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How to Connect Employee Engagement and Employee Wellbeing – a conversation with Richard Ellis
0 Playsin 8 hours
Richard Ellis describes the connection between employee wellbeing and employee engagement
Richard Ellis is a New Zealand based corporate health coach who works with businesses of all kinds to impact their bottom-line profitability by connecting employee health and wellbeing to employee engagement.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Richard explains to host Michael Millward the work of a health coach.
They discuss how the medical health care industry is focused on treating acute illnesses, the social care system on chronic conditions once they have taken hold, and health coaches focus on preventing all kinds of health problems.
A fence at the top of the cliff instead of an ambulance at the bottom.
Richard explains how our health, good or bad is a consequence of the decisions we make about every aspect of our lives. His role is to provide the information so that people can make informed choices.
This often leads to sustainable behaviour change, that impacts work performance, enhances employee engagement, improves employee productivity, and increases profits.
This is the podcast to listen to when you have to build a business case for investment in health and wellbeing.
Discover more about Richard and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Independent Minds'
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. it's The all-in-one podcasting platform that makes every stage of the podcast production process so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, use the link to zencastr.com that's in the description. There's a built-in discount.
Improving Employee Engagement through Health Initiatives
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm your host Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. Today Richard Ellis from Rich Ellis Coaching in New Zealand is going to be explaining how companies can improve employee engagement and productivity through focused health and well-being initiatives.
00:00:57
Speaker
I've never been to New Zealand. If I do go, i will make my travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club. because that is where I get trade prices on trains, flights and hotels and all sorts of other travel related purchases.
Richard Ellis's Transition to Health and Fitness
00:01:10
Speaker
You can do the same thing by using the link in the description which has a built-in discount. Now that I've paid the rent, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:26
Speaker
Very importantly, on the independent minds, we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Hello, Rich. Hi, Michael. Great to be here.
00:01:38
Speaker
Thank you very much. I know that you've stayed up very late in New Zealand because it's almost tomorrow in New Zealand, isn't it? ah we're We're getting that way. i do appreciate you having this conversation with me there. Thank you very much.
00:01:50
Speaker
So how did you get involved in the health and well-being industry? Good question. So at a certain point in my career, i realized that i didn't want to keep doing what I was doing for the rest of my life.
Role of a Health Coach in Preventive Healthcare
00:02:02
Speaker
and I got into the health and fitness industry and built a personal training business and still still see clients that want to to move better. But I also so moved into health coaching and became a registered health coach more recently.
00:02:17
Speaker
The journey that I went on for that education was extensive and so I kind of got to a point where I thought, well, How can I find a bigger audience? Who do I want to talk to? Who do I want to share this information with so that I can have an impact on the world? And that's what led me to working with corporates because well-leveraged time, I'm able to present to a bigger audience, have a bigger impact. And that's kind of how I got into into what I'm doing with the health coaching and the the corporate work.
00:02:45
Speaker
Health coaching is not really a job title that I've heard before. What is a health coach? I think it's a growing field. We realise that the health system is broken. I know the yeah UK has similar challenges with the the NHS. The training that the medical fraternity have has served them well for a long time and still does for acute conditions. But when you talk about chronic conditions... It's not the training that GPs have, for example, isn't set up to address chronic conditions.
00:03:16
Speaker
And that's where the health coach
Taking Charge of Personal Health
00:03:18
Speaker
comes in. So the role of a health coach is to do advise and support people in terms of lifestyle medicine so that they prevent those chronic conditions ever occurring. So it's more of ah a preventative role. So fence at the top of the cliff, as opposed to ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. And it it really is a growing field. And, you know, there are there are different schools of of training in this field, and there are different bodies to register with. But it's something that is is on the rise. And I think people are seeing that if they don't take their health into their own hands, that's the pathway that they need to follow, as opposed to relying on a broken medical system that will support them when it's probably
Impact of Food Industry on Health
00:03:57
Speaker
too late. Interesting because one of the first episodes of our health and wellbeing podcast fit for my age, was about exactly this. The way to have an efficient health service, whether you call it National Health Service or private, whatever it is called, doesn't really matter. but the way to make it most effective is not to be in a position to actually need to use it. yeah So if we can take a positive aspect of our health and understand our health and understand how our bodies work and how different we are to other people, as well as how similar we are, and take positive steps to make sure that we never actually need to see
00:04:31
Speaker
a doctor because we're ill. We see a doctor or GP because we are monitoring our health. We are having tests to make sure that we're not developing anything. We will actually end up a lot healthier. But a lot of our systems seem to be designed to make us unhealthy.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah. and And not just the medical system. You know, we're talking about the food manufacturing system as well, which is a a behemoth in terms of its impact and what it does. And, you know, they're not out there to make us well.
