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Lost In The Exorcism - The True Story
26 Plays1 month ago
Happy Halloween! Today marks our first of many Halloween Specials, and this year we're not only talking about the Exorcist, we discuss the true events that inspired the movie.
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Special
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the first Lost in the Frame Halloween special. Today, we've got a spectacular head spinning, bed shaking, body levitating episode for you.
00:00:25
Speaker
I'm your host, Malik. I'm your host, Alex. ah i dont shit The one time I was like, you know what? I'm going to go second. everybody I'm your host, Tachi.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm your host, Alex. Oh, hey, boys. How's it going? You guys scared yet? I'm spooked. Sufficiently spooked. Yeah, it's been a tough month.
Tachi's Horror Movie Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
Tachi, how are you feeling now that we're at the finish line of these horror movies? Are you so excited to stop?
00:00:56
Speaker
Yes, but I will say, if there is a silver lining, I'm a lot more comfortable with horror movies now. um You think so? After this month? Yes. like I'm not trying to avoid them as as much as I was before. but we did it Joe.
00:01:13
Speaker
It's still not like like a genre I'm jumping out of my seat to go watch. so um It's okay. I think it's still a win.
00:01:25
Speaker
So... Yeah. Do you feel so like obviously in the near future when more horror movies are coming out in theaters, would you be willing to like because I know Alex and I will definitely want to go.
00:01:38
Speaker
Would you be willing to go with us like all watch it for the first
Would Tachi Join Future Horror Outings?
00:01:41
Speaker
time? Or do you want us to scope it out first and then maybe recommend it to you? Like, how do you feel about that? Like, it's OK if you like it.
00:01:50
Speaker
Go ahead. I, I guess to preface my answer, I'm like very anti-spoiler for myself and for other people.
00:02:00
Speaker
So first experiences are kind of meaningful to me when it comes to watching things or reading things, whatever. Um, So to answer your question, I would love to be there for the first time for all of us.
00:02:16
Speaker
Okay. Whether it's good or not, because just getting the raw like reaction and I don't know, that sounds a lot more fun to me than it's something special for
The Lore of The Exorcist
00:02:28
Speaker
sure. Yeah.
00:02:28
Speaker
Okay. I'm, I would have respected your choice either way, but I will say I'm happy with that decision. I wouldn't have.
00:02:36
Speaker
We're up Alex. How are you feeling at the end of this month now that we've, we've arrived? I wish I watched more, but I'm busy with a new job. so I wish I watched more too. October was such a busy month. It flew by.
00:02:49
Speaker
It flew by. like The month is over today when you're listening. so this is this Today is October 31st. We're recording on the 29th. I've seen eight movies this month.
00:03:01
Speaker
Who are you? I've seen more than that, but I've seen like nine horror. I think all eight were horror. See, I sprinkled in Smashing Machine and Roofman.
00:03:13
Speaker
Oh. And Tron Aries. Tell me real quick in like five seconds. How was Roofman? I liked it. Okay. Okay. That's good. For today's Halloween special, the first of many.
00:03:30
Speaker
We're not only going to talk about The Exorcist, we're going to talk about the true story behind The Exorcist. Now, personally, i didn't know that there was lore behind this movie.
00:03:47
Speaker
I didn't know that there was that this was rooted in any truth
00:03:53
Speaker
But Alex turned both Tachi and I on to
The Exorcist's Impact on Alex
00:03:57
Speaker
this. um Alex, I'll throw it to you if you kind of want to give a little backstory on ah how you intro'd us to this, the podcast that told you the story for the first time, and we can start talking about the movie and then get into the true story of The Exorcist.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so actually the first time that I heard that this was a true story was way before I had ever seen the movie.
00:04:25
Speaker
Um, when I was a little kid, when I was in like, it was definitely elementary school. Um, remember the, like the scholastic book fair and like the book drives and I miss it.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. And ah you'd get like the catalogs, you could order stuff. So it was maybe third or fourth grade. i don't remember which. i think it was third grade.
00:04:48
Speaker
That sounds about right. I ordered a book called The Scary States of America. And it was billed as a like collection of true stories, one from each of the 50 states.
00:05:02
Speaker
But if you read it, there's kind of like this weird narrative through like about half of the stories. There's like reoccurring characters and things like that. And it's like, ah, this is definitely fiction.
00:05:13
Speaker
But among the pages in the Maryland story, chapter was a um it was like four pages long and it was this blurb claiming that the exorcist was a true story and so long before i'd ever seen the movie i was aware that there was at least allegedly some veracity based behind it now In 2022, I drove out from Austin to Marshall, Texas, uh, to buy a trailer hitch for my Lexus and, uh, they were on back order.
00:05:56
Speaker
Lexus wasn't making any new ones. It's a long thing. Um, One of my favorite podcasts to listen to on road trips, because as you guys can probably assume by now, I'm a huge fan of all things creepy, paranormal, cryptids, all that. I love that.
00:06:14
Speaker
ah Is the Astonishing Legends podcast. And they are actually the first podcast I really listened to. Sorry, Malik and Tachi. um But I got introduced to them at some point in college and just kind of like would listen to the odd episode every now and then. But during COVID, I really started to listen because I didn't have anything else to do.
00:06:36
Speaker
But one of the episodes I had never listened to was their three part series. And it's like, there's like
00:06:45
Speaker
seven, eight hours of content on it. i mean, they really, really dive deep, uh, and they do it justice and they have a great research team and they're very engaging. I can't recommend, uh, the podcast, uh, any more highly than that. It's just fantastic.
00:07:01
Speaker
Um, I listened to, ah on this trip, I listened to the true story of the exorcist and, um, I was sufficiently terrified by it. Yep.
00:07:13
Speaker
Uh, I am Catholic. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school. Um, you know, probably not that great of a Catholic right now, but you know, what are you to Um, but so this was like ah like a setting that I was very familiar with. Like I'd heard a lot of these terms growing up and obviously at this point i had seen the movie.
00:07:37
Speaker
Um, but this story absolutely terrified me in a way that very few have and when we started doing the pod we were doing ah show notes for potential episodes and ideas for you know not just like movie related episodes about like movies with lore and things like that. And this was one of the ones that I threw in on there was the like a true story series for horror movies. And one of them was about the exorcist.
00:08:09
Speaker
um And I, you know, i what a what a what a way to cap off our first Spooktober with like a story that I feel very
Reactions to The Exorcist
00:08:20
Speaker
passionate about.
00:08:20
Speaker
And so I'm really excited for tonight's episode to talk about both the movie and the story behind it. Yeah, for sure. And so, um, Tachi, what is your relationship to the exorcist? Like, I think this was, this your first time watching the movie.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, it was my first time watching it entirely. I've seen snippets here and there, um, like the the infamous head turn, um, some of the spitting scenes, but, but you know, my first time sitting down and watching it and really trying to ingest the whole thing.
00:08:56
Speaker
um So it was interesting going back in time, kind of like with psycho. Yeah. Trying to experience the whole thing, as fresh as I can. it was, it was interesting. i'm I'm excited to get into it.
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's one thing that I'm grateful for this month that we were able to do was not, not leaning into the modernized horror. Like we went back in time a lot, which, which I think is awesome.
00:09:23
Speaker
Um, But yeah, with this movie, I feel... This one, I was also laid on. I don't remember the first time I watched it. It had to be post-2018. um But everybody... like Even if you hadn't seen it, everyone knows about The Exorcist.
00:09:38
Speaker
Similar to Psycho, which is just one of those movies that... built the foundation of horror as we know it today. So even if you haven't seen it, you've seen, you've seen the references, you've seen the spoofs, it's all like an even like scary movie and everything like that. So you're made aware of it. But I think watching it itself is is something totally different.
00:09:58
Speaker
And Alex, what was the first one was the first time that you saw the exorcist? I think I missed that when you said it. We hated it. I saw it in the sixth grade for the first time and we hated it. We made fun of it. We thought it was a letdown. We thought it was cheesy and we thought it was stupid.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I wish I didn't see it for the first time in the sixth grade. And i rewatched it ah in 2022. Maybe it was 2023. I rewatched it a couple of years ago for the first time since that infamous night. And my opinion flipped.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. Going through a lot of the letterbox reviews, that seems to be a lot of people's um relationship to the movie that the first time they watched it, whether they were like younger or maybe even a little older, i think it's just harder for people to.
00:10:43
Speaker
To care and to like feel a connection to these older movies, like especially like if you if you just like compare this to like any modern horror, like why, why would somebody be like, oh yeah, this movie from 50 years ago was totally scary. It's really not like, so it's very easy to see something like through that lens. But like you said, I think that there's like a shift that happens with not only just like appreciating it for what it did in its infancy, but it just gives you kind of a new lens to, to watch these older movies with. Cause I think the first time even I saw it and it was a little bit later, I think I said 2018 was like, oh okay.
00:11:23
Speaker
Sure. Like, I see the influence. All right. Rewatching it this time around, I was just like, oh my god.
00:11:34
Speaker
This is fantastic. It's terrifying. That's the thing. It's... There are no jump
Cultural Perceptions of The Exorcist
00:11:43
Speaker
scares in this movie.
00:11:44
Speaker
None. It is ah movie that I think and William Friedkin does such a good job of cultivating this atmosphere of just power that deserves our awe.
00:12:00
Speaker
And it is scary at parts. and But it'll walk you right into the scares and it doesn't try and surprise you. But the whole time you're sitting there dreading it.
00:12:12
Speaker
And, I mean, this isn't just a good horror film. This is a good movie. This is a very good movie. It's insanely well made. Yeah, and we're going to get into all of that.
00:12:23
Speaker
um To kick it off, we'll start with our high, medium, low for Letterboxd reviews. I've got the pleasure of doing the high today. So this five star comes from the user Adam or Adam spelled dumb.
00:12:36
Speaker
Good name. Um, the perfect five stars and a heart, the perfect horror film outside of the, it was boring crowd or people who refuse to overlook a film's age. There's truly something here for everyone.
00:12:49
Speaker
A tale of heart and triumph, thinly veiled as a religious film, incredibly written characters perform masterfully leading to a true masterpiece of a film.
