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The Spark It Podcast EP 20: Girls' Education in South Sudan │Clara Joan Mullai
26 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of The Spark It Podcast, Clara Joan Mullai, a women's advocate, shares her life story as a girl from South Sudan who fought to stay in school. Clara speaks about early marriage, dowry norms, period poverty, and weak school systems, and her pastor father, who protected her from early marriage and championed her education. We discuss parental support, pads and basics, mentorship, and programs like Girls Education South Sudan (GESS), as well as her mantra of resilience, hope, and hard work. Listen to hear how educating girls can transform families and empower entire communities.
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Transcript
The Lifeline of Education: A Parent's Wisdom
00:00:00
Speaker
But at some point, I really realized education is everything because every time my dad would talk to us, he would say, one day if I am not around, your peppers will be the one fighting for you because I will one day not be able to provide for you. I will not be able to feed you.
Introducing Spark It Podcast & Clara Joan Mulaie
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Spark It podcast, where we explore stories, experiences, and insights that spark a fire within, so you can make your next move. Today's episode takes us to South Sudan, a country rich in culture, resilience, yet one where many girls are still denied a very basic right, the right to education.
00:00:39
Speaker
In a society where women are often expected to marry young and remain at home, pursuing higher education can feel like an impossible dream, but not for our guests. Meet Clara Joan Mulaie, a young South Sudanese woman who is pushing the limits and pursuing her dreams.
00:00:56
Speaker
She's an advocate for women in empowerment and believes that education is key for every woman. Clara has defied her odds and will be joining Makere University to pursue the much coveted tertiary education ah in quantity survey.
00:01:10
Speaker
And her
Clara's Educational Journey & Challenges
00:01:11
Speaker
journey is not just personal, it's symbolic for every girl, for the thousands of girls who are still waiting for a chance to learn, to grow and to lead. In this conversation, we will dive deep into why so many women in South Sudan are still disenfranchised when it comes to education and what stands in their way and most importantly, how we can begin to change that.
00:01:32
Speaker
Clara, welcome to the Spark It podcast. Thank you. Thank you actually for making the time. We're excited to have you here. Yes, so yeah, I think we will just get started. Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about yourself. Maybe give us a background of your story, your upbringing, your upbringing here, either in South Sudan or here in Uganda, and your journey to, you know, pursuing education and ah higher education for that matter.
00:02:02
Speaker
oh Okay. ah oh ah My name is Clara Johanmulai, as you just said.
Father's Support Against Societal Norms
00:02:08
Speaker
um i I am a South Sudanese, a very proud South Sudanese actually.
00:02:14
Speaker
i I have, my father is Ekuku by tribe and then my mother is Amari from Ajumani, Uganda. Yeah. So, but I grew up with my, with my dad because my mom broke up with my dad.
00:02:27
Speaker
Okay. They divorced when I was still young. And so I, all the, all of, all, all my journey, was with my dad. So I, I have, I've just been with him.
00:02:37
Speaker
He was the brain behind everything
Cultural Barriers to Education for South Sudanese Girls
00:02:40
Speaker
concerning me. Actually, ah many people say I'm a daddy's girl. And so I, I say yes to that because I have been with him all my life. And so I, I am a daddy's girl for sure.
00:02:51
Speaker
And so about my education, and I started my primary in Harvesters, South Sudan, EA, before I came to Uganda in 2016 joined Golden Treasure in Arua.
00:03:05
Speaker
And then I completed my PLE because I was just from South Sudan and so my performance was not very good. I got a second, I joined St. Mary's at Diofe Gals.
00:03:16
Speaker
in Arua as well.
The Impact of Educating Women
00:03:18
Speaker
And so I completed my S4 from there with a first grade. And so I got a scholarship with Leadership Academy of South Sudan for Africa at Nimle.
00:03:27
Speaker
So I joined there for the two years. And so I completed from there my A level. So I'll be joining to the University Makere very shortly.
00:03:38
Speaker
Shortly, yeah. So that's the whole education. And for for my growth, I grew up with my dad, as I said earlier on, like it has been hard on him. My dad is a pastor.
00:03:49
Speaker
and And so pastors, they don't get salaries. They don't get stuff. And so for us, we just we just rely on the grace of God. And God has been faithful. He has just been providing every time. And my dad has been pushing us throughout till this year.
00:04:03
Speaker
ah well Do you have other siblings? Yeah, i have. Oh, wow. It looks like your father has played such a key role. Like he has been sort of your inspiration and somebody that anchors you through like this journey and your education. Could you tell us a little bit more in the context of, because sometimes in some communities, you find that the challenge of why girls don't even attain an education is because maybe even from where they come from,
00:04:28
Speaker
their parents either do not even already believe in that education. How has that been for
Cultural Norms and Early Marriage as Barriers
00:04:33
Speaker
you? And especially in the context of your dad, because he looks like to be your biggest supporter.
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, actually my, uh, my dad, and my dad is my role model. I can say that before I, before getting external role models at home, my dad is my role model because, uh,
00:04:51
Speaker
As I lived with him, he kept encouraging us about education. Sincerely, I didn't i didn't even face those pressures of marriage stuff because dad was always there. He did not want anyone to talk about marriage next to us because he feels his girls should study. Because all of us are girls.
00:05:09
Speaker
We are like seven girls. We only have a boy, Juan. And so he would push us to education so much. And so he has been my role model internally when it comes to home.
00:05:20
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's a really good thing. I think more dads out here should support their kids through school. And it's actually very interesting to know that you have like so many other sisters and then only one brother and your
Basic Needs as Educational Barriers
00:05:32
Speaker
dad is seeing you guys through this whole process.
