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20: Italy’s most bizarre UFO abduction case
150 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, I speak with journalist Rino Di Stefano, who originally covered and later wrote a book about the Zanfretta case, one of Europe’s most astonishing and well-documented UFO abduction cases. Between 1978 and 1980, Pier Fortunato Zanfretta, a security guard in the Genoa region of northern Italy, reported multiple abductions by towering reptilian beings. His terrifying encounters sparked official investigations, drew the attention of the Italian Carabinieri, and left behind physical traces that continue to puzzle researchers to this day.
We explore the key events of the case, from Zanfretta’s first abduction in 1978 to his final (official) disappearance in 1980, analyzing eyewitness accounts, forensic evidence, and hypnosis sessions conducted by leading medical professionals. Di Stefano shares his first-hand experiences investigating the case, including his participation in a rescue operation after one of Zanfretta’s vanishings.
Was this a genuine case of extraterrestrial contact, a psychological phenomenon, or something else entirely? Join us as we dive deep into the mystery of the Zanfretta abductions and the lasting impact they had on those involved.
More on Rino di Stefano’s work
Website: https://www.rinodistefano.com/en/
Book on the Zanfretta case: https://www.amazon.com/Zanfretta-Case-Chronicle-Incredible-Story/dp/B0D47W45KG/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9RdBcCgf05Q9UsBjBH_JVQ.wVp5a0aij7OoQ4gJuWRdwBh8Ns7u-1K1XhAcY27_tsc&qid=1738511195&sr=8-1
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Want a free transcript of this episode? Email europeanufos@gmail.com, and I’ll be happy to send it over!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:14
Speaker
and welcome to European UFOs. My name is Sebastian and if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on your chosen platform. Any sharing and liking really help the algorithm and are very much appreciated. Also, if you'd like to support the show and keep it ad-free, you can do so at buymeacoffee.com. The link is in the description.
00:00:37
Speaker
If you'd like a free transcript of this episode or any previous ones, just send an email to europeanufos at gmail dot.com and I'll be happy to send it over.
Episode Focus: Sanfreda Abduction Case
00:00:49
Speaker
This is our first episode of 2025 and we have an exciting year ahead with many fascinating guests and deep dives into some of Europe's most mysterious UFO cases.
00:01:01
Speaker
If you're a long-time listener, welcome back. And if you're new to the show, you've picked a great time to join us. In today's episode, we explore one of the most astonishing UFO abduction cases ever recorded in Europe, the Sanfreda case. Between 1978 and 1980, Pierre Fortunato Sanfreda, a security guard in the Genoa region of northern Italy, reported being abducted multiple times by what he described as towering reptilian beings.
00:01:33
Speaker
His case remains one of the best documented UFO encounters in Italian history, drawing the attention of law enforcement, journalists, and even medical professionals.
Investigation Insights with Reno DiStefano
00:01:45
Speaker
To help us unravel this extraordinary series of events, I'm joined by journalist Reno DiStefano, who originally covered the case and later wrote a book about it. DiStefano was on the ground, speaking to eyewitnesses, investigating physical traces and even participating in a rescue mission during one of Sinfretta's disappearances.
00:02:06
Speaker
He will walk us through the chilling details of these encounters, the official response from the Italian Carabinieri, and the impact this case had on Sinfretta himself. Was this a genuine case of extraterrestrial contact, a psychological phenomenon, or something else entirely? Stay tuned as we dive deep into the mystery of the Sinfretta abductions.
00:02:32
Speaker
Hello, Mr. D. Stefano. Great to have you on the show today. How are you doing? I'm fine. Thank you. Well, we're here to talk about one of the most intriguing abduction cases um in Europe. ah Before we um unravel this case, could you tell us a bit about your background and how you got involved with the so-called Sanfredo case?
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, I am a professional journalist. ah I studied political science ah in Genoa, Italy, and then journalism in the U.S. where I earn a degree, okay a college degree. ah Well, at that time, ah we are speaking about the Zamfreta case. ah I was in my second year as a journalist in the Genoese daily newspaper, Il Corriere, Mercantile.
