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71. Mr. Brainy Ballerina Unplugged: The Partner's POV of the Dance World with my Husband, Steve Sloan
157 Plays7 days ago
In this week’s podcast episode, I’m joined by my husband, THE Mr. Brainy Ballerina Steve Sloan, to reflect on our journey together - from his background as a college soccer player to supporting my career as a professional dancer, and now navigating life as parents. We share stories from our early days of dating, his first impressions of the ballet world, and the infamous “apple crisp incident” during tech week.
Steve also opens up about the sacrifices we’ve both made for each other’s careers, how his corporate work “selling robots to scientists” compares to the ballet world, and what lessons dancers can teach everyone about resilience and determination.
We also tackle some fun audience questions, including Steve’s hidden talent, his favorite roles he’s seen me perform, and his heartfelt advice for anyone in a relationship with a dancer.
This episode is full of laughter, honesty, and love. Enjoy this behind-the-scenes look at our marriage and the ways ballet has shaped our lives!
Key Points in this Episode:
- Steve’s background as a soccer player and how it connected him to ballet culture
- Our early relationship and the sacrifices we made for each other’s careers
- Steve’s first time seeing me perform (which was also his first time at a ballet ever!)
- Quirky realities of living with a dancer
- How the ballet industry and corporate America could learn from each other
- Reflections on supporting each other’s dreams through marriage and parenthood
Links and Resources:
Get 10% off registration for Étoile Dance Competition with code BRAINY10.
Get your copy of The Ultimate Audition Guide
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
1-1 CAREER MENTORING: book your complimentary career call
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Transition to Dance Educator
00:00:00
Speaker
when we were dating, I was like, I can do my boring day job anywhere. And you are doing something that's unbelievably cool. And I just think it's so rare that people get to do what they really love for a living.
00:00:15
Speaker
And so like, if I could somehow facilitate that and just make that easier for for you and for us, I was glad to do it.
00:00:26
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Introducing Steve Sloan's Perspective
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina of Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by my husband, Mr. Brainy Ballerina, Steve Sloan. And I wanted to bring him on today to share the perspective as the partner of a ballerina who is not from the ballet world and kind of get his opinion on the ballet world from an outsider perspective, as well as just sharing some of our history and our background.
Cultural Clashes: Ballet vs Soccer
00:01:26
Speaker
So, Steve, why did you take your very first dance class?
00:01:30
Speaker
Well, I knew were going to ask me this, and I still don't know the answer because I don't remember if it was bringing the girls' soccer team to I feel like that counts more because that was my first ballet class, right? yeah Because we went to take a ballroom dancing class that I did not enjoy. And I knew that was not going to be on the top of your mind either because we never went back and did it.
00:01:54
Speaker
But bringing the girls soccer team in Columbia that I coached to take ballet instead of a practice was the first time I stepped into a dance class. Yes, which was a very interesting experience for both of us in communication for us because you had said, I want to bring my soccer team. So background, Steve has played soccer all his life. And when we lived in Columbia, Missouri, he coached a girl's soccer team.
00:02:22
Speaker
And he had said, I want to bring the team the ballet studio to do a ballet class. And in my mind, I thought, okay, he wants to do like cross training. He wants to get them prepared for their season, learn some technical things from ballet.
00:02:36
Speaker
And Steve's mind was like, this will be really good team bonding. So we were not thinking the same thing. And when they came in the culture of soccer and the culture ballet, which we're going to get into, but the culture of practices and class is very different.
00:02:51
Speaker
So the whole time, They were talking to each other. I mean, they were very chatty the whole time. And I'm getting increasingly more frustrated because I'm like, okay, everyone's not talking like listen, like I'm trying to move this class along and I'm used to the culture of ballet where you come in the studio and you don't talk the whole time. Everybody zip it. Yeah. And after class, I said to Steve, oh, that was really frustrating. Like they weren't listening to me. And and he was like, you were being too mean.
00:03:18
Speaker
Not only was I looking for a little bit of cross training, yeah, and a little bit of team bonding, but I was also looking to not plan a practice for the night. So you you did that job for me, but you're absolutely correct. That was the thing that we talked about at home later was that in soccer at practice, if it's quiet, it's bad.
00:03:37
Speaker
If the kids on the team are not communicating to each other while they're doing anything during the practice, it's really bad. And that's one thing that they're always being taught, you know, so when you go into that, and it's everyone just as kind of doing everything on their own, and looking around and seeing what other people it's a much different experience.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yes, yeah, I was like, Oh, I didn't realize that that was part of the culture. And even the sport of soccer is like constantly talking to each other constantly. Yeah. You know, in ballet, you don't see you don't get to talk. You have to communicate with your body language, with your eyes.
00:04:09
Speaker
We have ways of communicating, but it's silent. So next time we did that class again, we did try it again. And then I did a little bit more of a fun class. Yeah. I got the vibe and we didn't we had a lot of fun the next time. But that first time was definitely an interesting experience for both of us. And I forgot about the ballroom class.
00:04:27
Speaker
I knew you did. Yeah. Because I only thought about it again recently in the lead up to this because I knew were going to ask me this to start. Because I thought, have I ever taken a different class?
