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A Family Affair: Hilary Spires on Running the HURT 100 image

A Family Affair: Hilary Spires on Running the HURT 100

S6 E13 · Uphill Athlete Podcast
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4.2k Plays11 days ago

In this episode, host Alyssa Clark sits down with trail runner, podcaster, and coach Hilary Spires to discuss her journey to the HURT 100, just nine months after giving birth. Hilary shares the challenges of postpartum recovery and balancing training with her family. She opens up about the physical and mental struggles she faced during the race, including a rib injury and battling the sleep monster. Hilary finished strong in fourth place, proving her resilience and determination. Tune in for an inspiring conversation on Hilary’s journey postpartum and how she made it possible to train for hard things with a family.

Check out Trail Running Women Podcast on all podcast platforms! You can also see more of what Hilary is up to on instagram at @hilsport55 or @trailrunningwomenpod

Write to us at coach@uphillathlete.com or visit uphillathlete.com to learn more about our coaching, training plans and memberships.  


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Transcript

Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today. I'm psyched to have my good friend, ah podcaster, amazing runner, mom, coach, wife,
00:00:30
Speaker
Tennis player, hockey player, all the things. Hilary Spires on. ah She is the Trail Running Woman podcast host, which I highly recommend checking out that podcast.
00:00:43
Speaker
And Hilary and i just ran her together. So she's here to talk about her experiences and some, you know, fun twists that kind of came along the way, we'll say.
00:00:56
Speaker
Totally. Well, thank you so much for that lovely introduction. And I was just saying before the show, I'm nervous to be on this side of it. But ah yeah, excited to get into things too. So thanks for having me.
00:01:07
Speaker
Of course. Yeah.

Pregnancy and Postpartum Experiences

00:01:09
Speaker
It's so we've done a lot of episodes together, which has been super fun. But I think this is the first time I've really turned the tables on you. So I would say. Yeah, totally.
00:01:19
Speaker
Let's. Yeah. Well, I would say that the biggest twist is that you had a baby nine months before her. So we are going to really get into um your pregnancy journey and also postpartum leading into the race. But I'd love for you to just tell the listeners a little bit about your background and um how you found yourself into ultras and at the starting line of hurt.
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I mean, um i am going to make a disclaimer that we are going to talk about the postpartum and it's a lot of different information out there. And I just don't want anybody to hear this. I did a race recap and I said the same thing and think,
00:02:00
Speaker
Okay, I'm just going to listen to what she said and and apply it to my own postpartum journey because it's super personal. And there's a lot of aspects you can control, but there's a lot of aspects that you can't.

Athletic Journey and Family Life

00:02:12
Speaker
And that um like birth is a trauma on your body. And like any injury has to be given the appropriate time to heal. And some tissues heal faster than others. no matter how athletic you are or how strong of a runner you are, and that it doesn't always go hand in hand. And again, yes, there are things you can do, but it's, I think, just really important. The only takeaway is work with your own doctor.
00:02:37
Speaker
pelvic floor therapist, ideally, um for your own for your own body. And so same as like, you don't have, i don't I didn't listen to anybody else's timeline. I worked with my own doctors. And i just think that's super important to say because I know a lot of even sub three marathoners that ended up with prolapse and things down the road, because again, it doesn't equate like, oh, I'm this level of runner, therefore I'll heal this fast. It's a totally different ball game. And can get more into that. But I just want to make that disclaimer.
00:03:06
Speaker
um Personally, i was a hockey player in the NCAA when I was younger and then I got into a variety of other sports and I always just needed that kind of drive for competition and to push myself and ah Running is fun.
00:03:22
Speaker
But then one day I went to a trail race and I was like, oh I'm never doing anything else in my life ever. um i don't want to slam road running. So road running is great. But then you go into the mountains and especially up here in the Pacific Northwest. i was just like, whoa, this is my life now.
00:03:37
Speaker
And that was over a decade ago, I think. And since then, I've had two children. My oldest son is five. He's called Baker after Baker Mountain. Big skiing family of it. um And then my second one is, yeah, nine months now.
00:03:51
Speaker
ah We call him Veds. He's named Vedder, not after Eddie, but like doesn't hurt that he Eddie Vedder is awesome. But there's also a mountain called Vedder Mountain. And I have had hurt on my bucket list forever.
00:04:04
Speaker
and I think I just sort of thought when I started running again, like maybe this is the year because Canada does get a year for mat leave. And it's the type of race where I could carry him up mountains or we could do stroller runs together. And it felt very like family friendly to train for this race.
00:04:22
Speaker
ah So I put my name in the lottery and then it actually came out on my oldest son's birthday. So I didn't look at. the Yeah, i wasn't looking at the ah ah list right away. And then I got a text from you that was like, you're 14th on the wait list. That's guaranteed you're you're in. And I was like, oh, shoot.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, uh-oh. Yeah, it's getting very real. Yeah, I mean, that's I love that. And also I should caveat that the Hurt 100 is the Hawaii ultra running team 100. It's 100 miler in Hawaii. It's rocky, rooty.
00:05:01
Speaker
It's supposedly one of the top 10 hardest hundreds in the world. That's. I never know how much I put into those lists, but it has been listed like multiple times ah