00:12:58
Speaker
Thanks, Adam. Nice. I've got this week's medium. This is a three and a half star from Madison. This just doesn't work for me, but who even cares when you have a shot this gorgeous?
00:13:13
Speaker
I rewinded it like four times. That street lamp deserves a Nobel prize. Wow. What an insane shot. Truly iconic. Oh my God. it actually There's a couple in this movie that are just ridiculous. yeah's Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:31
Speaker
you got our low, Alex. I do have our low. From... don't even know how they did this. Italicized. i'll I'll screenshot it and send you guys a ah screenshot of it. It's Riri with like a bow, but like written out with like letters somehow. like Symbols and then like a three or four stars.
00:13:51
Speaker
um't know how they did it. it's um i'm I'm kind of impressed. What is it supposed to be? Like, RiRi and then, like, a bow. Like ah like ah you know, bow.
00:14:03
Speaker
And then there's, like, stars. So it's, like, all, like, fancy and italicized. And, like, ooh, whimsy. Okay. Cool. Now, this whimsy ah reviewer comes in with our half star.
00:14:18
Speaker
This is the scariest movie in the world. It... It quite literally didn't have one jump scare. Wow. I understand times were different in the 70s, especially with religion, but I cannot and understand why people in the 70s were saying they were traumatized and that they fainted.
00:14:38
Speaker
Traumatized and fainted are in quotations. Not even a horror movie, in my opinion. And plus, I think half the movie was them just talking so boring.
00:14:51
Speaker
This person has to be 12, 13. You're 12. They're 17. Okay. Irish. putting it out there. okay and irish putting it out we' We'll give them a pass. I think they'll come back to this movie in seven, 15 years. yeah Final Destination 3 is in their top four.
00:15:15
Speaker
i gotta respect that i'm sorry i'm basically 15 years older than this person yeah off go back in fifteen years i'll be 32 in a few months that bad review takes us to a nice spot talking about the public's reaction to the movie and this reviewer put in quotations so i'm gonna leave it in quotations for right now and i'll get your guys a temperature check on like how you actually feel the public perceived this movie but People were fainting, apparently.
00:15:48
Speaker
People were vomiting and screaming. How true do you think these statements are? i It's so widely reported. like I don't know like the veracity of them. And there are some even way extreme reports. So we were doing this, this is actually the episode with the most show notes we've ever done.
00:16:07
Speaker
It's insane. wrote all it. um And one of, I found this old New York times article from 74 and it was talking about like people waiting hours to go see this movie. I didn't even realize the date of it.
00:16:22
Speaker
Um, yeah, they were waiting hours to be shocked by this movie. And it was like, why? And you're talking about like some of the reactions and all that. And like a guard or doorman or something at the movie, right?
00:16:37
Speaker
told the reporter that someone had a heart attack and had to be stretchered away during the movie, and someone miscarried a pregnancy during a screening.
00:16:50
Speaker
Wow. There's no way. Now, I think fainting and screaming are pretty realistic. think that's valid.
00:17:03
Speaker
Vomiting, sure. Heart attack...
00:17:10
Speaker
They have to be very fragile for that. Yeah. I don't know if those last two were just the guard pulling some guy's leg. i I guess it's within the realm of possibility, but this movie did have people freaking out. I mean, um we'll get to the book later, ah the book we used for a lot of this, but it did talk about like Catholic priests seeing an inundation of calls to them about people, especially young people, who thought they were possessed and needed to be exorcised.
00:17:46
Speaker
After watching this movie? Yeah, and they were just like... that's not how it works like like yo it came through the screen and it got me i got ghost watched help me follow yeah but like you would like it's unbelievable talking about it in the year 2025 but let's rewind to 1973 hell even in 1995 with watch they got got 1973 he even in ninety ninety five with ghost watch they got gone nineteen seventy three I'm forgetting the name of the code that was like lifted, but like horror movies. Haze code.
00:18:19
Speaker
yeah the Haze code. Horror movies are getting a bit more ballsy. This is the first time we're seeing things like this put to film. I can't even wrap my mind around like what that's like. there's I don't want to limit my imagination, but as of today, I don't think there's anything we could watch...
The Exorcist and Blaxploitation
00:18:40
Speaker
to get that type of reaction. Like, i I just think that that's gone, and it was a first and only. I almost had a panic attack during Herenitary.
00:18:53
Speaker
Hereditary was freaky. I almost had to leave that theater. that's That's about the closest I ever got, and I still toughed it out. and But even movie even then, it's different, because like we've seen similar things. Hereditary is a very great movie, but like the first, like no prior knowledge of, oh, they can do this in movies? like They didn't know anything. They're really...
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah, some of the technical feats in this movie are really impressive. Very impressive. Maybe fainting was just like just part of the times back then. Because when you see those clips of Michael Jackson performing the 70s and 80s, and there are just women fainting in the crowd...
00:19:38
Speaker
because they're so excited to see him. like Yeah. I mean, yeah, even like Elvis. like Maybe it's just what they did back then. like A lot of the world hated Elvis. like Yeah, he literally had just women dying at his concerts.
00:19:53
Speaker
Honestly, it really makes me sad that we don't live in a time where we get so excited about something we faint. Like we're so inundated with just content to appease us that it's just like I'm fiending for another hit, but it doesn't actually like make me happy.
00:20:09
Speaker
And these stars aren't mysterious anymore because they have social media. We can follow them. We can see what they do on a daily basis. Yeah, there's no mystery anymore. Yeah, there's no mystique or anything. I mean, you hit the head nail on the head with like Elvis and MJ. Can you imagine just being like hearing it, hearing stories about MJ or Elvis, and you go see him and it's just like,
00:20:30
Speaker
and it makes It makes so much sense because you got to think if you have like limited access to TV, you just know the music. And when you're at the mall, you see the magazines, you see the posters, you've got them up on your walls.
00:20:42
Speaker
And then you see him for the very first time, like in person, like you know what he looks like from the magazines, you know what he looks like from the posters. But to like experience that, like I can totally see getting so excited that you're just
00:21:00
Speaker
on the floor. Yeah.
00:21:04
Speaker
think that's why talk shows are such a big thing too. Yeah. You see actors and musicians talk for the first time. Sorry. Anyways, one of the points that you made here, Alex, that I was curious to learn about was that this movie partially credited to having ended mainstream blaxploitation.
00:21:19
Speaker
Would you mind explaining? No. Then go ahead.
00:21:27
Speaker
No, no. Okay. Um, Yes, this one I thought was really interesting. um So this movie, along with, um there were a few others. It wasn't just The Exorcist that they originally did not put in like majority black areas.
00:21:48
Speaker
um Back in the day, theaters were a lot more like particular about like what screened where. I mean, it wasn't just like everybody had access to everything digital. so so You need to be really particular about where you thought a movie was going to do well.
00:22:01
Speaker
and like what theaters would be good with it and all that. um And this was right about the time that um
00:22:13
Speaker
you know, blaxploitation was, I guess, at its peak. um And you know those movies were being kind of only put in black neighborhoods because they thought that was the only thing that like people really enjoyed.
00:22:25
Speaker
So the exorcist and the godfather were both not originally screened in majority black neighborhoods and cities and towns. um But they found out that when they were doing like box office demographics, that like a substantial piece of these movie screenings were given by black people.
00:22:56
Speaker
And so they like, oh
00:22:59
Speaker
maybe we can get away with like these movies and make profit in these areas. And from then on, like the sort of racial demographicking of movies and their distribution kind of started to fade away.
Alleged Curses of The Exorcist
00:23:15
Speaker
Because as it turns out, if something is good, people will like it. Who would have thought? I never would have guessed. Yeah, that 1974 New York Times article references um a little bit of that, saying that anywhere from a fourth to a third of the crowd was black.
00:23:31
Speaker
um And there was one black Manhattan secretary explained that, in quotes, a lot of blacks relate to voodoo and witchcraft and that kind of devil stuff. Many still believe in black magic, especially those from Haiti and the deep south.
00:23:45
Speaker
So I think that's really interesting. Mm-hmm.
00:23:49
Speaker
It's kind of crazy that this movie had such an impact that like it even went beyond this genre. It's insane, the pull that was had here. um And along with this movie, for the cast and crew making it, there was apparently some not-so-great happenings on set.
00:24:09
Speaker
Oh, there were... Like an an inordinate amount. it's a It's very questionable. There's... I'm just going to this. There's a lot of... questions I have after watching this movie and listening to this podcast.
00:24:26
Speaker
I'm just inundated with questions, which we'll get into. Did you guys get a chance to look over some of the top crazy things that happened on the set of The Exorcist?
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah. I'll go over a few of them. And there's a personal favorite of mine. Okay. I'll start with this one. They call this one the unexplainable fire. Basically, on set, the set that was used to create the McNeil house, it caught fire.
00:24:54
Speaker
It's unexplainable because it was not a fire that you could put out easily. It was a really big fire, and it burned everything except Reagan's room, which is where the meat of this movie takes place with the exorcism.
00:25:09
Speaker
So everything basically got burnt except for her room. How that make you guys feel? Not good. A little spooked. Here's another one.
00:25:20
Speaker
People linked to the movie ended up dying. It was two of the actors in this film, Jack McGoran and Vasiliki Maleros. Sorry if I mispronounced that. They were both written to have an on-film death, and they ended up dying in real life as well.
00:25:35
Speaker
Now, Malarose passed away due to natural causes, and um I'm not seeing where how the other one died, but it was just a few months after the making of this movie to have a couple of your main cast pass away.
00:25:50
Speaker
it It extended beyond that. um Max von Sydow, who played Father Marin, when he came to New York to film like the movie, the first couple scenes for the movie, his brother died unexpectedly in Sweden, he had to go back. my god, what?
00:26:08
Speaker
And then he later became like really sick during filming, apparently. And then um Jason Miller, who plays Father Karras, had his son... hit by a motorcyclist on the beach.
00:26:22
Speaker
Whoa. The boy lived, but still. um The boy who lived. I mean, I'm just, I have the book open right here. There is a carpenter cut off their thumb.
00:26:37
Speaker
A lighting technician lost a toe. Yeah.
00:26:43
Speaker
yeah aism there This one is like, I mean, i would have who would have thought? It got hot in Iraq.
