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S1E5 - Now It's Legal with Jim Cavale - Jim Boeheim
116 Plays8 months ago
Hall of Famer Jim Boeheim is the former Head Coach of Syracuse University’s men’s basketball team and current Special Assistant to the Athletic Director at Syracuse. For 47 years, he was the Head Coach of the Orange who he led to 10 Big East Conference regular season championships, five Big East tournament championships and 34 NCAA tournament appearances — including five Final Four appearances. In 2003, his team beat Kansas with all-star Carmelo Anthony.
Jim joins Now It's Legal to discuss his long standing and successful college coaching career and his thoughts on where the future of college athletics is headed.
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About Now It's Legal
In July 2021, NIL forever changed the trajectory of college athletics. It’s been a long time coming as the NCAA has long needed changes like NIL, the transfer portal, revenue sharing and other benefits for college athletes. We introduce to you the Now It’s Legal podcast. Join us as we discuss the industry that holds the hearts of millions of fans who want to understand where its trajectory is heading. We are talking to those who are invested in and affected by NIL including: Former and current college athletes, presidents and head coaches, broadcasters and media personalities, investors and more. This is just the beginning of NIL and what it means for the future of college athletics.
Host Jim Cavale is a former college athlete and entrepreneur who has become an advocate for young athletes across the country. In 2017, he created the INFLCR app that allowed athletes to build their brand on social media, and in 2021, evolved into the NIL management technology for more than 100,000 athletes across 200 college athletic programs. INFLCR has since been acquired by sports tech titan, Teamworks.
In 2023, Jim founded Athletes.org which which is the players association for college athletes to negotiate the best terms for their college athletics experience. AO provides its member athletes with a free membership, empowering them with a voice, on demand support, and group licensing income in the same ways that professional league associations do for their member athletes.
Tune in to a new episode every Monday and join in on the conversation on Instagram with @nowitslegalpod and @jimcavale.
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Transcript
Introduction of Jim Boeheim and Athletes.org
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Now It's Legal. I'm your host, Jim Cavall. And listen, we have a really exciting guest on this episode. He's a Hall of Famer.
00:00:12
Speaker
He coached more than 40 years at Syracuse University, leading the Orange to a national championship in 2003. He's won Naismith Coach of the Year multiple times, and he's a member of the Hall of Fame. He also was an assistant coach for Team USA with Coach K, winning multiple gold medals.
Focus on College Athletics and NIL Issues
00:00:34
Speaker
And his name is Jim Boeheim, which you probably already know, but Jimmy Bee is a guy who has recently retired and yet is even more involved in college athletics than ever before. He is constantly thinking about and working on what we at athletes.org call the New Deal for college athletics.
00:00:57
Speaker
And so this conversation today is going to be all about how we got here and where we're going. It's going to be all about the problems that keep him up at night and that he wants to address. And of course, a lot of those problems are problems we're working on every day at AO. And it's exciting because Coach Boeheim joined our board when we launched last year. And so we get to talk to him quite frequently about the things that you're going to hear him transparently talk about on this episode.
00:01:27
Speaker
And so here it is, my interview with Jim Beyheim.
00:01:37
Speaker
All right, coach, first off, always great to talk to you. I know that you're starting a new segment of your life, not coaching after four plus decades of doing
NIL Financial Dynamics and Sustainability Concerns
00:01:49
Speaker
so. And, you know, as a Syracuse native, I've always looked up to you and respected your story over the past four or five decades, but I also have got to know you deeper in this new phase. And so for people listening, watching, what have you been up to? Because I know you're still very involved in college athletics.
00:02:07
Speaker
Well, you know, I go in the office every day at Syracuse, do stuff for the program for all the coaches, do stuff for the athletic department. Then I do ESPN games, you know, as kind of a recreational outlet. But my main concern is still with the college basketball games, college athletics. I'm the assistant to the athletic director. So it's just a horrible time right now that
00:02:35
Speaker
There's things that have to be figured out and we've gone from in just a couple short years from a couple hundred thousand dollars for a good basketball players to a million dollars for a good basketball player. That's crazy. I mean, we're talking about $10 million teams now that I don't see how we sustain that over a long period of time.
00:03:03
Speaker
But I know that as long as you allow this, it's going to happen. Just two or three years ago, people were talking about, well, they won't keep doing this. This won't work. They won't sustain this. And now they're at the 10 million mark from less than a million dollars for a team in basketball to 10.
