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Training for Altitude: Your Altitude Questions Answered
5.7k Plays4 months ago
The Uphill Athlete podcast is back to answer your questions on all things altitude. Director of Coaching, Chantelle Robitaille and host Alyssa answer a range of questions from altitude and Vertical Kilometer races, coming from sea level to race at altitude, and the benefits and challenges of using a hypoxic tent vs mask. They also touch on the effects of altitude on men vs women as well as considerations aging athletes should take when planning for altitude adventures. The two wrap up the conversation with a discussion on the need for individualized planning when it comes to balancing normal training and acclimatization protocols and the direction Uphill Athlete is headed in supporting athletes for their altitude training needs.
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Transcript
Introduction to Altitude Training with Chantel Robitai
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete podcast. We are here to inspire and elevate all mountain athletes. I am joined by Chantel Robitai, our director of coaching and a familiar voice. Today, we are answering your questions about altitude training. So we have collected these questions over social media, as well as a few internal questions that we are excited to answer for you today. So Chantel, thanks for being on. Thanks Alyssa, I'm happy to chat about these fun topics.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, we have quite a variety. And one thing I will say is that some of these are I guess a fair amount of these questions we have talked about in previous episodes. So we are going to name the episode that we have talked about it in detail so that you can reference those um podcast episodes for further answers and just a little bit more information. Um, but Chantel, should we start and dive right into it? Yeah, let's get into it. Okay. So
Training Focus for Vertical Kilometer (VK) Events
00:01:25
Speaker
our first question is what are the ideal strategies for training for shorter distances, like a VK that is at altitude? Well, maybe this is a simpler one to answer.
00:01:41
Speaker
For shorter distances, especially like a VK, a VK is a very different animal. It's hard, it's intense, and the goal is to just move up as quickly and as efficiently as possible. And so since people are typically moving up to a certain elevation and they're staying at each new level of elevation for a very short time, there's really not a lot you you need to worry about in terms of preparing for the altitude itself. But because a VK is so different in the nature of ah the physical demands, really, your training should you know you should think about the altitude should be the least of your concerns.
00:02:24
Speaker
The biggest things you want to think about are preparing your body to handle that kind of stress and strain, being able to work that hard for an extended period of time, and preparing yourself on as similar terrain as possible in terms of the the technicality of the terrain, the um the the steepness or the grade of the of the terrain, and also the intensity that you're going to be working at. So take those things into consideration. so Like we always talk, we often talk about right with coaching is thinking about first, what is the, what is the objective that you're working towards? What are the specific demands of that and objective? So what are you going to be asking your body to do, right? And that kind of a challenge and thinking about where you are now and how much time you have to prepare, what are the specific things you're going to need to get ready?
Anaerobic Threshold and VK Preparation
00:03:16
Speaker
So to train for something like that, you're, you should be focusing on some certainly
00:03:22
Speaker
Like with any training, you don't want to start any high intensity work before you have a good aerobic base. So let's assume that that's already been taken care of. You're going to want to spend some specific time, um, working on improving your VO two max, which, you know, it's 20% trainable. So you're not spending a hundred percent of your time training that, right? So you're spending some time that doing in that area, but for the most part, you're going to be doing, should be working on some training that is really in and around your anaerobic threshold or your lactate threshold. That's a level of effort that you can sustain for up to an hour. That's it. It's pretty hard. It feels uncomfortable. You might feel like you want to puke. That's right where you want to be because that's how you're going to feel running your VK. so Think about you know the the specifics of the training and what those demands are going to be. um
00:04:14
Speaker
Strength training is probably quite important for this as well, making sure that you our your legs are as strong and as powerful as they can be, but also efficiency of movement. So how can you be as efficient as possible moving uphill? For some people that might be finding the delineation of where do I run versus where do I power hike, um How do you take breaks? How do you modulate and manage your effort? Those are all the things that are going to be far more important than worrying about the altitude itself. You've done this kind of beast. Anything extra you would add, Alyssa? You know, I've never actually done a VK and I really want to. I might, I'm headed up to Broken Arrow and so I might do like a
00:05:02
Speaker
don't tell my coach. um I'm tempted to just like, do a mock VK. Yeah, probably not go as hard, but just be like, okay, this is I mean, I've done of course, a VK in a race, but I've never just like, yeah, go as hard as you can. um Actually, no, I used to do it in high school. Yeah, it was horrible. It's really hard. You feel like you're gonna it's the hardest thing of like, how do I go as hard as I can for 30 ish minutes. um But i Yeah, I would be, this brought up such an interesting question in my head because I don't really think of altitude that much for VKs because I feel like most of them start in a town which generally isn't super high. um And so I would be curious what the highest VK in the world is, like does it start getting up into
00:05:55
Speaker
ah you know, 11, 12, 13,000 feet. So if anyone knows the answer of what the highest VK in the world is, I would be super curious. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. Maybe we'll have to research that and come back on that. And then for those listeners who maybe are not, uh, that are not runners, uh, who are listening, uh, tuning into this podcast, I suppose we should, we should have done this first, but defining a, a VK, a VK is a, is a short,
00:06:27
Speaker
form or kind of nickname common nickname for a vertical kilometer race. So that's a mountain running race that involves gaining 1000 meters of elevation from start to finish. But the odd thing is, is that there's actually no specific distance that the race has to be. So I think the the maximum length is usually about 5k. But a lot of courses are really are definitely shorter. And a lot of them actually follow a ski root So they're usually done often done on a ski slope, like in the case of Broken Arrow, for example. And that means that the the incline is up to 60%. So they're short, they're steep, and they definitely require very specific training focused around training around your maximal effort and having strong legs and a strong core.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, I like to think of it as almost the 800 meter of the trail running world where you have to sustain the effort for a fair amount of like longer than, hey, 400 we're done. So it's long enough that it's really uncomfortable and you cannot back off at any point and you're kind of, it's The one time I would say that you're really playing that game of like, Oh, I should be running. I should be trying to running. Should I be hiking? Like that's yeah. Versus the longer races where you are probably being more into power hiking. I feel like with the VK, it's like, no, there's a strong chance that if you can run, you should be running. Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:02
Speaker
All right, we have another question, which I also actually really ties into the first question because we're talking about the length of time that you're spending in altitude.
