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00:00:01
What’s the Scoop?
59 Plays2 years ago
G'day! We are once again joined by newly minted writer for Packers Central, Jacob Westendorf! We check in to see how the offseason is going so far and talk about What if scenarios with the Green Bay Packers
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Transcript
00:00:12
Speaker
Oh.
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:34
Speaker
Good day, everyone. Welcome to the Outback Packers Podcast, the podcast where two mates from all the way across the world have a yarn talking Packers football and the green and gold. I'm Nick Gregory. As always, join my co-host, Iowa Joe. Once again, welcoming on the illustrious, ever famous, ever brilliant Jacob Westendorf. Jacob, how are you? Good to be back on. It's more illustrated writer, Jacob Westendorf. Well, I don't know about illustrious or anything like that, but I appreciate the intro. This is my
00:01:03
Speaker
third or fourth time on this show. I can't remember the numbers. I don't know. I've had so much fun every time. I can tell you, this one we're recording at 10 30 central time as opposed to, I remember the first one we did it like two in the morning. And I told Joe afterwards, I was like, listen, I had a lot of fun, but I can't do that anymore. Like, unless I just stay up the whole time or something. But otherwise, I think at the time my son was probably only like three months old or something like that too. So I guess I wasn't sleeping much anyways.
00:01:33
Speaker
Anyways, it's good to be back. Yes. Thank you, Joe, for the, for the introduction.
Recording in NFL's Offseason
00:01:37
Speaker
I guess you're the, you're the first one to introduce me like that. So that's kind of a cool feeling for me at least, but yeah, it's good to be here. Even if it's a, what do we call it? The boring part of the off season? I don't know. Like it's July. So there's a light at the end of the tunnel, but it's still not there. Well, and I have to say, I was probably one of the first ones that you actually told too, wasn't I? Cause you like,
00:02:00
Speaker
DM me and go, Hey, I need this graphic, but don't tell anybody. Yeah. Oh yeah. That was a, yeah. Cause that was a,
00:02:09
Speaker
Like, Hey man, shut your mouth. Cause yeah, I don't want anybody else figuring out about what it, cause it wasn't even done yet. Like we weren't even a hundred percent sure, but I just, I thought that was funny and I am not a graphic designer by any stretch of the imagination. So it would have looked ridiculous, but I was like, Hey, Joe always said he was looking for different ways to do that. But yeah, that was a, like I said, it wasn't done yet. It was something that started in.
Jacob's Writing and Side Hustles
00:02:35
Speaker
Late April and then we got through like the offseason part through camp and everything like that I was trying to leave bill alone because during that time of year They're really busy. I even it feels like they're not and eventually I was just like hey if you still want to do this I you know, I still would like to do it now it's working and My first story will publish sometime soon
00:02:56
Speaker
Uh, I don't, I don't have an exact date yet for anything like that, but I have written some stuff. It's in the can. It's just a matter of when does it go up, but it's cool feeling. I like the ride. I like doing Packer stuff. So this just gives me, uh, another chance to do it. So it's not work. If you, if you enjoy it, I very much do love to hear it. Yeah, that's awesome. So as you mentioned, Jacob, we're in the midst of dry July.
00:03:18
Speaker
So this is kind of the period of the season where we're just like nothing's really, really happening. It's kind of like full speculation mode even before training camp. I just want to kind of take a step back from all the football activity and kind of just get an idea of what you're doing in your life in general. Are you working on any projects or just having fun? Like what's going on in the life of Jacob?
00:03:42
Speaker
I remember there was an R2C2 podcast I listened to, which for those who don't, it's called Ryan, it's Ryan Ruko and CeCe Sabathia. And they had Austin Romine on an episode once. And Ruko asks, Austin Romine, what are you doing with your life? And CeCe starts laughing and says, he's got three kids. He's watching F and Baby Shark.
00:04:01
Speaker
I do a lot of that. I got, you know, I got a three year old and she's turning 15 by the end of September, it feels like. And then my son is nine months old and he can crawl and damn near walk now. So I'm chasing him around. It feels like a vast majority of the time. So the dead period, if you will, for me, just kind of ends up getting eaten up by them. But that's a lot of fun. I enjoy doing that when I'm not doing that baseball season around here is busy for me. My side hustle, I umpire baseball games. So I've done,
00:04:32
Speaker
Between father's day weekend and the following weekend, I think I umpired 32 games between those. It was a lot in my body at the end of it was like, I can't.
00:04:42
Speaker
I can't do that anymore. It was a lot of fun. I enjoy it for the most part. The way I describe that job is I enjoy it 90% of the time. The problem is the 10% of the time that I hate the job, I never want to do it again. Those days are tough and rough.
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's really it. My kids and just trying to stack some money away and because football season gets pretty expensive for me traveling to Green Bay and buying merchandise and hopefully getting ready for buying Super Bowl champions gear and stuff.
Packers Fandom and Super Bowl Memories
00:05:19
Speaker
I think, I don't know how much money you guys spent when the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010, but I guarantee you mine is over a thousand bucks. Mine's not close to that. I'm very frugal on a lot of the stuff that I get.
00:05:32
Speaker
I think good for you, but damn, I was 19 when they won. So I was just like, yeah, you know, well, to be fair, the strip club just throwing out money.
00:05:43
Speaker
Well, to be fair, the Sunday that they won the following week, I had just kind of, it was kind of a weird thing where we mutually agreed to separate from work. So I had just kind of technically lost my job. So I wasn't going to be spending a ton of money at that point. Well, yeah, I was the ripe age of 10.
00:06:10
Speaker
when they won. Actually, no, nine. I was nine years old when they won. Thank you. But I will say, in 2021, the injury bug season, I was convinced they were going to the Super Bowl, especially once. I was like, merciless, came back in the playoffs, and it was so promising. And I was ready to, because I had just started a new job.
00:06:33
Speaker
chefing in the south side of Melbourne. And yeah, I told my boss, I'm like, I know I just started, but if the packers go to the Super Bowl, I'm just going to blow my life savings on tickets and live it up like the weekend. But didn't happen. So I still got money. Luckily, I'm happy for you. But yeah, I would have preferred. I remember I was so when they won in Dallas, they were offering like Jerry was offering like for 200 bucks, you could sit outside and watch the game on a TV or something like that.
00:07:03
Speaker
And at the time I still am emotionally invested in all that good stuff, but I was very emotionally invested as a 19 year old. I had never seen them. Any of my favorite sports teams like to really know and appreciate. I had never seen any of it, not the Packers, at least I guess the Yankees had won a series the prior year, but not the Packers are my number one and always have been and always will be. I had never seen them win a championship like
00:07:29
Speaker
I mean, there's a, I don't know if it's still on the internet, but there used to be a video on the internet of me, like sobbing, crying when they won that Superbowl. Cause like, that's how emotionally invested I was in that game. And I'm like, I can't, I can't picture being okay, being in public, watching this game happen. Now, if they went back,
00:07:52
Speaker
You know, and it was not a ridiculous place to go or like Arizona or somewhere like that. That would be fun anyway. Or if, you know, this year, if they were to make a miracle run and go to Vegas, that would be kind of cool. But you know, I don't, I don't know. I wouldn't mind trying to at least be in the area. Cause even having been in Minnesota when the Eagles won the Superbowl in 2017, whatever that was.
00:08:16
Speaker
There's a lot of cool stuff to do without going to the game. The Super Bowl experience and all that stuff is pretty cool.
Media Bias and Sports Commentary
00:08:22
Speaker
And I would like to go and experience that if and when my favorite team gets back there. Because I was there working that particular year.
00:08:31
Speaker
I have an emotional investment with the Eagles, but that's not my favorite team. And I do not like to do England Patriots. So that was, that just was what it was, but it was, uh, it was fun. I would like to do something like that. Yeah. And I think that would be, that's worth the spend. You know what I mean? Even if you don't end up at the game. Yeah. I mean, I, I think the same thing Vegas would probably be a little bit easier for me. Cause I think I got some relatives out there that'd be like, all right, I just go stay with them and same, you know, and, but.
00:09:02
Speaker
Like I said, I'm frugal. I don't like to spend tons of money. Trust me. I was having a fit spending all the money I did when I was up in Green Bay a few years, a few weeks ago. How about you? What are you doing non-football?
00:09:17
Speaker
What am I technically not doing anything football? Cause I mean, we still continue to do this on a weekly basis. We're, we're still on, we're still in football. Do you just like not exist outside of the podcast? Is it just like a, like an isolation chamber and just waiting for the podcast? I just wait.
00:09:36
Speaker
No, I mean, really, you know, to give a little bit of a behind the scenes thing, you know, I like I always tell most of our guests before they come on, I let Nick run everything. You know, Nick decides the topics. Nick leads the show. Nick does all this stuff. But usually I'm the one that has to schedule any kind of guests that we have on. So most of the time that I have like free, I'm sending out DMS. Hey, when what's your schedule open? Hey,
00:10:05
Speaker
Would you like to come on? I know Jacob had it a little rough because I like 24 hours before we started recording, I text or I DM them and said, Hey, you're coming on. Which is fine. And having known both of you for as long as I have now, letting Nick be the brains behind the operation. That's probably the smart way to go. Hey, I'm all there. Why do you think I'd let it happen? Joey, I'm not taking my shirt off. All right. Seriously.
