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19: Czech UFOs and Project Záře (Project Glow)
174 Plays3 months ago
In this episode, I speak with Martin Chlebovský, a veteran ufologist and leading member of Project Záře (Project Glow) in the Czech Republic. We delve into the often-overlooked region of Central Europe in UFO research, exploring Martin's early fascination with UFOs that began in the 1970s.
Our discussion traces the evolution of UFO research in the Czech Republic, from its clandestine beginnings under the communist regime to the post-Velvet Revolution era, where newfound freedoms allowed researchers to organize and publish their findings. Martin shares insights into the methodologies employed by Project Glow, which investigated not only UFO sightings but also poltergeist phenomena, spontaneous human combustion, and other unexplained mysteries.
We also highlight a small but compelling percentage of cases that defy conventional explanation. Whether you're a seasoned UFO enthusiast or new to the field, this episode is packed with intriguing stories from a region rarely featured in mainstream UFO discourse.
Project Záře: http://www.projektzare.cz/
Final report of Project Záře: http://www.projektzare.cz/co-je-projekt-zare/
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Transcript
Introduction and Call to Action
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to European UFOs. I'm your host Sebastian and as always if you enjoyed this episode don't forget to leave a review and share it on social media. It's your support that helps the show grow and reach more listeners.
00:00:29
Speaker
Also, if you want to support me in keeping the show out free, then please go to buymeacoffee.com. I truly appreciate all contributions.
Exploring UFO Research in Central Europe with Martin Khabowski
00:00:40
Speaker
Today, we're exploring an often overlooked region in European ufology, Central Europe. Specifically, we'll be delving into UFO research in the Czech Republic, guided by our esteemed guest, Martin Khabowski.
00:00:54
Speaker
Martin is a veteran ufologist and one of the leading members of Project BLOW, a Czech research initiative that spent 30 years investigating anomalous phenomena. In this episode, Martin shares the story of his early fascination with UFOs, which began in the 1970s. He walks us through the evolution of UFO research in its country, from its clandestine beginnings under the Communist regime to the post-Velvet Revolution era, and when newfound freedoms allowed researchers to organise and publish findings.
Project GLOW: Beyond UFO Sightings
00:01:27
Speaker
We also discussed the methodologies employed by Project GLOW and its broader scope, which included not just UFO sightings but also poltergeist phenomena, spontaneous human combustion and other unexplained mysteries. Martin provides valuable insights into the project's findings, including a small but compelling percentage of cases that defy conventional explanation.
00:01:51
Speaker
Whether you're a seasoned UFO enthusiast or new to the field, this episode is packed with intriguing stories from a region rarely featured in mainstream UFO discourse. So thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy this episode. Hello, Martin. Lovely to have you on today. How are you doing? Hello, Sebastian. Thank you very much for inviting me to your podcast and glad to be with you and with your listeners and maybe share something about the UFO research in the Czech Republic, what we've done in Project Zaja, so Project Go has been translated into English.
Khabowski's Early Fascination with UFOs
00:02:32
Speaker
Perfect, Jan, very much looking forward to this. um To begin with, could you tell us how you personally got interested in UFOs and what motivated you to devote several years of research into this phenomenon? Okay, so maybe it's a bit
00:02:49
Speaker
longer story because I'm not ah too young anymore. I was born actually in 1966 and that was the time when the whole things started to be more popular in Europe and in the US as well because quite many books start to be published on the on the subject.
00:03:10
Speaker
ah new theories like Erich von Demikan from Switzerland came with this archival, astronautical theories and so on. And even that time when it was quite difficult in ah in Czechoslovakia, that time, because at the end of the 60s, probably there was ah this Soviet invasion because there was some kind of a democratic process, not not too strictly ah everything under communist control at the time, but Czechoslovakia had some some tendencies to to put more Democrats into everyday's lives.
00:03:45
Speaker
So it has some consequence consequences that the censorship was not so strict at the moment. So some books from from Western countries was allowed to to be translated and published in in Czechoslovakia as well. But in 1968, of course, it has changed. Not, of course, overnight. It was some kind of process that some things was still ah continuing after that until the beginning of the 70s. So some some movies, some some books were still ah published and accessible for public from Czechoslovakia. And then in so-called normalization, um it was quite difficult to get any reliable information from from ah capitalist so-called Western countries.
