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S1E6 - Neal Brown - Now It's Legal with Jim Cavale
101 Plays8 months ago
Neal Brown is a former college football player and is now serving his sixth year as Head Coach of West Virginia University's football team. From 2015 - 2018, he was the Head Coach at Troy University and has previously been the Offensive Coordinator at Troy, Texas Tech University and the University of Kentucky.
Neal joins Now It’s Legal to discuss West Virginia University’s current recruiting formula and what leaders need to do now to prepare for the future system of college athletics.
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About Now It's Legal
In July 2021, NIL forever changed the trajectory of college athletics. It’s been a long time coming as the NCAA has long needed changes like NIL, the transfer portal, revenue sharing and other benefits for college athletes. We introduce to you the Now It’s Legal podcast. Join us as we discuss the industry that holds the hearts of millions of fans who want to understand where its trajectory is heading. We are talking to those who are invested in and affected by NIL including: Former and current college athletes, presidents and head coaches, broadcasters and media personalities, investors and more. This is just the beginning of NIL and what it means for the future of college athletics.
Host Jim Cavale is a former college athlete and entrepreneur who has become an advocate for young athletes across the country. In 2017, he created the INFLCR app that allowed athletes to build their brand on social media, and in 2021, evolved into the NIL management technology for more than 100,000 athletes across 200 college athletic programs. INFLCR has since been acquired by sports tech titan, Teamworks.
In 2023, Jim founded Athletes.org which which is the players association for college athletes to negotiate the best terms for their college athletics experience. AO provides its member athletes with a free membership, empowering them with a voice, on demand support, and group licensing income in the same ways that professional league associations do for their member athletes.
Tune in to a new episode every Monday and join in on the conversation on Instagram with @nowitslegalpod and @jimcavale.
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Transcript
Introduction and Early NIL Challenges
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Now It's Legal. I'm your host, Jim Cavall. Today we have a very exciting guest in Neil Brown, the head football coach at West Virginia. Now, when you think about being a power conference college football head coach right now, it was already hard, but since NIL began, and with a lot of the other things happening in college athletics, it's even harder. And Neil's gonna talk about all of it. This is a guy I got to know
00:00:27
Speaker
when he was at Troy, his previous head coaching gig here in Alabama. Now he won a Sunbelt Conference Championship at Troy in 2018, but I met him in 2017 when I was just getting my previous company, Influencer, off the ground. And they were one of our first clients because Neil is a guy that thinks forward.
00:00:46
Speaker
He is different than most of his peers in college athletics who tend to think in the present. He's always thinking about the future. And at that time, 2017, Neil saw NIL coming. Neil thought that it was important to empower his athletes on social media.
00:01:01
Speaker
And as time's gone on, Neil was ahead of the curve with NIL and how he's empowered his athletes. And he's thinking ahead of the curve now with what needs to be a part of the new deal of college athletics, something we talk about frequently at athletes.org with the work we're doing every day. So this is a good conversation because Neil and I really riff on a lot of these topics, and I think you're going to get a lot out of it.
West Virginia's Season Outlook and Initial NIL Impact
00:01:26
Speaker
It's coming up nine wins season and West Virginia is coming into 2024 with a lot of heat. He's going to talk about that too. So let's go to it. My interview with Neil Brown.
00:01:43
Speaker
All right, Neil. So first of all, thank you for making the time. I know that it's a busy time of year. It's always a busy time of year, but getting out of spring, getting into workouts, getting ready for another season. So thank you for taking some time to talk about what's going on in college football, because it's a crazy time. And I think the best place to start in this conversation is you and I have known each other
00:02:10
Speaker
since before NIL when you were the head coach at Troy, you embraced influencer and really thought forward about social media brand building before NIL even happened. But when NIL happened, it was an interesting situation because as a coach, you were told you could help but only so much and we really had to keep disconnected from the athletes. What was the beginning of NIL like for you as a coach?
NIL System Evolution and University's Response
00:02:38
Speaker
Well, I think is
00:02:40
Speaker
from a coaching perspective, like we could see it coming. You know, there was a lot going on in the world. There was a lot going on in college athletics kind of when NIL started taking place. If you go back, you know, we were on Zooms a lot during COVID, and a lot of things were changing. You know, I think the big thing that we were trying to do there, if you go back to the summer of 20, a really spring of 20, summer of 20, was just trying to play football, trying to figure it out.
