuable for research was still very much a part of the conversation in 99. I remember, I remember actually being told in high school that I could not use the internet as a source for research papers. So yeah, it was that very much that era.
00:59:15
Speaker
Um, but the, um, like she, and then the scene in her room where she's levitating the books and like making like, so we're building to this moment, which I really hated how that looked the same because it was all CGI has fucking sucked.
00:59:31
Speaker
Well, and instead of like using the CGI to make it look realistic, they just CGI'd some books on strings. Like they didn't make it any better than the practical effect would have looked. They did the same thing when she broke the mirror and the pieces are in the sink. Like the pieces start to kind of float up a little bit. I'm like, this is this looks so shitty right now. It's like so bad.
00:59:55
Speaker
And it would be so easy to do like if it looks worse than it would be look practically and practically would probably be easier than to CGI. What the fuck are you doing? Right. Well, it's not the thing is it's not easier on the day. It's not easier in the room. In the room, it's easier for an actor to just like look around in awe at all the books that are flying everywhere.
01:00:19
Speaker
But it's harder in post production. So we're putting, we're just shoving that all off to later. And that's, I think, where Hollywood starts to get into a problem.
01:00:29
Speaker
But we see a little bit of her using those powers earlier. Like we see her with the wires at the dance like when she electrocutes everybody and starts walking on air. And then we see her with the car when she fucking murder straight up murders Chris. Like we see her like lift the car in the air and then let it drive into the gas station. Like we see all of those things play out. But I think it's been building to this moment with her and her mom.
01:00:55
Speaker
to where you see every sharp object in the house just come out and turn after she's been stabbed by her mother when she's really just seeking comfort. She's kind of defending herself at that point too. She's trying to stab her in the face. Right. Like she is a she is a child, a vulnerable child who has been hurt and is in pain and needs the love of a parent and instead her mother stabs her in the back. Literally stabs her in the back. Literally stabs her in the back.
01:01:25
Speaker
way.
01:01:25
Speaker
And so there is it's it's so on the nose. It's still kind of on my nose. Like I'm trying to get it off a little bit. It's been there the whole time. And I've been meaning to say something and I just haven't been able to work myself up to that side. I'm glad you brought it up. But like like they kind of like there's this burst of for lack of a better word rage and they kind of set like she blasted them apart. And then her mother comes chasing her down the stairs with this giant ass fucking butcher's knife. And in her
01:01:55
Speaker
Again, as a means of defending herself, all the sharp objects in the house come and like convert and like form a circle or a semi circle around her mother.
01:02:03
Speaker
And the thing I appreciated about it, and again, I agree, it does feel kind of derivative. It's like, well, this feels like something out of X-Men. But the thing I appreciate about it, and again, it's overwrought, but I always appreciate it, is that her mother ends up in the crucifix pose. She's got straight up stigmata going on. And again, as a religious person, I can appreciate that particularly given
01:02:31
Speaker
the focus of this character. And one thing I will say about Julianne Moore, I think she's almost as good as Piper Laurie in this role. Like, I think she makes this character so fucking terrifying. Like, and look, I love Patty Clarkson. I love Piper Laurie. Like, they both do an incredible job. I think Julianne Moore, this is the year before she finally wins her Oscar for Still Alice.
01:02:55
Speaker
But like she was one of those actors who was always in that conversation for a long time. She's the most unsettling of all the Carrie's moms. Like she's the one that really kind of makes my skin crawl. And I think because the reason for that, at least for me, is because it feels very grounded and a very real kind of person. Like Piper Laurie is playing everything very big, very broad.
01:03:21
Speaker
And I think that's why Piper Laurie thought the original Carrie was a dark comedy. She's like, I can't be going this big and it not be a comedy. But it works because the lady is insane. Exactly.
01:03:34
Speaker
But Julianne Moore's portrayal is rooted in like, and I think Patty Clarkson does this as well, but on a much smaller scale because TV, but like Julianne Moore's character is rooted in such a real place. Like it's very grounded and that's what makes it scary. Agreed. Agreed. Is because she is just a textbook fucking sociopath. You believe that people like her exist in this world.
01:04:00
Speaker
You see her do the things where she'll, you know, give Kerry a little bit of praise and give her a little bit of love and then immediately just start treating her like a piece of shit and hopping back and forth and like like pushing her and pulling her. And it's fucked up, dude. She's really good in this movie. It's it. And that is again, it feels like a very real observation of religious fundamentalism, which is on its face.
01:04:27
Speaker
all about control. Like that is what religious fundamentalism is. And it stems from this idea. What most fundamentalist doctrine comes down to is we're the right way. Everyone else is the wrong way. And it's because we understand this one particular section of it better than anyone else does. And that's I mean, when you come to a church whose entire theology is based on a specific interpretation of a specific notion,
01:04:56
Speaker
run, I guess is my as someone who has studied this lived it and taught it for so many years. Run fucking run. I mean, like she seems a fundamentalist on par with like the snake handlers in Appalachia. You know, you know about right. Yeah, she's definitely out there in the in the outer reaches of the faith.
01:05:21
Speaker
I mean, for those of you not familiar with the really, really, really, really Baptist. Oh, God. And see, that's the thing is I don't I think the smartest thing that these adaptations do. And I don't know if King, I actually looked up her character biography on the Kerry Wiki and I didn't see anything about a specific religious affiliation. I think that's fucking smart because I think most people can look at her and go, well, she's crazy. She's on the fringe of the fringe.
01:05:49
Speaker
Like she's so far out there. She doesn't even subscribe to a specific affiliation and she might go to church man by pinning one because all the churches are to My guess is too liberal to permissive. They made her they forced her to stop homeschooling Carrie. Yeah It's that bad. They don't do that to anybody. No, it's that bad. It is there's a
01:06:15
Speaker
I mean, and you get this a lot. I guess this is Steven's Christianity Corner. Welcome. Hey, here we are. I knew we were going to come back here. But that kind of exists within a lot of these very restrictive fun. And again, I grew up in a very conservative Christian denomination. I would say the part of the country that I lived in was one of the more conservative spots for this particular denomination historically.
01:06:43
Speaker
Oh, it is the bustle of the Bible belt, Steven. It is. Well, look, I the church that I went to was a little more permissive than most. But when we would go to like the big district events, like the big camp meetings or whatever, like everybody else there would be in.
01:06:59
Speaker
three-piece suits. Women would not wear jewelry or makeup. All the hair was a bun or a beehive. The higher the hair, the closer to God, I guess, was the logic. No skin. No skin was showing except for your face and your hands, and that's it. It was just insanely
01:07:19
Speaker
restrict and I remember as I was a kid and going to certain events, there was a an older lady who was at all these events and she would just complain about well, the Lord keeps laying on my heart about modest dressing for these girls running around in these jeans and these pants. And I'm like being that person. Right. Fucking person.
01:07:39
Speaker
like what the fuck like you don't have anything else to worry about but and her and her husband would have to like apologize for her every time like it happened every time um so i mean i was in i was in a more conservative space than most um my parents were not that my parents are conservative but they're not they were not never that conservative like my dad took us to a movie despite being on the church board
01:08:01
Speaker
Like we couldn't go see movies and theaters. I won't tell the church board, Steven. He's not on the church board anymore. It's OK. Oh, OK. And I don't he doesn't even go to that that denomination anymore. So we're good word. But like we would go like but when we went and the first movie I ever saw in theaters was Prancer.
