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Compliance, Culture and Consistency – a conversation with Janneh Wright
0 Playsin 11 hours
Understanding the three factors that create efficient and effective organisations
Janneh Wright is the founder and CEO of Primus Business Management,a provider of back office support to not-for-profit and mission led organisations.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Janneh discusses with host Michael Millward the three factors that determine how effective and efficient an organisation will be.
They discuss how
- Compliance is not just a legal issue. It can be applied to every aspect and of an organisation’s operations.
- The importance of communicating the rules and regulations.
- Compliance is achieved by using hard skills, but cultural objectives are accomplished through the application of soft skills.
- Culture creates the soul of an organisation
- Consistency is the engine of the organisation
- Effective leadership impacts the ability of an organisation to successfully apply the Three C Framework
This is the sort of podcast that will make you think about how your organisation might apply the Three C Framework.
Discover more about Janneh and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Independent Minds' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencaster. The all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production process so easy. There is a link in the description that will take you to Zencaster.com and it has a built-in discount.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm your host Michael Millward, the managing director of Abysida. Today
Janae Wright and the 3C Operational Framework
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm going to be finding out about the 3C operational framework from its creator Janae Wright.
00:00:54
Speaker
Very importantly on the independent minds we don't tell you what to think but we do hope to make you think. Janay is a business consultant who has developed the 3C operational framework. The 3Cs being compliance, culture and consistency.
00:01:14
Speaker
Janay is based in
Personal Anecdote and Travel Club Mention
00:01:16
Speaker
New York, New York. I always like to say it like that. It's a place I have been, but I haven't seen much of it. So I used to work there for a little bit, but it was all work. So if I do get the chance to go again, i will make all of my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I get trade prices on flights, trains, hotels, holidays and all sorts of other travel related purchases.
00:01:43
Speaker
You can do the same thing by using
Primus Business Management Overview
00:01:45
Speaker
the link in the description, which has a built in discount. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:02:02
Speaker
Hello, Janai. Hi, Michael. Let's start, please, by you giving us a little bit of a potted history of who Janai Wright is. Absolutely. I run a organization
Development of the 3C Framework
00:02:12
Speaker
called Primus Business Management located in New York City. And we specialize in working with small businesses and nonprofits, small media side businesses and nonprofits,
00:02:21
Speaker
on their back offices. So you know we specialize in accounting, human resource management, and operational management support for organizations because we understand how important three parts of a business is. So as we as we've developed these, you know it it's been over 20 years of doing this work, of working with small businesses, understanding their stories, understanding how we help them get to the next level.
00:02:43
Speaker
That's how this 3C's framework came about because we knew that we had to put in writing what we were doing for organizations over these years and try to help other people understand the importance of the back office.
00:02:55
Speaker
So those of us who are in back
Components of the 3C Framework
00:02:57
Speaker
office functions like finance and human resources, this is a way in which we start to get recognized for the value that we contribute into organizations rather than just being referred to as a cost center. Absolutely.
00:03:11
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay. Well, I am all ears then. How did it all come about? What's the process in which it was developed? How how did it happen? As we work with organizations, we always go into organizations with this mentality of you know we have to fix what's what's not working, we have to put in place new ideas, and then we have to help them really implement and and keep them moving forward. So as we were as we were doing that year over year, we started to realize that it became really interesting similarities with the organizations that really took hold of what we were telling them and how successful they've been.
00:03:45
Speaker
So we started really looking at that work and that framework and breaking it down into, OK, what did we do? How did we do it? and Why did we do it? And then we came up with these mo mentalities, right? So the three-street framework is you know the the compliance, the culture, and the consistency. We started to realize something, right? So the compliance part is about the structured organization, right?
00:04:03
Speaker
That's what's going to help safeguard the vision of the organization. When you go to culture, you're talking about the soul of the organization. It's what really expands and the experience that the stakeholders are going to get, whether it's employees, it's funders, it's customers. It's really about the soul of the organization.
00:04:20
Speaker
And its consistency is what's going to make sure that you're successful going forward. So as long as you put these three things together, it really helps create a system within any department, right? Anywhere around the organization. When you're talking about HR, i don't know, Michael, you're in HR. We'll talk a little bit more about it in that in that HR mindset. But this works in accounting, it works in HR, it works in operations, because we understand that each one of these parts really helps emphasize and really create a more dynamic organization for for our clients.
00:04:50
Speaker
Let's go through them in a little bit more detail. And
Importance of Compliance
00:04:53
Speaker
the first one, of course, is compliance. Now, my view is that if you are breaking the law or any guidelines, you are not compliant. So you really don't have a right to operate at all. Your first priority as an organization is to make sure that you comply with all the relevant legislation and guidelines that come out from various different organizations related to health and safety or equal opportunities or diversity, whatever it is, you are following the guidelines which have been laid down by people who've investigated issues and come up with like, this is the best practice.