Influences on Altitude Training Success
00:08:16
Speaker
ah But this question is, at what height and duration should one consciously consider training for altitude? I imagine this answer varies based on goals and fitness level. For example, I've gone from sea level to the top of Whitney and a brisk push and had a successful adventure. What would I need to do to make it even more successful of an adventure? Similarly, I raised a broken arrow coming from sea level. And I think I felt much more winded doing this despite it being significantly lower, but a more intense effort. Good question. And it's going to be the annoying answer. That annoying dreaded two word answer. It depends.
00:08:54
Speaker
It definitely depends on a ah lot of different factors um like who you are, what your training looks like. have you um Have you had exposure to altitude before? Have you had issues at altitude before? And also just because you've gone to altitude before and not had issues doesn't mean you're never going to have issues. It's a little bit of a new experience every time. And so it sort of depends. I think Martin did a really good job of covering this in, uh, goodness, was it, I don't know if it was part one or part two, Alyssa, you can help me with which episode, but Martin did a really good job talking about part one. Um, he did a really good job talking about thinking about like, what is your objective? Uh, what are the, what are the factors that are going to, that are going to most determine your success?
00:09:47
Speaker
And how can you prepare for those things? And also how much time do you have, um you know, realistically speaking? So I think we've probably covered this a few times when we talk about coaching and strategies, we always want to look at what is our goal? um What are we hoping to achieve, whatever that is, whether that's running or whether that's a mountaineering goal? And what are the what are the elements that are going to determine our success? There are a lot of different elements within there, right? We have our obviously our mental skills strategies are going to be important. Our nutrition and hydration are going to be important. Our training is going to be important. In some cases, it's going to be technical skills are going to be important. What kind of gear are we going to need? And then when we think about our fitness and preparing from that perspective, we also have to think about how much time do we have prepare to prepare and where are we starting from? And think then we think about
00:10:42
Speaker
What is the best way to move from point A to point B? And it's not always a simple linear process. So we really have to we really have to break that down. So in this listener's question, they say that they had gone from sea level to the top of Whitney in a brisk push and had a successful adventure. That makes a lot of sense because typically when we when our body receives a hypoxic signal, when we go to a higher altitude, and we're talking like even a moderate altitude of about 5,000 feet or 1,500 meters, our body is going to get a hypoxic signal and that's going to cause some of the early
00:11:22
Speaker
symptoms to start that we know that our body is starting to kind work on acclimatizing. So we notice maybe our heart rate's a little bit higher, breathing is a little bit higher, and that is one of the first things that we start to notice. We'll start to notice that probably within the first 24 hours. If you're doing a VK, which is really short, you're going to go to that altitude before your body even knows what's happening to it. So that's why I say you don't really have to think about that much in terms of the altitude. It's not really a factor. If you're doing a situation where you're doing like a quick push,
00:11:58
Speaker
and yourre you're coming from a lower altitude, you're going to a higher altitude in a very short amount of time. Similar kind of thing, that first sort of 24 to 48 hours, those are you're gonna have some mild changes happening in your body that you might notice, but it's not enough time that the big things are starting to happen. So for a one-day adventure, that you probably it's it's probably gonna be inconsequential, not much you have to worry about. um Even for going to a race, Sometimes people will say, what's the ideal period of time to go before a race? Really, honestly, a race like Leadville that's pretty much all takes place over 10,000 feet, um you know that that's going to be a significant impact on your body. So two good options are there you arrive two weeks before and give your body some time. It's not going to fully be adapted, but it's going to be
00:12:57
Speaker
you're going to be over the worst symptoms, which happen early on, or you arrive just one to two days before and you do the race then. Because really, true adaptation to altitude takes four to six weeks of continual exposure. um And so you know if you're going like a week before, you're going to experience some changes, it's going to be still kind of challenging. um But two weeks is going to be certainly better. More time is going to be a little bit better. And if you don't have the luxury of time, maybe a little less time is actually going to be better for you. And overall, your fitness matters a lot in these types of races. So, you know the yes, the altitude is going to slow you down.
00:13:45
Speaker
yes, it's going to have an impact, a little bit of an impact on your performance. But if we think about the fact that um it does have an impact on our performance, the more fit you are, the that means the you know you're going to have a decrement in your fitness anyway. But if you're going to have, ah let's say, a 5% to 10% decrement in your performance, if you're starting from a higher level of fitness, then that drop matters a little bit less in terms of significance. So focus on the important stuff. There's no shortcut to performance. um With that, also your general health matters. So make sure that you're you know if you're going to go to an event and show up there a week or two in advance, that's not the time to be hammering yourself because your body is already going through a lot of stress just trying to cope with the new elevation that you're at. And this is another
00:14:41
Speaker
mistake that I see a lot of people make. They show up to wherever it is that they're going to ah do the subjective and they're excited and they want to go preview the course or they want to go hike around and see the sights and do all the things. And their body is already stressed from the altitude. So then they get into problems where they get dehydrated, they're getting headaches, they're not feeling well, they're getting gut issues. This is so common, like think about people who are starting UTMB on the first day with gut issues. Typically it's because they've been messing around, not taking care of themselves, and then they show up on the race day and they're already tired or they're feeling under the weather. So take care of yourself as much as possible to avoid those things. That was spot on.