00:04:40
Speaker
But at the time, there were also quite many persons in ah in Czechoslovakia who started to publish books.
00:04:51
Speaker
and It was quite funny that some of them was connected to communist party that was because of their career or a possibility to to continue the career in like a journalist or whatever. So they have to demonstrate some loyalty to this her you new regime or new strict communist regime.
00:05:16
Speaker
And by the way, these books was quite perfectly written and with the reliable or interesting information. And that's the point when I learned to learn, learned to read. So visiting basic school and my parents has some good library at home and some books was also on on the subject of of UFOs and mysteries or enochmas in general.
00:05:45
Speaker
So i I read some of them and it attract my curiosity. And of course I was curious child. So not only by these books, but I was by my own naturality.
00:06:03
Speaker
interesting about everything, what was the time in the science and technology. So it was the time when Americans start to landing on the moon. So I was, I remember that the we had the old, old black and white ah TV receiver and and Neil Armstrong was landing or walking on the moon so it it was also one one moment i I was thinking that that's the way this exploration of new worlds of space is is something what I want to be part of it. Of course then in 70s some new things happens in in space research so there was
00:06:52
Speaker
If you remember, first Soviet-American command flights, Soyuz Apple, so it was in the mid-70s, and it was a huge popularity in Czechoslovakia for those who were interested in these things. First Czechoslovakian cosmonaut was took by Soviets to the orbital station. Technology, so first computers, of course the Internet was not there, but We start to learn some simple programming in the school and that was the also part of my interest. But of course, all things which was not easily explainable attract my curiosity and focus. And then I start to to read more. So i I was influenced. I have to admit with with the theories of Eric van Denneken, which looked ah for me very
00:07:48
Speaker
very very consistent at the moment there was chariots of the gods book available in Czechoslovakia at the time and even the movie which was filmed according the book was so was available in in Sanmas for for some time so that was nice to see and I so subscribe Somehow, I don't i do i don't remember ah how I find the the address or whatever, but I subscribe some of these monthly letters or B monthly letters of this. Arco-Astronautical Society was was the name of of this. so And there was quite ah interesting information published not only by Eric Fondevica and barakga by also by Sakharia Sitkin and others out also.
00:08:41
Speaker
it was It was quite interesting. And, of course, science fiction literature at the time. um I also have to mention check authors like Ludwig Sowcheck. I don't know. He's probably not known outside Czechoslovakia. But he was so writing think perfectly science fiction books in the 60s.
00:09:08
Speaker
ah There was a trilogy of books which was named a part of Blind Birds. I don't know if it is correct English name but probably it was never published in English so there is just a rough translation. This was written in in the style of documentary that when I was a child I was even believing that it is true and it was that the It was something like, at the beginning, was a sequel of Wernes, traveling into the center of the air for, what's the And in in this book from Ludwig Sötschen, they started to investigate some caves on Iceland. They find some some strange signs of blind ah beds inside the caves. And then there was quite a
00:10:05
Speaker
history of finding Vikings in America, and then some extraterrestrial took them to Mars, and so on, so that some international spaceflight went to Mars to to explain this part of the mystery. And the way of how it was written, I was believing it. But by the way, when we saw it was also ah very good in collecting the data and getting facts together from ah um from abroad. So here is a huge, let's say, cartotec at that moment. And write also non-fiction summaries of different theories, also concerning this UAP area. So there is a known series of
00:11:04
Speaker
pattern. So ah there was published two books and theoretically, or according some, some rumors, there was even a third, third part written, but the somehow Mr. Josef was lost when he
Involvement in Project GLOW and Post-Velvet Revolution Shift
00:11:24
Speaker
died. So maybe there was some more explanation. But then there was the thing in the beginning, which somehow influenced my, my interest for the future.
00:11:34
Speaker
Then I study grammar school, university, I am my professional IT specialist, now working closely as project manager. But do you think interest for this animal's phenomenon was there always? And in one point i I said, okay, so because I'm not living in Prague, so most activities are always uh, always centralized in some, some capital area or the people are, I'm living in, uh, uh, Moravian, Salesian, the region, you know, Strava. So I decided, okay, I will try to contact these persons in Prague. And, uh, there was already project, global project, global exotic running for some time. And, okay. And they said, okay, so we will be glad that you will join us. So I was then ah more than 20 years.
