Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
23: Germany’s Phantom Disc – Myths, Media & Money
83 Plays16 days ago
Historian Dr G. Wiechmann joins me to explore how a fleeting newspaper story from 1950 grew into one of Europe’s most bizarre UFO legends—the so-called “Nazi UFO”. In his recent book, Von der deutschen Flugscheibe zum Nazi-UFO (From the German Flying Saucer to the Nazi UFO), he traces the strange journey of this myth: from Cold-War headlines and pop-sci magazines to right-wing esoterica and modern-day model kits.
We discuss how this story took flight, why it keeps resurfacing, and what its long afterlife reveals about our appetite for conspiracy lore—even when the physics don’t check out and there's a complete lack of credible evidence.
What we cover
✦ How a brief post-war rumour turned into a mass-market legend
✦ The role of media, pulp fiction and military lexicons in spreading the story
✦ Why the myth survived debunking by engineers and historians alike
✦ How it continues to generate revenue through books, toys and memes
✦ What this case says about belief, technology and the business of mystery
Note: the interview is in German. Just email me to get a free English transcript of it (europeanufos@gmail.com)
Get in touch with the show
📢 Twitter/X: @EuropeanUFOs
📷 Instagram: europeanufos
📘 Facebook: European UFOs
📧 Email: europeanufos@gmail.com
☕ Support the podcast to keep it ad-free: buymeacoffee.com/europeanufos
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Support Options
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to European UFOs. My name is Sebastian and if you enjoy this episode, please leave a quick rating on your favourite app. Those stars help curious listeners find us.
00:00:25
Speaker
And if you'd like to keep the show ad-free, you can buy me a virtual coffee. The link's in the description.
Meet Dr. Gerhard Wichmann
00:00:32
Speaker
My guest this week is Dr. Gerhard Wichmann, a historian who until October 2024 was affiliated with the University of Oldenburg.
The Myth of Nazi UFOs
00:00:41
Speaker
He's the author of Von der deutschen Flugscheibe zum Nazi UFO, which translates to From the German Flying Saucer to the Nazi UFO, the first academic deep dive into one of Europe's most persistent UFO legends.
00:00:57
Speaker
the claim that the Nazis developed flying saucers during and or after the Second World War.
Origins of the Nazi UFO Myth
00:01:04
Speaker
In our conversation, Dr. Wichmann explains how a single newspaper story from 1950 sparked a myth that spread across Cold War tabloids, pulp science magazines, conspiracy literature, and eventually model kits and films.
Cultural Fascination and Historical Distortion
00:01:20
Speaker
We explore how this narrative survived debunking, why it still circulates today, and what its long cultural afterlife reveals about our fascination with secret technology and historical distortion.
00:01:33
Speaker
Grab your headphones and join us as we follow this legend from rumor to pop culture juggernaut and explore what its stubborn afterlife says about our appetite for conspiracy law.
00:01:46
Speaker
Please note that the following interview will be in German. For a free and translated transcript, please send me an email and I'll be happy to send it over.
In-depth German Discussion with Dr. Wichmann
00:01:56
Speaker
Hello, Mr. Wichmann. It's going to be signed.
00:02:02
Speaker
Perfect.
00:02:18
Speaker
Ja, das ist eine sehr gute Frage. yeah
00:02:48
Speaker
Und da hatte ich einen kurzen Exkurs gemacht in die Science Fiction. Der Bezug stellte sich her durch einen Zeichner, ah Johnny Brook, who knows who that is in the German Science Fiction, who knows who that is, has thousands of chosen the fund inusrazon and alsous know stras on the filip per roens area remarked about asre vier viterralaottopia and in
00:03:16
Speaker
Und da hatte so eine kurze, so einen kurzen Schnitt gemacht, weil ein Bild, das Brooke einer amerikanischen populären Zeitschrift entnommen hatte, das hatte er sowohl benutzt,
00:03:28
Speaker
as a for series of science fiction and military history, and then came after my speech the director of Schoening-Verlager and asked
00:03:48
Speaker
Could you imagine topic to be able to handle? He said, like to search serious historian. such a hot ah he' so and yearsvo side hackga vo and exactly yeah operation my western nazi u spirit had to put that za li I And had from And I said, what's going on? have a serious research on this topic.