01:08:23
Speaker
with Sam Elliott and Chloris Leachman in a pagoda and a reindeer and a reindeer named Prancer. But when on our way there, like my parents didn't tell us where we were going until we were halfway there. And then my dad was like, no, you cannot tell anybody at anybody at church, anybody at school, because we went to the school at a church in this denomination as well. Yeah, you can't tell anybody that we saw this movie. You cannot tell anybody. And we didn't. We didn't tell anybody because we wanted to be able to see movies and theaters because it was a really cool.
01:08:53
Speaker
But that's how conservative this group was. And I was a part of that denomination until my 20s, honestly. When I was a youth pastor, I was a youth pastor in that denomination. But I was a part of more progressive churches within that denomination. Until ultimately, I broke off and started going to like,
01:09:21
Speaker
independent church, not independent Christian churches, because independent Christian churches still believe that you have to be like immersion baptized in order for baptism to count. And again, that's kind of one of those like, very specific interpretations that the entire salvation rests on. And I'm like, that's dangerous. Beware of that.
01:09:37
Speaker
You know, the priest is not or if the pastor is not using a squirt gun, I'm not getting baptized. Sorry, I'm out. I'm sure there are pastors that do. I'm sure there, you know, Tucker, I'm sure there's a pastor out there who would baptize you, even if it meant you got to drink from the fire hose. Yes, dude.
01:09:59
Speaker
I did find the marble in the oatmeal, if that matters at all. Well, you know, as Jesus does say, blessed is he who finds the marble in the oatmeal, for he shall drink from the fire hose. That's one of the most famous passages from the entire Bible. Yeah, it's from the book of the ultra high frequency.
01:10:20
Speaker
That's the one. That's the one. Yes. My favorite. And again, I think it's smart that King doesn't subscribe a specific religious background because what I think becomes clear over the course of the film and over the course of the story is that her religious ideology is not based in anything biblical. Like Carrie, I think at one point in this movie even says that's not even in the Bible. Like the raven was sin. There's no raven.
01:10:48
Speaker
The only raven that I can think of off the top of my head that's mentioned in the Bible is the one that Noah sends off the ark. He seemed very sinful to me. Right. And Eve was weak, which again is a part of a very specific interpretation, but nowhere are those three words put together.
01:11:08
Speaker
You don't just throw that around in any context. You don't just take things out of context and be like, nope, it works. I'm going to make it work for this. But no, but that's very much what religious fundamentalism does though, is they have a very restrictive, limited view of the world and they have to bend the rest of scripture to fit that worldview. I think
01:11:31
Speaker
Even Angelical, even evangelicals, excuse me, fucking do this. Like I was watching a TikTok earlier today from Dan McClellan, who is a really incredible Bible scholar who is talking about like the ways and the ways that the original text depicts God.
01:11:49
Speaker
and how we land on one interpretation based on kind of our priority throughout history, like we land on a more Greek idea of the personage of God. And so we have to like, revise and negate the robe and the beard, right? The toga. Dude, no, it gets so much fucking deeper than that.
01:12:10
Speaker
Like the idea that God is this kind of unknowable, holy, unseeable figure.
Debate on Religious Interpretations
01:12:17
Speaker
In the past, in Scripture, you see characters literally coming face-to-face with corporeal God.
01:12:25
Speaker
God in a in a physical corporeal form. And then when you get into the more Greek ideology with the idea of like God being spirit or sukei in Greek, like you have to kind of retcon that as those ideas become more prevalent within the Greek translations of the Old and New Testaments, you kind of have to
01:12:45
Speaker
explain away some of those ancient occurrences to be something else or to be not really God. But but again, that's very much an example of the kind of overtime work that the Christian brain is willing to do to justify the stuff that they believe and they do it all the time. They don't recognize that they're doing it. But it's absolutely a part of the conversations, a part of the process.
01:13:10
Speaker
And I mean, as someone who taught it, I got very good at explaining some of those things away. It's something that I'm becoming more cognizant of as I get older, the ways in which the scripture is and necessarily needs to be in conversation with ourself, with itself, rather, and the way we need to be in conversation with it. So it's it's it's a much more dynamic
01:13:35
Speaker
So all of that to say, when we get to the character, I think of Margaret White, keeping her ideology vague but very restrictive is really helpful here. Like she is radicalized.
01:13:50
Speaker
And I think that Julian Moore plays that so well that we can think of the most like adamant Bible thumper that we've ever encountered and then dial that person up to 11. And we start to get close to where Julian Moore is coming with this particular characterization of Margaret White or with who Margaret White is as a character at all. Like that's really
01:14:17
Speaker
I think a really important part of what makes that character
01:14:21
Speaker
work is how well-grounded she is without being so well-grounded that we're subscribing a particular ideology to her because there is no ideology that fits. I'm not sure what King's original inspiration for that character was, but I think making Carrie the product of that environment as part of one of these ultra-conservative, ultra-fundamentalist families
01:14:50
Speaker
In my mind, that gives her an extra layer of isolation. That gives her an extra layer of otherness. Gives her another reason to be othered by her classmates to the extent that she is this outcast in every conceivable way. And it really, again, victimizes her even more because this was not a choice she made. This was the faith that she was, quote unquote, born into.
01:15:17
Speaker
Like her mother thought that marital. I mean, we get the sense that Carrie was conceived out of marital rape, which is fucking wrong. But like that was the only time that that character had ever had sex, like period through the entirety of her life. And because even the thought of sex was in and of itself sinful in her mind. And I've I've heard of people like babies, though.
01:15:43
Speaker
I've heard of people that believe that way, that's not an unheard of thing. But that seems like such an easy counter argument. How do we keep the population going?
01:15:55
Speaker
How do we fulfill God's first command to be fruitful and increase in number? Right? Like, are we reading the same book? Like, what's going on? But I think that's what it ultimately comes down to with a lot of these fundamentalist ideologies is we're not because we're reading it through very different lenses. And what fundamentalism ultimately is about is control. It's about controlling a group of the population or a group of people.
01:16:23
Speaker
by kind of dangling this carrot in front of them when I think true religion, as it is described throughout scripture, is about helping other people, is about loving unconditionally and not only loving people who vote the same way that you do or who look the same way you do or who go to the same kind of church that you go to.
Translation and Interpretation Challenges
01:16:48
Speaker
We all tend to be very good at drawing lines and drawing distinctions and that I don't think is what true religion is or what it looks like Biblically speaking at least you know from the book that I am reading so I don't know chew on that I guess like III think I think by and large people tend to do it wrong because we let ourselves get in the way so
01:17:13
Speaker
Let me ask you something, Steven. Yeah. Are you a King James guy? Are you a new international version guy? I'm a new American Standard guy. Oh, whoa, coming in with the wild card. Okay. Yeah. I also like the, no, I won't say new King James, that's not it. New revised standards, another really good one.
01:17:35
Speaker
Now, when you did your education on theology and philosophy, did you- As part of this denomination that I was talking about too, by the way, that's where my schooling comes from. Did you study about the differences between the translations? Was that part of the curriculum at all?
01:17:54
Speaker
I did more than that. I was a Greek minor. I minored in Koine Greek, which is to say the common Greek or the Greek of the New Testament. Like that was that was I took a minor in that. Like I took speak some Greek, Steven. Here's the thing. I don't speak it.
01:18:11
Speaker
I can only read it. No, but here's the thing. Koine was a spoken tongue, but it was written as it was spoken. A word. But Koine Greek, it's like trying to read old English today. It doesn't make much sense to us today because modern Greek, even classic Greek like Homer's Iliad is a very different kind of Greek than the Koine that they were speaking during the first century.