00:12:30
Speaker
participating in go on the project grow ah what Great. So I think it's really important to emphasize probably the shift between ah what happened prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain and afterwards. Could you give us an idea of the general atmosphere in the early 1990s in the Czech Republic and how this relates to um UFO research?
00:13:03
Speaker
Well, the atmosphere during the communist period. So as I said, so in the end of sixties, there was some, some kind of democratization process. And now, uh, after the heavy fifties from the communist perspective, so the sixties was, uh, more, more free, but after Soviet invasion, of course, the situations started to be returned to, to heavy communist, uh, regime.
00:13:30
Speaker
So this was called from communist party as a normalization process. So of course it was a normalization and it was difficult to what what was not under communist regime control, simply it was not allowed. So if you want to set an organization, of course, I'm not saying it was absolutely impossible, but who want to do something like that must do it on some smart way.
00:14:00
Speaker
to to set some communist control on that. yeah And of course, who want to do things this way? So there was no no free organization link doing this thing. So you can do it in some conspiracy way, just unofficial. Maybe you can, ah you can of course, meet your friends, set them up, drink a beer and discuss discuss things which are interesting for you. Of course, you have to Be a bit careful who is listening, but that's that's the normal normal problem of all non-democratic regimes. But as I said, there were still a few very good authors and journalists
00:14:51
Speaker
publishing in especially big centralized newspapers at the time, there was no communism, of course not only only some wisdom literature or ah there was some enthusiasm who was just on typewriter machines, rewriting some books in ah in some conspiracy way and then others just copying again and again for others and others and and that that was also the way why, how information could spread. But if I would mention some some persons and some books from that era in the 70s, especially, as I said, Ludwig Sowczyk for sure, perfect science fiction writer and also this nonfiction fiction literature. But who I would mention as a main influence and um main source for information
00:15:48
Speaker
for me that moment was the ancestor of Patrovsky. His profession was chemistry. he was he Even I think he he owned some some patents for for peer producing something. ah But he he published a book which was so called the Mysteries of Flying Saucers and it was perfect the let's say collection of all ah main main incidents or events which has happened in that field in one book. So let's say state of the art for Czechoslovakia readers at that time. And I have this book ah still with me and still after this 50 years, so let's say.
00:16:42
Speaker
it's a good ah good source of information. And can I just ask, so um back then during the communist regime that these works have to go through some sort of approval censorship or how how can we imagine this? Yeah, so everything basically which was so initiated and was there more and than one person involved in that, so it somehow needs some some approval from the communist regime. So if you want to set some organization or so so club or whatever where you want to discuss some topic, so it was difficult to do it without any any agreement or approval from from communist regime or or offices which were of course under commun communist control.
00:17:32
Speaker
The same with if you want to write an article into newspaper or books, so everything was censored and approved or non-approved to be published. And then we enter the early 1990s. The world has changed dramatically and um it is also during this time that a project glow in the universe. So um can you tell us a bit about that and how it was initially conceived?
00:18:02
Speaker
Well, so of course, that was very enthusiastic time, let's say, because now communist regime ah went to the history suddenly. I think that it was not expected that it will move so quickly at the age of 80. So it started in ah in in Germany with the Berlin Wall suddenly destroyed. And then, of course, in Poland and Hungary, that they had this democratization process running for some time. In the in Soviet Union, Gorbachev was ruling, and he was not willing that in case that something will happen in his satellite's country, that he will ah use the army again to to set
00:18:56
Speaker
back the communist, the hard communist regime. So of course in Czechoslovakia we were not so... leader leadership of this communist party was not so friendly to these democratic processes running around because in age level there was this hard communist members ah remembering still communist revolution, a revolution just after the war.
00:19:26
Speaker
So in the late 40s, let's say, so they don't want to do any changes what they have. And then, therefore, it was quite sudden changes and quite quick changes. So this is so-called the government revolution in Czechoslovakia. And of course, after that, people get some freedom and freedom to decide about their own lives.
00:19:54
Speaker
where to work, how to work, how to get money to start running on businesses and so on. And of course, the the freedom to to access any kind of information. And of course, we are still talking about the period when internet was not so so common on at the end of the 80s and beginning of the 90s. So that was the communication tool. It was just a normal ah telephone, a landline telephone.
