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Stillness and Leaders – a conversation with Markus Neukom
16 Plays6 days ago
How can leaders use stillness to improve performance
Moving from Europe to North America gave Markus Neukom the opportunity to reflect on his career as an executive coach. He asked his clients what the most valuable aspect of working with him had been.
Their response was the sense of stillness that he created in meetings.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds Markus explores with host Michael Millward what creating a sense of stillness means and how leaders can use stillness to enhance their work performance and work life balance.
Their conversation covers a wide range of topics including
- Stillness as a source of psychological safety
- How stress develops
- Societal expectations as a source of stress
- The importance of self-awareness
Discover more about Markus and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencastr and Independent Minds
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast production and distribution process so easy.
00:00:16
Speaker
Use the link in the description to visit zencastr.com and take advantage of the built-in discount on subscription fees. Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box.
00:00:33
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about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone. I'm your host Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida.
Stillness in Leadership with Marcus Newcomb
00:00:45
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In this episode of The Independent Minds, Marcus Newcomb and I are going to be discussing the role of stillness in successful leadership. Marcus is a human operating system architect with a focus on executive clarity and presence.
00:01:02
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I love that job title, Human Operating System Architect. We will find out what is actually involved in a few minutes. Marcus is based in Boston in Massachusetts in the United States of America.
00:01:15
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I have been to the United States, but I have not been to Massachusetts, but if I ever get the opportunity to visit, I will make use of my membership of the Ultimate Travel Club to make my travel arrangements.
00:01:28
Speaker
That is because membership of the Ultimate Travel Club gives me access to trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays and all sorts of other travel related purchases.
00:01:39
Speaker
I have added a link with a built-in discount to the description so that you can become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club and travel at trade prices just like me.
Role of a Human Operating System Architect
00:01:49
Speaker
Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds that will be well worth listening to liking downloading and subscribing to and probably good enough to share with your friends family and work colleagues as well as with every episode of the independent minds we will not be telling you what to think but we are hoping to make you think hello marcus hi michael how are you today oh i'm doing great thanks for having me it's a great pleasure i'm looking forward to a conversation because I have never spoken to a human operating system architect before.
00:02:29
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What is it that you do? You see what's interesting? If someone had asked me, what do you do? Probably just two years ago, i would have said that I'm a successful executive coach and business consultant.
00:02:45
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And when I came to the US a year ago, I landed with two questions. Why am I here? And why am I here?
00:02:57
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The first one was, why am I alive? That was not that hard to answer, because I somehow sensed, you know, what my purpose is.
00:03:08
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But the second one was harder. Why am I here now in the US? s As you can imagine, in, you know, in not the easiest times politically and economically, people ask me, why did you leave Switzerland?
00:03:21
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How would you come to the U S and that was actually the answer. I wanted to
Identity Beyond Careers
00:03:26
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find out. We're talking about you moving from Switzerland to the United States of America in 2024. And when you talk about the political upheavals, you're talking about the start of the second term of president Donald Trump, which it's not just America that at the time was going through turmoil. The whole world is, is,
00:03:46
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in a state of flux, as we would say here in new Yorkshire. So I get exactly what you mean. But how did you answer those questions? You see, was interesting. It it took me took me a couple of days, Michael.
00:03:59
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What was interesting was I suddenly saw an answer. You are not an executive coach anymore. And you're not a business consultant anymore. And I thought, what heck am i So I've been an executive coach and business consultant for 20 plus years.
00:04:19
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And now that's suddenly gone. Yeah. And the answer was, yeah.
00:04:27
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So I said, my entire career, meaning my life is history. That was exactly my tone. I had history, like non-belief, totally non-belief.
00:04:41
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And then I heard a voice in me saying, For the moment, yes, because now we see what you're really about. And I believe many people can relate to that.
00:04:53
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Their job is their life. Their career is their identity. That is very true. It's like you meet someone in a social environment and it can be, well, seconds before the question is asked, what do you do? What's your job? What's your career? Where do you work?
00:05:10
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And it is the way in which we define ourselves. But you know, it actually makes sense. Why? Because people believe it's lack of fantasy or lack of creativity. No, it's not.