00:03:10
Speaker
And, you know, people were talking about health protocols and all those things, which they should have, but there was also this NIL was coming, name, image, likeness was coming. And coaches had been talking about it for a couple of years. And we knew what it eventually was going to become. It was going to become pay for play. And that's kind of what it is now. We use fancy terms, but that's basically kind of
00:03:38
Speaker
I don't necessarily, I don't like to refer to it as pay for play. I think you look at it as it's roster bonuses is kind of what I think of it as. But you can see it coming. And so I think that some programs, some universities were more prepared than others. For us here at West Virginia, we went through the 20 season and we were good. And then you knew it was coming in June of 21.
00:04:09
Speaker
And we just got called, we got left behind a little bit. And really our collective, just speaking from our perspective, the Country Roads Trust, which I'm extremely grateful, really created by Ken Kendrick, who's the owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks, who's a West Virginia alum. We played in a bowl game, we played the guaranteed rate bowl against Minnesota in a game I just soon forget. It's the only bowl game I've ever lost, man, we did not play well.
00:04:38
Speaker
But, and so had some conversations with Ken there at the bowl, and we started. But we started later than a lot of schools.
Fundraising and Resource Management
00:04:50
Speaker
I think we got up and running in March, and we lost six defensive starters after the bowl game, and then we lost some wideouts as well. So I think 11 starters maybe overall, and we went into that 22 season.
00:05:07
Speaker
and really kind of struggled and came out of it. We'd played solid defense before, but, you know, we really struggled in 22 defensively. And the thankful that we got our trust in a good position, really starting kind of after the year turned in 22. And now we're in a position where, you know, I think of our collective as this is, I think there's several that are,
00:05:34
Speaker
probably have more funds available than we do. But I think that we're making the most of ours. I think we've been really efficient. We're very lucky to have Oliver Luck as the president. Steven Ford, who came over from Learfield, is running the day-to-day. We've got a good team and it's been a good working relationship. But yeah, man, you alluded to this at the start. College football has changed quite a bit.
00:06:01
Speaker
But as, and you mentioned getting the most out of your collective, I think that's a good segue to the reality that a lot of coaches are getting involved with their collective in conversations with prospective athletes. We all know it's happening. We know that coaches will talk to athletes in the portal and find out what they want financially. And a lot of offers are flippantly being made to athletes to get them to make a move. We also know that sometimes those offers aren't being
00:06:31
Speaker
honored, and athletes aren't even being paid what they told they would get paid if they transferred to that school. But I know that, you know, this is just a part now of college athletics. And I want to get your thoughts on how a coach should be involved or not be involved with the collective and the prospective student athletes or the current student athletes you're trying to retain, because I think a lot of people want to understand what's right and what's not.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think the first thing is, like most head coaches, I'm involved. I think probably the thing that I've been the most active in is just fundraising, which is critical. You know, I think everybody thinks that college sports, professional sports, and the models where, you know, they're similar, but the roles are completely different, you know. You have owners.
00:07:29
Speaker
in professional sports. You have collective bargaining in professional sports. You have, in most cases, a difference between management or roster group and then the football coaching side. At the FBS level, Power Four football now is the head coach, is responsible for, in some instances of fundraising.
00:07:58
Speaker
and total control your roster. And so there's a lot of different things that are asked of a head coach that probably weren't the case four or five years ago. So I think from just the front of it is just raising funds and really explaining to our fan base why it's important. You know, we're in the process of going around the state of West Virginia right now and doing a coach's caravan this week. And a large part of what I'm talking about is just trying to explain why
00:08:28
Speaker
The Country Roads Trust is important and how vital it is in us building and not only building, but retaining our roster. And so that's the first thing. I think what we're trying to do is there's
Recruitment Strategies and Athlete Payments
00:08:41
Speaker
three elements of fundraising, right? There's individual donors, which I think
00:08:48
Speaker
That's where you're seeing some donor fatigue because this is a year-to-year deal. It's not like you put your name on a room in a facility or you help build a facility and it's there for a long time. This is a year-to-year deal. So you see some donor fatigue. But donors are part of it. The second thing is subscription. What we're trying to do is we have a subscription to our trust where you can get behind-the-scenes access and different gear and things like that.
