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S2E9 - Gloria Nevarez - Now It's Legal with Jim Cavale
125 Plays2 months ago
Gloria Nevarez is the second commissioner in the history of the Mountain West Conference, with almost 30 years of experience in college athletics. Previously, she had been the fourth full-time commissioner of the West Coast Conference and is the first Hispanic American to become a commissioner of an NCAA Division I conference. Prior to her WCC commissioner role, Gloria was an administrator at the WCC, the Pac-12 Conference, University of Oklahoma, University of California, Berkeley and San Jose State University.
Gloria joins Now It’s Legal to discuss her comprehensive five-year strategic plan, “Ascend Together: Our Path to Excellence”, which showcases the league’s core values-based principles: Competitive Excellence, Academic Achievement, Integrity, Relentless Drive, and Community and Inclusion.
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About Now It's Legal
In July 2021, NIL forever changed the trajectory of college athletics. It’s been a long time coming as the NCAA has long needed changes like NIL, the transfer portal, revenue sharing and other benefits for college athletes.
We introduce to you the Now It’s Legal podcast. Join us as we discuss the industry that holds the hearts of millions of fans who want to understand where its trajectory is heading. We are talking to those who are invested in and affected by NIL including: Former and current college athletes, presidents and head coaches, broadcasters and media personalities, investors and more. This is just the beginning of NIL and what it means for the future of college athletics.
Host Jim Cavale is a former college athlete and entrepreneur who has become an advocate for young athletes across the country. In 2017, he created the INFLCR app that allowed athletes to build their brand on social media, and in 2021, evolved into the NIL management technology for more than 100,000 athletes across 200 college athletic programs. INFLCR has since been acquired by sports tech titan, Teamworks.
In 2023, Jim founded Athletes.org which which is the players association for college athletes to negotiate the best terms for their college athletics experience. AO provides its member athletes with a free membership, empowering them with a voice, on demand support, and group licensing income in the same ways that professional league associations do for their member athletes.
Tune in to a new episode on Wednesdays this fall and join in on the conversation on Instagram with @nowitslegalpod and @jimcavale.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Now It's Legal' Podcast with Jim Cavell
00:00:09
Speaker
What is up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Now It's Legal. That's what NIL really stands for, by the way. I'm Jim Cavell, your host. And this is the podcast where we talk about everything past, present, and future in college athletics, an industry that is going through massive disruption. And we bring guests on from all walks, whether it's commissioners, athletic directors, athletes, agents, folks from the media to talk about how they see college athletics today and tomorrow.
Gloria Navarez: Career and Industry Changes
00:00:38
Speaker
And today we do have a fun guest. We have Gloria Navarez, who's the commissioner of the Mountain West Conference, a conference that probably will have a team in the expanded 12-team college football playoff. We'll talk about that, but we'll also talk about where the industry is going from her perspective.
00:00:56
Speaker
She was a student athlete at UMass Amherst, played basketball. She got her graduate degree, her JD from Cal, and she's somebody who's worked all over in college athletics in some really exciting leadership roles. I got to know her during her time as the commissioner of the West Coast Conference, but she currently sits as the Mountain West Commissioner, and she's in the middle of everything going on right now in college athletics, so let's go right to it.
Joining Mountain West: Navarez's Decision and Mission Alignment
00:01:20
Speaker
My interview with Gloria Navarez.
00:01:24
Speaker
Commissioner Tavares, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Now It's Legal. And you know this is a podcast where we talk about everything past, present, and future in college athletics. and i think You know, your recent decision to take the commissioner seat at the Mountain West is an interesting one for a lot of people because there's so much disruption going on in college athletics. And you are leading a very focused basketball centric conference in the WCC, but you chose to go to the Mountain West during this time of disruption. And I want to start there. like
00:02:01
Speaker
What led to your decision to go to the Mountain West and be a part of really this new era of college athletics?
Strategic Planning: Academics, Athletics, and Community Impact
00:02:10
Speaker
I really have never chased jobs just for titles or classification of institution, but really about opportunity and the people and the fit. and you know I grew up going to large public institutions, high school, college, law school, and I just love what the Mountain west West represents in the Western region, very competitive programs across um the geographic footprint. And so when I met with the President's Board, I just, I really felt a lot of alignment with the mission.