Comparison to Professional Sports and Regulation Challenges
00:03:24
Speaker
It's 15 or 20 in football. So my main concern is how do we do something?
00:03:31
Speaker
about the NIL. I mean, I think it's great to revenue share with players. I think you try to figure that out. Um, but right now they're getting more than revenue share in some cases, a lot more than they would in revenue sharing. Why would a player want revenue sharing of few, few thousand dollars when he's getting a million and a half dollars to compete? So.
00:04:00
Speaker
How do we handle that? How do we do something about that? And it just comes down to, maybe it comes down to what professional sports is. Reunions and wage caps and salary caps and all that, I don't know. We're in professional sports without any rules right now.
00:04:30
Speaker
Well, I want to back up. I know that throughout your time as a coach, you've seen a lot of phases of college athletics.
Media Evolution and Leadership Anticipation in College Athletics
00:04:39
Speaker
I go back to the Sonny Vicaro documentary and the story of the Big East getting going, and ESPN getting going, and Nike getting into basketball. You kind of fast forward that, you live through that entire era as the leader of one of the premier programs in the country, and then you saw the era of media deal explosions.
00:05:01
Speaker
and conferences and realignment for conferences by schools to try to get the best media deal. And this boom is really how we got here. Ed O'Bannon beats the NCAA, kind of the writing on the wall that name, image, and likeness would happen. And then instead of getting in front of it, college athletics leaders kind of let the state governments and people outside of college athletics force it to happen without any structure.
00:05:30
Speaker
As you watched all that after living through the things you lived through in the 70s and 80s and 90s as a coach, as you watched the media revenue boom, and then you saw NIL come to fruition,
00:05:44
Speaker
Did you know, was there a point where before NIL even started, you were talking to people about like, we better get in front of this. Like, this could be something that gets out ahead of us that could really blow this thing up. Like, but did you see that coming?
Legal Hurdles in NIL Regulation Efforts
00:05:58
Speaker
Well, I think the NCAA tried to have a committee and they were together two years trying to figure out guidelines. They couldn't because the lawyers kept telling them that everything they came up with wasn't going to be good in court. A limit of money, get money after you get out of school.
00:06:14
Speaker
All those things would never have passed the court system Just like nothing else nothing can today There's nothing you can do that a player can't get a lawyer and go to court and say well You can't restrict me that way the Supreme Court has basically said that so even if we get revenue sharing Which might help it's not going to change the NIL part
00:06:41
Speaker
that's still there. You have to come up with a comprehensive plan to stop this. And as far as anticipating stuff, you knew once NIL came in and a player could get speaking engagements and stuff, there'd be no limit to it.
00:06:59
Speaker
You know, it's not, like the NCAA said, we'll make a rule limiting what a player can make to 50,000 or 25, 40, whatever that could not be done. You now can't even limit a speaking thing. It was going to be like a reasonable, but now you can pay somebody a million dollars to speak.
00:07:22
Speaker
someplace and it's legal. So I mean, it was easy to see this coming because coaches and fan bases want to win.
Disparity Between Coaches and Athletes' Earnings
00:07:38
Speaker
And once you let them in the house, that was the end of any reasonable amount of money being given to student athletes.
00:07:51
Speaker
And you have to remember 99% of the athletic programs break even or lose money every year. The problem we have is coaches making an outlandish amount of money, so that's how it gets kicked back to why aren't athletes getting money. Nobody's saying to pay field hockey players. Nobody's saying to pay soccer players in college, because there's no revenue there. When I started, I made $25,000 a year as a head coach here.
00:08:22
Speaker
Nobody said anything about paying players then. It's once coaches got that money and the billion dollar contract was out there, even though the billion dollar contract is really irrelevant. The money gets split up and it ends up going to the schools and the schools pay for all the other sports. And we have a great lacrosse program, two of them, and they're top five in the country. Well, they don't generate any money.
00:08:51
Speaker
whatever million dollars they have to spend, does that go away once you take all the money and give it to the revolutionary sports? How does this work? Nobody's explained it to me. Nobody's come up with a plan that I've seen that could work with this as long as you have the NIL involved.
