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82. The Birthday Episode: Caitlin Tells All
25 Plays1 hour ago
In this special birthday episode of The Brainy Ballerina Podcast, we’re flipping the script! To celebrate my 38th birthday, my dear friend Carrie Euker steps in as guest host and I gave her free rein to ask me anything she wants.
From career reflections, personal stories, Nutcracker nostalgia and the advice I wish every dancer knew, this episode offers an honest, uplifting look behind the scenes of my dance journey.
Key Points in this Episode:
- Navigating injuries and learning to be honest with your body
- The teachers who shaped my transition from student to professional
- My dream Nutcracker role (and my very first one)
- The dancers I would hire for my “dream company”
- The key piece of advice I want every dancer to know
Links and Resources:
Get 10% off registration for Étoile Dance Competition with code BRAINY10.
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
1-1 CAREER MENTORING: book your complimentary career call
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Caitlin's Journey
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor, and this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer.
00:00:28
Speaker
Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Special Birthday Episode with Carrie Euchre
00:00:38
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and today we are doing something a little bit different. When this episode airs, December 22nd, when you're listening to it, will be my 38th birthday, and I wanted to do something kind of fun for my birthday episode. So I asked my good friend, Carrie Euchre, to come and sort of flip the script today and interview me, and I told her she could ask me anything she wants,
00:01:07
Speaker
Silly, fun, personal, serious, whatever she feels like asking
Artistry in Dance Competitions
00:01:12
Speaker
me. But before we get into it, I want to give a huge shout out to this episode's sponsor, Etol Dance Competition.
00:01:19
Speaker
Dance competition season is upon us, and if you're looking for a competition that's about artistry, performance, and growth, not just the trophy, then you need to check out Etol Dance Competition.
00:01:31
Speaker
A Toile is a concert dance competition open to everyone, including beginners, pre-professionals, and adults with inclusive leveling that makes it possible for anyone to score in the top overalls.
00:01:42
Speaker
And every dancer gets more than just a score. A Toile provides audio and video critiques and performance, technique, choreography, and overall impressions you can truly grow from your experience.
00:01:55
Speaker
Something unique to Etual that I really love is the opportunity for dancers to start the day off right with master classes taught by Etual's esteemed panel of judges, all with professional dance backgrounds and teaching experience.
00:02:10
Speaker
Plus, every event includes a group contemporary performance, which is an amazing opportunity to hone your audition skills and build community with other dancers. I really do believe this competition is something special, and right now,
00:02:25
Speaker
podcast listeners can get 10% off their registration with code BRAINY10. If you're looking for a performance experience that emphasizes artistry, provides real actionable feedback, and celebrates dancers of all levels,
00:02:41
Speaker
Head to atwellcomp.com or find the link in the show notes to see if they're coming to a city near you and register today. Okay, let's get into the
Challenges and Acceptance in Dance
00:02:50
Speaker
episode. i will pass it over to you, Keri, to take over as host for the day.
00:02:55
Speaker
All right. Thanks, Caitlin. I'm excited to take the wheel here. You actually already answered my first question. that was How old are you? 38. Okay, the big three eight. So how are you going to celebrate?
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, we're going to be in Michigan with my family for the holidays. And it's funny, I was just talking to Steve about this the other day, because it's really tricky, you know, being a Christmas baby. Everything's busy, getting kind of overlooked. And I was like, okay, I need to put some things on the calendar. So I actually get to celebrate my birthday. So I'm planning to go to do some kind of spa thing during the day. And then where we're from in Rochester, Michigan, there's this really cool light show downtown. So we're going to the kids there and we're going to show them where we got married because it'll be right around our anniversary. We got married December 18th. So we're going to go show them where we got married, downtown Rochester. Then we're going to stay the night at that hotel to celebrate anniversary. So actually a pretty fun event.
00:03:55
Speaker
day. Awesome. That sounds pretty special. I'm sure they'll like that. They're not old enough to be totally embarrassed by their parents and where they got married, but they'll get there. Exactly. They'll still think it's cool. So we're trying to squeeze it in before they, yeah, before they're over us. Before they get cringed out by it. Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
Awesome. them Okay. So let's get going then. Let's get to the good stuff, the Caitlin Tells All stuff. So given all of your accomplishments and credentials and experience, what What do you think was your biggest failure in your career or in your training? And what did you learn from it? And how did you bounce back?