00:20:25
Speaker
maybe fax and even even this telex ma machine if you remember so ah yeah I actually do yeah yeah so the important them was the freedom so you you can start ah build your relationship with other people according your interests, so set formal or informal organizations according your wish and have a freedom to publish whatever information you want. So there was, let's say, kind of hunger for for this kind of living to to put ah people to to different
00:21:17
Speaker
clubs or organization according to their interests. And the first organization, which was set, I think, directly after this changes, so in the beginning of the 90s, I think it was ah exactly 1990, there was Czech Mirror Organization to this Eric Fordenikans Archaol Astronautical Society.
00:21:45
Speaker
So it was Czechoslovak, archaeological society, which start to, of course, not focusing only on this archaeological mysteries and and proofs from from history ah historical civilization like this Egyptian pyramids or whatever, but have the more wider scope also with nowadays UFOs and these things.
00:22:12
Speaker
But they were just discussing and taking facts from other sources. And inside this organization was a group of people who said, OK, we have to start, collect, and systematically systematicallyically collect and systematically analyze all the information inside our country and to try to get some some rational explanation what it is. So something like Project Blue Book in in the United States in in the 60s. So that was a great inspiration for for the project role, which was starting to to be set inside this Czechoslovakian-Astro-Arco-Astronautical Society. And yeah the people said, OK, so we will start work systematically to collect kind of observation from from people publicly.
00:23:12
Speaker
And we would like to set some cooperation with the military and government because we believe that they probably have some better tools to so observe these kind of things and maybe they they are documented. So in the beginning also this this channels to Czechoslovakia, then Czech army after Czechoslovakia was divided into Czech Republic
Challenges and Achievements of Project GLOW
00:23:41
Speaker
and Slovakia. So it was I think already in Czech Republic. So Czech army said the yes, because of course they they they need also to somehow after this communist period to improve
00:23:57
Speaker
their public perception perception so they they decide okay we will cooperate with you and we will give you any data of what we have of course they don't have any data from the past according at least what they said but the in the beginning of 19 there was a couple of cases that the army was involved to chasing some some objects in airspace and they they gave data of this to to project role but that was I think just one or two cases and after that silently they somehow
00:24:40
Speaker
stopped the cooperation. Of course, never officially stopped, but it somehow died. Interestingly, actually it's more or less the same in ah Germany, so in the West of Germany, whatever happened in the past with UFOs has probably now archived somewhere with the United States or the UK, whereas in the former GDR it's somewhere in Russia now. So there's just this lack of um data due to the, um you know, immediate ah Cold War past. on I suppose it's the same in Czechoslovakia.
00:25:15
Speaker
now No, interesting. and um So how did you then, so so the project then emerged in the early 90s? I think it was 1992. Is that correct? when It was established in 1992 exactly. And I think this project, so maybe you know from the project management and project list some effort which has some certain start and have some some objectives and when the objectives are fulfilled, so the project usually ends, or it can even end sooner and than it is impossible to to reach objectives. But now this project was running for 30 years, exactly. So in in some certain moment, we decided, okay, we but probably fulfilled our goals or objectives, which was set, and we have enough data but for ah collecting during these 30 years.
00:26:12
Speaker
that we can somehow say, okay, so that's enough, we can close the project and we ah we published a final report of the project. It's quite excellent material, 80 pages and plus some or some attachments. By the way, an off option is just only in Czech language, but I think that with current machine translating tools and AI tools,
00:26:42
Speaker
It's ah not necessary to to do some manual translation, so this interesting can get information from that with the with the help of these tools. But really perfectly summarizing all the if you look carefully inside, so you can explain by natural things like ah natural phenomena techniques like planes or orbital devices or whatever. ah But still, in our case, it was 3.7% of cases, all cases what we what we have in our database. We have good enough information like several testimonies, several
00:27:42
Speaker
several witnesses ah for the same for the same phenomena, phenomena but no no reasonable explanation came to our mind, so still left um unexplained.
00:27:57
Speaker
And if I'm not mistaken, you followed the original Project Blue Book classification, right? into ah More or less, I'm not sure what was, of course, what what classification you mean. Of course, yeah there there are this, ah okay, so you have UFO, could be daylight disk, or nocturnal light, or this kind of classification, this close encounters, first, second, third kind.
