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7: Finnish UFOs
260 Plays1 year ago
I am joined by Heikki Kulju, a veteran UFO researcher and Chairman of the Finnish UFO Research Association, to discuss UFO research in Finland as well as a particularly thrilling case.
In this episode you will learn about
- The history of UFO research in Finland
- The Rovaniemi Airforce incident of 1971: this case involves a closer encounter by military staff, several credible witnesses, physiological traces and official documents
- Some key aspects of UFOs in Finland
- The public and government attitude towards UFOs in Finland
- The future of UFO research in Finland
More about Heikki Kulju’s work
Website of the Finnish UFO Research Association (includes a digital database of sightings): https://www.fufora.fi/
TV show: https://areena.yle.fi/1-62511247
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Finnish UFO Archives
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode number 7 of European UFOs. I'm your host Sebastian and if you liked this episode then please make sure to subscribe and leave a review, it really helps.
00:00:26
Speaker
When we think of UFOs, Finland might not be the first country to come to mind. Nonetheless, unbeknownst to many, Finland harbors a rich archive of UFO cases meticulously catalogued by researchers over the last five decades. In the course of this episode, we shall explore a very compelling case that stands as a testament to the mysterious and often dramatic nature of some of these cases.
The Rovaniemi Air Force Incident
00:00:52
Speaker
This singular incident involves multiple credible witnesses within Finland's military, a paper trail, and even reports of physiological harm inflicted on the key witness as a result of his close encounter with an unknown craft. Known as the Rovaniemi Air Force Incident from 1971, it is undoubtedly one of the most significant cases in Finland, if not beyond.
Interview with Heikki Kulciu
00:01:18
Speaker
Here, with me to discuss Finnish UFOs, is Heikki Kulciu, Chairman of the Finnish UFO Research Association. Heikki is a seasoned veteran in the field of UFO research, with decades of experience under his belt. He's documented some of the most well-known cases in Finland's rich UFO history, including the 1971 Rovanyemi Case.
00:01:43
Speaker
So, sit back, relax, and get ready to explore the secrets of Finnish skies and the mysteries that linger in the shadows.
Weather and Time Changes in Finland
00:01:54
Speaker
Hello, Heike, and welcome to European UFOs. How are you doing?
00:01:59
Speaker
Really good. No major problems. It's just a little time change. We go to the winter time or summer time. Yeah, I always get confused by that as well. Fortunately, my girlfriend told me that it happened. Otherwise, I would have probably missed the interview today. But yeah, it's kind of
00:02:25
Speaker
It's strange that they still do this, to be honest. Is it already a wintery setting in Finland? Actually, it's been pretty cold the past couple of weeks. Surprisingly cold.
00:02:42
Speaker
No snow here in West Finland where I live. Today, this morning, it's just a little bit snowing, but fortunately it's over. It's just a little bit too early for the winter.
00:02:57
Speaker
We used to get the permanence sometime in December and in a good case in January, because we are in the western part of the country, about an hour from the Gulf of Patnia to the east. Locally, the town is Lapua.
00:03:18
Speaker
Well, at least you get snow, so we're on base here. It's only raining and dark, which isn't particularly nice, but you know, I have to get used to it. I'm used to it by now, so anyways.
Heikki's Paranormal Beginnings
00:03:31
Speaker
Hey, Guy, you're a man of many talents, so obviously it would be really interesting to hear a bit more about your background and how you got involved with UFOs. Okay, let's start from the beginning.
00:03:47
Speaker
I've been interested in paranormal matters all my life since the age of 10 or maybe nine, not sure exactly when it started. But the first thing I became interested in was the hypnotism. And I was seriously interested in hypnotism. And believe it or not, I was 14 years old when I was ready to hypnotize. And I started the hypnotism at the age of 14.
00:04:16
Speaker
But I have read everything I was able to get about the hypnotism, and that's how it started.
Founding the Finnish UFO Research Association
00:04:24
Speaker
I became interested in UFOs probably at the age of 14, but I do remember that the first thing I saw
00:04:35
Speaker
My first impression was the cartoon. I was probably eight, nine years old, and I saw the pictures of the flying saucers in the magazine. Of course, I did not understood exactly what it's all about, but I do remember it still, that I saw the pictures of the flying saucers and wonder what they are. That's the first interaction to flying saucers. But at the age of 14,
00:05:05
Speaker
In the local library, I ran to a new box. They were George Adansky box, which I've rented. I think I was the first person to rent them. I loaded the books and that was the beginning. Immediately, I realized that this is something I take very seriously and this is very interesting.
00:05:32
Speaker
I got to research it thoroughly. So that's how it started. And if we go a little bit further, in 1973, we established the Finnish UFO Research Association and it became the research number 20.
00:05:56
Speaker
I've been involved with this organization ever since. I'll tell you a little bit of facts a little bit later. But of course, in between the, say, 14 and about 20 years old, I tried to find all the books available about UFOs, and that's how it started.
00:06:22
Speaker
But I've done many other things. I was interested in parapsychology and read everything about parapsychology and related sciences. And of course, I was involved with the hypnotism very deeply.
Interdisciplinary Interests and UFO Research
00:06:44
Speaker
And that was really, really interesting, interesting hobby.
00:06:48
Speaker
And I use still today hypnosis in investigating the adaption cases.
00:06:59
Speaker
few very interesting cases during my life. So when you got involved or when you got interested in UFO research in Finland way back when you were a teenager, I suppose most of the literature was American English or were there already some efforts by Finnish colleagues to publish things?
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, the first books were translated and finished. I was probably 14 years old when the George Amarski books were translated to finish, and there were a couple of other books. I don't recall the names, but anyway, and that's how it started. Then a little later, let's just jump a little different
00:07:45
Speaker
thing to my background. I was interested in magic tricks, not the magic, but magic tricks and magic performances. And I became interested in magic tricks when I was about 12 years old. And it turned out to be my occupation for 25 years. And I still perform at magic shows, not professionally, but
00:08:09
Speaker
on a regular basis. So I began all the magic stuff at the age of 14 from the United States because they were not available here. I do remember that there was a company in Germany, at least one, and something in Sweden and so forth. So I became involved with the important goods and stuff and books and magic tricks and so forth.
00:08:40
Speaker
So, of course, I became also a box concerning UFO phenomenon from the United States. And I became, well, my first trip to the United States was 1973. We performed magic show in the USA. We went around the country and also we performed in Ontario, Canada.
00:09:06
Speaker
So that was my first trip to USA and I bought lots of books. And also I do remember that I bought lots of books concerning astrology, which was my hobby at that time. But not that much anymore. It's an interesting subject anyway.
00:09:30
Speaker
That's the way I studied importing goods, which later in my life became a very relevant thing to know how to import stuff, goods, products. So that's how I studied, but I was interested in many, many areas, philosophy, relations, and so on and so on.
00:09:56
Speaker
and still I am interested in those subjects and follow them on active cases.
The Need for Open-mindedness in UFO Studies
00:10:04
Speaker
I think that's very good because it turns out the UFO phenomenon is obviously very complex and to understand it, I think it's more than just a
00:10:16
Speaker
you know, nuts and bolts phenomenon and requires a multidisciplinary approach. So it's always good to keep an open mind and to explore different avenues. So when you were doing your embarking on your career as a magician in the US, do you also have the opportunity to speak to US researchers back then?