00:05:24
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If I start asking you deeper questions, what happens? We're automatically going on to a deeper layer of personality. And believe me, Michael, most people try to prevent that as if the devil would walk away from holy waters.
00:05:42
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That's why it stays, especially with men, on that superficial level of career. And since most men are used to that career talk, whatever they do, you know, they can be a carpenter, they can be a CEO, it doesn't matter.
00:05:56
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You always find common ground. So we became basically a common and understanding that we do not have to go deeper than career and we can actually say we know each other.
00:06:08
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And that's quite soothing for men. That's a, but I have never thought of it in that way before, but you are so right. It's worth giving some thought, yes. Yeah. And if one dares to ask a question about value or beliefs, pay attention how the other person reacts in the very first micro moment.
00:06:32
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It's almost like a shocker to the system. I had that experience. Yeah.
Creating Safe Spaces and Transformational Change
00:06:39
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It's shock to the system. And I had that experience not too long ago.
00:06:44
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a volunteer on a committee for organization and meeting some new members of that committee. One of them said to me, what is your hobby?
00:06:56
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And I was taken aback. It's like, what is my hobby? um Right. It's almost as if, you everybody else is asking, so what do you do for a living? What type of organization do you work for? All these sorts of things. And then to be asked,
00:07:09
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what is your hobby was almost um they crossed the barrier almost they'd asked me about me rather than my job and it's very disconcerting for a minute i should say quite what felt like an age and then i said well actually my hobby we went on and we had quite an interesting conversation because we were connecting as individuals rather than as job titles so now you can imagine how i felt when i learned I am not an executive coach and I'm not a business consultant.
00:07:45
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And my next question was, but you know, I love what I'm doing. And then the voice answered, now you get there. You love what you're doing. It's not what you are.
00:07:58
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It's what you are doing. It's not what you are being. You are not a executive coach. or a business consultant you are doing the work of a and i said okay now it's actually making fun so let's continue i said and then i realized hold on a moment that now really gets fascinating so i suddenly realized okay if i am not an executive coach and i'm not a business consultant and to be honest i did not like my work so much anymore at that moment because
00:08:38
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Picture this, Michael. People came to me. They had buckets full of holes. Of course, the water was running through. And basically what they asked me to do is to patch up some of the holes so the water wouldn't run out so fast.
00:08:57
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But when I told them, you know, but what about laying a new structure into that bucket? No, no, no, no, Marcus. It's just patching up the holes. That's enough.
00:09:09
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And I said, why the heck would I waste my time for that? Like I help people, let's say with, um, um, development or with, um, you know, reducing the, um, retention rate.
00:09:27
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And as soon as I walked away as a consultant, basically the whole company went haywire. Again, people left the company. They couldn't find the right people, despite of me having done a great job and implementing systems and methodologies and everything.
The Power of Stillness and Presence for Leaders
00:09:44
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And that's when I understood, stop, Marcus. It's worth asking, what did you really do with those people who became your clients?
00:09:56
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So they came to you for what they believed they needed. And they left which what they really needed. I used to phrase it, tell me what you want and I will advise you about what you need.
00:10:10
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Exactly. And that's when I began to understand what it was. You see, I said I didn't really like the executive coaching part so much or the business consultant anymore.
00:10:21
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Because that was something, i basically can do it my sleep. Most of my colleagues would agree, you can do it in your sleep. it's basically a copy paste in in in differentfferent colors.
00:10:34
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But what I really loved was working with the people on what they really came for. So what I did, Michael, I started talking with some previous clients and current clients, and I asked them very straightforward, what is it you really get when you meet with me?
00:10:55
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I was blown away, Michael.
00:10:59
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When I meet with you, Marcus, it is like entering a safe space where all the noise disappears, where I can just be myself.
00:11:14
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And sometimes for the first time here, my inner being talk with myself because all the noise disappears.
00:11:26
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Was that because you create this stillness? You see, in the beginning, i thought was creating stillness. But over time, i understood that this is my baseline.
00:11:41
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So even when I go back to childhood, people felt very safe with me. Grownups were sharing their problems with me. Back then i was you know, so-called accessing a universal library. So people told me, Marcus, you could not have known what you just said.