00:04:38
Speaker
And like, yeah. We went to that ballroom class because we wanted, don't know, it was a fun thing to do on a Friday night or whatever. And then I just got paired with some older lady the whole time.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I said, what? Don't be rude. I'm just saying. I got paired with a woman who was not you. And I wanted to dance with you. So that was my yeah yeah that was my beef with ballroom class.
00:05:03
Speaker
We went because that was the first year that they had started using the professional ballet dancers for Missouri Stars. So we did this fundraiser at my company called Dancing with Missouri Stars. And traditionally had been local ballroom dancers who were paired with local celebrities for this really cool fundraiser.
00:05:21
Speaker
But that year... We had switched the format to having the professional ballet dancers be the ballroom pros. And I didn't have any ballroom experience or knowledge. And so I said to Steve, let's go to this ballroom dance class so I can learn something. Like, I don't know anything. And yes, we kind of thought going in that we would have, everyone would come with a partner and you get to stay with your partner.
00:05:46
Speaker
They kind of had everyone switch around partners. So everyone got a chance to dance together. Yeah. With each other. And yeah, I remember that you were not pleased that we weren't really together. Well, i also was just you like i don't like being not good at things.
00:06:02
Speaker
So. I had a baseline of zero dancing where like everyone else in there had been doing that before. Or were you who could just pick up all the counts and the steps very quickly.
00:06:14
Speaker
I just felt like I was out of my depth, you know, and I felt like I was not in a ah beginner class, right? Everyone else was, was a little bit more advanced. So I was trying to keep up and I was not doing well, which added to my lack of enjoyment of the event.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yes. So that leads me to my next
Sacrifices for Ballet Career
00:06:30
Speaker
question. Before we started dating, how much did you know about ballet? Absolute zero. You know, no one in my family did any sort of dance. It was all soccer all the time.
00:06:41
Speaker
Nobody in my extended family. We didn't live near them anyways, but I don't even know any of my cousins or anybody that did any sort of dance. So It was purely just from starting to be around you that i learned what professional ballet really was. you know I would even say go as far as to say I was ignorant to like the scale of really good professional classical ballet and things like that are as big as the Nutcracker.
00:07:10
Speaker
Some families who who have no dance exposure and nobody that does dance, they still go as a family during the holidays to see the Nutcracker or something like that. We never even did that. you know So there was there was zero zero dance was being introduced into our household.
00:07:23
Speaker
So even though you didn't have any background in dance or background ballet, when we started dating, it felt like you really quickly understood the culture and the demands of what I was doing as a high-level athlete.
00:07:35
Speaker
So could you share your background as an athlete? We mentioned soccer, but can you elaborate on that and just talk about how you were able to connect with my work from your experience?
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think it it wasn't just that it happened then, it continues to happen. I mean, we're however much farther in the future now, and we still find parallels when we're talking between the soccer world and the ballet world or something like that. But yeah, just growing up, playing soccer my whole life, playing soccer in college, you and i early on when we started dating, we quickly bonded over very similar family upbringings, moving family values, and then our lifestyle as being involved in an intense sport like dance or soccer when we were younger that took away from
00:08:23
Speaker
other things that we could have done. Right. So we were both very used to multiple nights a week being at practice or at rehearsal weekends, being at performances or being at games and tournaments. Like it was a very similar experience that we both had so that when I was done with that and you were still doing it at a professional level, it was easy to understand like what was going to be required of that.
00:08:47
Speaker
And even when we started dating, you were living in Michigan and I was living in Missouri ands I mean, within what, three months you had moved to Missouri, but you never batted an eye at me saying like, my job is here and I'm not leaving here.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah. Where a lot of people don't understand that. Like when you're a professional dancer or if you're a professional soccer player, you get a job and it's really hard to get another job. So yeah it would be a lot more reasonable for you to move to Missouri and find a job there.
00:09:16
Speaker
Yeah. In your field, then for me to move back to Michigan, where they're actually and the Detroit area was not any professional ballet and not any options for me. Right. Well, I mean, i was already at the point where I was working. I had long given up on the the hope that I could maybe play soccer professionally. Right. So that was something I abandoned at an early age in pursuit of of capitalism, I guess, um and just, you know, started working a boring boring day job. Right. So I always from early on when we were, when we were dating, I was like, I can do my boring day job anywhere.
00:09:51
Speaker
And you are doing something that's unbelievably cool. And I just think it's so rare that people get to do what they really love for a living.
00:10:03
Speaker
And so like, if I could somehow facilitate that and just make that easier for, for you and for us, I was glad to do it. Do you remember the first performance that you ever saw me do?
00:10:14
Speaker
I do. I don't remember what it was called, but I remember going to the theater. I definitely remember wearing some wrinkly khakis and a blazer that probably didn't fit me and sitting there holding flowers the whole time, like a dweeb in the audience.
00:10:32
Speaker
then I was like, never did that again, but no, just kidding. But I literally just like sat there and held them on my lap. Cause I was like, well, first ballet, people probably just bring flowers and stuff, right? That's the thing that people do. I don't remember what it was called. As soon as you tell me what the show was called, ah yeah it'll make sense. It might've been surge.
00:10:48
Speaker
I think it was Thirst. Thirst! Surge, Thirst. One of those classic, you know, contemporary ballet names. Thirst, Surge, yeah. I mean, i yeah, of course. i I remember going to it. I don't remember top to bottom what the show was, right, and all the pieces, but I just remember being, like, fixated and just how cool of an experience it was. What was your overall impression?
