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Ranking the DCEU
282 Plays8 months ago
Now that the DCEU is officially over, how do the individual entries stack up? Justin De Voe makes his debut on the show to go over a decade of DC films, from Man of Steel to Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. We discuss the origins, the evolution from the Snyderverse into something more fractured, and rank each film. And you might be surprised where we landed on some of these.
Listen to Justin on the (Not So) Secret Dad's Business podcast and check out his cosplay on Instagram.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Format
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine.
Special Episode Focus: DCEU Complete
00:00:19
Speaker
And, you know, usually we talk about individual movies, but from time to time we do special little topic episodes. And this one is kind of a mix of both.
Guest Introduction: Justin DeVoe
00:00:28
Speaker
We're going to be talking about the entire DCEU. Now that it's finally completed with the release of Aquaman the Lost Kingdom.
00:00:37
Speaker
And for that, I wanted to bring on someone who I know has got some different opinions than I do on this. And for that, I brought in Justin DeVoe. Justin, how you doing today?
00:00:46
Speaker
What's up, man? Dude, I've been hearing you on Anthony's show for so long, and I have a tendency to like skip around. Not like, cause it's not like you have to listen to him in any order anyway, unless he's doing like, you know, the crisis stuff. But usually I listen to like Dr. Bill's and stuff. I look for yours. And it's not saying like, I don't like the rest of the guests, but some people just have more energy for shit like this. It's like yours is always the one I went to. And then when I saw that Anthony did the ranking thing and you're like, I'm looking to do it. I'm like, fucking yeah, man. Like I mean, of course, that'd be awesome.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, well, right back at you, because I've been listening to you on Anthony's show for a while as well.
Debate on Zack Snyder's Films
00:01:20
Speaker
And that's how we met, was through the Facebook group that he's got set up there. And even though I don't always agree with you guys when you're talking about the Snyder stuff, you bring such a passion to your discussions, and you're pretty insightful of it. And there are other things that, just like I've joked about with Anthony, that there are some times when I'm like, write 100% in sync with him. And then he says something else, and I'm just like,
00:01:42
Speaker
That is the complete opposite. How did that happen? Yeah, how did he get to like 90% of the voting and fucking took it right? And it's the same thing with a lot of stuff you say a lot of times. I think 80, 90% of the time, yeah, right on.
Constructive Film Criticism
00:01:55
Speaker
I am completely insane. And then there's just that little bit. I'm like, wow. I don't know how we diverge so much in our opinion of that.
00:02:03
Speaker
But I think that's what would make this fun because most of the people I've talked about the Snyder films with Evan more on my side more of the More of the not so keen on them. Whereas you I know I mean you're the episode when you talked about Zack Snyder's Justice League with with Anthony, I mean that was
00:02:21
Speaker
you brought a lot of emotion to that discussion. And that really, and when I listened to that, I'm like, Oh, wow, you know, I can I can really kind of see like where he's coming from with this.
Social Media's Impact on Film Opinions
00:02:31
Speaker
And so that was, so it's always interesting to have those kinds of discussions. Yeah. And that's the important behind
00:02:37
Speaker
having a conversation about something and just hate watching it or hate posting about it or whatever. Even if ours are top to bottom, completely fucking different, it doesn't matter. We're just having a conversation about it and that's what makes it fun. It's not fun when someone's like, this fucking sucks. Well, what do you bring into the table besides this fucking sucks? Because if this fucking sucks is all you're bringing, your opinion is nonsense.
Evolving Opinions on Films
00:03:00
Speaker
As long as you're not backing it up, I don't wanna hear anything you have to say.
00:03:04
Speaker
Well, also, too, and I think, you know, this is kind of like the blessing and the curse of social media because, you know, obviously, if not for social media, I wouldn't have met you. I wouldn't have met Anthony and gotten to know you guys. But but also because of social media, it's you know, it amplifies the worst aspects of both sides. So like, I mean, I mean, most of the pro Snyder people I saw on on social media were like the worst fucking people imaginable. And then.
00:03:28
Speaker
And then, and I remember when, you know, and we'll talk about this when we get into more of the movies, but with Man of Steel, my first impression coming out of it was like, I don't know how I feel about that. And then being around people who had such a negative view of it kind of really amplified the negative parts of it in my own opinion. And so it wasn't until like, years later, I was able to have like a little bit more of a nuanced view of it. Yeah, I think you have to watch things a couple different times, right? One when it comes out, usually,
00:03:53
Speaker
in that position, I'm like, everything's great. Everything's a fucking 10. Why did this movie get this shit? Because I'm just excited about being up there. Then as soon as you talk to people who have an opposite view of yours, you're like, Oh, wait, maybe I was wrong. And then like, three months down the road, you watch it again, you're like, No, no, so it's kind of like, through osmosis, through like other fucking people, you're like, Oh, yeah, you know, they were right about that.
Justin's Strong Opinions on Thor: Love and Thunder
00:04:14
Speaker
But I don't think
00:04:14
Speaker
much changes from your original view on things. You might tweak it a little bit, but I think most of how you came out of something is kind of how you're going to feel about it. Like for instance, fucking Thor loving thunder suck dick and it will continue to do so in the most terrible way possible. I'm not even talking about like romantically sucking a dick. I mean, like this thing is, it's like a lepers penis. Like it's always going to be bad. And everyone's like,
00:04:41
Speaker
And even afterwards, when I tried to find something like that little nut was, but it didn't matter. I always went back to that original, like, this is a fucking blasphemy of two of probably the coolest storylines as of recent history, right? The Jane Foster and Gore was fucking awesome. And they knew both of them to make it like 120 minute joke about goats.
Revisiting Films with New Perspectives
00:05:04
Speaker
So it still went back to my original thing where I'm like, this is terrible. So I think you can clean cool stuff from people. But I think most of the time your original idea is kind of where it's going to sit. I think so too. I mean, I have come around on a lot of stuff that I saw. And I will use this example when we start getting into the rankings of Constantine. Like first time I saw that movie, I absolutely hated it. But then years later, I watched it. And I was able to divorce it from the character of John Constantine. I'm like, oh, you know what? Actually, this movie is pretty damn cool.
00:05:32
Speaker
So I have had that experience a lot too. Or like, you know, my favorite example is Batman and Robin, which I hated for years. And then I rewatch it again. And I'm like, actually, you know, when you look at this as, you know, a modern day version of the 60s. Yeah. And it kind of works that way. I'm like, okay, yeah, I can kind of dig this. There's obviously there's still gonna be problems with it. Like, I still think Chris O'Donnell is a pain in the ass, but yeah.
00:05:54
Speaker
But you know what, the neon fucking bad guys in the overly dramatic scenes, that was comic book story in that time. If anything, it was pretty fucking comic, it was pretty comic book accurate, man. Instead of just Harvey Dent being half dark with the head, he had this fucking blacked out purple and pink suit on with the crazy hair. I'm like, look at comic story in that time. A lot of them were fucking drawing him like that. So I don't know, I thought that was pretty fucking accurate.
Justin's Background & Love for Comics
00:06:22
Speaker
But we're kind of getting off into the rails a little bit right from the start, but let's tell people a little bit about yourself. I'm a teacher. I just got married again for the second time. Yes, congratulations. Anthony came to the wedding, so it's your only shit. Again, a bunch of people I met.
00:06:38
Speaker
through Anthony like you know you Sean and all the guys fat moose and stuff um i was in the comics when i was about five or six my dad was an alcoholic so he would drop us off at the local comic book store while he went to go drink and it was great because we just walk around fighting he'd come back we didn't know fucking what was going on but that's how i found my love of reading too because i didn't want to go to school like school wasn't fascinating to me and then i started to read comics and and
00:07:02
Speaker
and my lexicon grew because of comic books because if you look at the statistics at least a majority of them you will learn like 10 times more unique words in a comic book or a graphic novel than you would in your run-of-the-mill fucking school book that's out there.
00:07:16
Speaker
So then I started doing better at school because of this. Because I was like, well, I'm reading all the same stuff. It's still a plot. There's still suspense. There's still all that. Why can't I just apply it to here? So I've had a poll list somewhere since I was like seven.
Comics as a Tool for Literacy & Personal Growth
00:07:33
Speaker
And then there was large gaps in the middle where I was like, I don't want to collect comics anymore because it got too fucking expensive.
00:07:39
Speaker
I'm gonna continue to love the mythos right so I did that um and then after about with alcoholism went to rehab came back out and I was like well now I want to do the cosplay thing but I want to do it like big so I got to pull this over it fucking Sean's and my
00:07:54
Speaker
My year long goal was to be like, I'm gonna do a logo because I've done it before rehab and I was very skinny because I didn't know how to do body stuff. And I was like, I'm gonna do it this time and I'm gonna do it bigger and better. And then I did and then that was kind of like the goal for that was the reinvention and shit, get my mind straight.
00:08:11
Speaker
But comics have always been a part of everything I've done and then you find out cool people that you're involved with like comics to like method man's a Huge fucking comic book person and you know, of course, I'm from Jersey. So there's the Kevin Smith thing and shit like that I know Mike over at the stash So it's really cool when you meet somebody who looks like me It looks like you or looks like this person or it looks like someone you've never even known they're like
00:08:32
Speaker
I see you got that fucking shirt on. You like that one? I'm like, I fucking love that one! And then you just went to, like, you know, nerds automatically. So it's like, I will wear it on me, right? Like, I'll wear the fucking custom jersey or I'll wear it like the Wonder Woman hat or whatever. People are like, hmm. But then I like it when you're just standing in line and no one has any idea what's going on. They make mention of something. And you kind of have this, like, instant kinship. If you meet them in person, we know if you meet them online, they're fucking true. That's a different story, yeah.
00:09:01
Speaker
No, that's so true. A lot of similarities in our stories. I mean, it's tragic about the impetus for you getting into the comic store in the first place, but aside from that, I had kind of the same experience where I didn't really like a lot of the books they were giving us in school, but I love comic books.
00:09:19
Speaker
my parents they're just they would just kind of like roll their eyes but they're like all
Advanced Vocabulary from Comics
00:09:23
Speaker
right whatever they they wouldn't like you know discourage it but they weren't exactly enthused by it but you also mentioned the lexicon thing and that that's so true my you know my late co-host Derek he used to say that um
00:09:35
Speaker
when he was in school, he would use these words in his essays and stuff for school. The teacher would be like, where did you learn that word? And he's like, well, I got it from Mighty Thor. I got it from Avengers. And they'd look at him like, OK, yeah, you're full of shit. And he's like, no, that's really where I learned it from. It's so weird that you mentioned that I wrote an essay and used the word vehemently. And I think I was, I don't know, fucking sixth grade, seventh grade. And my teacher was like, where did you get that from? On the cover of a Lobo comic, it said, vehemently not for children.
Realism in Comic Book Storytelling
00:10:03
Speaker
And I looked it up. I was like, that sounds like the coolest fucking word ever. So I started using it. So it's so weird. It was like the same thing. Every, you know, new, like, like, interesting and not and not like prosaic word that I know comes from, you know, reading a comic book. And yeah, like, of course, like I'm reading a psychology book or something for school, a lot of that's from that. But even some of the facts that they use in comic books now have to be relatively close to facts. Like,
00:10:28
Speaker
when Harley Quinn did a standalone book where Joker's a young kid and he was just abused. She has these like small pieces where she uses like actual psychological terminology. So it's not just like, we got to go get the fucking incinerator rain. Like, it's not like, come on, chattel, it's not like that anymore. People actually have to use real science, which I always thought was really cool. But I'm like, damn, how smart is motherfuckers writing like Fantastic Four and shit? I'm like, I'd wrap my head around the fake version, let her own a fucking legal burden.
Stigma Around Comics and Tattoos
00:10:57
Speaker
Yeah, it is so weird now you look at a lot of the the comic writers now and you compare into like back in like the golden age and stuff and it's like how Immensely educated a lot of them either self-educated or or professionally educated too. So yeah, there's a lot more There's a lot more sophistication in these in these stories and I think a lot of people realize I mean and I always when people always ask me about My politics is I'm you know an unabashed progressive work, but I come from a very conservative family like where'd you get that from? Like I got it from comic books. I read x-men
00:11:30
Speaker
And people still have that weird, like, aren't those for kids? And I'm like, there's no way to break that stigma. It's like being heavily tattooed, man. Everyone's got a motherfucking tattoo now, especially because numbing cream is an actual thing that doesn't ruin your body, right? But
Influence of Comics on Political Views
00:11:44
Speaker
people are still gonna view it a certain way. There's just no way to get rid of that. It doesn't matter who, it doesn't matter how much money Jim Lee brings in, it doesn't matter how many fucking
00:11:52
Speaker
stars and, you know, Henry Cable's not only at this fan, but he's a Warhammer fan. It doesn't matter. People are always gonna be like, that's weird. Like metal music, right? They're always gonna be like, can you even understand what they're saying? Why is that still the fucking argument? Like 40 fucking years later, I'm gonna give a fuck what they're saying. If I do, I'll open up the thing and I'll read the lyrics. But it just seems like a lot of those stigmas, particularly in comic books, are never gonna go away. It's always the nerdy kid, the fat guy with the neck beard, the fucking, like, I don't know, man. And it's not,
00:12:21
Speaker
It's like they don't even want their mind changed. So I'm just like, yeah. I mean, it's funny when I, you know, I had my wedding last year and my wedding, one of my my one of my buddies, his he brought, you know, his wife and his family came and his wife is, you know, pretty heavily tattooed. And afterwards, my mom was like, she's very unique, isn't she? That was like her nice way of saying like, I don't know why she has all those tattoos. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, but she's also like the sweetest woman on earth. So
00:12:51
Speaker
So today we're going to be talking and you kind of touched on why you got into comic books and all that, too. Tell us a little bit about your your Lobo cosplay, too.
Challenges & Rewards of Cosplay
00:13:00
Speaker
That was the well, again, it was kind of the heart and brainchild of getting right after rehab. And I was like, all right, well, my mind is right spiritually. And so I'm good because I left 27 days in the rehab because I got the original covid 19, like the one that was killing people.
00:13:16
Speaker
23 days before I got my coin, I helped the guy up the stairs. I knew I got it from him because everyone said he came in with it. Helped him up the stairs because he had one leg. He was a vet. Helped him upstairs get the chapel during one of the big meetings. Next day, dude, I woke up and I was like, whatever the fuck it is, I got it. Because it felt like nothing like I ever felt before. So 27 days in, they send me home and they're like, you got it. So like, all right, I guess I'm staying here. The hospital's like, hey, fucking stay here. I'm like, what do you mean I'm staying here? Like, can you breathe? I said, yeah. They're like, then you're going to fuck home.
00:13:44
Speaker
So I got home and you know, thankfully after like fifth because I did, I did have a bout with not being able to breathe that was scary as fuck man. My house wasn't that big. I walked like nine steps to the kitchen had to take a knee. I'm like, I'm at a fucking breath like this I'm gonna die, which is fucked up, man. I just went to rehab to get better. But so that passed. I was like, right, my head's in the right space.
00:14:07
Speaker
my spirit, my emotions in the right place, how can I get in shape now? Because it wasn't just like, I love going to the gym when there's a reason. It can't just be like, I want to look good in my shirt off, because I rarely take my fucking shirt off anyway. And besides, I'm heavily tattooed. You can't tell I have abs regardless. And I was like, I'm going to work on the logo of things. I did it in 2017. And I was like, this time I want to be bigger and better. I'm going to get people to make the stuff. I'm going to get some upgrades. Like my most recent upgrade was the shin guards and the knee guards behind me by Josh from the palette as a cosplay. It was like him and his mom
00:14:36
Speaker
are the fucking sweetest people on the planet. And I was just like, I'm just gonna keep that in mind. If I can keep that in mind, it'll be like, no, I gotta go, right? I gotta go, Jim. I can't take a fucking day off because that's gonna be the why at the end. And then everything, much like any lifter, just goes in a big cycle, except my beach season is October. So when I get cut and shit like that and start to get vascular for October, because that show season, during the summer, I don't fucking care what it looks like. I'm
Community Bonds Through Comics
00:15:02
Speaker
married, man. I'm 43. I don't get my fucking, when my wife's fucking
00:15:07
Speaker
What do I care if some fucking chick by the pool thinks about me? Like, I got to go home to her. Like, that's even fucking cool.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yeah, so that's how I got into it. And then I found out the dangers of alcohol based body paint, it don't fucking come off. So I've had to find like 19 different ways to take it off. And still like a month after two months after a convention, there'll still be some beyond my my elbow. But it's a labor of love. Because once you get stopped, like at one point, it took me like 45, I'm not kidding 45 minutes to get to the front gate to the first floor of the convention floors, I got stopped that much like this.