00:12:02
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So it must have come from somewhere else. So I used the term universal library. Or people shared something with me about a subject. I could not have had any subject knowledge, but I was able to give him an answer.
00:12:20
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or a solution or whatever, or made them think like you want to make your listener think. And back then I already realized there is something in me which is kind of unique, I would say.
00:12:38
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But then when I really started looking at what it really is and I understood there must be something that I'm doing which then became into what I am, and then it became my baseline. So I realized anyone who meets me steps into that sacred safe space and they cannot explain what happens.
00:13:04
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But I give you an example. Someone comes from a heated meeting with the executive team. They meet with me and all the noise stays outside.
00:13:18
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It's like they can meet themselves by entering into the presence. So basically, Michael, all I bring to the table and get me right, i don't want to diminish that at all because I think it's huge.
00:13:31
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All I bring to the table is presence. And presence enables the counterpart to go into complete stillness.
00:13:49
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And now you see where the human operating system architect comes from because I realized, okay, so if someone comes into that presence and starts seeing themselves as who and how they really are, that's when I realized, okay, now I actually can use all i learned before and much, much more in my 20 years of career and apply that once stillness has been installed.
00:14:24
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And that's what what my system was telling me back then, you are not an executive coach and you're not a business consultant and you will not do that business anymore. Until I had established stillness as the baseline, people entering the right chamber of their lives Because, you know, let me ask you a question, Michael.
00:14:49
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What is the emphasis of stillness for you? panlic And the cause of that is noise. It's noise. So imagine the baseline of a manager or a baseline of a leader has become noise.
00:15:05
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Simply. so i suppose in many ways then when you think about it until that panic has been the complete opposite there's a spectrum uh with panic and stillness at the two extremes but we're experiencing different levels of noise across the whole of the spectrum and that influences when it's constructive noise it influences our decisions as leaders
00:15:37
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And when it's oppressive noise, it clouds our decision making. Absolutely. So if we put the little picture on it, stillness, if you look at frequency, stillness is quite calm if you look at the sinus curve frame.
00:15:58
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And if you look at noise, it's disturbance. It's literally disturbance. Like if you look at a a cardiogram, for example, you know, of the heart and you have a natural cardiogram, it's a nice sinus curve up and down, up and down, up and down.
00:16:18
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So if you look at someone who has, you know, an ill heart, the extra cestoles and everything, there's just crazy how that picture looks like.
00:16:30
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And that's exactly how most people walk through life. That's why everyone is so stressed, Michael. That's why people can't find sleep.
00:16:42
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Because they can't find peace, they can't find stillness, they can't find sleep. Because the nervous system is basically on high alert constantly.
00:16:56
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And you know, now there are this crazy notion out there that it's all about fight and flight. And that has become the norm. That has become, Marcus, this is who human beings are.
00:17:11
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And I call BS on that. This is not how we are constructed. This is how a society defined itself to make the craziness we're living become normal.
00:17:29
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because there are no answers apparently to get out of that craziness, which I call hamsters in a hamster wheel. But there is an antidote and it is stillness.
00:17:43
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And if we continue talking about it, you will see it's actually very natural. Well, most people then when you say stress, anxiety, all the noise that we have in our lives,
00:17:56
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what's the What's the starting point for trying to work out what stillness will look like for us as an individual? You know what's really interesting, Michael?
00:18:08
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Most people I encounter face one question, and that is, is this it? Or is there more to my life?
00:18:21
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It's a threshold. And is it the absence of an answer to that question which causes part of the noise? And when people have answered that question for themselves, that's where they start to find the silkt the stillness that you had when you arrived in America, those two questions.
00:18:43
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Is that the starting point for finding your version of stillness? Let's look at it metaphorically for moment. Picture an inner being in you that goes along all the BS.
00:19:01
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And the BS, by the way, is nothing else than us adapting to society. And that probably starts at the age of four, or five, six years old, the latest. So that little being walks along with you for all your life.
00:19:16
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And it suddenly looks at the damage that adaption has taken place in your life. and all the joy you missed out and all the life that has been forfeited because of that BS.
00:19:30
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And it suddenly says to you, you know, Michael, this cannot be it. And you hear that. And when you hear that for the first time, it's like a wee little noise. And then it comes into a voice.