00:11:11
Speaker
My overall impression was i like coming to coming to see this and I like that this is what you do. It's really cool. And I like that you're going to be able to continue to do this and I'm going to be able to continue to like come see cool performances like that.
00:11:26
Speaker
And then without, you know, even saying like just how cool Columbia was and how, how small that company was and just getting to know all the dancers all the time. It was like going to a show felt like later on, it wasn't just getting to see you dance. It was like genuinely getting to see a lot of my friends dance. Right. Cause we were all, we were all very close there and I got to spend a lot of time with the company. So to the point where obviously, know,
00:11:50
Speaker
My family started coming in to see shows because they were like, this is awesome. They were getting in on it. they This was like something that they they didn't believe they never got to experience at a different time in our lives. And it was so cool that now somebody who was becoming a part of their family was doing that. And like they would always come to the shows too.
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah. And you would always come to both shows if we did two shows or however many we You'd come to multiple. And so – I remember you telling me that you would maybe watch like just me the first night and you would try to watch the whole picture the second night.
00:12:22
Speaker
I couldn't help but watch just you the first night because i had been living with you in the lead up to the show and had seen how like nervous and how hard, like hard you were working towards the show. And you were always telling me things that were going well, things that weren't going well, things you were concerned about, things that you thought,
00:12:41
Speaker
we really maybe need some more time to work on this. And so I was watching you because i was always wanting you to do really well in all the pieces that you were in. And then like, I would watch that night one and then night two, I would be like, oh, I wonder what Elise was doing here. I wonder what Carrie was doing here. They might've had a really cool part, you know, during that, during that piece. And I just never saw it because I was just watching you, even though you might've been like frozen for five minutes over in the corner. Yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
You know, at any given piece. And then obviously, like there was ones that that you weren't in where I could watch or the solos or duets or something like that, that are a little bit easier to watch. So or easier to to track everybody. But when you guys had a full like ensemble piece where there's nine people on the stage, I was very much just tracking you all the way across. And then, yeah, the next time I would try to divide my attention and see what else I missed on night one.
00:13:33
Speaker
Yes. And one fun fact about Steve is that he has a photographic memory. and Oh, geez. Actually, his brother, Sean, also does. They both can see something once and pretty much remember it. And so we were doing a piece choreographed by Brynn Cohn. And the opening of it, there was someone on the mic, Fernando, and he would be saying numbers. And the dancer had to, there were certain moves that went with the numbers. So she had to do the moves that went with the numbers.
00:13:57
Speaker
And they saw it both nights. And so they figured out like very quickly, which moves well with which numbers. And then the second night they said, Oh, Keely messed up. She didn't do number seven when he said seven. And it was a solo. Like no one else would have known that there was no inclination. Like, why would you guys know that? But you saw the piece two times and noticed that. And so we realized, Oh,
00:14:19
Speaker
Like they are both had this photographic memory that they can remember everything that happened. So then it kind of turned into this after each show and we would go out to celebrate afterwards.
Support During Tech Week and Stressful Shows
00:14:30
Speaker
The dancers and myself would kind of prod Steve to do his interpretation of the pieces. And they were always scarily accurate.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah. that did That very much did become a thing. And I forgot that it started by calling Keely out. And if Keely's listening out there, so I apologize, Keely, calling you out at the after party. But yeah, we I mean, that always became a thing. And I feel like even up to Karen being like, okay, Steve, like, show us this one, you know, at wherever we were at, at Broadway Brewery or somewhere for some kind of like an end after party and just had to. That was when I got nervous because then I had to perform for all of the dancers who had just put in all that work and and did that. And then they were finally getting to chill and have a drink and finally eat a gigantic plate of food after their multiple performance weekend.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Dance competition season is upon us, and if you're looking for a competition that's about artistry, performance, and growth, not just the trophy, then you need to check out Etoile Dance Competition.
00:15:27
Speaker
Etoile is a concert dance competition open to everyone, including beginners, pre-professionals, and adults, with inclusive leveling that makes it possible for anyone to score in the top overalls.
00:15:39
Speaker
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00:15:53
Speaker
Something unique to Atoile that I love is the opportunity for dance dancers to start the day off right with master classes taught by Atoile's esteemed panel of judges, all with professional dance backgrounds and teaching experience.
00:16:07
Speaker
Plus, every event includes a group contemporary performance with a chance to hone audition skills and build community with other dancers. This competition is truly something special.
00:16:19
Speaker
And right now, podcast listeners can get 10% off the registration with code BRAINY10. If you want a competition that emphasizes artistry, provides real, actionable feedback, and celebrates dancers of all levels, head to atwalcomp.com or find the link in the show notes to register today.
00:16:41
Speaker
Let's talk about your first Tech Week experience. Yeah. How would you describe Tech Week? I feel like we always called it Show Week. Are you are you using those interchangeably? Tech Week. I feel like that was your, yeah, I never i never like wanted to think I was cool enough to call it Tech Week, so always call it Show Week. My first Show Week experience was eye-opening from the point of is something switched in your behavior, your mood, your focus, your determination, which are always, always very on, but like to the point where I was looking around thinking like,
00:17:19
Speaker
am i living with the same person here with how serious you were taking it? So very quickly understood what my role was in show week. And that was making sure that there was food provided that was reasonable to eat that was during in the lead up to a performance, not an apple crisp.