Transition from Magic to Business
00:10:42
Speaker
Or did that happen later? Because I know you're also
00:10:46
Speaker
internationally quite well connected with other UFO researchers. Actually, in 1973, when I started traveling to the United States, I've been there over 150 times so far and spent time a few years. We bought a house from Florida in 789, I think,
00:11:09
Speaker
I sold it because my business became so large that I had no time to travel, go to Florida. That's after my magician carrier changed unexpectedly because I thought that mail order business is probably an interesting hobby.
00:11:36
Speaker
When I was in Walmart, somewhere in West Palm Beach or somewhere, and I saw a vehicle compass. They were selling it. I don't know that this is interesting. I haven't seen it in Finland. Maybe I could import this. And that's my business world started. And I started as a hobby, and it was supposed to be a hobby.
00:12:06
Speaker
any opinion whatsoever changed my career from the professional magician to businessman. But that's how it started. I've been amateur radio operator, operator, I'm radio operator almost all my life from the age of 14. I became a member of local radio club and so forth. And then a little later I began importing amateur radio equipment from Japan. And then I realized that
00:12:37
Speaker
I had no time to perform magic shows because I had to be answering questions and phones ringing and I got an order and it became very lucrative with good business.
Hobbies and Personal Insights
00:12:50
Speaker
And I studied from garage and within a couple of years I was the largest amateur radio dealer in this country. And then I added other stuff and
00:13:04
Speaker
Acupuncture, I've been interested in acupuncture for a long time and still do acupuncture and my youngest son is a professional acupuncturist. My daughter is also an acupuncturist and so forth.
00:13:22
Speaker
That's basically one. But when it comes to the meeting, I mostly had meetings with magicians when I was in the United States. And also, I became a member to a hypnotist group at the West Palm Beach area. And those were the people. I didn't met UFO people.
00:13:48
Speaker
actually at all. So that became later, but I know contacts whatsoever to UFO groups. I don't know why. But anyway, that's the way it went.
Magician Skills and Psychic Phenomena
00:14:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I wonder, so as a magician, do you think it has given you a particular perspective on the UFO phenomenon? Because as a magician, you create illusions and, you know, you entice the audience. And so does it give you a particular view on the evidence? Because unfortunately,
00:14:32
Speaker
in the UFO world, there are a lot of charlatans and hoaxes have happened. So I imagine that with that background, you might have a unique perspective on discerning what is real and what might not be real. Yeah, not that much in the UFO area, but when it comes to the psychic things, that was enormous help that I was a magician. And also I performed mentalism
00:15:01
Speaker
So I know what it's all about. I know exactly. And this has tremendous advantage. I knew. I almost immediately was able to be appointed if someone is not real. So lots of help. And of course, everything else I've studied over the years has had some sort of effect to the UFO research.
00:15:29
Speaker
But to be a magician, you have a certain view to the things. And when you do the interviews and the hypnosis as well, of course, it's also an important tool and so forth. But everything has some sort of effect, what I'm now from the background, from the past.
00:15:56
Speaker
And so you, over the years, you've investigated many, I don't know how many, but hundreds, probably UFO cases in Finland.
Heikki's UFO Sightings
00:16:06
Speaker
Have you ever had a personal experience with UFOs? Because for some of my guests I've had on a show so far, this has also been a catalyst to really get even more into the topic, having that, you know, experience of having witnessed something themselves.
00:16:25
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen UFOs three times. The first one was quite interesting because that was 80s, I think, was early 80s. I was coming, driving from my town center to home. And I do remember that I visited in the bank. At that time, we got the receipts from the bank. If someone
00:16:50
Speaker
I had a business at that time and every morning I went to a bank and pick up the invoices or bank receipts from the bank and I was driving back to home. It's about 1.5 kilometers less than two kilometers to my home. On the way here I was driving home and suddenly I realized that there was some sort of
00:17:16
Speaker
small ball about 15 centimeters like a silver ball. I first thought that it must be a soap bubble. The kids are pulling the soap bubbles. But then I realized because it's hovering about three meter height and came to my view and I was slowly driving towards home.
00:17:45
Speaker
There's a spare limit. There's a rather small road. So there's a 50 kilometer speed limit. And when the ball, the silver ball, it was floating in the air and came to my side, I realized that this is not the sole couple. It's something else. And I sensed that there is something intelligent in the ball. Of course, it was remote control.
00:18:14
Speaker
But I felt like there was a person. And the person smiled and said some sort of a hello or something like that. And then I thought, OK, I'm going to stop the car. But before I could do that, I have to watch the back view mirror that is there someone behind me? And unfortunately, there was two cars behind me and I couldn't break the brake pedal.
00:18:44
Speaker
And next time I tried to see the ball, it was gone. And that was absolutely the first time I heard this kind of silver balls, which were small. It took several years until I read it in the United States. Someone had seen that sort of small silver ball-type UFO. And a little later I heard
00:19:14
Speaker
a couple of stories from Finland about the similar experiences. So that was the first time it was definitely a so-called UFO, unexplained. And it was not the soap bubble. I know that there was no kids in this particular place. I knew everyone, almost everyone, who are living in that particular area.
00:19:38
Speaker
So that was the first one. The next one was I was working with my dog in one morning, January morning, about 15 years ago, a little over, maybe 20, almost 20 years ago. I was walking back to home and it was quite cloudy in the morning and 7.30 in the morning.
00:20:08
Speaker
And I saw three stars on the eastern sky. They were in a triangle shape. One light was up, two down. And then I somehow I watched that because there was clouds, but those were the only visible, visible so-called stars. And unexpectedly, the lowermost,
00:20:38
Speaker
point, the star, so-called star, which was not star, but started moving in about 45 degree angle and slowly moved behind the clouds. And, oh, I forgot to tell it that first, it began to change, not the color, but it became very bright. In about a few seconds it became, say,
00:21:08
Speaker
20 times brighter what it was when I saw it the first time. And then it started moving. So that's the one. The third one was about two years ago. In May, mid-May, we were filming the documentary about UFO researchers for the Wiley, the Finnish Broadcasting Company.
UFO Documentary and Increased Credibility
00:21:34
Speaker
And we,
00:21:38
Speaker
We decided to make one, all the filming was already done, completed, but the editor wanted to have a little adhesion and we decided to do it because there was a person at this area about an hour from here who owned a searchlight that were used during the wartime. There's lights who use
00:22:08
Speaker
searchlights and they pinpointed airplanes. So this owner said that he had seen several times plasma balls around the beam, around the light beam. So we went to film that. I hope that maybe we see some light bulbs. And I was about to interview the owner.
00:22:36
Speaker
And suddenly the owner who was watching the southern sky, he said, what's that? And I turned around and I watched the area. He pointed, there was a ball, a brownish ball. It was not typical UFO color because they usually, usually fluids or that sort of, but that was a brownish color.
