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Ep. 70: How to Build a Business by Accident with Titan Ring Designs
293 Plays12 days ago
In this episode of The Lone Machinist, Jamie and Curt are joined by Trevor from Titan Ring Designs, and things get deep… like “question your entire life path while holding a mic” deep.
What starts as a simple chat about machining quickly turns into a full-blown masterclass on creativity, risk-taking, and why making tiny, ridiculously intricate titanium parts might actually be the most logical life choice.
Trevor walks us through his journey from school shop kid to teaching machining, to quitting it all to chase building cool stuff full-time, all from a backyard shop that’s smaller than most people’s garages. Along the way, we get into artistic machining, tumbling black magic, and the reality of turning passion into something that (hopefully) pays the bills.
There’s also a healthy dose of “just send it” energy, some very real talk about the education system, and a reminder that maybe… just maybe… playing it safe isn’t the safest option after all.
If you’ve ever thought about starting your own thing, making something from scratch, or just escaping the 9–5 grind, this one’s going to hit a little too close to home.
Links Discussed:
- jim carey speech: https://youtu.be/nLgHNu2N3JU?si=wzxY6ad-PFJC-CBB
- Jeff McWhinney Designs: https://mcwhinneydesigns.com/
- Titan Ring Designs: https://titanringdesigns.com/products/
- Fancy Flashlight link: https://www.coolfall.com/pShop.html
The Lone Machinist:
- Website: https://thelonemachinists.com/
- Bonus Content: https://thelonemachinists.com/#bonus-content
- Merch: https://www.jspeceng.com/online-store
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/TheLoneMachinists
Need Work Done? Check out Subtract Manufacturing at: https://subtractmanufacturing.com/
Want to try out Toolpath? Give it a go and get 10% off by using the code TLM10 at checkout: https://toolpath.com/
Jamie:
Curt:
Trevor:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Trevor from Titan Ring Designs
00:00:00
jamie peacock
Welcome to the Loan Machinist, so it's just you, the work and your machines. Today there's more than just Kurt and I. Today we've got Trevor from Titan Ring Designs and we're going to interrogate him about all sorts of interesting things that Kurt and I want to know about.
00:00:13
Curt
Yeah.
00:00:13
jamie peacock
How are you guys this day?
00:00:14
Curt
So thank I'd say, yeah, thanks for joining us, Trevor.
00:00:17
Trevor Hirschi
Awesome.
00:00:18
Curt
And ah yeah thanks for making time. And I know I have a billion questions. Jamie has billion questions. So yeah, it'd be it'd be fun.
00:00:24
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. Happy to be here.
00:00:26
Curt
Sweet.
00:00:26
jamie peacock
Awesome.
Trevor's Journey into Machining
00:00:27
jamie peacock
So ah I think let's start where everyone wants to start with the boring stuff, the schooling and whatnot, how you got into the trade.
00:00:28
Curt
Cool.
00:00:38
Trevor Hirschi
So the school I went to for machining is actually, offered through my, my high school. And, I had ah an auto class teacher that said, you know what, you've got a little bit more um detail orientation to you than these other kids do.
00:00:56
Trevor Hirschi
um <unk> you're You're different from the rest of the crowd in the auto crowd. And he pushed me to go go try out this machining course that was, you know, was like half an hour away from from where I'm at, but they would bus us there. and You know, it was good because it took about like 70 minutes of bus time in the day. And I only had about 60, 55 minutes, 60 minutes of class time to really get introduction in you know an introduction to machining.
00:01:25
Trevor Hirschi
And I just fell in love with it because I i could make anything. I had a motorcycle that I broke like my foot peg on. And it was some some cheap Chinese bike and I couldn't get a replacement part for it. And so my teacher was like, why don't you just make one?
00:01:43
Trevor Hirschi
oh, I can do that. That's, that's awesome. Okay. Well, yeah, let's, you know, help me figure this out. So he kind of helped me do some things and like taught me some, some stuff that, you know, required some unique setups. And I was just hooked. Like this was just the coolest thing ever.
00:01:59
Trevor Hirschi
And my, my mom has an artistic background and my dad has, you know, ah an automotive, he's uh, uh, a painter did auto body for, you know, years and years and years. And was really good at that. So There's like all this painting and artist history in my family that kind of, I don't know, I feel like predisposed me to the the creativity side of of what machining can do. And in in the school that I was at,
00:02:26
Trevor Hirschi
um after I graduated high school and then went into the full-time course, they would allow us to work on personal projects on Fridays, just Fridays. That was it. If you were there on time, if you had your progress in order and everything was looking good, like all that stuff that say, yeah, you can, you can screw off and play on Fridays. And so I'd show up on Fridays every week to come do just something to screw off, just learn and make something that I wanted to make.
00:02:59
Trevor Hirschi
And I probably ended up taking a lot more time in the program than I should have, but I learned a lot more and I had a lot more fun and it was really what, you know, kept
Professional Growth in Machine Shops
00:03:09
Trevor Hirschi
me in it. So I got a job in in a machine shop, a big job shop that has kind of since moved into more contract work with the bigger, you know, Boeing and NASA and Northrop Grum and all the big defense contractors.
00:03:24
Trevor Hirschi
um Now they do a lot of firearm components and medical stuff too. So I had a ah big mix of everything from roller coaster parts to like titanium spine implants, rocket booster parts, wheels for cars, just everything. you know It was just this huge, diverse group of offerings in in machining. So
Mentorship with Jeff McWinney
00:03:53
Trevor Hirschi
I got to learn a lot there.
00:03:55
Trevor Hirschi
Um, it was, it was a lot of fun. a while after that, I, um, got to go work in California for a friend named Jeff McWinney got to be good friends with him.
00:04:08
Trevor Hirschi
Um, because I had made, i had made my own wedding ring. and he we we kind of found each other well i guess i found him he had a an article in fast company i don't remember if it was fast company or entrepreneur but one of the two because he had an article in in both of those that was really big and i found him just through that i think my grandma had like you know stacks of magazines that she subscribed to like most grandparents do for some reason And I was just flipping through this, like, you know, architecture, like now boring and then like popular mechanics. I don't know why my grandma had popular mechanics, you know, but anyways, she had entrepreneur and fast company. And I don't remember which one of those, but I found Jeff McWinney through that.
00:04:54
Trevor Hirschi
And I started emailing him, asking him questions, just started to talk to him. And, and he's like, you type a lot. Just, just call me. Here's my phone. Let's just talk on the phone, man. I'm i'm old. I don't want to type.
00:05:08
Trevor Hirschi
And so I started talking to him on the phone and we just got to be, you know, kind of good friends. And, um, later he, he offered me a job. He said, you know, and come, come out work for me in California. And, um,
00:05:22
Trevor Hirschi
I was kind of like, that sounds kind of cool. You know, that's a good opportunity. So I, I moved out there and worked in the Bay area for a year.
00:05:33
Trevor Hirschi
Just, I got paid to play. I didn't really work. He just, you know, paid me to show up every day and and make cool stuff. and And it was fun because I got to help with, ah I don't know, he he and I are kind of kind kindred spirits in the design sense.
00:05:48
Trevor Hirschi
He would, he would have this idea and, know, you know, for being 30 years, my senior, you know, he'd come say, how do you, what do you think about this? You know, you've, you've done some things with, with this kind of setup or, you know, what do you know about that? and And, and I'd kind of look at it from a different perspective with him and go, well, I, what do you think about this? Cause I don't, I don't see how that will work or, you know, it it was just good. Cause he was a one man band and it was just good to have somebody to, you know, bounce ideas off of each other.
00:06:19
Trevor Hirschi
And so we we just grew this friendship. And at one point we figured out, we learned that my wife was pregnant and the Bay Area is not not really cheap for having a family or you know having having a baby.
00:06:33
Curt
Yeah. Okay.
00:06:36
Trevor Hirschi
And so I was like, well, I would like to go back to Utah,
Building a Workshop in Utah
00:06:41
Trevor Hirschi
but I really enjoy this work. And he was like, well, if you had a place to work from home, you know, a place to put a machine, an air compressor and a bench, you know, all the stuff that kind of need for this little machine shop, you could take half company back home to Utah with you.
00:06:58
Trevor Hirschi
So I sent my dad like every paycheck. I was just like here, sending the money and and like, dad, go, go build this shop in the backyard. Cause he had a, a decent sized concrete pad and that's now my shop.
00:07:12
Trevor Hirschi
It's not big. It's, it's I think it's roughly 17 and a half by 11 and a half or something like that. So not, not 200 square feet.
00:07:20
Curt
Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. Right.
00:07:22
Trevor Hirschi
I mean, my garage would be bigger. My garage is probably about the size of, of yours, Kurt, but yeah. um yeah, small small shop. It fits. you know Office mill's tiny. um The bench, you know the lathe and all that stuff is is pretty small. so It works.
00:07:39
Trevor Hirschi
um but We ended up moving back here to Utah. It was in in at this house that I'm at right now, which is kind of where i I grew up. My parents built this house when I was six, seven years old, I think. and so I've kind of lived here you know from that point.
00:07:57
Trevor Hirschi
Until I was you know older, 18, off on my own and doing different things in apartments and all over the place. But we bought um we bought the house three years ago for my parents because they were building a new house. And it's like, i can't I can't lose
Balancing Family and Work
00:08:15
Trevor Hirschi
my shop. I need that. And my dad had kind of planned, well, you know you could put your stuff in in my shop because he's he's retired and he doesn't do as much auto body stuff anymore. So he's got a little bit of space.
00:08:26
Trevor Hirschi
Um, but I, I kind of liked that it was here and every time I'd come over here, you know, it still felt like home and it was like, yeah, this would be great to, you know, just have, have the shop right there.
00:08:26
Curt
Sure.
00:08:38
Trevor Hirschi
You know, it's 30 feet from the house. And, um, I just, that sounded so awesome to me. So it's like, you know, we've got to figure out how to buy the house. And I still don't know how it worked, but but it worked out and got the house.
00:08:50
Trevor Hirschi
So.
00:08:52
Curt
Oh, that's kind of cool.
00:08:52
Trevor Hirschi
And all i yeah now I just make stuff in in the backyard and try to, don't know, do what everybody else does and figure out their way in this world and survive.
00:09:02
Curt
Oh, that's, that's cool. I mean, like, like if anybody's seen your work and if you haven't folks go check it out, cause like the stuff you make is it's machined, but it's like, it has a huge artistic flair to it. Like you put like everything you make is is just, it's pretty.
00:09:15
Curt
Um, and I mean, maybe that's partially your mom.
00:09:15
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:09:17
Curt
It's kind of crafty or like a art side coming through or something.
00:09:19
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I don't know. I've had this...
00:09:21
Curt
Yeah.
00:09:21
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I might attribute it more to my dad on the automotive side because anything that was ever aluminum in the car world, you know, whether he was working on motorcycles or cars or trucks, whatever it was that he was building, you know, any aluminum component, like he'd go to the buffing wheel and he'd turn it into chrome.
00:09:29
Curt
Mm hmm.
00:09:39
Curt
ah
00:09:39
Trevor Hirschi
And there's just this shine, right? Like I have this fascination with light and diffraction and, you know, the sun, just all all all these components that like, so so when you take like titanium and you surface it, you know, you just get these awesome diffraction gratings that is like not possible any other way.
00:09:54
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:09:59
Trevor Hirschi
um And it's like, that's so cool to me.