00:10:35
Speaker
That's all right. Hey, but here's some something to chew on. If you want to go by the listener counts on our episodes, Nick had one where he was by himself and I had one where I was technically soloing. Mine has more lessons. So suck it, Jacob. I mean, you know, Skip Bayless is really popular, too, but that doesn't mean
00:11:01
Speaker
Now, that's cold. I am nowhere near as Skip Bayless. Skip Bayless could offer me to be on his show tomorrow and I wouldn't do it. I would do one episode. Yeah, and get booted because I'd give him the finger. I was just going to say, we would come down to it. The lights would go on. They'd say action, cameras are rolling. I'd get up, throw everything on the ground, and walk out.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, just to give him like, here's what every single person that's sensible thinks about you. Granted, I haven't watched a program with him on it in probably well over a decade. It's the same. It was much smarter for me. I remember I used to have a rule, Zach Cruz and I put this rule together and it was if you retweeted something of Skip Bayless, it was an automatic unfollow. Like I unfollowed you out of principle.
00:11:57
Speaker
And like this was 2011, 2012. So if you think about it at that time, that's after the Packers had won the Super Bowl, but when he kind of started in on some of his Roger stuff, and that's when LeBron went to Miami and they lost obviously to Dallas that year. So he had a heyday with LeBron losing in the finals, LeBron getting to the finals, LeBron losing to Boston and being down and just all kinds of different. I feel like
00:12:22
Speaker
And this is somebody who I like LeBron James. I feel like all of the dumb stuff that gets said about LeBron is his fault. So I blame him for that too. But that's, that's beside the point. Anyways, I think that's a good rule to follow is I just block all that stuff. I don't, I haven't seen anything from like, and I, I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to, I think Bayless is like the head of that dragon, but Stephen A. Smith.
00:12:48
Speaker
Cowherd, Colin Cowherd, Nick Wright, which is unfortunate because I actually liked him on the radio, but now that he's on TV, that Emmanuel Ocho, like all these people that... Unbearable. All these people were like, and it's unfortunate.
00:13:02
Speaker
It's unfortunate too, because like one of my favorite radio hosts is Chris Russo, and they've brought him into first take now. And it's like, dude, I listen to you every day and you're so much better there than you are on TV. But apparently, you know, TV is it's an entertainment business. That's the that's the hard part. And unfortunately, I think the casual person would rather like us sitting here, we'd rather listen to like why something happened. Instead, they want to talk about
00:13:28
Speaker
Aaron Rodgers' legacy for the 10 millionth time after the Packers losing a playoff game or something like that. I don't find much value in conversations like that. My thing is always I want to learn why something happened. It's not as simple as
00:13:45
Speaker
I think there was a, like one of the couple, just interceptions and stuff, Rogers through, like you could figure out, well, it wasn't actually his fault. This is what happened. Or this was his fault. The receiver didn't run the wrong route, like nothing, or, you know, sometimes it's just the guy made a great play. This isn't the giant Alexander sack against Minnesota, the rookie or his first year of the COVID season, first game of the COVID season.
00:14:07
Speaker
when everyone was like, no, that wasn't a corner blitz. Jair just kind of made a mistake and went for it. And it worked, you know what I mean? Those are the kinds of things I like to hear. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, that's not what seems to be what television producers think people want to see and hear.
00:14:28
Speaker
It all goes back to the reality stuff. You know, the reality shows, it's the drama. People want to watch the drama and the constant bickering and the fighting. But to be honest, I probably wouldn't know who Skip Bayless was if it wasn't for the fact that I would see him pop up on Twitter all the time from somebody retweeting or stuff like that, because I fully
00:14:53
Speaker
I don't pay attention to a lot of that stuff. I'll flip on like NFL Network once in a while, or back in the day it was ESPN once in a while, but that was just mainly to catch up on highlights and like any kind of news or whatever, but I don't tend to tune into a lot of those.
00:15:13
Speaker
types of shows.
Sports Analysis and Reporting Biases
00:15:14
Speaker
I mean, I did like watching like pardon the interruption and around the horn for a little bit, but then even those kind of got out there. But I don't follow a lot of that stuff. I would rather listen to, you know, like the game on stuff. I love that, you know, the the smaller people that, you know, the smaller groups that are giving me the same stuff, but I don't have to deal with all the outside stuff to it.
00:15:42
Speaker
And it's impossible. I think one of the misconceptions that a lot of people have is like, it's impossible. I think for a national analyst to have intimate knowledge of all 32 teams, it's impossible to have that and contextualize it and everything like that. That's why when, you know, when I see who the packer, like they play the bears the first week of the season, I got a pretty decent knowledge of Chicago just living where I live. And it's the Packers main rival, but I always kind of talk to some of my friends that are fans and just be like, Hey, what's the scoop? What's the skinny? Instead of the usual.
00:16:13
Speaker
you know, basic talking points, just why is this happening the way it's happening? How's Chase Claypool doing or, you know, just things like that.
00:16:22
Speaker
it's really hard for national analysts to have that knowledge like that, which is where your beat writers and your local guys and stuff like that have a lot of value in my opinion. The lines are definitely more blurred than they ever have been in terms of fans as analysts. And I think people really like listening to fans and I think more and more. And I kind of understand it too because ultimately
00:16:49
Speaker
You're not, I don't think anybody ever wanted to become a sports writer that wasn't a sports fan. Like I don't think that just happened. You know what I mean? And if you're a sports fan, chances are you had a favorite team. Chances are you had a favorite player.
00:17:01
Speaker
And the people now who say they're not invested in the team, that's fine. I still maintain that everybody has a bias in some way, because you're a human. One of my things that I heard a beat writer say was, well, I cheer for the story. It's like, OK, so you still have a bias because you're rooting for the drama or whatever to happen. You're still rooting for something to happen. You don't have just a completely black or just
00:17:30
Speaker
non-view of something, you have something that you want to happen. Plus, I don't think it's that hard to figure out who was on Aaron Rodgers' side and who wasn't during the summer of discontent in 2020, or 2021, I guess is when that technically started. When? I don't think that was hard to figure out. And it makes sense. If Rodgers was good to those people,
00:18:00
Speaker
It makes sense if he wasn't, then it's kind of hard to see his side of the story. Like we're human. That's how it works. This is a human game. It's run and talked about. It's played by humans and it's talked about by humans. So there is no such thing. And that's one of my favorite things when somebody says like, Hey, you're not, you can't be biased if you're commentating a game.
00:18:19
Speaker
Well, I'm sorry, guys. Troy Aikman played for the Dallas Cowboys for 15 years. He's biased towards the Dallas Cowboys. It's natural. Like, I don't think he's not actually up there waving blue and silver pom-poms during the course of the game. Well, we don't know because we don't get inside the booth too often. Thankfully. But yes, when they play the Giants and it's Cowboys Giants, there's probably still a little bit of that Dallas Cowboy in him.
00:18:45
Speaker
and it's no different. James Jones goes on NFL network all the time or maybe not as much anymore, but you say all the time, oh, the Packers 13 and three. Like he predicted Aaron Rodgers winning the MVP in 2020. And all of us were kind of like, really? Like he didn't have that good of a year last year, but okay. But he did it cause he's James Jones. He's boys are there in Rogers and he was a Packer. Of course he did. Adam rank, bear fan, does bear fan crap. I don't know how he thinks they're winning 12 games, but God bless him. He put it out there.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah. How about Paul Allen, for God's sake. If he's not completely biased for, you know. And they should be. Wayne Larivi is biased towards the Packers. Like those guys, I don't know. I guess I don't know this a hundred percent, but some of those guys are paid by the team to do stuff. Like not only that,
00:19:35
Speaker
When I'm listening, if I'm a Packer fan and I'm listening to Wayne Laravy, I want him to be excited that my favorite team is doing well. Cause this is the Packers radio network. You know, I didn't tune into Wayne Laravy to hear measured analysis. I tuned in to hear Larry McCarren yelling. Yes. When they score. Now, do I think Paul Allen is a little ridiculous with him freaking out about Jair Alexander doing the gritty or screaming and shouting at the field and just being upset at other teams, being happy that they won or something like that. Sure.
00:20:06
Speaker
Do Viking fans love it? They probably do. You know, I'm not friends with too many Viking fans. I have better choices in my life that I've made, but I imagine they really like Paul Allen. Where is Epic meltdown with the far of interception? Oh, one of my favorite things ever. One of my favorite things ever. But yeah, there's always going to be some kind of bias there. Now, isn't there a, isn't Matt Schneiderman
00:20:33
Speaker
He's not a Packer or a profess Packer fan, is he? No, and he's not from around like he's right. Like, for example, Demavsky is not from Green Bay, but he's lived there for a very long time. I think he is from the area. I know Wes, for example, is from the area. Yeah, I believe Matt's from New York because I know he's a big Yankee fan. Yeah. And he went to Syracuse, obviously. So you got that, too. But yeah, and I don't mind that. I like the I kind of like the
00:21:04
Speaker
perspective that Matt provides as somebody who isn't from around here and isn't indoctrinated into the Packer way, if you will. So he kind of, you know, thinks that maybe they should do some things differently. And, and I certainly think that sometimes too. So I appreciate his perspective. You know, overall, I have my quibbles with one here or there. No, you're not going to get me to name names, but I think we're in relatively good hands with, with the Packers beat.
00:21:31
Speaker
Oh, I have no issues with them. I mean, there's one that I've kind of not had good things to say about, but I won't name names either just because of stuff. But, um, yeah.
00:21:54
Speaker
Sometimes it surprises me when people who write for teams aren't fans of those teams because I always grew up with the perception that the only way that you could get in with the team is if you
00:22:08
Speaker
If you had a connection, you know, if you were a fan or you had some kind of, so, you know, when you start learning, Oh, well, this guy didn't, you know, he didn't even grow up in the community, you know, he knows, but he's writing for the team. So it's interesting perspectives, but yeah, just to go back to your point, there's bias everywhere and there's no way you're going to get out of it. I don't care what they say.