00:23:05
Speaker
So and suddenly another pole similar just appeared from the like thin air. It was about the same size, about the size of a baseball. And it was visible only a few seconds and then it suddenly disappeared just like that. And immediately the other one disappeared. And I'm
00:23:30
Speaker
100% sure that this was nothing I can explain by traditional explanations. I've never seen anything like this, but I've heard similar cases, and that was the third one. Nothing really drastic and sensational, but they had been
00:23:52
Speaker
interesting cases. And what I thought about the last case, I immediately thought that they, whatever they are, they knew what we are doing there. They wanted to get the finish to the documentary, and that was the finish. They didn't explain in the documentary what was going on. It was just because I spread my hands. Did you see it?
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's really fascinating and it's kind of a recurring theme actually, so it reminds me of an episode I did a while back with Erling Strand about the Hestanen Knights and there were also some interaction with Flashlights and UFOs, so absolutely fascinating. And also this idea that
00:24:43
Speaker
They know whatever it is, there's non-human intelligence, presumably has some idea of what's going on. Reminds me of an interview I did with Iman Ansbro in Ireland. They also did a TV documentary, I think, back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And they also captured it on film, on live television. So there is this sort of interesting connection.
Changing Public Attitudes towards UFOs
00:25:13
Speaker
So in Finland, what do you do when you see a UFO? Can you report it somewhere? We have had our website since early 2000.
00:25:30
Speaker
Actually, I was about to tell you because I had some fact info about the organization about these systems just briefly. Perfect. Let me see if I can...
00:25:47
Speaker
How about if, in this point, I read you the fact-inforce about the Finnish UFO research association. I've just collected some fact-inforce. Let's briefly what's going on. It makes it probably easier to understand. Perfect. Go for it.
00:26:07
Speaker
The association was founded in 1973, so we are now 50 years old. The association is national independent UFO research organization covering the entire Finland. We have about 300 members of which about 50 are the UFO investigators and about half of them are active investigators. The association has about
00:26:37
Speaker
3,000 UFO reports on paper form and about 2,500 in the database. The association publishes a magazine called Contact. It is currently published twice a year. The magazine has an average 40-45 pages. We also publish a web
00:27:05
Speaker
We publish a book every second year. The new book was published on September 1st this year, 2023. The new book contains 330 pages. The book is highly covered and has 260 pictures. The book weights one kilo. The first edition is already sold out.
00:27:32
Speaker
We'll get the second edition for the Christmas in about two or three weeks. Our board contains about 10 members, including spare members. We meet mainly using Zoom server. Meetings are usually two or three times in a month.
00:28:02
Speaker
We also have book sales and organized two public seminars a year and a larger three-day Congress every second year. Our last three-day Congress was last September, the first weekend from Friday to Sunday.
00:28:26
Speaker
We receive 150 reports to our database of unidentified phenomenon or UAPs each year. We have produced a TV documentary for YLE, the TV One, the Finnish Broadcasting Corporation. The documentary was some last September on TV One as a prime time show
00:28:56
Speaker
and in several raid runs on other wily channels. The documentary received very good reviews of viewers. This was the first UFO program on TV1 for 30 years. We were very proud that our most important TV channel wanted to cooperate with us.
00:29:26
Speaker
So we have recently been featured in several newspapers and magazines, talking about national magazines and newspapers. And this has brought us lots of positive publicity. So that's basically what I have shortly about the organization.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yes, thanks a lot for this overview. What do you think is just, in your opinion, is the general attitude of the public in Finland towards UFOs? Do you think there's an interest now also in the wake of that TV documentary you produced last year? Or is it something that's been ridiculed and people are not really interested in? What do you think?
00:30:16
Speaker
I think their attitude has changed recently or within past three years considerably. Actually, we do receive very little negative feedback. Actually, it's minimal, especially after the documentary. We estimated, we thought that we might get lots of all kind of crap, but it was vice versa. The response was very positive.
00:30:46
Speaker
really positive and we have received extremely little negative feedback. So attitude has changed within past three, I would say within past three years considerably. So of course there's a lot of skeptics, mostly they are engineers and people who think that they know everything and they can use the computer.
00:31:14
Speaker
and scientific matters that they know everything. And when they studied 30, 40 years ago, all the facts are still valid and so forth. The other words, but I understand them. But generally, the interest
00:31:35
Speaker
to the UFO phenomenon has increased tremendously, especially what has happened in the United States recently. It has changed also skeptics attitudes because now they know that even the government and Senate in the USA is interested in UFOs and UAPs and they are investigating it. Although those who are in knowledge, those who know, they know that they have been studied
00:32:05
Speaker
UFO since 50s or actually I think from 1939 and ever since it's been investigated on several levels and areas but now when they're talking about Senate and Congress it has changed the attitudes and the same has happened in Finland and as I said we have been lots of publicity in the newspaper national newspapers and
00:32:36
Speaker
and so forth. So it has changed your attitude.
00:32:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean there's something also I've been thinking about quite a bit and I've also come to realize that ever since 2017 and that New York Times article, the world has changed and the ripple effects also, you know, you can also feel them in Europe of that.
Global Shift in UFO Perception
00:33:02
Speaker
So the last few years has been quite a dramatic change also in the public.
00:33:08
Speaker
Attitude towards your photos in particular with the media. Question is if you also want to include the legacy media in that like bbc and so on i think they've failed horribly in recent weeks with the david crush story but that's that's a different affair.
00:33:29
Speaker
And I think what you mentioned in terms of the, you know, skeptics, like, you know, engineers and so on, I think there's a fine line between being a good skeptic and being a debunker. And I think a lot of the things you see, a lot of the critique that has been levied against UFO research is really from the point of view.
00:33:57
Speaker
This can't be true, but I haven't seen the facts, but it can't be true. This is the mantra that's often put forward. But speaking of data, I know you've
00:34:15
Speaker
going to talk a bit about a particular case study, which is really relevant, but just on a very high level for our audience. Have there been phases in Finnish UFO research that stand out to you? Have there been flaps, mass sightings of UFOs during particular decades? So I guess what I'm getting at is, have there been ups and downs in UFO activity in Finland?
Growth of the Finnish UFO Association
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about the activity in our organization. Well, absolutely, there's been activity up and downs, because the organization is 50 years old. And there's been down, so we can downstream for a while before I came the chairman of the organization. Unfortunately, before that, it didn't
00:35:15
Speaker
go too well in the organization and it took a lot of time to get it back to what it was when it started. Of course, the organization has worked all the time, but not so well.
00:35:34
Speaker
There was a skeptic period also in this organization. And that was very negative when we think about it later. And so when I was, I wasn't the member of the other organization. I mean, not the chairman earlier, but I was the chief of investigators for a few years, also a board member and so forth.
00:36:04
Speaker
But then, well, I was asked to start as a chairman, and I decided to change the course, turn the course entirely. And I did it, and I did lots of improvements and changes to the organization, and it has worked very well, although I say it myself, but that's what has happened. Activity is very good nowadays,
00:36:34
Speaker
We have finally getting back to the same membership amount what we had about 25 years ago, 30 years ago. It took a long time to get it because when I started, we had only 60 people in the organization. Now we had 300 and we're growing all the time. So in a small country, it's pretty good.