00:15:32
Speaker
Great answer. Yeah, I think it's it's so easy to get sucked into, Oh, I'm just going to do this and I'm just going to do that. And then all of a sudden you have 20, 25,000, 30,000 steps and you're exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. And you're exhausted and you don't really know why cause you didn't go on a run, but you've just been walking around and trying to see everything. And it's really hard because I have been there where I've kind of done more and then I've done. Yeah, it's exciting. And I've done last, like, Madeira, I didn't really do much. And then the race didn't go very well. And I was super sad because I hadn't seen a lot because I was just like ah trying to put it all in. But, you know, you have to kind of take your, take your risks. And I think it's a great idea to book some time on the other side of the race so you can enjoy it afterwards and not worry about, um, resting up. So yeah, I think that was fantastic. I've done. That's a great point. Always think about like, what's the priority? Yeah.
00:16:32
Speaker
I've done a couple of Whitney pushes and i find I've done them from sea level and I feel like you're so it's such a short amount of time also that you're at those higher elevations. It's like a few hours and then you're back down. So I can see how it would be. Yeah, it's pretty easy to just, I almost think of it as like, you're like eluding the effects of altitude in a way where you're like, I'll just go fast enough and like stay just ahead of it. And then come back down. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's effectively, effectively what you're doing, right? You're, you're, you're getting up and you're getting out before your body has a chance to really register what's going on.
00:17:16
Speaker
And so when when it's short like that, you know that that's absolutely the the best way to go about it. because And then just focus on your training and properly preparing in all the other ways, because there's you know there's more than one factor that's going to influence your success. Altitude is just one. There's a lot of other stuff you can do and prepare for and control for um in advance. Definitely. So our next question is, how do you begin basic altitude training for mostly flat slash road runners?
Balancing Training, Health, and Rest for Altitude
00:17:52
Speaker
And Martin touched on this in part one of intro to acclimatization.
00:17:59
Speaker
ah Also, I think we've talked about this in the internal altitude and also chatted a bit about this. ah Martin and I did a podcast episode back in the training for trail running series where we talked about altitude ah considerations for runners. But Chantal, can you give us ah a bit of a background on this? Sure. and We might have touched on this already in the previous question too. um You know, Most importantly, train. Can't say it enough. there's There's no shortcut. So make sure that you're doing your training. Make sure that you're staying really good and healthy. um And I'm not 100% sure on the what the person the question is driving towards. How do you begin basic altitude training? I'm assuming what they mean is they live in a flat place.
00:18:56
Speaker
or they typically run on roads and they're going to a higher altitude race. So I'm going to assume that's what they mean from the question. So if you live in a place that is mostly flat and you're mostly running on roads, try to get to some trails because they're, you know, although you can do a lot of great Incline training on a treadmill, I think that's really important when you don't have access to maybe some bigger hills or sustained hills, that can be really useful. It's very different running on a road or running on it, especially on a treadmill that's kind of like pulling you up a little bit as you're going. It's very lateral movements, right? When we're on a trail, it's typically, unless you're on a rail trail, it's a lot of jumping side to side, things like that. so
00:19:42
Speaker
um you don't get the agility that practice that you need when you're running on a treadmill or when you're running on a road. So even if you can get to a trail that is still a little bit flatter, I think that's going to be important. Try to find some hills around where you live to try to get your legs ready for for that. um Certainly strength training is going to be important, but I think strength training, I can't hammer it home enough, is really important for any kind of mountain athlete Whoever you are, you can get away with a lot of silly dumb stuff when you're in your 20s and arguably maybe in your 30s, but if you're 40 plus, then that tends to be a lot of our listeners. I know it sucks to be indoors and you don't want to be inside, you'd rather be outside, ah but strength training is just going to make you more prepared and more resilient overall.
00:20:30
Speaker
so Those basic things all have to be covered. um Also, make sure that you're balancing your training with enough rest. I see a lot of people that always think that you know more is more is better, and that's not always the case. We're not getting fitter when we're doing the thing. We're getting fitter when we rest, and that means we also have to fuel ourselves properly, and we need to stay hot well hydrated. so that our bodies are best prepared to not only do the training that we're asking our bodies to do, but also that so that we can recover and we can adapt to the training and become stronger. So one of the most important things I think for anyone, regardless of where you're living and where you're training, is to make sure that those things are balanced. um Also make sure that you are on top of your health. Get some blood work done. We talk about this also in a couple of our podcasts.
00:21:20
Speaker
um make sure that you know where that you are that you're um managing things properly and that you're staying healthy. And sometimes we don't really see the signs and when we recognize the signs, it's already too late or it takes a long time to course correct. So getting blood work at regular intervals is important to make sure that everything is well in line and that you're staying healthy. um Particularly your ferritin, your iron stores. If you're going to be going to a higher altitude, you want to make sure that your iron stores are in a good place so that you do have the best chance of having a positive response to altitude and a better chance of acclimatizing well.
00:22:01
Speaker
because if your iron stores are not in a good place, you're not going to give your body that chance. so And that can take, if your iron is low, it can take a minimum of six weeks to course correct that. So making sure that you're on top of that would be important. um And I don't really know what they mean by altitude training. The only way you could do some altitude training living at and around sea level would be to do some hypoxic training. with a hypoxic generator. So that would mean potentially like sleeping um sleeping in some form of a tent and that certainly could do. But as we've discussed in our part one and part two um intro to altitude and acclimatization strategies podcasts, that takes time and it will take away from your training. So again, you always have to look at all the different elements that you need to be successful in your event.