01:18:37
Speaker
like it's it's a very different kind of like I tried for one of my Greek classes to translate some of the Iliad and it was really really challenging and very difficult because there was a lot of disconnect between the resources that I had available for coin a and the resources that would have been required for classical like it's it's technically a poem too so like you have to take that into account it's not going to
01:19:06
Speaker
That's wild. I'll bet that was hard. And I think and again, part of what makes the work of the translator so different is there are many different ways to say similar ideas. And so the translators take liberties.
01:19:21
Speaker
And then the translators who translate those translations take liberties and so on and so forth. So what we're getting with every game of telephone, you know, is exactly like the example that are one of the examples that our professor gave us because, you know, one of the things he said is it was written to be spoken. And so like it's basically a giant run on sentence with all capital letters. There's no spaces or punctuation or anything. And so he's like,
01:19:52
Speaker
With that in mind, the sentence is G-O-D-I-S-N-O-W-H-E-R-E. How do we translate that? It can be, God is now here, or it could be, God is nowhere.
01:20:06
Speaker
And so based on the context of what it is we're translating, the context that's, again, a way to illustrate that context matters. What is the context and how does the context help us understand how we should interpret what this says and what this is supposed to say, what the original authorial intent behind this really is. And all of I mean, that's now we're talking hermeneutics, which is its own fucking thing.
01:20:33
Speaker
I want to know about this. What is it? That's a cool word. Say it a couple more times. It's basically like interpretation, translation.
01:20:52
Speaker
Like I had to take, I was required for my degree. I had to take a class. Were you freaking out because it was so fun or was it like really hard and you were freaking out because it was a lot of pressure? It was it was also rad though, right? It had its moments.
01:21:09
Speaker
it was the professor was not the most engaging professor but he was very knowledgeable a fun subject like such an interesting thing to learn about we had that semester i had to write three exegesis papers
01:21:24
Speaker
Exegesis, I think I've talked about on this podcast before I definitely talked about it on our Oops all Christianity corner on Kirk Cameron saving Christmas Yeah, I tried to check out during that movie sucks so bad. It sucked really bad exegesis is the story covering
01:21:40
Speaker
Interpreting scripture by pulling the meaning out of the text trying to figure out what it is the author is trying to say an extrapolating meaning based on that and you can look at it from a number of factors the language they use the the actual historicity who the audience is who the author is the.
01:21:58
Speaker
the specifics of that place at that time, like where in the world is it being written? At what time? All of those things have a bearing on the meaning of the text. We talk about that a lot. With regard to film, I think all art that becomes an essential part of the conversation, like to understand how revolutionary a movie like
01:22:17
Speaker
Citizen Kane is, you have to understand what film was like before and after Citizen Kane, like what it is, what what Citizen Kane did that no other film before it had done, where it's drawing its influences from and then how film changes as a result after it. And you can kind of be before Twin Peaks. Exactly. Exactly. Very like something like something like Breaking Bad. You know, you have these milestones where TV just changes forever.
01:22:43
Speaker
Exactly. And so the when of it is an important part of that context. The where of it is an important part of that context. So all of these things matter in interpreting scripts. So again, the idea is that we're pulling the meaning out of the text. The opposite of that is isegesis, wherein we're reading a text and putting our own meaning onto the text, which is very much what fundamentalism becomes about. It's this idea of
01:23:11
Speaker
This is what this means because this is what applies to me right now. And this is what I think of when I read it. Therefore, this has to be my understanding of this text. And therefore, because the Bible is true, ultimately true for everybody, it needs to be the way everybody interprets this text. And if you're not, then you're wrong.
Fundamentalism and Open Dialogue
01:23:29
Speaker
Which is wild. But that whole last three sentences, you said that's wild. Correct. But.
01:23:38
Speaker
It's just a circle because that's how you get there, though, dude. That's wild. And then someone somewhere, I was actually talking to one of our one of our fans on on Insta the other day, Norvin Klein. Hey, Norvin, he'll get to this episode in like a month. But I was talking to him on Instagram the other day and we were talking about he is a patron and a really big fan of the ups all Christianity corner episodes. He's like, I don't believe in any of this stuff, but I find it really fascinating.
01:24:07
Speaker
Hey, that's where I'm at, man. That's why I like doing them. Right. And, you know, I mentioned that not everyone is a fan, not everyone likes it when I when I do this shit. And he was just like, you know, it that that strikes me as kind of odd. I was like, you know, open and closed mindedness.
01:24:23
Speaker
It falls on both sides. Like people who do believe in Christianity can be very close-minded to people that don't. People that don't can be very close-minded to people that do. Like open and close-mindedness does not need a religious affiliation. Everyone can be open and close-minded to something. But I think we're able to learn more when we're open to the conversation, when we're open to meeting at the table and checking out the reasons why we believe differently. But I think so few people are willing to do that. And I think that's why
01:24:51
Speaker
That's why fundamentalism exists in all of its forms is because there's no willingness to budge on something like that. Again, the idea is that if this thing is true, then I can't waver on any point of it because if I do, then it all comes crashing down. Are you familiar with the Creation Museum and Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis and all that? I've heard about the Creation Museum.
01:25:18
Speaker
It's run by this dude named Ken Ham, who is also like responsible for this website called Answers in Genesis. Basically. Short Earth or young Earth creationism, the idea that everything that exists was created within the span of like 10,000 years max. Everything as it exists now within 10,000 years. And it, you know, rejects the notion of evolution in favor of a
01:25:44
Speaker
You know, like a more pointed fast-tracked.
01:25:51
Speaker
creation, etc., based on a literal reading of Genesis 1. And I have literally heard people that subscribe to this philosophy say out loud that if we start to question in public to people that presumably respected their opinions on things, that if we if we don't believe this truth that Genesis 1 literally happened exactly as written,
01:26:16
Speaker
then basically the rest of scripture doesn't matter, and Jesus didn't die for our sins. It's very much a baby with the bathwater kind of thinking that used to infuriate me as someone who actually took this shit seriously, still does, but someone who actually engages with this on a serious, because it completely destroys any conversation, like, no, you have to see it my way, or we can't talk.
01:26:45
Speaker
Like you have to meet me on my terms or there's no conversation. And like there's no wiggle room there and that's fundamentalism. At its core, that is fundamentalism. It is a rooted stick in the sand. I'm not budging. I am the tree planted by the water that cannot be moved and nothing you say or do will convince me that I'm wrong. And that's why I think it's so fucking scary.
01:27:11
Speaker
to see the way that Julianne Moore plays Margaret White because she is absolutely that kind of thinker, that kind of person, the kind of person who can rationalize murdering their own child because she believes it's what God wants her to do in that moment. So you think she stopped herself because I feel like you can kind of interpret that moment in two ways. You can interpret it that she stopped herself, like she stopped short of it and then reconsidered, or
01:27:41
Speaker
Maybe, you know, maybe that's telekinesis, Kyle. Well, I think at the beginning, she stops herself like with the scissors, like the very beginning of the film where she actually gives birth, completely talking about the birth. I know later in the film, that's the telekinesis. I'm just saying you could interpret that as the baby stopping her. I don't think so, because when we revisit that later in the film, she says.
Telekinetic Abilities and Adaptations
01:28:07
Speaker
I hope they're OK.
01:28:12
Speaker
later in the film when they're on the stairs and she's getting ready to stab her again, she said, God, let me keep my baby. She said, I saw you and I loved you. And so my my thinking is that she stopped herself. And now in this moment,
01:28:27
Speaker
regrets that she made that decision in the first place. But I feel like also what you just said, that could be interpreted as before she even knew about the the telekinesis stuff. Maybe that was God stopping her to show her that, you know, I feel like that could be something that would enter her mind, you know, potentially in interpreting it that way is not far fetched. Right. As I'm saying.
