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Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman (2003)
239 Plays1 year ago
Kenisha Liu returns to the show to discuss the forgotten movie of Bruce Timm's DCAU. We discuss the interesting way this film approached the Batwoman concept (before Kate Kane's debut in the comics) and Timm's odd obsession with the Bruce/Barbara relationship.
Want to tell us what you think? Have any questions or comments for Perry about superheroes in media or comics? Leave a voice message to play on the show. You can also apply to be a guest on the show.
PARAGONS OF EARTH is a comic book project I’m developing with Thomas Deja and Eric Johns. You can support the project by visiting crowdfundr.com/paragonscomic.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Paragons of Earth' and Crowdfunding
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey guys, before we get into the episode, I wanted to tell you a little bit about Paragons of Earth, the exciting new superhero comic I'm working on with Thomas DJ and Eric Johns. For this comic, we've unearthed a number of obscure and forgotten Golden Age superheroes, plucked them from the depths of the public domain, and completely redesigned and reinvented them for the modern day. It's an exciting cast of characters, and we're throwing them up against the threat of a Lovecraftian apocalypse.
00:00:24
Speaker
It's got action, it's got drama, it's got alternate dimensions and alien worlds, and it's even got a giant shark and Hawaiian shirt. What else could you want? But in order to make this comic a reality, we need your help. The comic is crowdfunding now, and you can help support it by going to crowdfunder.com slash paragonscomic.
00:00:42
Speaker
That's Crowdfunder Without the E dot com slash Paragons Comic. You'll be able to find that link in the show notes, so please double check if you didn't quite get it. Please help make this comic a reality. We are counting on your support. And now, on with the show.
Bruce Wayne and Barbara: Spring Break and Relationship Tensions
00:01:10
Speaker
I think we've got more than enough back freaks and got them already. I mean, sheesh, what's next? Bad hound? Come on, boy. You know, I've been thinking about getting a dog. They could help us sniff out clues. Bruce Wayne here. Bruce, it's Barbara. Hey, Barb. She misses you. How's college?
00:01:37
Speaker
Not bad, though the nightlife here can't compare with kicking butt as Batgirl. But Spring Break will be coming up soon, and I'll be back in Gotham for two whole weeks. Won't that be nice?
00:01:49
Speaker
Yes. We'll all be happy to see you. Don't drag me into this. Anyway, that's not the reason I called. I just saw the news and I was wondering if you'd gotten a new partner. Someone a little... older? I have no idea who she is. Cause if you had, I'd be really upset. Cause I thought you and I were... you know. Uh, Barb, we're going through the East Tunnel now. Frayed, signal's breaking up. Talk later.
00:02:20
Speaker
squeaked through again, didn't you? I never failed to marvel at your narrow escape, sir. One female bat at a time.
Guest Kenisha Liu's DC Journey and Love for Batman
00:02:30
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cenophiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and I'm welcoming back a returning guest, and that is Kenisha Liu. Kenisha, how are you doing today? I'm great. How are you, Perry? I'm good. It's been a minute, and it's been a while since we had you on the show. So why don't you take a minute and remind the listeners about who you are and what you do.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, so I kind of grew up around comic books. My brother was super into DC mostly, but I've kind of grown up around just like comic books in general. And yeah, so I think that was my first entryway into it. I remember like some of my earliest memories was just like going to the comic book store with my brother and getting that, you know, like fat stack and walking out and having fun.
00:03:15
Speaker
So yeah, I think that's kind of the entry for me. It has been a little bit difficult to be a DC fan in the last couple years. So, you know, I think I've definitely fallen off, but it's always really great coming back here and kind of remembering why I loved comics in the first place and what really drew me to it. And for me specifically, like,
00:03:37
Speaker
I may be influenced by my brother, but I love DC. I love Batman in particular. And last time I was here, we talked about the Batwoman comic. And so those are just characters that I've always really loved. And they kind of set the standard for the shows and the main characters that I gravitate towards. And so, yeah, that's a little bit about me.
00:03:58
Speaker
Okay, great. I was kind of surprised to hear you say that you've been disappointed with DC in recent years. I'm a little bit behind in my DC stuff. The most recent thing I've read is the Philip
DC Movies: Skepticism and Optimism for James Gunn's Projects
00:04:10
Speaker
Kennedy Johnson's War World arc in the Superman books. And I thought what they were doing in the Superman stuff has been amazing, but I am admittedly very behind on, I haven't even opened up Dark Crisis or anything like that yet.
00:04:24
Speaker
Oh, I think I was more talking towards like generally DC fan for the mainstream audience. So like the movies. Oh, I see. I see. I thought you're more of a comic. No. Yeah. No. Yeah. The movies. You can see the masses. I mean, I'm very excited about what James Gunn has coming down the pike though. You're more skeptical of that.
00:04:47
Speaker
No, I'm not. Well, you know, I I'm intrigued. Like, I think it'll be interesting because I feel like him and like Henry Cavill and Gal Gadot and like, you know, like I feel like that relationship is a little bit, you know, icy. I think he's like promised them some stuff and then they both got cut.
00:05:06
Speaker
um if I remember correctly so I'm kind of curious but I like what he has planned and I really like the last like Suicide Squad movie um everything he's put out lately like Harley Quinn that wasn't him I guess but you know DC movies lately have been pretty good I haven't seen Blue Beetle yeah I still have to I've got it but I haven't actually watched it yet
00:05:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So it is on the up and up, but I think it's just like, it's like that like fatigue. And there's just like so much I guess right now maybe it's like marble that it's, it's getting a little bit hard to be a fan of. But yeah, no, I think it'll be interesting. I'm excited to see what James Gunn does. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm
00:05:47
Speaker
Everything I've heard so far about Superman Legacy sounds amazing.
Excitement for 'Superman Legacy' and The Authority
00:05:53
Speaker
I was an authority fan way back when that was in the comics, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, so I'm really excited that he's going to be bringing the authority to the movies. Yeah, it's going to be interesting, although I do echo the
00:06:10
Speaker
the Cavill and Godot things. I was kind of disappointed because it seems like, I feel like if you're gonna, you should either do like, you know, just do a complete reboot or retool things and, you know, give Henry Cavill an actual chance to play Superman instead of, you know, the weird morose version that he's been forced to play up until now. Yeah, I am curious, did you watch the Flash movie?