00:02:47
Speaker
And so you're you're leading a conference in this era of really schools jockeying through conference realignment for position, right? And you've dealt with a lot of that already. How do you set a vision with the moving target of where college athletics is going? And and maybe you could describe that ah process in regard to how you have set the vision, what the vision is for the Mountain West amidst all that's going on with conference realignment.
00:03:14
Speaker
When I first started at the Mountain West, we created a strategic plan and that had a vision and a mission. And it sounded a lot like other collegiate conferences, academic emphasis excellence, athletic emphasis excellence. But also the schools in the Mountain West, like I mentioned, are large public institutions. A lot of times they're the only show in town. They pride themselves on inclusive and accessible education.
00:03:42
Speaker
um educating those in the community, having an impact in their communities and their states. And so that hasn't changed. When we think about who we're looking forward to in expansion, um looking for fit, geographic continuity is important. I know that's starting to take a backseat in a lot of conference um discussions. It's still pretty high on our list, um but also alignment around student athlete first and educating young people through sport and higher education.
CFP Expansion: Revenue and Opportunities for Teams
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, and like you said, the geographic aspect is taking a backseat for a lot of leagues and it makes it harder for the student athlete to manage their academics ah when they're at Cal Berkeley and playing in the ACC. So love that you're still trying to stay geographically focused because it preserves that that academic objective of college athletics that's always been there.
00:04:39
Speaker
um So as you look at where college athletics is going, we obviously haven't expanded CFP this year. ah The most recent CFP rankings, there's a team from the Mountain West has a really good shot to to make the CFP here in the 12 team playoffs inaugural year. ah How important is it to have your teams competing for the CFP with how much revenue that generates for college athletics and and possibly for your conference?
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, and as you mentioned, college football does drive the economic engine in, you know, FBS, and but more importantly, I think having the ability to have access, to have a pathway to compete, to qualify for the championship. We've had that in every other sport across the ecosystem. And finally, thanks to the great work of former commissioner Craig Thompson and others on those subcommittees,
00:05:35
Speaker
They worked long and hard to create this expanded playoff and maintain that access point um for leagues like ours and our peer conferences. And so to, to be in a position to have a team like Boise State, who's performing incredibly well, you know, the ah all the credit to coach and student athletes for doing it on the field. It's just a really exciting time because not only are they highly ranked,
00:06:04
Speaker
and looking at being one of the top five conference champions, but they have a chance maybe to make a case that they could be four or even three maybe, depending on what happens out there. So that's really exciting. And that's why access is so important. Yeah. It's always been interesting and in college football, FBS college football, where you have more than a hundred teams, but the beginning of the year you kind of know there's really only maybe eight to ten teams that really have a chance to win a championship and this year a lot more than that started the year with a chance and even right now about midway through the season there's probably a few dozen teams that still have a chance to vie for
00:06:42
Speaker
ah that that those 12 spots, so definitely exciting.
Separate Championship Considerations for Group of Five
00:06:47
Speaker
And I know there has been talk in the group of five leagues, um at least in theory, of having its own championship. Do you think that that would devalue ah the spot or spots that a group of five programs might have in the CFP if if the group of five conferences had its own championship as well?
00:07:08
Speaker
Never say never, but right now I'm not in favor of doing anything that would jeopardize our ability to earn our way into the CFP championship. um However, there could be a scenario where some alternative system to determine the top five champions evolves. And I think I'd be open to some of that, but um right now I've Clearly, with my Mountain West hat on feeling that the current system seems appropriate. Yeah, because I mean, ultimately, while it it could create some excitement around the group of five conferences and their programs or the best programs to have a playoff.
00:07:52
Speaker
It probably would end up being the winner of that, being able to get into the CFP, whereas right now ah you can get in into the CFP through the Mountain West as a conference. So it makes complete sense.
Mountain West's Preparation for House Settlement Changes
00:08:03
Speaker
So shifting to the house settlement, right? You have these court cases being settled, allowing schools to spend somewhere around 20 million a year um in year one. It looks like that's the cap is going to be in that realm of the low 20s. And we know most or all power conference schools are just going to have to figure out how to hit that number all the way to the cap. ah But we also know that there'll be a group of five programs that will participate in certain ways to support certain sports that are big for their campuses and for their athletics budget from a revenue driving standpoint.