00:05:33
Speaker
Absolutely. but you also You also want to put into there that it's about fairness, right? It's about transparency. It's about protecting both the organization, the employees, and the customers, right? So it's there's a lot of parts to this where compliance is really trying to help create the confidence employees and customers want to understand that that we're doing what we're supposed to do We're doing everything ah by the books. We have a really transparent way of operating. So no one feels that there's anything that's going wrong in the organization. right So when you talk about safeguarding that vision, it's about safeguarding the idea for everyone who's a part of stakeholders is what we call them. Everyone who's part of the organization, whether they're on the outside or inside, they can feel the fairness of what's happening inside the organization as well. Right. So fairness, common sense is an important part of this as well. I totally get that. One of the things, though, that I was thinking terms of the way in which you describe compliance is, yes, there is the legal element of it, but you also seem to describe compliance as an organization ah makes a promise to its customers about what it is that they will buy, whether that's a product or a service.
00:06:44
Speaker
And compliance in that context is almost like We've decided this is what the end result is going to look like. This is how it's going to be delivered. This is how it's going to be packaged. This is how it's going to be made. And compliance also encompasses all of those processes that what the organization does goes through before it actually reaches the final customer. And if you're compliant with those processes, those performance standards, then you are more likely to run a successful business.
00:07:17
Speaker
Absolutely. And and think about it also. is like you know Compliance is supposed to help a be a preventative process, right? If you're doing it well, you don't have to react to things later on that may happen because you're already in compliance with what should happen to your organization. As you said, all of those aspects of the customer interaction, the employee interaction,
00:07:35
Speaker
if you're doing compliance well, when something when something happens, we are all in business, we know something will happen. yes if The system's already in place ensure that you don't have to worry about it and you know exactly what's going to happen next. This is almost like what I say to people is, it's no point you sitting there and saying, we're all one great big happy family. There's no such thing.
00:07:56
Speaker
Exactly. Think about it. you know The people who it's most easy to have an argument with, most easy to fall out with, are the people you love the most, which is your family members, because you can always make it up again. But in the process of between the argument and the making up, there is all sorts of things that go wrong that shouldn't have gone wrong or didn't happen because people weren't talking to one another. So my thing is always to think about all of the various different scenarios that could, might, perhaps happen, work out how it is that you want to deal with those, and then document that. And like you were saying, be transparent about it so that everyone knows, if I break this rule, this is the consequences. But also, if I achieve this, these are the rewards. You've got that transparency, and it's all about the way in which you manage people, the way in which you do the job the jobs. You're complying with the the standards of the organization as well as the legal and industry standards.
00:09:01
Speaker
Absolutely. Like a policy that no one knows about no is a problem waiting to happen. Absolutely. Yes. There are numerous cases here in the yeah UK of employers who had a policy, but never shared it with their employees until one day they discovered their employees went following it.
00:09:19
Speaker
Not surprisingly, they hadn't been told about it. Then the employer takes action and ends up paying out a big bill because they had a policy which they never shared with anyone.
00:09:30
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. yeah and And that's the, that's the benefit of focusing on the compliance part of this, this 3C model. Yeah. Whereas the, Well, it's like say, it's you're not just talking about legal compliance. You're talking about compliance with the organization's standards of how we do things here in the broadest possible sense, which means that everyone can then pull those things together. It's a great way of
Organizational Culture and Its Impact
00:09:55
Speaker
describing all of those performance standards. I like it. You can tell I'm a fan. yeah We wouldn't be having the conversation if I wasn't a fan.
00:10:03
Speaker
No, absolutely. I only say that in the in the interest of transparency. you know It's like, yeah, this is why people get onto this independent the independent minds, because I've looked at what they do, and I like it, and it makes an awful lot of sense. so yeah let's I appreciate that. But um let's move on because like out of these three C's, the the one that is the most complicated, i think, is the culture one. Yes. So tell me what you mean by culture. So if if compliance is about structure,
00:10:38
Speaker
then culture is about the soul the organization, right? It's about the experience of the organization. How do people interact with each other? How do people interact with customers? Because you know one one of the things that we always talk about is you know if if you as a business owner Price- setting the culture of your organization, somebody else will set it for you and you don't want that right you want you want your if your if your staff. Price- If your employees are really in a really positive culture, they become ambassadors to your organization. David They'll be the ones talking about it they'll be the ones that's really delivering the service for you if they're in a toxic.
