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Packers vs Steelers Review Jordan Love Breaks Steelers Curse, Overcomes Rodgers Shadow
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Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! we break down the Packers victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers! we take a look at the Fresh, mention the stale and throw out the moldy! make sure to like and subscribe wherever you get your favorite podcasts! also be sure to check out all our great merch at ope-shop.fourthwall.com
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Transcript
Intro
Packers vs Steelers: Fan Reactions
00:00:48
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ohana Packers Edition podcast where the Packers have successfully defeated some demons and knocked off the Aaron Rodgers led Pittsburgh Steelers.
00:00:59
Speaker
it It is the definition of that meme, the the the they had us in the first half not gone live meme. But as I'm joking with my dad and my brother who are both Steelers fans, all the things they're saying now at the end of the game, trust me, I was saying all of those at halftime. So like.
Game Analysis: Packers Performance
00:01:18
Speaker
There's going to be some nitpicks, some complaints, because that's what we do on this show. you know we try to tell the truth through everything. But overall, like... Joe is fucking through a cold right now, but we are over the moon because the this team, you know, it's all about setting yourself apart from the rest of the pack. And in a league league year where no one is doing anything great, Green Bay just has to keep stacking up wins. And there's going to be some LaFleur shots. There's going to be definitely some McManus shots and stuff in here. But...
00:01:49
Speaker
overall i i am so proud of how this team came out in the second half and just responded to a lot of adversity granted a bunch of its itself self-inflicted but that's the name of the game in the nfl you've got to be able to roll with the punches and throw some back and this team finally did so really happy to see it for sure i mean This was definitely one that was a question mark on both our ends and when we were doing our season predictions because, you know, how is the old man going to look? How is the offense
Handling Adversity: Key Players Shine
00:02:23
Speaker
going to look? How is the defense going to look?
00:02:26
Speaker
How are they going to handle TJ Watt, all that stuff? And it it does seem like that they handled it pretty good. What was it? There was only a couple of pressures, but Love really wasn't sacked, was he?
00:02:40
Speaker
No. No sacks for Jordan. You know, he had some... absolute last minute dump offs and things like that. a couple of plays where he probably was, a you know, understandably a little jittery. Things weren't great early.
00:02:54
Speaker
Collinsworth made a point to point out how often Love was getting knocked around in the backfield there. There's a there's a comment coming on that later as well. But like like I said, like i was saying on last week's show, the thing that Jordan does, I think, better than Rogers does at this point is And you know you can never tell how this is going to play out, but Jordan's poker face that you know the that he has like the the he has the heart rate of but of a tortoise kind of thing, it it plays so well in these kind of moments where
00:03:29
Speaker
Nothing's going right. Jordan was honestly one of the few things that was consistently working well on offense through the first half. you know Tucker has an amazing drive and play in the next drive, and then he drops a crucial third down kind of thing.
00:03:41
Speaker
you know You had two rough reception attempts by Dobbs on third downs, missed blocking assignments, drops.
Jordan Love's Impact on Team Confidence
00:03:50
Speaker
you name it and jordan just you know he kind of has that just same stone-faced expression and i know some people are like oh you want to see more out of him on a down-to-down given stance but at the same time it's like I want the quarterback who's not going to show how pissed off, irritated, upset, or just down in the dumps he is kind of thing. Like, there if you've never played the game, I cannot tell you how much of a difference it makes when you look at that quarterback when he comes in the huddle and it's like, all right, it's it's Jordan. Like, you know, yeah, of course, like every now and again, I want to see some more fired up. But like, it sucks when that guy comes in the huddle and just looks dejected off the bat. And this is another one in a long,
00:04:32
Speaker
a long line of instances where you know he just comes in and has just he's just has stones dude like he was getting pushed around shoved around got knocked down quite a few times i don't have the quarterback hit numbers on me but his jersey was dirty the whole night and didn't let it get to him he was just delivering the ball you know he he obviously got a little lucky here and there but I mean those are the breaks you need to win in this league consistently and it's not like they were living off of those at any point of the game you know he had the really the only play that really was lucky was the wobbler down the middle of the field to Watson where you know it I do think
00:05:16
Speaker
Collinsworth is right that he meant to float it over the safety that's dropping into the coverage zone, but he didn't want it to have dogsy dog ears like it did as JT O'Sullivan would call it. He calls him, you know, most of us call it a
Roster Decisions: Challenges Faced
00:05:28
Speaker
duck, a dying duck. yet But JT O'Sullivan calls it having dog ears. But you know those are the kind of plays where when it's your night it's those plays are getting completed he had some perfectly thrown you know he had some tight spirals in the first half that were dropped and so hey sometimes sometimes you've got to get the the soft toss ball you know the bocce ball that goes down the middle of the field sometimes that's the one that's gonna get caught and make a big play for you and
00:05:55
Speaker
The main thing for this game is that this team just kept, you know, it didn't look like it in the first half, but through the through halftime and into the second half, this team just kept on fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting.
00:06:07
Speaker
And that's the kind of resiliency that's going to keep winning you games as the season goes along.
Player Development: Growth and Expectations
00:06:13
Speaker
Speaking of fire, i I put this out there on on the socials, but, you know, being that these two teams really aren't, like, rival teams because they don't play each other all the time, what was with all the heat between the two of them? They seem to be, like, getting...
00:06:31
Speaker
into fights every other down. So, I mean, I love to see the energy, but it was just – it's weird. It's not like a Lions-Packers game or a Bears-Packers game. i think i think it's one of those where it just shows the respect that these two teams have for each of their quarterbacks because – the From the Steelers' point of view, I think they're like, let's get Rodgers that 30-second pelt to put on the wall kind of thing. And also, this team just got embarrassed on Thursday night football. And it's like, you can't go get punked 10 days ago and come and get punked at home this time and stuff.
00:07:05
Speaker
So I think you you combine those two points, and that's where Pittsburgh being chippy all night is. Plus, you've got a couple guys with, I mean, football players all have loose screws in their head, but DK is one of them that has several loose screws in his head. So that one wasn't too much of a surprise that at some point he popped off a little bit.
00:07:22
Speaker
And on the Packers side, for as much as, you know, we, a lot of Packers reporters have made the the point that only 13 guys of, I see true north. as As much as, you know, like Domovsky and stuff made the point that only 13 guys on the team actually played the last time when Rodgers was on the roster.
00:07:43
Speaker
And of those 13, I think I counted like basically eight of them were first year players, whether it was Nixon as a free agent addition or... what's it called, the rookie draft class that year or undrafted free agents.
00:07:55
Speaker
So you know it's like Rashawn played multiple years. Zach Tom barely played multiple. Oh, no, Zach Tom was a rookie. Rashawn played multiple years. Elton played multiple years.
00:08:08
Speaker
Barely McDuffie, because that was his second season was 2022. And then from there, like I said, it gets a little tough to like off the top of my head. I can't even do it right now. So yeah, like that just goes to show there aren't many ties, but in the same vein that the Steelers are looking at Rodgers and like, let's get him that 30-second pelt, everyone in the Packers org is like, we got to beat this guy. Like, you know.
00:08:32
Speaker
we don't want jordan or We don't want Aaron to have this over Jordan. you know all that This is probably the last time the two are going to play each other unless they meet in the Super Bowl kind of thing.
00:08:42
Speaker
So I do think there's a bunch of them a bunch of the guys on the team who are like, we're going to do that not not just for Jordan, but it's like that extra like you know when you're tired at the moment and it's like, we're going to do it for our quarterback kind of thing. And I think that's part of it.
00:08:57
Speaker
Part of the reason I'm a little disappointed in LaFleur taking so long to adjust in the first half is I was like, come on, come on, Matt. Like, you also need to prove that you can do it with anyone at quarterback. And not just anyone, the guy you handpicked to replace him kind of thing. So, but I think in the end, both sides of that played out for the Packers.
00:09:18
Speaker
And really, if you look at how this game flowed, It's the decision to start McManus that really almost sent this game off the skids in the first half because you go down, you take momentum. Before you on to your rant about McManus, why don't we go into our our are normal routine here? See, this is why this guy is the head honcho. I'm just here to be loud. and It's a moldy cheese. messed up. I hit the wrong one anyway.
00:09:51
Speaker
Fresh cheese. All right, we're going to get Joe going. We need to get Joe's points in in case we lose him later on in the podcast. If I pass out, just just grave remember, i Mike gets everything.
00:10:07
Speaker
that oh So I'm going to go with the first one, and it's the lowest of low-hanging fruit. It's got to be Tucker Craft.
00:10:18
Speaker
That guy has been amazing. I'm not sure. I believe he's eligible for an extension or is it next year he can and get get his extension? Because I know it's like the third year.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, i think the third year they can start talking extensions. Yeah. the the The history for the Packers is they generally try to sign guys either November or later of the third season or in the offseason between third and fourth season, given that there's no injury.