00:15:40
Speaker
This is why I don't care going to gym and busting my ass and you know and crying during like set five like I don't care like this is it so comics kind of made the the mind body and spirit all come together and that's what I was talking to Anthony man like people could talk all the shit they want like oh why aren't you just stuck into something regular like sports? I'm like what were you guys burned down your city after your team wins? And that's what they were?
00:16:04
Speaker
So yeah, so it was cool that that was the thing that brought it all together. And the cosplay thing is great. Like I'll never go to a convention not dressed up. It's just so much Mickey Mouse for a day. Yeah, I mean, I've you know, I've been to a bunch of cons and stuff and I have such immense respect for what you guys do with the cosplay stuff because you guys like you guys go all out. Like there is such intense dedication with that. And it's like me, I'm walking around a convention floor in shirts and shorts and a t-shirt and I'm dead by the end of the day. And I'm like, I don't know how you guys do it.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah. I used to have legit fucking motorcycle boots that I've walked around in for fucking three days straight as Lobo. When I got home, I was like, I ain't going to be able to do this the next day. But the adrenaline spikes, right? So Josh made me the knee and shin guards. He was like, what do you want for your feet? Dude, he fucking made Crocs to look like the bottom of Lobo's
00:16:56
Speaker
boots that look like metal with spikes. So I put the thing on slip right in. He's like, how do they feel? I'm walking on a cloud, motherfucker. It was awesome. I mean, we find little ways to be more comfortable. That's cool. That's cool. It's a nice little insight. Yeah. And I never really considered like all the like the behind the scenes stuff of cosplay stuff. But then Anthony had the Superman cosplayer on his show. I'm forgetting the gentleman behind the caper of some. Yeah.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah, but the guy does. Yeah, that that I wasn't even that was an episode. I'm like, I think maybe I'll skip this one, but I had like I had like nothing else on my podcast feed. I'm like, I'll listen to it. And my God, that guy had me in tears with the stories he was telling. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's amazing. Like I can't even imagine what you feel like.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah, and the joy you bring to other people. And you know, it's not normally kids. Like, yeah, like dads will shove their kids aside to be like, take the picture of me alone, Lucas, you know, it's older kind of fucking dude thing. I'm like, that's even fucking cooler,
Diverse Comic Book Interests
00:17:52
Speaker
man. He's like, take my picture of the kids seven. He doesn't know how to work the fucking camera, but the dad's excited. The big part.
00:17:59
Speaker
Alright, so now we're gonna be talking about the DCEU. So and I mostly know you from Anthony show, but I know like just because you're on Anthony show doesn't mean you're necessarily more of a DC guy because you know, I've been around there a few times. I'm more of a Marvel guy. We had Scott, we had Scott on here earlier, he was more of a Marvel guy got get into stuff. So where do you usually lean? Do you lead more Marvel or DC in terms of comics? Honestly, I don't I pull stuff.
00:18:23
Speaker
Like right now, honestly, some of the best stuff I'm reading has nothing to do with them. I know Ranvee does a great job, but Ranvee does a great job on everything he writes, right? And the team that's on Guardians of the Galaxy, who's also the team on the Outsiders, is also great. But Kill Your Darlings is image. That's fucking amazing. The Deviants, that's...
00:18:41
Speaker
image. That's fucking amazing. There's another one called Harriet Tubman. Yo, shout out to my boy fucking um, I forgot I kind of fucking look it up. Of course, I'm gonna forget. Harriet Tubman Harriet Tubman Demon Slayer is the fucking dopest book out right now. I think his name is
00:18:56
Speaker
D crown sin he write so he's got a book out called Harriet Tubman Demon Slayer and he's the nicest fucking dude in the world and that's That's it. Yeah. Um, he's he's such a fucking great dude and he's nice as shit. Um, so honestly I will read whatever Character I like but I will bail if I'm not really into the writing like I fucking hate Damien when I stop dude after after number four
00:19:23
Speaker
I'm like getting a fuck off this train with this fucking pampered bullshit thing and fucking Bruce act like a big dummy I was I can't fucking have that but like so Avengers is great. Like I'm into events I can't wait for them to reboot the x-men thing cuz the whole fucking oh, there's a tree and there's fucking record We live on Mars. Yeah, I want to go back to terrestrial stuff But honestly a lot of stuff that I'm reading right now. There's one called um, I
00:19:47
Speaker
Guma, G-U-M-A-A. Dude, it's incredible. There's so much stuff that's not happening with the big two. There's a lot of good stuff happening there, but a lot of the best stuff I'm reading right now is nothing to even do with them, man. I'll put up a list. It's fucking great, man. There's a lot of other good shit out right now, but I'll read whatever.
Personal Preferences in Comics
00:20:07
Speaker
awesome cool cool um yeah i'm just curious just because um i know people have like different you know lean different ways when it comes to now yeah yeah i'm yeah i'm i love dc stuff uh i love image stuff too love but i do tend to like marvel's what got me into it so it's still kind of like you know i kind of lean a little bit more towards marvel whenever whenever i get the choice of those two um
00:20:27
Speaker
Now I know you're definitely a Snyder fan like we kind of mentioned I'm obviously not as much so when it came to doing this ranking thing I was kind of thinking about like what kind of criteria I'm gonna use so I decided I'm going to try something different because I've talked about these movies from the
00:20:43
Speaker
the source material standpoint, whatever I've talked to. We've covered all the Snyder films at various points throughout this show. So I decided when I go back, I'm like, I'm going to watch these movies and I'm going to approach them just like I approached Constantine on those repeat viewings. I'm going to divorce it from the source material, just kind of evaluate it just on its own. So I'm thinking about things like how does it hold together as a story? How are the performances? How does it look? And how rewatchable is it? How many times do I think, man, I want to sit down and I want to watch this thing again and again and again.
00:21:14
Speaker
like
00:21:33
Speaker
of like maybe three. I was like, enjoyability, rewatchability. Yes, a comic book movie as a whole, but you can't be like, well, it's, it's divorced from guy, it's else worlds, everything's gonna be fucking divorced. Right, right. It can't do it exactly how you see it. So my ranking system, very similar to the one that you use, mainly with storytelling as the number one. So I'm a literature guy, I'm an English teacher. So mainly that was like the number one approach to it. And just how much I enjoyed the fucking flick to
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same here.
DCEU Films Discussion & Ranking
00:22:05
Speaker
And same here with the literature major stuff too as well. And also too, like, because when these movies came out, right, WB was saying like, this is like the only version of Superman you're getting. This is the only version of Batman you're getting in live action. And now, you know, now we got, we got Tyler Hoechlin on Superman and Lois. We're getting Superman legacy. So now I can go back and I can approach these with a different eye, just like I did with like the Batman and Robin. I'm like, okay, well, this is not my Batman, but it's a Batman and I can enjoy it based on that.
00:22:32
Speaker
So I think that's kind of the approach I'm doing. And we're also doing something a little bit different. Instead of going in our ranking order, we're going to go in the release order. So we'll talk a little bit about these movies when they came out. And we can also kind of chart the evolution of the DCEU as it went about. So starting off right from the top, we got Man of Steel in 2013. Zack Snyder obviously directed that one. And
00:22:58
Speaker
It's fun. I told this story before, but this summer, this was the summer of 2013. Yeah. And I, my expectations for this summer was the complete opposite of what I came out feeling. Cause that we had three big comic book movies. We had Iron Man three, we had Man of Steel and we had the Wolverine.
00:23:14
Speaker
my expectations going into that summer, like Iron Man 3 is gonna be the best movie of the summer. Man of Steel is gonna be a close second, and the Wolverine will be kind of a distant third. It was almost a complete inverse of that though, after I saw all those three movies, because Man of Steel, it was more of like a distant second, where the Wolverine, I enjoyed so much, except for the third act, but that's another story. And Iron Man 3, I hated it at the time. I've mellowed on it since, but at the time I just did not like it.
00:23:43
Speaker
So I had a completely different impression going into that summer and coming out. What were kind of your feelings going into Man of Steel?
00:23:51
Speaker
I've said this on Anthony's show. I watch every fucking comic book movie that comes out. I don't give a fuck what it is. Like, I watch The Empty Man. The Empty Man was an image comic, right? And it was just like, I just love to see comic book shit on screen. And I like to see it through the lens of other people. Yeah, am I like, oh, I would like to see this. Yeah, but it's not my fucking movie.
00:24:13
Speaker
If I was going to write such a good fucking comic book movie, I would sell all the fucking scripts behind me that I don't fucking have and they pay me a million dollars to do it. So I don't care whatever it is. I'm just fucking happy it's up there because, like I said on Anthony's show, either we can have them
00:24:30
Speaker
Or we can have nothing. We can't have both, right? So either we can see, like we are living in the fucking, we are in the fucking golden age of our lifetimes, man. That's why nerds and shit and like, you know, Star Wars guys and all the rest of these people complaining, motherfucker, there will never be another time like this where everyone's gonna be like, everything you want right now is out. Did you go to fucking Disney recently and step foot in that Star Wars land? Not me, no, but I wish I could, but yeah.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's fucking incredible. And people are like, dude, shut up, shut up. Like it's here because you keep bitching, they're not gonna make it. Then you know what they're gonna bitch about? The fact that we have fucking nothing. So when I saw Superman, especially in, cause I didn't know what a fuck Zack Snyder was. I thought he was the zombie guy.
00:25:18
Speaker
Like, I didn't know there was, like, this whole big thing. So I just watched it because it was a fucking movie. But that trailer was amazing, dude. It was. Oh, my God. That trailer was incredible. Dude, like, him standing in front of the line with the cape and, like, the fucking sound effect. I'm like, this is fu- I got goosebumps. Now I'm just talking about it. Because every time I see a comic book thing, I'm like, this is gonna be the best thing that's ever happened.
00:25:39
Speaker
Now, in the long run, will it? No. But I'm living in a fucking time where it's happening. Like, a comic book person can't complain. Like, what are you going to complain about? We got something. I can't say that for a lot of other shit.
00:25:51
Speaker
So I was hyped, man. I was hyped. I was like, this is where it's gonna start? This is gonna be fucking good. This is gonna be it. So I've gone back and forth on this movie a lot over the years. And my biggest problems are it with the Jonathan Kent stuff and the Metropolis battle. And looking at those from the perspective of how I perceive Superman, those are still things that stick with me whenever I watch the movie.
00:26:16
Speaker
But again, we're approaching this as divorcing it from that. And based on that, I had to put this number five on my list. Hey, let's make it into the top five. Because it is a movie that it again, if you divorce the Superman stuff from it and you just watch this as like, you know, this movie about this character, it this movie does hold
Man of Steel: Performances & Controversies
00:26:36
Speaker
together. It it holds the story makes sense. I can't find any plot holes. There are amazing performances in this. I mean, you know,
00:26:43
Speaker
Jesus Christ, Michael Shannon is Zod. Unbelievable. Russell Crowe is Jor-El, yeah. The last time I saw Michael Shannon, he was one of like the fucking third string bad guys and like bad boys too. I was like, that's the same fucking dude. He was, he was fucking intimidating his shit, man. And it's weird because you put it at five, I put it at four.
00:27:04
Speaker
I'm putting it on the floor because for the same reason, you can't be like, I'm a Superman family, watch this movie. You can be like, I'm a Superman fan. I'm going to go watch this movie and enjoy it over here. But they're not going to give you exactly what you're looking for. They're going to have to tell this movie in a fucking story that someone who has never known, they know Superman from this. That's it. They've got to be able
00:27:26
Speaker
to start a story and fucking end it, not for you, for them, right? For everybody. You're not going to get, like, it's not fan service. They got to make money. They got to make money. So in terms of a fucking movie from start to finish, it was a fucking fantastic flick. I don't care what version it is. He should have the trumps and he shouldn't. And it is a fucking movie to kick off a fucking universe with the fucking star player. That's it.
00:27:55
Speaker
awesome is fucking great I love that flick in fact going with the trunks things I want I'm glad you mentioned that I also want to mention that you know I've always said like the two things I think Snyder did amazingly well in these movies are the costumes and the casting yeah
00:28:09
Speaker
A few exceptions here and there, which I will talk about. I'm definitely going to mention those exceptions. But for the most part, I mean, these costumes are on point. I know people quibble over trunks, no trunks, or it should be brighter. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't mind the dark colors that they use. I thought they worked fine for live action. I thought, you know, getting rid of the trunks works fine too. I would have liked a little bit more separation in the middle, but for the most part,
00:28:34
Speaker
I thought they did a great job with the costume. And I thought that, you know, having it be very similar to the costumes on Krypton, it had a nice little synergy. Again, just my personal thing as a Superman fan, I wish we had Martha have some input on the costume design or something like that. Like, you know, maybe you should wear a cape or something along those lines. Yeah. But I really like doing Superman style shit.
00:28:56
Speaker
Until after he got that fucking thing like at first he's saving dudes in the fucking water and wrapping a truck around The wrapping a truck around the tree was my favorite fucking part. It's fucking great What was he gonna do? Right? So like the fact like yes if if if it told a Clark from from from birth Through his childhood in Smallville getting to Metropolis sure get him the one that stitched together by Martha, but in this situation Long-term they weren't going for that
00:29:23
Speaker
So you don't have time to do that. He's gotta get what the fuck in the tropical is, because people want action. Right? They want him to get to there. So they skip through the other shit, fucking flew right over there.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I do like the some little changes like having Lois figure out his identity having Clark You know wander the world which you know came from birthright, too I like that aspect view of it. Um, I thought what they did with Lois was great, you know having her be Intelligent enough and so we don't go through the whole like, you know She's an investigative reporter and she doesn't realize the biggest story in the universe is sitting right in front of her So I thought that was really good. We didn't undermine her intelligence at all. We set up a
00:30:00
Speaker
And, you know, and again, all the all the complaints I have from this are the complaints being a Superman fan. But when I come when I just divorcing it just from that and just looking at it as a movie itself, it's pretty damn good. It is very good. And and and.
00:30:16
Speaker
With the fight at the end, right? I always, because you know, like, look, I'm always saying, okay, Zod doesn't give a fuck about anybody. Clark does. But what is Zod gonna do? Every time Clark would try and fly him out, he'd be like, fuck that, we're gonna bring it down here because I hate these fucking people anyway, right? Always blast them through buildings. Dude,
00:30:36
Speaker
First of all, you have a fucking fight in space. Motherfuckers are going to complain about that movie for 10 years. They want to see buildings blowing up. They want to see shit going through other shit in focus. Like, they want all that stuff. If you were to flu him up, Zod would have flew him the fuck back down anyway because his goal was to kill all these fucking people regardless.
00:30:54
Speaker
So do I like the fact that he's going to snap his neck again? No. But that is Superman making a decision between I can either let this happen. Like I'm trying to show you what my new life is. My krypton is gone. These motherfuckers are savages. But this one family means more to me right now because this is my home than this motherfucker because this motherfucker definitely doesn't represent me. So I understand people had problems with that stuff. But like we talked about, as a movie, you couldn't have done it another way. Yeah.
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah. You can't do what I'm saying. I'm just going to say this one thing about the fight scene. I think I would accept the breaking the neck thing a little bit more if I saw more of Clark Lane defense in the Metropolis scene, like Zod throwing a car at some family Superman catching it or something like that, and pushing Superman to the point of exhaustion where he's like, I can't keep catching bullets like this. I can't keep catching fly balls. I have to take action to stop it. I think that would have landed with me a little bit better if they had done that.
00:31:52
Speaker
It's just a general question. How many scuffles have you got into? Like, how many times have you thrown down? I mean, nuts. Okay. That was my thing when I was younger. When you're in the middle of an adrenaline dump,
00:32:06
Speaker
If you swing wild and hit somebody, you don't give a fuck because you're trying to go after this person. So if you're looking at the realism of this guy now fighting someone who has the capability to fight them back and you put them in a situation where I'm responsible for everyone in this fucking city,
00:32:26
Speaker
And everybody, my goal, regardless of what happens to everything, the more damage I do now, the less damage that happens in the long run. So I kind of saw it as like, I've been in these fucking spots before. And it's just like, my goal is to try and put this motherfucker down as fast as possible. Because if I don't, he might hurt me, he might hurt my friends, he might hurt
00:32:46
Speaker
like you know like someone else so it's kind of like fight or flight right so yes he could have mitigated the damage but when you're in the middle of something you don't have time to think about the other shit your goal is just to stop the fucking fight by
00:33:04
Speaker
I've heard a lot of defenses of the way Superman behaved in that scene, but this is the first time I think anyone ever put it like that.
DCEU's Rush to Compete with Marvel
00:33:11
Speaker
So I mean, kudos for you to coming up with a defense that I have not heard before. Yeah, and again, look, I'm not waving it like a banner. I wish I didn't bring a bunch of my youth into my fucking mid-twans fucking asshole, right? But the fact of the matter is that now I'm wiser to that stuff.
