Transcript
Speaker: How do you want to be remembered? As funny,
Speaker: as positive and as good company, I guess. I just said I want to be remembered as a good father. That is the most important thing that I've done in my life, that I will do in my life I just want to be remembered by the people that know me or knew me directly um as as a positive presence in in their life. That's that's all.
Speaker: That I was a nice person, really. I think that I'd love to be remembered as someone that made the outdoors and climbing in general lifted and more welcoming.
Speaker: How do you want to be remembered, Jimmy? I want to be remembered... that I stayed authentic and that I kept it real. You know, if my children remember me as being that, then I'm, I, I, I won.
Speaker: I'm happy. I'm not worried about what people are going to think about me in the future when I'm dead. Does that make sense? That's what I want to leave you guys with here that go out there and do what your skills are good at. it to do what you can.
Speaker: How do you want Ed Wiesters to be remembered? You know, just having lived a life that I chose that that was different, but that made me happy.
Speaker: And hopefully um I was humble and respectful for the mountains and the people that I was with. And I treated people well.
Speaker: and I have no regrets um and that I just kind of went out there and and honestly lived my dream.
Speaker: Hi, everyone. Well, you are hearing a different voice today. This is Alyssa Clark, and normally I'm behind the scenes so of our Voice of the Mountains podcast, but today i will be the host, and I am joined by your normal host, Steve House, who is going to be on the other side of the microphone today, and our head of research and writing, Jamie Lyko, who will also be joining us.
Speaker: So thank you both for being here. Thanks, Alyssa. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Of course. So purpose of our episode today is we're going to be doing a recap of the episodes of Voice of the Mountains and diving into our favorite moments, most surprising, and did we accomplish what we wanted to?
Speaker: We'll also be throwing in a few fun extra tidbits and buckle up. This should be a lot of fun. So first off, I want to start with Steve talking about why we decided to do this episode. Because there were a back and forth in meetings before we came to our final decision. But Steve, love to hear from you.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it took a long time for this idea to gestate and come to life. years actually, and ah really kind of goes back to, you know, even the training for the new Alpinism book where I wrote this chapter about mental training, the most difficult 80%, but it's also piece we speak about and teach about the least and trying to find a place to, to give life to that conversation.
Speaker: But you pretty quickly, when you think about these things, realize it's more than just mental. It's also very emotional. And human beings are emotional creatures first and logical creatures second.
Speaker: So this is an important avenue of exploration understanding. It was really unclear as to how it was going to work and what we were going to talk about and who we're going to speak to and how we were going to express this and explore this because it's not like we were from the beginning. We said we don't have the answers. We just want to go on a creative exploration.
Speaker: How was that for you, Jim? I think it was extremely exciting because I don't have the background that you guys have in mountain sports. So a lot of these people, I was meeting them for the first time as I tried to research them. And um generally, i write predominantly narrative ah pieces. So I'm kind of deciding what the story is going to be. And so it was it was interesting to try to help you.
Speaker: um have the questions in the background so that you could get their story out of them. And then it was a lot of fun to kind of see what we were left with after and, you know, how much we got out of your interviews.
Speaker: And, you know, as an aside, that's on purpose that you're from outside of mountain sports, in a sense, you have a strong running background, track and field, that kind of thing, middle distance, but also with the guy that made the short films that we've ah accompanied these explorations, Christian, he comes from cycling. So I want creative partners that come from outside of climbing and running and skiing whenever I can, because i want
Speaker: a fresh perspective. I want help seeing the universality of these things. I'm so close to it and it's so much my life and my identity that I understand that I don't have all the perspective of as to what what resonates universally and what may not. So um I thank you for that because you were actually really great at shaping these narratives and in many, many cases put me onto ideas with these guests that frankly, I just was blind to.
Speaker: Well, that thanks for the opportunity. it It's been a very interesting creative process. So Steve, why did you want to do this episode in particular? What was the interest behind doing a recap episode?
Speaker: Yeah, well, we recorded the last episode ah Voice of the Mountains and over a month ago And and we immediately started talking about Voice of the Mountain season two. i mean, that wasn't necessarily ever part of the plan. The part of it was really to just gonna be a, in my mind, it was gonna be 10 or 12 episodes and that would be it and we kind of accomplish our goal or not.
Speaker: So I thought it was really interesting that people resonated with it enough that they wanted more, but they wanted to kind of shift it somewhere else a little bit. um And it wasn't clear where that was. So then immediately the question came up like, well, where have we been?
Speaker: you know, before we decide where, what we want to cover next, we have to make sure we understand what we've already been over. So we aren't just repeating ourselves. I don't want to do a voice of the mountains too. That is just a repeat of season one with just slightly different guests, but the same ideas that that's going to get boring really fast for, for the listeners and also for, for us in this creative exploration.
Speaker: So yeah, it was just ah to to look back, see where we're where we came from, what we covered, see what the lowlights were, see what the challenges were, but also kind of recount some of the highlights. And you know maybe this is even a point of entry for people who have not listened to the other Voice of the Mountains, where they could just hear the the best and the worst parts, and then maybe go back and listen to some of the some of the episodes that they want to or or not Love it. And I think we're truly following what it means to be a good mountain athlete.
