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Voice of the Mountains: The Currency of Toil with Ed Viesturs
4.4k Plays3 days ago
The last regular episode of season one of Voice of the Mountains wraps with the legendary high-altitude mountaineer, Ed Viesturs. Ed is the first American to summit all 14 of the world’s 8,000-meter peaks without supplemental oxygen, a testament to his unparalleled grit and respect for the mountains. With his famous mantra, "getting to the top is optional; getting down is mandatory," Ed’s philosophy has inspired climbers and adventurers alike for decades. Join Steve and Ed as they delve into his remarkable journey, his approach to risk, and the invaluable lessons he’s learned from a lifetime in the world's harshest environments.
If you'd like to read the companion essay and learn more about Voice of the Mountains, please visit:
https://uphillathlete.com/voiceofthemountains/
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Transcript
Mountaineering Philosophy
00:00:07
Speaker
Imagine climbing 27,000 feet. Each breath feels like you're pulling air through a straw. Every step forward is a test of will. Every decision can be a matter of life or death. You're alone, surrounded by the endless expanse of ice and rock and mountains, the summit just in view. It's tempting, so tempting to push just a little further But then you hear it, that quiet voice, the one that's kept you alive this long. It reminds you that getting to the top is optional. Getting down is mandatory.
00:00:50
Speaker
Few climbers have lived these words as faithfully as Ed Viesters, the first American to summit all 14 of the world's 8,000-meter peaks without supplemental oxygen.
00:01:02
Speaker
Ed is a legend, but what makes him remarkable isn't just his achievements. It's the integrity with which he's pursued them. The mountains have a way of stripping us down to who we really are. And for Ed, every climb has been a lesson in humility, resilience, and respect. Today, he's here to share what the mountains taught him about life, risk, and the true meaning of success.
00:01:32
Speaker
This is Voice of the Mountains, and I'm your host, Steve Haus.
Introduction to Ed Viesters
00:01:36
Speaker
Let's listen to the mountain through the voice of Ed Wiesters.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome to Voice of the Mountains. My name is Steve Haus. I'm really excited to introduce a guest today who I've known for a long time. Few people in the world of mountaineering hear the mountains as my guest does.
00:01:58
Speaker
Of course, few people have dedicated their lives to the sport of mountaineering the way he has. Ed Visters is perhaps best known for a lifetime spent climbing the greatest mountains on Earth. He's the only American to have summited all 14 of the world's 8,000-meter peaks, which, of course, he did without supplemental oxygen. And he's only one of 12 people in the world to have ever done so.
00:02:23
Speaker
And while accomplishments like that have made him a legend in the world of high altitude mountaineering, that's not the reason he's here today. Well, not the only reason. Ed's career wasn't only notable for the peaks he climbed, but for the care and integrity with which he climbed them. In a world that seems to be singularly focused on reaching the top, no matter what, this stands out.
00:02:47
Speaker
His philosophy is famously, getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory. And that line has made him a sage for climbers and non-climbers alike. For over 30 years, Ed has been going on expeditions and he's been tested by some of the most unforgiving environments on earth and by tragic loss.
00:03:10
Speaker
In our community, he's synonymous with Himalaya, Mount Everest and the awe that these places inspire, but his legend status has not changed him. He still remains to me the humble young man who left Illinois at 18 and fell in love with mountaineering on the slopes of Mount Rainier. Mountaineering has taken him ah around the world and he has shared his journeys and experiences as a writer, a cinematographer, and a noted speaker.
00:03:39
Speaker
He's also been successful at another very difficult career, professional climbing. Ed is perhaps the only American climber to have ever been sponsored by Rolex. And if you think that's easy to do, well, you're welcome to try.
00:03:53
Speaker
I'll be blunt, there is but a small handful of people on the planet that have accomplished what Ed has, and perhaps even fewer that understand that it isn't about the accomplishments. It's about the toil and, in his words, listening to the mountain. And that is why I can't imagine a better guest for Voice of the Mountains. I want to welcome fellow mountain listener, Ed Viesters.