00:10:00
jamie peacock
Thank you.
00:10:01
Trevor Hirschi
So yeah, the the fascination with like how light bounces off of a surface, I think that's more of the automotive side of, you know, help chrome on a bumper, you know, from my dad's old, you know, 72 Camaro and stuff like that. It's just hot rods, I think was the the bad backbone to what got me into that. But yeah.
00:10:23
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I just, the the artistic side of it is is mixed in.
00:10:24
Curt
that's That's cool.
00:10:28
Trevor Hirschi
And then the mechanical side from my dad, you know, has has helped a big part of that. So, yeah, definitely.
00:10:34
Curt
Yeah, i so I should say too, yeah, because like a lot of your stuff is intricate. Like and I love the intricacies you put into it.
00:10:39
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:10:40
Curt
It's so pretty. Yeah.
00:10:42
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I really enjoyed... um the micro kind of world of machining as I as i worked in ah the medical implants were were the big thing. And and you know it was it was fascinating to me that the parts were expensive compared to other parts that I saw in the shop.
00:11:01
Trevor Hirschi
And it was like, well, why is it so much more money? you know Because it's it's just this little teeny tiny part. And it's like, well, it's on the five axis and it's got way more intense ah You know, dimensioning tolerancing on it, their surface finish requirements, um the setup's different. I thought it was neat that like, you know, these guys that were running these these bridge mills that like I could walk underneath the spindle in the same shop.
00:11:30
Trevor Hirschi
um they're like, you know, craning components to like roller coasters onto their, their machine. I mean, like the setups would take like a week, you know, just get this part ready for, you know, some of these cuts. And then like, and then if they had a crash, you know, it was just like this crazy nightmare scenario, right. For the cost and the time and everything. And then meanwhile, these guys over on the medical stuff, it's like, okay, this guy scrapped a tool and it was like $12 for that, you know, 10 mil.
00:12:00
Trevor Hirschi
and And then like when the part went flying, it was just like, and I just thought that was cool.
00:12:04
Curt
Sure.
00:12:05
Trevor Hirschi
was like, okay, so you got these two different worlds, like the same shop, they're making these massive parts for rockets and roller coasters. And the other shop, or the other side of the shop, they've got these micro things that are like, you know, crazy tolerances and tight finishes and stuff.
Critique of the Education System
00:12:20
Trevor Hirschi
I don't know, i I gravitated more towards the micro stuff. It was more interesting to me, maybe because I was afraid of big things like coming off and you know taking my head off with them.
00:12:26
Curt
sure
00:12:31
Trevor Hirschi
um So I don't know, the micro stuff was neat. And then when I went worked for Jeff, he just like, I don't know, he just magnified it for me. It was like, oh my gosh, I can i can take this micro assembly and you know actually make these things, you know like getting into the watch stuff that he did.
00:12:50
Trevor Hirschi
um i mean like machining a seconds hand for a watch is like the smallest thing i've ever made and it was just it just blew my mind you know it was it was crazy that we could hold these things and accurately make them um and make them well and you know just all that it is just so cool so working into a microscope uh is is kind of fun to me i don't know that i'm like as awesome as john grimsma would be um But I enjoy it and, you know, I don't know.
00:13:24
Trevor Hirschi
It's fun.
00:13:26
Curt
So you said you left the Bay area to to go to Utah.
00:13:29
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:13:29
Curt
So I'm assuming the Bay area, you were basically at a full-time job. And from what I understand now, do you do you do like Titan ring design part-time, full-time? Like what's your setup there if you want to talk?
00:13:40
Trevor Hirschi
Good question. ah
00:13:42
Curt
Yeah.
00:13:42
Trevor Hirschi
So six, seven months ago, i i left my full time job. I was a teacher and I taught machining.
00:13:49
Curt
Okay.
00:13:51
Trevor Hirschi
So at the same school that I went to, ah my high school teacher was always a good friend of mine.
00:13:52
Curt
Oh, cool.
00:13:57
Trevor Hirschi
And after I left McWinney making rings, he he couldn't afford me at one point after moving back here to Utah. And and it was kind of a like, scary, like, oh, man, what do i do? This is I just lost my job, basically, you know, and
00:14:12
Curt
Hmm.
00:14:12
Trevor Hirschi
um I went to work for a friend for for ah a month or two. And then my teacher said, hey, he called me up out of the blue and just said, hey, and I know you're probably making millions making rings and stuff like that. I was like you know laughed at him He's like, hey, there's ah an opening here at the school.
00:14:29
Trevor Hirschi
If you wouldn't mind, you should throw your resume in. And I got the job. So I taught there for eight years teaching the same you know principles that I you know started off with. and And I really enjoyed it. um It was great to share that that interest and passion that I have for creating things.
00:14:49
Trevor Hirschi
And you know my my boss, he was happy to have me because I brought this creative aspect to what I did that was not very um there previously.
00:15:04
Trevor Hirschi
um And so it was just it was a fun environment. But I left because I i didn't feel like I was growing anymore. You don't make any money as a teacher.
00:15:15
Trevor Hirschi
I don't know that I'm going to make any money as ah an artist making, you know, useless cool stuff either. But I just felt I wasn't being pushed to grow. And it really bothered me that um the higher education system, I think, is very corrupt and flawed.
00:15:36
Trevor Hirschi
they would very much push for students getting hands-on career education training, right? You can come get this this certificate, this, you know, not a degree, but a certificate of completion, whatever you want to call it, um and go get a job with with no student loan debt.
00:15:55
Trevor Hirschi
Meanwhile, the guys up on the hill at the university, they go get a, you know, a degree for four, eight, 10 years plus and have all this student loan debt and then they don't get a job that they want.
00:16:09
Trevor Hirschi
And i resonated with that, but the school applied the opposite to its faculty. So for me to improve, you know, to to gain any more financially, I had to go up on the hill and get a degree.
00:16:24
Trevor Hirschi
And guess what? There's not a degree in in machining, and that's what I like to do.
00:16:29
Curt
Right.
00:16:30
Trevor Hirschi
So I could go do engineering or something that would apply, but it just, it really rubbed me the wrong way that, you know, If you go get degree in business management that has zero application to machining, now it would apply to teaching a little bit, but...
00:16:46
Trevor Hirschi
i I couldn't go get Mastercam certified or SolidWorks certified or, you know, HAWS or Mazak or, you know, whatever resources we had for training to better what we're actually teaching to students, what they would actually use.
00:17:03
Trevor Hirschi
They'd give you a high five, you know, good for you.
00:17:03
Curt
Right.
00:17:05
Trevor Hirschi
Good for going and chasing that stuff. But until you go get to bachelor's, a master's, a doctorate, PhD, whatever, you're not going to make any more money. And I thought that that was wrong.
00:17:17
Trevor Hirschi
They were also pushing more.
00:17:22
Trevor Hirschi
They were cutting from what we were being allowed to teach. every It seemed like every year they would be like, hey, we got to cut time down. Well, I want to put more time into what we teach people, not less.
00:17:34
Trevor Hirschi
Like if we want to make good machinists, like that's experience, right?
00:17:35
Curt
Right.
00:17:38
Trevor Hirschi
Like if I could, you know, I would tell people this. I would tell my bosses this. I would tell the students this. if if you can If you want to go learn piano and you've got the option of a thousand hour course and a hundred hour course for the same cost,
00:17:53
Trevor Hirschi
and you have the time either, what are you gonna do? you're gonna You're gonna take the thousand hour course because it's practice to that craft that makes that you know a honed skill.
00:18:05
Trevor Hirschi
And I felt that that was no different in what what we do as machinists. And they were taking you know more and more and more and more. I didn't feel that was right. So I, all all of these things kind of snowballed for me and it was just like, you know what, I'm, I'm done with this place. I just can't do it anymore.
00:18:27
Trevor Hirschi
You know, I feel
Trusting Opportunities and Taking Risks
00:18:28
Trevor Hirschi
bad. My boss is he's still a great friend and he, you know, he was like, I'm, I'm sad that you're leaving. um But I understand, i get what you're doing and and why you're doing it. So,
00:18:40
Trevor Hirschi
i don't I don't know where I'm going. I'm just here trying to make stuff. My wife's got some things, you know, she does a bakery too at home and things like that. But I just, I don't know, I take it a day at a time and I trust that the big man upstairs, God's got a plan for me and he'll figure out what's best for me. Because up to this point, that's kind of what I've done is just kind of, you know, all right, trust that trust that God will take care of this because he always seems to have a better plan than what mine works out anyways.
00:19:15
Trevor Hirschi
it's It's very interesting to see that when you have that mentality, because I think I see it more than i would say people who don't think that way do. I mean, for example, I was going to try to buy the machine that I have um before I met or no no, before I went to California and worked for my friend, Jeff. And I had funding, you know, figured out and i was working on like how to get it in the shop, into the garage because the shop wasn't there yet.
00:19:44
Trevor Hirschi
But the sale went, they sold it out from under me and I was just, just heartbroken. And i am I'm so glad now looking back because The machine is like, I don't know, a fourth and eighth of a machine shop, really.
00:19:59
Trevor Hirschi
Like, you know, you've got to have lices and tool holders and end mills and coolant and cam software and desk.
00:20:01
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:20:07
Trevor Hirschi
And, but you know, i mean, just all the whole package, right? i mean, like I told someone the other day that was complaining about what they do. I was like, dude, I have a drawer of like end mills. That's probably 10 grand. Like, don't tell me, don't complain about what you're doing and tell me it's expensive.
00:20:17
Curt
Right.
00:20:20
Trevor Hirschi
Like get into manufacturing, get into machining. That's expensive. But like, i didn't have any of that in place, right? Like I had saw the machine and that was all. And it fell out from under me.
00:20:32
Trevor Hirschi
And then a couple of years later, like I get this opportunity to go work for a friend and establish this relationship, which led to now I have that equipment. Now I have that machine. And it was like,
00:20:44
Trevor Hirschi
I couldn't have planned it that way. I know that that that was from that dude up there. So it's it's very interesting to watch for those things. And I i don't know. i'm I'm very much that way, I guess.
00:20:56
Trevor Hirschi
So.
00:20:57
Curt
No, i and makes so I mean, me and my wife talk about all time. Like I know certain people that same thing. They're like, this never works out. This never plans out for me. And some people that's like, it always works out for me.
00:21:07
Curt
And I think it's just like, i think this is the concept of like having your eyes open and just being like ready for when things come. Like you can make your own luck if you see the luck coming. Like it just, there's,
00:21:17
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:17
jamie peacock
Be willing to accept it when it arrives.
00:21:20
Curt
Totally. Exactly. Yeah. And whether you attribute that to whatever you believe in, it just like, yeah, as long as you're, as long as you have a, an open mind for it, it's yeah, exactly.
00:21:21
jamie peacock
I
00:21:27
jamie peacock
had the same thing with my mill. I wanted to buy another mill. It got sold out from under me. I ended up spending twice as much money, but I got a 10 times better machine. And it I'm very glad that it worked out the way it worked out.
00:21:37
Curt
Exactly.
00:21:40
jamie peacock
Okay. Because I now have the LK. And yeah, you've just got to be accepting of what comes and be ready to take opportunities when they're there. And also gamble on yourself.
00:21:49
Trevor Hirschi
For sure.
00:21:50
jamie peacock
Gambling on yourself helps.