Speaker: The debrief is um one of the most important parts of the whole process is going back, talking about what went right and what went wrong. So we're really ah yeah following that process as well.
Speaker: So let's get into our highlights. Let's jump in with your favorite moments from season one.
Speaker: So Jamie, if I can put you on the spot, do you want to lead us off? I mean, everybody was amazing. I thought I could listen to Lydia tell stories all day long. She, she was, she was hilarious and a lot of fun.
Speaker: On a more poignant note, um in her episode, she talked about Maori cultures in a different view of mentorship that they have, that it goes both ways and old mentors, young and young mentors, old and,
Speaker: I found that fascinating. And I feel like Steve, you kind of you know you've talked a lot about that. you know One of the North Stars for this being, what is the podcast I would have listened to when I was 22 or 24 or 25? And I think that was a really interesting way to look at it.
Speaker: But also I think you had some people on that I think you learned a lot from that are younger and and at are an earlier point in your career. So um that point that Lydia made really, really resonated.
Speaker: This is stated often, but just to recap, the the this sort of mission statement for Voice of the Mountains was to explore the mental and emotional adventures found in discovering who we are and what we're capable of, to engage in self-reflection and humility and embrace the beauty and struggles of the Alpine experiences equally.
Speaker: In terms of self-reflection and humility, i think the episode with Corey Richards kind of takes the cake on that. He has gone deep on self-reflection and and humility and self-development and written an incredible book about it that we covered in another additional podcast episode, The Upple Athlete Podcast.
Speaker: So in in that way, i felt like the Corey episode was incredible. The other one that stands out in that way, i think, is the episode with Barry Blanchard, which was our initial ah episode, which, by the way,
Speaker: yes I was drenched in sweat five minutes after that even started. It was so interesting that for me as a host to like be so incredibly nervous. i haven't been nervous for anything like that.
Speaker: I have not been that nervous for anything in a very long time. And you know that got less and less over the over the course of the 10 episodes. But initially, I was just a wreck going into that.
Speaker: And it drained me and Barry, you know, shared stories that, you know, I'd never heard. And this is somebody I've known deeply for 30 years of my life. So that was pretty wild to hear some of the things that he's gone through in his in his life, particularly his early life.
Speaker: And there are probably things that are... you know, not exactly the same for other people, but a lot of people have things like that that are buried inside of them that haven't been able to see the light of of day and the light of compassion and the light of empathy and a very, very, very long time. So that was pretty powerful too.
Speaker: Yes. I will say still when we've talked about most shocking moments, When Barry was saying I would have killed him, i think Jamie and I were on the call and we might have audibly gasped if you could have heard us.
Speaker: It's still a moment. just the You could feel the emotion in his voice and just how that situation still is so powerful in who he is.
Speaker: It was extremely visceral and we almost took a turn real fast to becoming like a true crime podcast, which would have been harder to maintain for 10 episodes. But um yeah, Barry's story was awesome.
Speaker: We would have had a way bigger. a true kind of tribe It's true. I don't know how people, i cannot listen to any of those when I'm out running, i get way too scared.
Speaker: I'll say, I think. and I know Steve, you brought this up in other areas and got LinkedIn and a few other places. Will Gad talking about inviting people in and his story of when he found some climbers who I think they were bolting or they were damaging the wall in some way. And instead of chastising them, he helped teach and open, openly welcome them into the community And I just felt that was so powerful, especially to be honest, in this day and age where we see people make mistakes and they're canceled or they're outcast on social media. And instead of Will buying into that, he takes it the opportunity to say, no, come be a part of the community so we can learn.
Speaker: And I think that mentorship was such a
Speaker: a theme drawn through so many of these episodes. I mean, I saw it in Sasha to Julian's where she said, Hey, don't give me beta because I'm a woman trying to call her.
Speaker: She was crushing the climbs, but she's like, I don't need your beta. Like, let me just be a climber. Um, and then the point with Lydia ah Conrad Anker, like all of those mentorship was such a huge piece, but I really loved Will's points of calling people in.
Speaker: That was also really interesting for me because I haven't, Will's another one of the guests who I've known him for about 25 years, but I haven't been very close to him or seen him much in the last five to 10 years.
Speaker: And you know It's so interesting to have known that Will, ah that was you know when I was 25, who is totally different. He was kind of an astral, frankly. And you know he would probably say that too. He wouldn't have been that person that could have done that when he was young. So it's really, I had an extra dimension of appreciation for that because I saw how much he's changed. And I was really like, wow, this is this is ah this is a Will i I didn't know about. And I'm so proud that
Speaker: that he is this, this man now, and it is showing up in this way for, for these other people, but also just for our community. mean, what an example to set. Yeah. I mean, i think it's interesting that you say you kind of knew him then and now hearing this, but you've also said that about yourself where we've talked about situations. You're like, Oh, 25 year old me wouldn't have even been invited to this conversation. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so maybe 25-year-old Steve and Will can hear this in maybe a few years earlier. That's part of what I was wanting to explore, frankly. Like, these are the ideas. Like, what is it that these mountain sports help us to become, you know?
Speaker: I started off as a pretty rough around the edges, you know, kid who had some very strong black and white sort of beliefs. And while that got me to a certain level, you know, it also caused me to sort of hit a ceiling in my my my growth as a human for a long time.
