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S1E3 - Sean Clifford - Now It's Legal with Jim Cavale
108 Plays9 months ago
Sean Clifford is a current QB for the NFL's Green Bay Packers and the former starting QB and team captain for the Penn State Nittany Lions. He completed his college career as Penn State's all-time leader in wins as a starting quarterback, as well as completion percentage, completions, passing yards, total yards, passing touchdowns and pass attempts. At the 2023 Rose Bowl, Sean's 88-yard touchdown pass became the longest passing touchdown in Rose Bowl game history.
Sean joins Now It's Legal to discuss his attempt, back in 2022, to start the first college union with the hope of improving the student-athlete experience for all Big Ten athletes by implementing benefits such as revenue sharing and medical care.
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About Now It's Legal
In July 2021, NIL forever changed the trajectory of college athletics. It’s been a long time coming as the NCAA has long needed changes like NIL, the transfer portal, revenue sharing and other benefits for college athletes. We introduce to you the Now It’s Legal podcast. Join us as we discuss the industry that holds the hearts of millions of fans who want to understand where its trajectory is heading. We are talking to those who are invested in and affected by NIL including: Former and current college athletes, presidents and head coaches, broadcasters and media personalities, investors and more. This is just the beginning of NIL and what it means for the future of college athletics.
Host Jim Cavale is a former college athlete and entrepreneur who has become an advocate for young athletes across the country. In 2017, he created the INFLCR app that allowed athletes to build their brand on social media, and in 2021, evolved into the NIL management technology for more than 100,000 athletes across 200 college athletic programs. INFLCR has since been acquired by sports tech titan, Teamworks.
In 2023, Jim founded Athletes.org which which is the players association for college athletes to negotiate the best terms for their college athletics experience. AO provides its member athletes with a free membership, empowering them with a voice, on demand support, and group licensing income in the same ways that professional league associations do for their member athletes.
Tune in to a new episode every Monday and join in on the conversation on Instagram with @nowitslegalpod and @jimcavale.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Now It's Legal'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Now It's Legal, where we talk about the future of college athletics with
00:00:08
Speaker
All the different stakeholders, athletes, coaches, athletic directors, commissioners, media folks, you name it.
The New Deal in College Athletics
00:00:16
Speaker
We want to talk about this as we see it evolve into what we call the New Deal at mycompanyathletes.org. Our team is constantly working on how can we get the stakeholders together to figure out the New Deal for college athletics now.
00:00:30
Speaker
The question we always ask ourselves and a lot of the people that we are talking to about that New Deal is, what is the cost of not figuring that New Deal out today versus waiting for courts to push the New Deal tomorrow? Now, as you think about this question, it's really good to talk about it with different stakeholders from different lenses because you learn something every time you do that.
Meet Sean Clifford: QB & Entrepreneur
00:01:00
Speaker
And this episode is with a guy who really has a unique lens. Sean Clifford is currently the backup quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. He's going into his second season in the National Football League after realizing his dream and getting drafted in the 2023 NFL Draft. Sean was a standout star quarterback at Penn State, one of the biggest programs in college football, one of the most storied traditions.
00:01:26
Speaker
And during his time there, NIL began and Sean capitalized on it, but he also built a business helping other athletes capitalize on NIL. He built his own agency with other students who really helped him build a company.
00:01:41
Speaker
that serves all kinds of athletes, all kinds of sports in doing NIL deals. And then on top of all that, Sean tried to organize Big Ten football players, starting with his teammates at Penn State, into what was looked at as a union and is very threatening to a lot of leaders in college athletics.
00:02:01
Speaker
He's going to talk about all this and I think it's really important as you listen to this interview for you to think about it from his perspective and the perspective of the athletes who are trying to figure out
00:02:14
Speaker
how all of these decisions around their collegiate athletics experience, from how many hours a week they're mandated to work out in practice, to how much revenue could be shared with them from the revenue they produce, to even knowing how much revenue they produce with their sport. There's all these things that they have not been included in. And when they are included, not only will those things be even better standards because you have the perspective of the athletes,
00:02:43
Speaker
But once the athletes are included in deciding the terms of the New Deal, all these lawsuits can go away.