Inspiration and Early Career
00:04:16
Speaker
Thanks for being on the show today, Ed.
00:04:18
Speaker
ah Well, thanks for having me. Tell us about the Ed V. Sears that fell in love with mountaineering all those years ago. You know, I was growing up at the time in Illinois, and to escape and have adventure, which wasn't available really, I started reading adventure books.
00:04:39
Speaker
And one of the first mountaineering books that i read was anapurna and that was you know the event that took place in nineteen fifty. Where the french for the first time reach the summit of an eight thousand meter peak anapurna.
00:04:55
Speaker
And it was that book that flipped a switch. And after reading that, I knew that is something that I wanted to do, to go climb big mountains. And I knew it wasn't gonna happen right away, right? I was in the wrong place. I didn't know anything about climbing. And and it was because of that book that I decided right out of high school, I was gonna move to Seattle.
00:05:20
Speaker
um Because of all my readings, I knew so many great American Himalayan climbers were from the Pacific Northwest. And I think if you want to do something in a certain arena, you surround yourself in an environment where you can practice.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then you surround yourself with the people that are doing what you're doing as well because they can hopefully become your teachers and your mentors and and guide you and teach you and that's what caused me to move. And you know it started for me as a dream and as a hobby.
00:05:56
Speaker
Who were those people that were that you looked up to at that time, those those Himalayan mountaineers? And why Himalayan? and Was it strictly because of Annapurna, or what was it was there something particular about the Himalaya at that point already in your life that called to you? You know what, I i think what I was intrigued with, especially with the Himalaya, ah was the altitude. You know, the the struggle of moving uphill at 26,000, 27,000, 28,000 feet, the the increase of the the difficulty.
00:06:33
Speaker
And to me, the intrigue seemed, you know how do you do that physically? How do you train for that? How do you endure that mentally as well? Those things were, to me, very interesting. you know I enjoyed alpine climbing. I enjoyed rock climbing. But what what for me was the cold and the high and the extreme and and where you're just Really just stripped to your basics, right? You. Yeah. In the mountain. That's it. Yeah, you in the mountain. And that was what intrigued me. The people that I'd read about were obviously, you know, the Whitakers in Seattle and Ross Kelly Hornbein.
00:07:13
Speaker
um You know, there was so much activity in the Washington state areas where those guys were innovative.
Everest Without Oxygen
00:07:21
Speaker
The terrain was difficult. They had to work hard just to get to some of these mountains, even in the state of Washington. yeah And all that kind of hardship ah set them up for the hardship of going into the bigger mountains. And and those are the people that I kind of wanted to to emulate. And then of course, you know, I started reading about people like Messner you know who was really pushing the envelope in the Himalaya, no oxygen, small teams, Alpine style. But again, I started at zero, and this was all me just reading and dreaming about it. How do you communicate what that's like, what you described, like moving up at 26, 27? You know, all I can do is is describe to them. And one of the events I do talk about was my
00:08:12
Speaker
first time ah going to the summit of Everest. And that was in 1987. And that was actually my third expedition to Everest. two My first two trips, you know, we got shut down by weather. My first trip, we had to turn around 300 feet from the summit. And I talk about how you make that decision and you walk away while you're you know standing there literally looking at the summit. And it was that day in 1990, that I finally had my third opportunity to go for the summit. You know, on the north side, High Camp is at about 27,000 feet. And you've got a long day ahead of you. And without oxygen, each step becomes its own mountain, literally. And I recall and I remember, you know, you're moving at a snail's pace,
00:09:09
Speaker
You're going nowhere very slowly. And I had to breathe 15 times per step. I had to make that my my pace, my mantra. At breath 15, you literally have to force yourself to take that next step. And that's not just like a little breath like,
00:09:31
Speaker
That's like a big breath, right? It's a full body, full torso. 15 gasping breaths, yeah like a fish out of water. Yeah. And I kind of remember knowing, but but let me take a step at 14 and you can't do it because then you're out of breath. Yeah. And if you go to 16 or 17 breaths,
00:09:50
Speaker
Then that's too much and then you'll never get there. So you have to find that tipping point between hypoxia and just having enough energy that you've regained to take that next step.