00:28:27
Speaker
And so on so a radar visual observation that of course that we followed so that I think it was sent by Joseph Alan Heineck in blue book and and by the way when we are talking about the Czech oophology Joseph Heineck is Czech origin or was Czech origin. So his his parents came from from Czechoslovakia and he he was grown in the in Chicago, so which was american city with ah quite a huge Czech or Czechoslovakia migraines at that ah time yeah so that that follows his his classification but at the end we have three categories how we can end the analyzing of the of of the observation or of the of the case so if we have good enough
00:29:25
Speaker
proofs and information was on the quality that we can decide it is for sure like I don't know nowadays it is quite often starlink train so satellite train or whatever that there are always some periods that something is new on the sky but the people don't know it so they are they are reporting UFOs but it could be like Chinese ladders flying It was in some period that that was a period of this discotheque lights or this projection to the sky. So there was new devices so which was used into commercial swear for this discotheque or amusements. And it was known some satellites or iridium flares. Sometimes it was quite funny that you can predict it from the internet ma where and when.
00:30:20
Speaker
So that was my magician trick that sitting somewhere outside with with friends and I said, okay, so look there, two minutes and there will be my friend extraterrestrial being ah putting light to us. And they said, no, no, it's impossible. Look there, look there, just under the street.
00:30:44
Speaker
or above this tree. And exactly at the time, some of this iridium flare beamed some and there was and so that that how you can explain the UFOs and if if you have this kind of explanation, so you can ah assign a certain category. So that that was for us category A. It was like ah half of all reported cases.
00:31:15
Speaker
Second, almost the whole second lie a half of the the kind of the of the cases ended as category B because it was some ah information quality board ah report that was impossible to decide what is it. It could be basically anything from the star, a bright star somewhere with a scintillation. so you notice this effect when it is near to horizontal and it's like changing the intensity or you have a impression that it is moving a bit or whatever. So it could be this kind of plane or whatever. So the information was so uncertain and vague that it was impossible to even say it could be this or
00:32:11
Speaker
it is not explainable. it It would be explainable, but information was not sufficient to explain it. And of course then was this most, where we were most interesting, this category C as an end result of our research that we have cases that we have enough information, reliable information,
00:32:35
Speaker
But it was impossible to say, OK, this natural phenomena like tar or bright bright star or planet or ah or some meteorological phenomena or whatever, or some some human device flying over something.
Investigating Poltergeists and Other Phenomena
00:32:53
Speaker
yeah So that's the that that that was the most interesting. And still we have about this, as I said, 3.7% of the cases. so during During this 30 years, we we had in our database in the UFO category category about four and a half ah thousand cases altogether collected during this 30 years. But it doesn't mean that we were ah focusing only on events so which has happened during this 30 years. Of course, we have even older cases we put there.
00:33:34
Speaker
the The oldest one, by the way, is from the year 1130. So it is from very medieval chronicle, described some kind of serpent flying over the sky in this year. But the now when I read it, so it could be something like ah aurora borealis or something like that, which is not common in in Central Europe, of course.
00:34:03
Speaker
but it's described and for the time it was UFO. yeah Of course they were not describing us UFO, they they were influenced by by current Christian religion and so they have some some other description as a sign of something here.
00:34:20
Speaker
And um one thing I found particularly intriguing about Project Glow when I was familiarizing myself with it is that you didn't exclusively focus on UFOs, but also on attendant phenomena like poltergeist and all these sorts of um things. And to my mind, that is a really unique approach. I mean, if I think of other um UFO research groups, I can't think of any that really have this ah broad approach. So could you give us some insights into what what prompted that? It's really interesting. Yeah, so we somehow wider the UFOs to some other
00:35:08
Speaker
animals things or animals phenomena's You are right. So this photo guys, so this ah this kind of animal sounds or whatever animals Behaving of things we have several several cases in our database even very good documented that in in some house in ah South bohemia ah the strange things start to happen that the parts of furniture start to move, falling down suddenly, windows are being destroyed, doors and so on. And the the interesting thing on this case is that there was a fire guard called to to provide a technical help to inhabitants of the house, something has happened.
00:36:02
Speaker
they can and then them they provide the direct testimony that the it's not not just that the inhabitants will tell you, okay, I'm living in a scary house because half things are doing, but they came to the place to to provide technical help and they saw that doors are jumping outside the pumps, falling down and and so on. So they were they scared as a professional to to be there. So that's that's interesting. yeah Other things are which we have been investigating, of course, ahar operations in the Christian world. So there is many this operation of Lady Mary and similar things.
