Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S1E2 - Sedona Prince - Now It's Legal with Jim Cavale
171 Plays9 months ago
Sedona Prince is a current basketball player for the Texas Christian University Horned Frogs in the Big 12 Conference. She previously played for the Oregon Ducks and the Texas Longhorns. In 2021, Sedona was named to the FIBA Women's AmeriCup roster, helping the USA to a 6-0 record and the gold medal.
Sedona joins Now It's Legal to discuss the explosion of women’s basketball, the future of college athletics and the national attention she gained in 2021 after bringing light to the lack of equality in facilities between the men's and women's NCAA tournaments.
About Now It's Legal
In July 2021, NIL forever changed the trajectory of college athletics. It’s been a long time coming as the NCAA has long needed changes like NIL, the transfer portal, revenue sharing and other benefits for college athletes. We introduce to you the Now It’s Legal podcast. Join us as we discuss the industry that holds the hearts of millions of fans who want to understand where its trajectory is heading. We are talking to those who are invested in and affected by NIL including: Former and current college athletes, presidents and head coaches, broadcasters and media personalities, investors and more. This is just the beginning of NIL and what it means for the future of college athletics.
Host Jim Cavale is a former college athlete and entrepreneur who has become an advocate for young athletes across the country. In 2017, he created the INFLCR app that allowed athletes to build their brand on social media, and in 2021, evolved into the NIL management technology for more than 100,000 athletes across 200 college athletic programs. INFLCR has since been acquired by sports tech titan, Teamworks.
In 2023, Jim founded Athletes.org which which is the players association for college athletes to negotiate the best terms for their college athletics experience. AO provides its member athletes with a free membership, empowering them with a voice, on demand support, and group licensing income in the same ways that professional league associations do for their member athletes. Tune in to a new episode every Monday and join in on the conversation on Instagram with @nowitslegalpod and @jimcavale.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Setting the Tone
00:00:07
Speaker
Man, I love that line from Drake.
What is athletes.org and its Purpose?
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Now It's Legal. He said, I ain't gotta do it, but screw it. Somebody's gotta do it. Hate if someone else did it. Damn, I may as well do it.
00:00:26
Speaker
And I'll start with that today because the reality is we didn't have to get athletes.org going, but somebody has to create the group for all college athletes to unite.
00:00:39
Speaker
for college athletes to, as one group, be able to talk to leaders at the school, conference, NCAA levels.
Challenges and Objectives of Athletes.org
00:00:48
Speaker
And it's not gonna be easy to build athletes.org. The first seven months have been super challenging, but a lot of headwinds have become talwinds. Why? Because court cases are continuously evolving and the writing is on the wall. The same way that the writing was on the wall,
00:01:08
Speaker
when Ed O'Bannon beat the NCAA for NIL. Seven years before NIL happened, there were clues where leaders who were not thinking about their next contract, were not thinking about personal aspirations, but instead put their ambitions aside, could have innovated. And with innovating, could have created an NIL model that's a lot different than we have today. But that didn't happen.
00:01:34
Speaker
And here we are again, with House versus the NCAA, with the NLRB cases, with the Johnson case. And once again, it's time to be proactive and innovate.
The Importance of Unity Among Athletes
00:01:45
Speaker
College athletics leaders, you want to get protection from Congress. You have to have a deal agreed to with your athletes. And they need a group that they unite into to be able to negotiate that deal, whether it's revenue sharing terms or other benefits like medical coverage and beyond.
00:02:05
Speaker
And so I ain't got to do it, but screw it. Somebody's got to do it. So we may as well do it.
Growth and Focus of Athletes.org
00:02:12
Speaker
That's athletes.org's premise. And that's what Brandon Copeland and our team are living out every day as we've now signed up more than 2,500 college athletes and focusing on power conference sports.
00:02:27
Speaker
like men's basketball, women's basketball, and football, which make up a great majority of our membership with team reps across 60 plus power conference teams.
Sedona Prince's Role and Gender Inequality in Sports
00:02:38
Speaker
And so athletes are starting to realize they need to unite. And there's reasons for that. And our interviewee today is a big reason for that. Sedona Prince didn't have to do what she did.
00:02:52
Speaker
Sedona Prince didn't have to go build a TikTok following throughout COVID that became hundreds of thousands of followers and do it also on Instagram and other platforms so that she would be in a point, in a moment in time in 2021 when there were severe inequalities between women's and men's basketball March Madness tournaments.
