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Kenya’s Gen Z Uprising: Protest, Power, and Hope
40 Plays10 days ago
On this episode of the Spark It Podcast, we talk about Kenya’s June 25th protests when young people filled the streets demanding justice, freedom, and better leadership. We explore what happened, why it matters, and how the youth are fighting for their future despite fear, violence, and silence from those in power. From police brutality to social activism, this is a deep, honest conversation about accountability, grief, and hope. The Gen Z are not backing down. Their voices are loud, clear, and courageous, and this episode shows why they won’t stop until real change happens.
#KenyaProtests #GenZVoices #June25Movement #FreedomOfSpeech #SparkItPodcast #YouthForChange #KenyaPolitics #JusticeForAll #ProtestToPower #AfricanYouthVoices
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Transcript
The Beginning of a Movement
00:00:01
Patrick Abure
On June 25, 2024, something shifted in Kenya. What started as a protest against the finance bill turned into a watershed moment. Young Kenyans, mostly Gen Z, filled the streets not just with chants and placards, but with courage, rage, and a hunger for justice and reforms.
00:00:20
Patrick Abure
They marched to the Kenyan parliament to make a point that reforms were needed and voting a representative or a member of parliament means they get to actually represent your views. They marched for more than tax reforms.
00:00:32
Patrick Abure
They marched for dignity, for a country that listens, for accountability, and for future they could be living. But in return, some paid with their lives. Since then, being Kenyan has meant living in fear, tension, abductions, and disappearances.
00:00:48
Patrick Abure
um and in action from those in power.
Freedom and Governance Issues
00:00:52
Patrick Abure
Tonight, we talk about it, about freedom, about grief, about being Kenyan in a time when speaking up can cost you everything.
00:01:01
Patrick Abure
Good governance and the fight against corruption. I'm your host, Helen Kimaru, and I'm joined by the incredible founder and host of Concerned Podcast, a podcast that covers trending global issues in politics, economics,
00:01:16
Patrick Abure
innovation, entertainment, and more while mentoring and providing a platform for young leaders. Emmanuel Taban is the host of this particular podcast.
00:01:27
Patrick Abure
Welcome to the Spark It podcast, Emmanuel, yet another time. How are you feeling today?
00:01:33
Emmanuel Taban
ah I'm good. i'm I'm feeling okay. And it's good to have you again on on your podcast. I'm excited. Thanks.
00:01:41
Patrick Abure
Yeah, thank you honestly for making time to come here and talk to us. And as I mentioned, you already have also your personal podcast and I hope yeah they our listeners and viewers get to actually go and see what you are up to because I feel like it's a very... you well-informed uh podcast and you're doing incredible work out there yeah and particularly today we will be because as ah as a political analyst yourself today we will be talking about the current issue facing kenyans and i would definitely love to hear more uh from an outside perspective what you think about what has happened since um
00:02:20
Patrick Abure
June 25th of 2024 to where we are at as a country and all the, you know, just have, give us what you, what you think or your sort of your point of view.
00:02:32
Patrick Abure
So um it's quite sad that as a country and as a Kenyan, I feel like it's quite a sad ah episode for me, knowing that since June June 25th 2024,
00:02:45
Patrick Abure
june twenty fifth the nine of twenty four A lot of young Kenyans have sort of lost their lives. Others have been ah abducted. and Others have disappeared. And a lot of stuff has been happening.
00:02:57
Patrick Abure
And the accountability has almost been at zero. So before we even get started, what do you remember, for example, vividly about that day and what has followed?
00:03:10
Emmanuel Taban
um i Yeah, I think ah ah from last year, Kenyans have clearly indicated through the protest what they want the government to do.
00:03:24
Emmanuel Taban
And that was shown through the protest where they marched into parliament and they stormed parliament. um When the parliament was at a session of actually ah trying to pass in the finance bill that they were totally against.
00:03:39
Emmanuel Taban
And that clearly shows us that job even after knowing that the majority of Kenyans were not willing to embrace the bill, ah the members of parliament in the National Assembly went ahead and then they passed the bill, ah which later on was taken to the president for inaction.
00:03:57
Emmanuel Taban
And that that tells us so clearly how ah disconnected the members of parliament are or the leaders are from their ah from their
Protests and Political Dynamics
00:04:05
Emmanuel Taban
constituencies. because In a real sense, before you make ah you pass any bill in the parliament, you were supposed to go and make consultation with those people who sent you to parliament.
00:04:15
Emmanuel Taban
You are their representative. But it feels like the people in the parliament, the members of parliament, were completely disconnected from their people. So and the most interesting and the most part that has actually stuck in my mind during last year's protest and the events that unfolded after it was...
00:04:32
Emmanuel Taban
um when the young Kenyans stormed parliament and they marched into the parliament demanding that their voices are heard. And that was very clearly reflected on the time when the president conceded and then he came in and made a press briefing saying that he has heard the cry of the people and therefore he is not going to pass the finance bill, he's not going to sign it and then make it. like That was one of the significant moments that actually tells us that the voices of the people or the voice of the people prevailed and that is one moment where i believe that the majority of the gen z's or the young kenyans who are proud of because they failed for the first time during that moment that their voices were hard and that was reflected in the president not signing the bill into a law which was very important
00:05:21
Patrick Abure
But I do kind of feel like um this would have been avoided. i think I like the fact that you've talked about the gap and the fact that there's like a clear indication of our leaders not really listening to the people they they represent.
00:05:38
Patrick Abure
Because if probably they have ah they would have actually listened from the word go, we would definitely not even be talking about June 25th. It would have totally been sort of like a totally different story.
00:05:48
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:05:51
Patrick Abure
And where we are at right now, in my own personal view, I feel like... um Despite the fact that that happened and so many young people even lost their lives trying to ah ask for accountability and sort of reforms and for the leaders to look into these bills and maybe make a change.
00:06:10
Patrick Abure
I kind of feel we are in a loop. It's like as Kenyans, we are stuck in the same loop. Whatever happened last year has continuously happened, maybe not on the same scale, but it definitely feels like there's that gap where are you really listening as a leader?
00:06:28
Patrick Abure
And what are you doing? Are you really representing the people or sort of your personal views? Because there's been abductions. People have been abducted because of airing their views.
00:06:39
Patrick Abure
There's been censorship. I remember we talked when we hosted you the other time, we also talked of censorship in the context of like the play, the play by Butere Girls.
00:06:49
Emmanuel Taban
Mm-hmm.
00:06:49
Patrick Abure
young girls could not be allowed or on a stage. What do you think, for example, since now, like I feel like ah June 25th sort of set the pace ah and it's not like we have experienced so much change. What do you think in your personal opinion talks about, what do you think that kind of reflects in the context of freedom of expression in Kenya?
00:07:12
Patrick Abure
Are we making any steps forward or we are just stuck?
Free Speech and Legal Challenges
00:07:17
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, I think I really have a very great admiration for Kenya. And Kenya holds a very special place in my heart because one, it is in Kenya that actually gave the start for the birth of my country in 2005.
00:07:23
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:07:35
Emmanuel Taban
the Comprehensive Peace Agreement that gave resolutions so that South Sudan would be would go for independence in 2011 or sign in Naivasa in Kenya. And that therefore gives me a very ah good connection with Kenya and and how important Kenya is I have also admired that Kenya is one of the only countries in East Africa that for the last 60 years probably had more than four different presidents.