Complexity of NIL Agreements and Regulation Challenges
00:09:15
Speaker
Even if NIL comes into the schools, it's still going to be
00:09:19
Speaker
you're going to race to get the best players. And then you're going to have to deal with Title IX. You can't give all the money to the football players, I don't think, or basketball players, just to the revenue sports, maybe. So, I mean, I think we're all hoping for some solution. And I've talked to all the
00:09:46
Speaker
people I know, all the smartest people I know, presidents and ATEs and outside of, you know, college and inside, nobody's given me an explanation. Well, this is what we could do. I haven't heard it. Maybe it's there that can be worked out and dug into, but if we don't find something to deal with NIL, I don't see
00:10:16
Speaker
any other plan that matters, whether it's revenue sharing, whether it's unionization. I don't know. I don't see it. I mean, somebody a lot smarter than me is going to have to figure that out. Well, there's a few things you said I want to touch on. The first one is,
00:10:38
Speaker
the rules were never set because there was nothing that could be defendable in court, which is the whole antitrust elephant in the room. You can't put caps on people in the American labor system without those folks agreeing to the caps, right? And that's what collective bargaining produces in pro sports. And that's how they have caps. Whatever's decided,
00:11:08
Speaker
with revenue sharing and how maybe all athletes get a little bit of money as a baseline, but the revenue producing athletes get the lion's share because they play sports that produce the revenue.
00:11:21
Speaker
The transfer rules that could now be set because it's tied to making money in a term of time you're committing to to make that money means you gotta stay at a school. All these things that could be fixes can only be done in a way that's defendable in court if the athletes agree to those things.
Potential Solutions for Revenue Sharing and NIL Agreements
00:11:43
Speaker
And one of the things inside of that solution that I just moderately described without going too far into detail is people have talked about NIL and the rights of NIL being a part of the revenue sharing agreement for the athlete, meaning that he or she, if they're revenue sharing with their school cannot also double dip.
00:12:07
Speaker
and do deals with collectives. Have you heard of that? And what do you think about that to address some of the things you brought up about your concern with NIL still being an issue? I'm open to everything. But when people start talking about a model like the NBA, say, pro athletes, where you're in the union, where the union basically stays the same, then 90% of the people in the union stay there year to year.
00:12:36
Speaker
There's new additions, but the main core of that union is together. College, you change every year. I mean, guys come in one year, they're gone. Guys come in two years, they're gone. How do you get an agreement with a group like that that's constantly changing every year?
00:12:58
Speaker
And if somebody comes in as a freshman, doesn't like the agreements that it's there, why doesn't he just get a lawyer and go to court and say, I had nothing to do with that. I want my full NIL. I don't want to be restricted in my NIL. I want to be able to get as much as I can. And of course, you still have the booster that's there that's going to say, well, we'll get this guy. Because now the boosters are used to putting the money in.
00:13:26
Speaker
They're doing that now. So if you limit that in some way, you're just open the doors to rampant. I mean, let's face it, there was cheating before.
Legality of NIL vs. Past Practices
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah, let's go to that real quick. So the name of the show is Now It's Legal, right? Like, you know, NIL, Now It's Legal. Let's go to that for a second. I think that it's interesting to think about the fact
00:13:52
Speaker
that at least some schools have had a guy or gal or three or four who have been doing this for a long time. And now it's just legal and allowed through collectives. How true is that? And from your experience, coaching as long as you have the stories you've heard about football and basketball, how much truth is in the fact that this has been going on for forever?
00:14:18
Speaker
Well, they caught people. I mean, many, many people have been caught doing this and were, you know, were punished in cases. So obviously it was going on. If you're in coaching and you're dealing with recruits, you'll get a situation every once in a while, well, I've been offered this in before, before an aisle. And, you know, you just walk away, you know, you just sit
00:14:47
Speaker
we're not we don't do that and uh and you walk away that i mean that happens it happened and i'm not throwing any schools under the bus but schools have been caught and you know in terms of that um it's it's yeah i mean that happened but it's still within today's world i mean everybody is going to get engaged because
00:15:17
Speaker
almost every school has one guy or two that, you know, made 200, $300 million and they can put up five, $10 million, you know, easy, or maybe just get three or four guys that put up a million each. And now you get four players and basketball. That's all you need. Yep. You get the right four players. You know, you're going to have a really good team.
00:15:45
Speaker
I think it's still possible with NIL today, you can have a good team, but you're going to have to be in the neighborhood of two million, two and a half million dollars, I think. I mean, you could do it without it. I mean, luckily you could find a way, unknown players, but then after a year, those good players are going to realize they can get money and they're going to go someplace else if you don't get it for them.