00:26:52
Speaker
um Another one that I thought was interesting was one of the extras on the movie was found guilty of murder. This is my favorite one. All right. just This is my favorite one. Just a few years after the movie's debut, Paul Bateson, who plays a doctor's assistant in The Exorcist, was found guilty of killing a movie critic, Addison Verrill.
00:27:12
Speaker
My God. And.
00:27:17
Speaker
To make matters worse, he was subsequently suspected of six additional killings, but never found guilty of them. The real truth is still unknown. Was there.
00:27:31
Speaker
ah motive discovered so or for the for the for the you critic. Yeah, the critic.
00:27:45
Speaker
Alex, motive? I don't know. i don't know. I'm going guess so if they they found him guilty. Yeah, so that's that's not great.
00:27:56
Speaker
But the the bit that makes this my favorite part of the Exorcist curse is that William Friedkin ended up making a movie based on those unsolved murders called ah Cruising with Al Pacino.
00:28:08
Speaker
Oh, really? Yep. And, I mean, he knew it wasn't like a like you know secret that he didn't know Bateson did it. i mean, I actually think he went to visit Bateson in prison at one point.
00:28:19
Speaker
um But... ah It was just like a weird little like wrinkle that turned to another movie by a great director. It wasn't my favorite Friedkin, but it's it's worth a watch. Pretty solid.
00:28:34
Speaker
Cool. Here's another. lot of controversy around the movie, obviously, but and it's screening in Rome. It was met with severe, heavy downpour and lightning from a storm that was unexpected. a lightning strike even caused one of the ancient crosses, which was over 400 years old, to fall in the center of the theater.
00:28:54
Speaker
I'd walk out.
00:28:57
Speaker
Can't worth it. Yeah, we're going to go see this movie. We're not really sure like what the vibe is going to be like like. We're a little scared, and it's kind of just messed up that they're making these movies about demons. But let's go check it out.
00:29:08
Speaker
I'm sure nothing bad will happen. Imagine doing acid and then you go to watch the exorcist and not only are you on acid while watching the exorcist, a cross falls off something and lands in front of you.
00:29:21
Speaker
I'd be with that like permanently ruin someone's brain. Would you just be done? Like cooked? Yeah.
00:29:30
Speaker
You would, you would be no more. That would ruin you as a person.
00:29:35
Speaker
A lot of the cast and crew for this movie also wanted a real exorcism to be performed on set because they were tired of seeing all the bad shit happening, such as ah someone losing their thumb, losing a toe, the fire, the injuries.
Personal Reflections on The Exorcist
00:29:49
Speaker
So a lot of the crew was like, we need to get someone over here and perform a real exorcism. They ended up not performing a real exorcism, but they did have a priest go to bless the set. So hopefully that put them at ease.
00:30:02
Speaker
I want to say even Ellen Burst and Linda Blair got hurt, too. They did. mean, come on. It wouldn't surprise me. Everybody just getting hurt.
00:30:13
Speaker
there's just there's There's so much around this movie, but I mean, that's what the world thinks about it. What do we think about it? What did you guys love about this movie? I liked how bold it liked how bored it was It garnered such insane reactions, like we kind of already touched on with people fainting, vomiting, having really crazy reactions to some of the content on screen.
00:30:38
Speaker
um Obviously, it's not really that shocking for us at this point in time. But back then, you know, you've you've talked so many times about the Hays Code.
00:30:53
Speaker
I just don't, I don't see how the majority of the viewers had ever seen anything like this stuff. And like, not even just that it's not even like shock for the sake of shock, like watching it 50 somewhat odd years later, I'm like,
00:31:07
Speaker
The way this movie is structured, the way it's paced, and going back to that one star letterbox review saying that the movie is just talking, like I don't think any movies like now, a horror movie, would dare to incorporate such heavy dialogue and intention behind its movie. like Breaking news, modern movies do not include plot.
Narrative Structure of The Exorcist
00:31:32
Speaker
Like, there's a lot of great modern horror movies, so I'm not knocking those. I'm knocking our, like, recent Conjury movies and everything, where just... It's a jump-scare fest. That's how you get people in the theaters. Like, how do we make your heart rate jump? How do we... What's the loudest noise we can make?
00:31:47
Speaker
My roommate said it best last night. ah The Exorcist is not horror slop. It is not horror slop. This is... Agreed. A great movie that is ah horror film. Like, that is...
00:32:01
Speaker
Rewatching this, that's my favorite aspect of this movie was how intentional it is. And I appreciated the slower, quote unquote, slower moments of seeing this mom freaking out, going for help to these priests and not knowing what to do in the conversation she's having.
00:32:20
Speaker
with the priests, with the doctors, with anyone in the house and just trying to piece all of this together. Like it really feels like we are also entangled in this situation because it almost feels like this all comes out of nowhere.
00:32:36
Speaker
And we're we're there with... with the mom and just trying to figure out like what's going on with her daughter. Like, what can we do? And that feeling of confusion and just being lost is despair.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's articulated so well across this medium, which encapsulates the entire movie, which is why I really, really enjoyed this for sure.
00:33:07
Speaker
For me, I think what I love the most was how many blink-and-you'll-miss-it details there are. um From like the drawings that Reagan is drawing at the beginning of the movie, and then... um you know, when her mom looks at him, um to, like, just the little thing, like, the cross appearing in her room, and no one, like, knows why it got there, but it completely being overshadowed by Burke dying.
00:33:39
Speaker
And, like, I mean, it took me three viewings to realize Burke put the cross in the room. You know? That he put it in there, and that's why...
00:33:51
Speaker
spoiler for a movie that's like 50 years old. reagan That's why Reagan kills Bert. Yeah, because he put the cross on there because he put the cross in there. Oh,
Performances and Recognition of The Exorcist
00:34:01
Speaker
see? that i't I didn't even catch that.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah. um And the other thing I loved was I just thought the demon voice was so just like the noises it was making was so eerie. You get under your skin.
00:34:20
Speaker
The first. Yeah. The first time you hear it speak, you know, she jumps up to bed and she's like, stay back. The sow is mine. And it's like, oh, my goodness. Like, what am I watching? hmm.
00:34:36
Speaker
Could you imagine watching that in the 70s and that little girl jumps up and says that? I would just... In that voice? There's a scene...
00:34:48
Speaker
A little bit after that where the demon's talking through her and I guess acting through her and i guess a light way to say it is that she's gyrating on the bed shouting not great things.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it's just like seeing that come out of this child is so horrifying. I can't imagine. What a fantastic performance as well.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, is it the... the best child performance ever? Hmm.
00:35:26
Speaker
I don't know. There's smarter people than me. I've had that conversation, but I would say it's up there for me because ah things she had to do, way her body needed to move.
00:35:39
Speaker
Incredible. You know, Linda Blair was nominated for best supporting actress in the Oscars for this movie. Good. yeah she actually She actually won the Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress for a Motion Picture for this movie.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about its history with awards. She's also won Worst Actress a couple times. I'm actually looking at... Worst actress.
00:36:08
Speaker
ah Yeah, looking at her awards and nominations. yeah The ra Golden Raspberry Awards. That's what it was. um So Psycho wasn't nominated for Best Picture. Is that correct? Or was Psycho just nominated for something else? I remember there was something that we had said on the Psycho episode for regarding nominations that with the Academy Awards. Do y'all remember?
00:36:27
Speaker
Mm-mm.
00:36:30
Speaker
All right. No, I don't remember either. Yeah, maybe i have it mixed up with something, but... um According to Screen Rant, The Exorcist was the first horror movie to be nominated for Best Picture.
00:36:43
Speaker
I believe Psycho might have been like the first horror movie to be nominated just for an award, but The Exorcist was the first to be nominated for Best Picture. It was nominated for a lot.
00:36:53
Speaker
It was nominated for a lot that year. I think they walked away with Best Writing for Adapted Screenplay and Best Sound, if I'm not mistaken. You're not mistaken. But they were nominated for for quite a number of awards. And still to this day, in the Lord's ear of 2025, only seven movies in the horror category have been nominated for Best Picture.
Debating The Exorcist's Cultural Impact
00:37:17
Speaker
Only one has won. I mean, I'll read you guys the list of what it was nominated for. Best Picture, Director, Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress. Best Screenplay based on material from another medium. So Best Adapted Screenplay.
00:37:32
Speaker
Best Art Direction, Best Cinematography, Best Film Editing, and Best Sound. I mean...
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah. seven eight nine ten i mean impressive very it's rare i think for a movie to get 10 especially these days yeah last one to do it was uh god damn it what's the name of that movie amelia perez we love that movie anyway the other movies that were horror movies that have been nominated for best picture so the exorcist was the first shortly after that breaking stigmas here jaws in 1975
00:38:07
Speaker
followed by the silence of the lambs. so lambs So good. Who went on to win best picture and is the only best picture winner in the horror genre. um The sixth sense shout out Shyamalan.
00:38:20
Speaker
He was also nominated. Black Swan was nominated. Get out in 2017. And then most recently, the substance.
00:38:31
Speaker
Cool. Insane. So shout out to the exorcist for, uh, for standing our ground. Um, what didn't you guys like from this movie? Is there anything that doesn't work for you?
00:38:42
Speaker
Any minor critiques or just any thoughts there? I can go first. Um, It's not that it didn't work.
00:38:53
Speaker
I just wanted to care more about them saving Reagan. Like, I didn't care about Reagan. Obviously, I wanted this little girl to be saved. um And there's the whole mother-daughter aspect, too.
00:39:08
Speaker
But outside of that, we just didn't really get much Reagan. Like, I didn't really care about her. Do you know what i mean? know what I feel that. Yeah, I think I'll...
00:39:20
Speaker
I'll echo your statement and I feel the main thing that doesn't work for me is once we get towards the ending of this, it feels very quick. Like we went through so much and i would like to, I would have liked to see like a bit more. And I, I think I have that critique.
00:39:37
Speaker
after listening to the podcast listening to the real story of the exorcist and hearing how that all kind of ended up which which we'll get into and kind of comparing the real life events that happened to the ending of the movie the movie just felt very quick the movie is two hours long make it two and a half I could have done with an extra like 20 minutes of just kind of the aftermath and getting everything together. was kind of just wrapped up in a pretty quick bow.