00:03:23
Speaker
In 1978, we are speaking about that year, Il Correia Mercantile was the oldest newspaper in Italy. As a matter of fact, I didn't have any interest in ah UFO ah prior to the Zamfreta case.
00:03:40
Speaker
My interest ah was ah only the news what happened in that day. A private guard was abducted by a UFO. This was ah exactly what I was thinking that day. Nothing more.
00:03:58
Speaker
And how did you find out initially about Zenfreta and his abduction in 78? Was this through the press, through your colleagues? How did you find out?
00:04:11
Speaker
No, only only that day you see a journalist wrote an article on Il Seco de Chimonono, which was ah and the most popular ah a newspaper in Liguria, the region where we live. okay It was about ah the Zamfreta Abduction.
00:04:41
Speaker
So I read that that the article and I understood the that it was something interesting and ah I went there just to see with my eyes you know what was really happening. So this was 1978, right?
Sanfreda's Encounters and Evidence
00:05:05
Speaker
We are speaking about December 1978.
00:05:09
Speaker
And it's the region around Genoa in northern Italy. In the northern part of Italy, yes. Could you take us to that day when you went there and could you tell us what you discovered through your interviews and through being there? If you don't mind, I can explain all the Jamfret encounters. okay That would be very helpful. Yeah, just take us through the chronology. That would be lovely.
00:05:38
Speaker
Well, the first encounter with the presumed aliens was a shortly after midnight on December 6, 1978. Zamfreta was on duty in Torilia, a village near Genoa. In that occasion Zamfreta saw a large and very bright light behind him a huge flat triangular form, which was ah blending in its brilliance, okay? Very, very very bright. The Carabinieri de Italia military police ah found 52 testimonies ah of that event, okay? That was the first one. The second was ah on December 26, 1978,
00:06:30
Speaker
about midnight, 20 days after the first one. It was near the village of Rossi, a place ah well known ah in in in our region because Natalia Garaventa, Frank Sinatra mother, was born there, okay? Just up in the hills. Again, the carabiners were cold and ah It was a very ugly night. It was raining and very cold. But the the roof of the Fiat 127, the Karzamfreta was ah driving in that occasion, was as hot as if a a it had spent an entire day in the sun.
00:07:23
Speaker
You see, it was very cold, so it was strange this ah this ah situation. Even the interior of the car was also said to be as hot as an oven. All around the car, carabiners found very large footprints.
00:07:42
Speaker
that was a matter, you see, of discussion. These footprints were 20 inches long by 8 inches wide. So, you see, very, very large. With a distinct empty spot between Soul and Hill. Besides the Zamfretas Gan, a Smith & Wesson .38 Special,
00:08:12
Speaker
had been fired five times, and but the guard couldn't recall at whom he had fired the weapon. All this data has been enclosed, that's important, in the report of the sighting of an unidentified flying object by Pierre Fortunato Zamfreta sent by Antonio Nuki, the commandant of the Carabinier station in Torilia,
00:08:43
Speaker
ah On January 3, 1979 to the Magistrate's Court in Genoa, in an inquiry for what action should be taken, the report um ended up in on the table of Luciano Di Notto, a substitute attorney of the Italian Republic who passed it onto investigative magistrate, John Rodolfo Shaka Luga. Finally, Nuki's report was delivered to a magistrate Russo, that's his name, ah who one year later, on January 11, 1980, he certified that he could be filled away with this declaration, quote, no crime committed, quote,
00:09:39
Speaker
okay In addition, the carabiners command had informed also the Italian Department of Interior and the other military commands of the incident ah by two telexes sent respectively on December 8 and December 28, 1978.
Public Reaction and Psychological Impact
00:10:04
Speaker
The carabiners defined the degree of reliability that the event actually occurred as good. So they believe ah in this. ah So the military police took this quite seriously, this entire matter. Right. The third encounter was on the night of July 30, 1979.