00:04:37
Speaker
o but We're just getting right to it, aren't we? Yeah. Whoa. Okay. well That is a tough one. I think that one thing that i really struggled to deal with in my career was injury and almost just the reality of it.
00:04:53
Speaker
And you've experienced this with me. You know, I remember the one of the big ones at Missouri Contemporary Ballet is when I tore my calf and i just like couldn't admit that I wasn't going dance because I was so scared to say I couldn't do it. I didn't feel like I had an out. I was like, I'm going to have to push through.
00:05:09
Speaker
And like my brain couldn't catch up to my body to say, no, you're like physically not going to be able to do this. And you're also making it harder for everyone else by not just admitting that because now everyone else has to scramble to learn your part or.
00:05:24
Speaker
to put together different spacing or whatever. I remember we had to like rent a studio so everyone could like change around the choreography and all the things we were trying to do. And if I had just been like honest and been able to say, i know I can't do this, it would have been a little bit smoother. and that's something I've always struggled
Reflections on Early Professional Seasons
00:05:40
Speaker
with throughout my career is just the reality that as a dancer, sometimes the show can't go on for you.
00:05:48
Speaker
going to go on for someone else and someone's going to go into your part and that's going to happen. But if you don't take ownership of it, then it's going to make life harder for everyone else. So I'd say my biggest failures, I guess, were just unwillingness to accept reality in those situations. And I really had to learn how to admit when it just was not going to be possible.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, I certainly don't remember it like that. you I don't think it was like a huge ordeal for us to re-space. I actually did one of your parts. I remember. on mar yeah I mean, and obviously, you guys are pros. It's not like that's out of your realm of things you're able to do quickly. But I mean, it was the night before the show that I finally said, okay, I can't go on.
00:06:34
Speaker
Like at that point, I was still kind of like we had a backup plan, but I was still had this hope in my heart that I was going to do it. And I that was finally when I had to say, like, it's not going to happen. Yeah, that's tough. And I remember being in similar situations like that. And one time in particular, I was, I had been really sick. It might have even been that same season. And i remember Karen, our director just said, no, you're not going on stage. And so that, that almost made it easier when she made the call yeah as opposed to like, it's tough because the director doesn't know your body, what you're feeling, like how bad this or that is. And when it's more of a clear line to be drawn, it's almost easier than should I push that? through or should i rest? What should I do? Yes. And that was the really tough part too, because I remember for that particular injury, and it was such a weird time because we had gone on layoff for like a whole month, come back for three days, and that we were going on tour to New York. So it was a really quick turnaround. And I tore my calf and I remember going to meet up with one of our
00:07:34
Speaker
doctors at the orthopedic institutes, he had kind of said like, it's not going to get worse if you dance on it. You could dance through it. It's not going to make it worse as long as you can actually dance. And so in my dancer brain, I said, okay, well, I have to do it.
00:07:48
Speaker
like and I could do it. He said, I can do it Not a clear line drawn. Yeah. yeah so You're like, no, you shouldn't even be walking on this. Right. And that's what i yes. And that's kind of the thing I think, I know our doctors always really want us.
00:08:02
Speaker
They know we want to dance too. And so we're all kind of trying to toe this line of like, I really want to do this, but should I do this and what can happen? And really tricky. But I remember that situation too. And you were really sick because I got to go in for you and twisted. Yeah. And I got to be the spinner. And that was one of my favorite parts. That was probably the first time I got to do like more of a featured role.
00:08:22
Speaker
It was really stinky that you were sick and you didn't get to do it. But for me, I was like, oh, this is really exciting. I get to have this chance to go on stage. I was an apprentice. So it was like, OK, here's my chance to kind of prove myself.
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah. So that was pretty cool. Yeah. but But again, an easier decision when the line was thrown for me. Yes. Yep. But still hard to – it's always hard to watch somebody else do your part when you're injured or sick or whatever. And you're like, oh, man, I'm missing out. I'm missing stage time. so You always feel that way yeah no matter what. And it's really hard to come to terms the fact that you're going to miss something at some point right in your career. But if you don't take the time when you need to, your career is going to be much shorter because you're not going to be able to recover. so Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, take it from us,
Contemporary vs Classical Dance
00:09:10
Speaker
yeah old dancers. You gotta got to do that when you need to.