Decision-Making in Climbing
00:10:02
Speaker
And I tell people that that that that goes on for eight or 10 hours.
00:10:07
Speaker
And that's all you think about literally. and and i And I throw it out to the audience. I say, what have you done in ah and a 10 hour day? I mean, you do so many things. All I'm doing is stepping and breathing. Yeah. and And then it starts to become a mind game because you start to think about this is not fun. Why am I doing this? And how do I quit, right? How do I stop? Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker
Quitting's easy, right? right and and But if if you can't come up with a legitimate excuse, you go, okay, I'm not gonna quit. I want you to stop right there because I think that that's so that's the point where like just your mindset is you're thinking about reasons you shh.
00:10:50
Speaker
like, what's a good reason I should quit, right? As opposed to like, you've got plenty of, I mean, you anyone objectively would think of like a million good reasons to quit at any point of that day. But you're coming at it from completely the other side of the equation. You know, you can come up with an excuse. And when things get really hard,
00:11:08
Speaker
I think a lot of people just come up with an idea or an excuse that I can't. I don't want to. It's too hard. I'm too cold. It's taking too long. I mean, those are all legitimate, right? I mean, I was up there alone that day. So I didn't have a partner to pull me along or to discuss with. And so it was just me. And I could have quit. And I could have said, ah I'm done. I get to go down. But I tend to be pretty stubborn.
00:11:35
Speaker
And i was reflect on when i don't complete something it it always bothers me and i'll think about it until i finally finish it. And if i don't have a legitimate cue excuse to stop i say okay i'm gonna keep going.
00:11:52
Speaker
And then the mental way that you break a giant event like that down is you've got to break it down into smaller, tangible, consumable steps, right? Step by step instead of hour by hour. It's got to be steps and breaths.
00:12:09
Speaker
I've done this with people similarly where you know I haven't been as high as you but you know say like above 8,000 meters and like take 10 big breaths those big gasping breath and just see how long it takes you to walk across the room yeah or go from your living room to your bedroom in your house know And that starts to put it in scale for people, like, how hard it is is to move. I think it's always so interesting. And it's something that all of us as mountaineers and climbers and every single person that ever ties into a rope at some point has to ask themselves this question about, do I turn around now, right, or not? Like, that that decision point, right? And and I mean, we're sometimes we're blessed with days where it's super easy, right? Like, there's the obvious storm or,
00:12:54
Speaker
I don't know whatever the obvious thing is. And it makes it so, like, it's so blatantly obvious, like, okay, yeah, we can't go on, we have to turn around, whatever. That's easy, right? But it's, that's 10% of the time, or whatever it is, it's some small amount of the time. Most of the time, it's somewhere in this gray middle where you're like, ah, you know, this is hard, I yeah could turn down, I keep going, I might be okay, but I might not be, I just don't know.
00:13:19
Speaker
Like, talk to me about that space and how you how you exist in that space a little more, and how you think about that. You do wrestle with that decision at certain times. And like you said, there are days when it's more than obvious, right? The weather's moving in, it's late, somebody might be going too slow, you know, and you start to calculate if we keep going, will we have time and energy to come down, right? Because a lot of people, I think they forget about the going down part. it's It's pushing and consuming all of your resources, including daylight, supplemental oxygen, whatever, just to get to the top. There's no plan for coming down. It's going to be easy. We're going downhill. No big deal. But by then, ah things start to fall apart if you don't have the energy or the resources to come down. um My ascents were always
00:14:18
Speaker
dictated by my descents. I always made sure I had a plan for going down before I had a plan for going up. There are days though where the weather's kinda maybe changing and you're trying to figure out, do I have the endurance to get myself to the top, you know, after 12 hours of going uphill and then still have enough gas in the tank to come down? That's always a kind of a mystery. And what I learned through experience was instinct rules.
