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SCP Classic – The Batman (2021)
15 Plays14 days ago
The Penguin has debuted on Max to rave reviews, so this is a good time to look back at the movie that preceeded it—2021's The Batman. Listen back to Perry's discussion with John Bracich about this film.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
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Transcript
Bruce Wayne's Legacy and Gotham's Crime
00:00:15
Speaker
Some event, huh? Caught out the one guy in the city more reclusive than me. Thought you'd never leave the shoreline. Aren't you afraid someone'll take a shot at you? Why? Because your father ain't around. Oz, you know Bruce Wayne. Wow, is that right? His father saved my life. I got shot in the chest. Right here. I couldn't go to no hospital, so we showed up on his doorstep, operated right on the dining room table.
00:00:45
Speaker
kid hearing, he saw the whole thing up on the stairs looking down. I remember your face. You don't think that meant something he did then? It means he took the Hippocratic oath. Hippocratic oath.
00:01:06
Speaker
That's good.
Introduction and Personal Catch-up
00:01:11
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and bringing back a former guest and a good friend of mine, and that's John Bracek. Johnny, how you doing today? Well, hello there, Perry. I am well, thank you. Yeah, it's good seeing you again. How are you? I'm doing good, I'm doing good. It's good seeing you again, buddy.
00:01:29
Speaker
but Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. How's the kid? How's everybody? She's doing good. um Yeah, she's ah climbing all over everything. Waking us up at like, you know, six or seven o'clock in the morning every day, pretty much. But she's going to be kids. she's Yeah, she's starting to take. ah She's starting to move slowly, starting to walk. She's going to walk. Yeah, yeah. Well, today she's starting to walk. Tomorrow she'll be asking for the keys for the car. Yeah.
00:01:58
Speaker
Well, she's, um like like I was telling you before we started recording, we're about, we're getting ready to move soon. And the new place we've got has got like some hallways and stuff. So she can, she'll have more, she'll have more space to move around in. Whereas right now she's kind of kind of limited. Okay. um But she's doing good and ah wife's doing good. And the the soon to be baby number two is doing good too.
00:02:25
Speaker
Oh, wait, yeah there's a baby number two coming? Yeah, you didn't know about this? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. um We're due in um June, I think. Oh, wait, you did mention that. That's right. i Forgive me. I'm sorry. My brain these days, it's the lack of alcohol.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, I've been cutting back myself too
Spoiler Alert and Movie Length Discussion
00:02:51
Speaker
lately. But anyway, ah for for people who are listening and ah there's this episode is actually being recorded out of order. So I've had a few other episodes that are recorded before, but because this today we're talking about the Batman.
00:03:06
Speaker
And because it just came out I wanted to kind of front end this so. um And some of the other episodes you'll hear hear me making references to to things and so if you're confused all that that's why it's just we're doing a little we're doing a little backtracking here to with this episode.
00:03:24
Speaker
um but Like I said, we're here to talk about the Batman and it's still in theaters, obviously. So I'm going to warn you guys right up front. If you haven't seen the movie yet, if you're worried about spoilers, this is your warning. OK, if you don't want to be spoiled.
00:03:42
Speaker
turn off the the podcast right now go to the theater watch the movie and then come back and listen to us because we're going to spoil it so I don't want to hear anybody complaining about how oh you you spoiled it and it's like we warned you so you've gotten fair warning and now let's jump into it you've been warned yes oh and if you do go bring snacks go ahead yeah it's that's another thing you know and if you know, maybe make sure they're they're pretty salty snacks. Cause it's ah it's a long movie.
Unique Theater Experiences and Community Resilience
00:04:10
Speaker
It's it's three, ah it's like three hours long and it doesn't feel like three hours, but if you've got, but you may have to take a break in the middle of it to use the bathroom or anything. So just be prepared going in. Cause it is three hours long. Can we start the discussion with one little antidote? If I may. Sure. We walked into the theater and we were curious cause they were running a Batman snack special. Now,
00:04:36
Speaker
The Sawmill Theater is a family run. It's not part of a chain as far as I could tell. I live in a small town in the mountains of Arizona. And so it's one of these almost mom and pop operations. And they run, they'll run like, like for example, the Batman movie and next to it will be a movie from the 1960s.
00:04:56
Speaker
you know, they or they'll run, ah like when they had the Star Wars movie, they actually played Jedi and all the other older ones. okay they And not only that, they had the originals from when those movies came out. Oh, nice. Yeah. So anyways, so we walk into the theater.
00:05:16
Speaker
And there is the Batman snack special. Snack special. They normally don't offer something like this. And it came with a large popcorn. It came with what they call the Southwestern pretzels basket, which was basically pretzels with jalapenos in a nacho cheese cup, or your choice of just nachos.
00:05:44
Speaker
And it came with two a candy treats, okay? Which of your
Batman-themed Snacks and Fan Anecdotes
00:05:50
Speaker
choice, which was like, you know, you the usual fare you would get at the movie theaters, you know, you your, this the crunch, your Mike and Ike's, I mean, take your pick. And what had to be the biggest fucking largest,
00:06:08
Speaker
multi gallon, obesity, constructing diabetes, manipulating, expanding tub of soda. Oh, wow. Okay. I mean, this soda had to be a gallon or some Jesus mongos, humongous. Okay. Barrel of soda. Okay.
00:06:34
Speaker
Now, naturally, I'm not taking that, you know, but we saw some people take that. So you get, for a dollar less, you didn't have to get the the the tanker size of soda. So after it for regular, I got a normal sized soda. And oh, you also got a free soft serve. Okay. and They go all out. Oh, yeah, and for six bucks. Jesus Christ. Yeah, which was I thought I have a deal. Of course,
00:07:03
Speaker
ah you know, we were curious, and the guy says, Well, they've been hurting from the pandemic. You know, I come from a town just for you listeners to know, we're a good chunk of the peak population died off COVID. Oh, wow. thing Yeah, because anyways, I'm just saying the town is starting to try to rebuild. And so anyways, so we got to spend snack special. They get okay, one snack special for me. And I was sharing with my brother, I love my sister, brother-in-law,
00:07:33
Speaker
and her friend, Patty, who I'll call you that name, okay, who is a bigger nerd than you and I put together. I mean, this woman came in wearing a Batman t shirt from 1969. Oh, wow. Yeah, with the with the autographs
Long Movie Runtimes and Snack Necessity
00:07:50
Speaker
of the guy that played Robin. Oh, Bert Ward, Bert Ward, the guy that played the original Commissioner Gordon. Okay, he didn't get Batman, but she got Alfred.
00:08:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. That was Alan Napier, I think, right? No, Alan Napier was a Riddler. No, no, no, no. The Riddler was Frank Portian. Of course you're right, you're right. No, I think you're right. Anyways, well, anyways, and she got two other people, but I don't remember who the other names were. And for some reason, they kind of played Skipper from Gilligan's Island. I don't know how that happened. But anyways. Maybe he had a guest appearance on the show at some point. Maybe, maybe I don't know. They used a lot of, ce like they had a lot of big name celebrities who appeared as villains on that show. Well, yeah, I know. You'd be surprised. And there was one, well,
00:08:39
Speaker
guy named false face. It was rumored to be Frank Sinatra. Oh, really? um Okay. Yeah. But anyways, um, so we're all sitting down. And the guy behind the cut is you're gonna want to get one for each of you. And we're like, ah, now we can get by right. ah Of course, halfway, the movie is about as long as the movie Gandhi or Lawrence of Arabia without the intermission. Yeah. Right. I mean, we're talking Lord of the Rings long. Mm hmm.
00:09:09
Speaker
It was one of the rings that's long. I think the, at least the, and but first the the extended editions at least were, um I'm not sure about the the theatrical ones. Well, halfway through, my sister ended up getting more snack specials. Oh, wow. We ran out of food. Yeah. We ran, and everybody at the theater that was there, they ran out of food. I think the theater people purposely sold the salty snacks, so we'd come back for, ah you know, others. Anyways, so yes, folks, if you're gonna see the movie,
00:09:39
Speaker
sneak in as much food as you can in your pockets or go in and buy, hopefully they got a snack special. I know theater popcorn always tastes better than stuff you can get at home. something I don't know what it is. It's that, um I don't know what it is. It's that, it's that imitation butter sauce they use. Cause I remember yeah even here, like the, the stuff they, they have here, it's not the same as, as, ah as that imitate is that butter sauce they have in an America.
