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The Sunk-Cost Fallacy of Finishing Games (ft. Nick Calandra) | Windbreaker Podcast
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On this week’s episode of Windbreaker, Marty, Frost, and Nick discuss the sunk-cost fallacy of finishing games... even if you're not enjoying them.
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Transcript
Introduction and Merchandise Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:38
Speaker
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00:00:58
Speaker
Hello everyone,
Podcast Introduction and Host Lineup
00:00:59
Speaker
and welcome to Windbreaker Podcast, episode number 10 for Monday, February 5th, 2024. I'm Marty Sliva, joined by Frost and Nick Calandra, and of course, producer Eric. Yahtzee sadly cannot be here today. His power's been out since last night. Bad storms in the Bay Area. No power for Yahtzee. He tried to put a toffee on a hamster wheel.
00:01:19
Speaker
power generator and toffee was not having any of it so but luckily we're joined by the toffee chimera there in the corner i hated that eric i hated that so much i hated that so much uh so yeah yachty is feeling better he should be back on yachty tries on wednesday and of course back on this show uh next week but thank you all so much for tuning in today uh we've great show for you if you're tuning in live or on your favorite podcast service of choice and uh remember that supporting us is supporting uh independent games media which we really appreciate so you could do so over at our patreon or
00:01:48
Speaker
by hanging out in the comments here and plopping down those super chats, which we get to in the back half of the show.
When is a Game 'Finished'?
00:01:54
Speaker
Because today, we got a doozy. We got a doozy of a pickle in terms of our topic today, which is, when is the game over?
00:02:01
Speaker
For us, what do we feel about being like, all right, I'm done with this game? Is it when credits roll? Are we post-crediting? Do we have eternal games? Have we finally learned to fight the demons of the sunk costs fallacy and just be like, you know what? I'm not having fun anymore. We gotta leave. So I guess right off the bat, Frost, for you, when is the game over?
00:02:25
Speaker
Games over? This can be weird because Nick and I both, I think we tend to play those forever games, so there are no credits that we'll say you're done, you know? And those kinds of games, it's somewhere after the wife's left, but before the kids are gone too, right? So that seems to be the sweet spot for me. The Deadline, that's also a nice one, nice tacked on one, but that's for more the extremes. For me, as soon as I'm not having fun, because I think it's for the best, I leave amicably, and this can be for like,
00:02:55
Speaker
Skyrim or whatever some people leave like oh, that's it. You've ruined it. That's I've had enough of you me I go I'm not having as much fun as I'd like to be having and maybe and I want to give you another chance later on I Used to be like very like I gotta try it now because I didn't believe that games is reheated Well, and and like I'm gonna try it again later and I was like no you don't say you don't like games as leftovers yeah, no some some games just don't reheat themselves well, especially because like I
00:03:21
Speaker
I didn't vibe with it the first time, and now I know exactly what Chapter 1 is going to be, so now I'm doubly bored. I'm going to have to slog through to get to the more exciting stuff, so now it's starting at a worse spot than it was before. For me, it's just as soon as I'm not vibing it genuinely, that's just it. As soon as I go, not having as much fun as I could have, definitely not sunk cost fallacy because if people go, I'm going to be here until I get my $50 back, I will pay 45 to stop right now.
00:03:51
Speaker
I will double down to get my hard earned time back. Absolutely. Nick, how about you? I'm kind of like a, I feel like the odd one out on this because obviously for the last few years I've been using that Twitter thread to basically track the completed games I've been finishing. And I had a problem a few years ago where like I had a really
00:04:15
Speaker
hard time finishing games that weren't like linear adventures or open worlds that are like at least digestible and not just endless. Like, I don't know, Assassin's Creed Odyssey comes to mind for that. But this year, I've kind of taken a different approach because I've learned as much fun as I've had doing that list, I've kind of gotten stressed out because I'm like, I'm pushing myself to complete games. You know, I are enjoyable, but then I kind of burn out on after a bit.
00:04:44
Speaker
So now I'm kind of back into my problem that I had before where I was playing in Tears of the Kingdom and finished 50% of the game and then other games came out and I'm like, oh, I should go back and finish that at some point. I was enjoying that, but now I'm onto this new thing. So it's kind of, I don't know, for me, it's kind of difficult and I assume you're going to have the same answer because you and I play a lot of the newest stuff to kind of keep up with these conversations on Twitter and everything.
00:05:09
Speaker
And not finishing game means you get attacked for being a games journalist and you know, never completing the games you start and all that kind of stuff. So I just don't tweet. So no one affects me. I've already got that loophole there. That's true. That's true. And I have photographic evidence of all the games I finished because I had a head injury and I'm like, I'm going to play all spec ops today. That's it. Did you just play that the other day again?
00:05:30
Speaker
I played the entirety of it yesterday on stream. A nice four-hour single-setter. See? I love me my single-setters. Let me tell you, Chat was putting some bad emotes during white phosphorus scenes. I'm like, we should not be having fucking Fuzzy Bear show up during white phosphorus. He does not belong there. I was expecting your pizzazz. White phosphorus. But as far as this year goes, though, I've been better about a lot of these indie games. I'm trying for my backlog editor series.
00:05:57
Speaker
Eh, you know I enjoyed that, but do I enjoy it enough to like sit through and play another 10 hours of it? Nah, uninstall. Move on to the next thing.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah, it could be, it could be tough. It's almost, it's funny that Yahtzee's not here for this one because when is Yahtzee done with the game? And it's when he starts production on, yeah, fully ramblematic and then moves on to the next one. So like Yahtzee has like probably the most regimented answer of possibly literally anyone I know. Cause I think Yahtzee might be the only one who's like, these are the four days I play this game. And then it is out of my life, out of sight, out of mind. But bringing up sunk cost fallacy is interesting because
00:06:34
Speaker
I understand where it's coming from. If you are someone who is on a limited budget, like when I was a kid and I only got one or two games a year or one or two games for every half year, like no matter what the game was, I'm like, this is I'm going to see this through because this is all I have. Like what else do I have? And if that like $20, $40, $60 purchase is is very meaningful to you, I understand being like, well, I got to I got to put in that time because I put up that money.
00:07:04
Speaker
But, you know, at this point in my life, my time is so much more valuable to me than my actual money. So I kind of give it like a sniff test.
Sunk Cost Fallacy in Gaming
00:07:13
Speaker
It's almost like food to me. Even if I spent a lot of money on this thing and it starts to smell a little bit off, I'll just throw it away and be like, I don't want it. I don't want to deal with the repercussions afterwards. But there's also to me, some cause fallacy isn't just
00:07:26
Speaker
Ty, it isn't just money you spent. I also feel like if you really love a series, or if you are really excited for a thing, then you can almost feel like, I love Final Fantasy, 16 came out, I'm not enjoying it, but I gotta keep going because I love Final Fantasy and that's my thing, or
00:07:45
Speaker
I was so excited for the New Horizon game and it came out and I'm not vibing with it, but I was so excited for Horizon that I just got to keep pushing through it. And that's I don't know. That's something that that it's a hard pill to swallow. It's a. Yeah, it's a. I think, you know, we're going to have a more unique perspective on it just because our hobby is our job. And so, you know, can we really give our final thoughts on Horizon Forbidden West unless you finish it debatable?
00:08:15
Speaker
But yeah, I don't know. I think... I don't know. Iglisn's moving to Suckout Wind. I don't feel as constrained to that anymore because we're not tied to SEO or traffic and having to finish those games. So that's the business side of it. The personal side of it, for me, Iglis, is the...
00:08:34
Speaker
Stress in the back of my head that I didn't finish this thing that I started and I hate that feeling You're less of a gamer. You're less of a man. Not even know not even less of a gamer not even less of a gamer It is like part of that fallacy of like well, I already put you know, 25 hours in the tears of the kingdom Is it wait did I waste my time by not finishing it? Did you have fun? There's a thing. Did you enjoy that first? I did but now I'm stressed like you don't like
00:09:03
Speaker
Like Miyamoto is not going to come to your house and hand you it like a certificate. He's not going to be like, congrats, you read credits. I'm very proud of you, Nicholas. I got a tweet from Kojima for finishing Death Stranding. That's like close enough. You got a retweet because you gave it another shot. You came back in open minded. It's not like you got a retweet because you use the word Death Stranding in a tweet and Kojima will reach me. Don't take my certificate away from me. Yeah, I don't know. That's interesting. Like.
00:09:34
Speaker
You don't get stressed by not finishing a book that you started or finishing a TV series. I think other media are different, which is weird, but I do. If I start a movie, I'm going to finish it. I can probably count the movies I haven't finished on.
00:09:53
Speaker
But you wouldn't say if you watched an hour and 20 minutes of an hour and 50 minute movie and you didn't ever know I would just finish it. I don't like when I sit down with the movie, I don't know. And I finished it because it's a single sitting thing, which is smaller. Yeah. But shows and books. No, I there's plenty of shows. I'm just like, I'm just going to bow out of this. I'm either not enjoying it or I'm kind of seeing the writing on the wall. I know exactly what's going on or other things take
00:10:18
Speaker
take priority. Books, usually when I start a book, I finish it and not even a, I'm just very particular in what, I don't take a lot of chances with books. I'm very, I do the research and I know I'm going to enjoy this thing. Whereas like with games, I'll be like, well, let's see if it's going to go on here. Like for us, you and I are talking about playing 10,000 demos for Steam Next Fest stuff. And that's easy because it's easy to play a demo and after five minutes if you don't like it, just putting it down.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Games feel different to me for some reason. Is it an exterior? See, this is interesting because you're recovering from this, Nick. That was kind of like your new year, new me kind of thing. Yeah. Where if you could put a face in this Rorschach test, right? If you could put a face to the anxiety that is like, oh, you didn't finish, is it you? Is it the crowd that we're dealing with? Where does this come from? Is it just within you the whole time?
00:11:13
Speaker
I think it's mostly me. I think it's kind of tied to the business aspect of it. You want to talk about a game, but do I feel like I can talk about it accurately without finishing it? I don't know. If you do a traditional review, any review of a full product,
00:11:37
Speaker
The very first thing people will be like, did you finish the game? Did you finish the game? Did you finish the game? Oh, you played 40 hours of Assassin's Creed Odyssey, but you didn't get to the end. You can't review it then. It's like that's that's stressful on its own. But for me, I find it I just find, you know, that that video I edited a week ago or two weeks ago now was like that was cathartic for me because like back at Escapists and everything, I was just so stressed. I felt like I couldn't write an article. I couldn't finish a game or whatever because I was so stressed.
