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SCP Classic – The Crow (1994)
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Recently, the remake/re-adaptation of The Crow was released to a negative reception. So we'll use this as an opportunity to revisit one of the earliest episodes when Perry and Derrick discussed the original 1994 version of The Crow.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:20
Speaker
One of these is a life. A life you help destroy. Come back here. Don't kill me. I'm not gonna kill you. Your job will be to tell the rest of them that death is coming for them. Tonight.
00:00:44
Speaker
Tell them Eric Draven sends his regards. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine. And I'm Derek Ferguson. How you doing today, Derek? I'm doing tolerably well as the old folks say. How are you doing, my friend? I'm doing pretty
Batman Episode and Listener Growth
00:01:05
Speaker
good. um So I actually found out something interesting because our last episode, we did it on 1989's Batman. Right. I was originally going to plan to release the episode on Monday. And then I wake up one day and.
00:01:22
Speaker
I get hit with ah email from Comixology and they say, you know, it's Batman day. So, you know, they had a big Batman sale and I'm like, oh shit, it's Batman day on Saturday and we're waiting for the episode on Monday. So we actually ended up timing that perfectly. Yeah, and you know what? I had a couple of people ask me too. They said, oh, you guys, you know, y'all, you know, you guys, you planned that out, right? I said, believe it or not, no I said, we had no idea and Batman Day was coming up.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. And luckily I finished editing the episode and it was already scheduled for release on Monday. So right away I jumped into there and I'm like, okay, I'm changing the release date to right now. Yeah. ah Well, why i'm not? I, died you know, I told people, I say, you know what? It's just one of those things. It just happened to work out like that, that, you know, which I'm glad it did because a lot of people seem to have enjoyed it, you know, but, uh, yeah, sometimes these happy accidents just work out like that. Yeah. And ah speaking of um kind of related, not quite as timed perfectly, but today's September 25th. Do you know whose birthday is today? Christopher Reeve. Christopher Reeve. Yeah, Superman, who we did in the we talked we gushed about in the first episode. Oh, absolutely. And rightfully so. but Yeah. Yeah. Today's his birthday. Wow.
00:02:48
Speaker
But yeah, it's been going good so far. you know we've Our show's been getting some numbers. you know We've got about 1,000 to 2,000 people listening every episode now, and we're only in two episodes in. Wow, we're only in two episodes. And for everybody who's listening to this now, for all you 2,000 people who are listening to this now, thank you very much. you know Both Perry and I, you know we appreciate.
00:03:10
Speaker
the support. I mean, we figured that people would be interested in this, but we had no idea that, you know, it would be such a response like that. You know, wow. Yeah. I mean, like you said, I mean, only two episodes in and, you know, we're getting those type of numbers. That's really fantastic. Thank you.
00:03:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's been wonderful. And, you know, we've been getting emails from people, you know, people we've known for years, Dale Glaser, Mark Buskett, sending us emails telling us how much they're loving the show. And, you know, that's, you know, that that I mean, that's it's it's awesome because we love doing this. You know, Derek and I, we've been chatting about superhero films and comic books and whatnot for years and being. And it's it's really nice to know that people like listening to it.
00:03:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, especially now with the plethora of podcasts that are out there I mean, because let's face it, everybody and their mothers doing a podcast now. So there's a lot of stuff out there to listen to. And, you know, like I always say to people, you know, I always appreciate, you know, when they give you their time, because that's the one thing that they can't, you know, that's the one coin that when people pay you, they can't get it back. Money. Yeah, you get money back, but not time. So to me,
00:04:25
Speaker
it really means a lot to me that people say okay i'm gonna make time to listen to this again i hope that we continue to inform and entertain and you guys keep listening and please let us know what you like what you want us to talk about and if we mess up by all means tell us that too we're you know we're human we're fallible we make mistakes so if we're doing something wrong by all means let us know we always we We always want to improve. That's our goal here. We want to improve and make this podcast a better production in all ways, possibly. Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Introduction to 'The Crow'
00:05:03
Speaker
Now, today, we're going to be talking about a movie that's very special to me personally, and that's The Crow from 1994. Yay! No, actually, after watching this movie today, you know what? and i' said Well, know what you go ahead and you talk first, because you picked this out, and like you said,
00:05:22
Speaker
that is personal to you. And then I'll jump in and give you my impression. So you go ahead first, my friend. OK, so The Crow is based on a comic book um of the same name by written and drawn by James O'Barr. And it was a it was a very personal story for him because he lost his girlfriend. She died in a drunk driving accident. Oh, and and as a way to work through, you know, his grief, um he created this character, which was um Kind of an it was inspired by so many things that he liked growing up and if you read the original graphic novel like you can see the influences all over it that like um the character of Eric was modeled on Iggy pop.
00:06:06
Speaker
um You know, there were so many references to punk music and gothic fiction, Paradise Lost, poetry, Emily Dickinson poems. like there's like Almost everything in The Kitchen Sink is crammed into this series, which is also ironic because Kitchen Sink Press eventually published the graphic novel for a time. Yeah, do this was an independent comic, right?
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, it was um four issues originally published by um Caliber Comics in 89 and then it became this underground success and then um ah Tundra Publishing reprinted it as the in two double-sized volumes, and then Kitchen Sink got the rights, and they collected it into the first complete graphic novel. And they also published a few miniseries based on that. um Later on, Image got the rights to the Eric Draven character, and they did um they relaunched it. where they did it. It was supposed to be an ongoing series, which would show him kind of like, because this the Crow TV show came out at the same time as this. So it had kind of a similar approach to that, but where his story would continue after he completed his after he got revenge.
00:07:24
Speaker
But it only lasted 10 issues, though it is a really good series. I recommend people check it out. And now IDW Publishing has the rights and they've reprinted pretty much everything.
Cult Status of 'The Crow'
00:07:34
Speaker
um Except the original graphic novel is available through Simon and Schuster now. Okay.
00:07:44
Speaker
So lots of stuff, um like but my but me, like most people, I didn't read the comic first. I came to it through the movie, which came out in 1994, but I didn't see it until probably a few years after that when I was um about 13, 14 years old, I believe, something like that. And yeah when I saw it, this movie, it It was, it had a massive impact on me as um as a 13, 14 year old kid. You know, I was like this shy introverted kid. So this movie spoke to me just like it spoke to a lot of people who were in that place in the 90s. One of those movies that like became like a cult hit due to VHS and it was being shown like a HBO like all the time, right?
00:08:31
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like a huge box office hit or anything like that. But it was it was VHS that cap kept this movie alive. Just like with Fight Club, right? It didn't do too well in the theaters, but it became a cult hit ah later on when it went to DVD. And the same thing happened with The Crow and like, you know, like, like most people, you know, I saw this, it I rented it, it was I rented it from the public library, actually, the first time I saw it.
00:09:00
Speaker
Oh wow, okay. Most of us, that's how that's how we saw it. We rented it from Blockbuster, rented it from the Public Library, or like you said, we caught it on HBO or something like that. And it spoke to, like, disaffected, introverted youth in a way that very few movies of the time, because you got to remember, people, this was pre-X-Men. So there was nothing like this out there for for guys like me.
00:09:24
Speaker
Right, right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, because I do remember seeing this during its original theatrical run. I saw this in 1994. for i I think was I still working for the Board of Education? Then I think I was because usually what I would do is like on a Friday after work, I would go to the movies and because I worked up in Manhattan and you know, like I would go see anything. You know me, I know I don't have it. So I do recall seeing this And I said, it's okay, but it didn't really turn my crank. And then I saw it years later. Cause like I said, it was on HBO. It was like one of those movies that is like, it seemed like every time I turned on TV, turned on TV and turned on HBO, the crow was on. It would be the crow or the beast master or, you know, it was like the stroke race. It was like one of these handful of movies. Like it seemed like they were showing it constantly. And I think that that's where it started to grow the youth following that it has. Now, because this movie does have a massive following. It does. Yeah, even to this day, people are still finding this movie and still falling in love with it.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I watched it today in preparation for this. And ah I have to say that I found a new appreciation for this movie, I think, because maybe because now there are people in there that I didn't know before, like John Polito is in this movie, which I completely forgot. Ernie Hudson is in this movie, which I completely forgot how I forgot her. Tony Todd.
00:10:59
Speaker
is in this Tony Todd. Yeah. Coming right off a Candyman, actually, because Candyman come out, I think, like a year or two before this. Right. I mean, there's all these people that's in this movie, like like I said, but I haven't seen this movie in about 10 years. And as I'm watching it and I keep on saying, oh, shit, oh, shit. OK, because there's all these people in there that I'm recognizing. I'm saying, well, how did I forget that these people? or in this movie, you know, and don't forget the Oh, and by Ling is in it, too. Yeah. By Lee. Yeah. Because the only one that I really remembered that was it was, of course, Brandon Lee, right who died so tragically in a now legendary manner.
00:11:37
Speaker
while he was making this movie, you know, Brandon Lee, the son of, ah you know, the great Bruce Lee. And it's it's really tragic because you look at Brandon Lee's filmography and, you know, he did before this, he did Showdown in Little Tokyo with Dolph Lundgren. He did Rapid Fire, you know, these very low budget.
00:11:57
Speaker
you know, kind of slapped together action movies. and Oh, and rapid fire, that's a great action movie. That, you know, if if you haven't seen it, folks, yeah, make that your homework assignment. I really like, you know, showdown in little Tokyo is okay, but, you know, I kind of like give the agent rapid fire. Maybe because it's him and he's doing all these martial arts and, you know, and he's not his father. I mean, nobody is his father, but he is pretty damn good.
Brandon Lee's Career and Tragedy
00:12:25
Speaker
They actually offered him because this movie, you know, this was around the same time that they were making Dragon the Bruce Lee story. ah Right. With Jason Scott Lee. Yeah. No relation. No relation. But they asked Brandon if he wanted to play his father in the Bruce Lee story and he turned it down. a Well, that's understandable.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, I could totally understand that. um And actually, I mean, i as I remember, it's like half remember, because I haven't seen Dragon in probably 15, 20 years, but I'm pretty sure I remember the movie ends with the birth of Brandon Lee, and I think there's a dedication to him at the end of it because he died before Dragon came out. Right. Now, it is interesting that you mentioned um John Polito, because have you ever read the original ah comic this was based on?
00:13:20
Speaker
No, I didn't know anything like you. You know, I saw the movie first and I had no idea that The Crow was a comic book until like years later. And I always said to myself, oh, yeah, well, I need to cut you.