Flash Movie Review: Praise and Disappointments
00:06:33
Speaker
And I like want to know what you think about that. Yeah, I watched it. In fact, we got an episode
00:06:38
Speaker
about that, that I've got scheduled to record I think later this month. I thought Michael Keaton was awesome. I really liked Supergirl. I thought she was good too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the exception of the the Flash Design and Justice League, I thought all the costumes and
00:07:06
Speaker
you know, Ben Affleck's Batman suit in The Flash. I thought all the costume designs for the DCEU had been pretty spot on. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. I'm just glad with like the variation they went on Supergirl. I didn't want the skirt. I think that's my word. Yeah. No, yeah, I thought it was a nice way of like updating it. I really like what they did in Injustice, how they inverted the colors of the shield.
00:07:29
Speaker
where Superman's got, it's the red S and the yellow background, whereas in Injustice, they inverted it for Supergirl, so it was a yellow S and a red background instead. I thought that was just like a nice little twist on the classic design to kind of differentiate her a little bit more. Yeah, no, that's cool. I don't think I even really noticed that.
00:07:48
Speaker
It was something that I noticed, I think it was when I was reading the comics is when that first jumped out to me. Yeah. But yeah, I thought her design was great. I liked the like red shoulder accents. Yeah. And as I recall, she didn't have like any boots, it was just straight blue all the way down, right? Hmm, I think, I'm not even sure. I think so. But whatever it was, I thought the design worked pretty well.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of the biggest downsides of that movie is that we also won't get to see any more of her because I don't think there's been any talks about her being in the Woman of Tomorrow movie. Yeah, I don't think so either. I think they were thinking about it, but then they weren't super happy with how the Flash did.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Which, well, the biggest thing about that is I'm very disappointed about the that now they said, well, we're not going to do Batman Beyond yet when Michael Keaton was the thing everybody loved about The Flash anyway. Yeah, it's yeah, a little sad. But but anyway, although we are here to talk about a different
Nostalgia for 'Mystery of the Batwoman' and Animated Series
00:08:52
Speaker
movie. So last time you were on the main show, we did talk about the
00:08:57
Speaker
I think it was the Teen Titans. Yeah, the Judas contract. So this time we're talking about another animated movie. And, you know, it was funny, I was watching this movie last night and Mystery of the Batwoman is the one we're talking about, the 2003 animated film.
00:09:16
Speaker
I kind of wondered if maybe you, when you would ask to come on for this, if maybe you'd gotten this one mixed up with bad blood because you're more of a fan of the more modern bad woman, which this version is not.
00:09:28
Speaker
No, I, yeah, it is funny. Like, I feel like we do keep on talking about like Batwoman. No, I just really love this film because when I was a kid and I went to the dentist, really random, but this movie would be playing and like, there's just something super nostalgic about it. At that time, I didn't even know who Batwoman was. And then when I re-watched it, at first I was like, is Kathy Duquesne like a play on like Kathy Kane or like Kate Kane?
00:09:56
Speaker
But it's actually spelled completely different, so it's not. But yeah, I will warn you, like I was watching this with my roommate and like turns out I'm super biased. Some criticisms that like I like flew over my head because for me, this is just like a super nostalgic film.
00:10:16
Speaker
but yeah no I just think that it's like very true to like what I see all the characters as and so I think that's what I love about it and like I don't know like it's got some like noir aspects to it that I really love like the theme song in general is just like
00:10:35
Speaker
I don't know it's very Batman but it's like very I don't know like classy so yeah I just I just really like this film. Yeah um so were you a were you a fan of the Batman animated series and the DCAU and all that stuff back in the day?
00:10:50
Speaker
Yeah, I would say that was like my main like the main medium that I watched because my brother didn't want me to bend his comic so he I had to like I rarely were able to read them but yeah so I would say the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited and like um
00:11:07
Speaker
That was probably the main show that I watched as a kid, because Batman was a little bit before me. But yeah, I do really like that show. I love all of the stuff that they did. I'm a really big fan of the animated shows or animated movies, which is probably the reason why like I always choose those instead of the live action. So yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got a few years on you. So I was definitely into the Batman the Animated Series. Like that came out when I was probably like in
00:11:35
Speaker
I think when that first started coming out and that was like yeah the summer of Batman because that came out like the It came out like the fall after Batman Returns was released in in theater So that was like my big that was my bat mania summer was the summer before of 92 Yeah, I was like I had like everything Batman. I had the Batman
00:11:55
Speaker
bedsheets, the pajamas, the toys, all that kind of stuff. So I was totally into Batman at that point in the large part because of the Burton films. And then the animated series came out and that just kind of like deepened my love of the character. And to this day is still probably like my ideal version of that character. And I still maintain like the best Batman movie ever made is Mask of the Phantasm. I think that was just lawless movie in every single aspect.
00:12:26
Speaker
And then when this came out, so this came out in 2003, I was in university at the time, but I don't think, I don't think this movie was actually on my radar at all when it first came out. I think it just, in fact, as I recall, it wasn't until like, you know, probably like five or six years after it came out, when I finally sat down and watched it, I think I got it from like a used DVD store or something. And first thing I noticed about it was obviously the,
00:12:54
Speaker
the Batman Beyond influenced a costume that Batwoman was wearing. And I had these vague memories of the Batwoman character from the silver age comics that I'd read at the library with. And, you know, if you listen to the Patreon show that we did talking about Batwoman, we talked a little bit about Bat character and just like how she was introduced to be this love interest of Batman because she was terrified everybody thought, yeah, Batman and Robin were gay.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, which is hilarious. It is, yeah. Now, what you said of how, you know, the Kathy Duquesne name, I think that was intentional. I think that's too, it's not spelled the same, but I think the pronunciation is so close that it can't not be intentional. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. But it's weird because her design is like, she looks like Selena Kyle. Yeah, yeah. Bruce, you have a type, like,
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, very similar. You know, I think one of the things this movie
Critiques of Film's Tension, Noir Influence, and Character Portrayals
00:13:52
Speaker
does well, like, I'm probably not as critical of it as your roommate, but I'm also but I do have some criticisms of it too. I think in terms of the the high bar that the DCA you set with, you know, Batman and Justice League,
00:14:07
Speaker
And of course the movies like Master of the Phantasm, their animated films didn't always reach that same bar. Like, you know, there was the Superman Brainiac Attacks movie, which used all the same designs, but was still not in the same continuity. It was really strange. And then you had this one, which was very much in the same continuity, but it just, it did not, it felt like something was missing from it compared to like the other stuff.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, like one of the criticisms that my roommate pointed out was like it didn't really build up very much like tension, I guess, because you couldn't really figure it out along the movie. They kind of just tell you who it is right away because he was like guessing along the whole time. It's like, oh, I think it's this person. I think it's this person, which is really fun for me to watch.