00:08:39
Speaker
We had Tim Pernetti, the commissioner of the American Athletic Conference, come out here and say, they're going to have a floor. um We want everybody to go as close to the cap as they can, but but there's going to be a minimum here where we want each school to invest into their student athlete benefits ah through the house settlement. How are you looking at it ah for the Mountain West Conference? You know, we've been deep in exploration about how we're going to you know face the future. I would start by saying,
00:09:08
Speaker
all the Mountain West schools are in. you know They're going to be participating in some way. What that means yet, we don't know. And we've been exploring minimums, um facilitation through the conference office. But frankly, there are just right now so many unknowns about what that means, how dollars will count and flow toward the cap. So we are not a named defendant. So we're really not in the room right now.
00:09:37
Speaker
as they are hammering out the details and and what the settlement actually means when the rubber hits the road. um But we're we're ready and have been doing the background. I don't know that we have any decisions that we'd announce at this point. Yeah and I mean the reality is while the decision date will be finalized on April 7th, should the judge approve the settlement, which many think she will, and some think there's a chance she won't. um But assuming she does on April 7th, you still have till July for it to begin. On the other hand, right now in the present, the national letter of intent is gone. We have contracts between schools and all athletes on the financial aid side, and with some recruits,
00:10:23
Speaker
Schools are actually putting revenue sharing contracts in front of them of what it would look like to get revenue sharing starting next year. So like, how do you handle that from a conference standpoint to make sure that ah nobody's getting, let's say too far over their skis with what they're talking to prospective student athletes about? Yeah. And what you described is exactly what the schools are struggling with across the country, not just in the Mount West right now is this. We know we got to get there. We don't want to be last, but we,
00:10:52
Speaker
it's There's not enough clarity on how to move forward. So our role as a conference is really to source information and try to give our membership the most current, up-to-date, what everyone else is doing, what we're hearing from the settlement and the NCAA so that they can make real-time informed decisions on campus. And unfortunately, that's been piecemeal so far. And till that settlement is approved, no one's really releasing any information in the affirmative. so it's just been a lot of information sharing and sourcing what others are trying to do.
Educational Gaps in NIL Deals for Coaches and Athletes
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, and and there's an education gap for everyone, right? Like coaches are the ones that are having these conversations with prospective student athletes and not just head coaches, but assistant coaches who are recruiting.
00:11:38
Speaker
And they need to be educated on, you know, what to say, how to say it, um what what would be in a contract, getting familiar with what those contracts look like. ah These are NIL deals between the school and the athlete, not employment or salary deals.
00:11:53
Speaker
um probably a bigger problem we could talk about a little bit later in the in the interview. but um So you got ah that education gap, but then you got the education gap for for the athlete, right? the The athlete and their parent or agent, um they're they're learning in real time as well. So there's just a lot of education gaps that need to be covered um in real time as this is all happening. Yeah. and And can't educate until we know the definitive
Debate: Should Student Athletes Be Employees?
00:12:21
Speaker
answer. So, you know, it's a
00:12:24
Speaker
Domino effect and we're still waiting for the dominoes at the top to help us answer some of those questions sure sure, so I mentioned the the reality that a lot of athletes are going to be paid directly by the school starting next year should this settlement be approved and You know one of the hot topics of course is whether athletes should be employees or not and you have one side that says that athletes should be employees whether they want to be or not because they're treated like employees with how much time they're accountable to spend on their sport and academics um in exchange for, you know, their scholarship. um You have another side that says athletes don't want to be employees and it would be detrimental to them for for all the reasons around
00:13:07
Speaker
being able to be terminated, having to pay taxes on their benefits, etc. Instead of getting into those two sides, there's a reality regardless of this that starting next year, there's going to be a paper trail between the schools and the athletes that looks like pay for play, even though it's NIL. And I know for me, if I was you know building a business, which I've done a few times in my career, if I was paying all my Employees as contractors the government will look at me and say hey, where's our payroll taxes? You know, why aren't you paying workers comp, you know, etc You have a background that that understands this really well from a loss standpoint Like how do you look at where we're going next in college sports and and what could be new liabilities for college athletics? Well to your point about employment I personally
00:13:59
Speaker
don't want to see student athletes be employees, but I believe that movement is because the athletes want a share of the revenue, revenue sharing, and a say in the governance and control of, you know, all the things that govern playing sort playing practices and practice hours, all those types of things. And so if we can achieve those two things, which I think they're trying to do through the house settlement, perhaps the athletes can get their goal, but without becoming employees because, as you mentioned, there are a lot of downsides. The student athletes enjoy a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility that goes away if you become employees. So that certainly, for me, has is on the horizon. You asked about other issues. you know The House settlement does preclude quite a few types of challenges, but certainly doesn't grab them all.
