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Uganda Elections Under Digital Silence: Internet Shutdown, Democracy & Accountability
25 Plays1 month ago
Just two days before Uganda’s elections, the internet was shut down—cutting off millions from access to information, digital participation, and real-time reporting.
In this episode of Spark It Podcast, we unpack what this internet shutdown means for Uganda’s democracy, transparency, and accountability, with a special focus on youth voices, civic participation, and digital rights. We explore how the loss of internet access affects voters, journalists, civil society, and election observers, and what this moment signals about the future of democratic processes in Uganda and across Africa.
From government justifications around security to the real-life impact on citizens, this conversation asks critical questions: Who benefits when digital spaces are silenced? What happens to trust in elections? And how can young people continue to demand accountability in the face of shrinking civic space?
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in African politics, digital rights, election integrity, youth activism, and the future of democracy.
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Transcript
Introduction and Context Setting
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Spark It podcast. I'm your host, Ms. Kimaru, and I'm joined by our in-house political commentator, that is Emmanuel Taban. Emmanuel, happy new year.
00:00:12
Speaker
Happy new year to you, Kimaru. Good to be back after a very long time on the Spark It podcast. I know it's been a while, you know, and also it's a new year. I'm super excited to see what 2026 has for us. and to our listeners and viewers happy new year to you uh to you too or to you honestly and i hope 2226 started on a high note for you and today we are going to dive in into a very hot topic the internet was shut down in uganda what was your first reaction honestly manuel um i think i've been expecting this um it didn't take me by surprise because uh
00:00:52
Speaker
When Uganda had the elections in 2021, some incident happened. They had the previous election held on the 14th of January. Then on the 13th, the internet was shut down temporarily, and then it was reopened on the 18th of January.
00:01:11
Speaker
So I think I was expecting the same thing. And yesterday when the Ugandan Communication Commission issued a letter ah to all the the chief executive officers for the ah mobile providers companies in Uganda, I mean, like it didn't take me by surprise. so when i received the news when I read it on the media that the internet would be shut down at
Internet Shutdowns: Impact and Reactions
00:01:40
Speaker
6pm. So it wasn't a surprise. It is what I expected that would always happen.
00:01:46
Speaker
wow yeah for me i was kind of thinking oh not again another african country because of of what happened in tanzania and then it kind of made me think about accountability transparency and just letting people know exactly what is happening on the ground because i kind of feel like it kind of shuts uh people out especially even from outsiders if you wanted to have like election observation or whatever you can't get even updates on what is happening which is uh according to me it's kind of sad and it deters a lot but now since it's like the second time happening but i would kind of also feel in my personal like experience i would say
00:02:29
Speaker
with There's ah been a ah bit of awakening in recent years. Of course, if even if they did shut it down in 2021, but the political awakening that has been going on around the world would be something maybe if Ugandans had been given an opportunity to have a say of whether it should be shut down or not, they would have probably been like, no, we want it up and we want to tell our stories they just the way they are. and probably they have ah received a bit of awakening because it's something that has ah has been happening in different countries and all that. So it's it's one of those things you're like, oh, I wouldn't want this to be happening in my country. you are Yeah. okay canda good
00:03:13
Speaker
Yeah. But what what what do you think? Do you think like now for for Ugandans, for example, do you think it's something now it's a phenomenon they're used to or it's something they would want to see changed?
00:03:27
Speaker
um I think for the case of Ugandans, this This has been happening for, I think, if not the last three or two election cycles that happened in Uganda.
00:03:40
Speaker
Whenever the country is nearing the election day, the internet is shut down. And I feel that the Ugandans have normalized it. So it it becomes like something that is normal every time when the country heads towards an election, the internet is shut down.
00:03:54
Speaker
And it feels like ah they are just taking it as something normal. But I have a feeling that ah this time around it's a kind of different because just like you've said, um we have had similar incidents happen across the world, not only in Africa, but even in other continents.
00:04:11
Speaker
We've had a similar incident happen in Kenya that was mainly as an influence of social media and kind of ah the government trying to suppress the people and not giving them the freedom of access to information or express themselves.
