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13: Scottish UFOs
178 Plays6 months ago
Today’s episode of European UFOs delves into the captivating realm of Scottish UFOs.
Nestled in the remote corners of Central Scotland lies a village that has served as the epicentre of UFO sightings and close encounters since the early 1990s. Bonnybridge, framed by rolling hills, farmland, and misty moors, has earned its reputation as one of Europe’s most notorious UFO hotspots.
In Scotland, UFO encounters often extend beyond mere sightings, with reports of direct interactions and abductions. Notably, the Dechmont Woods and the A70 case provide compelling evidence, offering insights into the abduction phenomenon.
Joining us to explore Scottish UFOs is Malcom Robinson, a seasoned researcher with over 40 years of experience. Malcolm's extensive investigations, documented in 12 books, include some of Scotland’s most haunted places and UFO incidents, such as those in Bonnybridge, Dechmont Woods, and the A70 abduction. Through our discussion, we uncover Scotland's profound and complex history of UFO activity.
More on Malcolm Robinson
Strange Phenomena Investigations: https://strange-phenomena-investigations.ueniweb.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Support Request
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome to European UFOs. My name is Sebastian and if you liked this episode then please leave a review on your chosen platform. Any sharing and liking you do makes a huge difference to the algorithm and is very much appreciated.
00:00:28
Speaker
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00:00:43
Speaker
Today's episode
Scottish UFO Activity Overview
00:00:44
Speaker
takes you on a tour de force through the mysterious, uncanny and at times rather shocking world of Scottish UFOs. In the remote corners of central Scotland, an area steeped in myth and legend, one small village stands out as the epicentre of UFO sightings and close encounters, at least since the early 1990s.
00:01:03
Speaker
Set against the background of rolling hills, farmed and unmissed immors, the small community of Bodybridge has seen its fair share of UFO activity, making it one of Europe's most notorious UFO hotspots.
00:01:17
Speaker
Sometimes UFOs and their occupants are not only seen but may directly interact or rather abduct witnesses. In this regard, Scotland has produced some intriguing evidence. It comes in the form of the Deck-Mitt-Witz and the A17 cases, both of which provide a wealth of data to explore the abduction phenomenon.
00:01:36
Speaker
Here,
Interview with Malcolm Robertson
00:01:37
Speaker
with me to discuss Scottish UFOs as Malcolm Robertson, a seasoned researcher with more than 40 years of experience under his belt. Malcolm has written 12 books on the paranormal and UFOs, and has investigated some of Scotland's most haunted places and UFOs, including Bonnybridge, Declanquitz, and the 870 production. As my discussion with Malcolm shows, Scotland is certainly a country with a profound and complex record of UFO activity.
00:02:06
Speaker
Hi Malcolm, great to have you on the podcast.
Malcolm's Paranormal Origins
00:02:10
Speaker
Hi Sebastian, it's lovely to be featured on your show, looking forward to it. Excellent. Malcolm, you are an absolute legend in the world of paranormal research and ufology. You've appeared on many TV shows, researched some of the most haunted places in Britain, as well as ufological hotspots. So what got you interested in all of this and how did you get started?
00:02:35
Speaker
Well, I've always been interested in the world of strange phenomena. Ever since I was a small boy going up in central Scotland, I had this deep held fascination for all these things that was weird and wonderful.
From Skeptic to Believer
00:02:49
Speaker
And when I was younger, my family took us down to theme parks in England.
00:02:55
Speaker
Blackpool, for instance, the town of Blackpool had a big fun fair at the Pleasure Beach and the first thing I went to was a ghost train. I just loved the ambience and going through and all these spooky things jumping out of you. And as I grew older, I started to read a number of books by Charles Fort, Eric Van Dannigan, Jenny Randles,
00:03:19
Speaker
I was aware of and watched some of the wonderful television programs coming from the United States, The Lights of the Outer Limits, The Twilight Zone, and then of course they were the big blockbuster movies of their day, the day they stood still, one of the world's forbidden planet, all introduced to my young and
Founding of Strange Phenomena Investigations
00:03:39
Speaker
inquiring mind, this fascination for all things weird and wonderful.
00:03:44
Speaker
and later on obviously we had the initial Star Trek by you know featuring William Shantner and Leonard Nimoy and so that was a kind of catalyst if you like you know for that but I also remember when I was a small boy a very young boy maybe about eight or nine reading a book at school
00:04:06
Speaker
called The Man from Mars and it was about the spaceship that had crashed into woods and these two young boys bumped off school and they met this alien and they took them on these wonderful journeys so again it was all these little things it's like a jigsaw all these things Star Trek, Day of the History still all combined to
00:04:27
Speaker
help push that fascination towards what I was doing. Now I must say Sebastian, it's very very true that when I started to look seriously into all these subjects, I didn't believe a word of it. I did not believe there were such things as ghosts, poltergeist, UFOs, what a load of nonsense I thought to myself and I decided to set out in a one-man crusade to try and disprove these subjects
00:04:56
Speaker
But like everything else in life, how wrong was I? You know, once you get your hands dirty, once you put your feet...
00:05:05
Speaker
firmly in the camp of these wonderful stories, once I started to interview people, I soon realised, I soon realised that there were no smoke without fire, clearly something was going on here. And in 1979, I formed my own society in Scotland, entitled Strange Phenomena Investigations. The aims of our society are basically to collect, research and publish
00:05:33
Speaker
accounts relating to most aspects of strange phenomena and to purposely endeavour to try and come up with some answers to account for what President alludes us. And this wonderful
Transition to UFO Research
00:05:45
Speaker
journey has taken me all over the world. I'm the first Scotsman to lecture on UFOs in the United States of America. That was in Loughlin, Nevada. Also Strasbourg in France, Utrecht in Holland, Carrick and Shannon in Galway and Ireland. And just last year,
00:06:02
Speaker
I was invited to present two lectures and board a Marella cruise ship off the north coast of Canada and America, which was wonderful. So yes, that's basically how I got started and that journey of which we'll talk about later on in your show has just opened up a massive line of inquiry into these wonderful subjects.
00:06:25
Speaker
And when you got started with all of this in a more serious manner, researching all sorts of paranormal events, was the ufological angle already present then, or were you basically looking into ghosts, apparitions and those sorts of things?
Research Landscape in Scotland
00:06:44
Speaker
Well, admittedly, it probably was more the ghostly side of my young, inquiring mind, but it wasn't until
00:06:52
Speaker
the Dick McWoods encounter in 1979, which I was there, I saw the march on the grass, I helped investigate, I spoke to the police officers, that really pushed me off that fence, that skeptical fence, it was like a big hand pushing me off the fence into the believers camp, or for want of a better word,
00:07:10
Speaker
So once that deckman woods case hit my inquiring mind that just opened the floodgates and and it made me realize that hey wait a minute you know these things there's something going on in the skies of not only Scotland but the rest of the world as well.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I think we're going to get into the Deccament Wood's case later on because it really is fascinating. I think it's a case that, you know, deserves globally way more attention in the ufological community. When you started with your own society, SPI, what was the paranormal research landscape like in Scotland back then? I assume there wasn't too much going on in Scotland at that time.
00:07:54
Speaker
yeah surprisingly they were not um you know they were hardly i don't think they were maybe there was just probably one little UFO group they were next to nothing in Scotland looking at the the paranormal and UFOs and um obviously i just had to change that landscape and once i formed SBI we put a notice in the newspapers to attract members we held club meetings
00:08:21
Speaker
we invited guest speakers and the more notoriety that I received I was invited down to England to speak at lectures etc but at that time to answer your question it was hardly anything in Scotland so I was so pleased to get that ball rolling and really make things happen.
00:08:41
Speaker
So if you had a UFO case back in the 70s in Scotland, who would get involved in proper research there? Would that be Bufora, basically the British UFO research society? Or in whose responsibility would that be placed such a case?