00:33:15
Speaker
winning
00:33:27
Speaker
You understand why when you try to break up a fight your friend swings at you because he's not seen anything else He wants this person so right that Superman had enough mindset to be like I'm gonna try and move past this building or or or I'm listening to all these people I can hear the world I have the focus on putting this dude down if that means I gotta throw him through a building if there's people in there and it does more damage to him I gotta think about
00:33:52
Speaker
that first so that's the way i always saw it that's why i wasn't really crazy about it to the extent you know that most people were no that's a really good point i'd never considered that before uh but then of course after this you know this movie was um pretty successful and then so and of course this came after avenger so at this point dc is like we gotta play ketchup
00:34:14
Speaker
Their number one downfall, man. They should have just played their game. They played a little game. There's no catching up. When they started to catch up, it was when they started to fuck up continuity. The complaints that people had were legitimate complaints.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I agree with that. And so Batman V Superman, Dawn of Justice announced. We find out Ben Affleck's going to be playing Batman. The internet lights itself on fire. Now, me personally, I was keen on Ben Affleck right from the start, because I've seen him in enough stuff. And I'm like, this dude can act. I mean, you know, I love the director's cut of Daredevil. I say that I'm an unabashedly a fan of that. And I've seen him do like these really serious movies. I know he's got acting chops.
00:34:55
Speaker
Him as Batman made total sense to me. Yeah. He's got range, man. That motherfucker's in a lot of different movies and plays a lot of parts. Like, people gave him shit like, oh, him and JLo. Would you leave the motherfucker alone? He's just trying to date. Yeah. Like, what is his, but like, you know, now let's put up the picture of him smoking outside. Yeah. Like, what if he was upset that day? Some TMZ jerkoffs got a fucking camera in their face. Like, dude, the guy's got a life. His job is to entertain you. Now, if you like what he does,
00:35:22
Speaker
That's fine, but it's not him because it is someone he's doing with his life and blah, blah, blah. It's a fucking movie and he's an actor. This is what he gets paid to do. If he sucked at it, he wouldn't get all the fucking jobs he does. And have you ever heard that dude talk politics? Oh my God, he is brilliant.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah, man, he knows his shit. And he was gonna write the Batman movie. And we were gonna get the Batman movie until he did an interview. And he's like, motherfuckers email me all the time. Where's the fucking Batman? And he's like, like, we ruin that, right? Like people, studio, whatever. He was in, he wanted it. And he's like, I can't fucking do this. I can't do it. Yeah. Because he knows that if he touches that, he's gonna piss off somebody.
00:35:59
Speaker
And he was just happy that I want to deal with that shit. I mean, I know you're a Kevin Smith fan, so you probably heard it. But way back on when he was doing Famine on Batman, it was before he was involved in what it is now. He talked about when Ben Affleck was cast as Batman, and he talked about the house he lives in now used to be Ben Affleck's house. Yeah. The first time he went there, Ben Affleck's like, dude, check this out. And he shows him. He's like, I got like a bat cave in here. And he was such an unabashed fan of this stuff.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's just like, how bad does it suck that you've got this thing that you love and all you want to do is make it for people and people won't shut the fuck up about dumb shit. Like I say the thing about Iman Vellani all the time. Iman Vellani was a cosplayer. Cosplayed as fucking Ms. Marvel. Then
00:36:49
Speaker
It gets cast as Ms. Marvel, then starts writing a Ms. Marvel fucking comic and people still talk shit about her like, what did you want? They took a fan with no fucking acting skills. She's awesome. I think she does a great job and people still have something to complain about because they're all protected beyond a fucking computer.
00:37:07
Speaker
I think the world should be like, what the fuck? Guns of Kimbo. That's what everyone should have happened. Man, you ever seen Guns of Kimbo with fucking Harry Potter? In Guns of Kimbo, he talks, but he's a troll, right? Like he goes to work, goes back, controls a whole bunch of people. In the middle of the night, they come and enter him in his game. You want a troll, motherfuckers? Now we're gonna hunt you, and they fucking chill guns to his hands, but he did all that because he talked all this shit. In my opinion, every time you talk shit about something, you usually have to leave your name and fucking phone number.
00:37:35
Speaker
Cause that would stop a lot of this shit. Cause I'm convinced a bunch of people just hate shit just because that's the trend right now. And that's ridiculous. Oh yeah. The whole clout hunting thing is just so ridiculous. Oh God, Brie Orson's feet. Do you see her feet? What the fuck do you care about her fucking feet? Yeah.
00:37:56
Speaker
Now, the other casting voice that was the big announcement in this was Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor also lit the internet on fire. Now at the time, I was actually kind of keen on seeing that because I'm like, well, you know, I just saw the social network. He was amazing in that. If he played Lex Luthor kind of like a darker version of Mark Zuckerberg, I think that could probably work pretty well. What we ended up getting, I didn't like what we got. I felt very justified in defending Affleck. I did not feel justified in defending Eisenberg.
00:38:25
Speaker
Yeah, I was excited because again, they're actors, right? If they get cast or something, that means they walked into something, they read a couple lines and it fucking worked. They tried to create the, and it was right out of the comic. He's got the white suit on and the long fucking red hair and shit like that. He's kind of quirky, but he's not like, remember when,
00:38:44
Speaker
return to Superman came out and it was Kevin Spacey. So Gene Hackman plays him first. Gene Hackman plays him a certain way. Certain aesthetics, his mannerisms, his inflections, everything. Kevin Spacey did an impression of Gene Hackman playing fucking Lex Luthor. We haven't seen anyone else outside of the TV shows
00:39:02
Speaker
People try and playing differently when I saw Jesse in the movie I was like he's kind of doing the same thing very good Like why can't he be serious? We didn't see what I thought we were gonna get until the after credits with the fucking shaved head and shit like yeah Yeah, I want to see that version, but I don't think he looks intimidating enough to give me that one. I
00:39:25
Speaker
I think he could give you the young one that turns a little psycho, but I don't think, like, Ryan Cranston would scare the shit out of me as Lex Luthor. Denzel Washington would scare the fuck out of me. Jesse Eisenberg would be like, fuck that rich kid, right? So I understand that's what they wanted, which is why they picked him, but I wasn't a fan, I was a fan at first, because I wanted to give everyone a shot, but after I sort of way did it, I'm like, nah, I don't like that one. Yeah. And again, my late co-host, he said, you know, Jesse Eisenberg would be a great pick for Lex Luthor in about 10 to 20 years.
00:39:53
Speaker
No, God, absolutely. Absolutely. The fucking dude can act, man. He can act. Oh, yeah. He's an amazing actor. Absolutely. He is. And again, you know, divorcing this from and also, you know, there is good stuff I like about this movie. Like, I think almost everything with Batman, aside from, you know, some of the the more extreme behavior stuff. Other than that, I thought that stuff was really good. And I think it really kind of showed that Zack Snyder really kind of wanted to do Batman more than Superman.
00:40:21
Speaker
Which is, if you look at the aesthetics of his movies, that would make sense. It makes sense, yeah. Especially because there's so much of Dark Knight Returns DNA in this movie as opposed to Superman stuff, yeah. But also, Jeremy Irons as Alfred, that was such a brilliant casting choice. Because he's supposed to, dude, he's what, ex-royal Navy, isn't he?
00:40:41
Speaker
like, yeah, military. That's the version that we got. And I think Jeremy irons does brainiacs voice and justice league kills the suicide squad too. It's frightening. That motherfucker is amazing. I loved him as fucking out either him or homeboy who did golem who was the TV shows version of Alfred.
00:40:59
Speaker
Oh, Andy Serkis. Yeah, I love that. Again, I want that Alfred. He could still present as very like, hello, I'm missing that. But at home, he's got the sleeves rolled up. He's working on shit. He's patching them up. That, to me, is the Alfred that I want.
00:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of I could feel like very similar to like Michael Guff and Michael Keaton. I could really kind of feel that same chemistry between Ben Affleck and Jeremy Irons like they definitely had that like, you know, he's he's the only one who can tell who can call Batman on his shit. And I think Jeremy Irons played that perfectly. Yeah, yeah.
00:41:36
Speaker
And the Superman stuff, I feel like there's some good stuff in here. And I'm talking about the Ultimate Edition here, so I have seen the Ultimate Edition. I do like that they do show Clark pushing back and trying to investigate stuff. I didn't quite understand the whole thing about Perry White constantly hounding him about this sports match, though. That felt weird. Yeah.
00:41:59
Speaker
I say it all the time, I would like to see more reporter and I want to see more detective out of Superman and Batman. Like I wanted to see more detective shit, like you got one thing in the Nolan where he takes the brick, which look, I might be dumb, maybe someone you know can explain it to me. He pulls the fucking brick out of the thing, he sets the gun and shoots four different bricks and he's like, that's the one. But that's not even a brick, that's not even a gun he shot. Can someone fucking explain that to me? Because I still have a fucking idea what that is.
00:42:29
Speaker
i thought i was fucking crazy because i've been saying this every single time i watch that movie i don't understand i have no idea what that is supposed to be he shot four different bullets in the bricks and he's like crap he holds it up he's like that's the one the fuck you mean that's the one i have no idea yeah but so um reporting i thought that would have been cool yeah yeah but i mean that's what we're getting now in legacy anyway yes yeah uh but also you know looking at this movie though it there's still a lot of problems and again divorcing it from the comic stuff
00:42:59
Speaker
There's still a lot of story elements that don't quite work for me. I mean, obviously the whole Martha thing doesn't work for me at all. But even like Lex Luthor's whole plan, his whole motivation, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And the whole thing about how Batman's supposed to be this great detective and yet
00:43:17
Speaker
Lex Luthor is doing all this stuff and yet he doesn't figure it out. All of that, so much of the story just doesn't connect right for me. So for that reason, I ended up ranking this as... This ended up being number 13 on my ranking. Okay. The Martha thing, right? I know that became a meme thing.
00:43:40
Speaker
I've loved that from the fucking beginning. It actually almost bought a tear in my eye. We got a 20-year Batman. He's been doing this a long time. He's not even worried about who he kills as evidence from the fact he keeps blowing up fucking trucks with his fucking Batmobile. He's driving over people. He's like, well, I didn't see myself kill him. He didn't want to do this forever, which is why he's like, we need a lead. That's what I'm out to do. I don't want to do this forever. There's certain things I can't do.
00:44:05
Speaker
Everybody, he has never, ever reconciled the fucking death of his parents, ever, even in the fucking comics. Nothing ever sits right. As a matter of fact, in the newest run, there's like Batman's from like all different universes. And they kind of crack a joke where he's like, guys, if you want to go to the morning room, we have a new art installation of falling pearls, you're really mourned over it. Like, the fact that he never reconciled hit, he does not know
00:44:28
Speaker
that Superman's mom had the fucking same name does not know which means when Superman and there's a lot of chemicals in the air right when Superman says save Martha
00:44:39
Speaker
I think we know it's the same fucking name. I'm not 100% convinced that Batman thinks that actually happened or if he was fucking imagining it, that's why it's hit him as hard as he did. We're talking about someone whose entire life, his entire existence and his alter ego is based off of the traumatic event that happened with his fucking parents.
00:45:04
Speaker
So when he says save Martha, of course, the child is going to come out in this fucking billionaire with all of this shit and stop whatever he's doing. He's like, why did you say that? He's got the same name for his fucking mom. Of course, it would fucking stop him.
00:45:20
Speaker
If it didn't, I'd be like, this is bullshit. Like the fact that he stopped and was like, why the fuck did you say that name? He doesn't know his fucking mom's name is Martha. None of them know. Which is why like we looked at it and I think a lot of these fucking people started to use it as a joke. But I was like, guys, this is 30, 40 years, 45 years of fucking trauma for this dude. He dresses as a giant bat to try and make up for it. And now he's got to do this thing
00:45:46
Speaker
And you call out his mom's name and you don't expect him to fucking like, have you ever read a psychology book before? That's a trigger moment. Of course he's gonna stop whatever he's doing and he doesn't want to know what happened. He wants to know why he said that name. That to me was poetically beautiful. That's my fucking stance on it. And I actually put that in order.
00:46:07
Speaker
I mean, again, that is a you're coming up with some really interesting arguments that I have not heard before. Like, and yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I still have issues with the way it was executed, though. Oh, God, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially because he didn't say save my mom. Right.
00:46:22
Speaker
It was a save Martha thing. I get it. And that's where I think the deus ex machina has to come in. He's got to say that or else you don't get the stoppage, right? You don't get the stoppage if he says anything else. He doesn't just go save my mom. You can't do that because then it doesn't come together. I thought it was nice how they bought it together because it's like, like, like, um,
00:46:40
Speaker
And it's weird because a bunch of people were complaining, also put trigger warnings before this stuff. Oh, I'm going to mention blood. Oh, I'm going to mention this word, that word, because people have adverse reactions to it. This motherfucker has been living alone with a butler who's his dad for 35 fucking years, who's never ever gotten over the death of his parents that now he's trying to make up for. And everyone's like, why you fucking stop when he said his name? Motherfucker, do you understand the question that you just asked makes you look like an asshole? Of course he fucking stops.
00:47:10
Speaker
That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I actually put that at number three. I don't really like it. I liked it. I thought I thought I Love the chick who plays Lois man. She's fucking like aesthetically. Oh, she's got a fucking darker I thought that she was finally the lowest that wouldn't scare the shit
00:47:30
Speaker
She's supposed to be this intrepid reporter. She's not like women's right like she doesn't have to say how strong she is a woman cuz she fucking is when she gets caught up when fucking FBI agent Jimmy Olson gets caught that I was like Like that yeah But like she didn't know who's gonna sit she was like fuck I'm trapped like what am I gonna do? She just knows her heartbeat and came to go get her but she didn't give a fuck about anything That's what I like about her like I like that that
00:47:56
Speaker
Um that take on the character also has never been a better fucking batman fight scene at that fucking warehouse Oh god. Yes. Oh my god. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, that fight scene is amazing again, like that is the one thing that I think Even if you absolutely hate this movie cannot stand watching it You got to give it to Snyder for that fight scene. That scene is amazing also doomsday on what the fuck happened Yeah, that to me. I was like
00:48:24
Speaker
Like, look, if he starts off looking like bedrock from a brigade or whatever that fucking team was, an image, that's fine. But every time he dies, give him some more spikes. Like, why didn't, like, why did they settle on the little nuggets? Like, give him the fucking, like, it seems you die, man. It's not like it was a person. Like, the fact that he didn't grow the big ones, I was like, that movie, I think, would have got at least 20% less hate if he started to get, like, the ridges and stuff like that. I don't know, but let me tell you something.
00:48:53
Speaker
When that movie came out and the Trinity walked out, I was like, I got excited as shit, man. I will say that too. When Gal Gadot comes out in that Wonder Woman armor, that is the brightest spot in this whole movie. Especially when she gets that little smirk when Doomsday knocks her back or something. Oh my God, I was totally there for that. That moment, I'm like, okay, I am totally into Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman.
00:49:19
Speaker
Listen, at that point, everybody on the planet, regardless of what their sexual identity was, was either gay or straight for Gallagher. When she gets kicked back and she smirks and shakes her head, she's finally someone that's worked the fight. I was like, dude, I almost fainted, man. And then someone put up a gift of just that. I was like, whew, that's the shit right there. Yeah, man. It was good. And come on, dude.
00:49:44
Speaker
Uh, it's just Gotham. We got a long history of people dressed like clowns. That Clark, that Clark Bruce interaction, that was amazing. Like this, this is like the little nuggets of stuff that I wish we saw more of that. Um, but also too, like, you know,
00:49:59
Speaker
The whole thing about like Luther using his own experimental bullets in Africa. I'm like, you are literally citing your name to this. This is really, and nobody, and Lois Lane is the only one who can figure it out. The world's greatest detective can't figure this out. So that also, yeah, I'm like, this, that's what I said when we did our review episode on this. I'm like, Lois Lane is the best detective in this movie. And even she is not even that great a detective.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, I know yeah remember for all like look For all the issues that the fucking that and you know what Clark is right if I wanted to you'd be dead already It's not fucking wrong. Yeah, and I know everyone's I do don't you get started with that boys? Would you look at prep time that make take out they know so that man shut up? Yeah, that's fucking but like
00:50:42
Speaker
I thought the way they did it was great. It's smoke. Clark didn't know what it was. He's like, whatever, I'm going to catch it to fucking explode. That shit like... Well, yeah. I mean, he hadn't experienced kryptonite at all at that point. So that made sense. That man spent the whole fight trying to fight for his life. I got to kill him first because if this shit wears off...