00:36:57
Speaker
but it could be more general things that even it is somehow very close to to close encounters ah that you for instance sleep and someone is visiting your bedroom and try to communicate with you and the question is this this is really what is very very subjective and not very few cable testimonies that the how how it really happened or to was it real or just ah some process in your in your brain or in your mind projecting something something inside you so but we collect some evidence about this as well so we have it in our database and the what was interesting so i don't know if you
00:37:47
Speaker
even had about spontaneous human combustion. Yes, indeed. yeah yeah very It's it's ah interesting but also very ah strange ah set of phenomena. Yeah, yeah because so it is known from literature and we very interesting. Okay, we started some cooperation with with fire guards on the level, so there there are gave us some some materials, I think unofficially, of course, about some suspected cases where where it was not very obvious how if if there was some fire somewhere that or they found someone that was dead because of some fire damage damages and injuries.
00:38:40
Speaker
And how how, what was the mechanism? How the how the fire was set? It was not not known. So it it looks like that it came from inside the person in some cases. And we tried to as well by experiment with with some pork meat. ah what What could be the mechanism of burning in that case? So if the if the fat in the in the human body which is similar to the fat in in pork or pig body can be sufficient to to keep burning in some cases and so on our but the experiment was not
00:39:26
Speaker
not proving it to 100% some income. In some cases, it could be with some very specific conditions like ah how how the air is so is is flowing or moving inside or outside the building and so on. But we don't have any and they bullet proof or evidence to so say, yes, it is it it could be this this kind of thing.
00:39:57
Speaker
And would you say that um these different categories you then analyzed, they are more of a heuristic sort of nature? So artificially taking one big phenomenon and, um you know, dividing it into different pieces? Or would you say they are really distinct?
00:40:22
Speaker
I would say and rather distinct. So I think that I don't see that could be one general root cause of this of these cases. There are for sure quite many. They don't have any any specific root
Geomagnetic Influences on UFO Sightings?
00:40:39
Speaker
cause. And some of them, if if you if you look to UFO categories, for instance, maybe it's a good example to to see what could be the root cause for for us different sightings, for instance. There are sightings.
00:40:56
Speaker
which are quite close to some natural phenomena like this shining balls or something. So ball or this kind of object is very natural. So it doesn't ah remain anything which would be technical device or human produced device. So it could like these ball lightnings or these things. And interesting is that these shining balls could be different sizes. So from very small like tennis or even ping pong ball to size of several meters or whatever shining different kind of colors.
00:41:53
Speaker
and so on but what is interesting when we looked to to cases which mostly is in our database ending with the category C so not explainable at the moment and we we tried to look to the date and time when it happened and we had some database or or numbers of or or record records of kp index this index is so kp is about geomagnetic field intensity so in quite many surprisingly quite many cases in this in this cases so where this ah balls or shining balls was observed
00:42:46
Speaker
ah This KP index shows that there was a geomagnetical storm at the moment. So the geomagnetical field of the air was somehow corrupted.
00:43:00
Speaker
and And I think that's, um I listened to one of your presentations and I find this potential correlation between the um geomagnetic field index and um UAP cases really interesting. I think that's, it's it's something that deserves further attention. I know folks over at um Project Hestal and they're doing lots of great work on um analyzing different um sorts of parameters and index and index variables, so um they're very interesting to see you that. Is this um geomagnetic ah field index, is that a global um index or is it regionally specific? It's a global index, so it's it's the same the for the whole, valid for the whole R5 itself.
00:43:52
Speaker
And then so there are there are a few cases or rather a certain percentage where there is um indication of a geomagnetic storm and um correlated with the shining balls. At least to we found, I think, around five cases in our database. and And interesting is that these cases are not something like showing that it is some some intelligent or technical object, but really this close, most, which are close to like a natural of phenomena, like this shining balls just occurring somewhere and people are seeing the balls and saying, so it's like this Aurora Bonaire is something which you will not expect, but of course it is this different phenomena, but it it it shows that could be some relation
00:44:48
Speaker
between ah this observation and these things which are occurring suddenly and the geomagnetical field.