00:10:52
Speaker
gets a little dicey with, like, Elton, who got injured in his third season and stuff like that. So, yeah, you know, Guy was a beast. Even went out for what was it? was like play It wasn't even a play or anything like that.
00:11:08
Speaker
They had just finished up their drive, and then he set out for the defensive drive and came back in, and he wouldn't have thought anything was wrong with him.
00:11:24
Speaker
I'm trying to get my stats up here. Seven receptions, 143 yards, two touchdowns on nine targets with a long of 59. Now, the one downside to what he did, obviously, he had the one that hit him in the hands the you know, should have been a catch but wasn't a catch.
00:11:43
Speaker
And that's really the only negative you can say out of him. After that, he was a whole new player. And he really went out there, gave it his all, you know burned down some childhood homes. you know Speaking of, go over to the Ope shop and take pity on a poor sick man and and buy some shirts. And you know like I said, I've said this before, he's got have been our best tight end we've had in a long time.
00:12:16
Speaker
This is like the best performance since Jermichael in the wildcard game against the Cardinals in terms of like just overall production in a single game. the If you just go by counting stats, the the like red herring in there is the Richard Rodgers, what's it called? Motor City miracle moment because he gets half the yards on the Hail Mary play and stuff like that.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think they showed that his... The most by a player in regular season was Richard Rodgers at like 146, and the most was Jermichael at 159, but that was in the playoffs. Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
So, yeah, I totally agree with you. like yeah The funny thing is he only got nine targets tonight, and you'd think that we we stuffed him with like a dozen or something at least, but just – Excuse me. Just a great game from Tucker. Like you said, he's the kind of guy who's probably going to be more bothered by that one-third down drop than any other play he made.
00:13:17
Speaker
But, like, from the big plays he had in the first half, you know, he has the touchdown on a perfect throw by Rodgers to beat Watts' outstretched hand. You have the the seam ball, basically a seam ball that he catches that should have set up a scoring opportunity before the missed McManus long field goal.
00:13:36
Speaker
And then he catches checks is the first YOLO ball. That was the other lucky play I forgot about. He catches the first YOLO ball from Rodgers. You know, some people are like, where's the OPI? I think the refs thought that ball got tipped or like was almost like a weird forward fumble.
00:13:54
Speaker
And so... what's it called so I think you know he kind of just boxed him out like a field goal like a like a rebound attempt in basketball but either way like he like you said outside of the one drop on that third down and the only reason you and I keep pointing at it was was probably the easiest catch he would have had out of the whole game like realistically everything else was a little bit more contested or wasn't as good of a pass and all that kind of stuff but You saw the whole Tucker Craft experience receiving, running after the catch. The fact that he just... I know Chuck Clark isn't anyone special, but your 260-pound tight end ran away from a safety on a slant route. like
00:14:34
Speaker
There was no double move. There was no real rub or like any sort of massive humanity that Clark had to get through. That's just a straight-up one-on-one coverage rep, and you just separated from a safety across the middle of the field. and That's the kind of stuff that makes him special.
00:14:49
Speaker
and And on top of it, you know, he gets injured on a run play, making a block where he kind of like lands on top of and under the pile and stuff. And luckily, I'm hoping it was just like he kind of got winded or maybe he got a little bit of a stinger or something like that.
00:15:05
Speaker
Maybe a Charlie horse. Who knows exactly? But like you said, he was... coming in he was gonna come in if the rogers thing was was a fumble and was correctly officiated as at least intentional grounding but he came in immediately on the ensuing drive and stuff so yeah like you said missed no time outside of the end of the previous packers drive so great day at the office from tucker and yeah that's one of the most guaranteed contracts like he'd have to
00:15:35
Speaker
do something absolutely hates yeah like something outside of football would have to happen for him not to get paid all the money and it and for everyone like wondering why haven't they done anything you know that Tucker is the guy that they are setting up from how they structured the Parsons deal to how loves contract is structured keeping a guy like Tucker is Keeping a guy like Tucker is exactly why they're set up the way they are, because he is the guy who's getting paid next.
00:16:07
Speaker
Thank you, True North, for rolling me into my... Before you get into yours, yeah I got to ask, when do we start giving Tucker the Chuck Norris treatment?
00:16:18
Speaker
Where, you know, instead of Tucker getting Charlie horses, he gives Charlie's horse a Tucker? He had to come out of the game, so so I can't give it to him tonight.
00:16:29
Speaker
but this one, we're going to, as much as I've talked up Jordan, mine is going to go to Quay Walker, who I thought had a pretty solid, like a pretty good game tonight.
00:16:40
Speaker
was active in the run defense got some pressures on aaron made the nice play up the seam in coverage but his most impactful play and you and i have talked about this since 2022 where ever since his last ejection against the lions where he oh he totally owned up to the moment he's admitted it was really childish really stupid of him to push the the training staff and you could see it on the kid's face walking up the tunnel walking up the lambo tunnel at the end of that game where you could see him talking to himself like what was that how did i do that why was i so stupid and you know lions fans like to like try and dredge that up he has had zero incidents since that point in time and whatever zen buddhist shit he's done since then
00:17:28
Speaker
i'm sure he was talking mad junk back to dk metcalf that helped push dk over the edge but he got not just the hand to the chip he got poked in the or dk tried to poke him in the eye or hook his lip or nose or whatever didn't do anything and then dk shoved him in the face still didn't do anything so good job quay walker like i said great job in between the whistles and great job after the whistle today just keeping a cool head but I don't think he gets enough credit for that role that he got on for that like four week time period late last season before he freaking boloed his ankle in Seattle.
00:18:10
Speaker
You know, we were wondering, is that really who he's going to be? Or is that just like, oh, he's getting a little desperate kind of thing. I am so glad that he has it has turned out that he is. that guy That guy is who he is.
00:18:23
Speaker
And that one, he's seen the light and has decided that he's going to play that way. But also, too, that Halfley also has acknowledged, like, this is what we have to do to get the best out of Kwe, and we're going to let him do it. And, you know, we might give up a few things here and there and stuff because we're a little more aggressive with him.
00:18:38
Speaker
But... it goes back to the whole like make mistakes at 100 miles per hour because sometimes you you'll turn those mistakes into other people's mistakes you know what i mean like maybe he's not supposed to blitz or not supposed to hit a gap but because he does it aggressively it forces a quarterback to dump the ball faster or it forces a back to cut into help and stuff like it doesn't always mean you're gonna make a it's when you know it's the whole thing with like guys jumping offside on defense and it's like just go run at the quarterback like at at that point you're not getting back all these offenses are too good at like quick snapping the ball every time it's it's the same as like why i hate when defenders jump at passes i'm like run through the quarterback like the chances of you tipping a pass on a good quarterback are very low and
00:19:25
Speaker
you're just opening yourself up to a bigger play by jumping. And so it's like, just do the thing you were doing already and just finish it. Like, so if you jump offside, just run and touch the quarterback or run and touch someone. Cause that's, that's, you're already getting penalized no matter what. Don't give up the free play kind of thing and stuff. So,
00:19:41
Speaker
But getting it back to Koei, he's just been playing so well this season overall. I don't give a shit what his PFF grade is. I don't care about that shit. he just His activity, his aggressiveness has really helped this defense at the times where it's looked like it's teetering a little bit.
00:19:59
Speaker
And I know he doesn't have like the flashy stats tonight like he did last week, but I thought that there were several moments where he brought an edge to this game and really helped out the defense.
00:20:11
Speaker
Well, can't say they're not too flashy. I mean, five tackles and two pass breakups. I mean, that's pretty solid for for what you're wanting out of the guy. Yeah, he didn't get a sack or anything, but he to my knowledge, I don't remember him rushing too much. He was more dropping, you know, staying back a bit.
00:20:35
Speaker
Edge rushed a little bit more, but I'm all for it. I've really been on Quay's side for a while. Yeah, he's made some mistakes, but you know he's gotten better with time. and We've said this.
00:20:50
Speaker
We've always held this through because we have more draft mind than anything. It's a draft and develop. and The thing about it is it's always the three-year rule.
00:21:00
Speaker
First year, they're learning how to play in the NFL. The second rule is learning how to play for the team. And the third is when they put it all together. And he's really started to put it all together. i i understand that they didn't – they held back his fifth-year option, but now you're starting to wonder, are they going to be able to sign him?
00:21:26
Speaker
because now he's starting to make him more money. So, you know, I hope they can keep him around because him and Edge have been a hell of a duo.
00:21:38
Speaker
And, you know, again, not to keep busting this, but, you know, drafting – or drafting – trading for Micah Parsons, you lost your two first-rounders, so you can't really replace him with a first-round pick going forward.