00:09:00
Speaker
Well actually I'm glad you mentioned that because I actually became a researcher and member of Pufora and I was tasked to look at some UFO incidents in Scotland.
Experiences in Haunted Houses
00:09:12
Speaker
I also became a member at that time of MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network.
00:09:17
Speaker
and I met some of their members in Walt Andress I met back in the day in London at a conference and so it was really just to introduce myself and it's like a big blanket of putting over all these people and trying to find out more but yeah that's what we did back then yeah
00:09:36
Speaker
You already mentioned the Dejmond Wood's case as really showing you that there's more behind this and that debunking probably isn't an approach that's particularly warranted in these instances. Was there anything on the paranormal, the apparitions side of all of this that got you hooked where you would say, well, there's really more to this because you started out a skeptic.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the paranormal side of truth be told, and it still is the case today, plays more a big part in my life than ufology.
Rigorous Investigation Methods
00:10:13
Speaker
Ufology's there, don't get me wrong, it's up there. But really, when you put yourself in haunted buildings, when you experience oppressions, when you get slapped, as I've done, when you get your hair pulled by nothing, like I've done,
00:10:29
Speaker
you get kicked etc you soon realise that nobody around me, nobody is near me and yet somebody's pulling my hair. I've seen some astonishing things in haunted houses. I'll just give you a very very quick for instance we were dealing with a haunted house in Stirling which is a large town in central Scotland
00:10:51
Speaker
and the lady of the house had a lot of paranormal events happening things flying off the shelves pools of water mysteriously appearing on the floors and she was getting nipped and topped etc and we were in this haunted bedroom all the equipment was running the video recorders sound recorders nothing nothing was happening and i said to myself oh my goodness me why do i do this why do i do this then bang
00:11:20
Speaker
Suddenly the whole room was illuminated by thousands and thousands of tiny pinpricks of white light. It's like a children's November the 5th handheld sparkler, all these sparks flying off.
00:11:35
Speaker
And I said to her, psychic, what on earth is this? Oh Malcolm, that's pure psychic energy. It was covering the walls, the ceiling, the floor, your clothes, your hands, it was everywhere. Then after about maybe 20 seconds, it just diminished.
00:11:53
Speaker
and the room was enveloped into black and gay darkness again. So with fingers crossed, we rushed towards the VCR cameras and equipment, pressed stop, pressed rewind, pressed play in the hopes that we had captured this fantastic spectacle.
00:12:15
Speaker
nothing nothing but blackness now if we had a caught this wonderful spectacle Sebastian then the skeptics of the world would have said oh very good you've made it on computer you've done this you've done that sometimes it's so hard to convince people of the veracity of paranormal and mythological phenomena you know it's one of these things that you've got to be there in the ballpark to see yourself getting it second hand third hand is no good
00:12:45
Speaker
And what we're trying to do with our society is just say look, look, have a look at our evidence.
00:12:53
Speaker
You don't need to believe it, but this is a testimony. Here are the photographs. With any given case on UFOs, Sebastian, we must dot the I's and cross the T's. And what I mean by that is we have to check with the police. Did any members of the public see a UFO in the given vicinity of our witness? We checked with the Ministry of Defence in London, where any air exercise is ongoing at the time of a given sighting.
00:13:22
Speaker
We check with the national airports, the provincial airports, smaller flying clubs. We check everything we can to get an evaluation and a proper answer to any given UFO sighting. You know, you've got to do that. Every investigator worth his or her salt must dot the I's and cross the T's. And the vast majority of UFO sightings, as high as 95%, can easily
00:13:52
Speaker
be explained away as natural mundane objects. The 5% that remains, 3% of
Growing Interest in UFOs
00:14:00
Speaker
that 5 could be our own black budget technology. The stealth aircraft was flying in America for a number of years and that gave rise to many false UFO reports by ground-based observers.
00:14:16
Speaker
And some of the technological advances in aerospace today is astonishing, you know, we have to be very careful. So that leaves 2% of the 5. 1% of the 2 could be a rare atmospheric phenomena, something akin to ball lightning. The 1% that fly in the ointment for me is truly something unusual, truly something that we
00:14:46
Speaker
currently can't explain. UFOs as we know have been seen throughout millennia. They've been seen in cave arts, they've been seen in Renaissance paintings, they've been mentioned by many rulers of the planet over centuries. They're still been seen today, the Scandinavian ghost rockets of 1946. And then we move on to what's happening now. It seems like the technology is moving with our technology.
00:15:13
Speaker
And I would like to give you my thoughts later in the show as to what I think, and I could be wrong, but what I is going on later in the show. Well, we'd love to hear that. And Malcolm, I really appreciate your approach because it's very rigorous and very transparent. And I think in a subject that is, you know, ridden with all sorts of, you know, methodological pitfalls like you followed, that's very, very important. All this very transparent layout, how you went about witnessing
00:15:43
Speaker
and interviewing witnesses and yeah, I think a lot can be
00:15:48
Speaker
learned from your approach to doing serious ufological work. So before we move on to some very intriguing case studies in Scotland, I was going to ask you about your estimate of the current situation of ufological work in Scotland and how do you think the current situation is in Scotland? Is there a lot of
00:16:15
Speaker
research going on. There's a lot of interest in UFOs.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Scotland as a nation has been touched by the UFO presence, of course it has, just like any other country in the world. Since 1979, when we formed the SBI, there have indeed been other UFO societies sprung up, as well as ghost research societies. So Scotland's doing rather well when it comes to research by other like-minded individuals.
00:16:47
Speaker
As far as how it's perceived in the public eye, many newspapers still contact me and ask me my thoughts on a sighting that happened in their neck of the woods. So, you know, they're actually coming to me, which is great. And we in Scotland, that is SBI, every year we put on a massive big conference in Glasgow. It's a Scottish
Bonnybridge UFO Hotspot Exploration
00:17:12
Speaker
UFO and paranormal conference. It's held at the Queen Margaret Union
00:17:17
Speaker
in Glasgow and we have one coming up on June the 15th next month and we also for our members and Tysar members to come along to our sky watches mostly in the town of Bonneybridge where sightings have been seen and we'll speak about that shortly and also the Ace 70 and Decknut Woods these sky watches are there to inform people of what can be seen in the sky you know these small pinpricks of white light
00:17:47
Speaker
slowly traversing the skies. When I was younger I thought these were UFOs but I now know it's obviously just satellites but for those unsuspecting minds they might think it's a UFO it's not it's just a satellite. So we inform members of our society on air skywatches what can be seen in the sky if you look at any aircraft you've got the red green
00:18:10
Speaker
and white navigation lights sometimes in misty cloud that may look mysterious but it's not it's just an aircraft turning at an unusual angle so we try and educate people to to see what's in the sky and then because we're in a kind of hotspot or a window area like Bonnie Bridge or Deckmouth Woods then you're you're in the right environment for perhaps to see something unusual an anomalous
00:18:38
Speaker
And it's always a good thing to educate the people of SBI and others who want to come along.
00:18:46
Speaker
And how would you characterize the position the media has taken in Britain and perhaps also in Scotland towards anomalous phenomena? Because from what I remember, there is quite a lot of attention in Britain towards these sorts of things, but it's also often rather hostile, belittling the testimony of witnesses and so on. What's your experience after more than four decades of researching
00:19:14
Speaker
these things aren't interacting with the media? Yeah, I mean, because I'm at the front line of all these stories, the media, I've worked with the media extensively throughout my 45 years involved in this subject. Sometimes they can be good, sometimes they can be bad, sometimes they can distort stories. For instance, I was dealing with a haunted house and the journalists, excuse me, the journalists was with us on this haunted house investigation. And it was lovely.