00:10:32
Speaker
Zanfreta was on duty again and this time on a motorcycle in the residential area of Cuarto in Genoa and not in the hills like before. Two hours later it was found on the top of Mount Fasche also near Genoa and nobody knows how it get up there. This time Zanfreta were taken to Milan the most important Italian city to the International Center of Medical and Psychological Hypnosis. On his own request, ah he was injected the with a truth serum by Professor Marco Marchezan, the center's director.
00:11:23
Speaker
Zamfreta confirmed everything he has said before and he explained that the last time he was lifted from the ground into the alien spaceship by a mysterious green light. That's what he said in that occasion.
00:11:42
Speaker
Professor Marcia Zahn declared, quote, no human being care, knowing lie, while is it under pentatal treatment? So I think it's very probable Zahn Freda had these encounters, quote. So he was ah he believed in in this ah in this event. Few months later,
00:12:12
Speaker
10.30 pm on Sunday, December 2, 1979, Zamfreta disappeared for the fourth time while driving an Austin Mini in the suburbs of the city of Genoa. While looking for him, four patrol guards clearly saw a very large UFO in the sky.
00:12:41
Speaker
We were again near Torilia up in the hills above Genoa. The night was very dark and from ah out of a large cloud above the guards, two lights came on and shone down directly on the four men. The engines of their cars stopped down and they got out
Hypnosis and Credibility of Testimony
00:13:06
Speaker
of their vehicles terrified. They were very terrified. Only one of them, the Chief Cassiba, that's his name, reacted and fired his gun at the UFO. The light turned off and the crowd moved away. It's ah important to say that one of these guards was ah sure so shocked
00:13:33
Speaker
that he never completely recovered his mental stability. A few months later he killed himself with a bullet in the head. Zamfretta disappeared again for the fifth time on February 14, 1980. That silly night I participated in the rescue operation again near the village of Rossi.
00:14:03
Speaker
When it was found by its colleagues, the guard was freezing and in a state of shock. A villager living near me said that a few minutes before the rescuers arrived he saw a huge brilliant mass in the sky shaped like a football balloon.
00:14:26
Speaker
During the nasty hypnotic session, Dr. Moretti faced a new problem. Gianfretta suddenly started to speak a strange and unknown language. He was uttering words like this.
00:14:44
Speaker
ikis nawa c nila is and again i se i go gay she ni k ey ka no kiss nawa the i p now keep not they stay absolutely not comp comprehensible I took the registration to the Department of Grotology of the University of general.
00:15:11
Speaker
but nobody understood what kind of language it could be. You see, I would like to apologize for my English because i i many years ago, you you see, I was used to speak English every day, but now just ah once in a while, in few occasions. Don't you worry. your Your English is perfect. Don't you worry about that. Okay, thank you. Well, Zenfret, the last disappearance was on August 13, 1980.
00:15:46
Speaker
but it was Richard before he made a contact with the presumed aliens. The last hypnotic regression was illuminating. The guard was absolutely out of control and didn't answer any question at all. Quote, what is happening here is scientifically inexplicable to me, say, Dr. Moretti, the hypnotherape,
00:16:15
Speaker
Under interrogation, Zamfreta kept saying, during hypnosis, question with negative answer, Dixon. So it was not, the he didn't give any explanation anymore. Okay, this is, you see, is the whole encounter, the six times he he had the encounters.
00:16:43
Speaker
Thanks a lot for this tour de force through these rather shocking episodes and in Senn Fredder's life. So this is quite a complex case, not only because um there were multiple abductions in a relatively short period of time, but also because there were different parties involved and it was quite a high visibility case in Italy and beyond.
00:17:08
Speaker
Perhaps we could unpack this a bit. um I think we now have a good idea of what happened, but um let's let's focus on different aspects of the case. So could you tell us a bit about Sanfreda himself? um What kind of background does he have? Who who was this person who got abducted? At that time, Sanfreda was 26 years old, married and father of two children.
