Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Week 10 Review Eagles Melt the Cheese
0 Playsin 2 hours
Monday Night Football didn’t go the way Cheeseheads hoped. The Eagles soared while the Packers sputtered, and we’re unpacking every busted play, coaching call, and silver lining from the primetime loss. Grab your cheese curds and your coping mechanisms.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Packers' Performance
00:00:56
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ohana Packers Edition podcast. I sputtered on the intro and I'm still doing better than the Packers offense did tonight. The Packers find a new way to find a new low on the season and just sink closer to 500 again after an absolutely dismal offensive showing on Monday Night Football.
00:01:23
Speaker
We have like a bunch of different ways we can try and beat the dead horse in this episode. And I think that Joe and I are going to, you know, the game was not entertaining. It wasn't fun.
00:01:33
Speaker
And I think that the two of us are going to try and entertain ourselves over the next however long we do put it into this episode.
Blame Assessment: Love vs. LaFleur
00:01:38
Speaker
But Joe, glad you made it home from work safely. And that was more effort than what the Packers put on offense tonight.
00:01:49
Speaker
And i don't, I mean, we'll get into a more in depth when we, and when we get into our, our segments, but I go back to Jordan.
00:02:00
Speaker
I don't think it was too horrible of a game plan. I mean, yeah, there were some boneheaded play calls in that, but Jordan just looked lost out there and he looked jumpy and he was quick reading things instead of letting it like develop but and you know Even Aikman, with as many concussions as he's had in his life, was seeing things that Jordan was missing. And it's like, who do you blame on this? I mean, I can understand blaming LeFleur because he's got to prepare his quarterback.
00:02:35
Speaker
But I think a lot of the blame goes into Jordan right now.
00:02:42
Speaker
I think it's LaFleur. And I don't mind that we differ on that. i Jordan wasn't good. I'm not going to try and sugarcoat it or paint put paint on the pig or anything like that.
00:02:54
Speaker
You know, he had the the aborted snap right after the fumble recovery. He blows the two-minute drive with the fumble on a – just a – you know, I know some people are saying no one to let the play die, but also Jordan knows that he – It's that dumb position where it's like he knows he can't take a negative play, but people that are saying, oh, just take the sack, Jordan. It's like if he takes the sack there, they're not in field goal range, and Jordan knows that.
00:03:26
Speaker
And I just think I agree. Jordan needs to be better. i'm not good Like I said, I'm not going to sugarcoat that. And at the same time, I don't agree that LeFleur is doing enough to either prepare him or upset.
00:03:42
Speaker
Oh, Quan's Internet is not cooperating tonight.
00:03:49
Speaker
So. but start over my internet still came back faster than the Packers offense came to life. This game didn't take 58 fucking minutes for my internet, but no.
00:04:01
Speaker
So like, I do agree with you. Jordan needs to be better. And I'm not going to come here and tell you that like, Oh, what he did was fine. And he put on a winning performance or anything like that.
00:04:13
Speaker
It wasn't good enough either. And at the same time, LeFleur is, I don't believe LeFleur is doing him any favors out there.
Love's Frustration and Play-Calling Issues
00:04:23
Speaker
People, you know, I'm kind of glad, honestly, Love.
00:04:26
Speaker
I don't it know i want to say he threw LeFleur under the bus, but I'm kind of glad Love went out there after in the postgame and was like, that wasn't my call on the fourth down run, you know, on the the fourth down run at the end of the game.
00:04:38
Speaker
Because, you know, some people are going to say like, oh, ju Jordan has always fallen on the sword. Jordan has always taken gunshots for everyone else on this team. And right or wrong, I'm kind of glad that he's like, hey, I have a spine and I have a soul and I don't like being the the center of blame for everything out there.
00:04:58
Speaker
And, hey, you know, there are people in the Packers beat, some some newer and some very senior who are peddling hard on the LaFleur doesn't trust his quarterback topic.
00:05:14
Speaker
And Jordan definitely sees that. And, know, I do think Jordan is legitimately a good, nice person kind of thing and stuff. But at some point, everyone cracks and he does need to play better. He absolutely can and should be playing better.
00:05:28
Speaker
And at the same time, there's a part of me that's glad that he went and said, like, hey, like, that wasn't my call. That was the call I was given and I ran it kind of thing and stuff.
00:05:40
Speaker
At the same time, you're right. He has to be better. does. I don't want to see, you know and I do, as as much as I respect Troy and I do like Troy as a commentator, I do hate when, especially former quarterbacks are like, he's got to see that. I'm like, you're not playing behind this old line and you're not the one.
00:05:58
Speaker
And, and you know, that's the thing is it's like, you're not the one who goes out there and has to throw when it's third and nine. It's like, oh, like your warmup is turn around, hand the ball off twice or three times. And it's like, oh, it's third and nine.
00:06:12
Speaker
Jordan, save us. And it's like, You pulled the hand grenade pin and threw it to me with two seconds off, and you want me to do what? And Jordan can be better. He needs to be better.
00:06:24
Speaker
At the same time, I just don't like what LaFleur is doing. To me, he's being the worst kind of stubborn, and it's just... I think it's a big problem with where this offense is, and...
Seasonal Frustrations and Coaching Concerns
00:06:40
Speaker
I have a totally left field way. I'm going to go with our fresh topic and stuff, but...
00:06:48
Speaker
My frustration and honestly why like I'm just not firing off the top step tonight is, honestly, at the end of this game, I kind of just shrugged my shoulders and just like was like, yeah, I kind of expected that to happen.
00:07:00
Speaker
Like, there's honestly a part of me that's numb to this season already and a part of me that's in a way dead inside about it because I just already a part of me is like, whatever, like,
00:07:13
Speaker
I didn't want it to get here, but there was it was kind of that thing that you brought up about LaFleur. you know You brought it up as early as week two, and we kind of like both took turns being like, okay, which one of those is a potential trend and which one of those is like, but you know maybe it's just a situational thing due to how the roster is or injuries or all that kind of stuff.
00:07:34
Speaker
And man, like so many of those things we talked about in week two, week three, those things are popping up all over the place. And, you know, like Wendell Ferreira. And I do agree, like I'm as frustrated as I am with the situation with LaFleur, with how love is not performing.
00:07:54
Speaker
I'm not all the way at fire LaFleur yet, but... You know, the part where I kind of disagree with Wendell is like, I don't, you know, Wendell says like he shouldn't get fired over one bad month. The thing is, is like, is it really just one bad month or is this the sign that things are taking a disconcerting like debt spiral downturn?
00:08:14
Speaker
And LaFleur had about as close to McCarthy. I'm a very successful head coach moment in the postgame. And I get it. i I don't totally blame LaFleur because I do think there's an element of him being shell-shocked as to how poorly it went tonight.
00:08:31
Speaker
But also, like... That's your whole identity is you're supposed to be this whiz kid savant and your offense looks stale. you've You're so predictable. Like, you know, people joke about the second down and long runs, but it's like the fact that that fourth down play is becoming a meme because whether the eagles guessed it or they knew the sign or whatever the fact that they all see the shotgun formation and they all point in the direction of where the play ends up going like if everything up to this point hasn't shifted leflore on how he needs to adjust and just literally do something different for the fuck's sake of doing something different i'm afraid nothing will and if that's the case
00:09:21
Speaker
i don't know if he's going to survive through thanksgiving i don't want that to be the reality but if he's going to continue to be adamantly stubborn to sticking to things that this team cannot do well on offense the this stretch of game he's not going to win a game in november because these teams that they're playing like new york's front is just going to eat his front alive if he doesn't change how he operates Same thing for Detroit.
00:09:49
Speaker
Like, I know that they've had success blocking up, what's it called? Hutchinson and all that kind of stuff. But... This defense isn't going to hold down this Detroit offense if this offense if the Green Bay offense isn't scoring.
00:10:03
Speaker
And then if you're just moping into that post-Thanksgiving game to play Minnesota, Minnesota's going to jump you. And what have we said all season long? These NFC North coaches will come out to embarrass you.
00:10:17
Speaker
And I know that like everyone's like, what the fuck was Philly doing at the end of the game? All that kind of stuff. Sirianni is like, I'm going to put my foot boot on your neck and I'm going to crush your I'm going to crush your spine.
00:10:31
Speaker
And it didn't work. So it's like, oh, my God, he almost let the Packers tie the game at the end. But even that isn't a reality that the Packers can live in because, again, poor decision-making, poor process by LaFleur.
00:10:48
Speaker
And it's just the same beats that we've been either concerned or very wary of throughout this season.