Postpartum Recovery and Social Pressures

00:05:12
Speaker
within that. So it definitely fits. I feel like your wheelhouse of super techie stuff. um But yeah, I mean, i'd be curious how you have found the dialogue either changing or feeling like you need to really
00:05:34
Speaker
advocate for yourself with your doctors and kind of going into, hey I want to take on this big challenge nine months out. Like, how have you felt that has hopefully evolved over the years. Yeah.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah. but it It is interesting that my children are five years apart as well. So I did get to experience it the first time. And then again, um the second time, and I will say the second time you're a little more like, I understand the process now. Um, the first time the studies were just coming out that said, hold on, it's not six weeks, it's 12 weeks.
00:06:07
Speaker
Um, And one pelvic floor therapist explained it to me like this. Nothing magical happens at six weeks at midnight. That's like, you're ready, nor at 12 weeks.
00:06:18
Speaker
And but with Baker, I had started running quite soon after. My midwife had said it was fine. And then i was talking on social media about like, oh, it's so nice to run again. And like without ah being pregnant. And I did get a little bit of...
00:06:37
Speaker
mild shaming backlog of, or pushback of like, oh, you know, i had an um this other runner having an uncomplicated birth and like, you're not supposed to run before 12 weeks. Like it's super dangerous and you could be doing harm and like, you shouldn't be promoting that. And I was like, okay, that's not what I meant to do at all.
00:06:56
Speaker
Um, But I hadn't seen a pelvic floor therapist. So basically, I just felt very undereducated. ah And then I saw pelvic floor therapists and they were talking about how where my specific strength was at and that there was still work to be done. And like a return to run program could have been a bit gentler.
00:07:14
Speaker
in general. um And it it all ended up fine. It was just really interesting to get into that space and feel like nobody knows what the answer is here. And I felt very kind of alone. And then with my second son, I knew that what I needed was a very athletic pelvic floor therapist that could understand me as an individual instead of um tissues in a petri dish deciding how long it should be because that's what the studies are done on, right? Is it takes 12 weeks for these tissues to heal in a lab.
00:07:44
Speaker
Don't quote me. This is what I was told, right? So everything with discretion. And
00:07:51
Speaker
She was a lot more, i think, willing because I had said, well, I was pregnant. This is what I want to do. And she could tell right away when I was like, this is my weekly mileage pregnant and this is the strength training I'm doing. She's like, OK, we're going to get your baseline strength now. I'll be able to test it again after you have the baby and we'll talk about how the birth went. And there's so many details like how long were you in each stage for? Yeah.
00:08:14
Speaker
what sort of damage was done after? Were there any tools needed? And there's just so many little aspects that it was like, the key was having this pelvic floor therapist understand my body exactly.
00:08:27
Speaker
And one part when talked about previously the controllables is that she knew my baseline of fitness going into the birth. So she's like, your tissues didn't detrain to zero.
00:08:40
Speaker
Like you stayed straight. So they were able to heal back up at above zero. So you can put more load on and earlier on, if that makes any sense.
00:08:51
Speaker
um So I found working with her and just being more confident in my own journey and being like, I don't, and in social media has changed since then too. We're like, I don't really care what somebody else says about what I'm doing. I'm definitely not trying to tell anybody else to do anything, but I don't care what anybody says about my body either because it's mine.
00:09:09
Speaker
ah Though people think when you're pregnant, it's theirs.
00:09:14
Speaker
well lost of that one
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah. do and me that make yeah Yeah. You know, I do hope that we have come a bit further in that regard. i think I remember that you got a ton of pushback for doing a pretty short race during your first pregnancy.
00:09:35
Speaker
Right. doing just not Like the gross grind. Sorry to that up. But I know, no, that was totally fine. The shaming during pregnancy was when I i was expecting that. I wasn't expecting the postpartum.
00:09:47
Speaker
But um I mean, it wasn't that short. It was the gross grind, but it was how many times you could do it in a day. So I did seven and I was eight months pregnant. So it was like pretty close to the same elevation of hurt.
00:09:59
Speaker
Um, but, uh, is you're like walking. So it was fine. And my midwives again, we're like, Oh yeah, not a problem for you. My heart rate got to like 115 on the whole day. So it wasn't, wasn't an issue. But the other thing I did afterwards was just worked with,
00:10:16
Speaker
three different doctors that didn't know about each other just to get assessments, just so that I could be like, if there's anything that I need to be aware of here, somebody's probably gonna catch it.