00:17:35
Speaker
He was known as a brave, honest and reliable man. For example, Antonio Nuki, the commandant of the Carabinier Storida station, has stated that he was a very confident in the testimony given by Zanfreta. He has known the security guard for many years and when I asked him what ah he thought about him he answered, quote I can't state with certainty that he is a clear thinking man with no strange fantasies in his head. When we went to investigate the scene the next day he almost didn't want to come, he was so scared only something exceptional could have frightened him so.
00:18:27
Speaker
you see If you know a person for many years and then you you see this kind of reaction, hey you ask yours yourself some question. Well, after the first encounter, Zamfreta was confused and bewildered.
00:18:46
Speaker
Then, in an attempt to end any further disturbing discussion of the incident, the Institute of Albezano asked Dr. Giorgio Gagnotti, a prominent neurologist at San Martino Hospital in Genoa, to examine Zamfreta.
00:19:06
Speaker
and He said, the man in a state of shock, dr gengenioti diasis but is perfectly sane.
00:19:19
Speaker
so He was ah not the only doctor to have that opinion. Zamfreta was also examined while on camera ah by Dr. Cesare Musati, a famous psychoanalyst called ah the father of the Italian Psychanalysis.
00:19:39
Speaker
On that occasion, Zamfreta said that Emusati said that Zamfreta spoke in good faith even if it was a hard to differentiate objective facts from subjective experiences.
00:19:56
Speaker
so So by all accounts, and so he went through medical assessment and there is no psychological pathology pathology or anything. He seems to be sane. yeah yeah Yeah. So he was working for a security firm. mea Yeah. Could you explain this a bit? So is it kind of like a sort of, is it is ah is it affiliated with the police somehow because they were armed, they had guns? So how did this work in Italy?
00:20:28
Speaker
They were guns and they were just private guards, you see, security guards, but private, not then they didn't have anything to do with police or carabiners, you know.
00:20:43
Speaker
And the area there is quite rural, right? So there's it's very sparsely populated, not many people live there. yes And so I suppose the security firm has the role of protecting the villas that are standing in that area. Yes.
00:21:02
Speaker
Great. Okay, so we've established, based on medical records, Sunfreta seems to be in good shape, good health. His colleagues also have nothing bad to say about him. On the contrary, they characterize him as someone who's brave and you know willing to take risk.
00:21:21
Speaker
In all of these cases, what did um hypnotherapy reveal? So on the one hand, we have the objective things that happened, like he disappeared for certain amounts of time and then his colleagues found him. What did Sunfreta have to say about his experiences during hypnosis? As you know, the hypnosis regression could be much more subjective than objective.
00:21:47
Speaker
So we can be sure about what the patient says during the session, but in some occasions, and if we we can but verify the information and come up from the epidemiology regression, we have a much more ah credibility to count on. I give you an example. On December 3, 1979, in the evening, Dr. Moretti made his noting regression on Zamfreta.
00:22:18
Speaker
What occurred was quite astonishing. At certain points Amfreta uttered this word. Where have you been? And what do you want to do in Spain? Why? But all together that will scare people. The next day On the morning of Tuesday, December 4, 1979, I was in my newsroom, you know, I was ah on on duty working.
Debates on Hypnosis Reliability
00:22:48
Speaker
And about 10 a.m., the international service, so the Italian press agency answer,
00:22:55
Speaker
carried a news item about a Spanish dentist Dr. Alfredo Sanchez Cuesta who on the Saturday night just past was driving Guadalajara about 9 miles from Madrid when he saw a very brilliant UFO u lfo which followed his car for about an hour.
00:23:20
Speaker
The UFO was at 50 feet above the car and Dr. Questa, terrified and blinded by the UFO, lost control of his car and went off the road. Was this a coincidence? And why, if the Amfreta story recounted under a pernosis is imaginary, did the guard mention Spain?
