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5: Modelling UFO activity in Ireland and beyond
243 Plays1 year ago
I am joined by Dr Eamonn Ansbro, Director and Research Astronomer at Kingsland Observatory in Ireland, to discuss his more than 30 years of research into UFOs. Based on the systematic and critical analysis of thousands of UFO reports Dr Ansbro was able to develop a scientific theory to model UAP activity on a global scale. This theory could be successfully verified by fieldwork.
In this episode you will learn about
- How Earth may be under automated surveillance by hundreds of probes, following orbital tracks
- UFO hotspots in Ireland
- How academia, in particular SETI, and the media reacted to Dr Ansbro’s theory
- The significance of developing a science-backed way of communicating with forms of extraterrestrial intelligence
Dr Ansbro on ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eamonn-Ansbro
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to UFO Complexity
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode number five of European UFOs. I'm your host Sebastian and if you like this episode then please make sure to subscribe and leave a review it really helps.
00:00:26
Speaker
While UFO sightings are by no means few and far between, they often take the form of one of events paired with seemingly unique characteristics. Not only do UFOs appear in all sorts of shapes and sizes, they also occur in different places at different times, from deserted country roads to bustling urban centers. At face value, UFO data present a complex, if not the same messy picture, that is difficult to make sense of.
Earth Under Surveillance?
00:00:51
Speaker
However, in northwestern Ireland, there's one scientist who has taken up that challenge. Dr. Eamon Ansbro, director and research astronomer at Kingsland Observatory, has been studying the UFO phenomenon for more than 30 years. His research concludes that our planet is under automated surveillance, using hundreds of probes operating along orbital tracks that are synchronised with the Earth's movement.
00:01:15
Speaker
with positive results. This conclusion has been field tested in Ireland and other countries. Its implications, however, are undoubtedly of global significance.
Interview with Dr. Eamon Ansbro
00:01:27
Speaker
Hello, Iman. It's great to have you today. How are you doing? Thanks for inviting me, Sebastian. I look forward to this interview.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, me too. A lot actually, because we're going to get into that later, but I actually grew up in the area where a lot of your research is focused on, so that's of particular interest to me. Eamon, you are a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society of UK SETI.
00:01:57
Speaker
And with that background, how did you start working on the UAP UFO issue? I'm asking in particular because traditionally SETI hasn't shown too much of an interest in UAP. So I think it's quite interesting if you could elaborate a bit on how you got started on this. Yeah, sure. Well, independently from SETI well before
00:02:27
Speaker
I actually got involved with SETI. I mean, the only involvement I had initially was back in the early 1990s, reading the proceedings from every conference. But then I gradually got involved then by the year 2001. I suppose, I think during the
00:02:48
Speaker
OK, with the UAP research, OK, how did I get into it? Yeah. Well, actually, it was through another astronomer, funny enough. His name was Herman von Belligen, a Belgian astronomer, director of one of the establishments here in the Republic of Ireland. And I knew him very well because I used to give presentations to that establishment.
00:03:18
Speaker
Um, but one day he said to me, I think it was around 1990. Uh, he said, look, we're getting it because he knew my background professionally was in meteorology as well as astronomy. All right. Um, so I had, you know, hadn't worked for the ministry of defense in the UK, uh, as a meteorological observer when I was a young guy. And then that led into more advanced work in meteorology.
00:03:48
Speaker
And then astronomy then came into my life as well. So I have an understanding about atmospheric physics. I'm a trained, I'm a professionally trained observer. All right, so that's really important when you're dealing with the UFO area. And then from an astronomical point of view, I'm trained in that area, I have some degrees in astronomy as well. And
00:04:17
Speaker
I also have the skills dealing with design and instrumentation as well in a wide range of areas. So that's another key thing as well. So, you know, you'd meet a lot of astronomers, it's all theoretical, where in my case, yes, I had theory, of course, but I also had the practical and hands on to someone coming from an older era where I'm able to make things design and make.
00:04:45
Speaker
which is sort of a rather lost in these days with younger generation, you know. So how did I get into it? Right.
Investigative Approach to UFO Reports
00:04:55
Speaker
Well, Herman von Belligen, he told me that for about three years, they were getting telephone calls from the public about these balls of light in the sky. And I was actually looking for as a coincidence, I was actually looking for another project to do.
00:05:13
Speaker
And I said, look, I'll take this on, you know, seeing I have that background. So I did, he gave me all the telephone numbers of people, witnesses to these balls of light. And it was about 20 people I met all together. And I was totally confused of what they were saying. I didn't make any sense at all to what I knew about meteorology, astronomy, all these areas. All right. So I decided, I said, well,
00:05:43
Speaker
As I'm totally confused, I don't want to leave it at that. I'm really, really curious. Any scientist should be curious. I looked into it further, and in fact, I thought the best thing actually was to meet many people. Now, how am I going to do that? Particularly when you're dealing with balls of light, what people are seeing. Now, by the way,
00:06:10
Speaker
UAP or the old name UFOs, I was familiar with from way back. However, I then set up a meeting which ended up with 70 people turned up to it. I was really surprised, and thanks to Herman van Belligen, he did advertise this, but without using his establishment.