Packers Draft Choices and What-If Scenarios
00:22:36
Speaker
Got a topic we had to go through tonight. So Nick, do you want to go? Yeah, Nick. So now that we're all caught up and warmed up. So today I just want to kind of go through a little bit of a fun thought experiment exercise. I really enjoy doing these like what ifs. We're going to go through a few scenarios of what if history was a little bit different. What would we do? What would we have done in retrospect or what would we have done at the time? And how are those
00:23:05
Speaker
changing variables going to affect what would have happened after that, the kind of ripple, the butterfly effect after these events. Yeah, I just find this to be such an interesting thought process because, you know, even like one draft pick being swap places, small things like that, or one free agent signing could really mean like a colossal difference in the whole direction of a franchise. So the one I want to start with is the one I thought was the most obvious, which is, you know, what if Jordan Love was never drafted in 2020?
00:23:35
Speaker
What if they trade up for a receiver? What if they don't trade up at all for Jordan Love and just hang around and whoever comes to them, like maybe Eka Pitman or T Higgins or, you know, there's so many different possibilities, but I mean, I'll let you guys kind of start. What do you think is the overwhelming effect of this not happening? Well, gosh.
00:23:59
Speaker
It's crazy. Cause it's, it feels like it wasn't that long ago, but it also feels like it was an eternity ago when the Packers drafted Jordan Love. And I remember sitting there in stunned silence when they picked him, you know, I knew good constant said like they would never pass on an opportunity to draft a franchise quarterback, even in the first round. But I just like they were just in the NFC time, all the talking points that have been exhausted over and over again, I really thought they would try and find somebody that was going to help them win, you know, right then and there.
00:24:29
Speaker
You mentioned T Higgins. That was somebody who didn't meet the athletic thresholds. The Packers have typically coveted at the receiver position. So I never really thought he was a guy they were going to take. I know that's a popular name tossed out there. And I think him and Devontae would have made a great one, two punch, maybe not necessarily right away that year. Like people think, but you know, I don't know as far as what the overall.
00:24:53
Speaker
take on that is Aaron Rogers said it in his appearance with Pat McAfee, where he said he wanted to go play for the jets that kind of set everything in motion. I do think the Packers thought there was a world last year.
00:25:08
Speaker
where Jordan Love never became the preferred starter in Green Bay. I do think that they thought that. And they gave him, yeah, Gudokhan's even said when they gave him that contract, they had multiple years in mind, but it didn't work out that way for a bunch of different reasons. You know, then the question is, the Packers draft Jordan Love, once the dust settles,
00:25:29
Speaker
If you're talking yourself into the pick, you got to be like, I can understand why they took a quarterback. Rogers didn't look that great at the end of 2019. They got bombed in the playoffs again. We all kind of thought that 13 and three finish was a bit of fool's gold. I mean, hell, guys, I think I picked the Packers to finish 10 and six in 2020.
00:25:49
Speaker
maybe nine and seven. I don't remember the exacts, but that's not 13 and three. And they were the best team in the NFL that year. Like they were. And that's the part that kind of stings the most about the whole thing. But how does, I mean, how does that all shake out? You know, I know, well, I, this has been reported by Rappaport and Breer and a bunch of other stuff. They tried to trade up for Justin Jefferson. Just didn't work.
00:26:13
Speaker
getting up from 30 to 21, which is where they would have had to get maybe even 20 or 19 because of the way that particular board shook out. They tried to do that. They were moving up for Brandon Ayuk. They were making calls to move up for Brandon Ayuk. And then the 49ers moved up and grabbed him. And then the Packers kind of pivoted to Jordan Love from there. I think it was kind of a, we'll take him if he's, you know, if these scenarios hit.
00:26:41
Speaker
the reporting has been, they were moving up for either a receiver or an offensive tackle. Neither one of those were available. You know, you could argue they should have just stayed at 30 and taken Higgins or, or Michael Pittman, if you really liked him, which I did Antoine Winfield was another guy. I mean, granted, I'm not trying to like justify the pick because the reality of the situation is at the time I did not approve of the pick. And even as we sit here three years later, I still don't just because
00:27:11
Speaker
I was not high on Jordan Love the Prospect. In my opinion, this was not Aaron Rodgers who was supposed to be the number one overall pick following into your lap with far of hem hawing about retirement, which Rodgers only really started doing after they picked Jordan Love and he really only started being really weird after they picked Jordan Love. This was apparently a very life-changing thing for Aaron Rodgers as well, which I understand. I am certainly not a Rodgers apologist, but that being said,
00:27:42
Speaker
I don't think that this was the correct decision at the time. Now, Jordan Love can make it the correct decision. There's only one way to do that, and he's gotta be really good. And if he's not, then we're talking about, there is a non-zero, I'm not saying this is a great chance, there is a non-zero chance that we are doing this podcast this time next year, talking about how the Packers fired Brian Gudekunst and Matt Leflore and dumped Jordan Love because he was terrible.
00:28:11
Speaker
And the jets went and played in the conference championship game. Rogers had a resurgence season. They just lost to Patrick homes and the chiefs couldn't get over that hump and green Bay is picking first. So green Bay's drafting the drafted, I guess we're doing it at this time. They drafted Caleb Williams with general manager insert name here and their new head coach that will be taking the reins. That is a possibility. It's not a likely one, but I do not at all.
00:28:41
Speaker
ascribed to this theory that is out there from some Packer fans that this is a This is a free pass type of year. No, I don't agree Yeah, Bill Huber my guy says all the time. It doesn't say division title town in Green Bay, Wisconsin It says title town. So with that in mind Do they in their heart of hearts think they're competing for a Super Bowl this year? No But if you're the worst team in the NFL
00:29:12
Speaker
everything's broken. And not only that, then every single criticism of this Jordan Love selection, because if they're the worst team in the NFL, chances are it's because Jordan Love is really bad.
00:29:22
Speaker
Like I can't see a scenario where we're like, Oh man, love was awesome. You know what? They just, they scored 35 points a game and the defense just gave up 40. Like that's just not likely. If a quarterback is passable, a team wins six or seven games, you know, give it to, I mean, I'm flip, you know, I'm oversimplifying that to some degree, but
00:29:42
Speaker
I don't ascribe to that theory. And that's part of this conversation as well. It's a pivot point, very similar to the way that it was when Ted Thompson drafted Aaron Rodgers. And I can promise you this same kind of conversation we would have had in 2008, 2009,
00:30:00
Speaker
Listen, if Favre goes on and wins the Super Bowl for one of these other teams that he plays for, and Rogers is terrible, and the Packers are bad, Ted and Mike and all these guys, unceremoniously jettisoned out of town. And we blame them for ruining the greatest thing that had ever happened to the Packers to date, which was Brett Favre. And that's certainly something
00:30:20
Speaker
That can happen here, so it's a lot of things that could happen now. If it never happened, then obviously those things never happen. I think one of the questions and Nick and Joe, I'm curious on your thought on this. One of the things is what position are they in now? I don't know. If they didn't draft Jordan Love, then I'm thinking they wouldn't have, if everything else stayed the same.
00:30:42
Speaker
I don't think they would have drafted a quarterback when they did, or if they hadn't drafted love, maybe they draft Jalen hurts in the second round and, and he's the backup now turning into the starter as they move on from Aaron Rogers. I don't, maybe they haven't moved on from Rogers at all. But one of the popular theories is Jordan love selection lit a fire under Aaron Rogers. And he won those back to back league MVPs because of that. I'm curious.
00:31:06
Speaker
I don't think it's zero. Aaron Rodgers scoring is one of the greatest players in the history of the NFL. But I also think that's not giving enough credit to the fact that he's also on his own, one of the greatest players we've ever seen.
00:31:22
Speaker
But I'm curious what you guys think as far as did that reinvigorate him and maybe that's something that will follow him to New York now as there's a new slight, if you will, towards the Packers think he's done or they don't want him around anymore. So he could certainly use that as motivation. Just what do you guys think on that? Well, I know what Nick's answer is going to be because Nick has been riding the love train forever. So I'm pretty certain I know what Nick's answer is going to be on that.
00:31:51
Speaker
Mine is, I think it did a little bit. I'm not going to say it was a 100%, you know, they drafted Jordan Love and Rogers, you know, was pissed off and went on to back to back MVPs and whatever. But I think it helped.
00:32:16
Speaker
I think there was a ton of motivation there for him anyway. You know, 2019, yeah, whatever, but he still didn't look great. Like you said, and you've got the media saying, well, is he washed? Is he washed? Is he washed? And then add on top of that the Packers drafting love, and then add on top of that everything else that went on.
00:32:43
Speaker
I think it was just a combination of it and the Jordan Love Pick was just the icing on the cake or the cherry on the sundae or whatever analogy you want to use for it. But that's my opinion of it. I was never really happy with the Love Pick and it wasn't because
00:33:05
Speaker
I knew they were going to do it eventually. They always have this history. The recent history that we have is when your quarterback starts aging, we're going to draft somebody. If we keep them, we keep them. If we don't, you know, we'll get whatever we can out of them. But, you know, we saw it with Favre or Rogers getting drafted. You know, it just that.
00:33:34
Speaker
seemed to be the way they were leaning. I wasn't too happy with the love pick because like you said, Jacob, I wasn't the highest on him as a prospect. There was just too much guesswork with him. I know there was stuff saying that he could be a potential number one over pick overall pick, but I also saw a lot of stuff that said he could fall to the third or fourth round. There was just too much.