00:22:58
Speaker
or your objective, where you're starting from now, how much time you have, and what are the different elements you can put into your training. And I would say that your aerobic training and potentially anaerobic, any sort of fitness training and strength training, should come first and any sort of hypoxic preconditioning should come as a layer on top of that if you have enough time to do it. perfect I think this is a great way cause it's kind of a general question that you're able to give specific like in this scenario, in this scenario. So awesome. Uh, our next question, which we've discussed in season five, sorry, helicopter, the fun part living on a military base. Uh, we have discussed this. It was a great discussion, uh, in the intro to altitude season five, episode one.
00:23:55
Speaker
ah Chantel and Martin dove into this question, but does altitude, was ah so I'm going to say does altitude affect women and men differently?
Gender Differences in Altitude Effects
00:24:05
Speaker
If yes, how so? Yes, it does. And as you said, Alyssa, Martin and I covered this in a podcast, but just really briefly, it does impact men and women a little bit differently. ah One, for women and for I mentioned about the iron status, but I can't stress this enough, particularly for women because women tend to be a little bit more sensitive to um different types of environmental stimulus in general. um Iron status is really important, so can't hammer that home enough for you know women. That's going to be particularly important because particularly the women who are menstruating,
00:24:45
Speaker
um something to be on top of, but for men too, iron monitoring iron status is really important. um For premenopausal women, we do know that um there is a higher ventilatory response during the early luteal and midluteal phase of the menstrual period. So since women, women general in general, we have a higher respiratory rate than men in general, regardless of menstrual status menstrual cycle or anything like that
00:25:16
Speaker
that means that in that um highh hormonemon phase that means that we're going to read even more than we're going to, so breathing more frequently. And when we go to altitude, that is something that we all notice, right? We're breathing a little bit more. We're trying to bring in a little bit more air and more oxygen. So this means that women in that particular cycle of their menstrual phase could be more susceptible to having ah respiratory distress or like asthmatic types of symptoms. um And this is going to be a little bit, you know, not something that men typically have to contend with
00:25:54
Speaker
um in the way that women do. For postmenopausal women, they are going to have a similar um kind of hyperventilation response, but they also kind of have a cardiac response as well. So the threshold um the threshold to the kind of signal from the environment is a little bit stronger. And that means that it's going to be a little bit harder for the cardiovascular system to respond to the output that it's going to need. So it means that there might be just a little bit of a lag in terms of how long it will take for a post-menopausal women to adapt to altitude compared to a pre-menopausal women.
00:26:37
Speaker
um And in general, women spare carbohydrate at altitude better than men. So that's great. um That's an actual advantage for women. Men are going to use more carbohydrates for fuel at higher altitudes. Women naturally have more body fat and we are better fat burners at altitude. So that's a good thing for us. However, at higher intensities, um altitude is going to be a little bit harder because estrogen is triggering our bodies to hang on to those carbohydrates that we need for those hard efforts.
00:27:10
Speaker
So that's going to make it a little bit harder. So just noticing that you might need a little bit more time to warm up, that it might take a little bit longer for you to settle into a higher effort as well. And just you know have that awareness. Give yourself a little bit of grace and a little bit of kindness. You'll get there. Um, but your, your response and the signals that your body is receiving are going to be transmitted just a little bit more, a little bit differently. And the response time is going to be potentially a little bit slower. Um, and and that's okay knowing it's, it's not good or bad. It's just information. So use the information and, and, you know, make it a super power instead. Perfect. And yeah, I do think that.
00:27:57
Speaker
One of the things that we hear with women in altitude, especially on trips, is a lot of times trying to keep up with groups. And my guess is that a lot of that stems from it takes longer to warm up. And so you get in this like, okay, they take off and you're still trying to warm up. And that causes some fear and some anxiety of like, I can't keep up. And then that feeds into, yeah. And so I would say that just knowing that, okay, I will get there. I'm okay. I'm just taking little longer to warm up. That that hopefully gives
00:28:40
Speaker
some grace, as you said, and just some comfort of no, you're not in shape. You're not not in shape. You haven't, you know, gone backwards. You can do this. It's just your system takes longer. And you can do this. Yeah. And if you're in a race situation, if you're in a race situation, yeah, just run your own race, to your own thing. But if you're in a group, to your point, Alyssa, if you're in a group, and I had this conversation with a woman in a consult last week, you're in a group with other men and you know that that this is how your body responds. When you're going out on an adventure, you're talking about the weather, you're talking about avalanche conditions, you're talking about how much food people have in their packs.
00:29:22
Speaker
Who's got the first aid kit? Does anyone have a health condition or problem? Bring it up. This is a fact that is going to influence you on this journey, whatever your objective is, and let them know, hey, I'm going to have to be pretty slow and deliberate when I'm starting out today. I'm in this phase of my period. This is how it's affecting me. This is how I'm planning to support myself, and here's how you can support me. um Another factor to mention um that is also kind of consequential is that women's relationship and and tolerance to risk will also vary across the menstrual cycle. This is a fact. And if you know that this is a factor for you, Alyssa, I know we've talked about this quite a few times as well. Bring that up to group.
00:30:13
Speaker
bring that up to the group and share about like my risk tolerance today is a little lower than normal. so i am but The highest grade that I'm willing to climb today is this, or I'm feeling really nervous about this type of situation. I would like to turn around. Bring that up when you're at the trailhead before you're heading out so everyone knows. And this is just a fact of life. This is a fact of who you are and we have to normalize this as being part of a key part of anyone's adventure plan.
