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Ep 42 - Arsenal vs Forest Pre and Post Match Reactions
6 Plays27 days ago
James and Marley discuss what they think might happen at The Emirates then react to the relaity of what did happen.
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Transcript
Introduction and Upcoming Game 'Ask Norm'
00:00:04
Speaker
This is the intro, Molly.
00:00:08
Speaker
No. He had this before. I have no idea what this is. This is a button that says intro, outro on the GSPN. and This is Daily Forest here at GSPN.
Midfield Line-Up Changes and Expectations
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm James. He's Marley. And today's game, Ask Norm, first knock on forest. The emirate is going to be an interesting one. um And as is this music, I think it says it goes forever. So let's see if we can stop that. Marley, how you doing, mate?
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm doing very well. Would be better if the lineup said something else, but. it vote no just It's a bit of a weird one. I don't really know um what's going on, whether it feels a bit like Fulham. You know what I mean? When we saw the Fulham lineup come out, we were just like, whoa. So and do you want to give us a lot? Go on. What do you say?
00:01:09
Speaker
The line-up is Matt's cells as the goalkeeper, as we were all expecting. Same with the back four, we were all expecting it to be Moreno, Aina, Morello and Milankovic. Yes. The midfield is where it gets weird though. The midfield is of Yates, Ward-Prowles and Dominguez. Meanwhile, the wingers are Hudson, Doyne and Alanga. And the striker is Taiwo Awane, his first Premier League start of the season. A lot to impact. Yeah. So, well...
00:01:37
Speaker
There's two there for me, because Yates Dominguez in midfield, um yep, that's how it's been. Ward Prowse in, so if if we were playing the normal system of your two kind of holding midfielders and then your number 10 creative midfielder, which is either, for me, Gibbs White, Anderson, or Yotta Silver.
00:02:06
Speaker
not Ward Prowse. So what what do we think?
Concerns Over Key Player Injuries
00:02:10
Speaker
The worry for me, the worry for me is, Gibbs White is not even on the bench. To me, I can only say he's injured. To me, that can only say he's picked up an injury in the last, and that would be the last day or two of training, by the way, because I was at work on Wednesday and Morgan Gibbs White was in the shop and he was completely fine. Yeah, neither is Anderson.
00:02:33
Speaker
Exactly that's people will say oh, yeah, you're worried about kids might be an injured but we got through the last one We only got through the last one because Anderson was the perfect replacement without him as well. Now it gets worrying Yeah, I Can't is blow my blowing me away. I just can't and there's not been anything from the club.
00:02:55
Speaker
that I've seen. No rumblings that there was going to be any issues with Gibbs-White or Anderson. I I know before the internationals they were both carrying a bit of something. The only thing I can think of is Anderson still not recovered from whatever he had before the international break and Gibbs-White threw up on the bus on the way to the game or something. Yeah and just didn't even make it on the bench.
00:03:22
Speaker
it's weird. Um, I'm sure we'll find out, um, you know, either during the match, uh, from the commentators, pundits, um, or afterwards. But yeah, so we had won that. The other thing that worries me, the other thing that worries me about the changes to line up is would be in benched.
Game Predictions and Divided Expectations
00:03:40
Speaker
Obviously, Taiwan is more than capable when he's fully fit.
00:03:43
Speaker
But the issue is that he hasn't been fully fit, he hasn't been sharp, and I'm not sure if Oedie Emirates is the best time for his first start to come. I don't know, but I've only liked a goal against Arsenal, doesn't he? I mean, granted, at the city ground against Arsenal, um but just like a goal against Arsenal, so you you never know, there might be some... He last did score the Emirates last season.
00:04:06
Speaker
So, but I was telling my lads about a dream I had last night that Wood scored. And so and it was a 2-1 win for Forrest.
00:04:17
Speaker
So that that would be my my and ah prediction with a winning goal from Wood. So hopefully that, you know, Wood can get on there the pitch. the The worry is Wood's been playing fantastic, you know, absolutely smashing goals in for New Zealand, but he's been playing event against like Vanuatu and Samoa, Pacific Islands teams. So he's put some miles under his belt over the last two weeks, jet lag issues.