00:34:02
Speaker
guesswork with him to know what he was actually going to be. But just to answer your question, I would say that no, it wasn't the
00:34:14
Speaker
purely sole reason for Rogers' resurgence, but I do think it was like the topper, the final straw or whatever. I mean, I can come up with more of these if you really want. Yeah, definitely. Less analogies for me, less words for you in general. Less thinking in general, probably a good thing.
00:34:37
Speaker
Nick, please add some brains to this operation, please. Yeah, I mean, look, I think, in my opinion, I think that those MVPs are more of an indication of the floor than they are of Rogers necessarily. Not to take away from the fact that Rogers is obviously, like you said, Jacob, amazing talent, an all-timer. I just think that's more about kind of what he did to implement his offense and kind of everyone getting comfortable as a whole.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's like it would be disingenuous to say that like love was the only reason why he got those MVPs. But, you know, I think we've kind of seen at this point that obviously did affect him like a lot mentally. And, you know, it did light a fire on the results to kind of like assert himself. Yeah, like I don't think, you know, I don't think anyone, if they were being honest, really believe that love had had ever had a chance of unseating him or really threatening his job.
00:35:32
Speaker
So I would never use that as like a talking point, but you know, just the kind of the idea that the organization didn't believe in him anymore definitely obviously hurt his feelings and that's totally fair.
00:35:44
Speaker
And yeah, I think I would have a tough time, it wouldn't matter what Rogers says, I would have a tough time believing that didn't make a really big impact in the way that he played and approached the off season that year. Well, he's talked about it. I mean, his first line or one of his first lines to McPhee and everything he's always said about Jordan. Like he refers to him as my replacement. They drafted my replacement. That is what he
00:36:09
Speaker
I mean, and I don't think he's, I think he's done well with Jordan love. Jordan has talked about glowingly about his time with Rogers, which vastly different than what we got from stories with Rogers and far, right? Like far was had some vitriol towards Rogers and you know, he and Rogers didn't hit it off right off the bat or anything like that. So I, you know, I don't think Rogers went out of his way to sabotage love or anything like that. That being said,
00:36:35
Speaker
You know, I think it's, I understand in my own job, if they hire somebody that theoretically threatens my standing or anything like that, if you will, maybe it doesn't hurt my feelings to the way that it has with Rogers because clearly it did. Like his, I am of the belief a hundred percent too, that his fractured relationship with Brian Goudekunst is 100% related to that. And we even heard with the way he talked to McAfee when he said he was leaving,
00:37:05
Speaker
with Matt LaFleur too. Like him and LaFleur have a good relationship, but he still, it's kind of like the Mike McCarthy thing with him taking Alex Smith instead of Rogers. He still held that, that grudge over him for taking Smith instead of him. He still held that grudge with Matt LaFleur of basically saying like,
00:37:23
Speaker
you know, the coach kind of being like, well, you know, he's with you or whatever. It's like he wanted him to, you know, they're not signing off on that pick up. The coach says, no, I think he sucks. I mean, maybe they do, but Roger certainly wouldn't think that way. Like I understand it. I just think that at some point I don't know. I don't think there's anything the Packers could have done to fully repair that relationship with him since they drafted him because
00:37:50
Speaker
They begged him to come back. They gave him Randall Cobb like he wanted after that first year, right? And then.
00:37:57
Speaker
They spent all that time. They've pushed a boatload of salary cap money into the future. They've kept a team together. They kept all of his guys together. And then, you know, last year he didn't have the greatest year. Devontae didn't want to come back and he, you know, whatever that, that might be a whole separate talking point, but they bring all those guys back and then they don't have the season they want. And the only path forward, you know, one of the other problems with the Packers and Rodgers can say all he wants about him caring about the way they treat veterans out the door or whatever. This really has.
00:38:26
Speaker
It's mostly to do with him and the small part that isn't has to do with his, like his friends, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, down the line. And I get it. It's a cold business. That's just kind of the way that it works. But the only way for this Packers team to get better after 2022 was, Hey, Al Lazard's not coming back. You know, Randall Cobb's not coming back. Bob Tunyon, maybe Mercedes, like if they kept Rogers, they probably would have kept some of those guys.
00:38:54
Speaker
The only path forward I saw for this team, if Rodgers was going to be back was the only way for them to get better was for his buddies to not be around anymore. And he said, again, in another interview that he wants those guys in his locker room and on his team and all that stuff. And the Jets have basically done all of that for him.
00:39:15
Speaker
We'll see if it works, but ultimately, you know, like I said, I think the, they drafted my replacement is where this whole thing stopped. And at some point the Packers did, in my opinion, everything they could to try and repair that with him. They gave him a record setting contract extension last year with, if he had just, if they, if the Packers finished 11 and six and losing the playoffs last year, Rogers is back. I am pretty convinced of that. And,
00:39:45
Speaker
Jordan Love never becomes the team's starting quarterback. The Packers were willing to do that. Rodgers apparently never felt secure enough to do that, which is odd to me. But as Mark Murphy once quoted the late Ted Thompson, he's a complicated fellow. So I will say this. I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I loved Aaron Rodgers. He was awesome. One of my favorite players that I've ever seen. He's the best Packer I have ever seen play.
00:40:15
Speaker
That being said, it is a little bit of just like a weight lifted off the shoulders kind of thing to not have to wait on his, just what stupid thing is he gonna say today? Or what's gonna, what passive aggressive comment is he gonna make to the media today? You know, just whatever when it comes to stuff. And granted, I promise you, if Jordan Love sucks, I will be longing for those things. Because trust me, I can deal with,
00:40:41
Speaker
Like I can deal with Rogers lying to the media about being vaccinated and the crap storm that follows that if he's playing at an MVP level. Or I can handle him talking about taking hallucinogens and all that stuff if he's playing like an MVP. As long as he's not doing anything illegal and awful, then I can handle annoying if he's playing like an MVP. If he's playing like last year, then it's not worth it anymore.
00:41:08
Speaker
But yeah, it's a weight lifted off. That's kind of the point I was getting at to ask you guys. It feels like a weight lifted off for me to just be like, okay, maybe Jordan Love will just play and then do his media session and that'll be it. And then we'll watch the game the next week and see how that goes too.
00:41:28
Speaker
I'd always been a Rodgers fan. I know I don't have receipts on it or anything, but I was one of the few that I could, that I knew that was happy when he was drafted.
00:41:40
Speaker
just because of something that you said earlier, Jacob, that, you know, we were starting to get the far of waffling back and forth, you know, oh, well, you know, I want to play. Well, maybe not. You know, I think I might retire. Oh, I want to play. You know, that was starting to get old and it just it was nice to have them have a backup plan in case that he would, you know, just say, all right, well, I'm done.
00:42:08
Speaker
And, you know, he was there for the longest time was slated to be the number one overall pick that year. And to get him at pick, what was it? Twenty four when he was supposed to be the number one over, no, number one overall. That's that's nuts. You know, so. I was really happy with it, but like you just said,
00:42:37
Speaker
I got tired of it. I don't know how many times on this podcast I've said, you know, I just want the drama to be done. You know, love the guy, but let's stop the drama. Cut the drama. Let's, let's end this drama and I'm happy he's gone. Well, I'm happy it's over. I don't know if I can say I'm happy he's gone. I just can say that I'm happy it's over. Yep.
00:43:04
Speaker
I like, I always been saying for awhile, I'm excited for this coming season just because this is the first time in a long time. We don't know what's going to happen. You know, with Rogers, we were pretty sure we were going to make the playoffs every year with Rogers. We knew he was going to throw more touchdowns than interceptions with Rogers. We knew this was going to happen. We don't have that this year. We have more over.
00:43:28
Speaker
With Rogers, if he's healthy, like I mentioned earlier, that icky scenario where the worst team in the NFL, there was no scenario where three and 14, three and 13, whatever, was on the table. There was no scenario with a healthy Aaron Rodgers that they, think about it, Rodgers was healthy all of last year. They weren't very good and they still won eight games. And that's not all a credit to him, but quarterback wins isn't a stat, but if your quarterback is healthy and good,
00:43:57
Speaker
This is kind of why I'm still skeptical about Justin Fields. Cause like, if he's this alleged transcendent talent, how did they finish three and 14? But that's a separate topic for a different day. If your quarterback's really good and healthy or at least good and healthy for majority of the year, Kirk cousins was out of bed. They're eight and eight. Some variants one way or the other, they end up six and 10, but like a team quarterback by Kirk cousins for 16 games, 17 games now, isn't drafting in the top five.
00:44:25
Speaker
Most likely. I say that now in the Vikings would be one of the worst teams in football, but like fingers crossed. Yeah, that's one of those. That's one of those things with with Rogers that we had as a luxury for so long is like I remember when Favre and that team went four and 12 and that's the worst season I've ever experienced in my lifetime as a Packers fan from a record standpoint.
00:44:46
Speaker
And it was painful. They were hard to watch on a week-to-week basis. And granted, I was 14 at the time. So blissfully ignorant to all the other stupidity that comes with everything else. But that team was terrible. But it took a lot for that team to get there. And Favre was awful at that stage of his career.
00:45:10
Speaker
That was one of the broken thumb years, wasn't it? Maybe Jordan love could be like, I don't think he's that bad. I don't, even as somebody who's not as big of a fan of his as maybe some others, I don't think he's that bad, but he could be like, what if he is? Cause if he's that bad, bad quarterback, young offense. I mean,
00:45:33
Speaker
there's a scenario, again, maybe not the most likely one, but there's a scenario where the worst team in the NFL, those are scenarios that did not exist when Rogers was the court or Hall insert Hall of Famer, Kansas city will not be one of the worst teams in the NFL ever. As long as Patrick Mahomes is healthy.