00:05:35
Speaker
That's a very inspiring journey. So why in your own personal opinion, why do you think education is so important, for example, for you, for your community and for your country?
00:05:47
Speaker
Okay, for me, I think education is very important for every woman because the there is a say that if you educate a woman, you educate the nation because a lady will always come back to support that family where she grows up from and it will not only be the family the family because when the lady comes back, she comes with power, with a lot of confidence and when she builds the family, she goes out to the other people and encourages people.
00:06:14
Speaker
And also a lady, when you educate a lady sincerely, i feel I feel the whole nation is educated
Empowerment Through Education
00:06:20
Speaker
because a lady can can have the heart to to to encourage others.
00:06:25
Speaker
Because when I get educated, my siblings who are following me will look at me and say, hey, Joanna's gone to a degree. So what what am I still doing behind here? At least I have to follow her.
00:06:35
Speaker
So I feel educat educating a lady is that important in a way that it develops the whole community. Like everybody gets encouraged because ladies go through a lot. And so when a lady gets done with education, there' that's a serious thing.
00:06:49
Speaker
oh And also I think also in the context of your community where you come from, the fact that already a lot of young girls don't get access to education that easily. So it means if you're able to break all those barriers and achieve that level of education in the context of even tertiary education, then it means you're already inspiring a whole generation.
00:07:08
Speaker
As you've said, it's like people are like, yeah, I want to be Clara. Yeah. That's a really good thing. Oh, oh wow. So ah as I have said, in the context of South Sudan, it seems like a lot of kids young kids and especially young women miss out ah on an education.
00:07:24
Speaker
Could you probably give us like a reality check of what it looks like for young girls in South Sudan? What does access for education look like for most of them? And especially in places where there's more or they're affected by conflict?
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, actually, ah education in South Sudan, generally, it's not that good. Like education setting is not very good. Like when you compare South Sudan to other countries, you find out that the education in South Sudan is not very good. Like we don't have ah real professional teachers. Sometimes in South Sudan, you find out that these teachers who, these guys who just finished senior six, they go to South Sudan and they get employed in the education sector. And so we are taught by people who are not experienced very well.
00:08:06
Speaker
And so those, those people, those students in South
Roles of Government and Communities in Supporting Education
00:08:10
Speaker
Sudan, they go through a lot because the, the, the people who teach them are not experienced. And so they are, they are not, they are not opened up to, to quality education, but also girls in South Sudan, they, they,
00:08:23
Speaker
they they have a lot of difficulties because the parents themselves, they're even restraining the girls. Like they want the girls to stay at home, learn this, learn how to keep a man, learn how to work.
00:08:34
Speaker
and And so parents parents don't allow their children even to go to school because they look at girls as dowry. In South Sudan, sincerely, mostly they look at girls as dowry. They'll see their girl growing. this There's a tendency where if a girl starts menstruating, there's a way the the parents start celebrating because they know...
00:08:52
Speaker
we're already going to start attracting men to come home for for the girl. And so they look at girls as dowry. for For that reason, they don't even waste time to take girls to school because they feel the girls should just be preparing themselves for those for for marriage.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, oh wow, that's actually a ah really big barrier to education for young girls. So it means
Resilience and Support in Overcoming Barriers
00:09:13
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ah in this context, by the time probably, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, does it mean like by the time you are sort of 15 years old, because at that age at least you've started your menses, does it mean by that time there's already girls who could already be married somewhere?
00:09:26
Speaker
There are girls who are married at 15, even 14. As long as you already have some breasts, you have started menstruating, yeah, a guy can come for you and they marry you. And also there's a tendency in South Sudan where they book.
00:09:38
Speaker
So they look at a girl. If a girl is growing at a certain stage, and then a man can come home and say, this one will be my wife. And so the parents know that this girl is growing to be to be his wife.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah. So a girl of 15, 14 is already having a husband. They're there in South Sudan. Wow. So it's like it's a culture thing also. Yeah. In some cultures it exists, but in others it just happens.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. People say it's by mistake, but the mistakes. Wow. Wow. That's actually very interesting and concerning. Wow.
00:10:16
Speaker
i I don't even know. You know, like I would say in our context, like for example, sorry to insert our problems in Kenya, but yeah Kenya, I think has made a bit of progress.
00:10:26
Speaker
There was a time also in some communities, there's a community I worked with, there are POCOT people. Sometimes when girls could get to that age,
Advice for Young Girls: Education is Key
00:10:35
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as you've said, of you're 15, you're 13, you're men's age started, somebody has already booked you or you're going to go through something like FGM.
00:10:42
Speaker
And then before you know it, early marriage. And by the time I went to work there, the girls we were working with, you realize by the time somebody is 20, they have four kids. it's It's the same for South Sudan in that context. It happens.
00:10:57
Speaker
When I went back to South Sudan 2020, I went back to South Sudan and I got most of the girls I left there during the war. I came here and left them in South Sudan.
00:11:09
Speaker
I got some with two or three kids and and I was with none. Like there was nothing. this deserve But they they were already having two to three kids. So you imagine those are girls of around 18, 19.
00:11:21
Speaker
nineteen So in this context, probably if you also stayed behind, the probability of being swallowed in that, whatever would have been high. Yeah, it would be very high because because there's also a rape case during the war.
00:11:34
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's true. Oh, wow. That's... I feel like that's a lot of
Vision for Educated, Self-Sufficient Women
00:11:41
Speaker
barriers, honestly, for a girl, which is I am very impressed by your journey and also very inspired by the fact that your dad prioritized you guys so that you could receive an education because, as you said, it's ah very important.