00:06:40
Speaker
that people come along to this hotel. So from there, I met many other people and I decided, well, I think I better do this on a monthly basis because I want to meet many, many, many people.
00:06:53
Speaker
So there's a statistical side to it trying to get data on all this, and that was my approach. Well, it should be an approach of anti-scientists just to get data, but in this area, we're dealing with a subjective situation, which on a statistical basis may show that there's a common features to it all, and in which there was. And actually, I had researched out
00:07:16
Speaker
other centers where you could get statistical reports from the US, the UK, and the French as well. I got about 15,000 reports, which were either multiply witnessed or single witnesses. There were recordings as well in that. But that was enough actually to show that this was common.
00:07:44
Speaker
throughout the world. It wasn't just in America. I got stuff from, well, eventually from South America and Europe as well, and also as far as Australia and New Zealand. So I was realising, yes, that this is really common throughout the globe, these characteristics of these balls of light or UAPs or whatever. But what I
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, so also what was also extraordinary, that it was more than the ball of light that people were seeing in some occasions, they were seeing a construct, they were seeing a shape to it. And that also interests me as well. Then there were some actually witnesses that it had such a meaning for them. So it wasn't just, you know, you could say, well, a street
00:08:39
Speaker
say a car light at a distance, well, what's the big deal? It's a car light. But in this case, there was some other phenomena involved in this. And I'm not a psychologist, but you have to be true to what you're observing. You have to take in not just the light, which I'd be used to dealing with photometric analysis of stellar light. But in this case, you have to open it up to a larger reality, basically.
00:09:09
Speaker
So I had actually studied other historically other actually other scientists back in the past, which were involved in metaphysics. And metaphysics is where you're dealing with the large area, the real reality of life itself, and not just physics itself. I mean, there was a complete transformation culturally back in the 1830s.
00:09:37
Speaker
from metaphysics into physics.
00:09:44
Speaker
Indeed. Yeah, thanks a lot for elaborating on that. And I think what makes your work really important and also unique in many respects is that you were looking for patterns and also statistical correlations within that data set. Because I think what happens a lot with the UFO topic is that you have these
00:10:08
Speaker
you know huge sightings occasionally and you know they're witnessed by multiple people but they often occur or seem to occur as one-off events and I don't know to my mind and perhaps for many other people this kind of one-off character makes it a very kind of intangible phenomenon so I think your work is very important in that you were looking for patterns and actually showing that hey
00:10:35
Speaker
This isn't just down to unique one-off events, but there's actually an underlying structure here. We're now at the stage where you caught your interest, you gather data. How did you go about analyzing this rather large data set?
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, back in those days, I had a very old computer operating system, I can imagine, from the 1980s, and using Fortran, you know, if anybody remembers Fortran. Okay, I broke everything into categories. And actually, it was very useful to be aware of reading the likes of J. Helen Heineck's works as well, who came up with that standardization to do with the close encounters.
00:11:22
Speaker
So I use that as part of it and also with the breakdown that actually helped me to realize that, well, there's a lot more to this than just a ball of light.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, brilliant. And so you discovered patterns, but what kind of overall theory guided you in discovering these patterns that you then that you were then able to determine? Did Dutton's role, Roy Dutton's work play a role in that? Because reading your quite important 2001 paper, I think, which set a lot of things in motion, I
00:12:07
Speaker
It's just one of the names I came across, so I thought I'd ask you about him. Sure. Well, I wrote a number of articles back in 1992 dealing with patterns and cycles of the UAP, and also I did some 3D modeling as well of the most likely routes that... Now, this is a complete hypothesis at the time. You know, this is the way we work in science, that, okay, if it is extraterrestrial,
00:12:36
Speaker
advanced and even taking the mask off to do with technologies of the future and not to be limited by the physics that we know at the time. Could they well have an understanding of their planetary affairs wherever they came from so they were able to expand out
00:13:05
Speaker
So if you're expanding out three more stars as we go to another star system, that's 50 light years away, you're not going to be using the electromagnetic spectrum for communications. And it's very unlikely you're going to be using conventional rocketry, chemical rocketry. It's completely out of the question. So for any civilization to evolve,
00:13:31
Speaker
Well, that's my own opinion, of course. So you'd have to be using some sort of faster than light travel, using some sort of faster than light communication type system. So this was the model I worked on to do with the most likely routes within 60 light years. Because at the time, the data at the time to do with stars
00:14:01
Speaker
and beyond the solar system to get accurate astrometric readings, photometric, whatever, and movements was actually still limited. So I actually only got about 60 light years dealing with about 300 stars altogether. So that was one aspect to it. And so those two articles came out in 92, 93. And I knew actually that
00:14:32
Speaker
Oh, yes, it was actually Roy Dutton in the UK. He was an aerospace engineer. And he actually seen my articles and contacted me. And we ended up actually joining forces. So I worked with him. Well, certainly when I was at his place, I planned it. I spent a number of days, you know, he could see where I was coming from, I could see where he was coming from.