00:21:56
Speaker
So, you know, he's starting to prove that he's one of the better ones in the league right now. And you got to keep him around. <unk>s There's no doubt about it. he's You're going to take the good with the bad. He is going to have his moments where you're going to wonder, Quay, what the hell are you doing?
00:22:16
Speaker
not everybody's – you know, there's no such thing as a perfect player in the NFL. You've got – everybody makes a mistake. Yep.
00:22:26
Speaker
What else you got fresh?
00:22:28
Speaker
Sorry, I'm hacking up a log. I guess my next one I got to do is Emmanuel Wilson. I mean, he we all know what kind of player he can be, but he really showed it now.
00:22:42
Speaker
You also have to wonder what the rotation that they were having with him and Jacobs. And Jacobs, Cav is really starting calf is really starting to bug him now.
00:22:53
Speaker
I know he's, what, they took him off the injury report, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's still not feeling effects from it. But, you know, Emmanuel Wilson, i don't know if I would trust Emmanuel Wilson as like a true number one back, but as a running back cut by committee, I have no problems having him out there. he He's able to do it in both brushing and catching.
00:23:24
Speaker
So, yeah, i got to give him his props to today. Yep. i i think you know he's he's not special from like an athleticism standpoint or he's not a flashy player but i tweeted it during the game i appreciate it that if he if you're coming from an under center formation he's just gonna take off from deep back position and run at a line of scrimmage at full speed and there's value in that like some so many of his runs are the product of just
00:23:55
Speaker
Effort and leg drive. He's not doing... and you know He's not going to jump cut like a LaDainian Tomlinson or anything like that. He's not going to... He's getting better at setting up blockers and pressing the hole and stuff.
00:24:06
Speaker
But his best runs are when they run inside zone or inside dives. And it's just like, you set up seven yards behind the line of scrimmage. You start running full speed. Jordan's going to hand you the ball. And you just burrow your way for as many yards as you can. And I mean, that's how he converted the final third down of the game. is It's just like...
00:24:23
Speaker
the gaps in the right a gap hit it if you get it if you don't get it oh well the clock's running if you get it awesome game is over kind of thing and like i said he's gained i want to say like a third of his rushing yards just because he just runs you know like everyone's like oh you need to nuance you need to have acceleration and throttle in your running to set up blocks stuff He's the kind of guy where it's like, no, no, I'm just going to put my full i'm putting my foot through the floor and the throttle is all the way down and we're just going to drag people if we have to kind of thing. And, you know, some of those, and I do think that did dog Jacobs at points this game is because he's kind of like trying to set defenders up and stuff. And this field is so bad that it's like, you just got to make the first move. And it's like, and if you just have to hit the guy, you just have to hit the guy kind of thing. And
00:25:12
Speaker
ie I think Wilson deserves his flowers on a day where, you know, like you said, he kind of was like a... I think like I do wonder how much running they would have done if they didn't have like four three and outs in the first half but you saw it as the game went on where it's like you know 11 carries for 61 yards so five and a half a pop like no one wants to tackle that kind of guy in the fourth quarter of a game especially when you're already down a score or two so there's there's benefit to that and
00:25:42
Speaker
he's going to continue to have a role in Green Bay so long as, you know, Marshawn can't stay healthy or even if they draft another kid next year, they're going to rely on Wilson because he has turned into a very reliable player.
00:25:55
Speaker
My next one, I can't believe he's sat this long. It's Jordan. Like, what a game from Jordan. Like I said, he had a couple Yolo ball moments, you know, the the one to craft where he kind of just floats it out there.
00:26:07
Speaker
And then, like I said, I don't think he intended it to be, but because it wasn't the tightest spiral, the one down to the, like, five-yard line to Watson ended up being sort of a Yolo ball moment as well kind of stuff.
00:26:18
Speaker
But I tweeted it after the game that if you look at his stats – since everyone's comparing what he does in his career to Aaron if you look at his stats versus what Aaron did in the Super Bowl and I know the stage is different and all that kind of stuff but he pretty much matched Rogers stat for stat in terms of his passing production and Same thing kind of like Rogers. His stat line should have been better if there weren't like three drops, three bad drops in the mix too.
00:26:48
Speaker
So just such a good night. You know, the touchdown to Kraft, the but first touchdown to Kraft, he places that ball perfectly around Watt's outstretched hand. He has the late third down conversion to Dobbs where he puts it on the perfect arc over the top of the the late dropping corner into the flat zone.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know, the... The one Kraft drops, it's a perfect pass. What's it? Even the early one that Dobbs couldn't reel in down the sideline, that ball is just exactly where it needs to be.
00:27:19
Speaker
And then I think on top of it, he never lost a moment of like timing with watson him and watson are still very much on top of their a game together it's i'm so happy for christian to for question watson watson a christian christian to be back on the field today you know like Bears fans are forever to be like, oh, Caleb is 1-0 against Jordan Love in Green Bay.
00:27:46
Speaker
That game meant absolute shit nothing to the Packers once Watson went down. You could tell that they all, to a man, were kind of like, well, fuck There goes our chance.
00:27:57
Speaker
Like, I don't want to say the whole chance to beat Philly the next week, but the chance they had to make any sort of hay against the the Eagles in the wildcard round went out the window when Watson's knee disintegrated on the Lambeau turf that day on week 18 last season.
00:28:13
Speaker
And... The impact that he had on this game was absolutely immense. like I still wish they had taken a true deep shot to him early in the game. you know I do think it's a little weird to like have him and Golden out there. and I'll say it all the time. I love Dobbs.
00:28:29
Speaker
But I think LeFleur almost tried to like 4D chess it a little too heavily where it was like, well, they know that we're going to throw deep to Watson and Golden. So let's send Dobbs deep kind of thing. And it's like, that's great. But like Dobbs literally just converted a dig route into a 20-yard gain earlier. like I get that you have to cut against tendencies every once in a while, but LeFleur, sometimes just have your guys do the shit they're best at and like let your offense thrive. And you know this goes into the whole like having Jacobs try to run toss sweeps from shotgun, having Dobbs try to be either the deep threat or the guy who's got to like make two juke moves in like you know right off the catch to get separation, you know to make yards out of a short throw.
00:29:15
Speaker
like Don't overthink the game and I'm going to get out of the rant early for now. This isn't the time for it. But I'm going to kind of tie Watson into this one.
00:29:25
Speaker
Like, I didn't think he would have this kind of impact. I i thought that, you know, they were going to would hope they would throw him a a true deep ball at some point. Kind of like the the opening play of the 2023 Thanksgiving game in Detroit.
00:29:40
Speaker
just to kind of like you know put the fear of god into the defense that way kind of thing like to show like oh yeah he's not just a decoy he's really for real out here but for him to go out there go four for four on targets average over 20 yards of reception and make really three of the biggest plays in the game at a given point where you know he has what should have led to a field goal if our kicker wasn't yeah at halftime you know he has that nice catch on the sideline he has He catches the Yolo ball over the middle, and then he catches that crossing route later in the game to convert a first down for the offense.
00:30:18
Speaker
And he's just digging guys out in the run game on Wilson's 15-yard run. He's the guy that seals the edge defender inside. Wilson bounces that ball outside.
00:30:31
Speaker
like It's so good to have Watson back. and I am curious if we see them pare down the receiver snaps at this point.
00:30:42
Speaker
I do think it's going to stay a little bit spread out because Watson's definitely on some kind of snap count. And you can't, you know, I'm surprised he played as much and as well as he did on this turf in Pittsburgh. But,
00:30:54
Speaker
Overall, you can't over or understate how important Watson was to the game tonight. He he made a world of a difference. And ive seen some people make the point Tucker's impact is even it's multiplied by having Watson out there because any sort of bracket coverage, you can't put it over the top of them if Watson is out there.
00:31:13
Speaker
So super important for Watson to be back out there. And it just gives Pukki another guy to throw the ball to in any situation. Well, and you can throw Malik Heath in there because he was targeted three times, made three catches, and made some plays out there.
00:31:30
Speaker
That's why I would bring Watson back. and How do I say this? It's not lucky that Wicks is hurt, but it's fortuitous that they have Heath there to be able to fill in it fill in spots.
00:31:48
Speaker
But you wonder how that's going to go going forward because once watson's off his snap count once uh wicks is back back healthy you know is he going to be a healthy scratch going forward or what because that doesn't make sense with what he gives when he's out there But yeah, Jordan looked great.
00:32:15
Speaker
I was trying to look it up while you were talking, but I couldn't seem to find it. Is this the most he's thrown in a game? 360? 360? No, I want to say one of those Vikings, like the first Viking game last year. he I thought he hit, he's definitely hit 400. Okay.
00:32:33
Speaker
okay wasn't sure and i was trying to look it up i i know just a couple weeks ago it against cow the cowboys he hit three i lied it's only 389. okay oh but you know just to kind of hit a couple things here you know steelers like i said i've never had an issue with the steers i
00:32:58
Speaker
the only issue I've had with Rogers over the year is just more because he seems to not be all there in the head more than what he's gave to the Packers.