Predictability and Tactical Stagnation
00:10:55
Speaker
They've all come to bite the Packers in the ass over the last couple weeks. And like I said, there should be options for them to move forward and to improve.
00:11:05
Speaker
But frankly, we've hit the point where I don't know if LeFleur is going to do it. and That's a spooky place to be right now.
00:11:14
Speaker
And to kind of go back a little bit, I'm not taking all the blame away from LeFleur. oh yeah. and No, no, no. And I'm not saying you are either. Yeah. But it's hard to...
00:11:26
Speaker
Do stuff when your quarterback is regressing also. and Because, you know, they showed the stat. Yeah, he only passed for six. but He only threw six times. But he only completed two out of the six.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. And like I said, that's where it gets into Jordan's got to be better. But also, you run it like... I know it's not 20, but it felt like it was 20 to 6 in the first half.
00:11:49
Speaker
And you just don't run the ball well enough. And you don't match up well it you don't match up well with this front. And it just goes back to the point of... Like, It's the... it LaFleur has become so predictable that they're playing Indian poker.
00:12:09
Speaker
Like his offense is out there playing Indian poker with the defense and they just don't do the fundamentals well enough to play that way. Like you they can't do the the Lombardi Packers. We're going to run the Green Bay sweep and we're going to tell you which way we're going to run.
00:12:24
Speaker
They don't do anything on offense well enough on a down-to-down basis to operate with that kind of frankly, misplaced cockiness from LeFleur.
00:12:34
Speaker
like And that's the part that I'm frustrated with. I get you, but I have to give him some credit because, yeah, people were getting pissed off at it, but I looked at it as he's actually trying to make adjustments when the camera cut to him sitting on the or standing on the sideline, looking away from the field, you know looking at the the the tablet and working on his plaything.
00:12:58
Speaker
And then he was also trying to throw stuff in there to, you know, he was, he sent in canard as an extra lineman that kind of hit him a little bit hard because it's like, well, we never done this before, so we don't know how to line up type thing with the penalties.
00:13:13
Speaker
yeah But that's what I said. I don't so much put this all on the floor of this game because it looked like he was actively trying, but He was reverting back.
00:13:26
Speaker
And on top of that, like I said, Jordan wasn't sharp. yeah Jordan looked like he regressed. Why isn't Jordan, you know, one of the things that everybody loved to question when Rodgers was still here when and when LeFleur took over, well, are you going to let Rodgers have, you know, Rodgers is known for changing things things at the line.
00:13:45
Speaker
Why isn't Jordan doing a little bit more of that? You know, obviously on the fourth and one, LeFleur sent in the call. You see the defense fucking doing whatever.
00:13:58
Speaker
Jacobs came out and said that he heard them say that they knew the play call. Why didn't you check into something? Why didn't you? Or like I said, he he he just needs to like kind of have a fuck you moment and just keep the ball there kind of thing. and stuff like yeah i Like I said, no one is fully...
00:14:18
Speaker
responsible or copable. But like, the my my thing with LeFleur is like, you're right. like And it it sucks because it's all compounding. But what worries me is he doesn't look for a solution until like it it needs to be halftime.
00:14:36
Speaker
Cause like until halftime, he's like, I'm just gonna stem the bleeding and I'm gonna revert to my worst, like my worst traits kind of thing. And honestly, it's kind of a miracle. The defense held the Eagles scoreless in the first half.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yes, like one of the lone bright spots was Edge Cooper punching that ball out to like stop the Eagles from scoring on their opening drive. That was a definitive bright spot. The defense came to play all game. Yes, they gave up the touchdown drive like that was unfortunate. But at some point when you give your you give one side of the ball no margin for error.
00:15:12
Speaker
The other guys, you know, the whole other guys get paid to and all that kind of stuff. And playing defense is hard. Like, I don't care what anyone says. And Domovsky had the tweet where all three of the Packers' losses are by 16 points or less. And it's, like, the first time in, like, 50 years that that's been the case for... I don't think even just the Packers for, like, any team period kind of thing. And it's, like, what are the it's like you hold other teams to 17 or less and you score 20 or more points.
00:15:42
Speaker
One side of the ball is holding up that end of the bargain. The other side has... flunked epically on so many cases and i do agree with you like look there's so many layers to the like where is leflore responsible because it's like you're right he can't go out there and play for the guys and at the same time like have we entered the paradox of are there too many yes men in the room kind of like that's why i had the tweet earlier today that like you know, and everyone, cut not everyone, but a lot of people were like, why would you want Dable? But I'm like, if you're so, if you're LeFleur, and you're so hell bent on being this run heavy offense, then bring in another person who has that same mindset and you guys can brainstorm and see how you want to put together a better run game, utilize the pieces you have, whatever.
00:16:34
Speaker
Maybe Dable is the one that says like, you need an outside voice to be like, we need to shuffle this offensive line. I know it's the middle of the season, but it's not going to, it's not working. And more importantly, it's never going to work the way you have it right now.
00:16:48
Speaker
So like you have half a season to figure it out, shuffle the deck and go kind of thing. And my frustration to concern is like LeFleur is,
00:17:00
Speaker
just keeps turtling inward and going to, at some point, we're going to knock the dam down. we're not We're not even, like, splitting stones or anything. We're, like, barely dropping dirt off of it.
00:17:12
Speaker
But at some point, we're going to break through, and it's like, we're just getting washed further and further downstream kind of thing and stuff. And, like, you know, that side of it, I know we're not really going by our time. I feel like...
00:17:27
Speaker
just so We'll get into our topics here pretty quick. I was honestly trying to figure out how, like in the time between the game ending and to when we started recording, I struggled to put this into the context of how we usually run our post-game shows because I'm like, we're so close. you know and We don't do the like let the game breathe for a day kind of thing.
00:17:49
Speaker
Right now, it's I'm just like, I have no answers for this team because...
Injuries and Performance Impact
00:17:55
Speaker
They should be getting guys back healthy. i don't know when. We just found out Elton Jacobs broke something in his leg. He's done.
00:18:03
Speaker
Likely for the season. Probably as a packer for the rest of his career, in all honesty, which is an absolute shame for his career to end that way. You know, people are like, oh, Jaden Reed. I'm like, I don't know if by the time Jaden Reed is healthy, I don't know if it's going to matter.
00:18:17
Speaker
And I know that's like a really pessimistic way to view it, but realistically, Again, it goes back to what is LeFleur going to change? And that's my whole thing. And I totally understand what you're saying with Love hasn't been good enough. you know Is he regressing, stagnant, whatever? But I'm like, you're not good enough to win games the way you want to LeFleur.
00:18:40
Speaker
And every week... you know And that's the thing is like, you're not even just losing games to good teams by being this stubborn. You have lost two games to bad teams in this league by being this stubborn, this unwilling to go for fourth and shorts in plus or near plus territory.
00:19:02
Speaker
Choosing the decrepit kicker over and over and over again And o I tweeted this. This is three weeks in a row. Two games where he's lost you the game because you've totally either you've missed kicks, not attempted kicks, because you don't trust him.
00:19:19
Speaker
And honestly, the Pittsburgh game, if certain things don't play out in that one the way they do, that's three games in a row that... McManus has severely screwed you in games because he's just not up to the task of kicking.
00:19:33
Speaker
And people that are getting on the floor for, you know, oh, you wouldn't let him kick a 50-whatever yarder, but you have him kick a 64-yarder. I'm like, by that point, do you have any faith Love is going to... It's like, do you have any faith that Love is going to have time to but like run around to throw a 60-yard Hail Mary?
00:19:51
Speaker
i didn't. So, like, I know some people are like, oh, you've got to try the... I'm like... I mean, on the other side, like one of the things you brought up, he's trying to protect love.
00:20:01
Speaker
I do think he's looking at it like, well, I can't try another Hail Mary against the same team and have Jordan fuck up his knee two years in a row on a Hail Mary that, you know, what's the percent chance it's going to work? Like 10% maybe kind of thing.
00:20:15
Speaker
So I think he's like, fuck it. Let's just see if we get the kick. and yeah And like I said, that again goes to bad decision making.
00:20:28
Speaker
not sensing the pulse of your team, not leaning on the wrong people for determining decision, you know, to determine decisions and stuff. And like I said, I don't know what, like this is, like I said, it's three, three strikes. You're out.
00:20:44
Speaker
And McManus is still here. And, you know, he had the comment after the game, like, oh, this is the first week that I'm healthy. Dumbass, you cannot fucking say that when you're the one who's like, I'm i'm good to go. Like, that pissed me off so much when he came for him to come out and get in front of the media and say, oh, this is the first week that I'm, like, feeling healthy.