00:04:47
Speaker
you can understand why he's been dropped because he's played a lot of football lately and that football's been at different sides of the world yeah exhaustion will be a very big factor there yeah um so yeah bit bit of a bit of a strange one there let's just discuss that middle all three because it's obvious how Hudson, Adoy, Alanga and Ohonia are going to line up but that middle three Yates Ward Prowse and
Impact of Midfield Changes: Dominguez vs Ward Prowse
00:05:14
Speaker
Dominguez again. I mean, I i did say that, you know, Ward Prowse might step into that role, but I doubt he will step into the Gibbs White Anderson role. Do we think that's going to be Dominguez stepping up there and Ward Prowse sitting back alongside Yates to kind of play the quarter pass quarterback passes?
00:05:35
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised. um Obviously, we've seen before across the last two seasons, Dominguez filling in as a makeshift winger. so I can't see why we wouldn't allow them to try and fill in with a makeshift cam today and I can see him playing as more of a ah basic attacking midfielder though and having a deep line playmaker in James Ward Prowse. Yep. ah Maybe Dominguez gets a bit of a Tarakista role. I know I'm speaking a bit of football manager gibberish here but... Yeah, well, maybe. <unk> We'll see how it goes. We'll soon know um if it's absolutely
00:06:13
Speaker
garbage I just hope what we're not falling into here is a really flat 4-3-3 going really defensive with Dominguez, Ward Prowse and Yates kind of hugging the front of the front four back four sorry um and yeah really not having any impact attacking on the game and creativity wise so it doesn't seem like a very creative lineup. That would be a revert to what we had before with Zach Cooper and it would it would not be what the fans want to see especially not. Yeah low blocks especially if we lose I can see a lot of daggers coming out and to to be like why have we done that and what was wrong with them worrying as well
00:07:05
Speaker
odegard and t trossad on the other side you know really started um hitting the buttons with odogad being back but white's out which is going to be a miss for them um but yeah it's a bit of a worry this one
00:07:26
Speaker
The issue them, the things I take a bit of hope from with them is that you get your users upfront,
00:07:37
Speaker
Martinelli is apparently carrying an injury.
International Commitments and Club Impact
00:07:40
Speaker
Erdogan won't be fully fit again. And Calipheore is essentially out of position. OK, well, i've I've been blown away by that that line-up. I know it's only a couple of changes, but not having um either Gibbs-White or Anderson on the bench just seems, but without any kind of ah preamble,
00:08:07
Speaker
as to, yeah, they're injured, they're not going to be there. Not not even having any sort of inkling as to why it's it's really dumbing. One that I wanted to discuss briefly, I don't know, I've had man flu, so I've been in ah another world for the last week or so, and it's really bad man flu as well. Any female spores out there that don't believe in man flu, it's a real thing.
00:08:29
Speaker
um but But, Ina, so there was and Nigeria, it was a bit weird because Nigeria said Ina's left the camp not for footballing reasons or not injury or whatever um and then it came out a couple of days later the coach from Nigeria saying yeah, Nuno called us from forest and said look we've got Arsenal.
00:08:50
Speaker
and Can we have him back? And Nigeria were like, yeah, take him. um It's okay. I guess that games weren't as important. and We didn't want that injury. then We could have less minutes in his legs over the international break. What are you thinking about? ah Generally about international managers being happy um to send players back to the clubs. I think it massively depends, if I'm honest. um Obviously,
00:09:18
Speaker
If I'm not mistaken, Nigeria have won almost every single game in their qualifier group. If I'm not mistaken, they should pretty much already be qualified. So I don't really think there's much riding on that game. And I think they could have coped
Club vs Country Prioritization Debate
00:09:32
Speaker
without Aina. So that's why I think he was willing to like, yeah, they go have him. But if it was England versus if it was the England game, say, where in order to get promoted in Nations League, we need a win and one of our important players to just let go back. I think that would be out of order because it's a game that actually has something really riding on it.