00:40:05
Speaker
I think it was my main critique, I would say. How about you, Alex? I think those are certainly fair. um I agree with you, though. ah to me, this third watch made me start thinking the movie was about not so much an exorcism, but a crisis of faith in someone.
00:40:25
Speaker
And I guess from that lens, if you view Father Karras as the main character, which is arguable, then I think it starts to disappear a little bit.
00:40:40
Speaker
um But those are, I think, are very valid. For me... and even seeing it a third time, there's a couple moments where there's time skips and I don't really pick up on it until like halfway through the scene. Like, Oh, like, okay. Like, yeah, I guess, sure. I guess we're a couple months down the line or something, you know?
00:40:57
Speaker
What are a couple? If you, if you have them off the top of your head. So there is the, the, the most glaring one where, father Marin's mother is in the insane asylum.
00:41:08
Speaker
And then the next scene, um, yeah we learned that his mother died last night, but we just saw her. Yeah, that was confusing for sure. Was that a couple months, supposed to be a couple months later?
00:41:21
Speaker
I'm going to take a guess and say yes, but there was like it's a time skip, you know, of some kind because she was back in New York. yeah He had said, I should have been there, you know.
00:41:32
Speaker
um There was that, and then there's there's another where where it jumps like just a little bit and it was like, Oh, like, okay.
Ratings and Perspectives on The Exorcist
00:41:42
Speaker
was just Like it just strangely unclear.
00:41:44
Speaker
It was, it was like, I think pretty early on in the movie, like within the first like 30 minutes. But that was like the biggest thing for me. Um, one thing I will say that actually grew on me was the scene in Iraq in the beginning.
00:42:00
Speaker
I was going to say same. The first time I watched I didn't remember it. The second time I watched it, I was like, ah, we didn't need that. And the third time I watched it, I was like, you know what? I like it.
00:42:11
Speaker
What do you appreciate from that opening? I think it just sets the vibe so well. Yeah. Like, I mean, the it opens with the call to prayer, the sunrise, the exorcist, you know, the title card, and it's just almost no talking.
00:42:28
Speaker
Just vibes. I really like the shot actually of the the totem and the guy kind of facing off. Oh, yeah. For a couple of seconds. That was really good. yeah Just a nice little foreshadow, which is really cool. And yeah, I just I think that ties into.
00:42:46
Speaker
just the world building that I think this accomplishes. And then the amount of time that we even spend with like Father Karras and just seeing him kind of live day to day, like even outside of priesthood.
00:42:58
Speaker
I think the first time someone watches this, especially if they're a little bit younger, they're just like, okay, what's the point of all of this? But it just adds such depth to the story and to the characters that I really enjoy.
00:43:12
Speaker
liked it when the cop was like, you you look like a boxer. Yeah. I feel like, so after listening to the podcast, I feel like that was kind of a nod because they talk a lot in the episode. And I'm not sure if they explain this more like in the book of, ah um and i'm not I'm not going to remember all of these priest names, whether in the movie or in real life. But the one in real life was supposed to be like a pretty big guy, like strong and kind of just showing how crazy it was that this young person could inflict this kind of damage especially on this like bulky priest so i feel like that was kind of a nod to that like oh you look like a boxer and it kind of had the build of one and everything they they both were um both priests were modeled after the real priest involved um the charis think is a little bit of a hybrid between two of them because and we'll we'll we'll get in we'll get into this in a bit because one of them at the time wasn't actually a priest
00:44:11
Speaker
He was a seminary student. Yeah. um So he wasn't, he was only participating in like being the errand boy. um But I think he is who ah Father Karras is physically like modeled after.
00:44:24
Speaker
um But Father Merrin is like the main priest. Like it's, it's pretty just one-to-one. Got it. I want to talk about the iconic shot.
00:44:36
Speaker
I just want to gush about it for a second. It's so good. how they, they, they popped off the arrival of father Marin is burned into my mind forever.
00:44:49
Speaker
And it, I think what people lose with that one is not only is just that frame incredible, but when he walks in and, uh, father Karras is like, like, do you want to hear the backstory? And he's like, why?
00:45:04
Speaker
And he's like, get the stole. Like, we're going to do this. He's all business. He's locked in. Yeah. why would we waste time that's sick just incredible aura farming he's literally he's the tony stark of exorcists they're like no no not the the other uh priest or whatever talking about him in the church like oh no i thought he was done like the last one almost killed him like i don't know he's he's around I got one more in me.
00:45:33
Speaker
I got one more. biggest one of them all. um What else do you guys want to shout out from this movie? Whether you loved it or hated it or didn't like it. There was one line.
00:45:46
Speaker
it was a throwaway line kind of during the party. um i don't know who this guy is what his deal was, but he said... I wrote it down actually. Hold on.
00:45:57
Speaker
me pull it up. He said... There seems to be alien pubic hair in my gin. And the guy next to him is like, beg your pardon? Oh, that was Burke.
00:46:10
Speaker
OK. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who the. The drug I was here. Yeah. I think I missed that. He was a weirdo. It was it was right before. Actually, right before a scene I really like is when Reagan comes downstairs and says to you, you're going to die up there.
00:46:25
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, bro, i would have been. like That was what is she doing? What is she doing here? Why did you say that to me? That was sick. That was sick.
00:46:37
Speaker
That's the I think I think the script has so much like levity, especially in the first like 30 to 45 minutes because you get a lot of those like throwaway lines and people just had a party just having a good time inside conversations that like in the grand scheme of things to the quote unquote plot of the story don't matter. But it's just building the world and
00:46:59
Speaker
Man, we're losing recipes.
00:47:04
Speaker
We are losing recipes. What are we doing?
00:47:09
Speaker
Someone come save us.
00:47:12
Speaker
Do we rate this one? Oh, yeah. What do we rate it? I give it a 4.5. I'll give it 4. I'm
00:47:26
Speaker
going to give it 10.
00:47:29
Speaker
Oh, wow. Is that the first five out of five on the pod? Yeah. Oh, I wish we had like a special button.
00:47:37
Speaker
All right. I'll find that
Transition to the True Story
00:47:40
Speaker
noise. it was
Introduction to the Real Exorcism Case
00:47:42
Speaker
Watching it the third time.
00:47:45
Speaker
There were just so many ah moments that it was like, I think it was during the, our formula one episode where I said, it was like, you know, For me to give something like a 10 out of 10, I can love a movie to death, but if it doesn't have one of those scenes that just makes me feel like a kid inside, then it's not a 10.
00:48:06
Speaker
And this third rewatch, there were like four or five. Okay, yeah, what are a couple of the scenes that push it over when they go into the ah When they go into the ah Reagan's room to start performing the exorcism, and they start reading the Roman Rite.
00:48:24
Speaker
They start with Our Father, and she spits on Father Marin, and he wipes it off. and then continues reading and then finishes the, our father and goes into the Roman, right. Um, just like stay, I had to stand up.
00:48:39
Speaker
I was watching peak. Um, there's, uh,
00:48:47
Speaker
There's a couple other moments. I think when um Father Karis first visits Regan after meeting with his mom like covertly, or meeting with her mom covertly, ah that one is so well done.
00:49:02
Speaker
And um just like the the demon voice, it's just so much of it as incredible.
00:49:13
Speaker
Like, so good. So, so good. I don't have the name of the actress who did the voice, but I know with her voice, along with the sound of pig squeals, helped give us the exorcist voice. And this actress was actually not credited on the movie at first.
00:49:31
Speaker
And i think took them to court and she was credited pretty soon after. ah saw a video. I think she, she said something along the lines of that. She credits that voice to,
00:49:43
Speaker
cigarettes whiskey and eggs or or something like that like that eggs or age eggs like egg yolks egg like from a chicken like i guess that's her diet is just cigarettes whiskey and yolk so tired rocky yeah basically crazy
00:50:02
Speaker
um let's talk about um most messed up story i've ever heard yeah it was it's creepy but okay putting it lightly yeah real quick how'd you feel after listening to itachi because it was both of our first times listening to these uh podcast episodes yeah i felt don't if i want to get into it yet but i'll just say okay
00:50:34
Speaker
Not great. It's really disturbing. so um yeah, I don't know. How but how did you feel? so So I listened to part of this on the plane.
00:50:46
Speaker
which was like a weird, just a weird space to be in. i read to listen I read the book on the plane. Okay. On the way to the wedding. So listen to like half of it on the plane. And that was just like a weird space to be in. And then I finished it.
00:50:59
Speaker
um So I'm in California right now. And the neighborhood I'm in is just like a beautiful neighborhood. It's very walkable. They've got like a nice little downtown. lot of craftsmen houses, so like nothing made past the year like 1960 exists over here.
00:51:16
Speaker
And all of the streets are or all of the houses like a majority of them, I would say like 80 percent are fully decked out in Halloween decor. And some of these people go like like pretty hard with it. Like we've got some like pretty cool decorations over here.
00:51:31
Speaker
Now, LA is not known for like its change of seasons. So when I went on this walk, it was kind of a warm day, clear skies. i went and I went on a walk in the evening, walked for like an hour and a half to finish the podcast episode. But I'm walking around and just the...
00:51:49
Speaker
overall vibe just felt very fall. It felt very like in tune to like what I was listening. Like I was freaked out while I was walking listening to this and then just being like kind of encapsulated in like this this area.
00:52:04
Speaker
It was really cool because like where I live there's not a lot of like
Historical Context of the Exorcism
00:52:08
Speaker
decorations or anything. So was just something different and I feel like it added to the atmosphere and I even passed the cemetery at some point and i it It had me proper freaked, I would say.
00:52:24
Speaker
I'm freaked up. Proper freaked up.
00:52:30
Speaker
Alex, you want to lead us into the starting the true story of The Exorcist? How do you want to begin this? I'm almost too scared to.
00:52:40
Speaker
so I'm almost too scared to, but I'm going to do it anyway for you guys. Cause I love and care about you. Um, so like we said at the top of the story, uh, we got a lot of what you're about to hear, at least our research from the astonishing legends podcast and the research they had done.
00:52:58
Speaker
Um, but i also read, I, and I was the only one who read it. Um, was The Devil Came to St. Louis by Troy Taylor, which is the uncensored true story of the 1949 exorcism.