00:11:14
Speaker
culture, they're going start doing competition for you, right? They're going to start making sure that everybody goes somewhere else for for that work. So when we talk about culture, we're really talking about the experience that anyone is having within your organization, whether it's employees, whether it's customers, whether it's other stakeholders.
00:11:30
Speaker
What is that experience? How do we make a a culture that everyone feels safe, everyone feels protected, everyone feels like this is a great place to be? Yes. and To me, I don't disagree with you at all, although I might comment there's lots of HR speaking in what you just said, which is no bad thing. right But in many ways, the hard skills of the organization are the ones that enable you to comply. Yes.
00:11:56
Speaker
And the soft skills of the organization, large or small, are the ones that will create the culture. Yeah. And it's not just it's not just about... the soft skills either, right? yeah You know, it's not just about the perks. It's not just like, you know, it's it's about belonging.
00:12:12
Speaker
it's It's about feeling the the psychological safety of being in an organization, to know that people want to come to work every day, that people want to work here, that people want to be part of this environment that's here. So dividing designing a culture, and and when say just here, it's like, you know, does your does your customers enjoy coming to your organization? Does your customers enjoy talking to your staff?
00:12:34
Speaker
All these are part of that culture as well, right? So the soft skills are very important, right? You know, people want to go out for lunch for lunchtime. People want to have all that communication and the connectivity with staff.
00:12:45
Speaker
But are they feeling safe enough to come to work? Are they feeling that they can talk to their employers? Are they feeling that they can be as open about their the employee-centric culture as needed to in ensure that an organization is getting the best out of them? Yes, I'd agree with you. And I would add that if you have the right culture, you need to do less management of the compliance. Absolutely. Because the person who's working in a culture which fits with their aims and objectives and their values doesn't need to come to work and be someone else yes in order to fit in.
00:13:20
Speaker
If you have the rules that
Leadership's Role in Culture
00:13:22
Speaker
you want around, this is how we're going to deliver our product, our service, whatever it is, and that person has bought into your organization, they will be their own quality assurance.
00:13:34
Speaker
Correct. Because it matters to them. The awesome thing about that culture is not something that you could turn on and off when you want to, right? It has to be something that's built into the rhythm your organization. Yes. It has to be built into every family organization to ensure that people have those feelings of this is a place I want to be.
00:13:51
Speaker
at all times. And I would add to that, I think that when you're not in the organization, when you're not at work, you can almost recognize someone who works in that organization by the way in which they behave. Correct. Correct. And all all those, all those stem from, from, you know, developing that culture is implanted in every aspect of the management system, right? Who do you hire is going to be part of your culture. How you hire is going part of your culture. Now, all these are things that are said that you may see as small things, but it helps define who's in the organization with you. It helps you define how people interact. oh You always talk about, like in in the States, there's you know one of the the greatest things like Chick-fil-A.
00:14:35
Speaker
When you walk into certain restaurants, they say the same thing to you every single time, right? Everyone says good morning in a certain way. Everyone says goodbye in a certain way. And that's built into that cultural, into cultural organization because they want to build that kind of family-friendly environment where everyone feels really secure to be there. Yes. I remember when McDonald's arrived in the United Kingdom and everyone was commenting. It was all across the media. They don't say goodbye in McDonald's. They say, have a nice day. Yes. And it's like, well, I hope you don't say that.
00:15:12
Speaker
But it's like it's a nice way to end a conversation rather than goodbye, which is rather final. But I think at the time, in many restaurants and shops, the staff didn't, as a standard, say anything that drew the the conversation to a close. And when McDonald's arrived and was getting their employees to say, have a nice day that made other organizations aware of the importance of...
00:15:42
Speaker
the ongoing relationship with your customers. Absolutely. And it's it's important. yeah It's important. yes You've seen how a how a bad employee reacts, how that that that toxicity of one person can affect a company. right You see how how if your culture is not strong, a person with a big personality can affect the entire organization.
00:16:05
Speaker
So you know leadership has a part into into defining culture and making sure that it's being followed. The ownership has a part in defining culture because you're the ones people are watching to state how culture is, right? Like you said, in McDonald's, if if the owner of that McDonald's didn't say have a nice day, but expected all the employees to say it, it wouldn't work.
00:16:25
Speaker
That's true. Right? Because they're like, oh, it's not necessary. It's not that important. But if if you see that that owner is out front every single day saying have a nice day, have a nice day to everyone in there, it will build into everyone else. And that's the kind of culture you want to build. So it has to also start with leadership. It has to be part
Assessing Cultural Fit in Hiring
00:16:41
Speaker
ingraining them so they can make sure that they are an example for all the other employees and customers as they start working through their day.