00:23:48
Speaker
And what about the coincidence in the dates? Zamfreta said he was abducted by aliens on Sunday night and gave his encounter under hypnosis on Monday evening. Dr. Quest's adventure occurred on Saturday night.
00:24:07
Speaker
Before Tuesday, no one in Italy knew about Doctor Quest Adventure and it was only on Wednesday that the Italian public was finally informed.
00:24:19
Speaker
so I let you make what you will of this fact. I i mean, it is just, ah you know, very as astonishing a question, this. Yeah. So he was able to predict this UFO encounter in Spain.
00:24:39
Speaker
out So the um hypnotherapy happened with two at least two doctors right so there was a doctor moretti and then there was a professor and moretti from what i understood was the main hypnotherapist right he did he did most of the sessions it was. What was the impression of Moretti doing these sessions? that he also what Was he also of the opinion that Sanfredo didn't fabricate this? Moretti was very professional. ah so e I say that he believes ah in in all this this news.
00:25:29
Speaker
But he was very surprised, he was very surprised. He didn't expect the reaction like ah dead zareta head in the in those occasions. He didn't he didn't know how to to explain the the fact that Zamfreta was out of control, for instance.
00:25:54
Speaker
So you never say what what you really was thinking in that case. I understand, yeah. I mean, it's also a difficult situation as i um as a medical doctor to to deal with something like that. And and Professor Markazan, he was the one who then, um on the request of Sunfreta himself, administered the so-called truth serum.
00:26:25
Speaker
ah which is a chemical um compound meant to elicit the truth from patients. So from what I gathered, ah Professor Markizan was a very ah well-established, very, very well-known physician. and So as a second opinion to Moretti, how did he see Sanfreda? Was he also um of the opinion? Professor Markizan believed in what Sanfreda said.
00:26:55
Speaker
Okay, to to him, it was so strange ah reaction like Jamfreta had. He really was thinking that Jamfreta was telling the truth.
00:27:14
Speaker
that's um yeah im i'm I'm just trying to imagine like as a medical professional, it must be very, very difficult to deal with these sorts of um things. Was there any recommended course of action then? um and so they Did ah Moretti advise Sunfreta to do something?
00:27:32
Speaker
Was it classified as a sort of pathology as a medical condition or what was the aim of the hypnosis? Was it just to retrieve information or was it actually meant to heal Sunfreta?
00:27:49
Speaker
It's not easy to give an answer to a question like this. But as I told you about footprints, testimonies and the Spanish adventure. So you have an idea about what happened in those days. But ah we didn't find so many evidences in all the Zamfreta case.
00:28:10
Speaker
Maybe a proof could be what happened to the security guard during the rescue operation up in the hills of general. But many of them, and many of the private guard, the security guard, saw something they will never forget. I mean, we have these eyewitnesses of this situation. A large, very bright ah UFO was seen by a lot of people in these days, in those days.
00:28:40
Speaker
Even Antonio Nook, you see, the the same commander of the Carabinier Storilla station, has been twice eyewitness of that strange event. Personally, he saw this figure. Nevertheless, we should not forget that people didn't like to talk about UFOs.
00:29:05
Speaker
Okay, so they don't want to talk, they they they prefer you know to to be silent and be because ah they they they were afraid to to to speak about that.
00:29:21
Speaker
ah So one thing that I found quite surprising is that over two years, um the employer of St. Freddy, that security firm, did not choose to lay him off or to or rather to fire him despite all of his um rather weird encounters. So it seems there was quite a high level of loyalty and um you know also trust in St. Freddy.
00:29:48
Speaker
Could you um shed some light on this so what was the role of the security firm and his colleagues and all of this. ah You mean ah the public reception. and No so it seems there was a rescue operation organized by by his boss and his colleagues and what was the general. Appreciation of the security firm of all the events that on for in these two years.
00:30:16
Speaker
In those days, many people spoke about the Zamfreta case, and but only few of them got more information about what really happened in the years in El Geno. You see, there was ah no clear explanation at all.