00:50:59
Speaker
I'm dead do memories punched him and his face moves less and less and he's like, oh shit He starts to back up the fucking fight was awesome, man. Yeah, I mean that's why I ranked it high When it comes to visuals, you know Zack Snyder takes a backseat to no one I mean he is amazing when it comes to the visuals. Yeah And also like the Batman costume too, you know Incredibly incredible use of the costume. I love that costume in it
00:51:24
Speaker
And there's one more thing I was gonna say about it. Oh, I also think that this was just kind of a missed opportunity to really kind of build the universe out, not just in these weird video files where Lex Luthor is apparently designing superhero logos for some reason. That didn't make much sense. But I mean, we could have, I think this movie would have worked a lot better if there was more of a contrast between Batman and Superman. And that's what I thought we would get going in. Like when we saw all the trailers and like Bruce is like, you know,
00:51:50
Speaker
you know, angry and terrified of what Clark is capable of. And I thought, I'm like, okay, so he's gonna come in. And I would have liked to see if it was Batman and Lex Luthor who both come at this from similar angles where it's like, this guy's dangerous. But then Batman, like, you know, starts to turn over the course of the movie instead of at the last minute. And like around the midpoint, he starts to realize, oh, wait, no.
00:52:12
Speaker
you know, Clark's, Clark's has a good heart. He's just raw. He just needs more, more training or more instruction. And I'm going to, and maybe in the senior superhero, I'm going to do that. Give that for him. And then we're Lex Luther just goes further xenophobic madman. I think that would have worked better off as a way of like building up the universe.
00:52:31
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, I always talk about like, you know, cause you always hear these directors going, you know, that wasn't my vision, blah, blah, blah. And even Kevin Smith, he talks about it all the time. The worst part of the process is you got to bring it to all these studio heads. And I think Patton Oswalt brought it up in one of his comedy sketches.
00:52:46
Speaker
He's like, why is the fucking necklace she wearing red? Make it white. Like, shit that they want to change for no fucking reason? Well, I can only imagine what that's like writing a movie, right? So you're a writer, right? You write this fucking thing, and you're like, this is exactly how I want it. People are going to love it. This is my vision. I got a little fucking thing in my head. We're getting in, you're like, isn't this great? And they're like, nope, change this, this, this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
Your name is still on that credit. And you're like, fuck, I still have to make this work. It's not necessarily what I wanted, but I still gotta make it work. And after it comes out, it is now out there for good or for ill. People are like, fuck this dude and fuck him and fuck him. You're like, look, man.
00:53:25
Speaker
I did the best I could with what I got. I got an hour and fucking 20 minute hour or whatever run time. Like, what the fuck did you want me to do? Tell an entire 67 year history? You can't fucking do it, man. So it's just weird, man. Like, it's always like this visceral, like,
00:53:41
Speaker
I don't know if I can write in direct because not everyone's going to like it and people are going to intentionally hate it just because. And I've also got a skin for that man. I mean, Kevin Smith's talking about his experience with Superman and dealing with John Peters and all that. That's a perfect example of what you're talking about there. So then after this, we end with the death of Superman, which again, I think it's
00:54:03
Speaker
You we already know you're doing Justice League, dude. I mean, you kind of take the suspense out of it when you kill Superman at the end of this movie. But still, next we went to Suicide Squad also in 2016 and.
00:54:16
Speaker
This is when my faith in the DCEU just completely plummeted. It cratered when we got to Suicide Squad. And again, I was kind of looking forward to this. I'm like, OK, Jared Leto is the Joker. I'm kind of curious to see what that's going to be like. I love the Suicide Squad. I love the Ostrander run. And I thought, you could bring it in a bunch of these villains. I did think it's weird, though.
00:54:40
Speaker
We haven't even brought in the superheroes and yet we already have a team of supervillains who are in prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was the Rush Fest, right? Where they were just trying to, you know, fuck us with everything that they had because Marvel was putting out something every month. Where if you just did it smart, I think we'd still have
00:54:58
Speaker
the apocalypse, you know, Justice League coming out and all the rest of that stuff. I think the race that they were, this imaginary race, because it was this imaginary race, you didn't have to fucking try to catch up with anybody. You could have just told your fucking story, man. And instead, it was like, throw this out, throw this out with this continuity, this is continuity. They started making
00:55:17
Speaker
multiverse stuff without establishing a multiverse first. So it's like, all right, well, what is in and what is out? People are just randomly changing. You're like, what the fuck is this? And like, well, that's not in continuity. Well, since when? You got all the same characters except for one fucking person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this ended up on that. This was number 15 for me. Okay. It was 13 for me. It was pretty close. The version that came out was a 13.
00:55:46
Speaker
the original trailer that I saw with the sad song in it that could have been in my top five because I feel like this was a complete and I know like the release the air look man I don't know if the original movie was the same they just made a great trailer for it but the first one seemed way more haunting like this is fucking horrible that these people have to do this there was some really bright spots like dude fucking Margot Robbie's incredible man yeah um
00:56:13
Speaker
I like the dead shot in it. I even like this chick as Enchantress. I think she's a talented actress. Here's why Shazam 2 ranks so high on my list. I know it's usually low on everybody else's. Here's how it ranks so high.
00:56:33
Speaker
You got the Suicide Squad taking on a fucking world-ending monster. Now I understand it's a movie. You kind of look at comic books the same way. You can't have something like that and have nobody else show up. Especially after Batman v. Superman. You can't fucking do it. I don't care how much Amanda Waller runs. They always give her this fucking amazing defense against everything. No one else showed up. Nobody? You got this whole fucking thing going on. That's why I like...
00:56:58
Speaker
And we'll get there. Shazam 2 is like, there's a bubble, motherfucker. What are you going to do about it? Like, at least that sated that for me. But this was too big. You want to give me a Suicide Squad movie? Make it something small. Give me intergang. Like, give me something smaller, street level, terrestrial level. You got a bunch of people who fight a terrestrial thing anyway. You got Harley Quinn swinging a fucking hammer around at fucking mutated monsters. Like, it just didn't.
00:57:25
Speaker
It was too much. It was too much. You know, I think they should have done is Batman's missing because he's traveling the world trying to gather the Justice League, but nobody knows that Joker comes back and now we need to get a team to take down the Joker because he's so dangerous. Like that's what I thought it was going to be. That's what I hoped it would be. And then what we got was just and then Joker is just kind of ancillary based on that. And I'm sorry, like I was.
00:57:50
Speaker
I hated every last thing about Jared Leto's performance as Joker in this and in the scene at the end of ZSJL. Everything about him I hated from the weird laughing.
00:58:07
Speaker
See, it's weird. He didn't have the same voice or laugh in the closing scene of Zack Snyder. He didn't have the tattoo. So just leaving. Yeah, he didn't have the tattoo. He wanted to change, right? Because that his voice, like he didn't sound like the mask. Why do you sound like the mask in the fucking movie? Right? And I genuinely was talented as shit. Have you ever seen the drug movie? Fuck, man. What was it?
00:58:31
Speaker
Fuck. Oh, my fucking God. The guy can act. He can act. He's a fucking wonderful actor. But that's the version you have him playing, right? You have the gangster, the clown, the anarchist. You had a couple of the other two. Let's make him the gangster. Now, I do think it's apropos that he's in like shorts with Batman logos on it. I was like, that's pretty fucking funny. But you didn't make him. But there are parts in it that I really like, like him laying
00:59:00
Speaker
in the perfectly meticulously put daggers and weapons, I was like, that's awesome. Also, one part in that movie that to me was quintessential Joker sex shows up my spine, when he's firing the gold gun out of the helicopter, just that four seconds the face that he makes, I'm like,
00:59:20
Speaker
That's awesome. Like that moment right there was fucking great. But he was not only underutilized, but I think that's the one where they like, let's throw him a curve ball. And it was a hanging curve. And they were like, we don't want nothing to do with that shit. They definitely let him play the wrong joker. Because I think if you get because now in in the Batman, we have this dude who I think is really talented, just doing a Heath Ledger in
00:59:45
Speaker
Same voice, same everything. So they tried to do something a little different, which I respected, but it went way, way left. I think the entire movie was just a victim of everything going way left. It was too
Wonder Woman's Impact & Critiques
01:00:00
Speaker
much. Too much. I love Ben Affleck's cameos in this too. Again, another way of showing what a great Batman we could have gotten. I thought he did an amazing job in those scenes.
01:00:09
Speaker
And also, you know, Viola Davis is great too. And Viola Davis as Amanda Waller. Perfect casting. Perfect casting. Yeah. I mean, she's great. Those are the three things I like most about it. It was Margot Roby as, you know, number one with the bullet. Viola Davis is a close second. And then, you know, kind of in the third was Will Smith. He really kind of impressed me as Deadshot. I never expected him to play it.
01:00:30
Speaker
as hardcore as he did, because you hear Will Smith is deadshot. You're like, all right, Will Smith's got this squeaky clean image. He's going to definitely make him like the anti hero type character. No, he was still pretty hardcore. And I thought he did a pretty good job. His his interview, I think, with Jimmy Fallon was my favorite, though, where he's talking about seeing the Batmobile. He's like in a Batmobile, came around the corner, was like, Oh, how can you not freak out, man? Like Ben Affleck hanging off the fucking top of it. And he got to watch all that. He got to stand five feet away from him.
01:00:59
Speaker
He's like, that's it, you're dead shot, you're done. And he was like, no, that's so fucking cool. So, I don't know, man, it seemed like, yes, I heard there was a bunch of reshoots. Dude, I know so little about that shit. Reshoots, no reshoots. I don't know what they put out kind of fucking sucked. Unfortunately, because. I hate all the rhetoric about, you know, oh, the release, the air cut and all that kind of stuff. I hate like the how extreme they get to it. But that being said, though, yeah, I would like to see the directors cut of that. I would also like to see Batgirl.
01:01:28
Speaker
Not fucking CS! Absolutely, yes, oh my god, yes, yes. And, uh, Coyote Viacme.
01:01:36
Speaker
But that's, again, I could go on another rant about David Zasloff, but I think I've said enough of him already. So anyway, after this, so we're pretty close in this. It was number 15 for me. It was number 13 for you. After this, we got the first big curve in the DCEU. This is the first time when they're really trying to turn things in a different direction. And that was Wonder Woman 2017.
01:02:01
Speaker
I went apeshit over this movie when I saw it in the theater, and I'm not a big Wonder Woman fan. It was a masterclass for cinema. That fucking movie was incredible. That movie, storytelling-wise, and the fact that you took someone in a bright suit—yes, I know it was an original bright—you took someone in a comic book suit and made it believable. Her attitude, everything. Dude, that fucking movie was incredible.
01:02:25
Speaker
And then it was only made worse by the second steaming pile of shit that they came out. And it was like, really? Like, that's what you're going to give us afterwards, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Wonder Woman was an incredible flick. It was an incredible flick.
01:02:41
Speaker
Now this was number three for me and it got knocked down a few spots because of the third act. I think the third act, it kind of gets a little bit weak. The whole thing, I loved what they were leading up to with the whole idea of like Aries isn't actually responsible for this. This is just man. But at the end when they kind of say like, yeah, well, I was kind of whispering in their ears. I'm like, okay, now you're trying to, you're trying to do both things. And I don't think it works. I think it would have been better if
01:03:04
Speaker
Aries just like, if the main villain is like Dr. Poison or something like that. And then at the end, she realizes there is no Aries. And then maybe Aries pops up after she kills the German general. And he is just like, you know, I was just sitting back and watching this with a fucking popcorn. Yeah, actually, I don't think you need it. So this was number two for me.
01:03:26
Speaker
mainly for the same reason. I liked the fact that he was like, I don't have to do shit. These motherfuckers are savages. But then he was like, but then there's a fight at the end. However, I do like that his armor was pieces of death machine that man made. It was parts of arm. Like it wasn't his. It was a tank here. It was a piece of a gun here. Like he called all of these man made, which to me is metaphoric. That man makes more war than the fucking God of War. Like I enjoyed all that shit.
01:03:59
Speaker
Honestly, the weakest part that I had was, and it's gonna sound like something small, the sharpshooter did not have a redemption.
01:04:07
Speaker
They say that he can't shoot anymore and stuff like that. And in the end, yes, I know that the lob is like he makes one fucking critical hit, but you can't lay that down as a storyteller in the plot and not in resolution have him get to that point. Because otherwise he was just a motherfucker hanging on the entire movie. So that was my only qualm with it. Like, yes, I didn't want the fight at the end, but the fight I then thought was okay because in my head it was, these people are so much better at war than me.
01:04:36
Speaker
that i have to call myself in their shit so i thought that was kind of politically beautiful i thought that look at it was awesome but the fact that the sniper had no no like so why make it don't put them in there at all i see fucking saying like that's not really i don't know like that was the only part that i was like yeah
01:04:57
Speaker
And then Chris Pine as Steve Trevor. And him and Gal Gadot's chemistry was off the charts. Like, oh my God. I mean, like the only thing, you're wondering why they haven't fucked on that boat at that point because they're just so much chemistry together. Yeah, really.
01:05:14
Speaker
like and and People like well, she wouldn't fall over the man that soon. Really? Why not? Right? Like I know people immediately want to jump on the why would she okay? Well, I'll jump on your why wouldn't she shouldn't know what a fucking man is, right? And also I mean like dude, it's Chris Pine. I would go gray for Chris Pine. Yeah, I mean a and a
01:05:37
Speaker
shit like he is beaten and fucking brute like shit like they they lean on each other he's not he he in no way makes it out that he's superior he's trying to explain that men run everything and I just listened to him because this is how the fucking world works so I think that there's that mutual respect there too I love that fucking flick
01:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, dude that no man's land scene. Oh my god. It's brilliant. Oh my god And we know it was coming no one passes no man's land and then she crawls up and it's just her feet Right, like they're all fucking getting gunned down and you just see her feet and then she comes up over the ladder I was like
01:06:12
Speaker
And it's the first time we see the costume in full in the movie. Like before that, we only get like little glimpses here and there. But the first time we see it in full is when she enters No Man's Land. It was perfect. I think there's like some mortar like this. I was like, yo, Wonder Woman is great. Oh, that was so good. And we'll have more to say about Wonder Woman, because I actually already recorded the episode, but it's going to be coming out later on the feed. I did a whole episode on Wonder Woman with Nick and Danny from the In Love with Movies podcast.
Justice League's Identity Crisis
01:06:39
Speaker
Lots of good stuff you guys got to look forward to with that But anyway, so that was uh, that was 2017 and then after this then we get a big crater and this is Justice League and The the weed the or Justice League I guess we can call it and
01:06:57
Speaker
This is this is when things really started to go, you know, completely off the rails because, you know, Zack Snyder had suffered the worst tragedy imaginable, right? You know, his daughter committed suicide and then he's like, you know what? I'm I'm out. I'm leaving. And then he and then, you know, Josh Whedon comes in and and at first I was excited for to see what Whedon was going to do because I loved Avengers. I loved Age of Ultron. Huge Buffy, Angel, Firefly fan, all of it. And then what we got, I'm just like,
01:07:27
Speaker
This is weird. They said marvel it. Yeah. They said marvel it. Because even the tone of the movie was different. Everything about it, the jokes and everything. Oh, well, because again, they were in some foot race when they should have just played their own fucking game, man. Like, like the number one hockey team doesn't worry about what the number one football team is doing. You're both a sport.
01:07:50
Speaker
You're both a sport. They're both comic books. But the differences are so fucking varied with realism and stuff like that. Just play your fucking game. Don't worry about it. They got nothing to do with you.
01:08:03
Speaker
We saw this he tried to turn it into the Avengers because they wanted lightning the fucking strike twice The only difference is Avengers had fucking movies of buildup that made yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I mean, there's still some things I think that Whedon did that I like like I I really like the way that Superman is portrayed in this one, you know Bad CGI lip aside. I should I think they should just given a full beard and go with that instead and
01:08:28
Speaker
And I like the like the line when when Aquaman says that line to Bruce about how strong man stands strongest alone Bruce like that's the opposite of the saying I actually kind of like that that little change I made to it and I like the conversation between him and Alfred about how you know one misses the time when all we had to worry about was wind up exploding penguins. Yeah, yep, yep again key stuff like that is great but the entire tone.
01:08:52
Speaker
It, yeah, it was all over the place. Yeah, cause we'll keep this, we won't keep this. And then you Frankenstein together this thing that looks like from what I understand the golden child was like, and I didn't know this till recently. Apparently the golden child in the movie came out, it was supposed to be a serious flick. There was no comedy in it. Wow. Any Murphy, but they wanted it to be a serious flick. And then I rewatched it again with that knowledge. And you can tell because some of those part, the more is deathly fucking serious. And then there's weird jokes thrown in. You're like,
01:09:21
Speaker
Wait, I didn't pick this up when I was a fucking kid. So I think that's what it was. You tried to tell this fucking serious story and you had the trailer come out and even the trip was come together, but a weird version. I'm like, what? What is going to happen in this movie now? It didn't take away when I fucking saw it. I was screaming.