00:33:10
Speaker
And Bengals, at least we did something for you. I mean, other than, you know, beating you a couple weeks ago, I'm glad we could at least do something for you guys. But, but,
00:33:26
Speaker
Yeah, Jordan looked great make sure i think when he was given a chance, and I'm sure that's something we'll talk about in you know our our next couple of segments. But it showed that he can go out there and and be what we need him to be.
00:33:44
Speaker
Watson looks solid coming back. i I agree with you. He's going to be on some kind of pitch count. There's no doubt about it because with as quick as he's been back,
00:33:55
Speaker
But I'm still surprised that they're not using Golden as much, and we'll get into that a little bit. Because with those two that can burn, that's going to be the easiest way to set up a deep pass.
00:34:10
Speaker
But I did like how they did start...
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah, I guess you can give him that, but it was the same shit as always, you know, make the catch immediately go down. So got to give him that. But ever yeah, I just, I know this is going to rub a certain person the wrong way if he hears it But I don't see Watson being fully impactful for a while.
00:34:43
Speaker
I see him doing things like he did this game where he made a couple of great catches. You know, he had some solid blocks, but I don't see him for a bit anyway, for a few games, being the guy that's going to get, you know, 10 targets, 110 hundred and ten yards And whatever. he's He's going to be a contributor.
00:35:07
Speaker
He's just not going to be a major player for a bit. Yeah, it's just – I know what you're getting at. It's just not realistic to expect him to be playing like – not that any of the Packers receivers do, but – If they did, it would be unreasonable if they expect him to come off and play like 80 plus percent of the snaps, be targeted 10 times. That's just I think his return and the game he's had tonight, it's going to put unreasonable expectations on like how much he should be doing on a week to week basis because it's like, oh, my God, he looks that good on the first game back, blah, blah, blah, and all that kind of stuff. but it's like
00:35:43
Speaker
his knee disintegrated in january of this calendar year and some days are gonna feel good we don't know how we don't know if he's gonna wake up tomorrow and be like like it hurts kind of thing and stuff so i think uh people just do need to temper their expectations it's a really good sign that he came back today and you know he looked explosive at or he looked athletic I don't it's hard to say how explosive because this field is so bad but he was getting open downfield like if like I said if love threw a tighter spiral that might have been a touchdown to him on the play down the middle of the field because he had separation because he might have dropped the angle of it right right right so like I yeah obviously i would love to I would love for both of us to be wrong and
00:36:32
Speaker
Watson is just fine and like has, you know, 800 yards the rest of the season kind of thing. I just don't think that's realistic to put those expectations on him. And I do trust the Packers are going to like ease him back into a game, you know, a full complement of snaps and stuff like that.
00:36:49
Speaker
And, you know, the thing is, is that. He's just always been a guy who gets hurt kind of thing. And last year was different. you know He didn't have the hamstring issues. He really does seem to have sorted that out. But the thing you worry about is do other things catch up to him because of the knee injury and stuff like that, you know the the the rehab return to play from the knee injury and stuff. So you just hope that it he's able to stay healthy. He has no setbacks, no flare ups or anything like that.
00:37:18
Speaker
But what a return for him. And then do you have any more for tonight? Or i got one more. That's why if you're not going to hit it. Depending on what one you have, I kind of have two more. but Okay, go for it.
00:37:33
Speaker
Oh, okay. So mine is just going to be your two top paid edge rushers came through today. And okay i have one i wasn't expecting it because of how Rodgers gets rid of the ball.
00:37:47
Speaker
But they did do a good job where basically every play except for Carrington's pass breakup... they got pressure on any play where Rodgers tried to do a traditional drop pack pass, like anything where he was getting the ball out quick. like You know, there's nothing you can really do about that. You just, you know, the best things you can do there is like pressure the short passes.
00:38:06
Speaker
You get the hit on the short receptions like, you know, Bullard bringing down Firemuth really quick or things like that. Cooper bringing down Jalen Saunders out in the flat and stuff.
00:38:17
Speaker
But otherwise, or Jalen Warren Saunders was the other guy. But you you you just you you needed them to step up whenever it was a regular pass play and rogers was jittery as all hell tonight whenever it was a standard pass play like i said the only time he really got a pass downfield off on a regular play valentine broke it up in the end zone so like just really good to see that from your top two guys and and not just for them to pressure rogers but for them to get production out of it and to turn that into three sacks and i'm really happy to see that both rashaun and micah are getting you know rewarded for their efforts so to speak because
00:39:02
Speaker
Micah especially has done a whole lot of work for no counting stat. You know, as much as you, me, and a lot of people appreciate how important pressuring the quarterback is and QB pressures, QB hits are, there is a point where it's like you do need to turn those into sacks or they're kind of like, yeah, buts.
00:39:18
Speaker
like and And especially because we're not getting a ton of interception opportunities on the back end either. So really good to see those opportunities turned into sacks tonight.
00:39:29
Speaker
and And that's basically what I was going to say. They they did a great job of getting Micah lined up all over the place. they Rashawn was getting pressure.
00:39:45
Speaker
Edge was getting pressure. All that stuff was going great. So, yeah, I don't have really much more to add to that. i' I did think of another one, so I'm going to throw it out there real quick. Carrington Valentine.
00:39:57
Speaker
For a guy that was getting like no reps the last couple of weeks, he stepped up covering DK Metcalf, was having a game, hell of a game, to the point where another one another fresh take that I can throw out there, which is probably going to be a non-Packer take, is Aaron Rodgers was good.
00:40:20
Speaker
And Carrington played well enough that Rodgers veered away from him and targeted Nixon. And you can put those two together as a fresh take.
00:40:32
Speaker
and And so that that's where I got to go with it. Carrington played solid tonight.
00:40:40
Speaker
so I mean other than that like I said I think we've touched all the bases and and then just to highlight it again just I'm so proud of this team for fighting back the way they did in the second half like that's long been a thing and that's long been a point of contention with this team like oh do they care enough do they you know they're trying hard enough all that kind of stuff They could have either rode over and died or fought back to get back in the game. And it was really good to see them come back guns blazing in the second half.
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess we can yeah move on to the next one. let me Let me see if I hit the right one this time.
00:41:20
Speaker
What's this deal, shit?
00:41:23
Speaker
Lead it off. The one that I think I'm going to stick with is... I think I'm going to lean this more into stale, but it could easily go into moldy, and that is the kicker situation.
00:41:40
Speaker
Why they didn't have both those guys active for this game, I'm not sure of. You know, I'm going to combine this one. Let's just go with the Packers roster decision when it comes to active and non-active.
00:41:55
Speaker
Why they didn't have Lucas active for this game, I don't know. You take a chance when McManus is coming off injury. Why not bring Brinson over Stackhouse?
00:42:08
Speaker
Again, i don't know. I'll give them a break on that. I'm going to say I think that's injury related and we'll find out if Brinson practices on Wednesday or not. So I'm not I'm not dicing them up over that one.
00:42:20
Speaker
Well. I'll just put it this way. Mike Spofford was doing the chat-along chat room thing for Packers, and I kind of threw that out there that was that it's interesting that they went Stackhouse over Brinson, and he just said that it was more – he thinks it was more because – more to do with run game defense than anything. It's like, yeah, but Brinson can give you both.
00:42:47
Speaker
So to choose Stackhouse over Brinson, that that that was kind of a weird decision. But if you think it's an injury, then that that's possible. But that still leads to McManus. you know what I understand you got to get him back out there, but what happens on this turf if he takes a misstep and re-aggravates the quad?
00:43:11
Speaker
Then what do you do? I don't think you can let Lucas play after that as an emergency guy. I know they do that with quarterbacks, but you can't that. No, there's no emergency kicker.
00:43:22
Speaker
It's wheeling kicking. Which wouldn't break my heart any. He has a history of it. But as anybody who's listened to the show for a while now, neither one of us were overly excited to pick up Brandon McManus as is.
00:43:42
Speaker
And
00:43:44
Speaker
I'm hoping this isn't the downfall that we were hoping that we were looking towards when it came to him. But now what this does is open up a kicker controversy.
00:43:58
Speaker
Well, kind of what I said to Jason Perrone on, on the Elon machine.
00:44:05
Speaker
And we've discussed it here. Has Haverick been outkicking his coverage? Is he playing above what he is?
00:44:17
Speaker
Because you you you've talked about it where he's struggled in the past. He's he's not been the kicker that we're seeing now. So is there a chance that, let's say, McManus, you're sitting the rest of the year.
00:44:31
Speaker
Haverick, you're taking over. What's to say two games down the line, we don't have the same type of game out of Haverson?