00:21:52
Trevor Hirschi
Well, that's a, that's another thing that people don't like, it was a huge risk for me to go and do this. And like every, I mean, every day and every week and every month since has been a a new adventure and it's a journey.
00:22:06
Trevor Hirschi
Um, But I don't know that I would have done any of that without you know taking a risk. People are just like, we only at one life.
00:22:13
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:22:15
Trevor Hirschi
like what do you What are you doing? You're just driving in traffic for like three hours a day and like you go show up to a cubicle and like, no, screw that, man. like I walk out in the in the green grass to my backyard and like I open the garage door.
00:22:30
Trevor Hirschi
i go start the machines. I go push the kids on the swings. I go hit start. I go jump in the pool. And then I go back and I take parts out and then I go pick raspberries for my garden. It's like, take risks. Like, okay, what if tomorrow I lose it all?
00:22:46
Trevor Hirschi
Guess what? When you die, you don't get to take any of it anyways.
00:22:47
jamie peacock
I know.
00:22:47
Curt
Yeah. I, uh,
00:22:48
Trevor Hirschi
So why not?
00:22:49
jamie peacock
exactly
00:22:50
Trevor Hirschi
else Go flip and do the fun things.
00:22:51
Curt
i i will I will link a speech that ah Jim Carrey did and it's but between it's about him and his father or his father and him and how like he took the risk to become a comedian and his father was actually quite funny but wanted a stable job as an accountant and built up this huge career and then the firm closed and lost his job.
00:23:00
Trevor Hirschi
Mm-hmm.
00:23:09
Curt
and just like He's like, you can take the risk and and fail he's like or you can not take the risk and still fail.
00:23:13
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:23:15
Curt
so it's like if If you have something you're passionate about, go for it. like If you can, it's that's that's coming from ah a place of a little bit of privilege.
00:23:19
jamie peacock
so so i've got a
00:23:19
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:23:22
Curt
Some people can't afford to do that but
00:23:23
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:23:24
Curt
Try, right?
00:23:24
Trevor Hirschi
Well, I mean, that privilege is still like, I mean, i don't come from a wealthy background. it's It's not a thing, you know?
00:23:33
Curt
Sure.
00:23:33
Trevor Hirschi
So like privileges, everyone's privilege is different. You know everybody's ah in a different a different world. It's interesting to hear stories that people come from the from rags to riches sort of things.
00:23:46
Trevor Hirschi
But i I wholeheartedly agree with that.
00:23:46
Curt
Absolutely, yeah.
00:23:49
Trevor Hirschi
Like if you don't take chance and risks, you don't you don't grow, right? it Comfort zones, are called that because they they keep you comfortable.
00:24:00
Curt
Yeah.
00:24:01
Trevor Hirschi
Growth doesn't happen in comfort zones.
00:24:01
jamie peacock
yeah nope so I've got a customer on his wall he's got a thing there the definition of hell is laying on your deathbed and realizing you didn't reach your full potential and I'm like yeah
00:24:03
Trevor Hirschi
It happens when you leave. um
00:24:14
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. Yeah. How many, how many people, you know, like old, old folks in old folk homes that like they interview and like, what do you regret in life? You know, and and it's always these things like, I wish I would have done this.
00:24:23
jamie peacock
yeah
00:24:28
Trevor Hirschi
Why didn't you? all cause I was scared. I was afraid to do it.
00:24:31
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:24:31
Trevor Hirschi
I was afraid that I would fail.
00:24:34
jamie peacock
There's an adverts.
00:24:34
Trevor Hirschi
Failure only helps you find the the right way forward.
00:24:39
jamie peacock
Yeah. 100%. Every failure in your life has got you to this point. Fuck.
00:24:43
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:24:44
jamie peacock
Yeah, there was a there's an advert Danica and I saw we went to watch a movie and it played before the movie because I don't watch adverts. It was for retirement annuity. And it's a bunch of old people in a car going up a hill in Italy, creating traffic because they waited till they retired. And now they're driving at like 10 miles an hour and ruining it forever. And then you're like a whole bunch of these things where they too old to actually enjoy what what they saved up for the entire life to do.
00:25:11
jamie peacock
I don't know.
00:25:12
Curt
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:25:14
jamie peacock
I'm a fan of enjoying it while I'm semi-young.
00:25:17
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. um ah My dad just retired a couple of years ago and, and I was with him and he was talking to, actually, he was talking to my, my old boss at the school and he was like, what are you going to now? And my dad says, you know, I'm going to go in and enjoy retirement. going to play with grandkids and, you know, work on my car and, you know, the things that he wants to do now. and it's like, how sad is it that we live in these,
00:25:40
Trevor Hirschi
You know, you get to where you're 60, 70 and your body starts breaking down and you can't enjoy those things. You know, I about like getting up and, and going out and working.
00:25:49
Curt
Yeah.
00:25:54
Trevor Hirschi
But like when my kids are like, dad, come help me with this net and catch this butterfly. was like, I'm going drop my, my calipers I'm going to go do
Listener Questions on Machining Techniques
00:26:01
Trevor Hirschi
that. It's only going to take, don't know, 10 minutes to satisfy their, their curiosity of, can we catch this butterfly?
00:26:02
jamie peacock
No, 100%.
00:26:07
Trevor Hirschi
But like, you know, at the, at the end of your life, who's going to remember that you worked to the bone It's not going to be the the people that you work for. It's it's your kids. They're going to be the ones that are harmed by, I didn't get that experience with dad.
00:26:24
Trevor Hirschi
Missed out on that.
00:26:25
Curt
Absolutely. Yeah. No, totally. Totally. Cool.
00:26:31
jamie peacock
I have questions now that the whole case turned off. don't have to stress about that. I'd also booked someone to come and fetch something at half past six.
00:26:36
Curt
ah
00:26:39
jamie peacock
But yeah, they're a lot savings for the win. um Yeah, I have many, many questions about many of the things you do. Dovetail workholding.
00:26:49
Trevor Hirschi
What about it?
00:26:51
jamie peacock
Do you like it? I'm gonna assume yes.
00:26:53
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:53
jamie peacock
Magic.
00:26:54
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. I, uh, I mean, it's, it's a big thing in multi-access work. A lot of people do it. It's, um, you know, it requires a setup to do a dovetail, but I think when it opens more, more capability to access things from more angles, more sides, uh, you know, it's, it's got really good rigidity.
00:26:59
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:27:03
jamie peacock
Oh no.
00:27:11
jamie peacock
Or even hold with less material.
00:27:14
jamie peacock
Yeah, shockingly good. Shockingly good rigidity for how little material you clamp with.
00:27:14
Trevor Hirschi
Say that again.
00:27:19
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, deceptive rigidity, I think.
00:27:21
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:27:22
Trevor Hirschi
You know you would think, how is that possible? you know How can I hold onto that thing? But it works really well. um I did it through through machine shops that I worked at.
00:27:29
Curt
Well, that
00:27:32
Trevor Hirschi
And when I was at the school and started teaching five axis stuff, um it was more of a like, well, let's show students you know the the tricks of the trade.
00:27:43
Trevor Hirschi
And that's one of them that that comes up more often now. So yeah, I like it. And and i'm you know I've only got four axis and it it works for that still too, but on a micro scale.
00:27:47
jamie peacock
Yeah, find that. Yeah.
00:27:54
jamie peacock
Yes, I find that it's just not a commonly used technique in like the smaller shops. I think if you step up to five axis, then yeah, everyone's using it. But in the smaller shops, like the hobby, there's just no use of it.
00:28:08
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I guess I can see that. It's more of an industrial thing, but I don't know.
00:28:12
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:28:13
Trevor Hirschi
It's just when you've worked in that and used it so much, like, I mean, I know one of your questions coming up here is is something that I got from McWinney. We'll leave that for just in a minute, but it was something that I learned working for Jeff McWinney and it was like, this is incredible.
00:28:30
Trevor Hirschi
I mean, it's not for For some people, no, it's not going work. But for for what we were doing, what he was doing, what I do, oh, it's a no-brainer.
00:28:40
Curt
Well, especially that little, I mean, ah I'll just call it a manifold for right now, the little triangular titanium peat part you're making, which looks fantastic. And same thing, like it's tiny.
00:28:49
jamie peacock
It looks amazing.
00:28:50
Curt
It's like what, a an inch flat little square, maybe a quarter inch thick, maybe thicker.
00:28:54
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, it's about an inch and quarter wide, I think.
00:28:55
Curt
And it's a
00:28:58
Trevor Hirschi
Long, about half an inch wide.
00:28:59
Curt
it's and's so cool and surfaced everywhere. It looks it looks really nice.
00:29:03
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. Yeah. There's only like three flat surfaces on the part.
00:29:07
Curt
ah That's awesome.
00:29:09
Trevor Hirschi
So yeah, it's sitting on, it's sitting over here on my, it's not completely done, but it's assembled.
00:29:10
Curt
I'm curious to see what that comes out to. So that's that's awesome.
00:29:16
Trevor Hirschi
It's not assembled finished, but it's assembled. Cause I, as I work, I'm like, I gotta put these things together and see how this comes to, you know, I 3d print things, but yeah, it's sitting here next to me and I can't show it yet.
00:29:19
Curt
Oh, cool.
00:29:26
Trevor Hirschi
I'm almost done and I'll show it.
00:29:27
Curt
No, no. no no No worries.
00:29:28
Trevor Hirschi
but
00:29:28
Curt
No worries. Everyone wait. Yeah.
00:29:30
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:29:30
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:29:32
Curt
Cool.
00:29:33
jamie peacock
And then, yeah, I see you've got one of the spinny spinny tumblers. Have you ever used the vibratory ones?
00:29:39
Trevor Hirschi
I don't have one, but I have used them. So the machine shop that I started at they had huge ones.
00:29:41
jamie peacock
Wow.
00:29:44
Trevor Hirschi
They had a room that ah you had to have ear protection on or you would be deaf by the time you came out.
00:29:49
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:29:51
Trevor Hirschi
I mean, they had probably, i don't know, five of these massive industrial tumblers that were like... I don't know, 10, 10 feet. They had a long, long ones that were, you know, maybe a foot, 18 inches wide and maybe two feet deep. And they're just constantly rolling parts. They had big round ones. They just had this huge tumbler room. So I've used the vibratory ones.
00:30:15
Trevor Hirschi
um And I guess, you know, for, for what you're trying to achieve and and accomplish with them, they each have purposes and and uses. Yeah.
00:30:24
jamie peacock
Yeah, it's quite compact and quite small, yeah.
00:30:25
Trevor Hirschi
I have the one that I have because I got it through, you know, experience working through Jeff McWinney doing the ring stuff. And it's, it's, it's sold by Rio Grande. So, I mean, they're a jewelry supplier and, you know, that's just their, their specialties is just jewelry stuff. So like, you know, you make this thing and it's, it's only, I think it's a,
00:30:46
Trevor Hirschi
a six liter bowl or something like that. I can't remember if for sure the spec on it, but I know a handful of other of the guys in the instant machinist community that have them and and use them.
00:30:48
jamie peacock
and squa quite small yeah
00:30:55
Trevor Hirschi
But every once in a while, I still get people that are like, tell me about that thing. yeah how How do you like it? and And they're not they're not crazy expensive. Say that again?
00:31:02
jamie peacock
They quite lot quicker than vibratory aren't they?
00:31:02
Curt
No.