00:14:55
Speaker
Um, and I agree with that, you know, and I think like as a kid, it's not really something I thought about, but like now looking back, I'm like, yeah, that's pretty true. And then another criticism that he had was like, there weren't that many fight scenes, which is pretty true. There are fight scenes, but they're not. I wouldn't say that's like the main reason to watch the film. No, I think I think first and foremost, this is really a mystery film. Like you said, you know, they've got a lot of nor influences, like
00:15:21
Speaker
Kathy Duquesne very much comes off as a femme fatale type in a lot of ways. And I think the similarity to Selena is also, well, because the, I can't remember if, because I remember the original animated version of Selena actually had, was a blonde. She had long blonde hair because they were basing it off of Michelle Pfeiffer. But then I think in the, when they did the new Batman Adventures, I know they changed like her design. I'm not sure if they gave her black hair in that or not though.
00:15:52
Speaker
But because, yeah, I think the short the Selena with short black hair is more of a recent development. I think maybe it happened around this time in the comics.
Plot Twist: Three Batwomen Mystery
00:16:02
Speaker
No, I'm not. Maybe they were intentionally drawing that parallel to Selena because they are to kind of show that why Bruce is attracted to her. And she's got that whole wild side thing to her that that Selena has as well. But
00:16:14
Speaker
One of the things I really liked about the movie, though, was actually the mystery aspect. I thought that, because, you know, one of my biggest, everybody loves the comic book Hush, right? And one of my biggest criticisms of that is the mystery of who Hush is, because you introduce this long lost friend of Bruce Wayne who's never been seen before now, and he ends up being the villain. Like, of course, of course, it's gonna be that guy.
00:16:44
Speaker
That always annoyed me about that comic book series. And I thought what this movie does is it plays around with it. So it introduces three potential Batwomen, and it leads you towards Cathy right from the start, right? Just, again, the name, Cathy Duquesne, it's gonna make you, if you're included in the Batman comics, you're gonna think, oh yeah. Cathy Kane was the Batwoman in the comic book, so this one is probably, Cathy Duquesne is probably gonna be in this movie.
00:17:13
Speaker
and the whole tragic backstory thing with her mother dying and all that. So you do, the movie does lead you heavily to believe it's her, but then it throws in some red herrings with Rocky and with Sonia. And then I think what they did pretty well was it's, no, it's not one of them, it's all three of them together.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah, I do agree. I think that was a really fun twist. And when watching my roommate figure that out, or I guess he was going like, oh, no, I think it's this person. And then he'd be like, no, it's got to be the medal where she throws the medal bit that was developed during that Wayne conference. He was like, oh, it's definitely Rocky. So I did really like those aspects. And then when he figured out that it was all three of them, I thought that was really fun to see his reaction.
00:18:06
Speaker
I do wish that they kind of played up like, I don't know, Bruce looking into it more, but I get it. It's a little, it's a movie, it's short and stuff. And I feel like with the time that they had, they were able to flesh out all the characters like pretty well, all of the three introductory characters, the three Batwoman, which I thought was really, really good. So yeah, like I do like that aspect of it. And I think they did a really good job of like balancing that screen time with the new characters in the old.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think I was done really well.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I also like I was, you know, I didn't remember and rewatching it last night. I was kind of surprised at how much Robin there was in this movie because I did not remember that from the last time I saw it. Granted, it was like 10 years ago last time I saw it. But still, yeah, that was kind of surprising to see how active he was. And I did like that they had kind of aged him up a little bit. So like his voice a little bit deeper, his, you know, he is he's taller now that compared to when he was in the animated series. So it's clearly there's been some passage of time.
00:19:09
Speaker
So I thought that was a nice touch too. Although it does raise a continuity issue with Return of the Joker and the flashback scenes in that.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, we just glossed over that part. Yeah, yeah And I think they and I think there have been different because I was reading two different articles about this like one on Wikipedia one on one of the DC fandom with wikis and the Wikipedia one says this is set after return of the Joker the The DC fan one says it's set before return of the Joker So I don't think even anyone really knows exactly where this is supposed to fall in continuity. I
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah, I was gonna, I was thinking like I was kind of confused as to where it was and then there isn't that many clues. I guess that one clue was like the whole thing with Barbara. They did touch on that in the animated show, right? Like where they kind of have, she has that crush on him. So like- I got a rant about that in a minute.
00:20:06
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't think they really thought it through that much, but that aside, it's not really like, I don't know. I guess it's not that important because a lot of the characters don't show up again, but it, yeah, it does raise a little bit of a continuity issue, especially since he starts that romance and then you never see her again. Yeah. Yeah. Now.
Criticism of Bruce's Relationships and Animated Themes
00:20:28
Speaker
Here's my rant. Like, the biggest thing I hate about this movie is the way that it depicts Bruce, because he just—he comes off as such a creeper in this movie.
00:20:39
Speaker
I mean, he's got this whole thing with Barbara. First off, you know, she's young enough, she's the same age as his adopted son. And she used to be dating his adopted son, right? Her and Dick used to have a thing in the old, in the animated series. So this whole, Bruce, and I know Bruce Tim wasn't directly involved with this, but just this whole obsession that Bruce Tim has with Bruce and Barbara together, it drives me insane every time it comes up.