00:37:04
Speaker
And there seemed to be interest to become a member. And we started to make a scene. And of course, we have published books since the 1973, about 20, actually every second year. So the book we published now was 25th book. So there's about 12 books earlier published in our organization. But the last one is the
00:37:34
Speaker
is the absolute best we have ever done. This was also the 50 year anniversary work. All these things have changed the situation and our organization is growing
00:37:52
Speaker
quite rapidly because nowadays the situation is that it's really, really hard to get members. Whatever organization you have, I remember many organizations because I've been involved in so many things.
Challenges in Organizational Growth
00:38:06
Speaker
I'm at the radio operator. I'm a pilot. I'm an airplane. I'm a rotary member, odd fellow member.
00:38:15
Speaker
and so forth and so forth. And I know what is the problem with every single organism. I forgot to mention magician's organization. A member of several musicians associations worldwide. So that's a problem, but I'm happy to find out that a UFO organization is growing up
00:38:41
Speaker
all the time. So that's very, very positive. And we're working for that. We have lots of plans for the future. And for the West, we have got very important people to become our members. So we've got several professors already and doctors and x-ray doctors and ethnic doctors and whatever. So very good people who are
00:39:10
Speaker
and have been interested in UFOs in the past, but they never speak about it. So that's also important that we get that sort of people to join to our organization.
00:39:25
Speaker
Absolutely, and I think that's also one of the changes in recent years, probably since around 2017, particularly in the US. Notable researchers and academics have also come forward incrementally with a valid interest in this subject, so I think that is very important.
Post-Documentary Surge in UFO Reports
00:39:46
Speaker
And so I suppose that as the numbers are increasing within your organization, that also the number of sightings goes up. Because I suppose that if you have more people looking into this, you will also increase the overall number of sightings. Yeah. And what is most important after the documentary, I noticed this very clearly.
00:40:11
Speaker
people were not anymore afraid to report of the sightings. They have had sightings. They had what had happened when they were been a child. So I got the tremendous amount of phone calls after the documentary, because it was at the prime time on TV One, which is the so-called our official TV channel. Like I said before, they haven't
00:40:39
Speaker
showed anything about the UFOs in about the past 30 years. So this was the first one. And in Venice, they realized that, okay, those guys are nice. I was not the only one. I had a couple of other members from the Association. I asked my helpers, and they noticed that
00:41:03
Speaker
that, oh, those are nice guys. They do not try to try to ridicule them and so forth. And so they were not afraid to call me. So I've got many very interesting cases. They were mostly old cases, maybe 30 years, but they were remarkable cases.
00:41:28
Speaker
And they talk about it for the first time. Several people never talk about this because my father, I was about 15 years old and my father told us, you are not gonna talk about this to anyone. They're gonna say that they're very crazy if you talk about it. And they believe it and they didn't talk about it. So that's sort of so-called old incidents
00:41:57
Speaker
We've recorded several, not necessarily the new, but of course we received about the same rate, about 100 to 150 reports in a year. They are mostly traditional light bulbs and that sort of stuff, which I pretty much, to be honest, a little bit boring for the UFO research because you have
00:42:25
Speaker
You have heard about those balls moving on the sky hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. But anyway, every now and then there's something very important like abductions and that sort of stuff and close encounters and so forth. Of course, the white balls are okay if they move
00:42:49
Speaker
say zigzag form and do not move like I said, the light straight line and so forth and so forth. But we have hundreds of them.
00:43:00
Speaker
I found the opening episode of your show really interesting with this mobile phone capture of a light bulb from the window.
International Documentary Release
00:43:13
Speaker
I think it was a woman who woke up at night because her partner was snoring. Have you seen the document?
00:43:21
Speaker
I've seen all of them. It's absolutely amazing. I didn't know that. Where you managed to get it because they haven't released it, or is it already turned internationally? It's internationally on the arena. There's an online platform where you can just watch it, even with English subtitled, so it's pretty neat. Oh, I didn't know that.
00:43:46
Speaker
There is absolutely really really really great. As you mentioned also that UFO abduction case with that gentleman who you then put under hypnosis was also fascinating. Yeah, very interesting case.
00:44:05
Speaker
And I've got one even probably even more interesting case, but the lady, she's a psychologist by her occupation. And she's very cautious because she's still working professionally. Of course, she is, she do not want to be revealed that she's something, something, something crazy person because she has experienced the abduction or actually it was not abduction.
00:44:35
Speaker
It was that she's been earlier in the previous life, some sort of like a psychologist. She said that not like here on the Earth, but the similar occupation in the spaceship. And the spaceship where she was was the very advanced holographic computers and whatever she had there. And she was
00:45:04
Speaker
the ship was sort of like an earthly terms, an ambulance. They helped the planets which were in danger or actually something drastic had happened at the particular planet. So they were asked to go to help and she was part of this team. And it was very, very interesting, lots of information and
00:45:34
Speaker
lots of details and she was so surprised because she was a psychologist and she had started just to become interested in UFOs about a year earlier and that's how it started.
Hypnosis in UFO Abduction Cases
00:45:52
Speaker
It started so that one morning she saw a very strange mark here between the
00:46:02
Speaker
and the first finger. It was so peculiar, Mike, that she began to talk that it must be something, something very, very strange happened. She already thought that probably an abduction or something, and she wanted to be hypnotized, that we can somehow explain how the mic on the hand
00:46:30
Speaker
had appeared there. And they explained it. It was nothing else. I suspect that there's an implant, but she said, no, it was not an implant. It was just to arouse her mind that something has happened. And this mark somehow was some sort of catapult. So it would wake her up a little.
00:46:59
Speaker
And in the hypnosis, we were able to get the details about this and lots of other things. But there's a lot of things to do, but she's very cautious now. And it takes time to understand what has happened because everything was new to her. And it was so important, important experience to her that
00:47:26
Speaker
But we will continue one day going through the details. Yeah, but I mean, looking where the world is headed, I'm glad there might be an intergalactic ambulance floating around somewhere. I think that would be very helpful for everyone. But yeah, I mean, when those, you know, first of all, congrats to that show. I think it's really well done. And the people you've interviewed on the case, you've investigated, you can
00:47:55
Speaker
tell that there really is something substantive behind them.
Finnish UFO Documentary Online
00:48:00
Speaker
So it's especially the one you mentioned earlier with the World War II flashlight going up into the sky because this, you know, you could just tell this is a no bullshit guy. He just lives there and then had this experience and so it's
00:48:17
Speaker
It's very fascinating. I'll make sure to put a link to the show in the podcast description so people can check it out. As I said, it's also available with English subtitles, which is definitely a great thing. In doing my research for this episode, I came across the 1970s as a particular dramatic episode in Finnish UFO sightings.
1970s UFO Activity in Finland
00:48:46
Speaker
I think it's peculiar because also you've got parallel developments in the US and also other countries. And it's always the early 1970s up until the mid 1970s where you see lots of UFO activity. And so I gather you've brought a case with you that you can share some insights about from that era. Yeah, there's been many remarkable UFO
00:49:16
Speaker
incidents around 70s and even earlier. But my records are mostly after 73 after the establishing the Finnish UFO research of Fufora. But there's been many, many, many interesting cases. And as I said, we have 3,000 paper reports and we haven't gone through this material
00:49:45
Speaker
As yet, I mean, it's been, of course, those who were involved 30 years ago, 40 years ago, they probably know this about these cases, but it's so enormous task. And it's developing now that we will send all 3000 reports to Sweden and they will scan them for us because they have a stuff and very active. I'm sure you know.