Speaker: and I think it's interesting to have these, and we we called this out in the beginning. I think you wrote this these lines, Jamie, about how we wanted to, do because we wanted to call out the fact that we are going to mostly lean on the older generation of of uphill athletes, um not because we wont the younger generation doesn't have anything to say, they do, but the older generation could kind of have this advantage of hindsight.
Speaker: and And that is an advantage. So hopefully that but there are some of the younger climbers and runners and skiers out there listening to those conversations. and And maybe not these changes don't happen overnight, right? But maybe it just like cracks the cracks the window a little bit on some other possibilities.
Speaker: Yeah, I think they're, i mean, those changes come incrementally. we We've talked about this. You know, you don't, you you read a bunch of books that change your life. You don't read one and then suddenly,
Speaker: you're completely fully evolved, you know, and i I, a lot of, I found that to be a common theme throughout with a lot of the guests of that kind of recognition. It took me a while to get to have the the perspective that I have. And so, you know, if you can speed up that process a little bit for, you know, younger athletes by continuing stuff like voice of the mountain, then, you know, all the better.
Speaker: i think this series also opened up the door that, you can be competitive and you can be compassionate. They are not mutually exclusive.
Speaker: And so often I think, and I, this is something as an evolution as an athlete. i talked about this with my coach. I mean, Steve, we've talked about this is that hard exterior, that deep, like, I just have to be, to be tougher, stronger, better than everyone else to be the absolute best. And it's like,
Speaker: Well, no, not not necessarily. You can also be compassionate and caring and vulnerable, and that actually might get you further. Yeah, I would argue that that it does get you further. Yeah, I would agree.
Speaker: I mean, even if it doesn't always get you further, it costs you nothing. you know like it's it's it's not taking It's not detracting from your accomplishments by doing it, you know accomplishing gracefully or accomplishing you know and then looking back over your shoulder and cheering for the person behind you. you know It doesn't make you weak.
Speaker: I think that the people who are not achieving the top level are often the ones who I think subconsciously are asking for that hard kind of cutthroat exterior from their champions because it somehow makes them feel ah better about not being the champions themselves.
Speaker: And that's sort of a big statement. But the problem with competition ah that I would argue is that there's only one winner. And a lot of people go out and try their hardest and then we only celebrate one of them.
Speaker: And I think that there's, you know, this is one of the things that I think mountain sports has to teach society at large is that it we, society celebrates that kind of winner take all mentality. We have super bowls and all the other things.
Speaker: And I understand the commercial value of that. And that's a different story, yeah, With mountain sports, we can celebrate everyone who's striving and growing and achieving, and it doesn't take away anything from the person that won. In fact, it elevates the person that won because all these hundreds or thousands of people were working to be their best, and one person,
Speaker: or 10 people also managed to get into this top 0001% through their dedication and hard work and luck and genetics and so and things. So if those people, I think like Killian Jornet is a great example of this, right? Like everyone is so shocked when they meet Killian and they expect because he's such a great champion in ultra running and schemo that he's going to be a jerk.
Speaker: And he's completely the opposite of a jerk. He is like one of the most kind, compassionate, caring humans you will ever meet. And everybody's always shocked. Like everybody I meet who meets Killian for the first time is like, oh, wow, he's so nice.
Speaker: You know, and i think we tend to do that to our our heroes. And some of our people, some of our people in our community who are striving to become those champions,
Speaker: buy into it and think, oh, I have to be that way. I have to be tough and mean and cutthroat and all that in order to be a champion.
Speaker: But I i mean, Killian's a great example. One of the most interesting things I found you know from you teaching me about this community, Steve, and from you know doing research was I never would have expected that there were assholes in mountain sports. I just would have thought in my mind, it would have just been this like wonderfully welcoming community because everyone was outside in nature. i was just ah totally naive about that. And, you know, i was so surprised to find that.
Speaker: that and it's you know Especially learning this with like some of the stuff that Sasha went through, that there's this kind of locals-only mentality that like is legendary in surfing like with with climbing.
Speaker: That was very interesting to me. like i didn't I didn't get that because I don't remember... and Granted, maybe i didn't i was blind to it, but I don't remember that in distance running. there was kind of ah We all got through. We're all exhausted. we We all got the tar kicked out of us by that race.
Speaker: um There weren't a lot of jerks. So that was very interesting to find out. That is why we need you for the perspective because there's still people in my area who will not tell you ski lines. They will not give you routes because they do not want you to know. They gatekeep people.
Speaker: that information so that the lines don't get overused so that people can't find out their favorite spots. It's super frustrating, but it's that, yeah, very much that way of the surf mentality.
Speaker: One of the other things that surprised me a lot that in a good way about these episodes and and you know this, Jamie, because i I frequently send this to you, particularly with guests like Ed Visters and Jimmy Chin who do a lot of public appearances, a lot of public speaking.
Speaker: i was worried that we were going to get the PR version, right? Like, If you go on YouTube and you listen to Jimmy or you listen to Ed, like you kind of hear they've distilled their messaging down to what what works.
Speaker: and and And that's great. But I wanted to go into a deeper, into a different level with them. And what was such a nice surprise was how relieved actually they were that we were not we we're going on into a deeper level of conversation in another direction. After we turned off the mics, i I thanked him for that. And his comment was like, this is the stuff that I always want to talk about, but nobody asks me about.