Introducing Sedona Prince
00:03:16
Speaker
And she was able to expose those inequalities
00:03:19
Speaker
And as you fast forward three years from then to today and you look at where women's basketball is, there was a catalytic moment. And the catalytic moment starts with Sedona Prince. And so enjoy this one. It's going to be really good. Here's our next episode of Now It's Legal with Sedona Prince.
00:03:45
Speaker
Redona, first off, thank you so much for making time. You're an athletes.org member athlete, team rep at TCU, but you're also somebody that's been working on a lot of the same things we've been working on here at athletes.org for years. And so I want to start
Sedona's NCAA Experience and Viral Advocacy
00:04:03
Speaker
in March 2021 in Texas, your home state where you're from.
00:04:09
Speaker
and your decision to bring the inequities between the women's and men's basketball tournaments for March Madness to light. How did that all happen? How did it all go down? Yeah, so we're heading down to, it's my first NCAA tournament, so I'm excited, you know, puppy dog eyes. We head into this big, big conference arena that they had turned into, it was COVID times, so they had to turn this big hotel into this arena they were playing in, into these big conference rooms, we're walking in,
00:04:38
Speaker
and all of a sudden we had seen tweets and stuff of just this kind of just silly little weight room they put in and we didn't believe it right we're like no way this this has happened this can't be real we're just you know all joking online and we walk into the arena and boom there it is and
00:04:53
Speaker
The NCAA had put out a statement as well saying, oh, it was room, it was a room, we didn't have enough space. And so, of course, walking into these big conference rooms were like, you know, that's not true. And so, you know, I was kind of a little personally like, hey, this is not okay. I had been kind of seeing the inequities that the NCAA had been giving us for years and years and been a part of the NCAA for three years at this point. And so, I flipped the camera and started making a TikTok video.
00:05:22
Speaker
And so as you're doing that, how much prep went into it, if at all? Like, did you just add lib or were you like, all right, I want to make sure I highlight this. I want to make sure I highlight that.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, so I made a video before practice, and I actually have that draft somewhere, but it's me, same video, exactly the same, but I'm pretty angry in it. Like, you can tell that I'm like, it's my emotions, and I'm like, you know, this is ridiculous, and my God, like, you know, just really, really mad. And so I was like, okay, let me just take a second and breathe, right? This is a big video to post, calling out the NCAA is something that's very scary. Let me just go through practice. So I went through the hour practice that we had,
00:05:58
Speaker
And then as our team is walking out, right, I already had, you know, thought about things I wanted to say during practice and kind of cooled off and got my workout in. And so I reshot the video, you know, as everyone's leaving and I'm kind of in a hurry. And that's the video that, you know, everyone has seen today. So calming down and like collecting.
The Power of Collective Athlete Voices
00:06:17
Speaker
That's smart. And you obviously had a lot of big name athletes, men and women,
00:06:26
Speaker
really celebrate your message, Steph Curry being one that I remember off the top of my head. But you probably also had athletes that you knew from your teammates to other teams in that bubble environment that we had during 2021's March Madness that you probably talked to about what you had sent out and how they could engage with it, right?
00:06:49
Speaker
Right, yeah, it kind of just like that video and just like all the talk around that time kind of just connected all of us as women's basketball players. We all were like, oh hey, this is something that we all collectively deal with on the daily. This is an issue that we have and gifting and whatever it may be. When you play women's basketball, you know that you're gonna face inequities and all these girls had been.
00:07:11
Speaker
And so, you know, talking to their athletes, we talked to Stanford players and, and Baylor players. And like, we were all like, Oh my goodness, this is something that we're all dealing with. And we kind of just all banded together, right? And to spread this message. Um, and, and all they all got behind me, which is, you know, such, it's such a blessing that I was able to, to push for this and be at the forefront of it. But, um, but yeah, just kind of all united us and brought us together behind one message, which is amazing. And, and I think that's a really important point to highlight for athletes.
00:07:38
Speaker
and parents listening is there's a power in the group. There's a power.