00:09:50
Speaker
To be honest with you, I don't think any England player could have withstood that that sort of scrutiny, even if it was an AF game, that it should have always been. They should want to and play for thee the national team. I guess it's not as extreme as the whole Ben White thing, um but ah player a player choosing club over country is the argument, isn't it? and and do Do you allow them just to come back? I'm sure he will because he's one of the better players. Even Harry Kane was calling out the Kaiosaka. Even Harry Kane was calling out the England players like the Kaiosaka who didn't come to the England camp because then Cole Palmer simply because they wanted to choose club over country. Yeah. Yeah. And that was like the English camp.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, nine of them wasn't there that that chose. I mean, yeah, some of them are carrying knocks and different things, but under Southgate, I'm sure it was Saka was saying or or some others, even if you're injured, you show up to camp because you want to be there. You want to be in there around there the team, at least on the first day. So if they let you come, you you show up, even if you're not in the the actual chosen squad, if you're injured, you know, you're part of the plans going forward. So you want to be a part of what's happening.
00:11:14
Speaker
For me, going while injured isn't the best idea because personally for me, if I was injured and I'd been picked for England, I wouldn't go simply because I'd want to continue my recovery and my treatment with the people I've been doing it with already with the club. That is understandable. That's acceptable. Yeah, I don't think it's a ah thing of going for like the two weeks. I think it's more showing showing up on that first day for like the meeting when the whole squad's getting together.
00:11:43
Speaker
to kind of keep that continuity of the the core players and the core squad. If you're invited and you can't go because of injury, just kind of going on the first day and sitting in the meeting and talking about whatever and then being like, right guys, good luck. See like you later. I'm off for the the two weeks to carry on my recovery. I don't know. But what I do you know is, it's gonna be a tough game today, three o'clock on
Game Day Spirit and Outcome Predictions
00:12:10
Speaker
Saturday. the 23rd of November, 2024. What is your prediction, Molly? Well, it's a very difficult game to predict, a scary game to predict, a scary game in general. ah Away at the Emirates, we don't usually do well. We haven't won there in ages, but on the other hand, we beat Arsenal at home, as Mizzou had mentioned, a few years ago, a few years before that, and the other year.
00:12:42
Speaker
We've just not beaten them away. That will eventually have to change. We've changed it away at Liverpool. Martinelli to score. Chris Wood, actually not Chris Wood anymore. A 1-2 score. Sosa off the bench. Nottingham Forest to Arsenal 1.
00:12:59
Speaker
That's what I was going with as well, 2-1. But I'm going to change it just for the the sake of the podcast. And I am going to actually go with 3-2 Thriller to Forest. Don't know who.
00:13:15
Speaker
Don't know why, I just want to say it. But me and Marley, we're going to be back after the game to give our thoughts on what actually happened, see how right or wrong we were. And if these changes worked, if we could do it, it's an unbeaten away record versus an unbeaten home record. Short of a draw today, someone's going to lose that record. And let's hope it's not Forrest. Right, Marley, I'll see you after the game, mate. Actually, actually. Oh, yeah.
00:13:45
Speaker
Go on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, I was just being stupid. I was going to say, actually, no, we could draw. And every I mean, oh, wait, that's what short of the draw means in it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Enjoy the game. marlly I'll see after.
00:14:01
Speaker
Every club, every day on the global sports podcast network. No. Yeah. That's as excited as we get.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's very, very, very bad. um I was saying something to myself at the end of the game, which feels a bit harsh, but at the same time, that game, ah don't I think the only game we've played since promotion, which has felt as bad as that, if not worse than that, was falling away last season when we lost 5-0.