00:19:47
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And then it becomes louder and louder and louder. Depends how fast you hear. And in the end, it becomes a bullhorn. And in my case, it ended with a diagnosis by a cancer doctor who said, sir, you don't have cancer, but if you continue with that pace, it takes probably a couple of months and you'll be paralyzed in a wheelchair.
00:20:11
Speaker
And what he did not understand it had nothing to do with stress because he thought you know i was a senior vice president of an international company and he thought i was overworked and i knew instinctively no no no i work smart but i don't work hard so it was the inner disturbance where my inner being said you know what marcus if you continue this way You are actually going to kill what is instinctive and what is intuitive.
00:20:49
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And I can not let that allow. That was my my first warning. So we're talking then really about stillness, i suppose.
00:21:02
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It's a bit like if you try to be something that isn't natural for you, you will never achieve stillness. But if you are living in harmony with yourself, with your environment, you're more likely to be able to identify stillness.
00:21:19
Speaker
That is almost like the second step. So the first step is very simple. So for everyone who listens, if you hear that voice and that question, is this as good as it gets or is there more?
00:21:33
Speaker
Do one thing, literally say to yourself, what if there is more? Good question. And then continue and then continue because that's when you start going into a dialogue with yourself.
00:21:48
Speaker
What if that is more? Yeah. What if there is more? That's the question. What if there is more? And then you just leave open because, you know, imagine We talked about the three, four, five year old kid.
00:22:05
Speaker
Back you had what I call the executive functions readily available. You had creativity, you had fantasy, you had curiosity.
00:22:16
Speaker
You had basically every single thing you could have imagined you had readily available. And the beauty is you have not lost it despite of how it looks in many people's lives today.
00:22:32
Speaker
But the thing is, adaption has caused us to focus almost entirely on our mind. And the mind is nothing else than basically filled by information from outside.
00:22:46
Speaker
And then people say, yeah, but you know, you could rely on your heart. The heart is probably the least thing we understand. And some people even say the feeling takes place in your brain. You know, I would say physiology it's physiologically it's true.
00:23:02
Speaker
So, but there is a part that is kind of almost gone missing. And some people call it soul. Some people call it intuition. Some people call it whatever you want to call it.
00:23:15
Speaker
But everyone, Michael, from time to time senses that part. That's when you say, I've never really thought of it like this way. Or I've never looked at it this way.
00:23:31
Speaker
Or where did that thought come from? And interestingly enough, people look out into the universe and it's not in the universe. It's in the part of you that has gone disconnected, but not fully.
00:23:50
Speaker
And it wants to get into communication, into communion with you again. You see, life basically is so simple. It takes grownups to make it complex.
Mind-Heart Coherence and Spiritual Connection
00:24:04
Speaker
And I learned that as a little child. I can get that. with silk we do overcomplicate life, which should be fairly straightforward and, uh,
00:24:15
Speaker
simple thing to what to live. So yeah, I totally get that we overcomplicate it. And you know, speaking of stillness, stillness basically means that safe space enables you to put out or keep out all noise from outside.
00:24:37
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So the brain, the mind, and your heart go into coherence. And that's where most philosophies start. That's nirvana.
00:24:48
Speaker
And I realized, no, that's not it. There is more. The more is heart and mind going to coherence opens the channel for what some people call soul.
00:25:03
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And when that happened, my job is basically done. All I need to do is to keep that space safe, get out of the way, and only facilitate that safety.
00:25:19
Speaker
It sounds fascinating. And get the feeling that we're only just sort of like looking at the very smallest part of it
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:25:29
Speaker
at the moment. There's so much more to learn from it.
00:25:33
Speaker
Marcus, it is fascinating. And I really do appreciate your time and your help in making in helping me make this very interesting episode of the independent minds thank you very much pleasure thank you for having me thank you i am michael mill ward the managing director of abecida and i have been having a conversation with the independent mind marcus newcomb you can find out more about both of us by using the links in the description if you have experienced technical challenges whilst listening to This episode of the Independent Minds, you will want to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:26:14
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:26:29
Speaker
I am sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Marcus and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:41
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. You'll probably want to share the link with your friends, family and work colleagues as well. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think.
00:26:57
Speaker
but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.