00:31:04
Trevor Hirschi
breath for it said again
00:31:09
jamie peacock
They're quite a lot quicker than vibratory when it comes to deburring as far as understand it.
00:31:16
Trevor Hirschi
I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't tell you that.
00:31:19
jamie peacock
Yeah, as far as I know, they they do it but yeah they do a bit faster job than the vibratory.
00:31:19
Trevor Hirschi
I just like the way it finishes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:24
jamie peacock
Vibratory slow as hell.
00:31:27
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:31:27
Curt
Yeah, I know ah know.
00:31:29
jamie peacock
ah
00:31:30
Curt
I know I'm i'm guilty of a bending your ear for buying one. ah For the folks listening, I think it's the Avalon EC6, like a wet centrifugal tumbler. They're super cool. yeah And the the finishes you can pull off those things are nuts.
00:31:44
Trevor Hirschi
Well, that's what's crazy is that I didn't know that more was possible with it. When I worked for Jeff, he had one media, just this blue, blue, they're about quarter of an inch blue pyramids.
00:31:50
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:31:57
Trevor Hirschi
And they they're they're abrasive and they wear down over time. So they get smaller and like, you know, at about an eighth of an inch, it's like they start sticking everywhere and in cracks and crevices and holes and things like that.
00:32:09
Trevor Hirschi
and they become a real pain to... get out, but um he had only used this one one media type for forever, and we'd throw the parts in to deburr them, and they worked really well for you know removing the hand finishing on these ring components that we were making.
00:32:26
Trevor Hirschi
um But yes, if you leave them in for too long, and and there's a timer, so you don't have that problem too often, but you know we would try something out, and it's like, uh-oh, let's dial that back.
00:32:38
Trevor Hirschi
I'll only put it in there for 20 minutes or half an hour or something. then But I liked the way that the one fish would come out.
00:32:41
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:32:46
Trevor Hirschi
But then i was I was looking for more because I saw something. There was a, I think somebody sent me this process video of some wheel manufacturer makes these you know billet aluminum wheels for like cars and trucks and stuff.
00:33:00
Trevor Hirschi
And every bit of the finish is done by the tumbler and it comes out mirror finish. And was like, no way that's possible. I did not know that I could do that with the machine that I have sitting here. And so I made it one of my, I think my last...
00:33:17
Trevor Hirschi
my last trip to IMTS, I spent a good amount of time like wandering through the finishing hall to look at you know anybody that did anything tumbling. like Tell me about your media. And you know obviously, like look at their examples. And hey, you've got a mirror polish on that part. And you're a Tumblr guy. Tell me, how do you do that?
00:33:36
Trevor Hirschi
And i got to talk to one of the guys at Walther Troll.
00:33:36
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:33:42
Trevor Hirschi
And, um, the guy was like, yeah, this is, this is our jam, man. Like we, we do a lot of mass finishing, finishing for people, but we also sell the equipment. We also sell the media.
00:33:53
Trevor Hirschi
So if you want to, like, if you already have a Tumblr, we can sell you the media. And I said, well, tell me about the process to get from what I'm doing here to there. And he kind of explained a little bit. And, um,
00:34:05
Trevor Hirschi
you know, he told me about the cost of porcelain, which is that fine finish for the polish stage. And it's like, oh, that's kind of expensive and you only sell it in big quantities. And I have, you know,
00:34:18
Trevor Hirschi
this much quantity that I need. And he was like, oh, well, if you're tiny, he's like, when you get back, send me an email and I'll go like take a dustpan off the floor and scoop up what we throw away and send it to you in a bag, you know? And so i literally, did I got ahold of him after IMPS. He did just that. He sent me like five, six pounds, you know, as ah as a sample that,
00:34:40
Trevor Hirschi
And, you know, and he was really, really helpful to like, hey, how's it going? Have you tried this? And I was like, well, I'm still, it's not great. He's like, oh, you need of this. You got to do this and try this out.
00:34:50
Trevor Hirschi
So he helped me with a couple of, you know, directional pointers to kind of get a better result. um and I still feel like there's improvement.
00:35:01
Trevor Hirschi
Like it's this weird rabbit hole, like Grimm's John.
00:35:03
Curt
Yeah.
00:35:04
Trevor Hirschi
If he's listening, like he needs to go. And there's, I'm sure there's other better ways to do this, but like, i don't know. It was super cool to me to like, okay, I got this titanium part that has no deburring. I pull it out of the machine.
00:35:16
Trevor Hirschi
I put it in this, you know, through this series and then it comes out, you know polished and stuff like that. So that was that was cool. Not that i don't try to like deburring the machine and make sure I don't have issues with that. Like one of one of my foundational motivational stories was um a guy that said, you know, if you really want to make this an art form,
00:35:42
Trevor Hirschi
make the machine do all of the work, you take it out, it's done.
00:35:47
Curt
Sure, yeah.
00:35:47
Trevor Hirschi
Nothing after, you know? and And so I was like, yeah, I agree with that because I just like the scalping of a ball end mill on titanium leaves this, you know, when it's good sharp tool,
00:36:00
Trevor Hirschi
good coolant, good cutting, you know, like you get this nice diffraction grading on those parts that is not achievable in that manner any other way. So it's it's got this unique, like I can only do this this way appeal to it that that resonates with me.
00:36:15
Trevor Hirschi
But the tumbling side, i now I have this like, okay, I want to have it polished.
00:36:17
Curt
That's cool.
00:36:21
Trevor Hirschi
I want to have it hand finished. I want to have it out of the machine finish. And it's kind of like um you know, different as an artist, like, okay, well, there's, you've got your pastels, you've got your paints, you've got chalk, you've got pen, you got pencil, you got all these different mediums for for creating something on a canvas for a piece of paper, right?
00:36:44
Trevor Hirschi
That's kind of what that became to me. And so I appreciate the out of the machine finish. I appreciate the hand finish. I appreciate a tumbler finish. I appreciate a buffer finish. all All these different methods to achieve different results is cool to me. And one of one of the things that I gained from working for Jeff, putting rings together was I found that I really enjoy, I really get into flow state when I'm at the bench. Like my wife will bring me lunch and a it'll be cold for two hours before I touch it because I'm just sanding and polishing and working by hand on some of these things because I'm
00:37:21
Trevor Hirschi
It's fun. i just have a rhythm with it and it's fun.
00:37:23
Curt
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:26
Trevor Hirschi
Tumbling is great. Handwork at the bench is great. um that That jewelry aspect of you know my background history is is played into that. And then the machinist side, all of these things, you know i just I love how they can work together and use them simultaneously sometimes.
00:37:43
Trevor Hirschi
So yeah.
00:37:45
Curt
Yeah, that's
Artistic Finishing Techniques
00:37:46
Curt
that's cool. And like, like you said, they all they all pair together and for all kinds of different ways and and they all have their own skill set and like they can all frustrate you equally as much.
00:37:46
Trevor Hirschi
fira
00:37:54
Curt
So yeah.
00:37:55
Trevor Hirschi
was What was interesting and and I guess kind of bothered me was to see some of these these parts that like come out of the machine. And they literally look like jewelry. I mean, go look any of these guys that make these like awesome motorcycle components.
00:38:09
Trevor Hirschi
and And the part looks like not gold because it's aluminum, but you know it looks like silver and it's just mirrors and rainbows and all this stuff. And it's like, it's so cool. And then they like go powder coat it.
00:38:21
Curt
yeah
00:38:21
Trevor Hirschi
Or they go, bead blast And it's like, what?
00:38:24
Curt
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:26
Trevor Hirschi
Now, not everything is going to be that way. But you know there's there's a use case for powder coating and for bead blasting and for nickel plating and for anodytes. All those, that they each have their thing, right? And I guess what's interesting to me as I navigate more into like creating like in an art sense is like, well, how do you use that one? And how do you use this one? And how can I make those contrast and look cool together and, you know, make it, make it really interesting.
00:38:58
Trevor Hirschi
So they all have a purpose. They all have a use. Let's figure out how to make them cool together.
00:39:07
Curt
I have a ah ah question. So like you said, full-time job, now you've transitioned to doing this. How did you get what you do out into the world? Like, I think that's probably one of the biggest questions I get from people is like, how did you just, how did you sell? How did you go from zero to one selling something?
00:39:24
Trevor Hirschi
It starts very small, very, very, very small. um i actually started the business that I have, like the got the business license registration through the state and, you know, all that government entity crap. 11 years ago, 2015 is when I like started with the name Titan Ring Designs and I want to go do this.
00:39:47
Trevor Hirschi
um I had then went and worked for Jeff McWhinney. So like I was doing nothing with this side thing other than designing things on, on you know, spare time for fun.
00:39:59
Trevor Hirschi
um But it was a couple years later that I like made a propeller. as a fidget spinner and, and it wasn't a fidget spinner.
00:40:07
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:40:10
Trevor Hirschi
It was a hand spinner or an EDC, you know, that before it became like this nerdy autism, uh, fidget craze of like,
00:40:13
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:40:22
Trevor Hirschi
you know you you stop in at 7-Eleven or you know any corner drugstore and you can pick up one of these things for two bucks or something.
00:40:30
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:40:31
Trevor Hirschi
there were There were these guys that like I saw, I think it was Custom Knife Factory, this Russian knife manufacturer that did high quality knives. And they made this one called the Pepyaka.
00:40:42
Trevor Hirschi
And I was like, hey, it's got some surfacing in it. It's got like some copper and titanium and brass. And it just looked like industrial design, but like this EDC thing, you know, throw it in my pocket with my keys, my my phone, my, you know, whatever else, your your EDC, your knife, whatever you're in EDC.
00:41:02
Trevor Hirschi
um And I was like, that's kind of cool. And they wanted, i don't know, a couple hundred bucks for it. And I just thought, I don't want to spend that. I want to make something ah that's my own, right?
00:41:11
Curt
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:41:15
Trevor Hirschi
And and I have this ah World War II wooden UAV prop on my wall from great grandpa or whatever. And I was like, there we go. That is the perfect spinner. Like that's all they do is they spin, you know? And so I i went and drew one up, modeled one up in SolidWorks and, you know, no no care or concern for the airfoil.
00:41:38
Trevor Hirschi
It was just... make it look like a propeller, right? Put it hand size. And I made one for myself and I had it on like some EDC forum or something like that.
00:41:49
Trevor Hirschi
And people just went nuts.
00:41:50
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:41:51
Trevor Hirschi
Where can I get one of those? I was like, well, like I guess I would sell them, you know? And so I made one and put it on my Etsy page.
00:42:04
Trevor Hirschi
And like it sold. And then I talked to Chris Bathgate and he was like, oh, you got to go, go do a drop, right? Go, go do a drop release thing and go put it into this spinner group on Facebook.
00:42:15
Trevor Hirschi
And I had like, i don't know, a dozen sales like overnight. And it was just like,
00:42:20
Curt
Cool.
00:42:22
Trevor Hirschi
Whoa, now I've got to go do all this work and, you know, put them together and and all that stuff. And I i spent all of 2017 every like spare minute after work doing that.
00:42:33
Trevor Hirschi
um made Made some good money for, you know, helping with shop growth and stuff. um, and eating time, but it was just a very small, like, I think I had sold one ring to a friend prior to that. You know, i i started, i still don't know what my, my business name is applicable to what I do anymore. Cause I, I do rings, well but you know, I'm more of just design. So I need to change my name around eventually. But, um,
00:43:02
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, I had sold like one ring and then all of a sudden, boom, I had sold, you know, a couple dozen of these these propeller things and they they were just taken off, you know, I'm just coming.
