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The Solution Mindset – a conversation with author Nir Bashan
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Learn how to master the art of problem-solving and creativity
The ability of a company to be creative in the way it solves problems has a direct impact on the level of success that company achieves. So why aren’t more companies and other organisations working harder at being more creative?
That is the question Nir Bashan, author of The Solution Mindset and Michael Millwarddiscuss in this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds.
Michael and Nir discuss
- How creativity is part of our DNA yet as we get older, we lose our creativity.
- How we can regain our creativity
- The role language plays in facilitating creativity
- The lack of creativity in creative industries
- Balancing creativity and analytics
- The most important stages in being creativity
- Being creative when your boss is not interested in creativity
- The creativity snowball
- How managers can effectively manage creativity
This is the podcast that empowers you to be more creative, and more successful for yourself, your team and your organisation.
Discover more about Nir and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Books by Nir Bashan at Amazon
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Transcript
Zencaster Overview
00:00:05
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Made on Zencaster. Because Zencaster is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to all of the major platforms.
00:00:16
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Zencaster really does make making podcasts so easy. Visit zencaster.com using the link in the description. It has a built-in discount.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abyssaida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
Meet Nir Bashan
00:00:46
Speaker
Today I'm going to be finding out about the art of problem solving from Nir Bashorn, the author of The Solution Mindset, Mastering the Art of Problem Solving.
00:00:58
Speaker
Nia worked in Hollywood for years and then many more years in advertising. And now he helps employees become more creative and innovative at work. Nia is based in Orlando, Florida, but more of that in the moment.
00:01:12
Speaker
He's got some interesting hobbies. He's one of those people who thinks that he's funny. So we maybe get some jokes from him today. He also loves his dogs. So he's probably posting videos on what his dogs are
Nir's Background and Interests
00:01:23
Speaker
doing. But the interesting thing is that he's um originally from Israel, spent most of his life in North America, but for some strange, weird reason, he is a West Ham United fan. I aren't.
00:01:39
Speaker
We are going to find out why and how that came about. But like I say, Nir is based in Orlando, Florida, where the theme parks are. That may or may not be important, but it did strike me that those theme parks are built on entertainment empires like Disney and Warner Brothers, which thrived because of their creativity.
00:01:58
Speaker
I have, like many British people, visited those theme parks. When I go again, i will make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:02:14
Speaker
You can also access those trade prices on travel by joining the Ultimate Travel Club. There is, as you would expect, a discounted link in the description. Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds.
Podcast Philosophy
00:02:30
Speaker
That will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to. As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
00:02:44
Speaker
Hello, Nia. How are you, sir? I am extremely well, thank you very much. And I hope that you can say the same. Yes, I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. What a cool podcast. I've listened to the last few episodes and I'm honored to be on.
00:02:58
Speaker
Thank you very much for but for saying that. I really appreciate any any sort of feedback that we get that's positive because ah I do consider myself quite the amateur at this. But before we get into anything to do with creativity, I am sorry, but there is that question of West Ham.
00:03:17
Speaker
How did that come about? Are you asking for the misery component? Yeah. It doesn't matter which soccer team, I spoke American there, or which football team you support in the old English, but you know you've always got this element of misery about being any supporter of any sports team. But how did you end up as a West Ham
Nir's Passion for West Ham United
00:03:40
Speaker
supporter?
00:03:40
Speaker
So I've been West Ham for, gosh, since 2001, 2002, when one of my favorite players, Yossi Benayun, came over and played at West Ham. And i was like, wow, this is an amazing team. I like this ah i like this football team.
00:04:00
Speaker
And now my dad's a supporter. I watch every game. I'm a bit of a fanatic. My license plates, I'll say WH United or... you know, West HM and ah lifelong fan. Love the club, love everything about it and go Irons.
00:04:20
Speaker
Have you ah been to see a game at the former Olympic stadium? I have, yes. And and they they just did a U.S. tour here. and And it's incredible. There's a lot of American fans of West Ham. It's really nice. I think Billy Ho kind of started it, right? The golfer. ah And so, you know, people are more and more aware of how mighty, fantastic and great the irons are.
00:04:49
Speaker
Right. Well, I'm from the north of England, so we don't say much about those southern clubs. So let's move on. Who do you follow? Well, I'm in one of those parts of the north of England that is more rugby than football. Got it.