00:21:09
Speaker
know that when they mentioned that in Batman Beyond the first time I remember watching that I'm like wait did she just say that her and Bruce were involved like no no I must be misinterpreting it or something and then and then you watch this and you're like oh no no he meant that and then and then and then you know then we got the Killing Joke movie which just was the
00:21:32
Speaker
probably the even worse thing that they did to Barbara since the actual Killing Joe comic book was that movie. It was so degrading to her character and it just drove me insane to see it.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think, like, part of the reason I like this film is because it is, like, it reminds me of the time where, like, I don't know, all the animated shows I felt like were doing really great, and, like, Batman and Barbara, at the time, like, watching it, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is, like, he doesn't seem, like, super interested. He's like, oh, like, you know, like, we're breaking up when they're on the phone. Um, so I think, like,
00:22:12
Speaker
That was the time where I didn't know that Bruce Timb had that weird obsession, but it's a little bit, you can't really deny, especially after that Killing Joke movie. And it's also just a random thing to add into the film. Why even add that in? I don't know. I don't love it either. Well, because the thing that annoys me so much is
00:22:37
Speaker
First off, Barbara's calling him from college. I mean, come on, dude. You're like 40. What are you doing?
00:22:44
Speaker
And all the characters are like, okay with it. Like they all just like tease him about it. They're like, oh, Bruce. I mean, I understand, Tim, I get, I get Tim T. He's a teenage guy. So I get that. It's like, you know, you're a teenage guy and you see, you know, you know, a 40 year old guy, you know, with a college girl. You might think, man, that guy's still got it after all these years. So I can understand Tim's reaction. But Alfred, like Alfred just, I'm just like, Alfred's the one who should be reading Bruce the riot act there.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, he's usually the one who's supposed to keep him in line. Yeah. I don't know. And that was a really weird part. It was so cringy, especially when she's talking about she's like, well, I'll be able to come, you know, back from college soon for a few for about two weeks. Won't that be fun? I'm just like, oh, my God, this is the way she's talking. It seems like she believes they're still in a relationship and he wants to break up with her, but he just hasn't told her yet.
00:23:42
Speaker
And then he starts this relationship with Kathy. So it's just like, it adds another creep factor on top of that. I'm like, you're still technically with Barbara. It's, even though you plan to break up with her, it's still cheating on her, regardless of how creepy the relationship is in the first place.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely that subtext. And she even mentions, oh, I hear there's a new Batwoman in town. She's a little bit older. Are you leaving me for her? And then it happened. So yeah. Exactly the way. And she's teasing him. She's like, I know you're not, so I'm just teasing you. But then he does it. I'm just like, come on. I know. I get you. It's so weird. It's so weird.
00:24:21
Speaker
That was the biggest thing that drove me nuts in that movie. When they had introduced that stuff about Barbara and Bruce and Batman Beyond, and also in the animated series when she has that dream when she imagines him kissing him and all that,
00:24:40
Speaker
I got that the, my whole idea of the context of that was, okay, she just has a crush on him as all it was. And then she stuck around with him after Dick left because, you know, she had this crush on him, but it was never reciprocated. And then this makes it clear that it was reciprocated. And I'm just like, that's just, it just ruins everything about that. Yeah, like I think it would make sense too, right? Cause like she's always really looked up to him. That's why she kind of took on that mantle.
00:25:07
Speaker
I feel like maybe it's just the optimist in me, but I feel like the film, like, maybe you could say, like, it's just like an unrequited crush. There is definitely subtext there, but I don't know. I think I'm just, like, very different. I think you're reaching there, personally. Yeah. I don't know why they added that. Now, we had a change from the
00:25:34
Speaker
in some of the voice casting, because in the original one, the animated series, you had a different actor doing the voice of the penguin. Here they brought David Ogden Steers in, whereas in the original one, it was, I can't remember exactly who he was, but I just blinked on the name. But I thought Ogden Steers did a pretty good job as penguin in this. What did you think of him?
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, I thought honestly, like all of the voice acting was solid. I mean, there's some people who are always going to be solid, like Kevin Conroy, for example, is never going to miss a beat. But like Kelly Ripa as like Rocky, a little random for me, but I thought she did a really good job and I didn't recognize her at all. So I thought that the voice acting all around was like really solid. I didn't think I had any complaints around it.
00:26:26
Speaker
I feel like they're always pretty solid around voice acting, though. Like, I don't think they ever really go wrong there. No, no. Yeah, I mean, this this whole run of movies or even like even most of the ones after the DCAU ended, mostly solid choices they've had. I mean, a few ones here and there that didn't quite match up. Recently, we recorded an episode on the Red Hood and, you know,
00:26:48
Speaker
John DiMaggio as the Joker and that just is one that does not fit at all but but those few ones aside mostly they've managed to get really good actors to to do these voices and Yeah, Kelly Ripa that surprised me when I saw her name in the credits I was not I did not recognize her either or the fact that Kira Sedgwick did the Batwoman voice I didn't realize that either
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah, I know. But I feel like they do a good job of like, bringing in like pretty big names like you bring up under the Red Hood is that the one where Jensen Echols was playing the Jason Todd. Yeah, Jason Todd. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he did a great job there. Like I feel like, yeah, they were really solid there. And now he's doing, you know, Batman in Long Halloween, which was perfect.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, he's really ventured into the comic book. Like, Rome, I don't know if you watched The Boys, but he really killed it. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love The Boys. Yeah. Yeah. And, well, he did, he did a Batman, did you ever see his Batman cosplay?
00:27:53
Speaker
No, I didn't know we did Batman cosplay. When we're done recording, go look it up. It looks amazing. Really? I mean, honestly, I'm thinking that James Gunn should cast him as Batman in Brave and the Bold. I mean, he's age appropriate now to have a son like Davy, and so it'd be a perfect time for that. That would be amazing. I just feel like the transition from TV to movie is just so hard. I don't know if they would.
00:28:18
Speaker
Like, I feel like so many people were upset about Grant Gustin not being chosen. He's a little skinny, in my opinion, but yeah. Yeah, but especially compared to what we got with Ezra Miller too. I mean, honestly, I would have taken a John Wesley ship playing an older Flash in that movie than Ezra Miller. I don't really see it. Well, I mean, some people really like Donald Trump, so there's no accounting for taste.