00:09:18
Speaker
Then it's about events or creating brand items. Like we have a deal with a whiskey company. We have a deal with a beer distributor. We have all kinds of cool Country Rose Trust gear that we're selling. And then we're doing events. You know, we did a fantasy camp. We're going to do a kickoff dinner. You know, I think that's important.
00:09:44
Speaker
And then you have the corporate sponsorship, which I think is critical. I think having corporate buy-in around the trust is critical. So doing that. And then the other thing, too, is we basically, as college football is involved, we have a high school recruiting section, and then we have a scouting department. And our high school recruiting, they do traditional high school recruiting. We want to build our team through high school recruiting.
00:10:12
Speaker
If you think of our kind of what our formula is here, Jim is, is I think you're going to have about 30 guys, you know, transition year in, year out off your roster. And we want to be in that 20 to 24 high school kids. And we want to be in that six to 10 transfer. I think that's a good model for us. You know, for us here is we're not necessarily, you know, investing a ton of resources in high school guys. What we want to do is bring those high school guys in.
00:10:37
Speaker
We want to develop them, which we think we are elite at development, you know, nutrition, strength, conditioning, sports, psychology, all those things. And then the trust will reward those guys in retention. And that's kind of our model. Um, but our scouting department handles all of our transfer portal. And, and what we do is we basically grade and what our need is in our scouting department goes and does that just, you know, very similar to what NFL scouting department does.
00:11:07
Speaker
And then we have a general manager and our general manager works really day to day with our trust. I don't necessarily, um, I'm not in day to day contact. That's our general manager's role. Um, but definitely I think discussions on money come up. They're uncomfortable. They always are. Um, but they're definitely coming up. You know, I think that the other thing too is, and you see this more in transfer recruiting than you do in high school recruiting. And some of that's just kind of where we're at.
00:11:33
Speaker
Some other universities probably deal with it a little bit more in high school recruiting, but you're bringing a lot of third parties into it in a lot of suit, what I would call pseudo agents. There's some legitimate agencies out there and legitimate agents. But there's a lot of pseudo and I think the misunderstanding just in general and college athletics is like every men's basketball player and every college football player at the power four level are getting paid man and they're getting rich.
00:11:59
Speaker
And that's simply just not the case. There's people that are getting paid, and there's guys that are getting paid, and they should. And we can talk more about that in a minute. But very few of these athletes are truly getting rich, and even fewer of those are really accumulating true wealth. So you brought up the NFL a few times.
00:12:24
Speaker
There's a reality that college football, at least at the level that you coach power conference, is starting to mirror pro football in some ways, right? Talked about a scouting department. Talked about a GM to help manage the roster. Talked about essentially a trust to fund players being retained because they've played well.
College Football Structure and Future Concerns
00:12:49
Speaker
You said played well. I didn't say played well. Well, good point. Thank you. I said played well.
00:12:55
Speaker
But the reality is, is the things that don't mirror pro football are creating a lot of pain. One example would be that every year athletes can become free agents and they can use the transfer portal to go find the best offer in combination, we'll say, not just money, but playing time, other things that they might want to find. And it's really hard to retain players when they can be free agents every year.
00:13:25
Speaker
Another issue is tampering. Coaches are able to lure players because of the transfer portal and the annual vulnerability and exposure an athlete can get on the transfer portal. Coaches can steal players pretty easy.
00:13:41
Speaker
And so whether it's those two problems or I could list a long list of other problems that you have to deal with on a daily basis, it was already really hard to be a head football coach before NIL and before all of this. And you made it to the highest level. But now you have to deal with all these other things as a coach.
00:14:04
Speaker
much do you think about a structured world where some of those problems I brought up could actually be addressed and we could have a wonderful system of the future for college athletics? Well, I think if you look at just, let's just think about throughout history, there's been systems that are absolutely broken and what happens is they get pushed to the point and they blow up and then you fix them and they're able to move forward probably in a better way.
