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SPECIAL – The New DCU Slate
355 Plays2 years ago
Author and returning guest Gordon Dymowski joins Perry to discuss James Gunn and Peter Safran's recent announcement of the new DCU slate. We talk about how we got here, our thoughts on what we heard, and what we'd like to see in the future.
If you're in the Chicagoland area, join Gordon in the Chicago Doctor Who Meetup. You can also find his books on Amazon or subscribe to his Patreon.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
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Transcript
New DC Slate Excitement
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to a special episode of the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and I'm joined by a returning guest, and that's Gordon Damowski. Gordon, how you doing today? Pretty good. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. So the reason for this special episode is we got a big announcement from James Gunn and Peter Safran about the new DC slate of movies, TV shows, and all that kind of stuff.
00:00:43
Speaker
I figure every single podcast in this space is doing something similar, but I thought it'd be good to just kind of put something out and talk about it and kind of get our impressions out about it. And I put out a call on Twitter, and you were nice enough to volunteer your time to come on to talk about this. So thank you for doing that. No problem.
DC's Past Inconsistencies
00:01:04
Speaker
I mean, when I heard the news, I was actually
00:01:09
Speaker
I was actually pretty stoked because I was pleasantly surprised by some of the choices, especially the first thing that was announced. I think after a period where we had maybe a focus more on being very much about mythology and high drama and
00:01:30
Speaker
having it basically to generate into a Three Stooges style existential food fight. It's nice to actually see that, okay, these are actually things that I would want to watch and it feels like there's at least some thought behind the plan rather than just like throwing stuff out there the way it's been in the past.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, I agree as well. Before we dive too deep into that, though, let's kind of talk about how we got to this point,
Warner Brothers Acquisition Impact
00:02:02
Speaker
right? So obviously, we had Discovery bought out Warner Brothers, David Zazlov took control. And ever since Zack Snyder stepped away from the DCEU, it's just been kind of all over the place tonally, right? We've had
00:02:19
Speaker
DC and James Gunn even mentioned this in his announcement said you know DC was just kind of like you know farming out their IPs to to anybody that they thought could do something without any real sort of plan in mind for it and I think there's a lot of truth to that and it's not all been bad by any means we've gotten some good stuff out of it like you know we got the there's some great casting choices at least in the from what the came from the Snyderverse I thought pretty much
00:02:45
Speaker
all the casting choices outside of Ezra Miller, I thought were very well done. We got Patty Jenkins Wonder Woman and we got, you know, Jason Momoa's Aquaman movie, directed by James Wan and we got Shazam! And then
Gunn's Strategic Direction
00:03:01
Speaker
we got stuff that was, you know, also kind of
00:03:05
Speaker
just an odd choice, like going with Matt Reeves' Batman with Robert Pattinson, which is not really part of anything. And then we had the Joker with Joaquin Phoenix, which again is not really part of anything. Yeah, it felt very much like
00:03:20
Speaker
Reminded me of Marvel in the 90s where you had the bad Punisher movies they sell off in the in the lead-in to their filing for bankruptcy they sell off the Fantastic Four and Spider-man to other companies. There was There's a bunch of you know, there's that really bad Captain America movie with JD Salinger's son And it felt like DC
00:03:47
Speaker
at least leading into Zack Snyder, as much as there's a lot of, he might not have been the best guy for the job stylistically, I think that there's at least an effort to kind of go, the approach was, okay, we got to catch up to Marvel. And I think between Snyder stepping down, you kind of had the whole,
00:04:12
Speaker
Walter, I'm going to mess up his last name. Hamada. Hamada, thank you. Kind of did a different thing where it's like, OK, well, we're going to have different movies and different multiverses. So there was the Matt Reeves Batman. There's the Batgirl movie that Snyder later scrapped. Not Snyder. It was Zazlov who scrapped the Batgirl movie. Oh, I'm sorry. Zazlov, yeah. And remember,
00:04:38
Speaker
Zazlov is the guy who brought us Honey Boo Boo. Let's keep that in mind.
Success with Lesser-Known Characters
00:04:43
Speaker
He's a reality guy. And then there was all sorts of reshoots around the Flash movie because of Ezra Miller's activities, as well as some other stuff that was kind of going on. And it really felt like, at least the initial Snyder concept was an effort to go, okay, we're going to try to put together some thought. And it seems like when Gunn came in,
00:05:08
Speaker
He came in with, you know, he had just been fired from Marvel because of trolls on Twitter. Then DC had him do the Suicide Squad sequel, which was really good. Out of that came Peacemaker. And I think what DC saw is that Gunn has a sensibility of, he knows comics. He can see the inherent goofiness of them, but he's also really good at
00:05:38
Speaker
Finding character beats where you might not see them. I mean nobody ever said like even as early as say Five years ago. No one would say peacemaker. That's going to be a really cool streaming series with suicide squad the fact that he managed to make a sequel that I
00:06:00
Speaker
Basically flipped expectations on their head. I mean the first 15 minutes or you're expecting to see one thing and you you find it becomes another movie because the first team gets killed off and so and I think like gun the way I I think gun is the Kind of the creative mind and sassman says last name saffron that peter saffron peter saffron is like
00:06:30
Speaker
Safran is the business guy. I think there's some thought point to it. I love the fact that Gunn didn't say like, this is our eight to 10 year plan. He said, this is what we're willing to announce right now. And we've got other stuff coming down the pike, which to me is very refreshing after the whole Snyder. Here's our timeline for the next 10 years until it's not. Yeah. So I think there's a real intelligence and a real,
00:06:58
Speaker
It feels like there are adults in the room right now, if that makes sense. I think there's a real thought behind it.
00:07:06
Speaker
One of the things Gunn did too, and this kind of piggybacking off what you had said, is he had done something that I thought probably would have seemed impossible at the time, which was he made a movie with the Suicide Squad that was both consistent with the Suicide Squad movie that was already out with David Ayers, but also managed to not be chained down by it.
00:07:28
Speaker
and still managed to be
Moral Ambiguity in Films
00:07:30
Speaker
its own thing and be a lot more entertaining too and also still have gun sensibility wrapped up in there and then he went from that to Peacemaker you know I mean and I had said this when we did our Peacemaker episode I thought you know okay
00:07:45
Speaker
you know, this is clearly just a vehicle because they want to get more mileage out of John Cena because he's, you know, up and coming action star. So they're just tossing him this, I don't know if it'd be any good, I'm not sure if I'm going to be interested in it. And then even when it premiered, I just kind of let it sit for a few for a few weeks or so until probably until about Episode Five came out and then
00:08:06
Speaker
and everybody on the line was saying, dude, you gotta watch Peacemaker. And I checked it out and I was blown away by how well it was. I mean, talk about finding character bits. It was an amazing exploration of character. Yeah, and I think Gunn understands how to balance that need to be comic booky with the need for really grounding it in solid characterization. I mean, the fact that in his Suicide Squad,
00:08:36
Speaker
You know, he he pulls arm fall off boy from the Legion calls him the detachable kid. That's kind of his sensibilities. Like he gives even wacky characters have a sense of seriousness about them. And that's what I think. I think it's what he brings to the table. He's also not afraid of like bright colors and light and sunshine. He's also willing to take. I mean, that's a that's a.
Bright Colors vs. Gritty Realism
00:09:04
Speaker
Sorry, sorry, go ahead. I was about to say it's he's also willing to take on very morally ambiguous and goes to the in terms of plot. Like I'm thinking with Suicide Squad, you know, there's a you know, they know they're going to get killed if they don't if they don't defy the mission. But there's also that that scene at the end between Cena and Flag where they're fighting over the ethics of the situation. Most directors I don't with comic book movies wouldn't go there. He did.
00:09:36
Speaker
Also too, and this is going into what you said about the colors and how he makes things, he's able to ground things even if they see comic bookie. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's a, I mean, he had fricking Polkadot man in that movie. He had kink, shh.
00:09:52
Speaker
I mean, he had freaking Polkadot Man in that movie and made him manage to seem like a grounded character. King Shark, right? And he did the same thing with the Guardians movies where King Shark felt like the most human character out of everyone, even though he's a giant CGI shark with Stallone's voice. And he did the same thing with Groot, right? Groot was this, you know, big monosyllabic or trisyllabic, I guess, technically.
00:10:16
Speaker
you know, creature and managed to be the most human character in that movie. And so he's able to take these really wild concepts and he's able to show that you don't need to ground things by setting it in the real world or by darkening everything up. And I mean, you know,
Superman Legacy's Approach
00:10:35
Speaker
I love Matt Reeves' The Batman movie as much as anybody, but I am also tired of this idea that Batman has to be grounded in a real world setting. We've seen that time and time again. We can have something a little bit different. Yeah, I think that, and in looking at a lot of his selections, especially the first one that came out,
00:11:00
Speaker
And I'll be honest, when they announced Creature Commandos was like their first project, it's like, okay, yeah. It's a guy who understands comic history and isn't afraid to embrace the kind of sillier side of it.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, so let's run down the list, actually, and go down what we got here. So the ones here, and I'm not sure if this is in, the one that's going to be the one that's released first is Superman Legacy, which is going to be this, that's going to be like the start of the DCU, but it's not an origin story.
00:11:37
Speaker
It seems similar to what Matt Reeves did with the Batman, where it's going to be like a story set in year two or year three that he's out there. He's been around for a little bit. We know the main cast already, so we don't have to worry about reintroducing everybody. But it's going to focus on him trying to balance his Kryptonian heritage with his human upbringing.