Arsenal vs Nottingham Forest Match Discussion
00:14:37
Speaker
Yes. Even Man City, the 6-0 loss of White Man City, felt better than today. It was absolutely awful. It was bad. It was so bad. and It comes down to a lot of what we were saying earlier in the episode before the game. um So for everyone who ah can't tell, Forrest lost. it was the We spoke about it earlier. Marley's prediction was 2-1 to Forrest. That didn't happen. Mine was 3-2 to Forrest. It actually ended up being 3-0 to Arsenal. um Great. I think today today just shows
00:15:16
Speaker
exactly what we are. We're a team that can compete at the top, but we don't. And the reason we don't today was so obvious. You saw from the players, apart from James Ward-Prowse, some obvious moments of quality today. Yeah, James Ward-Prowse seems to, he will get a lot of stick over the next few days and well deserved in my opinion. Yeah, but the issue was, yes, we showed that we have quality players in moments of quality.
00:15:43
Speaker
But that was the issue. They were isolated moments of quality. We didn't ever put... we I think that was twice in the entire 90 minutes I saw us put together a decent little bit of football. That's the issue. um Yeah, there was there was no...
00:15:57
Speaker
Our advanced midfield seemed to be Ryan Yates, love Yates, but he's better. He's an eight, he's an eight. Yeah, he's not a number 10, let's be honest. The issue is, when we brought Ramon Sosa on and we moved Jota Silva into that 10 role,
00:16:15
Speaker
we look so much better and if we played like that in that setup for the entire 90 minutes I guarantee you we'd have at least only lost by one because we actually looked like a team that was willing to play and fight it was just the fact that we were too little down in an awful performance with the players were like disheartened and just couldn't be asked by the same it seems of it but yeah So just to just to i guess um let everyone know, if you didn't see the match, at the Emirates, first five minutes Arsenal scored. It was timber, disallowed for offside, very close offside. And then 15 minutes later, Saka popped up. We spoke about Saka earlier. the he He is a traitor to me now, England-wise. I don't want to see him again.
00:17:02
Speaker
ah um but they were they were passing passing around us on the edge of the box, one touch football, and sack a quick one-two with Odergaard, I think, or Trossard I don't know, on the edge of the box.
00:17:16
Speaker
and rounded three of our players, went all the way across the 18-yard box and slotted one pass, just smashed one pass, sells.
First Half Performance Analysis
00:17:26
Speaker
It's upsetting to think about, but we're getting a half-time 1-0, which I thought was an achievement with the way we were playing in the first half. What do you think of the first half, Marley? The first half, I would say, the worst half of football this season.
00:17:41
Speaker
um the worst off of football in 2024 without a doubt. We lacked anything, if I'm completely honest. Yeah, I totally agree. We weren't even moving the ball quick enough for a counter-attack. That's how poor it was. Yeah.
00:17:59
Speaker
No, I agree. And some decision-making as well today ah with players. We were on a break, um you know, Elanga towards the end of the game, you know, three passes on, and he just carried on with the ball up through the middle and was dispossessed. but You know what I mean? it was It was easy decisions. It wasn't Elanga, it was Aina, because Elanga came off injured in the second half. Oh no, it was at half time. Elanga came off at half time. Jota Silva came on. Elanga has a shoulder problem following a heavy tackle in the first half, and where he was basically you know mugged. um
00:18:41
Speaker
It would be interesting to see if anything comes to that. But yeah, and then later on in the second half. We took a warning off. A warning just really wasn't doing anything. Um, was getting bodied all over the place by Arsenal defenders and just, just wasn't at the races. Wood came on and it seemed like there was an immediate lift. I don't know if it was psychological. Um, and then we got, um, Sosa came on for Dominguez and who else came on? Was it just those? Um, Williams came on for Aina.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, right but then the next two goals for me were Ward Prowse's, like, not saying fault, they were his men to cover.
Criticism of Ward Prowse's Game Performance
00:19:32
Speaker
They were Ward Prowse's goals, just they were put in the back of the net by Arsenal players. Yeah, so you got timber on the edge of the box, Ward Prowse rushing out to him um and just not closing down fast enough and timber um put in, that no not timber, who was it?
00:19:50
Speaker
The goals goal was not a party. I'm not going to get them to take them aside. Absolute pearler. Smashed it, didn't he? The two things I can take out of that are, we can only improve next week against Dipswitch. Yes, but we need that game desperately. We need Danilo back desperately. Yeah. Because as soon as Danilo's back, we can say, West Ham, do us a favour, take him back, we'll pay you.