00:14:31
Speaker
And I think that we're nearing that. And college football in a lot of ways has never been more popular. If you look at the TV numbers, if you look at, you know, some of the fan engagement things, like it's never been more popular. And I think that from just a spectator sport in the United States, we're the most watched sport in the entire country. You know, the NFL is the most popular, but they only have 32 teams. You know, we've got
00:15:02
Speaker
you know, if you just talk about power for, you know, there's, there's six, you know, approximately 60 or more schools, and we're the most popular fan, um, sport that there is in our country. Um, and so this is wildly popular, but the system's broken. You know, it's, it's broken. Um, it, it doesn't make sense. And here's the thing, Joe, I'm not whining and complaining. You know, I, I, I make a very good living. There's, um,
00:15:31
Speaker
So I'm not complaining. There's a lot of people that this is a tough occupation, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of tougher occupations. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of people that got it way worse than I do. So like, I'm grateful. I'm thankful for the opportunity that I'm in. Um, for me, it's like what I think about a lot is man, like, how do we make this better? And then how do we sustain this? Because, um, I just think about this, you know, like,
00:15:59
Speaker
it's still a big deal to have a college scholarship. Like that's a big deal, you know, like, um, and I think about this and you can, you can correct me if I'm, if I'm wrong, but it was told to me that, that, that NCAA scholarships are the second biggest scholarship program in the history of the United States. The GI Bill's one. And you think about just through athletics, how many people are getting educated. And so I think a college education is still vital.
00:16:28
Speaker
Um, but our system's broken and I think it's broken and you go, you go exactly why, why is the system broken? And it goes back to greed, you know, it's greed. And so as television contracts started to, to really grow and expand, we had an opportunity and I say we, I wouldn't necessarily make any decisions or part of that process at the time, but college athletics should have. All right.
00:16:55
Speaker
Shared the revenue with the players and just a missed opportunity And so now through a series of bad decisions. We are we have utter chaos Okay, and the common fan doesn't know it but the common fan will be affected before too long And so I think what we have to look at is we just have to the whole the whole system needs restructuring
00:17:18
Speaker
Like right now, like all of our rules and guidelines are based on football being a one semester sport. Like it only plays in the fall. Well, that's not accurate. It's a year round sport. The national championships going to be played on January 20th next year. That's what it is. And so we need to restructure our entire calendar. You know, I think that that football needs to be looked at as an isolated sport because it's set up different. The champion is through the CFP.
00:17:46
Speaker
Like NCAA men's basketball tournament is unbelievable, like unbelievable. And so like that's a different postseason, but that's mandated by NCAA college football is not. And it's just a different sport. So I think we need to look at a governance structure that's that's really the power for schools and what's that? What's that structure look like? I think we need to look at some type of collective bargaining.
00:18:12
Speaker
Are the players going to be employees? I'm not necessarily against that. A lot of people are. I could argue both ways, but I think there has to be collective bargaining and we have to get to the point where there's actual rules governing. Okay. And, and so like, let's just say this NIL, like I believe a hundred percent that the players should be paid. They should, they should have an opportunity.
00:18:35
Speaker
to get paid for their services. Absolutely.
Legal and Financial Implications in College Athletics
00:18:38
Speaker
Okay. I believe they should have an opportunity to transfer. I transferred. I was a one-time transfer. I transferred down. Um, and so I believe that they should have an opportunity to transfer. I don't have a problem with that. The problem is, is managing a roster and it's all about, you know, each player's individual rights. I get that, but there has to be, it has to be taken into effect. The other people on the roster, there's a reason why,
00:19:04
Speaker
the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, all these people have free agency periods of time. And there's only one, right? There's one free agency time. There's a reason why there's collective bargaining. There's a reason why they have strong tampering rules and you see people get punished for it all the time. There's a reason why. And so for me, I think what we have to look at is football is a two semester sport. It's different than any of these other sports.
00:19:28
Speaker
All right. And then, okay, there has to be a period of free agency or transfer portal, however you want to do it. And there has to be where you're locked in for a year. And what I mean for a year, once you, there has to be, in my opinion, there should be one portal or one free agency period. And then once that is over and the player chooses, they're locked in. That way you have a roster that's built and it's fair to the people that are on your team. Um,
00:19:54
Speaker
But anyway, I went on a rant, but those are just some things. I just think the system's broken. It can be better. There's some fixes and they're not easy, Jim. Like you live in this world daily, like they're not easy, but they can be done.
00:20:07
Speaker
That can be done. The issue is with most of what you said is the people who are in charge, so to speak, and have the ability to be pioneers and innovators and put this new deal together have very little incentivization.
