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Bar Tips for Success in Sales – a conversation with author Neil Rogers
14 Plays5 days ago
Working behind a bar taught Neil Rogers everything he needed to know about how to be successful in sales.
Neil Rogers gave up a successful corporate sales career to set-up Rogers Marketing and then he co-founded Positive Activity.
After a less than successful time in education Neil worked in the hospitality industry, mainly as a bar tender. His customers convinced him that he would make a good sales person. So, he returned to college and then embarked on a career in sales.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Neil explains to host Michael Millward how the lessons he learnt working behind a bar helped him to be successful both in education and in his sales career.
After hearing Jerry Murrell the founder of the Five Guys burger restaurant chain speak, Neil realised how his experience in hospitality had contributed to his career success.
Michael also started his adult career in hospitality and reflects with Neil on the lessons they both learnt from working in hospitality that helped them in their respective careers.
Tom Cruise who played a bartender in the hit movie Cocktail gets a mention.
Discover more about Neil and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Purchase Bar Tips: Everything I Needed to Know in Sales I Learned Behind the Bar from Amazon
Neil recommends reading books by Anthony Robbins and Jim Rohn
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:05
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward.
00:00:15
Speaker
so easy hu and welcome to the independent minds series of conversations between aasidar and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone i am your host the Managing Director of Abucida.
00:00:36
Speaker
In this episode of The Independent Minds, I'm going to be learning everything I need to know in sales from Neil Rogers, the author of Bar Tips, everything I needed to know in sales I learned behind the bar.
Neil's Career Journey and Key Insights
00:00:51
Speaker
Neil is the Vice President of Sales at Rogers Marketing and the co-founder of Positive Activity. In Bar Tips, everything i needed to know in sales I learned behind the bar Neil charts his journey from bartending to building a successful sales career.
00:01:09
Speaker
Hopefully, we'll be able to entice Neil to share with us some of the relatable real-world insights he learned and explain why he focuses on the little things that drive big results.
00:01:22
Speaker
Neil is based in New Hampshire in the United States, one of those states I have never visited. If I ever get the chance to visit New Hampshire, I will make use of my membership of the Ultimate Travel Club to make all of my travel arrangements.
00:01:37
Speaker
That is because membership of the Ultimate Travel Club gives me access to trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, all sorts of other travel related purchases.
00:01:47
Speaker
In the spirit of sharing, I have added a link with a built-in discount to the description so that you can become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club as well and just like me travel at trade prices.
00:02:00
Speaker
Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to and probably good enough to share with your friends, family and work colleagues as well.
Casual Conversation on Weather
00:02:15
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Hello, Neil. Hey, Michael, how are you?
00:02:25
Speaker
I am extremely well, thank you very much and hope that you can say the same. Never better, my friend, even with 18 inches of snow from the other day. oh no it's january 2026 and where i am in the united kingdom we've had so rain every single day all sorts of places are flooded the weather is going like manic for some reason but uh it's so spring will soon be here yeah hope springs eternal right yes you gotta look on the positive side of everything i'm really pleased that you've joined us today because
00:03:00
Speaker
You know, I also worked in a bar whilst I was a student and studying to be an HR professional.
Skills Transition from Bartending to Sales
00:03:05
Speaker
And I am intrigued to learn whether what I think you learned about sales behind a bar is what you learned about sales because having the same sort of experience. But can we please start by we just outlining your career and how you ended up running at least two businesses? Well, um my career started out a little rocky as I was not a very good student ah to to start with.
00:03:31
Speaker
And then I kind of, so I flunked out a couple of times of of school at school. And, um, all the while I was working in the hospitality business. um and And at that time I was working as a bar back or, a you know, a bar back would really be the last job I had before I shifted. And I i decided I wanted to be a bartender. And the only reason why was cause I thought it looked cool.
00:03:56
Speaker
It was no career decision. It was no anything. It just wound up being some sort of career decision. It sounds like you were watching Tom Cruise in Cocktail. Well, i'd like to say I'd like to say that was in my in that time, but it was way before Tom Cruise in Cocktail. This is 1978. No, actually, 79.
00:04:15
Speaker
guess I was because I was years old. okay and so yeah so i got the job And realized that, you know, I really like this whole service gig.
00:04:30
Speaker
You know, somebody comes in, you treat them nice, you give them what they want, they thank you, you move on. Right? So it's like, well, I think I, and I had a little shine for it. I was, I was pretty good at it, you know, out of the gate and on it being very good at it. So i I just decided at that point that maybe this is something for me, at least least this this service aspect of it. But I also knew in the back of my head, I didn't want it to be my life's work and not that I have any, I think i think it's a noble profession. It just just wasn't going to be for me, but but what am I going to do? So I wound up...