00:19:45
Speaker
he said Malcolm will cover the story honestly and when the story came out in the newspaper it was a total rubbish and I quickly telephoned the journalist why did you do this to me why did you do that and he says Luke Malcolm it wasn't me I submitted the story to the editor and he says like it's too nice let's give it arms and legs let's put salt and pepper on the story and take it out somewhere else
00:20:14
Speaker
Excuse me, that's the way that some of these journalists work. But in the main, they've been okay, they've been writing about these stories in a genuine manner. It was pretty bad back in the day, but I think as more TV shows have came on, movies, they recognise that these things are indeed the real deal and so they're given a lot of their time and newspaper columns to it, yeah.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, and I suppose it's also a double-edged sword because on one hand, you know, we, like people in the ufological community conducting research on these issues, do want news coverage because that's the early way of getting the message across to a larger audience. But at the same time, you know, you ought to expose yourself to perhaps certain currents within the media that aren't particularly nice or conducive to promoting serious research on this. So yeah, I completely get it.
00:21:11
Speaker
Malcolm, you've already mentioned Bonnie Bridge and I would love to hear more about this because I think it's already season four of Skinwalker Ranch in the US airing, which also has become known as the hotspot of UFOs and all sorts of weird paranormal activity. I think it's really worthwhile exploring a
00:21:36
Speaker
What could be characterised as a similar hotspot perhaps in Europe, in Scotland? And that is Bonnie Bridge. So yeah, really, really intrigued to hear more about that.
Specific Sightings in Bonnybridge
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah, for those listeners who's not aware of Bonnie Bridge, I mean, I was working with ancient aliens last year and that came out just last month in America and also here in the UK. Excuse me,
00:22:04
Speaker
We had the Unexplained by show with William Shatner. That was also dealing with Bonnie Bridge. So you can still see that this Scottish hotspot is still in demand, still by various news people all over the world who still want to learn about it. But for those who's listening to the show just now, Bonnie Bridge is an area in the central belt of Scotland and Stirlingshire. And it came into prominence back in 1992.
00:22:32
Speaker
with the UFO sightings in the area. Now there was a gentleman involved in this. He was a counselor by the name of Billy Buchanan.
00:22:44
Speaker
Now Billy Buchanan was elected to serve the people of Bonnybridge in any way, shape or form. Little did he expect that his constituents would come knocking on his door saying, hey, I've seen something weird in the sky and I want you to tell me what it is. What's going on here? Is it the government? What's going on? And as he was elected to serve the people, he couldn't turn them away.
00:23:09
Speaker
And I cannot give enough praise to Councillor Billy Buchanan for helping these local people. And anyway, he went on a radio show.
00:23:20
Speaker
and I heard this radio show. This is November 1992 and I was listening to this gentleman, this Councillor Buchanan, explaining to the radio audience all about these UFO sightings and I just knew, I knew that I had to help Councillor Buchanan. So I immediately got in touch with the radio host and the putman touched me, Billy, and he was so glad, so glad to meet me.
00:23:46
Speaker
Here was somebody from a recognisable beautiful body who's prepared to help and assist and find out what's going on. So first of all we spoke to a number of witnesses then we held a meeting in the Norwood Hotel in Bonneybridge
00:24:04
Speaker
which attracted upwards of 200 people, most of whom had sightings that they wanted to relay and get off their chests. And like I said a moment ago, we had to research through airports, the police, etc. to find out if they had any reports. And it was clearly something that was ongoing. The sightings in Bonnybridge comprised of not just like two saucers joined rim to rim, your classic flying saucer ship.
00:24:30
Speaker
There were also cigar shaped objects, balls of light that would drop down from the sky into fields and I'll speak about these in a moment.
00:24:39
Speaker
So clearly it was a big situation that was developing. And like anything newsworthy, not just the British tabloids and media got involved, but as did numerous foreign television stations from all over the world. We were dealing with Japanese television, for instance. They came over from Japan. They did a big story on that as well. I would also like to say that
00:25:06
Speaker
There are a number of age groups from young people, middle-aged people, elderly people, all seeing these strange shapes in the sky. There were police officers, firemen, normal people, just dual blogs, you know, seeing these things in the sky as well. But I should point out that even before I met Councillor Buchanan and in the 1992 sightings, I had been dealing with UFO reports 10 years before Bonnie Bridge
00:25:35
Speaker
in 1982, and that was in a small town called Denny, which sits near Bonnybridge, a few miles away from Bonnybridge. So, you know, sightings went as far back as that.
Government Inquiry Efforts
00:25:48
Speaker
Now, some of the sightings that was occurring in Bonnybridge, there was a gentleman, for instance, who was driving near the Castle Carrey Viaduct.
00:25:58
Speaker
It was a railway viaduct that spanned across a motorway and as he was driving along there, he saw a large black triangular craft sitting near above this viaduct. He's driving and he slowed down the car and he peered through the windscreen of the car and he noticed that other drivers were slowing down as well
00:26:24
Speaker
that single triangular object was soon joined by a secondary triangular object they were point to point and all the cars are slowing down looking at this amazing spectacle and then suddenly bang it was like an elastic band these two objects just disappeared quickly in the sky there was another gentleman
00:26:48
Speaker
who was taking his wife to the bingo in the Bony Bridge area and he had his two young sons in the back seat of the car and as they were travelling back to Denny on a small B road not a very big road you know just a small road and there were fields on either side and then suddenly his two young sons screamed out Dad! Dad what's that?
00:27:13
Speaker
And the father looked to the left and he saw this two-tiered object with three green lights on its underside, part on a field and part above the road. And he knew, he knew, just like most people, that this wasn't a conventional aircraft or a conventional helicopter in any way, shape or form. And suddenly, an instantaneous, it was like a fog bank, but a vertical,
00:27:42
Speaker
tall vertical fog bank about 16 to 20 feet high appeared in front of his car about 30 40 feet in front of his car just on his side of the road it wasn't a misty fog bank that you get in misty mornings early mornings nothing at all because this
00:28:04
Speaker
was sharply defined, sharp edges. It was like a door, but it was misty. And as soon as the car went through that misty door, it was like an electric, static effect. It was like pins and needles all over his head, all over his shoulder, all over his body. And he went through that and he said to his sons, can you still see this object? And they said, Dad, it's flying away to the small town of Grangemouth.
00:28:34
Speaker
And again, it's just one of the many UFO stories that's been featured in Bonnie Bridge. We had a mother, a daughter, and her son was walking on the moors behind the town of Bonnie Bridge. It's all farmland and fields. And they're walking along this kind of farm path. And then suddenly this blue ball fell out of the sky and landed on the road next to a field. And as it did so,
00:29:02
Speaker
this wire fence that was sitting adjacent to the field started to vibrate and shake and then suddenly this blue ball took off into the sky. So like I said a moment ago it's a combination of what appears to be structured objects and light phenomena as well. We also had a
00:29:22
Speaker
a sighting in Polmont which is near the town of Bonnie Bridge and the story goes with this one was that two young men were taking their camera to take night photographs of the Grangemouth petrochemical plant which is near Bonnie Bridge and as they set up their camera they became aware of a red ball of light
00:29:48
Speaker
coming from the Okle Hills which is a mile or so away, a couple of miles or so away from the area and then this light came so quickly it stopped about 200 feet above their heads and started to lower itself down on the two gentlemen. One of the gentlemen had to bend over backwards with his camera and took a photograph of the underside which some of your listeners will find on
00:30:16
Speaker
the internet. If you type in Poemont reservoir UFO photograph, the photograph showed a circular object with a concave underside and it's throwing off light and the normal investigation we did showed that there were nothing flying in that air at that time.
00:30:39
Speaker
Now, Councillor Buchanan and I have been down to 10 Downing Street on numerous occasions with petitions signed by the people of Bonnybridge and Stirlinshire asking that the British government open up a governmental inquiry into these sightings. We've petitioned various Prime Ministers, Gordon Brown, John Major, Tony Blair, David Cameron. It's all
Government Secrecy and Challenges
00:31:05
Speaker
fell on deaf ears.