00:12:03
Speaker
And one of the things I loved about this is Peter Safran said he is kindness in a world that thinks that kindness is old fashioned. And I love that idea because I think that was one of the things that made the Chris Evans Captain America movie so strong was that idea that almost man out of time ethics that Cap had that
00:12:26
Speaker
you know, contrasted with the cold hard realities of a post-9-11 America. And I thought that movie perfectly showed that, yeah, you can have a guy who has this kind of code, moral code, and set him in a modern day, and it can still be very realistic. It doesn't have to seem hokey or old fashioned or anything like that. So I was really happy to hear about that. What did you think?
00:12:54
Speaker
I thought I was really glad to hear it too because we need a halfway decent Superman movie. I think we've spent too much time with, you know, tortured, gloomy Superman. This is someone who is, you know, yes, they're struggling with their heritage, but hearing things about kindness and empathy, I think those are things that, to be honest, I think it's what people are looking for in movies right now. And I think
00:13:22
Speaker
bringing Superman back to the idea of, you know, he's not just a big blue boy scout. He's, you know, he's, you know, he has issues, but he's also like, it's returning him to the ideal that like Chris Reeve tried to embody. It's just, he's a decent person trying to do the right thing. He just happens to
Recasting Superman and Batman
00:13:42
Speaker
fly. Exactly, yeah. Now, one of the things that I find interesting about this is,
00:13:51
Speaker
the decision to recast the role and to keep Henry Cavill out of it. Because, you know, Gunn seemed to have left the door open for Jason Momoa as Aquaman, for Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, for Ezra Miller as the Flash, and we'll get into that one later. But when it comes to Superman and Batman, they seemed almost determined to do a recasting.
00:14:16
Speaker
Now, I'm one of the guys who feel I did not like the Snyder movies at all. I like the first half of Man of Steel. Up until Jonathan dies, I was on board. Then after that moment happens, it just completely lost me, and then it kept on getting worse from that point on. But I thought there were some really good ideas in there, and I thought Cavill had some really good
00:14:41
Speaker
beginnings as Superman. He had some very nice shades of it. And then, you know, when we got to, again, I hated the ultimate cut of Batman v Superman. I know everyone says it's better. I say it's more consistent, but it doesn't make it better. I think a lot of the problems are still there.
00:14:59
Speaker
But, you know, it showed him, you know, acting as an investigative reporter in some degree. And I like that aspect of it too. And so we see him in all these different iterations. And then, again, the Jostis League cut, lots of problems with that. But one of the things I loved is that Cavill actually seemed to have a chance to be charming a Superman. You know, bad CGI lip aside, I think he kind of showed us, he gave us a glimpse of what he could do if he had the right director, if he had the right script.
00:15:28
Speaker
The fact that he got stuck in the middle of this push and pull between Dwayne Johnson and Warner Brothers is, I think he was made an unfortunate casualty of that. What do you think about the idea of keeping other actors in but recasting Superman?
00:15:48
Speaker
Well, I think with the approach that Gunn wants to take, you need a younger actor. And I think Cavill, in all fairness, I think he's probably, cause I think he's in what is like mid thirties, maybe early to mid thirties. I think he might be a little old for the role. I do think that, you know, and Gunn even came out and said that Cavill was quote unquote, dicked around by the studio.
00:16:15
Speaker
because of the whole thing with Dwayne Johnson.
00:16:20
Speaker
I would love to have Cavill at least get a fair shot at the role one more time. And I know that Gunn has kind of said that certain movies are going to be part of an Elseworlds branded line. So like the Joker sequel and the Reeves Batman. I'd love to see him at least get one more shot. Because I think that, you know, I didn't like that. Didn't like the just first movie except for those scenes.
00:16:47
Speaker
I I on I didn't I didn't care too much for man of steel, um Batman V Superman it was I saw the ultimate cut. I want my those three hours of my life back I just I really I really think and I think it's not just Snyder's direction I think it's also some huge script problems. So I think it would be nice to give Kavil, you know, maybe you give him a
00:17:14
Speaker
an Elseworld project where he actually gets to be a halfway decent Superman and give him one more shot at it. So I do think for
Darker Supergirl Film
00:17:26
Speaker
Gunn's intended project, now there may be a project down the line that he gives to Cavell, but I think he deserves at least one fair shot, another crack at the roll. If only that he can be part of a script that would allow him to be Superman.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. Well, you know, here's some things I'm thinking about just in my mind, as you mentioned that, and, you know, especially if you're looking at him as more of an older Superman. I mean, if you could get Ben Affleck to come back, you could probably actually do what Dark Knight returns in live action properly, instead of like the kind of
00:18:03
Speaker
Dark Knight Returns-esque stuff we got in Batman v Superman. And because, you know, in that story, Superman is supposed to look perpetually young anyway, so it would make sense for Cavill to look younger than Batman anyway. But also, you know, we could do something like, you know, one of the images that Gunn tweeted out was of Kingdom Come. We could see him in like a Kingdom Come movie or something like that, or
00:18:27
Speaker
you know, whatever happened the man of tomorrow or any sort of, you know, one of those timeless out of continuity stories or something that we could use with Superman, I think would be interesting to see what they do with that. And yeah, I hope we get something like that at some point. I was also thinking about this idea of him struggling with his Kryptonian heritage.
00:18:49
Speaker
And I think one way you could do it that I think would feel unique is, did you read Superman Smashes the Clan?
00:18:59
Speaker
Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yeah, I'm with you. I think he would work in that story because you need someone who's going, one, it gives him a good crack at the role, but also it gives him a chance to, it's out of continuity, but I think he's got, Cavill has that kind of like classic, that kind of classic 1930s-esque look. I mean, you know what I mean? He's got just that vibe about him. I mean, he was really good man from uncle.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. You're the only reason I sat through man from uncle. Yeah. I mean, you know, granted he, I think he does a little, he leans a little too much into the Robert Vaughn-ness of the role, but he's good in that setting. I think if you put Cavill in a Superman saves the clan type setting and you can, uh, that I think would be perfect for him. Cause I do think he deserves another shot at the role because he did kind of get push and hold, you know, give him a script that he can really lean into.
00:19:58
Speaker
and let him just, let that be his last hurrah. Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker
So the other project that's listed here in the article I've got open in front of me is Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow, which is taking inspiration from the recent Tom King miniseries. And Gunn said that this would be a very different type of Supergirl and much more hardcore. He said, we'll see the difference between Superman, who was sent to Earth and raised by loving parents from the time he was an infant, versus Supergirl, raised on a rock, a chip off of Krypton, and who watched everyone around her die and be killed in terrible ways.
00:20:33
Speaker
for the first 14 years of her life and then come to Earth. She is much more hardcore and not the Supergirl we're used to. Now, I haven't read Woman of Tomorrow yet, but I understand it is amazing from what everyone has said. And I think, you know, when they when they talked about doing a Supergirl movie, I was getting flashes to the Supergirl TV show. No Supergirl had a TV show.
00:20:59
Speaker
Oh, wait, yeah, that's, I'm sorry. Mad cow. Oh, were you serious? I was talking about the, I thought you were making a joke. Oh, no, no, I completely blanked on the CW series. Okay. So folks, I'm over 40. Please understand.
00:21:15
Speaker
Things happen. One of the things that, you know, I thought about, because if you're going to have a Superman and a Supergirl both in movies, you got to find a way to differentiate them. And I think if we had, I think it was smart of the CW to hold off on doing a Superman TV show until after Supergirl had ended, because otherwise it feels like that Supergirl show, it felt very tonally consistent with what we'd expect from Superman.
00:21:42
Speaker
And so seeing this idea here, based off the Tom King series, I think it's, I'm really curious about this. I wasn't really interested in the Woman of Tomorrow mini series, but now I'm really curious to check it out. What are some of your thoughts about this Supergirl project? I'm curious to check out. I want to check out the comics. I know King, for me, he's a very hit or miss writer. Like I loved his work on, I love Strange Adventures.
00:22:10
Speaker
And I really enjoyed, um, I'm enjoying his human target series part. Yeah. Mr. Miracle human target. Um, I thought that.
00:22:21
Speaker
I wasn't a big fan of, I liked his approach in Heroes in Crisis, but that's a book that, you know, to me felt very much, you could tell that the editors had a heavy hand in it. And it seemed like he wanted to go one way, but was told to go another way. So it's, it's mixed feelings, but I'd say I liked the approach, just not the execution. And I also was not, I didn't really care for his war shock series. It was just kind of there.
00:22:51
Speaker
So I think as a writer, he does some really interesting stuff about kind of the impact of heroic experiences on the superhero. Vision was a great series. I thought that was, I'm not sure if you read his vision work, but yeah, that was amazing. Yes, I did. I liked most of his Batman. I know a lot of people soured on it at a point, but I was fine with it for the most part. I thought maybe it didn't,
00:23:19
Speaker
maybe it ended a little anticlimactically, but otherwise I was mostly okay with it. I thought his Superman series, what was it? I think it was called Up in the Sky. That was brilliant. I love that.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah. His Batman, I have mixed feelings about, but it's also, again, I appreciated their approach. I just didn't care for the execution. Like I'm not going to, I'm not settled on him. It's just, he's one of those writers that I either really, really like or I'm kind of mad. I'm not like, Oh, that's garbage. Let's throw it out. You know? So, cause I do think he's, he has a very unique take on superheroes. Yeah. And I think it, it'll be different to have a,
00:23:59
Speaker
a supergirl who might be more hardcore, but who isn't. But part of it is a reaction to growing up on a floating rock in space. So I think and I think knowing Gunn's approach, he does it. A lot of that that kind of content he does with sensitivity, both also a sense of realism. So even if he's not the director of that, I think he's looking at it from the standpoint of how do we do this in the best way where it's not just, you know,
00:24:28
Speaker
It's not an image comic come to life. It does, it does. And I think with Peacemaker, he proved that he can definitely do that because there you've got this character with this very rough upbringing who discovers a moral code through that. And we get a very complex portrayal as opposed to something you'd see, like you said, in an early 90s image comic or something you'd see in the Snyder movies where it's just violent origin equals
00:24:58
Speaker
edgy superhero.