Balancing Family and Running Goals

00:10:26
Speaker
um And there's all this thing, like right after you have your baby where,
00:10:31
Speaker
there are so many hormones and so much fear and things aren't exactly the same as they were before. And you go through this panic. And I ended up did finding this group of really good runners actually that ended up with trauma from birth that will impact their running forever. So a huge part of it, I'm thankful that I did just get lucky. And it's, you know, some of them were in a place where they were having so much pain from certain people,
00:10:55
Speaker
injuries that they were like, I would have elected for a C-section. So there's just so many avenues that it can take that, yeah, I just don't want to speak for anybody, but my experience, I guess I'll say again.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's super important. And i also, knowing you and kind of watching it, like the whole time you said like, yes, this is my goal, but really it seemed like just a great way to kind of like treat and spend time with your family and like have this this thing that, yes, it's out there, but you always seemed very willing to be like, yeah, but that they might just not work this year and that's okay.
00:11:39
Speaker
Totally. Yeah. And I think like, that's what was kind of fun about both of our like journeys to her is yours was so dialed in to do this at like such an aggressive pace and was so fun to see. And then the flip side of it is like, yeah, coming in from the other angle. That's like, this is a goal that essentially my whole family is working towards because obviously my husband had to be involved in certain childcare.
00:12:02
Speaker
And if it doesn't work for us, like the race isn't going anywhere. i can still try to get in the next year. ah you know, I'm getting older, but I'm not ancient. I can run this for many more years. So just being totally gentle on that aspect that like, this is fun, but it's okay if it doesn't. So yeah, and that's exactly right.
00:12:23
Speaker
Yeah, but i mean, you I loved seeing that, but also, i mean, you worked hard. Like you put some big weeks and we're training hard. So I'd love to hear from kind birth to A, the point that you found out you're going to hurt. Like what did that kind of piece look like as you were building back into running?
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah. So I remember the first day that I went for a run, I ran 3K, which is like a mile and a bit. And just was like, do I have any pain? Do things feel okay? And this was July.
00:13:01
Speaker
so if you think you're like maybe running 3K and then what's that? Seven months later, you're going to run one of the hardest hundred milers. Like it's a bit... big.
00:13:11
Speaker
um But everything felt great. And I was doing all of the strength training to regain pelvic floor strength leading into that. And because my baseline of fitness wasn't at zero, the one benefit that that came into was i went for a jog with some friends, I think two weeks after that, that was like,
00:13:32
Speaker
12 miles and it felt fine. So it was like, that's kind of where my base went down to. Now, that being said, I would not have ran 12 miles on the road, but we live in terrain. That's a lot like the hurt terrain where there's a lot of power hiking. And then there's some like scooting on your butt down. So you're covering the distance, but you're not just like pounding, pounding, pounding.
00:13:52
Speaker
Uh, so in that sense, it was really lucky. And then i built up to the day before we could enter the lottery, which I think was end of July. Yeah. And then when you find out, excuse me, you enter, yeah, end of July, you find out end of August.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah. So I went out and just like ran 30K and was like, if this feels okay, I'm going to put my name in and it felt great. And then I put my name in. And so like, that is all a little bit crazy and risky, but that's what I do. And that's what happened.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean, yes and no like I think that it's, and again, I'm speaking to this of not having a kid, having never been through that, but as an athlete, literally your job is to be tuned into your body yeah and to know like yourself. And so i think that it's like, just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you've forgotten like all of that that work that we do to be tuned into that.
00:14:56
Speaker
That is such a great point. And that comes into play like postpartum and pregnant where you're like, have I pushed too far? Am I, do I mean, yeah I guess with any injury, is this something that isn't okay? Or am I just hungry or short on electrolytes? Because sometimes they all feel the same, right?