00:31:07
Speaker
The statements we're getting back from 10 Downing Street and Whitehall and the Ministry of Defence say that as these objects do not constitute a threat to the defence of the United Kingdom, the British government will not seek to open up any governmental inquiries as to what these sightings are. Now, Sebastian, we are so annoyed and angry at these statements because some of the people in Bonnybridge said,
00:31:35
Speaker
The object was so close I could have thrown a stone at it. They're educated people, they know that it's not an aircraft or a helicopter. Bonnie Bridge is on the flight route to Edinburgh Airport, Glasgow Airport and Cumbernauld Airport, so the people of Bonnie Bridge know that they're normal aircraft overflying that area, but these are unlike any particular aircraft that's been seen in the skies, you know.
00:32:00
Speaker
Yes, so I think what's really fascinating about Bonnie Bridge is this red thread of really close proximity events and counters. And for the authorities to say that there's no national security aspect to this is a bit bizarre, really. So I do understand your frustration with that, particularly given that you've tried it many times. So
00:32:26
Speaker
What do you think that resistance comes from do you think they know something we don't know or is it really that there is or is it more or less a bureaucratic thing I don't want to get involved because it's too much work too much you know paper shopping going on or what what's your take on that.
00:32:44
Speaker
Well, clearly there is something going on for sure. For instance, under the Freedom of Information Act passed initially in America many years ago, many pre-classified government documents were released which clearly showed that the CIA, the NSA and the FBI
00:33:01
Speaker
were actively involved in looking at the UFO subject in the United Kingdom eventually and slowly we got drip fed these reports. Now when you look at these A4 reports which you can actually find online, they're actually a lot of it's heavily blacked out paragraph after paragraph
00:33:19
Speaker
Now, some people have said, oh, that's just the witness's address, their name and address. Yeah, that's fine. Of course, yeah, that's fine. Black it out. But why is it continually all blacked out? So there's clearly something going on. Now, I think that the governments of this world do know a hell of a lot more than they say, you know. Back in France,
Psychological vs. Physical UFO Investigation
00:33:42
Speaker
for instance, there was a gentleman, a French government official, openly declared
00:33:47
Speaker
that France had a UFO problem. There are a lot of people out to muddy the waters, Richard Doty and various other people who let people believe that what they were looking at was a genuine UFO. When those people know all along it's just a new prototype drone and they'll use the UFO cover story as yeah, yeah, yeah, UFO, yeah, yeah.
00:34:13
Speaker
when it's just a new designed aircraft or aero form, we have to be careful. Like I said before, there's many things flying in the sky which is our own technology and we have to understand and accept that, but not them all. I would not be in this wonderful field of study if I truly and honestly didn't believe
00:34:36
Speaker
that mankind is dealing with some form of non-human intelligence, something that's always been with us. And if it's not, then there must be some form of global psychosis. But I don't think that either. I truly think there's something going on in the skies of planet Earth.
00:34:55
Speaker
And
Witness Reluctance and Testimony Collection
00:34:56
Speaker
even if it were a purely psychological phenomenon, which by the way I don't subscribe to either, even that would be worth researching and very interesting. So regardless of how you spin it, it's worth investigating. So with these close proximity encounters, were there also physical effects that people suffer from being close to these orbs of light or structured craft? Was there anything of that nature?
00:35:24
Speaker
Well, I must admit, as far as that goes, as far as I'm led to believe, there haven't been any. Haven't said that. Who knows? Maybe there are effects. Maybe there are people holding back. I'm sure you would agree, Sebastian, for every one person who puts their hands up and says, I saw it. I saw, yeah, for how many people behind that one person, two, three, four, five, also saw it, but wouldn't come forward for fear of ridicule.
00:35:53
Speaker
And that's the problem we have, not just in ufology, but with ghosts, etc. Many people experience the strange world of UFOs and ghosts, but they'll never come forward for fear of ridicule. And this is why I'm looking to reach out to these people and say,
00:36:09
Speaker
We'll give you a folks name, you know, we need your story because ufology is a one big massive jigsaw puzzle affecting the whole world that we need to put the pieces together and somebody may have some information that could prove beneficial to other given sightings so we have to be careful with that, yeah.
Comparison to Skinwalker Ranch
00:36:29
Speaker
And as I already said in your introduction, it's an area of Bonnie Bridge. I received much of media attention, but also much attention in the ufological community. And is that right that Stephen Greer also visited you back in the 90s to have a look at Bonnie Bridge and do some research there? That's correct. Stephen Greer did come over to Bonnie Bridge.
00:36:56
Speaker
back in the 90s with his team and they looked at some of the evidence that we had. I wasn't involved with his visit I must say, there was other researchers at the time and I'm led to believe that he took away a piece of video footage which was great evidence which we never got back so I'm led to believe if that's wrong I apologize but so people tell me
00:37:22
Speaker
But it was great to have Stephen Gray over because obviously the C-30, his protocols etc are interesting. We should never ever poo poo somebody's bizarre ideas just because to some people they seem outlandish and ridiculous. Let us not forget
00:37:40
Speaker
We laughed at Thomas Edison, we laughed at Marconi, all these people, these engineers and scientists who said these things are going to work. We laughed at the Wright Brothers, where at Kitty Hawk, man's first flight, that'll never get off the ground. Oh, sorry, it's got off the ground. So what I'm trying to say is some people tend to laugh and poke fun at things that sound outrageous.
00:38:06
Speaker
and we should never ever do that because mankind were at the bottom rung of an extremely long ladder of understanding and let us not forget that planet earth is but a tiny tiny grain of sand on a huge cosmic beach it's incomprehensible to think that we stand alone in the vastness of the cosmos
00:38:29
Speaker
Very, very true. Is Bonnie Bridge, to your knowledge, are there any other paranormal events apart from UFOs going on? Because, you know, I think to take the Skinwalker Ranch example again, there is a, you know, different, different manifestations of weird happenings there. Can the same be said of Bonnie Bridge or is it really only UFOs?
00:38:59
Speaker
It's really only UFOs. I'm like yourself and your listeners. I've watched the Skinwalker Ranch series and I've been astonished by what's happening over there. There's clearly something very, very bizarre in that area. Whether it's anything to do with the engines
00:39:17
Speaker
who conjured up these skinwalkers, it's part of their history, is debatable or is it something more mysterious than that? It's clearly a focal point, a window area, a hotspot, which is not, as you know, not just UFOs, we have these strange creatures being sighted, etc. So, Bonnie Bridge unfortunately is just purely UFOs.
00:39:41
Speaker
just like various other hot spots across the world, you know, Australia, the Noliburg Plains, et cetera, Gulf Breeze and Pensacola. But as far as I know, it's just UFOs in the Bonny Bridge area, yeah.
Why Do Hotspots Exist?
00:39:58
Speaker
What's your personal take on these window areas? Is there anything special about Bonny Bridge, in your opinion?
00:40:06
Speaker
And there's nothing special that we can, because it's a question we've been asked many times, you know, is there something unusual in the Bonnie Bridge, Stirling Shire area that could prove interest to others?
00:40:20
Speaker
quotation marks. And they're not really, they're not any air force bases, there's not any nuclear facilities or anything. It's just an area, a beautiful area of central Scotland, which is covered by towns and fields, etc. So yeah, we just, to be honest, we don't truly have a logical explanation as to why Bonnie Bridge was singled out
00:40:49
Speaker
by this attention. I remember when Councillor Billy Buchanan, who's worked with me in the Bonnie Bridge Sightings, he was asked by a journalist, why Bonnie Bridge? And Billy's answer was, why Bethlehem? Meaning, why was the baby Jesus born in Bethlehem and not somewhere else in Canada or something? So it's
Importance of Reporting Evidence
00:41:12
Speaker
maybe a rhetorical kind of question, but we don't know, we don't know.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, and some mysteries will never be solved, but I think it is an interesting thought experiment to go through those sorts of questions. Now, Malcolm, you already said that it's very important to collect and report on all sorts of evidence, even if it doesn't chime with our current understanding of the world.