00:43:15
Trevor Hirschi
um But it was just crazy. So how did how does it start for someone? I don't know, because it's different for everybody. Like. listening to people's stories for how they start.
00:43:27
Trevor Hirschi
You know, I, I've talked to John Grimm or, you know, heard John Grimm's most story and how he started and, and John Saunders and Tyson lamb and Jeff Sapp and Jeff McWinney and Josh Ogel, you know, all these guys that I've come to know and talk to over the years, they all have like this different path, right. That they, they go down to start things. And,
00:43:49
Trevor Hirschi
It is. It's just different for every person. It's interesting to me as I go look back on that. i's like I started you know a company name as making titanium rings. and The first thing I really ever sell is a titanium
Persistence in Creativity and Business
00:44:02
Trevor Hirschi
propeller. It has nothing to do with with what I was directed at, really.
00:44:07
Trevor Hirschi
um but Then on top of that, you know I think it's just a persistence in in making things. Chris Bathgate told me it's like ah pumping up a beach ball with a hole in it.
00:44:21
Trevor Hirschi
If you don't keep pumping, it's going to go flat and people are going to forget about you and you're going to move on and you're going to be dead and you're toast, right? And so it's like, yeah, you got to be consistent and just keep putting things out, right? um Just be working on things.
00:44:37
Trevor Hirschi
And that's kind of where I'm at now is just like, I have solid works libraries of hundreds, thousands of things that have, you know, went from here to into the computer.
00:44:49
Trevor Hirschi
They haven't gone from the computer to here yet. And it's like, okay, let's pick from those, you know, to rearrange, redo some of the things and and go at it.
00:44:53
Curt
Right.
00:44:59
Trevor Hirschi
But I think how do people start is just, I wanted to do something with it. might I would say my origin to how I even got into this was um Matt Tremblay from Rogue Design.
00:45:17
Trevor Hirschi
He was chief designer for Red Camera Company. He worked for Oakley. I think he worked for Nike, too. Cool cool guy as a designer. And he had this Rogue Design was kind of his off, um you know hobby business, too, and and making this kind of stuff.
00:45:36
Trevor Hirschi
And i think at the time that i was I was getting married, I had found this one ring. And I was just like, that is so cool. Because here he was, five-axis machine, this titanium, multi-piece assembly, micro-assembly into a ring, right?
00:45:51
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:45:52
Trevor Hirschi
And it's like, there we go. I don't want to go buy a carbide ring for $10 off Amazon while my wife gets this $4,000 or $5,000 gold diamond bling, right? Like it's boring.
00:46:05
Trevor Hirschi
can do better than that. And when I saw what he offered and I was poor, but I had access to the equipment, I reached out to him and I said, Hey, can I, can I do it do you care if I copy this?
00:46:19
Trevor Hirschi
And he was like, yeah, you know, go, go ahead, knock yourself out. You can't sell it. You can't give it away. you can only make one for yourself, you know? And
00:46:28
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:46:29
Trevor Hirschi
I said, yeah, that's it's for me. I want this for ah a wedding ring, but I also want it for a learning experience and and for fun. And so i had i had a lot of Mastercam experience and zero modeling experience, just where I was at in in industry at that time.
00:46:49
Trevor Hirschi
And learning to model something that was that complex was the real challenge for me. The machining side, i mean, i've I've grown and gained a lot since then, but I would say the biggest leap was how to how to use a CAD software to actually design something.
00:47:10
Trevor Hirschi
And he he pushed me You know, not like, hey, yeah, you should go do this. But just in what it was and what I wanted, it pushed me so much to chase that.
00:47:23
Trevor Hirschi
And after I did it, I learned a ton through doing it. It was a great experience. But then I went, I like this. This is fun. And he told me, you know you're you're never going to make any money with it. Stay with your day job. Right. Don't don't quit your day job. Yeah.
00:47:39
Trevor Hirschi
Because he didn't. he He stayed with Red and did this on the side. But it was that, like, I want to try. I want to do it on my own. And I know if I'm going to do it on my own, now I need to, you know, go a different direction and um try my own thing. and And I liked that. I had fun with the rings. And so that was just like, well, I i would wear a ring. Like, I could wait make another one and and and do another one, right? and No big deal. So then it was, how do I come up with my own design? And I just...
00:48:10
Trevor Hirschi
I don't know, the the where creativity comes from is like, I knew i couldn't take his designs, right? Like that was all just for experience of ah trying to better and improve myself, like in a direction.
00:48:24
Trevor Hirschi
um Any artist will do that, right? If you're a fan of Picasso and that's all you love, like you study his work and you kind of mimic that, right? And then eventually you kind of find your own voice, your own style and you go off, you know, on a different direction kind of.
00:48:39
Trevor Hirschi
And that's kind of how it was for me. It was like, okay, I have this appreciation for what he does. And I like that. Let's try to um now reroute that into into me and how I would do that, how I perceive things and how I do it.
00:48:53
Trevor Hirschi
And it was it was a really big shaping thing for me to do that. So when when someone asks, how do you start selling things and where do you get that?
00:48:59
Curt
Yeah.
00:49:04
Trevor Hirschi
It's like, Just go do something, no matter how small it is, and go share it. If you're passionate about it, if it's if it's um if it's good enough, then it will grow, right? Like you you plant a seed and it doesn't become a tree overnight. You have to water it and take care of it and make sure it get sunlight and proper nutrients in the soil stuff. And then it takes off and becomes a you know big tree with good, strong roots.
00:49:31
Trevor Hirschi
um
00:49:31
Curt
Well, I think you hit.
00:49:32
Trevor Hirschi
I would say that's what's going
00:49:35
Curt
Oh, sorry. I think you hit it right there where you said if you're passionate about it, I know me and Jamie have talked about that a ton. It's like if you if I find anybody, I don't care what you're doing, but if you love what you're doing, you're probably going to get good at it just because you're just you're obsessive about it and it's hard not to get good at it.
00:49:45
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:49:51
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. I don't remember who it was that said, you know, what, what your, your thoughts, your desires shape your thoughts, your thoughts shape your actions, your actions shape your character, you know, and and what you do and all that stuff.
00:50:05
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:50:06
Trevor Hirschi
so So take all that. And I can't remember exactly how I heard it, but that's exactly what it was, right? Like, we each have these personal interests and like, I see people that do amazing things and I've, I've ah watched other interests that I have and I go, Holy cow, look at how awesome they are at doing that thing.
00:50:27
Trevor Hirschi
But guess what? It took to get, there it took hundreds, thousands of hours to get from interest to seasoned expert, right? It's not just a passing whimsical,
00:50:39
Trevor Hirschi
I want to do this and I'll go try it out and and be good at it all of a sudden. No, it takes a lot of work. And so I have to be careful when I go, Oh, I want to do that. to this. I could, I could go do knives. I, but I don't really have a passion and interest in like doing that sort of thing. Like I'm comfortable with my Leatherman knife.
00:50:59
Trevor Hirschi
You know, I, I, I've almost bought Grimms Moe's Norseman several times. And like each time it's like, Oh, my money is just gone. And I can't now. And it's like, I want one.
00:51:10
Trevor Hirschi
But like I'm I lose my Leatherman like, OK, go spend another 150 bucks and buy new one. I'm not going to be sad. Not really.
00:51:19
Curt
Sure.
00:51:19
Trevor Hirschi
I lost a Norseman. I'm going to beat myself up.
00:51:24
Curt
Yeah.
00:51:24
Trevor Hirschi
he's He's got this this ah you know level of like understanding and heat treating and sharpening that I know is not a a huge hurdle to overcome, but I just don't know it. It's not something that I'm good at and comfortable with.
00:51:38
Trevor Hirschi
And it's just not me, I guess. I had students that would tell me all the time, oh you should go make this thing, man. It'd be super cool if you did that because you're good at this. It's like, I...
00:51:50
Trevor Hirschi
I don't have any interest in that though.
00:51:50
Curt
yeah
00:51:51
Trevor Hirschi
It does not appeal to me at all.
00:51:52
jamie peacock
know
00:51:53
Trevor Hirschi
Sounds like you should though.
00:51:54
jamie peacock
If you're not passion you're not passionate about it you're not going to give it all your attention.
00:52:00
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:52:01
jamie peacock
No.
00:52:03
Curt
exactly
00:52:04
jamie peacock
Before we continue, let me quickly do the Patreon read because we're like nearly an hour in. And I should have done that one a while ago. We have Patreon and they make the wheels on the train go round and round.
00:52:17
jamie peacock
Got a new Patreon this week, Eric. I'm not going to drop your second name there. Don't want to cause trouble. But yeah, thank you for joining the Patreon. And then all the Patreons get access to the After Show where...
00:52:27
Trevor Hirschi
Thank you.
00:52:28
jamie peacock
we discussed it last week we discussed deranged things it was great uh actually get shouted at my wife for that one which is curious um but yeah patrons get access to after show they also uh get access to the q and a if we ever do one and i get to say they're patreon they also get the name on the wall of shame not shame of fame uh which needs to be updated but yeah the top tier patrons all get a shout out every week and that consists well that lists is as follows.
Acknowledgment of Supporters
00:52:55
jamie peacock
Jade from Bedrock 20, Luke from Fabtastic, AJ from Subtract Manufacturing and 39 other countries companies, Jason S, EJ from Nocturnal Welding, the Aussie Machinist, Christian Olsen, Charles Watt, Kyle from Cursed Machine, Matt from Off-World Gear, Alex B, John from 2SM Performance and Engine Tricks, and Matt from Modern Fuel.
00:53:12
jamie peacock
Thank you for making the wheels on the train go round and round. a Looks like I'm going to be at IMTS with a cardboard cutout of Kurt, but more to come on that next week.
00:53:22
Curt
Sorry, folks.
00:53:22
jamie peacock
Back to the podcast. um Yeah, so... Wait, hang on. I've got to go back over and up because professionalism. Okay, cool. So you... Well, I don't I can't remember. for Yes, you do do tabbing.
00:53:38
jamie peacock
I have questions about tabbing on your fourth axis because you're making the tiny little kinematic ball things, which are super cool, um and you're doing those things in one-op now on the...
00:53:50
jamie peacock
on the fourth, the the little join-y things.
00:53:54
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, tabs are great. and And I always either overestimate them or underestimate them. There's no estimating them properly. They're either either too way too thick or way too thin. The part's gone or the part needs, you know, ah a lot of leverage to remove or a few more passes and...
00:54:06
jamie peacock
want to get off.
00:54:13
Trevor Hirschi
um Yeah, it's it's great, though. It works so so well. um Now, with titanium, it does make almost a necessary additional op to remove that tab.
00:54:25
Trevor Hirschi
um Because,
00:54:26
jamie peacock
That's what I was about to ask you.
00:54:27
Trevor Hirschi
yeah, with with brass, with aluminum, like, man, I can just snip it off, pull it off with some pliers, and then a file. And you know I'm careful enough from the from the jewelry experience where i can I can finish that by hand and do a good job and make that OK.
00:54:43
Trevor Hirschi
um Now, if if it comes to like, you know, none none of what I do passes a a QC department where they've got CMMs in a temperature controlled climate environment and all that that, you know, goes to NASA and Boeing and things like that.