00:13:35
Speaker
But for one reason or another, I never got around to it. Yeah. Well, it's a good comic. I definitely recommend checking it out. But the funny thing is about John Polito is the character he plays in the movie Gideon, the pawn shop owner. jo James O'Barr, he based that character on John Polito. So in the comics, it looks just like John Polito, too. And then When they were casting for this movie, you know, they asked Obar, you know, who do you have any suggestions? And he said, well, I want it's like i you're not going to get him, but I would love it if John Palito could play Gideon. And sure enough, they were able to get him. It's another example we were talking earlier, how things just happened to work out. You know, it it's really weird that, yeah, he drew this character with the accurate mind and then happened to get the actor to play the role that he had and had in mind for him in the beginning. You know, it's really
00:14:25
Speaker
you know and And like I said, John Polita, when I saw him, I said, oh my God, John Polita, I said, how could I forget this guy was in this movie? it It was wild. And he's got such a memorable scene in this movie, too. like When Eric comes into the the pawn shop, that is one of the best scenes in the movie. Yeah, I mean, they have such a... You know what? I like the way that people really interact with the Eric Draven character in this movie, you know because You know how usually, like in these movies, people take a lot of time, you know, like saying, oh, you, oh, listen, you can't be here. You're dead. theyre dealing dead Nobody does that in this movie. They just can't get as a given. Well, this guy came back from the dead and they deal with it from there. Well, the the one exception to that is um you've got ah Albrecht and T-Bird. They're the only ones who really have that you you're dead. You can't be here reaction, but they do it in very different ways.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. And you know what? Even Albrecht, who that's the character played by Ernie Hudson. I mean, no, that's the cop. He kind of like very quickly adjusts to the situation. He does. Yeah. Because there's the scene when is he he knows the because he he figures it out, you know, he kind of figures out that this guy with the makeup is Eric Draven. And then when they finally have that sit down in his apartment, right. You know, Eric just appears and he's like freeze and he drops the beer bottle and he's like, shit, man, don't do that.
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Oh, man, don't do that. He has this brief reaction where he's like, wait a minute, I saw you die. You were buried, but you're back. And then he just kind of adjusts to it really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. yeah You know, he doesn't waste a lot of time, you know. And that's what I like. That's one of the things I like about this ah movie. For those of you who don't know the plot of this movie very quickly, Perry run through the plot.
00:16:21
Speaker
So the plot of the movie is you had this couple, Eric Draven and Shelley Webster, and they're murdered by a gang of arsonists because Shelley was trying to fight eviction in um their apartment building.
00:16:38
Speaker
And the guy who owns the building, Top Dollar, he sent one of his gangs to shut them up. So they break into their apartment on Devil's Night, night before Halloween, and they rape and they murder Shelly. They leave her in like a really bad position. She ends up in a and intensive care for 30 hours. And then in the middle of this assault,
00:17:02
Speaker
ah Her fiancé, Eric, walks in, and they kill him, they shoot him, they stab him, and they throw him out the window, and he falls six stories to his death. Now, a year later...
00:17:14
Speaker
um eric comes back to life through the power of the crow and it's it's told very quickly like they don't spend a lot of time on the on the wise and wherefores of this they just kind of jump right into it like right in the beginning you have sarah the little girl played by rachelle davis her voice over she says you know people once believed that when someone dies a crow carries their soul to the land of the dead But sometimes something so bad happens, the soul can't rest. And sometimes the crow can bring that soul back to set the wrong things right. And that opening narration, that's all you need to understand what's happening throughout the rest of the movie. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I was watching this movie today, and and the one thing that really impressed me about this movie is that this is, you know what?
Efficient Storytelling in 'The Crow'
00:18:03
Speaker
If they were making this movie now, it would probably be about like three hours long and they would go into all this backstory about Eric and his girlfriend and, you know, and Albrecht and, you know, because now people are obsessed with backstory. Oh, well, we got to know the backstory of this. so We got to. We don't know the backstory of nobody in this movie. No, not at all.
00:18:24
Speaker
This is like real oldschool old school, old fashioned filmmaking. We're just presented with the characters as they are now. We're not concerned with what they were before. the events of this movie. Right. And they do such a good job of establishing those character relationships in seconds. Boom, it's done. And it's like, you know, you see at the at the beginning of the movie, it opens with um the aftermath of the murder. And so Albrecht there, he's at the scene of the crime. Sarah comes up and, you know,
00:18:57
Speaker
he asked and you know shelly says you know tell him to take care of sarah and then he asked and then albrecht asked her you're sarah and she says yeah he's like look you know your sister and she's like no she's not my sister her and eric just take care of me so yeah and then and then you find out why because you know they should her mom's you know this uh this drug addict um who's sleeping with one of the one of the guys and um And you get the sense maybe she might be a prostitute as well on the side, but again, like this stuff is not really spelled out. It's just everything is just like lightly hinted. And then you see like a year later, you see that Albrecht's kind of taken over that role because she comes by the hot dog stand and he's very friendly with her. He buys her dinner.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. And it it's it's never stated. It's never said outright. It's just very quickly established in quick succession. And then they just move on. Yeah. And then and you know they have a really nice, sweet kind of relationship. This cop and this you you know little girl and everything like that.
00:19:59
Speaker
And one thing, you know what, if the movie was made now, you know, you'd have people saying, oh, well, it's inappropriate for him to be friends with this young girl or anything like that. But, you know, something, if you look at the movie, you see that there's never hit anything like that in the thing. No, not at all. I mean, you know, people read too much. This is such OK, the storytelling in this movie is so efficient. That's what I'm looking for. This is efficient storytelling that tells you exactly what you need to know when you need to know it and tells you no more than that. Yeah, exactly. And like and like you're saying with the the beginning, like how does the crow bring them back to life? How does he have powers? Like none of that is explained at all. It's just like, look, there's a there's a magic crow. It brings people back from the dead. That's it.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's magic. That's it. The girl told you in the beginning, yeah, well, you know, the crow comes and brings people back to life, too. You know, eventually, you know, OK, boom, that's all you need to know. Yeah, and there's no like there's no like big research scene where you see her sitting in a library like leafing through old books or anything like that. It's just all just It's, boom, we've established it, let's move on. a Exactly. like Like I said, you know, and I'll say it again, if they were making this movie now, you would have people that would say, oh, well, that's a plot hole. Well, what do you mean that's a plot hole? Well, they never explain how the chrome comes back. It's magic, stupid. That is one of my biggest pet peeves these days, is people talking about plot holes who don't, who clearly don't know what that word means.
00:21:42
Speaker
oh No, no, no, no what it is. Plot hole is shorthand for, well, I don't understand it. So it must be a plot hole. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, that's that's not a plot hole. That's not how plot holes work. No, it's not a plot hole. It's not. Yeah, it's not. But yeah, but I mean, this is such it's tight, efficient storytelling. yeah You know, ah In fact, so speaking of, it's so efficient, the three main bad guys, their names are never spoken on screen. You know, Michael Wincott's character, top-dollar, um, By Link's character, Maya, and Tony Todd, Grange. Their names are in the credits, but they're never once spoken on screen. Yeah, you know something? Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right. they he's ah Michael Wicott, he's never referred to by name. No, not once. But again, the way the story moves, it moves, it's something you don't need. Well, see, okay, I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out, you know, just now. But yeah that but that's how caught up I got up in this story.
00:22:53
Speaker
And here's the thing, even though it doesn't have a long run time and it's so efficient, the movie never feels like it's rushing. No, no. And the way that, you know, Wincott and Ling and ah Todd, they established their characters, their characters have this presence. So you don't even really, that's why that's why you don't even notice that they don't say their names, because until you get to the end and then you're like, wait a second. But they have this big presence in the movie. All three of them do a really great job of stealing the scene when they're in the movie that you never really noticed that. But see, that's what happens. We have a director like Alex Proyas. I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. Yeah. He's a guy that ah also directed one of my favorite or absolute favorite all time movie, Dark City. One of our favorites. I love that movie. Oh, man. And he's a guy.
00:23:45
Speaker
that. No. And also, you know what? I'm going to try to squeeze in so dark city. Excuse me. I'm going to try to squeeze a dark city in a future episode by trying to in my pathetic way to explain why I think it's a superhero origin story. I'm gonna try to do that, folks. Alex Roy is such a visual stylist that he says a lot with just images. Oh, you know, just a ah brief digression ah about Dark City. like Everyone talks about The Matrix as being this real visionary movie. No, fuck that. Dark City is the real visionary movie, and it came out before The Matrix. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You know, people, but you know what? And not to knock the matrix because it's an OK movie, but if OK for people like me and you that have been reading comic books and watching Japanese action movies, Hong Kong, john wou that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff. There wasn't anything new in The Matrix we hadn't seen already. Right. Right. You know, that was for the people here that didn't know this stuff. But, you know, like I told you, I said, no, I said,
00:24:59
Speaker
There's nothing new in The Matrix. Although this movie does have a Matrix connection though, the Crow. It does? Because the Wachowskis, they have said that if he had survived, Brandon Lee would have been their ideal choice for Neo. Oh, I can see that. Yeah, definitely I can see that.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, let's let's talk a little bit about Brandon Lee, because this... he did Rapid Fire, he did Showdown in Little Tokyo. He hadn't really broken out of that mold, so, like, nobody really took him seriously as an actor. And, in fact, when um when he was first cast, James O'Barr was ah was upset, because he thought they were just gonna turn it into a Kung Fu movie, because the only thing he'd seen Lee in was Showdown in Little Tokyo. And that it wasn't until he actually met him on set that...
00:25:48
Speaker
And he saw him in the makeup and in the costume that he's like, oh, holy shit. And he said that he was amazed by how, by Brandon's take on the character when he spoke the lines from the comics. And it was like he came right out of the comics. And Brandon Lee, you can tell like he took this material very, very seriously. He loved that comic book and it shows in his performance and he gives an amazing performance in this movie. He took it so seriously that there's one thing that I like in this movie, if you notice, Eric Draper doesn't do any martial arts. No, no, not really. Because he's not a martial artist.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah. So he doesn't, so, so we don't get this guy. He's a musician. Yeah. But we don't all of a sudden, you know, he's not like flying through the air, you know, yeah. And I mean, you know, uh, giving guys judo chops and kicking them and doing everything. He does a couple of backflips and stuff like that, but basically he's just, you know, like punching guys out and you know, but he's not doing any of the martial arts move that you would see. Brandon Lee do in any of his other movies, you know No, in fact, if this is the only movie that you've seen Brandon Lee in which is probably true for a lot of people because I'm guess just rapid fire and showdown little Tokyo They weren't big hit movies. So not especially now a lot of people probably don't even know about them But if you had only seen this movie, you would not know Brandon Lee was a martial artist Exactly exactly you you would not even guess that yeah you know they said d okay you would hear the name but you wouldn't like associate him with you know being the son of Bruce Lee if you had just seen this movie because like I said he doesn't do any martial arts in this movie you know. Well even in this movie like just going by like he doesn't really look like his father at all in this movie.
00:27:42
Speaker
No, no, no. Now in rapid fire, if you've ever seen rapid fire, he does look a lot like his father. Oh yeah, yeah. you know Which is, it's kind of amazing. Cause you see him and other stuff when he's got like his hair pulled back or his hair shorter, he looks a lot more like his father. But in this, it's just something about the way he plays that character. It's it's like the the Christopher Reeve thing we were talking about in Superman and Michael Keaton in Batman. He fully becomes that character.
00:28:11
Speaker
yeah Well, he's fully committed to this role that he's playing. And I think that what it is, too, is that he was determined to make his mark as an actor and not just as a martial art.
00:28:25
Speaker
And it's so tragic because this movie, I think it may have taken a few years if, you know, if there was no tragedy on the set, but he would have eventually had a breakout. This would have been a breakout role or at least a major milestone in his acting career. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, don't I mean, no doubt, because he, you know, he goes through such a gamut ah of emotions in this movie and he even manages like a little bit of content. There are some things.