Training for the Hurt 100

00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, yeah touch, you can tell like, okay, pull it back or have a snack.
00:15:22
Speaker
ah Yes. I mean, that could be true for any anyone. and So, okay. You're at that point. You decide, Hey, I'm going to put in for the lottery. We'll see what happens. You essentially get in because you're in off the wait list.
00:15:37
Speaker
How do you then start thinking about it? Were you working with a coach at that point? are you like, okay, I want to get a coach on board. Like, how did that look? Yeah, totally. So i know Gary Robbins. I'm pretty good friends with his wife, Linda. And obviously he's had the male course record for a long time.
00:15:56
Speaker
um But the one thing I knew about him was that he would kind of understand me as an athlete. So I've worked with coaches before that are just naturally very fast. And not that he's not obviously naturally very fast, but that there's like my style of running is a bit more of like a grinder, basically, right? Like just a hard worker, not necessarily like a super fast runner.
00:16:20
Speaker
runner naturally. And I sort of liked that kind of match. And he understood exactly what I was talking about. And so I messaged him and it was like, Hey, this going to seem crazy. I have a four month old, but I would like to run hurt in five months. Like, what do you think? And he was like, okay.
00:16:38
Speaker
ah So we had our initial call and I answered the phone and he's like 18 weeks till race day. And I was like, Oh shit, sorry, pardon my language, but like, no, go for it.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah. And I think because he knew a bit about me beforehand, um, kind of knew like, okay, we can sort of throw the kitchen sink and see what happens. And for the first time, and I say this in my recent race recap as well, I looked at the three week plan ahead and was like,
00:17:05
Speaker
I don't know if I can do this. And I liked that level of fear. And on the baby side, it was super complicated because I had to say in my plan three weeks out, these are the days I can do long runs. I can't do back to backs. I have one day a week that I can get to technical trails.
00:17:22
Speaker
Everything else is going to have to be road. And the things are going to get messy because of the kids. And ah yeah, their whole team was great with that. So I would have one day a week where I had to go to the trails, which are about 45 minute drive, but it meant that I got up at 4am pumped milk, which is the worst had coffee,
00:17:42
Speaker
and then went, did the run, pumped milk on the way home and tried to get home before school pickup. And then every other run was at like a ridiculous time in the morning. Or if my son had soccer at like 9 AM, m I would just run around until I ran to a soccer game and live in the next town, which is like seven, or eight miles away um for a total of like 20 miles. But then you're done at 9 AM. And the only issue is you're not going home to recover. Then you're, you're parenting to insane children. um So it worked, but I will not say it was easy nor uncomplicated.
00:18:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's wild. Your training was so much harder than mine. Mine was like, oh, well, you know, like...
00:18:28
Speaker
I'll 11, maybe 1 p.m. You know, if I'm tired, or you know, whatever. Yeah. So like, so, so impressed as I knew. but yeah, even more impressed hearing you say that.
00:18:40
Speaker
So what did the and again, like this is just Hillary's experience. This is not meant to be a blueprint, which is why I'm like almost most hesitant to ask you.
00:18:51
Speaker
But I guess like what hours wise did that look like, say, um In October, where were you for hours per week and then building into kind of your peak week?
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah. um Let's have a quick peek because I don't know. was a while. With... with Everything. I was always between 15 and 20 hours a week because my cross-tree was... Nice. Okay.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah. So here's the thing. That sounds insane, but like you were talking before, if you're a lifelong athlete, my world sort of revolves around movement.
00:19:32
Speaker
And that's why getting back to running or exercising in general was so important to me, partly because that's how I play with my kids as well. So it wouldn't look like a really solid four-hour run. It would look like...
00:19:45
Speaker
two hours in the morning before anybody's awake and then come home, help with breakfast. And then my son really likes to run to school. It's only a mile, but I would put his backpack on my back, run him to school. And then I would run home with a little extra or something like that, and then go hike with the baby. So it's like, I couldn't tell you what the pretendage of that was without kids, but a large part of it was, ah with them too. So,
00:20:12
Speaker
it doesn't sound as challenging as it actually is when you include them all, I guess. Yeah, but that, I mean, what a cool way to do that. Also Baker's, I'm waiting for him to get his contract because he's either being like crew captain or yeah youngest ultra runner.
00:20:30
Speaker
He is awesome. yeah i love what if I love seeing the the photos and videos. What other cross training did you other than running?
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. So strength is really important to me. And obviously like the pelvic floor and the core really had to come back for this. So we have a gym in our garage, which again is ah super lucky just time-wise. So during nap time, stuff like that.
00:20:55
Speaker
And I am not on like a big set program. I like to try to get strong in strange positions. So sometimes I just like would pick up a kettlebell and... see like if I'm on one leg with instability, like where do I get stuck with range of motion and things like that?
00:21:11
Speaker
um More functional type stuff like that. And then also just like my husband and i would dress a bar, not that heavy, like 75 pounds or something, and just do like five power cleans every time we walk by or or something fun like that. So it's sort of mixed into the day.
00:21:26
Speaker
um But then just a lot of tennis, which probably has nothing to do with running, but I love it. No, first off, I love that that's you and your husband's idea of fun.
00:21:38
Speaker
That's amazing. That's weird. No, but i I actually, okay, this is really interesting because my guess is... that Because you had to run more on the road just suit to suit a family, that that tennis footwork helped you a ton.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, probably just quick likelution motion, agility. Exactly. And also just having the ankle, both like mobility and strength. Yeah, like to if that may they always seem like kind of opposing, but it's like you have to have an ankle that's flexible enough, excuse me, to deal with the variations in the tureen. But you also can't have it too flexible that it just rolls all the time. So it's like a weirdly stiff, flexible ankle that doesn't make any sense. But it totally does because it's it actually pertains to postpartum because i don't know if you know this, you have a hormone in your body for a very long time called relaxin.
00:22:32
Speaker
So so funny. Yeah. most fabric I know, right? Everything just like flops over and then comes back and you're like, oh, that should have felt worse than it did.
00:22:43
Speaker
ah So yeah, that all comes into play. And then I think just as we kind of alluded to, I'm just so lucky that my entire running career has been on this completely rugged, horrible terrain. Like I don't think if I was from say California running on buff trails that I could have a adapted to the hurt terrain. I think your feet would get beat up. Like so I just, it would have been much harder, but because of my whole background is doing that, I think it made it work a little bit.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think totally, totally. How long does the relaxant stay in your system? And do you feel like you were pretty much like kind of, I hate to say back to normal, but like back to kind of whatever that normal is before the race?
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, I don't actually know. I know it's at least six months, maybe longer, and then it's not like it just disappears. right So I don't know how long it stays in, but I know it's a significantly longer time postpartum than I had been expecting because of my experience with Baker. But the back to normal thing is so hard, too, because...
00:23:47
Speaker
That's not not possible. yeah And then I also remember with Baker, it was COVID and my friend Katie and I did some FKTs when he was one. And I remember thinking like, oh, I'm really fit.
00:23:59
Speaker
I'm back. And then two or three years later being like, I wasn't even close. It actually took two or three years. So um that's why I want to go back to hurt as well, because it's like that was probably as close to as fit as I could get in, um,
00:24:14
Speaker
I guess, eight and a half months. No. Yeah. He was almost nine months. Anyways, whatever around that. Uh, but probably it will take another year at least because you get like, as you know, with any endurance training, you can't just rush it. Right.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah. I'm super excited for you to go back because just hearing all of the variables that you had going into it and how well it still went. And I feel like Well, we'll touch on that as well. But yeah, I'm excited. yeah There's so much upside.
00:24:45
Speaker
Like, it's kind of insane. um How did you deal with breastfeeding and keeping up with the caloric needs of, you pretty high volume training?
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, I ate a lot. I ate a lot. And... Excuse me. basically just high fat foods all the time. And it was it was good because sometimes I, because you can get away with a long run sometimes without eating enough.
00:25:13
Speaker
Just lack of preparation and being lazy. Sometimes I would, and that is not gonna work because you can get away with it for five hours. You can't get away with it for 20 something hours. So um it might've helped with the training with that too. But then I just, I'm not normally a huge breakfast person, but I started to be, and then just a lot more nuts, high fat,
00:25:34
Speaker
like dense stuff and again that was something i knew from baker like that it's gonna feel pretty crazy and it definitely did because there was a point where i think i was eating like 4 000 calories in a day and like still losing weight oh geez this is crazy that's wild yeah i can imagine you'd need ah ton of calories i mean i need a ton of calories not trying to keep ah human alive.