00:53:11
Speaker
um This is probably the most complete work about this story. um there's he He has researched this story for like 20 years before writing the book. um he interviewed witnesses. and he even interviewed the subject himself.
00:53:31
Speaker
So... You're probably not going to get a better um better collection of it than and than this one. ah But we we'll try and do our best to do it justice.
00:53:44
Speaker
um You're probably wondering how this story was made into a movie. Because this movie was...
00:53:58
Speaker
never, well, the story was never supposed to get out. I'll put it that way. um We know that the book, because he he won an Oscar for it, the book The Exorcist by William Peter Blatty inspired the movie.
00:54:14
Speaker
um He wrote the book, or started to write the book, after he started to hear rumors of this story while he was at Georgetown, ah Georgetown University, which they filmed a lot of the the movie at.
00:54:31
Speaker
But... um How he found out about it was an article ran in a few different Washington, D.C. and Maryland newspapers. um detailing an alleged demonic possession and exorcism that had occurred in the area.
00:54:47
Speaker
If you're unfamiliar with what exorcism is and you've gotten this far into the podcast without figuring it out, wow. um But it's basically, it is a right within the Catholic church that a priest performs to expel a demon or devil from a person's body.
00:55:08
Speaker
and ridding them of that spirit. um
00:55:14
Speaker
Early reports of this had mentioned that an unnamed minister, like the first thing we had, like the first article that was published was that this unnamed minister had seen paranormal events surrounding a young boy and had made a report to a parapsychology foundation that was a part of Duke University.
00:55:33
Speaker
um The Washington Post ended up having the most complete version of the story that was originally put out. um It detailed that a young teenager in Mount Rainer, Maryland, had been exercised by a Catholic priest in both Maryland and St. Louis, ending in St. Louis, Missouri.
00:55:51
Speaker
ah It detailed the rite, including some of the ah odd things that had been happening and witnessed by other people. But... but a lot of it was not correct.
00:56:05
Speaker
Like the series of events and what it described, a lot of it was not right. And, um, we only have limited time, so I won't go into everything and I'll, you know, if you enjoy the story and think it's worth listening to, I really highly recommend that you go do it.
00:56:22
Speaker
Uh, cause like I said, we cannot possibly do it justice, but we're going to try. um, a lot of what was in that original article or in that Washington post article was, like I said, incorrect. It got some details wrong.
00:56:38
Speaker
There was a lot in this case that was like sensationalized over the years. And there was all sorts of crazy, ah you know, stories and legends and lore surrounding it.
00:56:51
Speaker
But, um, the, uh, the Catholic review, and which is a nationally syndicated Catholic newspaper, um did write on this case as well.
00:57:07
Speaker
um And I can read you what they said. It was a three-paragraph story under a Washington dateline. It read, a fourteen year old boy whose history of diabolical possession was widely reported in the press last week, was successfully exercised by a priest after being received into the Catholic Church.
00:57:24
Speaker
It was learned here. The priest refused to discuss the case in any way. However, it was known that several attempts had been made to free the boy of the manifestations. A Catholic priest was called upon for help. When the boy expressed the desire to enter the church with the consent of his parents, he received religious instruction.
00:57:39
Speaker
Later, the priest baptized him and then successfully performed the ritual of exorcism. The parents of the afflicted boy are non-Catholics. that was it. That was the only real admittance that from any sort of like official Catholic wing that it had happened at all.
00:58:00
Speaker
That's insane. So, like I mean, I guess that really begs the question, like how do we know so much about what happened? And where did it even come from?
00:58:10
Speaker
Like, where did the story even come from if no one was like publicly speaking about it? Because that was one of the questions that I had going into the story. And was that something you guys were wondering
Real Events vs. Film Portrayal
00:58:22
Speaker
as well? like Yeah.
00:58:24
Speaker
So this is one of like the funnier parts of this whole saga. at least I found it funny in like a really weird way. um The leaks to the newspaper came from minute, the unnamed minister.
00:58:40
Speaker
ah The one that was mentioned in the first report that had talked to the Duke parapsychology people. His name was Reverend Luther Schultz. And he was the minister, the Lutheran minister of the family of the possessed boy.
00:58:55
Speaker
And he, he let it leak because when he learned they confirmed, ah converted to Catholicism he decided that his um his vow to privacy ended right there and it was free game he's like it's time to spill the tea the The family um has never publicly spoken on this.
00:59:19
Speaker
Oh, interesting. They never... like So when this book was made, um they were never conferred with. ah some of the One of the priests was, William Peter Blatty, did get in cocktail contact with one of the priests. he didn't confirm specifics, but talked about the case in very general terms.
00:59:41
Speaker
Um... And he he never, ever made contact with the family. But he did do his best to change the story enough to conceal what little he knew about him.
00:59:56
Speaker
Which I think is fairly admirable. um So this family never received royalties for this story. you know They weren't ever paid like rights for the movie to The Exorcist. And think actually the the boy himself never saw or read the book.
01:00:14
Speaker
He never had an interest in either, which is fair. Yeah, like I wouldn't either. like I feel like that that feels worse than blood money. Like, accepting something like that. You gotta to get on your grind set. You gotta get on your Sigma grind set and make that coin, that side hustle.
01:00:31
Speaker
This is financial advice. If you get possessed, milk it, for all it's worth. We're gonna be rich.
01:00:40
Speaker
So, the article's And again, credit to the newspaper for not trying to blow this thing wide open and make a whole spectacle. Maybe that's just the difference between, you know, the news then and the 24-hour TMZ-style news cycle now.
01:00:56
Speaker
They only referred to the boy in pseudonyms and aliases. um They refer to the family as the Doe family.
01:01:07
Speaker
And over the years, he has been referred to as R. Robert Manheim, which is not super close to his name uh or as it's most widely known uh roland doe and this is the story of the exorcism of roland doe which i think is really creepy name like it just i don't know why it just it sounds creepy it is creepy like i'm still trying to wrap my head around the story and i think i appreciated the podcast for kind of trying to um
01:01:44
Speaker
give a few different like lenses of the audience. That's like listening to like, whether you like are devoted Catholic or not. Yeah. Believe in it or not. Or like there's just, it and it was just them giving like their honest opinions and like even playing devil's advocate with each other on like,
01:02:02
Speaker
like I'm jumping forward, but like the 48 witnesses to help kind of like frame the story, like what would be, what would be the point of lying? And like the more people you have involved in a secret, the harder it is to keep.
01:02:15
Speaker
And it's just not there. And with the interviews that they have directly with one of the priests who performed the exorcism, all the different stories and accounts that we have, it's like,
01:02:32
Speaker
What happened?
01:02:35
Speaker
What are we doing?
01:02:39
Speaker
It's terrifying. Yep. That was that was one of the things I wanted to bring up after listening to the podcast. is just I guess we're jumping ahead a little bit, but it's just we have so many testimonies.
01:02:55
Speaker
And these are testimonies from people who really have no incentive, which they do highlight. They're like, these priests aren't actively you know seeking out these interviews um or seeking to like publicize this information.
01:03:10
Speaker
ah I mean, this it was supposed to be a secret. like and And again, it's jumping ahead and you're you're about to find out. This was supposed to be completely a secret. right And it kind of accidentally got out.
01:03:21
Speaker
um The one caveat I will give is in fast forwarding one of the, uh, monks who worked at the Alexian brothers hospital did seek out the author of the devil came to St. Louis, Troy Taylor to tell the story, but only after he had heard that he was writing the book, he was near death dying. and he's like, I want this to be told.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so I will give a caveat that they were trying to get the story out, but not in the way you'd think. Right. Um, But again, all angles, right?
01:03:57
Speaker
All angles. Let's talk a little bit about... um I guess we could start comparing the two stories between the real-life exorcism and the movie.
01:04:09
Speaker
Particularly, I wanted to get guys' thoughts, if you have any, on changing from a young boy in real life to a young girl. Is there anything, any thoughts that you guys have around that specifically?
01:04:22
Speaker
Yeah. No, not really. I think just misdirection on Blatty's part, which I appreciate. Yeah.
01:04:33
Speaker
This movie got a lot of the... So i I watched the movie... I re-watched the movie before I listened to the podcast. And now I feel like I just have to watch the movie again. Because listening to the podcast and thinking back on the movie of the what they portrayed in the film
01:04:53
Speaker
I guess have been quote unquote true for some of the things that happened is pretty unnerving. And I think would just add that much more horror to the film itself.
01:05:07
Speaker
It's, it's not an exact one-to-one, but, and you see this with a lot of like allegedly genuine exorcism cases. And before someone says like, well, you know, mental illness,
01:05:21
Speaker
the The number of like confirmed, like allegedly true exorcism, demonic possession cases that like the Catholic Church officially recognizes is post-1850.
01:05:34
Speaker
eighteen fifty I don't know. Like probably i like a handful. I would have fingers left over to count on, if I'm being honest. They don't really publicize it, and it's super hard to get approval to do one.
01:05:48
Speaker
um But from what we from the stories we do know, there are a lot of... It's not one-to-one, like, oh, there's like a checklist you go down. It's like, you didn't do this. You didn't do the head spin.
01:06:04
Speaker
You're not possessed. But there's like similar behaviors and like consistent reported things that it's like, okay, like there is some sort of phenomena or pattern here.
01:06:16
Speaker
if i recall correctly there kind of was a checklist that they have there were like five criteria that they had talked about on the podcast to kind of categorize so theyre there there are criteria but it's like decently broad and again at the end of the day it comes down to like getting the approval you can have all the criteria and that it's like you're not getting an approval for this this is a mentally ill person yeah um But it's like five things, and I have them listed here. I don't even know if it's five. but
01:06:47
Speaker
um Also crazy that the Catholic Church just like has this set of rules and criteria for this situation in case it happens, because it has...
01:07:02
Speaker
Things listed in the Roman ritual as being indicators of possible demonic possession. This is just right off Wikipedia. Include speaking foreign and or ancient languages of which the possess has no prior knowledge, supernatural abilities and strength, knowledge of hidden or remote things which the possessed has no way of knowing, and aversion to anything holy and profuse blasphemy and or sacrilege.