00:12:06
Speaker
I was, I was literally those last few weeks before everything imploded at the escapist. Like I was literally, I could not play a game without falling asleep. That's how stressed I was. So finishing, finishing that video was cathartic and like, um, I sat down, did this thing from start to finish. And so when I was super stressed at escapist and under that, under all that environment, like just sitting down and completing a game, even though it was like five hours, just felt good. Cause I was like, okay, I can add something to, I did this list. I finished it.
00:12:36
Speaker
So we can expect you that you're gonna finish Suicide Squad Kill Justice League? Fuck no. So why does that get a pass? That's the thing there where it's like... It's a life service game, it's never done. Well, that's one thing. I mean, to me though, it comes from like, do I care to be a part of this conversation, you know?
00:12:54
Speaker
Like, uh, the Star Wars crowd. I don't really, I don't really care to talk to any of them. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna crown those down my throat. Um, survival crafters. I'm more pressed to finish those one because I like them a lot. And then two, I want to actually have proper thoughts on them outside of just like, Oh, you play this final fan or no sea of stars. Right. I got about eight hours and I was good. I had a good time. I left amicably and I have not given a straightforward opinion. No one's compressed and like, yo, where's the cold take for sea of stars?
00:13:24
Speaker
But, you know, that's not necessary right now, I guess. Yeah, part of it is like, that's not your identity hasn't been like, you're not tethered to certain kind of franchises or things like that, where it's like, we need to know what Frost thinks about blank. Like, I don't know what would be.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It's not wrong there. Yeah, that might be the one. But I feel like you've talked about and championed so many different games since I've known you that obviously everyone's going to go to Yahtzee because they know he's such a huge Silent Hill fan to be like, what do you think of Silent Hill 2 by Bluebird team? That kind of thing. And so that's his crown of thorns to bear, to have to.
00:14:07
Speaker
you know, play through that and give everyone his opinion, which spoilers, probably not gonna like it. I think part of the feeling pressed to finish things is what drew me to begin with. So I'm highly selective at the start. And that like gives me a higher ratio of actually finishing the blasted thing. So I guess it's just, yeah, if I came in with no expectations and nothing changes like that, so that's a good one. But
00:14:30
Speaker
If we're talking duty bound, 100%. And I've asked you guys before, I'm like, how much do normal people go into a review for a piece? I was like, I have to finish it. Because what if? That does weigh down on me. Like, what if? But I've weaned back a little bit because I see it like food. What if 50% of what you ate was trash and then it just gets absolutely delicious, right? Well, that's just a horrible experience. That's something. I think that's the
00:14:59
Speaker
the nice thing about now that second win is like people like yes the thing about our team in general is like people are here for the personalities and not so much like oh did you give me the most fleshed out objective based review on suicide squad or like did you know they know what our tastes are did you did you play suicide squad for two hours yeah did you enjoy it no are you gonna finish it fuck no like you know that's kind of
00:15:25
Speaker
I think, at least on the business side, we're kind of at that place, too. It's funny, though, because there are a handful. You brought up Hades, which you did your cult take review of a little while back. And there are a handful of games to where, I don't know, if someone played, I'm about 20, 25 hours into like a dragon.
00:15:44
Speaker
infinite wealth. I have my opinions on the game, I have the stuff I like about the game, I have the stuff I don't like. I'm gonna keep playing it, but I don't feel like my opinions are invalid on it because I haven't finished it, because I'm going at my own pace. However, if someone is like, here's my opinion on Hades, I've only got to beat my dad once.
00:16:04
Speaker
That was and then here's my opinion on Hades or I here's my opinion on near automata I only got the a ending or I saw some people when I did my bite size on highland song say I Made it to the lighthouse. The game's nothing special or void stranger be like, yeah, I put about an hour and did some puzzles I don't know there's nothing special. There are certain games where I'm like I
00:16:25
Speaker
It's shitty to say, but until you get to a point, you actually haven't played the game. And I know that could be a shitty thing, and it's not even a, oh, it gets good after 15 hours, it's just...
00:16:37
Speaker
you haven't gotten to the thing yet. You're still in the waiting room of the thing. And I understand if you're like, my time is precious. I don't want to have to play through the same near four times in order to get to the thing. But I'm like, well, if you haven't, you kind of, I don't know. Like I don't care what you think of near at that point because you just, you can't engage in the conversation because you haven't even entered the, entered the building yet. That's right.
00:16:58
Speaker
That's why I don't even bother going in there like with survival crafters I know I'm gonna be there until When whenever the loop starts to open up and I've got a good decent chunk of it, right? I think there was even a comment saying that like yeah 60 hours seems like a reasonable amount of time to just Start getting through the the early opening bits and whatnot and there's some Yeah
00:17:18
Speaker
And like with JRPGs and you guys even tell me, I'll ask you about the Yakuza games and you're like, I don't know, 20 hours maybe until you kind of see that first. I like to go when the loop finally returns. I've seen one and I'll take maybe two or three, but some, they just open up slower. That's just how they go. So I kind of like don't, don't really jump into them to begin with. So it's easier to let go. But I'd say if I have a hard out, it's like, show me the first loop. If I don't like it, I'm just gone. Yeah. Some of, some of those games I feel like
00:17:48
Speaker
If you're not enjoying the taste of it after one run through, it's kind of hard to consider going again. I don't know. For me, I'm that guy. I only did the A playthrough of Nier. But I didn't love it enough to care enough to go back and experience the rest of it.
00:18:07
Speaker
And that was a weird one because that is a strange game to where you roll credits and a message from the developers comes up. That's like, thank you for playing near. We encourage you. Maybe try to play it again and see what happens. And I'm like, you just shouldn't have done that. You just shouldn't have rolled those credits. You just should have been like, just rewinded everything. Yeah. I see credit title screen to be honest and been like, Oh, that was all the prologue. This is when the game actually begins. But like,
00:18:34
Speaker
I don't know. I totally understand if you're like, well, I don't like, I'm not vibing with this, this, you know, anime bullshit. And I, the combat isn't doing anything for me. And I'm like, yeah, if you want to, if you want to, everyone are the robots and near nuns sound off. Are they nuns? They're not nuns. They're dressed a little bit like nuns. Um, after Casey finishes devil may cry, I feel like Casey should go through your near automata. All the endings. All the endings. I mean, like,
00:19:04
Speaker
It's going to sound like a broken record at this point. But when you get to the end of Nier, you're like, oh, this is the smartest thing anyone has ever done with video games. You're on a different level. Whereas if you play the A ending, you're like, all right, I got a semi-chub. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing right now, though.
00:19:20
Speaker
Um, but yes, for me, that is my golden rule. I see credits. I'm gone and you're like, all right. I don't care if I'm not done or not. To me, I'm done. Do you guys consider yourselves, uh, completionists at all in any, uh, in completionist just the term.
00:19:37
Speaker
We don't need to get into that. In terms of like, I see people in Discord and stuff and people in chat being like, oh, I just keep, I'm not really digging this anymore, but I got to get all the achievements. I got to get all the trophies. Like I got a man and this one's a real pain in the ass, so I'm taking a long time. Does that mean anything to you? I have gotten 100% achievements in exactly one game.
00:20:00
Speaker
Rainbow Six Siege. Sneaking. Damn. Sneaking. You had to have gotten 100% achievements and more than that. There's certain games where you just finish it, you get it? There's one achievement. I have one achievement singing Siege. I have not gotten it yet, but yes, no other game of it ever bothered. I used to care about achievements when I was growing up as little kids. That's how you get addicted to games. And then I realized that was going for points that gave me no money. And I was like, nah, fuck that. I don't know. Yeah.
00:20:27
Speaker
Like when I'm old and decrepit and on my way out, I'm not, I really don't think I'm going to go, God, I should have 100% at Assassin's Creed. Why didn't I get those flags and Damascus? I'm not going to feel that. Like not, not at all. I, I'm just there. I'm genuinely, I guess I'm more a little odd in that I am like the hedonistic critic and the, I'm just here for a good time, man. And if I feel like I checked out of a game too early, I almost feel like, um, what is it? What's that thing when you withdraw from a court case because you're too
00:20:58
Speaker
I was like, what, recuse yourself or something like that? Yeah, I'll recuse myself. But yeah, like in Sea of Stars, my opinion, I felt it was worth it to anyone who was like, oh, I also don't like RPGs. How was it for you? Well, we
Achievement Completion Mindset
00:21:17
Speaker
can relate to each other. And me saying, pretty solid eight hours, even for someone who doesn't like it. But if you want a serious opinion, I was like, no, fifth, I played the fifth.
00:21:26
Speaker
I didn't really finish it, didn't really finish it proper, I'm only here to have a great ball in time. Game over, credits, I think. Used to be my, for like, I guess like Far Cry, that was my goal. Actually that's why it clicked with me the second time. First time I was like, I'm gonna do everything. All the towers, I'm gonna shoot everything, unlock the will to beast.
00:21:48
Speaker
the foreskin wallet, but now I'm just going to roll the credits. I'm just a straight man storyline. Yeah. And that's a good wallet to me. It is. It's the most capacity you can get in a game. Yeah. Well, and that's like so much open world bloat is from all that content that just amounts to
00:22:06
Speaker
collect those to get achievement. Is that blue or is that me? I went in the first time. I hated it because I did go, I go to the bloody tower and I was, oh, there's a side quest over here. When you're at the buffet, you don't have to eat the salad. You can, there is no rule against just piling meat on the plate. You get weird looks, but this is the thing against it really. Korean barbecue, you can just eat meat all the time.
Critique of Game Design
00:22:32
Speaker
Having played Suicide Squad, the amount of time people are putting into these open world games to do those things, I'm starting to think might be skewing developer perception of why people are playing these games in the first place.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, they're doing it because they enjoy it or they're doing it because that's what you're giving them. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like Suicide Squad at least is maybe the first game where like it's been so egregious about it. Where within you guys are on stream with me in the first two hours, you are doing open world event style missions that have no mission structure, no
00:23:10
Speaker
uniqueness to them no nothing it's just collect this do that collect that like people have been so focused on like chasing these objectives for non-scripted non because everybody's like i don't want linear i don't want scripted anymore you know we've gone like complete open it's obviously a tangent to the discussion but that's part of the like the thing that makes it really hard for me to finish a lot of games now it's like just a lot of this stuff isn't fun anymore it's like and it's not that i don't enjoy games i love games but i
00:23:40
Speaker
Rescue three people and put them in a van on rooftops and Suicide Squad is about the most boring mission design I ever come across in a triple-a game in quite some time. It's an interesting one then in that sort of same vein
00:23:53
Speaker
Um, unless you had something to go with that, Marty, I was thinking, so, so it's not just bashing on the like games over at the credits. What games do, like what games do entice you to go beyond the credits?