00:09:15
Speaker
Okay. Next question. Who was your most influential teacher? And you can only pick one. my gosh. There are so many. But if you had to pick only one. Okay. Well, I kind of have to cheat a little bit and pick two because they're a package deal.
00:09:34
Speaker
Oh, know what you're going to say. go ahead. But it would probably be, I mean, this is so hard because there's so many teachers that I had growing up that were really foundational, you know, so it's like without them, I would never have gotten to where I was. But at this point in my life and in my career, my very first seasons of professional company, I would say these were the people that were kind of The turning point for me was John Gardner and Amanda Maccaro when I was at Valley Tucson. And you can't separate them. They're both just like a package deal. But it was just the people I needed at that time to bridge that gap for me from student to professional because I was really lost in that world and really struggling. yeah. If I hadn't had them as artistic associates during that period, I don't know that I would have continued in the profession. What I really liked about them and what they showed me was that you can be positive, you can be fun, and you can work hard, and you can enjoy what you're doing, and they can all coexist. And I just loved that mentality of like, this doesn't have to be toxic or, you know, we we can make this a nice experience, and then we're still going to perform even better because we're just enjoying what we're doing and we're lucky to be here. Yeah, that transition from student to professional, it's really like the adolescence of ballet. Like it's ah a strange time. You're trying to figure out exactly what your responsibilities are how you're supposed to conduct yourself as a professional. And it's way different than being a student and kind of being spoon fed and all of that. So i can understand why, especially in that time of your life, they were particularly...
00:11:11
Speaker
influential. I think somebody else on your podcast said the same of them. Maybe, I don't know, those didn't come up a lot. Anyone who crossed paths with them, i think will say that. They are just those people that you you just feel so lucky to have been in their orbit for any period of time. They see every single individual dancer as an individual dancer. Like they don't come into a room and it didn't matter that I was a trainee in the company and there's principal dance dancers. Like I felt that in their eyes, I was just as special and important.
00:11:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. as everyone else. And i really felt seen. They had a
Dance and Family
00:11:47
Speaker
nickname for every single person in the company. They called me Rose because there was two Caitlin. So I was Rose and that was what they always called me. And they just really knew how to draw the best out of every single person. And they could see what you needed when you needed it, how to say it. I don't know what that can be taught, but I really just flourished under their guidance. They sound really intuitive too and just experienced. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. okay Moving on.
00:12:13
Speaker
If you were ready to go in for somebody in the Nutcracker tomorrow, which role would you be dying to do? I think Snow Queen.
00:12:24
Speaker
Oh, okay. I think I don't be Snow Queen. I love snow. And when I was growing up, When I got to be Clara, we didn't do a Snow Cane and Snow Queen Pa. We did Clara and Prince Pa. So I got to do that as a student, and I think it'd be really cool. like I just love that music.
00:12:40
Speaker
I love that whole yeah scene. I just think it'd be really cool to get to revisit it in a slightly different way. but i would... I haven't worn pointe shoes in a while, so. yeah Yeah, like like you could just put your pointe shoes on and like magically do everything you could do. Oh my gosh, that'd be amazing. Along those lines, what was your first role you ever did in the Nutcracker? I was a maid in Mother Ginger. We had maids and bakers in our version. Okay. so i was a maiden i was probably like twelve
00:13:12
Speaker
okay my first nutcracker because eleven or twelve because i started dancing when i was ten and my school did nutcracker every other year so the first year i started dancing was a nutcracker year and i didn't do it like we didn't even know that it existed Uh-huh. We were so uneducated on this whole thing. My family, we didn't understand what the Nutcracker even was or like that you could audition for. it Or maybe my parents knew and I just didn't know. And they just decided like, we just started this two months ago. We're not going to audition for a giant production. Like, I don't really know the lore there, but I remember being at a class, like the week of the for performance was and I was the only one in the class. And I was like, where is everyone? And my teacher was like, they're in the Nutcracker.