01:28:55
Speaker
I'm given given what movie it is. I agree. Absolutely. And given I thought that was interesting about that whole scene because you don't get that scene in the original. You don't get the birth scene that this is, I think, the only and I could be wrong. I don't think this scene is in the book either. I think this is the only place we get this scene.
01:29:17
Speaker
And it only works, the interpretation that I'm talking about only works if you're familiar with the other adaptations, because if you go into this completely blind, your interpretation is, oh, she just couldn't do it.
01:29:29
Speaker
But if you know Carrie, there's this little thing in the back of your mind, you're like, what if the baby stopped her? Probably not, but what if? And that's another thing that I think gets muddied across other adaptations of this is when does this start for Carrie? When do these abilities kick in? Because my impression has always been, or had been,
01:29:51
Speaker
at least with the first the first adaptation. And what I understood about the book is that it started at puberty. Like she didn't really start to exhibit these until she got her period. And then that's when the curse started. She was not in the book and in the TV version. The first time they show her using her powers is when she sees the neighbor lady.
01:30:16
Speaker
And then her mom comes out and she's a little girl when that happens and she brings the rocks from the sky. Yeah, that's right. That's right. OK, so that it's kind of ambiguous, at least if in the book and in the TV adaptation. I mean, in the rage, we get it from her as a young girl, like running through the house and the door slamming and the spoon twirling. I love that big long shot of that. That's great. It's a good shot.
01:30:41
Speaker
And you know what Julianne Moore reminds me of? The lady that plays Rachel's mom in the Rage Carry 2, she's not anywhere near as awful as Julianne Moore is playing this woman. But there is a little bit of it. Whenever I see Julianne Moore's performance, I think of the beginning of Carrie
01:31:02
Speaker
or not Carrie, at the beginning of the Rage Carry too, when little tiny Rachel comes up and she's like, let's just play. Let's go do something. And she just smacks her with a paintbrush. That's a Julie and more Carrie's mom kind of thing to do.
01:31:16
Speaker
That I thought, and I didn't mention this on the episode that we recorded yesterday that's coming out on Sunday, but that felt very much like an allusion to the original film with the blood, like the pig's blood as you get the- Oh yeah, I had never considered that. The red on the face, just kind of drawing our attention to this is our carry analog for this movie. Yeah, that's why I hadn't considered that. But yeah, Julianne Moore is
01:31:43
Speaker
Terrifying in the movie she is she I mean she even gets a jump scare mobile every time she's back Completely talking over each other about two completely different things. We don't we're it's it's late guys um She gets a fucking jump scare moment like when Carrie comes back from the prom and her mom is broken out of the closet though Oh, yeah
01:32:06
Speaker
She does like paranoid, paranoid, paranormal activity kind of through the background, skitters across the background. It's good that because so terrifying and not because they did it that way, but because that character is terrifying every time she's on screen. I am uncomfortable. I am scared for Carrie for her mental health and for her physical health whenever this woman is around.
01:32:32
Speaker
And like, it's just like at the beginning of the movie when she's in the principal's office and they're like, yo, uh, fuck. Hey, hey, Cassie, like, right. We got to call your mom and she's like, uh, are you sure, man? Cause maybe that would really suck. And then that's you. Once you meet her mom, that's you, the rest of the movie, whatever her mom is there. You're like, Oh, Oh fuck.
01:32:55
Speaker
And I don't get that with Piper Laurie. I don't get that with Penny Clarkson. I absolutely get that with with Julianne Moore. And again, it's it's a performance thing, but I think she's making the right choices to really sell that which is again, why I think the performances in this movie are probably my favorite part of this movie.
01:33:17
Speaker
The performances, every performance in this movie that I can think of, I can't think of any that that weren't awesome. They're really what makes this for me, uneven movie. An actual good film. Hmm. Without these performances, this movie would be fine. Some parts of it would be fine. But the fact. That everybody's selling it so fucking hard.
01:33:47
Speaker
It's easy to overlook the stuff that does not work in this movie, which is about, for me, half of this movie. And not selling it hard in a way that like reeks of try hard, like you're over trying. No, it's genuine. I believe it. I believe all the performances in this movie.
01:34:01
Speaker
They're selling it hard to the extent that you believe it. They're actually connecting. I think that is what elevates this movie because the script is fine. Again, in so many moments, it's just a boilerplate remake of Carrie. I read a review on Letterbox that I kind of agreed with. The person said, I can't think of another reason why this exists other than money.
01:34:29
Speaker
And I get it. Like it feels on that level very craven. But for the performances, I think if we'd done something more with the cyberbullying angle, I think that could have really connected. That could have really been something, but we don't ever.
01:34:48
Speaker
really do that we kind of because they have one foot in the original like cemented in the original and that's why despite how effective it is that's why
01:35:06
Speaker
Carrie and her mother and their house and everything they own and their vehicle just seems so out of place because they've got that one foot back there that they can't just seem to bring it on up into this other movie.
01:35:19
Speaker
Whereas honestly, like they should be kind of like a neo or maybe like a slightly more locked in and unhinged version of like the Dougers, really, because that's kind of the face of Christian fundamentalism these days with a fucking Duggar family like. That that should be, again, on a much smaller scale, because, you know, there's only the one kid as opposed to like 50. But you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, dude.
Future of 'Carrie' Adaptations
01:35:50
Speaker
I mean, if we do get this updated version with Hunter Schaeffer that they've been discussing since October, I don't know if they're still discussing it, I would be interested to see it. Again, it feels like we get an adaptation of this character and the story about once a decade. And if this is the one that we get for this decade, then
01:36:11
Speaker
I'm into it. Like I like Hunter Shafer. I think she's really good on Euphoria is pretty much all I've seen her in. But she's also in the the new Hunger Games movie that came out last year that I still haven't seen. Yeah, I don't know who that is at all. You should watch Euphoria, dude. I think you'd probably dig it. I don't think either that or it would infuriate you. I don't know which, but that's probably the latter. I've seen trailers and stuff. I've watched enough stuff on HBO that
01:36:40
Speaker
I I get what it's about. Yeah. And like the I think that's another one where I think the performances and the writing were both really solid. So, yeah, I would I would totally be into a Carrie remake for it's not listed on her upcoming films. So I think it might still be in the conversation stage, but maybe the twenty twenties is the first decade that we don't get a Carrie adaptation. I don't know.
01:37:08
Speaker
Maybe I heard they're they're wanting to do a mini series, right? I think that's what that article said. Yeah, I don't remember. It's been a couple of days since I read it, but yeah, a few. Yeah, but yeah.
01:37:25
Speaker
Sorry, I'm just thinking about some of the really cool parts about this movie. Like go off, man. Go off. Let's talk a lot of old stuff in this movie. Like I say, the performances, the opening scene. Actually, look, you're going to know because I've complained about so much stuff in this movie by the time this podcast is over, you'll know what I liked about the movie because it's the stuff I didn't mention and something I did not like. Something I really.
01:37:55
Speaker
really loathed. Hmm. More than the epilogue to the rage carry, too, which as much as I love that movie, that's fucking stupid. Sure. In this movie, it's the ending. Ah, OK. Cool. I guess we just ended a Carrie movie, did we? Did we actually end a Carrie movie that way? Right. Yeah. Fucking what?
01:38:21
Speaker
And again, it's almost like we can I guess we can presumably infer that she might not be as dead as we thought because we didn't actually see her get crushed under the house or anything. Dude, it's bullshit. Like that whole final sequence is bullshit after Carrie dies. It's bullshit till the credits. It's basically our we're trying to do the original. She's not dead ending without actually doing the original. She's not dead ending.