00:21:02
Speaker
Fuck you, bro. Like, fuck you.
Kicking Challenges and Defensive Praise
00:21:05
Speaker
Like, that is absolute fucking... fucking bullshit for you to get injured coming out of the bye and then the week of that week that you got injured you're like no I'm good it's like fuck you to come out here five weeks later because you shit the bed three weeks in a row and try to say oh this is the first week that I'm feeling healthy no get the fuck out of here with that crap that is absolute horse shit like I that is like you know I joke that Matt's a coward for not going for four thousand that that
00:21:36
Speaker
is a guy who knows that he should have been cut three weeks ago and is like doing what... I have no clue who he's got pictures of, who he's got dirt on, whatever.
00:21:48
Speaker
you know, some people are like, oh, Gudekunst. I'm like, Gudekunst doesn't want to look like the micromanager here. And he's trusting the two guys that are out there watching him practice every day. But like, sure, like if I was Gudekunst, would have cut his ass. And like, and you know, you notice that the people who got on us were being like, why are you active or why aren't you keeping Haverson active in Pittsburgh?
00:22:08
Speaker
Or, oh, you're just you're just reading too much into the 61-yard kick. No, the two of us both said we trusted the guy who put kicks down the middle of the fucking goalposts. And now that the old decrepit kicker is like, oh, oh shit, like...
00:22:24
Speaker
Like, you know, like that is so fucking chicken shit and cowardly to come out now after week for weeks. Basically, he was stabbing LeFleur in the back with his. Well, I told that I was fine.
00:22:38
Speaker
And LeFleur kind of like laughed it off and did the like, oh, I guess I don't talk to kickers kind of thing and stuff for you to come out now after Monday night and be like, oh, yeah, like, you know, I'm i'm just healthy.
00:22:49
Speaker
Get the fuck out of here. Go back to Jacksonville, you loser. Like, that's bullshit.
00:22:57
Speaker
Before you keep going on the rants, let's go ahead and just jump into our segments here and try to steer the show back to... I love this. and Steer the show back to... i found the angle.
00:23:11
Speaker
All right. So I'm going to hit the button. Mmm, fresh cheese. All right, was there anything that you can call good on that came out of this?
00:23:21
Speaker
Like I said, Edge had the forced fumble. Overall, the deep like I know some people are like, oh my god, the Valentine missed tackle, and then you know Evan Williams getting...
00:23:34
Speaker
supposedly the coverage safety getting lost in deep zone coverage. But at the end of the day, when you your defense gives up 10 points to a Super Bowl contending opponent, you expect to win that game.
00:23:47
Speaker
And like, yes, the the touchdown was unfortunate and all that kind of stuff, but that should have been enough. Absolutely should have been enough. So yeah, you know, and people are going to complain that they didn't get a sack and you forced the turnover to kill a drive. You kept, you know, even then like you, you, you played the way you wanted to and you were coming out ahead, like on a defense. Like if you, if you frame this game as just the defense, you're like the Packers should win this game.
00:24:19
Speaker
And so That's my fresh takeaway from the game is the defense did its job and played with some pride tonight. The only couple knocks that I think you could put on the defense for the night is, yes, I'm going to say they weren't able to wrangle in Hertz too well.
00:24:37
Speaker
they They were able to pressure the hell out of them, but they weren't able to connect. Now, that that's not like a horrible thing because you're right. They they held the the reigning Super Bowl champs to 10 points.
00:24:52
Speaker
queshawn yeah i had that great pass breakup but still didn't look great out there he allowed one of the big catches to was it davante yeah i think so i think it was davante yeah the third and 12 yeah and then Yeah, Evan was a little bit, but he he had some plays in there that were pretty solid.
00:25:17
Speaker
Like I said, we're talking about two plays out of what's the what's the total defensive Like oh hell we're talking about like three plays out of 60 where it's like, Oh my God, like what the hell happened kind of thing. And there was a couple more. You had the, like the long pass play to Goddard down the middle of the field. and But it's like, okay, one 12th of the game.
00:25:39
Speaker
You're like, Oh, but the rest of it, like I said, you hold, it you hold an opponent, you hold a Superbowl contender under 300 yards of offense in a game where you never led. And it's like,
00:25:52
Speaker
And that's an opponent that all they want to do is salt the game away. It's like, I can't ask for anything. Like, of course, I'd love a turn another turnover. Like, but they got you one.
00:26:04
Speaker
And you yeah did nothing with it. So, yeah. And, you know, late in the game, they they did let the Eagles drive a bit. that That kind of hurt because of the clock management type thing.
00:26:17
Speaker
But yeah. Nothing too much to complain on. I mean, they held Jalen to 183 passing yards. They held Saquon to 60 rushing yards. Jalen only managed 27 and Saquon only had the long of 15 and that was the longest run he had for the day.
00:26:35
Speaker
But I'm going to narrow mine down to even further than just the defense as a whole. I'm going to throw Carrington out there. Carrington played great. He did have a couple of spots where just like, eh, you know, I wish he would have done better. But, you know, covering who a couple of their top receivers,
00:26:55
Speaker
He was pretty well lights out for the game. And i i don't know if he's on drugs or in too many heads but head injuries or whatever, but that guy is goofy as hell, you know celebrating some of the weirdest things things out there. But I love to see it. I love seeing him get his shine, especially after whatever it was, why they weren't playing him.
00:27:22
Speaker
Giving him almost any snaps when Hobbs was quote-unquote healthy. The only drawback, and I can't believe I'm saying this, as two guys who have been heavily against picking him up, the only drawback is I wonder if this pretty much pushes Asante Samuel Jr. out.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, like yeah the thing with Asante Samuel Jr. is it's like, okay, he's medically cleared, but then it's the whole like, he's... and i think what people need to look at is like, he's looking for the team that he has the most clear path to a starting or heavy contributing role.
00:28:07
Speaker
Because from his point of view, he needs to play. And obviously he has to play well, but he needs to he just needs to play to have a chance to play well. And I don't know...
00:28:19
Speaker
realistically, it should probably be a decent shot in Green Bay, but Green Bay is not going to just come out and say like, oh yeah, you're going to come in and challenge these two guys right off the bat kind of thing. I don't think any team's going to give him that kind of shot. yeah And none of them's going to give him money because he's coming off the kind of injury that you're not going to guarantee money or anything like that. Yeah.
00:28:39
Speaker
Well, I said, I don't know if I actually put it on socials or if I just said it in our group chat. I'd be willing to do the the Christian Watson type deal. yeah Give him the rest of the season this year.
00:28:51
Speaker
Let him get back into game shape. Give him next year. You know, basically it would be a two-year deal this year, next year. And then if he plays well enough, he can go get his bag. If he if he plays middling, you hang on to him. what You know, you give him a minor...
00:29:07
Speaker
contract or whatever. But and like I said, this is from two guys that have been railing against signing Asante Samuel Jr. since the beginning. I do think they need the depth there.
00:29:20
Speaker
because we we are you know one injury away from kamal had and hayden being put in or bow melton put in not saying those are bad guys but once you do that you have no depth after that yeah that's the thing is like our whole thing against the samuel jr signing is it's like that would probably have been your only deal in the offseason at corner granted ours was nate hobbs so it's kind of like okay like what did you really get but at the time you look at nate hobbs who yes he's unfortunately continued his track record of having nagging injuries but asante samuel you didn't know if he was going play this year he's coming off of spinal fusion and you didn't know
00:30:06
Speaker
you as much as anyone wants to say like, Oh, he should be back. You don't know. Like you just don't know this whole he's ready before Thanksgiving.
00:30:17
Speaker
That was never a guarantee. No medical professional is going to come out and say that. And so that's we trying to jump in there. Even if he was cleared like he is now, we were guaranteed he's going to be cleared like he is now.
00:30:33
Speaker
Right. He's still got to get into game shape. Yes. Yep. So it's... So what we're trying to say is like our reservations in the offseason were he can't be the only move.
00:30:50
Speaker
Now this shows how dire your options are where it's like there are no good options on the free agent market. And I keep joking. It's geriatric Stefan Gilmore.
00:31:03
Speaker
possibly you don't know the long-term health, Asante Samuel Jr. And then like the other names on the free agent market, it's like old friend Kadar Holman. Like that's that's what's on the free agent market at corner. Like those are your options. don't know.