00:10:05
Speaker
When I was in high school, I worked at ah at a movie theater and they told us, when we asked them if they want, you know, any butter on it, we couldn't legally say butter. We could only say buttered flavor topping. Buttered flavor, it feels like the Pringles can't call themselves potato chips. Yeah, okay. Yeah, buttered flavor. And all I know is I had a friend named Joe Bellino in high school who worked at the Golf Mill Theater. And he says, you could use this stuff as motor oil.
00:10:35
Speaker
um either you could use it but But it tasted so good. I mean, you want to put extra sauce and goop on there and it's you know you you're a movie theater you want to take it all in. Yeah, yeah. But anyways, to the movie. Yes. So can I ask you a quick question before you go on? Go ahead. adam I'm sorry to be rude. Did you have movie previews for yours?
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, there were a few. There were none. Oh, really? You didn't have any. In fact, I had this kind of friend with two other friends have seen this and they're on different parts of the country, known previews, movie previews. Wow, that's interesting. No, we had previews in ours. It was, um we had we had the DC 2022 preview, which showed clips from, ironically enough, the Batman, but also ah the Flash and Black Adam and
00:11:30
Speaker
Some other one too, I think it was in there too. ah now Aquaman, Aquaman too. The Lost Kingdom, I think it's called. that They had some clips from that. It was like this, you know, the it was like a ah montage of clips. they They posted this up on, I think they did it for the Super Bowl, if I'm not mistaken, but but it's on YouTube. And also we had a trailer for Dr. Strange, Multiverse of Badness. um i think that was that I think that was it. I think those were the only trailers we had.
00:11:59
Speaker
I wonder if any of the theaters had trailers. Like I said, two other friends have seen it. One in Pennsylvania and another one in Texas. There were no trailers. That's interesting. He went straight to the movie.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know, maybe it's, maybe there's not a whole bunch of Warner Brothers content coming out this year. I don't know what it, I don't know, but, cause I know a lot of, and especially now because um they just recently announced that Flash and Aquaman have been pushed back to early 2023 now.
Matt Reeves' Batman Direction and DCEU Shift
00:12:30
Speaker
Cause they didn't have enough time to, cause the VFX um got delayed because of COVID.
00:12:37
Speaker
Are they trying to redo it like an MCU type of thing? Nobody knows for sure. Like there's tons of rumors floating around, but I think my impression is that if they're going to do it, flash would be like a way to kind of do like a soft reset of the timeline. So then they could, so then they'll still have like, um,
00:13:03
Speaker
What's the name? Ezra Miller as Flash, Jason Momola as Aquaman, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, um Shazam, they'll still have that. and then that'll But that'll allow them to do things like, you know, recast Batman or potentially recast Superman, because we don't know what's going on with Henry Cavill and to kind of like wipe the Snyder stuff under the rug, so to speak.
00:13:28
Speaker
I don't think they could include this Batman. He's too young. Yeah, I'm not sure, because this, it and based on what Matt Reeves has said to the director, it sounds like he's pretty intent on keeping this a separate thing. So I don't think they'd, I don't think they'd involve the Pattinson Batman into it. But anyway, let's but let's talk about about this movie. So yeah obviously this was originally supposed to be part of the DCEU. It was originally supposed to be directed,
00:13:58
Speaker
You know, Ben Affleck, when he was still Batman, he was actually going to direct, produce, coast and co-write, and star in it. um But he had a ah lot of reservations about it, and he had been in a lot of stress playing the role. and And he basically said, you know, I was worried that if i took that if I did this project, it would be so stressful that it would drive me back to drinking. and So that's one of the reasons why he dropped out of it. And, you know, I just want to take a moment and say that the the Snyder cultists online who are demanding that Affleck return, I mean, the guy has said, like, it's a danger to his health to continue doing this. Leave the man alone.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think I I'm as, you know, disappointed as anybody that he didn't get a chance to really show what he could do as Batman, because I thought he was I thought he did a very good job with the the crap material he was given. And if he had gotten the chance to to play the character to play the role as the character should be written, I think he would have been he would have been the best Batman. But But that's, you know, that ship is sailed now. So, so. There's no way. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way. I mean, we're going to see him in the flash, but other than that, that's going to be like his last outing. That's going to be his last garage Batman.
00:15:14
Speaker
Um, but anyway, uh, so once he was, uh, once he dropped out, they brought in Matt Reeves, who's done, um, some of the Planet of the Apes, uh, movies and, um, Matt Reeves had removed all the DCEU connections
Batman TV Adaptations Critique
00:15:30
Speaker
of it. And he decided to make this, um, an earlier story. So this is set in basically the year two era of Batman. Right. It's definitely not year one. I mean, because Batman.
00:15:43
Speaker
has been established to have the bat signal. That's not a new thing. Right. Well, he says right at the beginning that he's been doing this for two years. Right. And so, you know, yeah the police still hate him, but except for Gordon. and and And, you know, he shows up at the scenes. He goes to the police station i and everything else. Like, hey, he's been there before.
00:16:05
Speaker
and um But it's interesting you mentioned with, with the whole, we're going on with the universe. I, I know that they're setting up eight, I mean, they've already announced this on HBO max here. I don't know about in Japan that there's a Gotham PD. And no so the it it that's been canceled. The Gotham series cancel canceled, but they're going to be doing a penguin series. They are doing a penguin. Will it buy the same actor? Yeah. Colin Farrell is going to be playing the character still. Okay.
00:16:36
Speaker
That's disappointing about the Gotham PD. Yeah, but you know what? I mean, we already got Gotham, you know, a few years ago as, you know, as disappointing as that show was. And so it's like, b let's, you know, I'm kind of over the let's do a Batman show without Batman idea, to be honest.
00:16:58
Speaker
I mean, it's like they they keep going, they've been wanting to do, I don't know what it is about TV producers and doing a Batman show that doesn't have Batman, but they've been wanting to do this since before Smallville, right? Because before Smallville, it was actually originally planned to do a young Bruce Wayne series. and And then that ended up getting pushed aside and then they did Smallville instead, but then they went and they did Gotham, which was a young Bruce Wayne series. And then,
Gritty Detective Narrative and Riddler's Portrayal
00:17:26
Speaker
They did that. And then also, you know, we get, we get Batwoman, which is a world where Batman's missing. We've had Birds of Prey, which was a world where Batman was missing. You know, way back in the day, if you remember Birds of Prey, the TV show. You know, we had, we've had Titans, which has been, you know, a pseudo Batman show as well. I'm just like, you know what? We can, we're going to have Batgirl soon as well. And like, you can take a break from doing Batman shows that aren't Batman for once. The problem with the gossip show.
00:17:56
Speaker
to me. And I think I was one of the people that kind of kind of liked it because it was something to watch. This is back but about 10 years ago, or six years ago. It wasn't that long ago. It was more recently in Smallville. It came out like about, I think maybe about halfway into Smallville's run is when Gotham came out. right ah was There was too many coincidences. Oh, he's friends with the girl that becomes Poison Ivy. Oh, he becomes friends with the girl that becomes Catwoman. you know And then the guy becomes a Joker. Yeah, um the show was really, it and it was also weird because you you know you have all these villains showing up before Batman ah appears, which yeah which takes away from one of the big elements of Batman is that you know there's,
00:18:40
Speaker
him his present in Gotham as Batman is sort of the the whole theme of escalation that the Dark Knight touched on, which is hearing exactly yeah where that's what's bringing out all these crazies, um which I kind of like that aspect of it. And, you know, it's not a big deal, but you get rid of that. But also, too, you think about it.
00:19:00
Speaker
all these villains are adults when Bruce Wayne is still a kid. And so you kind of get this sense that, you know, eventually when you get to Bruce Wayne having done this for like 10 years, he's gonna be beating up a bunch of geriatrics. Yeah. That reminds me of that DC comic where they take all the villains who are now old. Have you seen that? I don't think so. It's basically a group led by Harley Quinn.
00:19:31
Speaker
was in her sixties. ah and like Killer Croc, is that his name? I keep forgetting. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Killer Croc, who is the husband of Catwoman who goes around in a, a, what are those scooters? You see seniors right in, and it's supposed to be taken seriously, you know? And like, ah you're right. Is this lady Harley?