00:13:48
Speaker
Like I didn't know it was happening. So I didn't do it. And then the next year an off year. We did Sleeping Beauty. kind then the year after we did Nutcracker again and I got to be a maiden mother ginger. So I was like 12 years old and came up from under the skirt. And that was my first, my first role. Nice. Which ballet heroine or hero do you most identify with? None.
00:14:13
Speaker
yes but Hmm. I don't know. so lot of characters to go through. I'm like cycling through the whole encyclopedia of different characters.
00:14:26
Speaker
I got nothing, Carrie. I have literally nothing. I don't know. but i feel like that's why I kind of gravitated toward like contemporary ballet because I just didn't really like ever feel like I super connected with the classical ballet characters because it's like the fairy tale characters and there's, you know, it wasn't necessarily very feminist in a lot of the approaches, you know, so it's like I don't connect with them.
00:14:46
Speaker
You may be connecting more with like one of the Midsummer Night's dream characters. Oh, yes. Like low key mischievous. And yes, I do see that. I do see that. I could definitely see myself being one of the lovers. Yeah. Because they're just like a fun. and actually, i think it'd be really fun to be Puck.
00:15:03
Speaker
Or Puck. Yeah. i was gonna say Puck. It would be a fun one actually. Yeah. I think that'd be really fun. Do you want your kids to pursue dance as a hobby or a career at all?
00:15:17
Speaker
Why or why not? i am kind of indifferent. I think that they would both really thrive if they wanted to. You just kind of can see it in them. They have that like natural performer.
00:15:29
Speaker
They're musical. They love to dance. I think that they would do really well. I always worry, of course, because we all know some of the things. And I feel like as much as I know some of the things to look out for or things to kind of guide them through or warn them about, you also, when you're a teenager or young adult, like we are and we're starting a ballet career, you don't listen to your parents.
00:15:55
Speaker
So even if I did know the things to tell them, they would be like, you don't know what you're talking about, mom. True. I feel like that would be really tricky. But of course, everything I do is ballet centered. So I mean, I would never want them to not have that. If that's what they're passionate about, I would love it.
00:16:10
Speaker
But of course, I would worry because as a parent, you just want your kids to be happy and healthy. And we know it can be tough sometimes. So yeah it's double edged. But I think as long as I could tell that they were in a healthy place with it, I would love it.
00:16:24
Speaker
Right. And I think there are a lot of life lessons to be learned in the studio without having to pursue dance as something serious. Yeah. I think whether you do it, yeah, growing up or then you decide to pursue a career or you just do it and then do something totally different, I think exactly right. You're still going to learn a lot of lessons. You're going to carry that with you. And
Career Reflections and Life Lessons
00:16:44
Speaker
I am very grateful for those things that I learned as a dancer. And I'm grateful for that time of my life and the friends I had. And I think about, you know, the rehearsals and the performances and the backstage shenanigans and all that kind of stuff. Those are some great memories. So I would love for them to have something like that, whether it's a sport or some kind of community like that, where you just feel like you're part of something bigger. I think that's the most important thing.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. If you could start your dream company with unlimited funding, oh what dancers would you hire? oh my gosh.
00:17:16
Speaker
ah Like you could steal them all from ABT or whatever. Right. Who would you pick? I mean, Tyler Pack, Mary Anilia, Roberto Boll.
00:17:28
Speaker
I'd say all these names, Ron. ah Who else? Oh my gosh. Joseph Sissons with the Royal Ballet. oh He's really stunning. i mean, there's so many. I could probably, this could hour-long podcast of me naming all the beautiful dancers that I can think of, but those would be like my first.
00:17:46
Speaker
My first draft How would you ever figure out who would do the lead? You just had to do Midsommars and they can all just be the leads all the time.
00:18:00
Speaker
Okay. I do have one more question, but before I ask that one, is there anything you're dying for me to ask you? Like, come on, ask this one. I don't think so.
00:18:11
Speaker
no I have put zero thought into this. This is like all yours. yeah Well, yeah, I've totally, I've put you on the spot here a few times.
00:18:22
Speaker
ah None of them were too super juicy, but no what do you think was your biggest failure one? That was probably the deepest one I asked. Deepest one, yeah. Yeah, that's always a little hard to reflect on. especially It is. but And I also think like, I don't know how to say this properly, but I don't think that I've like failed a lot in the sense that I don't perceive it as a failure. Like I failed a lot.