00:31:18
Speaker
I don't know what's on practice squads either. So, I mean, there could be maybe a practice god a squad guy, you know, maybe go back and get King from the Panthers practice squad or whatever, but like Robert Rochelle or something like that. They just couldn't quit for the last couple years, but like, or there's the guy out there on the practice squad, like a result Douglas that you can do that kind of pickup or whatever, but.
00:31:42
Speaker
I just back to my original point. I just hope this doesn't completely take that off the table. Yeah. because he, even though I don't think he's going to be starting from day one and I don't think any team's going to pick him up to start him at day one, unless it's like the Raiders or something.
00:31:58
Speaker
And I don't think anybody wants to go the Raiders and start from day one with the shit that's going on out there. But, he he would be a depth piece he would be a veteran debt depth depth piece he would be that boundary guy he would allow you if even if he comes in and plays at 80 percent and and can show that he he's the same guy as he was his rookie year that would allow you to move hobbs into his natural slot position june have him rotate around with bullard or whatever and
00:32:34
Speaker
and You know, again, that would be your depth piece and have Asante rotate in and out with with Valentine, who has looked damn good or just have him rotate in and out with with Nixon.
00:32:47
Speaker
Let Valentine go off in his little island or whatever you want to call it and have Samuels Jr. switch in and out with. oh Nixon, because again, i have said this since they've released Jair. I've said this since he he made the comment. and yeah and i I don't know. I think it was in the offseason or last season or whatever.
00:33:11
Speaker
Nixon is not a true number one corner. You're lucky if he's even a true number two. He's at best. Yeah. So, but anyway, i narrowed it down to Carrington Valentine.
00:33:27
Speaker
He's been looking great. You know, yeah you hope this continues with him, but it also goes to show something else that we have talked about, especially last week against the Panthers.
00:33:39
Speaker
When you have a good pass rush, it makes your corners look a lot better. And when you don't play scared off zone, you look a lot better.
00:33:50
Speaker
yep and even though you know the packers did come out on the losing end tonight the corners looked a lot better the defense looked a lot better they didn't look scared i think there was one moment and i can't it's boggling my mind even for some reason halfley looked down it's like what the is going on out there yeah yeah i think you're And you're talking, what i couldn't watch the game because fuck you, Disney.
00:34:21
Speaker
I told you. I'm a family man with kids now. that Unfortunately, the pirate life is behind me. but
00:34:31
Speaker
Oh, the old Marisol's laughing.
00:34:36
Speaker
But let's see. I did see the one where... forget who tweeted it. I'm sorry that I'm not giving credit. But it wasn't just one person. There were a couple tweets that were the whole... Halfley just looked down and was kind of you can see him mouth where's Parsons.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah. that could been hit too But it just seemed like he said like, what the fuck's going on out there? yeah And, and that was kind of weird that they he would be missing for like good chunks of drives.
00:35:07
Speaker
And that was just really weird. I don't know if, you know, it's still his back is bothering him or I guess he had that injury with the chest or whatever. But anyway, you got anything else you want to consider fresh?
00:35:21
Speaker
I mean, there's a low hanging one just because they force fed him and that's Josh Jacobs again. He did really good with what little that he was given. He did steal another soul tonight.
00:35:33
Speaker
We need to keep like like a tracker of these, just how many souls he steals in games and at the end of it. But other than that, is there anybody else you can really throw out there or any other things you can throw out there?
00:35:45
Speaker
my My asshole off the wall one is, thank you, Brandon McManus, for proving me right about what I was saying three weeks ago. i Musgraves. He actually stayed on his feet after making a long catch, so I got to give that to him. Yeah, and like I know people are like kind of giving, but I'm like, again, LeFleur is using him for the stuff he used crap for, and it's it's never going to look the same. and like And at the same time, it's the whole like,
00:36:14
Speaker
No, it's not as good as Kraft did it, but it still got you eight yards. Like, you got spell yeah that and you got to spam that and then spam the play off of that. Like, that's the part. Mutt Graves is never going to be your break the tackle, you know, push the drive. Yeah, he's too high-hipped and unbalanced to do that. But yeah. And ballerina-legged.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. So, no. I think I'm done with Fresh unless you got any more that are hanging, Beth.
00:36:42
Speaker
No, not that I know of. I'm trying to run through the game.
00:36:49
Speaker
Sorry, that kind of hurt. I guess you can kind of throw Josh Wiley in there because he was doing a heck of a job as like their fullback.
00:36:59
Speaker
uh, protector. Sure. Like I said, I didn't get to watch the game. So he had some pretty solid lead blocks there. So that really helped Josh Jacobs out. i I know they went away from it because of what was going on, but if this would have been a normal game where, you know, the Packers were driving at will, that would have been a real plus, especially for a guy that's just coming off of the practice squad. so I I'm trying to look at the bright side that you could tell that they were missing the hell out of tucker craft tonight yeah that's for sure and they have nobody on the roster that that's going to be able to fill tucker's spot so no all right i'll hit the button what's this deal do you got anything that's going to fit in the stale
00:37:45
Speaker
I know. I can't think anything that's going to be – maybe some of the things that I talked about defensive-wise could go in the stale. Yeah, like I guess, like, the one – the only negative for Carrington is a big one. It's the missed tackle on the screen.
00:37:58
Speaker
And, okay, I'm not making a suit. That's never going to be a strong suit. And for all the people that are like, oh, my God – I'm like – You act like he's the first guy that Saquon did that to.
00:38:09
Speaker
He's not the first. He won't be the last. Like, it's not... And on top of that, if your corners are... I know they're defensive players, but but you shouldn't expect your corners to make those giant friggin' tackles.
00:38:21
Speaker
And, like... They're they're there to... They're kind of like a road cone that just tells you, hey don't go past this cone and know long enough for the the other big guys to come in and and make the play.
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah. So, like.
00:38:41
Speaker
I can't think anything that's going to be strictly stale.
00:38:45
Speaker
Like i said, just just some of the things that I've already talked about on the defense. yeah so Yeah, we'll just go ahead and... It's a moldy cheese.
00:38:55
Speaker
and and I've already talked about it. Jordan Love, he's really looked regressed the last couple of weeks. Right. and and I don't know how chicken or egg it is and stuff. like And I don't know when we're going to really find out.
00:39:08
Speaker
We know that but we've seen that guy, the good the good of Jordan Love. We've seen him as recently as two weeks ago. And we see it on plays here. Even though like the the throw the couple of throws he made to Watson tonight you know for the couple longer throws.
00:39:22
Speaker
the one that got called back on the illegal formation. Like, you see the flashes of that guy still in there. And like you said... i don't I don't know what you got to do to get more out of him from that.
00:39:37
Speaker
Like I said, I think you're at the point that I think you do have to start taking drastic measures. It's sort of getting into that Eric Stokes-Valentine conversation we had last year where it's like, this team has made it very clear they don't want Rasheed Walker back next season.
00:39:55
Speaker
They probably don't care if Sean Ryan is back next season. So again, why are you wasting time and snaps with Jordan Morgan at center? Who, by the way, on that ill-fated fourth down play late in the game, is in Jacob's lap in the backfield.
00:40:12
Speaker
like and And you traded for this guy from Philly, and he's not seeing the fielder on anything except for to tonight he was in as the extra guy. Yeah, which solved one of our questions going into the game. but Right.
00:40:26
Speaker
So I agree. i fully agree on that. But you could tell he was scared. And you can't be jumpy in that situation. Yes, I totally agree with you with that is that...
Offensive Strategies and Coaching Debate
00:40:40
Speaker
while I am frustrated and obstinate that LaFleur has to, like, I'm so tired of the first two plays of a game being a run kind of thing. Like this team can, and honestly, this was a, discussion like Collinsworth was bringing it up in that Seattle game last year where it's like, it's great that you got the good Jacobs, but there's conversations of like, well, you know, the Packers passing game, is it getting off to slow starts because you don't throw the ball early enough?
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah. And while I'm totally on the side of you do have to get the pass game going early, you do have to get Jordan in rhythm, I totally agree that like Jordan hadn't really been hit yet, and he was already wild and a little erratic and stuff like that.
00:41:26
Speaker
And I don't know like if he saw stuff in the run game that it's like, oh, God, like the interior is already getting taken advantage of and all that of And at the same time,
00:41:37
Speaker
Like I said, as much as I don't like even former quarterbacks over-critiquing, like, how did this guy miss this look? Because I think former quarterbacks of all people really need to tone that kind of talk down.
00:41:50
Speaker
I don't mind when they talk about, like, you've seen the throw and you missed the throw. Because, like, that that part of it, I agree. Like, there's a... But when they do the whole, like, oh, he's got to see that. I'm like, I...