00:04:26
Speaker
We have seen it happen in Tanzania during the election, an incident similar to the one that is happening in Uganda. We have seen a protest happening in Madagascar as a result of government repression as well.
00:04:39
Speaker
And then out of the continent, we have also seen one that happened in Nepal. And the one that happened in Nepal was mainly because the government had shut down the social media platform, just like the one happening in Uganda right now.
00:04:51
Speaker
And I feel this year's suspension is a kind of bit different because the majority of Ugandans, I think, they will pick and leave from all this that might have happened in Kenya, in Tanzania, and they might be kind of ah resistant this time around. And I really don't think if this time they'll just keep quiet.
00:05:09
Speaker
So because of the incident that happened around the kind of around the i the continent and and across the continent, um We're likely to see that this might not be treated by Ugandans as something normal, though they have been normalizing it all the previous years. But I'm i'm seeing that this one might be a little bit different.
00:05:27
Speaker
We might see some kind of a resistance from the common people in the next few hours, probably tomorrow when the election day starts.
Civil Liberties and Election Transparency
00:05:36
Speaker
yeah Do you think there could be something like, okay, you've shut down the internet, but people still have access to cell phones, you can take videos, you can literally document the whole process if you wanted to. Do you think right now Uganda could actually be going through a process where they gag people to the extent of maybe you're not allowed to record the election process?
00:06:00
Speaker
i think they can't do that it's hard to i mean they they have ah they can control the internet uh but they can't control people recording what is happening right so because we all know how the internet operates so uh all the mobile network operators in in uganda and uh and uh the internet uh service providers, they are all under the the government entity, that the Ugandan Communication Commission, and they are regulated by that entity. And whatsoever regulations that the entity comes with, these companies have to support to follow.
00:06:36
Speaker
But I think it's going to to be hard for the country to stop Ugandans from recording using their cell phones. because ah all they need to have is just have power, charge their phones and then go and record incidents. And even when the internet is restored, they they can still go on and post all these that happen. But I think the major intention of the government in setting down the internet is just to to reach that end of maybe announcing the results, when that is done, I think they will they will rest restore it. Because there's nothing you can do after that. When they declare Museveni as the president, just like what happened in the previous election, there's nothing you can do about that. So um I think
00:07:18
Speaker
The main reason why they are doing this, according to me, is to prevent that incident or that moment of Museveni being announced as the winner. It's just to to prevent that. so But after he's announced and they can restore back and they don't care if people go on and post whatsoever happened.
00:07:33
Speaker
I don't think they care. yeah Do you think this is an infringement on freedom of speech for Ugandans? I think so, it is. um Most of the constitutions of ah countries, Uganda included, Uganda had their 1995 constitution and in that constitution they have like the the civil liberties where it gives you the freedom. um express yourself, access to information where ah you can access in whatsoever way you want, you can share your information in whatsoever. So shutting down the internet is, I think, a very critical violation of that liberties, that constitution that guaranteed Ugandans. There's no reason why you're going to shut down the internet if you have a ah platform to conduct a free and fair election. So I think the suspension of the internet is a very clear infringement of the civil liberties that are supposed to be given to all Ugandans in surrounding their constitution. It is a violation of their constitution itself.
00:08:41
Speaker
And also think to add on to your point, like... um what i would say leaders should kind of understand that it's not is what always about them, it's about the people. like People hold so much power and I kind of think that African leaders or leaders around the world, they also are also awakening up to the fact that people now know what their rights are and which is why people like Uganda or the president of Uganda, they can choose to like okay let's shut down the internet but sometimes i kind of wonder also for how long for how long can you do something like that as you said ah if somebody records a video and internet is restored even if it's one month from now if we needed like evidence of what really happened in uganda for example whether the election was free and fair or maybe if there was any mishappenings if somebody recorded it
00:09:34
Speaker
the world will still see it. And that is what also again happened in Tanzania. Despite the fact that the government like shut down, the CNN documentary was made possible because people had their cell phones and people took like you know they took it up to them to make sure that, okay, you cannot allow a journalist to come here, but I'm going to tell my story. And you are you're infringing on my rights. People are dying. And this is the reality on the on the ground. And I think like elections are a very critical moment for information flow, but shutting down the internet for people and so close to voting day for Ugandans, it kind of denies them the access to facts, how to verify information, on what's happening from one, i don't know whether that they have provinces or states. from one district to another or that is all they have districts yes exactly so you you you're preventing people from knowing like what's happening happening in one district uh even if it's that information the data you know like is it really free and fair and for for young people who rely heavily on digital platforms like social media platforms um
00:10:47
Speaker
And for engagement, expression and telling their real stories, how does this shutdown, for example, reflect on them directly and their participation in a democratic process?