00:07:59
Emmanuel Taban
And that that is a very, very good sign. They've had a little bit kind of ah different ah ah political dispensation coming at a very different time compared to most of the East African countries, which is very good.
00:08:02
Patrick Abure
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:08:12
Emmanuel Taban
And also, I still hold the view that Kenya is the only country in East Africa that still, even when not in a very good manner, they still allow some some little freedom of speech to people.
00:08:26
Patrick Abure
yeah
00:08:26
Emmanuel Taban
I watch a lot of news in Kenya. I watch a lot. Like I watch TV shows. And I would see that ah um'm I'm seeing like young Kenyans given the platform to go on a national TV and express their views, though a few of them sometimes would be scared. and i mean, like threatened and then maybe abducted. But majority of them still have that freedom. They still go on TV station, and national TV station. ah and air out what is what they don't like, what they feel is not good about the president.
00:08:56
Emmanuel Taban
A lot of ah political opponents will still come on national TV and talk against the president, and sometimes nothing happens to them. but Whereas that is a very good move. I feel that Kenya is in a very in ah in a state where they shouldn't be actually...
00:09:10
Emmanuel Taban
um I mean, they should be focusing so much on giving ah the freedom of speech to the people. and and and And I've seen this, that the constitution of Kenya, of course, I've never gone through so much in the constitution of Kenya, but Kenya has like a very, very good constitution, a very progressive constitution that was ah written in 2010, a very good one.
00:09:27
Patrick Abure
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:09:31
Emmanuel Taban
And part of it, one of the articles, I think it's, I don't remember, but about articles that the trade that gives the freedom of expression to every Kenyan,
00:09:37
Patrick Abure
yeah
00:09:39
Emmanuel Taban
And when we look at the freedom of expression, um it it it it it actually gives people the right to ah to acquire information, the right tool to to to inform, the right to impart your ideas in any way, if you want to do it in an artistic way, in a creative way, through a digital way,
00:10:00
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:10:01
Emmanuel Taban
That is the right that you're given. And therefore, country like Kenya that I have admired for so long and that I still hold the the view that it is one of the countries in East Africa that's still great.
00:10:14
Emmanuel Taban
I feel like Kenya should be doing better than what it's doing right now. Like people should be given the right to express themselves. But also that does not...
00:10:25
Emmanuel Taban
ah does not actually take out the the the point that the constitution also has some limitations, you know, whereas it gives people the right to express themselves, but there's also a limitation where you are restricted.
00:10:39
Emmanuel Taban
You know, you're restricted from saying something, for instance, when ah what you are saying, it's it's going to incite violence, if it is going to create like hate speech, it's going to incite ethnic divisions, that is what you're not supposed to be doing.
00:10:55
Emmanuel Taban
and then
00:10:55
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:10:56
Emmanuel Taban
But also we do have ah ways in which people who incite violence should be handled. It's not necessarily through abduction, it's not necessarily through torture, that is not the way. The constitution has almost every guideline. It gives you every penalty for people who violates it.
00:11:18
Emmanuel Taban
And therefore, I feel that ah whereas Kenya is giving that freedom of speech to some extent, but there's that ah context context where I think a few people maybe be in the government who are perceived to be having all powers are trying still to drag Kenyans behind by doing unnecessary things like these unnecessary abductions errors.
00:11:40
Emmanuel Taban
And I think they deserve to do better than that. Yeah. Right.
00:11:44
Patrick Abure
oh I think what I'm hearing from you is more of in as much as there's freedom of expression, there's definitely limits. And also there's ah there's a context of maybe people abusing it, especially the people in power.
00:11:52
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:11:57
Patrick Abure
How can you hold people in power accountable?
Accountability in Leadership
00:12:00
Patrick Abure
so that they get to that place where if there's a constitution and you're supposed to probably go, if it's that article 33 definitely about freedom of speech, how can you now hold leaders, especially in the context of Kenya right now, how can you hold leaders accountable so that they don't abuse that? Because i realize there's this trend where Kenyans will come online maybe, they'll have those that social activism, but when it comes to, and then when when when when we say certain things,
00:12:30
Patrick Abure
leaders are triggered, they call us names and say a lot of other things. But when it is them, they can say wherever they go, but wherever they get a mic, whether it's in a church, it's in a social gathering, as if ah in my personal opinion, it kind of feels as if they feel like they have more rights to say whatever they want than just any other person out here.
00:12:57
Patrick Abure
How do you now end up holding those accountable?
00:12:57
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, i
00:13:01
Emmanuel Taban
yeah I think I've umve i've seen that several, like a section of politicians believe that they have more powers than the the the common people.
00:13:05
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:13:12
Emmanuel Taban
and and ah But ah in a country where there is rule of law, definitely there is no one who is above the law. Everyone is supposed to be treated equally, whether you are a member of parliament, a senator, you are a presidential personal assistant, or you are a vice president, or even the president himself, you are all supposed to be guided by the constitution of the country.
00:13:34
Emmanuel Taban
So...
00:13:35
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:13:35
Emmanuel Taban
um But unfortunately, I've seen that so many ah politicians in Kenya, most of them are so much bitter when it it comes to ah speaking in public.
00:13:48
Emmanuel Taban
and And I feel that even that that that the the anger that is shown by Kenyans, it is a reflection of the leaders.
00:13:58
Emmanuel Taban
So you find that... You go and someone is killed, protester, ah someone goes on the street and protests and this person is shot, dead. And then you, as a member of parliament, who is supposed to represent the will of the people, you stand in the parliament and then you say people are killed everywhere in the world. So what we do is just we sympathize and forget about Just imagine how the common people will feel about that.
00:14:23
Patrick Abure
Yeah.
00:14:24
Emmanuel Taban
you speak about that.
00:14:25
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:26
Emmanuel Taban
You come on up on the public, you are a mean is a CS or PS or a member of parliament, and then you come on a public gathering and then you speak. If you dare to go on the street, we will abduct, we will kill you. So what do you think the the the the people would say? Obviously, they will take on that anger as well. And then the same way that you're reacting to them is going to be the same way that they're going to act.
00:14:49
Emmanuel Taban
But um as as I said before, that in every country that has constitution that is progressive as the one of Kenya, no one is above the law. Everyone is supposed to be treated equally, whether you are a member of the political elite or you are just an ordinary citizen.
00:15:04
Emmanuel Taban
The rule is supposed to be treating you equally. So, and... and and And we've just noticed this in the recent event that happened when ah one of the bloggers was killed, Albert Ojoan, and then there ah there were allegations that did the deputy inspector general police was one of the guys who was behind it, Eric Lagarde, who, like he was behind, and then people were asking him to step down.
00:15:16
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:15:29
Emmanuel Taban
And then you see how things are happening.
00:15:29
Patrick Abure
who
00:15:31
Emmanuel Taban
like They were hesitant at first. They didn't want even to make him resign. But out of public criteria is when ah they had to make him step aside. So I feel that there is that disconnection, that the people in the political elite feel that they hold like um more powers than the common people, which is completely wrong.
00:15:51
Emmanuel Taban
In a country that has a constitution, the law is supposed to treat people equally. So I think that is what, and and this should start right away from the president.