00:16:47
Speaker
Yes. And of course, as an employer, one of the things you have to accept is that if you've got the culture that you want in your organization, there will be people who don't want to work in that type of culture. And whilst it's never a good thing really that someone leaves, it can be a good thing if they're just not right for your organization.
00:17:08
Speaker
and And that's why I mentioned like when when you talk about the hiring process, right? If your culture doesn't show up in the questions that you ask in that interview or it doesn't show up in the way you describe the organization, then you're doing yourself a disservice in both sides. One, you're doing yourself a disservice because then someone who can come in. yeah i've I've interviewed thousands of people and some people are great talkers, right? They will talk circles around anyone and let everyone know that they're the greatest ever.
00:17:36
Speaker
But if they don't hit certain cultural cues for you, then you understand that whatever they're talking is not going to fit in this organization. So when you're designing it right from the beginning to the end, you have to understand that your culture is so important to the organizational development for every aspect of that ah HR process, every aspect of that customer care process, every part to a customer lifeline, to an employee lifeline. to any funders lifeline, that culture needs to be there because that you can understand that they belong with you earn and that they feel that that belonging to the organization and not just here to get a paycheck and go home. So what type of question would you ask someone in a recruitment interview to that would give you an idea of the type of values that they have and the type of culture that they would thrive in?
00:18:26
Speaker
So we are a consulting firm at heart, right? So we do a lot of work with organizations. In some cases, we are doing work that's kind of built by, you know, consultancy is built by the hour situation. You know, what happens if you can't finish something, right? That's one of our that's one of our questions. what What happens if you're working on a project and you're running out of time? How do you deal with it?
00:18:46
Speaker
And for us, it's the client is first. So we're going to we're gonna let them know front. We're going to let them know way ahead of time that we can't finish on time. We're going to be very transparent about the next steps and processes. So when we're talking to people, we're looking for those kind of answers, right? We're looking for those kinds of of situational awareness of their own priority setting. We're looking for answers around how they communicate when something is wrong.
00:19:09
Speaker
We're looking for answers of like, you know, We want people to tell us the truth about how they're going to engage with us as their supervisor and their client to ensure that our culture of transparency is part of our organization.
00:19:22
Speaker
So we find questions that really relate to what we want the end result to be because this is how we want to react. and And we ask questions ensure that we can get pulled that out of our interviews. Right. A bit like my view has always been that if something has gone wrong, my manager is going to find out about it from me before he or she finds out about it from someone else.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yes. you' give be You'd be surprised how many times i've I've heard answers where, well, I'll work extra hours and I'll work harder and I'll push this and push that. I'm like, but in this whole conversation, you didn't tell anybody that there's a problem yet. Right. That has to be the first part answer, because that's important. It's important cause because because, you as an organization, you know, I've done every position in the organization. I know how much work it is. I know how hard it is.
00:20:06
Speaker
Knowing that I will jump in to help you is an important part of this concept. But if you're trying to do it yourself and you're goingnna stay at work tilll till late the hours to get it completed. That's not the culture we have here. We really are organization who believe in family time, who believe in work-life balance.
00:20:21
Speaker
It's much more collegiate than having someone who wants to be the hero. Exactly. exactly So those kinds of things are important to us as we are looking at at at hiring people. Okay. Well, if someone is
Role of Consistency in Operations
00:20:32
Speaker
applying to Prius company, then that's a useful hint to remember, isn't it? Yeah. But the third part of these three C's is consistency. So what do you mean when you use the word consistency in this context? Sure. So the first part, compliance, structure,
00:20:49
Speaker
soul is the is a culture, consistency is the engine, right? This is what's going to drive everything else that's happening in the organization. So when we talk about consistency, we're talking about predictability, right? Because predictability builds trust.
00:21:01
Speaker
you know, employees should know exactly how what to expect from leadership, what expect through processes, what expect through policies. So when we talk about consistency, this is the the driving engine organization. So we're going to talk about You know, how do people know things are happening? What's the policy? Is it written down? Where is it written down?
00:21:19
Speaker
How do we follow things? How do we save things? How do we communicate with each other, right? So it kind of like building up that that driving engine that everything everyone knows exactly what's going to happen.
00:21:30
Speaker
So you take the information from from the compliance section, you write it down on SOP. People know exactly how to do it. You take information from the culture section, you write it down to SOP. These things are going to make sure that it's a driving engine for the workflow for the organization.