00:50:13
Speaker
to whom I'm referring, Klaus Spahn. Yes. So Klaus was lecturing for us in near Helsinki in early September in our convention. And we decided that we will ship all the files to Sweden. And he's got the staff who can scan
00:50:38
Speaker
everything and that makes our life a little bit easier. Our organization is much smaller and we do not have government help as they have. They employ people for them and so forth. So that will help and we can get the easier way to check out what they have had in the past.
00:51:06
Speaker
even put an AI to work to go through all the documents and analyze patterns. I think going digital is a way forward. So it's fascinating.
Investigating the Rovaniemi Incident
00:51:17
Speaker
And so I believe you have a case study you wanted to focus on a bit more in detail, right? Yeah. So yeah, I have actually, I've translated this case. This is very
00:51:32
Speaker
very interesting case from the year 71. But the reason why I wanted to go to this particular case is that I've involved this case personally. I've investigated it from the very beginning. And before I started, I've written because there's so many, so many different steps over the years. This began from 2006.
00:52:02
Speaker
And how it started, how I learned about this case, the Rovaniemi military default case from the year 71. I said that it was an accident, but I do not believe in accidents. I don't think that there's such thing as an accident, but it looks like some sort of accident. So I get the info about this case accidentally.
00:52:32
Speaker
And it happened this way that my wife's sister, she's married to a guy who has been working, not that he's retired now, but 2006 for the telephone company. And they had stopped to a gas station to have a cup of coffee.
00:52:53
Speaker
And they met another group of telephone company workers. And at least we joke here in Finland that you will meet the telephone company people at the gas station drinking coffee. So that's what happened anyway. So when they were drinking coffee, they had began talking about the army times. We have a compulsory army in Finland.
00:53:24
Speaker
So it's from six months to 11 months, not anymore. It's not that compulsory. When I was in army around the same time, I actually was in 69, but I was radio operators, telegraphs operator, a Morse code operator, because I was hand radio operator. But anyway, so they began talking about what had happened in the army.
00:53:53
Speaker
And one of the guys had a story that one of my friends, the roommate actually, had a very strange thing happen when he was in the army in Romaniemi. And, well, I'm not going to talk about it more, but that's how I got the information because
00:54:18
Speaker
My wife's sister's husband knew that I'm involved with the UFO research. So he called me, he understood. It was clever because he understood that it was an important case. So when he visited here, he began to talk about what he had heard. So my first reaction was, do you have the name of the person who was involved? Do you have his telephone number?
00:54:47
Speaker
And it didn't take more than probably three days. I had this person's name and his telephone number. So that's the beginning, but I do not think that that was
00:55:01
Speaker
accidentally received information. It has a purpose. I translated my finished version. This is abbreviated because this is a complicated and confusing case. I'm going to read it to you what's going on.
00:55:25
Speaker
The title is The Case of the Royal Army Military Report in 1971. In many ways, this case is one of the most special and confusing UFO cases in Finland. There have been many interesting steps and twists and turns over the years in investigating this case. What makes it significant is that there have been military personnel involved
00:55:55
Speaker
and the incident has taken place in the guided military area. In addition, there is a case where we were able to find military documents to prove that the incident is true. I used the nickname Simon for the Air Force soldier who has major role in this case.
00:56:24
Speaker
He didn't want to reveal his own names. Simon was still in the military service at the time of my first contact with him. When I interviewed him the first time, Simon expressed his concern that he did not want to be questioned about what he had said, meaning the military. So what happened?
00:56:51
Speaker
Simon was performing his army service in the Rovaniemi Air Force garrison in the Arctic Circle, 1971. The incident occurred during the car shift on August 23, 1971 at 1.30 a.m. local time. That night,
00:57:15
Speaker
Simon was on guard duty in the military storage area near the city of Robaniemi. The dramatic course of events began in the midst of the night. Simon was walking around the storage area when he noticed reflecting light from the road. That road leads to a storage cave tunnel which is built inside the base rock.
00:57:44
Speaker
The guide trail runs somewhat higher than the road to the storage tunnel. After walking a little closer to the road, overlooking the road and the entrance to the tunnel, he walked closer to the edge of the hill so that he had a clear view of the road. Simon described the light and the object as a fluid light, similar to a cast flame.
00:58:14
Speaker
He walked closer, he found an object floating on the road. He saw a round object floating, but could not see the windows or other details from the object. The case assessment was also difficult as he looked at the UFO from above the cliff, which is higher than the road. He first thought of a truck on the road,
00:58:44
Speaker
As it got closer and had a straight view of the object, immediately we realized that it voiced quite something other than a human-made device. The object was a circular shape and about three to four meters in diameter. It was silent. The object had landed on the road leading inside the tunnel.
00:59:10
Speaker
near the doors of the storage tunnel. Simon was now about 50 meters from the object standing on the cliff. At this point, Simon also realized that his friend was inside the tunnel, beyond the doors serving the guard duty inside the tunnel. Awareness of this situation was of particular concern to Simon because the UFO was so close to the doors.
00:59:42
Speaker
Simon decided to act. He had a flashlight with him and he pointed the flashlight beam towards the UFO. Immediately, he heard a strange sound from the object. Simon was scared and thought he was in danger. He decided to fire his gun at the target floating on the road. After firing apparently two shots towards the UFO,
01:00:10
Speaker
It quickly began to collide silently backward and in a few seconds disappeared. The target did not ascend straight up but flow backward and sideways out of sight. Simon couldn't tell how long the encounter lasted. However, Simon did not believe that there was so-called missing time phenomenon involved.
01:00:38
Speaker
But he couldn't be completely sure about it because of the shock. Simon had dropped the gun on the ridge in a panic and started to run towards the supervisor's residence. Immediately after the shooting, the UFO, which had disappeared from you. According to Simon, the military conducted an investigation. A researcher had come from Tikakoski, a garrison from central Finland to find out what had happened.
01:01:09
Speaker
Simon has no information about the results of the study. As a result of the encounter, abscesses appeared on Simon's feet. Because of this, Simon was in the care of an army doctor. Symptoms were suspected to be caused by radiation. Simon says that the traces
01:01:37
Speaker
left permanent marks on his feet. They were still visible after decades. We heard that a radio amateur who lived nearby had talked about exceptional radio interference during the event. More about this later.
Simon's Reluctance to Discuss the Incident
01:02:03
Speaker
Another constrict got it inside the cave
01:02:07
Speaker
was unaware of the incident because he was about 100 meters from the doors of the tunnel. The experience had been very stressful for Simon. He was very reluctant to talk about it, even though it had occurred a long time ago. In almost every phone conversation,
01:02:33
Speaker
I had to persuade Simon to tell me the details of the case. The interviews have revealed a strong state of fear about what had happened. Further information I had about I had the phone interview with Simon a few weeks later. This was the second phone interview with him. He was very reluctant to talk about it.