00:28:54
Speaker
Well, he's actually very funny. He confronts like some of the bad guys that he's after, you know, and he has these like little witty one liners that he throws off and everything like that. You know, he's actually very funny. And then in the scenes where we have to see his grief. over this tragedy that's happened to him and his girlfriend you know it's very real you know you could feel it coming through the screen i mean it's a great performance it's wonderful oh it's it's amazing like you know most if you haven't seen this movie your impression of it might be you know oh it's uh
00:29:26
Speaker
it's a depressing movie for goth kids right but and you you would think that just looking at the the aesthetic of it and everything and the reputation it has but you watch this movie and brandon lee does not play eric like that at all right he's not going around moping the whole time and citing poetry he does some of that but he also mixes it it in with um with a lot of humor like yeah and and he transitions to it so seamlessly and there are parts in this movie when you think you know he because there's there's a subtle undercurrent that he's going insane because of this because of his grief because of everything he's experienced and they play it in only a few beat bits like when he um when he's playing the guitar on the roof and then he smashes it yeah
00:30:18
Speaker
or when he asks Albrecht to tell him what happened to them. And then he says, you know, she was beaten and raped, and he gets this like look of terror on his face. And Albrecht's like, well, Jesus, man, I'm sorry, but you asked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that, I love that. He's, hey, man, listen, you asked, okay? Don't freak out now, you know? But that scene with them in the apartment, that is one of the most human scenes, and one of the most beautiful scenes in this whole movie.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah, because Eric then he demonstrates he has, because he has these abilities. And one of them is that he touches Albrecht by the head and he gets all the memories that he had. And like he thinks, he says, oh man, he said, you know, you stay with her the whole time. He said, yeah, yeah you know, you want her to be by herself. And I was hoping she could tell me who did this. And it's funny because because you can see that Albrecht still trying to play the role of Hard-nosed cop right because you get the sense that he's because this is it's never explicitly stated but the graphic novel was set in Detroit and Devil's night is a is a thing that was going on in Detroit back in the day, so
00:31:28
Speaker
So it's heavily implied that they're in Detroit in this movie. And so you get the sense that Albrecht's this kind of like hard-nosed Detroit cop who's kind of seen it all, and he tries to keep emotions separate from it. Yeah. When he's talking, when Eric says that to him, he's like, you know, I saw i saw her through your ah your eyes, and he's like, you were with her the whole time. Albrecht has this moment where he's like, whoa, wait, hey, hey, hey, hey. Like, i'm just doing I'm just a guy doing a job. Like, he's trying to deny that he has any emotional attachment to this case. Right. Exactly. But again, if he doesn't have any emotional attachment to the cake, why does he still have the file in his apartment a year later? You know, he's still trying to fit. He's still trying to piece together what happened and figure out who did did this.
00:32:13
Speaker
to this girl. Uh, you said something interesting. Yeah, because I did not realize this was supposed to be taking place in Detroit. I just thought this was like a generic nameless type of city, but the city itself is like a character in this movie.
00:32:31
Speaker
And I was watching it while I was watching it today. And I was going back. I was thinking the back to when we were talking about the 1989 Batman. And I said, you know something? This is what Gotham City should have looked like in that movie. ah You know, nothing against because, again, we we both love the aesthetic of Batman and the the Gothic style of it. But it's not a city. But like I said, when we talk about that, ah it's not a city that feels lived in. Right. It is a a city that feels lived in.
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, this city is lived in, is dirty, is grimy. It looks like some place that nobody, no sane person would want to live in, you know? And you get the feeling that people live here because they simply can't afford to go anywhere else. This is like a miserable city, you know? And I was looking at it and I said, wow, this is, you know, know this is great. ah There are little things I notice and it's because I've seen this movie probably like in the triple digits, all right? But, like, I've seen this movie so much, I could put it on mute, and I would be able to recite it line from line. And I would have the timing right, I would have every single word, I guarantee you I could do that. But I still noticed something, some different, some new things about it when I was watching it. And there are two things I noticed. One thing is that the police force here is obviously corrupt, like that detective, um Torres, is obviously on the take. Yeah, okay, you can look at that guy tell he's good. Well, you can look at okay.
Themes and Characters in 'The Crow'
00:34:00
Speaker
Look at his clothes The guy does is too well to be cop But like and yeah, I'm thinking back to it because he says he's like, you know He's like, you know who who gave the order to move her and he's like, he's like nobody moves her and he's like, well, she's dying What do you expect us to do? And he's like, I don't care right so you can that's kind of a weird thing for a cop to do but and then also like he's
00:34:21
Speaker
he's getting pissed off at albrecht for not telling him more about about not doing more about this vigilante who's killing scumbags right and and he and he demotes him that you know we put some on suspension and they also have they said that you know albrecht was uh... busted before for uh... he was demoted before because he was sticking his nose where it wasn't wanted because he was trying to investigate who killed these two right well There is, I believe there is a lot where Torres tells him, you know, that's how come you lost your gold shield? They're implying that he was a detective. You know, at one time he got busted back to, you know, know being a, ah you know, regular st street cop. And so you can tell that Torres is probably on the take. And then you've got top dollar. Now, this is the other thing I noticed, which is really interesting.
00:35:11
Speaker
is that the speech he gives right before you know in front of all the the other crime figures right before eric bus said right here talks about um how you know he's like the idea has become the institution is like i had started the first fires and before i knew it everybody else was imitating me and you compare that to the scene when he first appears right when we first see him and he's kinda like got this like despondent look on his face and he says, you know you know, my dad gave me this and he told me that your childhood's over the moment and you know you're going to die.
00:35:46
Speaker
But when he sees Eric for the first time, like he seems to like get a new sense of like purpose. So you get the feeling. like It kind of reminds me of General Zod in Superman II after he conquered the world. like Remember, he's he's sitting in the White House. And what's her name? I can't remember her name now. But she says to him, Ursa. Ursa says to him, you know you are master of all you survey. And he says, just like I was the day before. And the day before that. And he seems really bored with the idea. he wants conquest he wants something to do i get that same kind of vibe from top dollar that he's been this kind of like anarchist type of guy who lit fires for the fun of it and now he's this crime lord and he's bored with it well it's that old that age old dilemma that plays humanity constantly
00:36:37
Speaker
You know, we always want something. There's something we always want, but when we get it, we find that having it, you know, we built up the anticipation so much. That that was the fun part, the anticipation, the getting it. And once we can get it, then we say, Oh, well, you know what? This wasn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be. You know? Yeah. And you do get that sense that, you know, there's no challenge for him.
00:37:00
Speaker
You know, he's reached the pinnacle of his profession, so to speak. And, you know, there's no challenge. There's nothing left him to do until this guy comes along who provides him with a challenge. You know, he's a guy that can't be killed. You know, so, hey, you know, what better challenge can there be for him? Other than, you know, um trying to kill a guy who can't be killed.
00:37:23
Speaker
And then and it puts his his last lines into a lot more context because, you know, right before when they're up on the roof and he says to Eric, you know, well, if it's any consolation to you, you've put a smile on my face. That line makes so much more sense in that context. Yeah, because he was having fun. He was enjoying himself. This was a challenge to him. This is somebody that was, you know, and equal, almost. That scene that's on the roof, that final, most, you know, final scenes, I mean, you know, with the bad guy, it doesn't have a like a kind of resonance, you know? Okay, hero kills the bad guy, and that's it. But you really do get a sense of this, if that's the right word, when Eric Farley achieves what he's been trying to do after all this time, because I think, wait a minute,
00:38:13
Speaker
Does he kill Biling too? No, the crow kills her. the cro thank you Yeah, she he it it pecks out her eyes and then she falls. Yeah, poor poor child. i Going back to Ernie Hudson, because Ernie Hudson is masterful in this movie. And going to like how we talked about how people just kind of accept things, like he comes in to that church, and he's got the the most practical plan someone should have in a movie like this. He says, OK, look, you stand out in front. When they're done shooting at you, once they run out of ammo, then I'll arrest them. Yeah. Oh. Which is a very practical point. In a lot of ways, Ernie Hudson is the stand-in for the audience in this movie.
00:38:55
Speaker
because he's like basically like the everyman type of character even the little girl you know she's got ties like to Eric and stuff like that so she's like more emotionally invested and she's really not like she's a character that's that's like standing off to the side And she's observing things. It's not like Ernie Hudson, who is actually, you know, he's actually part, uh, he's part of everything that's going on. And he, and he helps move the plot along cause he gives Eric a lot of information and he backs him up when he needs to be, but he's more or less are standing cause he's like the most regular normal person that's in the movie.
00:39:37
Speaker
Because even like the little girl, you know like you said earlier, her mother, she's a drug addict. addict you know She's a part-time prostitute and everything like that. so you know And even though you have a nice little scene where they bond after her mother, you know she encounters Eric. And he uses another one of his abilities to draw the drugs out of her system. And he has that wonderful line where he says that ah you know mother is the name for God, you know little children. and That's the name for God.
00:40:06
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, mother's the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children. Right, and he said, you know, go be a mother. And she goes, and the next thing she's doing, she's making breakfast for her kid. And even the kid is freaked out again, just like, wait a minute, you don't make breakfast. You get the sense that this is not gonna be an easy transition for either of them. Right, right. She gets up and she's just like, she's like, what did you take? take What drug did you take to become mother of the year? She's like, what are you, what are you, how high are you right now?
00:40:35
Speaker
And she's like, no, it wasn't drugs. Someone just kind of woke me up. And she's like, she's like, you're acting weird. And then, you know, Darla gets, you know, she's like, I can't do this. She's like, you know, forget it. I was never good at this mommy shit. And then Sarah, you know, she stopped. She's like, no way. Yeah, I'll eat. the So they you get the sense that they're going to try, but it's not going to be easy. Yeah. Yeah. And she calls her mother before she was calling her about it, which is why you didn't notice was her mother because she goes to air She goes to the bar. They had a scene before that where she goes to the bar and she's calling her Darla. First time I saw this movie, I thought it was, you know, maybe it was her sister or something like that. Right. Yeah. You you didn't know that was her mother until, I mean, you know, later on. And then when the the bartender, he gives her a root beer and he said, and she, they see Darla going up the stairs with fun boy. And he says, look, your mom, technically she's off right now.
00:41:27
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And that's the first time you find out. And then that's when you realize, oh, shit, that's a mother. But yeah, but they've seen they had the breakfast scene. And like you said, the genius of the writing in this movie in that they don't instantly bond and have a happy ending. No, but there is the seed in there that year that they're going to work toward a better relationship now, you know, yeah because now she's got that wake up call, which, you know, I mean,
00:41:54
Speaker
You know, I really have to thank you for recommending this movie because, like I said, now I've seen it. And after, you know, all this time has went by, I'm watching it with fresh eyes. And I developed a new appreciation for this movie because it's got a lot of love. It's not just a superhero movie. It's not just that, but it's got elements of horror movie. It's got ah elements of a revenge action movie. And I think that that's one of the reasons why this movie has lasted so long and enjoyed the reputation that it does, because it's a tragic romance. Yeah, because it's got so many different elements and they all work together. They're not working against each other. They all work together. Yeah, it's a masterclass in like how to weave different stories together and different tones, too. Like we're talking about the the humor Eric uses. It softens the blow. He knows
00:42:41
Speaker
when's the right time to use the humor? And like, you know, I love the Marvel movies, but sometimes they may lean a little bit too much in the humor area. Whereas this one, it always has that perfect balance. Yeah. Yeah. They've had a tendency to in recent movies and I'm with you there. I love them a lot, but they tend to get a little bit too jokey sometimes, you know, whereas, whereas with a little bit of ah a little bit of gravitas, we would take it a little more You know, seriously, like say, like the Captain America movies, Captain America movies know when to strike that right balance, oh yeah you know, and have a little bit of humor to balance out things. And I mean, as much as I love the Black Panther movies and the Thor movies and all the other movies, the Captain America movies is like the crown jewel of, you know, the MCU. I mean, those. that
00:43:34
Speaker
I mean, those are like three damn near perfect movies. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Taking it back to to this movie. What did you think about the um the guys who played the the gang members? So we had T-Bird, Funboy, Tintin and Skank. One of them played by again. Michael Massey. No, no, no. David Patrick Kelly. Oh, OK. I thought you were going to mention Michael Massey.