00:44:42
Speaker
So I hate that he's opened up this kicker controversy. And and I agree with Jason. i I can't say that you can't talk about getting rid of a player just because of You know, well, he just signed a three-year deal. well With kickers, it's not like massive deals like a Jair situation.
00:45:05
Speaker
You're still saving money the next few years if you cut him now. So, like, that that conversation means nothing to me. Like, so, yeah. I get where you're going with. And like you said, the way that this gets into the dumb and moldy section is, to me, this is the Zach Tom at Cleveland situation all over again where – It's a little different because, what's it called?
00:45:30
Speaker
Zach, you like I'm sure the team kind of talked Zach into it where because like during the week, he was like, I'm not feeling it. you know I don't know if I'm going to be able to go. Whereas McManus has been like, I'm going. I'm going to kick. I'm going to do it. you know All that kind of stuff.
00:45:43
Speaker
But it's like, we're... I know we're on the same pages. Okay, that's fine if you want to activate McManus, but on this turf, there is absolutely no reason to figure out to not figure out a way to have Haverstik up two because if McManus hits a divot, and there was a point in the Cleveland-Pittsburgh game where I thought Boswell could have blown his knee out because hit the turf gave out under his foot.
00:46:11
Speaker
If McManus steps a little wrong and re-aggravates the quad, where are you? like You know, what what are you doing in that situation? Like that's that's what you're getting out and it's the same thing is like you don't know how he's gonna feel after that first kick like he might dig in a cleat he might he could step the the turf could give out him he might have to make a tackle and blow it out again when he you know when he goes to like take on contact and stuff like that so yeah I do feel like it's just one of those short-sighted decision and and so on the on the other side of it it's like
00:46:48
Speaker
you have have resect and yeah i get what you and perone are going back and forth on it's like how much do you push the luck with how good have or six look blah blah all that kind of stuff but to me my whole thing with mcmanus is he's 30 he's older than me and he might be older than you yeah like older than you yeah but but it's that whole like when an athlete is that old if you have a serviceable and at bare minimum haversick is a serviceable option to replace he's kicking better than mcmanus has this season regardless of injury
00:47:23
Speaker
so why go when like he's still not kicking on his normal routine and i know some people are like oh that doesn't mean yes it fucking does eat kickers are up there with some of the most neurotic weird people where it's like if i don't put my shoes on the right way and i don't put my pants on with the the certain leg at the certain time my whole day's off kind of thing like they're those kind of people why are you having a guy go out there and be your only option when he's still not absolutely 100 not i feel 100 or oh i'm good to go like there is no reason to be playing that kind of this and it absolutely could have screwed the packers tonight like that's the thing is like for a half it was you had momentum up seven three you drive and this goes into also decision making by lafleur
00:48:15
Speaker
Why, why, why are you deciding to kick a field goal with a guy who missed two games with an injury, still isn't totally off the injury report, and you're like, I'm going to have him bomb a 57-yarder.
00:48:27
Speaker
I don't care what's in the new football the new kicker footballs, unless there's a freaking rocket in it that shoots it at the field goal post. There is no reason that you should be like, yeah, we're going to go kick the 57-yarder.
00:48:39
Speaker
It's like... it wasn't even close no and that's the thing is it's like okay maybe in a dome like if they were playing if they were in Arizona I'm like okay it's in a dome like sure why not this is Pittsburgh this is one of the the hardest places bar none to kick a foot a field goal in the NFL in in any of the the American football stadiums in the world why oh why are you sending a geriatric kicker out there to try to kick that field goal when he's coming off an injury and you sit not only does he miss but you set up an easy field goal opportunity because basically once the Steelers cross the 45 that's fuel go range for Boswell like no ifs ands or buts there Tomlin's like well screw it we're in scoring range now like I don't care what happens at this point he couldn't have known but Green Bay's offense ain't gonna do anything for the rest of the half so we're we're fine kicking here so like
00:49:35
Speaker
Going in, when I saw what the inactives were, I was like, you are putting all your chips on luck because really it is luck that he got out of the game. Injury for no setbacks or anything against probably the best all around kicker in the NFL base. You know, could when you adjust for like where he kicks, he's not kicking on turf. He's kicking on the second worst field possible. He kicks in a stadium that has some of the trickiest wind winds to read and all that kind of stuff.
00:50:03
Speaker
And Boswell is just nuking every kick he attempts. So like in the end, it's like, oh, they could have had six more points. No. like You turned what should have been and a first half that you had control of into a nail biter because you made this decision to start McManus off injury. So yeah, that's a black mark.
00:50:25
Speaker
OK, I got another stale real quick. And it's this comment right here. Hey. Unlike Jair, at least I'm here doing my job, putting on this fine entertainment for you with a frog in my voice, or in my throat, feeling like shit.
00:50:42
Speaker
So, you take that back, True. i i fully do not support this comment. Also, in Jair's defense, he's not on IR. He's just game- He's a healthy scratch.
00:50:56
Speaker
Okay, the other side of it, it's- It's Keyshawn. He's been up and down this season. I did think he... Before you go on your rant on this, I do want to say about Keyshawn that DPI that was called against him, I think those are bullshit calls.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yes. Because there's no other way that he can play that and there's nothing else he can do. He was legit in fine coverage. It just so happens that
00:51:29
Speaker
Rogers under throws it, quote unquote, under throws it. And the, and the receiver has to come back for it and can't come back for it. So that's an automatic pass interference.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I'm not holding that one again. Some people are like, oh, he's got to turn around and look. I was like, I don't think he knows that it's that off target. like he And he you're right. He does try to get his head around.
00:51:52
Speaker
That pass is so bad. like let's justster It's bad. Rodgers is just throwing it, hoping to get DPI at that point. I know there's no way to like officiate that part of it, but it's kind of like...
00:52:04
Speaker
You know, Bukowski had the tweet last week that you shouldn't be able to draw DPI on slot fades no matter how by the letter of the law it purely because half the time it's bad quarterbacks making shitty throws. And, you know, like, the it and i get it. Like, you can't write that into a rule book. But stop rewarding bad throws with flags that that just reward.
00:52:27
Speaker
They legitimately reward offenses with yardage. don't think that was bad throw, though. I think that was a purpose throw. Oh, wait I say bad in terms of like there was no intent for Austin to catch that ball.
00:52:38
Speaker
That's why I'm saying it's a bad throw. Yeah. But yeah. So Nixon, it's like my thing with Nixon is. He's in the stale, not the moldy, because he did play better in the second half. Granted, how much of that was game situation. Rogers not being able to target him down the field.
00:52:56
Speaker
there is still an issue with that but he did recover you know he gave up the long pass early because he kind of quit on the play like the last sunday night football game i know some people are gonna say he lost the ball i'm like you gotta keep running like you can't just be like oh i don't see it it must be done it's like no it's six yards behind you it's like bro you better find your guy and keep running to catch him kind of thing like that that can't be a oh you know he lost the ball like no that's not an excuse you have the you have a couple plays around the dpi the slant to dk like i i'm not even gonna get that much on him he's playing the fade and sometimes you just rock paper scissors lose those kind of moments he and at that point he's just boxed out there's nothing he can do there second and half i thought he played a better game there was one play late in the game where i'm like
00:53:47
Speaker
it's the one where, Jalen Warren catches the flat and he's kind of running up the sideline and Nixon kind of does that like half old lay bullshit where he like goes to push him out of bounds, but doesn't push him out of bounds. And it's like, dude, you better smoke that guy. Like, Don't just... And, you know, I'm sure he'll be like, oh, I didn't know if i was going get... Just smoke his ass out of bounds. You're up two scores. Really, two and a half because it was 16 at that point. Just light him the fuck up. And if they're going to play stupid great games, let him win stupid prizes kind of thing.
00:54:18
Speaker
But... For the most part, like yes, it's it's it's stale because it's like you can still see where this is an issue moving forward. But I do need to give credit to Keyshawn for not just totally sinking and letting it be like just an awful... He had an awful first half, but second half he wasn't nearly as bad kind of thing. So, you know like I said, that's a it's kind of like when you earmark the, like, is LeFleur too conservative? you know like it's It's in that bin where it's like...
00:54:48
Speaker
we can see that this is going to be an issue kind of thing. I don't know how they're going to fix it. Thank God they at least played Carrington out there. And then, hey, if you just battle it out between Hobbs and Nixon at this point, fine. Like, I don't care.
00:55:02
Speaker
Carrington proved he needs to play tonight and you figure out the rest of it from there. Like, that's that's where I'm at at this point. And I've said it all along, Nixon has never shown himself to be a true number one corner.
00:55:15
Speaker
I don't care what anybody says. Yes, he had a couple of games this year that he seemed to be lights out, but was that because we were playing teams that didn't have great receivers, didn't have great quarterbacks, whatever you want to call it?