Approach to Side Quests
00:24:04
Speaker
Surely like we've all had that game where it's like, Oh, I'm going to go back and maybe 100% it, or maybe there was something else to look at her. Like what drives you to go beyond the, uh, like credits are rolling. Are you waiting for the Marvel's scene at the end? You know?
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting thing, is I appreciate a game that has a very clear point of no return and tells me when that is. Yes. The most recent example, I was finishing up Prince of Persia, the Lost Crown. And there was a bunch of side quests I didn't do. There was a bunch of areas of the map I hadn't explored. There was a couple challenge rooms that I didn't understand how to unlock. And you get to a point where you're like, oh, this is it. You're about to fight the big bad.
00:24:42
Speaker
Do you want to go forward? And I stopped for a little bit and I was like, no, man. Yeah, maybe I some of these challenge rooms were really fun because I know when I roll credits, I am probably done. I am like tapped out on the game. And that doesn't mean I want to roll credits right now. But once I see those credits, I get I have very little desire to go back into that world to do anything. That doesn't mean I don't want to do all the stuff before the credits. But like I wrote a piece a few years ago about how
00:25:14
Speaker
in a lot of RPGs, I get this sort of like, I used to get this kind of like paralysis where I was like, well, I need to do all this. I need to get a gold chocobo. If I'm going to fight Sephiroth, then I need to get next to the round. Cause what? Well, I need to get everyone's limit break. Cause what, what's going to happen if I don't go there with that? And then at some point I was just like, just like, is, is breeding these weird birds bringing me joy? And if not, just go and fight the dude and go and go kill him. Um, I don't know, Nick, like you, do you futz around in, in open worlds or anything like that after you roll credits?
00:25:31
Speaker
When I hit that point of no return in a lot of
00:25:44
Speaker
I think the only games I've done that in are like Elden Ring because I could go back and go to the dungeons that I hadn't completed yet and they're all like super unique fun areas to explore.
00:25:57
Speaker
I think I went back in the Witcher because I liked a lot of the side, like the side quests were actually good. Yeah, I. Not not that many now, because like, you know, her horizon zero zero dawn is like continue after the credits. I'm like, now Forbidden West, same thing. Just as much as like those those worlds are super pretty, like the gameplay does never hook me enough. So I think it's just a case by case basis of like I finished the game and like I.
00:26:26
Speaker
was unintended finished with it, I guess, is what I would say. Like Elden Ring, you know, Elden Ring was a game like where I really wanted to go see that entire world. I love that game that much. And I'm like, I'm willing to go right back after the credits and keep playing again. But more often than not, like, you know, I'm at that point in Infinite Wealth and Yakuza right now.
00:26:46
Speaker
And there's just so much that I'm like, a lot of these, a lot of these side, like a lot of the story bits and all that are just these little conversations that you run into, which I know people that are like super heavily invested in the series love that stuff. They love the character building and all that. I'm just not that invested in it. I like the general, here's the plot. And I want to follow that and then finish the game up. So yeah, you know, 99% of the time, if it's like, do you want to continue this at the end of the game, if I'm,
00:27:14
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, I'm at the end of the game. I'm ready to go. Don't ruin my pacing. Like you guys are fans of more so than me, fans of your rogues, your deck builders, your dice builders, your spire slayers, your your those kinds of things. So like, what is it about those? Like, when is a game like that done? Is a game like that ever done? Like, Nick, you're still playing Marvel Snap. That's not a game that's ever done, right? Yeah, I mean.
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah, like even you know, you brought up roguelikes like those card games. That's part of the loop is just going back again and again, even if you roll credits the first time. But those those are so like maybe the best comparison is near automata where like to finish that game again and again, what it's like a 1520 hour time investment where I can finish like three rounds of slay the spire in an afternoon if I want. But when is when is that done? When are you like I've done it? I've slayed the spire.
00:28:12
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. I've never gotten to the complete. I've never got to like those games are like you unlock everything, you unlock the cards, you unlock all the enemies, you unlock all the player, the characters you can play as. So there's something like even if you finish the game, there's still things to unlock to unlock more gameplay.
00:28:30
Speaker
Maybe it's kind of like, you know, are you ever really done going to like a restaurant that you enjoy, right? It has this sense of like, I'm here, I had my meal, closure, and then when I'm feeling it, I'll go back to it. So it never ends because it feels like it does. Like after I got a winning run, I'm just going to play for an hour or something like that. It's because it doesn't press me to continue and push on and complete it that I can finish and come back.
00:28:58
Speaker
which is like, I don't know, it almost sounds backwards in that sense, like Slay the Spire, you can do, I don't know, 20 ascensions, I forgot what it's called, you can go for all of that, but in the end, because roguelikes are so, like, run-based, and they're so quick, they're just easier to come back to because it always does feel like it's over.
00:29:15
Speaker
It feels like that joy of revisiting a game, the sooner a game is done, the sooner you can now start the clock for the separation so that you can go, oh, I'm not feeling a bit of this again, you know? Because if I finish, I don't know, Witcher, how long before you play Witcher again?
00:29:32
Speaker
Sure, you'll get that itch again. But so with Rose, it's like, oh, I played it just two weeks ago. I'm feeling that itch again. You know, so that's what I miss about games, like keeping their scope in check because I used to be able to go back and just replay the Halo campaigns, whatever I wanted. Yeah. The uncharted one through, you know, uncharted two and three. I have no problem playing those over and over again. You know, first, the last of us, I have no problem playing again and again. But like last was part two, I want to replay. And it's like, oh, I got to put 25 hours in this thing. Like, oh, yeah.
00:30:02
Speaker
Because I don't remember how long that game was because I played it in like two sittings. Yeah. Like me too. Like I was like, don't look at me. I need to see what happens at the end of this game. And so like, I feel like it was all a fever dream. That is a long campaign. That is like maybe 20, 25 hours exaggerating, but 15, 18 hours at least. Yeah. You can finish most on charted two, three last of us and probably eight to 12. Yeah.
00:30:29
Speaker
I don't know. But again, that's an us thing because we have so many games to check out every week that it's hard for me to like consider like sitting in a replay game. I've already finished. But then you have, you know, we talk about people's forever games. Like you are playing, you keep playing Marvel Snap. You keep going back to Rainbow Six. Like Yahtzee talks about how he rolls a new farm in Stardew Valley every once in a while. Casey's constant streams Smash Brothers once a week.
00:30:56
Speaker
Until the heat death of the universe Those are games like I'm trying to complete though. I'm just playing because I enjoy them Yeah, but that's So there's no end to that enjoyment There's no like I guess for us you maybe that's a good point you made of like if you have a place where you're a regular at and you keep going back No one's ever like why do you keep going to the you're not going to the Cheesecake Factory because you want to finish everything on the menu you're going to the cheesecake factory cuz I do
00:31:22
Speaker
Does you like that? I have 250 items. I'm going to have one of each eventually. I stopped going to Kidoba when I walk in there like, we know what you want. I'm like, okay, I need to stop coming here. Or you need to find another Kidoba. I love being a regular with the name the food after me. He keeps getting that same thing over and over. I love it.
00:31:45
Speaker
You want one of those columns at Cheesecake Factory to be like molded in your bust. That's their problem though. Cheesecake Factory represents a very finite amount, even though it's like it's 250, it feels more like the original Pokemon and be like, there's a hundred. Okay, cool. McDonald's, I don't know how many items they have, but I've got like just three that I go through and that's it.
00:32:09
Speaker
But it's also like, depending on the game, like Casey with his fighting games, that's more like a guitar. Are you ever really done learning the guitar? Yeah, yeah. Or like a sport or like, yeah, I'm getting into running. I don't have like a goal. I'm just going to keep running every day. Like snap, snap and like Siege feel like new games every season to me because they change the meta up every new season. So you're constantly relearning, relearning the game as you play in some form.
Short Games as Movie Experiences
00:32:35
Speaker
So I don't know. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, those, I think forever games and then like the sun fallacy or sun cost fallacy of actually completing games. Two, two separate things for me. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we touched on it earlier, but there is, uh, I find something really nice about a game, like a single center, a game that it can, I can complete. I could sit down and I could play and I could see it's ending.
00:32:58
Speaker
that exact sitting and that's something like you know Journey or Spec Ops or a short hike or Firewatch or even the Silent Hill thing that released last week the short message is like a 90 minute two hour game and you just you see it to the ending and I know there's something nice about just again maybe that comes from because I'm a
00:33:17
Speaker
You know, I go to the movie theaters every week to see something. It reminds me of that. It reminds me of sitting down and being like, this is the entire experience and I can go out to dinner with someone or get drinks afterwards and I could talk about what this thing is. And it's not like, oh, I've been playing it over the course of weeks and weeks and I've already forgotten what happened in my first playthrough. Maybe that's my memory though.
00:33:35
Speaker
Um, I also, I have games that I'm not afraid to start. Don't tell anyone I was afraid to start them because I'm not afraid to start them. Uh, but games I'm weary of starting because I know I need to like set, it needs to be in the right mood. Not like a weird sex thing, like with the candles and rose petals and stuff.
00:33:52
Speaker
But, like, Alan Wake 2 is a game I haven't, like, I feel like I'm gonna love this game. I have so many things people have said. I'm like, I'm gonna love this game, but I'm like, I need to wait until the time's right. And I don't know when the time is gonna be right. And I feel the same way about Undertale, too. And I don't know why.
00:34:11
Speaker
time is right now for all the way to you because you're going to get in a big spoilerly script from Java. Oh no. Well, he was so good about not spoiling anything. It's not a wild video. Oh no. Yeah. There you go. Maybe that is the reason. Yeah. Do you guys have anything like that? Do you have any like not, uh,
00:34:31
Speaker
bucket list, but games that you're like, I'll get to this eventually, but like, I need to, the mood needs to be right. Yeah. Infinite wealth was like that for me. Yeah. When I play Yakuza Yakuza game, it's like, I have to, whatever it is, I have to sit down and complete this thing.