00:28:51
Speaker
That's very fair, that's very fair. But yeah, I thought getting Kara Sedgwick to do the Batwoman voice was also a clever way of misdirection because now you don't know which of the voice actors, because none of the voice actresses, you know, they don't sound like Kara Sedgwick, so you can't just by the voice actress to figure out the mystery. So I thought that was a smart way to do that too, was get a different actress to do the voice of Batwoman to throw people off the trail even more.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I was pretty surprised to find out it was Kira. Like, I don't really know her work beyond knowing that she's married to Kevin Bacon and that she was in Brooklyn 99, to be fair. But like, she's got like a really nice like, deeper, a little bit of a deeper register and like, I think like she has a little bit of like, I don't know, like classy, which I think kind of matches that noir theme that I think fit really well. So yeah, I know I totally agree there. Yeah, yeah. Um,
00:29:47
Speaker
And, you know, I think another thing I didn't quite like was the use of Bane in
Bane's Underutilization in Media
00:29:51
Speaker
this. I think Bane... I've been really annoyed with almost every iteration of Bane in other media, probably with the exception of the Arkham games, because it seems like they're always underplaying his intelligence and they're always just using him as a henchman.
00:30:08
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like nobody knows that Bane is supposed to be really smart. Like he's just typically the muscle. I was confused cause like, did Bane die? Like that was kind of crazy. I didn't really fully remember that. Oh, uh, yeah, I'm not sure. Um,
00:30:32
Speaker
I don't know, that's a good question. He just like falls into the pit of fire. Yeah, but you know, that's happened so many times in this. Like we did the world's finest one a while back with the Superman Batman team up. And in that, you know, it seems like he blows up in the airship, right? And, you know, when Batman and Harley Quinn are in the parachute going to safety, you know, she screams pudding. And then, you know, Batman says at this point, he probably is.
00:30:59
Speaker
I guess that's fair true. They say like, you know, if you don't see a body in a comic, then- First rule of comics, you don't see a body, you're not always dead. And even if you do see a body, it's still up for negotiation. That's true. What did they say? Like the only people who stayed dead are like Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, but it's not even true about Gwen Stacy anymore. Well, yes. So it was originally the only people who stayed dead in comics are, it was like, it was like a list, right? It was Uncle Ben stays dead, Gwen Stacy,
00:31:27
Speaker
Bruce Wayne's parents, Bucky and Jason Todd. And, you know, they brought back Jason Todd, they brought back Bucky, they brought back a version of Gwen Stacy, right? She's an alternate reality one. And they brought back a version of Thomas Wayne, so. Uncle Ben's next. Uncle Ben's next, yeah, Uncle Ben's the only one who stayed dead pretty much.
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah. He'll be in the next Spider-Man film. Yeah. I mean, in general, what did you think about the Bruce and Kathy relationship, though? Like, the weird stuff with Barbara aside. Like, what did you think of how they developed that aspect of it?
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't shake the Selena Kyle thing. Like they do mention like, is it Selena Kyle at the start? And then obviously at the end, they have that Selena Kyle short. And it's like about how Bruce, I mean, seemingly does enjoy the excitement of like chasing somebody. So I thought that was really interesting. Like, I think it makes a lot of sense that he's like attracted to that quality of her. And I honestly, if they leaned into that on purpose, like I would like
00:32:40
Speaker
I would like that because I think it makes a lot of sense for him. And I feel like they did a good job of developing it. He was obviously very interested in following her at the start because he wanted to find out who Batwoman was, but ended up having a really good time. And I thought there was a lot of fun moments along their little romance, particularly with the little bodyguards. I thought that was a little fun.
00:33:05
Speaker
So yeah, no, I thought it was good. I actually liked it. And I kind of wish that she had another appearance or like kind of got to learn more about her.
Comparison: 'Mystery of the Batwoman' vs 'Mask of the Phantasm'
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah, it, you know, it's funny is when I'm thinking about this, like hearing you say that just made me mentally compare this to Mask of the Phantasm. In both of those, we've got this, this female vigilante who starts who's more ruthless. So it does seem like it's, it's taken a lot of notes from Mask of the Phantasm, whereas
00:33:33
Speaker
I think it drew a much firmer line. I think they're willing to go a lot further in Bruce's condemnation of Andrea in that. And then you have the whole thing where she literally gets consumed by vengeance in the end. Whereas this one, it didn't quite go that same route, right? It's like he almost kind of like... I feel like that's kind of a missed opportunity with them going off at the end.
00:34:03
Speaker
didn't quite fit with the type of story they're trying to tell here. But other than that, I thought that the way that they set her up and the way that they play up their romance, and yeah, I think the Selena parallels are obvious, right? Or also you can compare it to with Talia, like the whole, you know, adventurous type that he's got this, he's drawn to. I think those are, it's true in both of those cases, I think.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah and I also think like Bruce kind of understands wanting to like cross that line so I feel like I guess the way I saw it was like I think he kind of just I feel like he's always kind of drawn to characters like that because he understands it and like for him he would never want to cross that line because he doesn't think he'll come back but
00:34:51
Speaker
I don't know. Like, I think that that's why he's kind of forgiving of characters are drawn to those characters. I feel like it was pretty in line with who he is. I think it also kind of makes sense that they went off into the sunset because she doesn't know who he is. Oh, that's a good point. Down the line. Knowing that it's true. That's a good point. Yeah, I forgot about that aspect of it.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's a difference too. She knows that he's Batman in Master the Phantasm, so that's another difference from it. Yeah, I mean, this was the last DCAU movie we ever got, so we never even had an opportunity to have her come back as Batwoman. But I think mostly what I liked was just that
00:35:38
Speaker
that trio and the way they set it up and they all have different motivations for doing it. And also they bring they each bring something different to the table too. I thought that was a really cool way of handling because it shows that you know, in a way it's kind of critical of the overall Batman mythos because it's like, look, this this shit is not easy. You can't just do it by yourself. It takes a lot of work together. And I kind of like the day they did that because it
00:36:02
Speaker
In a way, it's part like, you know, maybe kind of like a meta criticism of the Batman story, but also in universe, it works too to show just like how hard it is to be Batman and the fact that it takes these three people in order to equal one Batman.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I also feel like they do a really good job of like representing like female
Female Representation in the Film
00:36:25
Speaker
characters. I feel like lately, especially in live action films, it gets a little bit cliche the way they try to like have girl power, but I felt like
00:36:34
Speaker
you know one of the common tropes with like female heroines is like they'll like be like super stoic and like show up the male character at the expense of like the male character which is like never good for both parties so I'm like I think one thing that I really liked was that they were like they showed that all of those characters are badasses but like
00:36:56
Speaker
you know, they respect Batman. Like, I think one scene was like, he was talking about a gun that they confiscated from the or they found at the crime scene. And he was like, Oh, like, I think he said something like it'll shoot at like 200 feet or something. And she corrects him and she says 500. But then she like adds it's because she measured the mag or whatever. And so like, that makes sense to me. It's like, it's not just because she's just like, crazy intelligent and going to be better than Batman off the start. So I like that.