00:05:06
Speaker
over time.
Sales Approach and Bartending Influence
00:05:07
Speaker
so I was working the bar and then I still stay, I went back to school because people would say to me, you know, Neil, with your interpersonal skills and your service and and all that, you might be really good in sales. Okay. Now I still got to get this degree, which is, you know, I've already swung and missed a couple of times on, right. But I get back, I get back into it. And, uh, essentially I started my sales process right there.
00:05:29
Speaker
And that was, i don't know if anybody knows this about going to school. They like you to show up.
00:05:36
Speaker
They like you to ask questions. yes They like you to do the work. yeah They like you to be prepared. They like you to participate. They like you to ask you like you to go to the office hours, do the extra projects.
00:05:49
Speaker
So essentially it kind of created this, my own little algorithm or process, if you will, of just, it's kind of a sales process. You know, you show up, you know, you're well prepared.
00:06:00
Speaker
you know, and on and on, right? so um So essentially, so from there, I finished up my degree, did did very well. In the end, I was a pretty good student. I went on to, my first job was in Manhattan, in the five boroughs, the whole five boroughs in of New York, selling athletic footwear and apparel. And it was ah it was an okay gig out of the gate, but the the stuff that I was selling, nobody, really nobody wanted. This was in the heyday, well, Nike's still in the heyday. Nike, Reebok, those types of things.
00:06:30
Speaker
And so when I was um trying to develop relationships and said, and the other thing, and it and it just, it just didn't work out. So I went back to but bought the Boston area and I, and I sold food. So in this, now I've got an opportunity to go ahead and put in my own process that I started in school.
00:06:48
Speaker
And that was, you know, I went out, I mapped out where I wanted to go. I went in to all the stores, all the restaurants, all the hotels, all the all the all the areas that we can sell sell our products in. And I just was well presented.
00:07:03
Speaker
I wasn't intrusive. i I gave a good greeting when when i when I met somebody. And then when I did get to meet meet with you know a chef or something like that with people that we would talk to, I was a good listener and I took good notes.
00:07:19
Speaker
And so, and if I didn't know anything on on a specific topic, I wouldn't, I wouldn't try to pull a wool over their eyes. I say, I don't really know that. I will get back to you.
00:07:30
Speaker
And I go back to them. Mm-hmm. So all these little, those, so now we're we're already mapping out the little things, right? So I started out that that business, they gave me in business, they gave me $3,000 a week. Now that's business, that's not commissions. I was literally making a hundred dollars a week and I made $500. I kept my bar job and I made $500 on weekend.
00:07:51
Speaker
But over time and in 18, by the time I was, by the time i I left, which was 18 months later, I took that business from, let's see, so what's that 3,000 times? 150,000 to 1.8 million.
00:08:07
Speaker
Nice. And that's just showing up, being kind, knowing what I was talking about, being organized, being able to get questions answered, over-delivering, under-promising, all the little things. And then I moved on from there. So at that time, so now I'm feeling my oats a little bit. I think I've got, and now I think I've got this, I got this thing going on. friend of mine approached me and said, Hey Neil, i ah would you consider working for us?
00:08:33
Speaker
And I knew they were successful and I knew they were, i knew and I've known these guys for for years. I said, yeah, I think I'd love to do that. So I went from making pretty decent money, my wife and I at at the time and to nothing.
00:08:49
Speaker
I mean, she kept her job. She was working at Fidelity Investments. But i I went to straight commission job and that was, i don't know, approximately $250,000 in sales, which equated to be about $5,000 in commissions.
00:09:03
Speaker
Now I've got to pay my own expenses. I could do all these other things. But prior to, prior to leaving my job at the, in the food distributorship, The day ended at 2.30 because you if you can't get your order, all the orders had to be in by 2.30 for next day. Well, I wasn't prospecting anymore. i wasn't doing anything. If i had a do to do a follow-up, I would, but I was able to sit down and map out my whole territory of my new job.
00:09:28
Speaker
And then I got all my samples. I got them all prepared. I organized them. I got them in bags. They all look great. And by the time go started, I was ready to go.