Race Preparations and Challenges

00:25:58
Speaker
Um, so were you breastfeeding during hurt or kind of like, when did that stop or keep going or how did you handle that? So I to, I, um, to pump at the aid stations or feed him a little bit at the aid stations and around eight months, he actually weaned himself, which was a huge surprise because I had planned to go. Amazing.
00:26:24
Speaker
um I mean, you feel a bit rejected, but, um, he was, i found out, and I don't know if this was the, this is kind of a weird story, but he got teeth very early. He ended up being like a little bit physically advanced, um, both the way he would grow and then his walking and being totally insane, but he had teeth and he bit me super, super hard and I pumped and the bottle was full of blood. Like it was dark red.
00:26:52
Speaker
And so I guess they can break something like deeper inside. And I don't know if it was really bad taste for him then. And he wasn't like, he remembered that or what, but it was basically the next day after the bite and the bleeding that he just, i couldn't get him to eat anymore. And I was like, you know what, as much as I like really wanted to keep going, it's also eight months of basically only breast milk and then a little bit of solids. Still, I felt like I did a lot for him. So that,
00:27:21
Speaker
ended up being a lot easier on the actual race and also worked out because he started taking steps around eight months, which if you have kids, it's like a little bit early just because they're kind of dumb and like walking into walls and into tables. And he started to get night terrors and wake up in the night. And there's a time change in Hawaii that would have made that like 1 a.m. m And we were staying this tiny little Airbnb. And my husband one day was like, i think the baby and I should stay home.
00:27:49
Speaker
And... At first I was like, no, I can't, I'm not getting the finish line and not having him there. And my husband was supposed to pace me for a loop. But the more we thought about it, like this baby, and I have a crazy boy already. This second boy is so wild that we were like, man, a six hour flight as well, where he doesn't have a seat. Like you've got to hold him and he doesn't want to be held.
00:28:12
Speaker
um And then keeping the whole family up, we were just like, maybe more stress than it's worth. And like, he would just eat sand at the beach. Um, So it it worked out. We decided to pull the plug and in a ah flip side, it was really nice because when you have your second kid, your first kid goes from being like everything, all your relationship, just to being with him to having to share you. So it was also really fun for Baker and I to go have that time because there is a five year difference. He remembers that.
00:28:41
Speaker
um So it was really fun for us to have our like little vacation as well. So My parents were coming, so they hung out with the older kid during the race, but it all worked out great. And the race was so fun and the vibe was so great that we can all go back next year. So beds will get to come.
00:28:54
Speaker
Love it. And it's going happen and I'll be there to help. but But yeah. And Baker got the best Hawaiian outfit. Is he still wearing it? Well, it's really cold at home, but he's like on a hanger with the lei and everything. So yeah, he will be, he'll be ready to go. But he talks about Hawaii every day. He's like, we got to go back.
00:29:14
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Yeah. So let's kind of touch training, all of that piece. How did you feel going into the race?
00:29:26
Speaker
um Physically, you had a couple of other things pop up. And then, yeah, let's get into how it went. Yeah. So, I mean, training went amazingly well up until two weeks before race day when I got a taper injury and I went to do like a bit heavy vert day yeah, less running and my calf like blew up worse than it's ever been before. And I couldn't figure it out. And,
00:29:53
Speaker
I sort of knew like it's going to be fine, but also I didn't run for maybe 10 days leading in. Like I actually couldn't run a step, which is very uncomforting and I don't know if that's a word, but that's what it felt like. I ended up probably with four IMS appointments.
00:30:11
Speaker
Um, and every time I saw like dry needling, every time I saw a different physio, they'd be like, what did you do? Like the muscle spasm was so intense. Then I got prolotherapy in my ankle and my knee. ah we don't need get one in to get into what that is, but it does work for me.
00:30:25
Speaker
And your calf sits in the middle of these two like hinges. Right. So it takes a lot of, um, The impact. So once those kind of healed up, then I got two more massages and some last IMS. And it wasn't until about three days before, like really when we left that I started to get to say like a two out of 10 pain.
00:30:43
Speaker
And then magically on race day, it didn't bother me at all, which is crazy. love it. Canada Post was on strike and we didn't have our kids passports until like a week before we left. So that was stressful.
00:30:56
Speaker
um So all of these little things kept happening. And then once we got to Hawaii though, everything was, was pretty perfect. um The only issue, well, two issues, I have one physical issue with a rib, but then because of the time change, my son woke up like the day before race day at 4am and was like,
00:31:15
Speaker
I'm ready. and I was like, can we go back to sleep for a bit? And he's like, no. So we went down to the beach. i think I texted you too. Like, this is not good. And the waves were huge. So he body surfed for like probably two hours and I sat in the sand, but every once in a while i was like, you're going to drown. And I had to like run across sand and like pull them out of water.
00:31:36
Speaker
ah It wasn't super restful, but it was as good as it could be. And then the race was awesome. Yeah, well, I'm like, you know, going on my 20 or 30 minute easy shakeout run. You're like, yeah, I've been doing beach sprints, you knowynphoria like know, come on.
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, though, I feel like when, please don't, when I say this, everyone don't freak out. But when you do have a high level of fitness, sometimes, like, I think it can be detrimental if you shut it off too much. So probably like waking your body up. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:15
Speaker
I think it helps. Like I added in an extra little run day during my taper. Cause I was like, I just kind of need to move. I feel like I'm feeling worse because of this.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah. And I think to get to your point earlier about being so in tune with your body. I also played tennis on the Thursday before with him, um which is a lot of chasing down balls because he's five, but I feel like I kind of know the activity I'm in and where I'm getting to, like how tired and how that's going to feel 12 hours later. And like kind of consciously on like, this is enough output that it's going to be completely topped up again, recovery wise in 13 hours or 14 hours, or like in the case of Friday, like knowing, okay, 24 hours from now, this isn't dipping into my energy reserves yet.
00:33:02
Speaker
know what mean? Totally. Yeah. And I think again, it's, it just goes back to, uh, Another reason why I think endurance sports in particular, I mean, any sport, ah so much comes down to years of experience where it's just like, how well do you know yourself? How well can you handle what comes up and just have that confidence?
00:33:25
Speaker
um So, yeah, let's get to race day You're lining up how it's a five loop. It's not really they're out backs race.