00:04:19
Speaker
I said, I need a few weeks to check if that is also possible, just from the quality of life and so on and so forth. And then I said, well, if it's about a book, we said, 180 pages, then it's about it, that's a little bit of a while.
00:04:33
Speaker
and this is flu about a certain bit ba one on thehaistan or doeswa ahansutuva thefa hat know And good, and And then it was very good and I could go back to the 70s, 70s or even 60s, back in the early childhood and get started and get started with science fiction and this UFO-Thematical, which I was younger than 12, 13, 14 years, as it was, this world-of-beginal experience, which was with Apollo and the moon landing and so on.
00:05:18
Speaker
this. That was a challenge. What does it mean by a Nazi-UFO? I must say, was before that was not a word. Of course, you know UFOs. But what exactly does it mean by a thing? And is it really about something that existed or is all a mythos?
00:05:30
Speaker
kind ga glofi up but gri as the naish kmanvo um ahab vasanov for sheman daundda hundred as seta by vehicle from advanced for small xtertat order ah by uda as alisonwa footing and kafa like i mutor
00:05:51
Speaker
UFO ja für unidentifiziert steht.
00:06:05
Speaker
UFO, also ein identifiziertes fliegendes Objekt, also IFO dann genannt. No, that's all nonsense. And this term Nazi-UFO is also quite new.
00:06:17
Speaker
He is only 20, 25 years old. In the time before 2000, I say it, just German Flugscheibe or German Flugkreisel. does This is also the word that was used in the 1950s the German press in the German press.
00:06:33
Speaker
To make it clear, it has never been so long as a Flugscheibe or a Flugreise. It has not even even for a project. po schiz inda feel good
00:06:52
Speaker
Nicht mal das, sondern es ist schlicht und ergreifend eine Konstruktion, die sich ergeben hat
00:07:06
Speaker
Und selbst der Begriff UFO war damals noch gar nicht bekannt. Es heißt immer fliegende Untertasse, also Flying Saucer. Und der Begriff UFO ist offiziell in den USA, aber er ist Anfang 1954 vom US-Militär benutzt worden.
00:07:49
Speaker
and and of invite v is the historical context wikita that there's a hidden dam ah these hoed our um fleeing and unar tarson owned there deutsche but buffer data firmation um nazi wound up offer to me asal of tar theres mostlya Also this belief that it was flight of in cris and the
00:08:31
Speaker
and these um
00:08:40
Speaker
That happened after this time 1947. And the first actor, the first actor, is a German agent, who was not secret, 1948, a man Joseph Staszinski,
00:08:54
Speaker
and here stashchinsky yus of strashinsky ah de in bra Brazil, but not the cold air, he was inhaftated since 1942 as German agent.
00:09:05
Speaker
And he said in Brazil, I a a a in a newspaper in a newspaper in Sao Paulo, and the interesting thing is that this story will not transfer to Europe, because otherwise the start point would be here perhaps before 1950, but that remains a Brazilian narrative. The point and point of view of his behaupting was, he had of course with the fact that such fliegenden
00:09:55
Speaker
buttaan and was existed war one the british e statonva with the amrian suppress in ibra zigan press a gu um but f passes the list ari za file last song then i had debbra gar the year on angerga boten vanny mifi last on give me yeah shena tell causezeros of dammas kind oflinumo ah dupaish och in vi enveni bona and zouaana fluxy that i own There is the government of course not on it, as you can imagine.
00:10:23
Speaker
And he is then 1952 in the away and heard anything about this man. um andhaog is malsular i mean but and and But what he gave US
00:10:54
Speaker
guns can create a mad nonsense on triy law
00:11:05
Speaker
the
00:11:16
Speaker
His own name are some German scientists who live in the United States. There were several V-Waffen, so-called V-Waffen. In Germany is always known as V-1, this flying bomb, this modern cruise missile.
00:11:31
Speaker
but default bygrade And a ah the A-4, the from Pelemunde, the first world-world rocket, There was and This news is coming from 11 March and it takes about two weeks until a Giuseppe Belluzzo is called.