00:30:46
Speaker
Absolutely, and I will say to go back to the warming up, those men will thank you later when they're sucking wind and you're flying i if you all start out a little bit slower. so True. Warming up for everyone is never a bad thing. but yes the risk gosh we should that's That's an article that needs to be written. i've started one about how i well I actually had a friend say that they call it the wobbles when you're feeling particularly wobbly.
00:31:23
Speaker
is ah the days where your risk factor is a little bit low. And I have had more than one wobbly day. And it's much better to just know that upfront. And I think there's a lot of shame that's carried around it. um If you start to feel that you're going beyond what you're willing to do that day, and then you don't, there's this constant cycle of, I don't want to let my perters down. I don't want to be the weak link. I don't want to feed the narrative that women are um often kind of the tagalongs or secondary. And if I say anything, then I'm feeding into that narrative and then you're getting more anxious and it's causing all of those pieces to um escalate. And I have done that whole shame cycle in my head many times.
00:32:19
Speaker
And then you just burst out crying and you're and like everything kind of falls apart and so I love that. bringing that up at the beginning, just being straightforward and honest. ah It also I think opens the floor up because it's not like there's not men are just like, oh yeah, impervious, I shall just go down the trail and nothing's wrong with me. Like they're probably bringing, they are bringing factors into that day as well. So if we're all a bit more honest and transparent about how we're feeling, we will all be safer and a better team for it.
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. it's hundred percent That's That's my soapbox for the day.
00:33:02
Speaker
All right. So
Hypoxic Tents vs. Masks for Acclimatization
00:33:05
Speaker
let's go on to our next question, which is, is it better to sleep in a tent or train with a mask while using hypoxic, a hypoxic compressor? And we have talked about this in season five, episode six, part two of acclimatization strategies. But Chantel, can you add a ah bit of wisdom onto this? Yeah, I think the thing to note here is that these are two these are two actually two different strategies for two different purposes. so when you're when someone is sleeping in a so Both of these involve a hypoxic generator.
00:33:43
Speaker
So the gen basically what this generator is doing, whether you are breathing in air through a mask or it is under some form of a tent and there are tents that maybe cover your whole bed or there are tents that just cover your sort of head and shoulders, is that compressor is removing some of the air. within that space and replacing it with nitrogen. So it's effectively reducing the amount of oxygen that you're breathing in. And that is ah hyperbaric hypoxia. So when you are out in real altitude, out in the wild, um that is hypobaric
00:34:22
Speaker
ah hypobaric hypoxia. and that me And that is influenced by the barometric pressure around you. So there's always the same 21% of oxygen in the air, no matter where we are. But when we have ah areas of lower pressure than the amount, the the particles of oxygen that we're breathing are more dispersed. So there's less of those, ah even though there's still 21% of the oxygen in the air, we're able to get less of them into what we breathe. And then there's also the the barometric pressure effect on our other on our body, on our muscles, on our organs, on our tissues, hearts, lungs,
00:35:04
Speaker
etc. that are not mimicked when we're using an altitude tent. So although there are Some things that that the 10th can help us with in terms of pre-acclimatizing, you're going to get a different level of acclimatization when you're out in the wild. um So some of the things that you're not going to get from an oxygen 10th that you get in with real altitude exposure, and of course this takes time, is the is the increase in red blood cells. So that's one thing that we can't really mimic.
00:35:41
Speaker
probably, in and I know we'll go into detail in another future podcast about this. so that's how um That's what I want to point out, the difference between the two. When you're sleeping in a tent, you have the the tent over you and you're you're kind of in this confined environment for you know eight to 12 hours in a day and you're just laying there and you're not doing anything. um So it takes a lot of time and a lot of hours in that tent to have an impact. And then and that's you know a a good way to pre-acclimateize.
00:36:20
Speaker
When we're talking about training with a mask and we're doing something actively, that is called, typically what we're talking about here is more like active hypoxic training or some people are doing what's called intermittent hypoxic training. So this is like almost like doing intervals with a um with a generator attached to a mask that you're breathing in and you're controlling the percentage of oxygen that you're breathing to simulate varying altitudes. So you could do, you could be on a treadmill and you could be ah on a treadmill, kind of running or walking along, and you could simulate 20,000 feet or 6,000 meters per for five minutes, and then you could change that, dial that back down to 6,000 meters, or sorry, 6,000 feet for five minutes as a recovery.
00:37:12
Speaker
So you can also you can you could do this type of like active training. And so this type of training is not so much done for pre acclimatization, but it's more to kind of prepare yourself um mentally and physiologically and for what you're going to face when you are going on this higher altitude adventure. So some people will do this type of training, not because they're going to altitude at all, but for some people, it's actually a way to improve their performance wherever they are living. So some people will do it for an improvement of performance. um In some cases, there's there are some good studies that this type of hypoxic training can be helpful for um certain types of illnesses like um brain injury, maybe Alzheimer's disease, certain types of cancer.
00:38:04
Speaker
So there's sometimes people are using this as a type of therapy. um There's some good evidence to show that it can be helpful for cognitive function. So many other reasons people are gonna use this hypoxic training. But typically when we're thinking about athletes using hypoxic training, it's usually for performance gains or to kind of prepare them for the demands of high altitude and also um mentally preparing you how that feels to be It's one thing to be sleeping in a tent or laying in a tent, not doing anything when you have a hypoxic generator that is mimicking 20,000 feet. And it's another thing to be on a treadmill with a 15% incline hiking with that generator breathing air that is stimulating um an oxygen environment at
00:38:59
Speaker
20,000 feet. That's going to feel different. So mentally, it also helps kind of prepare for that too. So they're two completely different things and they're used for different purposes. Perfect. So that goes into another question that we had, and I'll try to interpret it a little bit, but is it realistic to simulate altitude with the, I think they're they're saying hypoxy, I think hypoxic compressor, and then how accurate are they in lowering altitude? And I think that means lowering the effect of altitude.