Race Strategy and Mental Focus

00:33:35
Speaker
How do the first couple of loops go for you?
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I was little bit nervous because, I mean, the talk even before the race was like, whoa, the women's field is really good. I mean, they were kind of doing those shout-outs before the race.
00:33:54
Speaker
I love them so much, but the whole killing time where they're, like, actively naming people in the race is like, maybe I'll just talk about how pretty it is. Yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
So, I mean... You were there and I was telling everybody like, oh, I'm so stoked. My friend's probably going to break the record. Like I was stoked on that. But historically, when you look at the times, if you're a competitive person, like, okay, so disclaimer, the whole thing is, can I get ready to run a hundred miler in nine months? But then training starts to go well and I'm pretty competitive. And it's like looking at the times,
00:34:31
Speaker
from previous years and then it's like, hmm, actually, how well can I do in this race? And like that started to percolate in my mind and like gain traction. So then all of a sudden it's like, who else is there? Like what what's this going to look like?
00:34:47
Speaker
um And I was kind of thinking like- And this we're friends. Because I was like, because I would start, up i at first it was like, Oh, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna race, you know, it's gonna be so great, the whole family. And then I get texts that were like, wow, what about this girl? What about that girl? What about this time? And I was like, oh she's in it. Like the competitive nature. You're too competitive not to. And I love that.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah. but Sorry, go ahead. No, and that's always the fun part of it. I think I said in my recap race recap too, the Friday before the race, 100 times worse than the actual race. Like I will take physical pain over the like anxiety of looking around the room and being like, she looks fast. She looks fast. Okay.
00:35:29
Speaker
All of the women looked so fit. um So fast. It was insane. Yeah. It was insane. And they all had like full body Lycra, like suits on. And then there's you and you're like leopard print pants. And I was like, this is funny. i didn't know you. I would never be worried, but like tables will turn.
00:35:46
Speaker
ah yeah like Everybody looked super fit. And then they start doing that naming thing. And there's three people that have been there.
00:35:58
Speaker
And they've all been on the podium before and they've all done the route before. And like, we've kind of talked about a lot. There's so much to be learned about that route and how to improve on it. And then like, oh, this person was chosen to come because they're fat fast. And then I believe there was somebody that has won Western States there, but ended up having an injury and it's just coming back. So like that person obviously has the potential to be crazy fast. And then Mercedes had just done Leadville. So she had some great experience right under her belt. Um,
00:36:27
Speaker
So first lap, I was like, i want to start near the front, but I also haven't run longer than like 60K in two and a half years because I've been pregnant, maybe longer, maybe three years, which is only like 35 or 36 miles. So be cautious.
00:36:49
Speaker
And you took off, knew that was going to happen. And Candace and Andrea and like one other girl took off. And I was like, do I go with them? don't think so.
00:37:01
Speaker
And because it's an out and back, I could keep track. And so what I would do is when I would see them, I would count the minutes until I got to the aid station, knowing like taking in the uphill and downhill and being like, okay, they're, four minutes ahead, which feels very short, but in the race, like you can't see them because the forest is so dense. So you think you have this big gap, you know what i mean? Um,
00:37:21
Speaker
And loop one was fine. it was what it was. It was like super cool to see the course for the first time. um My feet started to have issues immediately, partly because of my taper injury. I hadn't worn running shoes in forever and they had really softened. Great point.
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't even think of that. Normally what I do is like just... all the runs, I'm wearing those same shoes to keep the like callus and all the gross stuff, but they had gotten like quite wimpy.
00:37:49
Speaker
Um, and I got to the first aid station and like, you don't need drop off big. And I'm like, i do, i need to lube my feet better. And she was like, Oh no, cause we're six miles in. Um, but like I say on my podcast all the time, diaper cream, the best you can find it's for moisture.
00:38:06
Speaker
And then after the first lap, I switched into some toe socks, which really, really saved me. um But I came in at like 445, which is like very far behind where you were, but was in within 10 minutes of all the of the other ladies or so. That's a good, yeah, that's a really good loop.
00:38:23
Speaker
Well, I thought it was like perfectly paced. Like it didn't feel hard. It didn't feel um super fast. Like it felt like adventure long run pace, which was kind of where I wanted to be um on the first loop.
00:38:35
Speaker
And I was like, okay, great. um The second loop, I got into some trouble. So I have, which is way too early to get into trouble. I have this thing, it's called slip rib syndrome. And i actually just saw a doctor this morning because it's to the point now where I'm looking for surgical surgery.
00:38:53
Speaker
solutions. So I've had it for 20 years and it's getting way worse. And I think a combination of the heat and, um, the fact that I did have a baby nine months ago made it act up a lot earlier than I thought.
00:39:07
Speaker
So what happens is when I'm in power hiking position, because you're bent over, um my like third rib up on the right side dislocates. And i don't know if you've ever had a dislocated rib or even a cracked rib or anything. it is, um,
00:39:21
Speaker
horrendously painful and you can't breathe. So I had in my mind, this is going to happen probably loop four. And usually I have to run two or three hours with it, but it'll be longer this time, but I can deal with it.
00:39:34
Speaker
I didn't think it was going to happen so early. And my mind started to be like, oh, you can't feel this for 20 more hours. And I wouldn't have been able to. um So that played with my brain quite a bit. And I actually...
00:39:52
Speaker
Wait. No. Okay. So that started to worry me. was thinking about that. And then on the second climb, Nuanu, that's how you say it, right?
00:40:02
Speaker
Came out of there and it's quite a bit steeper and it like fully came out and I couldn't breathe. And I had to do that climb with one pole actually behind my back, like holding the rib into place.
00:40:13
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I'm just... It's going to get cooler. So what I think was happening when I mentioned the heat is that my muscles might have been cramping a little bit in my back, which caused it to pull out faster as well.
00:40:24
Speaker