00:14:50
Speaker
If you feel any inkling of trepidation as you're going up, you've got to stop and and ask yourself, why am I feeling this way? You know, instinct keeps us alive. And that's based on a lot of things, including, you know, experience and training and all those things. And I always made the decision that I'm going to listen to that instinct and just be super conservative.
00:15:15
Speaker
right? Because at the end of the day, and I've said this, you know, I love climbing, but I like being alive a lot more. um and And that's, that's the thing you got to think about. Make sure you get home. Everything else is secondary. Yeah, you can go back.
00:15:30
Speaker
And I think that the thing that I had was I knew that I had the possibility to go back and try again if it didn't work on a certain expedition. Right. Whereas I think a lot of people it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Right. And they might not never get to go back and they're willing to pay a bigger price for success. Yeah. And that's a key point. And I think that that I'm glad you bring that up because I think you're, you know, you're giving people grace in a sense for being in that position. I mean, it's not, I'm not judging them. I'm just, that's, that's their thing. They've got that one window. They're going to do this this one time.
00:16:09
Speaker
And if it doesn't happen today, it's never going to happen for them. And so that is a different thing. Like, you know, I also thought about my expeditionary climbing career. I thought of it as sort of like a, you know, a very long game of 20, 30 years, knowing that some of those expeditions I was going to have bad weather and some of them I was going to have good weather. And it's just a matter of showing up every season.
00:16:32
Speaker
Right? And if you could shut up for this season and we got unlucky with weather and conditions, like, yep, okay, good. i I got the bad weather season out of the way and the next year I have a better chance. i like That's how I justified it, right? but But I think you're right. Like a lot of people don't have that kind of long game perspective. And that that is something that is very different.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. and And you can see that. And I don't, like you said, you don't judge people based on that, you know, and everybody has their own price. They're willing to pay for success. Everybody has their own level of acceptable risk, right? Some people are willing to risk more, some people willing, and you just decide who you want to be with in the mountains.
00:17:16
Speaker
based on your level of acceptable risk. And and if they're if everybody's on the same page, you're gonna have fun. You're not gonna have a disagreement. Nobody's gonna push somebody harder than they want to. And that's hard along the way to find those perfect partnerships. And I know you know what that's like. Once you click with certain people, you make the decisions in the same way. You push each other, but you don't push too hard. yeah And you come away having a great event and you're still friends at the end of the day
00:17:46
Speaker
i think that people listening to you and they'll they'll like connected to what you just said about instinct and instinct keeps us alive and i also want to say that Something you said after that is that instinct is made up of a lot of things, one of which of it is experience. So I think of this instinct that you're talking about for me is is ah is actually quite movable. you know Like if I'm on the west buttress of Denali guiding, and I have certain resources behind me, and you know and I'm very comfortable, and I'm not stretched by altitude, and I know my way around super well because I've been up there a couple dozen times, like all those things,
00:18:26
Speaker
My quote-unquote instinct there is very different than it is in another location, another time, another place, another set of circumstances, right? And when people don't have a lot of experience yet, they have ah they don't understand that. They think that we're all the same. And we're not the same. Like, you are not the same. that you are not You're different than I am, and I'm different than another climber. And we're each going to be different from your you know day-to-day, month-to-month, year-to-year. What it is is very human, right? like The things that you're talking about are the same things that every mountaineer that ever flipped on a headlamp at 12 in the morning and put on their crampons ever thought about. This is the meat of it. This is what everybody goes through every time they they rope up and head off to try to climb a peak.