00:07:44
Speaker
in uniting that no matter how big of a star you are, you'll never have on your own as much power to speak and push change as you do as a group. And in history, there's been a lot of leagues at the pro level where the star athletes who had a lot more to lose and much less to gain were willing to sacrifice and be a part of the group. And it got everyone together. And by uniting,
00:08:11
Speaker
you can push change, you can raise awareness, and that's what y'all did. Yeah, absolutely. It's the only
Building a Personal Brand in Athletics
00:08:15
Speaker
way that we see real change being made in this world is a group of people standing for one thing, and there's power, I mean, significant power in that, right? My video, it was awesome, but if we didn't have athletes like Steph Curry or all of us banding together, it would have gotten nowhere. It wouldn't have made the impact that it did because people really saw how upset we were, how angry we were,
00:08:36
Speaker
and like how much you know inequity we've been facing and that's what you know really just like triggered that fire and other people to be like oh wow you know now i want to stand up for them i want to join this group of people leading you know holding together being together united because you know i want to make change with them which was it was yeah it was inspiring to watch everyone just unite behind this one issue
00:08:57
Speaker
And for us at athletes.org, I mean, that's what we're working on every day. And you're seeing it real time as a player rep for TCU women's basketball. Having athletes join one group is what is going to give us the biggest opportunity here in the future to push more change, which we're going to get to what the future could look like in a little bit. I want to go back. So you and I first met in
00:09:24
Speaker
October 2019 is actually the month I went back and looked at my pictures from my Eugene trip back in my influencer software days and I came out and spoke to your team and Sabrina was still there and you were a freshman right and you took that talk to heart you told me that years later in 2020
00:09:46
Speaker
You did a lot of work during COVID to build your TikTok and eventually your Instagram and your other socials. What inspired that and talk about that grind? Because without that platform, what you did in 2021 wouldn't have been seen and wouldn't have went viral.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, that talk of branding, you know, and like I had known about it and I know that I had this power of, you know, being a student athlete, but that's the first thing that I was like, oh man, like I can, you know, really build my brand, I can have a platform, I can do this as a student athlete.
00:10:20
Speaker
And I was injured at the time, and so my eligibility had been ruled, you know, I couldn't play that next year. And so I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to pour everything that I have into building a brand. I'm a very entrepreneur-like mindset. My parents are entrepreneurs, and so I grew up around that world and just building my own business. And so I was like, you know what?
00:10:41
Speaker
pour everything I have into this and grind it every single day, like, you know, it is a grind to make content. I was, before this Wait Your March Madness video and stuff, people know me from that, but I gained 500,000 followers before that from every single day, you know, posting original content of my height and just, I come back and doing tattoos and, you know, trying to build an audience and a brand of who Sona Prince was.
00:11:03
Speaker
off the court, right? And then now that year that I had played and the March Madness was like, okay, who am I now as a player? And so that first meeting I had, I was like, it just expanded my mind of, oh my goodness, this is so much more than just college athletics. I have just such an opportunity while I'm in college to really take advantage of this platform that I have and to make my name known for even when I'm long out of the NCAA.
NIL's Role in Athlete Branding
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, and I think what's really cool about it is that is what
00:11:34
Speaker
is so great about NIL. And this was before NIL, the story you're telling in 2019, but social really began the motivation for college athletes
00:11:47
Speaker
to develop new muscles, new skills while they're still playing that when I was a college baseball player, I never developed at all. And that is the muscle of creating a brand, going out and networking, making connections with folks, be able to sell yourself and who you are and why you should do a deal with me, right? Like those things are beautiful because they will help athletes after they're playing for the rest of their lives.
00:12:14
Speaker
And you were able to really cultivate that during such a really crucial time. Yeah, I mean, I had been like, you know, you see networking and stuff like I had loved that even before I started on social media, my freshman year of college, I went to the University of Texas. And I had broke my leg, you know, was just very like, man, I don't have any sports. And I remember going to an Oracle meeting with my upperclassmen, our master students. And I was the youngest kid there as a freshman. And I was just like wanting to meet people and like,
00:12:42
Speaker
I talked about getting a job at Oracle one day, but I was just wanting to get out and meet people and start a business, and I didn't know how to do it, and then when socials came around and TikTok started to blow up, I was like, oh man, now this is a way that I can see it as a business instead of a social media platform, and that's what kind of inspired me, but I had been doing this, I love business and I love the entrepreneurship of it, and so once you came to talk to us, that's when it sparked, and I was like, oh man, this could be something cool.
00:13:13
Speaker
Well, what you did to take action after I talked to y'all is unbelievable because you go back to building a platform where you have six figure following and then having the guts and creativity to share what you shared about the inequities in 2021. And now you fast forward.
00:13:33
Speaker
to today, where an average of 6 million people were watching each of
Recognition of Women's Basketball
00:13:39
Speaker
the four Elite Eight games for the Women's March Madness tournament this past weekend. One of those games had more than 15 million average viewers, which of course was the LSU Iowa Showdown. And I mean, women's basketball is in a place that it's never been before.
00:13:58
Speaker
And I believe that the catalytic moment started in 2021. And of course, there was other things that had to develop. Obviously, having star players like Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, etc, are very important as well. But talk about what it's like seeing women's basketball be where it's at today versus where it was in 2021.