00:19:55
Speaker
I think so. Okay. I haven't seen that. So I've heard of it, but I haven't I haven't actually read it, but i but I've heard of it. And is in our travels, Wayne Gretzky. Anyway. Yeah. But I mean, the whole thing, Harley Quinn's another character who's just kind of, I like her as more of a supporting character when she's the central character, unless it's like the the animated series. you know I don't think she's as Personally, for me, she's not as interesting to hold down. So um so let's go back to the movie now. Yes, yeah. In the movie, what I really loved about it was it was like a gritty detective novel. I mean, like a detective in detective comics for Batman. Yeah. You know, it it was sort of like it kind of reminded me of true detectives in a way.
00:20:47
Speaker
with a Batman theme. I liked how, and I know this has been said everywhere, always, I'm not being original here, how essentially a Riddler comes off like a Zodiac killer. And I think that was the purpose they did, because for those who are unfamiliar, the Zodiac killer left not riddles, but in a way, but he left messages with certain symbols. right And if you look in the movie, the Riddler makes certain similar symbols you know, and and leaves messages. And I just thought, you know, this was, it was a vet definitely an original take because the last time anyone ever saw the Riddler on the big screen was Jim Carrey's rendition of, right? There's no other one. Well, I mean, in Gotham, not on the big screen, but in Gotham, there was the Riddler, but it was, ah but you and he was pretty good. He was one of the few good things about that show was their take on the Riddler and that. But but and as far as as far as movies, you're right. The the last time was Jim Carrey.
00:21:47
Speaker
with Jim Carrey, and we're talking to completely, and I can't remember the name of the actor that plays him, but I thought he did a pretty swell job. Paul Deino. Paul Deino, what else was he in? He's been in a lot of stuff. um I'm gonna look him up and I'll i'll tell you some stuff, but but bay yeah he's been in a lot of stuff and go ahead.
Batman as a Detective: Realism vs. Immersion
00:22:08
Speaker
So while he was doing, the rhythm in this program, I like how they did the riddles.
00:22:15
Speaker
I mean, you see in the past, like, like, that the riddles are there just because, oh, he's the riddler. Not that it doesn't really fit into the movie. I mean, but in this one, it really does. And not only that, it goes in how, let's be honest here. He's there almost as a psychotic and not an anti-hero, but I honestly, it was not a one point spoiler alert again. I thought the riddler was the journalist.
00:22:41
Speaker
okay was going to to investigate because they show a picture of the journalist and he's got glasses right but it's not him obviously we all know that yeah it's one of the orphans in the wane orphanage he grows up to be uh an accountant of all things yeah um so um so yeah baldano he you probably the thing i knew him most from is little miss sunshine But he's also been in a lot of other things. He was in, there will be blood, cowboys and aliens, night and day, 12 years a slave.
00:23:15
Speaker
see the preacher will be blood I didn't actually see there will be blood so I don't know but his character was Paul Sunday Eli Sunday he was the preacher holy shit that wasn't oh now I know why they picked him because they got very it's very similar characters in a certain way in a certain way okay
00:23:39
Speaker
but One of the things you said is that, and this is one of the things, so I liked this movie a lot. I thought ah i thought it was really good. um I still have some quibbles with it, but first talk about the things I liked was I loved that this time we actually, like you were saying, that we see Batman as a detective.
00:23:57
Speaker
in this movie, yeah which is something the movies have seemed to pretty much avoid it. We got a little bit of it in you know the 1989 Batman, because we see like michael we see the aftermath of Michael Keaton's Batman investigating stuff, but we don't actually see him in the act of investigating.
00:24:16
Speaker
um right All the investigation stuff happens off screen, basically. There's the scene where he's he's thinking about um he's thinking about what the Joker's doing, and he said and he says any he and he he he says, like, Alfred, let's go shopping. And then later he gives the results that he's found to Vicki Vale. So we know that you know he's tested all these products, and he's found out what the Joker's toxin is.
00:24:39
Speaker
and the combination. So we know he's doing some detective work there, but we don't see the actual steps that he takes to make those leaps. And also in Batman Returns, again, a little bit at the beginning with the stuff with the penguin, um you you see there's a little bit, but but all this stuff happens off screen. um And then in Batman v Superman, we again got a little bit of a taste of it, but the problem is, is that,
00:25:07
Speaker
that everybody in that movie is so stupid that right the fact that he's not able to determine that it's Lex Luthor behind everything is ridiculous.
Desire for Fantastical Batman Adaptations
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, right. I mean, because it's, you know, Lex Luthor basically signs the, the, the Superman frame up job by using his own his company's own experimental bullets and nobody but Lois Lane is able to figure that out. And it's just when, which, and that you know, go back to what listen to when Derek and I talked about Batman v Superman because we went off on how stupid the plot was in that, but they do make an ah effort to show like,
00:25:43
Speaker
Ben Affleck's Batman is trying to do some detective work, but he's not really that good at it. So this is the first time when he, when Batman, at least in the in the live action movies, when we see Batman as a competent, intelligent detective. And I really liked that aspect of it. Well, I want to challenge that a little bit. You're right. But I'd say about 90%. I don't think he's 100% that good at it because it shows in the movie.
00:26:07
Speaker
as he's learning. I mean, it's like guess you said, he's on YouTube, right? yeah Yeah, or at least YouTube that he makes some mistakes in the movie. He does. But that's fine. I'm fine with that because for the most part he they show him as being competent. Whereas right in Batman V Superman, he just seemed like an idiot. Right. No, no, I agree with what I do. But I'm just saying it shows a more a level of realism that he is doing a detective work. But like real detectives They're not going to be the perfect detective. They're not going to be. Oh, yeah. You know, here comes.
00:26:43
Speaker
the You know, the Belgian detective from Murder on the Nile, where he, oh yeah, I pieced it all together before that first scene even happened. You know, this guy, he missed certain things. yeah And it shows as like a level of realism, you know, and you know damn well that he's learning from it. And he sees that he's, you see that he's learning from this, you know, that this fat man is going to evolve.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, i did I appreciated that for the most part, although one of the issues I had with it was the fact that um the the the mistake he makes is with this is like these basic mistakes with Spanish language. And I'm just like, yeah mean you could have easily figured that out by just double checking year your brief memories of high school Spanish.
00:27:31
Speaker
Or Google. Or Google, yeah. So I thought that was a, that was a little, bit I'm like, I get what you're trying to do. You're trying to show that he makes mistakes, but, you know, even Penguin's just like, really? Come on. And I think when you've got another character pointing out how your master detective has missed something so obvious, I think that's, that's a little bit of a problem in there, in the movie. Well, i don't forget he, that that final clue where it was literally under the carpet. Yeah. Of the Riddler's, you know, that's another one. That I thought was good, yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, so, but again, I think, cause you know, there's two more movies coming. Well, there hasn't been anything confirmed yet. Oh, well, you know, you gotta, I'm pretty sure they're gonna make, look- I'm pretty sure after, yeah, this movie has gotten very successful.
Joker Fatigue and Penguin's Mob Boss Portrayal
00:28:17
Speaker
So I'm pretty sure that they'll probably be doing something else. But, Matt Reeves went into this movie- They'll be setting it up, you know, Perry. Yeah, yeah. Perry, look at,
00:28:28
Speaker
When he goes, the minute that the Batman went into that hall, that room in the orphanage, and that camera is playing, and he's showing, you know, the Riddler talks about the families of Gotham being the Arkhams and the Waynes. I immediately thought of one other who could be the next villain, and I'm yeah i'm sure you know who I'm going to allude to.
00:28:55
Speaker
Okay, and it is the owls, the court of the owls. Court of owls, yeah. That's been that's something that's beenn' and been mentioned. Matt Reeves has also said he'd be interested in doing hush, which they also reference um because the the reporter was, um his last name was Elliot. So his son could be Thomas Elliot, who becomes hush. So I gotta ask you this. I gotta ask you this. I watched this and I said to myself, okay, I see the type of realism that they're going for it. I've been wanting to ask you, how do you feel now that the degree of really they cannot do, I think they're going, assuming now, this is all, could you know, speculation, okay, that assuming they do make two more movies.