Supporting Behavior Change through Health Coaching
00:04:59
Speaker
<unk> They're out there to make money. But we have our choices to make. Indeed. It's about making sure that we can have, I suppose, informed choices about what it is that we decide to do. There is nothing wrong... necessarily with any of the foods that are available as long as you have a balanced diet correct and it's understanding that yeah there are treats and there are things that we don't eat on a regular basis but we have every so often we're all guilty every so often i think of realizing that yeah it was good the devil made me buy it the devil made me eat it but um yeah maybe i need to do something a little bit more sensible tomorrow You're absolutely right. And I think most people know that.
00:05:40
Speaker
But it's the that doesn't necessarily follow in terms of activity or action. Yes, that again, is where the health coach comes in, right? Because they hold the hand of the person that wants the behavior change, but needs a the accountability and probably a little bit more knowledge on how to
Health Coaching in Corporate Settings
00:05:56
Speaker
do that effectively. So it sticks. Yes.
00:05:58
Speaker
And it's a process, right? You know, our brains are wired to save energy and it will take the the easy route, the easy path, the the quick, short satisfaction as opposed to the long-term, delayed satisfaction. And so that's where my role comes in, supporting people on that journey.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, we want it now. And I suppose as well that it's putting the difficult decisions into a context that gives them an explanation as well. The health coach concept, I think, is really important. And I'm pleased that it's it's what we're talking about. But you do it within...
00:06:33
Speaker
a corporate type environment rather than an individual environment. How does that, how did that come about? Looking for that larger audience, wanting to have more of an impact. And so that was the natural conclusion I came to is, well, surely there are organizations, you know, you're talking about a large group of people in one place. as opposed to having to find lots of individual clients and persuading that organization that yeah know they needed to invest in the well-being of their their team.
00:07:00
Speaker
And if I can get that argument over, then that's that's the beginning of my engagement. And then we establish what the needs are of the organization, draw up a plan, and then execute that plan over ideally 12 months. So there's ah a long enough period of time for that behavior change to kick in.
Creating Corporate Health Programs
00:07:17
Speaker
and And for the return on investment to be realized, you see the behavior change, the culture change, but you also see the benefits financially to the the bottom line of the organization, because those behavior changes, the the retention, the reduced thickness, the improvement in productivity, those all start to to make a difference. Okay. Talk me through a situation where that has all sort of happened and because everything that you've said there sounds fantastic and I can see how any organization, large or small, would benefit from your reduced absence or improved employee retention, increased productivity, and the culture change, the behavior change, all those sorts things. I know if you've got a poor diet, you're more likely to be in a bad mood. yep So yeah there's also, when you've mentioned behavior change as well, but um talk me through how the process works.
00:08:09
Speaker
Sure, yes. Do you normally get contacted by employers or do you have to like start the discussion with the employers yourself? Yeah, yeah probably a combination of both. Sometimes ah there'll be an introduction or a referral, and I'll be able to start that conversation straight away, as opposed to knocking on a door and asking to come in. So it's usually one or the other. And and so how that occurs over time, let's assume the program is running.
00:08:36
Speaker
Typically, it will be a mixture of education and coaching. So When I say education, that probably looks like a workshop on a particular topic or theme. And over the course of the workshop,
00:08:50
Speaker
I'm imparting knowledge. I'm getting people to practice little things that are going to help contribute to their learning so that they walk away with things embedded. And then the follow-up to that is the coaching. So I'll encourage those who participated to then sign up and join me in some group coaching. This can be in person or online.
00:09:08
Speaker
And the group coaching is then a way of embedding the learning from that last education session. So they can clarify content. And then it's a matter of
Demonstrating ROI in Health Initiatives
00:09:18
Speaker
me drilling down with them individually and saying right as a result of everything you've learned what are the things that you think are practically achievable in terms of behavior change what could you commit to and then they'll they'll commit to whatever they they say they'll commit to and my job is to follow up and make sure that they're staying on on track with that commitment and so over time
00:09:41
Speaker
that behavior change starts to make make a difference both to them individually, but to them as a group. What sort of things are you covering in the education section of the program? Again, it depends what they need. How do you identify yeah what an organization needs? Sure. And that starts at the beginning. So the very first step in the process is surveying and meeting with with people. So in in their groups or teams or however, and then doing a general online survey to gra gather lots of information electronically as well. So putting those together then gives me a bit of a recipe and I can see the priorities for the organization. Right. And then from there, it's a matter of, I think this is number one, number two, number three, that that looks like the first three months to me. What do you think? And obviously getting some buy-in so that we've got an agreed timetable, if you like. Yeah, the information that you're analysing, because at the end of the day, you've got to demonstrate the return on the investment as well. What sort of information are you gathering about the organisation so that in 12 months' time, you can show a return on the investment? Good question. Yeah. And so the survey information is obviously all very subjective. The objective data is is interrogating ah HR systems, payroll systems to try and identify what the current headcount is, what the current sickness levels are, what the current turnover is in terms of employees, so number of people leaving the organization.