00:14:19
Speaker
Jim and it's beautiful man like to watch you know my sport growing up I've you know watched Brianna Stewart and all these players in the NCAA and just been like oh man like this is this is college hoops at its finest you know like this is where I want to be and then just like oh my god this sports amazing and oh man it's so beautiful too especially because you know we were in a place where in our sport it was so frustrating where like at that wall we were like
00:14:42
Speaker
We know that our game deserves so much love, so much attention. We can see it, we can feel it. We're almost there, we're on the cusp of it. And whether it's that moment or something else, within those few years, all this attention was being brought to our sport.
Court Cases Against NCAA and Athlete Rights
00:14:59
Speaker
And now to see where it's at, it's unbelievable that now we're finally here. We've made it and we're still pushing, it's not over.
00:15:07
Speaker
It's not over until we're no longer fighting for equity. But man, it's such a beautiful sight to see. I love all the memes and stuff on social media. It's like, this is what we need. All this talk about our game is amazing. Well, shifting to where we are today, not just with women's basketball and the explosion of it, but also with college athletics in general and ultimately with the college athletics revenue model and allocation to all the different
00:15:36
Speaker
stakeholders, which athletes are one of, there are a lot of court cases going on right now. And once again, they're against the NCAA. Now, the only reason you and I even know each other is because Ed O'Bannon had the guts to go at the NCAA around name, image, and likeness. And that case and the decision for O'Bannon in that case is really what gave me the beginnings of what became influencer.
00:16:02
Speaker
And our theory back then in 2017 was, NIL is not a matter of if, but when it's going to happen. And O'Bannon is writing on the wall for NIL. So let's help athletes with social and brand building through school partnerships. And let's be in a place to help with NIL when that happens, right?
00:16:19
Speaker
So the same type of catalyst for influencer with O'Bannon was the catalyst for me and Brandon Copeland in startingathletes.org. And it was cases like Johnson versus the NCAA or the NLRB cases against the NCAA or the House versus NCAA case, which you are one of the plaintiffs in that case. And so that case in particular has a lot to do with media revenue.
00:16:46
Speaker
that's been generated by especially women's basketball, men's basketball, and football athletes over the past decade. And it's a class going backwards that will recoup some of the money that they helped generate could be as much as $4.2 billion. I'm just quoting news articles.
00:17:06
Speaker
And so that will also set precedents moving forward, which we hope to help the leaders at the school and conference and NCAA level negotiate with those women's basketball, men's basketball, and football athletes for what terms could look like to share that media revenue in the future.
00:17:24
Speaker
with those athletes. But talk about, you know, that's our involvement.
Sedona's Involvement in NCAA Lawsuits
00:17:29
Speaker
That's my involvement through athletes.org with all this. You're one of the plaintiffs. So like, what does that entail? What got you into the case to become a plaintiff? And what can you say about it?
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah, so whenever I, um, when I transferred from the University of Texas, I got an injury, um, and I transferred for health and safety reasons and just felt like I, you know, there's a lot of malpractice at my university and I, I didn't feel like, you know, I'd been treated as, as what has, as I should have been as a student athlete. And, and I just, you know, felt very, very upset about it. And so as I transferred, I didn't get to play again, instead of label made eligible.
00:18:08
Speaker
And so more of that anger, I was just like, man, all these adults around me that are supposed to be taking care of me are not, and it's so unfair, and this is not how it should be. And so my mom had the opportunity, he reached out to one of the people in the College Players Association, a different one, right, that he just connected with us, and he said, hey, would you like to be a plaintiff in this house versus a law suit? And I had no idea about it, and I was like, you know,
00:18:33
Speaker
What is NIL? What does that even mean? But I've already been taken advantage of so much that, you know, I'm upset with NCAA. Absolutely sign me up. I want to be a part of this in any way I can. And so I had no idea that it would be this and no idea that it would turn into this and that it would be a catalyst for this much change.
00:18:48
Speaker
but i just wanted to know just make it change somehow right and put my name into some use my name is like this in some way and then try to push for change and so i joined a lawsuit and and pretty much it's you know i i constantly get documents seized and i'm giving them my own you know information into nil and what
00:19:08
Speaker
what my deals look like and all these things and giving them my information right and then I had my head of deposition with the NCAA and so sat in front of them for seven hours straight in front of four NCAA lawyers and was deposed and asked about NIL and my thoughts and everything which was a crazy experience that I'll have you know be able to talk about one day in my life but yeah now it's for you know as this lawsuit goes to trial in 2025 right it's about
00:19:36
Speaker
All right, now how can we get as much attention around it as possible?