00:30:34
Speaker
And after a while, everybody wants just to forget that period.
Public Skepticism and Media Coverage
00:30:39
Speaker
you know the the day they like Only who read my book, who knew the fact and took interest in that two years event. For instance, ah the people who study ufology, you see that there are many people around general, but they did the this this kind of activity, didn't like the Zamfreta case. Since they had been turned away from the investigation, ah they never accepted what occurred from 1978 to 1980. For them,
00:31:20
Speaker
is just a journalistic report, something unrelated to their own culture, okay? But not only that, some years later, Zamfreta was a traumatic man, okay? Because he was shocked. Even now, he's a traumatic man, now, in this period, I mean.
00:31:45
Speaker
He didn't remember what happened, so he tells his story in a very fantastic way. It was not anymore the Zamfreta case, what he was telling about. It was something very very different, because ah e me you you see,
00:32:06
Speaker
He didn't remember, so he he just indented, he just make up some some new version of of the facts. So he is not ah anymore reliable about his own story.
00:32:24
Speaker
So it had quite a but shocking impact on him. He's not the same same person he used to be, this vibrant 26 year old security guard, I see. To come back to his colleagues, because I do find this point rather interesting. So they they took a serious interest in what was going on with Sunfreta and I suppose, but please correct me if I'm wrong, this was also To control the situation because as a security firm you don't want a big scandal right so that's what i think that i probably wanted to contain the situation and do their own investigation that they were frightened. I see it so.
00:33:06
Speaker
No one of them says, you you see, I believe ah in the UFO and things like that. But ah they they they were scared. and the They didn't feel ah comfortable comfortable about this story.
00:33:25
Speaker
Did you ever take part in one of these so-called rescue missions? or One, one, as I told you before, and just once I went up in the hills about 1am,
00:33:42
Speaker
1, 2am. what it was it was a i mean um I like this this kind of experience because I saw with my eyes that Zamfreta was completely you you see confused.
00:34:04
Speaker
He was confused, he didn't speak ah and normally, okay? He was mute, he was silent, and he didn't say a word. He was just a man, and you see, very confused. it didn't he He didn't explain what ah it was happening in that moment.
00:34:26
Speaker
And were you personally on site with all of these ah six encounters after they after they happened? Did you see, for instance, the footprints yourself? or no No, I didn't ah about the footprints because ah the carabiners found them. So I was not there when the carabiners found them. But there was a ah photo reporter of mine because ah I was working in general, and I sent my photo report, the photo report of of my newspaper, and it was with carabiners there, and it took some pictures of these footprints. And apart from the footprints, um i I think there were also landing traces, right? Or what you could call landing traces, but kind of a horseshoe-shaped indentation, right?
00:35:25
Speaker
to to do to sign and just in the mood, you see. and there There were these signs this sign yeah and um we we took pictures of them too also. But there was no sort of forensic analysis, I suppose, done like soil samples or or whatever. um So it was documented with photos, but that that was it, yeah.
00:35:52
Speaker
I don't think Harabiners, you know, um made some ah more investigation about that because you can see in many oophologists, they went there and they cancelled.
00:36:12
Speaker
erase, you see, completely o all this sign. Let's talk a bit about um the relationship of this case and the ufological community. You already said that ufologists didn't really like that case, at least the year 78 to 80. Was Sanfredo himself ever involved with any ufologists that they approached him when they found out about that case? or only in the first time, in the first time, I mean, about 1978, 1979. But then the Institute of Al-Bizan, you know, the the society for whom he worked at that time, um they
00:36:59
Speaker
They didn't like to have ah this ah UFO community around because they they were creating you know confusion.
00:37:11
Speaker
They didn't have you know a scientific ah method you see to to to study, they just create ah confusion. So and the the institute ah says no, you are not anymore around us, ah just ah keep out.