00:55:00
Trevor Hirschi
um ah It's it's does it function? Does it measure what I want it to measure if it needs to? And does it look good? And so I have kind of some different different requirements there, but yeah, it does come to, you know, those kinds of requirements for, okay, how do you finish that off now?
00:55:19
Trevor Hirschi
Does it require setting up and, you know, relocating on it and finishing that, but it works really well. I've done some things that, you know, would be otherwise difficult to achieve without tabs.
00:55:31
Trevor Hirschi
um Yeah.
00:55:33
jamie peacock
fourth axis tabbing is like all tabbing in general is flippin magic
00:55:39
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:55:40
jamie peacock
I did I did my first job with table tabbing. I left the backside of the part existing or like a stock and then just machined it away and the part went bloop finished.
00:55:53
jamie peacock
It's super, super powerful when you got to do funny shaped parts and like your parts are not exactly squares with holes.
00:55:59
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, yeah they they become difficult to hold on to for sure. so And they have some more tricks up the sleeve that make it you know when it really must be i carefully done.
00:56:03
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:56:07
jamie peacock
A little easier.
00:56:11
Trevor Hirschi
there's There's some other things that can be done to to do that too. but
00:56:15
jamie peacock
Okay. Yeah.
00:56:16
Curt
Well, that's a perfect segue into, I think you're the first person that I heard about anyways using butth bismuth for workholding,
Innovative Workholding Solutions
00:56:25
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:56:25
Curt
which I thought was a slick way, especially for like crazy tiny parts that you just can't put in a soft jaw.
00:56:31
Curt
Like I thought that was a super, super cool method.
00:56:34
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, it's it's a very unique setup, and I had never heard anything about it until I worked for Jeff McWinney. And his parts kind of necessitated its use um because he he makes these rings at scale, and and not like he manufactures them, mass manufactures them but just...
00:56:43
Curt
Okay.
00:56:57
Trevor Hirschi
I guess at scale, literally, he has to scale the same ring design to fit ah various finger sizes, right? you got all these different ring sizes and and the permutations that exist when you do that in in ah an assembly.
00:57:13
Trevor Hirschi
And now I have to go machine each one of those pieces in that assembly. I mean, it's it's crazy. It's crazy how many permutations and different pieces exist.
00:57:26
Trevor Hirschi
in what he offers. And so it's, it's this really cool way to hold things.
00:57:29
Curt
Oh, yeah.
00:57:33
Trevor Hirschi
It's, it's liquid soft jaws is what it is.
00:57:35
Curt
Totally.
00:57:37
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
00:57:37
jamie peacock
And then are you probing the parts to find it in the bismuth or you machining half parts somehow locating it filling it with bismuth and then machining a hat off or something?
00:57:37
Curt
I'm actually looking at the... ah
00:57:49
Trevor Hirschi
Yes, exactly. So you do, you do a kind of a first stop.
00:57:51
jamie peacock
Okay.
00:57:53
Trevor Hirschi
So, um, now with, with a multi-axis, you could do, um, you could do some pretty creative things with, with doing this with multi-axis.
00:57:53
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:58:03
Trevor Hirschi
And I haven't seen anybody do it yet.
00:58:04
jamie peacock
Yeah.
00:58:04
Trevor Hirschi
And if I ever get into, the real need or, you know, ah fit an actual fifth access that I could do it, then it could open some doors to me. But, um, Yes, so I hold on to part in kind of a three axis setup and you know do do everything from from the top side. and then there has to be some sort of way to locate.
00:58:28
Trevor Hirschi
For when you flip it over to do the other side, because that's where the bismuth comes in the locating side. So the fixture is it's basically a cavity, right? It's a bowl and your your cavity fixture has your locating components. So I use pins, sometimes screws to bolt through if I can.
00:58:48
Trevor Hirschi
um But more often than not, it's a press fit, pin into a fixture with a very, you know, very snug slip fit onto the mating part that goes into the fixture. And then you...
00:59:03
Trevor Hirschi
um and then you You need to hold it down. So I usually clamp it so it doesn't move because bismuth, you you heat it up, you pour in the molten bismuth, it forms around it. That's why I call it liquid soft jaws. So it forms around it as a perfect 3D soft jaw.
00:59:21
Trevor Hirschi
And then... You wait for it cool and harden, remove your clamp, and you should already have your offsets and your locating, you know, figured out previous to that because you don't want to take it apart. And then you go and machine it.
00:59:36
Trevor Hirschi
that's that You laugh, but youve I've done that. Oh, crap.
00:59:40
Curt
Mm-hmm.
00:59:40
Trevor Hirschi
I forgot that i forgot to dial in the pins. ah Well, it's not too much of an issue. you just, you know, go go pull it off, go melt it back down. But yeah, when you machine off the other side, it just looks like
00:59:50
jamie peacock
Okay, so when you're done, when you're done, you just heat it up and flows out.
00:59:54
Trevor Hirschi
yeah Yeah, I throw it back in the pot that I melted in and and it's very, i think it has a very dense molecular composition and it just is heavy.
00:59:55
jamie peacock
Okay.
01:00:04
jamie peacock
Yeah, it's a very dense metal. So the titanium of floats on us. Yeah.
01:00:08
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, so titanium floats, aluminum floats, steel floats, stainless floats, it's all great.
01:00:09
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:00:13
Trevor Hirschi
I haven't been able to do it with plastic, unfortunately, because most of them will melt. But there are people that do things with ah um like hot glue and um resin.
01:00:27
Trevor Hirschi
And I haven't tried this one, but but the resin version is, you know, especially a UV curing resin. I can't remember who, maybe it was...
01:00:33
jamie peacock
yeah that's aj did it with his carabiners
01:00:38
Trevor Hirschi
Okay, yeah, I think Ben...
01:00:39
jamie peacock
So AJ was machining the carabiners side one, popping them into a fixture, gluing them in and then UV curing it then machining them off and then dissolving the glue in acetone or the epoxy in acetone.
01:00:50
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, yeah, yeah. um I think Ben from Relux did something with it once too that I remember.
01:00:53
jamie peacock
Yeah, he's done some weird stuff.
01:00:57
Trevor Hirschi
i can't remember.
01:00:58
jamie peacock
Okay.
01:00:58
Trevor Hirschi
have to ask him. But anyways, yeah, a similar concept.
01:01:00
jamie peacock
Yeah, he's been quiet lately.
01:01:02
Trevor Hirschi
He has been, yeah. Maybe family.
01:01:04
jamie peacock
Yeah, he's moving apparently.
01:01:06
Trevor Hirschi
Oh.
01:01:08
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:01:08
Trevor Hirschi
But yeah, anyways, it's it's a super cool method.
01:01:08
Curt
Yeah, he closed. Yeah.
01:01:11
Trevor Hirschi
um In this part that I'm working on right now, I actually used it. quite extensively and and it is time consuming. Like that's another, that's another component to it that it is not going to be the solution for, for most machinists because most machinists operate in a time is of the essence and we need to get this runtime down, right?
01:01:35
Trevor Hirschi
Like I, I I'm screwing off. So it doesn't really matter if I optimize my program and save five minutes or five hours because like,
01:01:42
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:01:45
Trevor Hirschi
I don't know, I still got dance recital to go to at the middle of the day. And like, it doesn't matter to me, right? But um it it does add a considerable amount of time because the fixturing is something to make.
01:02:00
Trevor Hirschi
And you got to make it right. You got to make it really well. The location needs to be dead perfect, basically. um And then you've got to you gotta to go wait for the bismuth to heat up.
01:02:11
Trevor Hirschi
And in the meantime, you don't go just pour liquid, you know, 280, 300 degrees bismuth into, you know, your 60, 70 degree environment of your shop on the in your fixture, right? So you preheat the fixture, right?
01:02:30
Trevor Hirschi
in the meantime. So that's what I do. is like I set my timer for a couple minutes. It heats up. I go turn on the the stove top, let it heat up. I go back over to the machine and the fixture and I preheat it.
01:02:41
Trevor Hirschi
Then I come back, I dump it in and And then you got wait for it to cool and harden. And that's not an instantaneous process either. and And if you cool it too quickly, you can have, I don't know, this could be another rabbit hole.
01:02:50
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:02:56
Trevor Hirschi
Like if somebody was like super nerding out on it, that they could go down. Yeah. like we We played with this. we We played with, when I worked for McWinney, like we played with how can we like optimize this process? like What would Apple do if they had to use this you know to make a million, whatchamacallit, eye thingies, something like that? like they would They would have this. and And I thought about the engineering side of like, okay, I could do this, and I could do this, and I could try all these different approaches to it.
01:03:24
Trevor Hirschi
like i have a a Venturi air gun, if you've ever seen those. So it just runs compressed air through it. And it's got a port on the side that the warm air comes out, but it's got your nozzle and it's it's got lock line. and And I'll go turn that on and I'll go put that on the part and help cool it down. I don't know how much faster it runs, but I felt like it it did cool it down a little bit quicker to like be able to get me back to, you know, not sitting and waiting for half an hour.
01:03:55
Trevor Hirschi
um for this part to cool. That's the other thing. Like the the more bismuth you use and having this fixture cavity thing, the more mass there is, the more thermal mass it's going to have.
01:04:04
jamie peacock
the more thermal mass.
01:04:07
Trevor Hirschi
And the longer you're going to have to wait for it to cool. Right. So for me, it's like, okay, I know at 30 minutes I can go, you know, touch it and it's not going to burn me. um And if I can cool it, you know, quicken that up to where it's 15 minutes and then I can go hit go,
01:04:22
Trevor Hirschi
Cool, then it it saves me a little bit of time. But because of those constraints, like it does not make a production environment. like these These parts that I'm making, I made 25 of them.
01:04:34
Trevor Hirschi
And you talk about an hour runtime plus another half an hour of wait time. So how much does that compound your process?
01:04:40
jamie peacock
Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:43
Trevor Hirschi
you know it it really It really adds to the mix quite a bit. So it works great in some cases.
01:04:49
jamie peacock
and
01:04:51
Trevor Hirschi
ah There are some examples, like I have a thing that I made. I don't know if it's sitting on my desk here, but I made something that had zero flat parts on it, zero flat surfaces. It was 100% all organic shapes.
01:05:07
Trevor Hirschi
And I think I may have scrapped the first one because it, in the first op, not too big of a problem, right? Because you're held with a vice. Second op in the bismuth seems like it's going be great, but it's I mean, picture picture like clamping a water, you know, try to hold a watermelon seed when it's wet, right?
01:05:27
Trevor Hirschi
You just, it goes flying everywhere.
01:05:28
Curt
Hmm. Hmm.
01:05:29
Trevor Hirschi
So it's it's kind of has that same um application to it when you're holding on to some of these really crazy, unique 3D organic surface parts.
01:05:29
Curt
Hmm.
01:05:39
Trevor Hirschi
they become challenged to hold on to in bismuth. And so there's there' are some other things that I've done to try to help you know minimize the parts come flying off. Because as soon as you machine off the the top piece that it was held on to, you're free floating and like you are up to that bismuth. you know And if it is truly like a watermelon seed, then it can be kind of scary.
01:06:03
Trevor Hirschi
So I've had sometimes where it becomes, okay, I'm going to make a ah handful of these because I don't know if going to get one good one or all of them are good, but I want at least one.
01:06:15
Trevor Hirschi
So, yeah.