00:15:01
Speaker
Roy had done this independently for me, of course. And I said, look, I can support you what you're doing, because I think I like your theory. I think it's a bit more mature than what I've been doing. So that's what we did. And I also wanted Roy to, Roy wasn't the person, how shall we, into traveling. He was retired.
00:15:32
Speaker
very much a theoretician. But of course, he's coming from the aerospace industry as well. And he wasn't too happy of putting his name on papers. He was
00:15:52
Speaker
It's like, you know, you'll probably realize that we're dealing with a subject matter at that time, 30 years ago, which was either it didn't exist in people's minds, or it was just a big joke. And here we are trying to do serious work on this. So how do you how do you, you know, break that, that worldview? Yes. So anyway, I took it on and
00:16:21
Speaker
we integrated some of my research that I did, which did fit us some of Roy's as well. So we decided, look, we'll call it your theory, the dud and nest, an oral theory. However, since then, I've actually advanced it
Challenges in Scientific Acceptance
00:16:40
Speaker
even further. And I will have a paper coming out.
00:16:43
Speaker
in due course, which goes beyond all that again. So that's where I'm at now. Yeah, excellent. And could you describe what Dutton's and your theory was about and how it relates to orbital tracks and the idea of UAPs potentially surveying this planet?
00:17:09
Speaker
Okay, well, the inspiration for me was Professor James MacDonald. He was a meteorologist. And he, in 1968, surprisingly, a UAP or UFO, as it was at the time, Congressional hearing, wanted the conclusion on this whole UFO situation. And I always remember the quotation,
00:17:34
Speaker
I mean, I would have been a very young guy at that time. I didn't know that at the time, but it was just during the early 90s when you were researching this, who else has been working in this field? Very, very few. So he concluded that there was a tentative surveillance of the Earth by UFOs, and that's the quotation to the Congress. But then you have this huge gap in between then of whatever, 50 years.
00:18:05
Speaker
before we could develop it any further.
00:18:09
Speaker
And so in your work with Dutton, what exactly did your theory conclude or hypothesize? Because what I found really intriguing when I read your seminal 2001 paper is that actually, so the entire idea from what I grasp behind your theory is that you're able to predict certain events. And I think that's really fascinating and sort of ought to be,
00:18:37
Speaker
you know, the standard of any scientific theory, really? Sure. Well, we're not predicting anything. Just to correct you there. We're providing windows of opportunity when these events may or may not occur. And it's all based on accurate timings of the witnesses. And that was an issue because at the time when we're inserting all the data,
00:19:06
Speaker
from, well, I mean, the ideal situation is to have multiply witnessed observations. So it came down to about 1300, which was actually a rather a limitations, really a small data set. I would much prefer if it was about 10,000. So what it is, Roy,
00:19:33
Speaker
I think more of Roy's stuff, actually. We would see it as a controlled autonomous surveillance of the Earth by the UAP. This was based on past data reports going back to the 1880s. You're in pre-aeronautical times. Now, mind you, before 1900 or before the Wright brothers flew in 1903, I think it was,
00:20:01
Speaker
There was an interpretation of things in the sky. And there's even a history behind that as well, going way back hundreds of years. So you have to take in the cultural side of this as well. So what we came up with was something that was testable. So we had produced computerized timing graphs.
00:20:28
Speaker
from the model, but for the model to work, it had to work within plus or minus 20 minutes. If it was outside that, these would be just outliers. Anyway, that comes back to the 1,300 reliable data points. We tried it out actually for the first time in, let me say, oh yeah, I think it was February
00:20:57
Speaker
February 97. And I wanted to make sure that not only was it multiply witness, but also recorded as well. And we actually invited UK television over as well, because I had heard that they were doing a documentary on the UAP area. So we ended up with about 20 people altogether. We actually did get our first recordings.
00:21:23
Speaker
And that was shown on television in both the UK and the US, I understand. But interesting enough, it was very disappointing because they were only showing very short footage of this and they had their own. It's like you're in a situation because of the world view of thinking or perception of the world itself. It didn't allow actually that this does not fit
00:21:53
Speaker
are reality. So you have to think in a different way. But unfortunately, I just found at the time, so many people conditioned that they seem to be heavily influenced by previous historical situations that this doesn't exist. So you can imagine the dilemma one is in here. And
00:22:19
Speaker
I did criticize the editors behind this, which I wasn't involved with. I didn't have editorial discretion, but that was the first time we did it scientifically. That's the point I'm trying to make.
00:22:31
Speaker
No, thank you. Yeah, I mean, you can still see this conditioning life in action, perhaps even more than ever, you know, with one of the most groundbreaking stories that just came out last last month, actually, on the legacy media, really not picking it up. So, you know, speaking of
00:22:49
Speaker
David Grush revelations and then also the congressional hearings, but I think that's a topic of a different debate, but I think the conditioning you refer to is still very much life in action.