01:07:31
Speaker
It's not all of those things, but if it's a lot of them, it's one of those like where there's smoke, there's a demon from hell. Sounds like me on a Tuesday night. I'm getting brazy. in the club I'm on demon time at the bar. I'm in the club speaking Elvish.
01:07:50
Speaker
Hey girl, you speak Sumerian?
01:07:55
Speaker
Because I do. Spins head around. Oh my god.
01:08:01
Speaker
That was one of the things that's fantastical with the movie was the head spin, our iconic head spin. Oh, and the version that you guys watched was the staircase, the spider crawl thing in your movie?
01:08:14
Speaker
No. Okay. What do you mean? Apparently not. What is that? You don't know? No. There's like the really famous... crawling down the stairs? Yeah. Oh, like a... Yeah, upside down.
01:08:27
Speaker
oh that's a scene? Yeah. Is that just the director's cut? Did you watch the director's cut, I'm assuming? I don't know. I just knew it was part of the movie, but it wasn't part of the one that I watched. Oh, okay, okay. might be in The Exorcist 2.
01:08:40
Speaker
Oh. There's like four of them. a lot. Hang on,
Details of Roland Doe's Exorcism
01:08:44
Speaker
let me look that. There are actually a lot of Exorcist movies, including two prequels which star Stellan Skarsgård as Father Marin. What?
01:08:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got to get on this. They can't be that good. I haven't seen two. I've seen three. Three is wild. If you want to watch, and William Peter Blatty directed it.
01:09:03
Speaker
Ooh. And it's nuts. It is just one of the most interesting movies I've ever seen. What'd you find, Tachi? It is in the first movie. It's as soon as, who is it, the detective?
01:09:18
Speaker
Or somebody breaks the news about Burke. And then they just leave the house and then she comes down the stairs goes back and then the scenes over there's just spitting up blood.
01:09:30
Speaker
I know there's a director's cut version of the movie, so maybe it's in that version of the film. Might be. Yeah. like how we're just ignoring the true story, like trying to not dive into it.
01:09:41
Speaker
and What do you, okay, how do we, do you want to, should we talk about like similarities? Yeah, the similarities, like let's talk about like the bed, what record, like what's recorded to have happened in real life.
01:09:55
Speaker
And then we can kind of see what we see in the movie, but like just talk about like what happened in real life. So yeah i can, I'll start there.
01:10:06
Speaker
and Okay. um We can do because I do want to tell the story of like how we know all this. Because I think it's really it's one of I think the most fascinating parts of the case is like how the true bits actually came out outside of like the the weird stuff that The Washington Post reported.
01:10:23
Speaker
So. so
01:10:30
Speaker
It did take place in the D.C. Maryland area. So that part is true. um and That's where the story started. and it was it started in ah in March of
01:10:45
Speaker
um
01:10:48
Speaker
like the movie this story started with noises They heard ah scratching in the walls, squeaking noises that sounded like shoes, someone walking around, someone banging stuff. That's all we're going to know.
01:11:07
Speaker
Like in the movie... An exterminator was called and rat poison and traps were placed and nothing was done about it. like that like It didn't turn up anything. There was no mice or rats. Malik.
01:11:21
Speaker
Real quick, to not avoid the true story. i didn't I just remembered i want to shout out another one of my favorite scenes in The Exorcist. It was when the mom first goes up into the attic with the flame.
01:11:34
Speaker
I think it was a candle. She's trying to look for the noises. Yeah. It's so creepy. It's so unnerving. And we kind of do get a jump scare in this movie with just like the sound of the flame flicking up.
01:11:49
Speaker
But when the one of the workers like comes up into the house and she gets scared and spooked right before, but the camera is just like panned on her and it's dark. And it all happened so quick, but the flame just bursts like that quick second when you think she's about to find something.
01:12:05
Speaker
Oh, i so I stood up in my room and I was applauding. It's so good. was like, this movie is cooking. Anyway, go ahead. ah just That jogged my memory on that one.
01:12:18
Speaker
That is a great scene. know um But like in the movie, there were no rodents found in the house. None. like It didn't work. So noises kept continuing, and like in the movie, the bed started to shake.
01:12:32
Speaker
And I mean, like this thing shook. while he was ah While the boy was allegedly sitting still on it, it would rock back and forth. It even fell off the frame at one point.
01:12:43
Speaker
And I didn't try and do it. On my mattress, because I don't really have like a traditional box spring. got one of those purple mattresses. Shout out purple. Sponsor us.
01:12:54
Speaker
um Flex. I couldn't get it off the bed frame, but that thing also... i mean, Malik, you helped me move. You remember it. You can't move them. It was like carrying a neutron star.
01:13:08
Speaker
It was actually sort of shaking. i'm like, I think there's a demon.
01:13:14
Speaker
um But I can imagine like trying to shake a like a bed off your frame while just laying on it would be pretty hard um and for not someone to be like stop shaking the bed like you know like think it's pretty obvious when someone's acting up um
01:13:36
Speaker
yeah And that stuff just like escalated, slowly escalated. It slowly continued. um Furniture moved, books flew off the shelves, ah chairs tipped over. his His desk at school started to shake violently. the the one thing That's my favorite part. the The one thing that really differed from the movie was this happened like outside of the Doe family home. Yeah.
01:14:03
Speaker
um it happened outside of their home in uh their reverend's home um and i think a family's home as well and friends saw it too uh one of the things that was like really early on in the case that kept getting brought up a lot is that when roland was sitting in a recliner like a big recliner it like the back legs lifted up and tipped over while he was sitting in it and like threw him out the chair.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. Like it, it tips forward, which seems not possible. Just like someone behind, just like throwing it Yeah. Almost. Yeah. the yeah People saw this happen. Now, yeah.
01:14:48
Speaker
The one thing before anyone brings up, I will say he did come from a fairly religiously overbearing Lutheran family. That's nothing against like Lutherans. I'm just bringing up the denomination. They were a religiously overbearing family. His mom and grandma were.
01:15:03
Speaker
He was a troublemaker at school. He probably had some sort of ADHD, ADD type um disorder.
01:15:16
Speaker
And, you know, he wasn't like an upstanding, like, you blonde haired, blue eyed girl like Reagan was. But he had friends. You know, he wasn't like a complete antisocial person. He was a bit of a bully.
01:15:33
Speaker
Allegedly, but. Nothing out of the realm of what a snotty like 14 year old would be. Yeah. um My favorite, um real quick, I just wanted to say when I was listening to the podcast, hearing the incident at school of the desk shaking, that one is like one of the few that kind of got to me.
01:15:58
Speaker
I was like, that's... Like the fact that it was outside of the home. Yeah. two my This is happening at school. And it made me think of the the scene in Hereditary. i was Yes. Yeah, it's going to bring it up. So I feel like that's got to be, I don't know if that could be like a nod to the true story, but like that's exactly what I thought of.
01:16:16
Speaker
And then he just never showed up at school again. it wouldn't surprise me if Ari Aster was in the know about this. Like this deep about it. I'm sure he was. Yeah. I'm sure he was. Something he wanted to probably see from the movie and is like, you know what?
01:16:28
Speaker
I'm going to throw it in mine. One of the funnier things to imagine that was happening to him, not that this was was funny, but there was a description of him sitting in a rocking chair and it spinning around like a top with him on And I'm sure it would terrifying to actually witness, especially because his feet weren't on the ground. He was like curled up in a ball on it.
01:16:53
Speaker
But imagine just just like the thought of that thing spinning. Something out of Looney Tunes. you As fast as it can go. But he was taken to doctors, ah both physical and mental, and neither really thought anything was wrong with him.
01:17:12
Speaker
So they sought the advice of their minister, um the Reverend Luther Schultz that we mentioned earlier.
01:17:22
Speaker
He also witnessed this phenomena, and he made that report to the Parapsychology Foundation within Duke. um he was one of He did the experiment of pulling ah Roland and his family into his home to see if the activity would follow him, and it did.
01:17:44
Speaker
I believe this was the one where he was pulled off the, where the mattress was pulled off the bed. And then ah Reverend Schultz set up like a blanket fort on the, with the mattress on the floor.
01:17:57
Speaker
And then that got pulled around the room with him on it. The boy on it. Hell no. Yeah. Get me off this way. So then where the story starts to get a little murky is how exactly the church got involved.
01:18:12
Speaker
Some people think that the family went to get a second opinion from a Catholic. Some people think that Reverend Schultz recommended it, that they go see a Catholic priest.
01:18:24
Speaker
um I was a little confused how like they fully started to get involved. like The time between like the death's happening and the the full-on exorcism. what What we do know is this. We do know that Roland was brought to a hospital in Georgetown.
01:18:39
Speaker
This was corroborated by medical records. um That he was in the hospital at the time, like the story claimed that he was. um And this was a it was a Jesuit hospital, so it was a Catholic hospital.
01:18:53
Speaker
We do not know if a priest was there with him, but there is a story actually from a witness that that can that also led Credence to him being at this hospital for the reason of this possession. And this, I don't remember this being in the podcast, but this story really stuck out to me. This is on page 90 of The Devil Came to St. Louis.
01:19:16
Speaker
um So this comes from friend's, like a witness's friend's father, or yeah. And it occurred in 1949 in the old infirmary at Georgetown.
01:19:28
Speaker
There had been an outbreak of flu that year, and most of the 12 to 15-year-old boys in the neighborhood, including this friend's father, were moved to the infirmary for observation. According to the source, he said that one night around 9 p.m., two doctors and a boy who looked about 13 walked into the room that he and a number of boys were housed in.
01:19:49
Speaker
Needless to say, my friend's father, as well as the other boys, knew nothing about this boy. My friend's father said he looked directly at the boy, as did the other boys. They use the word boy a lot here.
01:20:01
Speaker
He said that the boy glared into his eyes. He said that at that moment he was terrified and that some of the other boys began saying aloud the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary. He said he was so frightened by the boy's eyes that he could not sleep for many nights.
01:20:16
Speaker
He said that after about five minutes, the boy and the doctors left the room. My friend's father said to me he found out about a year later that the boy was the one who was possessed by the devil. that the boy was held overnight in the infirmary before being moved to St. Louis.