00:05:04
Speaker
But um yeah I have a Leeds postcode, so I suppose Leeds out of local loyalty would have to be my club, I suppose. There we go. Liners. Leeds United, the Peacocks.
00:05:18
Speaker
Right. um they Now, um so many questions I could ask a but about what you've just said, but and including the registration numbers on your on your cars, you said liberal, right? So you are an American, I suppose. But anyway, tell me how you got interested in creativity.
Creativity in Business
00:05:39
Speaker
So I looked around and I saw that Consistently over my career, you know I used to run advertising agencies back in l LA. I used to you know have been manufacturing and I noticed every single career, every single path, every single business that does incredibly well is always more creative than not creative. And it got me interested in learning about it, um mastering it, and then finally teaching others how to do it.
00:06:08
Speaker
made me think there where you successful businesses are more creative than the competition. And I suppose if you don't have some creativity in what you're doing, you're doing the same as everyone else. The only thing you can compete on is price. And that means you're going to go to the to the the lowest possible price which and lower your price the less money you make.
00:06:31
Speaker
But if you are creative and you can demonstrate something that is different and special, unique, call it whatever you want, you can You can actually put your price up. Yeah, 100%. So when you tap into your innate creativity, and we did research on it, it's incredible. i just i'm publishing a book, Wiley, called The Solution Mindset. And basically, we found that there are something like 27 28 genes, Michael,
00:06:58
Speaker
in our DNA that have been isolated that only let us as human beings become creative. That is what those genes are. So our creativity, the Nate to who we are, it's literally a part and parcel of our humanity. And,
00:07:15
Speaker
So many people have stopped using it. And my job in life is to get people re-engaged and re-energized to become more creative, right? It's not about, you know, the lowest common denominator and starting a business that, you know, competes on price. This is competing on a whole different level so that you can, you know, realize amazing potential, both at work and beyond. So if creativity is in our DNA, why is creativity such a problem for people?
00:07:45
Speaker
I think we have it beaten out of us as we get older. So there's a famous NASA study that they that they repeat every 10 years, 15 years or so with a large cohort. And it's basically a study where they give five, six-year-old paperclips and they tell them, oh, you know, you need to use these paperclips to come up with some solutions.
00:08:05
Speaker
What kind of solutions? you guys tell us right so the kids play with the paper clip and they come up with amazing ideas right one kid builds a spaceship with it one kid like oh this is a a sleeping pod you know i got 100 paper clips and i could sleep inside it and they have all these amazing ideas right you give that same paper clip to somebody in high school and all of a sudden they're like dude this is a paper clip who cares and And it's even worse when you when you go to college, heaven forbid, and MBA school, you give an MBA candidate a paperclip, they're like, what the hell is this? you know I have $110,000 of school debt every year. I don't care about the paperclip. you um i need ah I need a job.
00:08:48
Speaker
And so what happens is we're all born creative and we deteriorate as we get older. My mission is to help people reclaim that creativity once and for all so that they can use it to solve problems that seem unsolvable.
00:09:07
Speaker
So we've all got this creativity. It is beaten out of us through society, through parents, through school, through colleagues in classrooms, teaching. the old Conformity is what it's all about.
00:09:20
Speaker
How do we get people to be more creative?
Balancing Creativity and Analytics
00:09:23
Speaker
What's the sort of process that that you would suggest? Definitely. So we're we're in love with the analytics. What has happened is we love things that we can represent in numbers. And it's great. I mean, I love the analytics. I'm on Excel all day. The the problem is is, that if we don't balance the analytics with creativity, Michael, we're forever, you know, fast.
00:09:45
Speaker
at 50% of our capacity. So there's a ton, a ton of things that you can do to recapture that creativity. I talk about 10 of the most powerful things that I've found in my new book, The Solution Mindset. Basically, it's things like just starting, hitting the start button on an idea that may or may not work. It's using a filter, learning how to filter out good ideas from, you know, maybe so not so powerful ideas. It's not being afraid to fail. It's looking at problems and saying, you know what, I'm going to make mistakes. It's about using simplicity and how our language affects our creativity. Anyway, it's it's stuff that we can really use, actionable items that we can really use every day. And the result simplicity. incredible boosts of creativity.