Speaker: So I think that that's really interesting too. I think as a community, we kind of have this common story that we we have about our heroes and whether it's whether it's Killian and his and his racing or or Ed and his climbs or Jimmy and his films, we have this sort of common story, but they're actually really eager to get to what's underneath those stories.
Speaker: That was really, really, um really rewarding, I guess is the word. I mean, it's the whole idea of an overnight success, you know, 10 years in the making amazing.
Speaker: It's that 10 years. That's the interesting part, not the win. I actually find, yeah, when races or mountains go well, don't learn a whole lot from that.
Speaker: It's all the other lessons that come along the way in the training and the things that don't ah necessarily go our way. But um let's jump to what was the funniest moment that you came across in the podcast?
Speaker: And then we'll move on. Yeah, go ahead, Alyssa. okay i thought it was so funny Corey Richards said, ah I went to a trainer and said, I want to look good naked.
Speaker: And that's the reason why I'm training. just loved his honesty of like, yeah, that's why I'm training. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Corey is hilarious that way. he's always been that way. Again, have so many of these guests I've known for basically my entire adult life. and He's always sort of worn his heart on his sleeve. And that's very, very Corey.
Speaker: i just love Lydia. She was just... Such a great spirit and such a a wonderful person. And she's like that person like, man, how do I go on a trip with her? I'm going to be tired from the climbing and they're going to be tired from laughing. She was just great. You could see she just, you know, is one of these women that, you know, just, just has life by the horns in many, many ways and would just be ah fun to do any adventure with.
Speaker: Yeah, I second that. if If Lydia wants to ever write ah and perform like a one-woman stage show, I hope she reaches out because I would ah would love to help her with that. She was great.
Speaker: She was, by yeah, kind of stole that. It's funny, not to go away from funny, but ah something i think is really interesting, Steve, is what did you find because you knew so many of the people, and sorry if we were going to talk about this later, if we can come back to it. but Go for it.
Speaker: you knew so many of your guests so well, and then others you didn't know quite as well. What were some of the differences in your approach or your apprehensions, you know, when when it came to those two different kinds of interviews?
Speaker: With the people I knew well, it felt, of the other than my own internal anxiety being ramped up by, you know, some of the earlier podcasts, but with the people I knew well,
Speaker: I was just inherently more comfortable. The reason that we started with Barry Blanchard wasn't honestly for the audience, it was for me, because he's one of the humans that I am most comfortable with of the seven billion humans on the planet.
Speaker: So that was really for me. And some of the people I knew less well, we actually, maybe maybe subconsciously on purpose we did towards the end. like I don't know Ed Wiesters that well. I don't know Shasha DeJulian that well.
Speaker: um you know i I've known Rick for a long time, Ridgway, but I did never like do an expedition with him or a trip with him. I knew him more as ah in a work environment.
Speaker: So yeah, those people that I didn't know well, I was just less sure what we would talk about, um you know, and and what was, I didn't know what their boundaries would be.
Speaker: I didn't know what their triggers would be. And with being a host, it's, I think, important to know what your guests' triggers and boundaries would be. One, so you can possibly avoid them if that's what you want to do, but two, so you can push on them if that's what you want to do, because that's often where the most interesting stuff comes out is when you're probing those triggers and boundaries of the guest and you're getting these like really, that's when you get into this really real emotional, you know, work.
Speaker: I mean, mountain sports carry a lot of trauma as well and difficult moments. And so, that is tricky of figuring out, oh, can I touch on this? Or, you you know, that that's not kind to, to push into that.
Speaker: Yeah. And a lot of people listening, i think it makes many of them sometimes feel uncomfortable. I've seen, seeing that as well. or I've gotten comments or feedback from people who like, oh, that was brave. And i'm like, well, really was it? I mean,
Speaker: I'm not, you know, for me or for the guest, we're already, you know, I think that those start to be like, that's a reflection of you as a listener, not as me as ah as a host or the guest as a guest.
Speaker: We are going someplace where maybe we're already comfortable going, but it feels like it's a listener's boundary or a listener's trigger and it's triggering them, not us. So I think that that's also interesting. And one of the reasons why i I always want to kind of go deep and and push into those boundaries because I think that also my goal is to have an impact on the listeners, you know, that makes them makes them think and feel and connect with their feelings and thoughts around these topics and who they are and who they want to become.
Speaker: I can definitely to that concept of, you know, the boundary being with the listener because it was certainly... you know heartbreaking, but also fascinating to see how many of these people in this community have suffered loss in their pursuit of their accomplishments.
Speaker: And Not that they speak about it matter-of-factly, but I mean i guess that's kind of what it is because you you and those sports have reached a level of acceptance and understanding that it's going to happen. The interesting thing is, how did you move forward after that? and I think, yeah, for a lot of people, that's that's we can't wrap our brain around the, why would you keep doing this?
Speaker: when there's this level of risk. And I thought that you did a good job throughout the season, not just making each interview being like, tell me about your trauma. And each one of them could have been ah harrowing story. And we know some of their harrowing stories.
Speaker: um So I thought that was, that brought a level of a new layer to the conversation that was really interesting for me. And I think also, What adds a new layer is the people that you were talking to are the ones who have survived.