00:34:51
Speaker
over the next few days, or I will never finish it kind of thing is what I know of myself. And so like infinite wealth, I have, I was at like 12 hours last Thursday and over the week and now I have 35 hours and do it. I'm like, Oh, what did I do? I ended up like, Oh no. Um, so how many Tsujima do you have though? I'm not, no, I do it. How big is your Dokko Island? The only reason I did anything with Tsujima was to get my, one of my stats up so I could be the samurai job.
00:35:20
Speaker
And then I spent an extra five hours grinding to get a stupid sword. Oh, yeah. Thanks, Yakuza. You got me. But yeah, I think for me, it's not so much a mood. It's more of just, all right, I'm sitting down, I'm putting my time investment into this thing and I'm not leaving until I'm done with it.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah. Unless I have other responsibilities like taking a shower, letting the dog put on your gamer diaper. Got the Mountain Dew, got the dogs like leashed up and ready to go. I'm like, all right, it's time. Are you done with power world out of curiosity?
00:35:59
Speaker
Um, kinda. Girlfriend's gonna start it up, so I feel like I'm gonna play with her. Like, even after my 60 hours, I put in another 15 with friends who hadn't played it. And so, uh, Girlfriend's gonna play too. Probably even more, right? Uh, because it's, it's just, that's just my genre. I don't know. I could play that all the time. I always say, your genre is not the one you love. It's the one that you can still play even when you're like, oh, I'm so sick of this. And that is, for me, Roguelikes, Survival Crafters, and these new Bullet Heavens, where I'm like,
00:36:28
Speaker
I'm at 200, I don't want anymore. But as soon as you get me in front of that, as soon as I see it, just go ting, ting, ting. All right, I'm here, locked in. So like, that game though, it's funny you mention it, after she's done playing it, I probably won't touch it again until it's actually done, right? And then I'll just go for the ending and then, you know, see how I feel on that. But no, my like, I'm scared to get into it is Baldur's Gate 3.
00:36:54
Speaker
That is looming, man, because I know I'm going to have to put some time into it. And I'm afraid of if a game, if I receive a game as middling, not to say the game itself is middling, but you don't just, it's like a personality test. It's like dating. You don't get along with everybody with a nice face and they're like, oh, my friends say all great things about it. We just don't vibe that way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm afraid of just being stuck in a room together and just like, yep. So you eat food. Yup. Like.
00:37:19
Speaker
You eat food? You eat food, yeah, I eat it all the time. Three times a day. Ballersgate 3 is one of those games that's stressing me the hell out right now. Because I'm at Act 3, I'm ready to finish that game. And every time I sit down to play it, I'm like, I need so much more to do. See if it's stressful. But I love the game. I enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's just the time investment. I got all this other stuff to do. I got all these other games to catch up on.
00:37:49
Speaker
I'll find time to finish this at some point and it's just like for me it's just my gaming habits is like I just when I sit down I just got to like basically commit to it or I won't do it and that's more that's more of like a I think that's more of a personality thing I'm like just I think that's the way I am with like a lot of projects is like I need to basically like lock myself in a room and just do it and I don't even have ADHD or anything I just get sidetracked
00:38:15
Speaker
It is, I'm just, again, I'm just here for like, I want this strong emotion. So what I kind of do is I have this list of games I feel I should have played as I'm fleshing myself out to like, you know, Bioshock 2, I never played it. I feel like I should, right? So I have a few hours where I'm just like, it's my catch up time.
00:38:33
Speaker
And it'll always be the same two hours in the day and that's devoted to that whatever. But if there's a game that just comes out and I absolutely love, it's gonna be prioritized over everything else. Like right now I'm
Intimidation of Long Games
00:38:43
Speaker
feeling, I should probably try Dragon's Dogma and crack out a review for that before Dragon's Dogma 2 comes through. But I'm also looking at this list and Nightingale's coming out, Pacific Drive's coming out, Sons of the Forest is going at 1.0. Those are just gonna be- It's all like the same day or the same- They're like all the same game and the same day, yes.
00:39:03
Speaker
But I know those are just going to eat my time. Yeah. I was just thinking about like people that are subscribed to Game Pass probably actually feel like more like games media than they might realize. I have all these new games to play. I can't get to them. What am I doing? Yeah. You wake up and you're like, well, persona three's here. Maybe I should. And then there's always this looming like they might take it off at some point. And so. Yeah.
00:39:23
Speaker
Oh god yeah that too like I know I should play Persona 5 right I just feel like you gots to play the Persona 5 if you're gonna be in this space and maybe that's just a me thing I feel like you should I don't know when to get going into me with us yeah yes we won't shut the fuck up
00:39:43
Speaker
Um, yeah. Well, like with Baldur's Gate, like you said, uh, maybe you could have the final word on it. You didn't have the first word on it, but you'll have the final word. You wait till everyone is done talking about it. Give it like a year or two and then be like, all right, I'll have the final word on it. Done that game though. Like the systems are so heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the ones that are just terrifying to me. Yeah. So I'd rather not start them than, all right, I'm playing Baldur's Gate three until I hit the credits, you know?
00:40:12
Speaker
Because I feel like that's a disservice. I think people, if nothing else, sure, it's nice to be timely. It's nice to do your duty, but I feel like more than anything else, people are just curious to hear what you really enjoy, what you're really passionate about. And they can tell the difference between like, oh man, I haven't slept and it's great versus like, hey, if I finish this game, let's talk about it.
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah, I know when I'm enjoying a game because my sleep schedule has just gone back to you. At 11 o'clock, I'm tired. I'm ready to go to bed. I don't want to play a game or anything. I just want to either watch an episode of a show and then go to sleep. You could use an infinite wealth. My roommate goes to work at 3 in the morning because he works at night shift at a furniture mart.
00:41:01
Speaker
Sitting down here playing infinite wealth last time I looked at my clock It was like 11 15 all of a sudden I hear her like him in his work boots upstairs like what fucking time is it? Oh, it's 3 a.m When a nerve in my hand starts hurting
00:41:17
Speaker
If it's a big week, I'm not mad about it. I played so much, and I got a nerve in my hand that hurts. Yeah. Pink goes on the fritz. Exactly. We can jump over to Super Chats, because there's a lot of great little talking points here where we'll jump off into other conversations. So yeah, remember, everyone, get your Super Chats in there, your don't-knows. Right now, all of them are going towards our big GDC plans for March, after we filmed Adventure is Nice, season four.
00:41:45
Speaker
Folks will be out in San Francisco and will be making Yahtzee go outside and speak to video game developers and show things off. So pay money if you want to see Yahtzee forced outside of his home and into the scary wilds of San Francisco.
00:42:01
Speaker
JMate's going too. And JMate's going. There you go. And I'm going. British Invasion. You're not part of the British Invasion. None of them are part of the British Invasion. No, I'm part of the request invasion. That's the worst. That's true. What a terrible invasion. Right off the bat, Drew, thank you so much for upgrading your membership to the Green Gang and Quintuple. A with a $10 don't know. Thank you so much. OK, Eric. Didn't think you would do it. I believe that's in reference to that terrifying chimera that Eric has created, the toffee colandra. That's right. You always not going to like that.
00:42:30
Speaker
That's what you looked like when you were playing games at 3am. Yeah, there you go. Jackson Jewel with a $10 don't know. Thank you so much, Jackson. I almost always have to finish a game. Even if I'm not having fun, I want to see it get better. Most recently, Crysis Core, Final Fantasy 7. I fell in love with the last third. Have more money to finish my sentence. Thank you.
00:42:56
Speaker
I do agree. Like for me, Crisis Core is a funny one because that is a game that for me came together at the end as well. But yeah, I mean, are there games you guys can remember pushing through and then looking back on and being like, I'm glad I did because when I was, when I thought it wasn't worth it, it turns out it actually was to get to a certain point.
00:43:17
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Yeah, it was kind of like, sure at the start, middle bit was very dry, very dry. And I honestly, if it wasn't for me having to do a three or more on it, I probably wouldn't have made it all the way through. Yeah. And then I was like, yeah, this game is just amazing near the back end. It all just comes together.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah, phenomenal. I think that might be the only time. You're like, why didn't they? I don't know. I guess there's always that fear of we can't release something that's three or four hours because people will get mad. So we have to pad things out in the middle. And that's why you get middles of games that feel kind of soggy.
00:43:48
Speaker
See, it's funny because I feel like there's no way this was intentional, but I feel like the middle part was just so clean, so well made that it came off as incredibly sterile, right? It's like you're in a hospital for the middle bit of it. That's what it feels like.
00:44:03
Speaker
But then in the back end, I feel like they were either getting tired or something because the puzzles started getting a little sloppier, which let me solve them in more interesting ways than what was before it started to feel more like that little immersive sim, the Mona Lisa or Lisa Mona. I forgot what it's called. And I'm like, this is cool. And it ties back into the whole idea of entropy because it's essentially portal.
00:44:25
Speaker
But if you can solve it, if you can solve a chamber in different ways, you create more entropy. But the first bit, they're super rigid. And in the end game, they're super sloppy. And I'm like, Oh, man, I could just break this and get on this club clipping into the wall right now. I don't think I should be doing that. But it just ties into the narrative. And I was almost
00:44:43
Speaker
The way that people talk about Outer Wild, that's how Entropy Center knew the ending was for me. Interesting. Yeah. So that was the one time I'm like, okay, I'm glad I stuck through and it's kind of stays in the back of my head. But also that game was like, I don't know, five hours. Yeah. So that's a, that's not doing that for like a 50 hour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? If I'm not feeling, is it Ragnarok? I'm not, I'm not going to keep going. Just going to step away. Yeah.
00:45:11
Speaker
I'm looking back in my completed games list. Yakuza, Kiwami, that one, that one definitely for me got better in the second half. Yeah. I would also say Dev Stranding is probably the biggest example. Like the first quarter of that game is very ooh. And then you get into the groove of it and you're like, all right, I get it. I love this.
00:45:35
Speaker
But again, thank you to Okajima. Thank you for bestowing Death Stranding 2 on us. Finally, another game in the beloved Strand genre. I've watched that trailer so many times. It's disgusting how many times I've watched that Death Stranding 2 trailer. That man. That man and his goddamn baby. What about you, Marty? Any Redeemers? Any late bloomers?
00:45:58
Speaker
I'm going to be honest, uh, the first time they played persona five was a late bloomer for me. I tried to play it at launch and it didn't, it didn't do anything for me. And I was like, I don't know. Maybe again, it came out right in the afterglow of breath of the wild. And I was like, this isn't doing anything. This is tough. Like dungeon.