00:21:45
Speaker
right it's it's It sustains the success of the organization. It's like the heartbeat. right it's It's what everyone counts on to ensure that I know exactly what's going to happen. And you know part of part of one of the things that I've seen over the years that always cause, especially in the HR department, what causes issues sometimes is a manager who talks to one person the different way than talk to somebody else. right So Michael wants a day off, but he has no more time off. It's okay, Michael, go on.
00:22:12
Speaker
Janae wants a day off. You have no more time. That's inconsistent with the policy de organization. That causes drama. And that's what we do not want. We do not want any drama in this organization. when we talk about consistency, it's about SOPs, it's about writing down rules, it's about making sure that what we do is really predictable to employees, it's predictable to to clients, it's predictable to customers, predictable to stakeholders. right Even if you think about of a restaurant, right two different chefs are going to cook something two different ways.
00:22:45
Speaker
that may annoy clients, right? yeah So understanding that that recipe that you're following has to be done exactly the same way every single time means that regardless of who that chef is, the food is consistently.
00:22:57
Speaker
And that's what's going to build success. That's what's going to build the the longevity that you're looking for under a revision. The finished product is
Balancing Innovation with Consistency
00:23:04
Speaker
consistent for the user of the finished product. But all the consistency sounds great and I can see efficiencies and yeah great communication, all sorts of things. I can see the positive side of it. Yes.
00:23:17
Speaker
But what about innovation? If everything is consistent and predictable and the same, what about innovation? If you don't innovate, you're going to stagnate and that's going to damage the business. So how do you build innovation into the three C's?
00:23:35
Speaker
So remember, consistency is an engine, right? It's a tool that runs forward, right? The innovation part is kind like, for what why I tell people about consistency is, consistency only goes as far as culture and kind and compliance takes it, right? So if something is not running in the newest format, there's something wrong in the cultural side. There's something wrong the consistency side, in the in the compliance side. So when you bring those two back to it, that's where the innovation shows up, right? How are we engaging with clients? how we What's our workflows? What's the requirements that's happening right now?
00:24:06
Speaker
That's going to give you a new aspect or a new insight to what the compliance section is, what the culture section is, and that's going to run right into a new set lab level of consistency. So consistency is just the engine. It's going to move what you've created.
00:24:19
Speaker
You still have to go back to culture. have to back compliance to ensure that innovation is part of that process. Right. It all sounds great, and like I said out there. Being transparent, I am a fan of the whole sort of approach that you're taking. i can see some similarities with the way in which we work as well, which means that it's just great minds thinking alike.
00:24:40
Speaker
and tonight yeah Have you ever
Challenges in Implementing the 3C Framework
00:24:42
Speaker
found an organization where this approach doesn't work? So the organizations where it doesn't work, it usually starts with leadership, right? this is ah it's it's It's a mindset. It's a change of information. one of the one of the One of the main reasons we get called for this work is when a new organization is starting to grow, they're they're hiring their fourth, fifth employee, and all of the policies are in the head of the founder. That's when that's where when you start to grow, that's where that mentality doesn't work anymore. It's an absolute necessity when you're when you're running, right? When you're starting up and you're moving, information has to has to be in someone who can make decisions.
00:25:22
Speaker
As you start to grow, information has to be disseminated. right It has to be passed on to other people. So when it doesn't work is when that founder doesn't want to let go of certain things. They don't want to delegate. it doesn't want So that's when we usually find the biggest headaches, when there's someone in the management section that does not understand the power of delegation or the power of of informational flowing through an organization simpler and easier.
00:25:48
Speaker
That's when it doesn't work. So once once we find that that manager who's like, yes, I understand that I have 3,000 things to do, but I can pass 2,900 of them on.
00:26:00
Speaker
So my job is easier. So I can focus on the growth. I can focus on what I want to focus on. That's when it works really well. Right. It's always that's where is is that bottleneck situation that can cause headaches and in this in this framework.
00:26:14
Speaker
I can see that. You know, it is a really interesting framework. And, you know,
Contact Information and Closing Remarks
00:26:20
Speaker
if people want to find out more more information, how can they contact you? Sure. i Go to our website, www.primus, P-R-I-M-U-S-C-O.
00:26:30
Speaker
And you can learn a lot about about the organization, learn a lot about us and how we do, learn a lot more about the 3C framework, and that'd be the best way to contact us. That'd be great. Thank you very much. You know, Junaid, it has been really interesting. I really do appreciate your time today. It's been great.
00:26:46
Speaker
appreciate it, Michael. Thank you for having me Pleasure. Pleasure. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind Janae Wright, the creator of the 3C operational framework. You can find out more about both of us at abasida.co.uk. There is a link in the description along with a link to Janae's website as well.
00:27:12
Speaker
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00:28:21
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Janae and I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:28:37
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.