00:23:04
Speaker
According to your work and your theory, if I understand it correctly, there are these orbital tracks around the planet that are synchronised, right, with the rotation of the Earth. And what we're able to do, do intersections play there? So you have different tracks going around the Earth and add intersections
00:23:30
Speaker
certain things happen if I understood correctly, or could I likely to happen? Yeah, we discovered 660 orbital tracks around the Earth. So if you can imagine, they're like hoops. They're at a distance, well, it depends where the the construct is, the intelligent construct is, at about 26 kilometres.
00:23:56
Speaker
So it's actually below the borderline of space and the atmosphere. So it's just inside by a few kilometers. That was a surprise. So they're not actually using gravitation in the strict sense. Naturally, they're just like artificial satellites. So where do we go with this?
00:24:20
Speaker
I was just asking you what potential role intersections play there in your model when these different orbital tracks come. Yes. We actually checked out and were there for either recordings or witnessing 27 locations altogether in eight countries. Now, in some of these countries, we'd only have one person there, which we weren't too happy about.
00:24:51
Speaker
But in Ireland, the UK, France, Italy, we had multiple witnesses to it. And that actually supported the model when the event occurred. We actually, you know, like in anything in science, if you make one, we'll say a discovery, then you're building up your knowledge for maybe there's something else. And that's the way we did it incrementally. So there was incremental discoveries as we went along.
00:25:21
Speaker
And we were finding that the model was sort of working, and on other occasions it wasn't working. And I think this was due to the data input, it just wasn't enough. Because when you're dealing with 1,300 reports, and then you have 660 orbital tracks, you're only talking about two points.
00:25:47
Speaker
So, you know, we would love to have six or eight, ten, you know, many of course, of course. Absolutely. So, is the idea behind things, events potentially happening at these intersections that there's one
00:26:04
Speaker
delivery track for probes and one recovery track. Am I summarizing this correctly? So there's one track that delivers a probe and then the other one at that intersection potentially picking up the probe.
00:26:19
Speaker
And that's the most likely location then where you could potentially see a probe or a craft. It's a very similar method that was used with the Apollo mission back in the late 60s. Now, we're not saying, when I say Lee, I mean, I'm speaking to the third person here,
00:26:43
Speaker
It doesn't necessarily mean it's the same craft that's delivering and retrieving. Our opinion is that when I went through it with Roy Dutton at the time, was that we thought it might be two craft here. Yeah, two separate craft. Exactly what you mentioned there, Sinastian. We also had unusual situations would occur at an event where, yes, multiply witnessed,
00:27:13
Speaker
We got recordings, but then we would get a report in. And by the way, I made sure this was going out to the media. You know, it wasn't just a private situation. I wanted the media to be involved in this too.
00:27:27
Speaker
you know, to have many, many people come into these events. And we successfully did that. And in one event that actually happened in Sligo, County Sligo in the Republic of Ireland, which you'd be familiar with, is that there was one event where it happened in Lock Key near Boyle in County Roscommon. But it also happened 30 kilometres outside of that, like another construct
00:27:56
Speaker
happen at around the same time. We were puzzled by that, and the only thing we could come up with was that if we're dealing with the probes, these would be monitoring type probes, reconnoitering at the time of the event, and where at the same time you have another object that's witnessed 30 kilometers away, but it was a different type of construct, different shape to it.
00:28:26
Speaker
The only thing we could figure out that it may be an occupied craft, it wasn't just an artificial probe of some sort. So it may be occupied, could be piloted, I don't know. But I'm giving you that as an example of the incrementalization of discoveries. We think this is how they may do it. If there's something of interest at the time, they will go outside the actual track.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining. So a lot of your research focused on the Lockheed area.
Significant Findings in Ireland
00:29:01
Speaker
Given that that's the area where I coincidentally also grew up, could you perhaps expound a bit on that? What's so interesting about that area and what did your fieldwork show? Well, interested of I had a history some years before relocating to the Lockheed area.
00:29:20
Speaker
And I based it on a foundation historically of West Cork because it was there actually that the significant amount of research was done, witnesses, the modeling came into position. That's where we tested it out in the early days and it was working on three occasions. However, I heard through others that there was another part of the country,
00:29:50
Speaker
250 kilometers away, that similar type of events were occurring. So I actually got an invitation by the town commissioner from Boyle indirectly through others and came up. And I honestly thought there'd be only five or six people that would be interested. I was amazed. There were 70 people turned up
00:30:12
Speaker
And it was like, good God, you know, they can't be all off their heads. You know, there's something really seriously interesting here. And I met about 15 witnesses after that. And I found some of the sightings here through these witnesses, absolutely extraordinary. They're even better than what I was getting in West Cork. Anyway, I had to make up my mind. I came up then a second time, two months later. I
00:30:42
Speaker
discussed it with Roy Dustin at the time, what was going on here in Lock Key. He reminded me, he said, look at the tracks, they're actually running through Lock Key. I said, oh my God, that's amazing. I thought, right. Then came up again, did another presentation. There was about 40 people this time. It was all in the media here locally.