00:29:42
Speaker
Do you think that the the way and way they're going about this, they cannot use certain villains that are too fantastic? like So here's now here's something that you touched on, and this is my biggest complaint about the movie, is that I am done, I am so beyond done with let's make a grounded, realistic Batman.
00:30:07
Speaker
I'm so done with this. we had the We had the Nolan trilogy. We did it. It's done. And one of the, as many complaints as I have about Zack Snyder and the DCEU and everything it is, one of the things that I love that he did was he's like, let's embrace the the fact that this is a fantastical comic book world. And he had Batman in the bat suit from the comics. He had him doing these insane gymnastic moves and jumping around. I love that stuff about it. And I'm a little bit disappointed that now we're rolling back to the Nolan era, we have to make everything very grounded. I mean, it this just goes beyond the Nolan era. It does. Yeah. And I'm just like, why? Why? I'm i'm so done with the grounded Batman approach. It's been done.
00:30:53
Speaker
And it was it was good for what it was, but let's embrace the fact that this is a superhero comic book about ah a guy who has more money than God, who dresses up like a giant bat. Let's embrace the fact that it's a ludicrous concept. But they're not going to go that route. I know, I know they're not, I know they're not, but I wish they would. You know, and you know i mean I know they throw some pieces here and there. Like we know at one of those final scenes, you know, damn well, the other guy in a jail cell was a joker.
00:31:23
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I don't think he's already said an IGN. I don't know if you've got an IGN, but that's not the next bill. He does not want to use the Joker at all. no And I'm glad for that because again, I also, as, as done as I am with the, with the idea of a grounded Batman, I'm even more done with the Joker. I mean, we're, we've had him, you know, we had Heath Ledger, we had Jack Nicholson, we had, you know, Jared, uh,
00:31:50
Speaker
Jared Leto. And then we had Joaquin Phoenix. Just like, let's, we had him on Gotham. Like there were like two or three different jokers on Gotham. We had him in, I think we're getting him in Batwoman now too. So it's just like, I'm done with the Joker. But I know penguin. we We know that. And this is a very, this penguin actually is more in common, oddly enough with the one on Gotham than any of the movie ones. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:32:20
Speaker
Okay. ah But I like how they are making him a mob boss. Yeah, which is really the effect. I'm making him i'd be quite honest with you. My brother who watched it with me said that guy reminded him so much of Robert De Niro's Al Capone. Yeah. Yeah. I saw someone else saying it reminded him a lot of the reminded them a lot of James Gandolfini and the Sopranos as well.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. but But yeah, I love what they did with the penguin in this. I thought the penguin was Colin Farrell, man. Like, you know, I don't know if that was a fat suit or or what, but he just completely disappeared into that character. You couldn't you couldn't tell it was him. No, not at all. Like i the entire even knowing it was him the entire time I'm sitting there, I'm watching this movie, I'm like, that's actually Colin Farrell. I could not believe it. It's I mean, knowing it as I'm watching the movie.
00:33:11
Speaker
Compare him to that, to how he was in Daredevil. Yeah. Well, I thought he was great in Daredevil. I liked him in Daredevil, but but I thought he was he was he was, he was one of my favorite parts of this movie. but The people who did the special effects, actually, the makeup, excuse me, on him should get an award. Yeah. So many people confused him for another actor. I keep forgetting his name. He's a comedian who had to go on Twitter and say, that's not me. You know, I think it's guys one of those guys that was in a lot of shows. OK, name. But anyways, college, the whole and I love how it's the third half, third part of the movie.
00:33:53
Speaker
He turns on felt coding when they find out was the rat. Yeah. Yeah, which I got to ask you. We've now seen how many versions of Falcone. What do you think of Totoro? I loved it. like I didn't know that Totoro was going to be in it until fairly recently. I'd seen the clip yeah the clip when he meets ah when he meets Bruce Wayne at the funeral. They had shown that on um online um like last month or something like that. And I saw that clip. I'm like, holy shit, John Totoro's in this. And he's playing Carmine Falcone. I thought he was great.
00:34:25
Speaker
i thought I don't know why he had to I don't know what was up with the the the sunglasses inside at night type of thing but but that aside oh I can explain that one okay he based that off of Carlo Gambino oh okay okay they interviewed him and he says he faced the tire character sweater everything off of the Gambino crime family boss who dated Marilyn Monroe. Okay, that explains it then because cause I know that in the comics, Falcone never did a never did that that sunglasses thing. So that explains it then. I was wondering where that came from. yeah But I thought he was great. I thought he was he easily my favorite version of the character that we've seen in live action so far. He was great. I thought he he played it.
00:35:15
Speaker
I like god a lot of mafia things. I like mafia history. And when I saw him with the sweaters in the sunglasses, I go, holy shit, he's playing Carlo Gambino. Yeah. but And that guy, if you ever read up on his biography,
00:35:31
Speaker
I mean, it's almost the same thing as Carmine, felt coat. I mean, including a daughter, well, his mistress didn't have a catwoman, but I mean, you know what I mean. Right. which I got to ask you about that. What did you think about Catwoman being the secret daughter of Carl Falcone? That comes straight from the comics. That comes straight from the comics. Yeah, that was established in. that I know I think it was the long Halloween was when they established that.
00:35:57
Speaker
Well, I gotta catch up on my Batman cover. I did not know that. Reeves, for inspiration, Reeves had looked at The Long Halloween was a big source of inspiration. ah Batman year one was a big source of inspiration, obviously. oh yeah Also, ah Batman Ego by Darwin Cook, that was another big source of inspiration for this.
Alfred and Bruce Wayne's Character Portrayals
00:36:21
Speaker
And you I haven't read Ego, but I have read the other ones and you can see those those elements in it. Also, even though it's not mentioned, um it looks like at least they also took some hints from the the Batman Earth One graphic novels that Jeff Johns and I think it was Gary Frank did because the design of the costume is very similar to Gary Frank's Batman costume in in in Earth One.
00:36:46
Speaker
And the whole idea of Alfred, like even the look of him with the cane and the beard, that comes out of Earth One. And also the whole idea of Alfred not necessarily being a butler, but being like a bodyguard type, that also comes out of Earth One. I like Andy Serkis. I think he's a wonderful actor. I've seen him in a lot of things besides Lord of the Rings. So I know he's a good actor.
00:37:13
Speaker
and out of all the characters, I thought, I'm not gonna say the weakest, because that's not the right word to use. I think his, again, I did not know about the bodyguard thing. I didn't. I know, I got a Gotham TV show. It was something similar. You know, if you ever want, you know, we if you've seen it on there. yeah yeah But I thought this one was one that I think down the road will be more developed. and You know, I just think either they he didn't get enough lines,
00:37:45
Speaker
I thought he was great. Yeah. I thought Andy's circus was good, but I think one of the problems is this doesn't feel like Alfred to me. Right. That's one of the things like, and I keep going back to, you know, personally for me, Michael Guff was the perfect Alfred in the, in the original Batman movies. He was perfect, right? He had the,
00:38:08
Speaker
You know, we had that loyalty to Bruce. He had the the kind of dry English wit thing. And he had captured that character. If I'm ranking Alfred, Michael Guff is at the top. Number two is probably Jeremy Irons, then Michael Caine. And then I'd put Andy Serkis at the bottom. And this is just talking about the movies, not talking about, you know, the TV shows. so um I'd have to think about where Sean Pertwee would go in there and Alan Napier. though And I haven't seen the Pennyworth TV show, so I don't know about that. Oh, that's good. You should watch the Pennyworth. There was one thing that I didn't pick up, but my sister's from Petty picked up.
00:38:50
Speaker
is that they also brought back a character and maybe she was in the other movies. I don't remember, you know, my, my memory is not that thick great. But one, my, my my sisters from, oh, they brought up so-and-so from the original sixties Batman, because if you remember in the sixties Batman,
00:39:07
Speaker
There's obviously. al Oh, oh, that was an area. So not not the same not the same character. she This was like her name was like Dolly or Doris or something. And she was she wasn't an aunt. She was just like a looks like just like a maid or something. Oh, so she's not OK. OK, I thought well like I said, she was pointing out.