00:11:54
Speaker
Wow. ah So could you share like a moment in your journey when you realized education could be your way out or the way forward for you? Okay, like ah I studied all my life, I've been studying and I've been pushed, like like I was pushed to education, right?
00:12:14
Speaker
in in In my primary, though there was a there was a time I didn't like going to school also. There was also that time because in the beginning of schools, you would not like it. so So I was pushed by my father so much to school.
00:12:27
Speaker
up to Up to the time I came to Uganda. In South Sudan, I was just going to school, but it was just because dad wants me to go to school. But when I came to Uganda, I realized people putting energy into education.
00:12:40
Speaker
I saw people reading like reals just just a child, but it's reading, it's concentrating. And I was like, what? These kids can read without energy. without their parents telling them to read.
00:12:52
Speaker
And so i i I really started reading. I started thinking about it and I would put efforts a little, little, but at some point I really realized education is everything because every time my dad would talk to us, he would say, one day if I am not around,
00:13:07
Speaker
Your peppers will be the one fighting for you because i will one day not be able to provide for you. I will not be able to feed you.
Using Experience to Mentor and Inspire
00:13:14
Speaker
And so you will have to suffer for that. So you will have to look for what you want.
00:13:19
Speaker
So your peppers will be the ones to fight for you. As per now, he's still there feeding us. But... When he will not be around, it will be us feeding ourselves. So I would think about those things when I go back to school and I'd really put effort in reading because I knew one day my dad would not be around and it would be their purpose.
00:13:39
Speaker
So it's like the future is in my hands. Yeah. kind of thing yeah That's amazing. Honestly, I feel like that's ah a really good way to push yourself out of a comfort zone. And also when you realize that there's other people cheerleading you and it's your journey and they're supporting you, then it only like makes a lot of sense. Wow.
00:13:57
Speaker
Honestly, your journey is very inspiring already. Thank you. Okay, so ah you mentioned, let's go back to why girls in South Sudan, for example, yeah most of them end up being out of school.
00:14:08
Speaker
we We mentioned a little bit the context of culture, but what could be the other factors that enable the whatever girls, you know, like become a hindrance for girls not to get access to and yeah an education system?
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, I also think the the basic needs,
Teaching Basic Skills for Independence
00:14:27
Speaker
the the basic needs, because ladies, they need a lot. As we go to school, we shall be needing pads, we shall be needing buns but ladies need a lot.
00:14:39
Speaker
Like generally for a lady to go to school is is a lot for the parent. That's why most parents say ah boys are easy to go to school because boys can, you can just give them a hundred thousand and they buy what they want and it's done.
00:14:50
Speaker
But a girl shopping list is around 200 and it is a lot. And so most parents in South Sudan, they they look at that as a lot of expense on just a girl. And there's a way girls are seen as inferior gender in South Sudan.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah. And, and, and so without the basic needs, you cannot go to
A Message of Hope and Encouragement for Young Women
00:15:10
Speaker
school. You not feel comfortable. but Imagine me in class, I'm seated. And then my men's is that I don't have pads in the dormitory or I don't have pads even at home.
00:15:19
Speaker
And so I have to go home from the school with that shame because people are at school, you know, at school, Students will look at you as if, ah, why did this one leave herself to get very dirty?
00:15:29
Speaker
And so you go home with that shame. You you you get traumatized. When you reach home, you don't even feel like coming back to school because you come back to school, people remind you of what happened. And so you have to stay at home for two or three days to first finish your periods and then you you come back the next time. But you also feel that even if people are not talking, you still feel that surrounding is not okay.
00:15:51
Speaker
And so I think basic needs, ah it's ah It's also something that hinders the girls from going to school. Basic needs, the schools are not enough because we have we have very few schools in South Sudan.
00:16:03
Speaker
Like when you look at South Sudan, currently I think we have only Juba University. That's the most popular university that I know. But when you come to secondaries, secondaries are also very few. And primaries, primaries are also few. Like in South Sudan, we have shortage of those education stuff. Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker
Sometimes even in a school, you can go to school, there are no laboratories for for for the practicals. The students just study a theory of of of everything. Like instead of going for practicals, you're reading the procedures.
00:16:33
Speaker
And so you find yourself not performing well. Like students have a lot they they go through. But especially for the ladies, the needs. Ladies, if they don't have those needs, those basic needs, they cannot concentrate in school.
00:16:46
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah, you know, you've just reminded me. I have where i have another podcast. I did ah ah an episode on period shame and period poverty because when i as ah when I was growing up, I did experience a little bit of that.
00:17:00
Speaker
And the way you've said you're in school, you're a girl, your messages are here. The next thing you know, you are standing up, you've soiled your clothes. It's just very shameful. So you are like, I'll stay home until these periods are done.
00:17:14
Speaker
By the time you come, people are already way ahead of you. So you are you already struggling. Yeah, I see. I see. And then ah at that point again, there's already somebody who has come to your home. They're like, this is the one I want. This is the one I want. You go to school knowing that you're even studying for nothing. Because anytime this guy can come and take you away.
00:17:36
Speaker
So there's no motivation. Yes, there's no motivation. Because if I go to school and somebody had already booked me, anytime that person can come to my parents and say, I am not ready to take Clara.
00:17:48
Speaker
And my parents would just go and pick me from school and take me away. There was a time in a Diofe when I was in around senior three or senior throat two. There were these two Dinka ladies in our in in our school.
00:18:00
Speaker
They were netballers. But there was a time like when it was approaching the UNEP,
00:18:07
Speaker
Their parents just came to school and they were like, these girls are needed in South Sudan. And so we were like, why are they needed in South Sudan? Like they're almost sitting for their exams. No, they are needed in South Sudan. And I was like, oh, these ones are already going. They are off.