00:46:19
Speaker
And I just it didn't it didn't click with me and I put it down after a few palaces and then I don't know I kept hearing people talking about it, and they were like oh, but it's like a It's jrpg, but then you also like hang out with your buds. I'm like
00:46:34
Speaker
fuck would I want to hang out with my buds? I have real buds to hang out with. And then I find, I don't know, I can't even, I don't even remember what it was. Maybe it was just the right mood of finally playing it. And then you had that Danny DeVito, like I get it moment where I was like, Oh no, I get it. And then I finished it. And I'm like, I need all of it now. And then I went back and just started devouring, you know, persona four golden and the dancing games and the dungeon crawlers and the fighting games. And I was like, Oh, this is,
00:46:59
Speaker
This is an unhealthy relationship and that unhealthy relationship has blossomed into true love. So there you go. Uh, Voitek $10 don't know. Thank you so much. Voitek. I always, I used to always a hundred percent games, but AC Valhalla broke me of that. Yeah. AC AC Odyssey. If that didn't break you, Valhalla would have done that. That being said, Valhalla, Valhalla did have better.
00:47:22
Speaker
side quest. Did it though? Well, I don't know. I'm thinking back to like Odyssey, like the the philosopher side quests were actually quite funny. But yeah, I guess I thought you were going to say the velociraptor side quest. And I was like, oh, that would have made the game immediately better. But yeah, like the hella added something like between the main campaign and then all the stuff you do in Asgard and then all the like that game ended up becoming games in the service with all the expansions they did.
00:47:51
Speaker
I tried to play, there was like an Irish expansion and I tried to go back to that and I did it for a while and I dropped it. I just can't. Is Assassin's Creed the one that cures every one of their 100% completion? Odyssey was the first, like Origins, I felt like it was completable. Odyssey was ridiculous. And not only because there's so much to do but because the map is so spread out because you have to sail everywhere and the sailing in that game is not very fun.
00:48:20
Speaker
I like the idea that we're all kids who snuck cigarettes in middle school and Ubisoft found out and was like, here, smoke the entire pack. The entire pack plus like 10 more packs. I won't do it anymore. I promise. You're a chain smoker 24 seven and you will like it.
00:48:41
Speaker
That's a great ride coming this fall. Hroth87, thank you so much for the dono. I tend to like early games, so I seldom finish Civ, Total War, or Rimworld. On the other hand, the look at long games can almost keep me from restarting it. You tend to like early games, so you like the
00:49:02
Speaker
early portion of the game. You have fun in the setting things up portion of the game. It's dynamic. They're easier to divide with it. But if it starts a little slower, like Siv, and you've got to set up the pieces, they probably don't prefer those. Yeah. I kind of just get me to the meat and then introduce the sides.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yeah, one of my cardinal sins as a gamer too, because I guess we brought it up earlier, but we didn't really get into it with like after credits, right? A lot of these games now have after credits and their entire end game. The whole point of the early game is to get to the end game. Yeah. And I just I have never jogged with that. Everybody's like, you know, the end game, the end game, the end game, like I, I, I don't know.
00:49:46
Speaker
It's funny because that's like an MMO term. These life service games are just turning into MMOs. Yeah. Well, that's like, you know, it's a topic for another day probably, but like, you know, like life service stuff in particular, like I don't think life service as a concept is bad.
00:50:04
Speaker
What's bad is the execution of it and all these grind-a-thon mission designs that are no... There's nothing memorable about any mission you do in Anthem. Like, if anybody's played Anthem, there's not one memorable moment in that game. No one actually played Anthem, so... It was a game that existed, but no one actually played it. Suicide Squad is gonna be the same thing where everybody... Like, there's cutscenes... I'll remember that Penguin cutscene, because that was funny as hell.
00:50:28
Speaker
But as far as gameplay, not a single thing I'll remember from it. Going back to Uncharted, I'll remember every scripted moment in that game until as long as I live. Falling out of a plane, falling out of a train, falling out of a tree, whatever it is. And just falls a lot, doesn't it? Yeah, he does fall a lot. He does fall a lot and he slides on his ass a lot and goes, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, that was my Nolan North impression. But apparently, you know, sorry, going back to Destiny,
00:50:55
Speaker
at the endgame of that is the whole point to get to the raids and everything which are part of the endgame. It's just such an investment to get to stuff like that.
00:51:04
Speaker
Yeah, I just think it's like you consider it an investment, other people consider it the journey. It's the same thing, the amount of time you've had to put into Siege to get to where you're at now. Other people would be like, what the fuck is that guy doing? Why are you playing that game so much when there's other games that have come out?
00:51:25
Speaker
literally every discussion we have on any of these shows. It's one of those like, ultimately boils down to teach their own kind of thing, but it doesn't make for the most interesting, interesting discussions. No. Extended club mix with a $5 don't know. Thank you so much. Extended club mix. Sorry, video games, but the stories are never interesting enough to get to the end. Storyful of a game is so different than movies and books. Yeah. I don't think never. That's a, that's a hard use of the word never.
00:52:03
Speaker
Yeah, you got to get that in the E. Oh, my gosh. Don't worry about the ones after you. Those are goof endings. Somebody said there was ending M. How many endings is that game? Does it have 26 endings? What is it? Yes. Yeah, but some of them are goof ones you can get by. You can look at your inventory and you have a CPU chip in there. Yeah. If you unclip the CPU chip, the character just dies because that's their power source. Yeah, right. And you end ending there. So the A through E endings, though, are they actually playing the game through endings?
00:52:18
Speaker
Because I think there are some games where the stories are absolutely worth getting to the end.
00:52:33
Speaker
I think it's playing games with great stories. I think the last of us is worth playing for its story. I think a lot of RPGs are and then a lot of indie games are worth playing for their story. I think the last of us is worth playing for its story whereas I'm here like, I'll wait for the show. Understandable. The show is probably a better rendition of the story than the first game was in my opinion.
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's kind of just how you want to experience your stories, I think, you know, I mean, I like the gameplay of Last of Us, I think. Yeah, if I'm done with it, I'll just like, all right, I'm enough for that Wikipedia plot. Neat. Sure. So I can, I can definitely feel that. But yeah, like you said, some people want to feel, play a tangible ending to this story.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I just played the Spec Ops line yesterday in that game. Like that's a, that's as good of an anti-war story as, as we've had in anything over the past 15 years. So it's good. I will, I will, I will say though, like by and large, a lot of video game stories, incredibly forgettable. At least their endings. I would like it when they end on a high.
00:53:45
Speaker
like Far Cry 3 I went through and the ending compared to I guess it would be the second act where you end up killing Voz and I'm like that's it, that's the thing I was most invested in but you're telling me there's still more? Like why am I still here? I just could have ended right there. Like last campaign that I feel ended on just like that was Modern Warfare 3, the old one where Captain Price just chokes him out and that's it, has a cigarette, boom, we're done.
00:54:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think stories were better when the, especially in the AAA space, just when the games were shorter, didn't have to plot everything out.
00:54:22
Speaker
or pad to pad everything out, just, I don't know. Every story I remember from a big AAA game is relatively short, maybe aside from some of the longer ones, like Ghost of Tsushima's story I remember, because that was a great, great story through and through. But Horizon Zero Dawn, I remember the big, I remember the big story beat. I don't remember how I got there. Ghost of Tsushima, I remember beat for beat, what happened in that game. It's funny, I really enjoyed Ghost of Tsushima. I cannot tell you a single thing about what its story was about.
00:54:51
Speaker
I do not remember anything from the story. I really liked it the entirety of my playthrough though. So I just remember like hanging out in hot tubs.
00:55:00
Speaker
just lounging, lounging naked in the middle of the woods. It was good. Even Jason, Jason 01 says, OG, Modern Warfare 2, Modern Warfare 3 is such good to actually movie endings. Yeah, those they're called Call of Duty games had great stories to them too. Like Modern Warfare 2, Modern Warfare 1 through 3, I think are all very memorable. But I couldn't tell you a damn thing that's going on in the new Modern Warfare games. Those stories are terrible. They're not great.
00:55:24
Speaker
Dr. Theo, thank you so much for the $5 donor. I'm always bad when it comes to finishing games to the point where my New Year's resolution is to beat Persona 5 in 2024. What a resolution it is. I believe in you.
00:55:38
Speaker
Also make sure you're playing Royal. And also make sure you look up a non-spoiler guide to how to unlock the third semester, because you haven't truly beaten it unless you've played all three semesters. Why would you do this? I don't know. Maybe like another pandemic comes around and I'll play Persona 5 like I did with One Piece. It was during the pandemic that I got to catch up on One Piece. You heard it, guys. If you want Frost to play, you better start coughing. Coughing in public. Licking everything. Next time you're on a train, just start licking everything.
00:56:07
Speaker
uh foxd with a $5 don't know thank you so much fox i love games that are either quote session games like truck sim delivery or games where the engagement is endless across years like the sims 4 and skylines yeah those almost feel like different those like feel like
00:56:21
Speaker
kind of never ending games. Yeah, they feel like less like I don't want to say like a work of art because that's not that's a shitty way to put it. But they feel like if you're a fan of like, I don't know, a sport, or if you have a hobby, like like for us a guitar, it's like one of the things that does it is just something you do. You like cooking, there's no end to it.
00:56:39
Speaker
You just like cooking, like playing guitar, like watching baseball. But yeah, I feel like most people I think have one or two of those forever games in their back pocket that they kind of go to as like a well comfort food game.
00:57:00
Speaker
Wesley Thomas, Five Canadian Dollars, thank you so much. I'll sometimes stop playing before the end deliberately so I don't have to finish. Other games I entirely finish, some I quit midway through.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah. I wonder if you, so you, you stop deliberately so you don't have to finish. Like, is that like, uh, you don't want to like say goodbye to those characters or. I was going to say it a different context. That would make somebody very unhappy. Uh, is that a hubba hubba hubba hubba? Oh my God. I've never done that with a game. I'm not going to finish my games. I did that with the house of cards after season.