00:39:27
Speaker
because like, Oh, well, that's no. Yeah. You know, and let me ask you the Bruce Patterson's Bruce Wayne is a completely different Bruce Wayne than what we're used to or seen before. um They've all been aloof at some point. Right. And they all try to avoid doing day to day Wayne enterprise stuff. Let's be honest, you know, in the Nolan series, um he had a surrogate played by the late great, oh my God, I'm having a brain fart again. What's his name? um
00:40:03
Speaker
but um
00:40:06
Speaker
He was the Danish actor who passed away. He was in Blade Runner. I'm not sure. Oh, Rucker Howe. Rucker Howe. He passed away. Yeah. I didn't know that. Oh, wow. He passed away about two years ago.
00:40:24
Speaker
And yeah, the guy who who takes control ah of Wayne and right, you know, cause he was originally the, the, the proxy for him. And, um, of course in the Michael Keaton one, you know, he, he was zoned as being aloof. And, um, so this one is like basically very aggressively wanting to avoid anything to do with it. And he doesn't come off as.
00:40:54
Speaker
The Playboy. Yeah, yeah, they completely left that out. It's failed. I mean, i to me, it's a bit refreshing, a bit spooky, you know? My brother-in-law called him the emo bru emo Bruce Wayne, but I thought it was a nice take.
Practical vs. Fantastical Batsuit Design
00:41:08
Speaker
I thought it was okay. You know what? I'm not as...
00:41:12
Speaker
I'm not as down on that as I might've been on on some of other aspects, some other choices Matt Reeves made in this. In this I'm okay with it because we've seen the the playboy Bruce Wayne thing a lot. so And it makes sense that this is an early this is early in his career, he's not gonna he's gonna be very invested in the idea of being Batman. So I thought it made sense for him to be kind of like reclusive.
00:41:35
Speaker
um See, I didn't mind it. It was, I'm not, if it they keep this up going forward, I'm not sure if I'd be as interested in it, but it it was fine for this movie. He played it up as a human being who barely got any sleep. Somebody who suffers from clinical insomnia where I got to take medication sometimes.
00:41:58
Speaker
I saw the telltale signs on his face. You know, when I saw the the previews of it or the original photos, we saw Pattinson with the kind of floppy hair type thing. yeah I didn't like that and I still don't really like that as a design choice for Bruce Wayne, but it makes sense in the context of this movie, I think. Yes, yes. What did you think of the bad suit? Now, again, this is another thing where it's like, I'm done with the grounded approach and it was fine, but
00:42:26
Speaker
I couldn't figure out what the the damn thigh holster was for either. He's walking around with this thigh holster. And when I saw it in the previews and stuff, I thought, oh, that's probably for the Grapple gun. But it wasn't because the Grappenels are built into his gauntlet. So I couldn't figure out what that damn thigh holster was for.
00:42:46
Speaker
Well, no, well, no, maybe he just hasn't decided yet. Yeah. You know you just answered me his suit his suit look like a work in progress, like a Batmobile, which is what a 66 Camaro or something like that, which yeah I, it looked like a Mad Max car to me.
00:43:02
Speaker
that then a Batmobile, I see you, we usually see, but I thought it was pretty cool. I thought that whole scene on the highway was pretty cool, you know. Oh yeah, I love that chase scene. I thought it was, it was, it was a great chase scene. There's so much about this movie I love and most of my complaints is about, which it's not necessarily fair because I know that's not what I know Matt Reeves wanted to make a grounded movie, but again, at the same time, I'm a little bit disappointed because I'm done with the grounded stuff. I want to see instead of seeing Bruce and like a makeshift bat cave and like cobbling things together. Can't we see like the big bat sprawling bat cave beneath Wayne Manor with the giant penny and the robot dinosaur? I was like, I want to see that shit.
00:43:47
Speaker
Well, you may be you still may get that if they're going to go with the two universities, they you still you still still may get that. But and going back to the realism here, they played on a lot of other things like how they they essentially made fun of QAnon, right? So yeah, you know, like,
00:44:07
Speaker
I have these chat rooms and you know these people showing them because they you know there's that scene at the convention center where all these other guys in Riddler costumes and you know they're talking about guns and all this they never see these QAnon chat rooms like in fact there's a couple others there's A-non on there and they They basically almost nailed it. And I'm happy they mocked them. Yeah, same here. Yeah, yeah. yeah um I thought it was all very, you know, true to to life, to the current situation we're we're seeing. So I thought all that was really good. every I love everything about this movie. I'm just disappointed that we're still doing the grounded thing is my main complaint, which okay it's not fair to judge this movie. For what this movie is, I thought it was great for what it was doing.
00:44:50
Speaker
Okay, but you know, they're gonna go forward with this with the next one. Yeah, let's be honest. they They're gonna make a next one. Yeah, I've resigned it. Like, I'm not getting the i'm not getting the the crazy comic book Batman, Denny O'Neill, Neil Adams stuff that I wanna get, but this is good. It's good for what it is. And it's it's a nice melding of the the the character of Batman where it's not,
00:45:20
Speaker
full-on, grim, Frank Miller porn, right? It's not that. and i'm and there is and There is an arc there, yeah you know? Yeah, yeah. In the beginning, he's like, well, you know, vengeance. Oh, we're going to get everything. I mean, he he wants to create a sense of dread on the criminals, like the criminals prey upon the, you you know, like that scene on the subway platform with that guy waiting for the train and all these guys in the cloud making, but I'm thinking,
00:45:47
Speaker
with, you know, first world war, first watching a movie, a brother-in-law turns to me like and goes, are those guys working for the Joker? Because I mean, the clowning make up and I go, no, no Joker in this one. No Joker in this one. But now that we see from the the scene in Arkham, like they could have been, ah because we see, we know obviously from this, from this movie that this Batman has fought the Joker before.
00:46:09
Speaker
Yeah, maybe they are actually so they could they could they could be like you know you know the Joker's former gang or something like that or or followers of him or something like that. Yeah, that is true. ah but what i'm saying is I mean, he he created a sense of dread, like, to look at it off the dark corners like you hear the boom, boom. I did like that. Yeah, like every time like there's there's a dark corner, like the criminals are like double checking. I didn't think that was kind of cool. yeah I will say, though, that one of the things and again, this goes back to my my complaint about the the grounded approach is that when, you know, they're on the subway platform and, you know, this guy walks out in in a costume and
00:46:51
Speaker
it doesn't have that same dramatic sense that like, you know, someone back, like him swooping out from the shadows and grabbing someone would have. You know what I mean? Like I, watching this movie made me want to go back and replay some of the Batman games, but you know, the, the return to Arkham set is not discounted. So I'm waiting on that. So I went back and I re and I started replaying Arkham origins and Yeah, that's that's what I want. Like I want like the whole, you know, dropping down from a gargoyle and swooping someone off and just like, you know, sure. And I want that kind of stuff in a Batman movie. You may still get it. Maybe he couldn't do it as well because he misplaced that that cut that missing holster. Yeah. Hey, hey, it's somewhere. Listen, they filmed it in Chicago again. You know, if you look at the scenes and if you look at IMDB, they filmed it in Chicago and in Scotland.
00:47:48
Speaker
That's another thing I wanted to mention is one of the things I liked about this is like one of the, looking back on the Dark Knight, like at the time we loved it, it was all filmed in Chicago, but looking back at it, you're you're watching it now and you're like, that's not Gotham, that's
Batman as a Symbol: Vengeance to Hope
00:48:03
Speaker
Chicago. yeah And this one, I did like that they made an effort to actually make it feel like Gotham was a real city. I thought that, I thought it it it felt like it was a real, there was a real Gotham city out there.
00:48:16
Speaker
Oh my God, this this was like a nightmare city. This is like, it's just like, if the people who made the Dark Souls video game were asked to design a city, and I mean, that's the appearance, all dark, even in the daytime, it's all dark. And you know, it's like, you don't know, you're gonna go to the corner store and get a shit, you know? It's that fucked up. I mean, I remember that city was like a, like a how the hell are they governing it?