00:18:23
Speaker
And they were taken sincerely the next time we had a wedding. Wedding was done and they were already married off. And the guys who come are really rich guys. They come, they go outside, they they walk outside, they come with a lot of money and they manipulate our parents and then just give the money and takes their girls away.
00:18:41
Speaker
And the girls were at age six, they were already finishing. And do you think maybe in your experience or what you have seen, despite these people being like rich people, ah do you think they ah they end up treating them well?
00:18:54
Speaker
Well, ah for the Incas, I have never seen them mistreating their wives though. Yeah. most Most of them, they take care of their wives, but although when they marry them, they take them out.
00:19:07
Speaker
So I really don't know what happened out there. I don't know what happens when they go outside. Outside in the context of where? Like they go to US, Canada, because some of them are working. So they take their women.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah. So when they go there now, we don't know what happens that side. But Dinkas generally, have never seen them mistreating their wives. They just leave them. Yeah. But I think at the end of the day, but as you said, today it's very important for a girl to receive at least the most basic education.
00:19:38
Speaker
So that in case of anything, they can fall back the way you said your dad encourages you. They are like, if I'm not here, then this gives you a platform for you to work with.
00:19:48
Speaker
And I would think even for them, despite for me, in my personal opinion, i would probably think even if you're married to even the richest man on earth, what if something happened to them? Then what's next for you as a woman?
00:20:00
Speaker
And if you already even have children, which is why for me, would think that also having the most basic education is important. Yeah, but for us in Taslan, sometimes we think the ladies should not even work because sometimes the dinka tribe, they stop their wives from working.
00:20:18
Speaker
So you come home and generally just take care of kids, give birth, take care of kids. They stop the ladies from working. It's just a reason that I see some dinka ladies working. But those days, they really stop them from working.
00:20:30
Speaker
So this is actually literally a very cultural thing. And to some extent, maybe it has worked well. Okay. hey But still, I think there could be the idea of just having a basic education. Yeah, basic education, at least i is some small papers.
00:20:47
Speaker
Oh, wow. So ah how do you, for example, navigate these expectations of maybe when girls are growing up, they are expected when they reach maybe a certain age, You're expected to either get married or you are supposed to take over domestic chores at home and stuff like that.
00:21:03
Speaker
What like helped you navigate that process to get to a place where you're able to even prioritize education instead of something like marriage? Okay. for For me, as I said, I i grew up in in in a family where education is encouraged, right?
00:21:20
Speaker
Although I would see people outside not encouraging education, there are parents who who who think marriage is better than education. And so i would I would see them, but there's there's a way as kids, we don't we don't have what to say.
00:21:35
Speaker
You cannot say anything. Like you just see it happening and then you keep quiet. But for me personally, I knew... within myself that I have to change something. i need to I need to go to that level because because there is a time that reached the time in our family where my dad had to pick his graduation coat for his degree. He would hang it up so that you will feel the pressure.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah, you would feel the pressure that I also need to to wear that going. So I feel i i i feel I passed through it because of the push.
00:22:10
Speaker
Because of the push, I was pushed a lot, although my surroundings were pressuring ladies to get married and stuff, but the family I was in was very hard. it it's It just wanted a a education.
00:22:24
Speaker
Honestly, that example you've given of your dad hanging the graduation coat and all that, I think even me, if I was in your shoes, every time you walk around it, you're like, yeah. You walk around in the sitting room and look at the photo. It's like, this is the inspiration.
00:22:36
Speaker
This is where I need to go. Oh, wow. Your dad, like I think he's actually such an inspiration and he has played such a key role. i Honestly, on my part, i would say I'm really proud of the work he has done. um raising new girls and all that and encouraging you to pursue education and stuff like that.
00:22:53
Speaker
And that was good. It was a good thing to hang the coat. Oh, wow. So, um, a lot of girls, as you've some of you who are able to get parents who understand the, whatever the importance of education,
00:23:08
Speaker
literally escape that cycle of poverty and also the cycle of being disenfranchised from getting an education. But then again, there's so many other girls out there who are literally going through that.
00:23:20
Speaker
It's either they get up married early, they don't get those opportunities, they have no hope. What impact does denying girl education have on their personal development, in your opinion, and the progress of their communities, their families? Yeah.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think if a girl is stopped from education, it first of all hinders their understanding because because ladies have a lot to learn in life. Sincerely, if if you get to schools, year you you were taught a lot of things.
00:23:52
Speaker
They teach you even how to use pads were taught at school. In primary, they used to take us and teach us those stuff. And so a lady who does not go through that, that level of education, and at least she misses how to use even a pad.
00:24:05
Speaker
Like, like they they don't know how to use those things. Now, assuming you get, you get pad for a lady and then you give her the pads and she does not know how to use it. You, you can imagine the complications. So I feel when a lady is not educated or when a lady does not pass through a level of education, and they, they,
00:24:24
Speaker
they miss out other things that they need to know in life. Because have also come across this essay this saying that sex reduces menstrual pain.
00:24:36
Speaker
you You hear those those those type of compliments in the community. They tell you, ah when when you go for sex during your menstrual, it reduces. Now a lady who has not gone to school, you tell her this, the lady will think it's true.
00:24:50
Speaker
And then still so maybe if she has a boyfriend or stuff, she'll go and and try. and and then And then at the end, the the lady gets used to those stuff and then gets pregnant, that's right, and it's done.
00:25:03
Speaker
So for me, I think if a lady goes to school, she gets the opportunity to to get exposed. In school, first of all, people sit in groups, talk, people talk about their experiences, and then you get to learn that, hey, there's something like this.