00:12:00
Speaker
And that was not a light bulb, but he was also a minister and was also a very famous engineer. Es gibt auch inzwischen eine ganz seriöse Biografie über ihn in Italien, nur die geht mit keinem Wort auf diesen ganzen Flugscheiben-Methos ein.
00:12:17
Speaker
Und er behauptet, wir haben 1941 in
00:12:42
Speaker
Und er wollte offensichtlich diese Firma so ein bisschen ins Gespräch bringen. And that's been then with the article is then over the Associated Press, also the first time, worldwide, and the German newspapers are full of it.
00:12:56
Speaker
And then it's not been long, until the Spiegel two weeks later or a week later, even a little bit of a guy from Bremerhaven, Rudolf Schriever, and says,
00:13:06
Speaker
ah sa tamit room experiment here aladins and in ofit cell of in of it la baes point four bitva and true cars if you're kinder the skins if you like theyrebo also you entire ah zoommit some zoard gumi propeller vitton kaiser anga shoman definitely standta mea like the dispute so fee if don't have aus there is li theator cap from s v and damage hit at address also yet about Er hat nie behauptet, also wenigstens nicht in diesem Spiegelartikel behauptet, das wäre in irgendeiner Form offiziell gewesen.
00:13:40
Speaker
Und dann dauert es ungefähr zwei Jahre, bis dann in
00:14:04
Speaker
Und alle weiteren Erzählungen darüber, auch die Namen, die dort genannt werden, wie Richard Mito oder Otto Habermol, die stammen aus dieser Artikelserie aus der Hamburger Morgenpost.
00:14:16
Speaker
Also ich finde, was Publicity
00:14:36
Speaker
And what I find interesting here is um so as egish i the cpressor does off g griffinhart um tro the um but vice mareal you that does c yeah auction shantda would i put a inba fabricri si at tatman um so tanga f to the the of
00:15:19
Speaker
Man konnte Angaben schlicht und ergreifend nicht einfach überprüfen. And it's about this. So these in this Morning Post series, that's all in Prague and Poland.
00:15:35
Speaker
And there was obviously clear, 1952, 1953, that nobody just went to do it. A journalist is going to go there or goes to the Eisenbahn and looks at the interviewer and so on.
00:15:46
Speaker
That was all of a sudden, it was not possible. Now I have to say, the Morning Post is not just a flag of press. It was a boulevard to do it.
00:15:58
Speaker
And there can be said, well, so long that on such a a better Bild-Zeitung is,
00:16:11
Speaker
The world am Sunday brings big report on this topic and he does not have a great deal with it. The world am Sunday brings a on exactly this topic and does not have a great deal with it. Georg Klein, who also in the Hamburg Morning Post has this article series, he has interviewed, and now it's more exciting to be interviewed by the world am Sunday, Dr. Werner Keller.
00:16:38
Speaker
Werner Keller, der Name, ich weiß nicht, das sagt Ihnen wahrscheinlich auf Anhieb auch nichts. Ich musste auch ein bisschen nachdenken. Aber zwei Jahre später hat der einen richtigen Weltbestseller geschrieben und die Bibel hat doch recht.
00:16:51
Speaker
Ach, ja. in
00:17:16
Speaker
was erzählt uns denn da dieser Klein eigentlich und so in Haft war.
00:17:27
Speaker
That is really a very apparent. And that's there a video room ouranggo is probably in guvi and then we get theseys brief earron i of the woundha lesson so naswaa rashpita so that the the the 2. Weltkriegs.
00:17:49
Speaker
And this book is from 1956 to 1971 in six episodes, is 1959, 1960, two times in English, one in New York and one in London. And there is this story of Loser. new york and ima in london and dot coti loser de as well as on Sunday, and that had to be the following,
00:18:12
Speaker
this is narrative as unran is present narrative of amal and i'm stun that
00:18:20
Speaker
and then also comes English. That is something that we can't explain today, and I'm not saying that. It is only because of the way that the Akten, if it was so, that all of these were in the USA and in Britain, also the underline of the Wehrmacht, but also the Waffen-SS and all of the various Behörden,
00:18:55
Speaker
but that's the do you know um it can kind of objective use the fa daba game so And of the And then a farthest sense, he worked at Mr. Schmidt-Berko Blom.