00:31:09
Speaker
And then I decided, okay, I've got to come up with some instrumentation. So I did. So I knew that mid-December of 1997, there was going to be an event occurring. So especially came up, I had other colleagues who had traveled as well, in the hope that this event would happen. And sure enough, we actually got our first recording.
00:31:35
Speaker
of the UAP. That's amazing. And not only that, it was within plus or minus 20 minutes, it fitted the model. And secondly, because there was quite a bit of media attention at the time, I mean, in a more localised way. But we found out that through the surveillance, that some of the orbital tracks were also
00:32:03
Speaker
intersected at the same time in two other locations in Ireland, like if it was shared tracks. That's about the best way to put it. They were sharing these tracks. So I knew that well beforehand, and lo and behold, we did get not recordings, but from others actually had seen this other event. Because you have to realize, we only had a very
00:32:32
Speaker
a certain amount of manpower, you know, but it did confirm the other location. Yes, they actually did also. The other thing is, I felt fairly confident that I think it was two months later, it actually went on national television, it was on the late late show. And so I was I was delighted about that. So we could expose ourselves to something that
00:33:01
Speaker
was an issue from a worldview for an enormous amount of people. Well, as I told you before the interview, I'm very familiar with the area because I spend a lot of hours around lock key, walk going for walks with our three dogs. And it is, just to give our listeners perhaps a flavour of the area, it is very enchanting.
00:33:26
Speaker
Place i am just not that beautiful lake surrounded by the forest park and yeah it's it's it's really lovely and even as a kid i was feeling that it's i think that's where to describe it really isn't enchanting out.
00:33:43
Speaker
And speaking of which, I mean, you know, not to get into muddy waters here, but obviously Ireland is kind of well known for its fairy lore and, you know, rich folklore. Is there any indication that Ireland has more of these intersections which then could potentially be the backbone of that kind of folklore?
00:34:09
Speaker
That's something I was wondering as I was researching your work on the intersections. Well, Ireland is actually not, it's not unique in this. Okay. We only discovered, what was it, five intersections in Ireland, but the UK has multiple intersections, Germany, all the countries have. So, Ireland is not unique in this.
00:34:36
Speaker
And do crop circles and other phenomena that are usually associated with the UFO topic, do they play a role in this? So do crop circles, for instance, occur in proximity to these intersections? Is there any evidence to suggest that?
00:35:00
Speaker
Well, I think dealing with the crop circles, it's so spread out, and particularly those counties in the UK. Wilshire, I think, is probably one of the most popular spots. But to have something that's accurate in the intersections,
00:35:17
Speaker
You know, because you're dealing with, I was going to say, the manifestation of so many crop circles, you know, spread over Somerset, what is it, Wilshire. Yeah. So the interest, I mean, yes, there are intersection intersections there. But I, you know, you can't really say, well, is there a correlation with it? I don't have, I don't have an answer for that one.
00:35:43
Speaker
No, but I think that's completely fair. And if we can't really back it up by sign, so it just remains a theory. So that's a completely fair answer there. So when you were doing this work and then you published some of it, how did your colleagues respond to it? I mean, it also got some media coverage. So what was the general feedback from academia? Well,
00:36:12
Speaker
Okay, from a media point of view, when the recordings were shown on the Late Late Show, there was a response from the media. And unfortunately, the response wasn't good. I could, I mean, I really get irate with the sniggering that goes on. And I can tell it, you know, and
00:36:41
Speaker
It's like I felt actually after a while, I think I did a number of, I was on television twice, I think radio two or three times here in Ireland. And to be honest with you, I really felt, well, do I need all this, all the sniggering going on? I'm trying to do scientific serious work here. Maybe there's such a dichotomy here with Diniwood psychologically, that maybe it's not the right time. Maybe in 20 years, it might be the right time.
00:37:12
Speaker
for this when people sort of wake up to this reality. So that's to answer your question after the first recordings came out. That's before the paper was published now. That's right. Yeah. So how was the reaction to your paper, the 2001 paper, which I believe was part of a conference proceedings, if I'm not mistaken?
00:37:38
Speaker
That's correct. Yes, this was a whole lead up to this. So you can imagine if one was trying to provide a paper of this nature, it would be fairly substantial. It could take at least 20 or 30 pages, we'll say. But because of the nature of the conference, it was an old SETI conference. It was a different aspect of SETI.
00:38:03
Speaker
And because it was under SPEA, the Society for Photo-Optical Instrumentation Engineers, it's an annual event, is that you're only limited to three or four pages. So I thought, well, the only thing we could do here is actually show some background historically, and then lead into a theory, but not going into all the dynamics behind it. You just couldn't do it.