00:14:57
Speaker
and you know they're I don't know that the you know continued push-pull between student-athlete rights and trying to field teams and create a level playing field isn't going to be fertile ground for more legal challenges.
Potential Legal Issues from House Settlement
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, there's, there's, it's interesting, there's things in the house settlement that could create new legal challenges. And there's things that weren't allowed to be consolidated into the settlement and have remained separate. Right. So Johnson versus the NCAA has remained separate from the house settlement. And that's about employment and the FLSA, the Fair Labor Standards Act and as I said earlier, I think the NIL payments from the school to the athlete will probably add fuel and assets to that case. um And that's why there's a push for Congress to help with this, right? um But then inside of the House settlement, you have ah implications around, you know, with scholarship limits changing, with revenue sharing happening, but it's up to the school, how they disperse the revenue sharing per sport and per athlete. You have these other challenges where some sports will win, other sports could really lose and be canceled. ah You know, you know all the things like, how how do you look at all of that? Because that's a, that's a concern I think everyone has with college athletics is we want all the sports to continue to exist. While we also want athletes who help produce massive amounts of revenue to be able to share in it. Yeah. And that is a central tension folks are really struggling with right now because
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, and depending where you are, depending um what the the school's historic profile has been, some sports get dialed up and some dial down. Like, you know, in the Western region, aquatics and, you know, baseball and softball are are really strong and highly valued, whereas some other regions, just because of geography and weather, they might not be. So, ah you know, while we have always had institutional discretion decision on on those,
00:17:03
Speaker
things, the added pressure of spending more into sports like football in order to be competitive will definitely pull from somewhere for a lot of these schools. Many will try, to you know, raise more money and develop more revenue, but there there is going to be a push-pull that will have negative impacts on other sports.
Athlete Representation in Governance
00:17:23
Speaker
Absolutely. And and you talked earlier about the fact that um you know It's not just revenue sharing that student athletes want and should have, but it's also ah more of a voice in the governance of how their overall college athletics experience happens, right? Practice time, living quarters, health and safety benefits, like all those things. um Do you feel like the athletes beyond a court case with a plaintiff or two
00:17:54
Speaker
beyond the sack, which has a certain amount of of education coming to them, but also limited participation from the student athlete body. Do you think there's room for more voice for athletes so they can actually understand all this? And and before I let you answer that, I'll tell you, obviously that's what we're all about at athletes dot.org, is giving athletes a voice in a non-union players association because they're not employees.
00:18:20
Speaker
And doing it in a way where they can receive the education and information around like, here's how the business of college sports works at your school. And if you're a field hockey athlete, but you're a football athlete, like here's how field hockey continues to exist with same amount of scholarships and facilities. And it requires football generating more revenue and being even more successful. and be able to compete in this new era which requires revenue sharing for these athletes that might be different than what you would get from a revenue sharing standpoint in field hockey. And and I've been in rooms with
00:18:53
Speaker
athletes where we've had those conversations. I always like to cite Notre Dame because they invited us to be in a room like that with all of the sports represented. And athletes usually get that, you know. And so is there room for more education for athletes on how the business works and also maybe more of a voice with how their school chooses to approach the house settlement?
Suggestions for Better Governance Representation
00:19:14
Speaker
I agree on both. There's definitely more room for more education. I mean, that's what we are. We are higher education and and lean into and support that. And there's also more room for voice. It's very, very difficult to, even at the conference level, to find student athlete representatives, wrangle their availability, and get them to engage to the level we would need to, to have really true, meaningful impact in voice, because it does take.