00:02:53
Speaker
because now the athletes have agreed to a deal in principle with their school conference and the NCAA. Giving the NCAA the protection they're currently, as we speak, fighting for in DC. That's where we could go with the new deal in college athletics. In this interview with Sean Clifford, we'll give you a great lens from the athlete's perspective on that.
Sean Clifford's NIL Journey
00:03:18
Speaker
All right, Sean. So you're here at Final Four, first one.
00:03:24
Speaker
And not only are you going to your first games, but you're also going to be here because you're an advisor, investor with athletes.org, and our cause is near and dear to your heart, which we're going to get into today. It's a big part of your story. But where I want to start is your QB1 at Penn State, one of the most tradition-rich programs in the country. And you hear this NIL thing is going to be starting on July 1st, 2021.
00:03:53
Speaker
What's going through your head? What was that like? Well, it dates all the way back from me, actually, in 2020. I was actually in a class, creative advertising class, with a guy named Trevor Robinson. And in that class, our one task, so the project for the whole semester, was to recreate a brand. I wanted to go to the professor. I wanted to talk to him. So I did. And I said, hey.
00:04:16
Speaker
I love to do this project on the quote unquote Sean Clifford brand. I'm not trying to be cocky or arrogant or anything like that. I just really want to be prepared for what the future might hold with the NIL. Because if you remember 2020, they were kind of talking about COVID. It kind of pushed everything back in legislation, but they were having those discussions. So I just want to be ready and prepared. So we did the project. I got an A on the project. So Academia labeled it as a pretty, pretty solid, a solid project, solid brand.
00:04:45
Speaker
So I put that in the closet for a while, and then July 1st hits. I didn't call an agent. I didn't call my parents. I didn't call anybody. I called Trevor Robinson. I said, Trev, remember that project that we did in 2020? Let's pull it out of the closet.
00:04:58
Speaker
That was July 1st for me. I was so excited. I knew that the world was going to change for college athletics. I knew that we could honestly finally capitalize on things that we wanted to do. I was entrepreneurial in high school. I coached quarterbacks, younger quarterbacks as a
00:05:16
Speaker
Training program that we have side hustle. That's awesome So I was more I wasn't even excited as much for just making all the money like making money in an aisle I was excited. I could just be creative explore and do different things so I mean we did a plethora of things we did signings we did we did events I create my company out of it. I I Did a bunch of different things my brother, and I had a training house
00:05:40
Speaker
So it was just being able to be myself and that's what NIL really meant for me and that's what July 1st was so for. Well you know going back to your business you said start your company I think it's a pretty unique story because you were individually a big enough brand in college football at this time when NIL starts to go make money individually but you decided to start your own
00:06:09
Speaker
big of an opportunity at least as naturally as you do as QB1 at Penn State. So talk about Limitless, your company, where the idea came from to start it and
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah, so it was really, I had the decision to come back for my sixth year. And that was really where the conversations began. Because I had six months with NIL, first year of it. I was seeing a lot of success. Some of the other guys that I was helping out were as well. But for my sixth and final year, I wanted to do something different. Penn State was still trying to figure it out, as everybody was, with all the collectives and how the structure is going to be. Who's going to get paid? Who's not going to get paid?
00:06:56
Speaker
So I just wanted to be really prepared. Um, so made that decision to come back for the six, six year, best decision I ever made. Tough decision though. I mean, when you're watching kids pull a tire and they're 17 and I'm 20, 23 going to be 24, it's a big age yet. So for me, it took a little bit of time, but when I made that decision to come back, I never regret it because then.
00:07:21
Speaker
directly after my brother, Liam Clifford, who's a new place for Penn State right now, we went ahead and we started Little Sun IL. And it was solely off the fact that there's a lot of brand deals that I was getting and just deal flow in general, camp ideas, sponsorships, all these different things. But some of them just didn't fit my brand as much as I would hope.
00:07:40
Speaker
But I noticed that it might fit his brand or her brand or this group of athletes brands, especially at Penn State. So that's, that's where we just started. I just wanted a couple clients and really, I mean, one turned to three, three turned to 10. And then we were in the summer with a full team.