00:17:37
Speaker
i We got to tell the apple crisp story. So yeah that was your very first show week experience. And well, at this time too, you were really getting into cooking because you had moved to Missouri two be with me while I'm in my dance career. You're working a regular nine to five while I'm working my nine to nine yeah every day. And so you get off work and you didn't really know anyone in town or people you didn't know were the dancers and we're all working crazy hours. And so you started cooking, and you started learning that skill. And then you were like, I'm going to make an apple crisp. This will be so nice for Caitlin. Yeah. She's going to just like really appreciate this.
00:18:11
Speaker
And I will say this now, like that was however many years ago. 13 years ago, I definitely had a much worse relationship with food, with my body, with all of that. Like there is nothing wrong with eating apple crisp on a show week and that's totally fine. And the fact that I got really mad about it was probably triggered by a comments that I had been given. Of course. By...
00:18:31
Speaker
somebody who was saying that needed go to the show. So yeah I was not in a good headspace. So I want to preface that it's not a bad thing to eat apple crisp during the show week and there's nothing wrong with desserts. But at that time I was in a bad place. And so I came home and I was like, why would you make this?
00:18:46
Speaker
You know, I can't eat this during a show week. Yeah. And I, not knowing anything, because I still had not been to my first show, had come from ah a household where baked goods are a love language.
00:18:58
Speaker
And I'm like, look at what I am doing. This is going to be so good. And then it might as well have been dumped on my head fresh out of the oven. Sorry, I'm painting you in a bad light here, but you did not react well. I didn't react well. That is like always my example. We can always just say the Apple Crisp incident and you know exactly what I'm talking about. That was my first introduction to show week, to tech week, yes right?
00:19:19
Speaker
But yeah, then I think you did quickly realize, okay, this is... Caitlin is not available. They go. Right. Like when I'm in that week, it's like, we're not hanging out. We're not hanging out. We're not doing anything extra during the, like, I'm not planning like, Hey, there's something going on on Wednesday. Like that's not happening.
00:19:35
Speaker
You know? And then I quickly got into the rhythm of understanding like, okay, what's the pre-show meal? All that kind of stuff where, like you said, yeah, I did have the extra free time. where I could help with some of those things. And I wanted to, because making your life easier meant that I wasn't going to get yelled at again for an apple crisp. I'm just joking. Don't put that in.
00:19:55
Speaker
Don't put that in. I mean, but yes, that was definitely an overreaction and I can see that now. But at the time, i i mean, I think it just kind of paints the picture that I was in a high stress environment and any dancer who has been through that knows that that is like a very focused, stressful week that you just, again, it was great that you understood that really quickly. And I feel like you had been in situations like that in your soccer background where it's like you're in a really busy final season. I guess you could equate it to where it's like you're just really keeping yourself focused.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, you definitely act and behave a little bit differently in lead ups to like bigger games, right? So we definitely had times where later in the season, during tournaments and like State Cup regionals, nationals, like where it's way different. But that is the complete opposite of ballet to soccer, where nobody's telling you what to eat.
00:20:42
Speaker
Nobody's worried about there was nobody on our team, because you're practicing three times a week and playing games on the weekends, like you need to be able to eat a lot. You know, you need to you need to get your carbs, like you can probably afford to have an apple crisp at some point. Well, so do dancers. And that's again, something that I was very uneducated in at that time and definitely struggled with what I could eat, when to eat, all of that was very
Living with a Dancer: Quirky Insights
00:21:04
Speaker
stressful. And I know a lot more now that I wish I had known then so that I could have Had a lot more energy, but I'm curious there's anything else funny or quirky that you learned about living with a dancer. and What's some funny dancer problems that you witnessed at our house?
00:21:19
Speaker
Dance bag smells bad. It's like the equivalent in soccer of like your shin guards coming out of your soccer bag. Like they always smell bad. Or like if there's goalies in soccer, like famously their gloves are terrible, like, and they just like stay in the bag. And if you take them out, you can smell them from a ah mile away.
00:21:36
Speaker
I don't know many other like quirky things about living with a dancer, like things that you do around the house. They're all pretty normal. Definitely like leaving stuff in your dance bag, like an apple or a banana that I would find later like by chance.
00:21:50
Speaker
Like people always say you never want to look in a woman's purse. You never want to look in a dancer's bag. and Literally anything could be in there. Anything be in there. Well, you would find it or our dog would find it. He was always getting bananas or apples out of my bag.
00:22:02
Speaker
Later when we had a dog, there was no more fruit in your bag because he would get it and he would just eat eat it whole. yeah But early on, like that stuff would just stay in there. Yeah. Well, from the beginning of our relationship, you really understood that my career was finite and you also understood the logistics of everything that went into it.
00:22:19
Speaker
What sacrifices do you feel like you've made in your life and in your career because of my career in dance? Early on, we figured out that we wanted to live together. We were pretty pretty serious from the start.
00:22:31
Speaker
So people look at it like, you moved, right? That's a big thing. But like you and I growing up, we talked about that. Like moving was not that big of a deal. We moved a lot. Yeah, for reference, how many times did you move?
00:22:44
Speaker
I think we were talking about this the other day. I think just counting living at home you know before going to college was nine times, right? Eight or nine times. And it was always around the Midwest, being born in upstate New York, but then we got to the Midwest pretty early on. And then it was Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, like places like that. So going to somewhere in Missouri, it wasn't like I was going to California or Florida you know or somewhere that was just like, we've never been before. And I don't know, you know it still felt Midwestern enough.