00:19:46
Speaker
time, preparation, understanding, being able to show up and given their schedules. I mean, when I was a student athlete, I wasn't interested in anything else but playing my sport for all the right reasons. And so it's very, very difficult to facilitate that in the current manner. i I'm hopeful and optimistic. We're all trying to figure out better ways to do that. Some suggestions have been, why don't we let student athletes serve one or two years after their eligibility expires? They're still attached to their colleagues and teammates, but they're in a more nine to five maybe work environment and and are entering their professional selves and can understand a little bit better how to engage in governance and not and um Or have some representatives that are a little bit more consistent, you know Sometimes especially with the transfer portal by the time you get a representative in your structure and they're all prepped up and ready to go they transfer away and so if we can get a little more seasoning and
00:20:45
Speaker
a little more stability in the representatives, I think that alone would help really impact the ability for the student-athlete voice to be collected. Consider them who what the majority position is and then represent it. Absolutely. My business partner Brandon Copeland played 10 years in the NFL and he just retired last year.
00:21:07
Speaker
um and and And he's a unique story. He went to Penn, didn't play big time college football, clawed his way onto an NFL roster. And 10 years later, he was ah a 10 year NFL guy. And a few of those years, he was a player rep for his team. The NFL has 32 teams. And so there's 32 player reps. And they meet together to make decisions for all the players.
NFL-Style Governance for College Athletes
00:21:33
Speaker
before they meet with the league and come up with certain new health and safety standards, or might be a different ah compensation structure. And so he always says, listen, the other 52 guys on my team were either too busy, like you said, or uninterested in being too much a part of what I was working on. But they, at least through me, who wanted to be in those meetings, could have a voice, and then I could represent their voice in those meetings.
00:22:02
Speaker
seems like there's a way to do that in college athletics. Obviously, that's what we work on every day with having reps, a player from each team that does care about this enough and want to facilitate the voice of their teammates to be able to sit down and agree to certain things. And so that's, I think, the the approach that that we're taking it from. And what you described is a functional representative governance structure. However, you know, especially in broad-based conferences,
00:22:33
Speaker
You know, they each have their own governance groups on campus. And then we take one rep from each school and they come together. And so you'll have a little bit of a hodgepodge of sport representation. So if you're talking about a basketball issue, you might not have any basketball players in the room and each student athlete, if they've not been prepped to go ask their basketball colleagues on their campus are trying to bring their own perspective.
00:22:58
Speaker
And not really representing that sport. So I think another way to think about and the the example you just gave us very sports specific. Yeah, but you have to. You have to write you. You have a basketball issue in the Mountain West. How great would it be?
00:23:11
Speaker
to go to the athletes dot.org Mountain West women's basketball chapter and have just the reps for the teams that play women's basketball in the Mountain West Conference talk about that issue. Right. And and that's how it really needs ah to flow. So I agree. And I think what you're basically saying is you've always been open to it. It's creating a situation with alignment and perspective.
00:23:32
Speaker
in the room from the issue that you're trying to solve. and And that's been a little bit harder over time. Maybe some of these new issues, contracts, for instance, now being put in front of athletes. Maybe athletes will care more to want to have a voice on what the standard contract looks like, because right now, school can come up with really whatever they want for the contract. And if the athlete doesn't have counsel,
00:23:53
Speaker
They may agree to something they don't realize they're agreeing to, right? So, um okay, so the future.
Centralizing Media Rights for College Football
00:24:00
Speaker
We have this situation where you've heard a lot of people say college football is the second most popular sport in America behind the NFL.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yet it gets outperformed direct to consumer about six to $1 by the NFL or the NBA, excuse me, and the MLB. And that's because they're a centralized league and they do everything with the league in mind. Whereas college football has the Mountain West going off working on this media deal and the big 10 going off working on this media deal, et cetera.
00:24:31
Speaker
And we've seen Len Perna come out with the college sports tomorrow group and their proposal of how it could look to have a centralized ah football league. We've seen Project Rudy from the Disney executives, former Disney executives come out with their proposal of what it would look like. um But putting those proposals aside first, like Do you think that the pie is that much bigger? We're hearing billions of dollars more per year if college football, division one, FBS work together in a central manner. Yeah, I do. And I get why private equity is like, hey, we could do this a lot better. Let us in. But recall,
00:25:12
Speaker
We used to be in that system where the centralized media rights were at the NCAA and there was a lawsuit and we lost that lawsuit and then the media rights had to trickle out to the conferences. So the more consolidation we have, the higher our antitrust risk is, which is one of the things I think they're working at the highest levels to try to solve for that because this fracturing to your point, makes the entire system inefficient. the The great thing about the pro system, they own all the teams, they own all the schedules, they can figure out how the playoff works and they can move teams around and games around to maximize viewership and attendance. Whereas we are very fractured and regionalized. But again, we've lost some antitrust cases here in the near past. So does more consolidation increase that risk?