01:20:30
Speaker
So third hand account. That's crazy. But I love that story too much to not read it on the pod. Oh my God.
01:20:39
Speaker
We do know, and this is again, is a major difference between the movie and the story. is that the exorcism in the movie ends in Maryland.
01:20:50
Speaker
The exorcism in real life ended in St. Louis. Now, the Doe family had a lot of family in St. Louis, and they thought the change of scenery might do Roland some good.
01:21:03
Speaker
So they move out there for good while, hoping that this would help, and like almost immediately, it did not help.
01:21:16
Speaker
Now, his cousin was a college student in St. Louis and had a teacher who was a Jesuit priest named Raymond Bishop.
01:21:31
Speaker
She asked Raymond Bishop to meet with her family and the boy um because she thought they Bishop might be able to help. she trust This was someone she trusted. This was someone who she thought was really smart.
01:21:47
Speaker
um If you're not familiar with, like the Jesuits are basically like the research wing of the Catholic Church. They kind of do their own thing. like most like ah most like universities and like hospitals are run by Jesuits because they're big on like science and medical advancements and research and education and things like that. That was like their whole shtick.
01:22:10
Speaker
um so this i mean like To be a Jesuit means like you're devoting your life to the church and to research of some kind. like You're cooking in the lab. um so But Raymond Bishop was someone that she trusted, this cousin trusted very, very much.
01:22:27
Speaker
And, um, initially Bishop was a little skeptical, but he did agree to come and he did meet with Roland and he was disturbed by the story and the, and he did witness phenomena, but did not quite believe an exorcism was necessary or if he was possessed, which is fair, you know, like even in the movie, there was some doubt on whether or not Reagan was possessed initially.
01:22:59
Speaker
After witnessing writing appearing on Roland's body, there's another similarity there, writing appearing on the skin, yeah was when Bishop conferred with a priest that he trusted named Father William Bodern.
01:23:14
Speaker
Father William Bodern is Father Merrin. yeah like we'll just We'll just get that out of the way. Father William Bodern is the Father Merrin character. After they both witnessed a wide variety of activity. Now, like we said, this is the part where we're not doing the story justice things went on for a long time in this house in St. Louis for them to get to the point that they went to the archbishop for an exorcism and were given permission.
01:23:42
Speaker
So they were given permission by the church to perform this exorcism. I do want to say the writing being something written in what really happened and seeing it in the movie. And it happened multiple times.
01:23:58
Speaker
It happened a lot, like nightly. That's, uh,
01:24:05
Speaker
that's no good for me.
01:24:09
Speaker
Here's the biggest difference.
01:24:14
Speaker
In the movie, the exorcism is one night
01:24:18
Speaker
in real life. The exorcism was started in March and ended in April. And they were doing this every night.
01:24:29
Speaker
The craziest part about that time frame is that the archbishops swore these priests secrecy.
01:24:37
Speaker
Which means that they could not take off their duties. They had to perform Mass. They had to teach class. They had to go to class if they were a student.
01:24:48
Speaker
You'll see the student in a second.
01:24:51
Speaker
They would be getting home at like four in the morning from this, get like an hour of sleep and wake up. After this was over, Father Bodern's, i think it was Father Bodern's brother, thought his brother had cancer because he had lost like 40 pounds.
01:25:07
Speaker
Oh my God. His brother was a doctor.
01:25:12
Speaker
Yeah. That's terrible. Did they get paid for this? No. don't think so. Foul poverty. Yep. I would show up and I'd be like, you know what, man?
01:25:24
Speaker
We know what's happening. I'm sorry. Good luck. Good luck. I wonder what happens like if you leave an exorcism untouched. but So I don't think either Bishop or Bodern wanted to be a part of this. And the Archbishop was like, you guys should do it.
01:25:45
Speaker
They're like be really good at this. Um... Because it is like a hard it is like allegedly like a very hard and strenuous process. like It's just exhausting.
01:25:57
Speaker
um So they were sworn to secrecy, and they had to perform all this in secret, unbonnosed to everyone, while still putting on the masquerade that they were living a normal life. they did not want like The church did not want this to get out they for a number of reasons, um but all of which were fair.
01:26:17
Speaker
ah Yeah. um All of which were fair. But there was a third and there ended up being like like Taji said earlier, 48 people like witness this um
Walter Halloran's Involvement
01:26:30
Speaker
there. But there was like a third main character on Team Priest that helped in this exorcism, except he didn't really perform any of the exorcisms.
01:26:38
Speaker
His name was ah Walter Halloran. He is kind of the Damien Karras character in this story. He was like an ex-football player, young, strong. He was a seminary student.
01:26:51
Speaker
He got roped into this. How pissed would you be? Super pissed. It sounded like he got roped into it because so he needed to drive... the other priest to this happening, even though he didn't know because the other priest had bad vision and couldn't really drive. And they had a relationship, like a prior relationship.
01:27:09
Speaker
So he's like, Hey, just come inside real quick. Like, i want to show you something. No, literally like they were walking in and how the book told it was they're walking in and they're like, um, yeah. So like, we're going to perform an exorcism tonight and, uh, you're going need to hold them down. Cool. Cool. cool Love it. Love it.
01:27:28
Speaker
can I have no other plans. Poor guy. yeah He was just roped into it. Show me that demon.
01:27:36
Speaker
Demon's about to get the smoke. he's like You get Cam Scadaboo to come hold down the possessed boy. And it didn't work.
Bizarre Occurrences During Exorcism
01:27:45
Speaker
It didn't work.
01:27:46
Speaker
It didn't work at all. yeah um there's and know There's some solace in that. i mean They potentially saved a life. Yeah. Or least extended.
01:27:59
Speaker
Roland died in what?
01:28:03
Speaker
and What year did he actually end up passing?
01:28:07
Speaker
2018. And then his real identity was revealed in 2021. Yep. yep That's such a long time. He lived a really long life. In the last years we the real.
01:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, maybe maybe the effort was worth it. Yeah. Good for them. Some of the other things that were witnessed um that were similarly in the movie.
01:28:35
Speaker
So the 48 witnesses, and they came through a number of things. So there were a lot of different venues for the exorcism in St. Louis. um There was the ah Doe household.
01:28:46
Speaker
There was the rectory where ah Father Bishop and Bodern lived. And then there was the Alexian Brothers Hospital in their insane wing. The Alexian Brothers, it was a group of monks. They ran a hospital.
01:29:01
Speaker
um This hospital specialized in men's care and was actually the first true psychological ward in St. Louis. um So these people were no strangers to people afflicted with mental disorders.
01:29:14
Speaker
Not at all. All of them involved were like, that wasn't a mental disorder. Which is terrifying. um So some of the things that happened that in the book and the movie that were were similar.
01:29:29
Speaker
A lot of vomiting. lot of vomiting. yeah Pissing, swearing, blaspheming. um The masturbation, the infamous masturbation scene in the movie apparently happened many, many nights.
01:29:44
Speaker
And... and We don't really know exactly what happened, but we just know that vulgarities of the sexual variety happened. Um...
01:29:57
Speaker
One second. the volul The vulgar scene that we see in the movie. So I started this movie at home, but I had to finish it the next day on the plane. And Cam was sitting to the right of me, and then some older woman was sitting to the left of me.
01:30:11
Speaker
um I hope she wasn't watching what I was watching. She probably thought something was wrong with me, but 20 minutes into the flight was the scene with the cross and her yelling. And I was just like,
01:30:24
Speaker
That poor woman. Look at her. She was reading a book, so I was hoping she wasn't just like peering at what I was watching, but I felt a little like, oop um I'm sorry. That woman was Linda Blair.
01:30:41
Speaker
A lot of stinky smells, apparently. Ew. Apparently, the exorcism reeked. Like, people would walk by outside and smell it. Ew. There were, like, one of the urban legends in the area for a long time was apparently, like, the noises and smells that were coming out of the room.
01:31:00
Speaker
And, like, people walking by had no idea what was going on, but they smelled it. Never know what's going on in someone else's house. The thing just stank. Like... Um...
01:31:12
Speaker
And, you know, the even the levitation some people claim happened. Not everybody involved claims that it happened. someone claims that they are ah Walter Hallor and I believe claimed that he saw the bed levitate.
01:31:28
Speaker
Yeah, about it like a foot in the air. Yeah. um He's on the record saying this. I believe one of the Alexian brothers said that the boy levitated.
01:31:38
Speaker
but I am not sure about
Conclusion and Debate on Possession
01:31:40
Speaker
that one. I couldn't find it when I was writing the show notes. Um, but i mean, there was so much going on and then the strength, I mean, he was fighting off multiple grown men. I mean, we saw Reagan punch people out.
01:31:56
Speaker
Apparently Roland did too. um, Like he broke, like Taki, you said he broke Halloran's nose. Just straight up broke it. mean, you could do that as a kid, but when you're fighting off people and then doing it, like, pretty impressive.
01:32:14
Speaker
Kind of demonic. No. We're not here trying to influence you one way or the other. But the exorcism ended after over a month.
01:32:26
Speaker
It took over a month of, like, nightly getting in there, whipping out the Roman Rite, and praying, literally, that this thing would go away. um
01:32:39
Speaker
I i want to get your guys' thoughts on how it ended. Okay. like What did you think? like What was going through your head when they were walking through how it ended?
01:32:53
Speaker
Before we talk about it. like Before I tell the listener about it.
01:32:59
Speaker
Tachi? um
01:33:03
Speaker
I don't know, it felt, we're about the podcast, right? Or the story compared to the movie? Yeah, like when the demon actually leaves his body. Yeah. um it It felt so distant from the movie at this point that it just felt like a whole different horror story. So it was just a different way for me to feel disturbed, which was great, I guess.
01:33:29
Speaker
He hasn't slept in weeks, guys. I want to know, this will be like, I guess, like my own research after this episode, but there's a specific word they used that kind of helped catapult the end of, yeah.
01:33:46
Speaker
I want to know like the significance of that word, like why that was the word. It's Lord in Latin. Okay. It's what? Lord. Okay.
01:33:58
Speaker
Okay. So it's Lord in Latin. And um I guess apparently the there was like a side possession that happened, but like a biblical one to draw out this demon, call it by name, and say Dominus that started these convulsions, the most violent convulsions that they had.