New Batman Film: The Brave and the Bold
00:24:59
Speaker
And that's kind of what we're going with. And Gunn doesn't seem interested in that kind of stuff. So I think we'll definitely get something nuanced out of that. So yeah, I'm, that's the one I'm probably the most curious about just based on what we see here. The next one that was announced here that's on this list is the Brave and the Bold, which is going to be this is going to this and this is something I've been waiting for for a long time.
00:25:26
Speaker
is that they're going to, you know, just like I said about Matt Reeves' Batman, as much as I love that movie, I am kind of disappointed that we keep going back to this well-loved Let's Put Batman in the real world when he's got all these colorful characters, he's got this colorful world, and it's cool to see, you know, a dark Batman as a contrast to that kind of craziness around him.
00:25:49
Speaker
So I think when they announced this, I thought it was great because they said, OK, so Matt Reeves is doing the more grounded, realistic Batman that people have come to expect in movies. And so let him do that. And he's doing that on his own. But this is going to lean into the fact that we can also have a Batman that's set in the DC universe. We can have a Batman who has sidekicks, who has allies in Gotham. And the fact that it's going to team him up with Damian Wayne is
00:26:19
Speaker
and very heavily influenced by Grant Morrison's Batman run. And Gunn described Damien as our favorite Robin, a little son of a bitch, an assassin and a murderer. And he said that it would explore a very strange sort of father and son story. I'm totally on board with all of this. How did you feel about Brave and the Bold?
00:26:41
Speaker
I'm actually I'm actually curious now because it's one of the things the one thing I kind of wish and I know they wouldn't do this but like I loved an early in Morrison's run where.
00:26:52
Speaker
Dick Grayson was Batman and he's basically mentoring Robin and Damien's all like, yeah, let's go kill them. And Dick is like, no, we don't do that. And Dick is also struggling with trying to be Batman because he's not Bruce Wayne. It'll be interesting to have Bruce Wayne as the father because most of the Batman Robin relationship
00:27:20
Speaker
have been portrayed. It's like, you've got the Adam West, you know, the Burt Ward kind of, yeah, he's the son for lack of a better word. You've had Chris O'Donnell who, okay, he played a character called Robin. We can agree on that. There is, if you want to be really kind of tangential about it,
00:27:45
Speaker
The the character that Joseph Gordon Levitt plays in the third Nolan film Nolan bat fan film. It's supposedly hinted that he Either is Robin or was called Robin There's that kind of subtle little in joke and then of course the ex-nighter You see the the Robin shirt with the graffiti ha ha the jokes on you, right? We've also had a brenden bretton fweights as
00:28:11
Speaker
Dick Grayson on the Titans to and we got to see after see we didn't see him in season one But starting in season two they brought in Bruce Wayne. So we got to see some of their dynamic, right? Yeah, so to be good to it'll be good to have like They kind of not not just having a father telling his son no Damien don't we don't kill people you know, but also dealing with father stuff where this is a kid who is
00:28:38
Speaker
didn't really know who his father was until recently, who was brought up by assassins, whose mother has a very, you know, depending on the author, you know, obviously, she is not with Bruce is not with Batman. It's, I'm curious, it's not, it's not where I would have gone with a Batman movie.
00:29:02
Speaker
But that's why I'm curious about it, because it's not the usual direction. Grant Morrison has enough of a love of the interesting little corners of the DCU that I think would really fit kind of gun sensibility. Absolutely, yeah. If you look at that Batman and Robin run that Morrison did, I think that's a perfect example of what seems to be the approach Gunn is taking.
00:29:29
Speaker
you know, he's gonna play with the weirdness stuff of it, he's gonna play with the colorful side of stuff, but it's still gonna have that, it's gonna be grounded in that characterization. And I think Morrison definitely nailed that in that series. And like you pointed out, like it wasn't actually Bruce under the cowl in that series, it was actually Dick. Most of the interactions with Bruce and Damien as Batman and Robin came afterwards in the,
00:29:56
Speaker
the Peter J. Tomasi run, which I've just started reading now, and they do some really interesting stuff with that relationship. So I just love the fact that we are going to, that they're embracing the fact that, well, we've got two Batman, so let's use this opportunity to explore them in different environments. We don't have to do solo Batman movie. We don't have to have two competing solo Batman series of movies. We can have the solo Batman movies that Reeve is doing, and then here we have the
00:30:27
Speaker
Batman team up movies, for lack of a better word. And I think calling it the brave and the bold is a very good move for that, too. Mm hmm.
Flexible DC Plans
00:30:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, too, it's it also provides, I think, for a little different differentiation, because if guns planning to have the whole like all the stuff that we were doing before is going to fall under else worlds. Mm hmm.
00:30:51
Speaker
It provides for a lot more continuity than like, okay, you've got the Batman 2 and Batman with Robin. Whereas you go Batman 2, Brave and the Bold. It's like consistency in, you know with the Brave and the Bold, Brave and the Bold 2, you'll have Batman in whoever. So I think there's, I like that he's actually thinking this stuff through and not just, oh, we're gonna do this movie, this movie, this movie.
00:31:18
Speaker
And it's not the usual suspects or even the usual approach. Right. In a way, it seems almost to that they're taking a note from what Marvel has been doing with the Spider-Man movies in the MCU because they went, we did five solo Spider-Man movies. So instead of just doing more solo Spider-Man movies, we're going to make kind of a mix of a solo Spider-Man movie and Marvel team up. So you have Spider-Man.
00:31:42
Speaker
Iron Man pops up or you have spider-man and then you've got Nick Fury running around then you've got You know, dr. Strange in in the the most recent one So they're they're playing around with the idea of how spider-man interacts with these different characters Mm-hmm. And it's also yeah, and it's also be good too because we don't know What kind of connective tissues there's gonna be because I know gun is committed to at least on the animated side having people who can do the voice as well as play it live-action, but we might see
00:32:12
Speaker
if down the road they're doing, let's say a Metal Man animated series in like year three, you have like the Magnus Institute assigned in like the Brave and the Bold. So I think there's enough, I think there's enough there to play with where it's not as maybe locked, it's not as lockstep as say Marvel has been for the past few years, but it's also kind of, and I think that the comforting thing is that
00:32:40
Speaker
The two comforting things to me are that one Gun has said this is what we're comfortable with announcing right now so that we know that that
00:32:50
Speaker
you know, there are other plans for chapter one, you know, what he calls chapter one. I'm also glad that they're not laying out their whole, they just said it's an eight to 10 year plan, but there, it sounds like there's room for like improvisation and moving things around. So it's not like,
Wonder Woman Prequel Series Skepticism
00:33:06
Speaker
okay, it's not like the Snyder version where they had to cancel several movies because Batman V Superman was just
00:33:14
Speaker
was just what it was. I think Brave and Bold is real. It's one that I'm curious about, but I like the approach. Depending on how they go with it, if they're going to have a different
00:33:33
Speaker
team up in each iteration of it. So if like, you know, this first one is going to be with Batman and Damian, Wayne is Robin, maybe the next one, we could see like a Batman Superman story or something where we can actually see them working together. And I would love to see how Gunn approaches that relationship as opposed to because I think the laziest idea in, in fandom is Batman and Superman hate each other.
00:33:56
Speaker
So, and I like it more when it's a much more complex respect. They respect each other, even though they disagree on almost everything. And I think that's a lot more interesting. So yeah, it'll be cool to see, and it gives you a chance to explore these relationships that Batman has with these characters in a deeper way than you'd get a chance to really in like a Justice League movie or something like that. Batman becomes a character, he's not just Batman. Right, exactly, yeah. Okay.
00:34:25
Speaker
The next one here on the list is Paradise Lost, which is a Wonder Woman prequel series for HBO Max. And this is going to be exploring the Amazons of Themyscira before the birth of Diana. And Saffron said it's going to be like a Game of Thrones-ish story. And it's going to expand on political intrigue behind a society of all women. And Gunn said,
00:34:53
Speaker
How did that come about? The idea of the origin of Themyscira. What's the origin of an island of all women? What are all the beautiful truths and the ugly truths behind all of that? And what's the scheming like between different power players in that society? Now, I'm not the biggest Wonder Woman fan. I don't think I even own any. I've read Wonder Woman Earth One, the Grant Morrison one. Didn't really care for it too much. It's like probably the one Grant Morrison thing I've read that I didn't really like that much.
00:35:23
Speaker
And I haven't really read any of her other stuff. So, you know, I'm meaning to maybe eventually get around to it. Maybe after I chip away at the massive TBR pile I currently have. And the fact of if we're talking about Themyscira without Wonder Woman, it just as a on paper, the concept doesn't really seem appealing to me a whole lot. What did you think about this? I can see doing a kind of something said on Themyscira.