NIL's Broader Impact on Athletes
00:07:56
Speaker
We had over 50 clients and it was just mind boggling. We were operating actually out of, so my apartment, we had our, the common area.
00:08:05
Speaker
And we had these beautiful big glass doors and this office space. And so I went to the people, and I said, the only people on campus are athletes and international students in the summer at Penn State. So I said, hey, do you mind if I just use the space? I mean, people come in and out. I'm not trying to take it. I'm just saying, do you mind if I have people kind of moving around in this area? And they said, no, don't worry. We ended up changing our mailing address to them. They were giving me the mail when I came in the morning
00:08:32
Speaker
I go, in the morning, work, go to workouts, come back, work. We had athletes coming in the door, left and right. It was a who. But yeah, that was the conception of it. The cool part about NIL is all of the new muscles it got athletes to start using at such a young age. There's so many things that you have been able to do because of NIL, including building your own company.
00:08:57
Speaker
that will last well beyond you playing football. You playing football, obviously. You're still playing QB2 for the Packers. It's going into your second year. Congrats on the draft and solidifying yourself with such an amazing organization. But this muscle that athletes get to work with NIL, it's one they can use their whole lives after they're done playing. And one story I want to tell is you came down
00:09:27
Speaker
hours down the road Sophie who leads our marketing and athletes.org is here today coordinating the shoot is a Penn State grad and her and a bunch of other Penn State grads came down and went on to the lake at Lake Martin and then we went and watched Penn State
00:09:49
Speaker
Of course, that was the second year in a row you played Auburn. Yeah, 2-0. 28-20 up there. I forget what it was, but somebody on Twitter was running them out. And I don't really get into it on Twitter, but somebody was running it even after the second win. So all I just put, I quote tweeted and I said 2-0. Yeah. But yeah, that one was fun. So the reason I bring up that game is
00:10:12
Speaker
you and I were texting before the game and we were maybe gonna meet up and we were working around all the travel of you guys from State College to Auburn. And then we ended up seeing each other at the game, on the field afterwards. And then I'll never forget the next morning, I had stayed in Auburn with my friends and we went out and had a good time. And I get up the next morning and you send me a picture and it says back at it. And you're in the film room
00:10:40
Speaker
at Lash, right? That's the football facility at Penn State. And you're in the film room and you're juggling limitless your company and some of the stuff that you have to get done in your off time while also looking at film, getting ready for the next game, even though you just had a big win against Auburn. And I was like, wow, you know, like what a new, beautiful situation college athletes are going to be able to have because of that eye out. So like, what was it like
00:11:14
Speaker
It got tough sometimes.
00:11:15
Speaker
But I'm just not a big, just my cup of tea. I'm not a big video game guy. I don't really go out that much. And I just really enjoy business. I enjoy having conversations with people. I enjoy having a nice time block schedule where I can meet with CEOs at Fortune 500 companies and have great conversations and learn their businesses, talk about mine. And really, at such a young age, what NIL gave me was the opportunity to step in.
00:11:45
Speaker
And that's what I was so excited about. Being able to, I've always seen all the podcasts, I see Mark Cuban, I see Michael Rubin, I see you and all these great fantastic business owners. And I wanted to be there. And before NIL, it was quite literally illegal.
00:12:05
Speaker
being able to jump into that space and really start to dive into different, different ideas, different concepts, talking. And that was another thing with Lemuelus. That was so much fun. Even if it wasn't a brand deal or something that we were doing specifically, it was so much fun to hear athletes talk about their dreams and their aspirations. And then as I developed more, you know, strategies and skills myself, I could then help younger kids.
00:12:31
Speaker
create a business or create a brand or do something outside their comfort zone. And that's, I just fell in love with it. I mean, I still love the show. Right. So with that, we had our first run in about four years before NIL starts. You and I meet, coach Franklin brings me in.