00:45:48
Speaker
Cause that's what those guys do to those teams. Totally. Yeah. I think, I think the last thing I want to say before we go to the next one, if, is that I, if Jordan love doesn't get drafted in 2020, I strongly believe that we'll let us as a packer right now. Oh God in heaven. Guarantee. Probably. If everything plays out the same, gosh, cause Green Bay picked, I mean, they would have picked.
00:46:17
Speaker
13th if they still trade Rodgers to the Jets and everything like that. I wonder if they would have picked him at 13. He ended up going, what, 35th or whatever to Tennessee. Yeah. I honestly, kind of knowing what we know about Guten now, if I had two picks in the first round especially, I think he goes in 13.
00:46:38
Speaker
Yeah. If I had one pick, he might, he might trade down maybe, but, or even just like, you know, if it was like a later on, but if it's like, if he has two picks, I think he just goes for it. He did it with, with, there was an inside linebacker last year. You know what I mean? Another part of me wonders like too, though, is they don't pick love, say Roger still has to be traded. Do they trade him that draft night and draft Justin Fields, Trey Lance?
00:47:06
Speaker
Who else was in that quarter with 12, they weren't getting Trevor Lawrence, but, uh, not yet. I mean, they wouldn't have gotten, I mean, Zach Wilson, right? I mean, hopefully. Yeah. I mean, the jets probably wouldn't have, you know, who we would have gotten traded to. This is a complete hypothetical, but you know, say it was the jets, then they would have had the second overall pick.
00:47:27
Speaker
Um, chances are it would have been Denver who was like ninth, which they theoretically could have drafted Justin Fields or Mack Jones in one of those spots to do that. So I don't think they would have done that. I still think they would have groveled and tried to get him back. But maybe after the San Francisco playoff loss, they would have been more willing to deal him. And then like, Hey, we got a bunch of ammo to
00:47:50
Speaker
stink this year, go with a bridge quarterback, you know, whatever. And then next year trade up and grab whoever the next guy is, um, for the quarterback class. Cause this probably would have ended up with Tannehill or some, I mean, something to that effect, right? Like, I don't, I mean, I don't know what it is. It's a lot of different things. I think that is because I think, you know, the floor was down there, Tannehill's first year in Tennessee.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, they benched him for, they benched Mariota for Tannehill by the year. So I have a feeling the Packers somehow would have ended up with Tannehill had they not drafted love and Rogers still wanted out. Yeah, maybe for a year. But I could see Nick's point because if you go through
00:48:41
Speaker
like the athletic, like if you want to go Rask or whatever, but if you go through all that stuff, Will Levis and Jordan Love are like side by side.
00:48:54
Speaker
High upside big arm. Yeah, Lewis is the type he absolutely. Yeah, that's why if we had done this trade for that quarterback class I was talking about, I would bet you like T law would have been one, but I would bet you Green Bay liked Trey Lance in that class for sure. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Just with all the rumors that, you know, they were wanting to have him thrown in if the Packers traded Rodgers to San Francisco. That tells me that they were high on him, too.
00:49:26
Speaker
I also, ready to go to the next one, which is kind of in a similar vein. This is Jacob's question. What if love was still drafted, but the Packers win it all in 2020.
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah. So this for a while that I think had Rogers won a super bowl, whether it was 2020, 2021, 2022, he'd been done. I think that would have been his final thing. He would have, you know, cause that would have been his quote unquote fairy tale right off in the sunset. And I think had they won it, he would have said, you know,
00:50:03
Speaker
He would have given him the middle finger and said, fuck you guys, see what happens. And he would have wrote off in the sunset. And the optics would have been cool. Like that would have been the way I say this all the time. There's a reason that John Elway is as special as it is. And it's because it just doesn't happen. And you look at in our lifetime.
00:50:22
Speaker
that you can think of how many great players have played their entire career. Like even Peyton Manning had a storybook ending by winning the Super Bowl, but it wasn't with the Colts. It was different. How many, how many players played their entire career as a face of the franchise type player with one team, you know, any more, not many. There aren't many. I mean, Dirk Nowitzki.
00:50:45
Speaker
Kobe Bryant tried to find his way off the Lakers like four different times, but it never worked. So he was with one team the whole time. John Elway is the one in the NFL that comes to mind. He wins two Superbowls and then he goes home. You know, I wonder if Rogers would have, would have done that or
00:51:03
Speaker
Do the Packers try and say, Hey, we've got something real special here with Rogers and the floor. And they try and keep that whole thing together. And Roger says, Hey, I'll stay. And we could try and keep making runs at this, but this kid's got to go. And would they have, would they have acquiesced to something like that? Cause it's like, well, I mean, we just, you just won the MVP and the super bowl. Like what?
00:51:24
Speaker
what can we even argue about at this point? That's the whole point of this whole operation is to win championships. So they would have done possibly done that. I do tend to side with Joe's thought though, that I think, I remember after the bucks championship game and when he said like my future's uncertain and all, we didn't realize everything else that was going on behind the scenes and everything.
00:51:50
Speaker
I thought he was retiring, or at least that it was gonna be a very serious consideration that he could retire. And then I thought that even more after they lost to San Francisco. And last year after his last press conference, I definitely thought that it was a possibility that he would retire. But that didn't happen, obviously. But I do think if they win a championship, it's a much stronger consideration than what it would have been
00:52:21
Speaker
But if he stays and plays after they win a championship, I think they have to choose one of Roger's or love right then and there instead of kind of doing what they've done the last couple of years where they've tried to keep the present and the future at the forefront and have love in the background here, doing his thing. I think Roger's would have said, and maybe Gudokans gets more bold and is just like, hey,
00:52:45
Speaker
you know, I picked this guy and we think he can play. So let's get a ransom for you. And we have this really good roster. I can't imagine that because I've said about a thousand times that everybody can say like, Oh, they should have traded Rogers after they lost San Francisco. And I've said that before, but easy for idiot like me who sits here and job isn't on the line to be the first person to ever trade the reigning league MVP. Well,
00:53:12
Speaker
People definitely aren't trading the reigning league MVP that just won a Super Bowl, like New England. Tom Brady, they kind of let, they didn't trade him, but they basically kind of let Tom Brady go to Tampa Bay. Do you think that would have happened if they had won a Super Bowl the previous season instead of losing a first round playoff game to the Tennessee Titans? Probably not, right? So if they win, they win in 2020. I definitely think they choose between Rodgers and Love right there. And I think they choose Rodgers and,
00:53:40
Speaker
He may still be the quarterback now. He may not be. And we might be going through the Los Angeles Rams type Tampa Bay Bucks type rebuild with, you know, the aging quarterback either retiring or in the Rams case, it's just everybody moving on. Cause they don't have any draft picks or capital to do anything, but it's interesting. And it's a reality I frankly wish that we lived in because that 2020 team was so good, man. They were so good. I was so like,
00:54:10
Speaker
When they lost the championship games in 16 to Atlanta and 19 to San Francisco, I was sad, but it was just kind of like, well, yeah, we weren't better than them. I'm sorry. You could tell me a thousand times to what Green Bay was better than Tampa Bay.
00:54:23
Speaker
And they would have beaten the piss out of that chief's team because Green Bay had their pass rush altogether. And Kansas city started four guards in the center in that Superbowl. Like they just would not have been able to block the Smith brothers and Rashawn and Kenny Clark. That was the bet. That 2020 season was Kenny Clark's best season in the last three or four years. Dean Lowry had a great year that year rushing the passer. Like it was just everything lined up for them.
00:54:49
Speaker
and they choked. You know, that's one where they didn't choke against San Francisco. They didn't, they choked against Seattle. Different story. They didn't choke against Atlanta. Like they choked against Tampa Bay. They were the better team. Brady threw three picks in the second half. Like they had every opportunity and should have won. They were the better team. And this is one of those cases too. Like 2019, if they beat San Francisco by an act of God, they don't beat Patrick Palms in Kansas city two weeks later.
00:55:12
Speaker
In 2016, they get railroaded, in my opinion, by the New England Patriots. When they lose to Seattle, I know they had already beaten New England that year, but I just really have a hard time saying they would have beaten New England twice and just counting that as a second Super Bowl.
00:55:26
Speaker
I don't know if they would have won that. I am so confident they would have beaten Kansas city. And in 2021, the following year too, I think like the Packers should have went back to the Super Bowls because 2021, if they beat San Francisco, that Rams team pisses their pants every time they come to Lambeau field and that Bengals offensive line wasn't blocking Zadaria Smith, Preston Smith, Rashawn Gary, Whitney Merciless, all those guys. Are you kidding me?
00:55:48
Speaker
There's no, and the Packers had already beaten that Bengals team that year and they didn't even play that well. So I definitely think they could have won back to back titles, but that's not the reality we live in. The question you would ask was what if they had won it all that first year? Like I said, I think to wrap it full circle, the choice they made between Love and Rogers, they choose the other one. They choose Rogers. And I think they have to do it right there.
00:56:10
Speaker
Something I think is kind of interesting to go into as well is what if they win but Rogers doesn't retire. I think that love is traded basically because they have kind of have to commit to Rogers then if he wants to stay on. And then does that mean that the relationship is kind of repaired and then Rogers does kind of eventually get that storybook ending or
00:56:31
Speaker
you know, perhaps they just take a year to retool and kind of, yeah, like you said, Jacob, maybe when two in a row or maybe the team just feels so much more homogenous and kind of unified because, you know, like it is, you know, the relationship between some some of these players was a little bit kind of awkward and
00:56:48
Speaker
I have no doubt that in the locker room, everyone would have had their own little different opinion on what was happening with Rodgers. I think if the team was kind of, yeah, like I said, more homogenous, more unified. I think, you know, it's so interesting to think about kind of where they would have been now, because if Rodgers wanted to keep playing and he physically can, he would still be starting for them right now. And we'd be looking at, you know, kind of same as usual, just going into another year hoping for a Super Bowl.