00:15:56
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:16:00
Emmanuel Taban
If the president speaks about this, when he says everything about this, that when you commit a crime, it doesn't matter if you're a CS, if you're a head of a police unit what you deserve to be treated equally so when the leader of the country starts speaking in that voice and then i think it's going to be reflected in the entire country so everything starts with the leader so when the leader starts speaking that way then i believe everyone is going to embrace it yeah thanks and do you think the children
00:16:26
Patrick Abure
Nice. And do you think, yeah you mentioned, you mentioned, ah what is it called? You mentioned Alberto Juang and the the way somebody can go into parliament and say, oh, ah people die everywhere. Do you think ah from the perspective of our leaders, could it also be sort of intentional for them to trigger public rage?
00:16:47
Patrick Abure
Because what purpose does it serve to say stuff like that when you are living in a in a very tense sort of political environment, especially for the people.
00:16:58
Patrick Abure
Is that like rage that they're they're doing it in intentionally to trigger people or what would be the purpose honestly?
00:17:07
Emmanuel Taban
I think, ah you know, Politics is sometimes so tricky. There are people who easily survive um in and political space through such utterances.
00:17:19
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:17:21
Emmanuel Taban
you know you know And and that that that is so common.
00:17:22
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:17:24
Emmanuel Taban
you know When you are so much aligned to someone, for instance, in the case of Kenya, we have so many political ah groupings. So you know that for you, in order to survive, in to still be kept in your political a group, so you need to align into what your people say.
00:17:32
Patrick Abure
Yeah.
00:17:42
Emmanuel Taban
So if people are against something, so you should always come out and speak against it. It doesn't matter where you're coming from. If you are a member of maybe the government, you always have to come and speak out what the government likes you to speak. You're not allowed to speak your mind freely.
00:17:57
Emmanuel Taban
I think that is so dangerous. It's so, so dangerous that... people don't really speak what the their the representative one, what what their constitu constituency wants to hear, or what their constituency wants them to go and represent in the parliament. and But in most cases, they speak what their bosses would like to hear from them.
00:18:19
Emmanuel Taban
And that's that's what I think trigger all these kind of utterances.
00:18:19
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:22
Emmanuel Taban
When you see people in parliament speaking, they're not addressing their constituencies, they're not addressing the parliament, but they are addressing their bosses. They are addressing either one of the biggest guy in the government or in the opposition. so so that they just feel they're like they belong to a certain political group.
00:18:38
Emmanuel Taban
So that's how sometimes people ah survive in a political space. So you will have to be dragged into saying something that is not of your interest, but just because you belong to a certain political group, you have to say it so that you are in alignment with their ideas.
00:18:55
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:18:57
Patrick Abure
And I like that you have actually said that because when I try to sort of analyze what has been happening happening in Kenya for the last one year, it kind of feels like for the longest, as you've said, like these leaders, they are more aligned to maybe their bosses and what their bosses want.
00:18:58
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:19:14
Patrick Abure
And I feel like maybe for the longest period of time, we lived in such a, that's like the bubble we lived in for the longest. And what happened last year
00:19:23
Emmanuel Taban
right.
00:19:25
Patrick Abure
was definitely like, it's like, an it's the way you can run an experiment and then there's that one outlier, like the one thing that becomes different. It was the first time like people realized like, oh, by the way, this is not working for us.
00:19:35
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:19:39
Patrick Abure
And who what are you what who are you representing? So people start asking questions and they're like, no, when you go to vote for that finance bill, um we want you to say no.
00:19:51
Patrick Abure
And then at the end of the day, they maybe some of the members of parliament who were told to say no by their constituents, they went and said yes. So it definitely, I think for the leadership, especially because most of them have probably been in politics for the longest, they were sort of used to just doing what they want and saying they're representing the will of the people.
00:20:11
Patrick Abure
but not that's not necessarily what they were doing. And from because we kind of destabilized like something they're used to, like they we diverted them from their normal playbook.
00:20:25
Patrick Abure
I feel like so to some extent, they've not been able to adjust and realize that, oh, by the way, these people can actually hold us accountable and we would have to do what they want.
Policing and Public Safety
00:20:39
Patrick Abure
I guess, which is why sort of, there is sort of that conflict between the political elite and just the common monaichi, honestly, from my personal perspective.
00:20:49
Emmanuel Taban
right that's true yeah
00:20:50
Patrick Abure
Yeah. And I think you also mentioned, let's talk about Alberto Djuang, honestly. You did mention a little bit about Alberto Djuang. For me, the Kenyan police service, their job, they say it's to serve and protect. I think it's actually probably their slogan, it's serve and protect.
00:21:09
Patrick Abure
The fact that this person, let's talk about that, and social activism. People have been using social media, to speak about injustices or maybe the things they don't like about the current leadership and stuff like that.
00:21:23
Patrick Abure
And Alberto Djuang, that's exactly what he was using his platform to do. And he was arrested in Kisumu and a day later ends up dead in a police cell for people who are supposed to serve and protect.
00:21:38
Patrick Abure
ah What do you think, how do you think this looks like, especially for Kenyans? Are we supposed to sort of fear for our lives or because I mean the next time people, because it's kind of triggering the next person, the next time maybe you see a police officer, even as people plan to go for this mandamano tomorrow, because there's a protest tomorrow, which will be of 2025.
00:22:03
Patrick Abure
How does this sort of collectively collectively reflect on the police service and the fact that they're supposed to serve and protect and also in the context of freedom of speech and social activism?
00:22:16
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, um you know, ah ah the role of police everywhere in the world is to protect ah the lives of the common people and to keep law and order.
00:22:27
Emmanuel Taban
So that is that is entirely the role of police in every country.
00:22:32
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:22:32
Emmanuel Taban
So in in the in the case of Albert Ojuang, who was abducted simply because he had posted something
00:22:32
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:22:40
Emmanuel Taban
about some guy in the police. I think that was the deputy inspector general. And then later on, he was abducted from his home county and then brought to Nairobi right away, crossing, I mean, number of ah miles before reaching Nairobi.
00:22:58
Emmanuel Taban
And that tells us, as I said before, that the Kenyan constitution is a very progressive and very good constitution that grants um ah the right to expression. You can do it in any way you want.
00:23:12
Emmanuel Taban
So I feel that... and But also, if if if you if if if ah that police member who felt that Duong was attack attacking him, if he felt it was he was falsely accused, then the best thing would have done is to also sue him and maybe ask that he he should be arraigned and then be questioned about his statement.
00:23:25
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:23:34
Emmanuel Taban
That should have been the best thing that he would have done. Not... picking him from his family in the in in in the middle of his his family and then dragging him right away to Nairobi. Yet there are even other police stations, maybe in Kisumu, where was arrested or along the way, but he was taken, picked straight away from his home county to Nairobi.
00:23:54
Emmanuel Taban
That tells us a lot about about about the the police This means that there are a certain clique of people within the police service who are trying to to just like ah portray a very negative image of the police service.
00:24:09
Emmanuel Taban
and And I think ah you may agree with me that I think Kenya has some of the professional...
00:24:10
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:13
Emmanuel Taban
I like the Kenyan army, I like the Kenyan police service. it's really it It really has very professional individuals, but there are a section of people within the police service that might be arrogant and then trying to um so just portray a negative image of of of of the police.
00:24:33
Emmanuel Taban
But I think ah it's it's important that ah people will be given their right, their right to express themselves. you know you it's It's not good to just stop someone from thinking.