00:41:38
Speaker
And I think the A17 abduction cases are very interesting in that respect. Could you give us an overview of perhaps starting with the Detriment Woods case, because you said it was also your first UFO case, you probably investigated, so I'd be really intrigued to hear more about that.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah I mean
Deck-Mitt-Witz Encounter Details
00:42:01
Speaker
the Deckman Woods case is a massive case and that was the case in 1979 when I was still trying to prove that UFOs were nonsense.
00:42:10
Speaker
that took me off the fence that I mentioned earlier. And how it all started for me was I read, well it was a combination of things. I heard about it on the radio and I read a piece in the newspaper about this gentleman who had seen this UFO in Dickmunt Woods. Now Dickmunt Woods for your listeners is an area in the central belt of Scotland, probably about 10 miles or so from Edinburgh.
00:42:36
Speaker
And so what happened was now a gentleman, Robert Taylor, he was employed by the Livingston Development Corporation. Livingston is a small town near Edinburgh and near the location. Now it's fair to say to yourself Sebastian and your listeners
00:42:54
Speaker
that Bob was a war hero. He went over to France on D-Day 5. He was in a tank regiment that helped liberate Bergen-Belsen concentration camp and they know the horrors of the Nazis with what they did there.
00:43:12
Speaker
and various other camps in Poland and Germany itself. So he was a war hero. When the war finished, they settled in Scotland. He got employed by the Livingston Development Corporation in the Forestry Department and his job effectively was to ensure that no cattle or sheep strayed into the woods, he had to you know make sure
00:43:34
Speaker
that the woods were in good shape very very mundane job but he was happy to do it he was an outdoor man he loved outdoors and like most people he had heard about UFOs read a little bit about them but he wasn't really involved in ufology it wasn't a fascination for him he just hadn't heard about it like most people
00:43:57
Speaker
all that changed, all that changed for on the morning of November the 9th 1979 he jumped into his pickup truck accompanied by his irish red setter dog Lara and they drove partway into Deckmont woods he alighted out of the pickup truck and he started walking along this forestry ride
00:44:21
Speaker
trees to his left, trees to his right. And he walked several hundred yards down this forestry ride and he came upon a clearing in the woods and he stood transfixed. He couldn't believe what he was looking at. For there in the air about 30 to 40 feet above this clearing was this large domed shaped craft.
00:44:46
Speaker
with a flange going around its perimeter, with cross-light projections sticking up from its flange, and then suddenly it dematerialised.
00:44:56
Speaker
then rematerialised, dematerialised, rematerialised, they could see the young trees in the background, then it was solidify again, and his dog was bark, bark, barking furiously beside him, and he's standing there, he can't comprehend, you know, what is this thing? He knew it wasn't an aircraft or an helicopter, then as if the bizarre scenario couldn't get any weirder,
00:45:20
Speaker
It did, for what resembled two Second World War sea mines. Those spherical balls with the wee prods sticking out bounced about in the North Atlantic shipping lanes during the Second World War. Similar to that, descended from beneath this hovering object and impacted on the grass. They started rolling across the grass towards him, making a sucking or a popping noise as they did, so they stopped.
00:45:51
Speaker
and they projected his rod-like projections towards his person, grabbing him forcibly at the hips. They pulled him upwards and towards this larger object, and at that point he lost consciousness.
00:46:09
Speaker
Now before he lost consciousness he remembers a horrible burning smell pervading the whole area he likened it to burning brake linings you know if you put your foot down very sharply on the brake pedal in your car sometimes you'll get that smell coming up from the foot well he likened it a wee bit like to that and he also recalls a kind of swooshing or a swooshing sound and then bang he lost consciousness
00:46:38
Speaker
when he regained consciousness and were not too sure how long he was out for but when he regained consciousness he had a nasty graze under his chin he had a graze on his head he had a
00:46:50
Speaker
The hounding headache and a terrible thirst. He noticed that there were over 40 holes or marks in the grass. Circular, triangular and two track length marks in the grass which were not there before. Certainly not in his previous walk in the woods the days before. He managed to stumble back to his pickup truck and he tried to radio base and seek of some help.
00:47:18
Speaker
but he found that he couldn't speak yet, his voice, his throat was all dry and he was all, he was totally, his coordination was not there because he reversed the truck into a small shallow ditch so the back wheels of the truck are spinning, spinning he couldn't get any traction, he couldn't get away so he managed to stumble back home to his town, a small village called Dinns
00:47:43
Speaker
which is near Livingston and when his wife saw him coming down the driveway she went, what on earth has happened to you? Because his trousers are muddy, his trousers were torn, his jersey was muddy and he says, I've been attacked.
00:48:03
Speaker
You've been attacked, attacked by you, by men. No, by a spaceship thing. And she said, look, come in, there are no such things as spaceship. Come on, you must have fell and hit your head. And then she went, wait a minute.
00:48:18
Speaker
I know my husband. I've been married to him for over 35 years. He would never, never make up a story like this. So she phoned a local doctor and the local doctor attended the family dwelling and he found that Bob's heartbeat was elevated. He saw the bruises and marks under the chin and the head and he says, look,
00:48:41
Speaker
We better get you to the hospital. You need to be properly checked over, Bob. I suggest you go to the local Bangover hospital. Which you did. Bob went to the hospital.
00:48:52
Speaker
He waited. He waited. He waited. He waited two hours. Nobody came near him. So he got fed up and he discharged himself without being seen. And by this time, Bob's boss Malcolm Drummond came to the house and they both went up to Decknut Woods. And Bob says there, look, there's the marks on the grass.
00:49:16
Speaker
Now this is where the police became involved, Sebastian, because it was claimed as an assault by person or persons unknown.
00:49:29
Speaker
and when the police became involved they fenced off the area by a chicken wire fence to stop any members of the public coming in and destroying the evidence of which there were plenty and a full blown police investigation was undertaken not just on the marks on the grass but also on the ripped trousers these were sent to a forensic laboratory in Edinburgh where a gentleman by the name of Lester Nibb examined the trousers
00:49:59
Speaker
and he's been doing this for years you know and he said that in his opinion these trousers were ripped in an upwards manner they were not ripped by any forest debris like sharp twigs or stones or barbed wire fencing these were ripped in a mechanical manner
00:50:20
Speaker
and this I've interviewed a number of the police officers involved with that case and one of the police officers in work said to me Malcolm I actually know the man I've had a drink with him down the pub down the local bowling club and he's seen as a day is long he would never make up a story like this and a few years ago I decided to compile a book about this
00:50:48
Speaker
fantastic case which in contain within the book is a living alternative theories by others to perhaps explain this wonderful case.
Commemorating UFO Sites
00:50:59
Speaker
We also with the help of the West Lothian Council erected a stone cairn with a brass plaque to commemorate this site and this event and a couple of years ago
00:51:11
Speaker
I got, with the help of the West Lothian Council, we managed to get signage placed in the woods directing people to the site. There's a big plaque there next to the stone cairn as well. And the reason we did this Sebastian, because we felt
00:51:30
Speaker
that people needed to know where this location was. They were coming from all over the world trying to find this spot. They couldn't find it prior to the signage. Rendlesham Forest is a big case, a UFO case in England, and that got signage as well. So we felt, well, if England can do it, Scotland can do it as well, which we did. Yeah, that's fair enough.
00:51:55
Speaker
But yeah, it's just one of the biggest cases in Scotland and I could say so much more than that. But that's the basic what happened. Thanks a lot for this synopsis. I think it gives us a really good idea of all the really hard data involved in this fascinating case. Were any soil samples taken from those 40 holes that were found?
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah, also attending the scene that day along with myself was famed researcher Andy Collins, Andrew Collins, who's written extensively about the mysteries of Egypt. He was a young man, I was only 21, 22, he was the same.
00:52:40
Speaker
And he took soil samples for Bufora, the British UFO Research Association, and those were sent off to London to be analysed. And I'm sure you're waiting on me telling you the results of that analysis.