00:43:59
Speaker
Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. In fact, interesting thing about Kelly, you know how in the in the flashback scene at the murder scene, he's quoting from Paradise Lost, right? He says you as the devil stood and felt an awful goodness. And he says it right before Eric sets his car on fire. Kelly added those lines into the movie because he he read the comic, he read the source material and he loved it. And so then he had this copy of Paradise Lost and he brought it to the set.
00:44:27
Speaker
And he just randomly starts saying reading from the book as if he found it in the um in Eric and Shelley's apartment. And he just threw that in himself. But you know what? Again, I'm not surprised, because that's how good of an actor he is. And he was another guy. When I saw this movie, I said, oh, sure, how could I forget that he was in this movie? He was. And the guys that play, you know what I like about all of the games? You can't get them confused, because they all got distinct personalities. They do, yeah.
00:44:53
Speaker
They're all bad shit insane, but they're all distinct, different personalities and they are sadistic and brutal. But again, they each have little moments where they get to be funny as well. Like when the guy goes, you know, the black guy, when he goes to the pawn shop. and Yeah. And him and John Polito, they have wonderful exchange together. Oh, that's such a funny exchange. You know, and, and you know, John Polito,
00:45:24
Speaker
He's over there. ah Okay, this guy is trying to sell him stolen stuff. He knows he's stolen. So he's gonna, you know, he's not gonna pay this guy what it's worth. And Ten Ten knows he's not paying him what he's worth. And these are two guys that know that they tried to bullshit each other and they just have a wonderful dialogue back and forth together. Yeah, he picks up the purse and he's like, he's like, what? There's blood on this, man. Yeah. And it's just like, and he says, it's just so casually.
00:45:51
Speaker
yeah
00:45:55
Speaker
ah what yeah And even when Tintin has his confrontation with Eric, there's even a little bit of humor in there that he gets in there. David Patrick Kelly, T-Bird, he's got a moment of you know like remorse.
00:46:11
Speaker
which is wonderfully paid played. Like, you know, he's, you know, he's smart talking. He's like, he's like, oh yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah. But then he realizes that it's Eric. Yeah. And then this is this, like, you know, with Albrecht, it's a similar reaction, but completely different. Whereas has this is like, he's like, you you can't be you. He's like, this is the really real world. There's no coming back. And he starts freaking out. And then he starts reciting the line from Paradise Lost again. You know, a bash, the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is. And so that's like this. He's starting to feel remorse for some for what he did. Like now, buddy, you should have definitely did it. Yeah. But him and then you have that other guy. I don't know if he's going to be like a method or whatever, but he just totally. Oh, he it totally loses it.
00:47:00
Speaker
Oh, you know, not fun boy. yes You know, yeah, he angel da he just loses it. He does. And then there's Tony Todd, who is like the best kind of hit. He's almost like a James Bond kind of hit. And he is. He's very much a James Bond henchman. Yeah, he reminded me a lot. I said, you know what? He should have been in the James Bond movie playing this guy. You know, my god why did nobody ever think of that?
00:47:26
Speaker
Yeah, he would have been perfect. Because he's like really laid back. He's efficient at his job. Yeah, but but he's like also kind of laid back and he's kind of relaxed and, you know, he like looks after his boss kind of and he puts clues together because he's the guy that goes to the graveyard and he puts the clues together and he said, OK, well, this guy came back from the dead. And, and yeah you know, you can see he kind of takes in his stride to, you know, just like everybody else in this movie, taking in the stride that this is a guy that came back from the dead.
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, and then you got Michael Massey as a fun boy who's, he's great in this. Like he's, you know, he's, um, playing this heroin addicted, um, nutcase Eric shoots him in the leg. And the only thing he's concerned about, he said, man, look what you did to my sheets.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah, that that'll like talking about the the humor again, right? Brandon Lee is so funny in that scene. Yeah, because he puts his hand right up against the gun barrel because that's what pulls out the big hulking huge gun. And he puts his hand up against the barrel right up against himself to make a better shot.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah, take your shot. And then he shoots him and he starts laughing. You know, it's interesting, because now that I realize this, Eric adjusts his approach for to Taylor. He tailors it for each of the villains. Yeah. Oh, yeah. With Funboy, he's laughing. He's joking. He's very manic. um With T-Bird, he's stoic. He never says a word. He never says a word to T-Bird, right? Other than drive. That's all he says.
00:49:03
Speaker
But when he's like taping him to the chair and T-bird's freaking out, Eric doesn't say a word. And then with ah with Tintin, you know, he's very much like in full on revenge mode, because that was like one of the most, he was one of the most brutal ones to her. So he shows that brutality back to him. Yeah, he's very physical. He beats him up. And I think there's is a scene where, like I said, yeah, well, you know, some, you know, they, uh, they find his dead body and they say, yes, somebody stuck him with his own knives in all of his yeah major organs and the alphabetical order. You know, so, yeah. So he, he, yeah so Eric plainly took his time with him, you know, he, he just didn't kill him, you know, like outright. He took his time with him.
00:49:46
Speaker
And then with ah with skank, right? He just kind of like tosses him out the window because he's like this guy. i don't He's like, he's like nobody. He's nothing. Yeah. Well, well no. Yeah. Because he's a follower. You know, yeah he's just a drug addict, you know, follower. He's not, you know, he was like one of the major guys that was involved in it and all the brutality that, you know, went into, you know, his girl being killed. And, you know, it was a
00:50:15
Speaker
Oh, let me see. I lost my train of thought. Yeah, again. We see how there's so much more working in this movie than you would think from seeing, like you said, the way he tailors, the way he takes his revenge on each gang member, tailors it to their personality. Yeah. You know, that takes some th thought. That just doesn't happen by accident. You know, I mean, the director or the writer and the actors, whoever, they all sit down and they thought about this and they said, okay, Well, you know, Lester, there's a lot of thought that went into this movie. It's not just your generic ah grind house, you know, exploitation type of movie. There was a lot of thought that went into this movie, into the characterizations, into how they interact with each other.
Genre Fusion in 'The Crow'
00:51:03
Speaker
You know, the scenes together because ah the emotions that are at play between the little girl and the cop and Eric
00:51:15
Speaker
If that in itself becomes like a nice little family type of dynamic. Yeah, absolutely. They actually changed a lot of stuff from the original comic, but you know what? It's it's this really cool thing because it's very different from the comic, but at the same time, it really captures the spirit of the comic.
00:51:33
Speaker
Well, see, that's the whole thing. You know what? And you know, a lot of people, they always complain about this. They always say, oh, how come they change it? I hate when he changed. I hate. it Well, you know what? They have to change it because film and comics are two different mediums. Exactly. So things for whatever reason, they have to be changed. And me, really, I'm with you. As long as they get the spirit of the original, I'm good with whatever change that they make, provided that the change is organic.
00:52:03
Speaker
And it enhances the story and it does. Now, see, after watching this movie, I almost don't want to read the comic because I enjoy this movie so much. I don't want anything spoiled for me. You know what I mean? I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I read the comic, even though I'm going to read it anyway, because usually you go to what's that online thing that comics, comics, ology. Yeah. Oh, yeah, comics, ology. I mean, you know, this one, it's not available on Comixology. It looks like Simon and Schuster. They do have it available as a Kindle edition. So it's available on Amazon. But for some reason, they don't have it on Comixology as well. Because Comixology, man, they're taking all of my money. Oh, God, tell me about it, man. That Batman sale they just had. Like, I just I just bought like the whole nightfall collection. Oh, for God's sake. I mean, it's ridiculous. I mean, you know, they're practically giving shit away.
00:52:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. The Marvel sales are unbelievable. Like every every month or so, they got a Marvel sale where there's discounting stuff trades like two bucks. Yeah. And I said, well, how are they making any money on this? you Well, you know how? Because because every time they do that, I end up spending like 80 bucks on trades. Yeah. and Yeah. Yeah. I know you're right. I think, you know, I think the last time that they had a sale. Yeah. I easily spent about 40 or 50 bucks. Oh, it it's so easy, because I'm like, oh, add to cart, add to cart. It's only two bucks. And now I look at the checkout, I'm like, holy fuck. yeah Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. That's how they get you. Because you said, yeah, it's only two, three dollars. Click, click, click, click, click. And then like you said, when you get to the checkout and then you say, yeah well, you know what? I don't went to the edge of the cliff. Why not jump off? You know what? but yeah yeah yeah I get the sticker shock when I see the total. I'm like, all right. Well, look i i got I'm going to remove some of these. then I'm going through and I'm like,
00:53:57
Speaker
Fuck, I don't wanna, fuck, fine, I'll just buy them all. Yeah, right, there you go. You say, what the hell, click, you know. Yeah, I'm here, I'm here i'm here now, pull the trigger. What the hell? But yeah, but but yeah, like I said, I almost don't wanna spoil the book because this movie is so well put together and I don't want anything to spoil my enjoyment of it.
00:54:24
Speaker
But let me ask you another
Sequel and Remake Discussions
00:54:26
Speaker
question. yeah You were talking about you know the TV series and you know everything. How come this movie was never remade? They've been talking about remaking it several times. OK. So there have been some interesting. like yeah This is a good point to talk about the legacy of this movie, because this movie has a massive legacy. So after the movie came out, like originally, Brandon Lee was signed on to do sequels.
00:54:54
Speaker
Oh, okay. But obviously, you know, he died, so he wasn't able to. Now, I don't know what they originally planned to do if he had survived. Like, if they were going to have Eric resurrected again, or if he was, if there, or if he was going to survive this movie, or if it was going to be a thing where like, like a reincarnation thing, like they do another movie, and it's just a guy who happens to look like Eric type of thing.
00:55:17
Speaker
Right. So I'm not sure what they originally planned with ah with all of that, but what they did do is, after after Brandon Lee's death, they they did a sequel. The Crow City of Angels came out in 96, 97, I believe. And they had Vincent Perez play a different guy who's resurrected by the Crow. And they brought back Sarah, but she's an adult now, played by Mia Kirchner. That was a, it was an interesting movie. It was one of David Goyer's first screenwriting credits. And we could talk about this, we ever decide to, in more depth, we ever decide to cover that movie. But it's, it's like, if you read the comic that was based on the screenplay, you can tell that they were trying to take the franchise in a different direction. But during production, they got scared and they made, and they changed it. So it's more like the original as a result. It's this mishmash of a movie. Like, there's things that really work in it and things that don't, and I hated it when I first saw it, but I've kind of developed a new appreciation for it afterwards. Two other sequels after that that were direct-to-video. One was ah The Crow Salvation, came out in like 2000, 2000, 99, 2000, 2001, something like that. And that was direct-to-video, and it was starring ah Eric Mabius. Kirsten Dunst was also in that one, actually. Oh, OK. And and then they did fourth and final movie was called ah The Crow Wicked Prayer. It was also direct to video. But interestingly, they had some names you'd recognize in this. So the main character, the guy who gets resurrected, was played by Edward Furlong from Terminator 2. Oh, OK. I know him. And David Boreanaz played the the main villain.