00:11:05
Speaker
Those are some of the sort of the key areas that we look at so that we can come back to those and interrogate that data again in 12 months' time. And go, right, how have we gone? And then also redoing the survey work so that we can compare the subjective data as well. And those together then give us good amount of information to say, right, this has worked really well, okay, or averagely, wherever it may sit, we
Balancing Work and Health
00:11:30
Speaker
can see the results. At the start, you're looking at what the how the organization is performing from ah an ah HR ah perspective in terms of absence levels, the types of absences that people are having, the length of absences, what people call in sick about.
00:11:47
Speaker
And then things like the productivity of the organization, how much how much does it take to actually produce the goods and and quality standards? How much of what the organization produces is actually to the required standard and how much is below the required standard? And then putting all of that into a mix to identify what it is that will help improve those statistics. So yeah um that then becomes in 12 months time, the way of assessing the return on the investment. That's right. so
00:12:18
Speaker
I suppose the straightforward one is then absence, but there's the presenteeism. I'm thinking that like with my ah h r professional hat on, all the things that you can measure inside an organization about employees and volunteers and workers in general that give an indication of how engaged those people are and how productive they are and how then being healthier having a healthier lifestyle might actually improve their ability to do more at work without actually necessarily feeling as if they're working harder or they're working. It's almost like a ah mindset shift, I suppose, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm very conscious that I don't want to burden people with more.
00:13:03
Speaker
What I want to do is change what's already happening, making the tweaks along the way. So, There's no extra time required. All it is is a slight change in the way things are going and where things are occurring. And if I sell it like that, then people can will buy into it. I'm more likely to buy into it and realize that they don't have to commit more time other than some of the the education and the coaching in terms of their day to day. It's actually all about just tweaking what already happens as opposed to completely overhauling the way they do things. And and I think that's a critical part to it. Yes. The way in which you're describing it makes me think that some of the changes are actually quite subconscious. Yes. You're providing the information for people to almost be able to make their own decisions about what information they want to take on board yeah yeah and what changes they want to make. But even understanding, I've been doing these ah conversations about health and well-being and efficiencies at work, and I understand that a decent night's sleep
00:14:06
Speaker
will mean that you'll you'll wake up different. So if you've sort
Empowering Personal Health Management
00:14:09
Speaker
of crammed in a few hours because you've been out partying or you've got so many things that you need to organize that you've just, oh, I should have gone to bed by now. Yeah, absolutely right. Managing sleep is as important as managing your waking activities as well. And the two are very much connected. Absolutely. And I think we still undervalue the power of sleep. It's it's ah it's a yeah an realized or untapped potential. you know there is there is There is so much power in having a good night's sleep. And and I think you know the the harder and the faster that people tend to work, and the more connected they are to
00:14:45
Speaker
So digital devices makes that that change more difficult. you know we're We're stimulating our brain so much more than we were 10, 20, 30 years ago um that people are complaining that, well, how do I switch my brain off? How do I wind down? Because that's the bit I talk about the most. the the setup for a good night's sleep is to have a wind down routine, not just hope that you're going to have a good night's sleep.
00:15:09
Speaker
because, um you know, a good productive day starts with that starts the night before and that good night's sleep, as you say. When you say a wind down routine, it makes me think about you have a toddler who has bedtime. Yeah.
00:15:24
Speaker
But you go through a routine that sort of prepares them for that situation. You are now going to go to bed and you are now going to go to sleep sort of situation. Doesn't always work. No. Doesn't always work.
00:15:36
Speaker
But you have a routine for them. And then somehow as we get older, we abandon or we, we don't have the same routines. So we're not in the same constructive way of managing sleep. But it sounds as if what you're talking about as a health coach is that it's not about telling people what to do. It's about providing them with the education and then enabling them to make the decisions based on the information that they have.