00:19:14
Speaker
Offensichtlich had he access to these German actors, which were given back to the German actors, which were given back to the German Milchprotokolle, which was the general Luftwettinger
00:19:31
Speaker
And it's been about 40.000 sites. And I have to say that again from a historian from Dresden, who saw this protocol and said there is not the slightest indication that so was existed.
00:19:57
Speaker
in the, yeah, also the scientific public. That's the point. And then it's practically the Bundeswehr, if not, unabsichtlich, probably one more thing 1958 is then also a military-technical book of the Bundeswehr.
00:20:12
Speaker
point in decent chabo we take you shift the widow on van luza And so answer vi and that is a sp andta de igius bunde satogrus min the theoums sheist fall of itsi anda bunnaeri it's that jewish cloud yeara really isn' in of And of
00:20:32
Speaker
That is of course a hammer, that must be clear. Yeah, also das ist, ja. Und welche Rolle spielt denn Science Fiction in diesem ganzen Kontext? Und generell die UFO-Kultur der 50er Jahre war ja doch zumindest in
00:21:06
Speaker
general And I must say, I'm going to to of the Kalten Krieges.
00:21:19
Speaker
ah it's em became scenario this kind clear
00:21:31
Speaker
Da muss man sagen, diese Science-Fiction-Geschichte, diese Pulp-Fiction der 30er Jahre hauptsächlich mit den Space Operas, wo ja die Landung von Außerirdischen etwas völlig Normales schon das spielt sicherlich ganz klar da rein.
00:21:46
Speaker
Aber wichtig ist auch zu erkennen, dass 1947 nach dieser ersten UFO-Sichtung, dieser ersten Welle, sagen wir mal, and There was no longer at the but the of enone statski beat on the industry or the military have something to do us.
00:22:18
Speaker
That's the thing that's most important thing that you say, there's something through the forest, which we don't know. It's quite unlikely that this comes from Russia or China. it's the who are the people who are.
00:22:30
Speaker
This Science-Fiction-Internet, in the sense of the outside-of-the-science, are protagonists of the Flugscheiben.
00:22:46
Speaker
Das können nur außerirdische Raumschiffe sein, was anderes ist gar nicht möglich. Und zwei Jahre später kommt dann an
00:23:02
Speaker
And so that begins this science fiction narrative with this UFO phenomenon and quite quickly swapps that also back to Germany. weba The first one, which is probably from of the book, is from 1955.
00:23:33
Speaker
in
00:23:49
Speaker
um einen Kampf gegen ein mongolisch-chinesisches Großreich.
00:24:01
Speaker
Eine Wunderwaffe, wie sie dann, oder Wundermaschine, wie sie genannt wird. Das ist aber auch der einzige Hinweis darauf, dass dieses Nazi-Ufo-Narrativ in Farm mal in die frühe deutsche science fiction is blown.
00:24:15
Speaker
Spannend. And is about daa ornigala whatever see the fighters and
00:24:38
Speaker
the green rocket or green light were there, which was be clear, what it was.
Science Fiction and Nazi UFOs
00:24:47
Speaker
You had never found one. They were always in some areas. And then they were away. And that played not a big role, these sogenannten Geister-Rakets. That was more than a part of the United States. And it played in the United States in the context of this Arnold-Sichting.
00:25:05
Speaker
be
00:25:07
Speaker
If we're a on
00:25:33
Speaker
and so new and's aam basic in rasa
00:25:58
Speaker
Nazi Secret Weapon. Ein ganz skurriles Machwerk, anders kann man das nicht nennen, um
00:26:27
Speaker
that with this of go on the rest of the civilization this planet, that is hard to read. That is also interesting because he uses not the term flying disc,
00:26:49
Speaker
but the first but vaseti wasarist aistabaar And is baga seen the his someic grand systemchaf thechef de and it happened for z and in man rans su come a And so but it's an amfoish ananbavaity of alieddaia and it's zebucha but zuhung shu mazo often that outside in si ga team magga malin eza a And Zündel is eventually went on a new UFO-Welle from 1973. And and Berlitz with his Bermuda-Dreieck.