00:57:34
Speaker
One, I think, or two, as soon as he becomes president and I saw there were more seasons, I was like, no, this is as far as this goes. Train stops here. This is probably a good move on your part, honestly. I don't know. I don't know.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, I've never not finished the game because I was enjo- because I was enjoying it. Right before the end, yeah. That's as much- that's as much sunk cost fallacy as I'll have of like, I've got this far, it's just right there. Yeah, there's like people getting anxiety though when you get to, uh, it's like a show you've been watching for a decade and it's finally- finally going off the air and you're like, man, this is the last- last new adventure I'm gonna have with these characters. I feel like there was like a
00:58:16
Speaker
I think a single month back in 2019 when Avengers Endgame and the Game of Thrones finale. And like those were big like, obviously neither of those are done done because we have House of the Dragon and 10,000 more hours of MCU stuff. But like, it felt like the closing of a chapter on two long form stories that had been with us for the better, you know, the better part of a decade apiece. And so I have, I have
00:58:43
Speaker
Never thought of it that way. And I'm more worried about being spoiled. Oh, yeah, it's funny. I'm not, probably don't really do too much for me. If a spoiler can ruin, if a spoiler can ruin a thing, that thing was built on shoddy foundation, in my opinion. There you go. I don't know. I feel like if you got spoiled out of like certain character to have something like Breaking Bad, it would take away the complete shock of the moment.
00:59:10
Speaker
Let's see, you say that, but like... Better, I almost said Breaking Saul. Better call Saul. You know Nacho's gonna die. Like some of them, you know they're destined to die, right? Well yeah, it's a prequel though. Breaking Bad wasn't a prequel to anything. I had no idea what was coming in that show. Yeah, but again, if he doesn't hold up on a rewatch...
00:59:32
Speaker
Yeah. So you say red wedding, but there's people who've read the books. Well, I know that, but I mean, like for me, I didn't, I didn't start on Game of Thrones until season three. Right. And I never had the red wedding spoiled for me somehow until then. And when that, when that moment hit, like, I remember, I remember like, just sitting there with my mouth, like, and I like went downstairs. My mouth was still like, the mom's like, what happened? It's like, I can't tell you got to watch the show.
01:00:01
Speaker
I rewatch shows all the time and I probably liked Game of Thrones more on a rewatch than I did the original time. Same thing with Mad Men, same thing with Lost and Leftovers. Yeah, but I'll never have that feeling of shock again seeing that for the first time. Like, oh shit.
01:00:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I guess it's rather. Yeah. Yeah. Not again. It's happening again. Spectrable with a $10 don't know. Thank you so much. Spectrable. I feel your pain, Nick. Not to plug. I try to finish every game I can at mojo plays, but folks forget that games media is kind of forced to move on regardless of completion. You don't get the time to breathe.
01:00:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's respectable. It's just one of those things. It's not a thing to complain about the job, but just by virtue of the line of work, it's kind of like you need to, at certain points, go with the flow of what the conversation is. And when the conversation is on something, you want to have an opinion on it, so you want to have played it. But then when the conversation's off it, you're like, oh, is my time better spent?
01:00:56
Speaker
like Frosted preparing for Dragon's Dogma. So I have something to say when Dragon's Dogma 2 comes out, or do I want to just go back to a game that's going to bring me joy from three years ago. So yeah, it's yeah. I mean, the cadence of releases is so crazy. Like shit. I remember when I started doing this back in, you know, like 2009, up until like 2012, like you get a big AAA game, maybe every three or four weeks.
01:01:21
Speaker
And especially like indie games back then were nothing really to write home about until Xbox Live Arcade came around. And so now you have interesting releases that are worth playing and talk about like every three days. It's crazy. There is no way to keep up. That's why you have to also like everyone needs to be willing to be like, I don't have an opinion on this. I don't have to have a take on everything. That's the freedom from that. No, that's why we have a...
01:01:49
Speaker
That's why we have a huge team at second wind so we can have opinions on everything. Yeah. I mean, but also if no one is like at a certain point, am I just going to make it? Am I going to like pretend to care about this Xbox news that's going on? Cause I don't. I'm like, if they go, if they stop making consoles, whatever, that's fine. Just fucking put it up. Just, I don't care what box I play this thing on. Just make a game. Just give me a game.
01:02:09
Speaker
The pressure's kind of gone to now that like YouTube, like content creators who only play rogues or they only play Final Fantasy games, right? Like you want a proper opinion, go ask that guy. Yeah. You don't have to get it from me. Yeah, exactly. I'm just more willing in that regards, because I feel like I'd rather have a strong opinion on any one thing than like, I played it, I played it. Because oh, so I don't end up taking it out on everyone else. Like I played it, you better ask me so many questions about this horrible game.
01:02:38
Speaker
put 40 hours into this better get my time my money's worth uh math demigod with a $5 don't know thank you so much uh how about games that have no end like mmo's and live service games if some cost fallacy keep us playing forever it's also tough when people if you've invested money and time into something if you've like been like i've spent hundreds of dollars making this character and like is it harder to be like i'm done with it because you're not only just throwing out an experience but you're throwing out like
01:03:05
Speaker
It's like cleaning out your closet and throwing away some of your clothes and stuff. Or the steam backlog, which everybody that has a gaming PC knows about. Cleaning mine out. Yeah, they will always fill back up.
01:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, but that's, I mean, that's different than like, I've put 400 hours into this thing. So I feel like I need to keep going. Steam sale, you invested $200 and 40 games that you'll never touch in every person knows what that's like. It's like, I spent all this money. Oh, I'm never going to get to these games.
Anxiety from Game Backlogs
01:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. Immediate stress like that. So that's 200 bucks that put into the bookstore or something like that. Steam has completely capitalized on the impulse buyers.
01:03:52
Speaker
And also the fear, also the fear missing out. Uh, extending club mix, one of our five dollars. Thank you so much. After 100% reviews, uh, should all be like, I liked the game until I had to spend equal to the game's length doing chores. And now I hate it. Um, yeah, I mean, that's, if you look back at a game and you're like, how much of this did I actually enjoy? And that's not like you can't use math to cut something up like that, but you're like,
01:04:17
Speaker
If I put 50 hours into a game and only joined myself for 10 hours of it, can you actually recommend something that feels that, I don't know, that bloated? Yeah, I will never, ever, ever get behind the cost per hour fallacy. I will never get behind that, because I would just feel awful about everything. Yeah, I mean, I understand if you're coming from a place where you don't have a lot of money,
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But also, if you don't have a lot of money, you're probably way more selective about the game you play. Like I'm also just like duty. Well, yeah, I've been like, you know, people that are I think a lot of people that are like super selective about their money because I have those friends call of duty, madam, the age out there, freedom, the fortnight, whatever it is. And those are the games they stick with them. And you have to do some heavy lifting to even get them to consider
01:05:05
Speaker
a single player game that they're going to spend 40 bucks on that they may or may not finish or enjoy when they can just spend $20 on your $10 on Lethal Company and they know they're going to get 10,000 hours of play time out of that thing. Jesus Christ.
01:05:19
Speaker
See, I buy horror games and I'm usually done with them at around two hours, whether I finish them or not. But that's just how it feels, I suppose. I already paid the money, there's no getting it back. I'm not gonna commit to esports and try to make thousands of dollars on a team or
Game Reviewer Criticisms
01:05:37
Speaker
whatever.
01:05:37
Speaker
Yeah. If nothing else, I think that should be an interesting talking point, like you said here. After 100% review, it's more interesting for me to hear someone go, I loved it so much, I 100%ed it than just, yeah, I 100%ed it, you know? Yeah, like that to me is great. If you're like still, if you're like, I did every single thing in this game, I had a great time. I'm like, that sounds great. Absolutely do that. That's what's bringing you joy. And it's not like I felt a compulsion to do this.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, well, and that's like people like that get on game reviewers for not completing the game. It's like they clearly didn't enjoy enough to complete it. So that should tell you their opinion on it. No. For the most part. Horth,
Escapist Viewership Surprise
01:06:16
Speaker
back on the note. Thank you so much. Talk to LTT. They root for you when you come up.
01:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's what we're referring to. Linus tuck tips. Oh, I don't know what that was. Yeah, somebody highlighted that they mentioned us on the podcast the other day, and they were pretty surprised by our numbers, because when everything went down, they were kind of talking about the numbers on the escapist and had some opinions that didn't really make sense. Well, actually, they echoed opinions that would have come from our corporate owner at the time.
01:06:43
Speaker
Thank you Linus. You're my second favorite Linus after Linus from, uh, from Peanuts. The boy who carries a blanket behind him.
Humorous Game Rewards
01:06:52
Speaker
King and commoner with a $5 don't know. Thank you so much. I nabbed 100% in Breath of the Wild and it made me almost rush through tears of the kingdom because I didn't want to do it again. And I love, I, again, the greatest troll job in, in video game history is that if you get a hundred percent of the Korok season, Breath of the Wild,
01:07:05
Speaker
your gift from Hestu is a little piece of shit. It's a little, it's like literally it's Hestu's gift and it's just a little turd and that's all you've done. You've done it. You've done the hardest thing in Zelda history. Here's a little piece of shit. That's great. That's what Nintendo truly thinks of us and I like it. Let me tell you, that's the kind of relationship I like having with Nintendo. It's like Nintendo beating you up every once in a while. Exactly.
01:07:29
Speaker
Please, sir, may I preorder my super switch now? Humane Shield with a $10 dono. Thank you so much, Humane Shield.
Endings Behind Paywalls
01:07:35
Speaker
Games that have ending lock behind paywalls or extreme grind walls. Is a company milking a fan base and most of those endings have little to no effort put in them?
01:07:45
Speaker
I feel like that's not a thing that pops up a ton anymore. I mean, recently we have the New Game Plus thing with either Deluxe Edition of Like a Dragon, Infinite Wealth to play New Game Plus, which is stupid. It's just stupid as hell in my opinion. Why don't I just start a save again? Because you don't get to like unlock, you don't get to like play with your, you know, you don't get the New Game Plus perks, I guess. Yeah, absolutely.
01:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. And also like to me, that's just like, I get starting to get greedy with their people's interests in Yakuza in the West.
DLCs in Older Games
01:08:15
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah. It's not worth the money. And I buy it every time.
01:08:23
Speaker
Uh, yeah, but they used to, I remember the endings locked behind paywall things. Like that was, there was a point in the 360 PS3 generation that that was a big, uh, Asura's Wrath famously has its last couple of chapters that were DLC. Like it was just the ending to the story. Yeah. Like real, real crap.
01:08:40
Speaker
What other, are there other examples? I don't remember a lot of games locking their endings going to paywall aside from their epilogue chapters. Yeah, epilogue chapters, which were like, quote unquote, the true endings of the game. I think that's, but one of the dead spaces did that. Yeah. Final fantasy tend to, again, a lot of there was that, there's that point in the generation, like the late aughts early teens. What can we get away from? Yeah. Games were seeing how much they could get away with. And I think luckily that's mostly been, uh,
01:09:11
Speaker
Kind of straight of the wayside. So, you know, I think it's. Shadow Mordor. Shadow Mordor tried to do that. I don't remember that either. I don't think if you finish the game, you know, I. Well, I finished the game. I just don't go ever go back to DLC campaigns. I think the only DLC campaigns I've ever like gone back to do. I know I did. I think I know what they're referring. You're referring to a dead space was the awakening or whatever from that space three. Yeah. I remember that. But yeah, I don't really go back to expansions very often. I'd like.