Impact of NIL and Transfer Portal on College Sports Dynamics
00:16:15
Speaker
I mean, that's where we are and nobody wants to be here, but that's where I don't see it changing. Honestly, I think no matter what we figure out, there's going to be some type of NIL going forward in the future, whether it's above board.
00:16:33
Speaker
or back to the old way. Back to the old way. Because, you know, schools are going to try to do that to get players. And some schools, and I've heard a lot of coaches, well, they're doing it. That school's doing it. They're doing it over there. So we're going to do it. And that happens. I mean, it was much more prevalent with football in some schools than others. But I know it happened a lot, probably more than I even know.
00:17:02
Speaker
I'm pretty naive about it. I know there were several situations where we got a recruit and a parent said, well, this cost me money coming to Syracuse. But I mean, obviously it wasn't tons of money as it is now. It's a lot of money. Back then, it might've been 25,000, who knows, 50, something like that. But
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, those deals were happening back then, but you could still be successful without doing those deals, but it was harder. And you feel right now as a coach, it's pretty hard to be successful without at least a two and a half million annual payroll, so to speak, for NIL. I think I'm being on the low end.
00:17:56
Speaker
I mean, I've heard this year for the first time in basketball, you've heard 10 over a million dollars a player and they were good players, but not in some cases, not great players, just good players. But this is the first time the last year, a little bit in this year. Now I'm hearing guards and forwards at the million dollar level. That's, I mean, that's such a.
00:18:25
Speaker
such a change in just really a couple of years. Those same players a couple of years ago was a couple of hundred thousand, five times that. And this is happening at the same time as the transfer portal, which is just kind of literally the perfect gasoline on a fire analogy. That's why it's happening. These players would not be leaving if they had to sit out, but we can't change that now because
00:18:53
Speaker
You can't. You just go to court and it'll be over with. But once you open up to transfers right away, now players that would never have sat out are going to transfer and play right away. So the money on top of the ability to play right away opened up 2,000 transfers.
00:19:22
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay, so for coaches today, you're already in a tough
Challenges Faced by Modern College Basketball Coaches
00:19:30
Speaker
job. It will always been tough to be a head coach at a power conference school, but now you've got to raise money. You've got a manager roster. You've got a coach and lead a coaching staff. It's a lot more complex to be a college basketball coach today than it's ever been before. Well, it's not even close.
00:19:50
Speaker
It's not even close to what it's been. I mean, it's always been a hard job. I mean, I think the life expectancy of a head coach at a Division I school is probably about four years, the average. But it's a tough job, but it's just so much harder today. And it's raising money, getting the money to the players, the right players, the money, figuring that all out. Yeah, I mean,
00:20:20
Speaker
It's extremely hard. It's still a great job because you get to the game itself. Once you get to September and the players are here and you start to coach, you still can have a good team and you can, you know, enjoy getting that team together, enjoy trying to win games. That part's still exactly the same. It's the months ahead of that when you lose players, because they got money someplace else or
00:20:50
Speaker
You have to go get somebody and get the money for the player to bring them in. And most schools are going to go on three, four guys, at least in the transfer portal and coming out, going out and coming in. So yeah, I mean, it's real difficult to be a college basketball coach right now. You have to get money and you have to pay the players period to start out with.
00:21:20
Speaker
then you get them in, then you got the fun part, you know, coaching. Absolutely. College basketball is in a good place, though.
Debate on Tournament Expansion and Team Inclusion
00:21:30
Speaker
I mean, viewership is still stellar. The tournament was great. A lot of people are talking about expanding it. And, you know, of course, that would expand the scope of revenue opportunity as well. What are your thoughts on expanding the tournament? Well, we do Dayton already. We already have a model.