00:39:34
Speaker
And I think you've already covered this to a large extent, also covered it in the part two acclimatization strategies. But yeah, if you want to just wrap kind of the conversation on the hypoxic. yeah Yeah, it's like, it's, it's certainly it's certainly helpful. But it's not going to be the same as exposing, you know, the exposure to altitude in the wild. it's It's certainly going to be helpful, can be helpful. But again, as with any kind of intervention like this, you have people who are going to find it really helpful. You're going to have people that are going to find it not helpful at all. And you're going to have some people that are going to find it extremely unhelpful. Because think about doing this type of training. it's It is stressful on your body.
00:40:25
Speaker
It is going to impact your sleep quality. If you're sleeping inside of a tent and you're sharing, you are enclosed in this contraption and you have a partner that you're sharing a bed with, that's going to impact that person as well. So it's disruptive to your to your life. um It's going to impact your training, so it is going to be stressful on you, so you may not be able to train as hard or as well. um You're going to be dehydrated, um you not maybe not feel so great. so All those things are going to impact you as well. and I think Martin did a really great job of explaining kind of the pros and cons and what are some factors to consider um if you're going to think about doing this type of training.
00:41:09
Speaker
So you have to make sure that you you're doing all the other things right to kind of support the extra stress that this is gonna have on you so that you're gonna get the, if you're gonna spend the time and um let's face it, the money, right, in doing this type of training, you wanna make sure that you're gonna set yourself up for success. So make sure that all other elements of your training are also well managed so that you get the best benefit out of it. Perfect, and I would just add, I think that Sometimes there's this idea of, oh, if I do, if I sleep in the tent or I wear a mask, it will make it easy to be at much higher altitudes. And I would say that general thread that I have heard from
00:41:55
Speaker
ah this season and also just talking, and I've been at moderate altitude, but nothing, moderate to high, but nothing too crazy, ah is that there is nothing that is easy about it. It's just managing increasing levels of discomfort, ah like really high discomfort. And so I would say none of this is going to make being at six, seven, 8,000 meters easy. It's just going to make it possibly manageable. Yeah, it's training yourself to be comfortable being uncomfortable, yeah because it's still going to be um very uncomfortable. Yes.
00:42:37
Speaker
ah So this question, we have next slightly changing directions. Are
Training Considerations for Altitude Residents
00:42:43
Speaker
there benefits to athletes who live at altitude, ah but want to train lower, or lower altitudes? And then how do you structure this, which we really can't get into. I mean, that's a whole training plan. It's totally dependent on what you are. single po Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, it's like, are you a track athlete? Are you a Mountaineer? You know, there's so many pieces to that. And we have talked about this of the Martin's gone over the live high, train low, train low or ah live low, train high, train high, live high, i both in the training for trail running altitude episode and also um in the
00:43:30
Speaker
part one of acclimatization strategies where we were talking about moderate to high altitude. But Chantel, if you want to just give kind of a ah depends coach answer. Yeah, it it really does depend on a lot of things, right? Like what's your experience? What are you training for? What's your goal? What's your purpose? What altitude do you live at? um You know, and does that matter? And then what are how are you going to carry this out? Because that's not an easy thing to do, right? so um There are now you know a few around the world gyms that actually have, that are not only temperature controlled, but also ah kind of altitude controlled. So they have these specific training rooms that they set to, ah they have ah a generator there that is, instead of sleeping in a tent or having a mask on, the actual room is set to
00:44:26
Speaker
uh, to sort of mimic a particular elevation. So it's possible to train in these types of facilities. Um, and some of them, you know, and with the generator, if you are at a higher altitude, you can living at a higher altitude, like think about the Olympic training center, for example, in Colorado Springs, you know, they're at around 6,000 feet. They have an altitude room. They can, they can change the conditions of that room so that it is more like being at sea level. So that you know, that kind of training could take place.
00:45:00
Speaker
and so what might be a reason for an athlete doing that? Let's say there was an athlete that was um new to that environment and they weren't fully acclimatized or they were having or they lived at that at that altitude for a while and just felt like they were having some issues that they couldn't sort of break through a performance plateau for whatever reason. Maybe that's something that might try you know to see, like are there some things we can do by changing the environmental conditions that are going to have an impact on that on that person. Maybe that's a reason why someone might do it. Or if it was like a power athlete and they were feeling like they're their power was kind of being limited and there were some reasons to think that maybe their home elevation was a factor, maybe they want to change that. Because typically speaking for people who are
00:45:53
Speaker
sort of high altitude dwellers, you know, that you've lived at ah high altitude for a long time. If you think about your blood oxygen saturation, people who are living at sea level, their blood oxygen saturation, but unless they have a health problem, should be 100%. For someone who lives at high altitude, like personally, I've lived at high altitude now for a long time, around at least a decade now, right? If I were to check my blood oxygen concentration, it's never going to be 100. Maybe it's 94, maybe it's 96, maybe sometimes it's great and it's 98, but it's never gonna be 100%. So putting myself in a higher oxygen environment could allow me to perform a little bit better, to work a little bit harder, to push a little bit further. So again, it's gonna be really individual based on
00:46:43
Speaker
what someone's situation is like, what their goal is, um what whether they have maybe some underlying health conditions as well that could be influencing them, um that they might consider something like that. Love it. Yeah. I always think of it as I don't know. Well, I always think of it as marathon runners where I think a lot of times they'll do their faster workouts where they're trying to hit specific paces that they would say be trying to do in the Boston Marathon or ah the Chicago, you know, with the Olympics. Like it's really hard to hit those paces at the altitude. And so for them to simulate the actual race experience, I think oftentimes they go to lower elevation or go to the room to be like, okay, this is what a 458 feels like. which is insane to me, but yes. Yeah. um Yeah, it's it's wild to think about that, right? How how fast they're actually going. So yeah, it's going to be a very specific kind of person who's going to benefit from that with a very specific goal. Yes. So our last, well, we have two left. ah This is a question and I think it's a much bigger,
00:47:57
Speaker
answer but we have a lot of athletes who are ah in their 60s, 70s going and doing these bigger mountains, which is really incredible. um And so we want to get into how does age influence the effects of altitude? Is it a factor? And what might be some physiological differences and changes in ah the response to altitude as you start to age?