00:10:41
Speaker
I'm not going to disagree with you because I do agree with you. they do. But I'm thinking about how the world is going at the moment and how everyone seems to be getting on the artificial intelligence bandwagon. yeah And yet yeah I'm no technical expert on that, but my understanding is that a large part of artificial intelligence It's not about being creative, it's about doing what has been done before.
00:11:09
Speaker
The AI will tell you what has happened before. It will search the internet and find something that answers your question, but it it won't help creativity.
AI and Creativity Limitations
00:11:21
Speaker
When you talk about algorithms, I do agree with you, we are almost trapped in this, what what's happened before, what's happened before. I spoke to someone else from Hollywood a little while ago whose creativity had died in in Hollywood because what the studios look for is a ah winning franchise, winning format that's making money and then they want the sequels and the prequels and the...
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's all what what do we know that already works that we can do again and getting out of that, that cocoon of safety. it worked before. So it must work again. It seems to be one of those mountains that um you're going to have to get people over.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah, they try to hedge their bets, right? They they try to look at what has worked before to predict what will look in the future, what will work in the future. That is not a creative recipe. That's an analytics recipe. Sometimes that works and sometimes it fails shockingly. Look at the industry as a whole, right? There has never been lower movie theater attendance than we have today.
00:12:26
Speaker
There have never been less of a variety of movies offered. They've literally killed their own industry. So when looking at things from an analytic perspective only, you get pretty much what Hollywood is today. When you look at things balanced with creative and analytics, you get some of the greatest industries that we have.
00:12:49
Speaker
that we have. And I agree with you, AI is at best a snapshot of the past. It's impossible for AI to give you creative and innovative thoughts. The way you use AI has to be creative and innovative in order to get kind of different ah feedback from the machine that you can use to to make new ideas with.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yes. And when you talk about the machine to make new ideas with, there's these different tasks or stages that people can go through, which you've outlined
Taking Initiative at Work
00:13:23
Speaker
in your book. If people want to know them all, they're going to have to buy the book.
00:13:27
Speaker
But what's your favorite stage of this creativity process, the solution mindset? What's the favorite stage? Oh, man, I have i have so many. ah But I think... Was that like asking you which which is your favorite child or which is your favorite dog?
00:13:42
Speaker
Or my favorite dog. Or my favorite player in West Ham. Come on, you ironed. At the time of this recording, we're in 20th place. So if anybody wants to email me like, oh, are you a real fan? Yeah, we're dead last, okay? So I'm in.
00:13:58
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. One of my favorite things that we can do is just start. And what it is is, a tool that just dives you in. And literally speaking of diving, I followed a friend of mine named Tino on Benicott, who has as a teenager surf the same spot that he's been surfing his whole life out in Tahiti.
00:14:23
Speaker
And one day he shows up and there's no surf. So him and his friends dive in and they find that the reef is just kind of bleached over. Right. What's going on with this reef? So he runs home like all of us would and he Googles it. And, you know, he's got a bunch of ideas on what to do. So he meets with the local island scientists, you know, some of the best marine biologists in the world. And they're like, dude, you're 16.
00:14:46
Speaker
You need to go to school. You need a marine biology undergrad. Then you need to do graduate school. Then you need to do a dissertation. Then you need to do PhD school. Come to see us in 10 years and then we could try some of your ideas.
00:15:00
Speaker
And he told them, guys, I love science and and I really respect what you guys do. But I got to try this. And today he owns the biggest coral restoration company on earth called Coral Garden.
00:15:14
Speaker
And some of these very scientists that he met with when he was younger, Now work on his team. So what Tito taught us is just to start. If you have a good idea, dive in. He literally took a piece of rope. He didn't know what he was doing. He made a bunch of mistakes, but he learned through those mistakes. And it's one of my favorite things tell people. I speak to attendees at conferences all year, ah different you know associations, companies. And I tell them, you have that idea. It's been floating around your head. What's preventing you from starting it? And usually it's, oh, you know, we're afraid that it might fail or, oh, you know, maybe it's not as flushed out as I thought. And I tell the story of Tito on and I tell the story of how incredibly successful he is. He's replanting coral now all over the world. Amazing stuff. I mean, you know, literally fixing what is broken with creativity. It sounds as if the most important part of starting is not asking for permission.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That is the bit, you if you are a student and you have an idea and people tell you not to do it and you can do it and you end up with a successful business, that's fantastic. But for a lot of people, they'll be in and in an organization, an employee, They'll see something that they're told to do and know that there is a better way of doing it.