Potential Changes in College Athletics
00:19:39
Speaker
How can we, we're hopefully pushing for, you know, everything to go our way and for this, you know, the floodgates to stay open, right, to this be a permanent law, and I'll have to be, you know, we're able to use it forever.
00:19:52
Speaker
But then to also push for, okay, now what other things are an issue in NCAA and how do we kind of attach this on but also just let's just fix everything in one fail swoop, right? Let's just, you know, get it all done and so then we can continue, you know, in the NCAA just making money and profiting but also having athletes not being taken advantage of and injured and
00:20:14
Speaker
getting taken in any single way. So that's kind of my involvement. I can't talk much about it, but it's been a blessing to be a part of it. It's such an amazing opportunity that I'll be able to have as my story forever. It's amazing. And just kind of progressing through your story, how
00:20:34
Speaker
the work you did building your brand, the work you've done as a player on the court, the work that you've done to continue championing women's basketball, the work you've done now with NIL, with brands and all the deals that you've done.
00:20:45
Speaker
has all led you to a place where you have the opportunity to do something that will make history. And that's amazing. And I think as we look at where the future of college athletics needs to go, everybody immediately goes to revenue sharing and employment status. And I think that those can be paralyzing sometimes because there's a lot of technicalities around employment being good or bad. You hear a lot of things thrown around
00:21:14
Speaker
pertaining to employment of college athletes versus them being the status they are today. With revenue sharing, I think it's very simple. A percentage of gross revenue needs to be negotiated for revenue producing athletes to be able to negotiate their own deals from that piece of the pie.
Advocating for Better Athlete Standards
00:21:34
Speaker
And so if the school and or conference
00:21:37
Speaker
can create a standard that the athletes agree to for gross revenue percentage to go to these athletes that produce this revenue. The math is there. And then from there, you have to have other standards like minimum
00:21:50
Speaker
and maximum and ranges that would be established. You have to address all the other things like Title IX and such. But ultimately, that's the basics of the math that needs to be figured out. And we say this all the time when we're talking to leaders on the college athletics side. Outside of revenue sharing is what I want to talk more about with college athletics future.
00:22:13
Speaker
And that is the benefit side of things. We're seeing conferences realign in ways that we've never saw before. Your old school, Oregon, is now in the Big Ten. And they're going to be playing games against Maryland on a weeknight.
00:22:29
Speaker
And so there is a reality with travel, with outrage spent on your sport versus school, with requirements academically that still exist, with medical coverage, mental health. I could keep going. Every athlete, every sport, revenue producing or profitable or not profitable, needs to have better standards in these categories.
00:22:55
Speaker
yeah absolutely yeah you see I mean just being the life of a student athlete you know it's it's not it's it's so hard to describe unless you're in it right but it is a full-time job you are a full-time student and you know you're you're about your sport every play it's your full-time job you're there at practice for four or five hours a day then you have homework and then you go back for film and treatment and rehab and extra getting extra shots up like it is a constant thing that you're in every single day
00:23:22
Speaker
And it's year-round and so absolutely I mean there should be you know in my opinion right there's and I have a lot of opinions about this but um But why not just you know split it up to where there's you know? North Southeast West right we've been talking about that and how how easy that would be right of just like kids It's how we do it then subway right or that the tournament. It's broken up that way so so yeah I mean there should be regulations on so many different things, but I think the main thing in that gym is if we all stand together as student athletes
00:23:52
Speaker
And if we are now having a voice at the table, that's how we can
The Role of Athletes.org in Advocacy
00:23:57
Speaker
come to real change. That's how we can sit down with the NCAA and make changes that have been done before because we're the ones that are in the student athlete life. We're the ones having to do homework and having to travel all the way across the country to play a game and then all the way back to make it to class. So why wouldn't we be allowed to sit at the table with them and say, hey, let's just come to common ground saying, this is what we want. This is our life, what we're dealing with.
00:24:21
Speaker
And then let's negotiate here and there, right? Say this makes sense, you know, money wise and stuff like, you know, real negotiations. And for us, all the student athletes to really just band together and know that we need change and we need something, you know, now that this is this is happening right now. And what's the best way to do that?
00:24:39
Speaker
I mean through AO right like it's we've been waiting for for you know truly Jim it's you know not because you're a personal you know friend of mine and we've known each other you know for a long time but seriously what you guys have done is create the platform for for the first time that all student athletes can you know talk to each other and can
00:24:58
Speaker
have resources that we've never been able to have that we've been I've had to find second opinions outside of my school for my injury and had to go and pay for my own surgery because I didn't trust the medical team that we had at a university and so for me to pay it was almost $100,000 right out of my pocket to go get the second surgery and to get a second opinion.