01:38:51
Speaker
I feel like they gave up. They just threw in the towel. They were like, look, we're not going to beat the diploma scare that even though no matter how many times I watched the original Carrie, I still jump 10 foot out of my seat when her arm comes out of the ground. Yeah, every fucking time. I think they just conceded. They were like, look, we're not going to beat that. So like fucking whatever the rest of this movie was pretty all right. Like who gives a shit?
01:39:12
Speaker
Apparently they did originally, there is an alternate ending and it is the ending of the original film. Like, Sue comes, puts flowers on the grave. I did read that and it was the test audiences that decided.
01:39:27
Speaker
Yeah, because well, and again, it just I get why they why they say that because it's the same ending as the movie. Like, can we do something different? Like, and I mean, it's it's a king adaptation. Can she can she come up and spit a snake out into Sue Snell's mouth? God, no.
01:39:49
Speaker
God, no, let's not do that at all, please. What a terrible idea you just had. That's an odd footage of it if you want to use it. You know what, Neil, what they should have done, they should have just had
Critique of Adaptation Endings
01:40:01
Speaker
her become like desiccated and then shatter like glass. Yes, that would fit even better. God.
01:40:09
Speaker
For no reason. Who knows why? With the exception of the original film, I think the epilogues to these carry adaptations tend to be the worst. They fail every time. And you're waiting for it too. You're like, all right, that wasn't that bad, but well, here it goes.
01:40:27
Speaker
Here we fuck it. That's how I feel the rates carry to every time I watch them like, yeah, that was fucking rad. Like if we talk this part's coming. If we maybe if we'd maybe left it at just like the ground kind of shaking and maybe a crack starting to form at the base of the grave, that would have been something ominous. But when we we do the shatter, we do the scream and it's just kind of like sometimes less is more.
01:40:55
Speaker
Um, and I think that could have been better for this particular adaptation that has really not gone. That hard up to this point to suddenly go that hard, that quickly right at the end, just feels off. It is nice to see the full circle on Carrie white burns in hell because you got Carrie white burns in hell in the original. And then you have.
01:41:25
Speaker
uh, Venkman burn in hell and Ghostbusters. Then you have clerks burn in hell, right? And the clerk's animated series. And now here we are. We're right back at the beginning back again. And it is a beautiful circle back again, everything in that circle. I appreciate. That's your hyper specific, uh, letterbox letterbox list. That's the one right there.
01:41:52
Speaker
Not the 1996 fourth movies and long running franchises that put their villains in the middle of space. That's a good one, too. OK. But not quite as like hyper specific. Yeah. As contains the phrase. Burned character burns in hell or burn in hell. Right. Written somewhere in red. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's.
01:42:19
Speaker
And I mean, it also ties back to the Carrie White shit graffiti that we see earlier, like that, even in death, she can't get away from the bullying. Like it just, I think, compounds her tragic nature as a character. Again, they could have they could have used a more deft touch on the ending. They didn't have to.
01:42:39
Speaker
And I think that's part of the problem with movies that have those iconic endings, like the original Friday the 13th, or the original Nightmare on Elm Street, the original Carrie, that if you're trying to remake or revisit them, you feel on some level compelled to go back to an ending like that to try to match or to try to one up or if not match that level.
01:43:03
Speaker
of iconography for the ending, and it's not possible. Like you have to do something different. I'm at the point where I don't even know how King ended his original novel because I have never read it, A, but B, every adaptation has ended differently than his novel. She do be dying at the end of the novel, though. Oh, that I do know. That at least I know.
01:43:27
Speaker
But again, I see just she trashes the whole town in that. But again, I think because this is town and but she's also telepathic in that one, too. So she's like broadcasting it to everybody. Oh, yeah. I'm the one doing yes. Fucking day. That's so rad.
01:43:44
Speaker
Here's how the things that works literally more than it ever would on film. I really want to see your mom's heart stop in a way that is really rad on screen though. Maybe in the next remake don't need that. Maybe we'll get that. So apparently the the the novel ends with.
01:44:01
Speaker
The town basically like getting aid. Everyone who serve all the teachers that survived retire from teaching. Sue publishes a memoir. When she gets out of Arkham, right? There's right. There's a report investigating other paranormal activities. And then there's a woman from Appalachia who's writing her sister about her telepathic daughter. And that's the end. That's the sequel hook. Right.
01:44:32
Speaker
Like that's King's sequel hook. But it's never got to carry to the book. I read that. Give me carry to the book right now, Stephen King. Come on, man.
Interconnectedness of Stephen King's Novels
01:44:42
Speaker
Yeah, man. I mean, look, you gave us the shining to you can give us carry to.
01:44:47
Speaker
And Dr. Sleep was like, no lie, kind of the shit. The movie was really good. I didn't read the book, but the movie is really good. Like Mike, Mike Flanagan guy. I'm like Flanagan guy. He seems like he knows what he's doing. He's pretty good at making the movies. I think also the television shows. He's got a real knack for, you know, telling stories visually and whatnot, moving pictures. Indeed, indeed, indeed, you know, indeed, he's that kind of guy.
01:45:18
Speaker
Yes, indeed, indeed, do word. All right. Well, Kerry 2013 opened on Friday, October 18th in the year of our Lord 2013.
01:45:32
Speaker
It opened in third place the weekend that it came out. Not a great start. Heading into Halloween weekend. Right? And it's scary, dude. Yeah, it opens to 16.1 million dollars in its opening weekend in number one from Warner Brothers. Future Academy Award winner for Best Director, Gravity.
01:45:59
Speaker
What if there was gravity? Hey, I liked that movie. That was good. No, it's good. It's good.
01:46:07
Speaker
In second place, who's the captain now? It's Captain Phillips in second place. Yeah, I see that one. And it's second week. In third place, we have Carrie, which is the only the the the highest grossing new film opening this week. Right behind it, another film opening this week. What if we tried to do heat? But with Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger both past their prime, it's a skate plan.
01:46:34
Speaker
Hey. Hey, from Lionsgate. That one opens to about just shy of 10 million. In third place, Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2. Hey, I like all of those movies. A movie I saw in theaters without ever having seen the first one. Really? That's a shame.
01:46:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's all that when it had no idea what was going on. Real good. Yeah, I have since seen the first one, but the second one I was. Another movie I saw in theaters in sixth place, Prisoners, Denis Villeneuve's Prisoners in its fifth week. I don't know what the fuck that is.
01:47:07
Speaker
Oh, dude, that's Hugh Jackman and Jake Gyllenhaal and Melissa Leo and Paul Dano. And Paul Dano is kind of my I got to watch all the things he's in because I like him that much. So I have to watch this now. It's a good one. Prisoners. I'm a one you know, dude, it's a tough watch.
01:47:27
Speaker
OK, it's it's a tough watch. Well, it means I better watch it sooner or later, because sooner than later, because the older I get, the tougher it is to have a tough watch. It's it's about it's about a child abduction. I'll just say no. It's it's a tough watch. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah. Is no your parents.
01:47:47
Speaker
Yeah, I it's it is worse than Ransom. Yeah, a lot worse. Yeah, because that's like that's my like Ransom is about as far as I can go. I'm about to do. I'm about to do a movie. I'm about to do a spoiler for for for prisoners. So like jump ahead five seconds if you don't want to hear it starting now, you get to see Hugh Jackman torture a dude.
01:48:14
Speaker
That's cool. I mean, huge Ackman is really rad. He is. And he's great in the movie. Like he is hitting like the fact that he did not get an Oscar nomination for that movie is kind of wild, because if he should have gotten it for that and not fucking lame is. But, you know, like.