00:48:44
Speaker
even the street you don't know where the left is the right is the street names everything is all spooky and you know again it's like if dark stuff from software makes dark souls we so okay you're gonna design an american city oh yeah boy ah you with living in this city in trouble yeah i you there's a train platform everything you mentioned Something else you mentioned too is Batman's character arc. Something else I liked about this movie is and going back to the Bruce Wayne thing,
00:49:16
Speaker
is I like that we see him as Batman so much in this movie like we almost we barely see Robert Pattinson outside of the costume. It's almost like it's not that Bruce Wayne is Batman it's more like Batman is sometimes Bruce Wayne. Right exactly which is is how it should be and I did like that they heavily leaned into that whereas in the in the other movies it's Like in the in the Nolan films, it was very heavy on the Bruce Wayne side, and you only saw Batman at little points. And in the Burton films, you know it was it was pretty much all the villains anyway, and Bruce Wayne was kind of a supporting character even. Well, yeah, exactly. Well, look who had that in this movie. The guy in the who plays the Riddler. When Batman visits him in Arkham, he says it flat out.
00:50:06
Speaker
That's your real face. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I say that in Batman Begins, but it it's. They made it so that it was more of like a psychological mass as opposed to physical mass, which is why you see him like, you know, the cartoonish playboy Bruce Wayne, but then he's like all serious when he's with Alfred and all that. um But I like the fact that this Bruce Wayne spent so much time in the basket. Well,
00:50:36
Speaker
It's sort of like this Batman reminds me of that character in the Watchmen who puts on the mask. rorsche Rorschach? Rorschach. And there's a sign where basically Rorschach says in the graphic novel and in the comic and in the movie that the mask is his real face. Right, right. That I did. And you know what? That thing is the same thing they applied upon in this movie. Right, yeah, yeah. And the realist says basically the same thing. And whatever you really are,
00:51:06
Speaker
this is who you really are. yeah you know Everything else is is a facade. But in that, just forget about Bruce Wayne. You see in the movie that Batman himself, this is pretending he's a whole separate ethos, a whole separate being. He evolves. As we mentioned, in the beginning, he's all about vengeance at all costs. And then eventually,
00:51:35
Speaker
at the end, it's not about vengeance. It's about he says hope and justice. He comes up more closer to Superman. And in a way, I don't know if you have
00:51:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK, there's a similar arc. If you look at it, i you know, where the guy who plays Peacemaker believes It's peace at all costs. You know, kid women and children he has to. And the bad guys in there, the butterflies, if you later learn, are basically the same thing. They're saying they came to Earth to conquer it so that we don't make the same mistake as they destroyed their environment. right And they realized, at least the leader, whoever it is, they came to realize
00:52:29
Speaker
you know we made the same mistake at all costs. And John Cena's peacemaker at the end of it realized it cannot be peace at all costs. right And the Batman, the Batman, I don't know about Bruce Wayne, but I'm gonna say Batman came to realize he can't just be about punishment, but to show that there is hope and and and and a journey towards ah rehabilitation that we can do more, that the city can recover.
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I love that aspect of it. I love that they were going with a much more, a Batman who comes out of this on the other side being much more hopeful. I really liked that aspect of it. And that's an aspect of Batman that's often been avoided in the movies. So I really liked that were we're going back to that aspect of it from the comics and what the the the animated series did so well. um Now, but of course that left the question hanging conversely,
00:53:25
Speaker
Can the city rehabilitate? Yeah, they got a new mayor and a lot of the leadership. Well, I've got a I've got a few things about that, too, because one of the things I kept thinking about when looking at the devastation at the end of the movie was that this perfectly sets it up for no man's land.
00:53:45
Speaker
I'm not familiar with that. Oh, you don't know about the No Man's Land story arc in the comics? No, I'm sorry. There's a Batman sale on come on Amazon now because Amazon decided to fuck up the Comixology app. Don't get me started on that. Don't even get me started. It's it's been such a headache. ah But yeah, if anyone from Amazon is listening, just give us back the old fucking app in store because this new thing is just a total clusterfuck. But anyway,
00:54:11
Speaker
um if you go but if If you go to Amazon's comic section, they they've got a Batman sale on right now. they've got And one of those, one of the things that's on sale, I hope i think it's still going on. So you might wanna, I think it ends like this weekend. So you might wanna hurry up and get it. But they've got like a bunch of Batman stuff on sale and you wanna pick up the the cataclysm stories and the no man's land stories. It's amazing. Kit, may I ask you, are these available in the DC universe?
00:54:40
Speaker
I'd imagine, I don't know, but I imagine. I get that through my but laugh. I got a Disney debit card, that's my debit card. Yeah, this guy's made it out. I was stuck with a little mermaid card for like two and a half years. But you know, and before that Mitty Mouse, I don't know how this happened to me. But anyways,
00:55:03
Speaker
um And one of the parts is you get a deep discount in DC Universe. Really? For a Disney card? Yeah, the Disney card. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Marvel app? No, I got that too. OK, OK. But yeah, if you're if you're on DC and would DC Infinite, I think it's called or something like that. Oh, wait, I got a Marvel debit card, too. But I got a discount on that as well. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now you got my thing. Which one I got a discount with?
00:55:32
Speaker
Darth Vader is me. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it's the Marvel one. That's a discount. Yeah. Excuse me. I'm so stupid. i don I should hang up and hit my head against the wall here. I got the DC Universe. But you have the DC Universe app. OK. I'm double checking now. I believe that they have No Man's Land on there. I'm just looking at it. I'm looking it up now. Well, can you enlighten me what this No Man's Land is about without spoilers?
00:55:57
Speaker
So yeah, it looks like they do have the storyline up there. the So the storyline is that in, um first it was the Cataclysm story arc where there was this there was this massive earthquake in Gotham caused by a supervillain.
00:56:13
Speaker
it had caused all this devastation and it like cut off Gotham from the rest of the country. And basically in no man's land, they kind of have this thing where they're like, you know what? The US government decides we're just gonna cut off Gotham City from the rest of the country. And it's almost like an escape from New York kind of thing. oh my god And so Gotham, it's gets closed off from the rest of the,
00:56:39
Speaker
Remember in the Dark Knight Rises how the British, it's very similar kind of situation to that. ah And you know it's like the villains are setting up their own sort of like their own little territories in Gotham and And Batman and the police are like the only, the few police that are left, like the only ones who are left who can try to take control of the situation. So it's really cool. It's a really good, it's a really amazing storyline. But yeah, cataclysm was the, it's three parts in the trades and it's all on the DC universe infinite app. But it's Batman cataclysm was the earthquake stuff. There was road to no man's land, which like the buildup to that and then the actual no man's land story.
00:57:24
Speaker
Okay, I'll check that out. That would be interesting though. I thought they were gonna rebuild this all, you know. They could do that. Like another thing they could do is they could rebuild it. And this could also be a way for ah Bruce Wayne to, you know, come out of his, you know, come out of the cave basically. So they could do that as well.
00:57:48
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, in general, uh, also I want to talk about Jeffrey Wright as as Gordon. What'd you think of him? I liked him. I like, I know, I know some people think that he didn't fit. I've heard the argument that they gave him too much screen time.
00:58:09
Speaker
But then again, I thought he was good. I thought I thought he was perfect in the role. Yeah, I liked him. He was, you know, and in fact, I love that scene when he leads Batman into the crime scene. Like that felt very much like the old Denny O'Neill, Neil Adams comics when Batman would show up and him and Commissioner Gordon would go over the crime scene together. I love that. I thought that was perfect. Commissioner Gordon in this movie,
00:58:36
Speaker
knows that his police department, at least half of it is a piece of shit and half of it is okay. And he's looking for allies and he, filed and I think maybe in year one, it's definitely off screen before the movie that he realizes Batman is the helper he needs. And it sort of finalizes, I think in that scene when they're in the, where he keeps the little bat signal,
00:59:04
Speaker
You know, right before, uh, before
Supporting Characters: Gordon and Catwoman
00:59:07
Speaker
he meets cat woman at one, you know, I don't know if you remember before they kidnapped, it's like in the third part, but first started a movie. Yeah. Um, and so I think it's what he agrees. Okay. Listen, you got to punch me in the face. You got to make it look real. Yeah. Yeah. Flip some of the keys. And I think he realizes, okay.
00:59:27
Speaker
This is real, our friendship, well, partnership, not friendship. This is it. I can definitely use this because I'm not getting help with the department. Guy knows half of them are working for the mob. Right. Yeah, i I thought he was great. I think this is probably the best version of Gordon we've seen on screen so far. um I mean, you know, I think if he'd been given more to do, JK Simmons probably would have been the best, but he he wasn't, so.