00:55:31
Speaker
Or did the pass rush bail him out? And so now I'm not saying he's a horrible player by any means. He's been solid, but yeah, he's not a true number one. So something has to be done, whether it's bring, and it's obviously going to have to be at the end of the season. I know there's rumors out there that they're, they're making phone calls on players, but even if they bring somebody in, i they'd have to get up to speed too quickly to make a meaningful impact.
00:56:09
Speaker
So, yeah, I just, he he definitely was rough, and that's why I said earlier that you could tell that Rodgers knew who his weak link was, and that's where he targeted more often than not.
00:56:22
Speaker
And honestly, like I said, the the way it's stale is because, We all thought this was a game where Nixon's going to give up like 12 of 14 for 200 yards and three touchdowns in the second half of the game. Like that's that's where we all thought, I see you, True North. I don't think Melton's quite ready yet.
00:56:42
Speaker
yeah But you know what? Maybe you throw him out there here and there, like season him in kind of thing and stuff. And you kind of just live with it. it's like But this goes back to my still point with LeFleur.
00:56:55
Speaker
figure your shit out faster, get your offense on track faster so that you can be up multiple scores, and then you can put Bull Melton in an actual game when you're up three scores late in the fourth quarter.
00:57:06
Speaker
Like, that's the thing is, like, I totally understand that you have... you know You're going to put your eggs in the Carrington, Keyshawn, Nate Hobbs baskets to start the season.
00:57:17
Speaker
I have no problem with that. But for the love of bejesus, score as many points as you can early so that you, one, your team doesn't have to defend the run late. That's how you take the taxing effect off your defense so they don't have to be beat on for a whole four quarters. You can get...
00:57:35
Speaker
rashaun parsons all your pass rushers all the stats because they're just in takeoff mode to go and hunt the quarterback and then you can start to play your like tertiary secondary players to see maybe bowl is actually just ready i don't think he is based on where he was in the preseason it would be an impressive leap for him to take technical technique wise to be where he needs to be to be a viable nfl corner but Maybe it is sort of a Sam Shields-ish thing where you're just like, you know what?
00:58:05
Speaker
Just put the fast guy out there. We know he likes to hit people. We know he tackles well. Just... I don't think we're there yet, but I won't... if anyone suggests it i'm not gonna burn people for saying it because honestly if carrington is gonna be so really if any of the players are gonna prove to be just dead ducks for a whole game you've got to just start throwing stuff at the wall and seeing whatever will stick like this season has too much on it you've you've got you haven't gone all in because obviously you still you you haven't like mike did cut your draft class kind of thing but
00:58:44
Speaker
like you've gone about as all in as you realistically can for a season so you've got to look under every rock check every cranny to see if you have solutions on roster and like i said i'll get into a little floor of it this is again like the nixon thing where it's like the first half was rough but the second in half we adjusted yes he still ran it i know some people are like oh like he ran too many times he's never not gonna run the ball here and there that's just not in his dna he did pare it down a lot to where it was like i'm gonna run it one time every three play like port like i'm gonna you know and
00:59:22
Speaker
there is like unknown factor on how important the run game is to his offense functioning properly where it's like you know can it just be pass pass pass i i don't know but then you have the sequence where it's like i'm gonna run it three times and then throw it on fourth down and stuff and thank god that pass play to tucker worked because true that's hilarious you know what why not but i'm like i appreciate that he did adjust we saw him go to more quick pass stuff in the second half but he still took his shots in between there was a little bit more variation in his route structure where guys were open short you know you have you have the throw to musgrave you have the throat of fitzpatrick you have the throws to jacobs where you're not getting any chunks or anything but you're gaining a few yards to like
01:00:15
Speaker
Stay even with the chain. you know you're not in like You're not going from second and 10 to third and 12 or anything or third and 10 kind of thing. You're at least third and five, third and six kind of thing. You're manageable-ish and stuff.
01:00:27
Speaker
but my whole thing with him is like you're this offensive savant and the one that screams to my mind is the cincinnati game where it's like we got into halftime and we were like oh they're playing more cover two than we expected i'm like it took you two whole quarters to figure that out and recognize it like You should... I'll give you one drive... I'll give you two drives because it's like, okay, is the one drive a a tendency breaker and are they going to go back to their usual stuff, the second drive? When you get into three, four, five drives and they're still doing the same thing, buddy, you need to adjust.
01:01:00
Speaker
Like, you cannot tell me, oh, we came in all week expecting single high coverage and they played cover two for the whole half. They played it for a whole half. You need to adjust. Like, you cannot just sit there and let them do the thing to you and...
01:01:15
Speaker
I do think he got a little run heavy, but also
01:01:19
Speaker
it's so hard for me to totally totally bust him when you have three third down plays that should absolutely work that were two are clear drops one by dobbs one by tucker and then the other one is a sideline fade that dobbs you know some we can debate if it's a drop or not kind of thing but i need dobs to make that play if you're going an nfl receiver you got to help your quarterback out in that scenario and you know some people were like oh he was trying to bring up like the corner had no fucking clue where the ball was he's got to come down he's got to make a better attempt to come down with that pass he kind of like almost patty caked it away so i'm like
01:01:57
Speaker
i'm not gonna totally burn the floor because hey this offense went score score score score score after halftime but it's like we need a few more of those in the first half the floor and like sam kongato bless his soul and like he always admits he's probably a little bit more pessimistic than he needs to be but the things he's saying like they're more on the pessimistic side of the fence but the root cause of it that he's saying he's like this team always just wastes a half doing nothing on one side of the ball or the other and yes you can't expect nfl teams to play full four quarter games in october but we're in a trend this is another trend and this is why it's in the stale it's like come on the floor like there's a point where you got to take your 15 play script and just throw it in the trash can like
01:02:44
Speaker
if it ain't working or if whatever you thought they were gonna do ain't what they're doing throw that thing this just hook that thing into the stands and start calling some different plays and like i said better late than never you got you know what is it you got you got touchdown touch down touch touchdown touchdown touchdown field goal field goal and then kneel out the game so like you went five straight scores out of halftime and then end the game so like i can't i'm like i said i'm not gonna put it in moldy because you did you did correct you did steer out of the skid but it's like why were you steering into it for a whole half like
01:03:24
Speaker
Got to fix that. And like I said, there's some nuance in there because this isn't just the like he was totally banging his head against the wall the whole first half. There were drops in there that screwed up drives and stuff. And then you had the weird like should have been roughing the passer, but it wasn't thing and all that crap. But it's like it's like, come on, LaFleur. You can't have one scoring drive, second that should have been a scoring drive that ends in a missed field goal. And everything else is like a three and out like that can't be your offense for a whole half.
01:03:53
Speaker
Yeah, I've only got one more stale that I can throw out there. than we can If you don't have anything else, we can move in the moldy. And this is going to sound weird, but the usage of Matthew Golden.
01:04:06
Speaker
And there were a couple of times during this game where you could you saw Matthew get open, but Love didn't look towards him.
01:04:17
Speaker
And I get the whole, well, quarterback has to, you know, do sell so many things. But I think it was Collinsworth that called it out that Golden would have been wide open and walked in for a touchdown on one of the slants near the goal line.
01:04:33
Speaker
There was another one that I did see that the defender was kind of sneaking up. But had you placed it in the right spot, there was a quick out that Golden ran that – Love saw it and then he moved off of it real quick.
01:04:50
Speaker
And I get that there was a defender closing in, but you still could have hit him for the first down because I don't think that play ended up going for a first down anyway. So i get that he's young. i get that he's a rookie.
01:05:06
Speaker
but he's shown to be more than capable. And why they're not using him more these last couple days, or last couple games, has been really kind of frustrating because I get you want to give Dobbs touches. I get because that's Jordan's guy.
01:05:23
Speaker
i get wanting to get Watson back in there because that's, you know, who they're wanting. But you spent the draft capital on this guy. He's worth it.
01:05:36
Speaker
Get them some more touches out there and not just these quick itches out to the flat and say, okay, well, here you go. this This is your play. Go for it.
01:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. It's –
01:05:51
Speaker
it's it's The one late in the game, I do understand. And my nitpick with that is like, if you weren't going to throw to... I think Love kind of looked at Golden on that one is like,
01:06:04
Speaker
He should walk in, but I think he's like, I don't want to chance any sort of turnover that's going to take points off the board kind of thing. But if that's the case, it's like you should just run the ball to run the clock down more kind of thing and stuff. so like And I would have had no real problem with it. But it's like it just looks so weird where he kind of just throws a give up ball to Wilson on a wheel route.
01:06:22
Speaker
kind of thing and i'm like uh like and yeah it's one of those where it's like okay like what's the intent of that place like were you ever gonna try to bang it in on the inside for a touchdown or was it like if the whatever first read you had isn't there you're just chucking it out of bounds to like not risk a turnover then it's like you should just run the ball maybe wilson pops through for a touchdown or at worst you'd run 40 seconds off the clock like that That one, it's kind of like... It looked so weird in real time.