00:24:46
Emmanuel Taban
you know When I impart my ideas, whether on social media or write it through an article, publish it on website or where on that Those are my ideas, that is my thinking. So you shouldn't someone shouldn't be penalised for making his ideas, for for displaying his thoughts.
00:25:04
Emmanuel Taban
it's It's really not good when the police service do that. But I feel also that when this thing happened, just for the police service to keep their name, when such action happened, then people who are suspected to be the ones who carry out these operations should be also brought to book and they shouldn't be spared.
00:25:23
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:24
Emmanuel Taban
like It doesn't matter what position you hold in the police service. If you're known to be one of the persons who who actually carried out this operation, then you should be also brought to book. so that it is good to spare the name of the police service rather than just give you a negative negative image.
00:25:40
Emmanuel Taban
So I think that was an unfortunate event that happened. And then um I think it's one of the one one one of the issues that the Kenyan Gen Z are going into this tomorrow's protest with it in mind, the killing Alberto Duong.
00:25:52
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:55
Emmanuel Taban
I think it it it has a little bit raised in some kind of anger in the hearts of the young Kenyans. And then among them also the recent shooting of ah the Hawker in the previous protest, ah Boniface Krioki, who was so just his only crime was selling masks on the street so he could go and maybe provide for his family that...
00:26:16
Emmanuel Taban
it finds hard to get in in in in the because of the current economic situation in the country. So I think these are some of the issues that really the police should get out and then fix them.
00:26:29
Emmanuel Taban
But um also they should know that people have the right to express themselves. But also even when you arrest someone, I think there is a specific number of times that this person should be arraigned in the court and then his arrest should be known, his whereabouts should be known, they should he should have an access to a legal representation.
00:26:49
Emmanuel Taban
like His family should have known where exactly their son is arrested, where their son is kept.
00:26:53
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Protest Dynamics and Public Sentiment
00:26:55
Emmanuel Taban
that's you know That should have been done, but it never got done and as a result, Oduang got killed, I mean tortured and then later on killed, found dead. So I think that was unfortunate event that happened.
00:27:07
Emmanuel Taban
And majority of Kenyans are going into tomorrow's protest with that in mind. And that is very unfortunate. Yeah.
00:27:14
Patrick Abure
Yeah. And I think also to add on to what you're saying, it's kind of sad that also even for Boniface, Boniface was shot at a protest that was actually, we were protesting against police brutality because of what happened to Zhuang.
00:27:16
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:27:31
Patrick Abure
So for him to also be shot in such a protest, it's actually like, it's irony, honestly. Because like, even try for a day to try to pretend even if it's for a day,
00:27:37
Emmanuel Taban
Right. Right.
00:27:43
Patrick Abure
that there is no issues, you don't have issues to um with the people. you know Because you are police, we are protesting against you. i feel like the least they could have done is to make sure like the protest would have been you know peaceful. Because when people went for the protest, I was actually following the protest.
00:28:00
Patrick Abure
And it was so peaceful until later in the day. And maybe the other thing we need to also talk about is the fact that there was the goons in the protest.
00:28:11
Patrick Abure
People are calling them goonsies. It's so funny, but yeah.
00:28:15
Emmanuel Taban
Mm-hmm.
00:28:16
Patrick Abure
So in this particular protest, they ended up being like, um I've seen a lot of exposures, honestly, even in the news, they've been talking about the way there is some politicians, some ah very high in the hierarchy in government, who've been paying other young people, and especially young people from slums,
00:28:36
Patrick Abure
to come and disrupt the the protests. I wonder what sort of ah precedent this sort of sets for the next ah sort of ah protest. Because I mean, like tomorrow, there's been a lot of um conversation online. Tomorrow, people want to go for the protest and they want to commemorate ah like who we term as our heroes because they lost their lives on June 25 of last year, twenty fifth of But right now, there is also that idea of goons might show up and disrupt what is supposed to be a peaceful protest in such ah in such a space where people even feel like they have the power, the money, and they can even offer other other young people maybe who are jobless somewhere to do the dirty work for them.
00:29:25
Patrick Abure
How do you end up even even having like peaceful protests, how can you safeguard protests, especially peaceful protests from such kind of, you know, and especially I guess this kind of goes back to the kind of leadership that we have.
00:29:40
Patrick Abure
How do you, how, I wonder, just how do we even get to that kind of space?
00:29:46
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, I watched the latest protest, the one that happened ah where protesters were marching on the streets calling for justice for the killing of Albert O'Juan.
00:29:57
Emmanuel Taban
And the most disturbing part about that protest is when I saw um the police ah trying to disperse the protest protesters. And then also I saw a number of hired goons, they say the hired goons, like just walking on the street alongside the police and the police were just like, just watching them do their jobs and there was no reaction.
00:30:12
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:21
Emmanuel Taban
And that clearly tells us that the police knows exactly where those people were coming from. because they didn't even touch them. but They were walking working on the street alongside them, dispensing the protest.
00:30:32
Emmanuel Taban
and then And there was this popular assumption that most of these goons were hired by the governor of Nairobi, ps Sakaja Johnson. And and i've I've seen that. You you saw a Babu Owino, think the member of parliament for Embarker's East, came out and then he openly called it that it was hired by Sakaja. And the majority of people have that perception.
00:30:54
Emmanuel Taban
But I think that is a very, very bad image because one, um I think Kenya really, Kenya is viewed internationally as a country that um has some kind of space for freedom of expression.
00:31:10
Emmanuel Taban
So I think hiring goons, hiring people just to come and and disrupt ah what would have been a peaceful protest,
00:31:10
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:19
Emmanuel Taban
I think that really gives a very bad image to the country. And the president shouldn't really allow that to happen. If it is done by one of his closest people, one of his closest persons, I think he should call out against that.
00:31:34
Emmanuel Taban
Because at the end of the day, it is not going to be the image of that the member of parliament who is hiring the goons or the governor, but it is going to to spoil the image of the president. I think the kenya Kenya has a now...
00:31:44
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:47
Emmanuel Taban
police ah police are personalities who can really qua contain a protest they they they have that there's no need to hire guns they have enough material i think but but even one of the things is that as long as the police are able to just protect the people the protesters i don't feel these protesters are ready even to make destruction they they are not ready all they need is just to be availed with that ah opportunity to have their issues presented and the reason why they are protesting that's all
00:32:20
Emmanuel Taban
So hiring goons to come and distract a peaceful protest, I think it's it's really uncalled for. It doesn't really pose a very good picture to the to the to the to the government of Kenya and specifically to President Ruto.
00:32:38
Emmanuel Taban
so and And if at all there are any plans that are ahead for tomorrow, the same to bring on goons, maybe to make this, try I think that should really be called off because
00:32:38
Patrick Abure
who
00:32:47
Emmanuel Taban
it's It's going to send a very bad image to the country. Yeah.
00:32:52
Patrick Abure
And I was also watching news, I think yesterday, i saw like different um TV stations. They had highlighted those stories of goons and stuff like that.
00:33:03
Patrick Abure
And some of them had even gone down there to the slums to actually find out the to investigate who are these goons. And some of them came on TV. Of course, most of them we were not shown their faces, but most of them ended up being hurt.