00:23:13
Speaker
And at that point I was still working a science job in a lab and I was not crazy about mine, you know, right? Obviously if I had a much, a job that I liked a lot better in Detroit,
00:23:25
Speaker
this might've been a different conversation that maybe it would have taken a little longer, but it was so easy for me to jump ship from there, you know, at that point. And I found a place that looked good and yeah, it was a good start. And then obviously got me on my way to where I am now. We had that conversation very early on.
00:23:40
Speaker
That was, you're doing something that you can only do here and you're at a company that you really, really like. So I can get a job as a chemist working in a lab pretty much anywhere we go with this entry level kind of a science background here.
00:23:55
Speaker
But you can't do what you want to do and what you love to do everywhere, right? And you have a really good situation here. So we always kind of had talked about once it's time for you to stop dancing, maybe then we'll take a look at moving somewhere for my career if there's better options out there. That turned out to be the case.
00:24:13
Speaker
And we just didn't know that that would turn out to be the exact same summer you retired. It happened very quickly. Yeah. yeah Yeah, that was a shock and definitely ah hard time to, of course for me going through a lot of identity crisis and then leaving my community. And i remember when we went to, we moved to Indiana. I remember I came home from the grocery store, like two weeks of us being there.
00:24:37
Speaker
And I was just like in tears, you know, i'm like and I have said, everyone here is so mean. And you were like, I don't think everyone here is mean. I just think they don't all know you.
00:24:49
Speaker
In Columbia, Missouri, I literally, i couldn't leave the house without running into five people I knew. yeah was the school director. I danced in the company and it was a very supportive arts and local community. And so you kind of felt like a little bit of a mini celebrity in this town. And then we did Dance You With The Stars. So we met so many people. Like our world, I felt like I knew everyone. And then I went to the store and no one knew me. And I was like, oh, they're so mean. And you were like, they just don't know who you are. I didn't get recognized by anyone in the cereal.
00:25:19
Speaker
Which sounds so like full of myself, but it was just like, oh, I'm in a place where like, I don't know everyone. And it just felt very weird. Yeah. And it was a bigger place and it was a new place and it was still in the Midwest. And a lot of things were still similar, but a lot of things were different.
00:25:35
Speaker
That was an interesting one where it was, we knew you were retiring that year. i had definitely started looking at leaving my job then, you know, looking at where we are now I think it was the right decision because I'm still with the same company that took us to Indiana. That was a good like stepping stone move for us for sure.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. But the timing was was not good because yeah, you were transitioning from stopping dancing. You had a whole new role with MCB, which you were so excited about. and that was the toughest part was pulling you away from that. So I definitely sacrificed probably some things that I could have done career progression wise while you were still dancing.
00:26:14
Speaker
And then I asked you to do thing. But I asked you to do it all at the same time and very quickly. So yeah, sorry about that. But I think that's part of marriage. And we both had to decide what times in our marriage and what times in our careers was it yeah someone else's turn to take the lead.
Industry Culture Comparisons
00:26:30
Speaker
It wasn't anything that was a shock. These were things we talk about open communication. These were things that you and I talked about, like when we first started dating. Not that we so we predicted the future, but we definitely said at some point, this will likely happen.
00:26:42
Speaker
Is this okay? And we are but we were both always on board with each other for that. Yeah. Let's talk more about your work. So you work in corporate America. Can you talk about what your job is now? It's funny because Ollie just asked me something the other day when his friend Chloe was over. They were talking about what I did for work. And what I always say my five words or less elevator pitches. I sell robots to scientists, which is true.
00:27:05
Speaker
And so then they were all, Ollie and Chloe, as as five and six-year-olds were jazzed because they were like, you sell robots? That's insane. Can we buy one? And I said, if you're a scientist one day. So they both made a plan to become scientists.
00:27:17
Speaker
So I work for a company called Beckman Coulter Life Sciences. We make a number of different life science research tools and instruments. And I sell systems that are for automated liquid handling, which is just a fancy way of saying that machines and robots move liquid around in small increments for people that are doing really important science.
00:27:38
Speaker
So you've seen a lot about the ballet industry throughout our time. yeah What do you think that ballet could learn about workplace culture from being in a more corporate environment and vice versa? What would you say?
00:27:51
Speaker
ah What a question. HR is a is like a negative thing in corporate America. It's like, oh, HR, gotta call HR or whatever, right? you know You always hear people making jokes about that, but like ballet companies could use some HR.
00:28:03
Speaker
Ballet companies could use some employee protections. I feel like ballet companies do a good job of the same thing that companies like mine do promoting from within, right? They're not always looking at external talent. There's a lot of correlation there in the fact that companies get talent that they're excited about and they're they're excited about retaining it.
00:28:25
Speaker
Now, to the extent that they want to reward people and retain them is a little bit lacking. There's definitely instances that I've seen, you know, and this just comes to the whole issue with funding for the arts as it is, but like people are not being rewarded like they should for doing a good job at ballet companies. Right. And it's the same thing with my company as well. When people have like the company that they're with and they're in a good situation, they're not looking to leave.