00:52:58
Speaker
he said to me and i met him on the ancient aliens show a few months ago when we were recording the show i says whatever happened to those soil samples he says malcolm they were lost what do you mean they were lost nobody knows where they went to so they haven't been analyzed he says no we don't know and it's a shame because as i say i was only a young researcher i was starting my career 21 year old
00:53:22
Speaker
I wish I had have taken soil samples. This is in the days before the internet and iPhones and I took some cine footage, I took some photographs of the marks and the grass which thankfully we still have. But yeah, I mean I remember we took a psychic, one of SBI's psychic when we commemorated the case back in 1993 I think with the stone
00:53:47
Speaker
with members of the press there. And Helen Walters, lovely lady, great psychic, she sadly passed away last year. She was staring into the trees. And I went up and I tapped her on the shoulder and I said, Helen, what are you looking at? Oh, don't you see them, Malcolm? Don't you see them? I said, sorry, they say what? And what she said, Sebastian, was she could see, believe it or not, she could see,
00:54:16
Speaker
A grey alien's face appeared within the trees and also a red ball that was dancing and weaving in it of the trees. Now I couldn't see a thing but I'll tell you what
00:54:29
Speaker
I believe wholeheartedly in what she said she saw. She was a very, very gifted psychic. She helped on the A70 case. She was also a hypnotherapist, a qualified hypnotherapist.
Use of Psychics in Investigations
00:54:42
Speaker
We'll speak about the A70 later. But she said she saw that. That was absolutely incredible. Now, I've been offered thousands and thousands of pounds
00:54:52
Speaker
to part with these trousers by an American businessman and they refuse to do it because these trousers which I still have I still have these ripped trousers here in my home in Scotland I take them on my lecture tours I take them on TV shows
00:55:09
Speaker
and I will not part with them. And people have asked, well what happens when you pass away Malcolm? Where does the trousers go to? And I've often said I would like them to go to the Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. There are many artefacts of Scottish history in there and people may say well you don't want that silly, that's stupid. What do you want that in there for?
00:55:33
Speaker
it's still a piece of Scottish history and I've often said Sebastian of a column like the Turing threads of mythology you know
00:55:44
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, it's also not only a piece of cultural history, it's also a piece of evidence. So I think it's really, really good that you're protecting those and trying to preserve them for eternity. Very, very good. Sorry, Sebastian. One thing I should interject, my apologies, is that you've obviously, you know about psychometry. And for any listeners that's not aware of what psychometry is, it's like holding up
00:56:11
Speaker
a coin or a medal or something in your hands and if we have a psychic doing that they can tell you all about that person. So I decided to do a control test with the trousers, psychometry test with the trousers and then one polythene bag
00:56:28
Speaker
was just a normal pair of trousers and then the other quality bag was Bob Taylor's trousers and we switched them about and even I didn't know what was in them and we gave the trousers to a psychic and when she
00:56:45
Speaker
was holding the Bob Taylor trouser she didn't she obviously squished it she knew it was a piece of clothing or something or a cover or something a blank or whatever because she could squash it in her hands as soon as she did that she went oh my god and I went what
00:57:02
Speaker
What is this Malcolm? You tell me, you're the psychic. She says I'm getting a man in some woods and he's been thrust up against a tree and I'm getting pinpricks of electricity in my fingers and I don't know what that is. And I'm going off tangent here, I'll tell you another very very quick story, my apologies. Talking about psychometry, I gave a lecture at a big convention down in England a few years ago
00:57:30
Speaker
and her psychic was doing psychometry tests and she asked people in the room to pre-worn people in the room a few days ago to bring something along from their family members and she would tell them who they were etc. Anyway, I brought a stone along with me that day and my stone was the last to be held by this psychometrist.
00:57:53
Speaker
and as soon as she picked up that small stone that I put in this tray she screamed out and she went my god what is this and again I said oh you're a psychic tell me what are you getting I said what are you getting I get despair I get anguish I get horror oh this is horrible horrible horrible what is it where did you get that stone Malcolm
00:58:18
Speaker
I said, I got that stone from Auschwitz-Birkenau, from the demolished, you know, where the gas ovens were. That's where I got that stone. And she picked it up. She did, didn't know where that stone came from. And the psychic emanations on the stone was still very much there. My apologies for going off tangent. I just felt I had to get that story in.
00:58:42
Speaker
No, no, I think it's very worthwhile relaying that in this context because it is a piece of evidence, you know, and so it's very, very important. So was Robert Taylor submitted to any form of hypnotic regression or was that not the case?
00:59:00
Speaker
Well he was, unbeknown to me, and I've mentioned it in my book, there was a stage hypnotherapist by the name of Robert Halperin, and I think it was either Glasgow or Edinburgh, probably Glasgow,
Hypnotic Regression in UFO Cases
00:59:15
Speaker
and he was well known for getting people on stage and making a fool of them, and that did not have anything to do with this scenario. I was a wee bit annoyed when I found out about this.
00:59:26
Speaker
Apparently the story goes that Bob either went to see him or Robert Halpern came to see Bob and he took Bob back to November the 9th, 1972. Bob related walking along the woods, he related seeing this strange object, he related the two spherical spheres that descended from the object attacking him and in vain.
00:59:50
Speaker
blackness. There was an impenetrable blackness that the hypnotherapist couldn't penetrate. He couldn't lift this veil of blackness up
01:00:00
Speaker
Is that because there were nothing after that veil of blackness? Or is it because there was something set in Bob's mind that he couldn't relay any further recall? Now hypnosis, you have to be very, very careful. I'm sure you'll agree with hypnotic regression on any given UFO case. People can lie, people can drag up through kryptonesia, something that they read as a small child in a book.
01:00:29
Speaker
For instance, they may remember it being a seafaring captain in the 17th or 18th century. It wasn't them at all. It was something they read. Maybe even cellular memory. You know, cellular memory is something people get the heart transplant or a lung transplant and suddenly they get the memories or they want to climb trees or ride a motorbike that they didn't want to do before. How is it possible that cellular structure
01:00:57
Speaker
Once you transplant a heart or a lung can give those people memories So with hypnosis and we have to be very careful that it's not false memory or something I've read in a book now that said people
01:01:13
Speaker
researchers should still use it and leave it as a side issue. Here's something we got out of hypnosis, you take it or leave it. And the reason I say that Sebastianism, as we know the police have used hypnosis in murder cases with people who have just got a block and they try to bring that out. For instance, there was a case in the United Kingdom
01:01:34
Speaker
It was a big bank robbery and a lady saw the car driving off from the scene of the robbery and the police asked her, what was the number plate? What was the license plate on that? Oh, I don't remember it. Honestly, I don't remember. Under hypnosis, though, she clearly recalled that in the license plate and they managed to track down the culprit. So hypnosis has its uses, but in the
01:02:02
Speaker
in the Robert Taylor case it was only ever, excuse me, a stage hypnotherapist who did that and I remember Robert Taylor used to communicate me again pre-internet by letter and he says Malcolm oh how I wish how I wish you were there that day to see what I saw and how I wish my dog could talk yes if only if only
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah that's understandable and I mean in terms of hypnotherapy, I think it is a valid approach if you are transparent with the data which you are. I mean you've
A70 Abduction Case Overview
01:02:39
Speaker
published the transcripts which brings us to the A70 abduction case and I think that's very important because then you can see which questions were asked, how were they answered because I think one of the
01:02:52
Speaker
Big arguments always against hypnotherapy is that there might be leading questions. But obviously, if you're transparent with the transcripts and the data, then that can't be falsified. So, yep, that's definitely a good thing to have this data available.
01:03:08
Speaker
But speaking of the A70 case, it did remind me when I was reading your book on this a bit of Incident at Devil's Den by Terry Loveless in that you also have two rather youngish chaps who are traveling solo in the middle of nowhere, basically, and then have this dramatic
01:03:32
Speaker
And it also seems that afterwards, which is quite dramatic, they basically had to endure various psychological traumas and also basically their friendship basically fell apart. So it's quite a traumatic experience they had there. But that's just, you know, as a brief introduction, but I'd be happy for you to give us a basic overview of what happened.
01:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, again, it's one of the biggest cases in the annals of Scottish mythology. It's known as the A70 incident or UFO incident. Now, as a researcher, I was aware
01:04:17
Speaker
of many UFO abductions, the world over America, Canada, Venezuela, Spain, et cetera. But I had never dealt with those cases like many others. I only had read about them. So I couldn't really say with any sincerity what I really felt about these cases. You know, it would be remiss of me not to. I just couldn't do it. So all that changed when two men made themselves known to me.
01:04:42
Speaker
back in the early 1990s. And I got a phone call from Gary Wood, who was one of the two witnesses in this case. He said he proceeded to tell me about a strange incident that himself and his friend Colin Wright had had on an August evening back in 1992. So here is what transpired. It's a massively long story. I'll do my very, very best to cram it down into a few moments.
01:05:10
Speaker
On this August evening they had jumped into their car and they left the built-up city of Edinburgh with its long tenement buildings etc, grey granite buildings, and they drove down a road called the A70. Now when you leave the built-up city of Edinburgh then you're left with fields on either side, fields to your left, fields to your right, farmland, moorland,
01:05:39
Speaker
very very quiet and desolate and they were driving down this road it's a road to have driven down a number of times before without any incident
01:05:48
Speaker
Again, like most people, I keep saying it, they were aware of UFOs, newspaper reports, television, but they were not interested in it. You know, just like most people, they were not interested in it. So they're driving down this East 17, it was late at night, about half past 10 or so at night, and half 11 I can't quite recall now.
01:06:10
Speaker
and they were driving down this road and as they approached a blind bend Colin who was in the passenger seat said to Gary, what on earth is that? For there about 20 feet above the surface of this road and again this is not a big busy road it's a small road
01:06:31
Speaker
above the surface of this road was a two-tiered black shiny object which was sitting over the whole of the road and again they knew it's not an aircraft it's not a helicopter what is this what shall we do shall we stop and go back they decided not to stop they decided to continue on their journey
01:06:54
Speaker
And as they went beneath this hovering object, this object emitted like a silver shimmering curtain of electrostatic light particles, descended from beneath the object, the surface of this craft, whatever it may be, and hit the car.
01:07:15
Speaker
And as soon as this sparkling effect hit the car, both men were enveloped in total and inky blackness. They couldn't see their hands in front of their face. They couldn't see the dashboard of the car. They couldn't see each other. Are we dead? That's what they thought. Are we dead? Is this what death feels like?
01:07:37
Speaker
Then, thankfully, their sight was regained. The car was on the other side of the road. Here in the UK, we driving the left, you guys driving the right. So the cars on the right-hand side of the road, you have to pull the steering wheel and pull it.
01:07:49
Speaker
back to the left hand side without crashing into the grass verge and they drove to their destination, which was a small village called Terbrachs and they hammered on the door, no answer, hammered on the door, no answer. Eventually a window opened and Katrina, who was one of the ladies of the house, they were going to see two people in this house to deliver a satellite system.
01:08:14
Speaker
So you opened up the window and screamed out of them. What time? What time do you call this? You're an hour and a half late.
01:08:22
Speaker
Now the journey, Sebastian, should only have taken them about 30, 35 minutes and they were an hour and a half later. So they proceeded to enter the house, they told the occupants of the house about this strange craft, this shiny metallic, strange looking wingless craft sitting above this road. And that night and subsequent nights thereafter, they had strange dreams of these small grey creatures.
01:08:52
Speaker
three and a half to four feet tall large pear shaped heads black inky almond shaped eyes greyy bluey translucent skin coming into their dream world and then they found scars scars on their body that previously were not there we all know our bodies we go into the shower we go into the bath we know our bodies off behalf these were fresh scoop like marked scars etc how the earth did they get there?
01:09:21
Speaker
So Gary says to himself, What do you do?
01:09:25
Speaker
Who do you tell about these things? Do you go to the doctor? Do you go to the police officers? Do you go to the fire brigade? Who do you go to? So what he did decide to do, he went into his local library in Edinburgh and he went to the kind of UFO and paranormal section and he picked out a book by famed British authoress Jenny Randall. So he was a big, big hero of mine. And my address was at the back page of the book.
01:09:54
Speaker
and he telephoned me and I invited him and his colleague Colin to my home. And I sat them down, interviewed them on video. I've still got the videotapes of that interview. And at that time, and we spoke about hypnosis a moment ago, I truly did advocate the use of hypnotic regression as a tool to perhaps find out some more hidden subconscious memory. I says, guys,
01:10:21
Speaker
Would you be happy to go under hypnosis? Purely just to see if perhaps, and it's a big perhaps, something may have happened that night. Oh Malcolm, yes, yes, yes, please, please, can we do it, can we do it? Because even our wives don't believe us, Malcolm. Our friends at work don't believe us. We're having a very, very hard time. We'll try anything. We need to know what happened that night.
01:10:44
Speaker
And I says, OK, so we used the services of Helen Walters, who I mentioned a moment ago, saw this alien face at Digmond Woods. She is a qualified hypnotherapist. She's not a fly-by-night hypnotherapist. She's qualified. And long story short, they took the men back to that August evening independently.
01:11:06
Speaker
And the following of which I'm about to relay is what came out under hypnosis. The conscious recall was only ever seeing this craft. The hypnosis recall is as follows. Colin found his seatbelt unbuckled, isn't that strange?
01:11:27
Speaker
I always buckle my seatbelt. Then they saw three or four smaller creatures, these great creatures coming towards the car. Gary found himself placed on a floating stretcher.
01:11:44
Speaker
Now, there are a lot of similarities and there are a lot of differences with this case, as opposed to worldwide UFO abductions, which we'll come to. And nobody was holding this stretcher. And they were taking on board, presumably, on board this object, whatever it may be, and independently taking to different areas of this craft. Gary found himself on this flat raised table. He was completely naked. He says, Malcolm,
01:12:14
Speaker
I couldn't move a muscle. I could only move my eyes. I desperately wanted to punch one of these small greys. I couldn't move. I couldn't move a muscle. And at the foot of this bed with these small grey beings,
01:12:30
Speaker
one of whom was holding like a pendulum with orange pulsating light moving around his leg and his stomach and he says as they did that it was like a hand was inside my stomach pulling and pushing all my intervals around he says I was in extreme discomfort
01:12:51
Speaker
And Colin on the other hand found himself on a kind of curved chair on one occasion and he had a needle going into his side of his eye. He also found himself in case later on when we did a different hypnotic regression, he found himself in case in a long glass or Perspex tube. He was attached.
01:13:12
Speaker
to a chair, he was unclothed, he had no clothes on, again he could move other than his eyes to the left and to the right he could see other males and females encased in a similar glass or perspex tube and getting back to Gary
01:13:31
Speaker
Gary on one occasion looked down on the floor of this room. He says the room was devoid, it was a silver shimmering silvery room, devoid of any instrumentation, a curved ceiling, a convex ceiling. And he saw on the floor a naked female, a teenager, maybe 17, 18 years of age, and she had her sitting on the floor with her knees up under her chin.
01:14:01
Speaker
with her arms folded around her knees and she gently turned her head and looked in Gary's direction she had tears running down her face and Gary says Malcolm she looked so sad I'll never ever forget her face
01:14:17
Speaker
and it was again one of these things he also claimed he saw some circular device free floating in the air above his table tumbling and tumbling and tumbling and also coming up from the floor was a can shaped device if you can imagine an ordinary can of beans in your cupboard in your kitchen only it would be about three or four feet tall
01:14:45
Speaker
Same kind of shape, that's what I'm getting at, same shape. Something similar to that rose up from the floor when Gary was on this flat table. Then a part of it elevated, it was like a piece of it elevated out. It looked like two red LED dots on the end of it and it started spinning and spinning.