00:25:18
Speaker
but it's my health for the rest of my life. Even after no playing sports, you know, I will have my elbow, but I need to, you know, to carry my kids and stuff. And so if I didn't have, if I had a second opinion through AO and was able to have those services and all the different things that come with that, even through the first year of NIL, right? I got taken advantage of so much and made so many mistakes because it was just like a free for all, you know, do whatever, make as many brand deals as you want. And there was no regulations on it. And so now to have a platform like AO and to be able to like
00:25:47
Speaker
have those resources for free and for student athletes just have one place, right, where we can just log into an app and have anything we need for help or whatever has truly been, you know, that's how we're gonna do it, right, a player association. And so I think it's amazing. I'm so excited to be a part of it. It's a key pushing for change. I think it's what we've needed for a very, very long time. And I'm glad that we have so many good people behind it as well. But I mean, this is what is gonna be the biggest catalyst for this new change coming.
00:26:15
Speaker
Well, I appreciate you saying that. And also, you know, that's always what the vision's been. And not just to offer you and every athlete that's a member, the support that you mentioned through our member app and our benefits platform. But also, you talked about a seat at the table, you talked about voice earlier. And
00:26:37
Speaker
that's probably the biggest reason we want all athletes to sign up and be a part of AO is with the more than 2,500 athletes we have as of the beginning of April, 2024, we are able to really get engaged with them easier than we ever expected to the point where, you know, this past week in Phoenix, we sat down with more than
00:27:01
Speaker
10 of our athletes across women's basketball, men's basketball, football, Olympic sports. And we did that with leaders from college sports, from ADs to commissioners to folks at the NCAA level. Nobody's been able to do that in the history of college athletics pertaining to these topics.
The Transfer Portal and NIL Opportunities
00:27:21
Speaker
And that's not because of us.
00:27:23
Speaker
That's because we have you and your peers uniting. And so that's my call to athletes is unite, become a team rep for your team, help get your teammates signed up because the more you unite, the more we can do those kinds of things.
00:27:38
Speaker
And the more you see, I think the most beautiful thing is student athletes being empowered, right? And that's what we saw a lot during the March Madness, you know, that weight room video and stuff is we were all empowered because we got so much support and so much love, but also we all banded together and we were like, hey, this is, you know, we have a right to make change. We have a right to use our voice in this.
00:27:55
Speaker
And so now we're seeing way more and more student athletes all across the country being like, hey, this is my name and likeness, it's what I, you know, I wanna protect it, this is mine, I deserve this, I deserve a student table to talk about my life, you know, my experience as a student athlete, and to then come together and be like, you know, not only just banding together, but being an empowered group of student athletes with one common mission, fighting for the same goal, is we're gonna be the most, you know, strong, powerful force, I think, in a very long time.
00:28:25
Speaker
And within this next year isn't even amazing, but even just the past things we've been doing has been beautiful to see. Now, I want to shift to experience that you've had with NIL, but also the transfer portal, because you've used the transfer portal. We've seen a lot of athletes use it as basically an annual free agency opportunity to see what their value could be. And that's what NIL has become for the most part.
00:28:53
Speaker
You do real nil as well which is awesome the brands the endorsements but let's face it nil is. Donors laundering money to you know be associated with their school and attract players to transfer
00:29:07
Speaker
And we've heard stories of players getting offered X, going to a school because of that, and then getting paid .5 X instead of X, right? And so what are some, what happens in the portal once you go in there and not just based on your experiences, but other athletes, you know, you don't have to name names. What goes on in there for the athlete once you get in and join?
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah I mean I've been in the portal twice. First year was when I broke my leg at Texas and had to transfer and that was when there was no transfer rule or there wasn't the transfer rule that you know you could not play the next year and so I had to automatically sit. But in my second year transferring when I came to TCU I was in the draft portal and then also the
00:29:55
Speaker
NCAA portal at the same time, which is kind of unique. But yeah, you pretty much put your name in this, I guess, talk to compliance at your school and university, put your name, sign this waiver, and then within 24 hours or 48, depends on the school, you are in the portal, your name is there, and your content information is there if you want it, so that universities can reach out to you, can say, hey, we want to recruit you, blah, blah, blah, so and so, and so it's kind of just this big, I guess,
00:30:22
Speaker
pool of student athletes that you can go after, that you can throw money at. And so, yeah, my experience is much different. I did not get paid to come to TCU, right? I've gotten offers to transfer places that have been, you know, massive and just life changing. But I decided in my first year through NIL that I would never, I guess, never go to a school, never transfer, never change who I am because of a certain dollar amount, right?