01:48:32
Speaker
I like that Hugh Jackman, he's so versatile, man. He just kind of weaves his way in and out of Hollywood just doing he does like the Nick Cage thing, but like everything he's in is incredible almost. Right. Right. That's right. But he does so many different things. Look at his filmography and like he doesn't really have a.
01:48:58
Speaker
He's never really been outside of Wolverine. He's never been typecast. Well, he's playing the same character. So it's not really typecasting. It's just like continuing that role. Exactly. It's just the role he's come back to the most amount of times. And one more time in next year's and this year's Deadpool next year. This year's Deadpool later this year. Maybe if Deadpool 3 proves popular enough, we'll get a Van Helsing 2. Who knows?
01:49:21
Speaker
Maybe I look man and we'll cover it because we've covered on the spot and we'll have to have hope back to talk about it because she joined us for the first one. So that sounds fantastic. It does sound fun. There's never going to be a Van Helsing Tuesday there. I know there's not. I know it's a shame because I think somebody now could take kind of a lesson from the original and make something that. And I think it's a little more self aware now and it would be a better
01:49:49
Speaker
a better thing. But still continue. I said this at the time, he should connect because he's immortal. He should connect with Rick and Evie from the Mummy movies with Brendan Fraser and Rachel Weiss from the Mummy movies. That's where you start your dark, dark universe. That's that's what I said. That's what I said. Hey, hey, hey, hey. When we covered the episode like three years ago, that's exactly what I said.
01:50:10
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey, Stephen, what are
Hollywood Trends and Box Office Analysis
01:50:12
Speaker
you doing here on this podcast, dude? Go get to Universal and talk to those boys right now. Tell them they don't want to hear what I have to say. I would I would give it to them straight and they don't want that. They want someone to make sense. Probably is what it is. That's it. Routing out the top 10. You've got enough said in number seven. Julie, we drive us in James Gandolfini and number eight, the fifth estate, which I think is that like Benedict Cumberbatch, Julian Assange movie. That's exactly what that is.
01:50:39
Speaker
Uh, in ninth place, something called runner runner. Um, is that Justin Timberlake? That is Justin Timberlake in that life tonight. Last thing I remember him in was that one where they, you have your life expectancy on your wrist. And that's how you pay with stuff. It's called like in time or something. And like your, your amount of time to live is like a constantly ticking clock on your wrist.
01:51:08
Speaker
And to pay for things, you can use your time to pay for things and people try to steal your time. Like it's got it's a really amazing concept. It's a fucking shitty movie. I was going to say, that sounds like one of those movies that's better in concept than in execution. High concept that like the trailers, man, I was so excited. I wouldn't saw that movie. I almost walked out of it like halfway through.
01:51:34
Speaker
But when I pay, I mean, it takes a lot for me to walk out of a movie I paid for, and I paid for that one. So the only one I've actually physically walked out of, I did not pay for, and that's the only reason I did it. I've never walked out of a movie I've paid for. And we'll talk about the movie that I came closest to doing that on this podcast one day, because it is a failed franchise starter. Oh, yeah. In 10th place, you've got James Wan's Insidious Chapter 2. Oh, hey, people like that movie. That's a good sequel.
01:52:04
Speaker
It's I haven't seen any of the other insidious movies after it, but I've seen the first two. So yeah, I think I I think I just saw the first one. It opened to about 16 million and garnered over the course of its box office run. Thirty five point three million domestic, another forty seven point one international for a grand total of about eighty two point four million worldwide.
01:52:31
Speaker
Doesn't even crack 100 million worldwide. That's off of a 30 million dollar budget, 30 million dollar budget, though. That's almost three times the budget. So I mean, but again, you're also not factoring in. What do you how do you do a sequel to Carrie? Like point in case. How the fuck do you you don't like?
01:52:50
Speaker
Come on, you can't. How do you make a sequel to that? Well, again, you go the Stephen King route. There are other people who are exhibiting these traits. You examine another part of a shared universe sort of thing like like make it. Oh, yeah. We can't have sequels to that. No, I'm saying it would be more of that than a direct sequel. It would be more of a like a universe, a world expanding sort of thing, which I think it should be.
01:53:17
Speaker
OK, I mean, particularly because I know, but that's cool. I mean, when you when you think about what Stephen King's novels are like, like he's constantly dropping references to other shit like there's. Yeah, we have reason to believe that like Carrie's dad and the girl from Firestarter are like from the same like.
01:53:37
Speaker
the center. I think it's called the central like don't those dark tower books talk about how like all that stuff happens within like the same continuity like in this huge multiverse or whatever tower episode for all that shit like we had edited you guys. It's the first one I ever edited.
01:53:55
Speaker
We had to bring in a couple of ringers for that episode because we did not understand it at all. So we brought in a couple of our friends, Mandy and Molly Gossage, who had read those books and knew them fairly well to bless them, bless them for doing all of that work for us. Bless them both. Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, this movie was not was not going to get a sequel, even if they wanted one, which again, I have no reason of thinking they didn't.
01:54:23
Speaker
I'm just saying it did OK, though. I don't think it did poorly. But even with it, it didn't make back enough of its budget to warrant a sequel because, again, they poured a lot into the marketing on this one. I'm just saying a lot of these movies that we cover on here just like did fucking horribly. Well, it didn't do bad. It didn't do great. But I mean, people made money, but they got their money back and they made a little on top. I don't know that they did. It's it's like.
01:54:52
Speaker
Like you see these reports of like these big Hollywood blockbusters that are coming out like within the past year. And it's like one of the least profitable years in Hollywood. Like we talked about it on the Flash episode in particular, right? Like that movie had to make.
01:55:07
Speaker
like 400 million to break even because of all the stuff that they put into like all the aspects of that production. But the projected budget of that movie was half of that. But to break even, they had to make twice that. So like, this is just the projected budget. So if we do that with every movie, this movie has to make at least 60 domestic to break even. It doesn't hit that number. Oh, domestic to like it doesn't do that.
01:55:35
Speaker
Like, so I think that's, I think that's the way we kind of realistically need to look at these is the return on the investment is not high enough given their perceived cost and now cost benefit analysis is not high enough for them to warrant. Hollywood math is notoriously murky because I don't think anyone really wants you to know how much money they're making.
01:55:59
Speaker
Because I think they always need to like we're gonna, I think if you want to know what's making money in Hollywood, look at what they're green lighting. Look at what they're signing off on. And I think that's the biggest way to tell. After Marvel, everyone was green lighting other superhero stuff or shared universe stuff.
01:56:16
Speaker
Or just comic book stuff in general. If you can say that it has something to do with a comic book, even if it's a Western. Well, that was after X-Men in particular, after he must not be named X-Men in particular, that was absolutely what happened. And then it was like, well, now we've got to figure out what works. You have your OGs like Men in Black. Right.
01:56:32
Speaker
But then it's the what works what doesn't. And then once we hit on Iron Man and once we hit on Avengers, like those became the bellwethers that carried us through to where we are now. And now that's starting to fumble. So what are the two biggest movies of this year? It's Barbie and it's Oppenheimer. So why are we signing off on we're signing off on Chris Nolan and we're signing off on toys.
01:56:54
Speaker
Not because Barbie is this like nuance, like high concept thing that explores like femininity and the patriarchy and all this shit. No, because it's an IP and we have similar IPs. And that's what sells. Right. Right. And that's what that's why Barbie did. We're still doing Transformers, right? Yeah. Keep pumping those out. Let's go. Right.