But usually I have pulls because it keeps me more more upright and i I had them, but still I couldn't like get it to stay in. um So then we got back after lap two and... It was 4 p.m. So my goal was if I could do the first two loops in 10 hours, that's great. But I was like, I just lost probably 20 minutes on that loop because of my rib. And it started to like mentally mess with me more than I thought it would, um which is super frustrating because normally my like mental toughness is my thing. So I think I was also getting angry at myself for letting this bother me, but feeling like you do all this work and this stupid injury that has nothing to do with fitness,
00:41:04
Speaker
is like getting in my way. Okay. So then here's the other part of it. I had this little bag with some Advil and salt tabs in it that I um was like, I'm not going to take, or sorry, Tylenol. not going to take it till the end of the race, but I was like, I need it now. So i'm going to take it.
00:41:23
Speaker
But Baker was there, my sweet little crew boss, and he gave me a little note that I have told him his only job was to make sure that I do not leave the aid station without my headlamp. And he gave me a note that said,
00:41:36
Speaker
take your headlamp. Um, so I like gave him a big hug and I didn't want to ignore him. I wanted to like interact with him because he was there. So we did. And then I realized I had like left my headlamp on the ground and I was like, Oh man, I'm not super focused on this. And I like put it in my bag and everything was great.
00:41:52
Speaker
And then I got halfway up hogs back and was like, okay, I need Tylenol and I need a salt pill. And I didn't have the bag with me. And I was like,
00:42:01
Speaker
Like if I go back now, it's 40 minutes maybe. Because it's super technical. And then all the way back up. like It's just not worth it. Like maybe I can get some um painkillers at the first aid station.
00:42:15
Speaker
And I got there and they were like, no, not in our scope of practice, but bla bla blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, that's fine. That leg actually wasn't bad because I was like, I'm not, I'm not doing like a super slow loop again because in my mind loop two was so bad.
00:42:29
Speaker
Um, and I actually put a little bit of close the gap a little bit on the two of the women in front of me. and then there was also two women behind me that like really picked up the pace and they were within like two or three minutes.
00:42:42
Speaker
So that like middle front part of the women's pack was like kind of crazy already. Oh, yeah. All I could think when I was watching that kind of happen was, oh, my God, I'm so glad I'm not caught up in that because that is like really stressful how close all of you were.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But then on one hand, i was like, I am in enough pain now that all I want to do is finish this race. So the like carrying where other people were completely went away in in lap three.
00:43:13
Speaker
um So I was like, okay, the sun's going to go down. Like maybe my back muscles were loosened a little bit. They weren't like I ended up loop three ended up being like the absolute worst. At one point I had to lie down on the trail on my back and just like on a rock and just like breathe with my rib back in place for a little bit. And I was crying and looking at like the canopy and just being like, I'm just not going to quit, but I'm not even halfway. i don't think. And this is like just horrendous pain.
00:43:48
Speaker
Um, and the other weird part of it is that my bedtime is like nine ish. is pretty early. So with the time change, that was 7 p.m. um Hawaii time. And this has never happened to me before. So it had just gotten dark.
00:44:04
Speaker
My need to have a nap was out of control. And at that point, we'd only been running for 13 hours. I've run for over 13 hours a billion times. I've never had this nap. So physically, completely fine. But this, well, other than my rib. Yeah, the rib.
00:44:19
Speaker
Fitness-wise, fine. Feet, phenomenal. Back pain, 10 out of 10, would rather literally have a baby, and I didn't have drugs for that. um And then this need to sleep. so I was like lying in the dirt with my eyes closed with my ribbon, just like,
00:44:35
Speaker
just go get Annie who I don't know, but she's going to pace me for loop four and maybe some company will be nice. So I found her and I had told her I will be in around 9 PM, but it was like closer to 9 40. And I was like, I'm so sorry. had to wait for me for 40 minutes. Like, I'm so sorry. And she's like, you're fine. The other women like just left the aid station. Relax.
00:44:57
Speaker
But in my mind, I was like, I've F this up because I laid on the trail I, At that point then I like took the Tylenol and I don't like to like recommend that as a good thing to do, but it was like, otherwise it's not happening.
00:45:10
Speaker
um And that really, really helped. And then, yeah, then we started loop four. I'll pause for a second because I feel like that was a really long ramble. No, that's, it's, I love it.
00:45:23
Speaker
It's, a it's so fun to hear everyone's experience because you have your own and then just have no idea what's happening other than like glimpses, because you're crossing back and forth. And like, every time I saw you, it like, she's doing great. Like, wow. Because I did notice you had moved up a couple of times. I was like, oh yeah, she's closing it.
00:45:43
Speaker
Let's get into four and five and how you finish that up. And also, spoiler alert, Hillary did amazing. She came in fourth. with every bit of this all happening and yeah, you've, it's just like podium is happening.
00:46:01
Speaker
I can feel it, but continue four five. Yeah. It ended up in 2930 and I feel like any other year that would have been on the podium, but like had to have the record breaker out in front, taking that first spot. yeah,
00:46:13
Speaker
of So I knew like I'm fit enough that I'm going to close this race strong. if I could just get through lap four, it's going to be fine. um So taking the Tylenol, but it would like work for a little bit. And then as soon as it would stop working, it was like, oh, I can't breathe and I'm going to die.
00:46:30
Speaker
So Annie would be like, oh, yeah, we're at a great pace. And then she would look back and I was like dying again. So um had to kind of rely on the painkillers a little bit too much. And Steve actually popped my rib back into place like really nicely at one point, like deep. And he was like, that was super disgusting.
00:46:47
Speaker
um But it gave me enough of relief to like at least have a little bit of fun again for a bit. And so loop four, i was like, here's my plan. I'm going to climb as strong as I can because my climbing legs feel great. And I'm just going to try to jog the flats and the downhills. And like that sort of takes care of the whole thing. Like just as long as there's no really wimpy parts of this race, we're going to be fine.
00:47:09
Speaker
And my loops three, four, five were all really close. Like I think my la last two laps were within like two minutes of each other. um alright So yeah, I mean, not actually, they were like five, maybe 10 minutes, but still pretty close.
00:47:22
Speaker
um And
00:47:27
Speaker
going into, at the end of loop four, I was really dizzy and my back pain was still really bad. And I was sort of like, for a second, 80 miles is good enough.
00:47:39
Speaker
And Steve and Annie like, no it's not. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. So she's got it. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I just need to lay like on my face again for like two minutes and just let the pain subside for a second, because it's like somebody stabbing you in the back. It's just like you, you get to a point where you're like, ah, I can't feel this