00:59:56
Speaker
just gotta go with what we've actually seen. And based on that, I think he's definitely my favorite Gordon that we've seen so far. Now, do you think, had there been a DC Gotham PD that, I mean, this was obviously, you're telling me this was canceled. Do you think they were planning on having Jeffrey Wright essentially take that over?
01:00:19
Speaker
I'm not sure, I don't think so. I'm trying to see if there's anything about this on on the Wikipedia page, but my gut says probably not.
01:00:30
Speaker
um
01:00:33
Speaker
And it looks like it would have been a prequel of, and it would have focused on the, so the series would have been told from the perspective of a crooked cop. So it wouldn't have actually been Gordon, it would have been someone else.
01:00:47
Speaker
um okay it probably would have been you know i think what they would have done is they probably would have gone with bullock is it's not says who would who they would have gone with but i assume it would have been bullock because in the pre-crisis stories he was a crooked cop was bullock in the movie In this movie, no. I didn't think so. He hasn't appeared in any of the movies. um There was, in in the 89 Batman, they had Lieutenant Eckhart, who's basically, he's basically pre-crisis Bullock. Right. Right. But he wasn't, act but obviously his name wasn't actually Bullock. And then you had Donald Logue played Bullock in the the Gotham TV show. But in the movies, in the in the movies themselves, live action movies, we haven't seen Bullock at all.
01:01:36
Speaker
And I was expecting Donald to betray him in that show in Gotham every second, because God damn it, anything I ever see him in, he's like a backstabber. He's a backstabber in, um oh God. What's that show at Oliphant? Are you talking about justified? Justified. I think he's in that one, playing an FBI, crooked FBI agent.
01:02:02
Speaker
He's in Vikings, I just saw him playing King Horik, where he's a fucking piece of shit in hat. You know, anyway, anyway. So, wow. um ah Well, also, one other thing I want to talk about before we wrap this up is yeah what I think was the best performance in this movie, Zoe Kravitz.
01:02:22
Speaker
Thank you. I don't know why some people are giving her hate. I don't know why some people are say, oh, she was too slow. Oh, there was no connection. Oh, there was no chemistry. Oh, she made it longer. Well, shit, I thought she was pretty damn good. And I thought she was perfect.
01:02:41
Speaker
she was perfection in that role. Like this is, you know, I thought all the cat all the live action Catwoman had been great. Okay, so let's get that out of the way. Like, you know, Michelle Pfeiffer, classic. Anne Hathaway, awesome job. Zoe Kravitz though is like the perfect version of this character we've seen in the movie. She is exactly like the character from the comics.
01:03:05
Speaker
Why do you think you're saying there's no chemistry because, oh, she's not fighting over but Batman. Come on. I don't know. I mean, I think you know what I suspect a lot of it is, is a lot of it is racism because there's a lot of people who are just like, oh, she's it's too woke because she mentions white privilege in it at one point. i'm like Oh, yeah. It's just, you know, it's just, you know, anytime there's a there's a woman of color, they're going to they're going to bitch about it. That's really what I think it is. ah The record on television.
01:03:35
Speaker
They've done polls who played the best catwoman on TV. Oh yeah. It was a kid yeah it was art the kit for the original. You know, so I'm sorry that don't hold. And honestly, I just thought she's not going to be wilder. Oh, Oh, because first off, she's on her own agenda. Yeah, she is. It's almost like the Punisher in a way with her, you know, or some kind of a data with her because she knows that while her father's the one responsible for the murder of her friend and
01:04:07
Speaker
her friend and her were like besties. And this happens to her. Come on. And I don't like she doesn't know who to trust. And she's like, I like you. Oh, you know, and all this stuff in the weather. Come on. I thought it clicked. I thought it was perfect. Yeah. Yeah. It was very I thought she she did a very good job. And that's exactly what Catwoman's like in the comics. She's always got her own agenda. So I don't know what people are complaining about.
01:04:33
Speaker
i thought I thought her her her chemistry with Pattinson, I thought was great. um You know, I thought she, like I said, she's my favorite, hands down, my favorite performance in this movie is her. ah She was just exactly what I wanted Catwoman to be.
01:04:51
Speaker
Now, is she going to return in a future movie? Do we know why it's so early to tell? I mean, I hope so, but it's up and I'm not sure. So I've been I read that there have been that some cast members have signed on for more movies, but I'm not sure. So here's what here's what Wikipedia says. So you were right. Actually, it looks like they are going to be doing a new trilogy. Oh, yeah, I get it. And it's going to be a Batman focused shared universe that's separate from the DCEU stuff.
01:05:20
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Now, it says key cast members have signed on for the future films, but um it doesn't say which of those are the key cast members. um
01:05:33
Speaker
I'm not, you know, damn well, a dump truck full of money just appeared in Pattinson's front yard. No, already said he's he'll do it, but I'm talking about other cast members. So we don't know about, I don't know about Zoe Kravitz or or what, but Well, circus is probably gonna be in it. Circus is probably signed on. You know, Jeffrey Wright. Jeffrey Wright, I'd imagine, would definitely be in it. But they do, they give her an out for her because, for her to be out in the next movie because she says that she's leaving, she's going to Bloodhaven. So it would make sense for her to sit out a movie. In fact, you know what, why not give her a, give her a solo cat wound movie to make up for the Halle Berry one? Well, I was about to ask you that. I was about to ask two questions. Okay. One is, I went on the internet,
01:06:19
Speaker
to see ah you know what they were saying. And a lot of people went to Bloodhaven. And you know where I'm going with this, but I don't think there's a Robin yet. no It's too But Pattinson and Reeves have expressed interest in and introducing Robin. So it could mean that he comes up in the next in the next movie or something. You don't think, it isn't like kept everybody on the internet. So I like your take on this. I think it could be the now orphaned boy of the mayor.
01:06:49
Speaker
who was killed? No, that wouldn't work. No, yeah, that wouldn't work. I think that'd be stupid. It was just like when when Batman Begins came out and there was that little kid that Batman tossed the thing to everyone's like, oh, that's Robin. I'm like, no, it's not. And so, yeah, i and but him introducing him in the next movie actually makes sense because um if i'm miss if I'm not mistaken, I think actually in the comics, Robin did appear in the second year.
01:07:17
Speaker
um
01:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, he appeared in 1940 and Batman appeared in, what was it, 1939? Yeah, so.
01:07:31
Speaker
Well, I just- Yeah, 1939 was when Batman ah premiered and then Robin came out a year after. So they could ease, and in the comics, um you know, in the world of the comics that they did, the long Halloween, which is set in the second year. And then after that came the dark victory series and that introduced Robin. So I think they could easily introduce Dick Grayson, the next one. The question is how old will he be in this? Yeah, I think they'd probably go with more of a teenage version. I don't think they'd go with a 10 year old version.
01:08:01
Speaker
but I was gonna ask. But I don't think they'll, I also don't think they'll go with like the, you know, Chris O'Donnell who looks like he's 35 supposed to be playing an 18 year
Comparisons to CW Shows and Superhero Media
01:08:10
Speaker
old. Yeah.
01:08:13
Speaker
yeah Well, what happened to him? Last time I saw him, he was on Price is Right. I'm serious. He was on the 50th anniversary nighttime Price is Right. But I'm just saying, I can't see them doing, because Patterson's Bruce Wade,
01:08:29
Speaker
He's not in his 40s in this one. He's in his 30s, right? He's in his 30s. Yeah, that's what it looks like. So so a teenager one. Yeah, that's going to be interesting, but I want to know what they're going to do with Bloodhaven. If you think that's where the Catwoman movie is going to be. I mean, I don't know if there's going to be a Catwoman movie, but I think, you know, why not? I mean, give Zoe Kravitz a shot at it and given doing the movie and be cool. Yeah.
01:08:55
Speaker
um But yeah, in general, I thought it was good. It's just, I do wish that we can move away from the grounded stuff. That ain't happening. You're stuck with gritty Batman. I'm fine with gritty. I just want some of the more fantastical stuff to be in there too. Well, you know what? You may get that with a Batwoman. Yeah, I mean, I watched the first episode. It didn't really do much for me. Yeah.
01:09:27
Speaker
I never seen any of them. They quit out of it. I I, it was, right? Yeah. Superman and Lois is amazing. If you haven't seen that yet. I haven't seen that yet. Do you have HBO max? Oh yeah. Okay. Well, bill the whole, the whole first season is on HBO max. Watch Superman and Lois. It's so, it's like the best Superman has been since Christopher Reeve.