00:42:04
Speaker
I've played football or I played quarterback on an organized peewee team. That's as high as I played quarterback on. And even at that level, the like learning to throw between windows in your linemen, learning how to make your reach to where you can see between your linemen and stuff like that.
00:42:22
Speaker
And then when you have to adjust for your right guard doesn't have bricks in his back pocket and can't hold his water. Your left tackle, you don't know if he's going to block the right guy on us on a consistent play-to-play basis.
00:42:37
Speaker
Like, you start to add all those things in, and this doesn't at all excuse Jordan. Like you said, at the very base of it, Jordan's got to be better. Jordan is not blameless in tonight's game.
00:42:49
Speaker
I don't even want to say he played good enough because, like, Like there were enough plays he could have made that, you know, were either dropped or, you know, whatever kind of thing, you know, Jacobs looks the wrong way on a, on a route and all that kind of crap.
00:43:04
Speaker
And at the same time, he definitely missed as many of the, as there were of those where guys dropped it or whatever it is kind of thing. The frustration I have is, yeah, I don't know what the solution is because like i said, we just saw, we saw unconscious good Jordan as recently as the second half of the Steelers game two weeks ago.
00:43:23
Speaker
And that front is honestly rushing the passer better than the Eagles are. And I know that the Eagles have two better corners than the the Steelers have two corners. and yeah But I'm like, it shouldn't be that bad.
00:43:41
Speaker
And I don't like the, oh... Tucker and like you had a whole week where you knew you didn't have Tucker. It's not like Tucker got injured on the first play of tonight.
00:43:51
Speaker
Like to me, i have always hated when people turn to that, like he's gone. You knew he was gone. You probably knew honestly, he was gone during the Carolina game and you looked as inept Tonight for most of this game, as you did late in that Carolina game.
00:44:08
Speaker
And that's inexcusable, both from a coaching and a quarterback play standpoint. So, yeah, I agree. I don't know how to fix that, but I'm also not the one paid to fix that, which goes into my moldy.
00:44:20
Speaker
And it's like, and I brought it up at the top. And like I said, I'm i'm not at the fire. And, you know, I see people turn. yeah I love Joe Arrigo.
00:44:31
Speaker
And he put out one of those, like, okay, like, who do you want and stuff? And we've gone back and forth a little bit. And, you know, he goes, and, you know, because I put out Halfley is probably, like, the first option to, like, get elevated if you were to move on.
00:44:44
Speaker
And then, like, you know, like a Joe Brady or someone like that. And then I just threw out, fuck of here. I remember his name, the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma. And Joe rightfully is like, they're not hiring a college OC. And I said, Joe, honestly, that just shows how much I didn't expect to be here at this point that I'm this far along with being potentially done with LaFleur.
00:45:10
Speaker
Like, Like I said, i said it earlier in this episode, you and I have gone back and forth about, you know, like, okay, there's some repeated problems with how he calls games, your whole joke with the, does he really think we only have 500 points a season to score? And like, you know, we were having fun joking about it in week two. It ain't fun right now in week eight.
00:45:35
Speaker
And, you know... Like I said, there's been a lot of people who have said like you're just over complaining about little things who have gotten really quiet over the last three to four weeks.
00:45:46
Speaker
A bunch of them about McManus and a lot of them about LeFleur are running out of ways to excuse a lot of like like we both. I definitely do agree with you. Jordan has to play better.
00:45:58
Speaker
But my whole thing with LaFleur is I don't think this run game is getting better. Without doing something drastic like shuffling this old line around, I don't think this old this run game is getting better.
00:46:09
Speaker
I think this run game is, as you call the offense now, is going to be predicated on how many guys can Jacobs drag for how many yards.
00:46:22
Speaker
And that cannot be the backbone of your offense. And like I said,
00:46:29
Speaker
You know, I'm getting pretty sick of of couple people, of not a couple. There's a bunch of people within the Green Bay beat that are doing the, is LeFleur afraid of Jordan?
00:46:39
Speaker
He better, like, we've been saying it for a month. He better fucking get unafraid of Jordan. Because he ain't lasting through November calling this kind of lame duck shit offense. Like, they are going to get... that They're not just going to lose games.
00:46:54
Speaker
They're going to get embarrassed on Thanksgiving. They're probably going to get embarrassed by the Vikings if they if he doesn't... And that's the thing is, like, my concern is there's this...
00:47:06
Speaker
look And I agree with you. He did try to like adjust at halftime and stuff, but at his core, he keeps when the, when things start to not work, it's like, I got to just turn around and hand the ball off. It doesn't matter that it's only gaining two yards of carry.
00:47:21
Speaker
And it's like, just kneel and punt or punt on third down. Like what, what? Cause now, you know what it's like being an Iowa Hawkeyes fan.
00:47:35
Speaker
But I'm going to interrupt you here because no go i I want to throw some of the stuff in there too.
00:47:42
Speaker
One of the stale or one of the moldies that I'm going to throw out there that kind of goes with what you're talking about are the people who are saying, well, he needs to give up play calling.
00:47:54
Speaker
Who's he going to give it up to? i don't I don't trust Stinovich to call plays. We see what he does. and on the We saw it in the preseason. It's going to be a worse version of LeFleur. And that's my Michigan Wolverine.
00:48:06
Speaker
i like That's the guy who kept Jake Long from starting as a redshirt sophomore. like That is a decorated former Michigan Wolverine. And I love what he did as an O-line coach.
00:48:17
Speaker
That's another... really fifth layer LaFleur panicking over Stanovich getting, you know, getting job offers after Hackett left and all that kind of stuff.
00:48:30
Speaker
Like, but you know what's funny is they let him go on the interviews and he's never got job offers. Right. and well And like, I know it's hard to, to, to like stick to this in the moment, but Offensive line coaches very rarely become offensive coordinators unless they get promoted kind of thing.
00:48:48
Speaker
Like the few are Stenovich and like Tom Moore, who was, you know, who was Peyton Manning's offensive coordinator. But it's like, Peyton's like, give me the O-line coach so that we can like, you know, I'm going to, he basically is the passing game coordinator. And I just need the the offensive line guy to like coach these guys up and protect me kind of thing.
00:49:10
Speaker
But like, I think I do, and this isn't a thing that's going to get fixed now, but I do think that LaFleur's offensive staff has hit that stagnation point, kind of like McCarthy's did at several points in his like middle to late tenure in Green Bay, where it's kind of like, you had the same voices in the room for too long. You know, you've had some guys who've left like Getzey and come back kind of thing.
00:49:35
Speaker
And I agree, like, And those are kind of like the same, like I said, with the whole, you know, oh, who are you going to get that's better than Lil Floor?
00:49:47
Speaker
That cannot be the basis of why you keep someone at this point. Because whether you believe it's a top-down or a part-down, like...
00:50:00
Speaker
at some point you have to have a heart to heart where it's like, okay, why is our O-line play falling off? Is it because Stenevich isn't coaching them full time? Like, all right, Adam, like, you know,
00:50:14
Speaker
we'll still pay you like you're getting paid right now. You'll be the highest paid fucking O-line coach in the NFL, but we need you to coach O-linemen. And, you know, if he can't handle the demotion, then it's like, hey, James Campion, can you come back and coach O-line again kind of thing and stuff? that kind of goes into what I...
00:50:34
Speaker
Because, you know, it's usually the offensive coordinat coordinator that is instilling the stuff in, you know, the gameplays to the players. So while we sit here and complain about LeFleur's play calling and that, why isn't the offensive coordinator prepping these guys for what they need to be?
00:50:53
Speaker
And that's the whole, we're not a fly on the wall in any of these. We don't know how LeFleur operates. you know like my My belief has always been when you have an offensive-minded head coach, whichever whichever side of the ball a head coach you know comes from traditionally, that's the side like they're the de facto coordinator kind of thing. And then like the the coordinator becomes like the most...
00:51:19
Speaker
highly regarded quality control coach ever in the, you know, in in relative terms kind of thing. And so, yeah, like, like I said, the coaching side of it, I don't think is going to change in season. it would For even LaFleur, like as much as I'm frustrated, you're frustrated, whatever, that's not, like I said, the only way LaFleur gets fired in season is if they just fall off the table the rest of November and they look like a dead stick.