Speaker: That perspective is so much different, I feel like, than a lot of others. And yes, there is that harrowing story, but it's also then how did you go and live afterwards?
Speaker: And go climb again. you know Yeah, absolutely. And I think people wrestle with these these questions every day.
Speaker: And one of the things, Lydia did a great job with this, where she talked about her climb on that peak in India. I can't remember even what it was called. And they were in like six or seven avalanches. And then they were at an open bivouac and openly were talking about, yep, we got like maybe one more night before, you know, if we have to do this one more night, we're going to be dead kind of a thing. And then She said after that experience, she went back home or wherever she went to and she said she so she stared at the wall for a couple of weeks with PTSD and then she just started doing things again.
Speaker: And it was this, I think we it's this idea And this came up a lot, this idea of finding your power, finding your agency, finding your ability to to act and move through really hard situations, whether they're because of loss or they're just because an incredibly audacious goal.
Speaker: It's the the answer to both of those is actually the same. It's it's doing the the smallest next thing you can do that you're capable of doing. And that can be just making your bed that day, right? Like, or it could be, you know,
Speaker: going for your long run or going training or or you know reading a book or whatever it is, but just getting some kind of like this momentum of agency, this momentum of doing and and and doing things not randomly or that that detour or self-sabotage, but do things that that constructively build towards where you know you want to go.
Speaker: And that that came up a lot. I think a couple of people talked about that. Rick Ridgeway also talked about that when he talked about the the loss of his friend. i think it was Chris Chandler who died on a mountain in in Tibet many, many years ago. and and you know, how he, how he moved through that. And I put myself and I've been here too.
Speaker: When we had these things happen around us, it's easy to feel like, we're the victim of of a great tragedy, um and that we're the first people that this ever happened to.
Speaker: And both of those things are are falsehoods that we sort of tell ourselves to give ourselves permission to to stay stuck, I think, because it's easier.
Speaker: you know I think it's important for us to not to realize that we and our lives and our experiences or our lives are not unique, completely unique so snowflakes. We're unique to a degree, but you know other people have moved through these things before.
Speaker: And ah there are ways to get help and to lean on those that have sort of been on this path in the past and and help people help each other through that.
Speaker: And that's, again, like going back to the kind of the more senior members of our community. They're often the ones, you know, Conrad talked about this when he talked about, I think his name, I forgot his last name. i think he mentioned Gil helped him move through the loss of of Alex Lowe 1999 and how he how he processed and moved through that. He needed to reach out to somebody, or in this case, somebody actually reached out to him and brought him along through that process of finding his agency and finding his way back to his life again.
Speaker: And yeah, these are, these are, these are important things. These are important topics. um Thanks for sharing that, Steve. Is there a conversation that you wish that you had taken in a different direction or pushed a little harder on a specific story or topic?
Speaker: I wish I had pushed a little harder on Ed Beasters. And I think i I held back a little bit because of what you brought up a minute ago, Jamie, I didn't know him as well. So I didn't know where his boundaries were, but then we had a couple conversations in follow-up and he was like,
Speaker: oh no, I wish you had asked me that kind of a thing. And I was like, dang it.
Speaker: Because I, as a host, get a little scared. Like I don't want to like, you know, I don't want to send my said my guests like, you do you know, i play it put put them in a situation that makes them too uncomfortable, right? there's So yeah, i wish I had asked add a little bit more about like where,
Speaker: how he had processed these kinds of things. So well both tragedy, but also success. Like at the end is one of the stories of Ed Wiesters that i I loved so much was him talking about deciding that he was going to be leave his veterinary career and try to climb all 14, 8,000 meter peaks. And he had no sponsors, no money, no idea how to make it work.
Speaker: There was really no blueprint for becoming a professional climber in the early nineties. And he would sit in his basement in Seattle and just send out letters and cold call.
Speaker: And that takes some grit, man. Holy cow. Like just, Just put that out there to random strangers every day for months on end. like Talk about some grit. Not too many people will do that.
Speaker: And then he did it and became very successful and you know is like sponsored by Rolex and you know has all these incredible experiences and friendships because of, as a result of what he has achieved, frankly. and those handling that and staying really grounded is, is, is something that I think, frankly, mountain athletes do extremely well because we do tell your point, Alyssa, like those 10 years, mean, in Ed's case, it was more than 10 years, right? Like going through a decade and a half of becoming, you know, that's really hard work.
Speaker: And, That really kind of sums up why I care so much about uphill athlete and mountain sports is I feel like it just is this but lifelong process of building ourselves from the ground up and pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps and figuring it out and going places where there are not you know scripted answers and blazed clearly marked career paths and ending up in some amazing places and in some amazing company with some amazing people.
Speaker: And you really got that. You got that out of Ed, you know, I mean, if you, his keynotes and his Ted talks, they, they touch upon that, but you know, I liked how you call, refer to it as grit and it is, it's, it's the 10 years that Alyssa was talking about.
Speaker: It's much more interesting to hear about that than, well, how did you feel when you got the top of the last, you know, summit? So, um,
Speaker: Well, maybe you'll have to have him on again and ask all those questions that you ah you didn't ask the first time. and part two. Ed part two. Yeah, Ed was it it was great. The other one that was really great and that I really, i mean, i just love this man Rick Ridgway. Like he's one of these guys, like nobody knows about Rick.