00:35:52
Speaker
Like a fantasy, high fantasy series. And I've read Wonder Woman off and on, so it's like, I think there are different approaches you can take with her. I think though, a Game of Thrones style series, I'll be honest, I saw the first, when I watched the first episode or two of Game of Thrones,
00:36:17
Speaker
I realized I liked it better when it was produced by the BBC in the mid 1970s, Starjerk, Derek Jacobi, and was called I Claudius. You know, that kind of political intrigue back to me. It's one where I'd have to really, it's not something that grabs my interest. I'd probably watch the pilot just to check it out, but I don't think it's a bad idea. I just don't,
Booster Gold Series Potential
00:36:43
Speaker
I don't, I don't, the two don't match for me.
00:36:46
Speaker
It just doesn't it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I could very well be proven wrong, like with with Peacemaker. I thought that was not something I would be into and I ended up loving it. So so we'll see what happens. But on paper right now, that's probably the one I'm least interested in. But I'm on to the next one. That's probably the one I'm also not as invested in is Booster Gold, an HBO Max series. So, you know, Booster Gold.
00:37:16
Speaker
people who don't know, time-traveling hero, and Safran described it as a loser from the future who uses basic future technology to come back to today and pretend to be a superhero. And Gunn then added that he has imposter syndrome as a superhero. And they're gonna be leaning into the comedy aspects of it. And I'll just be honest right here, I've never been a big fan of Booster Gold. Whenever he's popped up in
00:37:42
Speaker
I've never read his solo titles. Whenever he's popped up in other titles, I just kind of like, you know, grunted my way through it, just because the characters never really appealed to me. What do you stand on Booster Gold? I think the only time Booster Gold for me really worked was in 52, the series, 52, that 52-week series that came right after, I think, Final Crisis. Infinite Crisis. Infinite Crisis.
00:38:11
Speaker
There have been so many crises. It's understandable. Yeah, yeah. Where he took on a new identity because he was trying to at least validate himself because he kind of felt like, okay, I've been the goofball for so long. Now I need to be a hero. I could see a show like this working if it's like a half hour comedy.
00:38:32
Speaker
where it's not like it's not like it's not like peacemaker done for laughs but like a nice short little concise I'm not a big burst to go fan because I think I think that the whole concept of the goofball hero
00:38:49
Speaker
has been overdone and overdone for so long, it doesn't feel as fresh. So I think doing a nice compact little like half hour comedy over a series of weeks, I think that's probably the best you can do with them. It's not something I'm going to be watching every week, but it's something that I'd like to see what they do. Yeah. Now, even though I'm not the booster gold, the biggest fan of booster gold in the comics,
00:39:12
Speaker
And I haven't really cared much for him when he's popped up in different things, you know, didn't care for him when he popped up in Smallville. I know he appeared in Legend of Tomorrow, played by Donald Faison. I haven't seen that yet, but I'm curious about that because I love Donald Faison. But one of the things I will say is if there is anyone that I think could get me interested in Booster Gold, it would be James Gunn, because this does seem
00:39:39
Speaker
like the kind of thing that's totally in his wheelhouse, right? You've got this, you know, C-list hero who is, you know, not so serious. He's, you know, he's got a lot of issues. He's, you know, it's played for laughs a lot. I could definitely see Gunn doing something interesting with that. So, like, I probably won't be checking out any booster gold comics anytime soon, but I could see myself liking this show when it comes out.
00:40:09
Speaker
Well, I have seen Donald Faison as Booster Gold on Legends of Tomorrow. He's actually one of the highlights of that kind of final ending season. And if James Gunn is listening to this, hire him for your show.
00:40:26
Speaker
Because I think he did a really good job at really highlighting the goofiness of the character. I think Gunn really likes taking obscure characters and going, okay, what can I find in this that can give them a little bit of a kick? What can I do that
00:40:51
Speaker
gives us character
Interconnected DC Universe
00:40:52
Speaker
resonance. I mean, again, neither one of us would have thought, oh, Peacemaker is going to be a really interesting character to talk about toxic masculinity and dysfunctional households and, and, you know, kind of clandestine government missions. You know, we, we, you know, we wouldn't say we wouldn't be talking about it. We probably talking about like, um,
00:41:17
Speaker
Okay. A checkmate series or something that's a little bit more well-known. So, but yeah, I think I like booster gold. I'm curious. I'm probably not a big fan either, but I at least check it out. Yeah.
00:41:33
Speaker
Next one, we have Creature Commandos, which is going to be an animated series, to start off at least. And in the comics, they took a bunch of classic monsters, like Frankenstein's monster. They had a werewolf character, a vampire, and a gorgon. And they were fighting Nazis in World War II. But this is going to be a modern take. And Gunn's going to be writing every episode. He's actually finished writing every episode so far. There's seven of them. So it's already in production.
00:42:02
Speaker
And he says that shows like this are gonna allow them to tell stories that are gigantic, but without spending $50 million an episode. And there hasn't been anyone announced for the voices yet, but they are looking for actors who can do both the voices in the animated series and then also play these characters in live action, which is an interesting idea. And now I've never read anything with the creature commandos in the comics,
00:42:30
Speaker
But I do love the idea of monsters fighting Nazis. So maybe we can get a modern take on that aspect of it. Well, I actually have read the Creature Commandos because they started in the 80s with weird war tales. And it was basically the universal monsters with a human guy fighting Nazis in World War II. Tim Truman revived them in the 2000s and they were
00:42:56
Speaker
They introduced like a creature from the Black Lagoon guy and a mummy. And then they were actually part of the new 52 for a while. But it's kind of a blink and you miss them moment. Was that a good series? Was that worth the read? The World War Tale stuff, yeah. Because it's just, you know, but again, I was reading this stuff when I was 12. So, you know, monsters, Nazis, makes sense. The Truman series, I remember reading and liking, but
00:43:25
Speaker
Think it was I I don't I don't wouldn't say it was like a classic I think it was just kind of and I didn't really catch the new 52 Creature commandos. I think it's just one of those it's I I love the fact that that gun is leading off with this because it's gloriously goofy I'm assuming it's a modern take. Yeah, rather than a World War two take but and I think it's I think it's just one of those that
00:43:54
Speaker
Like it's more nostalgia than it is like an actual, I think this material is valid. I really want to...
00:44:04
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to this, but again, it's the 12-year-old in me. It's not the grown-up adult comics fan in me. So there's a lot of bias there. I think just like with Booster Gold, this is something that I'm more interested in because Gunn's heavily involved with it. Again, this is something that seems right within his wheelhouse. You've got this misfit crew of heroes and all that. And so I could definitely see him doing something that's a lot of fun with this.
00:44:30
Speaker
And I could also see him doing it in a way that's very tongue in cheek, too. And it includes GI Robot. Oh, which was another basically World War Tales in like the early 80s was basically two stories, GI Robot and Creature Commandos. I mean, it basically it was the robot was named Jake, which stands for
00:44:56
Speaker
J-something, A-something, K-something, E-something. But he was kind of like Johnny Sacco's flying robot, but man-sized so that he could shoot rockets out of his fingers. He had like a human, like a younger soldier as like a companion. He went on missions. I mean, again, you just gotta, I mean, it's just, at the very least, this is gonna be a fun show.
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah. It may not be serious the way the other stuff might be, but it's gonna be fun and goofy. Now, this also brings up another point that Gunn made, is that he said that all of the stuff that's coming out, so the animated series, the video games, the TV shows, and the movies, they're all gonna be linked together.
00:45:41
Speaker
I've heard this before. And we've seen different aspects of this where they're like, oh yeah, this video game is a sequel to the movie. And then until the next movie comes out, and then they're like, yeah, we're not going to bother with that anymore. And so I am curious if they're actually going to be able to pull that side of it off. And the other thing to consider are the DC animated movies.
00:46:06
Speaker
Like, are those going to fall into the Elseworlds kind of? Is that going to be its own separate thing? Or are they going to think, OK, well, if we do? Because I know for a while the animated movies had kind of that 52 house style for a while in terms of character design. I wonder if
Amanda Waller Series
00:46:26
Speaker
that's going to I can't see them being like super picky in terms of plot point A, plot point B.
00:46:35
Speaker
I'm curious as to how they do that, but I'm also thinking with the animated stuff, they may just put it in the style of like whoever super, however Superman looks in the movie, that's going to be their Superman. And if they, you know, if the actor is willing to do the voice, the voiceover and that's where it gets a little kind of, I think a little wonky for me because it's, um,
00:46:59
Speaker
Like with the Marvel stuff. I know they had to hire, they hired somebody else to do the voices of, I think, although they got most of the actors, like with Tony Stark, they had to hire somebody else to do the voice because Robert Downey Jr. wasn't available.
00:47:16
Speaker
So I'm wondering how workable that's going to be. I'm just hoping this is more of a case of, like, OK, there's a line in Creature Commandos about the Kerrigan run. And then the video game is Creature Commandos, Kerrigan run. You know what I mean? It's that kind of linkage where it's not like plot A, plot B equals, you know, it's not like, you know, you have to play the video game and watch this movie in order to get
00:47:45
Speaker
this reference yeah see that'll be interesting to see how they pull that off um
00:47:50
Speaker
Next one we have is Waller, which is a TV series focused on Amanda Waller. And Peacemaker season two is going to be put on hold, and Waller's gonna be like a continuation of that. So the Peacemaker supporting characters, they'll also appear in this. Viola Davis is coming back as well. And this picks up after the end of season one, when Leota revealed the existence of Task Force X to the world. And this is gonna be dealing with the ramifications.