01:57:15
Speaker
And and this year, fuck it. They're going to cross over with G.I. Joe because do it. Who cares? Who gives a shit? And then they'll have a Barbie crossover with all of that. Right. Exactly. Like completely ruining the the original. Yes. Completely ruining anything. Shitting all over it. Any concept of art that any of these movies like Jaws 2, like worse than Jaws 2. Just take a giant dump of the art. Commerce is the enemy of art.
01:57:43
Speaker
But that's the only reason that art is able to get made is if people say there is no art without commerce, though. So like not the way it's a it's a fucked up ouroboros. But there it is. Yeah. There's been a lot of those in this podcast. Lots of snakes eating their tails tonight. I feel like I feel like that's
01:58:02
Speaker
I mean, particularly this conversation right here, like this whole money making, what is Hollywood green lighting? That's kind of the crux of this podcast is because so often Hollywood will miss the mark or misunderstand why a certain thing did well, and they'll try to copy it without understanding what it is and why it worked. And so we end up with something like this. It's a horror remake.
01:58:23
Speaker
This is 2013. Yeah, the bloom was off the rose with some of these horror remakes that were getting pumped out. But it definitely fits along a lot of those, like that starts with 2003's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Marcus Nisple. Like it fits along those same lines with a lot of those. So why not? Why not remake Carrie? That that fits. But we're not bringing enough into it to make it interesting or to make it stand out or to set it apart from what's come before.
01:58:53
Speaker
that it just kind of feels, again, very boilerplate. Performances are phenomenal, but one or two performances alone are not enough to rest the success of an entire movie on when 95% of people aren't going to movies to see performances. So yeah, well, I like I said before, 50% of this movie
01:59:15
Speaker
is a really cool adaptation of both the book and the other film. And the other half of it is just a soulless retread of what De Palma did in the original. Yeah. And it's that's what like I do like this movie, but depending on what kind of mood I'm in, like
01:59:38
Speaker
if I'm in a grumpy mood and I watch this movie, I'm going to hate this movie. Yeah, I get it because because like there's so much good stuff, but it's padded up with so much shit that's just like why is this here? Number one and number two, why is it this way? Why? Why do I all of a sudden I was in this really cool thing that felt modern.
02:00:02
Speaker
And and like a new interpretation, a modern retelling of something. And now all of a sudden, what am I doing back in the other one? What's going on? I'll tell you, I'll give you an example of a movie that I think does what you're wanting this movie to do better than this movie. It's the kind of the opposite side of the coin comes out the same year as this one. It's a movie we covered like in the first month that we had this fucking podcast ages ago.
02:00:28
Speaker
Evil Dead, the 2013 Evil Dead remake. It retreads a lot of the same ground, but in a new and interesting way brings a lot of new stuff to the table. Exactly. Brings a lot of new stuff to the table and injects so much different into it that it adds to the lore of the original, while still being its own very separate, very unique, very excellent thing.
02:00:53
Speaker
Well, that's the biggest influence on my rating is I have to think of this as a remake and as just a film on its own. Is it a good remake? No, I don't think so. Honestly, overwhelmingly. I mean, more often than it is than it is. No, it's not. Is it a good movie? Yeah, it's pretty good. I really like it. Yeah, I had fun.
02:01:19
Speaker
Not a good remake, but pretty good movie. Right. Right. And again, like shit in there. It when I was a theater director, one of the first schools that I taught at the theater director, the person who was the actual director of the program, I was the assistant, but she loved to do musicals and she would do musicals that were very popular, like.
02:01:45
Speaker
My Fair Lady or Wizard of Oz and I'm like, we're not going to do those musicals as well as those movies.
02:01:52
Speaker
If people wanna see those musicals, they can just stay home and watch those musicals and see them done a lot better than we're gonna do them. Why don't we do something unique that not everyone else is doing or has done a million times? But I always got outvoted on those. Although me and the music director did end up talking her into Into the Woods before that movie got made. So I consider that a win.
02:02:19
Speaker
Did you get to keep the full, fully erect fox penis? Of course not. No, of course not. I taught at a Christian school. The fox or a wolf? It's a wolf, right? Yeah, that's right. The big bad wolf. Okay, so I've seen the film version, but I've also seen a filmed version of the play. Same. And that wolf is just sporting just a human dick fully erect. There is a dildo literally hanging off the front of that wolf costume.
02:02:46
Speaker
Why? And a very large one as well. Just insanely large. Because so much of those original Grimm's fairy tales were about the dangers of children wandering off. And so you add that it works as both text and subtext, particularly when you listen to A, the lyrics of the song that he's singing and B, the lyrics of the song that she sings after she escapes from the wolf.
02:03:13
Speaker
Both of those are very clearly talking about innocence lost and it is in that with that added layer of context it it deepens what the play is actually about.
02:03:26
Speaker
I'm just saying, I don't know if I needed the huge erect penis to kind of drive that home. I feel like the songs do a good enough job. And like, hey, that's that's a that's a choice that the people who made that play made that are like, I stand behind that like that's fucking rad as shit. Do whatever you want to do. It's just that's not like that's. Fucking I don't get it. Hey, Tucker, you know, like great, dude, like whatever, but I don't get it.
02:03:55
Speaker
You remember 15 minutes ago when we were getting ready to end this podcast? Yeah, dude, what happened? I count on you to steer us home. You fucking derailed us so fucking hard. I would never do that. Tomatometer score on this film is 50%. Critics consensus it boasts a talented cast, but Kimberly Pierce's quote reimagining of Brian De Palma's horror classic finds little new in the Stephen King novel and feels woefully unnecessary.
02:04:22
Speaker
The meta score on this one is a 53 based on mixed or average reviews from 34 critics. And the letterbox score is a 2.5. So pretty much right down the middle, Tucker out of five stars. How are you rating 2013's Carrie? This is a 2.75 for me. Because I really, really, really want to give it a three, but I just can't.
02:04:51
Speaker
Whereas I can and did give it a three. So yeah, that's where I land. So it averages out at about three. Yeah, I'm okay with that. Yeah, it ends up being about a three. So like a three point.
02:05:07
Speaker
eat something. But that's fair. There's just a few things in this movie that as much as I'm enjoying myself, sometimes something will creep up. That's just so I'm like, what the fuck? Why? And which I've discussed many of those things in the last two hours of this podcast. One of the few things that bothered me that I didn't really bring up is like and I brought this up on the 2013 Evil Dead episode.
02:05:32
Speaker
That kind of like it was and it was really popular in horror at the time that kind of unnaturally like jerky motion thing that we added in just about every horror movie around the time. I don't care for it. I don't much like it. And Carrie was doing that toward the end when she was doing her telekinesis thing. And it kind of bugged me a little bit. But it was it was such a small part that I was able to kind of move past it fairly well. But yeah.
02:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, I do. I do like this movie. Like this movie I will watch again at some point. Like we didn't have to do a podcast on this for me to watch it sometime in the next like year or two. Like I would have watched it.
02:06:09
Speaker
Anyway, even though I've seen it like four or five times already since it came out. Right. And I'm considering maybe adding it to my collection at some point in the future, along with the I need to find a good 4K version of the original, too. But I would not mind adding both of those to my collection. So the original, because of what I said before about my mom liking it so much, I've seen it so many times over the years, it kind of pains me to say that while I still love that movie, it's one I just like I've just seen it so many fucking times, man.