Speaker: He wasn't the first American to climb K2 because so one of his teammates summited the day before, right? In 1978. But I mean, just a complete badass, right? Like he just done all these things.
Speaker: He doesn't need any recognition, you know, just, you know, has lived this incredible life, has an incredible family, an incredible career, right?
Speaker: It's just like, wow, that's like, you know, something to, these are really great role models, right? Like I wish i wish we had more Rick Ridgeway as an advisters.
Speaker: He is most certainly a good role model, I think. I mean, so many of your guests have such interesting lives and endearing qualities that I think make great role models.
Speaker: So what are some of the key takeaways that maybe would have resonated with us when we were younger and more brazen?
Speaker: i mean, we talked about it at the top of the podcast of how the aim of this podcast was perhaps to influence those younger 20 year olds.
Speaker: What do we think? Jamie, you have any of those moments? Corey had a ton. I think you mentioned probably you Will Gads calling people in instead of calling people out, I think is probably my, my number one one. But I think, uh, Lydia talked about, you know, after a day of climbing, you know, you learned, I think her line was you learn the most around the teapot and like, man, I wish I knew that.
Speaker: Earlier on, I mean, I like to think I learned it or a early ahead of the curve to like, listen, you know, like the end of the day, sitting around the campfire, et cetera, out on the tailgate, whatever it is, is like, that's, you know, recapping whatever you've done outdoors or with anything like that's where you learn the most lessons if you're going to, if you're willing to listen for them.
Speaker: um So I'd put that definitely towards the top of my list. One for me that I want to remember is Rick had this quote that was, I can't remember if it was a poem or something, but it was, everything is connected, everything changes, pay attention.
Speaker: And I just like, as ah as a 20 something year old, I think that that would have been, i didn't realize everything changed and I wasn't paying enough attention and I didn't think that everything was connected.
Speaker: Like, but as I get older, I'm like, yeah, that's, that's all true. That is all true. And if had somebody had told me that when I was younger, I think I would have seen it.
Speaker: I would have had the evidence for it. would have been aware of that at a younger age and that would have been beneficial for my life. I would think. I think for me, when Conrad was talking about leadership and how he said he didn't go out trying to be, didn't set out with the expectation of trying to be a leader. He just kept,
Speaker: doing the work and doing the gritty work and the the unseen work. And that's how he leads. That really yeah resonated with me and is what I hope to be.
Speaker: Like, do never forget where you've come from. Never forget that that just basic work. No one is better than anyone else. And we lead from example.
Speaker: Yeah. We haven't talked about Conrad that much yet. And he is such a manifestation of a great leader in my book. And he doesn't get recognized as as such, but he has put in the work. He has achieved the accomplishments.
Speaker: And he's, I mentioned this in the interview, like he's every ice fest I've ever been to, i see him at least three or four times over on the side showing some first time ice climber how to shop sharpen the pick of their ice axe properly, which is just a fundamental skill. And if somebody who doesn't know how to do that ah teaches you, it's, it's there's you know, maybe now you learn it on YouTube, i guess, but That's the kind of thing he's talking about, right? and And he's making a material difference in the rest of that person's climbing life by showing them this one tip.
Speaker: And that's that's real leadership, right? It's like, you know, and as we've weve we've talked about this, and he he mentioned this, like the Shipton model of leadership,
Speaker: you know, or the Shack, sorry, the Ernest Shackleton model of leadership versus the Adminton Scott model of leadership, where Scott was sort of a top down military guy and Shackleton was more of a like, you know, get down and scrub the decks with the crew guy.
Speaker: And those have, those are very different things. they'll show up very differently in society. And maybe in society, the one with the status is seen more as the leader.
Speaker: But if you're stranded in Antarctica, like you actually want to be with the Shackleton leader, not the Scott leader. And, and I think that that's really powerful.
Speaker: And one of the things that I will say that, having also attempted my best to show up in that very sort of humble way. Like if I go to a festival and I speak or something, and if I try to grab a broom and like sweep the stage, as you were talking about, like most people wouldn't let me like, but no no, no, no, no. Like they'd be like almost offended.
Speaker: And so I think, again, this goes both ways. Like if if Conrad wants to show you how to sharpen your ice tool, like by all means, allow him to do that. We have to allow people to show up that way as well as show up that way ourselves.
Speaker: Most of the time, that isn't a burden to do that. Like that is something that that person wants to do also because it's that human connection. It's that connecting with the the next generation. And also it might just be something he really likes to do, like sharpening ice toles, like a fun way to it.
Speaker: Way to just ground yourself. He strikes me as the kind of person that would much rather be sharpening the ah the ice axe than doing the public appearances and the photo shoots and stuff. But, you know, i mean, he was able to advance his sport so much because he went through that and did all of that. But he strikes me as much rather just like, give me a couple of young climbers and let's sit around and talk and let me teach you something.
Speaker: And I've seen that like really show up even internally with an uphill athlete. like If someone like you know having an illness in the family or something, and it's like, hey, you know let me coach your athletes for ah ah month or two. And you know people are like, oh, why are you doing that? It's it's not that you shouldn't be doing that. like No, well, actually – I should be doing that.