00:48:20
Speaker
Um, and they're bringing in Jeremy Carver, who's the showrunner of Doom Patrol as, um, the executive producer and, uh, also, uh, Christelle Henry, who wrote the Watchmen TV show. Uh, she's going to be involved in it as well as a writer. And I mean,
00:48:40
Speaker
I think, I mean, Viola Davis casting as Amanda Waller was just perfect casting. And I loved, even, you know, she was the best thing about the David Ayer Suicide Squad movie. I loved her in the Suicide Squad. I loved the brief appearances we got of her in Peacemaker. And I've already talked up Peacemaker a lot. So obviously I'm all on board for that. So I think this is, I'm really looking forward to this.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking forward to, because I think she's the place she was left with at the end of that. And I like the fact that it's going to be, I can see this being a very adult take on how espionage works. It'll probably do what Checkmate did in the 90s, 2000s for the espionage side of the DC universe.
00:49:35
Speaker
Um, I think it's nice that that they're actually bringing in um, like doom patrol I thought was you know, i'm i'm sorry it had to go because I like doom patrol I think bring in jeremy carver as yeah, I mean it's I think he's looking at it I think that approach the way they approached both the morris and run but through in lots of body horror I think there's a little potential genre mixing here
00:50:02
Speaker
And I know that with Watchman, I know Lindelof has said that basically the way he handled the writing was he kind of let his writers write and he
00:50:12
Speaker
You know, he had a very hands off approach because obviously it's very much centered on people of characters of color. And as a white dude, Lindelof kind of felt certain things where he couldn't go. So it'll be nice to bring that kind of creativity with the Watchmen series, which I'm kind of glad it's only a done in one because I don't know how you would do a series two after that.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah.
Green Lantern as True Detective
00:50:36
Speaker
Yeah. We had talked about that before Derek's passing. We had, we had done a three episode series covering the Washington TV show and we had come to the same conclusion. Like, you know, it was kind of a bittersweet ending because in the one hand it was so good that we wanted to see more, but on the other hand, it's probably for the best that we didn't see more. Yeah. And you really, you know, you can't be like,
00:50:58
Speaker
you know, not every writer is Jeff Johns, where you can, you can, you know, spin out material to the the point of absurdity. But I do think it'll be interesting to see because I think
00:51:11
Speaker
I think Gunn is also going for genre distinctions as well, like comedy, kind of political intrigue. I'm assuming Supergirl might be a little science fictiony because of, she comes from, she lived on a rock. And so I think he's approaching it. It's kind of when you look at the MCU, you've got, well, with Phase Four specifically,
00:51:39
Speaker
Multiverse of Madness was horror. PG horror but very surreal horror. Moon Knight was psychological drama. Falcon and Winter Soldier was politics. Spider-Man No Way Home was kind of goofy multiversal action that you could do these kind of genre pieces that are part of the big hall. I don't think guns approaching it
00:52:06
Speaker
I don't think he's approaching it the way that Marvel's approached it where everything kind of fits together. I think it sounds like it's a loose outline and that it sounds like, at least to me, he's giving himself the room so that whatever chapter two, chapter three, you're going to look at, it's like, what's going to be workable versus what I think Emperor
00:52:28
Speaker
the initial Snyder run, which is OK. We've got movies we're going to do. We're going to put them in specific slots. And I know that Gunn, when he made his announcement, kind of rushed through the first movies that were the stuff that's already scheduled to be released. So, you know, it's interesting how it's he didn't really talk them up and one he just kind of glossed over. But it's it's kind of interesting. He's like, yeah, yeah, we've got these things. We're looking forward to them. But
00:53:16
Speaker
They had explained that Greg's vision was more of a space opera, our vision is much more true detective, terrestrial based investigation story. And it's going to feature Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart investigating a mystery that's expected to play a big role in the main story of DCU's chapter one.
00:53:22
Speaker
This is where we're going from here.
00:53:37
Speaker
I'm not the biggest Green Lantern fan, but I'm curious about this because my initial instinct is if you're going to be doing Green Lantern, you would want to lean in more to the sci-fi space opera aspects of it, as opposed to the more space cop aspects of it. What did you think about this one? Well, here's my thinking is that when they cited True Detective, have you seen the first series of True Detective?
00:54:07
Speaker
Yeah. So it goes from being very grounded, and then it turns out all the way into cosmic horror. And they even take stuff from the King in Yellow, which is a 19th century public domain set of stories about Carcosa and all that. So I can see that approach, where it starts grounded
00:54:33
Speaker
terrestrial and part of it's also budget. Like, you know, I think Gunn has to look at it to him. The only thing I hope Gunn doesn't do is I suspect he might hire Dick Wolf to produce it because then every scene it's like, beware of my power green lanterns light and you hear the law and order.
00:54:55
Speaker
between scenes, you know, and there's like the text, you know, planet OA, 1235. So
Horror Film with Swamp Thing
00:55:01
Speaker
but I can see it working because I think
00:55:05
Speaker
I think DC kind of looked at, okay, well, we did the space thing with that Ryan Reynolds movie. Maybe we shouldn't do that again. So I could see them taking that kind of shifting approach, but it's, um, I'm curious too, especially since I really liked, it's the only season of True Detective I've watched, but I really liked that, that kind of concept of moving from one kind of genre to another. And it, it, it's very seamless.
00:55:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, it's not the take I would have, but it's not something like Paradise Lost where I'm just completely uninterested, but it's one where I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I definitely would have to see more of it.
00:55:50
Speaker
But going to what you said too about genre, that actually brings us to the next one, which is Swamp Thing. And it describes a horror film that will mark the end of DCU's chapter one. And it's set to investigate the dark origins of the monster through the perspective of horror. Gunn said the mashup quality of seeing Rocket Raccoon standing next to Thor in Avengers Infinity War wound up being one of the highlights of the MCU. And he says that they're trying to one up that approach with Swamp Thing.
00:56:18
Speaker
you know, potentially indicating crossovers in the future. He says, so this will be a much more horrific film, but we'll still have Swamp Thing interact with the other characters. Now, I thought the DC Universe Swamp Thing, which then ended up, I thought it was a great show. And I thought I was, we kind of got robbed of the fact that it got canceled before it even finished airing. And even Downgraded, where they cut out some of the last few episodes that they were supposed to do.
00:56:47
Speaker
And you know, the Alan Moore run is obviously classic. So I'm really interested to see what they do with the Swamp Thing. Yeah, especially since Swamp Thing has been, you know, he's not been the best treated character in media, not just the DCU, but you've got the the two 80s movies, then you've got there's a there's a syndicated series, I think in the 90s. Yeah, if I'm not mistaken. So I think
00:57:14
Speaker
taking it from the guy in the suit doing scary things to that horror aspect. And I think that because they're pulling a lot from the Alan Moore run, or he really leaned into that, is I'm hoping they take more of a tone in style rather than actual plot. Because some of the things that Moore did, even at the time, were a little pushing the, you know, they pushed the envelope a little bit.
00:57:43
Speaker
But I do think I'm really curious. This is one that, yeah, I'd want to see because I think it'd be good to see the character done right and done in a really in the right environment. Did you see the DC Universe show? No, I didn't. I've seen clips, but I haven't really watched it. It's worth a watch. I mean, it it does have that it does have that little sogginess feeling when they get in the middle of the season. But overall, it's it's very good.
00:58:13
Speaker
And the Wes Craven movie, we reviewed that way early on, and that was, it has its charms, but yeah, it doesn't, you definitely, I definitely would not call it a horror movie per se. So I do like that they're leaning more into the horror aspect. And since he says that Swamp Thing will interact with other characters, I imagine we could also see John Constantine come out up in here, just like he appeared in the original Swamp Thing comics. So that could be a way to introduce him into this new universe.
00:58:44
Speaker
And that brings
The Authority Film and Moral Complexity
00:58:45
Speaker
us to the last movie that was announced as part of the DCU. And then we'll talk about some of the Elseworld stuff, but that's The Authority. So The Authority, not originally part of DC, it's actually originally part of Wild Storm, kind of a spin off after Ellis took over the Stormwatch series, kind of reinvigorated it and then ended it and replaced it with The Authority. And
00:59:11
Speaker
Safford described the authority as kind of like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men saying that they know you want them on the wall or at least they believe that. And so, you know, it's these this team of superheroes who use extreme methods to protect the planet and, you know, and
00:59:27
Speaker
If you've ever read the comic books, you know, the Warren Ellis run was just absolutely great. The Mark Miller stuff, less so. Ed Brubaker also did a run-out that was pretty good too. And Grant Morrison actually recently did Superman and the Authority, where he had Superman forming a new version of the Authority, which included like Apollo and Midnighter, but also some other characters mixed in there.
00:59:53
Speaker
This was, uh, I was really curious to, I was really surprised to see this one here. I was not expecting to ever see a movie based on the authority, at least not in live action. Uh, what did you think of this announcement? Um, well, I've, I've read, um, I read a lot of Ellis has run the authority and, um, although I liked it, I don't know.
01:00:18
Speaker
It seems like the one very extreme outlier for this, because I'm not sure where this falls in Guns Wheelhouse. I mean, if it had been published by, if I'm not sure it's part of Wild Storm, I would much rather have a planetary movie, which is another of Ellis' series. That was also Wild Storm. Wild Storm, but I don't think it was ever published. I don't know if it was carried over and published by DC the way authority did. Oh, no, no. It ended with Ellis, yeah.