00:33:18
Patrick Abure
Some would even say they were not paid, like they were expecting pay, which is very little money, and they ended up not being paid.
00:33:22
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:33:25
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:33:26
Patrick Abure
For me, even as we have this discussion today or we talk about this particular issue, as a Kenyan, honestly, I would appeal to every person on out here. I would say...
00:33:37
Patrick Abure
um 500 Kenya shillings might look like a lot of money at that moment or even 1,000 shillings. But 1,000 shillings cannot buy you your freedom forever.
00:33:48
Patrick Abure
The issues that people are protesting against right now, they'll affect you.
00:33:50
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:33:54
Patrick Abure
They'll affect your mother, your father, you are your your village, your are your children. They'll affect you and they'll continue affecting you on a daily basis.
00:34:04
Patrick Abure
So if we cannot join hands today, and speak up, those issues are not they're not just personal issues, they are a national issue. So if you you are hired today to disrupt a very peaceful protest that is speaking for is asking for reforms or people are protesting against something very, very particular that affects everyone else.
00:34:28
Patrick Abure
It might look like something interesting at that particular moment, but you'll be paid 500 that might only last you for a few hours or a day. And then after that, we go back to the same same exact issues we will go to the same, same problems and that doesn't even get us anywhere.
00:34:46
Patrick Abure
So my appeal to young people, don't be blinded by money that cannot make any difference in your life. That said, my other whatever I would have loved for us to talk about is um the gap between, I feel like, as I think you had mentioned it, that there's sort of like a very big disconnect between the political class and the citizens.
00:34:56
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:35:10
Patrick Abure
i I don't know even how we actually got here, but it's like over the years, it's kind of ah become wider. Do you think this gap can can be bridged or we are heading to sort of you know bad waters.
00:35:27
Patrick Abure
Do you think we things will get better for Kenyans?
00:35:31
Emmanuel Taban
I think so. Absolutely, things will get better because when we look at the majority of Cajuns, um these are people who want change. And obviously, when the majority of the people in the country are the ones that are in need of change, then obviously change is going to come.
00:35:41
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:35:49
Emmanuel Taban
And I think one of the reasons where there is a very big disconnect between the political elites and then the the ordinary people is that, you know, when we look at the members of ah the political elites in Kenya right now, these are people who are in their senior stages.
00:35:50
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:04
Emmanuel Taban
that senior estate Look at the political class.
00:36:06
Patrick Abure
who
00:36:06
Emmanuel Taban
These are people who have been in politics for the last, if not 30, 20 years. These are probably very old men who were there. They served almost in all the previous administrations. Most of them served under Moy.
00:36:21
Emmanuel Taban
Some of them served under Mwaiki Bakke. Others Kenyatta. Others are serving under Ruto.
00:36:25
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:36:26
Emmanuel Taban
They all served under these different... so they they hold a very conservative view of how things should be done. and they They probably hold the old way of wanting things is to get done in a very ah disappointing way, in a way where they want to impose their ideas on the people in a way that they want to stop people from bringing alternative ideas.
00:36:40
Patrick Abure
who
00:36:50
Emmanuel Taban
And then the majority of Kenyans, these are very young people, the but the majority of Kenyan population, of course, these are very young ah people who are in their young ages. And therefore, they are the ones that de demand demand change the change.
00:37:06
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:06
Emmanuel Taban
badly need the change. And i think that's where the difference comes from. We have a section of Kenyans who are very old, have been there in politics for a very long time and are very used to the old way of doing things.
00:37:19
Emmanuel Taban
And then we have a new section of Kenyans who have fresh ideas, who have like a new ah view of how things should be done in the 21st century, who have seen how things have been done in the outside world and who also want things to be done in their country.
00:37:20
Patrick Abure
who
00:37:36
Emmanuel Taban
But then this is the point where i think it's bringing on that difference. Another group of people wanting things done, like just the two different group of people want things to be done differently. And I think that is the difference.
00:37:46
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:37:47
Emmanuel Taban
But I feel that to close this widening gap, what the government needs to do is that the young people are all obviously going to be ah the custodians of hope of the future of the country.
00:37:58
Emmanuel Taban
And the time is now that they get involved in every decision that makes that that is going to save the future of country. It is not tomorrow. It is not next year in the next elections or in 2027 or whatsoever.
00:38:11
Emmanuel Taban
It is now that these young people should be brought into the same line and then their ideas are had, are actually implemented so that what they want to be done is actually done right now.
00:38:24
Emmanuel Taban
And I think when the government does this, when they bring in the ideas from these young people, when they engage these young people, when they listen to them, and I think that is the only way where that gap can be closed.
00:38:24
Patrick Abure
ah
00:38:34
Emmanuel Taban
But otherwise, if they continue in the way they are doing right now, where they feel they are always right, and then the young people are wrong, I think that gap is not going to really get close.
00:38:46
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:38:48
Patrick Abure
Yeah, I was listening to some live today on
00:38:48
Emmanuel Taban
That's it.
Engaging Youth for Change
00:38:51
Patrick Abure
TikTok.
00:38:51
Patrick Abure
They were talking about a revolution They say like for a revolution to happen, there has to be sort of that consistent showing up for the course, like what you believe in and stuff like that. And I believe from what you're saying, a lot of young Kenyans, that's why they are persistent.
00:39:08
Patrick Abure
They're like, we won't stop until we see the change. And as you said, for that gap to sort of, you know, become either smaller or or maybe even just end, there would be need for, people need to be on the same table and talk about these issues, whether it's the old, ah they young, that there needs to be sort of a consensus at some point, because I feel like um the more they don't want to listen, the more it kind of fuels us as young people.
00:39:38
Patrick Abure
We are like, even as we want to be heard, we think things should be done this way. So at some point, it's like them it's it's almost similar to, maybe not the same exactly, but even in 2007, 2008, when there was post-election violence in Kenya, Kofi Annan was deployed here to come and and sort of become, what do you call them?
00:40:05
Patrick Abure
He was supposed to bring the two parties together, the two parties that had issues.
00:40:09
Emmanuel Taban
now I can mediate now
00:40:09
Patrick Abure
So, yeah, and at the end of the day, yeah, I'm mediator, exactly, thank you. Yeah, so I kind of feel like even at this point in time, we need to find a way to, as you've said, to sit on the same table and see each other's point of view and maybe even come to a compromise.
00:40:27
Patrick Abure
Because if especially I would say, for a lot of young Kenyans, people are jobless. Like as you you you had mentioned earlier before we started the podcast of that girl on TikTok who was talking about the fact that she's gone to school, she doesn't have a job.
00:40:43
Patrick Abure
And then she, I think, I think you you said they are ready to die. They don't mind, yeah.
00:40:49
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, that's what he said.
00:40:51
Patrick Abure
Yeah, they don't they don't mind dying for this cause, this particular cause, because they feel like they don't have anything to live for. So that means with this kind of, if this is how people are feeling on the ground, and especially young people, it means, and if they're not busy again, every every time somebody posts a we are going to meet next week because there's going to be a protest in the city, people will keep showing up because they're not busy, they're demanding for change, they want to become busy, they want you to create jobs for them.
00:41:22
Patrick Abure
So to I feel like it will just ah keep us in a loop. It's just the same thing happening over and over again.
00:41:27
Emmanuel Taban
right.