00:20:24
Speaker
to do that, whether it's personally they want to just get to their next contract, which we've seen a lot of a lot of ads and others presidents just focus on that and not want to rock the boat, or whether it's a situation of
00:20:41
Speaker
they're doing fine with the current model and they're in the lead, so why would they want to mess anything up? There's just a lack of incentivization right now from the leaders and we need the leaders to step up because the reality is this, we do need collective bargaining or some sort of collective negotiation if it's not through employment and through some other NIL type mechanism to share the revenue with the athletes.
00:21:09
Speaker
And if the athletes don't agree to the terms of the revenue being shared, you're just going to have more court cases. And this is not going to be sustainable to use your word. It's going to be a yet another can kick down the road that somebody else will have to deal with.
00:21:26
Speaker
because the leaders in charge now will be maybe retired by that, I don't know. And so that's really the existing landscape of college athletics. And you're right, the fans, there's really a lack of education for just about every audience, but especially for the fans and the athletes. I don't think a lot of athletes are walking around right now saying, oh, did you see that the House case might settle for $2.7 billion? And I don't think there's a lot of athletes talking about that right now. Now, when it is settled,
00:21:57
Speaker
And it's the beginning of a nine month term for the courts to approve it. And all the news is going to be about the fact that 20, 25, whatever the number is, million dollars a year is going to now be distributed to the athletes. Now your parents and your athletes are going to be asking you a lot of questions about how that's going to work. And they need to be at the table agreeing to how it works. And I think that's the biggest observation I have that comes from what you said, which is we need to collectively bargain. That's underwriting the future. That's ensuring.
00:22:26
Speaker
the future. So two is like these are really complex issues, you know, and I think there's like everyone has their opinion about
Olympic Sports and Leadership Critique
00:22:35
Speaker
solutions. But these are really complex issues. And you start talking about title nine, you start talking about antitrust. Like I have a real fear for Olympic sports. I have a real fear that I have two daughters that one is is
00:22:55
Speaker
think she wants to play college softball. I've got another that is really into soccer at this point in her life and probably wants to pursue that in college. Like, I worry about, like, what does that look like for them? You know, where, what is the answer for Olympic sports? Because you think about it, and this is a big picture item, right? Is you think about how many people that are in leadership positions, whether it's
00:23:23
Speaker
local government, whether it's in your education system, whether it's in corporations, like how many of those leadership people really formed like who they are and what they're about through athletics. So what does it look like? You know, what is what? And I'm really like, I'm really concerned. That's not going to affect me personally and what we're doing football wise. But like, I'm really concerned about that. What does that look like? What does that look like? Because
00:23:51
Speaker
Is the quarterback going to make the same as as a rower? Not that there are any different people wise, but there's obviously a lot more eyes on the product in football, right? And so I'm really concerned about what are Olympic sports? What does that look like for them? And then I think too you go back and you're talking about the athlete and maybe even some of the leadership deals. I think this is like there's some of the people in charge, not leaders. But everybody is like concerned about the here and now.
00:24:19
Speaker
Like everybody is like, and I'm talking about the normal person is just like, okay, what does it look for, look like for me right now? What does it look like for me right now? How does it affect me right now? And it's no different. I've got a, most of our team is like this, like, what are the, what are, what is the rules right now? How does it affect me? And I think that the leaders have to have vision of what it looks like down the road because your normal people are just going to be, Hey, what,
00:24:48
Speaker
What does it look like right now for me? And so, yeah, our players aren't talking about the house case. Now, as soon as it goes into revenue distribution, now they're going to be interested because then it's going to affect them. But it doesn't necessarily affect them right now. And I think it's a lot, whether it's athletic directors, presidents, coaches, whatever it is, is they're worried about the right now because you're in survival mode. But you get these jobs, man, you're just trying to survive in advance.
00:25:15
Speaker
But I think we're doing a disservice to the sport if we're not trying to figure out what it looks like 10, 15, 20 years down the road. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And that's the life I chose to start living eight and a half months ago when I started athletes.org.
Innovative Solutions and Positive Outlook
00:25:35
Speaker
We're trying to live in the future and bring it back into the present and reverse engineer to today. And I think what you shared today was very, very helpful. I think it's interesting to hear about what it's like to be a coach right now in college football. And one thing I love is you're not complaining.