00:27:34
Speaker
wanted to get off the screen and generate money for neo-nazistische Propaganda. Ob
00:27:55
Speaker
Es war immer nur offensichtlich graue Literatur. But the idea of this one's going to be on the ground without being able to believe, I can imagine that I can imagine. But it is obviously the source of work that was published in the 80s in Germany in Germany, and that was from an O. Bergmann.
00:28:18
Speaker
German Flugzeuge and U-Boote overwachen the world. There is he said. That is not a official but it's in a small collection somewhere in Westfälien.
00:28:33
Speaker
on dieel manu stripped communist And thenism internet of fightu reconstru vote the not guns oftened this the And a video product zone the chechishsh dausman isag of the damma gets cit in innou aan zi toma this the everything that you can imagine under the word Nazi-Ufos.
00:28:59
Speaker
There are things together connected with the that had existed in the
00:29:06
Speaker
oh with this Antarktis-Chief, Neuschwabenland, there is a German support so on. That is relatively refined made. The main thing is then a Herr Epp, Andreas Epp, and this Andreas Epp is the Kron-Sauge this whole Nazi-UFO-Chief.
00:29:26
Speaker
um The Interview-Auschnitte with him can be seen on YouTube. There are different versions of it. Probably is this from the Australian film makers made, that's all not exactly makes it clear.
00:29:40
Speaker
ah The production itself is made by a Rathofer and a Etl. And this ah this is video, or the the DVD was made by the
00:29:52
Speaker
Amazon.de, was is the name of the Sternentor-Verlag. They have in the meantime the production of the production. ah But this is these a video documentation, which probably all UFO-interessing of the 90s, was known the has, I believe, a whole lot movement.
00:30:13
Speaker
How is
00:30:23
Speaker
important ah nazi u force um isn't nazi u force some na and Are in and Is this really something that can identify a kind of ein understand a narrative he's still at? Or... If then, in to call as Nazi-Esoteric, and that's, I think, when it's about Neonazism,
00:30:54
Speaker
It's a field that often nor vden is the
00:31:11
Speaker
And that's something that fascinates the American history of the Saturn-Saturn-Saturn. And what's interesting is 2012, the discovery of the Mond-Nazis and that's i intro santa isiavan it's of these inra iron sky conference fromwaal andsworth the einon demon nazis the American science fiction author goes back to a very early, namely 1947, on Robert A. Heinlein, which is really one of the most famous, asimov on ssc clark ah and And in this novel, believe, Spaceship Galileo,
00:31:49
Speaker
is it and 1947 is very soon, relatively soon, on German. And there is a way of saying, as a fiction now, of the moon, there are a sort of flüchtling German Nazis with the Wehrmacht and the SS and two Raumschiffes, the name of Thor and Wotan.
00:32:08
Speaker
or And then comes a American army of their troops with their it's yeah armsm of and he sees it very quickly. And the interesting thing is that this book is the book for the famous film Destination Moon from 1950, which is the first real world-world film in Farbe.
00:32:28
Speaker
but there had naturally highline i'll admit out alice raski lesson but an and a form of this is fully absorb called so looking in current and thats is not very from fat tohi um man zach ara soti its anotherla is designed for the two umfa and indian was and g and spreading the don that's so but de is and go young fiish a avara satric is zenza t soon but my yeah to yes my for luta andaf that's understanding vi anna rammfa fromtinank cru
00:33:06
Speaker
It's all the
00:33:15
Speaker
Or was this more than 50 years then not criticized? Also, there must be something very important know. In the has that actually no one interested.
00:33:28
Speaker
Also in the 1950s, if someone has to do this UFO-Thematical, and Luftfahrt-Zeitschriften, for example Professor Heinkel, one of the famous Luftfahrt-Construkte, when that out of Kiyo, he said, how can this man ah unzu and so a to from particular yeah i'm anti smart off out the to in Abendblatt.
00:34:12
Speaker
ah There is no other information on the UFOs. The flying teller were also called in the Swiss newspaper. There is also lot of information on the Swiss newspaper. That is not so important. And the German German German this is abagani so viitch on ofta you do a fuyber to in theerus and schwedzer suppressed some bashbuganish yeah Yeah.