00:09:40
Speaker
So i would I would just start mapping out my route and and that that's where I went really on the road in all of most of New
Positive Activity Methodology
00:09:46
Speaker
England. That business, using the same philosophy, using the same things that I just just mentioned, both in the school but my my efforts in school, and my efforts in in the food business, I made that a $10 million dollars business in four years. Very nice. Very impressive. So, so it's like, you know, and then, there you know, there's some other circumstances in this, some of the stuff got hot, so like we were in the licensed product business, which was college, NFL, NBA, that started to get hot. you know, it's it's, it's fever pitch now compared to what it was then, because it's, it's truly fashion.
00:10:19
Speaker
you know i had And I wound up developing some major accounts, which hit. So I was not only calling on the mom and pops, which I love to do, because you can walk in, you can get to know them, you get to know their business.
00:10:29
Speaker
I was calling on major accounts too, and that were in my area, and I closed all of those. So that's really where the growth came from. so but's ah But it's it's just a repeatable form formula that we teach that's not only in the book, it's it's chapter 15 in the book, but we do a whole process on it. That's the whole positive activity gig.
00:10:48
Speaker
And the only mix that, the only thing that we mix in now is that, you know, the first part of, you know, is getting yourself positive. So you get it, you're using mindful, mindful techniques, happiness techniques, positivity techniques that get your place, you get yourself into a place of happiness, a positivity, which leads you to, which leads you open, open-minded solution, providing creativity.
00:11:12
Speaker
So we live our lives in in kind of creative mode. So we don't see problems, although don't get me wrong, I can i can i can stew over a problem for 24 hours, but I know at some point in time, if I keep working it through, we'll come up with the solution. And that's not only in my professional life, it's in my personal life as well.
00:11:33
Speaker
you know we've got a thirty but We have a son who's a year old man with who's profoundly autistic. So when something hiccups with him, it's like, okay, how are we going to fix this? I know we'll fix it. I know we'll figure it out.
00:11:44
Speaker
It'll happen. Don't worry about it. I mean, just make it happen. Yes. I think a lot of people will understand that. One of the things when I was listening to i'm thinking like, this is really impressive. And then there was one of the things I'm thinking, someone could read all of this in a book and know that the sort these are the sorts of things that I'm supposed to do.
00:12:03
Speaker
But I get the feeling that although you understand and you know about the different techniques that you could use. That experience that you had in the bars was maybe you're putting it into practice before you may have actually known how to describe it.
00:12:21
Speaker
But that was what would get you through the the evening, the shift, with ah as little amount of hassle as possible. And people clients behave the customers behaving well and you having a good shift with people that you're getting on on well with correct rather than having any problems with anyone or not enjoying the work that you were doing yourself and i'm wondering how do you sort of connect the two know how do you connect the go from yeah i've learned this skill i can transfer it into this but actually when you put it into the book
00:12:55
Speaker
it's all very, very logical. And with a company called Abysida, it means to put into logical order. So I'm always interested in how other people put things into logical order. It was, it was all done in retrospect because I wrote the book during, you know what? Yeah. And I don't want to say the word.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah. I know what you mean And it really was just kind of laid out in that fashion that when I, you know, we've got a big, my process in, in writing is to get a big,
00:13:22
Speaker
analysis pad or writers writers, a artist pad and just scribble and brain dump, you know? And so when I started writing this stuff, I just started going through the process. Well, one things that were kind of the aha moment on it was we listened to a keynote speech from a guy that brought five guys, burgers, five guys is a, it's a burger, a hamburger chain all over the, all over the U S they might even be over there too. I'm not sure. we have them in the united kingdom as well they are for some people their burger of choice yeah i mean it's i mean it's pretty tasty you know in the burger the fries they use their friend you know the regular they're real french fries look there for five guys so we'll put a link into their uk and us websites as well they are nice so he was kind he was a cool guy he was uh well he was well spoken but also authentic you know you you could tell like me when i speak to people i'm out in public
00:14:19
Speaker
or I'm speaking to a crowd. I'm not going to try to act like I'm from Harvard. I flunked out of Boston, Bunker Hill Community College. Right. So it's, it's, it's me, it's authenticity. That's what we do.
00:14:31
Speaker
And he started talking about, and you may remember in your experience with hospitality, There was a thing called pre meal, which is where they kind of talked about, you know, what's, what's new, what, what, what are the specials, whatever that may be. obviously five guys is kind of a little limited menu. So his, his pregame was more along the line of, ah of a raw raw speech, which was, he said, we're not in the burger business. We're not in the fry business. We're not in the soda business. We're not in the shake business.