00:12:57
Speaker
and I meet you, I meet Will Levis, I meet a bunch of the guys, Garrett Taylor, I still get in touch with him, love that guy, GT shout out, he's down in South Florida killing it. But, you know, I meet all you guys and like most team talks, there were a lot of athletes lining up after wanting to ask questions and when we got a chance to talk, that was the biggest thing that I mentioned in my speech to the team, that residents
00:13:29
Speaker
will answer my DMs, people will respond to my emails, people will take my calls that might not ordinarily do that and then you took action on it. So do you feel like you started, you already said in 2020 you started thinking about NIL in that class, but were you, you felt prepared when NIL started, you were already working those muscles I'm talking about. Always, I mean I was always right and I think it
00:13:53
Speaker
It comes a little bit from my parents. I mean, they, they always just drove work ethic for me. So I was always looking to find new ways to be innovative for myself. And I mean, it goes back all the way to 2017. The minute that I stepped in, one of the, the, the best things I ever heard, um, Andrew Nelson, uh, left half of Penn State at the time, captain, I was just a young scrawny freshmen. First, first days that we walked in the building, we had a player panel and it was just the play.
00:14:23
Speaker
Penn State captains and he said he talked about you know he had so many injuries in his career and he's a great player but his injury kind of injured fatigue got him and but he said the one thing that he committed to at the very beginning of his career was having no regrets and he spoke on that and for some reason I mean so many people said group summit so so many great things but that always resonated with me
00:14:48
Speaker
And so from then on out, I just made the decision that I'm going to never have a regret. I just need to look beyond one year, 10 years, look at myself 30 years down the line and say,
00:15:01
Speaker
Is this something that you want to want to do, be proud of? And if, and that's kind of how I've always lived my life. So going back to your point in 2017, I was saying, okay, how can I get involved? How can I get involved? Not only for football, but also outside get involved with the donors, things that I would do. Like when I was starting to in 2019, my first year after games, I would try to stay back and go, go to the president suite and try to find different people, shake hands, be able to talk to people. Cause I knew that.
00:15:29
Speaker
I might not know it now, but I knew that eventually it would come down the line to help myself, my family, and also my network of people. So always looking to be innovative. Well, I remember, you know, one thing that I loved talking to athletes about when I was going around speaking to teams is being ready for the moment. Right. Now we're here at March Madness. Um, the women's tournament happened last night and it's crazy games. Um, obviously tonight we have some big
00:15:57
Speaker
those athletes are in a moment that will live in history forever. They'll always be able to say they were in the final four. They'll always be able to talk about the experience of making it this far. One of those teams will have a group of athletes who have a ring. But while all that's going on, you have athletes like DJ Burns. And he was ready for this run at the 11 seed.
00:16:22
Speaker
much on social, right? But even before NIL, there was an opportunity for athletes to be ready for the moment. And you are a story of that. Everything we've talked about so far, you were ready for NIL to begin because you were already networking, you were already using social to connect with people, you were already using social to tell your story, and you were even studying it in class and you sowed oats of entrepreneurship as a teenager in different ways on your own and through your parents. So that stuff's amazing.
00:16:52
Speaker
You took the moment even further. The reality is, just like O'Bannon, beating the NCAA was writing on the wall for NIL.
Legal Challenges and Collective Movements
00:17:01
Speaker
There are a lot of new cases, starting with Alston, which the NCAA lost 9-0 in the Supreme Court, all about the antitrust violations of the NCAA and the capping that they're doing of what athletes can get. And more cases like House, Johnson,
00:17:19
Speaker
have began to emerge. And it's not just about NIL. It's about actually sharing revenue with the players, not all players, but with the athletes that produce it, which you were one of those athletes at Penn State. And so what ended up happening first was collectives emerged. Collectives emerged because the most important thing that teams need is talent. And so we can't pay players directly to come to our schools.
00:17:55
Speaker
emerging and how are you ready and responsive to that whole situation. And I know you kind of came in on the front end. So it's gotten even bigger, the collective dollars since you left, but talk about the collectives and the portal and how all that works. Yeah. I mean, it was so fresh for me. I mean, I was on the forefront of it because it's
00:18:24
Speaker
athlete at Penn State at the time just because it's the quarterback position it comes with the territory and whether I liked it or I didn't I kind of had to embrace it so with that I got so many great conversations with Pat Kraft and Sandy Barber and and coach Franklin and really the list goes on and on all the Penn State people that I had conversations with and then the collective started to be able to form and
00:18:54
Speaker
work with the collective and I could learn from other athletes, have more case studies so that way I can give more information to the
00:19:03
Speaker
what's really happening. I know that we want to, you're thinking about implementing this, let's think about trying to go a different way. And that's really evolved now for me, not only at Penn State, but now I've been able to talk to so many ADs and have so many conversations across the country with coaches that used to coach me or former players who are now getting into coaching. They're always asking me, hey, what's your opinion on this? What's your opinion on that?