01:06:16
Curt
Yeah, fair.
01:06:16
jamie peacock
Yeah, the thermal curve expansion coefficient on bismuth is a quite a lot higher than titanium.
01:06:26
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, and and it's an alloy too.
01:06:26
jamie peacock
So as it cools, twing, can, which, yeah.
01:06:29
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, yeah. there's it's also an alloy element an alloy um ingot that you start with too so when when i first was using it with mcwinney he had one that was um it was like a super low melt temperature it was 160 degrees but to do that it was bismuth tin lead and cadmium and i uh you know you
01:06:35
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:06:52
jamie peacock
maximum health.
01:06:52
Curt
Yeah.
01:06:56
Trevor Hirschi
we had it in the other room on the burner. if you want pay attention, you start getting some fumey smells and it's like, oh, this is great. Cause I'm breathing in, you know, cadmium fumes. This is wonderful. And so I was like, okay, well get me some PPE. I want a mask, you know? And so we, we, we did that and got, got better with that. But eventually I was like,
01:07:18
Trevor Hirschi
lead is bad. Cadmium is bad. ah Like, I don't, I don't want to deal with this. And so I did some research and found a, another um alloy that's just bismuth and tin. So they're, you know, there's, are they still heavy metals? I guess bismuth technically is a heavy metal, I think.
01:07:38
Trevor Hirschi
So whatever, but it's, I feel safer, you know, it's more inert than cadmium in my shop and lead.
01:07:44
jamie peacock
It's less active than cadmium and lead.
01:07:46
Trevor Hirschi
It's, it's, Yeah. Yeah. I care less. and And now in my shop space, it's literally like three feet away. And like, I'm, I have the heat gun in my hand and you know, my mind is there and I'm heating my fixture and it's like, it done? Nope. It's not heated up. Okay. Keep going. Keep going. You know, and I check and oh, yep. Okay. It's melted now. Turn off this and go turn off the burner. Boom. Done. So I've, I've got really streamlined with it and and pretty good at it now, but, um, yeah, it can be scary, you know? And then like, uh,
01:08:19
Trevor Hirschi
it's also liquid metal. So, and it's hot. So you gotta be, you know, really careful. And I'm, because I'm at home, like people will think I'm weird,
Utilizing Family Heirlooms in Machining
01:08:28
Trevor Hirschi
but I'm barefoot most of the time here at home. And like, I just go out to my shop and I machine in my shop and I'm barefoot.
01:08:36
Trevor Hirschi
I'm outside in the backyard. I'm grounded. Like I love this kind of environment, but like, I have to remember, Oh, I've got liquid molten metal. Like, you know, I've got this pan my hand.
01:08:45
jamie peacock
I'm sure you remember as soon as it hits your foot.
01:08:47
Trevor Hirschi
And, Yes. You know, I've got gloves on and I've got glasses on and but I don't have shoes on and go very slowly over to the pot and dump it back in. You know, so it's, yeah. there the OSHA would not like me, but, oh, sorry.
01:09:03
Curt
whose Whose notifications are killing us here?
01:09:07
Trevor Hirschi
Those are mine. have to go kill
01:09:08
Curt
Oh, sorry. Sorry, listeners. We don't mean to blow your eardrums out.
01:09:13
jamie peacock
Yeah, I know, rip headphone users.
01:09:13
Trevor Hirschi
them.
01:09:15
jamie peacock
um
01:09:15
Curt
Mm-hmm.
01:09:17
jamie peacock
I saw on your Instagram, you got there was a video with like a tiny little collet block. Are those jeweler's lathe collets?
01:09:26
Trevor Hirschi
say that again, a call a call block?
01:09:27
jamie peacock
A collet block. You're making something, you're putting little parts into a collet block. Like a little square block.
01:09:33
Trevor Hirschi
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
01:09:34
jamie peacock
Are those jeweler's lathe collets?
01:09:35
Trevor Hirschi
um Yes, yes, they are. So I have...
01:09:38
jamie peacock
Okay, I have a set. I need to make a block for it.
01:09:41
Trevor Hirschi
Oh, yeah. the The callets are not cheap, especially if you've got like 11 callets, which I have the 11 blades.
01:09:50
Curt
Mm-hmm.
01:09:51
Trevor Hirschi
And oh my gosh, if you go look on their website at what callets cost, you'll... I mean, go buy a different machine because they are not cheap. But yeah, I have 11 lathes.
01:10:00
jamie peacock
I've got...
01:10:00
Curt
ah
01:10:00
jamie peacock
Yeah. Yeah, I've got...
01:10:03
Trevor Hirschi
bought a collet block at one point because I needed to do something really small. And, you know, holding on to eighth inch or quarter inch diameter material was like, it's just just made sense.
01:10:16
Trevor Hirschi
So yeah, they're great.
01:10:17
jamie peacock
of ghost
01:10:18
Trevor Hirschi
I'm using that right now.
01:10:19
jamie peacock
I've got two jewelers late. So I have a whole shitload of collets. I inherited them from my uncle who inherited them from his grandfather who inherited them from his grandfather. So yeah, they're family heirlooms, but they're gonna end up in the workshop.
01:10:33
jamie peacock
Because I like using heirlooms.
01:10:33
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
01:10:34
Curt
That's awesome.
01:10:35
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah. very they' great
01:10:38
jamie peacock
yeah I was just curious.
01:10:38
Curt
right. Well, we're, uh, say we're starting to run a little long.
01:10:39
jamie peacock
that ah Kurt had one more last question.
01:10:42
Curt
Oh, uh, is there a one question?
01:10:43
jamie peacock
Kurt, your last question that you put in the thing.
01:10:47
Curt
Uh, Oh, okay. Well, we'll go with one more and then we'll, we'll do the Google box. Cause we're already, or uh,
01:10:51
jamie peacock
This is going to be another hour of podcast because this is a topic that I know all three of us. well I know Kurtz and I have discussed.
01:10:59
Curt
I, uh, I was just doom scrolling your Instagram as I do most evenings. Cause I secretly stalk you. Um, but there's a picture where you have your hand out and you have a, like a knife and a ring. Uh, I think one of the Quacho rings, which you actually sent me. I very much appreciate that. That replaced my wedding ring, by the way.
01:11:15
Curt
Um,
01:11:15
Trevor Hirschi
Awesome. Thank
01:11:16
Curt
Yeah, I love it. it's And people are always like, is that machined? And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, no, guy know, he machined it And they're like, like and so they're always, I give it to them. They're like, it's really light. I'm like, it's all titanium. And they're like, does it come apart? I'm like, yes, it does. And everyone's blown away by it. So I appreciate it. And yeah, it's a super cool design.
01:11:33
Curt
um Regardless of this, on the bottom of that image, you have a big chunky flashlight and I absolutely love it. Did you buy that or did you make that?
01:11:43
Trevor Hirschi
Did it have like a big neural pattern on it?
01:11:44
Curt
can't.
01:11:46
Curt
It's got like two heads on it, like the flashlight head. And then it kind of looks like a Freelux light, just like a like a ah brutal, a brutalist version of it.
01:11:53
Trevor Hirschi
Oh.
01:11:55
Curt
It's, it's really cool.
01:11:56
Trevor Hirschi
So that is um
01:11:57
Curt
I like it.
Design Inspirations and Collaborations
01:12:02
Trevor Hirschi
a company called Coolfall. And
01:12:05
Curt
Okay. I was, I was looking at them. I didn't know if they sold that or not. Okay.
01:12:08
Trevor Hirschi
what's his name? Dave? I'm blanking on because I'm so great with it.
01:12:12
Curt
Oh, SPY flashlights. Okay, I missed that. Okay, that's what I was looking at. I gotcha.
01:12:16
Trevor Hirschi
despite The Spy. Yeah. The Spy 007. I had two of those. i I bought one. They are super cool. Because here's a guy that's... he's an old retired electronics engineer, electrical engineer or something.
01:12:31
Trevor Hirschi
And he's got, you know, a son that does machining or something like that. So he's, he's one that I found from like, um, early history where I was obsessed with, you know, again, lights and flashlights and, um,
01:12:35
Curt
Mm-hmm.
01:12:45
Trevor Hirschi
it was this candle power forums group that I had been on a long time ago that I found, you know, a bunch of these guys that kind of started up the same way, but he makes these crazy good, cool flashlights that, I mean, it's, it's a very small manufacturing, you know, set up with, with him. Like they, they do not mass produce these. They are expensive. They are super cool. I would say it's like having a Rolls Royce of a flashlight.
01:13:16
Curt
Sure. Yeah, it definitely looks the part. i I thought it was cool. i was like, I wonder if you're making that. So if you were, I was like, I need to bend your ear. But yeah.
01:13:22
Trevor Hirschi
It was, I go and make things. It's always like, Oh, I, could I do, you know, this thing better? Like he has, he's just knocked it out of the park.
01:13:33
Trevor Hirschi
They're just super cool. Um, not to, not to put anything against any of the other awesome manufacturer, you know, flashlight manufacturers, I really love Okluma's, Jeff Sapp's work and want to get one of those, need one of those.
01:13:35
Curt
They are.
01:13:44
Curt
Hmm.
01:13:47
Trevor Hirschi
But it's just this different different tool, right? like it's It's like infinitely programmable, customizable and in options with it. And it's just, they're super cool.
01:13:59
Trevor Hirschi
So I have a flashlight design that was kind of revolved around one of the spy's flashlights, but with more of like an MB&F watch or Herbert Geneva watch twist to it.
01:14:13
Trevor Hirschi
So wouldd be really cool with this like interesting um artistic portrayal of a flashlight.
01:14:15
Curt
Mm-hmm.
01:14:21
Trevor Hirschi
But at the end of the day, I'm not an electronics guy. I don't have any electrical engineering background. I don't have the resources to put into doing that. So I kind of always dead end those projects because I just go, I don't have, i don't have anybody to help me with a driver that needs to be custom to, you know, make this cool thing. So it's, it's, it's out of my wheelhouse currently, I guess. So.
01:14:48
Curt
Well, the nice thing is every year that goes on, ah it just ah gets more and more accessible. And yeah, if you want Electronic Stork to partner up with, I would be all over that because that sounds fun as hell.
01:15:00
Trevor Hirschi
Well, maybe, maybe we'll have to do that. Cause I do have, say I like them. They're, they're pretty neat.
01:15:05
Curt
Yeah, there's... Super cool. By the way, folks, we'll link everything we're talking about in the show and notes that ah like that Jeff McWinney designs. I checked out his rings. I see i see how you like riffed on his designs. He's got some cool stuff.
01:15:17
Curt
The spy flashlights, all it so cool.
01:15:17
Trevor Hirschi
Well, what, Yeah, one of one of mine is, i you know, part of how I have what I have is we work the deal because I came up with a design that, you know, he wouldn't have had if it weren't for me and I wouldn't have had if it weren't for him.
01:15:30
Trevor Hirschi
But I was this huge contributing, you know, idea to this. I i went and made this ring. um He calls it the CP series. ah
01:15:40
Curt
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:15:41
Trevor Hirschi
That was my ring. I came up with that birth child Apple Watch band, actually, that was kind of led to my creation of that.
01:15:43
Curt
Cool. Oh, cool. Oh.
01:15:50
Trevor Hirschi
And really all all butterfly clasps of of watch bracelets kind of were the backbone of that. But um he was like, yeah, yeah, cool, whatever, you know, go go go do it on your own time, you know, and I did.