00:10:59
Speaker
um I mean, just like I said, you know, um the the setting down of the internet is a very clear violation. It's it's checking out the rights from these people.
00:11:12
Speaker
And, you know, as a citizen, you have a responsibility, you have a the Constitutions provide that you have a responsibility to play as a citizen and one of your responsibilities is to go and you can participate in elections and you can participate in whatever way you want. You can go and vote for the person you want, but also are you're going to make sure that you're going to protect the vote that you've actually casted. So you are going to protect that by making sure that you're going to be maybe at the at the polling station making sure that the the results that are when they're counting the the papers the ballot papers it is actually done in the right way and one way you could do that for accountability purpose is to have access to internet and just make the world know about it so um and i think that that is really really um
00:12:02
Speaker
it's it's it's ah unwanted in a democratic state. I mean, if you really know that you have a a platform to exercise, I mean, for exercising like free and fair election, then you shouldn't be that desperate to set down the internet. That clearly tells us of what level of democracy Uganda has now. So if you hear people telling you that maybe Uganda is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship, then I think you shouldn't be very quick to say maybe no, it's not. So, I mean, you should be very slow to say that because, i mean, all the signs indicate that this is not a democracy. I mean, people are not given the chance to
00:12:48
Speaker
go and and and exercise their rights peacefully. you know Their rights to access to information and even share information in whatever way they want, it's not provided to them. So I think to the young Ugandans, they probably know the state of the country that they live in today.
00:13:05
Speaker
And they have the best definition of it. If it's a democracy or dictatorship, they have the best definition for it. But to me, i think with all what is happening,
00:13:17
Speaker
That is not what a democracy does.
Motivations Behind Internet Shutdowns
00:13:20
Speaker
So it is not. And also, it kind of reminds me, in 2007, during the elections at Bomber South Kenya, this was not necessarily the internet, because at that point, I don't think there was you know Kenya was big on internet at the time, but during the election counting at Bomas of Kenya, the lights the lights went off and people claimed there was rigging due during that period. where
00:13:49
Speaker
like where where Where were the lights? There was no power at that point. yeah so it kind of It's sort of like a deja vu moment when now people are cut off from like accessing that like now actually now kind of that takes me to the next question how can an election be transparent if uh now that the world is so connected and we rely on information or maybe finding these things online how can it be transparent when you don't actually allow that process to happen
00:14:25
Speaker
I mean, it's it's it's it's impossible that ah we can have a a very transparent... mean, the fastest step of making this election not transparent is the step taken by the government to shut down the internet.
00:14:39
Speaker
That is there is one one clear move that has actually shown the world that the election that is about to happen tomorrow is not going to be in a very transparent manner because you know some of the reasons why the government claims behind them shutting down the internet is that they want to ah mitigate the rapid spread of misinformation disinformation and election fraud and and incitement of violence which would allow this is some of the reasons why they are saying but
00:15:13
Speaker
I mean, like in fact, if you have social media provided, the best way you can have a transparent election is when you have these platforms provided so people get to go live and even go on the polling station, they see exactly what is happening in the parts of the country. But I mean,
00:15:30
Speaker
Clearly, this is not going to be a very transparent election because the first step, that the first signal that indicates that is the step taken by the government to shut down the internet temporarily.
00:15:43
Speaker
so these So many people might claim that this is the same thing. In the previous election, even before Boboine, there used to be a very strong opposition leader called Kiza Besejo, who is right now in prison.