01:00:48
Speaker
Right. Because I think planetary, had it been part of that kind of DC carryover, would have been good to have a team basically investigating the history of the DC universe, where the series was about pulp and other kind of archetypical action stuff. This would have been a really great way. But the authority, I'm kind of a little
01:01:19
Speaker
I'm not sure how a team that believes they can change the world and they should rule by force would fit in the modern, especially since we now have shows like The Boys and to some extent the Watchmen HBO series. I'm not quite sure how it would fit, so this is one where I'm like,
01:01:39
Speaker
I'll wait until it's out on DVD, or I'll wait until it's out on streaming to see it. One of the things that I think that it could really fit is because, and this isn't something you had with the authority when they were being published by WildStorm, because all the heroes in that universe, by the time the authority was published, most of the other heroes, WildStorm wasn't really publishing a whole lot else, so there was that aspect to be considered.
01:02:04
Speaker
But there wasn't really any challenges, not any real challenges from other superheroes who are much more old fashioned type of superheroes. So I think where the authority gets interesting is in showing, seeing a contrast with characters like Superman and Batman. And how does someone like Superman deal with something like the authority? And this could also,
01:02:29
Speaker
maybe be a lead into something like an adaptation of one of my favorite Superman stories, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way, where Superman encounters a DC version of the authority called the Elite, and has to deal with this idea that maybe his methods are too outdated, don't fit in with the modern world. And that contrast between the two approaches, I think that could be something interesting to explore.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yeah, I could see I could see something like that but trying to do it from the authority perspective I mean it would be a challenge because essentially the authority would have to either a have to lose or be Superman would have to lose and I'd be interested to see the story of how that would play out even though I'm not sure if it would play out well But yeah, but I'm not really I'm not really an authority guys, so I'm not sure whether that would be yeah
01:03:26
Speaker
Okay, fair enough.
Elseworlds Stories and Continuity
01:03:28
Speaker
And then that leads into the Elseworld stuff, which so far we have three projects confirmed for this. There's the Batman part two. There's also the Joker sequel, which... What was that called again? Foliadoo, which is going to introduce Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn.
01:03:49
Speaker
I think it's supposed to be more of a musical is what they had said too. And then Ta-Nehisi Coates' Superman film, which actually I was watching Chris Hayes, I think it was yesterday and Ta-Nehisi Coates was on there and Hayes had asked him, what are you working on now? And Coates said, oh, I'm working on Superman, but there's not really much else I can say.
01:04:09
Speaker
So it'd be interesting to see how they do this now because the coach Superman film is always, I've always been interested in. And one of the interesting things about it is they've never necessarily confirmed that he's gonna be writing, it's gonna be a black Superman, but it's not necessarily going to be Clark Kent. I don't think they've ever said it's going to be a black version of Clark Kent. That could be Val Zod from James Robinson's Earth II run or could be
01:04:40
Speaker
was named Calvin Ellis from Morrison's Multiversity, where he was not only a black Superman, but also a black president.
01:04:52
Speaker
So I think this is, I'm still interested in, but what I like the most here is the idea that they are keeping this Elseworld's options. They're still gonna be able to do stuff that's not connected to the continuity. And I think that's one of the things that I wish Marvel would do a little bit too, because it'd be nice to see some projects that aren't necessarily tied into the MCU, but they haven't really pursued that at all.
01:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's, I'm not really, I haven't seen the original, the Matt Reeves Batman. So, I haven't seen it yet. So, Batman II, I don't really have an opinion on it. I saw Joker and I thought it was the best Martin Scorsese fan film ever made. You know, I think, so, I'm not too keen on a Joker II. Like, I kind of,
01:05:49
Speaker
I know it kind of feels like the movie was made to prove, because Todd Phillips, and he made a big deal about, oh, nobody goes to see my comedies. I want to do serious films. And it's like, well, dude, maybe you're just not funny. And Joker just kind of left me cold, so I'm not really looking forward to Joker 2. But the Coates Superman movie, yeah, I'm very interested in it. Because I'm always, I like,
01:06:18
Speaker
I really want to see different variations on the typical superhero story, which you didn't quite get, which you didn't get with the Snyder realms at all. Yeah. Well, another thing too is, and this is where things start to get a little bit confusing because at first it seemed like Gunn's intent was a clean reboot.
01:06:42
Speaker
And that's one of the reasons why he wanted to recast Superman and all this other kind of stuff, and why he said that we might have Jason Momoa play someone else besides Aquaman, which opens up speculation for Lobo, obviously. But now
Balancing Reboots and New Narratives
01:07:00
Speaker
we know that Waller is going to be continuing from Peacemaker, which is continuing from the Suicide Squad. And then we also have
01:07:11
Speaker
The Flash movie is still coming out and we still get Aquaman's still coming out. Shazam Fury the Gods is still coming out. And so it leaves this question of how much of a reboot is this really? What were some thoughts of yours on that?
01:07:30
Speaker
Well, I think just based on Gunn's comments, I think Shazam is going to be its own thing. And I think, you know, I could see them once they have the Elseworlds branding, everything else is kind of going to be
01:07:45
Speaker
Those I think will probably end up branded as else worlds. So I think with Shazam's I think Shazam fury of the gods It's probably going to be in its own little weird little corner It's not going to be part of continuity but it's not not going to be part of continuity it's I think it would be like a kind of a don't ask don't tell situation It's like don't bother asking if you want it to be that's fine
01:08:11
Speaker
I think The Flash, they've always intended it to be a reboot movie, and there are all sorts of issues with Ezra Miller that we can go into in a little bit. I think with Aquaman 2, I'm wondering, because I know there's been talk that I think Keaton was revised by Ben Affleck, I wonder if they're going to use that as a way to kind of close the door on the Snyderverse once and for all.
01:08:38
Speaker
that that might be, it might be that kind of, that that way would allow, if Momoa was contracted for like two Aquaman films and that's it, that releases him from his contract to do other things. It allows Affleck to be a director on some projects so that it's less a universe thing and more just like kind of clearing the slate.
01:09:02
Speaker
I'm trying to think, is there another film besides? And then there's Blue Beetle, which they made because that's being put together. Yeah, they'll probably figure out a way to fit that in with their their universe, with the the main DC. I believe they'd said that Blue Beetle is, even though Superman legacy is considered the quote unquote start, Blue Beetle will kind of be like the unofficial start of it is what they had said or something like that. Right. So yeah, it looks like they're going to be folding Blue Beetle into it.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah, and then I know with the Flash movie, I know that's always intended to be a reboot movie. It's just a matter of what it's going to reboot. So that's probably the one kind of, it's the elephant in the room, so to speak. Yeah, and we can talk about, I definitely wanna get to the Flash in a minute, but I first wanted to mention about just the idea of how much of a reboot is this.
01:10:01
Speaker
And there've been a, I've seen some people talking about this saying that, you know, well, if you're gonna reboot it, just reboot the whole thing. Don't just keep your stuff around. And I mean, on the one hand, I get that. On the other hand, it kind of seems like it's fitting for a DC continuity to be, a DC reboot to be as fucked up as it is in the comics, because they always seem to be doing that, right? I mean, Crisis was supposedly a reboot, but then they're like, oh, but we're still gonna keep some stuff.
01:10:29
Speaker
Uh, new infinite crisis was supposedly bringing back the multiverse, but it was also mixing in all this other stuff. And then. Then we had flashpoint, the new 52, which was a reboot, but it was keeping some things and then rebirth, which again was a reboot, but not quite. And then they had had doomsday clock was another like reboot, but not quite. So it, I mean, part of me thinks it wouldn't really be a DC situation unless the continuity was a little fucked up. Yeah. And I think.
01:10:59
Speaker
One of the lessons of the MCU is trying to, is that sometimes trying to keep an ironclad eye on continuity isn't always a good thing. Like, you know, WandaVision, like the idea was you didn't need to watch one thing, a TV show to understand the movie. And it's like, I saw WandaVision and I saw, um,
01:11:26
Speaker
multiverse of madness at separate times, and it felt like multiverse of madness was, there was never like a clear like, yes, this is what happened to her back there. It just felt like you needed that backstory in order to know what was going on in the movie. I think with DC, you need a messed up continuity. Like I could see a gratuitous, you know, in the middle of Superman legacy,
01:11:51
Speaker
Three teenagers come in and they're like, Hey, join us in the future to fight crime. Oh, wait, we're here too soon. Nevermind. One of the smart things that Peacemaker did and was it kind of served as and then the Suicide Squad in general, it kind of seemed like it was a soft reboot in a way because you had some elements that were tied into the first movie.
01:12:14
Speaker
But you didn't need to watch the first movie to understand the Suicide Squad. And then in Peacemaker, they were making a lot of other references to stuff that could not have happened in the Snyderverse, right? You know, Peacemaker talks about teaming up with Mater Eater Lad. You know, they referenced all these characters that hadn't popped up in the movies at all. And I don't think, I don't know where you slot those in anywhere in the Snyderverse.
01:12:39
Speaker
blood sport mentioning that he put Superman in the ER and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think it did kind of serve as like a soft reboot and now they're just continuing with that. So I think it does make sense to include the Suicide Squad and Peacemaker and Waller all in the same universe. And also feels good too, because you're not starting from, the Snyder approach is you start big and operatic and
01:13:07
Speaker
you know, mythological to use one of his favorite buzzwords. With Gunn, you start small and personal and expand out. And I think that's the approach that the DCU needed. The MCU had started, you know, before 2008, if we were asked, hey, you want to go see an Iron Man movie with Robert Downey Jr., we'd both be like, yeah, sure, OK, pull the other one. Really. You know, Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man? Yeah.
01:13:37
Speaker
That's going to be a real success. Look what happened. And I think Gunness is learning the lesson of you start small and personal and build out.