00:26:06
Speaker
Well, it might increase revenue. I mean, that's the the give take, I think. you have to Yeah,
Congress's Role in Media Rights Consolidation
00:26:11
Speaker
it is. And I think we spend a lot of time lobbying in D.C. and um and in our conversations with ah Congressmen and women. I think, you know, there's a lot of complexity to the bills that are out there. And a lot of the things that are in those bills are not things that Congress really needs to meddle in. And I all rules and transfer portal rules and things that I think folks in college athletics and current student athletes understand a lot more and could figure out on their own. Where we need help from Congress is always something that I like to say is is very simple. Preemption across all these state laws
00:26:50
Speaker
a way for athletes to have a voice as non-employees so that then at the school level, they can figure the things out I just mentioned like NIL, the portal, etc. And then lastly, if there was a consolidation of media rights for football, there needs to be protection for that so that it can be done and produce the bigger pie that can help everyone be able to win. But even if you had all those things and even if Congress acts and things move forward for the first time in DC after all these years of people trying to get them to move forward, there's this reality that there's going to have to be some sacrifice to get that centralized league to happen.
Cultural Challenges in Centralizing College Football
00:27:29
Speaker
um You know, one of my favorite shows is on the NFL Network. It's called the Football Life. And it talks about legends of the NFL.
00:27:38
Speaker
And there's a new one that just came out on Wellington Mara, whose family has owned my beloved New York Giants for a long time. And we're struggling right now, so please have mercy on us. um But it tells the story of the NFL being put together. And the Giants could have made a lot more money if they didn't agree to centralizing everything and letting the Packers make more money And in turn, they're making less. But they did it because they knew coming together could create something collectively that could be better for the whole league, right? um I won't make any annell and now analogists
00:28:21
Speaker
comparisons to Wellington Mayor, but there's people that just don't want that to happen and want to keep their lead. So like how do we even get to a place, even if Congress gives college athletics the protection, like how do you even get there where people are willing to take maybe a step backwards so the whole industry can take five steps forward. and And what you're describing is what every conference does, what the NCAA does, you know, whatever you have a range in the ecosystem, there's always push pull top and bottom. And I think this most recent conference realignment is a reflection of that. And I don't know that current thinking either at league or individual school levels is about how do we repair the greater good or make something bigger by building, but it's really a very much anything. It's reflective of kind of where we are as a culture, as a society that we got to do its best by
00:29:16
Speaker
our programs, our schools, and we're going to do that. Well, I think that one thing that can play into that to wrap us up is um that same desire to worry about my school is starting to play out at the conference level, right? We saw it with Clemson and Florida State, and I think every conference has schools that know they bring more value to the media deal that everybody equally shares in rather than some of the other schools in the league. And so Maybe that's a route to get there. Who knows? But it's I know something that you have to deal with regularly, so I wanted to to bring it up.
Conclusion and Subscription Encouragement
00:29:50
Speaker
And I just really appreciate you taking the time to to talk to me about these things and think people hearing from um somebody like yourself who's led multiple leagues that have different objectives and and is leading a league right now that's in the middle of a lot of the key issues in college athletics is super valuable. So thank you for giving us some wisdom today in this conversation.
00:30:12
Speaker
Well, thanks for having me, Jim, appreciate it. Great stuff from Gloria. I just appreciate that a commissioner of ah of a conference in the FBS can come on here and talk about these things.
00:30:25
Speaker
These are really big problems that her and her staff and her school's leadership are having to solve in real time. And her perspective on including the student athlete voice more is obviously what we're all about at athletes dot.org. And so really thankful that she spent time with us and thankful for you to give it a watch or listen. Make sure you're subscribed to continue doing that with new episodes and go back and listen to some of the previous ones with athletes like Malcolm Jenkins or Matt Barnes who hosts all the smoke or Jeffrey Kessler the lead attorney in the house settlement Sandy Barber who was an AD for 40 years We had some great guests and we'll have some great guests. So make sure you're subscribed on YouTube Apple and Spotify or Follow us on Instagram now. It's legal pod We share teasers from all of these different interviews so you can know what's coming next for everybody here on our team I'm Jim Cavell. Thank you
00:31:22
Speaker
for listening and watching this episode of Now It's Legal.