00:41:29
Patrick Abure
You decide you don't want to listen to me and then I will also decide I'll show up almost every day or as many times like that as I can on the streets. And I feel like with that,
00:41:40
Patrick Abure
It doesn't get us anywhere. We will just be caught up in a loop. People will continue losing their lives for nothing. And it's just a roller coaster over and over and over and over again.
00:41:51
Patrick Abure
um
00:41:52
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:41:52
Patrick Abure
You talked about ah the leadership. And of course, maybe we might need to to talk about these issues from ah from the concept concept of the old people, young people coming together and doing doing these things.
00:42:07
Patrick Abure
But do you think now that Kenyans will be having elections in 2027, do you think that maybe a regime change, like totally overhauling the whole government through sort of like elections, do you think that that would make a difference for Kenyans?
00:42:25
Emmanuel Taban
um i I think ah when we when we look at some section of Kenyans who wants to go on the street tomorrow, they are saying ah by tomorrow they want to see like a new ah new transitional government in place, which I believe is not going to happen.
00:42:34
Patrick Abure
Yeah.
00:42:41
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:42:43
Emmanuel Taban
ah but but But I feel that the constitution probably gives Kenya like ah better ways on how leaders are elected. Whereas it says that all powers belong to the to the to the to to people and then they have a right either to exercise it directly or through the elected representatives.
00:42:51
Patrick Abure
yeah
00:43:00
Emmanuel Taban
So I think the best way that they would do is just to give Ruto his time until 2027. If they feel they're dissatisfied with his service, then they can vote him out.
00:43:11
Emmanuel Taban
They can vote him out and then bring in a new person that they feel can actually um do what they want.
00:43:12
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:43:18
Emmanuel Taban
they they they won But um um But I think having a new president maybe 2027 might not still even in change things when we are going to have in Kenya the same president who has been in in the past political dispensation who has probably the same way of thinking.
00:43:41
Emmanuel Taban
So it is totally up to Kenyans. I am not a Kenyan, so it's totally up to them to decide who they want to be their president. So a person that they feel represent their views better.
00:43:48
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:43:51
Emmanuel Taban
But according to me, like calling for a total change of government ah through a protest demonstration before 2027, feel like it's it's it's going to to set the country into a leadership crisis.
00:44:06
Emmanuel Taban
And and and and i really think it's not it's not the best way. The best way they can do is to, yes, go on the street, present their dissatisfaction and and do their protests, present their their issues.
00:44:20
Emmanuel Taban
But they can still tell the president that, you know what, you are not doing what we want. We are going to vote you out in 2027 if that's what they they feel is the right thing for them. So, and and and changing or having a new president in 2027 does not mean bringing someone who is going to listen to their views and and and work with their demands, but they really have to be very critical and look at the person who they want to be their president in the in in the next elections.
00:44:30
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:44:47
Emmanuel Taban
So that is a very important. And I think they have really and and a good amount of time to assess who can be their best president, who can serve their interests as Kenyans, but also as young people.
00:45:00
Emmanuel Taban
Kenya has so many alternatives. They don't run short of leaders. They are very capable leaders, many of them who can run Kenya better than ah ah maybe the current administration.
00:45:07
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:45:11
Emmanuel Taban
So it's totally up to them to decide who they want to be on the ballot and they elected as their next president. right.
00:45:19
Patrick Abure
Wow. Yeah, I think I actually do agree with you, ah with what you're saying. a total regime change at this particular moment using a protest might be might not sort of probably really help us, because I have seen a lot of other countries, even like Sudan, what they have gone through in the last couple of years,
00:45:38
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:45:39
Patrick Abure
And how that has looked like for them. In as much as as, just adding to what you you're saying, in as much as i think we want to change, I feel like also sometimes change might take a little bit of time.
00:45:52
Patrick Abure
And also, having a new president, for me, according to me, I feel like it might not be, it is important, but it might not be in the next election, it might not be as important as um as having a new member of parliament and especially looking for one that sort of speaks or maybe represents your views as a,
00:46:15
Patrick Abure
as a citizen. So even during the next election, for me, I would tell us as young people, as Kenyans, we probably need to do better even as we think about who we are voting. We need to look at all the way from the grassroots level, who is your MCA, who is your women representative, who is a member of parliament.
00:46:35
Patrick Abure
I feel like if we think critically and do the changes from even the lowest of levels as we go up to maybe the presidential candidate, that would probably make more mean bring us more meaningful change than just changing just one person.
00:46:52
Patrick Abure
Because these laws that are made in parliament, not made by the president. Maybe him, he'll just assent the laws but it is your local member of parliament who is probably saying yes or no to something that either favors you or doesn't favor you.
00:47:00
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:47:07
Patrick Abure
So we I think as Kenyans, we definitely need to do better because I feel like also the leadership that is currently in power right now, it's also a true reflection of our choices as the people.
00:47:20
Patrick Abure
You know, So you know i in as much as we also want to hold ah to hold them accountable, but we also need to be accountable to ourselves and and do better. But that said also, I kind of feel like, you know, you' you've really talked or mentioned the constitution.
00:47:38
Patrick Abure
I feel like Kenya, yes, has like a really good constitution, and but I feel like what is sort of lacking is the accountability process.
Justice and Government Accountability
00:47:47
Patrick Abure
Like, it's like we are stuck in the accountability part of it.
00:47:49
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:47:51
Patrick Abure
How best can we hold these people accountable? Even as we wait, even if we were to say we are going to wait for the next election to have these changes, how best can we hold these people accountable?
00:48:03
Patrick Abure
i mean Do they want us to show up in every mandamano? Or should we take them to court? Or, yeah, I think that's where we are stuck. Accountability.
00:48:12
Emmanuel Taban
Right. You're literally right.
00:48:13
Patrick Abure
Yeah.
00:48:14
Emmanuel Taban
You're right. Yeah, you're right.
00:48:15
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:48:17
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:48:19
Patrick Abure
Wow. Anyway, I feel like, I think we have sort of ah cut across some of the things that I really wanted us to ah to talk about in this conversation.
00:48:30
Patrick Abure
And i'm I'm sort of saddened by the fact that a lot of young people died approximately, I've read so many sources, they keep saying it's 61 people who died on June 25th of 2024.
00:48:31
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:48:44
Patrick Abure
But it kind of feels like it was more people that died on that particular day. And to this date, they've never gotten any justice. that The government has not held anyone accountable.
00:48:57
Patrick Abure
There you know, apart from, say, for example, Ojuang, who died recently, and there was all these idea of trying to bring everybody who was caught up in the mess to account.
00:49:09
Patrick Abure
But for people who lost their lives last year up to this particular moment, nothing has ever been done for those families and you know and the fact that they lost their loved ones.
00:49:21
Patrick Abure
What would you say about that in the context of the government trying to remain accountable to the people?
00:49:30
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah, I think ah I totally agree with you when you say um Kenya has a very good constitution, but the only part that is lacking right now is the accountability part.
00:49:40
Emmanuel Taban
and um
00:49:41
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:49:42
Emmanuel Taban
Yes, you you you did mention that. um Last year, when the the young Kenyans, when they stormed parliament, and then some of them were killed, um you know, by that time we had Keturik Ndiki, who was then the the CS for Interior.
00:50:00
Emmanuel Taban
And then he he was, he he I think he gave me a statement saying that um they were carrying some investigation to know if at all the members of the Kenyan Defense Force were directly involved in killing some of these protesters.