00:57:15
Speaker
The only thing that I'm going to maybe disagree with is I don't think Rogers would have said get rid of love because the one thing he would have, but I think the team would have had to if he just wanted to see the role. Well, just kind of was doing that anyway. But see what the thing is is.
00:57:37
Speaker
I don't think it because rogers is always said and you gotta take what he says with the grain of salt because we know rogers likes to bid in the truth he goes the general way by you know from a certain point of view
00:57:50
Speaker
But, uh, he's never blamed love. He always blamed the front office. So instead of saying, I want love gone, I think this would, uh, jump started the goodies. Got to go. Or, you know, rust balls. That off season. Cause then that's been confirmed by Charles Robinson album or everything like that. Like one of his conditions, if you will.
00:58:15
Speaker
to come back after he lost, they lost that Tampa championship game was I'll come back if you fire Brian Guggenz, which it's still, I still remember some people saying, well, they should just do that. Yeah. No. But I think this would have really put it out there. I think this would have really made that sinner. It might've emboldened Murphy to
00:58:38
Speaker
do it, like actually do it and give it some credence. But like, like I said, he already asked for that, that same off season anyways, he just would have said, okay, fine. You know, I won you a championship. You should, Brian, I mean, granted Murphy's response should be Gudukans put together the roster. Like it's all one, whatever. But I definitely think that, like I said, Roger's relationship with Gudukans was over once.
00:59:05
Speaker
They drafted Jordan Love. I think this would have maybe given Murphy two more seconds to think about whether or not he was going to fire Gudakans to acquiesce to Rogers. But, you know, I think that he doesn't have a problem with Jordan Love, per se, has a problem with the position Jordan Love plays. Right. I mean, that just is what it is as far as that goes. But yeah, I mean, there's a long list of what ifs that could
00:59:32
Speaker
could happen if this scenario had played out. And again, I wish it had. Hard to disagree with that. I want to get into Joe's one next. This is, what if they had drafted Drew Locke in 2019 in that year, the first year of Matt LaFleur. Drew Locke in probably the second round instead of Elton Jenkins. Let's say they traded up like with like a fifth or sixth rounder just to get up there.
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah. So no, are we basically swapping out Jenkins for drew lock? How do we feel that plays out? Do we feel as though that, like that, that affects where Rogers plays even does it basically just the same what we, it was what happened, but with Jordan love and he has to get extended a year earlier or whatever. I mean, how do we feel about this? I know Rogers has said in the past about himself taking a quarterback in the first round as a statement.
01:00:28
Speaker
and he's mentioning about love trading up in the first round for a quarterback as a statement. Now, are we assuming they take him in the first round or are we assuming they take him in the second round here? Well, if you go by all the rumors, they were considering to take him in the savage spot. Okay, and I had read that they would have done it for the pick that, like the reason Denver took him is because they knew Green Bay would have at 45, which is where they took,
01:00:58
Speaker
Elton Jenkins. So no Elton number one that makes the offensive line worse, nothing against Lane Taylor or whatever, but he's just kind of a replacement level guard. He was pretty sure that season as well. Yeah. And he's an upper, you know, Jenkins is an upper level Pro Bowl type player, especially at that position now. And I think he's going to have a big year this year. If the Packers only take lock in the second round, I don't think that changes a whole lot for Rogers because like they traded
01:01:26
Speaker
They traded for Deshaun Kaiser, for example, and they had, I mean, that wasn't a significant trade. It was kind of a garbage in garbage out kind of trade, but they've traded for quarterbacks. They've, they've added guys. They were allegedly considering Kaiser, which I think that was proven true that they were considering him at 33 when they took Kevin King ultimately for that team.
01:01:48
Speaker
I don't think it changes a whole lot other than it makes the team worse because Elton Jenkins isn't on it. And we're all sitting here actually talking about how as Green Bay is cycling through Royce Newman and Jake Hanson and Sean Ryan and these guys that would have played guard instead of Elton over the last couple of years or Green Bay makes a higher investment in the offensive line.
01:02:12
Speaker
you know, in subsequent years for, you know, whether that's 2020 when they ultimately draft Jordan Love, cause they would have been looking for something else that year, obviously. Well, maybe not obviously, but in theory, they'd be looking for something different to draft that particular year. But I don't think that changes Rogers or lights, lights, the fire that we're suggesting happened with Jordan Love. I'm happy that didn't happen. Cause I, you know, I don't think drew lock is, I think drew lock has proven to not be good. I don't know if,
01:02:42
Speaker
I don't know if Jordan love is or not, but I know I feel pretty good in saying drew lock isn't. So, um, I'm thankful for that. And Elton, I mean, I'm, I'm Mr. Offensive lineman, uh, other than maybe my guy Owen Reese, but I'm the guy who was saying Green Bay should pick an offensive tackle at 13 if the right one fell there. And of course, everybody had already decided they needed to take Jackson Smith and Jigwa there and they took neither one of those things. So I took Joe's guy. So nonetheless, I'd be upset.
01:03:13
Speaker
And what college was that again, Jacob? Some also ran in the Big 10, I don't know. The Big 10 runner up in 2021, which is good for them. Anyways.
01:03:26
Speaker
I don't, I don't think it does anything for Rogers. And ultimately all it does is just get him hit more because Elton's not playing left guard. And I mean, if, if box Yari's injury still happens and all that stuff, remember Elton played left tackle for most of that. Well, not most, but quite a bit of that 2021 season when, when box Yari was out and they kind of got lucky with Yosh nine and being able to do a few things here or there. So, you know, Elton has quietly saved green Bay a couple of different ways.
01:03:56
Speaker
And it's just something I feel like even as much as Packer fans, we talk about, I just, I still feel like we kind of take it for granted how good he was for this team really since he's been here. Um, but you know, in 2020, just being like, well, this week you're playing left guard next week, you're playing right tackle. And then we're going to slide you over to left tackle to start that season. And we'll move you all around. He played center in the 2020 season too. Like that's not an easy thing to do. He's just guys like him.
01:04:24
Speaker
And to a lesser degree, Zach Tom are just so incredibly valuable just cause of the way that, you know, Elton's an awesome guard. I think post injury, he can play a passable level at tackle. Zach Tom can play as, I think he's a good tackle and can play passable at guard and maybe be a, I think he would be a really good center actually. Like those guys are just, Green Bay has done such a good job at finding those guys and not being guys that just,
01:04:53
Speaker
get in the way, you know, Don Barclay's job was to just be in the way, for example. But you just, I'm promising you guys, as much as Green Bay has been spoiled at the quarterback position, they have, it's been pretty rare. It has happened a couple of times with, you know, Byron Bell and Justin McRae and some of that later at Ted Thompson stuff, but it's been pretty rare.
01:05:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but it's been pretty rare for the most part that the offensive line has been bad. The Packers have usually been pretty sad and especially under Gudukhan swear. I mean, they've invested in that position. They, they draft, this is the first year they haven't drafted one. They drafted three guys on day three each the last couple of years. I promise you,
01:05:37
Speaker
Shouldn't say I promise you, but the Packers are probably going to have two first round picks. I would bet you just about anything. One of them is going to be an offensive tackle. I will bet almost anything on that as we sit here right now. So I keep answering the question and going on tangents off. But yeah, I think that. Rogers doesn't play pissed off and he just gets hit more because Elton's not on the team. Maybe maybe that's the catalyst for them to get Justin Jefferson 2020.
01:06:07
Speaker
If they end up being worse and then they end up being worse and then they end up drafting a little bit higher. They get JJ, you know, I mean, it's hypothetical and double hypothetical, but that would have been kind of a funny twist of history. I mean, the only reason I thought of this was because you guys kept bringing up the Jordan Love stuff and it's like, okay, well,
01:06:32
Speaker
I do remember rumors from that year that they were really high on Drew Lock and that there was a possibility that they could have took him in the Darnell Savage spot. And then he just kept falling and he just kept falling and he just kept falling. I guess my hypothetical would have been more had what if they would have took him at the Darnell Savage spot.
01:07:02
Speaker
because we know how the 2019 season really was for Rogers. So does that, if they took him in the first round at the Darnell Savage spot, does that speed up the chip on his shoulder? Does that speed up the hatred for Gudakins?
01:07:26
Speaker
or does that push him more to, all right, well, maybe I'm closer to hanging him up. Yeah. I mean, if they take him in the first round, then I think you're talking because that year their draft picks were at 12 30 and then 44, I think is when Jenkins was taken. So they traded up to 21 to get Savage. I know lock took a pre-draft visit.
01:07:53
Speaker
with green Bay that year. He was in a, he was one of those top 30 visits or whatever those things are for pre-draft. So I think that if they took, I mean, if they took lock in the first round, then yeah, all that stuff from Jordan love just starts in motion. It's just remove the
01:08:12
Speaker
remove the lines about Jordan Love and just insert Drew Lock's name in there. And then really what it is, is they draft for Sean Gary with your scenarios, for Sean Gary, then Drew Lock, then they probably still take Elton. In which case, I don't know, man, I'm still, I'm like one of the last guys hanging out of that lifeboat of Darnell Savage. I think the only bigger fan in the world right now at this point is Mike Colano, but. Yeah.