01:06:51
Speaker
And I agree with you. that The one to the flat... it i can't I can't put a finger on it. i It's one of those where... if he had If he had treated Golden as the initial read, I wonder if he throws that route because it's like, oh, yeah, it's open.
01:07:08
Speaker
But I wonder if he's looking downfield, and then by the time he comes to so so Golden, he's still open. But like you said, the defender's coming downhill, and it's like, oh, like is there a risk kind of thing? Without being able to see what he was seeing, it looked helmet-wise that he saw Golden first and then he went.
01:07:29
Speaker
So I don't know. But without seeing what he's seeing. Yeah. and you know And that's the thing with like reads is sometimes... sometimes what's it called you look one way first to try and draw multiple defenders out of a different throwing lane and stuff like that I don't know how their reads work I don't know what the sequencing is this is one of those games where I'm kind of like maybe just throw it and get whatever you can kind of thing especially because it's the first half was such a slog to move the ball but yeah I I do want
01:08:01
Speaker
the The main point you're making is one I agree with, where I want there to be more plays where like the thing is designed to get the ball to Golden and not like at the line of scrimmage. like let him Because he's shown he can run real receiver stuff. like That was a big part of the the Cincinnati game. is like He bailed you out of a lot of bad situations in that game. So it's like, let him run some actual...
01:08:25
Speaker
receiver stuff and scheme him up to be the first read on those plays and not just like behind the line of scripts and like i said this is one where i didn't like how he or jacobs handled those opportunities this game where when you're on a bad field you can't jitterbug back there like you can do that on turf you can do that on a perfectly manicured grass field on this shitty field you need to be the aggressor you need to create the angle and you can cut off of that afterwards after defenders have like shown what pursuit angles they're going to take to you you can either jet it up the sideline or you can cut back inside afterward but that whole like catch it sit there for a step and then like survey and then try to make a move that's not going to work because as much as they might struggle with traction you're not going to get up to top speed good either kind of thing so that that's one kind of like nitpicky thing and stuff but yeah i agree with you that
01:09:18
Speaker
And I get it. There's only one football. there's only so you know you There's only so many plays or passes in a game, all that kind of stuff. But I do need to see them take advantage of the talent that Golden is. I do think we're going to see that as Watson gets more involved, as defenses do more to take away, to take away try and take away Tucker from the offense.
01:09:41
Speaker
Golden is the guy who should... who should benefit from that i also do think this is sort of a byproduct of it's like golden is going to be a perimeter receiver and jaden reed gets hurt early where it's like oh like and like i said they do the packers do try to fit guys into a role to start with and it's like you're gonna learn this role we're goingnna teach you other stuff as you go along but we want you to be really good at this thing and then you know we'll add on on top of it and stuff and i think that they're sort of stuck in between like okay like he probably is the best option to be the slot receiver but now because of the wicks injury you're kind of like running out of perimeter receivers and stuff but
01:10:22
Speaker
Like I said, this is something that it's in stale because we've seen the flashes. We know what he can do. We know he can do it at an NFL and an nfl level. But it's like, OK, we need to like scheme things up for him and and and and make things available for him.
01:10:39
Speaker
That's all I got for stale. did Do you got anything else? That's it for me. That's a moldy cheese. All right. so and Go for it. yeah Yeah, I'm going to go first since I'm kind of losing my voice with this stuff. So I'm going to go with the with an easy one, too.
01:11:00
Speaker
And it seems like we're talking about this week in and week out is the officiating. And this crew was really weird on their calls.
01:11:12
Speaker
they They missed an obvious false start. They missed an obvious offsides. they you know Some of the defensive pass interferences were weird.
01:11:26
Speaker
The one that really... This one, again, i don't know how they'd fix it because of the way it's written. But the Rodgers spiking the ball as he's going down and they call on it not intentional grounding because he had a quote unquote receiver there, but the receivers engaged in blocking.
01:11:49
Speaker
So at that point, he's no longer a receiver. He's a blocker. But because of the position he plays, he's considered a receiver. And that's the only reason that he was able to get not called for intentional grounding.
01:12:06
Speaker
I think that's completely BS, but that's kind of like the, the coming back to the ball and getting defensive pass interference. How do you fix it? Would you not call it and stuff like that? But there was so much with this crew that it just, it was really weird calls.
01:12:26
Speaker
Uh, you kind of mentioned it with the, is it, uh, uh, what was the call on it? Uh,
01:12:34
Speaker
oh
01:12:36
Speaker
unnecessary roughness against the quarterback or not, or was it this, was it that? TJ Watt, it seemed like got away with a lot of hands to the face, even though they called it like once or twice, but he seemed to get away with a lot of it.
01:12:52
Speaker
Whereas on the other side, Micah again was getting mugged and wasn't getting called. So You know, how do you... and It seems like week in and week out, where we're getting the same shit happening.
01:13:07
Speaker
Yeah. So the intentional grounding one, again, the NFL needs to go and rewrite that rule because the intent of the intentional grounding penalty is to stop quarterbacks from dirtying the ball when they're about to get to like avoid sacks.
01:13:23
Speaker
And I don't think you should be able to... get away with intentional grounding in that scenario like Rodgers did, where one, you don't make a wind-up motion to throw. like I think that's the lowest of the low. And and this is I'm not mad at Aaron because he is totally taking advantage of how stupidly this rule is written.
01:13:45
Speaker
So the two changes I would make is you have to wind up the throw, whether it's with your throwing hand or your not throwing hand, you have to wind up the throw. None of this like push past bullshit kind of thing and stuff. All of these things, it's you know what's going to happen is that it's going to come to a head because quarterbacks are so good at avoiding sacks and trying to stay alive in the pocket and all that kind of bullshit.
01:14:09
Speaker
why does the hip drop tackle scenario happen for the Packers last week it's because what's his face the Cardinals back he doesn't want to get sacked kind of thing and he's like he's a 240 pound guy and like refuses to go down kind of thing same with Rogers he's like I'm I'm not gonna run but I'm still gonna like juke and dodge kind of thing and like try to like keep a play alive so the first thing is it's like Honestly, just change up the wrap-up rules.
01:14:35
Speaker
Like, quarterbacks aren't going to like it, but it's like, okay, you can have all the protections, but once people get you wrapped up, the play's over kind of thing. That's one way to handle it. The easier written rule thing is you cannot, like, the player is eligible based on how they line up, but you cannot deem a player as an eligible receiver on a play where the quarterback intentionally dumps the ball when they're not looking at the quarterback.
01:15:02
Speaker
This is the Rodgers play. He gets away with it because Jalen Warren is eligible, but he's blocking someone with his back to Rodgers. There is no way he is going to be able to attempt to risk to catch that pass.
01:15:14
Speaker
Same with the DAC one from the last Sunday night game where, you know, they like half rule that it's... that it's what's it called that it's for they like never really distinguish who's the eligible receiver because it can't be but it can't be ferguson because ferguson's eight yards downfield and the running back is engaged with the defender so then that's the that's the written part of the rule that's very easy to change is you You just write the rule that that receiving option needs to be looking for the ball.
01:15:46
Speaker
If he ain't looking for the ball or running a route, it's like... i can I can allow for the guys running a route, but he hasn't looked for the ball. Because guys throw the guys the ball that aren't looking for fade routes kind of thing and stuff. So that's fine.
01:15:58
Speaker
But like if you're in pass pro, and in especially if you're engaged in pass pro with a defender, you cannot get the quarterback a get-out-of-free-jail card. And then, like I said, on top of it, I would change the rule to where it's like, you have to like throw throw the ball, even if it's a dart throw.
01:16:15
Speaker
like But that... underhanded push-pass shit. Basically, if you watch it, though, it was a dart throw because it was just a real quick flick of the wrist. But he's like... His hand is like this... I know I'm making like a very insensitive bullshit, but his hand isn't like... you know like Where it's like out...
01:16:33
Speaker
to like a natural throwing bullshit. He's throwing it like against the grain, like how guys throw shuttle shuttle shovel passes kind of thing and stuff. like you have to be Even if it's a quick throw, you have to be like from a throwing position.
01:16:46
Speaker
I know that sounds insane to try and like govern and stuff, but you make defenders jump through all these kinds of hoops in terms of how they can or can't tackle, how they can or can't hit the quarterback.
01:16:57
Speaker
the least you can do is not make it so hard to hit the quarterback and on top of that give the quarterback so many get out of jail free cards on the back end of it like they have to fix that because the game is already so easy for quarterbacks you can't hit them a certain way in the pocket you can't slap their helmet on accident you can't hit receivers over the middle of the field anymore like There's so many things that already benefit the offense.