00:28:52
Speaker
But there's a little bit of turnover and sometimes the turnover and you know the reasons people leave to take other jobs in the ballet company is interesting. But yeah, that's that's something I would say. What do you think about as far as what corporations can learn from ballet? like What does ballet do right?
00:29:07
Speaker
What could corporate America learn from ballet companies. Stop taking itself so seriously. Like, let your people enjoy and enjoy what they do and not be not be stressed all the time about appeasing shareholders and trying to, you know, and everything's just so like,
00:29:25
Speaker
we got to hit this and we need this at this time and numbers are looking bad and it's always about corporate stuff. And especially the company that I work for is always about growth.
00:29:36
Speaker
You always have to be growing. And of course, ballet companies want to be doing the same thing. They want to be putting more people in the seats, but it's not the end all be all like at the end of the day for ballet,
00:29:47
Speaker
the art is what people care the most about. And i think there's a lot of people that will put on a performance and if they're really pleased with it, they would like there to be a thousand people in the in the audience. But if there's not, and they are really pleased with their work and happy and feel fulfilled in what they've done, then that's good.
00:30:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I think to your point, the other way, you know, Valley companies, like that's something they could really take from corporations is that like, Yes, there's so much to be said for just being happy with the arts you're putting out and being really proud of your work. And also, we do need to get butts in the seats and we do need to get funding because we want to be able to grow. And so I understand like having hit your numbers and hitting your metrics, like you're in sales. So there are very specific metrics you have to hit. And in dance, we don't always have that. can still be stressful, but you don't even know what your metric is exactly sometimes. So it's like, I mean, you have your own personal metrics of what you want to achieve, but you don't always even know if you are achieving what leadership is wanting you to achieve. There can be some like ambiguity there. are Whereas in a job like yours, it's like you have your quota you have to reach.
00:30:56
Speaker
You know if you've reached it or not. There's no no question. Right. There's no gray area. There's no gray area. There definitely is a lot that people who run ballet companies could benefit from having somebody with a more business-based background in leadership positions that have ideas and have different ways that they can grow their company.
00:31:21
Speaker
Make it more profitable at the end of the day. That shouldn't be your probably your your primary concern as a director of a company, but it needs to be sustainable. Yes, and I think as dancers, most of us have never existed in this kind of environment, which is why I'm always so interested in what you do. And I'm always so fascinated by your job and how it works because I've really only operated, even though I've been in admin roles within the dance ecosystem. And as you come up through that ecosystem and you've never been in a different role, there's things you just don't know about how other places operate.
00:31:55
Speaker
And so I agree that like having outside people who understand that side of things. I'm always so like curious about what you're doing. Cause I remember I was like, what's this? You taught me what a growth bridge is and all these different things that you use in your work for my business. Because I'm just like, I've never heard of this before, but these are tools that are commonly used.
00:32:15
Speaker
The amount that we never used to talk about work was funny because i was like, I would go and do my science job. It was done. i left it there. i didn't want to talk about it. I didn't care. your Your day was much more interesting to me.
00:32:27
Speaker
But the amount of stuff that now, like you are genuinely interested about, like how my company runs and what we do. And like when you were setting up the Brainy Ballerina, we were taking a look at like action plans and that kind of stuff. And right, I'm fully Danaher business system corporate now. I don't think that's a ah bad thing in in all aspects.
00:32:45
Speaker
Does the mere thought of audition season make your palms start to sweat? Do you feel completely overwhelmed with getting everything together on top of your regular dancing schedule? I've been there and I totally get it.
00:32:58
Speaker
As dancers, we spend hundreds of hours honing our technique and artistry. But when it comes to figuring out how to put together a resume or what to expect in a professional audition, we're often left to figure it out ourselves.
00:33:11
Speaker
That's why I put together the ultimate audition guide. This is your one-stop shop for everything you need to tackle professional company auditions with ease. No more spending hours Googling and trying to piece together a somewhat coherent audition package.
00:33:25
Speaker
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00:33:41
Speaker
It is in this guide. You are ready for this moment. Head to the show notes, grab your copy of the Ultima Audition Guide, and empower yourself with the knowledge to approach audition season like a true professional.
00:33:54
Speaker
We are about
Parenting and Ballet Aspirations
00:33:55
Speaker
to celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary in December. How do you feel that we have supported each other's dreams as our lives have changed?
00:34:06
Speaker
Oh, wow. I mean, from what we talked about earlier, I feel like we did that trade off, right? Was it my dream to be a robot salesperson?
00:34:17
Speaker
No, because like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I didn't even know that this job existed. Right. I didn't know that this product existed. So I can't, I cannot just sit here and say that this is my dream, but my dream has been, and what my goal has been is to provide a nice life for our kids.
00:34:37
Speaker
And like a good, stable upbringing in a nice place. And that's what we're doing. And so I'm very, very thankful for that. And thankful that we did that trade off and say, you know, we'll stay here in Columbia until the time is right for for a new move that can progress a more monetarily lucrative opportunity for our family.
00:34:59
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I think that's one thing that was so interesting to me when we first started dating because I was like – I remember at some point you were kind of considering, what if I go into coaching more full-time? Yeah.
00:35:09
Speaker
yeah Because you still love soccer and you really loved coaching. And there was this thought of like, should I kind of pursue that? And I remember being like, yes, totally. Like if that's what you care about, yeah go do that. But it was also the understanding that that wasn't going to be as lucrative as your current job. And so it was always interesting to me that you were like – My goal and my dream is actually be able to provide for my family.