00:37:25
Speaker
Well, also too, I think it's very similar to what Red Hood did was that it's finding a way to question that whole should Batman cross that line, should Batman kill, without doing it in the very
00:37:43
Speaker
annoying cliche way you always see happen in fandom when it's always like, well, Batman should kill the Joker. And it's like, yeah, I've heard that debate 1000 times. You're not to bring anything new to it. Instead, show me it. Show me that debate in a different way. Like, you know, I feel like the best scene under the Red Hood is when Jason confronts Bruce and he says like, I don't want he's like, I didn't come back because I want revenge against you. I don't hate you. I forgave you a long time ago.
00:38:10
Speaker
I can't understand why you're letting him live after he took me away from you. Like it was just such an emotional gut punch of a scene. And you get a bit of that in this too, where you find this, you know, this questioning of Batman's methods, because yeah, you've got these, these three crime bosses who are trying to sell weapons to Kasny and cause a and cause a war. And
00:38:35
Speaker
And this life that Duquesne's father was involved in ended up getting her mother killed. So there does get to be a point when you're like, when is enough enough? And so I think that they did a pretty good job of having that debate out in the course of this movie.
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of wish they touched on it at the end, like a little bit more for sure. I definitely think that's part of what makes Batman unique is that he never crosses that line. Yeah. But I do think it's like part of his like, for him specifically, he can't come back or he doesn't think he can. But then, you know, I do like, like, they, yeah, they touched on it a little bit when Sonya is talking about how like,
00:39:18
Speaker
When she's a cop, she knows there's a line, but when she's got the mask on, she just doesn't even see the line, which I thought was really interesting.
00:39:27
Speaker
But like the reason why I thought that was also interesting was because for her, you know, like the mask is fat woman. So like when it comes off, she's fine. But like, you know, they always say like Bruce Wayne is the mask. And so that I think it's a little bit different for him. So I thought that was kind of interesting. Well, it's also because she's also able to differentiate herself a step beyond Bruce's because, you know, she's sharing that mask with two other people.
00:39:51
Speaker
True. So that's another aspect of it too that I thought was pretty interesting. And you mentioned the bodyguards and that reminded me of probably one of my favorite moments in this movie when Batman goes into Cassie's room and he's investigating and the guard comes in and he just sees Batman and Batman just stands there and looks at him and narrows his eyes and the crook just turns around, walks away and the other guy comes in says like, what's going on? He's like, nothing, nothing.
00:40:19
Speaker
that is probably the smartest henchman ever yes in Gotham City history yeah he's just like look I am NOT gonna mess with Batman yeah no I thought that was really fun like that was I think that's kind of like what I'm talking about with like some of the little moments in the film I think they just do a really good job of like
00:40:39
Speaker
adding in the humor, but knowing who the characters are and staying true to them. The henchmen were really great elements of humor during that chase scene when they're in the mall. They're being silly, one of them's trying on hats, and I thought that was a really fun little chase scene there when they're trying to
00:40:56
Speaker
like get them and they're just way out of the league. So yeah, no, I really liked those little elements. That's why I was kind of grateful that they kept some of the involvement of like the bat family, like Alfred and Tim to a minimum, but like had those lines be really quality. Cause I thought that basically everything Tim said was like either like very endearing or really funny. So I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that scene when
00:41:22
Speaker
when Rocky is showing Tim how to access the secret level in the video game. It's also a nice way of showing a little bit more about her character and also showing her intelligence. And we also get a nice little beat from Tim there when he's like, Alfred's going to be impressed that Alfred's going to be upset that he's been waiting all for 30 minutes for you to come down. Yeah. Rocky gives me a lot of Felicity spoke vibes.
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, but I think she's done in the right amount of moderation. I think Felicity started to grade on me in the later seasons when her involvement became so much more in the show. I had the same problem with Chloe in Smallville too. I think it's that type of character, you gotta dole it out just a little bit. You can't go too much with it, because I think then it becomes overpowering.
00:42:14
Speaker
Yeah, it goes from like cute to a little annoying. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm glad they gave us just the right amount of that kind of enthusiasm and, you know, little, you know, I guess snarkiness, but not going too far.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah, I also really like how different all three of them are and how well they work together. Back to what you were talking about, it is really hard to be Batman. You need three completely different types of people to be able to be Batman. But I thought that was a really good representation of female characters because they're all different types of people. So I thought that was really, really well done.
00:42:59
Speaker
Something else that was kind of surprising about it was just the overall design of Sonya because she, you know, in the original animated series when it was still on Fox, they had
00:43:13
Speaker
Renee Montoya was dressing almost all the time in a police uniform. But when she was in, when they did the new Batman Adventures, she was, you know, wearing pretty much the exact same outfit that Sonya wears. And also, you know, Sonya also seems to be a Latina as well. So, very similar design. It made me wonder if they had originally wanted, meant that role to be for Renee, but then they decided, then they felt that maybe they didn't want to go that far with that character.
00:43:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, I did see that as well. It's kind of hard to say, because I feel like, especially with Bruce Timm's design, you kind of just switch the hair color
Critique of Character Design and Body Types
00:43:51
Speaker
out. Yeah. And it's a new character. Well, that reminds me of something else, too, that the line when he says that you have similar body type to Batwoman. I'm like, well, in the DCAU, all of them have a similar body type. They've all got the exact same model shit.