00:15:56
Speaker
Kiza used to be one of the most toughest guys who gives President Museveni sleepless nights. But then ah in one of the elections, in fact, they said he had won, but Museveni somehow decided to be the declared the winner.
00:16:10
Speaker
And um over and over again in the subsequent elections, so many people say that Museveni has always been rigging the election. He has not been winning. So with again this step that he has taken, I mean, clearly tells he's going to make a repeat of what happened previously. And you know, when people when people always accuse you of being a thief, then I think it wouldn't look good for you to involve yourself in activities that are of someone who is a thief, because the more you do that, the more you actually confirm that you're a thief. So I think that that is one thing that the the government has as failed to to do with. If they had wanted to have like a very transparent election,
00:16:51
Speaker
in a free and fair, then they shouldn't have shut down the internet. Shutting down the internet sends a very wrong information, not only to Ugandans but to the international community that something is about to happen that is not ah going to be credible in these elections. Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
And I think that now goes to the idea of public trust. If you don't allow us to see what is happening or to query the information we get from different polling stations, then where is the public trust? Why why we should we as a public or maybe as you, why should Ugandans trust the results that will come from? the outcomes of those um and also that you there's something you've talked about going live it has reminded me that nowadays as long as you have like i think a thousand followers on tick tock people can go live and be recording do you think that could be like the future of something like elections where you have young people were going live in a polling station, they're like, yes, here we are, they're counting, just in case, for example. i actually now see, to your point, why why shutting down the internet matters to some of these leaders. Because imagine if somebody, like Emmanuel is somewhere somewhere in a district in Uganda, and he's recording, and votes are being counted. And if there were 100, he has said on the live it's 100. and you want to go and probably change the outcomes do you think that could be actually a good idea in the long run for outcomes of an election i i think that is that is this is what we call like we always tell like uh the people's uh they call it uh they say what they call people's journalism or what where um i mean like people just want uh things to be done in i mean
00:18:41
Speaker
if If I'm a president and I know that the election is going to be done in a free and fair, I mean, I don't have to care about people going there to take live videos because I know things are going to be done right anyway. So why should I get worried over one thing? you but I mean, trying to prevent people from going live. But that could even be the best way of making things in a very transparent way. I mean, people know this is the exact number of the votes that one got from this polling station and the other one and the other one. People can just like go and add them up and see what results it brings. But I think, whereas that might not, it it it it could be the best way of which are it it creates more trust on on the process. um I mean,
00:19:24
Speaker
young people get to know about because you know young people always engage in social media and they know they like using it in that way so i feel that could be the best way if we really want to create trust in the in the people and in the systems and in the process like an election then that would be the best way to to do things right It's like an open, transparent way where everyone goes home after the result and they're satisfied that indeed this person has won, this one has failed. And people don't have to get angry when they get home. They know why they lose the election because this person has got more votes than the other. There's clear indication there is no incidence of rigging or anything. i mean, stealing votes,
Leadership and Democratic Transitions
00:20:05
Speaker
there's nothing that happens. So that could be the best way if people really want to create a very good trust.
00:20:11
Speaker
hu Yeah. and And now that to to just echo what you said, the question would be like, what is this that President Museveni is so afraid of?
00:20:23
Speaker
You know, like, make it make sense. oh I mean, ah President Museveni has been in power for quite long. I mean, this is going to be his seventh time.
00:20:35
Speaker
He's going to be his seventh time, going to power since 1986.
00:20:40
Speaker
That's a long time. Yeah, and the so many people seem to have gotten tired of Museveni. It is very clear that people are tired of Museveni, even those who are his supporters, they have really gotten tired of him.
00:20:57
Speaker
but and um not because maybe he's not doing right, but you know when something happens over and over again, ah it becomes monotonous and people really would want to see something new. right So ah President Museveni, in my view, fears that if Uganda is really going to have like a very going to go into an election in a very credible, free and fair manner, there are high chances of him not winning.