00:21:50
Speaker
where we get four more teams in. Just do another Dayton, and now you get another four more teams in. Eight more teams in the pyramid, four more get in. You know, 10 plays this, and it's simple. And you do it at the site where the tournament is going to be. And so now the kids that win that tournament don't have to travel someplace, they're right there. And you know, if you look at this year's tournament, there was five bid stealers. So that means,
00:22:19
Speaker
five teams that would have been in the tournament, right? Got pushed out because of the bid dealers. So we know there was five legitimate teams. You can name whoever you want, but it would have been probably Seton Hall, St. John's, Pittsburgh, maybe Indiana State, maybe Oklahoma, you know, somebody. There have been five more teams. So they're quality teams. So by expanding to add eight teams, you're not diluting the tournament. You're
00:22:47
Speaker
bringing teams in that should have been in the tournament if it wasn't for bid-stealers. And it's not changing the model of the tournament. You just do the same thing you do in Dayton. Tuesday, Wednesday, well, you got your teams. You can do that once or you can do it twice. Whatever you really think. And at the end of that play-in, you'd have better teams than you did if you just had the original 64 teams. Because the teams coming in are gonna beat
00:23:16
Speaker
some of the automatics, they're going to be out. And some of the teams that stole a bit, they're going to get beat. So I think you should have an expansion. It will, there's always going to be somebody left out at the end of the day, but there's been expansions. People, coaches and people said we shouldn't expand when it was 16, then 24, then 48. They said, no, we can't expand. It'll ruin the tournament.
00:23:46
Speaker
Well, no, the tournament got better. 64, tournament got better. 68, tournament got better. Tournament's great. A little expansion is not gonna hurt it. There'll be an opportunity for a little bit more money. I don't think a lot with an expansion like that. But you'll get a few, look, everybody, when you're left out, there's gonna, at any level,
00:24:13
Speaker
But this year, if you look at teams that were left out, Seton Hall and St. John's, but they would have won games, I think, in the tournament. They were good teams. So those teams should be in the tournament. So I think we should expand it. You just do it the way you do it now. You don't have to change the dates. You don't have to change anything. You just have one more site. Simple.
00:24:36
Speaker
Well, we have expanded the college football playoff and talks about maybe even expanding it further. And that's going to add several games to the season for the teams that make it that far. And when you look at the football schedule and you look at some of the topics we've talked about earlier today with players and the fact that you've always said, even as a basketball coach of a power conference school, football is what brings most of the revenue,
Impact of Increased Football Games on Player Compensation
00:25:03
Speaker
right?
00:25:03
Speaker
The players are going to have an even more demanding year calendar. You've got extra games. You've got spring football starting almost right away after the season's over and workouts that go really through June.
00:25:21
Speaker
Do you think things like that are being talked about and thought about enough by leaders as they're looking at these topics of revenue sharing and benefits and these other things? Because it seems like that only speaks more into the need for us to structure all this. Well, there's no question that they're adding all that's money driven everything into to have a good playoff, a fair one, good teams in.
00:25:46
Speaker
but there's no talk by them of, okay, let's shorten the season. We're in these games on how, cause they're not going to shorten the season because 300, 200, 150 schools that play big football aren't going to get in the playoffs. So they need that money from that regular season to take care of, um, you know, their budgets. So, yeah, I mean, it's a lot of games. There's no question that football players
00:26:17
Speaker
Generate the money and whatever model is figured out The football players have to be taken care of and basketball men's basketball funds the NCAA So, you know, there's 200 million dollars goes right to the NCAA office Which I'm not sure how much we need them that much anymore But we need certainly to think about
00:26:43
Speaker
the players play, I remember when it was nine football games and they went to 10, there was a lot of talk.
Balancing Compensation Across Revenue and Non-Revenue Sports
00:26:49
Speaker
And now it's what, 12 plus. A conference championship plus another three or four games, depending on where you end up, if you make it to the playoff. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's getting to be, it's a lot of games. Somebody should be talking about that more than they are. And, uh, but again,
00:27:10
Speaker
At the end of the day, when this thing's figured out, revenue sharing, I'm all for revenue sharing. I'm all for football players getting money. Basketball players getting money. Anybody that's generating money. How can we do that and not slight other student athletes who work very hard, but there's no money generated. And I'm sure that's something the legal system can work out. But I mean, for years,
00:27:40
Speaker
The full scholarships only went to football basketball. The rest of the sports didn't get that and they never sued anybody because they didn't have any reason. They didn't have any money. You know, men's basketball coach, football coaches make more money than any women's coach because the money generated. So I'm sure the same thing would work out with players. But we have to figure that out. But knowing. There's still an IL going to be there and
00:28:10
Speaker
I don't know the answer to that.
Athlete Salary Caps and Legal Challenges
00:28:13
Speaker
Um, I hope it can be figured out. Uh, but once you start limiting how much a player makes, because if you have revenue sharing, that means each member of the football team gets an X amount of dollars, right? Whether it's the quarterback gets 200,000, the running back gets a hundred line to get 80, whatever it is.