00:30:48
Speaker
My basketball journey is something that I just want to be proud of and look back as like, I worked as hard as I can, I did something amazing, and I didn't just get bought out to go somewhere. But again, every student out there's journey is different and there's no disrespect or hate to anybody that chooses differently, right? It's just a different experience that everyone goes through with NIL and different opportunities we have. And everyone's just trying to make as much as we can in these four or five years that we have so that when we do GoPro or if, you know, if we even have the chance,
00:31:13
Speaker
that we can have this money that was saved for the rest of our lives and not have to, you know, to continue playing our sport for years and years and years and beating up on our bodies that we've taken advantage of at NIL as much as we can.
Ethical Navigation of NIL Deals
00:31:24
Speaker
Who's making those offers? The coaches? It's usually collectives. And so, yeah. So are the coaches making, sorry, are coaches making an intro to a collective and then you talk to the collective and they say, hey, this is what we could do for you?
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll usually talk to agents and stuff, right? Agents will hit you up, and they don't have to be your agent, it can just be any random agent. And, you know, an NIL agent, we talk about that too, it's like, it could be anyone. So literally anyone could just hit you up, representing a collective. And the collective that I worked with was some school, because I was interested to be like, all right, what is the ins and outs of me? If I transfer to the school, right, and just say, hey, I'm transferring and wear the jersey one time,
00:32:06
Speaker
I get this lump sum of money. And so I talked about it and stuff, but the coach had said she knew whatever. She was kind of in it, but she had just been told by the collective, hey, we're gonna go out and get as many star players as possible. And it was a new coach, and we're gonna get as many athletes as possible and get them as much money with this whatever sum that these donors have given us, this amount of money. And so yeah, that's how I kind of got that offer, but I was like,
00:32:34
Speaker
It's not for me. I don't want to transfer here anyways. Well, I love it. I love that money is not the number one thing. It's a byproduct of your passion. And so with your passion to be the best ball player you can be and be the best entrepreneur you can be, money becomes a byproduct. And you're still making great money, but it's not what drives you. And I love that about you. And I know that's real.
00:33:00
Speaker
And it's just interesting to me because the reality is the NCAA only has a few roles about NIL and one of them is that you cannot induce a recruit or a prospective student athlete is the term.
00:33:13
Speaker
to come to your institution using NIL, but yet that's what NIL, the majority of it has become. And in some cases, coaches we know are actually talking number amounts with athletes. And in other cases, there's a workaround like you described. And I was just curious what your experience had been. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard, I've heard from different stories from like, you know, friends, friends in the NCAA and stuff. And, and it's very kind of hush hush right now because it is things that, you know, rules are getting broken and there are,
00:33:40
Speaker
earn a lot of restrictions on it at all, right? It's very just a fine, very blurred lines of, okay, we can do this and donors can do this and this. And so right now, I mean, you know, I say for student athletes, take advantage of everything as much as you can, right? Like get your bag in a sense, but be very, very, very careful. And, you know, in the behind the scenes, right? We're trying to just make it to where student athletes are not getting to take advantage of anymore. If you do transfer somewhere and you do deserve an amount of money that you're going to get paid to go there,
00:34:06
Speaker
right, like you need to see that money. And then also when you go there, make sure that you're not getting taken advantage of, right, you're not just gonna get pushed aside or.
00:34:13
Speaker
immediately thrown out. And so that kind of work is done behind the scenes, but also with all these athletes uniting together and being like, hey, this could happen to any of us. This is a real issue going on. My friends are going to take advantage of whatever. These are real issues that are happening now. And so fighting for the change and making these laws so this stuff doesn't happen anymore and there aren't any blurred lines and rules broken. And two points on that. Number one, they could
00:34:43
Speaker
not get paid what they were promised. We're seeing that happen. But number two, they could sign a contract that locks them in with caps on how much they get paid per autograph for a certain amount of autographs and not be able to increase that rate until they've reached that cap. And we're seeing these contracts have
00:35:04
Speaker
perpetuity clauses and other types of clauses that are capping athletes because they're giving them an upfront amount of money.
Impact of NIL on Revenue Sports
00:35:14
Speaker
So, you know, there's multiple ways that you as an athlete and I'm talking athletes and parents could be taken advantage of.