01:09:41
Speaker
That's fucking great. Holy shit. There they are, man. They're all fucking right there and it's awesome. And then when you think about it and you're like, wait a minute, you start looking at the movies that came before. And you're like, wait a minute, I have a problem with this. And what's this plot hole? And what the fuck is this? And why does Steppenwolf look like that and the rest of the shit? And I was just like, huh. Yeah, I was excited about the movie, but even when I left the theater the first time, I was like, that could have been better. Yeah, I remember when I left the theater. Yeah. I'm just like, I don't really know how I feel about this after the first time I saw it. And, and, um,
01:10:10
Speaker
I mean, again, I thought, like, I love seeing Jason Momoa's Aquaman. This really introduced me to him as that character. I thought he did a great job. I thought Ray Fisher, you know, even though he had a very small part in this version of it, I thought he did a pretty good job. Yeah. Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck still bringing their best thing to do. But Ezra Miller, I despise him from the first frame of this movie. I saw him in just like, oh, God.
01:10:34
Speaker
And, you know, I said, like, I like all the the designs that Zack Snyder has done with some exceptions. The flash costume is the exception. I hate that fucking costume.
01:10:43
Speaker
Yeah, that one didn't have to be, like, why does it have metal and shit? Like, it should look like, to me it's the flash, it shouldn't have armor. It should have armor. Like, it should look more like Grant Gustin's fucking cat. Like, that's the one that just makes more sense to me. Because anything else just heats up in another world's middle. All right, fine. But like, it looks like it was stitched together, which technically, I mean, I guess it was. Like, he made it. So it was just like, eh, but if he made it, show me one that looks like it was made.
01:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, that looked a little too. So yeah, another change that one other change that we'd made that actually liked was when they're in the they're in the subway and Flash is like, I've never done this before. I've never fought people. All I do is just push people out of the way, which doesn't make sense because we saw him fight Captain Boomerang at the beginning of Suicide Squad. But but I love Batman's line to him afterwards, like save one, save one, and then you'll know what to do. Perfect Batman line. Yep.
01:11:39
Speaker
I also like the fact that for the most part, I wouldn't say like Batman was trying to find where he was needed.
01:11:49
Speaker
He had big machines, but otherwise he got slapped around quite a bit. Yeah. That's why I like the Snyder because in the Snyder version, he actually used his smarts to gain the advantage on parademons and shit like that. Like I like that a little bit more. And this one, it just seemed like he was like the comic relief. They didn't really do much anything. He was just kind of got thrown really come on. He gets tossed by Diana too.
01:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, you talked about Steve Trevor, which was fucking weird. So yeah, that was weird, too. I did not like that. That felt like forced conflict there. Even when the athletes delivery of that felt very forced. Yeah, like it felt like athletes did not want to deliver that line at all. Yeah.
01:12:26
Speaker
I did like also how they incorporated the Batman and Superman theme songs too. I know Anthony didn't like that, but I thought that was a little moment. No, I didn't love that. I said that on his show, dude, when the Batman Bill comes ripping around the corner, and it's here, and that's it. It's gone. I was like, that's fucking cool, man. I enjoyed that a lot. But still, this ended up ranking number 12 on my list.
01:12:49
Speaker
That was 15 for me. It was 15. Only because the other one I liked so much more, that actually pushed that one down because the other one made sense. Now after this, we get to Aquaman 2018. I'm going to just come right out and say it because we reviewed this a while back on the show, but this was number two for me. I love the hell out of this movie. Honestly, Aquaman was five. It was really high. Aquaman and Aquaman 2 are the only ones that are close
01:13:16
Speaker
In terms of a part one and part two to anything that I have on this fucking list I gotta tell you both were really enjoyable I didn't want to see part two because I didn't give a fuck at that point because it didn't mean anything anyway It's not even continuity I'm glad I watched it because that part one and part two is probably the strongest part one part two that we got out of it I think so. I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely it I know number one and number two, they aren't the closest in rank for me, but they are
01:13:45
Speaker
Number two, his number two is the highest ranked movie on my list. Oh, and so no, no, I mean, um, I mean, uh, on my list, Aquaman is number five. I just met as a part one, part two, where they are in my list of 16. They're actually close together because I enjoyed both of those flicks a lot. And we did think, well, we'll get to this when we get there, but I thought they shot Amber Heard out of a bunch of Aquaman too. She's in the whole fucking movie. What did they mean?
01:14:11
Speaker
They did actually. Yeah, we'll talk about that because Dolph Lundgren said that that she was her part, their part, his part and her part were supposed to be much bigger than what we got. So apparently they were supposed to be doing really doing a lot of that fucking movie. I don't know. Maybe she was originally supposed to be part of maybe she wasn't injured. Maybe she was originally supposed to be part of it when Aquaman and and his brother go out on their their journey. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly. But I just remember that's what that's what that's what that's what Lundgren said about it when he was asked about it.
01:14:41
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, it was fucking awesome. It was, it was back and forth between whether I'm going to rank this number two or Wonder Woman number two. And I ultimately went with this one because I think Wonder Woman's first two acts are much stronger than Aquaman's first two acts, but Aquaman is more consistent as a movie all the way out. Like Aquaman, it, it ends like the third act is just as good as the first two. Wonder Woman, that third act is a big drop off for me.
01:15:08
Speaker
Yeah, and also comic book-esque costumes. Dude, Ocean Master walked right out of the comic. Black Manta, the fact that they pulled off the dome head and made it look good, they could've went any other direction. They made that shit look good. That's a good looking one. And then obviously with the actual armor, which my problem is that it's a suit. Like you could tell, like when Arthur Curry was walking around, he ain't that bulky and then puts his suit on, like what the fuck is this? But in terms of what the movie looks like character-wise,
01:15:37
Speaker
those costumes look fucking phenomenal. Like they roll the dice and we're like, we want this to look like, Orm's fucking costume, it's like purple and fuschage, and they make that shit look good, even the helmet, which they're like, they're never gonna make that look good. It fucking looked awesome. The Orange and Green, if you told me they were gonna have a full on comics accurate adaptation of the Orange and Green costume, I would've been like, no fucking way. Jason Momoa would never wear that, and it's not gonna happen. Oh my God, not only did he wear it, he wore the hell out of that suit. That looked damn good.
01:16:06
Speaker
My only issue with him, personally, is he should have been waited on, but he was big at the time. That's Lobo all day every day. I don't give a fuck yet. He even plays certain aspects of his personality, as Arthur, is very Lobo-esque. Now, if they do pull him, of course I want to see the flick. I would have been nice to see without knowing that he was Aquaman. If anything, make the guy who played Orem Aquaman and give him the fresh cut,
01:16:34
Speaker
or have the dude, Anthony Starr, who plays Homelander, give him fucking Aquaman. Make him look like that so you can save the person who literally is fucking Lobo to play fucking Lobo. Now you have the same person. He gets drunk, he falls down in the puddles and shit like that. It's just the same guy. So that's my problem. It's not with him. It's with the fact that they used him way too fucking early when they didn't need to. They had someone who looks like him and acts like him. You should've waited.
01:17:15
Speaker
I mean, this is like Braveheart under the fucking sea, man. This is great. I mean, they got the friggin octopus playing the drums for Christ's sake. Jesus Christ. Like the way Atlantis looks in this, it gave me huge Wakanda vibes. See how they get this. Yes. Yes. I love this movie completely. I agree with you. Like as much as I do like Surfer Bro Aquaman, he should have been Lobo. That would have definitely been a better move. Yes.
01:17:34
Speaker
It was it was awesome. Who did it?
01:17:42
Speaker
But anyway, we move on from this to Shazam! 2019. And this was another one that I dug a lot. Like, you know, basically, and again, I was not a Captain Marvel Shazam! fan at all. Never really had any interest in the character. But, you know, the whole idea of approaching this as like big, but with superheroes, I thought that was a brilliant way to address this idea. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I like Shazam! 1 a lot. Then I show off Shazam! 2 and I know that like people shit on it.
01:18:10
Speaker
I like that, like, two pushed one down, but I have a bunch of, but like, obviously when we get there, because that one was high because it was enjoyable. It wasn't forced comedy. He'd be like, why is he acting like that? Because he's a fucking child stuck in a big person's body. He's Tom Hanks with powers from fucking big, like that's what he is. Of course he's gonna act like he's charging people's phones and shit. I liked it. It was
01:18:34
Speaker
just moved down because of other stuff that I liked that was above it for whatever little reason. So Shazam was actually 12 for me, but 12 is not because I didn't like it. Just because there's reasons why there's other stuff above it, but part two actually ranked higher than that. But I liked Shazam the flick. I thought it was really fucking good. This one ranked number six for me.
01:18:53
Speaker
Okay. I thought bringing in a family like, oh, and fucking Mark Strong, who I thought he was great at Sinestro. Yeah, my father was Sinestro all day. I need... I don't... I think the reason why it dropped a couple points for me was the family aspect at the end. Like, you have Shazam fight the whole battle, and yes, I know the importance is the family, right?
01:19:18
Speaker
the very last fight, I don't know, it just seemed like, hey, we need to put more people in costumes to sell toys. Like that's what it seemed like to me. So that part just felt a little weak sauce near the end.
01:19:30
Speaker
I do a lot of public domain. I'm active in a lot of public domain circles. And there was a conspiracy theory in public domain groups that the reason that they had all of them in the movie like that was to prevent, because Captain Marvel's first appearance is actually in public domain. So to get around trademarks and stuff, people will change the colors of the costume. So there's a conspiracy theory that they add all these different characters with different colored costumes so that they can secure trademarks on all these different versions.
01:19:58
Speaker
I don't know how true that is, but it'd be funny if it is. Yeah. Dude, it's an enjoyable flick. He acts like a giant child.
01:20:07
Speaker
when he talked to Zach. And here's why I like him. When he went on his rant after part two, people like, he's lost his mind. No, he didn't listen to him. He's right. Every fucking thing that he said about the movie, about the release, about everything I'm having, no one backed him up and shit. He's motherfucking right from start to finish. That was way better than people gave him credit for. And
01:20:28
Speaker
people like they just left him out there to fucking hang man like they just left him out there to hang like and then he wrote a tweet i'm on fucking twitter but like i see this shit come through he wrote to henry after him was bought back in the let go again he's like i'll see you in another universe man like zach levi was so about that character like he loved that fucking character and that to me says a lot about
01:20:51
Speaker
his enjoyment of making the flicks themselves. Like that dude was great. As that fucking character, he's Billy Batson all day. I love that fucking flick. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then after this, we got a 2020 birds of prey and the fantabulous emancipation of one Harley Quinn. This was actually number seven on my list. Dude, it's number six for me.
01:21:13
Speaker
I fucking love this play. The rewatchability on this fucking movie is so good. Because it's so good. That's a matter of number seven, the rewatchability, yes. Thank you. It lives in this little microcosm. It's just her. They didn't go too overboard. It's fucking, and yo, Ewan McGregor, as Simon, what a fucking, he's like, ew, she's boogery. Oh God, cut her face off. I was like, oh my God, man.
01:21:37
Speaker
Um, the only, the only reason why this movie is in six and not higher, Cassandra, the chick who played me, she couldn't act. She was shitty. They didn't even have to make it Cassandra Cain because she was not an assassin. She was not you. Why did you make her some other chick? Who fucking cares? Like you didn't have to use the name.
01:21:58
Speaker
Because people are going to look at it and go, so you just gave her the fucking name. She was the worst dude. The only reason I'm some days I want to watch that movie just randomly. And the only reason I'm like, I'm gonna watch something else is because she's in that fucking movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree completely. Like, I mean, I, I love Cassandra Cain. She's my favorite Batgirl hands down.
01:22:19
Speaker
utter disappointment of what they did with that character. I mean, so so annoyed by that. And also, I didn't quite like that. I like Mary Elizabeth Winstead. I didn't think she was a good fit for Huntress. But again, divorcing it from the comic stuff like I'm trying to do, she did she did a fine job in that aspect. Have you seen Cape? Cape? No, Cape. She did an actual movie on Netflix called Cape.
01:22:45
Speaker
Listen they probably made her act like that because she's very like can't be super like oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I Saw, okay, and I actually met her at comic-con I managed to get out one thing to her cuz they take a picture a she is fucking stunning and
01:23:01
Speaker
And I went up I was like Kate should have been how how Huntress was played she's like I love fucking Kate like dude the movie it's raw it's fucking I swear to God you make that a Huntress movie I'm in fucking 24 hours a day I think that she had to act like the trophy cuz it's a fun movie it's fucking goofy and shit like that she's planning her lines in the movie or a
01:23:24
Speaker
in the mirror but i thought canary was awesome i love montoya in this flip you know i got the shirt that says i shaved my balls for this every aspect of that movie was is fun the rewatchability on that fucking movie is so good and if you look at the more goofy side of the birds of prey that's them
01:23:42
Speaker
It's fucking perfect. They can handle this shit. They're never going to handle everything up here. They're not going to handle shit down here. They're going to be right in here, and they can live in their own microcosm, and you can put them wherever the fuck you want in the DCEU. I love that flick. Yeah, it was great. And I love the Harley vision that she has when she's in the police station. The police vision was so good, dude. It was great. That's with the cocaine.
01:24:10
Speaker
And oh my god, I have never wanted an egg sandwich more than I did after I watched this movie When hops always came out with her figure One of her accessories is a half-open tail hanger chocolate cheese sandwich I was like, that's awesome and the fucking bean bit cuz again she doesn't want to kill anybody and you know what it's like I
01:24:32
Speaker
People was, well, why wouldn't Batman show up to the GCPD? Because Harley Quinn's chaos, dude. They didn't know she was, there was no plan for that. She's like, I'm going in there, boom, kicks over the door, doesn't kill anybody. And it's great, because every time she hits them, like glitter fucking flies out, and she's like, this is G, I love that fucking movie so much, man. Because they weren't trying to be anything. They weren't trying to be anything. They weren't in competition. They were like, we're going to make a fun fucking movie from start to finish. And they did. They did. They made a crazy fucking flick.
01:24:59
Speaker
Now, unfortunately, we had a massive drop-off from here because after this, we got Wonder Woman 1984. And I don't know what happened because you had such an amazing creative team in the first one. They're all back for the second one. And I subscribed to HBO Max for this shit.
01:25:24
Speaker
Right? Because they were not, this is what got me to subscribe. Yeah. This is what they got me to subscribe to HBO Max because they said like, Oh, we're going to be releasing same day releases. And it's going to start with one from 84. I'm like, okay, well, that's it. I'm subscribing. We rented out a theater because it was during COVID times. That's how bad we wanted to save.
01:25:41
Speaker
because I said that if it's anything like the first one, which, a little tidbit of information, I don't know, Anthony told me. The first one, Patty Jenkins is listed on that, but there was like 15 screenwriters. They couldn't fuck, and that movie came together so good. This one, she had all the control, and someone shoulda ganked that fucking, that was, wait, so where's it on your list? So this is number, this is number 14 for me.
01:26:07
Speaker
Yeah, this is 16 if I could have made it 20 and put random shit in there I would have this movie made fucking no sense There's a bunch of shit like she pretty much psychologically rapes some random dude the entire fucking movie um They they sell you cheetah
01:26:25
Speaker
In the preview, we don't get Cheetah till the end. She fights for about six seconds and then the whole fucking thing. The gold suit gets fucking torn apart so she can fly the shit way that they bought in the entire fucking movie. Okay. Bruce has to fucking expend everything to get one picture of her fighting the Kaiser in World War I. This motherfucker's whipping around a mall in 1980. Motherfucker, I worked at Blockbuster. She has cameras. She goes to fucking White House.
01:26:54
Speaker
Those cameras, those cameras, you break the camera, it doesn't stop the VCR running in the back with all the information. But when they see Superman like, this is fucking fantastic, motherfucker, it's 1980. So my motherfucker seen Superman go, bitch, we had a woman swinging around a fucking mall when it go last over 30 years ago. That movie was dog shit from start to finish.
01:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there was any redeemable besides Kristen Wiig, who I didn't think could pull that off. She was awesome. She was great. Yeah. In fact, for way too long to get the cheetah that we wanted.
01:27:33
Speaker
The only thing that made this number 14 on my list were Gal Gadot and Chris Pine, their chemistry together, the creepiness factor aside, which you are absolutely right about that, and Kristen Wiig. Those are the only things that got it as high as it did.
01:27:50
Speaker
um but and even like the way that she solves the the whole crisis and all that i'm just like how does nobody know who this woman is this doesn't make any sense like none of this thing this is completely separate from the the rest of the continuity and it's just
01:28:07
Speaker
And the whole idea of her pining over Steve Trevor for decades, and yet being active as Wonder Woman, none of this makes any sense. I'm like, if you want to have her retreating from society or something like that, and then she doesn't come back until Batman v Superman, fine, great. This movie should have been sent after Justice League. She won't share a cab?