01:13:47
Speaker
absolutely yeah and I think it and I like the idea that they're they're not necessarily starting off from the beginning of it I do like the idea because I think a lot of the DC heroes I think do work better if they've got some history behind them even if we don't necessarily know what that history is you know we don't need to see
01:14:08
Speaker
Superman's rocket falling in Smallville and him being raised by the Kents for the the 50 hundredth time. We don't need to see the Wayne shot like we've been seeing like every goddamn year. And and it allows you to do things like by having them have those some sort of established history already. It allows you to do things like bring in Supergirl, bring in Robin, bring in Damian Wayne and all that other kind of stuff. And
01:14:35
Speaker
And I think that approach works a lot better, whereas Marvel, a lot of the characters aren't familiar to audiences, so you have to bring them in to begin with. Yeah. And I think, too, with DC, there are more points of entry than you would believe, because it's not like in the MCU, everyone's in New York. Every superhero is in New York. Whereas DC has more of an imaginary geography, so you could say, OK,
01:15:05
Speaker
Smallvilles in Kansas and Metropolis is wherever Metropolis is. So you can do different kind of set pieces depending on your hero. So then the other thing too is to talk about Ezra Miller as the Flash. Now, this is one of the things that annoyed me about the announcement because they're like, well, we can't do this Superman movie with Henry Cavill, but maybe we could have Ezra Miller come back in the future as the Flash.
01:15:35
Speaker
My hope is that what really is going on is that Zazlov told him, look, we've invested so much money in this flash movie, we need it to at least try to make back some of the money we've invested in it. So just don't talk shit about Ezra Miller, just say that he's doing his recovery and you hope it works out well for him and just leave it at that. Because honestly, even if Ezra Miller wasn't a violent sociopath,
01:16:04
Speaker
they were still a terrible casting decision for The Flash to begin with. And so I can't see any world in which you take, you look at Henry Cavill, who was like the nicest guy on the planet and say like, eh, we don't want him, but you're going to keep the violent sociopath because apparently he was in one good superhero movie. It would be one thing if it were a case of like,
01:16:28
Speaker
If the if the worst thing Ezra Miller did was say get a little drunk at a karaoke bar and was a little too loud I You know, but the fact is Miller had a history of
01:16:44
Speaker
I mean, you just need to Google to see all the stuff that they've been involved with. Kidnapping. Very abusive behavior. Breaking and entering.
01:17:00
Speaker
grooming and the others there's there's a lot where it makes sense that you can't really there's been so much time money tied into the flash movie I personally think the flash movie I I think it's probably going to
01:17:19
Speaker
I think it will probably not do very well, because there's just so much of a stink attached to it. And I do think that with Henry Cavill deserves another shot, because at least he tried to bring something. He just didn't have the right script. And I think he deserves a break. I think with Ezra Miller, he was
01:17:46
Speaker
he was probably the absolute worst thing about, in my opinion, about in the entire, whether it's the Joss League or the Zack Snyder's Justice League. To me, he was the weakest link, because there really wasn't, he was just, oh hey look, I'm quirky. Part of me kind of hopes, and I know this is not gonna happen, but that at the end of the Flash movie, it's like,
01:18:16
Speaker
You see him stop before he goes to run. He removes his mask and it's a different actor so that we know, okay, this is not the guy we're going to follow into the DCU. And I'm hoping that if it is a reboot, that it's kind of a, it's a very clear, you know, this is where we're going from moving forward. Because at least like with all the other actors, like,
01:18:44
Speaker
Ray Fisher put in an honest effort. Sorry, but Ben Affleck, no. We don't need Pouty Batman. Cavill tried to do a halfway decent job. Gal Gadot did a pretty decent job. Jason Momoa did a pretty decent job. But yeah, I think there's just too much of a stink behind him.
01:19:04
Speaker
and he shouldn't sue much. And I think it would be like, you know, like a couple of weeks ago, Bill Cosby announced he was going back on tour. It's like, no, it's not going to be met with with with cheers. So I
Alternate Stories: Cavill and Affleck
01:19:20
Speaker
do think I do think the film is going to sink. But I think if Zazlov, remember the guy who brought us Honey Boo Boo,
01:19:30
Speaker
If he sees that as a loss, he'll think, okay, that just proves that that approach was wrong and gonna be moving ahead full steam. So at least he'll know that, okay, maybe spending all this money isn't the smartest thing. And even Gunn said, well, basically he said, I don't think this is a correct quote, but he said, okay, we'll support the filmmakers' visions to a point.
01:19:57
Speaker
But he also made it clear, we're not making anything until the script's done. And I think those are really key, because the fact that the Flash took so many reshoots, and there were so many scripting and editing problems, that it's kind of like, no, we've got to be, unlike Kevin Feige, Gunn is a creative.
01:20:22
Speaker
And unlike Kevin Feige, although Kevin Feige has the business and production experience, what Gunn is, he's got someone who has that experience. So it'll be interesting to see how the DCU progresses from this point onward. Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of that.
01:20:40
Speaker
We can quibble about Ben Affleck's Batman. I think he did as well a job as anyone could, given what, with the material he was given. And I think he would have made a really great Batman if he got a chance to do his own Batman movie. Like he had originally hoped to do, but then, you know, just the weight of expectations and him having to deal with it. It was too much for him. And I totally get that. I was about to say you brought up a kingdom come movie. You put Hemi Cavill as an older Batman. Affleck as the, Cavill as an older Superman.
01:21:10
Speaker
Ben Affleck is an older Batman. Throwing Gallaudet as Wonder Woman, because Wonder Woman doesn't really age. There's your Kingdom Come kit. And hey, if you want to make that a Zack Snyder film, because I think it would fit with his style. I'm probably going to get attacked for saying that out loud, but I'd like to at least see a Kingdom Come movie, if not necessarily a Kingdom Come movie, directed by Zack Snyder. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think that would be a great idea.
01:21:40
Speaker
Another thing too they mentioned is I think another part of it too is I think more than anyone, Cavill and Affleck are associated with the Snyderverse because they're the ones who started off. They were
Optimism for Superman and Lois
01:21:53
Speaker
the ones who were in in all those Snyderverse movies, basically, with the exception of Affleck, he wasn't in
01:22:01
Speaker
in Superman but in Man of Steel. But they were kind of like the anchors of the Snyderverse. And they never really got an opportunity to break out of that. Whereas Momoa got Aquaman, he got a chance to break out of that role. Godot got Wonder Woman, she got a chance to break out of that mold as well. So I think that's another big part of it is more than anyone else, those two are most associated with the Snyderverse. And so not having them really shows, really signals that this is a different,
01:22:30
Speaker
Right, right. That it's not, it's something completely new. I will say too, one of the things I was nervous about, especially because, you know, we had the announcements that Titans is getting canceled after this season, Doom Patrol is getting canceled after this season. And it had me wondering, what's going to happen to Superman and Lois? Because it's getting a season three, but after that, we don't know. But, and
01:22:54
Speaker
And part of it might be out of DC's hands because some of it will depend on what's going on with the CW. But I was really heartened when Gunn said, look, people seem to like Superman and Lois. It seems to have like another two seasons in the tank or so. So we're just going to let it run its course.
01:23:10
Speaker
that made me really happy. What I think would be nice is maybe we get two more seasons of Superman and Lois and then by the time that ends, then it'd be like 2025 and it'd be time to introduce this new Superman movie. So that'd be a really interesting way to do it. Yeah,
Fan Backlash and Misunderstandings
01:23:30
Speaker
and I think as much as a lot of good shows are getting canceled, I appreciate that at least Gunn's willing to let certain
01:23:40
Speaker
let Superman and Lois and other kind of entities kind of play out. I mean, it is a shame that the Batgirl movie got scrapped, but really, there's nothing that Gunn can do because not only was it made before he came on board, but one of the conditions of, the reason it was canceled was that the actual tax loophole is that when you purchase a company,
01:24:08
Speaker
Basically, if one company purchases another company if there's anything that they determine is like not viable And that they can't basically make money off of that becomes a write-off as a business loss and so essentially as love was looking for ways to cut corners and You know, the fact is they spent all this money on a flash movie with all the
01:24:39
Speaker
with all the requisite kind of drama. I can understand, and I think that would have been the one you write off because it was worth a lot more and you could get a greater tax cut, but they cut something that would have at least been, I think, a little bit more interesting.
01:24:56
Speaker
I was wondering about the back row and the Flash thing, because yeah, it seems like with all the Miller controversy, the Flash would be the one that would be the most obvious to cut. I wonder if maybe there was a cap on how much they could get back from that, or maybe they just thought even with all the controversy, we could probably still make back more from the Flash movie than we get in a tax cut. Well, I also wonder too, because I have to keep in mind that a lot of the, when Discovery took over
01:25:26
Speaker
Warner, you know, they also inheriting some really bad decisions from that AT&T the previous owner made. So it may have been that they looked at the books and they thought, okay, there may have been a cap. I mean, I'm not an expert on corporate tax loopholes or law.
01:25:47
Speaker
but I also wonder if they looked at what was going on and it was like, okay, um, that, you know, there's a difference between say cutting muscle and cutting bone on the metaphorical level. They looked at, okay, we can cut muscle cut muscle. Okay. We got to cut bone. And what's the business decision? And it's like, maybe that cap was, we could cut this 300, but it's going to take us over the cap or we can cut this 90 million, you know, this 90,
01:26:17
Speaker
And that's where they had to cut. And
Fan Fiction and Legal Issues
01:26:21
Speaker
you will never know, because it's not like they're going to be forthright about it. But I do think that Gunn is at least taking this with the appropriate amount of seriousness, that it's not just big pie in the sky throwing stuff out there. And I know now there's a movement to sell the Snyderverse to Netflix for production.