00:18:45
Speaker
But it never feels like that was that. It's always like, okay, well, that happened and I learned from it, but that was a stage in my life. Yeah. So yeah, there's lots of things that I would do differently in retrospect, but if I hadn't done them that way at the time, then I wouldn't have learned that lesson. So it doesn't really feel like a failure in that sense. It's just like, you know, you're young and stupid and you don't know what you don't know yet. So you have to just kind of go through all this to figure it out. Everything that I do with the Brainy Ballerina and everything we're sharing is so, so valuable for dancers to help kind of learn these lessons. And at the same time, there's just something to be said for having to just live through it and experience it on your own to really figure out the things you need to know. Because right until you've actually been through it you might sort of be like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But it doesn't quite resonate. Right. And maybe instead of calling them failures, it would be better to say something like, things I would have done differently. Yeah. know lot those yeah I have a lot of those. Yeah, for sure. There's so many things I would do differently. But again, like a long list. for everyone and Yeah. And I'm one of those people who's really like invested in like the sliding door theory of one different choice, changing your entire life kind of thing. Like I'm really fascinated by that. idea. So I always just think like, well, if I had done that differently, would I be where I am now? Would I have met my husband? Would I have my kids? Would I be doing my business? Like every single thing
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:20:08
Speaker
that I think about, i just have to remind myself like that happened the way it was supposed to happen for some reason beyond my understanding. And I just can kind of let it go and be like, okay, with those mistakes and failures and yeah and appreciate where I'm at now because my life could be totally different.
00:20:27
Speaker
Right. Things somehow happen for a reason. Okay. Last question. you can probably say it with me, but what one piece of advice would you give to aspiring dancers? I knew you were going to ask me that. Yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
Taste my own medicine. yeah I would say my sort of go-to advice that I really believe is that there's no one right way to pursue a professional dance career. And I think when you're young, you really believe that if you don't,
00:20:58
Speaker
move away from home at a certain age, get a traineeship at a certain age, move through the ranks, all those things, you failed. And I think we are both products of that idea that like there's many different ways to do this career. And we both chose the college route, which was, you know, for us as people in our late 30s, early 40s, like as we're approaching that age, like that was kind of unheard of. and Not unheard of, but it was more rare at our stage. And so people kind of discouraged that. me from going to college for dance and thought that was a mistake, but I thought it was the right path for me. And and it still worked out, right? So that's something that's really important that I want dancers to know is that you can go about it a different way. And the way that's right for you isn't going the same as somebody else. And that's okay. So don't feel pressured into doing something that you're not ready to do.
00:21:48
Speaker
And just be really honest with yourself if it's not right for you or if you're scared. Right. Because sometimes it's like that fear will hold us back and maybe we just have to try it and see.
00:22:00
Speaker
and sometimes you can really definitively say that's just not for me. So I think it's being honest with yourself about where it's coming from. And then I also would say how important it is to know that you can create something that you want to exist. Again, I think we're both living in that space now where we both saw a gap in the dance world that we wanted to fill and we created something out of thin air. i mean, you created an entire dance competition. I created a company for mentoring dancers. Like we just saw something that we're like, I wish this...
00:22:31
Speaker
was around and then realized, why don't I just do it? So I think it's important for dancers to know all these things on your wishlist or things that you want to happen. You could be the person that does that. you don't have to wait for somebody else to do it and give you the opportunity. So
Episode Conclusion and Call to Action
00:22:45
Speaker
you should go for it.
00:22:46
Speaker
Make it happen. Yeah. Love that. Well, thank you for letting me take the wheel today. I loved interviewing you and have a great birthday.
00:22:58
Speaker
Thanks, Keri. Those are some great questions. You stumped me on a few of those. But that was great. Thank you so much for taking the time and and coming on the other side of the table. How did you feel about being on that side?
00:23:11
Speaker
Of course. I kind of like it Yeah, walk you're natural. Maybe start a podcast. I think you should. You're a natural.
00:23:19
Speaker
Thank you, Keri. Keri, thanks for having me. Happy birthday.
00:23:26
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:23:38
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your ratings help others discover the show too.
00:23:52
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.