00:19:27
Speaker
I always, I always just go back to those, those original case studies that we were having conversations with early and often at an IEL, because if I go back and I look through, I do this every once in a while, I'll go back and look through the old files of like the beginning stages of the company. And so many things resonate still to this day. I know that there's so much new and Paris.org obviously, and just so, so many new things, but some of the very, very core concepts that we were talking about in July 2nd of 2021, and then January of 2023,
00:19:58
Speaker
when the company was kind of being formed, those are still great docs. I love reading through it. And just the ideas, when I'm talking to Jair Brown in place for the San Francisco 49ers, we're talking about great ideas to go back to Trenton and really help his community. And you just see all the different ideas and concepts that all these athletes had. It's really, I mean, it's cool. It really is. On the other side of it, though, is, you know,
00:20:28
Speaker
back in your home community to help them out, all of it. It's beautiful. And there's another side of NIL, and it's great in one sense, but it has some issues in another sense. And that other side of NIL is the collective-driven NIL deals that are made to induce young people to make decisions to go to a certain school. It's become, hey, what can you pay me? And it's pay for play. And it's great, from one sense of it, because $16 billion
00:21:00
Speaker
conference football athletes, and they should be getting paid. But the problem is it's not coming directly from the school. There's no structure. You don't know what offers real and what offers not. If you take an offer as an athlete, you might not even get what you've been offered if you go transfer to another school for $500,000. Who says they're even going to pay the $500,000? And obviously, it's created a lack of continuity at the team level, where when you were there, you had guys that you played together for three, four years.
Team Dynamics in the NIL Era
00:21:28
Speaker
That is almost gone now in college sports because you also have the portal and this collective driven NIL recruiting inducement happening at the same time. So what are your thoughts on all that? It's tough because I also go all the way back to when I was 10 years old, when I was 12 and I was, I mean, I was a Notre Dame fan early. And the beauty of college sports is the affinity to the school.
00:21:54
Speaker
the love, the passion that the athletes bring because we are Penn State or the Fighting Irish or the USC Trojans. I see Caleb Williams holding up the sword and throwing up the peace sign. Those are
00:22:11
Speaker
grew up loving I remember creating just random story but I was one of the reasons that I you know wanted to play ball was my dad got me to two camp tickets for me and my best friend at the time and his dad they kind of surprised us on Christmas flew us out to the Rose Bowl we had a Steve Clarkson throwing passing academy was my first ever like when I ever done a play quarterback specific I fell in love with the game there and then of course I
00:22:40
Speaker
My last game in college football is at the Rose Bowl playing and I still get goosebumps to the stage because it was so special. And that's what I sometimes fear when we talk about the new era is that fan base going to stay the same with all these players getting paid. I just hope that that trust
00:23:03
Speaker
athletes is still there because we really do love our schools but sometimes you just have to make the decision to kind of jump around because it's huge opportunities for these kids. I mean the opportunity to come from wherever they come from right, financial backgrounds, economics, whatever it might be and have that jump and have that opportunity to get in the transfer portal and really explore
00:23:28
Speaker
So it's a mixed bag because that old college football, college sports fan in me wants it to stay the same, but also I just see, I mean, it's changing and we need to adapt as well. So I mean, that's why athletes.org exists because really there's an opportunity for a win-win, right?
00:24:01
Speaker
with the conference deals. And it is a $16 billion elephant in the room. It's Jeffrey Kessler, the lead litigator against the incident in the house case called it.