00:37:33
Speaker
yeah Yeah what what I did find quite interesting is that there was um ah some outreach to Dr J. Allen Hynek right I suppose you you um were your phone term right.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yes, because ah during a pernosis, Zamfreta says that he had to give ah an to Dr. Heineck. So i I call him by phone. He was ah working for Northwestern University at that time.
00:38:11
Speaker
and I asked him if he was interested ah you know interested to to this question but he says ah he said that he can work on this ah so subject ah and the the the best way to contact him was ah ah by pinotti Roberto Pinotti, which was who was the president of the UFO community.
00:38:47
Speaker
And after that, there was no direct involvement of Heineck. He didn't write anything about the case. No more, no more, no more. I see. What is the current situation with Senn Fretter?
Sanfretta's Legacy in UFO Lore
00:39:01
Speaker
Does he still live in the area? Is he still involved in all of this or does he just try to kind of gain distance from what happened in the past? Well, are you asking about now?
00:39:17
Speaker
Kind of the years following up until the present day, um I mean, you already said that Sanfreta changed a lot. So he was kind of a changed man through this. Well, don't forget that today the Zamfreta case is the best known UFO story in Italy. Zamfreta has been in many civil programs ah and ah I can say is very popular.
00:39:43
Speaker
Beside this story went around the world and many people know him and those events. In Italy, if you speak about youth abduction, the first name get that came up in your mind is just Zamfreta. The only problem is the difference between the real story and and there's za the Zamfreta account.
00:40:10
Speaker
Zamfreta never read my book and he can't remember what happened because at that time Dr. Moretti gave him the hypnotic order to forget everything. He did so for not to shock him even more.
00:40:29
Speaker
But the result, as you can see, was not so good because Zamfreta now is speaking ah about some fantasies, some stories very, very different from the one he lived in reality.
00:40:50
Speaker
And does he claim that he's still being abducted or does he say, well, all of this stopped after? No, I don't think he is ah following any doctor now.
00:41:02
Speaker
yeah so no no but he wasn't so After these episodes, he wasn't abducted anymore. so the ah the um the test He said ah had eleven science oh okay he But you see, we recorded just the six times because after the last one, nobody followed Zamfreta anymore.
00:41:32
Speaker
Why is that? So ah we don't have any record about ah if if something happened after 1980. Why was there no interest anymore in his case? I think ah people was ah very boring about this story, you see. and We are speaking also about an inexplicable story.
00:42:01
Speaker
So, ah since ah they didn't have any explanation, you know at the end they just tried to forget, that's it.
00:42:14
Speaker
So we we jumped around a bit, but I would like to come back to the and hypnotherapy sessions. Did Sanfredda, what did he have to say about the aliens or whatever you want to call them themselves? Did he say anything? What they looked like? What they did? um What's the information we have about that? but Well, Sanfredda is still waiting.
00:42:38
Speaker
for his aliens friends. He's still waiting. okay okay So you you see it's not easy to to talk with him now but because he's a different man.
00:42:55
Speaker
aye And it just, the in my opinion, to ah to have and a different view of of what really happened in those years. So right now, what if we can speak about a legacy of Zenfreta, it's just a strange story, a very strange story,
00:43:26
Speaker
with no explanation, but this story has been followed by the Italian military police, you see the magistrate court in general, the police itself.
00:43:47
Speaker
so We have so many, I can say, many aspects of this story that are real. ah Something happened. We don't know exactly what happened, but something did.
00:44:05
Speaker
Absolutely, and there I think there's very little doubt about that also because of the documentation is very good and sound. Just to come back to this question, did St. Fretter during the hypnosis say anything about the aliens themselves? What they looked like? What they wanted? Did they say why they abducted him? or yes yes let me see my notes because he said these aliens were very high three meters high reptilian form okay with something on the head in the and but it was like a they have a dress
00:44:54
Speaker
You see, because he was speaking about something very bright on the mouth. So he just saw the lights come out from his mouth. And that's not you know human.
00:45:12
Speaker
You can say a something and technical, you see, is something electrical. um And the he was ah also communicating with them by mind, you see, not not just by but by phone, but by voice.