01:08:39
Speaker
I'm just awesome in 2020. There's still that thread, still that thread or not many, but about five years now. Uh, cool. Sorry about that guys. Um, so yeah, Donald Savage, we're still hanging on to the last thread, the Donald Savage. I'm with you there, Jacob.
01:08:57
Speaker
And I really liked the Darnell Savage pick. I mean, I was really happy. To be fair, I was more happy about the Savage pick than I was the Gary pick. Not that I didn't think Gary was athletic and all that, but he had like limited production in college and to take him that high kind of was mind boggling to me.
01:09:24
Speaker
I love Savage. Like that was one of my, like, I wasn't, I didn't want them to trade up and grab him in the first round, but like.
01:09:32
Speaker
They said, I remember Gudukhan said like they knew that they weren't going to get him if they stayed where they were, which was funny because everyone's like, oh, they could have just waited and got him later or something like that. And Bryant Gudukhan was basically like, okay, we know that we couldn't have to which everyone was like, okay. Because Milt Hendrickson came over from Baltimore and told them, hey, Baltimore really likes him. So if you want him, you got to take him here. That's always my, one of my favorite things about the draft is
01:10:02
Speaker
I can flame on him because it's Peter and he's my friend but Peter Bukowski says during when they they take Lucas van Ness right and Peter was one of those all in on Jackson Smith jig me I'm smiling ear to ear I love Lucas van Ness when they took him that was one of my favorite potential picks that they could have made and he was like well they could have the annoying part is he said something along lines of the annoying part is
01:10:24
Speaker
They could just get the kid from Kansas state or Will McDonald at 42 or wherever their next, their next pick was. And Will McDonald went like four picks later and then feel like the FAU from Kansas state went to Kansas city. So, and Nolan Smith went at 31 or whatever that was to the Eagles, like they just had none of the, like if Green Bay hadn't taken Van Ness, the pass rusher
01:10:52
Speaker
Class at 42 gets, gets really thin really quick, but- And I think that's why they did it. Well, and I just, Green Bay, listen, Green Bay's got a philosophy, guys. I wrote a story on Packer Report for it. I'll send you guys the link if you want to tweet it out, if you guys want to do that. But, Green Bay's got a philosophy, positional, with the exception maybe of Quay Walker, which I think like Nick alluded to earlier, they viewed as a luxury pick, but positional value, line of scrimmage, quarterback, cornerback type players in the first round,
01:11:22
Speaker
And they're every day to pick they've used for the last two or three years, I think I did has been on offensive players. Last year it was Christian Watson and Sean Ryan on day two, and they use two second round picks to get Christian Watson. This year's Jaden Reed Tucker craft and Luke Musgrave. Like again, this is why I embraced debate is ruined television, but like this whole conversation,
01:11:48
Speaker
Along how Green Bay doesn't take past catchers in the first round, to which I say BFD, they've still invested in offense, which is like the buzz phrase everyone likes to use now at the end of the season is, I would like Green Bay to pick offense in the first round. Well, then my favorite part was I would say like, okay, well, let's say they, you know, they have picked 15 at the time it would have been 15, 42 and 45.
01:12:11
Speaker
What if they take Parris Johnson, just to, I'm just throwing random names out there. I know they weren't available. Parris Johnson at 15, a pass rusher at 42, and then a receiver at 45. Is that investing in offense? And everyone was like, we'll know because this, this, and this. Like, okay, so just say what you mean. You want the Packers to pick a receiver in the first round. And that's fine if that's what you want them to do. I just,
01:12:35
Speaker
I don't know. The Packers have such a good track record of finding guys later. Pass rushers, especially, are typically found. The best ones are found in the first round where Sean Gary is an example of one of those guys, Van Ness, I think is going to be very, very good for them. This is where fantasy football and hot take culture has rotted the brain of so many people.
01:13:00
Speaker
Granted, are there cases like, you know, we just talked about earlier, would I have taken Brandon Ayuk? Well, that wasn't an option, but like, you know, a receiver in 2020? Sure. Um, otherwise there aren't too many places where I can, like none of the receivers that were available would I have taken over Eric Stokes in 2021, uh, 2022.
01:13:21
Speaker
I would have moved up for Chris Olave, but they chose not to do that. And I don't know. I mean, my thought is now if they're right on Walker and Wyatt and Watson, like Watson ceiling is higher than Olaves. So, I don't know. I just think the, this discussion, like the Packers do things so poorly by not taking that position in the first round. I just, I can't, I can't get behind that.
01:13:51
Speaker
Totally. All right, cool. Do we want to move on to our last one here before we finish up? Yeah. Awesome. So this is the one that I thought would be really interesting, is what if the packers didn't hire Matt LaFlore?
01:14:07
Speaker
and instead hired Brian Flores or Dan Campbell. Josh McDaniels was technically in consideration but also he pulled out himself so it wasn't up to the Packers anyway if they did want to pick him, which I really hope they didn't actually seriously consider that.
01:14:22
Speaker
But, you know, this changes a few things for the team, right? It's like, go on. Oh, they didn't. I know this and it's been reported since too, that like, they basically, the question for McDaniels is always, will you do what you did with Indianapolis again, kind of thing. And they kind of asked him like, something along the lines of,
01:14:45
Speaker
Would you, if Belichick retires next year, would you leave Green Bay to New England? And he kind of hesitated. And that's when they were kind of like, okay, well, we're, we're out on that. Actually, do you guys know who the runner up for, and this has been reported too. Do you guys know who the runner up was for the Matt Lafleur job or for the Packers job after Matt Lafleur? You're going to say it and it's going to make sense, but no, it was, uh,
01:15:13
Speaker
Todd Monkin, he has been at the University of Georgia over the last few years with 45-year-old Stetson Bennett doing that, but he was the runner up. First, you mentioned Brian Flores and Dan Campbell as far as taking the
Coaching Changes and Team Dynamics
01:15:28
Speaker
job over before. My first reaction to both of those guys not getting hired is thank God. I mean, I know the Lions are like,
01:15:38
Speaker
the sexy pick this year and I'll probably still pick them to win the North kind of by default. And that's mostly because I have no idea what Jordan Love is. But like, I don't know. I just think the meathead Dan Campbell thing eventually has an expiration date. I cannot picture Aaron Rodgers buying into Dan Campbell. I just don't think that would have gone well with what Green Bay wanted to do. Flores, maybe a little different. We'll see.
01:16:09
Speaker
He's the defensive coordinator this year in Minnesota. He did an okay job in Miami, but he was back channeling, trying to get to Sean Watson, undermining the starting quarterback publicly, to which I don't really like that either. So I'd be curious how that would have gone. Monkin hasn't gotten the head coaching job, but I think the question you have is if they take a defensive coach or a culture coach, then yeah, that offensive coordinator job becomes
01:16:37
Speaker
know, very important. So now in, in Detroit, it's Ben Johnson. Is he in green Bay? Um, is it Todd Monken? Did they say, Hey, because they, I think they offered him the OC job in green Bay, but he ended up going to Georgia and wanting to do things that way. Um, does Matt LaFlora get offered that offensive coordinator job? He probably doesn't take it because he's already got that job in Tennessee. Um, although he and Vrabel kind of butted heads a little bit while he was there. So maybe that doesn't work. Um, I, you know, I think that
01:17:08
Speaker
I kind of talked about the personality mesh and everything with Aaron Rodgers, with some of those other guys, but I think that Matt Lafleur has certainly, or I mean, what they've won 60, 70% of the games that they've had, you know, obviously some low moments in the post-season and everything like that, but that's kind of what happens when you win a bunch is there's going to be low moments and high moments in the playoffs. But I think that
01:17:36
Speaker
One of the things about Matt Lafleur is when he came in, he was given two objectives. Revitalize the quarterback, kind of like Mike McCarthy did with Brett Favre at the end of his career. Get the next guy ready, kind of like Mike McCarthy did with Aaron Rodgers when he got hired. And the other thing was to change the culture of a team that was mostly veteran. They had a big influx of talent, obviously with the Smith brothers and Amos and Turner and that legendary free agent class coming in that year. But he had to change that culture. And this year,
01:18:06
Speaker
I've talked to a couple of guys that have been around teams like quarterback controversies and just kind of how that works out. And a couple of friends that I have of just, they were around the Eagles when Nick Foles and Carson Wentz, Nick Foles wins the Superbowl. Carson Wentz was probably the league MVP before he got injured that year. And maybe they would have won with him, who knows?
01:18:30
Speaker
But when that happened and kind of famously now is like Al Sean Jeffrey was feeding blinds to Josina Anderson about how he was, you know, he wanted foals and he was getting busted on his burner Twitter account and saying he wanted foals and like, just kind of how that.
01:18:46
Speaker
that split can take place. And it happened oddly enough again with the Eagles back in 2005, 2006, when they had Donovan McNabb and Terrell Owens butting heads with each other. Not a quarterback controversy, but two very large personalities in that locker room. And there were McNabb guys and there were Owens guys. Fast forward years later, there were Wentz guys and there were Foles guys. I promise you right now,
01:19:09
Speaker
And I know the quotes have been out there and everything like that. And that's good. You want to hear leaders of your team like Roshan Gary and Jair Alexander and Aaron Jones talking about how we're behind this guy. We've got his back, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. There are guys in that locker room and not just David Bakhtiari that think they should have kept Rogers. Maybe they're behind everything now, but one of the floor's challenges is to try and convince this team, number one, that we're still going to win.