01:15:04
Speaker
What purpose was that? What was that for? Was it some form of medical device, something to try and elicit some information from the person? You know, we don't know. It's something we don't know what that was. And it was just one of these bizarre cases, you know, that another part of it was
01:15:27
Speaker
When he looked down on the floor he saw what appeared to be, similar, a pool of liquid gel, a shaving gel that a man would put on his chin to have a shave bubbling up from the floor. And then coming out of this was this creature. Now in the drawings that the witnesses did for SBI, some of these graves had what appeared to be ribs. I says, is that ribs you've drawn on these creatures Gary? He went, no.
01:15:57
Speaker
I think it's heavy folds of skin which was a strange thing to say, very strange.
Impact on A70 Witnesses
01:16:04
Speaker
Now some of the differences between worldwide abductions were red, green and blue perforations of colored lines under these black inky almond shaped eyes. I am not aware of that anywhere else in the literature of ufology and yet this is what these guys said they saw. Red, yellow or blue lines under their eyes which was
01:16:27
Speaker
which was quite strange as well. Yeah, well, thanks a lot for condensing, I think, 400 page book on this case into about 10 minutes. That is really a challenge, so cheers for that. What was the aftermath of that case for both witnesses on a personal level? Because as I already said, often in these abduction cases, which I find quite interesting, I mean, these traumatic events, you would suppose,
01:16:55
Speaker
create a bond between those who experienced them. But here I think, well, but perhaps I'll hand it back over to you, something rather different happened, right? They became estranged and basically suffered a lot from their experiences. Yeah, that's very true, Sebastian. Normally you would think in any traumatic event, it would bring those people together as a bond.
01:17:23
Speaker
It did for a while. I think possibly what changed now was maybe it was my fault because I said to both gentlemen
01:17:31
Speaker
We really need to get your testimony out in the newspapers, out into the media because I need to get and attract more people from Scotland who's had similar experiences. Would you guys be happy to help me on this? Yes Malcolm, we'll do that. So initially we worked with one of the biggest newspapers in Great Britain. Thankfully it's no longer with us, it was called the News of the World.
01:17:57
Speaker
and they totally destroyed the credibility of both witnesses and they really, really suffered and I felt it as well because I asked the guys to come forward and they got lambasted, they got destroyed.
01:18:12
Speaker
and it was really quite upsetting and since then they kind of stayed away they didn't want to help in any way shape or form with any media things that I wanted to do because you and I know Sebastian it's always great rather than me speaking on a stage it'd be great to get the people who witnessed these things the abductees on the stage as opposed to myself and that because people want to hear from the horses now so to speak
01:18:39
Speaker
So they distanced themselves initially from assisting me and they went their own separate ways, which was a great shame. But as far as your question in the aftermath as well, there was a strange peculiar story as well. Ask Gary.
01:18:57
Speaker
Has anything else happened to you? You know, since then, since that event, he went, yeah. He says, some years ago, after the event, I was driving with my two young sons in the car. I was going to see a relation way outside Edinburgh, not the A70, totally different road. And it was during the daytime. And then suddenly this tremendous white light came across a bonnet of the car, came through the glass of the windscreen and enveloped
01:19:27
Speaker
the whole car inside, enveloped Gary, enveloped his two young sons, and his young son screamed out, Dad, Dad, what's going on here? What's going on? And thankfully that stopped. Now, would that have been another abduction? I didn't pursue it. Another thing Gary said in the aftermath of the A70 abduction, I said, you know, I'm asking questions all the time. I said, years don't buy anything else in it. Yes.
01:19:54
Speaker
Well, tell me. No, it doesn't matter, Malcolm. No, no, please tell me. It may not matter to you, but it matters to me. Tell me. But you won't believe me, Malcolm. I says, look, tell me.
Speculation on Non-Human Intelligence
01:20:07
Speaker
So what he said, Sebastian, was that he woke up and he said, Malcolm, I wasn't dreaming. I woke up and I saw a small, gray being in my bedroom. And I realized I could control my arms and legs.
01:20:24
Speaker
and I jumped out of bed and I rushed at the small grey beam and I gave him a big right hook right on his triangular face and it knocked him backwards it was like a circus acrobat a tumbler went head over heels and then suddenly this small grey beam stood up erect and rushed towards him and an explosion of light
01:20:48
Speaker
happened and then Gary found himself waking up a few hours later uncomfortable in his bed I said well you woke up is it not a dream he says no Malcolm I can't stress enough I was wide awake this happened and then it's just again it's just so bizarre Sebastian so bizarre
01:21:08
Speaker
And I'm glad you report on these things, you know, because I think it's really important to de-stigmatize these accounts and to give those individuals a voice who went through these traumatic experiences. Now, Malcolm, you've been very generous with your time and I'm just looking out at the clock.
01:21:24
Speaker
kind of running out of time, I could talk to you for hours. But just to wrap this up, I mean, you have more than 40 years of experience under your belt researching these things. What do you think the UFO phenomenon is all about? What in your opinion is behind it? Well, I can only offer speculations because anybody who says they know what's behind it is lying. Nobody truly, truly knows. They may think they know.
01:21:52
Speaker
I can only offer speculations and all I can say is we're dealing here with some form of non-human intelligence. As I said earlier, it's always been with us. They have an agenda, by God they do. They don't necessarily need to come through from outer space. They may have bases on planet Earth. The more UFOs have been sighted coming into and exiting out of the oceans of this planet, more so around the island of Puerto Rico. So they may have already bases here.
01:22:21
Speaker
they may be so superior and advanced it's like you know you're trying to show Admiral Nelson into a nuclear submarine it's trying to show a caveman showing them putting them in New York Square times Times Square looking about you look at this we can't comprehend the technology and the advancement of this race and I do believe
01:22:43
Speaker
They are there. We're dealing with some form of race. But we must be so insignificant to them that they're truly not bothered that much about us. As for the abductions, they're taking people out of their family homes, traumatising them, giving them these experiences. Why?
01:23:01
Speaker
It can't be to collect sperm and over from males and females because some people say it's to repopulate a dying planet. It sounds like a script from the X-Files. I don't believe that because if they're taking sperm and over from these abductees then surely, surely.
01:23:19
Speaker
They've got enough genetic material that they don't need to do that. Are they injecting things into us? Are they trying to change us? Are we them in the sense that planet Earth has bought a zoo? They created the conditions.
01:23:35
Speaker
for us to thrive here. People may say, no, it's Darwin. Darwin, the evolution of the species we crawl from. I don't believe that. I think we were genetically put here and maybe that's what's going on.
Malcolm's Work and Contact Information
01:23:51
Speaker
Pure speculation on the part of myself.
01:23:55
Speaker
No thanks thanks for sharing I mean you know as he rightly said you know anyone who claims to know everything in this field is wrong by default I do appreciate that so Malcolm where can people find your extensive work and what you currently working on and I will put all the links in the description of this episode.
01:24:17
Speaker
Yeah, I've written 12 books on a combination of UFOs, ghosts, I've even written about Nessie, I've been down in the Loch Ness submarine. These books can be found on Amazon. I'm currently writing a book on Bonny Bridge with Ron Halliday, another Scottish researcher, but in the midst of getting that ready, fingers crossed, that should be out later this year. So I'm also available to chat with anybody on Facebook and I'd love to
01:24:46
Speaker
hear from any of your listeners. I'll answer any emails. It'd be just nice to hear from people. I'm not an expert. I may have 45 years in the field. I don't have all the answers, but I can certainly give you my opinions as to what's been going on.
01:25:03
Speaker
Thank you Malcolm. It's been such a pleasure having you on today and yeah we should definitely repeat this at some point. You are a very busy man and researching lots of things so it would be interesting to get more insights into what you're doing. So thanks Malcolm. It's been a pleasure and good luck to you so much.