00:14:58
Speaker
We're in the hospitality business. Yes. My head just spun to my wife. And for point of context, we met when I was a bartender at place called Tia's in Boston.
00:15:08
Speaker
And Lori was a food waitress. And I looked her and i said, I've never left the bar business. I've been bartending on the road for 30, almost 40 years.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yes. yes And so that's when that's when that hit me. So we did a little, I did some research into how other businesses are using hospitality, right? That was three years before I started writing the book.
00:15:34
Speaker
Maybe four, I don't even know exactly the number, but it was some time before I started writing it. So when a friend of mine said to me, you know, you should write a book. I'm like, oh. What do I write on? And then I remembered hospitality.
00:15:46
Speaker
And then I had written, i had already written some things about growing up. So I kind of tell my story of, you know, underachieving in the first couple of chapters. and Then we talk about hospitality.
00:15:58
Speaker
And then we talk about all the things, the simple simple things like the importance of a proper greeting. If you want to set something off in the wrong direction, have a crappy attitude when somebody comes into the bar.
00:16:11
Speaker
It's not going to go well. if That's how we're going to start. Now, if you come in there say, what's going on? How are you doing tonight? what do you What's your pleasure? I've been waiting for you to arrive. I'm really glad you arrived. Whatever. Something simple. It's going to be a good night now that you're here. Yeah. Good day good to have you here tonight.
00:16:28
Speaker
and Put the cocktail napkin down. Whatever. what are you What are you thinking about tonight? Are you going to have dinner? What are you going to do? Et cetera. So me just a little light banter. The reality with hospitality is, of course, that like with the five guys, when someone comes in to a hospitality venue, yeah, they might buy a drink, yeah, they might buy food, that might be part of it. But a large part of it is they want the hospitality. They've come in there to meet with friends, with family, with work colleagues, they've got a purpose for going there. And that can be the fact that they're going to have a conversation with the bartender.
00:17:04
Speaker
And the bartender is going to give them time to have that conversation because you never know the person's backstory. You never know why they've come in. You never know what what has happened to them five minutes before you get to meet them.
00:17:18
Speaker
And you don't want to transfer, I suppose, any of the problems that you've got on in your life to the person that you're trying to make the focus of the conversation. No true words spoken there, my friend.
00:17:31
Speaker
Thank you very much. I had the experience of working in a bar as well. And I think with my, eightmire I was going to sales, was going into human resources. I think part of what it taught me was patience. You know, it can take some people a long time to decide what sort of drink they're going to have or what they're going to eat.
Building Client Relationships
00:17:50
Speaker
It can take people time to move on to the next drink that they want to have or or the next stage of their evening. And you have to work with each individual at the pace that they want to work at, even though you may be rushing around when you're interacting with them, you have to make sure that you're interacting with them at their pace.
00:18:12
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. It's all about, like you say, reading and understanding the other person and what the other person needs from that interaction, which is then, and it's so easy to do really once you're consciously doing it and then it becomes an unconscious thing that you're doing because it's just how you operate.
00:18:30
Speaker
But it really is the best way to develop those. Okay. a long-lasting, productive client relationship, isn't it? Oh, it certainly is. if you set it off in the wrong direction, you know it's it's difficult to recover. you know if If you're in the bar business, okay it's one thing.
00:18:46
Speaker
You might have a number of people coming in And you're probably not going to bat a thousand. Nobody does, but, um, you know, just put your best face forward as much as you can. you know, it's going to get busy. Things are going to happen. Yes. You know, try to try to revert back to, uh, the way you were. And and again, nobody's batting a thousand, but, uh, you know, you try, you know, and I think that's, that's the same thing when you're out ah out on the road or looking in, in, you know selling it or whatever you're doing, you know, just, uh, humble and kind is the way to go. Yes.
00:19:17
Speaker
think, you know, from the book, Bar
Insights from Neil's Book
00:19:20
Speaker
tips. What would be the thing that people are going to so'd be reading through it and going, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, I think I'm already doing that. And then they turn a page and go, I never thought about that.
00:19:31
Speaker
Can we let a secret out of the bag and and perhaps one of those sorts of things that people will be surprised by? Well, there's two actually that I think are ah really poignant that I like to always highlight. And one is peripheral knowledge.
00:19:43
Speaker
So peripheral knowledge is really part of hospitality in that It's not something you are going to benefit from right that moment. In other words, when you're at a hotel and you walk out, walk out the door and you ask the doorman, Hey, where's the, where's the closest yoga studio?