01:16:03
Trevor Hirschi
I went and made it on my own time and I handed it to him on a Monday and he was just like, dude, this is cool. This works really well. I like this, you know, cause he had, he had a box of, he had great tons of great ideas, but he had this box of like, you know, I called it the graveyard of like where an idea went to die.
01:16:11
Curt
That's awesome. Yeah.
01:16:20
Trevor Hirschi
Cause he just, I didn't like this. I didn't like that. And so when I had this one idea, you know, and he was like, yeah, sure, whatever, knock yourself out. And then, you know, lo and behold, it becomes this great thing. And, and, and now he's sold tons of them. So I'm happy that they're out in the world at a, at a greater scale than, than what I was capable of at the time.
01:16:38
Trevor Hirschi
So
01:16:38
Curt
And at what I would say, a pretty reasonable cost. Like, go check them out, folks. If you're into mechanical complexities, because there's hinges and mechanisms and moving, and they're like, those CP series are like $2,000.
01:16:49
Curt
two thousand bucks Like, they're not heinous. I mean, expensive, but in ring land, like you said, if you're buying a fancy engagement ring, you know, for your wife, $2,000 is not exactly crazy in that world for, you know, your own ring.
01:17:00
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah.
01:17:01
Curt
So, yeah, super cool.
01:17:02
Trevor Hirschi
and And it's one of the best people I know. Like you're supporting, you know, not not billions at Apple. You're supporting a guy that, you know, a humble, awesome guy.
01:17:10
Curt
Sure.
01:17:12
Trevor Hirschi
So...
01:17:13
Curt
That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, folks, should we do ah should we do the Google boxes?
01:17:19
jamie peacock
Yes, what is in your guys' Google boxes? think let's make Kurt go first.
01:17:23
Curt
You want to leave the charge? Oh, am I leaving the charge?
01:17:25
jamie peacock
Or you're leading the charge this week.
01:17:27
Trevor Hirschi
Go for it.
01:17:27
Curt
Do you guys have time to think? Okay.
01:17:29
jamie peacock
I don't really need to thank much for that.
01:17:29
Curt
I was just riffing on last week. um I spoke about trying to find a comparable alternative to Procreate because I don't have Apple products. So it's a drawing app. ah Clip Studio, you got to pay for it. But it seems it's my favorite thus far. It's got all the power I want to do. And you can run it on any device, ah Apple devices, Windows devices, not Linux, but everything. So I've been looking at that.
01:17:54
Curt
ah More vinyls because I'm dorking out about that. A Roland BN20, which is like a proper eco-solvent printer for making stickers because there's one, once again, on fricking marketplace. It's a thousand bucks, but I just realized the heads on those things to replace them are two grand. So anyways, I'll riff on that probably next week. Sublimation printing because I'm just yeah i'm just deep into this world right now. And ah the Voron Cascade, which is their little CNC machine that they just released. Light duty, um but pretty cool if you're ah if you're into the kind of Voron world.
01:18:24
Curt
So ah who wants to go next, Jamie or Trevor?
01:18:28
Trevor Hirschi
I'll go next. Jamie, go next. I'm still looking.
01:18:31
jamie peacock
I'll go next. Okay, cool, no problem. I was just looking up the Voron cascade because
01:18:38
Curt
ah
01:18:39
jamie peacock
anyway, yeah, I've been I've been reading manuals for VFDs and spindle manuals because I installed the spindle and it has not gone to plan. I was tracking the parcel off to EJ. It has arrived safely and then looking for industrial spaces, which I think we'll dive into a bit more next week.
01:18:57
jamie peacock
ah But yeah, there's a changes afoot in JSpec engineering.
01:19:04
jamie peacock
I feel like I'm going lots of messages about that.
01:19:06
Trevor Hirschi
um i
01:19:06
Curt
How about you, Master Trip?
01:19:08
Trevor Hirschi
I'm looking at, yeah, G Master. G Master lenses. There's a bunch of things that have been we're related with switching from Nikon world of 20 years ago to updating the Sony world today. Master lenses, specs for 11 lathe components, various paintings of Jesus Christ to have in my home.
01:19:34
Trevor Hirschi
um Micro 100 tooling, tool holders for my my new Haas office lathe that I'm having fun with, um dovetail cutters,
01:19:48
Trevor Hirschi
um architecture design, ah ant miner, Bitcoin miners, forerunner off-road things,
01:20:04
Trevor Hirschi
um cerakoting stuff which i still have yet to go play with my cerakote that i've got um yeah bunch of stuff like that tools and learning and yeah there we go
01:20:20
Curt
Sweet. I feel like out of all those topics, we could probably build a whole other show. so
01:20:25
Trevor Hirschi
yeah i'm sure lots lots there
01:20:29
jamie peacock
Hoss kill the ult for L1?
01:20:30
Curt
Cool.
01:20:33
Curt
I think they killed all those office machines.
01:20:33
jamie peacock
They must have killed that one. Yeah.
01:20:36
Curt
Or they flipped them over to the compact machines now or something?
01:20:38
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, the the mill the office mill is now the compact mill, which basically the same thing.
01:20:38
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:20:44
Trevor Hirschi
They they offer a 36 tool tool changer now, which I envy.
01:20:45
Curt
Yeah.
01:20:47
jamie peacock
Ooh.
01:20:48
Trevor Hirschi
And then the office lathe is now the chucker lathe.
01:20:48
Curt
Ooh.
01:20:53
Trevor Hirschi
They put an eight station turret on it.
01:20:54
jamie peacock
There's ult, no.
01:20:56
Trevor Hirschi
And in doing so, they had to raise the spindle up a little higher because the same table with a turret mount on it raised up the center line of tools. and a bar bar feeder so mine's the older one without the bar feeder and just gang tooling but yeah they're still they're still available basically
01:21:07
jamie peacock
Yeah.
01:21:14
jamie peacock
No, okay. ah Yeah, if you want to put a bar feeder on there, give me a shout. We'll literally
Social Media and Platform Engagement
01:21:18
jamie peacock
run... Carl is blanking parts while we speak with the Emco and its built-in bar feeder.
01:21:24
Trevor Hirschi
hmm
01:21:25
jamie peacock
Yeah, can build one relatively easily. But yeah, I think that about sums up the the podcast. ah Where can people find you and your things? You guys can fight over who starts.
01:21:39
Trevor Hirschi
um
01:21:39
Curt
Trevor, you go ahead.
01:21:40
Trevor Hirschi
I have, I'm most active on Instagram at Titan Ring Designs. um I also have Facebook that I'm trying to like, because they connect, like they cross post.
01:21:53
Trevor Hirschi
And it's always interesting that I get like more views on Facebook sometimes and more on Instagram, but Facebook under the same name.
01:21:54
jamie peacock
Okay. Yeah.
01:21:59
Trevor Hirschi
I think I have a Twitter, an X that there that I haven't touched for, I don't know, a dozen years or something like that. Yeah. I'm now getting on to Reddit because there's this different group of people that have more attention span than a goldfish to watch more than a three-second video.
01:22:18
Trevor Hirschi
It's been interesting, but i'm I think I'm just under there as Trevor Hershey. um Yeah, my website is TitanRingDesigns.com. and Oh, my essay.
01:22:28
jamie peacock
There will be a link in the doobly-doo.
01:22:28
Curt
Perfect, yeah.
01:22:30
Trevor Hirschi
Yeah, my Etsy is where I sell my stuff most of the time. I do sell if somebody is like, you know what, screw Etsy fees and you know I believe in decentralized Bitcoin, then let me know and I have wallets and we can make a transaction that way because I don't like fiat currency, honestly. So that's how you find me.
01:22:53
jamie peacock
Nice.
01:22:54
Curt
Awesome.
01:22:55
jamie peacock
Good. Where can people find you?
01:22:57
Curt
Oh, confoundedmachine.com. Links to everything. Links to the podcast. Links to wherever you need to know. Yeah. How about you, Master Jamie?
01:23:04
jamie peacock
Easy mode.
01:23:05
Curt
Easy mode.
01:23:06
jamie peacock
Take a deep breath for this one, yeah. You can follow the day-to-day habits of the Jspec shop at jspec underscore engineering on Instagram. There's also an Instagram nautical workholding where can see what's happening with the anchor points and all those things.
01:23:19
jamie peacock
You can find... anchor points and kill clamps currently on nauticalwh.com and the knives and other things and shirts at jspeceng.com.
01:23:32
jamie peacock
Podcast can be found at loan machinist.com. I think that's the whole list fairly certain it is. ah What are you guys up to for the rest of the day?
01:23:44
Trevor Hirschi
Making more parts.
01:23:44
Curt
Go ahead, driver.
01:23:46
Trevor Hirschi
Got to go make more parts.
01:23:46
Curt
Yeah.
01:23:47
Trevor Hirschi
Putting some bugs together. i have a couple that have sold that I need to get shipped out. I i did my last batch and I um made an option for a blue anodized one, which means that If they so sell and they're not blue anodized, I'm not going to disassemble them because that is a nightmare.
01:24:05
Trevor Hirschi
And so I leave them at 98% complete and I have to go anodized and then assembled.
Daily Manufacturing Tasks and Closing Remarks
01:24:11
Trevor Hirschi
So I have one more of those to go put together, I guess, and get some some of those shipped out.
01:24:16
Trevor Hirschi
so And then making other parts too.
01:24:17
jamie peacock
Loss. Loss. Damn.
01:24:20
Trevor Hirschi
Finishing up this project. I got i got some parts from McMaster car that showed up so I can go work on putting it together. And I got a machine... one more specialty tool for assembly.
01:24:31
Trevor Hirschi
So that's what I'm at.
01:24:34
Curt
Cool.
01:24:37
Curt
Cool. What about you, Jamie?
01:24:40
jamie peacock
I might go try a different end mill on this job because my 10mm rough is really loud because only taking like two mils off the top. So might go load a different tool into the machine and try that so that I don't annoy my neighbors all night. But I've got another 29 rings to machine over the weekend. So going to be a ah the current one has got an hour and a half cycle time on it.
01:25:02
jamie peacock
So that is literally my entire day tomorrow running those. And then, yeah I might go run another one now. That'll get me to like nine o'clock and then call it for the day.
01:25:13
Curt
Cool.
01:25:13
jamie peacock
But yeah, carrying on.
01:25:14
Curt
And yeah, and I'm going to close up this corporate order.
01:25:16
Trevor Hirschi
Thank you.
01:25:19
Curt
I just got an email during the podcast that they actually paid, which is always kind of concerning with corporate because they freak me out.
01:25:22
jamie peacock
Oh, that's always an answer.
01:25:25
Curt
That's why I avoid them. But yeah, that's done now so I can get off and yeah, rinse repeat.
01:25:32
jamie peacock
Well, thank you everybody for listening. I hope you enjoyed this special guest episode. And if you did enjoy it, consider subscribing, liking all those things. If you've seen our faces, you've probably been on YouTube or Zencaster if you're AJ. If you didn't see our faces and you were on Spotify or one of the other podcast things, go check us out. can see what we look like on YouTube.
01:25:53
jamie peacock
um Consider sharing if you enjoyed it and we will see you next week.
01:25:58
Curt
Thanks for coming on, Trevor, and thanks for your time. Take care, all.
01:26:00
Trevor Hirschi
Absolutely.