01:03:01
Speaker
talk about the incident, but after a while, he changed his mind and we talked about the incident for about 20 minutes. In this conversation, an interesting fact emerged that Simon is working in the same place where the UFO encounter had taken place, 1971, the Romaniemi Air Force Base. This, of course, partly explains why he was very reluctant, very concerned,
01:03:31
Speaker
about picking up the case. The concern was obvious because he was on an army payroll and apparently he thought it might have a negative impact on his carrier. After we had gone through the case interview, I asked for the opportunity to call him again.
01:03:55
Speaker
for the further clarifications. Simon came for instance to do it. I decided to proceed with caution. I called Simon again a few weeks later in 2006. I will try to clarify a few more things about the case and also reconfirm the cause of events as well as verify the consistency of the data compared to my previous interviews.
01:04:24
Speaker
Simon was still very concerned again and not very willing to talk about what had happened. In practice, so I started the interview again from almost zero. After a long discussion, Simon calmed down and we got to go through the case again. A new interview in the case confirmed the information I had already received
01:04:53
Speaker
The description was exactly the same as in my previous interviews. I asked Simon if he was forbidden to talk about the incident. According to Simon, he had not been explicitly banned from talking about it. He said that it was forbidden to talk about what was going on in the army or things related to army or what was being stored in the storage default.
01:05:24
Speaker
I always asked to get the permission to come to meet Simon in person in Ravanemi, but he refused. The experience had been very tough for Simon. He said the case is still on his mind on a daily basis. At this point, I decided to wait for Simon to retire from the army. His retirement was not too far away. The next step
01:05:54
Speaker
I tried to contact the former commander of the Air Force. I called him two times and he did not answer to my call. The commander's name is Ronald Maria. He should have been in service at that time of the UFO incident. Finally, he called me back on November 10, 2015, and he said
01:06:24
Speaker
He was not aware of that UFO incident during his tenure. He had no recollection of such a case. He said, this made even more mysterious. I suspected that what he told me was not true. I had a Zoom meeting with him in 2021. I interviewed Ronald Maria a couple of times.
01:06:53
Speaker
2021 by June. The first interview was a kind of exercise for the Wiley TV documentary we were filming, which was supposed to record the next day. We had a general discussion about unrecognized phenomenon and the military's perspective on the matter and so on.
01:07:23
Speaker
The next day, our conversation about our Zoom conversation was recorded for the moment, for the documentary. Mr. Merrier did not say anything new and significant. Personally, I thought, couldn't be like that, but what you can do. However, the case on Merrier's side has not yet been completed. More about it later.
01:07:52
Speaker
More information, we'll jump a little bit backwards, more information on November 16, 2015.
Radio Interference during the Incident
01:08:00
Speaker
This case seemed to be of interest to the public, the general public. In my presentations, I have repeatedly spoken of the case. I have had number of public appearances, presentations, YouTube videos, and so on. One of the YouTube videos has been watched 44,000 times.
01:08:22
Speaker
So again, I got another very significant tip from a taxi service owner in Rovanimi who contacted me. He said he knows who the radio amateur operator involved in the case is. At this point, he did not know the name of the amateur radio operator, but he knew where he lives
01:08:49
Speaker
because he had given him taxi rides. The taxi driver promised to let me know when the name is known. So I received a phone call on October 30, 2018. He informed me that he now knows the name and the phone number of the amateur radio person. He had also received permission from the person that I can contact him
01:09:18
Speaker
discuss the case with him. Now the case got the new very interesting and very significant right action.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, no, it sounds absolutely fascinating. So you have multiple lines of evidence converging. It's a military case. I mean, it's kind of the Finnish Reynoldsham Forest, almost what it sounds like. It sounds fascinating.
01:09:56
Speaker
But hey, do you want to hear the rest of the story? Yeah, please, please go ahead. Okay, because there's much continue absolutely abbreviated that this is much interesting twist. So, so yeah, the name that actually driver informed me was his name was hey, no, oh, we had a long phone chat with him on October 30 in 2018. He came in to use his own name in the case.
01:10:26
Speaker
To my astonishment, he had worked in the storage area as an intelligence officer for years. His hobby was ham radio or amateur radio as it's called in Europe. He had been on radio working with another amateur radio station in USA. The call sign of this US amateur radio operator is WV-0-A-M-E.
01:10:54
Speaker
Unexpectedly, during the radio contact at 22.40 GMT, a local time 1.40 AM, the receiver suddenly went completely muted. The first
01:11:09
Speaker
He first suspected that the antenna had disconnected or something similar had occurred, but all the connectors were closed and no visible faults was found in the equipment. But the receiver and the transmitter were completely muted, which was completely incomprehensible. It had never before occurred. The exact time of the radio contact to USA
01:11:39
Speaker
and other relevant information was recorded in his logbook. Keeping a logbook of the radio contact space mandatory at the time, the time must be very precise in this case, as it was reported of the officer and the amateur radio operator
01:12:01
Speaker
who is well accustomed to these kind of routine entries. All radio contacts, I regard it in Lockbook precisely. That's why we have very accurate time of the UFO landing close by. The next day, he entered on Lockbook additional remark, UFO.
01:12:27
Speaker
after the other details of the interrupted contact previous night. The case progressed so that shortly after the issue with the radios, Heino Ajo heard a knock on his door. And there was an airman, the guide, looking distressed, white pale at the pale face, and he was out of breath.
01:12:55
Speaker
and came to report what had happened. Simon announced that he had fired at the target in front of the tunnel immediately. He realized that something very exceptional had occurred. After hearing that the security guard had fired at the target, firing on a guard duty is a very significant case that causes immediate action.
01:13:22
Speaker
Hano put the clothes on and they left the scene together. Simon had told Hano that he had thought the truck had entered the mouth of the storage tunnel, fat, and immediately realized that no one had opened the cage to the storage area and let anyone in the area. God, Simon had said,
01:13:52
Speaker
that he had worked closer to the reflecting light. He had seen round bright object about the width of the road in front of the tunnel doors. He had first pointed the object with the flashlight beam and the UFO had reacted to it. Simon said he heard a strange sound from the object when the light from the flashlight beam hit the object.
01:14:22
Speaker
Simon was very scared and he thought that the target was attacking him. Then Simon fired a few shots at the ship with a machine gun. According to earlier version 5 shots, but according to Hano, two shells have been found in the investigation.
01:14:50
Speaker
As soon as the shooting took place, the ship had risen slightly higher and moved backward, leaning slightly to the side, to the side and leaving the area. According to Hano, the guard, active as instructed, he fired at an unauthorized entry to the secret military area. Finding former intelligence
01:15:18
Speaker
Officer Heno Ajo has had a very significant role in the investigation of the case. Heno Ajo also talked about an interesting coincidence that happened in Tikhakovsky garrison for many years later, apparently at the time, sometime in the late 80s. The army officers had had a meeting in Tikhakovsky. There was some kind of getter-getter with the military officers.
01:15:49
Speaker
It was official meeting. Everyone was wearing military outfits. Enoa told me that a person in civilian clothes approached him. He did not know the man. This person has started asking about the Rovaniemi UFO case. Enoa had wondered about the exact details of the interviewer about the case. This man
01:16:18
Speaker
had been particularly interesting in the details of the case and asked several questions concerning the Rovani occurrence. The person was the only person wearing civilian clothes in this event. This case was not known in Finland at that time, except by those who were involved with it somehow.