00:28:35
Speaker
you're still gonna have to get them to your school. So somebody's gonna have an IEL for that player to get there. I think it's too late to just say, no, you're not getting any an IEL, you're just getting that because good quarterback's gonna get a lawyer and say, hey, what's going on here? They're setting my salary, I haven't even got there yet. So I don't know. I'm scared to death about it.
00:29:02
Speaker
I mean, a long time ago, the University of Chicago just decided they were top football team in the country, right? They decided we're not playing football anymore. You know what one of the most highly rated schools in the country is now academically? University of Chicago. Yeah. Is there any other presidents that are going to say, hey, what the heck are we doing here? Let's forget this stuff. I mean, it's got to be in the back of some president's mind.
00:29:33
Speaker
Well, we know they're starting to pay more attention to it. This is obviously only a part of their job, but they do make the decisions even over the commissioners who report to them. And, um, and the problem with that is once they get involved, they don't really know what they're dealing with. So you have a joint in the big 10. Yep. And that was a money deal and the president made the decision, but that was just a money deal. Nothing else.
00:29:59
Speaker
So just because the presidents are involved doesn't mean it's going to be the right decision or a good decision.
University Presidents' Financial Motivations vs. Athletic Interests
00:30:05
Speaker
Well, maybe the next interviewee I bring on the show as a president, maybe I'll get Kent on, you know, I think we have to do something with, I just, I think you're smart. I think there's a lot of people that are working on this thing. And what do we get? Where are we getting, you know, where are we getting to some,
00:30:29
Speaker
I mean, our chancellor is pretty smart. He wanted a 60 team league and everything will be balanced out. Well, nobody's going to go for that because the big 10 SEC are making tons of money. They're not going to say, well, no, we're going to give up all our money we're making and go into this thing. So yeah, I wish, I wish there was some solution. I know we're probably not going to figure it out today, but, uh,
00:30:58
Speaker
Maybe in the future we can, I don't know.
Urgency in Addressing NIL Issues
00:31:01
Speaker
Well, I appreciate you coming on and I think, you know, Hall of Fame career aside, the fact that you're now spending your time on this and, you know, obviously you've been a big help to us with athletes.org, with your board seat, being on ESPN, talking about this stuff from a media standpoint,
00:31:26
Speaker
being involved in the athletic department, you didn't have to do any of that. You're a living legend who is a Hall of Famer and you choose to try to give back to the industry that gave you so much opportunity. And for that, I'm grateful. I know a lot of other people are grateful as well. Well, I'm desperate to figure out how we can work this out.
00:31:49
Speaker
And I mean, I know I'm not going to do it, but I want to, it's players being involved now, which was new, that when five years ago, they would have laughed at you. Now players can be about, we can maybe work with them, but we're going to have to figure something out that's good for everybody. And it's going to take another year or two to do that, at least. And if we don't get it done in another year or two, I don't know where we're going to be.
00:32:19
Speaker
We're going to be in a real bad place, I think. Well, I'm committed to doing everything we can to not end up in a bad place. And I will, you have my commitment. I'll keep working on that every day with our team and our athletes. So thank you. I appreciate you, coach. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Jim. Amazing stuff from coach Beyheim. As always, he was transparent and candid.
00:32:44
Speaker
about a lot of key topics, a lot of big problems that need to be solved. Now this show, if you're a first time listener, is all about talking and really uncovering what is going on now in college athletics and challenging ourselves to think about what has to happen for the new deal of college athletics to emerge.
00:33:10
Speaker
And so whether it's athletes, parents, coaches, like Coach Boeheim, athletic directors, presidents, business people, working on this problem is something that a lot of people care about and are involved in. And we're going to continue to feature those folks on future episodes.
Conclusion and Social Media Engagement
00:33:29
Speaker
I want to encourage you to follow the podcast on Instagram at nowitslegalpod.com.
00:33:36
Speaker
Also, make sure you subscribe to the podcast, whether it's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify Podcasts, or YouTube, by just searching Now It's Legal with Jim Cavell. And at any time, send us a message, especially through DM on Instagram, once you follow us. Let us know what you think of the show.
00:33:53
Speaker
suggest guests. We'd love to have new guests on that are thoughtful from the viewer or listener's perspective. So, please, embrace what we're trying to do to get the word out about what's going on today in college sports and talk about the solutions that need to happen in the near future. Until next time, I'm Jim Cavall, and you've been listening to Now It's Legal.