Aging and Altitude Adaptation
00:48:30
Speaker
I love this question, actually. First of all, let me start with age is not a barrier. Age alone is not a barrier.
00:48:38
Speaker
Um, to whatever you want to do. I think like if you, man, look at our Instagram feed in the last little while, we've had so many wonderful athletes that we are working with who are definitely north of 50 doing pretty incredible things, you know, summoning mountains, running a hundred kilometer races in the Alps, doing all kinds of things. So age alone is not a barrier. However, we do know that with age comes some changes in our health. And typically typically speaking, the older a person is, regardless of living a healthy lifestyle, they are more likely to have some underlying health conditions. So we see changes maybe in cholesterol cholesterol levels, cardiovascular health, um all kinds of other you know ah breathing issues, things like that.
00:49:28
Speaker
you know, especially when you think about people who've had COVID right over the last ah several years, we are seeing people who are a little bit older or or who never even knew they had an underlying health condition, had extremely severe um COVID symptoms. And then they learned that, oh, I didn't know I had a problem already going on with my, a minor problem going on with my heart or with my lungs or something like that. So, um
00:49:59
Speaker
you know Another good reason for if you're you know about to undertake a new adventure, a change in your activity status, something like that, please see a doctor, get a full health screening, talk to them about what you're planning to do. If they tell you that you're crazy and you shouldn't do it, see someone else. ah There's going to be someone else who's going to say, wow, someone who is over the age of 50 who wants to live a healthy lifestyle and be active and climb mountains with their children and grandchildren. Heck yeah, let's make that happen. Talk to someone else if you get that kind of answer.
00:50:33
Speaker
But make sure that you don't have something underlying that's going on. so you know For someone who has a heart condition or who has an issue with their blood pressure, hypertension, things like that, that's going to impact impair your ability to adapt and acclimate to altitude. So make sure that if you if you you know you get these things checked out and it doesn't mean that if you have, you know ah you encounter some underlying health condition, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't do some of these adventures that you want to do, but you're going to need some really good medical advice and you're going to need some really good preparation and training to be able to handle that.
00:51:18
Speaker
So one of the big things that influences um people going to altitude, and this is really any age, but it's probably a little more pronounced for people who are over the age of 45, is impaired endothelial function. And endothelial cells are the little cells that line our blood vessels, and they help control the opening and closing of our arteries. So that regulates our, that helps our body regulate our blood pressure. And it also influences how hard your heart has to work to pump the blood through your body. So you can imagine that if the endothelial cells are impaired in any way and your arteries are narrowed, that means that your blood is not gonna be able to move well through your body. That's gonna increase your blood pressure and that's going to influence
00:52:12
Speaker
How well you're going to be able to adapt to altitude obviously because you're going to maybe you're already dealing with shortness of breath. Maybe you already experience dizziness sometimes exercising at your home elevation. Maybe you are already having some issues with your blood pressure and blood pressure is a function of a really important function because that's gonna put a stress on your heart if your blood pressure is already high, that's gonna stress your body out. So you're gonna wanna figure that out, right? Get to know that in advance. And so there definitely, you know, haven't been enough studies on people over 50 going to higher altitude, but we certainly do have some good studies on people who are over the age of 50 living at higher altitude. And what we do know is that
00:53:03
Speaker
naturally with age, our VO2 max decreases. So people in this age category can certainly benefit from doing some training on the higher end of the aerobic spectrum to keep that to keep that as high as it as it can be. So good training is important. It could be that they're going you're going to need additional days to acclimatize when you go to higher elevations. um And I have run across a study on looking at thinking about Kilimanjaro, That's a popular climb for people of all ages. It's not technical. So we have some really good data on people. And most of the people who have problems not summoning are 50 and above. And in a recent study that was done on this population, this the success rate was drastically improved by giving them just one more day from the standard acclimatization protocol. Just one extra day was enough to
00:54:03
Speaker
improve their success rate pretty dramatically. So things to think about. One, b really have a really good picture of your overall health. um Speak to a doctor. If you know that you do have an issue with um hypertension, talk to your doctor about this to make sure whether this is going to be safe for you. And it could be with some prophylactic medication like acetazolamide. um program that that's going to be enough to help keep you safe and allow you to still go to a higher altitude. So this is a drug that can help with regulating your ventilation rate, increasing diuresis, so making sure that you are you know flushing excess water out of your system, excess fluid out of your system. And it can also sometimes help improve sleep issues that
00:54:59
Speaker
people tend to get at higher altitudes. So it could be that this type of drug could be helpful for you. But I think these are the most important things. But the main factors that are going to help improve your chance of success, know what you're dealing with in advance, speak to a medical professional, make sure you're doing everything you can to stay healthy. That means having a good training program that is going to challenge you in the right ways, but builds in enough rest, and also potentially um giving yourself additional time to acclimatize because your body is just going to have a little bit of a slower response. That's amazing. Yeah. And as you said, we have so many athletes who are having incredible, I like i don't love the word success of just, you know, summoning, but success at being in the mountains, doing what they love, climbing with their
00:55:52
Speaker
adult children, grandchildren. It's challenging themselves. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I always, they'll be like, ah, well, I have five good years left. I'm like, no, you have a bunch of good years left. You know, let's not just cap it at this time. Um, but yeah, yeah that's fantastic. And it's exciting to see. And I hope that there is more research that is done on people who are actually you know climbing. like Amazing that we have people who are living, but then yeah hitting that demographic. um That brings us to our last question, which is,
00:56:33
Speaker
How do I incorporate hypoxic pre acclimatization, hypoxic training um into my actual training plan? Because
Tailoring Hypoxic Training to Individual Needs
00:56:43
Speaker
it is not just a simple, oh, we added on top. that's That's the recipe for it disaster. So uphill has a number of ways that we are incorporating into training plans. I know you and Martin are leading this. So yeah, we'd love to hear how we are doing that. So there's, you know, with with training, I think there's definitely an art and a science and that's where the art and the science really has to come into play. So, you know, having having a plan is really important. You know, if you if you if you, how does that go? If you fail to plan you plan to fail. So you have to have a plan. You have to be really clear about what your goals are, how you're gonna meet those goals.