01:28:30
Speaker
Yeah. Really? A camp? That's how much... Now, it's supposed to be this women empowerment movie. She can't move her life forward? Cause some fucking dude that she knew, let's face it...
01:28:42
Speaker
About four months maybe and this is supposed to be your women empowerment movie. So Here's the women empowerment movie in a nutshell Wonder Woman the person with the same skill set as in the only Weakness that Wonder Woman has is Superman as shown when Batman brings him down or he goes Clark open up all these things He'll open up. There's a vibrating bomb for flash and stuff like that. They open up Wonder Woman's it is empty He goes what the fuck is this Batman?
01:29:07
Speaker
That man's like, she's got no weakness, man. She's just like you. She don't have a kryptonite. If she goes AWOL, you're gonna be the one to take her down. So you have the most powerful woman in the fucking continuity, not moving on from her life for fucking 40 years, then having this pit pat thing with probably one of the smartest women in Kristen Wiig's fucking character, which they should've went with the first cheetah, but that was my whole fucking problem. So now instead of her being like, no, I'm me, I'm smart, I don't give a fuck about dudes,
01:29:35
Speaker
She just wants to look like her. Oh my god. She's so crazy. She's so so your women empowerment movie is one woman Not liking another one because she's better and this one not fucking moving on past her life for fucking 40 years Yeah, come on, man Have you ever read this is gonna sound like a real out of left field, but I promise it's connected Have you ever read Atlas Shrugged?
01:30:01
Speaker
Yeah. And right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it was fun. There's this one, you know, description or something. I loved it. That's saying like, you know, I can't believe that this character in Atlas Shrug was written by a woman because she is the most stereotypical misogynistic vision of a woman ever. I felt very similarly about how Diana is written in this movie and how she does written in this movie too. Like it's just, I cannot believe a woman wrote this and you know, maybe I'm stepping on a line here, but it just, it is, it feels so stereotypical.
01:30:30
Speaker
And this was, she had, if what Anthony tells me is true, she had complete control over his flick. Which means I'm glad she didn't have complete control over her fucking first one. Yeah, yeah. I think this just goes to show that, you know what? Film is a collaborative effort and it is good to have people who can reign you in.
01:30:50
Speaker
Yeah, because in the end, it's not like everyone loses their memory. That would be a fucking shit deus ex machina. That's what I thought they were going towards. I thought that's what they're going towards with that. Meanwhile, the world is still a mess. This one wakes up next to a cow. They all remember what happened. So at one point in Batman.
01:31:07
Speaker
in in superman superman shows up and martha kent jonathan none of them go well in 1980 we got a fucking wish made so we can have a fucking house on her no one remembers that shit this this this movie is what fucking begun the fuck up of continuity and people like it was harley quinn no it wasn't harley at least she mentions the joker you don't even fucking see him she lit she's working this fucking area this area in gotham man and nothing to do with her this
01:31:35
Speaker
This fucking fling was when they just said, fuck it, let's just put out movies as fast as we can. This one, fuck everything up for me.
01:31:43
Speaker
And then, so then after this, we get an upswing and we get Snyder's Justice League 2021 came out. And this one was, I've had a journey on this one. When I found out that he was talking about, there's enough footage for him to do his own director's cut. I'm like, you know what? I didn't like Batman V Superman. I didn't like Man of Steel, but I'm very curious to see what he would have done.
01:32:07
Speaker
And when I saw it, I had kind of a negative reaction to it. And I've rewatched it since, I think I've rewatched it like twice. Because I watched it one time, I decided to watch the, I think you talked about Justice is Grey on Anthony's show, right? Yeah, so after you guys talked about it, I'm like, all right, let me watch the Justice is Grey edition and slightly better impression of it. And then I rewatched it again, to prepare for this, because this was the one I was kind of the mixed up. And again, divorcing it from the comic stuff,
01:32:37
Speaker
It's a pretty good movie. It holds together very well. It's much better than the original ones. It makes sense. It makes sense. The cyborg stuff, I thought was great. Yeah. It was beautiful. Yeah. And so, but rewatchability is one of the factors I had in here and I'm not going to sit back. Well, of course. That's a four hour fun. Now, rewatchability in terms of scenes.
01:32:59
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Dude, not impressed was probably one of the greatest fucking cinemas. The boot that he lays on him afterwards, after freezing that fucking axe, was spine tangle.
01:33:18
Speaker
in the black suit, woo, man, listen, that whole fucking scene, that movie, like, yes, it was operatic, right? It was four and a half hours, five hours, it was in like four hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it's a lot of movie, so rewatchability ain't fucking happening. But the reason why, so it was number one for me, only, I think mainly for redemption, right? Okay. Scott Snyder was like, this is what I wanted, dude. People, when his girlfriend, what his girlfriend, when his daughter killed himself,
01:33:48
Speaker
Um herself people were talking shit. He's like, that's why your movies suck. That is ridiculous This is what you're gonna do to this guy Like this is what you're gonna do like all you want to do is put something out To be enjoyed and this is what you're gonna do So when he's got the thing in the beginning is like this was my vision This is how I wanted it to look this was everything if you just look at that like say
01:34:12
Speaker
that's the only thing that ever came out. It was just that. And we got nothing else. At least I'd be like, that's beautiful. It's a story. There's subplots. There's there's like, and it's very long, but it didn't. Like, I don't think it dragged. You got a little bit more Martian Manhunter. Did I like the fact that it was Martha? No. Fucking not really. But you get stuff that makes it. Martian Manhunter floating down at the end. Hey, man, I'm just telling you.
01:34:37
Speaker
It's not over, but there's no shit that we need to deal with. It was, it was, it was excitement, right? There was a lot of excitement in there. There was a lot of like, I would love to see where this is going, especially if you did an Elseworlds thing at the end and you have, um,
01:34:53
Speaker
Superman with the anti-life equation in him. And you have that apocalyptic... Dude, I love that so much, man. That image of the Joker, that Joker and me was haunting. He's got all of the Gotham fucking cop things that he's killed and shit like that. It was heart-wrenching. And he's like, I killed that. He's like, I'll fucking... Dude, Batman's cursing and shit. He's got guns. I don't know, man. It was dope. It was dope. I just fucking loved it.
01:35:19
Speaker
This was number eight on my list, even after, you know, separating from the comics and stuff. There's still some little problems I have. One is the rewatch ability, because I'm not going to be rewatching for four hours. There's some weird plot things here, like, you know, the black costume does look really cool.
01:35:34
Speaker
But I feel like there's it just there's no reason for it. Like, I think it would have been something if there were some sort of thing like, you know, it's a regeneration suit or something, some reason for why he decides to wear the black. Find it on the ship. And that's what he's supposed to get buried in. Like that's the only costume left or something like that. Like, if that's the only thing he's got in the in the fortress, fine. I would have bought that, too. But I didn't like that aspect. Mark will make some that one. Yeah.
01:36:03
Speaker
I didn't like all the slow mo, like we don't need slow motion of Lois delivering coffee. Yeah.
01:36:11
Speaker
everything with Barry still. God, I fucking hate Ezra Miller. And like when he rescues Iris in that scene, it's borderline creepy, the way he's like brushing her hair out. And then the hot dogs fly around, I'm like, this is weird, this is weird. That's like our imitating life too, because he, they, whatever. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yes, exactly. And I love Nick Cave or Warren Ellis. They make some of the most haunting, haunting,
01:36:38
Speaker
Dude, they did the road. They are fucking awesome when it comes to giving you that dirty, gritty, all hope is lost thing. That fucking score, that soundtrack did not match this fucking movie. It was awful. Dude, I was like, I can't listen to this. It was so bad. I didn't even know that it was Nick Cave because I really liked that dude. I was talking to Anthony about it. He's the one that brought it up to me. I'm like, you fucking serious?
01:37:05
Speaker
Some of the songs were on the nose. He'll come again. He's the king. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Dude, I was like, that's got to go. Also, the weird Scandinavian singers who are coming out, I'm like, what is even happening right now? Because I watched this movie when it came out. It came out late at night here in Japan. And I'm just like, what is... I thought I was sleep deprived and I dozed off or something when the Scandinavian singers came out.
01:37:31
Speaker
But parts that were obviously all the cyborg stuff is your redemption, right? But also Bruce Wayne knowing the language when he went to go find Aquaman, of course he wouldn't know the fucking language. And the first one they treat him like an asshole and this one he's like, of course I know your fucking language. He's Bruce Wayne. Why wouldn't he know the language?
01:37:53
Speaker
Characters I was like, that's awesome. That's the way it's supposed to be. Um Diana does not throw Bruce in this one They don't have that that thing but they don't have that they're there to help each other which I really like there was it's just like a lot of it felt more of a budding Justice League to me as opposed to we're just trying to do the Avengers part fucking for like that's right that Justice League felt like
01:38:19
Speaker
And also, but another thing I had a problem with is, like, I love the idea of Henry Lennox as Martian Manhunter. I love the way he looks in that last scene. But when he appears as Martha, it we're and like what he says to Bruce at the end, it gets the sense that he knows everything that's going on here. And yet he's sitting on the sidelines when he's as powerful as Superman. I'm like, you just basically told me Martian Manhunters are coward. And I don't like that. And that would have
01:38:43
Speaker
That problem would have been completely solved if they cut out the scene with him changing into Martha. I think if they'd cut that out completely, that problem would not have existed. Yeah, that was a big problem for me only because, like, yes, Martha would try to pull Lois out of the funk.
01:38:58
Speaker
There was one part that is shown in this that wasn't shown. She goes there every day. So the way I thought about it was the reason why the cops that she knows they're going to be there is because that wasn't her last day going there. What I thought to make it more haunting, at least for my aspect, she's told those cops every day that today was going to be the last day. She does that every fucking day. Like that to me would be something like, nope, you know what? Today, I'm not going to go tomorrow. I'm not going to go tomorrow. And she just keeps doing it.
01:39:25
Speaker
So yes, I wanted actual Martha to show up and talk to her. The fact that it wasn't, I was like, that was a fucking enormous letdown. Like that one really bothered me. Not enough to take it down only because the scale and scope of like the epic. But the fact of the matter is, is I was like, why, why wouldn't it be
01:39:46
Speaker
like Clark's mom, like why wouldn't it be her? Like it just seemed like of course she would take the flight out there. Her soon-to-be or almost fucking daughter-in-law doesn't want to fucking live anymore and has all these questions. Why wouldn't she show up? Yeah, that was kind of fucked up to me. Yeah, yeah.
01:40:02
Speaker
I also like that. I also don't understand the whole thing about dark side forgetting where the anti-life equation was. I'm like, dude, this is your main purpose for being. And suddenly you're just like, eh, I lost it somewhere in the universe. I can't remember. And it's like, ooh, remember. I'm like, it's not your fucking car keys, man. Also my prop, and I have the prime one statue standing right there. Love it. He's fucking annoying.
01:40:30
Speaker
dark side love the character he shows up he takes an arrow a couple fart so late and he's like I'm dead yeah and an axe which I actually like the irony that a man that a God's axe will cut a dark side or a man's axe will cut dark side but Steppenwolf's axe couldn't cut Superman's and it was from a
01:40:52
Speaker
the same angle, which I really like to, but Darkseid's supposed to be this fucking universe killer. And he shows up and gets his like, listen, I understand was a lot of them, right? But Darkseid is supposed to take on everybody. That's kind of his thing. He doesn't do shit. Like, he fucks up one green lantern. So we can see a green lantern there. He takes like a couple shots from, I mean, I guess that's Zeus. And it's just like, yeah,
01:41:18
Speaker
just bitches off that didn't carry the same, like, you know, Thanos, you're supposed to be afraid of, you know, because they're kind of similar in that respect. I wasn't afraid. Like, I don't think anyone had the fear of Darkseid that they should have. Yeah, I think Steppenwolf calls more of a fucking prominent Darkseid. And while also talking about, you know, again, going back to the visuals thing here, like that fight on Themyscira is unbelievably epic. Yeah, which Oh, just go back to
01:41:48
Speaker
Here's her Wonder Woman part two. I fucking said this to Anthony. You want her Wonder Woman part two? Here it is. Diana goes back home. None of it takes place in New York. She goes back home to fucking grieve, right? You get the original storyline, but in this one, Dr. Minerva goes and finds the shrine to, I forget the fucking God's name that gives her the power to become the cheetah. It's not a wishstone. It's the actual thing. And it's one cheetah, because every time she scratches someone, they become a cheetah. It's one cheetah running around the woods of famous,
01:42:17
Speaker
of Themyscira fucking up Amazons? Son, that's a fucking movie right there. It's hard getting that power and then taking little Amazon chunks here and there and you have a fight there. That's it. That's the only fucking movie you needed, but I digress. All right. So after this, we went to Suicide Squad, The Suicide Squad, 2021. This was James Gunn's debut into the DCEU.
01:42:43
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest, this was number one for me. This was my top one. Really? No shit. Wow, it's awesome. How about you? It was eight for me. Okay. Only because... Our number one and our number eight are complete switched. Yeah, but I love the fact that it was your number one though. Like, that's dope. Because all in all, it was dope. Starro? It's fucking great, man. It's great. I think a big part of my problem was a lot of the...
01:43:12
Speaker
The Red Heron, right? You think Pete Davidson and all these people and the fucking older dude, I'm fucking blanking on his name.
01:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, like, you have all these people, and then you get rid of them, and you're kind of left with this fucking core group, right? I think the reason why it did not rank as high for me as I, because it was very suicide, it was very Guardians of the Galaxy rated R. Like, that's what it seemed to me, was a ragtag group, ragtag fucking group. He was like, I don't want to do this, I want to do this. He just had the ability to say fucking show blood. Like, that's kind of what it was. And then again, you have this, this,
01:43:54
Speaker
this world-ending thing and no one shows up and I understand that's always good but like sorrows for fuck's sake like I understand it's not an island like that's cool that like you did that but rap catcher was cool I thought it was cool but then there was like weird redemption stuff where like all of a sudden you know like he's just like yeah you're right like dude the guy was raised a killer born to be a killer and he's like now I'm a good person like why did he need a redemption like why do all these bad guys need redemptions
01:44:22
Speaker
No, I'm with you on that, yeah. But yeah, overall, like I thought, I was not expecting to like John Cena as much as I loved him in this movie. Like, because when I heard John Cena, I'm like, oh, but he was amazing. I loved, again, I kind of slept on Peacemaker for a bit, but everyone was talking about it, and then I finally caught up on it. I loved Peacemaker. I thought that was amazing. Even Rick Flagg, I did not care much for Rick Flagg in the first movie. Like, I'm just like, eh, whatever, you know, Joel Kinnaman, you know, he's okay, but didn't really impress me at all.
01:44:51
Speaker
I cried when Rick Flagg died in this movie. Yeah. Yep. And I'm glad that he stayed. Pink Shark. Pink Shark. Oh my God. Sylvester Stallone is Pink Shark. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. It was, and I love the fact that they sent all of the people that they picked in to die just to take
01:45:11
Speaker
the focus away from the actual squad that was supposed to do the thing on the other side. And you got a Tamarind, you have Starfire's cousin, whatever the fuck, you have someone, you have this ultimate battle fucking warrior from a different planet, she gets her fucking arm blown off, she gets chopped up by a helicopter, it's chaos. In the first fucking five minutes of that movie, it's chaos. I just, I don't know, I think,
01:45:38
Speaker
Again, it was great flick, but the other ones I think I liked for more reasons. So the only reason why it's eight is because I liked other shit over that one. But otherwise, that was a fucking great flick, man. I do think it's fun how that both of our number one and our number eight are the complete opposite of each other. That's awesome.
01:45:55
Speaker
But after this, we got when the balance of power shifted in the DC universe in 2022 when we got Black Adam. And this was number 11 for me. Honestly, I don't know much about Black Adam. The comic books, basically all I really know of him is from the 52 series. That's all I've really read of him.
01:46:19
Speaker
I was never invested in the whole idea of Dwayne Johnson as Black Adam. I liked Dwayne Johnson just fine, but this character, just based on what little I know of Black Adam, he did not seem like a good fit for Black Adam. So he's...
01:46:37
Speaker
And like the original Marvel family books, he was just kind of the punching bag. Like he would show up and they'd be like, soiled again and like fucking fly away and shit. It was nine for me. And I think it's because now I don't know if this is true, but the Rock was like, you know, I saw like a brown superhero and I was like, I can relate to this person and shit. And like, obviously he tried to switch everything around. Like Rock was going for a power seat over at DC. He was, man.
01:47:03
Speaker
Come on, we made one call to Henry and almost changed everything. Everything, one shot. But I liked that flick, man. I thought Dr. Fate was fucking awesome. Dr. Fate, I loved.