00:38:31
Speaker
unless you had an appendix which is about 30 pages. So the only thing was to show a location with results. And we knew the location, the best one of the best ones, because Project Heston and we knew we'd been going for a number of years. I also knew Dr. Erland Strand at the time. And we felt that was the best one to use as a location for these events.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, I actually just had them on the podcast a few episodes ago. And yeah, the work has been doing this since the 80s. It's really groundbreaking on some fantastic results there. And so when you presented the paper, were your colleagues generally interested? Because I have a background in academia, so I know how these conferences go. And sometimes, you know,
00:39:27
Speaker
silence is also quite telling in many respects. So how did they how did they react to this perhaps rather groundbreaking? Sorry. Okay, first of all, you have to wonder psychology of people, there was about 500 at this conference, a lot of interest and setting at the time. So when you're coming up with a paper,
00:39:55
Speaker
that's actually put it because SETI is so transfixed on the electromagnetic spectrum and picking up signals away from the Earth. In other words, they're looking for signals, some ETC beyond the Earth, beyond the atmosphere. What I was dealing with was within the atmosphere. It's like in our backyard.
00:40:18
Speaker
Now, I was only hypothesizing this. So when I presented, it was about 30 minutes, I could actually see in the front, people going white. All right. It's a funny, it's a funny feeling that you could, but I just kept going on. I thought, well, okay. The reaction after was, okay, number one, I wasn't invited to the dinner.
00:40:47
Speaker
a person came up to me and that was the first reaction. Number two, they had their dinner picture, but it was the next morning and I'll say his name out. Professor Harrowoods from Harvard, who were into optical setting, you can check him out, but he came to me and he said, look, we have a problem with your presentation.
00:41:14
Speaker
50% of the people at dinner, it was the talking point at the dinner, at which I wasn't listened to, thought that I had perpetrated a hoax on the community. That was number one. The other 50% said, well, this guy has data. He's showing her. So there must be something in it. So there was absolute confusion here. Then the third day, which is the final day of the three-day conference,
00:41:42
Speaker
Now, typically, when you're at these type of conferences, you have a panel at the end for further Q&A or whatever from the audience.
Academic Struggles and Optimism
00:41:53
Speaker
So like some others, I went up the avenue towards the panel. There was two or three others in front of me. And so it was my turn. I said, look, I understand there's a problem with my paper. But just to let you know, I have no problem at all with it. I have the data on this.
00:42:12
Speaker
And there was another reaction to this. Actually, it was Paul Harrowoods again. He stood up from the panel. I think I'm okay to say this because it's all historical. I don't know if he's still alive, but he stood up and came right down to me and stroked me on the shoulder. He was really irate with me being there. This was upsetting people.
00:42:37
Speaker
I was a threat to the establishment of SETI, what was going on. Then when it finished, the chairman came down to me and his name is Stuart Kingsley. So I mentioned these names, they're real people. He said, look, he repeated again, look, we have a problem with your paper. We're not going to get this published.
00:43:07
Speaker
And secondly, I said to him, I have no problems with the paper. I have all the data on this. Well, he said, well, we assumed your paper was going to be the same as everybody else's, meaning that because we had that assumption,
00:43:27
Speaker
We had a committee on the in the inwards flow of papers that would come in, proposals or applications to give a presentation. And our committee didn't have time to look at your paper. So we assumed it was like everybody else's. Well, I said, look, that's all problem. I tell you, I had a lot. I was all by myself on this. By the way, I'm pretty empowered and strong on this stuff.
00:43:55
Speaker
I'm not going to be a victim to this.
00:44:07
Speaker
And an academic discourse is there to test different ideas against the available data and not to promulgate certain ideologies. So it's a completely fair statement. And if you can't do that within the scope of an academic conference, then where can you? So you should be able to present scientific theories there.
00:44:35
Speaker
I also understood before I was going there that I was going to deal with a situation where UAP UFOs don't exist. That's number one. Because the worldview was as it is that this either didn't exist, SETI had never looked in this at all. I had to use a different language here.
00:45:02
Speaker
I actually changed anything to do at UFO UAP as AOP, anomalous observational phenomena. So AOP is all over the paper. Number two, I used interstellar probes. Now, that's acceptable because there were previous papers back in the 60s dealing with interstellar probes that would enter in the solar system. I think there's some well-known
00:45:30
Speaker
papers at the time. Gosh, I forget his name now. I was back in the early 60s showing the replication of a probe and so forth. For them, it's a dilemma. For me, it's not because what I decided is that because they were refusing the paper,
00:45:58
Speaker
I tell you, behind the scenes, the majority didn't want this paper. Number two, others had seen the presentation.