00:20:02
Speaker
And he knows, or she knows that's peripheral knowledge. You know, what is that going to come back with? You know, you might get a tip right there. We might get a better tip at the end or whatever that is. So that's always important. So whatever business you're in, not that we're looking for tips, but you know we're looking to assist our customers in any way we can.
00:20:23
Speaker
And then the other one is, which I think is is really important, and I think it's it's a challenge for a lot of people, is that ah being right, it's overrated. So if a business if a business problem arises, take ownership of it.
00:20:40
Speaker
How could I have done better? Well, no, I'm not saying you verbalize this to them, but I mean, you you internalize, okay, how could I have done that before you go lashing out, like and in the food business, which is where I learned this, you know, from this mentor of mine, it's, you don't want to just like immediately, well, you know, the guy in the truck probably messed it up all with a good warehouse guy. He's an idiot. Or my customer service person, she just never gets anything right.
00:21:05
Speaker
Nobody looks good. Nobody, especially you, they don't even know those other people. Take ownership of it, solve it as quickly as and as stealthily as you can. if you If they don't know it, perfect. So those are the two big ones. And I, and again, those are, uh, especially the, the, the taking ownership part that helps you so many ways, helps you with your personal life as well.
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, it's, uh, just, if something goes wrong, you know, I should have done better. Yeah. That's good. You and, and, um, so I think that those are, those are, those are kind of things that you might not think of, you know, when you're, when you're reading the book.
00:21:43
Speaker
It came as a surprise to me when you mentioned them, but when I think about it, You stay in a hotel, for example, and you've asked a question on your first visit.
00:21:54
Speaker
And as I was explaining to you just before we started, you know I used to visit a different hotel every day of the working week or every night of the working week in a different country in Europe. I've lived that film with George Clooney up in the air. yeah You're in a hotel, you're in the same hotel, and they ask you a question about something.
00:22:11
Speaker
You give them the answer. like this is how I would like sort of thing. And the next time you don't have to ask, it's all of a sudden automatically it is done for you without you having to ask. You have to, you listen to what people tell you.
00:22:26
Speaker
and you act on that and you change how you behave in order to make sure that the customer, guest, client, however you want to describe them is getting what they want, what they need without having to ask for it.
00:22:40
Speaker
And it all comes from taking notice of that for the peripheral knowledge, I suppose. cur m You reminded me when you were talking about the taking ownership when a problem arises, I was having lunch with a friend in a pub in London and the landlord came over to or the landlady came over to clear the tables and I said to my mom that was really fantastic and she said oh I'll tell the chef when I'm talking to him again and we all laughed because there have been all sorts of different things but she turned the whole sort of the
00:23:15
Speaker
She turned it all into like a really pleasant type of game type of situation. And it made it it made the meal a a little bit more fun because we went on to buy another drink.
00:23:29
Speaker
it's It's creating the atmosphere that you want to stay in, creating a relationship that you want to continue, that your customer is going to look forward to your arrival is hospitality.
00:23:41
Speaker
You may not be selling food or drink or a bedroom, but you are providing a hospitable environment hospitable relationship where people feel value like you say you like uh the uh the simple straightforward things in life and breaking it down into general straightforward advice and uh yeah that's great have you ever heard of ever heard of a guy by the name jim rome i can't say that i have So Jim Rohn is you know, author, motivational speaker, entrepreneur, and he, he mentored Tony Robbins. You probably heard of Tony, right? Oh, I've heard of Tony Robbins. Yes. So Jim's take on success. What is this? Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
00:24:25
Speaker
Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying the basic fundamentals, also known as the little things. The little things. That is great.
Episode Conclusion and Key Takeaways
00:24:37
Speaker
You know, Neil, I have really enjoyed talking to someone who started their working life just like me in a bar. Thank you very much. i really enjoyed this afternoon and i've learned to lot. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Michael. I enjoyed it. Thank you.
00:24:50
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, the managing director Apocida. I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Neil Rogers, the author of Bar Tips, Everything I Needed to Know in Sales I Learned Behind the Bar.
00:25:04
Speaker
and the VP of Sales at Rogers Marketing and co-founder of Positive Activity. You can find out more about both of us by using the links in the description. Every salesperson needs to be healthy.
00:25:18
Speaker
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00:25:29
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:25:58
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure Personal Wellness Hub account. As you would expect, there is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:26:12
Speaker
I am sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Neil and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:24
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. You'll probably also want to share the link with your friends, family, and work colleagues and possibly anyone you know who is in sales or working in the hospitality industry as well.
00:26:40
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.