00:24:18
Speaker
structure with a minimum salary and a maximum and with terms that also require an athlete to stay for a certain amount of years which would help create more loyalty to the program and also I think
00:24:48
Speaker
And also to the fans, let's remember that when a coach wins in the second round of March Madness with his mid-major team and makes the sweet 16 and then takes a big job the next day with a major program, we celebrate that. Why are we not celebrating an athlete who was recruited as a three star and went to a mid-major football program and played really well and got a great offer to go play at Penn State?
00:25:14
Speaker
a small school his whole time just because of who he was as an 18-year-old? No, he developed more and now he can move up. I think it's also telling the story, not forgetting that mid-major. The mid-major is the one that took the chance on that guy.
00:25:27
Speaker
The mid-major gave him or her the opportunity to take the next step. So it's celebrating those schools that are doing so well of finding talent and being able to really educate, teach, and then be able to grow that talent.
Towards a Players' Association?
00:25:41
Speaker
And then taking that next step because there is, I mean, it's a difference at Penn State when you're playing in front of 110,000 people. I mean, I got the blessing to be able to experience that.
00:25:53
Speaker
Jair Brown, I said it earlier, he was a JUCO guy and we talk about his JUCO experience all the time because that school, that university was so important and so pivotal for him because the coaches that brought him up and why not celebrate that whole journey instead of clowning somebody or talking about how, oh, it's not right, it's not fair to that school.
00:26:19
Speaker
And that's what I think we really need to be more aggressive to talk about that kind of stuff. Absolutely. And also, I mean, the name of this show is Now It's Legal, which has a lot of different meanings. But with NIL, the donor-driven side with collective
00:26:38
Speaker
So let's acknowledge that too. All right, so let's go into being ready for the moment again. And for you, you were going into, you decided to come back. You're making money with NIL as QB1 at Penn State. You're making money with a business now that's helping athletes with their NIL deals. And you're going to be QB1 coming back to Penn State, a top five preseason ranked program. And in addition to all that,
00:27:07
Speaker
you start taking an idea that came to you for a union for big 10 football players that would start at Penn State and working on that. You added that to your plate because of this moment in time we're in and a lot of the stuff that we're working on two years later at athletes.org, you were working on it in the spring and summer of 2022. So with all this, I just got to uncover what was really going on. At the end of the day,
00:27:39
Speaker
to see what the business of sports was like and I just saw the opportunity to not necessarily unionize off right away but more so grab an association be able to bring players to the table and just have conversations and the reason the one of the stories that hit really really close to home for me if you remember the Virginia shooting and those kids on that bus my brother plays on the same team as me
00:28:08
Speaker
And I thought long and hard that day, it happened and then we played the game and we won. And I just remember sitting on the bus just thinking about the Virginia community and all that they were going through at that time. And it just hit me with my brother on the bus. I mean, he's sitting right next to me. And if that would happen at Penn State, how devastating that would be for myself, my family. It was devastating just to hear it.
00:28:35
Speaker
So we go in the next day and to no fault on his own, coach Franklin, we're in a leadership council meeting, which we do every Sunday after the game, just kind of review. We're talking about next week, how we're going to, how we're going to go about supporting Virginia and coach Franklin and talk to some of the coaches and everything. And they were trying to get some ideas around, but I was realizing, I'm like, it's not really on him.
00:29:01
Speaker
of NCAA, of college football, we should have a mechanism to be able to have these conversations. And maybe have a sticker on helmet with a message that's unified. That could potentially support and raise money or awareness and be able to take that step but we've done. And that was so critical in my mind early that we need to have some sort
00:29:29
Speaker
and have these conversations so that's really where you know I was addressed in the summer of 2022 had some conversations with a guy about the association being able to put that together and that's really where it began. So you you decide to meet with your fellow leaders for the
00:29:57
Speaker
clarify it wasn't necessarily unionization because unionization is not even really possible at this point and I know that we've seen Dartmouth men's basketball team recently vote to unionize but full unionization with collective bargaining and being a collective bargaining unit there are ramifications that come with college athletes number one they're not employees number two if college athletes were in
00:30:25
Speaker
it's questionable who they would be employees of and based on who their employer would be there might be laws against them unionizing because of you know
00:30:41
Speaker
We have these together. And let things evolve as they evolve.