01:09:42
Speaker
Bethesda's expansions are usually their own self-contained things. The Witcher expansions are their own self-contained things. Yeah. There was a very, very specific time. Yeah. Yeah. Some real, some real horse hockey was just, you would say, a toad MZ with 15 Australian dollars. Thank you so much.
Death Stranding Trailer Debate
01:09:59
Speaker
Hey crew. My brother warned me not to watch the new Death Stranding trailer due to a giving too much away. One of your thoughts. Surely God Jima wouldn't tell us anything that we shouldn't know. Right. Uh, the trailer is incomprehensible.
01:10:14
Speaker
There's a couple things about BB. There's a spoiler in there for that.
01:10:23
Speaker
But I think that's about it. And even that, without context, you would have no idea what they're talking about. I think the things people don't take is spoilers are spoilers with context. There was a moment in Javed's Good Blood video on learning to love the outer wild, which we said is spoiler free. There was a moment in there and a few people complained that is a spoiler and that was only people who had completed the game.
01:10:46
Speaker
and loves the game to be able to know that the thing is important. Because if you're not, it is not that it's just an image. That's what, to me, all these images in Death Stranding 2, I'm like, some of these might be from the endgame, some of these might be spoilers. But to me, it's just a cacophony of insanity. I like the vibes of that cacophony.
01:11:06
Speaker
That drives me insane. When people do that in the comments, like this is a spoiler. It's like people that have not played the game would have no idea unless you tell them it's a spoiler.
Gaming Addiction Concerns
01:11:13
Speaker
And they won't remember either. You're spoiling it for them. It's just that righteous indignation of pop up. I'd never. I'll coach you. John Connor, thank you so much. Five Canadian dollars. Do you think people don't get into gaming because they're scared of sunken costs, even if they enjoy any gaming they have experienced?
01:11:32
Speaker
That was Nick Offerman's experience. He said he was afraid that he would just never do anything else, so he stopped gaming. Yeah, my dad did that. My dad got addicted to Halo at one point.
01:11:48
Speaker
I gave my extra disc. He played it like every night. And then he finally just one day comes into my room with a disc in hand. He's like, I had to uninstall this. You got to take this away from me. We can't do this. That was the one time I connected with him on video games. There you go.
01:12:06
Speaker
Denmark with $5 taking time away from persona. I appreciated Denmark. My friends are all into Baldur's Gate, and I'm the only one playing the silly persona game. You know what, Denmark? I'm also playing the silly persona game and not playing Baldur's Gate, so there's dozens of us. Not as many people were playing Granblue, Frantasy, Relink. I don't think I said that, Gabe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know
01:12:30
Speaker
There you go. Superb owner with a $10 donor. Thank you so much. I like Guess the Game because I can get that sense of completion satisfaction on a daily basis. Looking forward to when it finally catches up with every game ever released so I can finally roll credits. But then you know what to go do? Just choose six images from different images from a game. You just reuse it. New images. I like Guess the Game too. I wish that could be somehow... I feel like whoever makes Guess the Game deserves to be paid.
01:13:00
Speaker
Let's buy it. Let's buy it from them like New York has got wordle. Yeah, exactly. Only give you $100 for it. Oh no. Uh, witticism with
Satisfaction from Game Completion
01:13:12
Speaker
a $10 don't know. Thank you so much. Unless I really don't enjoy a game, I will languish. It will languish on my hard drive for years until I go back to finish it. There's a sense of satisfaction I get from finishing them separate from how fun they are.
01:13:23
Speaker
Which I get. Like there's a nice, you know, it's my sons for me. You all need therapy. We do that. That's one of those games. Like I enjoy it. Like, God, it doesn't get boring. Is it a generational thing? Cause I love when like we make plans and obviously I love going out with friends and stuff, but if any of them were like, Oh, rain check, I was like, Oh no. Back to bed.
01:13:49
Speaker
I'll make plans just to cancel plans because it's that cathartic. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I used to be more feeling the need. I feel like as I've gotten older, I've learned to just be like, if something's not making me happy, I can probably just excise it from my life. That's what I'm trying to do right now. That's when I became addicted to drugs. Oh. Lauren.
01:14:15
Speaker
Thank you so much. I felt compelled to play Persona 5 Royal's New Game Plus because I got the original Persona 5 ending on a first go. Second time got the Royal ending and it was super worth it. Even New Game Plus was super enjoyable with a different ending. If you're enjoying something and you roll credits and you're like, I just want to go back. I want to do that again. I want to experience that again with the knowledge I have now. I appreciate that. I'm usually not like that because I always feel like I need to jump on the next thing.
01:14:44
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. Has there ever been like a single player game? You guys finished and then we're like, let's just do it again. Let's just, I mean, you just roll through
Replayability of Single-Player Games
01:14:50
Speaker
this again. It wasn't by choice, but Lords of the Fallen. Cause Lords of the Fall wiped my save. So I lost 30 hours of progress and then put 50 hours into a second play through. You got lorded. I did. I was not sure.
01:15:06
Speaker
But then I created a better character and then I had, I was having more fun. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Restarting a game with the knowledge you have after 20, 30, 40 hours means you can usually cruise through those opening hours pretty quickly.
01:15:20
Speaker
Uh, I'll just make you do all those walking along cut scenes. That is true. That's never good. Alex Augusto with a $2 don't know. And then with another $2 don't know, thank you so much, Alex. Uh, how do you feel about attack on Titan? I still have the final, uh, two episodes that I haven't watched. It's finally over. I started that. I got like most of the way through season one. And then I just, I just stopped watching it again. Nope.
01:15:47
Speaker
too scary. I just, like I said, I'm really bad about that. Like I will start something like deers of the kingdom, get sidetracked. And then I'm like, I want to go. I want to go finish that. I want to go back. And then I'm like, oh, the time investment now I'm stressed and I don't want to do it. Yeah. Um, I, my thing with, with finishing attack on Titan is now it's been long enough to where I'm like, I feel like I need a refresher on the first 95% of it.
01:16:10
Speaker
before I go into that last 5%. And I don't think that means I'm not going to go and rewatch it all. I don't think so. Because I liked Attack on Titan. I didn't love Attack on Titan. And it's just long enough to where I'll go back and rewatch Cowboy Bebop or Neon Genesis Evangelion or Sunnyboy or Odd Taxi or Steins Gate a million times. But I don't know if I'm going to do that with Attack on Titan. But I do want to see how it ends. Hashtag Aaron Jager did everything wrong.
01:16:38
Speaker
A tsunami doucher with a $20 don't know, thank you so much. I got The Last of Us bundled with my PS4 on purchase. The game had good reviews, so I played it and hated it, but because I had gotten so far as I did, I kept going to finish it. Felt nothing for the characters or the ending.
Alternatives to Finishing Games
01:16:54
Speaker
Just imagine all the fun, delicious things you could be doing instead of forcing yourself to finish games you don't like. You could be reading books, getting laid,
01:17:05
Speaker
Getting laid while reading books. Oh my god, the big two. The big two, like Oppenheimer while reading the bug to bug Gita. Incredible. Yeah, I mean, at the very least, The Last of Us isn't super long. So like the first one isn't terribly long. They had to play it so they could tell us that in a super jet. If you got it free with a thing and if everyone, you kind of want to be like, am I crazy or is everyone else crazy? And you get to the end of it and then you're like, well, maybe we're all crazy. Yeah.
01:17:36
Speaker
Pigeonon B&M, thank you so much for the 10 pound donal. Cruelty Squad's first ending is basically, go find the other endings. And the game is so full of secrets and optional areas which made it the only game where I enjoyed hunting for secrets post-ending.
01:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's yeah, I think as long as it's tied into the gameplay mechanics like that's that's fun enough But you yeah, you want me to play a secret ending? Near and I have to go through the same type same game over and over again a game Tied the credit the credit sold me otherwise
01:18:07
Speaker
That's the thing is like, that's the weird one where like, if someone ever, to me, I'm like, everyone's opinion is valid. Except if you have a near opinion and you haven't, you have 23, because then I'm like, well, I just don't your opinion is just not valid to me. You just, I'm just going to, I'm going to mute you when it comes to the real hack for secret endings or different endings and like a mass effect RPG. Just, just save right before that final mission and then just click a different option.
01:18:32
Speaker
No. I guess MassFix is bad. MassFix is bad. So we have YouTube playthroughs now. Yeah, I got the end of the spec ops and I was like, I'll just watch the rest of the endings. And it turned out mine was the worst. Foxy454 with a $2 Dono, thank you so much. On the afraid to start subject, Pathologic 2. That is one of those games people love. And I look at it and I'm like, I don't get this.
01:18:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't get this at all. But man the people who love it like whoo We need to put that on your teachers list so people stop asking him about it that dark and that's him giving what that's given into Yeah, they're they won't they'll just not people want He's gonna play and then but remember when we played Oh Maury finally and again do it right? Oh, that's true. Yeah, and signal us. Yeah, I
01:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, you enjoy. I love this game. Well, you played it wrong. You've got to be the man. It is a power world. I had to keep doing it. Power will play through because he's like they're like, you didn't you didn't read all the menus for fixing and building things like he's streaming a game. What do you want? Like it's kind of hard. Also, before I can tell you, he's going to fucking hate it because there's just certain games where he's like, obviously he's going to hate this thing. Yeah. Andrew Shug.
01:19:49
Speaker
A new member. Five Australian dollars, thank you so much, Andrew.
Enjoyment in Game Purchasing
01:19:52
Speaker
I like buying games, but I only start maybe one out of 10 games I buy, and I complete maybe one out of 10 games I start. Worst gamer, Toffee. The last one was just Toffee. Oh, a little retail therapy, you know, it's fine. Sometimes the fun is just buying the game.
01:20:09
Speaker
Yeah. That's it. I got my, I got my fun right there. Don't have a bunch of old Dreamcast games. Bring me a little bit of joy in this dark world. I still have, I still have destiny in plastic wrap. It was more fun buying the game than actually one. Yeah. One. So that's nice. Yeah. Maybe that'll be worth some someday. I have a lot of games. I have a lot of games in plastic wrap because we were like escapists could be hit or miss about review copies.