00:25:16
Speaker
convey It is not true that that that that sex reduces pain. There are other alternatives. You can take maybe medicines or home warm water or stuff like that. you can get You can get those things in the schools because at home, in the community we live in, people speak anything anyhow.
00:25:33
Speaker
And so when you when you don't know how to differentiate, you will just get consumed into what they are saying. So I think the ladies who are not getting educated, they go through a lot.
00:25:44
Speaker
They don't get exposed. And then the other thing is their skills are hindered. Because in schools, we have things like sports. We have talent, all stuff.
00:25:55
Speaker
And then you you as a lady, you will also venture into some of those things. And then you will realize your talent there. And then a lady who is not going to school gets... You're just at home. um You will youll not even know what you're supposed to do, what you what you have within yourself, your potentials. You will not know your potentials.
00:26:13
Speaker
Maybe... Maybe if you go to school and then you try something, obviously it's not like you just try what you know. You try something and then you fail and then you say, I think I'm better in this. You try that one day until ah you realize where you're supposed to be and then you know your potential. But I think ladies who are held behind at home, they are really missing a lot because they don't get to develop themselves. They don't get to know their skills, what they can do and what they cannot do.
00:26:38
Speaker
And then it affects the general community because when ladies are not educated, Women who are not educated, they come up and then they grow their children. They develop also with that mindset. Like well like when a lady is is is educated, assuming mean you have a woman who is educated, your children come home from school.
00:26:57
Speaker
they spoke you they They speak to them in English. At least the mother is there to do for them their homework. You are at work. Your woman does the homework for the kids. Your woman teaches the kids how to speak English, some of those simple, simple English songs.
00:27:12
Speaker
The kids grab things very fast when they go to school. Even they are taught something that their mother had taught them before. and they And everything is is is easy. But I think if we stop the ladies from getting educated, and then we are going to get married to women who are not educated, and then our kids will also get be affected by by by the by the ignorance of their family. So I just feel we should encourage ladies to to to go to school. Sincerely, women will get educated because an uneducated woman develops the whole nation.
00:27:45
Speaker
like Like a strong woman develops the whole nation. That's what I think. Wow. I like the fact that you've talked about a lot of missed opportunities. Like if you don't educate a woman, there's all these things that follow.
00:27:58
Speaker
There's the level of ignorance definitely will go high. Because, i mean, the women are usually the first naturals of their own children before school becomes a thing. So imagine if you educate a woman already but before the child even goes to school, they already know the most basic things because they have learned from their mother, which is why it's important.
00:28:18
Speaker
So honestly, and then all these other missed opportunities you've said, like the ignorance leads to, you'll be told and the in the so town center, they're like, oh, you know, your periods and all that. And then before you know it, you're now pregnant.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's sad. and that there was somebody who tried to tell me that when I finished high school, now that you've talked about being educated, yeah there was this guy i had a crush on.
00:28:42
Speaker
And then they told me when I finished high school, they were like, you know, if men don't have sex, they usually get back pain. Yeah. Backache. I've never heard of that also. Yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
They get a backache. So you can imagine if if ah now you're ignorant rant and you don't know but as you say it, then it means the next thing you know, you are start you start practicing.
00:29:06
Speaker
They're like, eh. Yeah, honestly, the lies, the lies can be right. Yeah, I know. It's a lot. It's a lot. Wow.
00:29:16
Speaker
So do you think the like ah in your context, do you think there's more awareness right now around the importance educating girls, especially in South Sudan? Or do you think there's more that needs to be done?
00:29:29
Speaker
i think I think there's more to be done though the though currently we have we have those those NGOs that are advocating for education. and Yeah, like the guests.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, they there's that guest and then they they give money to South Sudan ladies. So there is a way. In South Sudan, every month they come to schools, the ladies who are registered. GAS is a program? Sorry. Yeah, GAS is a program.
00:29:59
Speaker
Like it's it what? Girls' Education, South Sudan, something like that. Yeah, but it's GAS. So every time, every month they come, they give girls money. So in in that way, the girl gets encouraged. Like when you receive money, you plan on how to buy your books, maybe buy pads for yourself, buy pens.
00:30:20
Speaker
And so there's there's a way the girl plans her whole month. using that money. And so it encourages the ladies. Most ladies go to school because they they have all those things. You have books, you have pens, and then when you have menses, you have your pads. And so everything is okay. So I think that program is really doing a lot in South Sudan and it's encouraging.
00:30:41
Speaker
And then also these other schools most In most schools in South Sudan right now, they encourage girls so much. Like when you go to classes, they they talk about girls, girl child education. this There's that program where they come, they pick girls out of class.
00:30:57
Speaker
They sit with the ladies separately, encourage them and stuff. And so it motivates the girls a lot to to go to school because girls, when you don't talk to them, they will think in their mind and implement and everything. It's really, yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker
So with something like gas, it means that the fact that you've been given money to get those supplies, you don't have to worry about anything. Because that those are the things, as you said, in terms of even men's job or whatever periods.
00:31:26
Speaker
um it's It's one of the things that keeps girls out of school because you can't afford a pad. But now you can afford the pad, now you only have to worry about, did I read? Yeah. ah that's I think that's a really good program and maybe even more people should actually do that.
00:31:41
Speaker
and But I also liked the fact that you talked about, I think let's call it mentorship. Like the more people talk to young girls, the more they land up realizing the benefit of having access to an education or even probably pursuing that education.
00:31:55
Speaker
For you in this context, I think you you are an inspiration for other young girls from South Sudan. The fact that you've already gone through all those processes and now you're joining the university to pursue your degree in quantity survey, that's a very big accomplishment.