Challenges in Athlete Unionization
00:30:45
Speaker
And so you start with your team. And what was it like talking about it with your teammates and seeing the interest in buying there? It was automatic. I mean, I started with the captains. I brought all the captains in. I said, hey, guys, this is critical. And I'll explain why. And we talked and talked and talked about the pros and the cons. We went through the lists. And really, at the end of the day, we just saw that it was necessary.
00:31:11
Speaker
And we thought that I had an older captain room. Those guys in that room are near and dear to my heart. Joey Porter, Jr. Joey was close. He was the leadership guy. But Joey Porter was in there. Jair Brown again. Jonathan Sutherland was a four-year captain with me. Chris Stoll. I mean, the list goes on and on.
00:31:31
Speaker
fantastic men in that room that were making these decisions but we had those conversations we talked and talked and talked and finally we said we should probably bring this to the team because and you know coach Franklin and I had a long discussion about how this went down but we ended up bringing it to the team in the team meeting with no coaches around and
00:31:55
Speaker
everybody was in agreement we should start a chapter of at least an association here and funny story one of our strength coaches walked in and he was like he was like what is going on there's what is it like union meeting or whatever and long story short coach franken called me about 10 minutes later and was like are you kidding me what is going on yada yada but at the end of the day
00:32:20
Speaker
put all that aside, he was supportive. And Pat Kraft was, too. Yeah, everybody was, because now he wanted me to go about a little different. He would have rather known, because he felt a little bit hurt on the trust factor, because I didn't go and tell him right away. And I told him, I swear, it was not because I didn't trust you. It was because I knew that this was a player's decision first. And then I knew that if we came together and said, hey, the players would really like to have some support,
00:32:50
Speaker
He was bought in right away because he knows that at the end of the day we need to come together. So, Coach Franklin, Pat Crafts, even Kevin Warren, we had all those people in. And then Commissioner of the Big Ten. Yes, we obviously know the Bears. So, my rival. Sorry Kevin.
00:33:12
Speaker
And it wasn't this polarizing union, us versus them, we're going to take everybody down. It was more of, hey, this is a model here at Penn State football that the other programs in the Big 10 could follow. And you started to put messaging around it and prepare to talk about it in a very positive manner that summer at Big 10 Media Days. We even saw the reporter
00:33:42
Speaker
And then, unfortunately, some things leaked and it put Kevin Warren in a really tough position.
00:33:51
Speaker
And big time media days that summer ended up being you guys defusing anything going on. Yeah, and it was a huge bummer because at the end of the day, we had made so many strikes. We were so close. Kevin and I were literally having conversations of getting up on the stage and talking about this openly and having this open dialogue. But some things got leaked and I got pinned quickly. I mean, if you look up Sean Clifford Union, you can find the whole story. He would pin me as a union leader right away and that wasn't the
00:34:22
Speaker
You understand. I do now. You understand what we first talked about here later. I understand. It was so crazy, but what it proved to me was that we are so close. Because it wasn't with that group, sadly, and we are part of
Athlete Advocacy and Future Ventures
00:34:41
Speaker
the story. That's what I love to be able to say. Absolutely. That whole team, that buy-in, we didn't go through with it that year.
00:34:48
Speaker
It was, it was a thing about focus, right? Do we want to, we have a big year in front of us. We just have to have a little bit more focus. And once that lead came out, it kind of just had, we had to defuse the situation, but now we're on the, we're on the threat, like pressing the button. And we're so close. We're so close in 22, 23. And now we're, I mean, I can taste it. It's just crazy that the, the, the feelings that I get around AO, the, the, the group that we have and, and really it goes back. I was thinking about it this morning when we were going to have a conversation.
00:35:18
Speaker
And who better to run it than you and Co. Because you, from a business perspective, know the athlete side and know the business side and how to grow and succeed in the business world. And then Co., I mean, where do you start with his resume? Just say the list goes on and on. I mean, professor, Ivy League grad, nine-year vet. I mean, the man just breeds excellence. And that's the thing about
00:35:44
Speaker
when I heard and when you brought this to me of this idea of hey we're gonna go all in on this I said who better let's let's do this like because we were so close early and now let's just finish it well it's a
00:36:01
Speaker
over a year ago. You came to Birmingham and went to a TI concert. We met DJ from our team and we sat down in the office and just spent a half day talking about all this stuff.