00:56:51
Speaker
Oh, Angel. Angel, yeah. Tara Reade played one of the villains as well. So did Dennis Hopper. This movie, Wicked Preer, it's absolutely fucking terrible. But you want to watch it just for Dennis Hopper. Because it's clear, Dennis Hopper came to this set and he's just like, you know what? I'm just going to be high the entire fucking time I'm doing this movie.
00:57:16
Speaker
ah Okay, he's just off his rocker the entire movie and it's it's so much fun to watch Yeah, now see that I would want to see just for Dennis Hopper alone. I mean, hey, he's Dennis Hopper who don't Yeah, I want to see Dennis operate in anything. Yeah, and and David Boreanaz, you know, he tries Really hard despite the movie being total dogshit, but he commits and you would figure because while I was watching this movie I was saying yeah, well, you know what? I You could easily do this as a series of movies and the crow comes and resurrects somebody different in each movie.
00:57:50
Speaker
And that's what they did in the comics, too. There are other comics, too, that went with the same approach. There are also a series of novels that also did that, where each one, they have a different person who's resurrected. Yeah. But you know what? The thing about Wicked Prayer that I think that they really missed the boat on is you've got David Boreanaz, right? He signed on to do this movie. David Boreanaz is known for playing an undead, tragic Avenger character.
00:58:16
Speaker
Why don't you have David Boreanaz play the crow? Maybe he didn didn't want to do it. Maybe this. Maybe, but it just seems so- Maybe they did hire him to play the crow, but then later he might've went to him and said, well, you know what? I want to do the bad guy instead. Maybe, maybe. It just seems like such a missed opportunity because Edward Furlong in this movie is just- He's terrible. He's awful in it. But David Boreanaz, like I could see him playing that that main character and he would have done a great job. So I thought that was kind of a missed opportunity there. And then you had the the TV show ah The Crow Stairway to Heaven, which lasted ah one season. It was like it was only like twenty two episodes. And they had um ah Mark Dacascos played Eric Draven in that. They remade the the story of the movie, except it ends, and Eric doesn't die at the end. Right? He keeps on going. And the whole series is about redemption. But it was kind of weird, because he doesn't really kill anyone in the show, because they had to worry about ah network TV ratings and all that kind of stuff. It was low budget, so... It was filmed mostly during the day, which doesn't work very well for the crow. So it's very much like one of those. It's unlike um one of those lesser known affiliate networks on the on Saturday afternoon type of shows. This sounds like this was one of those shows that came out during the big syndication boom where it was exactly. Yeah. When you turn on your TV on Saturday and Sunday afternoon back then, it was like, I mean, nothing but syndicated shows. That's what it was. You had like you had Highlander, the series.
00:59:50
Speaker
Yeah guys the series Hercules, Zena, Mortal Kombat. What was it there? There was a Tomb Raider knockoff. Oh yeah, Relic Hunter. Yeah, Relic Hunter. Yeah, Relic Hunter. There was another one. There was an Indiana Jones knockoff with set modern.
01:00:09
Speaker
day I think it was adventure something adventure unlimited or adventure incorporated or something like that. You had the the Pamela Anderson one VIP. Yeah, the Pamela Anderson. You had a man that there was a Robocop one prime director. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Robocop prime director. Yeah.
01:00:29
Speaker
Yes, it was like a whole slew of you. It was like somebody just said, OK, well, anything that we can get, we're going to take it and we're going to make a syndicated show out of it. Oh, yeah. And throw it up against Nancy. And it was kind of like, do you remember in the 80s when like they were making cartoons of everything? Like they had ah even R rated movies. They had RoboCop. You had Rambo Rambo. And they turned him into Saturday morning cartoons. Louis Anderson had a Saturday morning cartoon. MC Hammer had a cartoon.
01:00:58
Speaker
Yeah, a Hammerman, but where he had these magic shoes. Yeah, yeah, they talked and everything. I remember that show. Yeah, they talked. Roseanne Barr, for God's sake. yeah Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, Lil' Roseanne. Yeah, it was kind of like, it was a similar thing in the 90s then, where they had like, they were syndicating everything then. Gary Coleman.
01:01:19
Speaker
And it's Saturday morning. And for a while it was like, emy yeah I said, wait a minute, this is insane. It was like every comedian was getting what they had, the Ed Grimley one, based on the character that wasn't even gonna stand their life. You had ah what was Howie Mandel, you had Bobby's World. Yeah, Howie Mandel, yeah. Oh man, you had so many of those things. Oh, it was unreal. Yeah, it was like comedians for for a while there, they had their own, I mean, you know, Saturday morning show.
01:01:48
Speaker
there was ah There was a Knight Rider spin-off, too. Team Knight Rider. Yep. Team Knight Rider. See, they had all these likes, and the crow was one of them. And it was, you know, it wasn't like a lot of people will tell you it's a terrible show. And I rewatched it recently. And you you know what? It's pretty bad in places, but there's also some good stuff in it, too. I really liked Mark Dacascos. I think he's ah he's a decent enough actor. One of the things, though, you were talking about how Brandon Lee doesn't really do any martial arts in the movie. Well, in the series, Mark Dacascos really leaned into his martial arts background. And they kind of comment in the show where it's like, when did you learn martial arts? And he's like, well, I didn't, I just kind of know it now. ah Okay, we we'll go with that. That's a really should have had a bigger career and marked the Costco. So I like that. I like them too. um You know what, I actually interacted him with him fairly. ah and ah Very briefly, very recently, um because I was listening to the the Battle Royale audiobook, which If you've ever seen the movie, it's the greatest Japanese movie ever made. And the book is amazing too. And, um, to Costco's narrated the English translation. I posted on, uh, Instagram or some Instagram or Twitter or one of those saying like, you know, I'm reading the battle, listening to the Battle Royale audio book. Mark to Costco's does a really good job on the narration. He fucking commented on it. And he's like, thanks so much. Aloha. You know what? It is really, that is one of the most amazing things about social media now in that.
01:03:19
Speaker
You have people that you would never dream and your wildest imagination would answer you on Twitter or Instagram or even Facebook, and they do so? You know who follows me on Twitter? Who? Your dream woman. Pam Pam Grier follows me on Twitter, or at least she did at one point. I'm not sure if she still does, but but she started following me on Twitter at one point. She thanked me on Twitter. I sent her... Oh, really? Yeah, I sent her my yeah Foxy Brown review. I sent her a link.
01:03:49
Speaker
And you know, it wasn't nothing big. You know, know she just said, oh, that was such a nice review. Thank you very much. You know, and that was it. But I mean, hey, Pam Grier knows who I am now. that's that No, but really, you would be surprised at how many people I've written a review and I hear from the director.
01:04:09
Speaker
or I hear from some actor that was in the movie, you know, no big star, but somebody that was in the movie and I pointed out, you know, oh, you know, so-and-so did a nice role and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they'll say, oh, you know, thanks a lot, you know, for it. i said what That's how I met... the What's his name? Dave Cunt. Dave Cunt, I hope I pronounced his last name right. I know I'm going to mangle it, but he he wrote the movie Authors Anonymous. Oh, right, right. Yeah, I remember that movie. Yeah, ah yeah. and
01:04:41
Speaker
You know, we became friends over Facebook and when it came to Brooklyn, we met up, man. You know, we went out to breakfast every other day. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I mean, it's really remarkable that, yeah, people people will, end you know, I mean, the famous people, you know, they'll answer you. And it's, oh, thanks a lot. You know, yeah a few years ago I did this um this list article, like, you know, top five reasons that Angel was better than Buffy, because I just gone through a marathon of both of the shows after, you know, years of not seeing them.
01:05:11
Speaker
So I did this article and I posted on Twitter and Juliet Landau retreated. We ended up tweeting the article and following me because of that. Wow. Cool. Yeah. She played a Drew Silla on both those shows. Yeah. And yes, Angel is better than Buffy. Yeah. Sorry guys, but yeah it's just a fact.
01:05:28
Speaker
I like Buffy, don't be rude. Don't be rude. I love Buffy. I love Buffy, but I love Angel. Yeah, Angel, I think Angel took it a step higher. Yeah, he kicked it up a notch. Except for the fourth season, but less said about that one is the better. OK. Also, in the Crow TV show, Albrecht was a detective in that. And they had Mark Gomes played him. And I really liked the interplay. It's very different.
01:05:57
Speaker
from ah Brandon Lee and Ernie Hudson. Like Mark Gomes and Mark Dacascos, they have a very different working relationship. And it works very well for the TV show. And I like the way that they played off each other. Like their chemistry was one of the reasons that I kept watching the show. And the the tragic thing about the show is that eventually it started to find its feet in like the latter half of the first season. And then it ends on a cliffhanger. And then they decided not to renew this, renew it for a second season. ah I hate when they do that. And they tried. Like the it was ah Bryce Abel was the producer on that show who also did the Mantis TV show. Oh, my God. One of the most underrated TV shows of all time. Yeah, he did The Crow Stairway to Heaven and he tried really hard to get something else coming from it. Like he tried to get it done as a made for TV movie or something to wrap up the plot lines, but just they were never ever able to get anything out of it. Yeah, that's why a lot of times now I, you know, I really won't start watching a TV series until like the second or even the third season. Cause I'm really getting tired of being burnt with on these shows. And some of them I, you know, I'm saying, oh, this is really good and everything like that. And it's only one season and then they don't bring it back. So now I've been invested all all this time in the show and you're not bringing it back. Thanks a lot. Talking about the legacy of the Crow.
01:07:20
Speaker
They did try to make some other movies too. Like Rob Zombie at one point was going to direct a movie called The Crow 2037, World of Gods and Monsters. It was gonna be like an waste apocalyptic world and it was gonna be like lots of like fantasy, sci-fi. It would have been like Mad Max mixed with like horror movies and like monster movies with The Crow. I mean, it would have been, it sounds like it would have been absolutely batshit awesome. And they never did it because they thought, well, this is too. They eventually they said we were going to do it as a different something, its own property, because it doesn't really need the crow to to be done. It was for right for a while, it was going to be called like Black Rider X. But then I guess it eventually just got dropped completely, which is too bad because I really would have rather seen that than his um white trash horror movies. Rob Zalmy, I was just talking about this somebody the other day, you know what? He's kind of a hit or miss director with me, you know, when he's good, like, I like the Lords of Salem.
01:08:19
Speaker
Yeah. And ah ah what was the other one? The Devil's Rejects, which to me is probably his best movie, but like the Halloween movies was, cook you know, that was unnecessary. I mean, nobody really needed an origin story for Michael Myers. And then there is that nagging feeling that I always get that he just keeps making movies just to give his wife something to do. good yeah yeah Like I wish I would, I wish he would have made this movie. Cause he just keeps, he's really obsessed with white trash horror movies. Like I don't know what it is. But like he turned, he turned Michael Myers into, from a white trash family type of thing.