00:35:32
Speaker
Like that to me is what yeah feels more fulfilling. And I think as an artist and going up the ballet world, that just never really felt like something you could even hope to want. And I don't want to like say that you can't ever have a good living in the dance world. That's not true, but we all know that the arts are chronically underpaid. And so I just never considered that as an option. i and I remember thinking, wow, that's so interesting that like you could desire to make money. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
Well, I do remember that i I was genuinely thinking about just stopping what I was doing and and coaching, like trying to get into like coaching college. Like we were very surrounded in in Columbia by people who coached at the university and we knew everyone very well and was always kind of talking to them about like, maybe I would kind of try to start doing that.
00:36:20
Speaker
But I would have had to start over from basically zero and work my way up, right? Which i wasn't opposed to, but it was just more of the thought of, we can't have two people doing what they actually like to do from work, right? Like, that's preposterous.
00:36:35
Speaker
So, you know. So I got lucky there. So if you if you want to say that I made the sacrifice there, that's fine. I just, i don't know if my if my dad will listen to this. I always grew up with a dad who certainly didn't like what he did.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yeah. but and So I was like, ah you know you can have a job where you enjoy it. That's news to me. So I'm just going to keep doing something that like I just feel like I have to do. Yeah.
00:36:56
Speaker
We have two children now. we have Ollie, who's five, and then we have our daughter Eloise, who's two. And Eloise is really into ballet. She takes her, me and my parent, class once a week, and she loves it. Ollie's taken some ballet. He's dabbled, and he Likes it when he's there, but he's not fully committed. He didn't want to take dance this semester because he's focusing on kindergarten.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yes. Eloise is all in. She wears her tutu everywhere she goes. She does her spins. She loves it From everything you've learned about the ballet world, how would you feel about it if Eloise decided she really wanted to get serious about ballet and pursue a career?
00:37:37
Speaker
It's an interesting thought. Having seen you go through the whole thing and I can see her. I can totally see her doing it. She's two. So let's not get ahead of ourselves. But I have already started the savings bucket to accommodate for that. Hearing you tell stories about like everywhere your dad had to take you and everything you had to do. I mean, it's, it's not a cheap hobby as a youth growing up, right? wait shoes add up Yeah. The point shoes add up. There's travel. There's a lot of places you got to go, right? There's time. yeah There's time involved in it too. But if she would really love to do ballet and really continue to enjoy it as she gets older, then I just want my kids to do what they want to do and things that they enjoy.
00:38:21
Speaker
If she gets the chance to experience a similar experience that you had, wouldn't you want that for her? Of course. But I think it's a little bit loaded because I know. Of course. you You know all the skeletons.
00:38:33
Speaker
ah And I know how beautiful of a career it is and I wouldn't change anything. And obviously I'm still obsessed with ballet. I have a ballet podcast. Like I'm obsessed with everything about it and I never want to work in any other industry. So yeah, I get it And at the same time, you know, I do know how things can be. And so I think as,
00:38:51
Speaker
apparent, you know, it's natural to feel protective, especially about something that you understand. Because I think anything you pursue is going to have positives and negatives, but a lot of things I don't know anything about.
00:39:01
Speaker
So I wouldn't really know what to look out for. So I guess in that way, it could be a positive because I know what to be aware of and what ways to prepare her for what might come. like I would love it. And I'd also be terrified.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, because you you want to protect your kids all the time. And you know that if she chose to go that way, she's going to get hurt physically and emotionally at some point.
00:39:25
Speaker
And you never want that to happen to her. But is the joy that she's going to get from it, like you did, going to outweigh all that? And hopefully that that is the case. She's still two and a half.
00:39:36
Speaker
you know We don't know. she could She could do anything. She could do anything. But you and your ballet friends constantly pointing at her feet and telling her she's a prodigy is not helping the case.
00:39:49
Speaker
She does have great feet. She got great feet. She got great feet. She really, yeah, she is a natural, but. Yeah. We'll come back. We'll do another episode in 15 years and see where she's at. See if the update is. See if that tooth ever grew in.
00:40:00
Speaker
She's just missing that tooth. Yeah, she did fall down and had to get a tooth pulled. So that's pretty common for dancers because we have that clumsiness outside of the studio factor too. so Yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker
Oh, for sure. I've seen you both walk just directly into stationary objects. so Because we're both hypermobile, we both don't have any sense of spatial awareness of what's around us.
00:40:22
Speaker
Yeah. We're human Roombas. Basically, yeah. Basically. I would expect you to have more experience, but her walking face first into a wall, is still she's still learning. She's still mapping the floor. Okay, what's one lesson that you think dancers live by that you think everyone else, you know, who's not a dancer in your sphere of life maybe could benefit from?
00:40:44
Speaker
I would say that how determined you are, that was something that I was always like really impressed by and attracted to from early on was like your determination to do something and to get something done and to learn something.
00:40:59
Speaker
I feel like always stemmed from that dance background. So determination and and hard work and focus and those kind of things. And just how cool it is to be able to go on stage and just express something with moving your body.