00:21:26
Speaker
Right? I mean, we have seen this. i don't know if you've been following the Ugandan campaign rallies, but you can see the kind of support that the opposition is getting, especially the... I mean, but why? from all regions, from all districts, he's getting the support. And the people argue that if Museveni and Bobo Wain are provided in a platform where an election is done in a free and fair manner, Wain will always win that election. So I think that is the fear of Museveni, that if it is done in that way, then he will probably not have time to do not win that that election. So that is where his fear, I think, is derived from.
00:22:01
Speaker
The fear of losing and the fear of, ah I mean, seeing that if things are done that way, then obviously, majority of the votes are going to go to the opposition. And this is ah someone who has been staying in power for quite long, is used to power, how, i mean, is used to how sweet power is, and it will be very hard for him to give up, you know, to be very hard.
00:22:25
Speaker
But I also wonder for how long, I mean, if if from 1986 he's been in power, how long should actually a leader be in power? It doesn't make sense. It kind of feels like the best leadership is the one that keeps transitioning from one hand to the other or whatever.
00:22:41
Speaker
It kind of feels like you need to give people a break. and allow them to experience the leadership of another person. because And I think we've talked about this in the past on this particular podcast about the idea of, OK, if he feels he's so good for Uganda, then what happens eventually when he has to get out of Uganda, as in out of the whatever the presidency would he leave uh uganda maybe in a stable way or you know because of the way he's so used to that power there'll be power struggles and then it takes uganda you know a couple of years back to a couple years to recover or how does it mean that how does that look like for uganda because for him it's like he has never given ugandans an option to actually
00:23:28
Speaker
think like there's another person we can actually work with and right now there could be as that is something year old who was born when museveni was in power and still in power it's it's quite a sad thing and now that's why sorry uh-huh yeah i'll say exactly that's right Yeah, and that kind of takes me to the idea of accountability. When you shut down the internet, there's also that we talked about transparency, but also it boils down to also accountability.
00:23:59
Speaker
How are you going to be accountable to people who is benefiting from this whole thing? And how does that affect people eventually in in the context of accountability and knowing that we had a free and fair election?
00:24:13
Speaker
um I mean, like, think really some of these principles of ah things to do with accountability, I don't think if they really do matter to people like her like Museveni, I mean, they don't really care what people will say about them. All they need is just to to win. that's That's all. And they will take whatsoever step they can to make sure that they they win. And doesn't matter how it's going affect the people. you know They don't really care so much about this principle of accountability, of incredible elections, all these. These don't really matter to them a lot.
00:24:49
Speaker
really don't matter. And all they're looking for is just to have the win on their side and does it, call it the day. And no matter what you want to say, i mean, we have seen an example of what happened in Tanzania in a very serious country.
00:25:04
Speaker
i mean, the president, of we wouldn't be having the current president of Tanzania as a president in store. yeah No. yeah Probably will have a kind i mean the results would be contested, taken to maybe the judiciary, they would go and petition it and then ask the code the court would nullify it. and went i mean Tanzania would have gone back to another election.
00:25:25
Speaker
i mean like But that didn't happen. that didn't happen And this is a common trend that is happening in the African continent. People really don't care about what the common citizen or the common people tells them. They really care. What they want is what matters to them. And that is is what exactly what President Museveni is doing. he doesn't much He doesn't care what people would say about him. doesn't care about accountability and all other principles of good governance. They don't really care about it. What they want is they want the power just for themselves. And that's all.
00:25:57
Speaker
So it's no longer a leadership for the people by the people. It's not. It's more of, there's some element of, maybe I would say dictatorship or something. Exactly.
Democratic Standards in Uganda
00:26:10
Speaker
would so.