00:32:11
Speaker
Do you think there's something you could do in your capacity to encourage like more girls to actually pursue their dreams? Is there something you're doing or you would think you would want to do? ah Personally, I just, I said it yesterday and I'm saying it right now that every time I get the opportunity to talk to ladies, I i talk because I feel, I feel maybe my words can do something in somebody's life.
00:32:37
Speaker
Maybe if I say something and then, and then, and then she hears and then she understands. And then also i feel as if my life can't speak because every time you do something right, somebody looks at it and then they say, I want to also be like Clara.
00:32:53
Speaker
I also want to go to the level where Clara has gone. and and And if I am to get if im to get an opportunity, sincerely, to gather people and talk, I would gather women and talk to them. And and that is that is one tool that I feel I can use, my voice and and my words.
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, because there's there's no other way. Yeah. and earnestly you've said do you want to use your voice and your wordsd i feel like the the two interactions i've had from the we met yesterday yeah i feel like you are actually a very gifted person on there's a lot you could tell young people and especially young women For me, I would probably want to just encourage you to actually take that up.
00:33:34
Speaker
And I have done a lot of mentorship programs in the past. you could you could um You could work with churches because a lot of times people always end up in church at some point. So you could you could collaborate with churches, collaborate with organizations like Patrick's organization called SESI.
00:33:50
Speaker
you could do ah You could collaborate with such organizations and you could also collaborate with schools. So you, you, and even communities, like maybe you have an area, I don't know whether Uganda is area chiefs or whatever, like they probably there's a way.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah. So there's a, yeah, there's a way people gather somewhere, right? Yeah. You could find as a way of inserting yourself into that. and saying that the next time there's a meeting, I want to be there, I want to talk to the women, I want to talk to the girls. So you, with the way you said you use your words and your voice, that's how you you start. Like you start from the very local level.
00:34:24
Speaker
Okay. You start mobilizing, meet five girls, talk to them, make it a weekly thing. Before you know it, you're now meeting 500 girls. You're going to a big school. You are going to a big one. You are partnered with a big organization. You're like, I'm coming there for a mentorship session.
00:34:40
Speaker
We are going to talk about stuff like reproductive health. Okay. You're going to talk about relationships. You're going to talk about the importance of an education for girls, why they need to even pursue, whether it's vocational training, whether it's going to the university, depending on the level that somebody is at.
00:34:56
Speaker
That is how you use your, you use your voice. Yeah. Yeah. So you should fight. You see people like Patrick? Talk to him. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Talk to such people and collaborate with them.
00:35:09
Speaker
And before you know it, you'll be having a lot of impact because your voice and your words, sometimes you don't need so many resources. It's what you have at that particular moment, your voice, your words, and your time. There is this program I was in. They used to say giving back to community doesn't have to be ah too much.
00:35:28
Speaker
you could They you used to encourage us to give back to the community in three ways. They would say you could use your time, you could use your talent, or you could use your treasure, which could be money. So if you don't have the money, you can use your talent, which could be your voice,
00:35:42
Speaker
and all these things you are going through, or you could use your time now. You have time, you have the talent, the money will come along. And then before you know it, you were encouraging a lot of girls, maybe who are at the verge of saying that they're going to drop out of school, you see?
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, so you should do that. you're not doing, you should definitely do. yeah Oh, wow. And what do you think are the practical steps at a community or government or grassroot ah grassroots level that can help more girls stay in school and even dream so big and achieve their dreams?
00:36:16
Speaker
What can be done? For me, ah I think we should provide for the girls. We should give them what they really need, the basic things that they need. We should provide for them because um I've seen many girls go go into into a situation where they They don't have those basics.
00:36:38
Speaker
And so they they they get into into men. I don't know whether you're understanding me. Where like a lady a lady a lady has a boyfriend, yeah? You have a boyfriend. And then you don't have pads.
00:36:51
Speaker
you Your pants are getting weary. And then a lot of things are missing. And then you call home and home is like, there's no money. There's no stuff. And then the girl finds herself in a situation of asking from the man.
00:37:03
Speaker
And then the the the man... Men usually, they they they they take advantage of such situations because when they when you don't have, you're desperate for that thing and then they they will take that as an advantage.
00:37:17
Speaker
So I think as parents or as the community, we should provide for our girls. Because if our girls are given everything that they need sincerely, you will not have a reason to go out and and and start messing and start asking for things from from a boyfriend or stuff because your parents give you everything.
00:37:37
Speaker
You don't have that reason. So I think providing for the girls is one important thing. And then the other thing is talking to the girls. ladies Let parents talk to their girls. Sincerely, if not for for dad talking to us every time, I don't think even we shall be here by this time. yeah but So i I think talking to a girl is okay.
00:37:57
Speaker
Maybe there are parents who care in their children, but I think also caring in a child at a certain age should stop. Because at a certain age, the the girl needs to be talked to.
00:38:07
Speaker
You tell her the reality. You tell her what happens. When you sleep with the man, you get pregnant. When you do this, this happens. Because we should not be sugar-coating. Like there are parents who come around that this is bad. This is not okay. You you just move around with the words like this.
00:38:24
Speaker
Tell them the real thing. If you go with the man, you get pregnant. If you joke in school, you will fail. That is the truth. And so we should talk to our girls straightforward and we should tell them the truth so that the girls can get encouraged. When they go to school, they know if I mess here, this will happen to me.
00:38:43
Speaker
If I go with a man anyhow, I can get HIV. If I do this, I can get pregnant so that they can know those things. So I just think, The parents will keep talking to the girls as they provide for them. Girls need a lot. Girls need words. Girls need action.