00:16:39
Speaker
The better way of doing it is not something that they can necessarily do without permission.
Creative Problem Solving in the Workplace
00:16:44
Speaker
So what sort of hints, tips have you got for getting that done? notness how do How do somebody in a different type of situation get to start when they don't ask for permission? But you do need you need people on side to try it out, don't you? Michael, it's a really good question. i just left the Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri.
00:17:08
Speaker
I did a keynote for a banking association with middle level managers and, and, uh, very few leadership. And this topic came up. What do we do if we're not the boss, right? How do we, you know, how do we become creative? So I have a technique that's somewhat controversial.
00:17:27
Speaker
And then we like controversy. Right, right. Yeah. And it is really about doing the same assignment twice. Now, I get a lot of belly aching.
00:17:38
Speaker
I get a lot of moaning. i get a lot of near. I'm already triple booked all day. I have zero time for anything. And I'm getting burnt out. yeah But what I tell people to do at work that aren't necessarily in a leadership position is let's say your your boss or somebody assigned you an assignment, right? The assignment is to write up a report for you know this quarterly thing, whatever.
00:18:01
Speaker
And you know you always have to put that pie chart in there and you hate the pie chart. You always put in this, you know you hate that, right? So i I challenge people to carve out another half hour. We all have it.
00:18:14
Speaker
Just got to carve it out. And sit there and duplicate the assignment. Do one assignment the way you were asked, Michael, and then do the same assignment in the way that you would have done it, in the best way that you feel you could have done it. Listen, I've hired a thousand people in my career, Michael. I've i've been you know on both sides of the equation. I've worked since I was nine years old at Subway making sandwiches for you know for for for people. And what I've found is that Leadership needs solutions. If you're going to do the work twice, most bosses will look at that and go, cool, you did the assignment twice? Yeah.
00:18:54
Speaker
You know the pie chart that we usually use? I did this type of chart because I think it's better. Most bosses will look at that and go, that's amazing. Thank you for taking the time and the energy. What a cool idea. Let's use yours. Best case scenario. Worst case scenario is that they poop all over it and you know they go, man we're going to use it my way. But what have you done? You have not only provided a solution to a potential problem, but you've shown that you've taken initiative in order to do those two things. And at some point, Somebody will ask you, hey, you know, um how do you usually do these assignments? You go, oh, yeah, I do it this way, but this is a much better way. And that will spark something in them. And they'll go, wow, that's a really great idea. And that will lead to some type of path. it It's, you know, sometimes not clear, but it will lead to some type of path that will change your situation. But nothing will happen unless you take that action. And that's the advice I give somewhat controversially. to people who say, hey, I can't be creative because I'm under someone else.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yes, I can see what you mean. It's almost like you've got to be a little bit, give people what they ask for, but at the same time, do your own thing and demonstrate your creativity alongside that so that they can see both sides and they can see the savings. it Reminds me of a story that I heard about the oil industry where someone working in the headquarters of a big oil company was responsible for managing the oil company's money. And the company had decided that it would take all of its money at the end of the banking day and put it into a current account, which didn't earn any interest.
00:20:37
Speaker
And the guy who was responsible for managing the money said, this doesn't make sense. We need to make it earn money overnight. And they said, no, this is what we do. This is what we do. And it came around to the time of year where they were going to discuss pay rises with him. So he went into the office to discuss his pay rise. And he said, yep I don't want a pay rise.
00:20:58
Speaker
I don't want a salary anymore. All I want you to do is to give me permission to put the money into an account overnight that will earn interest. And I will have the interest that that money earns overnight as my salary.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah. And they went like, yeah, fine. I laughed at him. It lasted about a week. Yeah. and hu At least that's how the story goes. They realized just how much money he was making as a result of that one little decision. to so to be creative first, to think about, look at a situation and think about it and come up with a solution, but then also be creative about how you share that solution with other people. And then the other thing is being brave to share it with other people as well. A hundred percent, hundred percent.
00:21:49
Speaker
Mustn't underestimate that this is actually something that needs you to step outside your comfort zone and think about your own work and how your own work interacts with other people.