Organizational Culture and Health Management
00:16:04
Speaker
about what it is that they want to do going forward. Because one of the big issues, I think, is that we don't get the information about our health no until something has gone wrong with our health, which is why too many people die of things which could have been cured if they had been aware of the early stage symptoms or had managed their health a lot better. And what you're doing, I suppose, is putting that education into the context of making people more productive at work, which makes them more employable. i hate using the expression guaranteeing long-term employment, but does help to make long-term employment more secure because you're working in a more productive environment. Absolutely. And and you you are absolutely right. that is That is very much the case in terms of the role of the health coach. My job isn't to tell people what to do. It's to ask them how they can take one step in the right direction on whatever the topic is we're talking about, because they are the expert of their lives, not me. My job is to ask the right question so that we head down a path towards whatever it is they see as what they look what what success looks like to them.
00:17:16
Speaker
And so it's a a facilitation role almost. you know you're You're making sure that they're heading in the right direction the fact that and and keeping them moving in that direction, but not to tell them what to do because nobody likes to be told what to do. Especially not a Kiwi, I just think. A bit like the auction, really. Yeah, yeah yeah there's there there there's definitely that. I think you're right. But I think you know i don't think it's unique to Kiwis whatsoever, but um nobody does. I think it's a human thing. We will we will make our own we like to be independent. that That ability to control our own work environment is a real critical one, isn't it? And I'm sure you'd you'd know that into as well in terms of your work.
Time Management and Health
00:17:56
Speaker
ah One of the the key factors that that people say is important to them and you know money comes further down the list, but but having some autonomy over over their work is is a really important one. It's the same with their health.
00:18:09
Speaker
Definitely. I'm thinking that you must have seen some quite radical, surprising transformations in the people that you've been working with. so what's the What are the sort of experiences that stand out from from the work that you've done?
00:18:21
Speaker
I don't know whether they're radical, but I suppose in a way, you know, if somebody makes a shift in the way they operate to so much an extent that it changes a lot about their life, then yes, you could call it radical.
00:18:32
Speaker
I think ah recalling one, I was working with a software, a vet veterinary software company, company and um one of the the team members who was assisting me set up for one of my presentations was one of these people that's a real fast mover, like, you know, getting a thousand things done at once. But I noticed that when we sat down and actually talked about coaching, you know energy was an issue for her. you know She wasn't sleeping particularly well. and And I just recognized some of the some of the behaviors because i can I've seen it in myself and and other people as well. But yeah when you rush from A to B all day long, you're telling your brain that you're running from the saber-toothed tiger. You're activating the sympathetic nervous system, which you know pushes you into fight or flight. And to be in that state for long periods of time is not good for our health. Having a gentle conversation with her about, you know do you think there's an opportunity to adjust this behavior? Yes, your role demands a lot of you and people are are expecting you to to deliver all these things for them. But is there a way in which you can do it? Still achieve the outcomes, but do it in a more gentle approach.
00:19:37
Speaker
Slow your brain down and give your body time to move from A to B rather than race from A to B. And then you're sending all the right signals back to your nervous system that you're not being chased by the saber-toothed tiger. You're pushing yourself into that parasympathetic state, which is rest and digest, which is where we're supposed to be most of the time. And therefore you'll have a better hormone balance. There's a whole bunch of other things. And I went back a while later for another presentation and I noticed a difference in in her demeanor. Even her language was slower. She spoke slower, didn't rush around the office as quickly, still got things done. But it was it was demonstrably different to the the person I saw the first time. And so, yes, there's a win. You know, that's that's going to have a big impact on her health. Great. It's interesting that you talk about the fight or flight sort of situation and the hormones that our bodies create in order to deal with the fight or flight situation. Even now software company, you know, the latest, greatest technology, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:20:40
Speaker
our bodies are still for understanding the world in that prehistoric type scenario of fight or flight. The saber tooth tiger is coming for us.
00:20:52
Speaker
What is it that we are going to do? It's very really interesting that you sort of like understand that type of situation and then thinking, yeah, okay. So what is it that I need to do? and I suppose,
00:21:05
Speaker
What you've just described there is almost a situation where the health issue that is created by having a body that is constantly in fight or flight mode is not so much solved by some type of health solution.
00:21:21
Speaker
It's solved by time management. That's right. isn's it And planning your diary so that you don't you have time in between yeah the decision-making activities where you've got to be in the fight or flight. What decision do I need to make in this situation is followed by yet a period of rest so that you you plan in the times where you're just going to do ordinary things which aren't necessarily going to put you into that fight or flight situation. but that's not a health such solution.
Career Management and Health
00:21:55
Speaker
That's a time management solution, which then impacts our health. And this idea, I've got to be shown to be busy. I've got to be yeah but to be yeah busy, busy, busy. It's not good for us at all. And what you need around the place is the person who's calm, cool, collected.