01:16:46
Speaker
This means that the military in this country have people who investigate this kind of phenomenon. So the next step in the investigation, I was contacted by a person who was not a UFO researcher, but was very interested in the case. This person had searched the files concerning this case for about two years. He told me,
01:17:12
Speaker
I started by going through the microfilm archives from 1969 to 1972 to see if there were any other similar observations in the public at the time and if something special had happened in the press during August 71. There were quite a few interesting and surprising articles about the UFOs at that time.
01:17:41
Speaker
As the search continued, he managed to find four page sees of original military records concerning this case. The military documentary findings are very relevant to this case and confirmed the authenticity of the incident. For the first time in Finland, we were able to get original investigation report from the military.
01:18:11
Speaker
It is also interesting to note that possible radioactivity had been investigated in the incident area. That was indicated in the documents we got. The document indicated that the person who shot the UFO said in an interview that he had suffered some type of radiation insured to his feet.
Military Records Confirm Incident Authenticity
01:18:38
Speaker
He told all of the traces that had been left under faith and the marks were visible there for the rest of his life. Another significant fact that appeared in the records is that not all the documents related to this case were not released. For some reason, they did not release all the documents related to this case. Now, however, we know that there are more documentaries
01:19:09
Speaker
And the case is not closed yet. Thanks to the evidence we obtained, these new documents make this case one of the most significant UFO cases in Finland. And now back to Rauno Meria.
01:19:29
Speaker
former commander of Ravanemi Air Force Base. He totally surprised me with his email of September 4, 2021. Here's the email. It's abbreviated. Hello, Haki. I want to revisit that incident in Ravanemi, especially the shots fired by a security guard.
01:19:54
Speaker
I had only been the commander of the Romanini Air Force Base for less than a week. We took the Guard's report of the UFO sighting seriously and were confident he was telling the truth. The case, however, remained a mystery.
01:20:17
Speaker
Then there's a little bit about the documentaries in Rovani. I didn't tell earlier about it, but he has a comment to the missing documents. In an interview, I asked him, I heard from, hey, there has been
01:20:37
Speaker
documentaries in Rovaniemi, but they have been destroyed later. So he commented, I asked the commander, and he replies in this email. There was never any reason for the deliberate destruction of documents during my tenure, and such an action was never taken. However, I doubt
01:21:06
Speaker
that there are more research documents available on the case. At least I don't recall any, except those four pages of documents were found signed around America. So about these documentaries, of course, they destroyed the documents in Germany, but the original copies were sent to Helsinki Archives.
01:21:36
Speaker
So that was confirmed a little later. So, well, I think I know why the commander's memory recovered unexpectedly. The reason was simply that we found out those original army documents and he was aware of this.
01:22:01
Speaker
because they were available on our website. Maybe he estimated that sooner or later we'll get more documents proving that he was the commander at the Air Force Base at that time and he was aware of the incident. In this way, we also received confirmation from the commander.
01:22:24
Speaker
The only case of 1971 has become one of the most significant and now authentic UFO cases in Finland. Thanks to the evidence we obtained, these new documents have elevated this case, most significant UFO cases in Finland's history. Let's note further about what's
01:22:51
Speaker
What's not worthy about this case is that all the individuals involved were military professionals. The guard who carried out the military service at that time wasn't a conventional full-time serviceman, but rather the assistant into a military professional afterwards, and he served
01:23:16
Speaker
pursuing a carrier in the military as a technician or engineer for the rest of his life. So the Roman enemy case 71 has now solidified its place as one of the most substantial and authentic UFO cases in Finland. Its significance lies in the fact that it occurred within an army default area and all those involved were
01:23:46
Speaker
I mean, personal, just in a nutshell, this is the.
Significance of the Rovaniemi Case
01:23:51
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, this has been very educational. It's it's a great case. I think it's not only one of the, as you said, best cases in Finland, but also internationally. And this is why for me, it's really important to bring people like you
01:24:08
Speaker
on the show because abroad, no one really knows of such wonderful cases. So it's amazing. And you also have these different lines of evidence coming together. So eyewitness accounts, documentary evidence, and then even physical traces, unfortunately, which had a bad health impact on that individual. But yeah, very fascinating.
01:24:36
Speaker
Two things came to my mind as you were recounting this case. The first is, do you have any idea of what might be stored at that army facility? Oh, good question. Good question. Yes, okay. Yes, it took a couple of years, maybe three or four years until I began to think about it. Why?
01:25:04
Speaker
why the UFO was seen at this particular place and close to the tunnel doors. Well, suddenly I realized that where the UFOs have been seen worldwide, usually in the military area, at the military area, at the area where some way the nuclear weapons
01:25:34
Speaker
somehow related to this. Of course, I can guarantee because Finland is and has been a nuclear-free country as far as I know and always. By the way, I asked this question from the commander as well. He was a very nice polite man, but when I asked this, his attitude changed.
01:26:00
Speaker
Very, very quickly. It was a drastic change because he's a very nice, polite man. By the way, he celebrated 19th birthday, I think last week. I met his granddaughter at the psychic fair, or it's not really psychic fair in Helsinki, whereas I was lecturing two weeks ago in mid-October.
01:26:28
Speaker
And even her daughter, because she was interested in this kind of stuff, because the fear voice, like the name is something translated, something like the fear of the psychic affairs and the knowledge, a little bit complicated name, but that's the purpose. It's been about 40 years, every year in Helsinki. And I've been lecturing there earlier.
01:26:58
Speaker
And I had an interview, which lasted about an hour, a person who was writing a book. He interviewed for me about an hour. And there was two girls, or actually lots of people passing by. And this particular couple passed by several times. And finally, she came to me. And I'm the granddaughter, the round of Maria, the commander. And she told me that,
01:27:27
Speaker
She has asked about this case several times, but not even to her. He had not revealed anything. But I asked, okay, go ahead and continue asking. Continue asking. Maybe he will reveal something. And he was, by the way, finishing his book at the present time. And in a merrier's case,
01:27:56
Speaker
is another interesting thing is that he has translated a book about humanoids sometime in the 80s. I've never seen it, but I know that it's true. He had trends. So he have interest to the UFO phenomenon because otherwise no one couldn't go to the job and translate the book to Venice itself. He said, you know, I must
01:28:25
Speaker
Now it's a little bit easier today, but in the 80s you have to do it manually and nowadays it goes a little bit faster and it's probably a little bit easier. Anyway, it was a positive, nice surprise to meet her granddaughter who was interested in this phenomenon. And it was good to hear that he was still alive and in good condition.
01:28:55
Speaker
He's been an athlete throughout his life, and also a pilot, of course. He's a fighter pilot by his background, and we had lots of talk about the flying because I've been the pilot for 2,000 hours myself. And little addition, if you want to hear, right after the
01:29:25
Speaker
My lecture in Helsinki in September, someone called me a lady from Romaniemi. Originally, he had been working as a physiotherapist in Romaniemi. And he called me and said that I know the person. We're talking about Simon.