Speaker: And when I know that this is going, I'm going to be needing that time ah and then needing people to step in for me at some point, because I'm going to have something difficult to move through in my family and I might need somebody to take some of the workload off.
Speaker: And that's the kind of also you essentially, even in a business, you create a community and you do that by, you know, these kinds of actions of, of, of making sure everybody's, you know, down and working on the hard problems together.
Speaker: And that's also just mutual respect of, I know you're not doing this because you're taking advantage of me or abusing my kindness. Like you would do the same. And that's also how we improve overall.
Speaker: And I think that's the really interesting piece of mountain sports is, I mean, you can say what you will about people climbing Everest and how quote unquote easy it's getting, but it still requires a tremendous amount of hard work. Yes. Like it is not an easy thing to do.
Speaker: is not an easy thing to run a hundred miles or to bike across the country or to ice climb a really hard route or rock climb. Like you have to put the work in.
Speaker: yeah There are no shortcuts to that. And I think that's something, yeah, society really could learn from mountain sports. And I learned that exact lesson from my mountain guiding career because, you know, I guided on Denali, for example, many times.
Speaker: And for me, during the years when I was really strong, it was it was super easy. Like, it was literally a walk in the park, assuming the weather was good.
Speaker: But I also had clients who it was like, absolutely stretch them to the absolute limit of themselves mentally and physically. And watched that, helped them, right?
Speaker: And so I couldn't come away from those experiences and just be like, oh, I'm better than they are. It was like, well, actually, they worked a heck of a lot harder for that than I did. Like,
Speaker: I didn't really hardly work at all. I just kind of went for a stroll with IPAC. Wasn't a big deal. These people, like, they dug deep. And so the the measure of success is not the objective summit, like but Denali is 20,320 feet tall Everest is it is. don't even know.
Speaker: ah ninety meters or whatever it is i don't even know the The objective measure is like, you know, how hard that person have to try and how much did they have to grow to do that?
Speaker: That's what's important. And it's like more of a more of an individual basis. And we don't have a measure for that. Right. Like there is no objective measure for that. you know So, I mean, that's why, like, you know, you look at a ah sport like the Tour de France and, you know, Jonas Winnegard is so loved because he's got this, you know, he's got Pogacar out there just like looking like he's out for a Sunday afternoon, you know, bike ride.
Speaker: And he's just, you know, bleeding to literally and figuratively to hang on this guy's wheel. And it's like, that's super inspiring, right? Like Pogacar, sort of like, man, that guy's just so gifted that you know, it's almost not that inspiring.
Speaker: It's almost not that exciting to watch. But like watching Jonas, like, work that hard and like, and, and actually give him a run for his money. It's like, you can't help but root for the guy and can't help but like, be like, wow, that is, that is amazing. Like, that's what sport like really enriches, you know, as a, as a, just an observer for me, my life when I'm watching, watching those kinds of races and and those kinds of champions.
Speaker: Absolutely. There's a couple of ultra runners Zach Miller one that comes to mind where he just runs from the front the entire time and he looks like he's going to die at any second.
Speaker: And you're like, but he's still doing it. He's still doing it. And ah my mental training coach has said, this is what winning feels like. And winning can mean a lot of things, but it's like when you are in that ugly moment of just like gritting your teeth and you can't even think straight because you push so hard it's like yeah that's what giving your best feels like and that's beautiful and amazing and powerful and I think it's so inspiring to see in others as well because sometimes like you can't see it in yourself you can feel it but you can't see it yeah I knew the three of us could have our own podcast
Speaker: series as well. to bring it back though, any last thoughts or reflections you'd like to leave the audience with either about this season or things you want to take into the next season before we wrap up with just a fun little segment?
Speaker: Well, I would personally... love to hear what people want to hear about and how they want us to build from here because it's really, frankly, unclear as to where will we'll go from here.
Speaker: And this is going to surprise you too, but I'm not 100%, I'm 90%, I'd say, convinced that we need to do a season two, but I'm not 100% convinced. Like it has to be really compelling because frankly, it's a lot of work ah and ah has to be really valuable to people.
Speaker: And we have to be making a meaningful impact. to And this is not our core business, right? We're a bunch of coaches and, and you know, we help people through that skill set.
Speaker: And this is more of a creative exploration that hopefully is helpful to to others. And I feel like it's a conversation currently doesn't have a home right now in our community.
Speaker: So I'd love to hear where people would like us to take it. I have some of my own ideas, but... those outside perspectives are always so valuable. For me, what's what's kind of where my curiosity is going to to seed the seed the pot a little bit, or or I'm missing the metaphor, but to to prime the pump a little bit, where my mind is going is trying to connect
Speaker: you know, mountain sports and the lessons more concretely, if you will, to other aspects of quote unquote success in life, whether it's, you know, and there's like, that could be like success in something like entrepreneurship. It could be success in something like a spiritual path. It could be success.
Speaker: and maybe that's like Maybe that's an oxymoron. But it could be success in family any life or personal development and try to connect.
Speaker: you know I think that there's there's a lot of richness ah there for for discussion um that is also kind of timeless. And you know part of what i said in the beginning was I wanted to, and I i'm will admit I myself do not know what this means, but I said that I wanted to try to develop a philosophy of the mountains.