Media's Role in Perpetuating Myths
00:34:36
Speaker
Also, it means that it had actually in the Or so
00:35:08
Speaker
but yeah i'm the Americans have won more or less than they won, by the way they won Werner von Braun and his whole team with the USA. This is the famous operation of Operation Paperclip. And ah derosen ham does ah do naa vi keep na to upat soon with exist team ah ah from mathass well the
00:35:32
Speaker
and they are also relatively far with come. That must be said, if they have a lot of input. No, it's going to be really in the 1990s with this film, UFOs, The third Reich and course the Internet. And that Internet makes it of course,
00:35:46
Speaker
but natural to steam time but that's internet mar is not truly remote
00:35:58
Speaker
Und das wird überhaupt nicht hinterfragt und kritisiert. Also es gibt ja heute noch jede Menge Clips auf YouTube unter dem Stichwort Nazi-Jufo und da kommen dann Sachen raus, teilweise mit zwei Millionen Zuschauern und so weiter und so fort.
00:36:11
Speaker
What really is the is, timely forcepo a vo debate site so arrivedd off and Henry Stevens from the United States.
00:36:30
Speaker
And that book from Henry Stevens, again, is on the story of the Andreas Ebb. Also da beißt sich die Katze quasi den Schwanz und so weiter.
00:36:49
Speaker
Ancient Aliens und so sagt, also das ist ja im Grunde alles nicht ernst zu nehmen. Aber das Problem bleibt, es wird gesendet und es wird auch wieder verwurstet in neuen Sendungen.
00:37:03
Speaker
Und nicht jeder hinterfragt das ja. Ja, es ist kurios, dass dieser Mythos in in
00:37:24
Speaker
That's fascinating, but you could also have this ongo her fond lach nezo atlantis on the right area Also, this of Loch Ness was very early 1950 in the that we have always made, there's dinosaur somewhere in Loch Ness.
00:37:50
Speaker
That's good for tourism business, of course, somewhere. ah But, let's say, without Substance. And these fringe theories, if we call it the way, these scientific theories, there are wide range of fields and then come back to a television series of the 1990s and 2000s, also the Act and so i tell them the yava a adiatic
00:38:26
Speaker
Im Grunde genommen kommt immer raus, nein, es gibt ja diese Außerirdischen und so weiter. Da müssen aber eigentlich mal Medienwissenschaftler rangehen und sich das genauer an. I think that the relationship between science fiction and other publications and UFOs is something that is much less critical in the world. It is also been called as well as the soganantton ah Betty and Aliens, wohl sehr ähnlich gewissen Aliens and i'm fromzegayara theome and in
00:39:11
Speaker
And so I have the YouTube. gri And in the fact, the Darstellung of this Ehepaar with the club's aliens, that's in the fact that the Darstellung of this film completely primitive, also of course, billig.
00:39:38
Speaker
And that is a very wide field there could a lot of things to do. Yes. Do you have UFO-Forschung generally? And if yes, is is I think they are going to something that is what is in the today's UFO-Szene always a big problem. The people are not asked.
00:40:12
Speaker
You say and give only the same thing, what a previous one said. then, as neck. And that's actually a good comparison.
00:40:25
Speaker
of many UFO-Forshers. and thats know yeah speaking about a fraud as let's say I to wonderful work about this UFO-Philomene.
00:40:37
Speaker
And it was from this American historian Greg Ejigian. That was last year. And was excited about this. He really made the big big run-up.
00:40:49
Speaker
yeah had as of wi st gun score and umlachkaach from 1947 to in the Gegenwart, he took these into this an existing outside edition, what David Rush said, this US-American officer, where it a Senate-Hour and so on. The last, the most then the let's the gro about the history of the work. The is then 1994, published by Curtis Peoples, Watch the Skies, Keep Watching as the Skies.
00:41:21
Speaker
when das is finona chi noi or And for the Aber ich denke, das Buch von Ijigian wird auch den internationalen Diskurs sozusagen behandelt.
00:41:45
Speaker
Das wird erstmal für die nächsten Jahre ein Standardwerk sein. Ja, nochmal, um was
00:42:27
Speaker
And the Bild-Zeitung has never corrected me. But that's often so, with which press- and which case, a Dementi finds on the 5th, right, and that's not really interested in anyone. So there's always this insane picture Hitler and there is this strange strange thing. And then, you must think, in 2004, the Bild-Zeitung probably had 4 million readers.