00:38:59
Speaker
they They need follow up. And so the parents will do that. And I think ah if they do that, girls will will always we always make them proud. Wow.
00:39:11
Speaker
I think you have spoken ah so much to the most foundational level, like in the context of a family. If the family could take care of the needs of the girls from right there at home, then at the end of the day, it's very easy to prevent all these other things that follow.
00:39:29
Speaker
So if everybody from the very local level, like a family unit, they take responsibility and then it trickles maybe down to schools, to ah the community level, then it means these girls ah stand a better chance than if people are not taking care of them.
00:39:46
Speaker
That's like... That's very true. I agree with you 100%. Communities will also support their girls, by the way. Yeah, because in a community where everyone feels it's our responsibility to raise this girl, and then the girl will grow up ah grow up knowing a lot of things, you know, because everyone corrects you.
00:40:06
Speaker
You will get to know. But in our current communities, People are relaxed. People just look at you. Even if you're going in a wrong way, people just look at you. So-and-so's daughter, Mola's daughter is doing this, but they keep quiet. They don't correct you.
00:40:21
Speaker
they they They just talk and keep quiet. But me, I feel if the community comes together and correct the child, the child will know what is right because there are some things that our parents don't see, but neighbors see.
00:40:34
Speaker
So I feel if if if the community comes together and work with parents, then and then everything will be okay. Makes a lot of sense. Wow. That's actually, you're speaking to, right, to the people that need literally need to take action.
00:40:49
Speaker
And if they if everybody, like, gets involved and they play their part, you know, there's this thing that happens sometimes in communities. Like maybe somewhere, as you said, when you're not connected, something happens to you.
00:41:01
Speaker
And then people, they use you as an example. Yeah, they'll be...
00:41:05
Speaker
We'll be using you as an example. Hey, did you see what happened to her? Don't be like somebody's daughter. is it Yeah, yeah, honestly. But if somebody was like, hey, you're going wrong.
00:41:19
Speaker
This is not the way to do things. Honestly, think whatever you're saying is important. And I think initially I i remember in African traditional communities, I don't know what has changed, but the child used to be the child of the community.
00:41:30
Speaker
Everybody would literally correct you. But right now it's like people don't Even people don't want their children to be corrected. That's the problem nowadays. Because if you correct so somebody's child, you can, and then the parent will come like, why did you cane my child? Why didn't you re report to me and I deal with my own?
00:41:47
Speaker
you you see You see that everyone is selfish with their own children. And so even other people, they also fear. That's very true. So now for you right now, you you told me yesterday you'll be joining the University of Makire, I think by August, end of this month, I think.
00:42:05
Speaker
Uh-uh. In the beginning of the month. Right now. like i then Right now, people for orientation. You're supposed to be in school. I'm telling you. Okay, right. So you'll be joining Makerere to study quantity survey. What do you hope your journey symbolizes for the girls out here, especially for the South Sudanese girls?
00:42:25
Speaker
What do you think your journey symbolizes for them? Okay. My journey, I will describe it in three words. One is resilience. Yeah, that that is one of the things I've put as my core because every time I fall down, I keep standing up because I know it happens.
00:42:45
Speaker
there's There's no life that is smooth. Even even Christian life is also difficult. cut there's There's that Christian life where you fall down, you sin today, tomorrow, you ask for forgiveness and same is to success.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, same is to today you will get a 20. But if you remain in that 20, that is where you will end. But but but if if you get 20 today and you know that I need to stand up and step up from here, you can't.
00:43:16
Speaker
you change what happened that made you to get 20. Trust me, the next time you'll get a 40. And then the next time you get a 50 and a 60, and by the end of it all, you'll find yourself excelling. So my journey is full of resilience.
00:43:31
Speaker
And then the other thing is hope because I have hope in myself, but I also hope in God so much. I have faith in God because I know that God is the center of everything.
00:43:42
Speaker
God is the one who who causes me to do everything. God is my strength because without God, sincerely, I would also not be here because as I said earlier on, The education life was a struggle.
00:43:55
Speaker
A lot was happening, but God kept pushing me, going with me throughout that journey. and And up to now, it has it is it is just all about God. And then the last is hard work.
00:44:07
Speaker
Like we we have to work hard. Every time we sit down, less determine less less let's think about what we did yesterday that we think we are not supposed to do.
00:44:17
Speaker
So if you think about what you did yesterday, like you sit down and think, but yesterday people were reading and I was in the dormitory sleeping. Was it right? And then when you sit and evaluate yourself and find out that you're supposed to do something better.
00:44:31
Speaker
So every time you keep working hard, you will succeed. So hard work, resilience and hope it brings success. Resilience, hope and hard work. Yeah. That's your summary. You can also add yours.
00:44:46
Speaker
No, no. It's all about you today. Okay. Mine, mine. Oh, wow. Yeah. But honestly, it's actually very inspiring, honestly. So people need to be resilient. They need to have the hope and they also need to put in the effort.
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah. That's what I'm getting from you. Oh, wow. So if you could speak directly to a young girl in South Sudan today. And even one maybe who right here in maybe Rhinocamp or something like that, one one who feels like her dreams are impossible, what would you say to them?
00:45:16
Speaker
ah would say to them that everything, everything is possible. Like when when a thought comes into your mind, if you don't put it into action, it does not happen.
00:45:28
Speaker
So every time you think about something, you need to put it into action. they this this there something there's There's a scripture, I think Philippians 4.13 or 4 something, it it says, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. So I feel i feel every time you you you go and do something, know that I am going to do this thing because it's God in me and it's God who strengthens me.