00:22:00
Speaker
You also mentioned, though, that once you've demonstrated your creativity and your solution, and I suppose you have to bear in mind that whereas you've had an idea,
00:22:11
Speaker
your idea may not actually work, but if it does, you're talking about creating a ah ah snowball effect almost. You sort start it rolling and it it gets bigger and bigger and more and more people get involved in being creative as well. So you're the start of that sort of cascade of sharing of creativity.
Cultivating Team Creativity
00:22:31
Speaker
And then that almost links into like, how does a manager manage creativity themselves, you know, with a team of creative people? Yeah, it's ah it's a contagious snowball effect, right? So you start doing your assignments twice, right? I'm i'm a you know a banker somewhere in the Midwest. you know I'm not the boss of the place, but I started doing these assignments twice. And then you know your coworkers in the booth next to you are starting to go, yeah, I got a few ideas. And all of a sudden, right, it's an energy and a contagious snowball. sort of environment that takes over and everybody's starting to execute things in new and different ways. It's about an evolution, not a revolution. it's not about changing everything. Like you said earlier, it's not about, you know, the first time you hear of change.
00:23:21
Speaker
is when you're getting fired or something like that. People are so afraid of that word, but I mean, it's something that is an everyday part of our lives and being on top of it and doing that work yourself to prepare for the eventuality of the industry changing. Every industry changes, doesn't matter what it is that you do, positioned you to best ride out the storm. Yes, I think you hit on a very important point there. Change is inevitable in every organization. there's There's no standing still because someone else is coming up behind you. So you've got to be thinking about the future and preparing yourself for it and being willing to change.
Embracing Change Creatively
00:24:08
Speaker
The organizations and the individuals who don't welcome those opportunities are those that are damaged by change processes because they're not willing to engage with them. 100%. The engagement is where you've got your creativity and being creative. Even if that, I suppose, is from a negative perspective. So you can be creative in a way of saying, we're going down this route, but I believe another route would be better.
00:24:38
Speaker
You've got to have all your information, haven't you? Yep. Yep. I've found nothing that has worked more consistently, both in solving problems on earth, like what Tito One's doing with our coral reef or solving problems at work than being willing to be part of who you are as a human being.
00:24:58
Speaker
getting back to a little bit of creativity and innovation and in your day-to-day process so that you can be happier.
00:25:09
Speaker
You can live more balanced. You can be a better version of yourself. Look, analytics are easy, right? You could, oh, you know, you got two problems wrong on that math test. You got an A, right? Because 100 minus two still 98. That's an a But life is far more nuanced than you know a mass quiz or something that you do in school that is evaluated on an analytic scale. There's all kinds of things like empathy and the respect that you have, ah the love between a person and a particular brand or a football team like West Ham United.
00:25:45
Speaker
Come on, you irons. There is certain things that cannot be quantified by numbers, yet they have a deep effect on the bottom line.
00:25:55
Speaker
Now, any organization, company, staff member, employee, leadership person that is not embracing those things, Michael, I mean, you're you're like leaving money on the table.
00:26:06
Speaker
That is a very important point. you know At the end of the day, whilst all of this might be very nice and people can talk about it in terms of it's in a book, it's theories and all this sort of stuff, it's not just theories, it's in practice. And those people that engage with creativity and the opportunities that it delivers will see money on the table that they can pick up rather than just see it and leave it. It's inspiring. I am looking forward to finding out more about your work and yeah I heartily recommend that people take a look at your book as well. But for today, Nia, I have thoroughly enjoyed myself and learnt a lot. Thank you very much.
00:26:49
Speaker
Thank you. this This has been fun. Thank you. i am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. In this episode of The Independent Minds, I have been having a conversation with Nir Bashan, the author of The Solution Mindset, Mastering the Art of Problem Solving.
00:27:07
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. There is a link in the description alongside links to opportunities to purchase Nir's book. Before you engage in any change process, I suppose, it's always a good idea to make sure that you're fully equipped to deal with it. And that part of that means being healthy. So that's why we recommend that people use the health tests that are available from York Test, especially the annual health test. York Test provide an annual health test that has 39 different assessments, including cholesterol, diabetes, various vitamin levels, organ functions, the list goes on, and all very important. The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist, who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests are carried out in a UK AS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory. You can access easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes with a bit of creativity anytime by your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and as you would expect a discount code in the description.
00:28:19
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Nia and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:31
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, some of which I would like to invite Nia to come back again and talk to us, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.