00:35:22
Speaker
with an NIL deal that you're being offered, whether you're in the portal or you're a high school athlete that you need to be aware of. And then ironically, another point I want to make is the main athletes that are getting collective money are women's basketball, men's basketball, and football, which happened to be the same damages classes highlighted by
00:35:43
Speaker
Wilkin, the judge in the House versus NCAA case. And the reason is, is because that's where most, almost all of the media revenue comes from. And the reality is that you can't win without talent. And right now the donors are paying the bill talent. I'm quoting Jay Billis from episode one. So, you know, the sustainability of this is definitely in question.
00:36:11
Speaker
right right yeah I mean I mean you know the the biggest thing you got to think about right is that I feel like a lot of people would they know but they really don't keep it in the forefront of their mind is that the NCAA is a business right like this is a multi-billion dollar industry that student athletes are running and that we are that the
00:36:31
Speaker
you know, this machine of this massive organization across the whole country, one of the biggest, you know, obviously, amateur sports organization in the country, there's really no other that's making money like this. And so as a, you know, to my employment side, that's whatever you want to go into conversations about that, but that you have to remember that this is a multi, multi, multi-million dollar, if not billion dollar industry that we're not making a cent from, we're not seeing any money from. And so obviously when we're making rights,
00:36:59
Speaker
So there's a certain breakdown that is highlighted in the house for us since WWE lawsuit that I don't know if I can even say.
00:37:06
Speaker
But it's, you know, football first, right? They're the ones making money. They're the ones we see on, you know, this, you know, whatever, the bowl games and stuff. Those are the ones generating the most money for the NCAA. And then men's basketball and the women's basketball, which is amazing that we're there. I love that. But those are the three sports keeping everything afloat, right? And so where is, where's our check? And so a lot of student athletes are getting upset about it, right? Are getting angry and saying like, hey, you know, we're making you so much money. We're keeping these other sports alive too.
00:37:36
Speaker
And so, you know, how do we make it to where it's fair, right? Like it's only fair to, we go out every single day and we work this hard and we're, you know, on these screens getting 15 million viewers, right? Like where is our compensation from that? It's just not fair.
00:37:50
Speaker
Absolutely. And my prediction is this is the last March Madness where that revenue won't be shared.
Optimism for Future Changes in NCAA
00:37:57
Speaker
And so we're fighting the good fight together and we're fighting it in a way that can be a win-win-win for everyone, including the leaders in the schools, if it's done the right way. And that's what I love and I can go to bed at night knowing
00:38:10
Speaker
And I appreciate you, just your story. It was so awesome to hear you tell it again today. And for the people listening or watching to be able to really soak in like how you got to the point you are today where you're changing history. And so thank you so much for making time for us.
00:38:31
Speaker
And thank you for being such a big part of what we're building at athletes.org. Yeah, Jim, of course, thank you so much. And we've been, you know, you know, talking for a while in each other's lives. So thank you so much for what you've done. Seriously, like, you know, I will I'm now a part of AO and so proud to be. But, you know, I will fully back this and spread this message through you guys and with you guys for the rest of my life, because it is something that's important. So thank you for fighting the right fight. I really appreciate it. There's not a lot of people out there that are that are doing this. So thank you as well, Jim. I appreciate you.
00:39:00
Speaker
Amazing stuff from Sedona, so happy that she was able to make time for this interview, but also that she's making time for cases like House versus the NCAA, for causes like athletes.org to be a team rep. She doesn't have to do that. Sedona makes very good money with NIL and really is still a prospect at the professional level who's going to make more money playing women's basketball.
00:39:27
Speaker
but yet she wants to be a part of these conversations. And there's others that I know are listening or watching that want to be a part of these conversations. And so make sure you follow us on Instagram at nowitslegalpod.
00:39:41
Speaker
DM us if you or somebody you know should be on this show doing an interview about these topics. We want to have more conversations with everyone. And we're going to bring on college athletics leaders, whether it's coaches, ADs, commissioners, we're going to bring on parents of college athletes, current college athletes, former college athletes.
00:40:00
Speaker
We're going to bring on all kinds of folks who are stakeholders in this future of this wonderful industry of college athletics. And so share the podcast. Make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcasts. Just search Now It's Legal with Jim Cavall and you should be able to find it. You also can check us out on YouTube and subscribe there if you want to watch the show and watch me interact with our guests. Just search Now It's Legal with Jim Cavall.
00:40:26
Speaker
on YouTube. Thank you so much for listening and watching today. We'll be back with some really exciting episodes here each week with Now It's Legal.