01:47:14
Speaker
I love Dr. Fait. I do think that the relationship between Hawkman and Dr. Fait, they didn't create enough of that in the movie, where I felt bad for their breakup of friendship, obviously, because one died. I thought that was a little over the top, because it's like, well, they knew each other for this long time. Yeah, but your movie go where it didn't see that.
01:47:38
Speaker
So when they had this moment was like I was like it did it seem like you came out of.
01:47:45
Speaker
Nowhere and we know that's not the way it is, but I love the justice society as a whole There's all right. Well, the Justice League is gonna get on fucking uh on their lunch boxes and shit like that But we handle this shit and planetary is above us. They handle this shit. The authority handles this shit So I liked the group I liked that. I like the young kids. I thought it was cool because it's intergang It's a different take on intergang there's something like this one area which obviously cuz he doesn't let anybody in and out of that area um
01:48:13
Speaker
I love the fucking fight scene when him and Hogman basically throwing each other through the walls and like fate just keeps moving seats because he's like just let him get it out. Just let him get it out. It was 11-3, it was 9 for me. It was a good flick. You want to be getting that note and catching the fucking missile? It was just awesome. It was the rock being the rock, man. It was the rock being the rock. I thought it was dope.
01:48:34
Speaker
Also, I think this is another issue I have. I think that a lot of these movies are having is like, we're introduced to all this backstory that doesn't quite fit in. Where did the Justice Society come from? It's like, I thought Superman was supposed to be the first real superhero in this version. And then now we find out, oh no, Wonder Woman was swinging around malls in 1984. The Justice Society has apparently been a thing for a while. So it's just a lot of stuff just doesn't
01:48:59
Speaker
And as much as I love the Suicide Squad, right? We've got enter we've got manga out there. Where the hell is manga come from then? Yeah, that's just what I'm saying Yeah, like you have way too much going on but again at this point no one gave a fuck about continuity I said we got these movies on the slate
01:49:14
Speaker
put him out there. Didn't you fucking know what you do about just throw him out. But honestly, man, I and again, I've never been a big just society guy. I've only recently started reading the the Jeff Johns run of it. Never been a Dr. Fate guy either. But I would watch the fuck out of a James Pierce Brosnan, Dr. Fate series or movie or whatever. The same thing.
01:49:34
Speaker
I'll tell you what, Anthony said, I think it was Anthony or someone said that eventually, if this universe was going to work, the idea was the Justice Society or another Justice League was supposed to be Sasha Kai Supergirl, Michael Keaton's Batman, Walkman, and they were supposed to be over here. I would much rather watch that than a lot of stuff that's on the slate right now in James Gunn's universe.
01:49:58
Speaker
That would have been fucking really cool, man. I just thought an Elseworlds branch out when it was appropriate. I think that would have been really cool to do. So after Black Adam, we got 2023, and that was Shazam, Fury of the Gods. And like you said, this was one of your favorites. In fact, you
01:50:15
Speaker
gave me a more positive impression going into this because I had kind of avoided it and because of what everybody was saying and I'm like and I saw it popped up on Netflix over here and I'm like I'm not in any rush to see it and after you said no dude it's actually really good I'm like okay well let me bump this up now and yeah and I watched it and it was it was a lot of fun I didn't like it as much as the first one but this ended up being number 10 on my list and again not because of anything that was bad about it just because other stuff I like more yeah
01:50:42
Speaker
I gave it a seven. Dude, this was so low. I was like, I don't wanna fucking watch it. The antagonists, I was like, the fuck do I care? It's weird. Then I started watching it. There's so much heart in this flick. This is the time you actually see the family have problems like, hey man, I gotta move out. I'm going to college. I don't really wanna do this, man. They all played
01:51:07
Speaker
perfect kid parts with kids growing up so not only dealing with personal stuff girlfriends going off to college like having these like crisis of like who they are but they're also these fucking like these these these these superheroes and I love the opening
01:51:25
Speaker
I thought Helen Mirren is fucking awesome. Like Helen Mirren, like every time that like he threw her around, I was like, I wonder, cause she's such a good actress. I'm like, I wonder if she let him, she's like 80 something, but she would get thrown around, I think. Like that's how serious she is about her roles. I think Lucy Liu did great. Like I loved and the dome. The reason why they jumped up like two or three extra points is you can't get in there. No one else. So now super like whoever's watching it from afar, they go, I can't fucking get in there. So I'm just hoping for the best.
01:51:52
Speaker
Even something like that helps me go. I get this. It's right here. It's contained. You also have a family of superheroes, let them take care of it. Philly didn't like them. Then they like them. It just had a lot of fit like it was family heart. It was like the unicorn is fucking amazing in this. And like they show that was my problem with it. I want to see more unicorn action. It was scary as a motherfucker. But I liked how much beauty
01:52:23
Speaker
And, and, and message was in it, right? She's like, yeah, I'll lose my powers because I love you. And he's like, well, you're gonna love me like this. Like at first, she didn't care about him having superpowers. She's like, I just like to hang out with this kid. And it was like, you saw a lot of now I'm only
01:52:39
Speaker
Not only comfortable in who I am and my family unit, because now my family knows and we're all still in it together, but we're also in it together as this super family. So now our ties are truly together. I thought that movie was way better than people gave it credit for. It had a lot of beauty and like storytelling and it's a good flick, man. It was a good flick. I rewatched the fuck out of that movie. Sarah said the same thing.
01:53:06
Speaker
No, I agree. And like, you know, also just on a note on Lucy Liu, when we were watching it, my wife was just like, how old is Lucy Liu? I'm like, and we looked up her age and I'm just like, she is not age since I first saw her in Ally McBeal.
01:53:18
Speaker
Nope. I saw in Charlie's Angels and outside of maybe wearing different makeup. She looks exactly the fucking same. Yeah. Yeah. She's incredible. She but like, then I cared about them. Because then I knew that it was a family issue going on there too. So it's two different families who went in two different directions trying to fucking like solve a problem. I don't know, man. No, I liked it. I dug it a lot. Yeah. And
01:53:43
Speaker
And like, and I felt too that there was more interaction between Billy and his other siblings as opposed to just right. Whereas the first one, it was just like the Billy and Freddy show. Here we get a better sense of who all of them are. And I thought that was really well done. And yeah, just, it was very good movie. I mean, and again, the only reason it's number 10 is just cause there's other stuff I like more above it. Yeah, that's right. But then after this, we got, sorry, go ahead.
01:54:12
Speaker
I found stuff that I really like down at the bottom and I'm like, what? Like it's weird. So there's a gap. There's all the shit that I liked in order of what I liked about it and shit. I just couldn't fucking stand. Like that's really the difference. Like 10 doesn't mean I didn't like the movie. It just meant that there's other stuff that was better.
01:54:28
Speaker
That's the reason why I was down that low. So I have a feeling you're kind of going in the same route, which is cool. Yeah, very much so. And I that happens with my Marvel list all the time, because I'm just like, oh, like, you know, I'm looking down like, how come Iron Man is so far down on my list? I love that. I'm like, oh, wait, wait. We got like Endgame and we got all this other shit above it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like a.
01:54:48
Speaker
Yeah, great movie, lots of fun. And I heard from the original ending of this post-credit sequence, it was actually supposed to be the Justice Society coming to recruit Shazam. Well, that would make more sense. That would have made so much more sense. I think it was the whole Black Adam thing.
01:55:07
Speaker
I think it was that and the fact that Peacemaker was such a hit show, but you couldn't even implant the fucking bomb in Shazam's head anyway. If he's in Shazam's form, you'd have to do it in Billy Batson form. If he knew what she was up to, he would never fucking... But again, that's putting Amanda Walden like, she's the wall, right? She's got pockets. It's like the end of Black Adam.
01:55:32
Speaker
for. So there's stuff like that. But yeah, no, the Justice Society would make more sense considering how fucking old the characters. Yeah, yeah. So then after this, we got 2023 also. All these are in 2023. Once we got left up, The Flash. This was number 16 for me. Like I just and I just the episode we did on it just came out. God, I fucking despise this movie. It's just so bad.
01:55:57
Speaker
When I did it with Anthony, he started off going, I'm coming in hot. Not as hot as a baby in a microwave, and I lost my shit for like five minutes. This movie, outside of five really cool things, dude, poor Sasha Kaie carried the entire fucking marketing for this on her back, and she's getting paid back by not playing fucking Supergirl now.
01:56:19
Speaker
She was, she's playing with the figures. She's like showing up to everything. You couldn't have Ezra Miller. His jerk off ass is fucking going crazy. Fucking grooming girls are taking him across state lines. Michael Keaton's like, whatever man, I got to play Batman. But she, like, she took the whole thing on her back. And she was like, I had fun in this movie and it showed because I thought she was great.
01:56:37
Speaker
I don't think it's enough flashpoint for me for flashpoint, though. No, no. And I had said this again, our episode on The Flash just came out at the time of recording this, so I went into more depth in it there. But like, you know, Michael Keaton, perfect. I loved everything about him in this movie. He should not have been in this movie. Like, I just he should have been. He should have gotten that. We should have gotten him in Batgirl. We should have gotten a Batman Beyond movie. But this really should have been, you know, bring back
01:57:06
Speaker
I was thinking about this and I blanked on his name. The guy who played Thomas Wayne in Batman V Superman. The dude plays Megan.
01:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He plays the comedian as well. He's also the dad on Supernatural. That's him all day every day. That's who it should have been. Yes. Because that's who it was. And then you get my favorite incarnation of both Batman and Joker, which is Thomas and Martha Wayne. I got a custom Martha Wayne statue made because I knew they'd never make her. I bought the Prime one.
01:57:38
Speaker
of Thomas Wayne and got a fucking Martha Wayne, I got it 3D sculpted by someone, I got it fucking printed out with the resin printer, I got it professionally painted just so I had one. Wow. That's what you should have did. Instead, for fan service, because DC realized their shit was like starting it, like fan dome was great, and then you bought it back because you wanted people in seats. Yeah. Because otherwise, you weren't doing it. And the fact that it made as much money as it did, I think had more to do with Bruce
01:58:09
Speaker
as Michael Keaton, but that's all you got. Because the stain on this fucking movie for Ezra Miller was enough to make people just say like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not supporting this fucking movie. And like, I don't know with everything surrounding Ezra Miller, even before you get into that, like their performances in both versions of Justice League, nobody was really raving about their performances. Why the fuck would anybody think we want double the Ezra Miller?
01:58:38
Speaker
And one is worse than the other. They're both insufferable, but two of them? Dude, they're not even funny.
01:58:46
Speaker
nothing about their scenes was fucking funny. And then you take the people in the lab who in the comic were really well put together. Then you have like the one dude like picking up his leg and you see like, Crundle, like on the couch. I'm like, guy, what kind of fucking movie is this? And like the Eric dude was the Eric Stoltz thing and Back to the Future. I'm like, okay, that's cute. But then you kept dragging it out. And then it's like Kevin Bacon's in Top Gun. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Like, it was funny. This is the very definition of beating the horse to death.
01:59:16
Speaker
Yeah, the CGI looked unfinished and the director had the gall to be like, that's what it was supposed to look like. Really? That's what it was supposed to look like?
01:59:26
Speaker
Because those babies look like something out of fucking nightmare fuel. And you already have babies falling out of a building, then there's the double jeopardy of like, syringes are falling on one, a brick is falling on the other. What the fuck are we doing? Like, what is happening in this? And then don't even get me started about the CGI with the sand people that look like my son made it on fucking Minecraft. The fucking dude was terrible. They bastardized the flashpoint.
01:59:54
Speaker
um, story just to make this. Yeah. And I could, Tom Cruise, just the best fucking, uh, uh, super, how much did they pay these people to say this? Yeah. Because there's no fucking way that anyone thought that was a good flick. None. Absolutely no. And just like the choices for cameos are just so bizarre in this. I'm like, you've got
02:00:17
Speaker
You are spoiled for richness as far as like DC cameras. You could have bring in, right? You could have, I mean, Ezra Miller appeared in crisis. You're telling me you can't get Grant Gustin won't appear in this. Like you tell me you can't get John Wesley. That's fucked up. That's fucked up. They showed all of these, all these multi-verse versions. You don't, you don't give my man Grant Gustin.
02:00:41
Speaker
the fucking arrow guy on his back. The only show that anyone watched like that over the course of fucking whatever was 11 years, nine years. Yeah, you put him in. How fucking dare you? Yeah, that's what it all it is, man. It's like, how dare you? Instead, you get, you get a one note joke of Nick Cage fighting a spider
02:01:05
Speaker
who the only people who appreciated that fucking Joker, the people who saw Evening with Kevin Smith. I loved it, because I thought it was great. Sarah's sitting next to me, she's like, the fuck is Nick Cage doing like a spider? I'm like, that's what 90% of the people in the theater said, because they don't know that fucking story.
02:01:20
Speaker
I mean, like the whole crisis did the multiverse thing so much better with their cameos. Even the one episode of Titans where Beast Boy goes in the multiverse and he talks to Grant Morrison. They did a better job at just that one scene than this whole thing was. I mean, it was cool seeing the Nick Cage thing, but it was obviously way too drawn out. I love seeing the George Clooney cameo at the end. I thought that was hilarious. Which I've heard.
02:01:44
Speaker
oh it may not be true apparently someone tried to get christian bale and he's like fuck no and that was it that was i was like but that doesn't make any sense the batman and and the nolan verse aren't
02:01:58
Speaker
That's not even elsewhere. Leave them the fuck alone. They're different birds altogether. You can't have any of that shit. Of course he was going to say no. And besides, that's fanservice anyway. No one gives a fuck. Like at that point, people didn't like the movie so much that they're like, oh, look, it's Clooney. And again, Sarah's like, the fuck is George Clooney doing there? Like, yeah.
02:02:18
Speaker
Yeah. Trust me, it's not like now if there was a post-credits scene in a multiverse of a Marvel movie and an older Tony Stark shows up at the end and people would lose their shit and cry and name their kids after him. George Clooney's like, fucking cares. That's essentially what it was. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I liked it, but I understand that point is well taken, though.
02:02:43
Speaker
Just like the way they did the flashpoint story and just like I mean you've got this they also set themselves up with a problem They know they couldn't solve because you've got this Kryptonian army You know that you can't solve them with just with the flash and and and all just these people alone So why are you even going down this route to begin with right? Why not do the flashpoint story? Why not bring in reverse flash? I make help bringing Tom Cavanaugh to play the reverse flash and it is like a twist That would be amazing
02:03:09
Speaker
Instead, you make it the same Barry that ran back and forth. It was the reverse flash anyway. You could have just did that. You could have did that. But no, dude, make reverse flash Grant Gustin. Put him in the fucking movie. Yeah. Oh, that would have been cool. You know what I'm saying? At least make it. Because as soon as this thing showed up, I was like,
02:03:30
Speaker
That's gonna be it. Like, it's not even like a fun figure it out. It was like, no, don't do that. Don't do that. And then they did it. The two things I like about the flick were, number one, I love how S1, but like, I love how the Superman aspect of it played the same. They lock him up, or in this case, lock her up. I like the silo fight. I think the silo fight with,
02:03:57
Speaker
with Batman was on par with the warehouse fighting Batman. That was great, man. That's Michael Keaton in this fucking element. It was awesome. And I love the fact that they finally realized like, no, these people are gonna die no matter what. Like we can't, like there's nothing we can do. Like this is a moment that just has to happen. I liked that of it, but it wasn't enough to make me like this fucking movie is anything else but shit. It's shit, dude. It was a terrible flick. So yeah, so again, this is number 16 for me. Where did this rank on your list?
02:04:27
Speaker
14. Only outdone by the Justice League, because it made no sense. And Wonder Woman 84, because fuck that movie.
02:04:35
Speaker
I mean, I went back and forth over if I wanted Wonder Woman 84 or if I wanted Flash, but because I love the Michael Keaton stuff in it so much. And even like the Ben Affleck stuff. I thought that weird freaking armor thing aside, I love Ben Affleck in this. And so apparently,
02:04:58
Speaker
Ben Affleck was in that like, the reason why his voice sounded different, which I heard fucking afterwards, reason why his voice sounded different. And the reason why he looked different in the motorcycle scenes is because that was the stuntman. So much so that when hot toys put out the because of course, hot toys money grab, right? When they put out the the Batman from the Flash movie, it's not even Affleck's face. It's a completely different chin and everything.
02:05:22
Speaker
That's why I was like, dude, that's not Ben Affleck. She's like, that doesn't sound like him. I think they just forgot to overdo the voice, and they're like, fuck it, just leave it. Just leave it. Because at that point, it's like, what the fuck? Yeah, that movie was such a mess. And you know what? I know Anthony has been giving James Gunn shit about saying, why do you think this was the greatest? I can kind of see James Gunn's point. Like, Zazlov's a petty bitch. He's got to say that. He's like, I'm just going to say this, because then everybody's going to forget about the movie. Then I can just do work in this.
02:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, like, look, Gunn just got the job. Just got the job. I know it's a him and Safran thing, but WB is always in this process of fucking imploding. James Gunn will put up his slate the next day and be like, what'd you say about the Flash? I'm fucking out of here. We'll continue to put out bullshit for the next 10 years. And I'm convinced that the only superhero movie David Zasloff has ever watched is The Dark Knight, which is why he tells everybody, say it's as good as The Dark Knight. No.
02:06:16
Speaker
But anyway, after this, we got a bit of an upswing. The DCEU ended on kind of an upswing, actually. Blue Beetle was number four for me. Nice, dude. So again, it was 11, but only because of the little aspects of stuff. And I wasn't into the Iron Man formula of it.
02:06:38
Speaker
Oh, that's fair. Where it was very typical of like, the iron monger, like, and oh, Matt, like, I love oh, Mac. I didn't think that that had to be. Oh, Matt, like, I didn't like that. Make it something else didn't have to be oh, Matt. But I like the flick though. I love the family aspect in that. I love like,
02:06:56
Speaker
I love where they live and the closeness of it. And Kord is trying to take over. It's just like, it was a cool flick. Grandma with the gun at the end, she's like, you don't know what the fuck I've been involved in. I was like, it was a good, strong,
02:07:09
Speaker
It was a fucking fun flick and I'm upset that we're not going to see what happened with the original Blue or with Kord in the future because clearly that's either boost or gold. I thought it was boost or gold. I thought it was boost or gold as well. Yeah, it has to be because he's I know where he is. He's not fucking dead. I loved
02:07:27
Speaker
like the beetle cave with like the old school shit. It was good. It was a fucking fun flick, man. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was so much fun. And like, I've never been a blue beetle fan. I've never read the Jaime Reyes anything at them. I've seen him in like, you know, Young Justice and stuff like that. And I'm just like, I don't really care. And, but
02:07:47
Speaker
I mean, I'm not going to say the guy's name because I know I'm going to mispronounce it. But the guy from Cobra Kai, oh my god, he's so good. He's so good. Oh, that's great. Susan Sarandon basically playing Hillary Clinton was hilarious to me. Oh, god, dude. Like, she was good. Like, it was good. And I liked the little redemption arc of, like, the head Olmec guy. I thought that was pretty cool, too. But again, it had shades of Iron Man fighting Iron Monger, same kind of way, same bomb thing. I was just like, eh, I'm going to do without that.
02:08:17
Speaker
But it's like when everyone else, everyone's doing the HUD look, well, how the fuck you supposed to show someone fucking armor, dude? Like, of course they're going to use that. It's smart. It's kind of like whenever complaining about Dr. Fate always splits himself, like, but it's magic, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. Like, he's got to hold someone down.
Emotional Film Moments
02:08:32
Speaker
He's going to split himself. Like, that's why people complain.
02:08:53
Speaker
I thought it was great. When he comes to court, he's like, oh, I have an appointment. And like the typical like white, okay, Jamie, I was like, first of all, she didn't even see his name to call him that with a J. And second of all, like, why you got to do that? Like, it's like, no one, no one, like, that doesn't happen anymore.
02:09:02
Speaker
Go, man. Just enjoy this.
02:09:16
Speaker
in terms
02:09:35
Speaker
that family and the love of their culture and the love of their generations and stuff in that house. So why the house is so important. The part with the dad had me in fucking tears. Oh god, I was about to mention that. Yeah. Oh, dude, that was tough. Yeah. And I'm like Anthony in that respect. I used to watch movies with dad son stuff and I'm like, that's dope. Now I cry. Yeah, I fucking cried. That was a rough one. That was a rough one. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.
02:09:57
Speaker
Yeah. And also, you know, yeah, I'm a huge Final Fantasy seven fan. And so seeing when he generated like the cloud sword, I'm just like, yes. Yeah. All I wanted was it was two pieces of material. They didn't have to do anything. That was awesome.
02:10:15
Speaker
Man, but yeah, so that was number four for
Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom Review
02:10:17
Speaker
me. And then we got the last one Aquaman in the Lost Kingdom, which This was number nine on my list. Like it was 10. Yeah, it was so good It jumped up like seven spots pretty much instantly. It was a good flick and unfortunately I was talking to Sarah. I'm like unfortunately Amber hurt like that's she does such a good mirror, dude Every I love the casting in that flick even William Defoe. Um, oh my god, um
02:10:43
Speaker
um as volkov in the beginning yeah yeah in the first one dude and they're good looking movies they show under the sea stuff really fucking well i've seen horse in the beginning oh my god that was that was so damn cool yep and then fucking uh um the battle octopus yes um i think i have two like stupid qualms with it like one is when the kid starts talking to the fish
02:11:09
Speaker
Why the fuck was Arthur astounded by that? Bitch, you talk to fish, and your wife's a fucking watermancer. That was really that shocking. He's like, that's incredible. Really? That's incredible? Him talking to fucking fish? That's incredible. But stuff like that, I let go, because I really enjoyed that. Orm had the cool redemption arc, and they didn't bring him right back. And they're like, play low. You're good. Just, we'll say you died. It was really good, man. It was a good flavor.
02:11:35
Speaker
Nicole Kidman too, I loved her in both. I didn't mention her when we talked about the first one, but yeah, I loved her in both of these too. Yep. I thought it was going to be more trench, like the actual, like, you know, like, because I thought like, as soon as they started digging really deep, but I like how it was, because we saw that flashback in the first one, right? Where they talk about the one big fight between the two sides. Yeah, yeah. It was the Lost Kingdom. I was like, that's really cool. And of course, we began cities called
02:12:02
Speaker
The fuck did you expect? There's a law on the nose, right? But dude, we just watched it. Actually, that was the last flick I had to watch. We finished it a half hour before I did this fucking podcast. I'm glad I did, man. I'm glad I didn't wait. It was good flick. I didn't care about seeing it. When I saw it, I'm like, I'm really glad I did, because it was enjoyable to shit. Same here, yeah. I was the same way. I'm like, well, what's it matter now? But when we got to it, I'm just like, man, yeah, this is really solid. I like this a lot. So yeah. Go ahead.
Ranking DC Films
02:12:31
Speaker
the thing that probably lost about three points for it, he makes this beautiful speech at the end. This fucking incredible speech about how we, which they don't know he's Aquaman. He's been in the Justice League. The motherfuckers been on TV. They don't know what the club is, but he's like, he makes this awesome empowered speeches and I'm Aquaman, woo! And that's where it ends. I'm like, mm-hmm.
02:12:52
Speaker
Dude, you should have just cut that out. That speech is awesome at the end. And then they make him be a fucking idiot. Yeah. Yeah. At this point, I think it was just that, you know, it's like, that's the last movie. Who cares? Type of thing. He's on his way out. It doesn't matter. And then fucking and then Orm is eating the burger, but then eats the road. So I thought that was pretty fun. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, also, we didn't mention, but Randall Park to Randall Park is hilarious. I love Randall Park.
02:13:17
Speaker
He's real life multiverse and he's fucking in Marvel NDC. He's having the best fucking time ever, man. Oh, yeah. All right. So that's basically what works. So let's do a quick recap of our list. For me, I had number one was the Suicide Squad. How about you? What was your number one again? Zack Snyder's Justice League. Zack Snyder's Justice League. My number two was Aquaman. Two was Wonder Woman, the original. My number three was Wonder Woman.
02:13:46
Speaker
My three was BBS. Okay. And my number four was Blue Beetle. My four was Man of Steel. And my five was Man of Steel. Mine was Aquaman. And then number six, I had Shazam. My six was Harley Quinn. Okay. Seven was Harley Quinn for me. My seven was Shazam too. Number eight was the Snyder Cut.
02:14:14
Speaker
My eight was the Suicide Squad, we did the one eight flip. Right, yeah, yeah. Number nine was Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. My nine was Black Adam. Yeah. Number 10, I had Fury of the Gods. My 10 was Aquaman too, which honestly was probably nine. It's probably above Black Adam. Dude, the guy who played Black Manta, man, he should have guys. Oh yeah, Yaya Abdul-Mateen and Dr. Manhattan in the Watchmen TV show too. Oh God, I know, I know.
02:14:43
Speaker
Then number 11, I had Black Adam. My 11 was Blue Beetle. Okay. Number 12, I had Jostis League. My was Shazam. That's 12. 13, I had BVS. My 13 was Suicide Squad. Yeah. 14 was Wonder Woman 84. My 14 was The Flash because we did a 14-16 flip, I think. Yeah, yeah. And Suicide Squad was number 15.
02:15:11
Speaker
Mine was the Justice League. And then the Flash was my number 16. My 16 or my 20 or 40, because I would just put random... Dude, I put 2B movies in front of that fucking flick where there's Wonder Woman 84. That was my 16. All right.
DC's Cinematic Strategy Debate
02:15:28
Speaker
So I guess finally thing to close off on. Overall, what kind of do you think would have been
02:15:35
Speaker
Would you have rather seen like after Man of Steel, like a slow buildup to stuff or would you have rather seen like after the Snyder cut, the whole five movie plan that Snyder talked about?
02:15:49
Speaker
I'm only gonna use the Marvel bar because it truly is the bar, right? You have a bunch of movies that establish the people with little, like little, but ones that make sense, right? You can have one room in 1984 and then people freak out when Superman shows up in fucking 2016, right? You can't, it doesn't make any sense. Show me the individuals, they're gonna bring them all together. The only thing that people could have said at that point was Marvel did it. Okay, but in order for good storytelling, everyone has to do it.
02:16:19
Speaker
So I would have liked him to pump the brakes. We would have got more of this universe for a little bit longer, I think. I think it's a little too early, even though it's a decade later. It's a little too early to wipe the slate clean, kind of, because you're still keeping like his toys, like he's keeping his people and get rid of everyone else. I don't know. I'm a big fan of that. So yes, I would have liked to see it stretched out a little bit more.
02:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, as much as I love Peacemaker and as much as I'm glad that we're going to get another season of that, you could have made that in Elseworlds. Like, you didn't have to have it as part of the new DCU. So yeah, I'm
Future Roles for Henry Cavill
02:16:55
Speaker
kind of with you on that. I'm like, if you're going to be, you know, redoing stuff anyway, bringing in people over, I mean, like, give Henry Cavill a real shot, then. Yep. He was so excited. Did you see him in the interviews, man? Yeah. He was like, this is it. The cape.
02:17:13
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like, nope. But now apparently, like, look, I don't believe anything until I actually see it. Same here. Apparently, we're gonna tag him for Captain Britain, which honestly is your best bet. But in terms of power sets,
02:17:25
Speaker
I mean, there's no laser eyes and shit like that. But you kind of have the same. But you already established Black Knight. So fucking dude, I don't care, man. I'll watch that doing anything. I think he's really there's a there's a new rumor. And again, you know, again, I don't trust anything unless unless it comes stapled to an actual press release. But but there is a new rumor that he might be he might be up for doom, which I think would be very cool. Yeah. But you know what? I would love to see like I want to see him as James Bond.
02:17:55
Speaker
Like, do you see man from the next? Yeah, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. I'll watch him in anything. Yeah. He's just a good actor and he loves acting. Yeah, like he likes doing the roles. Maybe he's like The Rock. That's why like, people are tweeting. The Rock's doing too much. So hustling. Get down, you're blind. Now you're gonna shit on him.
02:18:17
Speaker
for wanting to move? Like, fucking do it alone, man. Like, that dude is in the record books, man. He was a fucking heel wrestler. And he talks about it all the time. $7 in his pocket, right? Now, like, look at what he's created, dude. Like, give the props where it's due. Like, stop telling people that working all the time isn't a flex if that is a flex for that person. Like, don't yuck someone else's young, you know what I'm saying? Leave the fuck alone. Like, trying to do his thing. Let him do his fucking thing.
02:18:45
Speaker
Okay, so that is the, pretty much the final, I mean, not this podcast final works, there's still movies that we haven't done individual episodes on, but that's like, you know, kind of a big wrap up on the DCEU as a whole. Yeah, mixed bag overall is I think what everybody can agree on.
02:19:04
Speaker
Yeah, but I think even listening to like Anthony do it, which of course we got to give love to Anthony does not go listen to fucking digging for kryptonite 17 other podcasts that he has um He kind of did the same thing like his bottom three his bottom four were movies that he couldn't stand
02:19:20
Speaker
And then it seemed like it was like, well, I really like these, but they just kind of went different. And I love the way we did the same thing. Like the bottom four was shit we just didn't like. And I was like, no, man, 10 was really good. But I like this other stuff. So when you look at it as a whole, a snapshot from the whole, he would all the inconsistencies. The movies weren't fucking bad, man. Like, yeah, they most certainly weren't as bad as everyone made them out to be.
02:19:41
Speaker
I mean, especially if you especially went again when you divorce them from the source material. And, you know, I just did an episode with my buddy Stacy and, you know, we're getting a little bit about the Snyder verse. And and I said, I'm like, you don't actually kind of. And I'm like, you separate them out. Like, obviously, BBS, I still got massive problems with. But, you know, Man of Steel, Snyder Cut, separated from their source material. They're good movies. Yeah.
02:20:06
Speaker
But I guess we'll see what happens with the new run, right? I mean, you got a bunch of shit that like he's taking a chance on, man, like the authority. I'd rather it be planetary. I think planetary is a cooler look for like this crazy overworldly, like we watch over all this other shit, but I'm a really big fan of Creature Commando. I love dumb manky. Like that's my dude. We talk about lifting and shit. Put me in a comic, which was fucking great. Oh, nice.
02:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, in issue one of Swamp Thing Green Hell, I'm one of the guys fighting. He's got my Hunter Thompson sleeve and book his son's name across the back of the guy's vest. It was really cool. Guy's fucking, he's awesome, but I'm also excited for stuff like the Amanda Waller stuff, because I know she's...
Upcoming DC Projects & Closing Remarks
02:20:52
Speaker
big player Batman and Robin I don't want it to be Damien Wayne but I know it's fucking gonna be cuz otherwise you'd have to tell a much different story brave in the bold the Green Lantern fucking TV show I mean I mean I just want it to make sense yeah that was the only thing I ever wanted from beginning just make it make sense and give me a
02:21:11
Speaker
Another Birds of Prey movie, man, because that shit was fun. Yeah. I mean, if anyone's going to come over, like, who stays on, I really hope it's Margot Roby. Like, I mean, she is. I think she is. I think she's keeping her head. OK, good. I hope so. Yeah. Well, like, look, even if you don't.
02:21:27
Speaker
Whatever. Like, again, it's like I said at the beginning, like, we got it. We wanted it when we were fucking growing up. We got a cinematic universe for everything now. Just, you know, appreciate what we got. If you want to change, talk about that. But dude, in order to be your hate thing every time you wake up, man, you need to chill out. You got to take a pill or something, man. You got to relax. You got to get a hobby.
02:21:48
Speaker
All right. Well, I think that's a good note to end on then. And it has been a lot of fun. And see, we can disagree about these movies and we don't have to fight each other over it. That's right. That is correct. But anyway, why don't you tell people where they can find you? I'm at real life Lobo on Instagram. It's really just pictures of me and my son and my dog and my wife clowning around.
02:22:10
Speaker
Some cosplay stuff in there and I'm on a not-so-secret dad's business with my friend Nate. That's my weekly show Go check out fucking that. It's just literally dad's talking about dad shitting person a lot and you know complaining about tick-tock and shit because that's like the poison
02:22:28
Speaker
Otherwise, man, enjoy whatever like go get fucking enjoy stuff. Like I know we talked about in the beginning, man. Look, I know you got all these ideas for scripts in your head, guys. And I know fucking Star Wars might not go in a direction. But like I said, you either have it, or you have nothing. At least we got it right now. We could talk about it. Just just be nice to each other, man. You can you cannot like stuff. And you can still have a conversation about it. And and and and
02:22:55
Speaker
and carry on the rest of your day without being a dick. That's really it. Okay. Yeah. Well said. As for us, we are superherosinafiles.com and supercinemapod on Instagram, blue sky and thread. So be sure to check us out there. And that does it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time.
02:23:18
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Superhero Cinephiles is produced by me, Percival Constantine, with the support of Zencaster. The show is created by myself and the late, great Derek Ferguson, our host, Emeritus. Visit us on the web at SuperheroCinephiles.com to listen to past episodes or find out how you can be a guest yourself. Support the show by visiting our advertiser links or click the Buy Me a Coffee link on the website to make a one-time donation. You can also support us by visiting Crowdfunder.com slash ParagonsComic. That's Crowdfunder with no E,
02:23:49
Speaker
and help support my superhero comic book, Paragons of Earth. We are SuperCinemapod on both Instagram and BlueSky, so please be sure to follow us. We'd also appreciate if you could rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and share us with your friends.
02:24:22
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.