00:26:11
Speaker
yeah honestly it kind of it's it's a it's a weird thing to be happening in 2026 honestly it feels like are we in 1990. and then uh so for for for um for a ugandan Do you think like for them they would probably be feeling that it's justified regardless of what the government tells them? Do you think if you were in their shoes they would feel justified to ah to for the internet to be shut down? And also, you can answer that one first and then I'll remember. I think Museveni supporters, those who support him, always say that there is a very good justification for that because they know that they impact that. So those who support Museveni always say, yeah, there's justification for that because they don't want, like,
00:27:01
Speaker
and people to have like a disorder. i mean They go probably inside violence when the internet is there. People will provide wrong information about the results and all this. So to supporters of Museveni, they always see a justification for that, setting down internet. but Which is, and on the other hand, people who are in the opposition, they don't see any reason why that should be should have been done. So there's no justification for that. For the opposition, all they see is that it's someone who just fear losing and that's someone who knows that he's going to lose if they are given, like, go into an election in a very credible manner. So that is the contrast. So the section of Ugandans who are supporters of Museveni, I've always said there's justification for that.
00:27:46
Speaker
And then those who are in opposition, they don't see any justification. So that's how divided Ugandans are. yeah But all in all, I don't think there is the justification for shutting down an internet in whatsoever manner. I mean, we have so many institutions. If you're talking about things to do with a ah incitement of violence, we have so many law enforcement agencies. We should have done that to make sure that violence is going to spread in in a process like this. We have the police, we have
00:28:17
Speaker
If things go worse, we have the military, you can do that, bring the military, after a court order, maybe deploy them in order to bring calm to country. The police is there. But then ah they decided to go for the internet because they know how powerful the internet is.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I think to summarize what you're saying, it's about if the government can decide to use the structures that are in place, whether it's the police force, the military, or even when they talk about like misinformation, there's a way you can verify information. They invest in how to people can verify information. then it's a better way to mitigate all these issues rather than shutting down the internet. But for them, it's like they're choosing to take the shortcut instead of developing structures that would help them have free, fair and credible elections. And that even comes now, for me, i now wonder what's the need of having elections if there's no transparency, it's not free, it's not fair. there's no accountability. it's like
00:29:18
Speaker
it's like just it doesn't matter It's like what happened in Tanzania. like How can you say you actually garnered 98% of the votes and that those ones were counted manually in a day or two and that's like more than 30 something million votes. it It doesn't make sense. It beats logic.
00:29:38
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And the democratic process, I don't know. a what' So do you think now, from what Uganda is going through, do you really think they are experiencing democracy or it's a dictatorship?
00:29:54
Speaker
um Just like I said, um I mean, like if if we look at the democracy, um i mean i know there are sections of Africans who really don't agree to the they idea of democracy. They look at it as a ah westernized kind of stuff. i mean and But if if we look from the lens of ah where it is created, ah western standards, there are principles of democracy. I know so many countries
00:30:25
Speaker
wants to be a democracy and they seem to love all the principles that come along with the democracy. And when we look at democracy as principles. When we're looking at them, we're looking at the principles of accountability. We're looking at things to do with giving freedom expression to people where people get to i mean express themselves in whatever way they want, where they can communicate and associate with whosoever they want to.
00:30:52
Speaker
and when we see that some of these principles are lacking, of course, it it makes that not a democracy, it makes it sort of that. So if you want to give an answer of whether Uganda is a democracy or not, then you should see if some of the um principles that they are embedded in democracy, if they are so practiced in Uganda, then that will give you a very good definition of whether Uganda is a democracy
Future of Uganda's Political Landscape
00:31:18
Speaker
or not. Is there a way of accountability?
00:31:21
Speaker
Is there freedom given to people? do they exercise their ah their freedom freely without being interrupted? Can they go and associate with whosoever they want without being a tortured or imprisoned.
00:31:34
Speaker
So yeah that clearly will tell us if Uganda is a democracy or not, by just seeing if some of these principles are applied in the country. Makes sense. And looking back, the other time me and you were discussing the headline that the Standard had had put after the elections in Tanzania, they put um Sulu who wrote her and on the same headline i I think it was tyranny of something so
00:32:05
Speaker
trinity entirely tri of ty yeah ready so It looks like with the kind of trends that is happening nowadays, there was uganda and know there was Tanzania and now there's the shutdown in Uganda.
00:32:20
Speaker
Do you think that in other African countries, they might follow suit? Like this might become something that African leaders now borrow and execute in their own countries during elections?