Significant Sightings and Military Involvement
00:44:55
Speaker
And as a geomagnetical field, does there have any influence on human ah cognition, human psychology potentially? I don't know. like it Could be, of course, who knows, because I don't know if there are any and me research on that field, if someone or butter could be could be the next story as well. So hypothesis. I mean, ah looking at the time, we've already um talked for quite a bit. So I think um for the next 10 minutes or so, I'd like to if we could focus a bit on a couple of um case studies and in the um UFO category and um one that whilst I was going through your um presentation, I found really intriguing was the
00:45:48
Speaker
Czech Siberia ah wave of sightings in 1991. I suppose it was in July when weird things started transpiring in that area of the um Czech Republic. So could you perhaps talk a bit about that? Yeah, like I can. But the I think that this Czech Siberia series of observations It's quite close what we are, what we were talking just now was that that's one of the cases that the geomagnetical field was on the high level or or the corruption of the field. So this geomagnetical storm and that period was in indicated by this KPI, KP index. And it was interesting because it's a very old case and it attract also at that time
00:46:43
Speaker
ah some some media, so it was in in the Czech television. There was some reportage put on that and there was some direct witnesses talking what they saw. But than not only the balls, but the some of them were talking about seeing some pair zones with some strange Suits like scuff hunters sort of And some smaller like dogs. So looks like ah small robot robots or whatever. So, uh, that was uh, that was interesting, butpa but Project glow, uh and with great help of colleague of us uh and journalist, uh came to to this uh case again after I don't know 30 years maybe
00:47:35
Speaker
ah visit to the place and try to interview some witnesses again. What they probably the persons who was there in the team on the field investigation. that selfmarish So they they get some new witness testimonies. But what was interesting that there was something like scared to talk about these things. yeah So maybe because of this stigmatization, as as you said in the beginning, that there is still some stigmatization to to talk about the things, but maybe also some influence of local and the Catholic Church, who knows.
00:48:27
Speaker
But this one, I would say, is more or less, of course, is at the moment unexplained. But I would say this one is originated from the nature. There probably will be nothing from other countries, secret military devices or techniques or whatever, or extraterrestrials,
00:48:57
Speaker
whoever. But I think the more interesting case what we have in our database is incident from Vranovna D. ah de de It's a river, so in German, Staya. And it's a salt moravia, and there is Vranov. Vranov is a place where is a dam ah on this on this river. And it was in 1987, July 12,
00:49:27
Speaker
And what happened? So it was during the communist period, so there was still iron curtain between Austria and Czechoslovakia. And of course, Austria was a neutral country, but nevertheless, it was a capitalist country. So it was a good guy, a good follower of the border.
00:49:52
Speaker
by militaries on our side and they saw on radar that something is flying near to the border between Austria and Czechoslovakia. So coding the radar they thought that could be probably some small plane or or something like that probably lost orientation or whatever. So they sent a helicopter, a military helicopter, to find this object and send it back or or force it to land in Czechoslovakia or whatever. So they they have some procedure for that cases. And so the military helicopter start to to meet this object coming from from Austria. This was visible on the radar all the time, but not visible for the pilots and from the beginning or for the crew of um the helicopter. So they were listening to
00:50:50
Speaker
to land control, who was seeing the radar, and they were saying, okay, it's left to you, 30 degrees or something, a bit upper than you, so look there, or climb to higher level, and so on. And there was so much everything, and it was just above this realm of them.
00:51:15
Speaker
and then they sold objects suddenly so it was a silver cigar shaped object about 10 or 15 meters long and very cleverly maneuvering that if they are they were chasing it and if was already to in position to so to to do some ah some actions like shooting or whatever. So they maneuver again very quickly, changing direction to sides, left, right, up, down, and um positional positioning itself to be in the sun. So the the crew from the helicopter, it was difficult to see anything against the sun at the moment. So it was covering, maneuvering,
00:52:05
Speaker
Funny is that at that time, so they were chasing, I don't know, 30 minutes. I moved to them and then a the military gave the order, shoot down this object. Okay. That was strange. And luckily,
00:52:28
Speaker
luckily the crew didn't listen to the order because they were quite scared that downstairs, And the ground of dam was full of people because it is a recreation area. So they were swimming, fishing. It was so already school ah vacation during July. So people were spending holidays there and so on. So there was clever enough not to shoot there. And then then they were trying to chase the object, double object flew.
00:53:04
Speaker
Then continue to flow and the direction was to there was a nuclear plant to Kovani flow over there continued to Slovakia and then it was another nuclear plant in the house of stable units and then to Hungary probably then back to Austria so Quite common things is that in some other cases from end of 70s to 80s and even ah later, but there are some some objects which have this ah so cigar shape, looks cigar shaped. They are without any visible windows, any visible kind of ah engines, so how how they are moving very,
00:53:55
Speaker
advanced way of maneuvering, so all kinds of to to to direction, changing speed quickly from even zero to several Mach speed. And similar similar cases was documented in Poland in 1983.