00:44:10
Speaker
yeah no that's a really that's a very fair point yeah they're all like super blocky for the men and then like super like tiny for the women yeah for sure yeah well even like the men have a little bit more diversity and body types like you've got like um you know
00:44:26
Speaker
you know Batman and Alfred too, but even like the adult men like, you know, the Flash and Nightwing, they're much slimmer. Whereas the women almost all have that same like, you know, triangle torso.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's super true. And it's not a knock on that art. I love that art style, actually. But it's just it is it is something you notice after you've watched a lot of these shows. Like, if you would put a lot of these, if you'd watch a lot of these movies in black and white, you might have trouble telling telling some of the female characters apart.
00:45:01
Speaker
Oh, for sure. I mean, to me, she also kind of looks like hot girl without the mask. Oh, my God, you're right. Absolutely. Yes, I I not even realize that. But yes, 100 percent. And, you know, like you said, Kathy obviously has that similarity to Selena Kyle. Rocky, in a way, you know, she kind of resembles Harley Quinn without the when she's in her when she's not wearing the makeup.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, definitely all kind of have some. So I don't think we had a whole lot to say because this is a short movie. And like all the DC animated movies, they're all like, you know, just about an hour and change or so. So there's not a whole lot of room to explore a lot of this stuff in depth. But was there anything else that kind of stood out to you with this movie? Anything else you wanted to mention?
Kathy's Relationship with Her Father: Depth and Nuance
00:45:49
Speaker
I do really like Kathy's relationship with her dad. Like that was kind of something that I was thinking about. Like I think they just do a good job of making sure none of the characters come off as annoying. I feel like, you know, like the fact that in the end, like, I mean, I think there's a lot of like really sweet moments, right? Like, like when Rocky's boyfriend was trying to push her away and then when they're in the prison and she's visiting him and
00:46:13
Speaker
And he knows that she's doing something dangerous. But in the end, I thought it was really nice that Batman helped get him out. And then they have that sweet moment. And kind of similar, I thought the whole relationship with Kathy and her dad was really sweet. Her backstory kind of reminds me of Huntress. And Huntress, I really like Huntress, but she's so angry. And so I don't know. It's nice to kind of see the inverse of that.
00:46:42
Speaker
you know, having a happy ending there. So I thought that was really nice. I think that's the only thing I kind of wanted to add there. No, I thought I noticed the Huntress similarity as well. I think. And I wonder if maybe that was kind of part of the the the one of the driving ideas behind this movie, because, you know, during the No Man's Land story in the comics, Huntress did become Batgirl for a brief period. So I wonder if that was kind of the idea of going with it. But then they decided to use Batwoman instead. Yeah. And
00:47:13
Speaker
But yeah, the Huntress angle, and I think that they do, I think you're right. They do some better ways of handling this than they do with Huntress a lot of the time. You know, I also like Huntress too, but yeah, you're right. She can lean a little bit too much into the just, you know, I'm always angry stereotype of, but also the, just like her antagonism for Batman, whereas here it's, you know, it's much more of a respect for Batman, I think. So that aspect of it, I think was handled much better here.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Was there anything you wanted to mention around like the little feature at the end, the chase me? No, see, I remember you mentioned this and I'm guessing, did you watch this on, on max? Oh yeah. Did you not see it? No, I didn't. I've got, I actually have this movie on, on, uh, on DVD. So I watched it in through my flex library. So the chase, I don't have a DVD player. I have the DVDs, but I put them on, I put them all in a hard drive and I run it through my plex server. So.
00:48:12
Speaker
Oh, all right. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm keeping physical media alive because, you know, especially now that Max is pulling stuff left, right and center, realize it's time to, you know, keep stuff in my own library. Right. And so so I got this, you know, a while ago and the chase me feature was like a special feature on the DVD, but it wasn't like part of the main movie. Whereas I guess on Max, they tacked it out at the end. Yeah. So so I didn't watch chase me again. I've seen it before, but it's been a long time since I saw it.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's like pretty simple. I think they always I really love when DC does shorts. But yeah, like it's basically Bruce is at a party and he's bored and all these women are coming up to him because he's Bruce Wayne and he gets away because there's the bat signal and then Selena Kyle's
00:49:02
Speaker
Um, up to no good. And so they're kind of just chasing them around town. She brings them into the zoo and then they have this romantic moment that she gets caught by the police. So it's like pretty, it's very Batman catwoman. Um, but I, I really, I really appreciate like the little shorts there. I think, um, I like how they let like,
00:49:24
Speaker
the characters and the music and the animation do most of the heavy lifting. Like I don't think it needed any dialogue. So it's just a fun little feature. I wonder if that was at all inspired by the scene at the beginning of the long Halloween comic because you have Bruce and Selena where they're dancing at the wedding. And then later on when he's Batman, he encounters Catwoman and they go on and he chases her through Gotham. And it's kind of like paralleling the dance they had at the wedding too.
00:49:52
Speaker
Obviously they didn't have the dance between them and their civilian identities in this, but I always loved that scene in the comic when they did that. Yeah, yeah, no, they have great moments. I am a fan of their coupling. Oh yeah, same here, same here. But how did you feel with that being connected to this movie, like
'Chase Me' Short: Thematic Connections and Animation Style
00:50:12
Speaker
in the same feature? Did it feel like a disconnect from the movie itself, or did you think that it kind of fit as like an ending for this?
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, I thought it worked pretty well. I think like in terms of like,
00:50:25
Speaker
like the themes of it. I think it matches very well. Cause it's like, obviously there's a lot of like parallels that we've talked about between the two women and also just like the music and like kind of the one thing I don't like is I don't like the cat woman design. Yeah. Yeah. That will always kind of, it just like takes me out of it for a little bit. Cause I'm like, why is her face white? It just doesn't, I don't know. It doesn't work. But other than that, like the styling around it was really, really nice. Um,
00:50:53
Speaker
And so, no, I thought it fit really well. It just like made me question whether or not Kathy's supposed to resemble like the relationship, but you know, other than that, I thought it fit really well. Yeah, I'd have to double check to see what her model sheet was in the New Batman Adventures. But I think, I'm not sure, I think she may have still been, I don't, I do remember that in the original one she was,
00:51:22
Speaker
she was blonde, but I can't remember if they even showed her with her mask off in the New Batman Adventures. Yeah, I don't recall either. I think I'm just so used to the iconic short hair. Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. That's become the pinnacle Catwoman design ever since that came out. I think that was, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't that Darwin Cook who designed that? Hmm, I don't know.