01:34:21
Speaker
um It was just like, it it felt like ah it was a real battle going on towards the end of it. So, earlier in the exorcism, apparently the demon had said that for it to leave, it would have to be when Roland said a specific word.
01:34:39
Speaker
The demon also only called itself spite, which is like... didn't want to say it out loud. Yeah. It only referred to itself as spite, um which is just so scary.
01:34:51
Speaker
um I think like it calling itself spite is way more scary than like Beelzebub or Baphomet. Like Captain Howdy. Yes, spite. um Base name.
01:35:03
Speaker
I'm just kidding. I'm joking. the The boy allegedly, and this is according to the witnesses, um was overcome by a like a third voice.
01:35:16
Speaker
And it was that of St. Michael the Archangel. That's what it identified itself as. And it cast the demon out. And it said the word Dominus. Which means Lord in Latin. um And that was ah allegedly the word.
01:35:31
Speaker
And he did go through like the most violent convulsions of the whole time. I mean, just body twisting in all sorts of weird ways. And all that. And after that, it was over.
01:35:45
Speaker
It never started up again.
01:35:51
Speaker
What are your guys' theories on this story? Before we talk about kind of the aftermath.
01:36:00
Speaker
I don't know. Like... Do you think it was mental illness? Or do you think he was faking it?
01:36:08
Speaker
I feel how you feel,
Roland's Life Post-Exorcism
01:36:10
Speaker
Tachi. I feel torn. Because... i myself, I'm not a religious person.
01:36:19
Speaker
So... this was the part of yeah This was the part that I was like dreading to talk about because like i don't even like i just don't I just don't know. you know It's started it? Just why?
01:36:32
Speaker
terrifying and want so the question some of the the main question that i have is like like why this boy what started it just why and hearing happen how it ended the whole sequence of events during this exorcism i don't know man it's uh it's something for sure yeah it's very strange i i feel torn because
01:37:07
Speaker
like we talked about in the last episode with the ghost stories, I had these experiences that I cannot for the life of me explain or rationalize with science as we know it.
01:37:19
Speaker
And, um,
01:37:24
Speaker
I can't rule it out. And like I was alluding to earlier when we were getting into the, the true story where, you know, I was mentioning that, um,
01:37:38
Speaker
I don't know what I was mentioning at this point. I have such terrible memory, but my point is that like these people don't really have anything or not these people.
01:37:51
Speaker
Some of them have no incentive to have this story get out. They have no incentive to become famous for it. um Yet they, they have these, you know, official testimonies and,
01:38:09
Speaker
It's just like, why would they do this if it was fake or if it wasn't fake? It's what they experienced. Um, whether it's real or not, I don't know.
01:38:20
Speaker
We don't know, but it's just like, if it is real, that's, that's fucking crazy. If it's real, then I got a lot of, i have a lot of like introspection to do, but yeah, I'm with you. I'm like, why lie? Yeah. Yeah.
01:38:39
Speaker
I don't know. It's... I'm in the camp of... Something unexplained happened.
01:38:50
Speaker
I'm not going to say it was demonic possession. And I'm not going to say that he was overcome by St. Michael the Archangel and it was cast out. But there were too many people involved who had knowledge of medicine.
01:39:07
Speaker
I don't care if this was 1949.
01:39:11
Speaker
is too many people involved had had either direct experience with mental illness, like criminally insane, um you know, physical illness.
01:39:24
Speaker
Too many people that saw this had experience with this. I don't think he faked it. I just don't see how he could fake everybody out for as long as he did that well.
01:39:41
Speaker
he would have had to slip up at some point. So I don't think he was faking it for attention. It would be the best con in history if this 14-year-old kid managed to fool everybody.
01:39:54
Speaker
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Yes. i I actually think like Occam's razor is isn't says that he didn't fake it.
01:40:05
Speaker
It would just be too hard to get away with. What is that? Like, sure, he he could scratch words and do himself, but like to never be noticed doing it like. For some like, dude, what are you doing? Why are you scratching yourself? And like, apparently he did like at one time, but there were others where it's like the words clearly appeared.
01:40:24
Speaker
But he wouldn't be able to consistently get away with all this stuff. And then there were a couple instances where he did say things that were like secrets that he wouldn't have known. Like there's no way he would have known.
01:40:36
Speaker
It's one of the criteria. um He did refer to things that like, especially some of the priests were like, you know, kind of keeping private and there's no way he would have known. Like you can't, you can't make that up. You can't.
01:40:48
Speaker
i just I am in the camp with you. i just don't know. I don't know what it was. I think it was something genuinely unexplained. And i don't think we'll ever know because we weren't there.
01:40:59
Speaker
yeah But we are close to it. Because we get all of this from a case study called um
01:41:15
Speaker
A Case Study by Jesuit Priests.
01:41:20
Speaker
written by Father Raymond J. Bishop.
01:41:27
Speaker
And this was The Exorcist's Diary, his journal detailing everything night by night as it happened.
01:41:37
Speaker
And this is where we get all this information from besides like the witnesses. and We get a lot of the witnesses from that book. That's where they were named and identified and you know later reached out to. Um...
01:41:49
Speaker
We kind of know the follow-up from that and other documents that were found. The story of how it got found was is actually like just crazy to me because it was found in the wing of the building they did the exorcism.
01:42:09
Speaker
It was sent over by Father Bishop to there in case they wanted to have it as like a case study on file in case this ever happened again. And brother Cornelius there decided it was the best idea to lock it in the room that it happened and never open that room again.
01:42:25
Speaker
Yeah. And people who worked there remember that room being locked and they like originally knew the reason why. And as years went on, it was just like, oh, that's the room that locked.
01:42:36
Speaker
And it's a weird room. Like people said it was always cold. Like they heard weird noises coming from it. They just thought that room is weird. When they were demolishing that wing. There's a couple different stories on exactly what happened.
01:42:50
Speaker
When they were demolishing the wing, they went into the room and they found it. And copies were made and sent out. It was sent to Georgetown University where it was...
01:43:01
Speaker
sitting there and uh, William Peter Blatty tried to get a copy of it and see it, but he never did. He never was able to get a copy of it.
01:43:12
Speaker
Like I said earlier in the pod, he did speak to, father Bodern. Um, and so he kind of got some general background on it, but you know,
01:43:24
Speaker
That case study is like the basically, like it just walks through everything we have on it. Yeah. And you know we're almost lucky that it was found.
01:43:36
Speaker
Father Bodern actually believed that the case should have been publicized because he wanted people to know that like the evil was real and they needed to be fearful of it. He believed it was genuine. In fact, all the priests believed it was genuine.
01:43:49
Speaker
Something mysterious, not conventionally explained. um But what happened with the boy? um Like I said, he he died in the 2010s.
01:44:02
Speaker
He lived a long life. ah He was married. I don't know if he had kids or not, but he was married. He did get divorced. um He worked at NASA in Maryland. Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:15
Speaker
He worked at NASA. He had a patent with NASA for the the foam that ah prevents things from burning up on impact. Oh, that's cool. So he was a smart guy and obviously had the aptitude to work at NASA.
01:44:29
Speaker
Yeah, because he sold his soul. Yeah. ah hu But he didn't publicize it. He did one interview, and it was with the author Troy Taylor. In that interview, he said, this will be the only time I'll speak to you.
01:44:43
Speaker
He's like, I never read the book. I never watched the movie. And um ah he remembered that he was in St. Louis. He remembered the events happening, but he doesn't remember the events.
01:44:57
Speaker
The way he phrased it was, as far as he was concerned, what happened there did not concern him. ah Well... I don't if like that phrasing, but I think I get what he means.
01:45:11
Speaker
I get what he means. That it wouldn't he wasn't in the driver's seat. yeah you know Like he lost consciousness. i don't know that guy. That wasn't me. It was the demon.
01:45:24
Speaker
Whatever I did does not concern me.
01:45:29
Speaker
But... There you have it. Yeah, I... um I don't know. it's I and just have very like big feelings about it that I can't even articulate.
01:45:46
Speaker
I enjoy listening to the story. It makes me appreciate the movie more. Man, I just want to watch movies. I don't need to deal with the real life saying repercussions. House is still there, by the way.
01:45:58
Speaker
If you guys love us a lot and donate to us, We will go do a night in the house. What? Who's we? Who's Me and Malik and Tachi.
01:46:12
Speaker
I'm putting it in record right now. It's going to happen. Whose house? 50,000 subs. And we're doing it. If we... Sure. If we ever reach 50,000, we can go.
01:46:25
Speaker
Deal? Deal. Deal. Which house? The exorcist house. The St. Louis one. How many nights? One night.
01:46:38
Speaker
Can we get there at like 11 p.m.?
01:46:42
Speaker
No. I want to show up in the daylight so I know what it looks like. Okay. ah Deal. Let's go. We're fate. It's official. we're testing official um I'm very interested to read this book.
01:46:56
Speaker
If you're interested to read the book by Troy Taylor, and it's called The Devil Came to St. Louis. We can link it in the show notes yeah and the link to the podcast. yeah um The Astonishing Legends podcast, for sure.
01:47:07
Speaker
we i had so much fun making this episode. This was, like I said, something I was very passionate about. it's a story that I love. And we hope you liked it, too.
01:47:18
Speaker
Sure. Be careful. so if you want to Learn more. Go listen to the podcast. Go read the book. Or if you dare, you could go read The Exorcist Diary for yourself.
01:47:38
Speaker
Nope. Yeah, I'm okay. I'm good. just because of my reading list. you know I just have so many other dreams. No other reason. lot of better books to read.
01:47:51
Speaker
I don't got the time.
01:47:53
Speaker
But I had fun. I had fun for our first Halloween special and wrapping up this spooky month. I think I'm also ready to get into some nice like yeah family movies. Something cozy.
01:48:05
Speaker
I'm ready to watch The Holdovers. I'm capping it off with Charlie Brown Halloween. Nice. There we go. Well, I'm excited to get into those movies. And I hope you, the listener, are too.
01:48:18
Speaker
Thank you for tuning in to Spooktober and our first Halloween special. I hope you have a great Halloween. Be safe and we will see you in the next one. Bye.
01:48:29
Speaker
Bye.