Reflections and Future Plans

00:48:00
Speaker
anymore. so We get back out and Annie was not going to pace me for loop five, but she was like, let me just get you back out there. And then you know how like on the connector, you can come back down pipes at the end. Yeah.
00:48:13
Speaker
So she just kind of got me going. And then I was like, you know what? Like, I feel great. This is the party lap. Let's just like see if I can close the gap on anybody in front of me. And then that ended up being one of my strongest laps. And all I did was every time I got to a segment or like a leg, just being like, let's make this the best that you run this all day. Like there's no point in having any energy left again.
00:48:34
Speaker
um And I passed the woman who was in fourth. And she had run a really strong race, but it looked like she was kind of in some pain at that point. um And then I knew i saw Candice and I could see that she wasn't feeling great, but that she was still quite far ahead of me.
00:48:50
Speaker
in hindsight, had I pushed a little sooner, it might have been a closer race because she started loop five, two and a half hours in front of me and ended it an hour in front of me. So put in like an hour and a half just on that last loop. So I'm like, Oh, too bad. There wasn't a six loop. Cause then we would have been fine.
00:49:09
Speaker
Um, but she started a lot harder than i did. So it's such like a juggle of like not wasting any time on the start, but, um, equally pacing yourself. Right. So I think part of that is the experience she's done the route eight or the course eight times. This is my first time. There's like so many lessons to learn.
00:49:26
Speaker
So on one hand it was like, Yeah, this stuff happened and it wasted for sure a couple of hours on dealing with it. But the controllables, like we talked about before, like my fitness, my feet, um, we're all really good.
00:49:39
Speaker
So I was really happy with that. And then and was just stoked to finish the race like that, I guess, when it was, there was definitely a point where i was like, Oh, I've already failed. Like I've already blown up, um, blown up. I texted my husband. It was like,
00:49:52
Speaker
um' not I don't even know if I'm going to make cutoffs. And he's like, you're delusional. um So I ended up sub 30, which was my kind of second goal. um And yeah, I think that the aid stations and the other people and like seeing everybody really was more helpful than I thought it would be as well.
00:50:13
Speaker
you know, it's such an interesting piece of it because on the one hand, from competitor's side, it can feel really daunting to be like, I'm going to see the people that I'm racing against that many times.
00:50:25
Speaker
Like, do I really want that? But then from just the camaraderie piece, I find it super helpful. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah, it was just more fun than I thought. um Because you start you're not paying attention to your own body for that time, right? Yeah.
00:50:43
Speaker
yeah and even Yeah, totally. Even the men and stuff that I had met at like the pre-race briefing, and there were some of them where we were kind of leapfrogging each other the whole time. And it was fun to see them and like call out to each other. And yeah, it was really cool, that aspect of the race.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's it's probably one of my, almost one of my favorite parts of it, which is, yeah, surprising. um So, Hilary, I know you have a child who's going to be waking up soon.
00:51:10
Speaker
Thank you for joining us. Do you want to plug your stuff? And I'll add it to the show notes as well. Yeah, that would be awesome. So if you come over to Ettrail Running and Pod, I don't know when this comes out, but we just chatted with Alyssa about her focus for getting the record and that's a super fun episode. And what else you can find our Instagram at trail running women pod. I am that's pretty new. So it's not super great yet, but it will be better. And then personally, I'm just at health sport 55 and yeah, I love following along. So reach out if anybody wants to like connect over racing or kids or all that stuff.
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you're definitely, My, ah I look up to you a lot in many ways, but also like who I hope to be as a mom. So being awesome.
00:52:04
Speaker
And yeah, I ah definitely hope I'm half as cool as you are one day. yeah Well, and thank you. like this on this flash forward I'm like, one day we'll run hurt when we're like 60 and our kids can pace us.
00:52:16
Speaker
Okay. I would love that. Honestly, was like, you know, i think I'm going to take next year off from her, but like, I'll be back for sure. But I kind of just want to do it for, I really want, not that it wasn't fun, but i've always like, I want to do it where I just eat like all the aid station and food.
00:52:31
Speaker
Cause it's really good. Yes. Yeah. yeah but right yeah My husband is a mid packer and he's like, it's a different vibe back here. It's a great time. Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
It seems. Yeah. I was passing someone who was like having a, they were like lovely, power hiking up the hill like seemed like they're having a great time and i was like have to run would just like hike with them like that sounds fun yeah many different ways all hard but it would be so fun to do that i i'm in all right we're 60 we're doing it awesome but Awesome. Hillary, thank you so much for being on.
00:53:13
Speaker
ah Thank you for listening to the Uphill Athlete podcast. If you can rate, review, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, we would appreciate it. And go check out Trail Running Women podcast.
00:53:26
Speaker
It's not just one, but a community. We are Uphill Athlete.