02:06:39
Speaker
Like I watched it a couple years ago with Jimmy and like after we watched I was like that was great But I just don't know how many more I got in me like Which is fair, man? I mean, I'm Alabama man. I've heard it so many times. Is it wonderful? Sure, whatever but oh my gosh, I'm just I'm done with it kind of done with it. I mean I've seen it a few times like these I've I didn't get to share my carry history, but like I I
02:07:07
Speaker
I engaged with it during the pandemic and during lockdown. Like you engaged with 90% of everything you've seen in your life? Correct. At least as far as horror goes, yeah. Yeah. Engaged with it during the pandemic for the first time and didn't really think about any of the other movies in the franchise, didn't really care.
02:07:28
Speaker
earlier this week, when I remembered we were doing carry, I was like, Well, I want to watch all the carries. So so I have a place your first time to see any of them except for the first one. Correct. I think you implied that before, but I like I kind of caught on to it. But I wasn't sure if that's Yeah, no, I hadn't seen any of these since then. So now I have kind of a definitive idea.
02:07:47
Speaker
And I find it very interesting that this is one of the more adapted King properties. But again, I think it's because of the universality of the high school experience and how, while the circumstances change, the people don't. People continue to be shitty. And so because of that, art is possible. Yeah, dude. But yeah, that is the end of our episode on 2013's Carrie. It is also the end of our Stephen King miniseries.
02:08:16
Speaker
Oh, get it. Whoo. I'm I feel really bad about that guy's penis, honestly. But that is the end of our Stephen King miniseries for January next month. It will not be another miniseries, but we do have some honestly, some really fun episodes coming your way. I'm actually kind of excited. We've, of course, got our buddy Mike Snunian back for our annual Valentine's episode as well.
02:08:41
Speaker
That's going to be a treat. So keep your eyes on the social medias. Of course, if you're a patron, you get to know what we're covering at the beginning of every month. So head on over to patreon.com slash distant French pod. Pay us five bucks a month. And in addition to knowing early, you also get episodes to I want to say I would say weekly, but we all know that.
02:09:00
Speaker
the last weeks didn't drop because Tucker, but the what are we watching series that will get there before this comes out, I promise. Also, the episode of Unenfranchised that we've been discussing will drop in just a couple of days on
Podcast Wrap-Up and Listener Interaction
02:09:14
Speaker
the Rage Carry, too. So if you're a fan of that movie and not a patron, get over there. We've covered a lot. I might drop that early just because I'm really excited to get it out. I might put it out like Saturday, maybe, maybe even Friday.
02:09:31
Speaker
It's winter. No one's going out, Steven. It'll be fine. Well, it's supposed to be warming up next weekend, at least here here in the Midwest. It is. So. Well, yo, you're not wrong, though. Next month is stacked like it starts off kind of weak sauce. But like once you get to the middle, man, it don't stop.
02:09:50
Speaker
Yeah. And then and then we head into March. And honestly, I'm very excited about what we got playing for March. It's pretty exciting, too, for a lot of reasons. And then we've got another theme month coming up in April, a sequel theme month to one we've done before. Hmm. Dude, look, remember the hell you put me through at the end of last year with all those cartoon movies and all those shitty movies you made me watch? It was like two months there where like it was pretty consistently shitty movies and like I just wanted to punch myself in the face.
02:10:18
Speaker
the entire time, but you know what, Steven? You've got, this is good. I like this. The next three months, way into it, way fucking into it. We honestly do have some really great stuff. We've got a few really good guests planned, some news, some returning. So just, I mean, just buckle up, guys, because we do have a lot of fun stuff heading your way. In the meantime,
02:10:47
Speaker
time. You can find us on social media. You can find us at disenfranch pod on blue sky, Instagram, letterboxed and Facebook, also YouTube as well. Please give us a follow over there. Watch all of our episodes on YouTube. Tucker's working on getting us into YouTube music. He's going to look into that this week. Maybe that'll happen by the time this episode drops. Maybe it won't.
02:11:10
Speaker
Uh, you'll just have to wait and find out. Um, and that, cause I didn't realize until like two days before they shut down, um, YouTube or they shut down Google podcasts. Yeah. I didn't know anything about that till like two days before it happened. So sorry. If I had known about it in advance, I would have, we'd already be there. Like.
02:11:29
Speaker
Right. We're getting there. Yeah, I'm working on it. We're getting there. It's going to be rad. Like Joe says that it's fucking rad. So like I'm excited to do it. He swears by it. Yeah, he's really excited about it. That is a friend of the show, JP Lick. You can also hit us up on email. Disenfranchpod at gmail.com. What?
02:11:48
Speaker
What films failed franchise starters, would you like to hear us cover in the future? What are, you know, you can just write us and say hi, introduce yourself. What's your favorite Carrie movie? Yeah, what, what is your favorite Carrie movie is, disenfranchpod at gmail.com. Again, is that address. I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy. You can find me on Instagram, letterboxed and
02:12:09
Speaker
Blue Sky at Chewy Walrus. The absent Brett Wright can be found on Blue Sky Instagram and Letterbox at sus underscore Warlock. I think it's just sus Warlock on Blue Sky. Tucker, where can we find you these days? I'm on the YouTube and the Instagrams at ice dino nine. That's I C E N I N E the number zero and the number nine. Also, Tux mugs is still going on. It is.
02:12:40
Speaker
I think the schedule that I'd like to stick with moving forward would be a post every two weeks. Okay. I'd like to do more, honestly, and at some point, that might be possible. But it's gonna have to grow for that to happen. Understood. It's like those YouTubers, man.
02:13:04
Speaker
you gotta put work into it and you can't just like if you have a full-time job, like unless you get enough going on to where it can be your full-time job, you just gotta wait for that shit to drop. That's it.
02:13:19
Speaker
And we ain't making that much right now. So, yeah. Sponsors are not rolling in, surprisingly, are not tragic. No, she forgot to mention the page, but I feel like Tina Fey endorsed us the other night. Talking about her scary mug. Yeah, yeah. I feel like if she knew about tuck mugs, she'd sort of fall the fuck out of it for sure.
02:13:46
Speaker
I feel like maybe you should you should reach out to her on on the internet. Well, I feel like I know you we know you have some success with getting in contact with celebrities on the internet. So not the director of the Rage Carry 2, unfortunately, because I got to find out why that motherfucker was filmed in 43. I mean, please, I need your cat yelling at you, man. Mr. I gots to know.
02:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, she still has. She's still a straight up not said anything. Honestly, though, I don't think she's been on Instagram for a while. Like the last thing she posted was in October of last year. So come on, Kat Shay. I got to talk to you, dude. I got to know why I was at four three. Why?
02:14:30
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe when we cover her Nancy Drew movie with Sophia Lillis, she'll we can try to reach out to her again and you can get the question. Like how weird is it? Nobody's ever done that. No one's ever noticed that before. Do you think anybody in the history of that film has ever done what I did yesterday? I don't think anyone else but you cares enough to do what you did. That's partially what I'm saying. So no one else has no I guarantee you no one else has noticed this.
02:14:57
Speaker
I feel like I'm on, I just, I need resolution to it because like, it's not every day that you're the first person to notice or think of something. Doesn't happen every day. Rarely happens. Some people go entire, their entire lives and never have an original fucking thought or discovery, but your boy found that shit. And so I gotta, I gotta know, man.
02:15:21
Speaker
Anyway, yeah, tuck mugs tuck underscore mugs on Instagram. Like we try and look at some mugs on the Internet. Tuck mugs is the spot. There you go. That's it. And so that is all we've got. Join us next week. Again, we're kicking off a great run of episodes next week. So join us then.
02:15:42
Speaker
Sorry, go ahead. Until next time, this has been the disenfranchised podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy for Tucker in the absent Brett Wright. Until next time. Remember, they're all going to laugh at you. Hey, plug it up, would you?
02:16:12
Speaker
you