00:32:31
Speaker
You know, when someone said that the easiest thing, that couldn't something that can easily spread dictatorship, dictatorship is spread so easily compared to democracy. So when we, I mean, like it's very easy for it to spread.
00:32:46
Speaker
And we have seen already how it happened in in in in in Kenya during the protests, how the civilians were handled. I mean, most of them were, some of them were killed during the protests. There's no accountability for that. afternoon now I don't think if there's any of these are military men arrested and taken to to face the law. No, we have seen the same thing happening in Tanzania. Tanzania has never experienced this, by the way.
00:33:09
Speaker
It's only reason that we have seen it last year. And then again, the same thing is repeating in in Uganda. This has been happening for quite long. So this clearly tells us that probably in the next few years, we are likely to see some incidents happen in other African countries.
00:33:25
Speaker
have seen this happen so many times. And just like I said, the easiest thing to spread, like wildfire is dictatorship. It's easy to to to to to to spread it. So we are likely to see this repeat itself in other African continents if we are not there ah serious as citizens and and and common people to make sure our rights are protected. So we might see this repeat in other African countries.
00:33:50
Speaker
And now you you follow Kenyan politics a lot. From your analysis of the political climate in Kenya, and now that you're also heading to an election next year, in the same question. Do you think there is a likelihood, like on a scale of one to ten, how likely is Kenya going to be shut down? How likely do you think we can be shut down also in the context the internet?
00:34:13
Speaker
i think ah i think Kenya, like honestly, I mean, Kenya, like it's it's it's a country on its own. I mean, like you can't shut down internet in Kenya and you expect Kenyans to just sit at home and feel comfortable. No, I don't think they will do that.
00:34:31
Speaker
Kenyans will always put up the decent kind of resistance. They will always, they will resist it. However much the government will shut them down, try to suppress them, but they will always stand and go on the street. And that is the difference between Kenyans and the rest of Africans, I see. I mean, they have that confidence to stand up and and go and ask for what belongs to them. They do have that, which I feel is lacking in so many other African countries. So, and and we we may see that happen. I mean, the other revelations that came that during the protests in Kenya, there were actually moves by some individuals to slow down the internet.
00:35:07
Speaker
That happened. we We might see that happen in Kenya, but I don't see that if it happens, then Kenya would just sit comfortably and watch the government do that. They'll probably stand up and go and protest in the streets.
00:35:19
Speaker
And that's the difference between Kenya. And I feel that, I mean, to be really a president of Kenya is not an easy thing. a you have like a very i mean very literate people who forms the population i mean kenya has a very good number of educated people and they when you're educated you get to know about what you your rights are, you know you know your constitution, you're exposed to it, you know what you deserve. And therefore it's very hard to deal with people who are learned, right?
00:35:48
Speaker
Educated people, it's really, really hard. So you're not going to... And and it's not that even these people who are government are much more smarter than those who are just ordinary people. Sometimes the smartest minds in Kenya are the ones that are just sitting at home, you know? And that's why when you see these platforms in Kenya, you see people speaking, young people, speaking very great things that are even equivalent of what these people occupying these public positions are saying. Even some of them do better things than them. So I don't think if this happened in Kenya, they will just sit.
00:36:17
Speaker
They won't do that. I mean, they're going to just sit down and let their government do that. No. Even if the government has the intentions of shutting down the internet, I think they're also going to face it from the Kenyan. Yeah. it. Yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
honestly agree with you. I think even if they attempted something like that, there'll be resistance. So it won't just be like one of those things that you are like, okay, it's okay. Yeah.
00:36:43
Speaker
Interesting, interesting. And now maybe winding up this particular episode, what does the future look like for Ugandans? or even democratic processes in the context of elections, when leaders think that it's okay to shut down the internet or maybe accountability processes or not set up structures that can actually allow for accountability and processes. What do you think is is the future?
00:37:11
Speaker
um I think ah as long as we have the current regime in Uganda, we'll continue to see the same things happening over and over again. So there must be a deliberate move by someone who is a leader of the country to make sure these things are stopped.