00:20:19
Speaker
You know what, Alfie, my lad, he was in such a fit after the third goal because it was Ward Prowse again. watching the video you send Watching the video you sent, can I make a confession? No, go on. Watching that video that you sent was the first time I'd actually seen the goal. Oh, because you just couldn't... you Were you doing the pots? No, I was watching the game. No, I was... a I'll tell the truth, from the 85th minute onwards, I was lying on the sofa with my eyes closed, falling asleep. That's how bad it was. Yeah, it was a pretty dire game. and But yeah, ah ah one of the comments from my lad was, you know, don't even let him back on the bus back to Nottingham. He can walk back to West Ham from there. The thing is, all these things that Alfie says on these videos you send, you might think he's being a bit extreme, but I fully agree with every single word he says. Yeah.
00:21:14
Speaker
Well, even a word he said last week about ah Ashley Taylor, which I can't say on podcast. Yeah. Yeah. yeah He has some pretty extreme views sometimes. Although I'm, I'm the exact same. I won't mention what I said about Gary Neville two years ago, but it was, yeah it was something about, yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
It's really disappointing, really
League Standings and Team Evaluations
00:21:35
Speaker
disappointing. and But onwards, we can only go onwards. What were the other results um today? Did they help us at all? Let's see. Let's have a look. So we got Chelsea Drew. Oh yeah, Draw for Villa against ah Palace 2-2. Brighton only Brighton move above us and we drop to sixth.
00:22:02
Speaker
not too bad then but it's still european yeah it is really tight though isn't it um but you know issue is tomorrow is that uh Tottenham they want to go above the city oh yeah Tottenham can go above us uh yeah but Tottenham aren't going to beat Sydney oh tonight yeah but if they if they do oh yeah and Ipswich Man United Man United can they go above us or Oh, we're a bit safe for now. when you know Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. Fulham and Brentford, no, just Fulham could have got above us as well, but they didn't, so. Yeah.
00:22:39
Speaker
So it's it's not we knew that this was going to be a difficult period with some big teams, um teams that we would expect to probably finish above us in the table. So it's not a dire result.
Frustrations Over Player Injuries
00:22:52
Speaker
If this result comes again next week against Ipswich and we lose 3-0 at the city ground, then yeah, that's that's a pretty dire situation and something needs to happen. But um I was pretty disappointed. They did say, um during the game that Gibbs White wasn't ah able to play because he was still carrying an injury from Chelsea, the Chelsea match. yeah But it's just a bit annoying that he played for England. like That was my exact thoughts. You know what I mean? He played for England and gave it his all and got the assists and everything, but he's not good enough to be on the bench for us. He's that he that injured. He can't be on the bench.
00:23:34
Speaker
Do you know what really gets me here and makes me think Arteta should, I'm not going to speak anymore on Arteta this topic because I'll scare on the topic with Arteta because I'll get this podcast taken down. But how are you allowed to stop your players being given international call-ups when they come out in the next game really fresh and on fire yet we send players for international call-ups and they come back unable to play the next game and tired?
00:24:01
Speaker
how yeah How is that fair? How is that within the interest of keeping the game entertaining and decent?
Assessment of Ward Prowse's Role in the Team
00:24:09
Speaker
Well, all I'm going to say, Marley, is James Ward Prowse should not be anywhere near a Premier League team. He is not Premier League standard. Yes, he can take a free kick. Yes, he can take a corner. But he gives nothing else to the game. He doesn't have any heart when it comes to the Forest team.
00:24:29
Speaker
I've seen players absolutely throw their bodies on the line. His attempts to block two goals today were just poor. And I want to beeping, as my son said, leave him in London. He can walk back to West Ham from here and will pay his wages for the rest of the season and just to keep him away from the club. If he is on the pitch again next week, I cannot. you must be You must have some dirt on Nuno to be able to get selected.