Speaker: And I literally don't know what that means, but I know that it means like, understanding the value and the purpose and the, and I guess the point of, of doing what we do in the mountains and, and not just in the mountains, but around the tea kettle and in the training sessions and in the discussions with our coaches and, you know, this whole ecosystem.
Speaker: And yeah, I think that there's a lot of richness and in those threads. For me, coming from a little bit of a younger generation being 31, just yeah so many times i was like, I'm not alone. Like, here is another person who has gone through these aspects of what it means to be a human.
Speaker: And sometimes when I'm kind of caught in the middle of these moments that perhaps have been weathered in one way or another by the the guests that you've talked to, was just like, oh man, i I'm not unique.
Speaker: And there's a lot of comfort in that. I mean, I think that's part of perhaps why we stand on mountains is because we feel so small and that can feel comforting in the inverse way that it seems.
Speaker: And so, so often it was just, it felt like the guests lined up so often with exactly the moment I needed to hear the messages that they said. And that was really powerful.
Speaker: So I'm appreciative just of what was shared and hearing from just incredible mentors. It was like getting a personal mentorship lesson in so many of them.
Speaker: I think I like that you bring up stand on top of the mountains because one of the things that I think is interesting to think about is when we stand in the valley and we look up at the mountain, especially before, but also after it looks so huge.
Speaker: And when we stand on top of the mountain, we look down, everything looks so small. Right. And it's so interesting. I think that, you know,
Speaker: A lot of these people we talked to were had been both standing in a lot of valleys and standing on a lot of summits in many different ways. And one of the commonalities of these experiences is to not be overwhelmed by the initial initial impact of that first view of that giant mountain.
Speaker: like I will use Nanga Parbat as an example, which I climbed many years ago. And it's literally the biggest mountain massif in the world, both by volume and it goes from like where the one side is at the river, it's at 3000 feet and the summit is almost 27,000 feet.
Speaker: And so it's it's the biggest mountain in the world by all those measures. And if you stand there, I mean, it really looks incomprehensible. Like it's absolutely incomprehensible And yet I stood up there on the top and looked down and everything looked small.
Speaker: And, you know, so all too often we get overwhelmed by that initial view of anything in life that is worth doing because everything that's worth doing is probably difficult.
Speaker: And, you know, that, taking that first step and finding that first bit of agency, you know, that's, you know, what, what Lydia was talking about. Ed talked about it.
Speaker: Conrad talked about it Corey definitely talked about it. You know, that was, that is such a ah great lesson and something I wish I had learned a lot younger. We are going to wrap up with our last segment, which is superlatives. So Steve, putting you on the spot,
Speaker: Who would you most like to go swing dancing with? Lydia. I knew that answer right away. Love it. Who is most likely to chug a gallon of maple syrup?
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: Berry. Oh, okay.
Speaker: Who would make the best cup of coffee? I probably know the answer to that. It's Vince. Okay. Who would you bring with you to a Nerf gunfight?
Speaker: I think Sasha. I think she's really, really tough. I think she stumped you. She's really, really tough. Maybe Nerf gunfight isn't the the tough thing that you'd think of, but um I think that she would be really focused and she wouldn't back down. She wouldn't be afraid.
Speaker: Love it. Who would you run a hundred miles with? Oh, man.
Speaker: I don't know if any of our guests were runners. We'll say, okay, who would you spend like 20 hours with? Yeah. Well, you know, can I answer the same gap person more than once?
Speaker: Sure. Because i I think it would be Vince because, you know, he's obviously a person I've done lots of things like that with and and he's probably the closest to an ultra runner of all the all the guests.
Speaker: And you would have music to listen to the whole time. You'd have great music too. Last two, who would you like to invite to Thanksgiving? All of them. Yeah. That would be the coolest Thanksgiving ever.
Speaker: Have like all 10 of those guests around a big table and give them all a bunch of wine and then see what happens. so That would be a whole podcast season right there. That'd be amazing. I will say that of the guests that you've spoken with, ah at least one of them was on my list of who would you invite to, you know, the common thing of like, oh, if you could invite three people to a meal, who would it be?
Speaker: oh And yeah. was yes Jimmy Chin. Jimmy. yeah Yeah. I mean, all of them would be amazing. Yeah. But Jimmy is kind of the one originally.
Speaker: And the last one. who would you challenge to a hot dog eating contest?
Speaker: Uh, well, that means that if I want to win, yeah, a yeah it couldn't be will cause I've seen will eat. Everybody thinks he's skinny, but that guy can put it down.
Speaker: yeah I mean, Ed is a good eater. You have to be good eater to climb 8,000 meter peaks. You know, Barry, he would probably beat me. ah Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Rick Ridgeway. I don't think he would get too far with the dogs.
Speaker: Well, thank you all for listening to this episode. And Steve, do you want to close us out? It's not just one, but a community. Thank you for listening to Uphill Athlete Podcast, and we'll see you in season two.
Speaker: You heard it here, folks. I guess it's happening. Thanks, everyone.
Speaker: the Voice of the Mountains is a production of Uphill Athlete Incorporated. Our producer is Alyssa Clark. Sound engineering and editing is done by Christoph Lukaser.
Speaker: Voice of the Mountains is scripted and hosted by me, Steve House, with research and writing help from Jamie Lyko. Thank you for listening to Voice of the Mountains.