00:45:53
Speaker
And so when you're facing something, face with courage. Face it with determination, with hope. And so that thing will come to pass. So I feel as if if I am to be given a chance to speak to a lady, a young lady, I will just tell the person that everything is possible. As long as you put your effort, for as long as you put hope in it, everything can work out.
00:46:18
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's very true. And right now, if your dad would be would watch this episode, what's that one thing you would want to tell your dad about? I want to tell my dad that I'm so proud of him.
00:46:29
Speaker
My dad has been the best dad in the world. Actually, I say he's the best dad in the world because he has put a lot of effort into us. So, so much. So many people discouraged my dad because he was giving birth to ladies and and there was only one guy.
00:46:44
Speaker
And so people were like, but ladies, women, women, women are disappointing. Women can can just disappoint you anytime. And my dad put down his heart and he struggled very hard with all of us, like all. He put all his effort in us. Every time he tells us that we are his investments, that means he puts all his effort in us.
00:47:06
Speaker
Like our last born, she has disabilities, like, yeah, her legs and hands. but But my dad put all efforts in her. Up to now, she's in senior three, she's still striving just because dad is there to push her.
00:47:21
Speaker
And so I've seen in so many families, guys with disabilities being left at home. And so and so i feel I feel this is just the best dad to be pushing us throughout. I know, honestly. We give him his flowers, honestly. Yeah, man.
00:47:36
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah, and also to point out what you've said, in in families or even in communities, a lot of times people with disabilities, they're usually left behind in almost every aspect.
00:47:48
Speaker
So to know that your dad is putting his best foot forward and making sure it's your sister. Yeah. that she's Yeah, your last one, that she's receiving the best education out there. That's a very ah great inspiration.
00:48:01
Speaker
And somebody who is showing that it's good to be inclusive and to take care of everyone and not to leave anyone behind. Wow, inspiring. So what's yeah as we conclude, what's your a bigger vision for the future for girls and women men in South Sudan?
00:48:18
Speaker
And how do you see yourself contributing to that change? ah My bigger vision for for for women in South Sudan is just to ensure that they get educated in any way.
00:48:29
Speaker
Though not going through primary, secondary, early level and stuff like that, university. I just hope that South Sudan women get the the chance to get skills, even easy skills, vocational skills.
00:48:43
Speaker
At least they do tailoring, they do those plating and stuff just to boost up their financial status. Because in in South Sudan, when when you look at South Sudan women, you you find out that it is rare that South Sudan woman will actually have a bank account.
00:48:59
Speaker
because Because most of the South Sudan women, they they are dependent wholly on their husbands. you You just sit at home and you wait but for for that man to bring for you the money.
00:49:10
Speaker
And so I feel, lit let them get something to do. Like, women should learn basic skills, even if they don't go through that process of education, because it is hard sometimes. so Parents might not be having the financial, yeah, to to to take them to school or stuff.
00:49:28
Speaker
But I think if they get those skills, lateing you can get some $2,000, $1,000 from it and stuff like that. You can save up money and then you can have some little money.
00:49:38
Speaker
Because these men that we're having right now, Men can change any time and a man can just decide overnight and the next morning yeah're yeahre you're out of the house.
00:49:50
Speaker
And imagine you're out of the house and you have kids and you don't have anything in your bank account or even your mobile money account. What will come out of that family? Like it will be, they will go through a a lot.
00:50:02
Speaker
So I just think, i I feel women should get the basic skills, even if not those complicated stuff. Yeah, but they should have the basic skills to support themselves first and then their kids and and even support these men.
00:50:18
Speaker
And because these men go through also a lot to get this money. And so when you're there to buy the food, the clothes for the kids, what the man does is just the school fees and stuff. So they support. That's why we are complex,
00:50:31
Speaker
a companion, ah helper. Women are called helpers. We're supposed to help the men too, but we also need to stand on our feet. So I think, I don't know what personally I will be doing.
00:50:44
Speaker
I don't know my my personal influence, but I just think, I just feel should be a motivation to them. ah Maybe my life should teach them something. I don't know how, but I just feel.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yes, you said, you already said your voice, your words. Yeah. And you meet them at the community level and talk to them and inspire them. That's more than enough. Wow.
00:51:06
Speaker
Thank you so much. Honestly, this has this has been very eye-opening conversation even for me. I feel like there's a lot of stuff from an outsider perspective that I don't know about South Sudan, which I've gotten to know. Even the cultural context of why maybe women and girls sometimes don't get the best of education out there from a cultural context, which I didn't know.
00:51:27
Speaker
But now I know. So thank you for sharing your insights and also for making the time to show up I like what is on your t-shirt, stronger women, stronger nations. Honestly, that's a very good slogan. I think I should put it on a t-shirt too.
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah. But thank you so much for making the time and also for speaking some power to what is happening in South Sudan in the context of women. And also what what can actually be done. I feel like this episode, once we share it, I feel like you should also share with the network so that other young girls out there can be inspired and realize the importance of an education and why they should actually pursue their dreams.
00:52:06
Speaker
We are proud of you from these at this at the Spark It podcast, honestly, for what you have done for yourself. And it's it also shows the the importance of a community that pushes for you and they're cheerleading you from maybe your father and the people around you. And that's what it takes for women to be empowered.
00:52:26
Speaker
So thank you. Thank you for also empowering us in that way. You're welcome. So yeah, so we are going to wind up the conversation there. Thank you, Clara. You're welcome. Yeah. So if you found this podcast episode inspiring, please follow us on our social media platforms at the Spark It podcast. You can also leave us a review and check us out on our podcasting platforms wherever you are listening from.
00:52:49
Speaker
Until the next time. Bye. by