00:50:11
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:50:13
Emmanuel Taban
But then some months later, we met like when the BBC Africa and I came up with the documentary, ah The Blood Parliament, that actually gave a very clear picture of who was involved in killing some of these protesters.
00:50:29
Emmanuel Taban
Up to now, we haven't had any accountability from the government, even after ah ah clear pictures were shown that these were the specific people who killed some of the protesters, the likes of ah the David Chege, who was killed on the on the protest grounds.
00:50:29
Patrick Abure
who
00:50:46
Emmanuel Taban
There was there's no accountability for that up to now, and I feel there's no one who is... no member of the Kenyan Defense Force who was held accountable for that action.
00:50:55
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:50:57
Emmanuel Taban
and and And I feel the best thing that the government should have done or the president should have done on the eve day of the commemoration of the protest tomorrow is to just make like some kind of address ah in ri regards to the lives of those who were lost, carry out some, so I mean, like have some press conference or an address coming out and telling Kenya exactly what as a government they have done in regards to those people who were killed last year.
00:51:29
Emmanuel Taban
And what are they going to do to their families and what they're expecting? how What are the reforms? What policies are they going to bring? Maybe in the police and the police unit or in the army so that such incidents don't happen again in the country. Just a kind of inserting hope.
00:51:46
Emmanuel Taban
in in in the in in Kenya so that even those who are planning to go on protest tomorrow will have some kind of their anger reduced. you know I expected that to be done like today, maybe ah by the president, but I think it's not done.
00:51:56
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:52:01
Emmanuel Taban
We just had some random communications from politicians on gatherings ah giving in-state threats and what. And and I feel that's not the best way that they would actually solve this issue.
00:52:12
Emmanuel Taban
The president should have come out and then give an address on and just trying to like appeal to Kenyans to be peaceful in tomorrow's protest, allowing them to go on the street, but asking them, requesting them to be peaceful.
00:52:25
Emmanuel Taban
And also telling Kenyans about what steps they have taken in regards to those who were killed in last year's protest. think that would have been the best thing. That would really have been the best thing that they have done.
00:52:33
Patrick Abure
um
00:52:35
Emmanuel Taban
The lives that were lost we were very unfortunate. And I think um ah that shouldn't have happened to any Kenyan who were just exercising their constitutional right.
00:52:46
Emmanuel Taban
So it's it's unfortunate that some of them lost their lives. yeah
00:52:52
Patrick Abure
Yeah, and I think what what you're saying also shows the disconnect, adds to the disconnect that is there between the political class and the ordinary citizen.
00:52:59
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:53:02
Patrick Abure
And also also to some extent, to a larger extent, the lack of empathy. Because i'm a you could literally neutralize some of these things by being empathetic towards the people.
00:53:09
Emmanuel Taban
right that's right
00:53:14
Patrick Abure
And as you said, even coming up with a statement to show that you actually care you are even looking into these things, maybe you have not necessarily gotten to the conclusion of the matter, but at least you are doing something about it.
00:53:28
Patrick Abure
So yeah, they again I guess the disconnect keeps becoming you know bigger.
00:53:29
Emmanuel Taban
right
00:53:33
Patrick Abure
And at this point, it's like, you know I don't think they really care that much, which is very triggering. And that's why I feel like Kenyans will keep showing up for those ah protests ah at the end of the day.
00:53:46
Patrick Abure
Yeah, anyway, have you been on TikTok lately?
00:53:51
Emmanuel Taban
Uh, yeah, I'm always on TikTok at my free time.
00:53:53
Patrick Abure
Did you
00:53:56
Patrick Abure
did you see the the trend of people ah lately? In the last, like I think, two days, people have been taking pictures. They are preparing to go for the protest tomorrow, and they have been taking pictures.
00:54:08
Patrick Abure
ah Some of them, they are saying they are preparing a neology, that this is how I want to look like. Do you think that, ken is it is that like dark humor or maybe people ah find are trying to find ways to cope with the, maybe because people have gone through so much grief during this whole period of time.
00:54:28
Patrick Abure
Do you think it is dark humor or maybe people are just finding ways to cope with the loss and all the shenanigans happening?
Coping with Reality Through Humor
00:54:37
Emmanuel Taban
i think I think Kenyans i think I've come to a realization that Kenyans are some of the the few people in in in Africa that are very just are very unpredictable. And they I think at some at some point they have like a very high level of humour that they they possess, especially how they they respond to some issues.
00:54:57
Emmanuel Taban
like they they They do it in a very interesting way.
00:54:57
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:55:02
Emmanuel Taban
um i've i've also seen a picture of a i mean some guy posting about the schedule for tomorrow's protest and then listing the the timing they would start with prayers and speeches from ah members of their families of those who are lost then they will head to state house and then they will go and storm state house and then uh declare a new administration and which will end into ah like a new political dispensation, which I believe i believe like you know kenyans Kenyans really are very, like they they present their issues in a way that is very interesting.
00:55:38
Emmanuel Taban
But regarding those ones posting their pictures, I think they they are really very ah disturbing because You know, when someone comes out to an ex extent where they are posting about expecting themselves to die tomorrow and then want things to be done the way they want in case they die, I think that is so disturbing.
00:55:56
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
00:56:01
Emmanuel Taban
And one video that I came across was of a lady who was posting about... ah her problems, challenges that she has been facing since she graduated from the university and she's posting that saying her last word in case she will die tomorrow.
00:56:19
Emmanuel Taban
I think that is so bad. Really, it tells us how determined these young people are to go to the streets tomorrow. You know, when someone's is determined to the point of death, then you know that they are very serious about something. You will know that something is not a joke. You know that the issues that they are going through are really very, very serious.
00:56:39
Emmanuel Taban
And they have really impacted them so badly. And I think this this is where the government needs to come out and and really see that this is not a joke.
00:56:44
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:56:48
Emmanuel Taban
You know, in my, where I come from, it is it is not allowed for you to be talking about your death when you're not, when you're still alive. It's, it's, it's not It's not culturally acceptable.
00:56:59
Emmanuel Taban
So when someone starts talking like that, just know that they are overwhelmed by by some big problems that actually that they are going through it it is if i saw one guy posting that uh uh they are going to the street tomorrow and in case he dies he should be buried with the kenyan flag and those who will come after him should be informed that he was trying to fix his country you know these these are really very very very very very strong words that can uh
00:57:31
Emmanuel Taban
can really engineer some some some determination to go on the street. and And I feel really Kenyans are determined to go on the street. And and and what the police need to do is tomorrow just an ensure that they are protected. They are not tortured and manhandled like how it used to, like what happened last year.
00:57:52
Emmanuel Taban
So yeah, it's it it's interesting that they are presenting their their things in a very ah weird way, but also it's disturbing that You know, these are not things that should just be spoken easily. Things to do with that, these are very serious issues.
00:58:07
Emmanuel Taban
And when someone reaches that extent of speaking in that way, just know that things are not really right for them. Yeah.
00:58:15
Patrick Abure
Yeah, I totally agree. Death is sort of like a taboo topic. It's not something that you can boldly talk about it when you're still ah alive. Yeah, so i'd definitely agree with your point.
00:58:25
Emmanuel Taban
Yeah.