01:19:39
Speaker
And we're going to win a lot this year and to kind of mitigate and migrate through that little wilderness of, you know, there's 53 guys on this roster and 40 of them think that loves our guy, but these 13 think we should have gone with Rogers. How do you walk through that? Because again, you know, I mentioned Bakhtiari.
01:20:00
Speaker
That's a prominent voice in that locker room. Preston Smith is a guy who I'm not suggesting anything I don't know, but he's a guy who makes sense to me that might think that was my best one. But you've got some of these veterans on the team that have been used to playing to go to the Super Bowl. And now like, like David Bakhtiari has used the word rebuild. Now it doesn't mean the same thing. Like he's kind of explained himself since then, but
01:20:26
Speaker
He didn't like that. Doesn't mean he thinks they're going to be bad, but I think he's kind of saying like we're not. The Packers at minimum are not on the short list of Super Bowl contenders anymore. It's kind of like I mentioned earlier, even last year. It's like, well, they lost Devontae, but the Packers were still a trendy Super Bowl pick. It was well, they're just going to have Rogers kind of make things work and the defense will will be really good and they have the run game and will floor and all that stuff. And we'll just kind of run from there. I didn't happen.
01:20:54
Speaker
obviously, but that's not like, I don't think you're going to find one respected national pundit. That's not a complete Homer. Like if James Jones, I mentioned earlier, picks them to win the Superbowl, that's different. But like, I don't think you're going to find somebody say, Nope, the Packers are going to the Superbowl and they're going to win it. I don't think you'll get too many people like that.
01:21:18
Speaker
That is Lafleur's biggest challenge, maybe in his entire career, because those, like that locker room split with Wentz and Foles, that got Doug Peterson fired. Nick Foles got cut and Carson Wentz got traded. Like they just wiped out all of that and were able, they kind of got, you know, lucky's not the right word, but they're fortunate that they drafted Jalen Hurts and Harry Roseman to me is,
01:21:42
Speaker
They're the best executive in the NFL right now. And they kind of had some forward thinking on that. But if Jalen Hurts doesn't pan out, Harvey Roseman's looking for a job. That's a fine line. You got to walk. And that split in that locker room can be valid because I promise you what you can't have happen is, and this will happen, promise you. Green Bay's in a game. It's competitive. Jordan Love makes that backbreaking young quarterback mistake.
01:22:09
Speaker
And you can't have these guys over here to the side whispering like, you know, Hey man, Aaron would have won that game four. We would have won if Aaron was the quarterback or something to that kind of effect. You can't have that. LeFlore has to be able to kind of eliminate that way of thinking.
01:22:24
Speaker
from the entire locker room. And that's going to be tough because these are, there are veterans, you know, Jay Alexander, not a young, he's a young player in age, but not in NFL experience anymore. So Douglas is veteran Preston Smith, Elton Jenkins, David Bakhtiari, John Runyon, to some degree, Aaron Jones. Like there are dudes on this team that are veterans and used to competing for playing for a championship. And he has to get that buy-in on Jordan Love. And that's going to be difficult when
01:22:54
Speaker
there's gonna be a game, like there just is. He's a young quarterback that says in a slight to him that unless he's Patrick Mahomes, which asking him to do that, Mahomes won the league MVP and his first year as a starter and was on the doorstep of going to the Super Bowl. That's rare, doesn't happen often. Unless he's that, Jordan Love's gonna make a backbreaking mistake in a game that costs them the game.
01:23:19
Speaker
And maybe that'll happen multiple weeks in a row. You know, the Packers, a losing streak is easier to navigate when you have a known commodity at quarterback. Because I can promise you as the Packers, even last year when we were sitting here and going like, oh, they're foreign, whatever. Is it time to go to Jordan Love? And all of them were like, no. Like we're trying to make the playoffs. And if we have Aaron, we can make the playoffs and we can go on a run and win a championship. It's easier to do that when you have a known commodity.
01:23:46
Speaker
When you're four and eight and the quarterback is unknown and you don't really know if he can make a run or anything like that, it's easier to start thinking about warm weather and golf courses. So watching the floor navigate that, I think he's the right man for that job just based on what we've seen. He's been able to navigate one of the most hostile situations in the last 10 years as far as the quarterback, maybe wanting to be there, maybe not, not liking the general manager, just all the stuff that went in with the Roger stuff.
01:24:15
Speaker
Being able to navigate that he's done well, but I will be curious how he does this year. This is his biggest challenge and it's almost like starting completely over. Thankfully for him, he's got a bit of a track record to go with him now to where he can still tell his vets and stuff. Hey, believe in me, believe in us. We've done this together before, but I'm curious to see how he, how he handles that challenge. I think it's his biggest one. Totally. In my opinion, I don't really have opinion on the coaches because I have a hard time
01:24:43
Speaker
knowing who and what and whatever, because it seems sometimes that they pull coaches out of the weirdest spots and I don't follow all the coordinators on every team and who's ready to be the next
01:25:02
Speaker
next big head coach, Todd Monken would have been an interesting one. The only other time that I knew anything was McCarthy. When McCarthy was hired, it came down to McCarthy, Sean Payton, and Kirk Farance. And they preferred Kirk Farance, but Kirk Farance had just got a new raise at Iowa. So he went back to Iowa and then it came down to McCarthy and Payton. And then they went with McCarthy.
01:25:30
Speaker
Obviously, but other than that, you know, I don't I don't think the Packers are ever going to go with a defensive minded coach again I think they're gonna stick mainly with the offensive coaches now to say that I could be completely wrong, but I They've always had more of their successes coming from an offensive minded coach than a defensive minded coach so
01:26:01
Speaker
you know, who knows what's going to happen in the future. But I think they would have, if it wasn't the floor, it was going to be another offensive minor coach. And just off the top of my head, I can't think of who was in that coaching carousel that year. That was all offensive minded. Had it been Josh McDaniels, I wouldn't have been happy. I do not like him. I
01:26:25
Speaker
And I don't think the Packers would have succeeded with him. Do you know who else was in that carousel that was offensive minded? Yes. Dan Campbell, theoretically, but he's not really a play caller kind of guy. The other big one, who was I think probably the most terrifying option was Adam Gace.
01:26:47
Speaker
And that would have been absolute hell. Um, but yeah, I mean, like, kind of like Jacob mentioned, it was like Todd Monken, Matt LaFleur, Adam Gaess and, uh, like Jim Caldwell, who was not really super like offensive minded guy anyway, but there's, there's been interesting in a way because he had a ability, but he was always going to these teams that had no
01:27:12
Speaker
No, I mean look at where he went. He went to the Bears and he went to the Jets and there was nothing No cases no, I had nothing good to say about guys It wasn't even bad enough to help the Dolphins tank
01:27:35
Speaker
Well, I just say that would have been an interesting one just because of everything. I don't know. Again, I don't follow all the coaches everywhere. Hell, I didn't even know who LeFlore was until his name popped up as the candidate for the Packers head coach. I didn't know who Mike McCarthy was.
01:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, right. Um, no, it's funny because like, don't I put some of these guys on the list here, but the Packers haven't hired a defensive minded coach for 40 years. You know what I mean? Wasn't Ray Rhodes. What you, what you was at? 99. Oh, okay. I could be wrong, but I think Ray Rhodes is a defensive coach.
01:28:25
Speaker
But I guess like historically they've liked to, as you said, they've liked the offensive guys. And yeah, you know, you really are playing with fire when you have a defensive minded coach at like leading the ship, right? You really depending on your offensive coach to have a good reason to stick around. I mean, you know, I'm one of the people who I like what the Lions are doing, but I think so much of their success is predicated on the excellence of Ben Johnson and
01:28:52
Speaker
The only reason why I really thought that they could threaten the NFC this year is because he stuck around. If he left in this coaching cycle, it would be a totally different story. I think he's more of the driver behind that success than really anything else on that team. And I just looked it up. Yeah. Ray Rhodes is a defensive coach. He was a defensive coordinator and all that. So that was 99. But that was still what
01:29:20
Speaker
Almost, what, 25 years? Yeah. Yeah, so. And then that's one in between multiple others. Well, the only reason I know that one for sure is because I went up to my very first game at Lambo that year. So my first game at Lambo was under Ray Rhodes. Yeah.
01:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, I just think that no matter what, even with them having Aaron Rodgers, they would have never went to defensive minded coach. Now, had they went in and Rodgers was still a rookie, blah, blah, blah. I think there would have been a chance, but Rodgers established they were going to go for an offensive minded coach.
01:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, LeFlore made a lot of sense once I found out who he was. And like I said, Munkin would have been interesting. And once Jacob mentioned it, I do remember them offering Todd Munkin the offensive coordinator position. I think that was the year Joe Philbin left to go to Miami. Yeah, totally. Yeah, cool. Is there anything else that you want to talk about before you wrap up here?
01:30:31
Speaker
No. For those that are kind of wondering, Jacob had to drop off because he was getting beat and his son was starting to wake up. So we're just finishing out while he's tending to other things. So no, we didn't mute
Podcast Wrap-Up
01:30:48
Speaker
him. No, he's not being quiet. He's being kicked off.
01:30:53
Speaker
Well, guys, for now, we're still on Twitter. Who knows what's going to happen with threads or blue sky or any of that. But as always, you can find us at Twitter. Find Jacob at Jacob Westendorf, myself at Nicholas grgr, Joe at Iowa underscore Joe 86 and the podcast at Outback underscore Packers. Feel free to give it, give the pod a rating on Apple, on Spotify, on Stitcher.
01:31:19
Speaker
And on Twitter while it's still around, we'd love to see some retweets, some quote tweets, some likes, shares, all that good stuff. We'd love interacting with you guys and hearing what you have to say. Until next time, we'll see you later.