00:46:14
Speaker
And in their opinion, there was something in it. I can mention some names, Dr. Massimo Theodorani, to Dr. Scott Stride, Hoover, a guy called Hoover, who was the head of the origins, Dino at NASA, I think it was, and stuff like that. So eventually, I was asked, I think because of these others,
00:46:39
Speaker
It was decided that, okay, look, we better dilute this paper, as they say in another language, water it down somehow to make it more palatable. So I did. And what you have actually is the result of it. But it was a lot more comprehensive than that. I also gave up, I think it was after about three or four months, I sort of gave I said, oh,
00:47:08
Speaker
They're not going to publish this. And it was two weeks after I got out of the blue that they would accept the paper. But that was diluting it over a number of increments.
00:47:27
Speaker
Perhaps a change is on the horizon because this year in March, I believe it was, Avi Loeb and Sean Kirkpatrick published a paper that is uncannily similar in many respects to your theory and your work.
00:47:44
Speaker
And just to quote a certain passage here, they referred to the, and this is the quote, the possibility that an artificial interstellar object could potentially be a parent craft that releases many small probes during its close passage to Earth, an operational construct not too dissimilar from NASA missions. So this is in 2023.
00:48:12
Speaker
So having read that paper, one could potentially be optimistic that at least in academic circles, the topic is becoming more acceptable. And I think if one looks closely, it is with the new journal Liminal as well, being a platform where serious scientists can publish their work on this.
00:48:38
Speaker
So perhaps to wrap up this section on an optimistic note, I think let's hope it is possible in the future to get into more serious work and publish this in academia. I think that would be very, very good.
00:49:01
Speaker
Tell me a bit about how in the field, because your work in the observatory, in Kingston Observatory, plays a big role in this. How are you going about setting up the fieldwork infrastructure to track UAPs and to investigate this issue further? Well, as you probably know, did set up instrumentation, fairly sophisticated.
00:49:30
Speaker
So you're dealing with an all-sky camera system near Lockheed, and then there's two tracking platforms. The two tracking platforms are basically two other similar instruments, but they're more powerful so you can get close-ups. Also, the range of instrumentation was designed at the time back in 2000 and then executed in 2001, 2002.
00:49:59
Speaker
So it's over 20 years old. But in that, I'm using visible recordings, visible and also infrared. And I also introduced gamma ray detectors as well. Also having the two tracking platforms at a distance apart gives you the triangulation and therefore the distance to an object when both are tracking at the same time.
00:50:25
Speaker
So we've got a number of recordings. Some of this material has been published over the years, not in papers, because it would have been rejected.
Tracking UFOs at Kingsland Observatory
00:50:39
Speaker
So they've gone into other authors books. So I was quite happy to, I was approached on this. And, you know, I provided whatever is needed for that, for those books.
00:50:55
Speaker
It's like when you're rejected in your papers, you come out with a book. That's the norm. Yeah, I know how it goes. I've actually gone further than that because there about 2016, I decided that because we're dealing with an intelligence here, how would we communicate?
00:51:25
Speaker
So actually, I work with another scientist. His name is Dr. Hugh DC. He's a master physicist. He used to work with ESA for about 30 years, European Space Agency. But both Dr. Hugh DC and myself, we think outside the box. And he was well aware of the whole SETI situation, where they're operating.
00:51:51
Speaker
So we're assuming that we're dealing with an intelligence here that's doing the surveillance around the Earth. How can we do the communications? So we actually conceived a design of how we could do this. And we've had a number of failures in the early stages because we're leading into what's called quantum superluminal communications, that is,
00:52:21
Speaker
faster than like communications. Again, in physics, that's not acceptable, because they're saying relativity just does not fit with this. But if you're dealing with the quantum mechanic type world, then it does fit. And that's what we're doing. We're in quantum mechanics now. So we're still got some time to go yet. We did some tests there last year. They didn't work again.
00:52:52
Speaker
I'm optimistic that, well, both QT experiments are optimistic, that we learn from our failures. And because I understand no one has actually done this before in the world, you know, faster than communications, there seems to be huge resistance because of the physics or the current historical physics that is there. So you have to go into the whole QM area.
00:53:16
Speaker
So yeah, so that's where we're at. I think by next year, what do we do? Yeah, I think by next year when we do the next test, because we're actually modifying the system now, we've learned from previous times, that we might strike gold. And I mean, what we're trying to achieve for Sebastian is the precursor before the QSC. The precursor is telephone, anti-telephone.
00:53:44
Speaker
a tech methodology. So in other words, we're looking for time latency. If we could achieve, say, a quarter of a second or a second ahead in time or in the past or whatever, we're not dealing with nanoseconds here. We need to have something substantial here to lead into the next step. I mean, what I do really appreciate is, you know,
00:54:09
Speaker
stemming from your work, finding these patterns, you then, you know, thought through the consequence as well.