00:45:36
Speaker
And so it was ah a very unusual description, but that it was. I believe one one of the reds red threads in this ah weird story is that they also gave him or promised to give him a sphere like a ball, ah some sort of object, yes. But no nobody saw that object.
00:46:08
Speaker
what what what he said is a there was a pyramid inside a sphere and this pyramid was turning around and while wire turning around ah it was ah gives some kind of electrical you see force okay and and then he up in these electrical reactions, he understood, that's what everybody he said, something like ah
00:46:45
Speaker
unusual. We don't know exactly what. You see, I i didn't give so many so much importance to this because I never saw that the object and nobody did. So it was just ah believe or not believe.
DiStefano's Journalistic Reflection
00:47:06
Speaker
Well, I don't like this kind of situation.
00:47:09
Speaker
I like the fact, okay, I like to have some proof about that but my not just a words or an explanation by words. So we didn't have any material fact about ah this object.
00:47:29
Speaker
No, it's interesting. I think it's one of those things. um ah but Abduction cases by default appear to be ambiguous in many ways. um I always ask myself the question, why would a highly evolved aliens abduct people, you know, and do it over and over again?
00:47:48
Speaker
and ah But then you have certain things that do point to the objectivity of these facts. so it's it's it's very um there There's a lot of ambiguity in these cases, but we should take them seriously because they are part of the wider UFO um phenomenon. so Just one one other aspect. This region around ah Genoa,
00:48:12
Speaker
were Were there other UFO cases or did it really all start with Sunfreta? Well, after Sunfreta, we didn't have ah any more phenomena like that. okay and No more UFO was ah so frequent in in in in general.
00:48:38
Speaker
Once in a while, yes, that there is some kind of UFO in the sky. okay We can see something, but the period, the the the real ah period with many UFO sightings were that one from 1978 to 1980.
00:49:05
Speaker
So it's not really a hotspot, this this area. no no no Interesting. So it's been a very long time since you've had to deal with this case and had to think about Zenfreta and so on. Do you still find yourself thinking about this case or is it something you've put to the back of your mind and you just ah leave it alone?
00:49:34
Speaker
Well, a I think I lived a very unusual experience for two years. And I didn't find any explanation, any rational explanation to what ah I lived ah in ah in in those two years. But what is more confusing It depends on the number of eyewitnesses i I interview. Too many, too many, I think. Because you see, only the Carabiners found 52 eyewitnesses.
00:50:17
Speaker
52 a lot of people. Yes. And I found um many many other person and they told me, yes, I saw that that that object in the sky, a very bright object.
00:50:32
Speaker
very large object we are not speaking about a little object very far you see no we are speaking about a large object and in some occasion 50 meters 80 meters ah from the ground So, you see, it was very the very bright, but very real in people's impressions.
00:51:11
Speaker
and So, it's is this entire UFO thing, the Isantreta case, something you still work on, or have you moved on to other things? I suppose UFOs were never really your main topic, right, in your journalistic career. No, no, no. It's just in my memory. yeah and yeah rejecting my memory is ah i I think I live a very unusual experience and It was in in my in my background ah guy by megra because I didn't live any more a situation like this in in the years ah to come. And I think this makes you a book. I'm going to put the link to your book on Amazon into the description of this episode so people can check it out. It's a very, very good book. I really enjoyed reading it.
00:52:05
Speaker
And I think this is what makes your book so special is because you're not a typical UFO person. you yeah So you consider this case from a very serious journalistic point of view and you deal you deal with it in a rational way. And this makes your book so great because in a lot of UFO circles, you know, they always have their own agenda and they say, oh, it's aliens from this planet or that planet.
00:52:32
Speaker
what you don't do that you just report the facts and that's something that's really really good that's what i try to do yes. Great mr de stephanie thanks a lot for today it was really helpful thank you and as i said i will put the link to ah to your excellent book the santretta case in the description of this episode so thank