00:54:20
Speaker
Italy, there there was even in Treviso, there is a case when the similar object was so photographed by by a pilot of the of the military plane. And of course, Tiktok incident in Prince of town, USS ship in 2004 is maybe the similar kind. So that's ah that's so very interesting that we had to similar similar sightings also in Czech Republic. And
00:54:52
Speaker
Another common thing is that this this kind of devices are interesting about these nuclear ah nuclear facilities. So according to the trajectory, how the flow, so at least two nuclear plants in the Czechoslovakia, there was only two nuclear plants and both was on um the flight path of this.
00:55:18
Speaker
ah Are there more cases where ah UFOs in the Czech Republic showed interest in these nuclear plants? not in this drunk evidence as it is one Yeah, and I suppose also because of the Soviet regime would have probably been difficult to get the data um of those cases.
Project GLOW's Legacy and Future of UFO Research
00:55:39
Speaker
with with With this particular case, given that ah um it's from 1987, which um is but quite a long time ago, but not like Roswell, for instance. So was it possible to interview the helicopter pilots? Are they still alive? or
00:55:56
Speaker
Yeah, but there are interviews and quite recent interviews and I think that it is so it is Quite under still under Great interest from many filmmakers and the document filmmakers From our community. So we are self-marriage also was preparing some some document and they have some ah interviews with pilots and or the crew of the helicopter and it is on his YouTube channel available. And I think even, ah I don't know, it was National Geography or or Netflix probably had some series of of some UAP cases and one one of them was also this containing information about this citizen incident as well.
00:56:48
Speaker
Lovely. um I think um it would make a lot of sense for our audience um if you're interested to check out the final report of Project Glow, which you said has been, is available on the internet. So now we'll put the link to this in the description of this episode.
00:57:07
Speaker
I myself had a go at it with um the help of various AI tools. And as you said, it's it's a great it's a great way to understand the data and you know the despite the language barriers. So I really um suggest checking checking that one out if you're interested to learn more about um the nitty-gritty details of these um cases.
00:57:31
Speaker
um By way of concluding, ah what is next for Czech ufology? Because project Glow, if I'm not mistaken, officially ended in 2022.
00:57:44
Speaker
yeah twenty two ah So what's what's currently happening? Currently the situation is such that project ended because it was project, so the work was finished. But of course there is a team ah who was working on the project. So we are calling it team of project close. And the team is still working because we are interesting about these things. But we we don't have any project the specific projects. So we are still collecting observations or um testimonies from
00:58:21
Speaker
from an anyone, so our formula to to report sightings is still active on our pages and we are somehow ah working with that, but not the systematic way as we were doing for this 30 years so with the active project. And the future is that we would like to somehow integrate with other Europeans' initiatives and work on some oh whole European ah database or reporting tools of this incident and perhaps also so somehow help ah to promote this problematic inside Europe to to some ah politician top level to to get some ah attraction and interest to that to to try to really investigate and really explain what's going on in some cases like it is now
00:59:21
Speaker
ah in in the US. Yeah. Well, um you know, you can complain about the EU a lot, but one thing it's great for is lobbying activities. So if we all get our you know voices together and then do some great lobby work, I'm sure that we can actually make this topic heard on a much broader scale. So I think that's definitely a good way to go. So the official project website of Project Glow is still online, right?
00:59:52
Speaker
Yeah, it is still working. So if this's throw zare don see that it is It is still working. So there are quite many many articles explaining many of observations. There is the statistics statistics and there is also the final report from this 30 years of collecting and analyzing data in this project work.
01:00:21
Speaker
And of course the team the team is still working and we are we are registering all new testimonies and and observations and trying to explain still.
01:00:36
Speaker
Perfect.
Conclusion and Future Developments
01:00:37
Speaker
I'll put the links to um these items in the description of this episode. Thanks a lot, Martin. um You've been very generous with your time, and it's been really fascinating to get some insights into what's happening in Central East and Europe with this topic. So thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you very much. And perhaps in the future, we can look again for what has changed. Very lovely. Good idea. Thank you. Bye-bye.