00:57:26
Speaker
what that training is going to look like and having a place, a proper place of evaluating whether some pre acclimatization is going to be helpful for you. If you decide that that makes sense and that you have the time to do it, then that has to be woven into your regular training program pretty carefully. And this is different for everyone. This is not something that you can do a one size fits all. with a regular training plan, we could give our 24-week mountaineering training plan to 100 people, 100 different people who are doing different things, and probably all of those people, if they've never followed a training plan before, they're going to feel good and have a good chance at success just because they've had a training plan, even if it's not perfectly dialed into them and their objective, right? Following a plan is certainly going to help. When it comes into a hypoxic training plan,
00:58:23
Speaker
Um, whether you are weaving, whether you're doing like a sleep protocol, uh, for pre acclimation, or you're incorporating some intermittent hypoxic training, sort of active training. With a mask, that's something where we cannot give a one like size fits all program because we have to consider so many different factors. And when we do a hypoxic training plan that is evaluated every single day and it's updated every day compared to like when we are typically when we are working with athletes one on one and we are
00:58:56
Speaker
we are preparing their training plan kind of week by week with hypoxic training that has to be done sort of day by day because we are looking at every day, how is the person doing? How are they sleeping? How are they feeling? Are they losing weight? How's their energy? How's their mood? And also trying to balance the stress of the training with the the the stress of the active training with the stress of the sleep training protocol or the hypoxic tent sleep training protocol. And we're adjusting that every single day. So every person is going to adapt to these things differently. And because that is quite difficult, um Martin has sort of been our first has taken on a few
00:59:44
Speaker
athletes this year where he was doing both their sort of training like active training protocol and their hypoxic training protocol and blending the two together. And that worked really well effectively because Martin was doing both of those things. And then maybe this is a little bit of a teaser, but we are working on trying to make this available for more athletes. So for athletes that are really wondering how they can incorporate these things and want to rent a generator or they're purchasing a generator and want to have some expert guided advice, we are going to be able to offer this to athletes who are coached by uphill athlete coaches. So it's a little, it would be really difficult for us to provide this additional element to training to someone working with an outside coach because all coaches kind of have different methods. Whereas an uphill athlete, we
01:00:40
Speaker
Even though coaches might do things a little bit differently, we're all working under a similar philosophy. We're all science-guided. And the communication between the two coaches is going to be really important because there will be potentially a different coach doing the everyday training and then a different coach, maybe it's Martin, and maybe it's myself, that is overseeing the hypoxic training component. And then we'll be working with the the coach and the athlete to marry those things together because it's not just something that you kind of layer on top. We really have to intermingle them to make sure that we are challenging our athlete in just the right way. Yes. And I can say from a couple of athletes that have integrated
01:01:27
Speaker
protocols of varying degrees that yes the amount of hands-on checking every day of like oh my gosh they slept an hour last night because they just couldn't they were really uncomfortable you know it's it's very much yes personalized and have to monitor a lot so yeah this is I mean that's super exciting I don't know i'm even sure if there's other companies that are really – is anyone else really doing this? I think there are a couple of – there are a couple of altitude consultants that are offering that, but I'm not sure – and there are a couple of like the Altitude Training Centre in London. um They do have – take a ah really good, I think, integrated approach.
01:02:16
Speaker
to that and I think that's something that we're really excited about being able to do is to, because it really does need an integrated approach to get the best result. And if you're, let's face it, if you're going to spend the money on getting this generator or renting this generator and you're going to be training, it's, you know, you might as well do it right because there's a pretty high cost if you goof it up. That is very true. Well, thank you Chantel for that. And we're excited to see those elements come out as uphill offerings. You can see more at uphillathlete.com. You can book a consult to talk to Chantel or Barton or any of our other coaches. And thank you for
01:03:05
Speaker
being here and listening and thank you Chantel for your time. yeah Thanks Alyssa and thanks everyone who submitted the great questions for our discussion today. Yes, very hopeful. It's not just one, but a community. We are a PoA.