00:51:47
Speaker
The only thing coaching wise that I could see happening is bringing in somebody, not this person specifically, but do what like they did with Sala. Yeah. and And, you know, bring back and Nathaniel Hackett as an advisor or, you know, like you said, dabble as an advisor or yeah somebody else that is from the coaching tree that You know that they know the system that they can come in and say hey We know this isn't working so we need to start doing this right? We know this isn't working so we need to work on this because I have a feeling that's the whole issue right now is that he's got a bunch of yes, man And they're just saying yeah. yeah Yes coach. Yeah. Yeah, that right coach. Yeah, you're good the only and you know, that's as much as I joke about Luke Buckus or it just
00:52:38
Speaker
you know how i joke about i wouldn't want to tell him he's fired either and and stuff like that but he's obviously not doing as good of a job as kind of it did yeah like it's not even necessarily that it's a bad it's just not as good as when stanovich was the o-line coach like that's that's just the fact i get that there were better you know there's not a bakhtiari or a prime jenkins or whatever kind of thing but the overall play of this O-line, you know, Stenevich had Runyon Jr. playing like a fringe pro bowler.
00:53:09
Speaker
He had Myers looking solid as a rookie kind of thing and all, you know, and he had Billy Turner able to play either tackle spot and you're getting run out of, oh shoot, what was that tall guy they got from the Titans? But yeah, like... Oh, yeah.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kelly, Kelly. yeah But yeah, like, you know, you're just not getting that kind of return on investment anymore. and And on top of that, why aren't they saying, Hey, maybe we need to slot this guy in over at this position. Hey, why aren't we moving this guy?
00:53:46
Speaker
One thing that I've been thinking about this whole time and now with Elton and most likely done for the season, at least a season. I'm not going to say done for the, you know, as a pack whatever. I'm just going to say done for the season because I'm living one season at a time.
00:54:03
Speaker
They keep talking about how Zach Tom could be an all pro center. Does this mean that it's just, instead of forcing Sean Ryan out there and having even worse offensive line play?
00:54:19
Speaker
Or do you slot in this guy that you keep talking about could be an all-pro center and then sticking a canard or a Belton or whatever at right tackle? Then you can move you know Morgan over to left tackle if you want.
00:54:34
Speaker
I still believe in Rasheed Walker, but for some reason the Packers don't. I know he's had – and one play today would was he misread something, but, you know, that's a misread. You can't really, you know, completely blame him on that. He just misread it.
00:54:52
Speaker
But I the whole point is is that's why I say that I think he's just got a full complement of yes men in the offensive oh coaching staff.
00:55:05
Speaker
Because – and – I keep fucking saying it and I keep saying it. He needs to cut the damn cord on Versace already because I think he's listening way too much to Rich.
00:55:16
Speaker
That's why we're stuck with McManus. That's why they keep pulling. That's why they have a three-year deal on Orsic now. That's why they have all this shit going on. He keeps listening to the guy and he's not helping out any.
00:55:31
Speaker
No. And like I said, that... falls on the floor. Like, that is your guy. And I get it. Like, i've I've gone out either on here or just on Twitter and said, like, as much as everyone thinks it's just so easy to move on from coordinator, coordinator, coordinator on special teams, like...
00:55:53
Speaker
there is a breaking point where you, you know, it's a small pond and people aren't going to want to work from you because it's like, at the first sign of trouble, you're like, I am going to be like the fan saying, just fire the special teams court. Like you can't, you can't have a new one every season kind of thing, unless like that guy is somehow getting hired for better job every season. Like that, that's not a tenable thing.
00:56:16
Speaker
And at the same time, you're completely right where it's like,
00:56:20
Speaker
can't continue to lean on your expertise if it ain't working out kind of thing and quote expertise and like you know you hear the stories that they don't necessarily watch film you know how much are they repping certain things that besace is more of a feel guide you know he's like an old school feel and vibes coach then he is like a advanced metrics and statistics and especially tell you what He can feel and vibe himself in the corner while the rest of them do the their actual frigging job.
00:56:52
Speaker
Feel and vibe in the corner. That's Brandon McManus's music. but So i I don't know. And I don't want to keep beating a dead horse on this. So what else do you want to kind of bring up? Or is that all we really want to it do for that? Just for one more. So that's actually in the segment.
00:57:13
Speaker
a hearty fuck you to Brandy McManus for trying to pull that chicken shit interview how, oh yeah, like, okay, wait, know what? You know what? I'm going to be it fair and get as good of a quote on this bullshit as I can And while he's pulling this up, I want to tell all the listeners that I have been trying to talk Mike into having his own little segment as as a sideshow, as Mike's Tantrums, where he can just go off on these things and, you know, maybe we'll make you guys pay for it because these are some of the funnest things in the world to listen to.
00:57:50
Speaker
Even Marisol, his wife sits back and laughs at the shit that he says when he gets pissed. But like, oh fuck, of course I can't find a goddamn tweet right now. Fuck, this is pissing me off.
00:58:02
Speaker
But yeah, for him to come out, like I said, he injures himself coming out of the bye because he's old. And what do what do we hear all that week going into the Cincinnati game? I'm kicking, I'm fine.
00:58:18
Speaker
And, you know, he gets mad at LaFleur for saying it was a potentially, you know, big issue and long potentially long-term injury. And Matt has to laugh it off with the, oh, I guess I don't talk to the kicker's joke. Ha ha ha.
00:58:31
Speaker
For you to come out five weeks later... where I guarantee you, and Tosher called him out on it that, you know, after the Pittsburgh game that he's like, I think McManus felt the heat, you know, Haversick comes in, he's perfect, he kicks the franchise record kick, and you're like, and he goes, hey, I've been there as a veteran, and I've thought, oh, shit, I gotta go ahead get my job back kind of thing, but it's like, dude, you're hurting the team, and like I said,
00:59:03
Speaker
You're like a razor's edge from it being three games in a row. Basically, the team would be back at 500 that you screwed the Packers by shanking kicks or just being so unreliable that LeFleur is like, I can't kick from here.
00:59:21
Speaker
like that's Like I said, it doesn't absolve Jordan, but I know in... Floor's mind. And I know somewhere in Jordan's mind, at the end of the second quarter, Jordan's like, I can't fucking lose. you We're on the 30-yard line.
00:59:35
Speaker
If I lose yards, I actually need to gain yards because I was on the 27 and this dude shanked one from 44. And i I think Justice Mosqueda retweeted someone else's where he said...
00:59:50
Speaker
He's 3-for-9 on kicks outside of the red zone. That's a fucking abysmal rate. And some of those... I know most of those are after the injury. But some of those are before.
01:00:01
Speaker
And... Like I said... It absolutely astonishes me that because he came in and kicked two game winners in his first two games as a Packer, people were ready to just take bullets for Denver Mason Crosby with an off-field track record.
01:00:20
Speaker
like It seems to me there were two guys that are on a low-listen podcast that kept telling people that You know, McManus is not the answer. McManus is not the answer. But they kept thinking he was the golden goose. And this isn't even for us to say that Haversek definitely is the answer.
01:00:38
Speaker
But this is two games in a row where he has changed how LeFleur has called the game because... starting with the Carolina game, he shanks the 40, whatever yarder.
01:00:49
Speaker
And what did I say? It's like a baseball player or a golfer where you know that you can't hit for power anymore. And so what do you do? You start pulling the ball to your, your, you start pulling to your power side because you're like, I gotta just reach back and crank with whatever I can crank with.
01:01:06
Speaker
And that's why he's pulling them to the left is because he's like, I just got to get under this thing and pull it. And, I knew. i was like, honestly, with the 64-yarder, was like, just don't call timeout Philly.
01:01:23
Speaker
if I just need him to go and run into this and kick it because... If he comes up short, which he did on the practice, i was like, there is no way he's making the actual one. because Was it tipped or something? Or was that just a horrible frigging shank on that actual try? So what some people are saying is that Orzic's snap, surprise, surprise, was bad on the on the the real kick.
01:01:47
Speaker
And that threw off the timing. But i was like... he didn't have a chance in hell because he saw he came up like a yard or two short and was like, okay, so if I just knocked the slobber on it like an inch higher, kind of because, you know, you you like he's like, okay, I got a little under it, so if I hit it a little higher, it's going to do that. You know how Crosby would do that thing where he would kind of knuckle it That weird knuckle, yeah. Yeah.
01:02:11
Speaker
And he so he's like, if I hit it almost mid-stripe, middle of the ball, like you hit it like a couple inches lower than middle of the ball, it's going to get me enough loft to get over the line. And it's going to knuckle its way through kind of thing. i was like, he's going to fucking throw it into the back of someone's head. Like, this is like, there's no way.
01:02:28
Speaker
But yeah. And then I had someone say like, oh, Orzic snap was bad. I was like, that's another LeFleur and Basaccia. We've been playing that for the last two, three years. Like I said, Dan Whelan got two guys extensions and he got them extensions before he got an extension. God damn it.