00:37:25
Speaker
And um we have seen it happen so many times, not once, not twice, but over and over again. So if we want to see that this is stopped, then probably we need to have like a new person in that position. so But Ugandans know why probably they are going back to vote for Museveni But if they are voting for him, probably they are comfortable with what is happening. They are comfortable with the internet being sat down. But yes, if we want to have Uganda democratic state, then we need to i mean stop doing some of these things.
00:37:54
Speaker
Instead of shutting down the internet as a way of mitigating misinformation, use some of the institutions. We have ah institutions that can i mean do what they can they can do, fact-checking. They can make sure that we have the right information, spread it. We have even the right sources of information that the public is encouraged to get information from them, not just any other person. If you plan that you want to mitigate the spread of violence in the country, we have institutions of government. We have
00:38:25
Speaker
um We have the national police service, we have the military, we have other special forces in the country that their role is to make sure that there is no violence in the country. So in instead of shutting down the internet, why not use these in institutions?
00:38:39
Speaker
So we have every single thing. We even do have laws on how information is supposed to be spread to different parts of the country. we have um Probably Uganda has an act on public order. I mean, how are people are supposed to operate in public. So instead of using the internet as a, I mean, just setting down the internet, they could have used all these ah provisions and make sure that the same purpose, ah I mean, december they can still attain the same reason for
Conclusion and Hopes for Uganda
00:39:08
Speaker
setting down internet. So um I think to have a very democratic Uganda, then they need to have a change of government.
00:39:15
Speaker
That's what I would say. Or if Museveni will change his mind and now say, this is not what I want to do. You need to step up and and change what he has been doing. Yeah. Oh, wow. And that makes a lot of sense, honestly. It's like for them to experience change, as you've there has to be transition.
00:39:33
Speaker
Like they have to transition from Museveni, what they've been used to, for the longest and then maybe something else might change. And I remember there was a clip I saw a while back, when he was telling them, just one last time. Yeah. Just one last time. Do you think this could be his last time or he's just lying to the Buddha?
00:39:55
Speaker
If Museveni, and I'm very quite sure that he's going to win, it's not I mean, in any whatsoever way, but I'm very sure that he's going to be declared the president. and um But also we have seen a similar ah people like him who are getting old and how yeah their power ended. I mean, we have seen that Robert Mugabe,
00:40:18
Speaker
and then of of Zimbabwe when you've gotten to 92 years old. And then like when you reach that age, you become so weak. And even you start losing people who are your close associate, people who are you, depending on them, they start deserting you.
00:40:34
Speaker
And I think even if Museveni wins this, I don don't think if there's any, if he will actually go beyond ah this election, I feel this could be, if he's declared the president, this could be the end of his regime after these five years, probably because his age might not favor him in the next coming elections.
00:40:55
Speaker
And yeah, but yeah, that's that's what I'm seeing. But also as much more, i mean, as you grow older, I mean, you get to lose support of the people, even those close to you. They start looking at their self-interest because they know that after some time, this person is going to be normal. So people started re-strategizing on how they can survive in your absence. So probably they'll start aligning themselves to new political parties, new political waves, so that when you die or when you no more in the politics of the country, they can still have that ground to survive on their own.
00:41:27
Speaker
So yeah I think he's in a very bad stage right now. He might survive this election, but he won't survive the next one. Oh, wow. That kind of makes sense. And I think it kind of summarizes this particular episode, because I believe that if he survives this one, that the next one Ugandans would have really been fed up and they'd be probably be calling for change so there's really no shortcut for him at the end of the day at some point power has to probably just pass to the next person yeah you can't remain in power forever thank you manuel for joining us for this particular episode and for sharing your insights it's amazing i really pray and hope that everything turns out well for you candles and despite the internet shut down or even the idea that the um elections might not be free and fair that they might actually make peace with the whatever happens the outcomes and then maybe in the future maybe you know things can get better and they can you know transition from this particular leadership to the next and eventually they get to experience a democratic process in their country in the context of elections for our listeners and viewers thank you for supporting this packet podcast i'm your host kimaru until the next one bye thank you kimaru bye
00:42:54
Speaker
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