01:29:46
Speaker
I know him because he's been in her treatment several times and he knows the problems and she told me that he never told him what had caused those
01:30:04
Speaker
abscesses and marks on his skin. They were also on arms and elsewhere in the body, not just in the feet as we originally were aware. So he had treated him several times, but he never, never mentioned anything.
01:30:23
Speaker
The physical therapist told me that that was not good because he did not tell him what was the cause, that the radiation was the reason for the permanent mics on his body.
01:30:44
Speaker
So that was a nice little addition. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this started in 2006, and still we've got the little pieces of information. And if I may continue about the possible cause, why this spaceship, the flying structure, UAP, was
01:31:10
Speaker
parked in front of the tunnel doors is that I can't suspect that the only possibility is that there's something to do with the nuclear stuff and unofficial information. This is by no means anything that I can prove but
01:31:32
Speaker
a person, because I've talked about this many times in several occasions, told me that maybe the Swedish people, Sweden fans, to get their head prepared something to get there at 70s. I do not know, but that makes me wonder. And my point is that at that time, 71, we had Swedish dragon fighter planes and Russians mix.
01:32:02
Speaker
MiG airplanes. And I'm pretty much sure that they are not interested in those planes. They must have been much more important things, which has some sort of concern with the aliens.
01:32:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's also why I asked because there's a very well-known almost correlation between UFO appearances and the sites of nuclear storage facilities. You know, Robert Salas in the US and I think in Germany there have also been instances where this has been reported. So yeah, it makes you wonder what was at the other side of that tunnel is very interesting.
01:32:47
Speaker
I love cases that develop organically over the years where eyewitnesses come forward and you have more evidence that you can place together in that puzzle just to wrap this up is there.
Access to Military UFO Records
01:33:06
Speaker
formal procedure in Finland, like a Freedom of Information Act system, where if you want to gain more knowledge about a case, can you then write a letter to the government and they will disclose information, or does that as such not exist?
01:33:22
Speaker
Not the similars in the USA, the freedom of information, but of course we can apply the guy who found the four bases of the original army reports with the staples and names of the captain and whatever they were, so they are official.
01:33:44
Speaker
We have copies on our website, the fufora.fi, and this is case number. Unfortunately, it's not in English, so it is a little bit problematic. But anyway, anyway, they are available there. So we try to make English version on our website as soon as possible, but we have not very, very busy, but we can apply, we can apply,
01:34:13
Speaker
so-called forbidden secret information, but no law like that. Yeah, no, excellent. Heggie, you've been very generous with your time and it's been very informative. Absolutely amazing case study, great overview of what's going on in Finland. On a closing note, what's keeping you busy these days, what's on the agenda for
01:34:42
Speaker
Next few weeks.
Heikki's Ongoing UFO Work
01:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, although I'm supposed to be retired. I sold my major business, but I forgot to mention that in 2000, I started importing woodworking and metalworking machinery and also the ham radio equipment. And I sold it after 10 years, grew up very big business. And I thought that, OK, after selling the business, I have more time.
01:35:08
Speaker
But I've never been as busy when I've been past few years after selling the import, export business, what I had. We still have acupuncture product line, but my youngest son, who is an acupuncturist, he takes care of that.
01:35:29
Speaker
The UFO research gives me more work than anything else. And we have all kind of projects going on. We're planning now the next spring.
01:35:46
Speaker
a one-day convention, which will be in the city of Tamperin. I just booked Gary Heseltine from UK to one of the lectures. It's a one-day event. We have just one international speaker there.
01:36:05
Speaker
the two other guys from Finland who are very, very good experts on this field. And well, yeah, lots of things going on all the time and still perform Magic Ocean and many podcasts like this. There's several in the line waiting.
01:36:25
Speaker
But anyway, I enjoyed talking about this subject, so it's been great. It was great talking with you. Brilliant. Thanks a lot,
Heikki's Final Conversation with Simon
01:36:36
Speaker
Hege. Where can people find more about UFO research in Finland? I suppose your website is a good starting class. The problem is that everything is in Venice at the first time, so there's not much material in English.
01:36:55
Speaker
in English, so that's the problem we are trying to solve. We have to get some language experts who are willing to work because it is a lot of work translated everything to English. Of course, by using translator, you can go to our website is www.fufora.
01:37:23
Speaker
F-U-F-O-R-A dot F-I for Fora. So there you can find our main page and you're going to go to investigators or actually reported cases and there is about 2,500 cases reported. And this particular Romanemic case where I'm
01:37:52
Speaker
what I talked about earlier, case number 91. Case 91. With the translator, you can get a little bit further, more information than I was able to talk here. But I can tell you that there was many twists and turns in this investigation I didn't have time to talk about, especially with this person, Simon.
01:38:22
Speaker
By the way, he's already passed away about three years, four years ago. And if you want, I can tell you one more little addition to this, if you have time. Yeah, go ahead. About four years ago, I wanted to reconfirm a couple of things from Simon.
01:38:48
Speaker
I had his telephone number on my desk at least two weeks, and I thought that, okay, now I got to call him. Now I got to call him. Finally, one particular Monday morning, I thought that, okay, now I must do it. And I called him, and it took a long time that he answered, so I thought, probably he's not going to answer at all. I don't know what has happened.
01:39:17
Speaker
He answered, but immediately I realized that something is very, very wrong. Something is going on. Something bad is going on. I could tell his voice and his way to talk. And then he said that I'm waiting for an ambulance. I have a cancer, which is spread all over. I'm going back to hospital.
01:39:46
Speaker
Oh boy. And he was in pain. I can tell you that he was in pain and I thought of what I'm going to do. Can I ask anything? Because I knew immediately that this is the last moment. I'm not going to make this person anymore. So can I ask you one question? Just one question. I reconfirmed the time
01:40:10
Speaker
when this UFO case occurred because what I didn't tell here, we had the first, the first time we thought that it was 1974, which was find out a little later before I called him the correct time. So I wanted to confirm this. And I was going to ask you one question. And he was soft, kind of a soft speaking guy.
01:40:41
Speaker
raised his voice or anything. He was a soft talking guy. I noticed that he collected his strength and he talked very forcefully. There's a couple of three, four sentences.
01:40:59
Speaker
And he reconfirmed everything that when he was in army, it was 71 and they secured in August, August 23rd and so forth and so forth. And that was it. I called him the last possible moment, last possible moment. So that's one more extra incident to the case.
01:41:28
Speaker
So as I said, there's many, many, even more things that are somehow remarkable. Yes, it really is a remarkable case with many different facets on, you know, the mystery continues. It's going to be very exciting to see what further evidence crops up. We managed to get the rest of the documents.
01:41:50
Speaker
Yes. But we know that they have most likely they have investigation report, what it was, but they didn't want to reveal what was the conclusion to the case. So that's why they released only the four pages, the four pages written in Dravaniemi and signed by the captain and whatever officers. Fascinating.
01:42:20
Speaker
Heiki, you've been very generous with your time and I'll make sure to include all online resources where people can find you, including the show, the documentary produced last year, which is amazing. I will also link that in the description. And yeah, it would be great to have you on the show again at some point. I feel you're working a lot of things simultaneously, which is very fascinating. And yeah, thank you so much.
01:42:48
Speaker
Thank you very much. It's my pleasure. Bye bye.