01:09:52
Speaker
Oh, okay, I will watch it. It's the perfect modern take on Superman and it it brings in so much new aspects of the character because him and Lois have ah raise have two kids who are in high school in the show and it's just, it it's perfect. I'm rewatching it right now. Okay, i will it is it it hasn't been canceled, has it? No, no, no, the first the second season is airing now. Okay, I will watch it and I will touch base with you. Yeah, yeah, watch it. The whole first season's on HBO Max. Watch it, it's so good.
01:10:22
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you, a lot of superhero stuff to watch. Yeah, I mean, I like, you were, you mentioned, well, you mentioned the CW shows. I'm so behind on those. Cause less, I'm caught up on Superman and Lois, but ah which, you know, up to the, up to the first season, but I haven't, and I'm caught up with flash up until what eight season eight, I think was the one that was recently on i behind on Netflix. but like i I haven't seen the last, I'm trying to work my way through the last season of Supergirl, but it's so not good. I'll tell you.
01:10:51
Speaker
Well, I want your opinion because with the Flash, I'm where he just defeated Savitar. Yeah, it's it. It's OK. Yeah, yeah, I know you're talking. I think that I believe that pretty sure that's the third season. that That's where he fights basically a mirror or a split version of him. Yeah. it was this The show has like goes like up and down. the the The most recent season that's on Netflix was a was a slog to get through.
01:11:18
Speaker
It was okay especially the middle part. It was definitely. I haven't seen the last season of Green Arrow yet. That was okay. um I kind of gave up on Heroes of Tomorrow. Oh, Legends of Tomorrow? Oh, Legends of Tomorrow. Yeah, I watched like two seasons of it. It's not that I don't hate it. It's just that I had so much on my plate. I had to give up something that was on the chopping block. I never saw Black Lightning. Black Lightning was pretty good. I've seen what' see the first two seasons. I haven't seen what's left of it. um
01:11:52
Speaker
But yeah, the the WB stuff is running out of steam, it seems like, but or the CW stuff, not the WB. But Superman and Lois being the exception. Superman and Lois is so good. It's really good. it's it's it's I'm surprised it's a CW show because it's it could easily be on HBO Max, because that's how good it is. That's how good the quality is. I definitely have to watch it. I'm also a little excited that they're now counting Daredevil and all the former Netflix shows. Yeah, they're they're coming on Disney Plus later this month, in fact. I'm hoping they make no ones. They would be nice. But, that you know. but we will We'll see. I mean, I think for now, they'll probably just keep them as supporting characters and stuff like, you know, Daredevil popped up in No Way Home and Kingpin popped up in Hawkeye. So I think they'll be doing that kind of stuff from now on.
01:12:45
Speaker
A little bit at least before they bring something else. And and and of course you got the what, not related to either of these universes. On Amazon you got the boys. Oh yeah I just I haven't seen the new season yet but ah the new season trailer but I just saw that it was released. So I'll have to share that. Yeah no it looks interesting. but he Wow.
01:13:05
Speaker
That's completely different from the Batman. I guess we should bring it up here. No, it's OK. I would just like your opinion. I never talked to you about the voice. What would you think of that? I like it. Yeah, it's it's pretty good. I like it. It's entertaining. OK,
01:13:26
Speaker
yeah it's good ah okay okay I'll leave it at that. OK, I'll leave it at that. like Have you seen this? Have you seen that news show? Yeah, gives it gives information. No, I mean, it's it's fun. I like it. It's it's good for what it is. I mean, it's nothing. I'm not like blown away by it the way everybody else seems to be, but but I enjoy it. It's like when I asked you about Bob's Burger. I've never seen Bob's Burgers.
01:13:56
Speaker
No, no, Mossberg. Oh, Mossberg. Oh, yeah. yeah that's it say Yeah. It's a burger place. Yeah, it's a burger place. It's a burger place. Like, no, it's like, yeah, it's there. Yeah, I don't I don't really like them that much. My wife likes it, but I don't. hey It's it. All right. But anyway, yeah, yeah. Johnny, anything else we want to say about the Batman?
Movie Access, Future Releases, and Entertainment Value
01:14:19
Speaker
Uh, apparently, there's maybe an extended version of that movie. and Really? Yeah.
01:14:26
Speaker
So I can't wait to see that release at h a it but would it be HBO Max, yeah. Well, HBO Max, I think they've already announced that it's coming out next month. Yeah. So apparently it might be coming out to that. You get HBO Max in Japan, don't you? Well, not ah I use a VPN to access it, but yeah. Oh, okay. Okay.
01:14:46
Speaker
well ah It'd be interesting. I wish they'd put back dude. I think that's, coming that's, I just saw, I saw an email. That's one of the things that's coming. I'm going to be on soon. So it should be back on there soon. yeah Well, but it's always good in these dark days to see a superhero movie even when it's gritty and. Well, one of the things I like about it's gritty, but it's not dour, right? It's right. It's got a hopeful message at the end. So I thought that was, I liked that about it.
01:15:17
Speaker
You know, I mean, it be a it's not like cause it's not like, you know, Batman V Superman, where you want to kill yourself after you watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like there goes two hours of my life. I'm never getting. Yeah. Yeah. It's nothing like that.
Light-hearted Banter and Movie Regrets
01:15:33
Speaker
It's a it's a movie that makes you want to invent the time machine so you can go back in time and punch yourself in the face before you buy the ticket. Yeah. Don't bite it. Take it.
01:15:44
Speaker
You could do something more productive like put your hand in a blender.
01:15:50
Speaker
Oh, OK. All right, Johnny, do you have anything you want to promote um before we close up? and No, no, I don't want to get political. OK. But hey, listen, man, what is there another movie be coming out that, the you know, oh,
01:16:10
Speaker
Actually, I do got a quickie question for you, because you and I both have ah something in common.
Takashi Miike's Films and Jared Leto's Roles
01:16:16
Speaker
I saw a preview, and maybe you've seen it already, the Takishi Miike. Takashi Miike. Thank you. Thank you. Did he make a vampire Yakuza movie? Yeah, yeah, Yakuza Apocalypse. How is that? I just saw an ad for that. It's OK. It's not as um It's not like, I think it's just like at this point in his career and after seeing so many of his movies, it's not as shocking as the premise might have you believe, but it's fun. You know what? He should throw everyone off kilter to make a Disney movie. And do what? Just make a Disney movie. He did make a children's fantasy film. What did he make? The Great Yokai War.
01:17:11
Speaker
That was him. That was him. Yeah. Holy shit. That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's actually a sequel to it. I'm not sure if he he directed it as well, but I know I think sel about speaking of vampires. Are you going to be a certain ceo so it superhero vampire movie with Jared Lido coming out very shortly? Oh, Morbius. Yeah, that looks good. And, you know, he seems to be doing it seems to be seems much better than whatever he was trying to do with Joker. So I mean, Jared Leto was a good actor. I just I don't don't know. It's just like, it nobody told him that what he was doing with the Joker was terrible. I don't know what they were going with that. No, no, no. No, I mean, he thought he was going to have his own Joker movie. I remember him being so pissed off in a TV interview on on TV, like, you know, they told me we're going to have a whole movie with Joker.
01:18:00
Speaker
You know, and well, no opposite not have to say what you did. ask Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm picking up tickets for Morbius. It's going to be coming out very shortly. I'm not sure when it comes out here. I got to look that up, but mile but we'll see.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:18:14
Speaker
We'll see. um But yeah, Johnny, always good to see you. Always good to talk with you.
01:18:19
Speaker
Thank you for having me. thanks da Thanks for coming back on. Thanks for, um thanks for requesting this. Cause you, you, you dropped me a line and said like, oh, you want me to be on to talk about it. So anytime you want to do that, anytime anyone else wants to do that, just let me align and let me know. I'm there for you, buddy. All right. Thanks a lot. All right. So thanks for listening to superhero cinephiles. Superherocinephiles.com is the website and super cinema pod on Twitter and Instagram. Make sure to like us, leave us a review and thanks for listening and we'll talk to you next time.
01:18:48
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles, where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com.
01:19:10
Speaker
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01:19:37
Speaker
Thank you for listening. And as always, Good night. Good evening. God bless.