01:17:25
Speaker
And then on top of that, you're like, oh. And then the quarterback can just throw it into the foot of his his running back who's blocking someone. It's like, no, like that's a bridge too far. The... Everyone... All the Steeler fans or non-Packer fans getting mad at the Devontae Wyatt offsides.
01:17:41
Speaker
I'm like, tough shit. Broderick Jones ran two days before the ball was snapped. And, like, you know it's bad when Collinsworth and Tirico are like, he went early, right? like Like, they didn't even... Like, Tirico doesn't even call the play because he's, like, expecting a whistle and a flag. Like, it was that bad that, like, Tirico kind of does the, like, oh, solid game for the Steelers there on the ground. And...
01:18:05
Speaker
like and like you can tell they're silently both going there's a flag somewhere right there isn't ye maybe he wasn't as early oh he was he was awfully early kind of thing so like like the steelers fans nfc north fans can all cry about the davante wyatt play to me that's eye for an eye you had your good luck play we had ours tough tough you know tough ish and then The one where you know Tom got called for illegal hands to the face, it wasn't even the Watt part of it. I understand, like, OK, he got blocked into.
01:18:39
Speaker
I thought Highsmith landed on top of Love, and that whole bodyweight rule is still in the rulebook. I'll go watch it back, see if it wasn't as bad. But the way he hit him over the top of Watt, like,
01:18:51
Speaker
to me it's it's not that watt hit him low it's that highsmith used what to push him over and land on top of jordan that's the part that i thought should have been flagged and then westendorf tweeted about this in the game i do not like where we're going with the some of the how the league decides to do the assist from new york stuff it's like what are the bounds on like where you draw the line because it's like okay so that robin wilson touchdown are you gonna stop every game in every situation that comes to like that which to me i've long said probably should be how you use you know we all see the game in 4k and if something is so blatantly bad you should be able to from new york be like that was a god-awful call change it kind of thing and stuff but the league has made no concession that that's what they're doing no written statement that that's how they're handling these situations
01:19:51
Speaker
And it didn't cost the Packers tonight, but it is one of those where it's kind of like, okay, now is where you're deciding that this is the line too far that you're going to just be like, we're fixing everything and we're deciding that this is a this is a moment that we have to absolutely fix a wrong kind of thing and stuff.
01:20:09
Speaker
So like, yeah, I... it It's one thing if the NFL is going to come out tomorrow and be like, yes, NFL or New York assist is going to do this in every game moving forward.
01:20:21
Speaker
I don't even like it if it's only primetime game because it's like that's it's a really bad precedent that we only give a shit about the Monday night, Sunday night, Thursday night games. Tough shit if you get a bad call that's so blatantly obvious to the naked eye. We're not changing it in like in a noon kickoff game kind of thing.
01:20:39
Speaker
The league should be able to do this because you pay so many guys to sit there in that room with the bazillion TV screens and they see everything that we see and all that kind of crap. But like I said, I just don't like that on a week eight Sunday night game. They're like, this is the game where we're going to make this sweeping change kind of thing and stuff. So I don't know where you draw the line with it. But yeah, that's kind of where I'm like, eh.
01:21:04
Speaker
like i said if they just declare that they're gonna handle it that way from this point forward that's fine that's how i thought they should have done it but i don't like that they're kind of jumping half-ass in in the middle in midstream and being like oh like we're gonna allow you to fix this wrong here at this point in the game and like good job queshawn breaking up the two-point conversion so it like kind of made it a new moot point kind of thing and stuff but yeah like that was one of those where i'm like
01:21:34
Speaker
And it especially looks bad because Pittsburgh can't challenge the play. I wouldn't have had a problem if it was like, oh, Pittsburgh could challenge it. and yeah But the fact that they couldn't challenge it, and you know the league office is like, oh, it's just seven seconds, and if this play was on the other side of the two-minute warning, we would have stopped it, reviewed it, and changed it kind of thing.
01:21:54
Speaker
I do not like that that's the like the line that we're breaking here. So, yeah, i am I'm not a fan of that being... you know Like I said, it I do think that that's always where the league should have operated in that regard, but I don't like that late in a fourth quarter of a primetime game you're like where where the one team is out of challenges and is s SOL kind of thing.
01:22:19
Speaker
like i i don't like that that's the line you draw and also the ruling that like oh wilson did enough my point of view on that and i know i'm saying this through green and cold green and gold colored lenses is he goes to the ground and if you go through to the ground you're supposed to complete the catch no matter what through the ground and it's like I understand that, you know, like you had the Jordy Nelson touchdown back in, I think it was 2016, where he catches the ball, like pats his feet down, and then the Washington DB like karate chops it out of his hand and stuff.
01:22:53
Speaker
But Jordy is standing up through the whole play. Wilson goes to the ground, and that's the whole way the catch rule is written is like if though you do all the stuff and you complete the catch standing up,
01:23:05
Speaker
You don't have to survive the ground because you're not going to the ground. But once the ground becomes an issue, you have to survive the ground. And that's my biggest bugaboo with that part of it is I'm like, okay, like, I understand that the end zone changes things, but you still have to complete the catch.
01:23:21
Speaker
So it's like... Why are we, you know, that's the thing is like, it gets back into that whole discussion. They have like 30 refs in a room and they're like, oh, 60% agreement is good. I'm like, no, it isn't.
01:23:32
Speaker
Like, no, it's not. That means there's a problem with your rule. So we won't beat the horse too much more on that. But honestly, that was really the only moldy thing I had tonight. Anything else for you?
01:23:45
Speaker
Because we talked about the LeFleur angle. We talked about McManus. Honestly, i can't even get on Bisaccia for the the last holding call because Buller just falls down on the turf when he's trying to block the guy on the putt return. like Bisaccia could be Jesus and he couldn't have stopped that.
Steelers Throwback Uniform Controversy
01:24:03
Speaker
Or I guess technically he could have. But...
01:24:06
Speaker
i Nothing that I can really think. Maybe the Steelers for choosing weird-ass throwback uniforms. So many people have talked about that. My only point is I'm like, why I get that it's honoring when you started playing, but like wear that for week one.
01:24:22
Speaker
like Don't wear a jersey for when your team sucked when you're playing a primetime, middle-of-the-season-defining-game kind of thing. I think the jersey was all right. It was the pants that made it weird.
01:24:35
Speaker
I saw, like, Aaron Ellis' tweet. Like, they looked naked from the waist down. That one made me laugh really hard before the game. So, I just... But, yeah, really, after went through all that, no, I don't have anything else.
Community and Support: Listener Engagement
01:24:50
Speaker
They they did do what they needed to do.
01:24:54
Speaker
oh
01:24:56
Speaker
So, yeah, I just... i think we can leave it be okay and i do we're gonna throw this out there though it might not just be westendorf that's not wanting to do gold zone brendan has really been busy with his other yeah he's obligation shout out to brendan dorzynski just continuing to cut it up but i it's a fun show i hope they do at some point bring it back but brendan is a busy busy man at this point so But you know what? We're going to let Joe get to sleep. We've been going for 90 minutes.
01:25:27
Speaker
Like I said, I'm just so glad they won this game. I'm not going to nitpick too much on how they got there because I just needed them to win when this one. like I'm not being so picky about it.
01:25:39
Speaker
I could not let Rodgers get that at the end. And all the all the mass media, because you know that certain people were going to do the, are we sure the Packers made the right choice kind of thing and all that stuff.
01:25:51
Speaker
I'm so glad that Jordan played the better game, just absolutely was dominant on the field tonight, and that the Packers won by two scores. And it wasn't just a squeaker. I'm glad they won by double digits.
01:26:04
Speaker
And, hey, on top of it, extra point, they broke the 27 point. They don't win if they don't score exactly 27 points. So, you know, I'm all for breaking all the – Since 1970. Yep. So –
01:26:19
Speaker
I'm not superstitious until I am, so I like to break all the trends and all that kind of crap. But we're going to let Joe get on out of here, get some sleep, get his next dosage of medicine. oh That's going to do it for us tonight.
01:26:33
Speaker
Please check out the website, ohanapackers.org. As Joe said, please purchase things from the shop to assist in his recovery. He needs some more herbal teas, more more cough syrup, more cough drops.
01:26:44
Speaker
So please check out, you know especially after Tucker's big game, check out the Tucker k Craft line. support us there. All episodes of this and Cheese Talk Radio are on there as well. Please follow us on your social videos at Ohana underscore Packers at Ohana on Twitter at Ohana Packers Edition on Instagram.
01:27:01
Speaker
Search us on Facebook. You know, we want to get this live, these live shows streaming on Facebook as well. So want to hit that 100 follower minimum there. Please give the podcast a follow on your favorite podcasting app. Please like and subscribe.
01:27:16
Speaker
And that's all I've got for tonight we're just gonna get Joe out of here go pack go and a