00:25:54
Speaker
And you've embraced it. You've gone all in. You've been doing that. I mean, really since before NIL started, I talked earlier about your time at Troy and your transition to West Virginia. You called me on the road when you were heading up to start the job. You said, hey, man, we got to have influencer. We got to help our athletes on socials, you know?
00:26:11
Speaker
And I always appreciate how much you believed in me and in our company early on before the other 250 Division I schools bought in. And that meant a lot to me. So I also love how you're leaning in to the current state of college football. And I think that's why you're going to be successful and be around leading young men for a long time.
00:26:32
Speaker
I got a couple last questions for you. And then I'm going to let you go. I think the first one is just a little bit about the
Optimism for 2024 and Personal Reflections
00:26:40
Speaker
team. How was spring football? How's the team looking? How do you feel about the 2024 season? Yeah, we're excited. We're coming off a bowl win over North Carolina in the Duke's Mayo Bowl. So nine wins really were really close.
00:26:59
Speaker
You know, we had Oklahoma State who played in the championship game, big 12 championship game. We were ahead kind of midway through the fourth quarter and just couldn't finish the game here. If we were able to finish that, then we were able to, that would have propelled us to Dallas. And so we returned, you know, one of the most exciting players in all the college football in our quarterback, Garrett Green. And so dual threat guy and he's explosive.
00:27:23
Speaker
We were one of the top offenses in the country last year from about middle of the season on. And we feel like that we can be that again. And then we've made some real strong additions defensively. So we feel like we can do that. We opened the season with Penn State right here at Mountaineer Field. So it's gonna be rocking and rolling and really gives us an opportunity to show up on a national stage. We started this year last year against those guys and they beat us pretty handily. So we get another opportunity.
00:27:50
Speaker
That's a big game. It's a big rivalry game for our fans here. And then the big 12, man, I think it's, I think we got work to do to be the best team or best league in football, but I think we're most exciting. There's a bunch of teams that are, that are probably like us that feel like they have a chance to get in Dallas for that championship game. So, but it's exciting times here.
00:28:12
Speaker
Well, I know you're about to go read to your son's class. And I love that you're doing that. I actually did that last week. And there's nothing like you only get so many chances to do it. What book are you reading? So he's going to surprise me. He's going to surprise me. So it was a big decision today on the school drop off. And so he put three books in his bag.
00:28:36
Speaker
And, uh, and so it'll, it'll be a surprise. He's, uh, and so we're reading, he's a second grader. And so I'm reading, I'm actually a sub reader. Like this is one of the cool times. Most of the time, like I'm tied up. So my wife texted me last night and, and I'm, uh, I'm on the way back from a, from a caravan stop. And she's like, Hey, can you read, can you read a Dax's class? They need a sub, they need a sub reader, a backup reader.
00:29:04
Speaker
And so I'm like, all right, if Jim, if Jim lets me off the podcast in time, I'm there. So I'm actually the sub reader today. I don't know if I've ever, like that's a, it's a, it's good during this time of year. It's a little slower. So, so I can fit. I'm the filling guy today. Well, coach, I look forward to seeing you again soon and appreciate you making time this morning. I hope that you have a great day today class with your son and I hope you have a great 2024 season. Jim, appreciate it, man. Appreciate what you're trying to do.
00:29:32
Speaker
Great stuff from Neil. Like I said, he's always thinking forward. You could hear it with a lot of what we talked about. And I love the balance in his life. We probably could have went into that even further. But just the fact that he was leaving our interview to go be a guest reader for his son's class. I know family is a really important part of his life. And I know he's built a family.
00:29:57
Speaker
I've had a chance to speak to his team in the past and Neil is a guy who really puts the right things first and lives out of a leadership mentality, really a servant leadership mentality. And you could see that in the interview today. Now listen, I want to encourage you, if you enjoyed this podcast, if you enjoy this topic of college athletics and where things are going,
00:30:21
Speaker
I want you to follow us on social on Instagram at Now It's Legal Pod. If you have ideas for guests, we should be considering whether they're athletes, parents, coaches, athletic directors, presidents, business people. These are all folks we want to feature on this show. Send us a suggestion via DM on Instagram after you follow us. Also, make sure you subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcast.
00:30:47
Speaker
Spotify podcast, and of course on YouTube. And pass the show along to your friends. We're really excited about these conversations. We've got some really exciting guests coming in the weeks ahead. But in the meantime, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Now It's Legal.