01:02:47
Speaker
So and I don't know. I just I'm to the point where. And the thing is, is they're keeping both of them on the frigging roster. Why not keep them both active?
01:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. And like, because I would have there is no rule that says if he kicks it on a practice one and completely whiffs that you can't bring in the other kicker
01:03:13
Speaker
there's there's no rule against that well and there are guys that they could have they could have sat that would have been just fine but then looking okay i have one more stale and this is going to be more my rant because it's some stupid ass i don't know who's making the decisions on this but you brought christian welch up you signed him to the friggin active roster you didn't play him one bit you never used any of his elevations prior to bringing him up to the active roster you didn't use him once you release him luckily you're able to resign him back to the practice squad nobody picked him up then following that you elevate him for a freaking game why
01:04:01
Speaker
what What is the thought process there? You could have left him on the active friggin' roster and you wouldn't have to use any elevations. I get it. Maybe Mosby was out of elevations or whatever.
01:04:14
Speaker
But then you should have just signed Mosby to the active roster instead of potentially exposing Welch to Waver. And that that was the part that I couldn't understand. Because i was like... Because they like signed Welch, and then they elevated Mosby, played Mosby, and then cut Welch or whatever.
01:04:32
Speaker
And yeah, it... Like, my whole thing with it is, like, you had just lost Ben Sims to waivers. Like, you literally were a week out from losing. And how's that doing for the team right now?
01:04:43
Speaker
Yeah. And you had literally just been going, like, oh, we had wanted to get him back to the practice squad. That wasn't good at guns. That's a like, and I'm sure there's a little bit of like, oh, back and forth with like LeFleur and therefore Bisaccia like, who's the more important specialties player, blah, blah, blah.
01:05:01
Speaker
I know that it's a little more one-to-one because Nick Neiman was a linebacker, is a linebacker and Welch is a linebacker, but it's like, Like you said, Mosby was either about to be out or out of elevations.
01:05:17
Speaker
Welch hadn't had any use. And it's like, so if you aren't sure, just bring Mosby up and just elevate Welch as you need to kind of thing and stuff. And like, yeah, that one is just a weird, weird, weird, like...
01:05:33
Speaker
it it It was such a weird roster management decision. Like I said, and if it was the only one, it wouldn't have raised the red flag as much. But the fact that it came literally on the heels of losing Ben Sims to waivers, that was the part that I was like, did we not learn any? did Did you not fucking learn anything from? On top of that, this comes off of last year when they cut him at the end of the preseason and he signed elsewhere.
01:05:59
Speaker
So you're taking the the chance that he's not going to want to come back to Green Bay. He's going to look for an opportunity elsewhere. So yeah I don't get it. I think it's mostly I get good. It is the one that has to do the transaction actions and all that stuff.
01:06:17
Speaker
But he's also got to rely on what the coaches tell him. Right. He can go up to the floor, say, OK, which guy are you who is expendable to you on the roster? Right. Because we have to bring somebody up. We have to do this.
01:06:30
Speaker
And if LeFleur and Basaccia, and if LeFleur goes to Basaccia and say, hey, Rich, who are you wanting for special teams? And that's who he's telling them. Then that's the way it goes. You know, I can't put it all on Goody. I can't put it all on LeFleur.
01:06:45
Speaker
when it's win chair Yeah. And at least with the Sims ones, it's like, okay, yeah, we got to bring Christian back. And it's like, okay, you're going to lose an offensive player for another. And no, like no one could have known Kraft was going to blow his knee out literally a week later. Like that's just cascading shit luck kind of stuff.
01:07:05
Speaker
But the Welch-Mosby situation was so weird because, and like I said, this is neither of us thinking either of these guys is going to be a Hall of Famer anything close to that. But it's like, you definitively could you just lost a guy because you had to cut him and were you know you were hoping to get him back to the practice squad and you couldn't because someone signed him.
01:07:28
Speaker
And... Like, just, okay, so, like, for example, like, Welch getting cut going to the Broncos last year. Alex Singleton just had to have, you know, he had to have surgery to remove testicular cancer.
01:07:40
Speaker
If you had done this cutting this week, the Broncos might have signed him off of waivers to cut. And so it's, like, it's, like, that kind of, like... And they still can sign him because he's only on the practice squad. Right.
01:07:51
Speaker
But at least, you know, in the waiver process, they're like more guaranteed to get him as opposed to the whole, like, it's like more of a negotiation signing him off the practice squad and stuff. So it's like,
01:08:03
Speaker
I know that most people will look at these kind of things like, oh, it's not that big of a deal, but it's like, it is because you're trying to like manage all of these roster decisions. You, the whole point is that Welch is a guy who's been in what, you know, Welch Mosby. Those are guys who have been in your system for multiple seasons kind of thing.
01:08:21
Speaker
And it's like, And honestly, if, and, you know, people are gonna say, like oh you know, you're just saying this because Welch went to... If they had done the same thing and lost Mosby to waivers, i I would be as irritated because it's like, like, why did you risk it when you, like, didn't, you know, if, like, Welch was the one out of elevations and Mosby had all his elevations and you, like, signed to him, didn't use him, cut him, and he gets claimed, and then it's like...
01:08:48
Speaker
Why didn't you just bring Christian up in the first place kind of thing? So, yeah, it is just the whole Iowa thing, even though, yes, Welch went because I on top of the whole Welch situation, you knew you were going to be down a couple of guys for wide receiver.
01:09:05
Speaker
You knew, well, you didn't know that Dobbs was going to end up going out with a chest injury, but you knew you had a guy on that's active that's going to be limited because he's just coming back from a major knee s surgery.
01:09:17
Speaker
You knew all this stuff. You have a guy that, I do like Bo Melton. I like, you know, he is what he is. But you've been training him all offseason and throughout the season as a cornerback, and you're going to make him then go and play wide receiver again when you've got guys on the practice squad that you could have called up and and i know some people are going to be like oh like but only michael wood's only been there like a week or two Keeney James and Nair. Yeah.
01:09:49
Speaker
Isaiah Nair and Jacoby Keeney James. They've both been there the whole season. Like those guys. And Will Shepard. Will Shepard's on the practice squad too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have you have three receivers who have been there the whole of the 10 weeks. at A couple of them and Shepard and Nair have been there the whole like training camp on kind of thing.
01:10:09
Speaker
And it's like, I like Melton's athleticism, all that kind of stuff It's like, you cannot tell me, or that is a severe indictment on your coaching that you are more confident in a guy who is playing a totally, not even like a different position on offense. He's not even on offense.
01:10:26
Speaker
And that you're like, I'm going to bring this guy back to offense over these guys who have been practicing these positions all season. Like on top of that, isn't the kid from Maine also like a special teams ace?
01:10:39
Speaker
So that would have helped out a ton with with kick and punt returns and Will Shepard was doing some of that shit during the preseason and was looking pretty decent with it like I said this is where my whole thing with LaFleur is like there's just so many layers where it's like there's just so many multiple on multiple like organizational cracks that are have formed that you're like oh god like he's gonna run out of fingers to plug the holes in the wall before it all comes crashing down on him and like I said
01:11:12
Speaker
I'm still clinging to the whole, because he's a good guy. Like, LeFleur is a good guy. He's a good dude. Well, maybe. I've heard some things so far. And we're not talking about the Xbox content creator. like know take No, no.
01:11:29
Speaker
But like, I do want to see, like, i the the like nostalgic sports fan in me always wants to see the guy who builds something get to see the fruits of his labor and his creation come true kind of thing. Like, that's sort of like the whole romanticization of sports and But...
01:11:46
Speaker
Like I said, you know we keep i keep going back to what we were talking about. you know You and I debated in week two, should we be concerned that this game, that that Washington game was a one-score game midway through the fourth quarter?
01:11:59
Speaker
And you were concerned, and I wrote it off as like, they're kind of limited. They're dealing with a limited O-line, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. The O-line's gotten healthier, and we're still seeing the same problems.
01:12:10
Speaker
like And like I said, God, jar are you trying to say I'm smart or something? Or I know what I'm talking about? Yes. And it just gets to the point, like I said, you know, and LeFleur was asked, like, you know, do you feel like you're coaching for your, you know like, and I see people complain, like, you didn't ask. I'm like, they asked him as much as they're going to ask a coach who's still in the playoff picture.