00:24:59
Speaker
I'll be completely honest, I've got two things to say about World Prowse right now. The first thing is that, in my opinion, he's a mix of three players. He's got the set pieces of Roberto Carlos, he's got the desire of Luke Freeman, and he's got the quality of, I don't know, Faubacheru. Yeah. Oh, yes. He's an absolutely awful player with no passion, but he can whip the ball.
00:25:29
Speaker
If he couldn't take a set piece,
Speculating Future Without Ward Prowse
00:25:32
Speaker
where would he be playing? Like what level? No need to borrow. He will be at no need to borrow if he could not take a free kick. It'd be in the lower echelons of the football league and because I've just not seen anything. he made so The only positive I can remember today is he made a headed clearance at one point from across. The second thing I want to say about him, by the way. Go on.
00:25:59
Speaker
This feels really bad to say. And you can let Alfie know this as well, because he'll probably love hearing this. Go on. If his name is announced at all against Ipswich, I will do something which I have never done before and would probably never do again. I will boo one of our own players. Whoa! Whoa! Flippin' heck. He's not one of our own, though.
00:26:28
Speaker
Fair enough. You know what, we said this earlier in the season after one of his dire performances, this is why he didn't get snapped up by, you know, bigger clubs because they look at him and they think, what does he bring? And can you say the thing? and its Other than a set piece. The thing I'd really like to point out is this isn't, us slating war prowls isn't an overreaction to our performance today. One, he really was that bad. Two, we had a historic win against Liverpool earlier in the season and we were still complaining about war prowess in that game.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah, I just think he's a luxury player. We played with 10 men today, um you know, and he's a luxury player that doesn't give enough luxury to deserve being on the pitch. You know, like he doesn't give he doesn't give enough that the team can carry him for 85 minutes and he wins us the game in the, you know, five minutes that he's actually good.
00:27:28
Speaker
Exactly. Take him out of that team today and put jot of silver in Cam. Started. Different story. Completely different story. We actually look like a fighting team. Yeah. And I don't ah don't know why we had Yates as Cam. I just...
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, it did. It just didn't work on so many levels today. um Injuries seem to have got us injuries. We didn't even know about injuries that have, I want to swear mate, but there's no swearing on this podcast. I am so annoyed at the whole Gibbs white England situation and that he's, he's obviously worsened. If he'd not a gone, if he was injured and he'd not a gone to the England camp, he'd have had two weeks to shake off this
Looking Forward to Ipswich Match
00:28:11
Speaker
knock. Exactly. Two weeks on the treatment table. That makes all the difference.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, we were saying it just before, you know, when when I was saying go to the camp, anyway, and you were like, no, no, go and get treated. You know, and I mean, we didn't hear what was wrong with Anderson, but probably going on an international deal with under 21s. No, he wasn't with the under 21s. That's the thing. But the point I want to make with Morgan White is He's gone away to whit play for England, he's come back, he wasn't fit to start today and I would be surprised if he's any further to bench against Ipswich. If he spends those two weeks on the treatment table, he's fully fit again now and firing all cylinders again. Yeah. That's the issue. well
00:28:53
Speaker
Onwards and upwards, isn't it? Let's let's have Ipswich at the city grounds. To be Ipswich. A week today. um Obviously, we're going to talk about that more um going through this this week. But final thoughts, Marley?
Final Reflections and Player Performance
00:29:11
Speaker
How are you feeling? Wardprow's out. Wardprow's out. Totally agree with you. Wardprow's out. Alfie, have you got anything to say?
00:29:22
Speaker
You don't want to. what What do you think of Ward Prowse? Do you not swear?
00:29:27
Speaker
last has
00:29:31
Speaker
He doesn't put the effort in and so he shouldn't be playing. Okay. There you go. From the mouth of babes. Couldn't have put it any better. Yeah. Well, thanks Marley. Thanks everyone for listening. thanks again Like, share the episode and we will catch you um tomorrow once hopefully we've all cheered up.
00:29:51
Speaker
but a snap for more but while tomorrow