00:58:26
Patrick Abure
And maybe it's time the government started reconsidering sort of um their perspective, where they are at and what needs to be done.
00:58:35
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
00:58:36
Patrick Abure
to probably contain the situation. There's no need, I feel like there's no need of more bloodshed. You know, we we all need to be accountability accountable in our own ways. They need to be accountable on their part as the leaders of this nation.
00:58:51
Patrick Abure
Yeah, and to also also add to what you're saying, I saw Amnesty International, ah ah they posted on TikTok. literally they posted a video a about a protest starter pack i even wrote it down they are like one of the things you need to do is to tell someone where you are if you're going for the protest you need to have a bag and in your bag you should have like a national id airtime and data you need to have emergency contacts you need to charge your phone and have a power bank you need to dress appropriately so that if you need to run maybe you need to have good running shoes
00:59:27
Patrick Abure
You need to move in groups. um They also ah said you should not provoke the police. And if arrested, you should tell somebody and just maintain your cool. They said you can also have snacks, have wet wipes and tissue shu if you're showing up for the protest.
00:59:44
Patrick Abure
You should have like two water bottles. And then they also said you should have like a vinegar-soaked bandana to also help with the tear gas.
00:59:54
Patrick Abure
Yeah.
00:59:55
Emmanuel Taban
In case of TF guys.
00:59:55
Patrick Abure
So literally... literally
00:59:56
Emmanuel Taban
All
00:59:57
Patrick Abure
Yeah, I know that will definitely go down. Yeah, so the fact that we have gotten to a place where even a very big international ah non-governmental organization is posting like a starter pack for a protest, it kind of shows you just the way you've talked about the fact that ah the protest keeps going on and people are so determined they don't even mind losing their lives.
01:00:01
Emmanuel Taban
right.
01:00:19
Patrick Abure
it should I feel like that should probably spark an interest in the people in government to probably lower their egos and come down to the level of the people and listen to them and hear them out. Not just listen, literally hear and implement some of these changes gradually so that we can get to a better space.
01:00:40
Patrick Abure
I don't think we need to lose any more lives, you know. Yeah. So do you have any other words, even as we wind up this episode?
01:00:46
Emmanuel Taban
Right.
01:00:50
Emmanuel Taban
Oh, um I think of ah ah tomorrow tomorrow's protest is obviously, it's going to be, it's it's the major event that ah so many, the whole country is expecting to to see what is going to unveil in the morning, starting tomorrow.
A Call for Peaceful Protests
01:01:10
Emmanuel Taban
and and And I feel that people even who are not sleeping right now, they now have that anxiety, just waiting when tomorrow will come so they can they can see what is going to happen. But yeah, as as i as I said before, the new constitution actually provides you the right to go and protest on the street.
01:01:28
Emmanuel Taban
But as ah as as a law-abiding citizen as well, when you go, when you're given the right to protest, you should also know that you so you have do some limits. There are some things that you're prohibited from protesting.
01:01:39
Emmanuel Taban
from from doing just like what Amnesty has said that ah the protesters should not actually ah get into some I mean an external provoking the police you know it's it's these are people you know there are really some good policemen they are really very good policemen I've watched some few clips on TikTok of some policemen who really have ah the people at heart they really want to protect their life so just a few sections of them are very arrogant so I think that
01:01:43
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:02:00
Patrick Abure
who
01:02:09
Emmanuel Taban
the protesters, in case they go on the street, they shouldn't really provoke these men. These are same men, just like you. The only difference is that they are they are putting on a uniform, but they live the same life.
01:02:20
Emmanuel Taban
Probably they go under the same conditions as you. The only thing is that they are just they're doing that because maybe they want to protect you.
01:02:23
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:02:28
Emmanuel Taban
they want to They have some powers from above. But there is no any difference between you, the common people, and these policemen. Some of them even live under terrible conditions compared to you.
01:02:39
Emmanuel Taban
They go under mega pay, their kids might not have that access to go to school, they have no enough money to provide for their home.
01:02:40
Patrick Abure
who
01:02:48
Emmanuel Taban
So ah whereas you people should i mean like have the right to go and present your dissatisfaction, you should also respect these men in uniform. These are people who are having the the responsibility of protecting your life.
01:03:03
Emmanuel Taban
So, ah yeah, that's thus that's that's a good that's that's about ah what I would tell these protesters. But also as police, I think they should know that they have a responsibility and their responsibility is mainly enshrined in all their constitution and then the acts.
01:03:16
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:03:22
Emmanuel Taban
Probably I know there are so many acts in Kenya that actually gives the police that right to do that. But as a policeman, you shouldn't be like, just we have learned a lot.
01:03:36
Emmanuel Taban
They should learn a lot from what happened to Albert or John. That ah when after being instructed to go and do something at the end of the day, when you don't have that power, at the end of the day, you are going to be the one that is going to be right And that person who is the bigger one, they're going to be freed.
01:03:54
Emmanuel Taban
You know, just we have seen so much of what have happened. People who probably have no hand in the killing of Albert O'Doan are the one now being arraigned in the courts, just being accused of that. So you should also be very ah cautious as is the policeman of...
01:04:09
Emmanuel Taban
oh what what what instruction you're being given by those above you, what are you going to do? Because at the end of the day, it is going to be on you. They are not going to say, who is that maybe OC who gave that ah that orders for to to suit that protester?
01:04:19
Patrick Abure
Mm-hmm.
01:04:26
Emmanuel Taban
But what they will be interested in The Kenyans who will have their opponents during the protest are going to capture that moment of you shooting on that protester, not the O.C. giving, I mean, not that that ah police above you giving the orders.
01:04:40
Emmanuel Taban
So at the end of the day, it is going to zero down to the policemen who are going to be active on the ground. So I think they should be very well very cautious about their actions while ah on the on the protest.
01:04:53
Emmanuel Taban
They shouldn't make lives lost, but rather give a platform, give a very strict path where the protesters should, what they should do and where they they should do their protest. think that's the best thing that they should do.
01:05:07
Patrick Abure
Wow. honest Honestly, I don't even have anything else to add. You've sort of ended it on a very high note, especially on that issue to do with the police. Yeah. Anyway, I wanted us to sort of observe a moment of silence ah for the people who have lost their lives since June 25th of 2024 up to now.
01:05:28
Patrick Abure
And maybe mention like a few names. There was Rex Masai. There was Ivan Skiratu. There was Shieni. There was David Shege. There was Bisley Kamau.
01:05:39
Patrick Abure
There has been Alberto Juang. So we're just going to observe a moment of silence for them, even as we wind up the podcast.
01:05:48
Patrick Abure
Thank you for listening to the Spark It podcast. I have been your host, Helen Kimaru, joined by the incredible Emmanuel Taban. We were highlighting, you know, the issue of Kenyan protests and what has ah has transpired since June 25th of 2024 up to now.
01:06:08
Patrick Abure
You've been incredible ah listeners and viewers of this channel, and we appreciate your support. If this episode has sparked an interest in you to probably even start more conversations about what is affecting you wherever you are, whether it's at home, at school, or even in your own home country, wherever you are, please Learn to speak up because sometimes the issues we go through, they just cut across.
01:06:37
Patrick Abure
And thank you for all the support. Until the next episode, it's been the Spark It podcast. See you next time. Bye.
01:06:47
Emmanuel Taban
Thank you. Cool.