00:41:14
Speaker
I feel like that's such a rare, that's a rare thing. And that's the coolest thing. Normal people like us just walking around with no artistic ability don't get to do that. and
Surprising Moments and Favorite Performances
00:41:23
Speaker
And just being able to go on there and moving your body to a rhythm in the exact way that you're meaning to do it and make people in the audience feel something from that is such a cool thing.
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, i have some audience questions for you. Oh, gosh. The first one is, how did you perfect perfect your front flip? How did I perfect it? yeah yeah It's a front handspring still, but I love that all your friends still call it a front flip. So I get credit for being able I think she said backflip. She always calls it a backflip. And actually, I'm like, Nikki, I never, i can't go backwards.
00:41:58
Speaker
I can't go backwards. I perfected it by when I was younger, i would just like see people. I probably just saw people like doing gymnastics and thought that was cool, but never was in gymnastics.
00:42:09
Speaker
And I remember being around 10 years old at Borden park in Rochester, Michigan, and just like being with some friends. I don't even know what we were there for. Was it the fireworks?
00:42:20
Speaker
Was it somebody yeah like somebody had a soccer game who knows, but I remember, seeing a friend do a front handspring and trying to replicate it too. And I jammed eight of my fingers. No joke. Like I, like I ah came home and my mom was just like, what happened to you? And I had to, I had to put ice like, I i had like,
00:42:40
Speaker
Four fingers on each hand, basically everything but my thumbs, completely unusable because I jammed them into the ground and bent them the wrong way. So sometimes when you do something like that for the first time and you and you get hurt, you don't really want to try it again. But I was very determined to try to figure it out. So, yeah, I think just practice from early on after a quick setback.
00:43:01
Speaker
We must have been married for two years before I even knew that you could do a front handspring because you did it at one of our fundraisers. Yeah. We had every year a big fall fundraiser.
00:43:13
Speaker
And typically it was at somebody's house. But for whatever reason, this year we were doing it at the Blue Note, which was a really cool concert venue in Columbia. ended up being not very well attended as far as a fundraiser goes.
00:43:25
Speaker
But it was a super fun, like, cast party, basically, because all the dancers and our... significant others were there and we just had a really great dance party essentially for like three hours straight and I remember us being in like a dance circle and you just did a front flip and then you ran away and everyone goes did you know Steve could do that and I was like literally I had no idea he could do a front flip and we've been married for two years yeah Well, that's why i always called myself a social dancer.
00:43:50
Speaker
I ran away because I had to go to the bathroom. I always like at a wedding or at an event like that when a dance circle busts out. And the only thing I know how to do is like very violent, extreme moves. So you've seen me just like go in and and spin on my head and pretend like I know how to break dance.
00:44:07
Speaker
or just like something that's more in the physical comedy realm. So I thought there will be eyeballs on this from the professional dancers. And I'm always trying to gain respect with the professional dancers.
00:44:19
Speaker
And so I thought this is something that probably they won't try. So let me just go ahead and do it. but So that was that. Yeah. I think maybe our kids get their performance quality from you. You are a natural performer. and Yeah.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah. I guess you're right. I guess you're right. Okay, next question. What is your favorite role that you've seen me dance? Oh, yeah, that's a good one.
00:44:44
Speaker
Favorite individual role. I mean, it was always cool when you were Alice in Alice in Wonderland. I feel like there was a few just individual pieces that I always really enjoyed. I'll say like one of my favorite shows as a whole was the Carmina one. That one was so cool.
00:45:00
Speaker
That was everybody together, right? And with the choir and everything. So that was like such a unique one and it was packed. So many people came to that. So I always remember that one fondly as just like, what a great experience it was always so fun watching you be alice in alice in wonderland my parents would come and they would just brag like forever about it like yeah her daughter-in-law she's she's alice she's alice you know so like it was that was always like i always got more of a kick out of it from that side because it was like yeah funny to see them they love to brag about their kids and so now they were like getting to brag about you too in that in that sense so it was always fun to see
00:45:37
Speaker
I know. And your dad always asked me to sign his tickets. And then at our rehearsal dinner, he brought all the tickets out and he was just, he was a mess. He was crying. My dad's
Advice for Partners of Dancers
00:45:47
Speaker
thing is crying in public at those specific events. And so everyone's just like, um yeah, but that was one of the early ones that was before, you know, like we were the first ones in our families to get married. So now we've, you know, we've, we've seen it a couple times.
00:46:00
Speaker
It was really sweet. Last question. If you could give one piece of advice to of partner of a dancer who's not a dancer, what would it be? Piece of advice to a partner of a dancer who's not a dancer, a regular old normal person, human being. muggle.
00:46:17
Speaker
A muggle, if you will. I like that a lot. I would say if you get to be tangentially affiliated with a ballet company or somebody who is doing this for a profession and you get a chance to in some way help facilitate that as their career for any period of time, do it. It's the coolest thing to get to be a part of.
00:46:45
Speaker
you know If it's something that you can obviously make work between the two of you and and you can help them continue and and elongate their career for as long as they can do it because it's one of the most unique things that you can possibly be a part of.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for doing this today. i love you. I love you, babe. That's it. That's it. Oh man. Any other stories you wanted to tell? I could probably do like five to 10 more minutes. What do you got?
00:47:11
Speaker
I'm just joking. I'm just joking. Let's go for a walk. Let's go outside. Let's go outside. It's nice out. Our kids aren't here. Bye. Let's do it. Bye.
00:47:23
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:47:35
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:47:49
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.