01:26:48
Speaker
For those of you who are listening, you don't understand. Intellectual property don't work like that. I know. I know. Well, you know, but everyone out there probably doesn't know. It's like, no, you can't do that. No. Yeah, I'm just saying out of exasperation just because I keep seeing this. And I'm just like, that is not at all how any of this works. You guys need to go to copyright IP 101 because this is just ridiculous. No, it's not going to.
01:27:17
Speaker
Don't get me started. Just don't get me started. Yeah, I've got a better idea. You know, there's this great concept called fan fiction. For those who want to create, write your own fan fiction. Start, you know, you can start a website, you know, just throw on, throw up a, we're not trying to earn money from this stuff, you know, and just post that. Otherwise, you end up with an Alec Peters X in our situation where
01:27:44
Speaker
Alex Peters puts out a Star Trek fan film, and part of that is he's raising money via Kickstarter. He's selling merchandise based on
01:27:54
Speaker
his fan film Paramount says well you can't do that Paramount sues and as a result they change their their fan film rules so you can only do like a half hour but I look Peter's gonna thought yeah he's he's he's the he's the standard holder of Star Trek and I think with the the Snyderverse people it's like they feel like they are they are the standard bearers and it's like no just let it go
01:28:22
Speaker
discover something new.
Public Domain Character Projects
01:28:24
Speaker
Well, also another thing too. And I just saw this, I'm a member of a public domain heroes on Facebook and every now and then people will put like, you know, make like this version of this team with public domain characters. And just this morning, someone posted an interesting idea where, you know, how would you continue the Snyderverse stuff with public domain characters in the roles of the Justice League characters? Honestly, I would be interested to see that. I would be interested to see someone take a crack at doing that.
01:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, there's a YouTube creator by the name of Austin McDonald. And he's actually creating his own cinematic universe out of public domain characters. So he's doing an animated Pixar-style film involving Atlas, which is basically a guy who
01:29:13
Speaker
is rejected by a girl, so he starts exercising and becomes a superhero. He's working on an animated version of Catman. He's actually working on a Western version of Six Gun Gorilla, and a novel involving Spider Queen, which are all these public domain characters. It's like, yeah, maybe if you can't get the media you want,
01:29:40
Speaker
create what you're looking for. And hey, look, there's a bunch of characters here that you can use. But yeah, I'd be willing to watch a, in fact, if Zack Snyder is listening, because we all know he listens to this podcast. He's a big fan. After all the things I've said about some of his movies, I doubt it. Maybe he hate listens to it. Zack, listen to me. I know you're doing the Rebel Moon, the Star Wars pitch that got turned down. I get it. But you know what, dude, seriously?
01:30:10
Speaker
Do your do your Snyderverse, but go public domain, you know You know you can go to Facebook go to public domain heroes Just do it under under a false name because otherwise you'll get people, you know, they'll you'll get you know Obnoxious fanboys, but come on Zach, you know you want to In fact Zach you should do I think my dream project for you is you should work with Rob Liefeld I think the two of you would just create something
01:30:38
Speaker
unique together.
01:30:56
Speaker
He's got his own stuff. Yeah, I think he's had his fill with dealing with major studios. It's like he's probably just like, you know what? I'm dealing with Netflix. I'm doing my own thing. I'm cool.
Potential DC Universe Projects
01:31:07
Speaker
Anyway, the very last thing I want to touch on is, is there anything that we haven't announced that you'd be interested in seeing in the DCU? I know we mentioned, you know, Kingdom Come or something like that. But beyond that, is there anything you'd like to see either in the DCU continuity or as an Elseworlds project?
01:31:23
Speaker
There's a couple things I'd like to see, and I think they probably would probably kind of fit, probably they probably end up becoming Elseworlds, because I'm not sure what his long-term plans are. I would love to see
01:31:41
Speaker
kind of a legion of superheroes animated series. I know there was one years ago, you know, whether you involve Superman or not, that would be I think a really cool idea. And you've got basically, you know, decades of material to pull from. I would love to see
01:31:59
Speaker
I'd love to see maybe I would love to see a series and unfortunately they did some of it with star girl, but I'd love to see I a series inspired by the James Robinson star man series more importantly what I'd really love to see is Sandman mystery theater the series because I think you could do or a movie
01:32:24
Speaker
And the great thing is you could you could literally do it you do it black and white But have the dream sequences in black and white CGI you know hire the team that does the That does the Sandman series because that I was never a big Sandman fan for the comics but watching the Netflix series It's like that's the style. I'd like to see Sandman mystery theater
01:32:47
Speaker
It's just a very, it's just very visual. I just love the atmosphere. That's the atmosphere I would want to see for a Sandman Mystery Theater series. Yeah, for my part, I think there are two things that I'd like to see.
01:33:04
Speaker
They had, they, there was reference made, and we don't know if this is confirmed or not. This is just rumors that Michael Keaton was going to be in a Batman Beyond movie and it got canceled. Make that happen. I mean, he, Michael Keaton freaking looks like Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond. He looks exactly like him. This is the perfect time to do that project. And you could do it as a movie in an Elseworld setting. That would be really cool to see, I think. I agree.
01:33:30
Speaker
I don't think I think, and I just thought of another Elseworlds as I was saying that, but have you read the White Knight series? Batman the White Knight? Oh yes. Yes. I don't care if it's animation. Animation might be better because you could replicate Sean Murphy's style, but I think that would be also a really cool thing to see done as an Elseworlds. And then in the DCU itself, I'd like to see an HBO Max Green Arrow series. I know we had Arrow on TV and
01:34:00
Speaker
You know, it was great at first, and then it varied over the course of the later seasons, but mostly enjoyable. But the one problem I always had with Arrow was it was basically just Batman, but with Green Arrow's stick instead. And I would rather see a Green Arrow HBO series, and I think Gunn could definitely do this based on what he did with Peacemaker and how he involved politics in that.
01:34:25
Speaker
make it very political, right? Lean into the fact that Green Arrow is a progressive superhero. And I think that would be so cool to see. Yeah. And you play up the idea of the fact that he's a progressive superhero, yet he's also engaged in vigilante type stuff.
01:34:44
Speaker
He's also trying to have a halfway decent relationship. Like I'd say get rid of the whole womanizing Ali subplot, but make it as, he's also, since he at one point runs for mayor, you kind of have him brush up against in year three or four, the fact that he's now got to realize, okay, how do I balance the fact that I'm impacting a lot of people
01:35:14
Speaker
yet I also know that there are greater structural injustices that I can't handle by just shooting an arrow at it.
01:35:24
Speaker
And plus, I dig archery. So it's like, I agree with you. We need a decent Green Arrow series. Keep an eye on my stuff because I'm actually working on a comic book with the public domain hero, the Arrow. So I'm going to be playing with some of these ideas on my own. I'll show you more of that once it gets ready. But anyway, I think that about sums it up, everything that I had to say about the DCU slate. We actually ended up talking for a lot longer than I expected us to talk. I think both of us had a lot we wanted to say about this.
01:35:53
Speaker
Thanks so much for coming on and why don't you tell people where they can find you? Okay. Well, um, you can find my written work on Amazon. Um, just Google Gordon Damaski Amazon. Uh, I am also part of Chicago doctor who meet up. Um, you can also find both Chicago doctor who meet up and, um, my, and me Gordon Damaski on Patreon.
Where to Find Guest's Work
01:36:17
Speaker
I've got two different pages.
01:36:19
Speaker
One funds outings, one funds my writing. And my most recent works include a short story in Prose's Case of the Defective Detective compilation, as well as a Sherlock Holmes tale in Belanger Books, Sherlock Holmes, A Year of Mystery, 1884 collection. There you go. Okay, great. Thank you very much. And we'll have links to some of that stuff in the show notes so people will be able to go click and find them there.
01:36:46
Speaker
Gordon, thanks again for coming on. It was a lot of fun talking about this and it's late where you are. So I appreciate you accommodating Mike crazy on the other side of the world schedule to come on and talk about this. No problem. I'm really grateful to be here. Thanks for having me.
01:37:02
Speaker
Thank you. And that does it for this episode of the Superhero Cinephiles. Thank you for tuning into this special. And we'll be back soon with our regular episodes and our regular movie coverage. Thanks so much for listening. And always remember, superherocinephiles.com is the website, SuperCinemapod on Twitter or Instagram. And if you go to patreon.com slash SuperCinemapod,
01:37:25
Speaker
Subscribe for a dollar a month you can get these episodes a week in advance and also you'll get access to the Superhero cinephiles book club podcast where we talk about comics and graphic novels That's all for now, and we'll talk to you next time
01:37:42
Speaker
If you enjoy the Superhero Cinephiles, then you'll also love my companion podcast, the Superhero Cinephiles Book Club. All my Patreon subscribers get access to this exclusive podcast where I review superhero comics and graphic novels. Not sure what comics you want to read next or what you should dive into? I've got you covered on that. I'll be doing reviews, recommendations, and also talking to you about useful entry points
01:38:02
Speaker
If you're interested in reading some comics but don't know where you should start, plus you'll get access to all episodes of the main show a week before everyone
Podcast Conclusion
01:38:09
Speaker
else. On all of this for as little as just a dollar a month, all you have to do is go to patreon.com slash supercinemahot and you can sign up at any subscription amount to get started. Thanks so much for your support and please don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:38:46
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.