00:42:48
Speaker
and then i must daha wereig as though not swi house in fear had to debuil something and va sha didn know fear million on days ah And also, we say that have 4 million people bought, we have 8 or 12 million people read.
Modern Perspectives on UFO Myths
00:43:02
Speaker
So a print media are still under the pressure.
00:43:05
Speaker
ah vo print median talkag on her stas with cz za and ah um but I think there is still a lot of internet that is where these documentaries going to end up that is not going to be asked.
00:43:21
Speaker
But you can see that and can believe it or not. If you look at the comments, it is already a bit of a shock.
00:43:29
Speaker
Yes, so is it. And that the And that reminds me of a very incredible way to what you mentioned earlier,
00:43:52
Speaker
So, I see today.
00:43:58
Speaker
and nich in deutschland to finend on damon screen con discan mesh if it's at vietnam niceloalda server most stars in the ohhota we auch und da kommt etwas ins Spiel, das hat mich nun mal in diesem Kontext auch interessiert, in Science Fiction?
00:44:28
Speaker
Und da gab er eine ganz tolle Antwort, er hatte also längere Zeit in Kalifornien gelehrt, er sagte, Science Fiction Fans interessieren sich nicht die Vergangenheit. Ja, der ist auch nicht für die Vergangenheit der Science Fiction, sondern die wollen ja was Neues lesen, was in die Zukunft weist.
00:44:47
Speaker
Und das ist auch tatsächlich so, die Geschichte der Science Fiction auch in Deutschland, das ist eine Handvoll von Leuten, die sich damit beschäftigt hat. Yes, in the fact. I think that the literature would do well to do it, to make it in detail.
00:45:02
Speaker
Yes, it's mostly fans, who are then dealing with In Dortmund lebt zum Beispiel jemand, who has a private bravary and has some new ideas from Dominic. I so very angry at that. I thought, man, I'll make that someone else.
00:45:21
Speaker
ah But it's then people like for example, Dieter von Regen in Lüneburg, who also has a small set films, who make such things, make such a reprint, also kritically edit them.
00:45:35
Speaker
ah But that's just one thing. It's amazing, actually, because of has been in today's world. On the way. Have you done in
00:45:55
Speaker
No. What will do with the last few years, because I have so much material collected in the last years, is a media story about this UFO-Philomen in Germany, also in the middle of Europe,
00:46:08
Speaker
from 1947 to circa 1990, fitzsis biter non similar that nuances as was before as internet line amlo mat on daab mistswa latintan acanha aba in spirit and so am i friend jago soon jagar as asette of torch said you butits and for masss the
00:46:27
Speaker
There is the title also very einductive. Also the UFOs are not Chile, but they are the press in Chile. And a Brazilian author, Rodolfo Gautier Cardoso dos Santos, The Erfindung of the Fliegenden Untertassen, Kalter Krieg, Press and Wissenschaft in Brazil 1947-58, both are written in Dissertation, both are written in Spanish, both are only published in Spanish, now that is not a problem.
00:46:53
Speaker
yeah abbbat from cardoso The of is also still on 12€ the work of Spanish. d biden you ham a zoy yet in let's say from sinan a of viri zpa aide And How this, how it comes from the US, that is completely unkritically from the Brazilian and Chilean press. And how that makes form an, could you not even in the US.
00:47:22
Speaker
Yeah, very exciting. Also there is a lot stuff in the area of UFO religion, UFO-Sekten and so on. surviv Also that's really insane. you done ah why ishishfi file of Yeah, on to hear about it. science fiction, popular scientists there, that deal with UFOs. But this relationship between science fiction
00:47:54
Speaker
and generally cultural narratives and UFOs, the must really be found in Europe, especially in Europe. So that's why I'm so happy. it would be nice if this book of would be published in
00:48:19
Speaker
But that be a good answer. But I would also is on the other side.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:48:28
Speaker
Super. um in der Beschreibung von der Episode noch mit einfügen.
00:48:53
Speaker
Gerne geschehen. Dann wünsche ich Ihnen noch einen schönen Abend. Danke.