01:20:35
Speaker
And then I was like, I like had a bunch of games on pre-order and I forgot and it just kept showing up. My door is like, oh, shit, I should probably go cancel those. Then I'd forget again. That's why you got to go digital. So no. Digi, you could just buy the day. Never. Because now now that those are in a shrink wrap and if I never open them, I'll be able to pay for my kids college with a copy of.
01:20:55
Speaker
But the mortals of aviums? You're absolutely right. Erbonym with 50s, Wouty. Thank you so much, Erbonym. I'm 40 minutes late to the party, so it may have already come up. I treat my games like my relationships. I'm OK to move on when the spark is gone, but I still stay in touch and wonder how they're doing sometimes. Incredibly adult and mature way to think about things, Erbonym.
01:21:19
Speaker
You gotta unfollow that X on Instagram. Okay, now we've gone back to creepy. Actually, games very much like stocks where it's just the money I'm putting into it just pretend it's already gone. You know, just maybe you can make some money out of it. Maybe you have a good time, but never go in thinking anyone owes you anything.
01:21:41
Speaker
Steam does add a new hide from library function. They existed before, but now you can just buy a game and hide it from your library. So if you just get the hide from buying games, you can just hide it. Why would you do that for like the hide crankers? Hide like a crank. Oh, well, yeah. Well, it's partially because people are tired of buying those hentai and porn games and having them show up in their library. Be proud! Now you can hide your purchase. Be proud of your nography.
01:22:07
Speaker
I'm not judging you. Ryan Betts. Welcome to Tip Jar Ryan and a $5 donation as well. Long form video essay recommendation of the week for USA heads. Darryl Talks Games closure in gaming video tackles the psychology of the subject. Darryl Talks Games is incredible. One of my favorite video essayists. I recommend all of his videos. He just had a great one on sort of the psychology of additional context in games. And he goes into a near replicant.
01:22:37
Speaker
and how playing through the game the first time, you think things are one thing and then you play through it a second time and you have new context and you really reframe everything you've done.
01:22:47
Speaker
It's a little bit like memento. No one game. This is for Nolan's near automata. A superb owner with a file or don't know. Thank you so much. Monty Python and the Holy Grail's best content comes after the credits. So glad I stuck around. What an amazing goof. See, I always do that in theaters too. I don't want to be the first one out unless I have to go pee pee. If I have to go pee pee, I'll be the first one out of the theater. I don't have to go pee pee. I'll just keep sitting there.
01:23:12
Speaker
I like seeing if there's any goofs or guffaws at the end. I like when people thank the state of Georgia. I think it's very nice at the end of the film.
01:23:27
Speaker
They don't all have to be violent though. I do like, I like how both our Polish contingency is like very much comparing video games to breaking up, which is great. It's just a very Polish thing to do. And then Tommy's back with another 10 as well to you. Thank you so much. Less weeb shit, more strategy games. I dare you. I don't think strategy games stream well, right? I played the universe. That was fun. I threw a boulder at you.
01:23:53
Speaker
I don't know, I feel like just a bunch of clicking and small text and waiting for things to happen. Okay, but you're completely missing the strategy of it. Is it fun to watch? It might be fun to play, but like... I don't know.
01:24:06
Speaker
It's like you've got to have games that are conducive to spoofing and goofing. There's some games that I feel like if you have to pay too much. There's good goofs and spoofs and strategy games when you get completely outflanked and you're like, oh shit, what do I do? My whole world's falling apart. If you have to pay too much attention to the game, I feel like the spoofs and goofs go away.
01:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It just feels like whenever I play those games, I'm already like zoomed in as much as possible. Like what are you guys doing in there? So I can't imagine that watching it through stream. You got flanked so hard just now, I think. The universe makes fun of you for doing that because the little people will be woohooing and then you like zoom in like the game like literally says, oh, I see you peeping on them.
01:24:51
Speaker
Oh, you peeping on the woohoos? Classic woohoo people. I'll zoom back out. And then Gildan with our final super chat of the moment with a $5 don't know. Thank you so much, Gildan.
Endless Games and Their Appeal
01:25:05
Speaker
Some games are unfinishable, like Minecraft or MMOs, and people love them for that, but I think there reaches a point where the gameplay wears out. Again, at a certain point, that becomes less about gameplay and more, you know, in Minecraft and MMOs, I feel like people use it as a hangout.
01:25:19
Speaker
Also, Minecraft has tons and tons and tons of mods that keep that game fresh for people. Modifications. A lot of mods. I've heard of this plenty of times. It is harder to give up games that constantly have patches because even if it's in a horrible time, you can go, yeah, but maybe the next patch fixes that or maybe the next one fixes that. It can take you a while before you finally actively give up on it.
01:25:45
Speaker
The person that gives media, I hate that. I hate that. But I have to keep hoping that patches will fix a game that might be enjoyable later. Because I already don't have time to go back to it. It's like when I'm thinking about the Suicide Squad right now, it's like, is this game going to get patches to include more scripted missions later? Because that's what Avengers did. It has nothing to do with me. Yeah, at a certain point, you're like, that's not on me. If you release the thing and then came back three years later to try to fix it, then
01:26:13
Speaker
I don't know. The onus is on you to convince me to come back, because I already served my time here. But then you get something like a cyberpunk or whatever that feels like it's made an entire 180. Yeah. Well, that's a that's a game that I just waited until it was done. And then I loved it. So as soon as that squad is like. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how to feel about that. I guess it might be due to listed at some point like Avengers was.
01:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean who knows where that game's gonna be in five years.
It's Okay to Stop Playing
01:26:48
Speaker
That about Epson up for us. Closing thoughts. Video games are over whenever you want. We're not your parents. We're not your fucking parents. If you want to be done playing a game, just be done.
01:27:01
Speaker
Go find your boy. No cops, there's no game cops. They're watching you. You'll end up in gamer jail. Oh no, Yuji Naka and the one guy named Bowser. Not Doug Bowser, the other Bowser. I know there are comments on those videos. It's just a way for games media to say, give their reasons for not finishing games. I know it's coming. Same comment. That's the thing though, is that- You have 20 bucks if they do.
01:27:23
Speaker
I'm sure that they will, but that's the thing. You can look on Steam and see how many people actually finish their games. It's not a lot, funny enough. Actually, it feels like people who aren't so much in the space, they have a very healthy relationship with gaming. I'm out, the happy people are not here. Anybody that talks about games online or makes money from talking about games online is in a very awful space.
01:27:48
Speaker
It's when somebody becomes your identity and you're like, that's unhealthy. It's like distinctly unhealthy to have a piece of entertainment or pop culture be tethered to your identity, whether it's sports, whether it's a movie franchise, whether it's a video game console that is deeply unhealthy. And I suggest finding other sources of enjoyment in life, like Frost, who has so many sources of enjoyment. Frost, where can folks find you? What should folks check out?
01:28:15
Speaker
Go give a look at the old cold take have a go. It's played 60 hours of power world. It's probably closer to 100 now and I think the video has only been out like a week and Then we got the old Chronicle. It's a fun time. Absolutely. But later we are going to be back to stream Was it we're gonna stream always in my little demo. Yeah, always in mind Yeah, for us. I'll be back in about 90 minutes 3 p.m. Central for
01:28:41
Speaker
for a nice little sponsor tree. Phenomenal, yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna try out some, that demo, you guys get to see that. I'm gonna try out as many as I can get my hands on in these, what, eight days? We're gonna be doing so many demos. Oh yeah. We're just gonna throw up on people. Nick, speaking of throwing up on people, what do you got going on?
01:28:58
Speaker
I have got my next script approved from Marty the man over here. So I'll be working on that this week and hopefully have it ready to go this weekend. We are going with, I am going with the name Unpacked. I don't remember who suggested it, but I will go check it in the comments and maybe deliver you a Steam Key or something. Wasn't it literally me because I titled your last video Unpacking? No, somebody like specifically in the comments mentioned Unpacked.
01:29:23
Speaker
That's a video game. And you get stinkies all the time. So let me do something nice. I had written a series of takeaways at the escapist and it was originally going to be called Unpacked, but it was right when Unpacking came out. I was like, this is going to be a monster to Google, but it's fine. Unpacking has been years now.
01:29:39
Speaker
I like them. And yeah, so we're going to go with that. It's on the the cost, the true cost of life service games. So a bit more business talk on that. And I've definitely got my next script in mind with all this Xbox news, leaking rumor, whatever the fuck's going on with Xbox. And then, yeah, just make sure to check out all of our other stuff. Like we said, with our sponsored stuff, we only want to sponsor stuff that's cool. So expect more like sponsored streams on like cool indie games that might be worth checking out.
01:30:08
Speaker
and keep an eye out for some cool D&D-related sponsors with the first episode of Adventurer's Night this Saturday. We're there, boys. We made it. We made it. We did it. And then 6 PM tonight. Yeah, 6 PM. That's right. Hidden Gems. The crew will be back playing Go Mecha Ball. Go Mecha Ball, which actually looks a lot of fun. I've been wanting to install that on my Steam deck. Yeah.
01:30:32
Speaker
So there you go. And then last couple donos coming in late. Eric, thank you so much for the dono. Can you be my parents though? Eric, we like to think of you as our dad.
01:30:40
Speaker
Eric, we call you Stream Daddy in meetings you're not in.
Suicide Squad DLC Speculation
01:30:45
Speaker
Except when you send in donos, then we want to put you in the corner. Oh no, Stream Daddy sent in a dono. I told you not to. Thank you, Stream Daddy. SVSGuru with five euros. Thank you so much, SVSGuru. Will suicide squad even live long enough to release that Joker at home DLC they announced pre-launch, or will it commit suicide before that? I'm sure it'll release that DLC.
01:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know that it's going anywhere. Yeah, whether it's a year or two now, from now, that is remains to be seen. And a superb owner with a $2 donut will second win to be doing a dice award stream. That is the plan. The dice awards are, I'm going to be honest, I don't know when they are. I believe they're in the back half of the month. So whenever that is, we will plan to do a live watch-a-long stream to that and see how the dice awards are compared to our good friend Jeff Keeley and the game awards.
01:31:37
Speaker
So yeah, that's it for frost for nick for eric. Thank you guys so much for watching windbreaker episode number 10 Yeah, stay tuned like for frost tonight in 90 minutes coming back with Coming back with our sponsor stream for always in mind and then later today at 6 p.m. Central the the Monday maniacs Let's go make a ball and other than that we will see you guys later
01:32:16
Speaker
you