00:36:20
Speaker
in 2022 and why it needs to happen and how it doesn't have to start as a union. And I showed you what we had started to work on with AO. And you were like, this is it. Like, I want to be a part of this. Of course, you're two months before the NFL draft. You end up being drafted by the Packers two months later and, you know, go through your first season and you've been an investor in our seed round for athletes, Inc.
00:36:47
Speaker
You've brought in other investors, you've Will Levis, and you are not only both investors, but you started your own investment firm together, which I want to talk about in a second. But this has been something you can say, you know what, while I'm doing what I'm doing with Limitless still, and as a Green Bay Packer,
00:37:05
Speaker
I want to still be a part of this movement, and AO is a way for me to do that. That, for me, was very affirming, so I appreciate that and the belief you have in what we're doing. And being here today, we've got our board meeting here right after this interview's over, and you're going to be in on it today. So talking about fourth and one ventures and some of the outlook you have for your business career, so to speak, explain what that is and just
00:37:42
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, helping is sales. And if I can help and support other athletes, other entrepreneurs, other people similar to me and get them to places that I want to go, you know, bring everybody together and have those conversations, it's selling myself as well. It's being able to move the needle and to make money and to have fun and be competitive because that's really, I mean, that's the beauty of this country.
00:38:10
Speaker
that you have to be able to be aggressive and have a driven mindset to be able to attack every day because that's what it's all about. I would rather wake up at 6 a.m. with a time block schedule that I'm not even a miss a beat and the minute that I hit my head every single night I know that I put everything I had into it every single day.
00:38:37
Speaker
with what Levis and I started with painting them in Dallas, Texas, just being able to talk to other founders and create a portfolio of different companies to then bring other athletes together and be able to push the message and vet these companies, have shark tanks, and really have conversations about the companies and learn about the stories of all these different entrepreneurs because everyone has a story at the end of the day.
00:39:04
Speaker
So for me, I guess it's, I don't really know and I'm, and I'm okay with that. You know, I enjoy just the process. I enjoy taking it every single day, day by day, step by step. And I know that, you know, when I lay my head down on the pillow every night, I'm pretty, pretty proud of what I'm doing, but I'm even more proud of what my community, the people around me are doing. So.
00:39:28
Speaker
I could, we could talk for hours. You have, as a guy, just getting going in his mid 20s, you have a bright future and your attitude that you just said right there is why, right? You're on offense every day. It's fun to watch you. I want to see you on offense on the field. Oh, I know. Very soon at Lambo. And I'm just really- Precisely coming at you soon. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm really, really happy we can make the time today.
Conclusion and Teaser
00:39:52
Speaker
And I'm really excited for everybody to hear what we talk about. So thank you. Thanks, Jim.
00:39:58
Speaker
Amazing stuff with Sean and we had so much fun at the Final Four going to the games, went to a bunch of parties together. He got to meet a lot of people that work in the industry who were there, of course, Final Four as a gathering for the industry. Spent a lot of time with his father-in-law as well, which was really cool.
00:40:16
Speaker
and just a really great time talking about this topic with him. So hopefully you enjoyed it. I want to encourage you to follow the podcast. And the best place, of course, is subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
00:40:32
Speaker
search Now It's Legal with Jim Cavell. You can do the same thing on Spotify podcasts. You can also follow us on Instagram. A lot of great clips that can give you a preview of the next episode coming out. Now It's Legal Pod is where you find us on Instagram. So just
00:40:51
Speaker
Really, you know, make sure you're engaged with this show. If you have ideas for guests that we should bring on, please send us a DM through Instagram. We'd love to hear who you think we should bring. Maybe it's you. And you also can subscribe on our YouTube channel where we take the video from this show.
00:41:09
Speaker
and you can watch the interaction between the guests and I. It's also available on Apple Podcast, now shows videos as well. So hopefully you enjoyed this episode. Share it with your friends, share it on social, engage with us by subscribing to the podcast, subscribing on YouTube, following us on Instagram. And we have some really exciting guests coming next. And so stay tuned for more, Now It's Legal.