01:08:57
Speaker
when i first became acquainted with him. He was actually hosting on a turn of classic movies. He was hosting their underground series Friday nights where they were showing, like, all kinds of exploitation movies. And I was really impressed with his knowledge of film. Rob's only had some knowledge of film, period, not just yeah horror movies. And I don't think that he's really, you know, found that one movie that really and you know he'd be great but he's just in the water and put it that way and yeah yeah i did this chromium we i have no doubt that it would have been in if nothing else it would have been interest labor that way it would have been absolutely and it would have been problem a lot more interesting than the others who directed video movies they made they have tried to remake the crow on several times so um... sony has the
01:09:56
Speaker
has the distribution rights for it. Some guy named Samuel Hadida is financing the film, and they've tried this remake a few times. At one point, it was gonna be Mark Wahlberg was involved in it, another point Bradley Cooper, Luke Evans, Jack Houston, the most recent one, Jason Momoa. Ooh, okay.
01:10:18
Speaker
Now that's interesting. It would have been interesting because the director, who was ah Colin Hardley, um he said they were going to go back to the original comic and they were gonna make it they were going to try and make a new adaptation of the comic. They weren't going to try and remake the Proyas movie, which is how I would do it. if Because like I said, there's a lot of differences from the comic, so it would be interesting to do it that way. Okay, let's face it. Who could do, yeah I mean, listen, it's complete folly to try to remake what Alex Proyas did. You know, just go off and do your own thing and don't worry about trying to remake, because you know what?
Brandon Lee's Death and Impact
01:10:52
Speaker
If you're going to do that, then why not just get him back and say, listen, well, we want you to do this again. Well, Proyas himself, he said that he wrote an open letter on Facebook saying that it should never be remade. So he did like kind of like Harry Ells did with the Princess Bride recently.
01:11:07
Speaker
Well, you know what? In a big world, what they would do is that they would remake movies that have failed. Yeah. And I don't think that The Crow failed. It was just more, okay, let me put this way. If this was a movie that came out now, this would make $100 million at the box office the first weekend. Oh, easily. It was a movie that was ahead of his time. It was a movie that was definitely ahead of his time, just like Dark City was ahead of his time. There's some movies that, you know, just made at the wrong time.
01:11:37
Speaker
This was made at the wrong time. If the crow came out now in the current climate that we have where, you know, we're superheroes or more, because this is one of those move when it came out, nobody knew what to make of it. I mean, there's so many different things. It's an action movie. It's a revenge movie. I remember seeing the TV spots when this came out in the theaters and I'm just like, what is this?
01:12:00
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Nobody put the makeup. It was definitely, it was one of the, they didn't really know how to market this movie. And then you add in the fact that you've got the shadow of of Brandon Lee's death hanging over it as well. You had some people that went to see it primarily because they said, well, we're going to go see, cause this is the movie where the guy, you know, got killed. I mean, you know, I'm making it, but, but then again, you also, to for every person who went to see it because of that, you had two people who didn't go see it because of that.
01:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think now we should probably talk a little bit about Brandon Lee and the tragedy that happened on set. so um So how much do you know about what actually happened on the set? A gun was loaded and apparently the stunt people didn't have the right sort of blank cartridge that that was supposed to go into it and they substituted something else.
01:12:53
Speaker
It had the scene required for a gun to be loaded, cocked, and then pointed at the camera. And because it was a close-range shot, the dummy cartridges had to have real brass caps, but no gunpowder in it. After the cut, the prop master um dry-fired the gun to get the cock off, which knocked the the fake bullet into the barrel of the gun, and it got stuck there. He didn't realize it.
01:13:18
Speaker
So then the next day it was loaded with blanks. The script called for Brandon Lee to enter carrying a bag of groceries and inside the bag of groceries were squibs that were going to go off when um when the gun was fired to give the illusion that he was getting shot in an explosive blood pack. Michael Massey fires the gun and the blank prop ends up propelling the the real, the fake bullet out through and then then went and then it went through the grocery bag and hit Brandon Lee in the abdomen. When the director called cut and Brandon Lee is like keeling over on the ground. And everybody thinks he's, everyone gives him and ah ah a standing ovation cause they think he's still in character. Right. Yeah, exactly. They thought he was, you know, so Oh wow. He didn't break.
01:14:06
Speaker
But such was not the case. This is pretty much basically the same screw up killed another actor, John Eric Hexham. Oh, really? I don't know if you're familiar with the name. He know he did a he did a short little science fiction series called Voyager. But the time traveler. Oh, and he and then he did. And then he did another series after that called Cover Up, where he played a spy.
01:14:34
Speaker
It was him and some woman I can't think of a name right now, ah but they played spies and like their their covers was that they were fashion models. No. Yeah. And he was killed pretty much by the same accident that killed Brandon Lee. But here's the thing about Brandon Lee for the longest time, the rumor persisted.
01:14:57
Speaker
that he was he was killed on purpose because of his father. Right. Yeah. This is this long standing conspiracy. Theorists will find a conspiracy in anything. Right. It's unbelievable. And they think that like the triads were out to kill Brandon Lee. Yeah, supposedly Bruce Lee. yeah He was in trouble with like ah martial artists and Native land because they're upset that he was teaching martial arts, you know to Westerners period, you know, they were you know, they were Supposedly he was in trouble with the triads, you know ah Yeah, I mean there was a whole bunch of ah theories that were being flown that were being flown but then thrown around that You know Brandon Lee was you know killed by the triads or whoever, you know for what it was
01:15:51
Speaker
Imagine the real that his father had done. There's also a lot of myths surrounding Lee's death. Like one of the myths is that he actually died. He was killed in the the big shootout scene in the club. That big action scene, right? With all the guns going off. So one of the, one of the long standing. That was the scene where you got shot, but that wasn't it. It was actually one of the flashback scenes. And then another rumor that I've heard a lot is that The footage of him getting shot was used in the film, which it wasn't like the footage was developed because it was used as evidence in the investigation, but it wasn't. Obviously, they didn't actually use it in the final cut of the movie. Oh, no, no, no question. And yeah, there was I mean, there was an it there was an extensive investigation. I mean, that thing went on for years. Yeah, yeah. And the footage was destroyed after that. Yeah, right. I've heard that, yeah, that they destroyed that. You know what? Thank God they did, because i because I guarantee you that if the footage still existed, you go on YouTube now. and Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's just some things that you should not be distributed like that.
01:16:58
Speaker
No, I mean, you know what, but but there are some sick people in this world that wouldn't want to see that. But yeah, there's some things that you shouldn't say. Now, Brandon Lee actually wasn't finished filming the movie when he died. I believe that they used not only a stunt double, but this is like one of the first.
01:17:17
Speaker
films with the CGI right so the um the scene where he puts on his makeup that was a body double and the face in the mirror was lee's but that was computer altered to fit the shards and then that iconic scene where he's walking towards the window and the crows on his shoulder and the lightning flashes That's not actually Brandon Lee. yeah That's his face put on a a body double, which, you know, it it's incredible when you think about it, because that's such an iconic shot in that movie. And you think that, you know what, that really should have been him.
01:17:53
Speaker
um I mean, it is it's him in a way, but you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, yeah. That was actually 100% him. And actually, it was his family campaign to get the movie finished, because after his death, Croius is like, that's it. We're shutting down. We're not finishing this movie. His family, like his fiance, his mother, his sister, they campaigned. They're like, look, he really wanted to do this movie. He was so invested in it. it it would be It would dishonor his memory not to finish the movie. And as we have seen, they were right because here we are now. we're still And this movie is what? Like, what, like 30 years old now? 94? Yeah, yeah, wow. It's like 25 years old now. Yeah, 25 years old and here it is. We're still talking about it. It's still yeah in discovered. and And I have no doubt it's still going to be discovered another 25 years from now. Because if I have become a believer, it it is that good of movie. Seriously. There's now in addition to Brandon Lee, like Michael Massey who fired the shot, he stopped acting for a year after this movie. Like he was so traumatized by this and
01:19:09
Speaker
Then he did finally get back into acting. You know, he had a small part in Seven. He was in the Amazing Spider-Man movie. he had He was the guy at the end of the movie. And he was also in, um he had a few part, he was on a few episodes of Supernatural. But 12 years after the shooting, he still said that he had nightmares of it. Hey, listen, quite understandable. I mean, you know, even though- Well, then you had, well, Rochelle Davis, who played Sarah, she never acted again.
01:19:38
Speaker
she was so traumatized by the incident. Really? Yeah. Wow. See that I did not know. Okay. Yeah. But, but you know, some, but you know, some, that's understandable because you know, I can't even imagine being on a movie set and you know, somebody does get shot. And especially when everybody's cheering and applauding and you're thinking,
01:20:02
Speaker
that the guy is just staying in character, and he's really been shot. And I'm sure that you had some people that were saying, well, you know something? Maybe if I had moved a little quicker, if I had realized, I mean, know what was going on, yeah what was happening, I could have saved this life. You know, I'm i'm feeling really sure that there's a lot of people that that said, you know, that went through their mind.
01:20:22
Speaker
Yeah. Well, James O'Barr, who created the comic, like he says with the proceeds from this movie, from the profits he made of this movie, you know, he, he bought his mother a car and then he bought himself a surround stereo system. And then he donated the rest of it because it felt like blood money to him.
01:20:39
Speaker
a Okay, I understand your death. Again, that's understandable. yeah you know You don't want to feel like you're profiting from you know somebody's death, you know however accidental it was. And you may not feel like you were the cause of it, but still, you know you you don't want to feel like, okay, well, I'm making money from somebody dying. At least let me take the money and do something you know profitable.
01:21:04
Speaker
Now, there's something else about this movie, which you probably don't know, but there was originally supposed to be another character in the movie.
Skull Cowboy Character Discussion
01:21:11
Speaker
Another supernatural character, in fact. In the movie, Eric was originally supposed to have um a guide, a supernatural guide, who was called the Skull Cowboy. And he was this guy who had like, kind of like this... appearance of like a decaying corpse and he wore like a ah an old duster and like a cowboy hat and he was going to be like a ah supernatural guide for Eric who kind of explains things to him. In the the scene where
01:21:38
Speaker
um He kills Funboy, right? There's nothing on his arms, on ah on Eric's arms, right? Okay. But then the next time you see him, he's got electrical tape wrapped around his arms and his torso. And his torso, yeah. What happened was that scene, there's another part of that scene. So you see Eric picks up the syringe and then it cuts. And then you see um Grange come in and he sees Funboy on the bed with the needle sticking out of him.
01:22:06
Speaker
What was originally supposed to happen is, and you can see this on ah probably on the on the Blu-ray, fun boy gets up out of the tub. And he takes a straight razor, and he starts attacking Eric. And Eric lifts up his arms to defend himself, and he's cut, but the cuts aren't healing. Then Funboy grabs, um, he grabs like a bag of cocaine, takes like this big snort of cocaine, he's still going after him. And eventually Eric overpowers him. Now the thing is, the reason that the cuts didn't heal was because the Skull Cowboy plotline. The Skull Cowboy told him, you can't interfere in the affairs of the living, right? You're only here to avenge your death.
01:22:47
Speaker
So Eric getting involved with Darla and you know telling basically telling her to be a good mother, that was him getting involved in the affairs of the living. So because of that, he lost his powers when Funboy attacked him. And that's why after that, he's got the electrical tape around his arm. So it's this sudden change in the movie, which it looks awesome with having that electrical tape on there. It looks really good effect that adds the the character's overall look.
01:23:14
Speaker
But there's no real reason for it to happen in the movie. And it's fun you bring it up because. OK, I saw you had the electrical tape wrapped around him. And at first I just said to myself, OK, well, he probably did that to stop the bleeding from when. here But we have seen when he got cut and shot before wounds healed up, you say it is an awesome look.
01:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, so these scenes, I just looked them up, they are on YouTube, so you can look up on YouTube and you can see the the scenes with the Skull Cowboy. There's also another scene when um right before when the top dollar kidnapped Sarah, right? Eric goes to save her. And in front of the church, the skull cowboy appears before him. And he says, you know, you it's time for you to go. And Eric refuses, he says, you know, I can't, I have to save Sarah. And the skull cowboy warns him that then then you'll die.
01:24:09
Speaker
or you'll be damned or something like that. And so then, that's actually how Eric originally loses his powers, was because he was going after Sarah instead of ah instead of completing his mission. Because, yeah, because on Netflix, I'm watching it on Netflix, and it seems like he's just losing his power for no reason. there but But of course, me, I'm sitting there and I'm rationalizing it away because Bai Ling, she grabs the crow. Well, yeah, that's actually why they changed it because they thought having another supernatural character was too much for the movie. And they thought the character was a bit too expository. So they decided to cut him out.
01:24:49
Speaker
And then they put the focus on the crow being the source of his powers. So there's that scene when they're in the theyre in the car after the big shootout, and she says he has power, but it's power you can take from him. and He says the crow is his link. And then Grange says, so you kill the crow and you destroy the man. Ain't no something that actually works much better because this is a movie that, like I said before,
01:25:15
Speaker
You don't need a whole lot of explanation for this movie. And yeah, I think that having another supernatural character to come along and explain stuff would take. OK, because see me, I'm the type of person I don't mind sitting there and having to fill in the blanks. You know, so you don't you don't need every little thing to me. You know, leave some stuff for me to figure out. You know, make me feel like I'm part of the process of watching the movie. I know some people like I have every little thing explained and then not happy until, which is why I really have a problem with Star Wars fans in the last couple of years. You know, yeah, seriously, you know, I mean, I don't need to know where Snoke came from. I don't need to know what happened to the emperor. Really? Yeah. thank Thank you. You know, I you know, I don't need that. I don't need that every little thing explained. Leave some leave some for me.
01:26:14
Speaker
need to do and you know it's kind of like i i totally understand that and it it's kind of disappointing because the look was really awesome in fact i'm sending you some pictures of the character now so you can see what he looked like oh thank you so if you check your your skype chat you can have a look there oh my god yeah okay Now, that was a really awesome look, and they did a really good job with the makeup. And I actually haven't seen these scenes, which I just found out there on YouTube. I'm gonna be watching them and once ah once we finish up with this recording. On the one hand, yeah it it works so much better from a narrative standpoint not to have that character in the movie. On the other hand...
01:26:51
Speaker
man they did an awesome job in that design like this character i've had um like i told you about my idea for like uh old west supernatural gunfighter it's based on skull cowboy this image that's a power image that yeah now you can see that a lot of our work went into that character that wasn't just thrown together no no it was a lot of work now the character did appear So he was inspired by there's um in the original comic, there are a few scenes where you see a skeleton dressed in like ah wearing like a hat and a suit. So that was kind of like the inspiration, but he has no real role in the story. It's just kind of like an avatar of death in the in the comic. And then OK.
01:27:34
Speaker
So then they they made it into the Skull Cowboy act as kind of a mentor for Eric, and when they cut him out, but the character ended up being used in other stuff later. So he appeared in the TV show, The Crow's Stairway to Heaven, although he wasn't done up in makeup. He was just a regular guy who wore like a wore cowboy hat, and he carried like a like a skull keychain type of thing.
01:27:59
Speaker
Because then we're going to do all that makeup for him. And then he also appeared as a skeleton figure dressed as a cowboy in the in images. Crow comic book. What cowboy, though? And it's because the the original artwork here, let me show you the original one. It kind of looked like.
01:28:18
Speaker
ah Cowboy like it was so they decided to kind of lean into that. Here's the from the original comic. Oh, okay So it was just kind of like a symbol for death in the comic and he appears a few times. Okay No, no, no because I'm just saying because you know, like this is the city of And it just seems to me, okay, I'm seeing with, okay. I'm seeing with you, okay. Okay, this is the original artwork, right from the top. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So now I think what the backstory, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but if you look at the makeup, it looks like he's got, you know, ratty hair and decaying flesh. So I think is the idea is that this guy was a crow himself who got involved in the affairs of the living and now he's stuck.
01:29:02
Speaker
a okay yeah see i can go yeah see the guy who had the job hand and who messed up before. It's his job now to tell the guy, listen, this is what's going to happen to you. If you mess around with it, like just do what you got to do. Just do what you got to do to crawl back in your grave and everything will be fine. And in fact, in the sequel, the city of angels, the original way it was going to end was that Ash, who the Vincent Perez's character, he gave up his chance to see I can go yeah see the guy who had the job beforehand and to go to go back to the Land of the Dead after he finished his mission. So he did they were going to give him that ending where he he continues on after and he's still alive and he's still wandering the Earth. But then they changed it because they wanted to make it more like the original, which was, I think, a mistake. It would have been better if they had tried to do something different.
01:29:54
Speaker
That's the curse of Hollywood that they want to duplicate what ah succeeded so badly that they will sacrifice creativity to play it safe and say, OK, well, this weren't the first time. So, you know, right let's just do the same thing again instead of like you say.
01:30:11
Speaker
going off in a completely different direction, which is what you could do with a character like the crow. You could have conceivably any type of character be brought back to life and be, I mean, you know, by the crow and tell a completely different story and in each movie, and which i meant that you could even do it as a TV series every week. You know, somebody gets brought back from the dead or each season, do it, you know, like a season long story arc. Somebody gets, brought back from the dead and, you know, they did death to us, the death of a loved one or whatever. And you could have a whole variety of character. Yeah. You know, it's a cliche, yes, but sometimes cliches become cliches because they are true. but to like I think you're only limited by your imagination.
Comic Iterations and Initial Studio Plans
01:31:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And some of the the books and the comics, they've gone in interesting directions like um James O'Barr did two other comic books ah with this concept. One of them had a guy who was a Native American um and he was married to a white woman during and they were killed by a group of rebel soldiers.
01:31:25
Speaker
Then in the modern day is when he gets brought back and those soldiers had been reincarnated as a biker gang. So that's how they did that one. And then he did another one that was set during the Holocaust, which I haven't read that one, but they also had, there was another one, not all written were written by him, but there was another one where it was um a woman was resurrected. and ah There was another one where I think a child was resurrected at one point as well too. So they have gone in a lot of different directions and it's been been some pretty interesting takes. You could do one during the 60s. You could have a Martin Luther King type of civil rights leader get a sad back. Yeah, that would be awesome. So many different ways you could comment on like different things that have happened in history. There's so many different directions you can go in with that concept. No, but there's what I'm saying. You you know, you're only limited by I mean, you could conceivably go to any time.
01:32:20
Speaker
in, like, American history or even world history. Who say you got to go to Japan? You could go to Africa. You could go to Europe and you could, you know, because this is a supernatural creature. I mean, you know, the crow. So it's not limited by, you know, time or space.
01:32:37
Speaker
Well, you know, like the the Assassin's Creed games, right? They're all in different time periods. You could easily do that with a concept like the Crow. You could do it with multiple characters, multiple time periods. when for the I mean, the old, you could do the old west.
01:32:53
Speaker
You could have like, uh, you know, like, uh, remember when the Chinese, you can have one of them get killed. Oh yeah. The railroad. room Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah. You know, what have so much stuff. You can do that. Yeah. Yeah. So there's so, there's so much you can do so much. Now, um, do you know what the speaking of there's so much you can do? There's also some things you shouldn't do. So do you know what the original idea was that the,
01:33:20
Speaker
the studio execs had in mind for this movie when they first met with Obar? No, but i I can only guess. Okay. They were sitting at this meeting and someone suggests, look, we can do this as a musical and we get Michael Jackson to play the lead character. And James Obar, he heard this and he just bursts out laughing.
01:33:47
Speaker
And because he thinks the guy's making a joke and everyone else at the table, they're looking at him like he's out of his mind. So that was originally what they want to do. They wanted to turn it into a Michael Jackson musical. And then it was only when they hired ah Brandon Lee and David Proyas or Alex Proyas that they came in and they said, no, we're sticking to the original source material.
01:34:08
Speaker
And you know something, and no problem believing that because that's not the craziest story I've ever heard that, you know, like some brain dead suit. I mean, you know what to do because they have the only thing that they're looking at is what they can sell.
01:34:31
Speaker
Basically, that's all they're doing. And Michael Jackson was, of course, the number one star in the world at that time. And they wanted to put him in a whole bunch of different things, you you know, believe it or not. They wanted Michael Jackson to a whole bunch of different movies and different movies. and You know, at one point they wanted to do Green Lantern with um Eddie Murphy.
01:34:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And then later they wanted to do it with Jack Black. Yeah, for for the longest time, um Green Lantern was supposed to be a comedy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, here's an interesting piece of trivia about this, too. So you mentioned David Patrick Kelly from The Warriors. The Warriors was one of Brandon Lee's favorite movies. And so when T-Bird drives off the dock, right, and um Eric waves goodbye to him, right? Yeah. And he's opening, he's using three fingers to wave goodbye. Apparently that's a direct reference to Kelly's character, um ah very iconic and creepy taunting of the warriors with miniature bottles. Yeah, with the Coke bottles, with the small Coke bottles that he's- Yeah. Warming does come out to play. yay Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:35:45
Speaker
So that's, that's like, that was like a reference Brandon Lee threw in to the warriors when he was waving goodbye to David Patrick Kelly. See, now you want um see, now I got to go back just to see that again, to see him. You can't tell me these things. So when you tell me, you said that made me want to go back and watch the movie. see That doesn't give me excuse to go back a while. I gotta watch the whole movie. Just see that. They're probably only going to last about two seconds, but.
01:36:12
Speaker
It's things like that that we do love about movies like this. It's little things that you, you know, that you notice at first, but they enhance our enjoyment of the movie. First of all, I love but Patrick Kelly and anything. The guy is like a brilliant actor and he does. Well, he's a classic trained actor too. This character in it it in this movie, though, to be honest, he doesn't have a lot of screen time. Oh, no, no, not really. But he's got a lot of presence. Also, the guy who plays Tintin as well, he's got like a lot of presence in the movie.
01:36:46
Speaker
And again, he's another guy that doesn't have a lot of screen time, but everybody that's in this movie, in fact, they make the most of whatever screen time they have for however short however short of a time they're on screen. ah Sarah's mother, Darla, she's really not on screen all that much, but you remember her.
01:37:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. She's another one who's been in a bunch of different stuff, actually. Yeah, when I saw her, I, you know what, and I can't think of her name, but she's like one of these people. Anna Levine. Yeah, she's one of these people that when you see her, you say, okay, yeah. She was in Unforgiven. Huh? Unforgiven. She was the hooker who got her face cut. She was the hooker that got her face cut up. That's right. There you go. And she was also in True Romance. She played Lucy.
01:37:36
Speaker
OK, it's been a while. Seeing true romance, I'd have to watch that again. Yeah, I don't remember. I don't remember Lucy. but Yeah. But yeah, but she was in that as well. She was in Fatal Attraction. She played a secretary. She was she was an extra in Wall Street. um She played a bunch of characters on the Tracey Allman show. And she is one and she's one of these women that, you know, she's OK.
01:38:00
Speaker
Here's where I showed that I'm a completely sexist. She's not what you would call like a raving beauty, but there's something tremendously sexy about her. Yeah.