01:12:35
Speaker
And on top of that, you're not going to get a true answer out of him. no, no. Yeah. And I think LaFleur's answer is a good one that like, you know, he's like, he didn't just say, fuck you. Like he didn't blow off the question. and He gave like a, Hey, we're all coaching for some kind of job, whether it's the one I've got or the next one kind of thing. And like,
01:12:53
Speaker
Some people don't like that answer, but that's the that's the answer for him, every coach, every player on a roster kind of thing. And we all know the truth anyway, yes, because Ed Policy came out and said he's not going to extend these guys. He'll look at it at the end of the season yeah and go from there.
01:13:08
Speaker
Well, so far, Goody has been the only one that saved his job. Yeah, and even moody Goody, Goody's still got some holes on the roster that he's got to address, but Goody's the one who, hey, I pushed all my chips in, and like I said,
01:13:23
Speaker
But but i also go back to the fact that he's also having to listen to what his coaches are telling him. Right. You can't to go out and sign a guy and say, here, you're stuck with him. Right. You know, that that's what we used to yell about with Ted Thompson is he'd just go out and sign a guy from Buck Wheat college backwoods, North Dakota or whatever and and say, here, you you fix him. You you do something with him. Yeah. so yeah Yeah, I agree. like you know People like blast Gudakunds for the, oh, we like our corner room.
01:13:57
Speaker
We don't know if that's Gutekun saying that or if it's Halfley saying that or if it, you know, we don't know if that's a hive mind thing or if it's one side telling the other that we're fine. You know, I can make it, you know, Halfley saying like, if you give me a Micah Parsons, I'll make all this other stuff work. kind of they Like, we don't know.
01:14:15
Speaker
But Gutekun is the one who's taking his nuts and put them on the table. And it's getting to the point where LeFleur has got to do the same. And it's like, like I said,
01:14:27
Speaker
and not all the I'm definitely not all the way there yet on Firehammer, but he's got to make some wholesale changes to show, like like i said, my thing is, do you understand what your who your team is and what they're good at doing?
01:14:41
Speaker
So far, I'm concerned he doesn't see it or doesn't want to see it. And that's the part where i'm like, I don't know if it's a wholesale O-line alignment change, if it's an offensive philosophy change.
01:14:53
Speaker
Do something. Like, just do something because banging, literally banging your head against the wall with this run game is not going to get you anywhere this postseason. It might not even get you to the postseason.
01:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, and to your point with the wholesale offensive line change, he's going to have to do it anyway. With them losing Jenkins, they're going to have to shuffle that line. I cannot see Sean Ryan being the starting center going forward.
01:15:20
Speaker
i mean And I do think he was actually okay at center today. But yeah, like you cannot just say he played decently in the second half. We're good with it. like You've got to... like really like I don't know how they really feel. you know They just cut Lucita Smith from the practice squad.
01:15:37
Speaker
i don't know how they feel about Monk. I think Monk is a center only. And so it's like, you got to at the very worst have him and Ryan really duke it out for that. starting center spot now.
01:15:49
Speaker
I wouldn't move Tom yet just because if he were healthy, I would think about it. But I still think like he's been dealing with injury all season long and you've just not had any sort of continuity.
01:16:03
Speaker
So it's like you want to have one certain thing in life. but And it would be one thing if Belton had been healthy this whole time. but it's kind of like that might be too many deck chairs on the Titanic kind of thing.
01:16:17
Speaker
But like I said, the one that I'm looking at is, and you're right, like Walker has his moments. And at the same time, the way I look at it is it's such a Stokes Valentine situation to be where it's like, and it's past the, because the Stokes one, it was like, if Stokes showed any signs that he was going to be the player he was as a rookie, they would have kept in him around. They would have found a way to keep him around, but he couldn't and he's gone.
01:16:43
Speaker
With Walker, the so the stuff I'm hearing from like four different reporters or people with insight is like, they're done they're like they're just playing the season out and whatever happens, happens with you know in terms of comp pick recoupment from him.
01:16:57
Speaker
so I'm kind of like, if that's the case, like he's not getting any value by playing. So just pull the ripcord and move on at this point. You keep saying that Morgan is your left tackle moving forward.
01:17:10
Speaker
I believe it more than I ever did going into this season after seeing how he played in the preseason, especially that Colts game where he actually played against some starting players for the Colts. Like, see what it looks like.
01:17:22
Speaker
And at absolute worst, if Walker is, he's not playing anywhere else on the O-line. So if you sit him, if Morgan can't do it or gets hurt, then you can put Walker back in there and he's still playing for his next contract. Like,
01:17:37
Speaker
You know, whatever he got benched, his feelings are hurt, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of shit. He's still playing for his next contract. He's not going to go and just shit the bed because that means he ain't playing in the league next year.
01:17:49
Speaker
So, like, no matter what, he's got to play the best he can. Like, that's the that's like the golden ticket, so to speak, you have in your back pocket is like... Yeah, you might bench and whatever, but yeah.
01:18:02
Speaker
So like I said, I don't know which butt stints to press, but that's why there are certain people getting paid millions of dollars to do that. And it's time. Like it is time because you're halfway through the season and I don't know what the identity of this team is.
01:18:18
Speaker
other than being maddeningly inconsistent. I have no idea. And this is where we've we've kind of cautioned against this at different points of the season. This is where the 23 and 24 season have kind of both gone off the rails a little bit.
01:18:32
Speaker
You get into these situations where they have like a couple losses, a couple dumb games in a row kind of thing, and the tires just seem to fall off the vehicle. And LeFleur, love, the two of you got to figure it out And you got to pull us out of this potential nosedive because for as much as, oh, this league is so up and down this season, you're third in the division right now.
01:18:56
Speaker
And you you can say all you want about Chicago being lucky, this and that and whatever.
Performance Improvements and Superstitions
01:19:02
Speaker
They've been lucky more times than you have at this point this season. So you better fucking figure it out because you're going to be the one left in the dust if you keep getting stuck in the mud because everyone else doesn't seem to be having that issue around you.
01:19:16
Speaker
Okay, I'm going bring up two more things and then we're going to wrap up because we're going a little little bit long and I still got to get this thing out so people can listen to it. One is the reffing wasn't as bad tonight, but they still had their moments.
01:19:34
Speaker
And I know they did they did the one for one with with the false starts, but then it got a little bit sickening after that. And there were a couple of times that it's like, why didn't you throw the flag for DPI and shit like that?
01:19:47
Speaker
And number two, can we please stop with these weird ass winning streak type deals? Because every time you guys bring them up, the Packers shit the bread.
01:19:59
Speaker
So this one was... uh the packers are seven and oh on the anniversary of uh playing on the sinking of the edmund the anniversary of the sinking of the edmund fixgerald well last week it was or not last week it was the week before it was the pittsburgh thing well they almost blew that one until the second half happened what was the other one uh there was one other one that happened and it's just like stop enough and
01:20:29
Speaker
because all you're doing is trying to give us false hope and streaks are meant to be broken. There's a reason why DiMaggio's 56 straight hit games is still a record.
01:20:41
Speaker
there's There's a reason why Favre's career starts as consecutive starts as a record. Ripken Jr., same way.
01:20:55
Speaker
they' they end up ending the end so yeah yeah stop it stop it and on that note we're gonna stop this episode because I can't believe we found this much to talk about after like I said this game oh there's a shit more we could probably talk about but I'm getting tired I'm ready to friggin edit this thing and and put it out otherwise we'll be still talking until 6 o'clock in the morning when this thing should be popping out
01:21:29
Speaker
But, yep, the Packers are going to go to New York, this or I guess New Jersey technically next week to face the Giants.
Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
01:21:37
Speaker
And if they lose, I'm blaming Ramage because Ramage is going there to what is going to be in New York, New Jersey to watch the game.
01:21:45
Speaker
So if they lose this one, it's all Matt Ramage's fault. You heard it here first, folks. But please follow check out the website, ohanapackers.org. Please support us. Get some merch on the site.
01:21:56
Speaker
Please follow us on social medias at ohana underscore packers on Twitter. at Ohana Packers Edition on Instagram. Search Ohana Packers Edition on Facebook. Please follow the podcast on your favorite podcasting apps. Please give us a like and a subscribe.
01:22:11
Speaker
Joe's been doing a good job about putting out tweets before the episodes. Please send in your questions, comments, thoughts. we will We will respond to those in due accord as anyone does reach out. We have done in the past. We just haven't gotten many recently.
01:22:25
Speaker
But, yep, the Packers don't have time to lick their wounds. They've got to get back on the winning track. Still searching for their sixth win on the season as they go to the face the Giants.
01:22:36
Speaker
For Joe, I'm Mike. We'll catch you on our opponent preview. But until then, say go Pack Go and Aloha.