00:22:15
Speaker
and But when the time is right, is can be yep yeah i'm the person you need in a crisis i'm going to do xyz we're going to get through this i'm sort of thinking we need to be more selective about definitely what we're going to worry about and what we're going to go okay that's absolutely right um but i think first of all you've got to help people help raise people's awareness. So I see that as part of my role is that, are you aware of this is how you operate or how I've observed you operating? Because people don't, they just get into ah into ah into a groove, into a rut.
00:22:51
Speaker
and And they're not necessarily aware of the knock-on effects of of of you know their behavior in terms of their health. So shining the light is the first step. And then it's about, right, well, if you agree with what I say, what steps were you prepared to take to help yourself in that regard? um and And then they solutionize, they they find the way through that. And that's the exciting bit for me, because it's it's what they know they can achieve in their day, as opposed to me telling them what they need to do.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yes. And think it's also worth sort of putting this into the career management context as well, in that we can be of the belief that the busier that we appear, the more, you I've solved this crisis type of situation, which may not have actually have been a crisis. It's just the way in which we dealt with it created the impression that it was a crisis. But we try to be indispensable. We try to be the solution person. with a view to, well, that will get me promoted, that will get me the pay rise.
00:23:59
Speaker
And that comes from senior managers rewarding activities which actually are not as productive as rewarding the person who's better at the time management, who isn't rushing here, there, and everywhere, who is making decisions in a much more constructive and considered way rather than the fight-or-flight panic-driven find I listened to your episode on culture, Michael, and um you talked about you talked about it being, you know is it like is it constructed or is it is it developed or is it by default, I think were the words. And I thought that's exactly what we're talking about here, isn't it? Are senior management accepting this behavior or are they going to step in and say, hey, we don't do things like that around here. Let's slow things down. You don't need to rush. It's not a badge of honor.
00:24:52
Speaker
you're working yourself into the ground, know, find a different way or talk to this health coach. You know, this this is what we want to encourage in our organisation.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yes, I think there's an and element of it, which is we don't create culture as a sort. We're now going to create culture. Culture is created as a result of the policies, the processes, the lived experience that people have of senior managers and how they behave.
00:25:24
Speaker
It's not do what I tell you to do. You will replicate what you see and perceive to be successful within any organization. Whatever behaviors you see, you will replicate because that is what your brain is believing will make you successful. And as a result of that, senior management needs to sort be demonstrating that you if you are on holiday,
00:25:49
Speaker
then you're on holiday. You don't have to check your emails because everything should have been planned beforehand so that you could do those things. And that then leads into, we could have a conversation about how being able to delegate work properly will improve the health of the person doing the delegation. and also the person who's the recipient of the delegation because the delegation leads to the the stretching of people and the learning and this engagement with work and having control over the work and being able to see career progression. this is I didn't think this before we started this conversation, Rich, but actually...
Future Topics on Health and Work Intersection
00:26:28
Speaker
One of the things that we need to do, perhaps, is think about how we manage work and how we manage career progression and how we enable people to think about what they want to be doing as their career develops, in whichever way it develops. It know doesn't have to go up, it can broaden, and it can go in all sorts of different directions.
00:26:47
Speaker
But the... We need to build into the way in which we manage employment and careers, that element of understanding the health aspects of how managing our health, understanding how our bodies and brains work can actually enhance the our ability to fulfill our career ambitions as well as our ability to achieve our objectives. Totally agree.
00:27:16
Speaker
It's very interesting, Rich. Really very interesting. I hope I get the feeling that we've just merely scratched the surface of this. Yes, we i probably have. yeah Which just means that we can perhaps come back again in another time and discuss something more specifically about one of these different elements of how health and work, intersection the intersection between health management and education and work and success at work, how it all comes together.
Episode Wrap-up
00:27:46
Speaker
But for today, Rich, I've really enjoyed our conversation. and Like I say, you've changed my perception of the connection between health and work as well. So thank you very much.
00:27:57
Speaker
Great. You're very welcome. Thanks having It's great my pleasure. From across the world, you couldn't get much further apart really, could we? No, no. But great minds come together and sort of think the same sort of way. So thank you very much.
00:28:11
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. And in this episode of The Independent Minds, I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Richard Ellis from Rich Ellis Coaching in New Zealand.
00:28:24
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us at abocida.co.uk and at Rich's website, richalice.nz. There are links in the description.
00:28:37
Speaker
Knowing the risks early is an important part of health management. That is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test. York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamins, and various different organ functions.
00:28:56
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced lobotomist who will collect a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UK AS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:29:10
Speaker
You can access easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:29:24
Speaker
That description is well worth reading. I'm sure that you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Rich and I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:29:38
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:29:50
Speaker
Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening, and goodbye.