00:51:49
Speaker
I think it might've been, I'm not sure. Either way, it's a design that I've loved. It totally works with her incorporating the cat persona, but still keeping in mind that she's a thief and making it to be much more of a functional design as opposed to skin-tight leotard.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, I definitely agree. It's like all this long hair flowing about, like, how does that work when you're fighting back? Yeah, yeah. The only other thing I wanted to mention about this is, what do you think about this film's legacy? Because I think it's kind of been, you know, kind of been forgotten to history. I think maybe it got a little bit, I think it's kind of been overshadowed by the fact that they had a very different Batwoman when they introduced in the comics a few years after this.
00:52:37
Speaker
And also the fact that it had been a few years since the DCAU was done by the time this came out. Yeah, that's why I was so excited. I'm also kind of curious like why that was on your list because I think is that like the list of movies that you want to talk about? No, it's just it's the list of movies that I own.
00:52:57
Speaker
Oh, okay. Nevermind then. I thought it was like a list of movies that you wanted to talk about. So that was kind of like really surprising me because I agree. Like I don't think people will really remember this film at all. Actually, I got a correction because this actually did not, this wasn't the end of it. This came out in, this movie came out in 2003, but Justice League Unlimited ran from 2004 to 2006.
00:53:22
Speaker
Oh, like end of the animated. Yeah, so Justice League Unlimited was the end of this. For some reason, I thought this movie came out after the DCAU had finished. Maybe just because I saw it so many years after. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it doesn't really, the continuity doesn't, it's not very clear. Yeah, but I don't know, as far as legacy, I think it's hard.
00:53:45
Speaker
It's a good film, but, you know, there's so many other films that will overshadow it. Like, for example, like Batman Master the Fantastic, like, I think it's like darker and deeper. And so like that film, I think that film is definitely gonna have a like, see this one.
00:54:03
Speaker
I think it's also like the fact that it uses a lot of new characters that never come back. So I think it's going to be a little bit hard. And like the villain is kind of forgettable in its role. Like, you know, Bane is barely in the film.
00:54:19
Speaker
Penguin doesn't do too, too much. So yeah, that's why like, I, for me, this film is like, something that I kind of like to hold close. It's like a little secret. Yeah. Because most people don't know about it. But I would be really surprised if anybody else really knew this film. Yeah, it was very much overshadowed. And I think it's,
00:54:43
Speaker
I don't know, it's weird because I think it's definitely not as good as Master of the Phantasm, like I said, but I think that the other Batman animated film that was released in this continuity was Sub-Zero, the Batman and Mr. Freeze one from 98, which honestly, I think this one's a lot better than Sub-Zero. I don't think I've seen that one. Oh, okay. It came out, it was originally supposed to be a tie-in to Batman and Robin,
Comparison to 'Sub-Zero': Assessing 'Mystery of the Batwoman'
00:55:10
Speaker
but
00:55:10
Speaker
when Batman and Robin bombed, they pushed the release date back a year to kind of distance itself a little bit. Oh, I see. But it was decent. It wasn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I think compared to this movie, this movie is definitely better than that one was.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, but they didn't really capitalize on this film. It's not like they brought back Batwoman along with this film. It wasn't like they were trying to introduce the character. So I think that's another thing that kind of hurts the film. But I do kind of miss having those one-off adventures that don't always have to align to the main story. Because I think it allows creators to have a little bit more creativity.
00:55:54
Speaker
Like we were talking about, it's so creative to have three Batwoman instead of one. And I don't think that they would really have a story like that released today. So that's something that I also really appreciate. Well, I think, too, they had the freedom of the fact that nobody had done really anything with Batwoman in a long time at that point. So they weren't stepping on anybody's toes. They weren't going to be offending anyone by not adhering to some comics version of her. Because most people at that time regarded the original Batwoman as being just kind of like, you know,
00:56:25
Speaker
ridiculous character anyway. So yeah, so it gave them a little bit more freedom to experiment. Whereas if this had come out after Kate Kane was introduced, I don't think it would have flown at all. That's a really good point. And maybe that's why people like you know, they're a little bit afraid to kind of step outside of the box right now because there are so many strong opinions. So yeah, I don't know. That's a good point.
00:56:49
Speaker
But yeah, it's an enjoyable film. Like, you know, it's definitely worth a watch if you haven't seen it. But yeah, but thank you for coming to talk about it. Thanks for requesting it. And why don't you tell people where they can find you?
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I'm on Instagram as Kanisha underscore Rose. So K-E-N-I-S-H-A underscore Rose. And yeah, that's basically where I'm at. And I really appreciate being on the show again. It's always really fun. I love talking about comics. I love talking about Batman. Well, yeah, we got to have you back on again. So let's not make it another few years before you come back next time.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. But anyway, that does it for us too. We are at SuperheroCinephiles.com is the website, SuperCinemapod on Instagram and BlueSky, technically also on Twitter, but I kind of stay away from there because Elon Musk is a psychopath, so.
00:57:47
Speaker
Mostly you'll be seeing me on Blue Sky or on Instagram. And also I've got a comic book that is, by the time we're recording and by the time you guys hear this, it will maybe be out or maybe be close to being out, but you can find out more about that by going to crowdfunder.com slash paragonscomic. That's crowdfunder without the e.com slash paragonscomic. Links to that are in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time.
00:58:19
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Superhero Cinephiles is produced by me, Percival Constantine, with the support of Zencaster. The show is created by myself and the late, great Derek Ferguson, our host, Emeritus. Visit us on the web at SuperheroCinephiles.com to listen to past episodes or find out how you can be a guest yourself. Support the show by visiting our advertiser links or click the Buy Me a Coffee link on the website to make a one-time donation. You can also support us by visiting Crowdfunder.com slash ParagonsComic. That's Crowdfunder with no E,
00:58:47
Speaker
dot com slash paragons comic and help support my superhero comic book paragons of earth we are super cinema pod on both instagram and blue sky so please be sure to follow us we'd also appreciate if you could rate and review the show on apple podcasts and share us with your friends
00:59:22
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.