Revisiting 'The Crow' and Its Legacy
01:38:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. She's got this, there's this, there's this, there's this quality about her that's kind of rights i mean that's attractive. You know, you wouldn't look at, you wouldn't look at her and like say like,
01:38:21
Speaker
Who can I just pull out of my ass real quick? Like Angela Jolie. You look at Angela Jolie and say, oh, wow. You know, you look at this chick and you wouldn't say that. But the longer you look at her, the sexier she gets. All right. So that prettys think we're pretty much to the end. Do you have any final thoughts, talk about the crow? Only that. And I may have said this before. And if I did, folks, excuse me for repeating myself.
01:38:47
Speaker
But one thing I like to do is that I like to revisit movies that I made out of light the first time around I saw it or even the second time I saw it because I found that as I get older and my taste change that I can watch a movie later on that at first I discounted or didn't like or whatever and I find something new in it and I found something new in the crow, you know, like I said earlier, I haven't seen it in about 10 years but I saw it today and now appreciation and and respect for this movie in the way it tells its story. This is a movie, you know what? There's a whole bunch of movies that monitor.
01:39:32
Speaker
because they should sit them down in front and make them watch them before they make their movie. This is one of the movies that I would give to a novice filmmaker and say, you're watching this. This is how to tell a story. Yeah. You know, with a minimum of fuss. You know, you're just telling, story you know, um I wouldn't see ad Astra yesterday. The difference between these two movies, because Oh knows how to tell a story and it tells that story with a minimum of fuss with a member. It knows the movie. And it doesn't try to be any more than that. I think that's the that is the best and the highest compliment that I could pay any movie is that right. What it is and is and it is the best at what it's trying to be and it doesn't try to be anything more than that. That's what the crow is. It knows exactly the movie it is.
01:40:30
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. And it delivers. It does, it delivers. And you know like you said, it's very tight. it It never wastes your time, not for a second. No. And it's a movie that actually, because it doesn't waste a second on exposition and all that, it's a movie that really rewards multiple viewings, because you start noticing other things in the background.
01:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, and ah because I think after all of these little tidbits and everything like that that you told me, I think I'm going to give it a couple of days and then I'm going to watch it again. Go to our website. You know, you can um you can watch it with our affiliate link to Amazon and then we get a little bit of cash that I'm going to keep quiet from Derek. Oh, fair enough.
01:41:18
Speaker
And like I said, like this was a huge influence on me. I went as the crow for like five Halloweens in a row after watching this movie. right i I grew my hair out long when i was't when I was a teenager. Yeah, everything. You really loved it that much, huh? Oh, yeah, man. I was i was obsessed with this movie. You know how when you're ah when you're a teenager, like you get obsessed over like that one thing? It was this movie for a large part of my adolescence. And I can understand that because I saw those Star Wars with in my singing year of high and yeah that was it for me like I mean forget about it I was all in the Star Wars yeah you know and notice about the crow and that in the movie that I really I can't ever really imagine that I've heard anybody say that they don't like this movie. Everybody who's seen this movie loves, you know, everybody. And for the longest time, I, you know, I didn't dislike it, but I just didn't see what everybody else saw in it because everybody I know absolutely.
01:42:20
Speaker
They love the crow. They just don't love the crow. They love the crow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, if you haven't seen this movie, you you owe it to yourself to watch it. It's great. and It's a one of the early superhero movies that really elevates the genre to ah to a new level. Because, like, Darkman was the first R-rated superhero movie, but that was very, it had it was very tongue-in-cheek. This one, it has a much more, it's much more balanced throughout. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, there are adult themes in this movie that are handled and presented to us as if we are. You know, like, there are some superhero movies that say, oh, we have these adult themes in there, but
01:43:06
Speaker
It's not, they're more like a 14 year old idea of what an adult theme is. If you if that makes any sense. Right, right. yeah the The Mark Millar style of storytelling. Yeah, this is an adult movie. This is an adult superhero movie made for those real adults.
01:43:25
Speaker
ah Intelligent adults. It's an intelligent adult movie. Yeah, exactly. All right, so this week I chose the movie, like I i chose the crow for
Upcoming Episode on 'Swamp Thing'
01:43:35
Speaker
this episode. So that means we're tossing the ball back to you. Derek, what are we watching next?
01:43:40
Speaker
I don't know, you know what, I was thinking either Supergirl or Swamp Thing. Okay, those are some interesting choices. what anything I would say let's go with Swamp Thing because it's it's different from Supergirl's a bit too close to Superman, so let's go with Swamp Thing to vary it up a little bit more. You know, that's what I was thinking too, though, you know, since we did the Crow Act.
01:44:02
Speaker
Let's stay with that thing with, you know, superheroes that are a little bit off the beaten track. And it's been also like the crow. It's been about 10 years since I've seen Swamp Thing. So, again, this is a movie I like to revisit and see if my outfit has changed anything. And this is the one that Wes Craven directed, right? Yeah, this is the one with Adrian Barbeau and Louis Jardin. I think I've only seen this movie once and it was like on TV, like,
01:44:29
Speaker
a lifetime ago. So it'll be really interesting to go and and see it again. Right. That's what I'm saying. Cause this has been about like, two you know, like I said, You know what? It may have even been like 15 years since I've seen this. This has been a long time since I've seen this movie. Yeah. I'm going to head out to the video store, see if they got it at my local video store, which we still have video stores in Japan, believe it or not. No fooling. Yeah. The only video stores we got around here i do, which I'm also surprised about that there are a couple of our triple X video stores that are still hanging on.
01:45:02
Speaker
We had some of them. They've got a triple X section in the video stores here, too. There's a triple X um video store. As a matter of fact, it's not too far from the micro center where I go to because I've got a micro center about 20 minute drive away from me. And it's on the same way. No, it's not the same block. It's across the street. Yeah, it's across the street from the micro center. I go to. So yeah, this, this will be really interesting because I actually just finished reading about a few months ago. I finished reading the Alan Moore saga of the swamp thing for the first time. So yeah, I'm i'm kind of looking forward to this. And, um, especially since now I'm going to confession right here and I'm just going to leave it with y'all folks for now. Would you believe I never read a swamp thing coming? No, shit, really. yeah I have never read a Swamp Thing Con. Not one single issue of a Swamp Thing Con. The only way I know the character, I know it from this that one movie. That's it. I know it's a comic book, but I've never read so much of a single issue. Now, the Alan Moore run is is classic. It's really good. you You should definitely track that down at some point. And don't ask me why I've never read it. It's not I have any version to the character, you know, but it's just, and I love Alan Moore. It's just that for some reason, I've never, you know, I've never said, you know what, I have to read Swamp Thing. Well, you know what, I can understand that. Cause I've read the first volume like years ago, but I just never got around to picking up the rest of them. And then, um then I picked them up when Comixology had a Vertigo sale and I picked up all, all the entire, so the entire run.
01:46:40
Speaker
But yeah, up until, you know, like I just said, like a few months ago, I finished reading it. And that was like the first time I'd read it all the way through. A lot of DC supernatural characters. I've never really been interested in that side of the, you know, I mean, like I've read Doctor Strange, I've read, you know, The Phantom Stranger, but stuff like, you know, Constantine. No, I've never been, no, I've never, I've never read a single issue of that. Really? The Constantine Swamp Thing, I've never, you know, Yeah, no, never. For some reason, that's never interests me. That's interesting because you like because you're a Doctor Strange fan, aren't you? Yeah, I read Doctor Strange. You like the Marvel the Marvel mystical stuff. You don't lean as much into the DC stuff. I read The Phantom Stranger. Oh, OK. You know, back in the I think was I think was the early 70s when he had a brief friend, Jim Aparo. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. Through the comic. And yeah, and I read The Demon.
01:47:36
Speaker
you know jack cur Jack Kirby's demon. But yeah but like outside of that, for some reason, I've never really been interested in you know the mystical, magical you know kind of characters. they've no you know They've never done anything for me. That's interesting. Don't ask me why. I never knew that about you. That's yeah that's interesting. okay so this will yeah this will be ah So I'll be coming at it with more of the knowledge of the comics then for this next one.
01:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, and mike and my knowledge of the comics is not even that extensive to begin with. So so both of us are going into this a little bit blind. As a matter of fact, now I want to read the comic now. I don't want to read it now until I've seen the movie. You know, I want to watch the movie again because it's going to be talking about the movie. Yeah, I don't want to bring all the back.
01:48:24
Speaker
Right, right. To the movie. I just want to watch the movie and discuss the movie as the movie on its own terms. Right. OK. So that's what we'll be doing next time. um In two weeks, join us again. We'll be talking Swamp Thing. Thanks so much for listening, as always, guys. you know All the support you've been given has been wonderful. ah One thing you can do that would help us out immensely is go to Apple Podcasts and leave a review for the for the show. Because those reviews we can use that to get absolutely we can get sponsorship for the podcast And then you know I can hide that money from Derek a little bit more and and I can start building up my retirement You're learning key
01:49:11
Speaker
And business will have money. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. All right, SuperheroCinephiles.com. You can find links to where you can rent these movies or buy them on Amazon. We get a little kickback if you do that. Apple Podcasts, go and leave a review. ah Twitter, we're at SuperCinemapod. Facebook page, Facebook dot.com slash SuperheroCinephiles. And now we've got a Facebook group, SuperheroCinephiles on Facebook group. So if you go,
01:49:39
Speaker
You can find the link from the Facebook page or you can just search for it. And Derek and I are on there. We're posting stuff about superhero movies. Derek will probably be posting some more of his superhero reviews and movie reviews in general. And yeah, we've got a few good people already joined up with the group. Oh, a lot of good people. Yeah, a lot of good people have been known for years and no one I'm thinking I will most likely in the next couple of days sit down after I watch it again. I'm going to give it a couple of days and I'm going to let it marinate that. I'm going to watch it again. I probably of the crow. And once I do, I will post it up, you know, for everybody to read. And if you guys have never read Derek's reviews, they're awesome. He goes really in-depth, just like the kind of stuff we talk about here, but um in written form. And it's really insightful commentary. You gotta check him out. Thank you. Okay. ah Do you have anything else you wanted to plug right now or you all set are you good for this week? I'm good for this week. ah The next one we're going to be doing is going to be in October, so I definitely will have something to plug then. Okay, sounds good. I'm going to wait till the next episode. Okay, sounds good. if By the time this episode drops, um my other podcast, Japan on Film, will be back up with ah
01:51:02
Speaker
Third season, and in that episode, I'm talking about Battle Royale, which I mentioned earlier is the greatest Japanese movie ever made. Oh, cool. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, you'll definitely want to listen to that. as student By the time you can hear this, it will be up on JapanOnFilm.com. So go ahead and check that out.
01:51:20
Speaker
because you were the guy that got me to watch that movie. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So be interesting to see how you look at it after you listen to that, because my opinion on it changed after living in Japan for so long, because I first time I watched it was before I even came here. And then I didn't watch it again until last year. So it gave me a whole different perspective on it. Interesting. I would do definitely be interested in hearing what you got to say about it.
01:51:46
Speaker
Again, thanks so much for listening, guys, and we'll talk to you next time. Okay, folks. Good night. God bless. Thank you.
01:52:02
Speaker
or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superherocinephiles at gmail dot.com. Or you can also visit us on the web at superherocinephiles.com. If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners. You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of pheasantlionstudios.com.