Quantum Communication vs. SETI's Methods
00:54:16
Speaker
Okay, so if there are, you know, UAP craft in our atmosphere, how did they get here? And the only way to really, I mean, it kind of
00:54:27
Speaker
brings it to the conclusion, well, it has to be faster than light, FTE, technology. Otherwise, it's probably not possible. They didn't use chemical rockets, at least. And this is something I never really understood about the SETI approach focusing on radio waves on the electromagnetic spectrum. Because, I mean, this is like going back to the Stone Age to communicate with someone who, in intelligence,
00:54:57
Speaker
It just doesn't make any sense to me and never did. And I don't really understand where this is coming from. But probably that's a subject of a different debate. And I think the great value in your research into QSC is that it would facilitate instant communication as opposed to the electromagnetic spectrum where whatever
00:55:24
Speaker
extraterrestrial intelligence receives from us is, you know, thousands of thousands of years old, any potential signal. So I think that's really fascinating.
00:55:37
Speaker
And it does make me wonder though, and perhaps this is also a good way of concluding our chat, do you think we are ready, let's say this work, do you think we're ready as a species to communicate with whatever might be visiting us? Yeah, this is kind of an open and a big question, but what are your thoughts on this?
00:56:08
Speaker
The signal dropped there. I think I heard what you said. Hello. Yeah, hi. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think I heard your question. Okay, well, this is my own opinion, of course. All right. I think we are ready. And the reason why we're ready is because there's a whole development of the awareness that even going back many decades,
00:56:36
Speaker
50% of the blockbusters are dealing with extraterrestrials. The ordinary wife in the kitchen is probably familiar about ET. There's an emotional aspect to it. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that there is an awareness about there is other life out there and even older roper poles over the decades.
00:57:01
Speaker
even recently. People are saying, I think it was around 80% now, think, yeah, there has to be something out there. It can't be just us, you know, when we're dealing with all these thousands of planets that have been discovered in the last 10 years. So yeah, I think we're ready for it. Now, I mean, the only the only thing is those that have hard beliefs in the many aspects of that to do with religion or whatever, could have a hard time with this one.
00:57:33
Speaker
However, there are some religions where it is acceptable. Even the Roman Catholic Church, they seem to be warming to this for the last 20 years. It's a big subject, but I think from a psychosocial point of view, globally, I think we'd accept this. And also, it brings in, I think in a very optimistic way, not only a new level of awareness,
00:57:59
Speaker
onto the planet that this has happened. Secondly, I think the strife that's out there geopolitically could completely ease off the realization that there are extraterrestrials here, if it is extraterrestrial, and that they've been here quite a while, but they haven't invaded us. In all the Hollywood movies, it's all invasions or whatever.
00:58:28
Speaker
So we're dealing with a fairly passive type of intelligence that's there.
Are We Ready for Extraterrestrial Contact?
00:58:37
Speaker
So anyway, that's my take, and I'm optimistic. I think contact would be wonderful. And also, it'll bring us into the cosmic community, hopefully, from there.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are voices out there that would claim that the entire, and I'm not really sure what to make of it, but the UAP abduction phenomenon, et cetera, doesn't always have positive implications. But this is, again, a different, perhaps a topic for a different time and day.
00:59:16
Speaker
But I would concur that if we have the awareness that there is something visiting us, not only the awareness, but also the data to corroborate this, it is almost a moral imperative to try some sort of communication with whatever that intelligence may be. I think it's just within human nature to try and do that, and we should do it.
00:59:46
Speaker
So thanks a lot, Iman. I think I myself learned a lot. I hope the audience as well. And it would be great to have you on again on another episode, perhaps next year, once your experiment, once you have more data on that with the QSC. That would be lovely.
01:00:06
Speaker
Just where can people find out more about your work? Is there any websites you'd like to mention? I can direct people to research papers you'd recommend.
Where to Find More on Dr. Ansbro
01:00:22
Speaker
I really don't know. Well, we do have a website, SETI Kingston, but that needs to be upgraded and that's what
01:00:35
Speaker
it's a few years behind. So I think one has to be patient on this one. So yeah, I think that might be one thing, but you probably even just Google me. And yeah, there's a number of presentations I've made interviews. I think APEC would be one alternative propulsion, sorry, alternative propulsion energy conference. I've been on their
01:01:05
Speaker
twice now, I think. And there's certainly an insatiable appetite for this, because even when I was on Sky Television last year, now I had a complete blank for 20 years of not dealing with media at all. And then it happened last year. And then that caused quite a reaction for other media. And then came out in the Irish independent there about three or four months back.
01:01:34
Speaker
And I think it was about 350,000 views. Actually, the journalist came back to me and said, well, we were supposed to have this, well, they had a front headline of something important nationally. But he said, in your case, it was only 50% of the views for this big headline, for the other stuff. But he said, this journalist said, he rang me up, he said, the editors were amazed of the reaction to this.
01:02:05
Speaker
So you can see deep down human beings, they want to know more about this, not all the other political stuff. Absolutely. And as he said, you can be found quite easily online. But I ought to put you, if that's all right with you, your research gate profile online, because I think you've listed quite a few important papers there. So that definitely helped me a lot to learn about your work.
01:02:35
Speaker
Excellent. Thanks a lot, Eamonn. And yeah, all the best for your work. It's very important. And yeah, hope to have you on again soon. Well, in case of Aston, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.