Risk Management in Climbing
00:19:12
Speaker
And, you know, some days it's easy and some days it's not. And I like your answer ah about instinct because it is, you know, we spend so much time with a pill athlete, like working on people's physical preparedness. And that is a component, right? Like you kind of know what kind of fitness and health you have at any given time. You can feel that. That's that's one of the things informing your instinct. And one of the things that can move that those those those variables is like how far you're willing to push.
00:19:40
Speaker
but We don't ever spend much time talking about, well, we never basically talk about it except here, this decision-making framework, I guess I'll call it, for for for making this tough call, which 80% of the time is a tough call. That's true. And you know it's all based on managing risk.
00:20:01
Speaker
And, you know, when I started climbing, I don't think any of us go into it going, oh, I'm going to become a risk manager. You know, that is something you learn along the way and you discover, wow, there are inherent risks in what I've chosen to do. And a lot of people think, you know, we as climbers, we love risk, we seek risk. And and I say no.
00:20:25
Speaker
we We don't do it for the risk. We do it for other reasons. Risk happens to be a huge part of what we do. And I tend to separate the risk into two categories. I talk about the objective dangers, you know, the things that are inherent in the mountains, things we can't avoid, we have to accept, we can't ignore.
00:20:47
Speaker
and But I think the biggest risk in the mountains is the decision-making part. you know How we choose what we do, when we do it, how far we're willing to push. And that is, in my opinion, the biggest category that causes the problems in the mountains. It's the decisions and the choices. The human factor, for sure. Yeah.
00:21:11
Speaker
This dovetails into a question I wanted to ask you. What did guiding teach you and how did how did guiding shape your thought processes around this? When I became a guide and I wanted to work, I thought, what a great summer job to be on Mount Rainier, going up and down, being in that environment, getting fit, learning about the and the the the activity of climbing. But more importantly for me,
00:21:39
Speaker
I knew that there were these senior guides like Eric Simonson and George Dunn and Phil Urshler guys that had 10 more years experience than me and they actually became my teachers.
00:21:55
Speaker
And my mentors, I mean, I looked up to them and I thought I want to take their best qualities. I want to emulate them. And I knew they were already doing big trips, you know, guiding all over the world as well as going to the Himalaya.
00:22:11
Speaker
And I said, if I learn from these guys and if I work hard and keep my mouth shut and show them that I'm a ah capable team member, maybe they'll start inviting me to go with them. And sure enough, they did. You know, Urschler invited me to Denali. Eric Simonson brought me to Denali. And here I was with my superstar teachers and I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. And eventually it was Eric that brought me on my first Himalayan expedition, and that was to Everest in 1987. And I remember telling him, I said, listen, I've never been that high before. I'd been to Denali 20,000 feet. I don't have experience at altitude. And he said, listen, if nobody allows you to gain the experience, how will you ever get the experience?
00:23:03
Speaker
And I thought that was an amazing gift that he gave to me to bring me as a team member to say, let's go, here's your time to learn. yeah And another thing that I learned um that was really important to me as a guide, you know, we're in charge of our clients that come to us ah and we are there to teach them to motivate them to cheer lead them but more importantly to keep them safe right we're not just taking care of ourselves in the mountains we're taking care of other people. And that makes you think about.
00:23:45
Speaker
situational awareness, always processing information that's happening in the moment. The weather, the snow, the strength of the team, the time of day, and those and that information is how you make your decisions and choices and trying to make a decision before something happens, right, instead of letting it happen. And the term that we had was listen listen to the mountain.
00:24:12
Speaker
Because it is going to tell you what you're allowed to do and what you shouldn't do. And that, to me, was my biggest takeaway as a guide. and you know How to have the mountain decide what I get to do. Not me. I i don't conquer. you know I don't like that word, conquer. I think in the mountains, we're allowed to either proceed or we're told to turn around and go home. And and that was a big takeaway for me.
00:24:39
Speaker
When the mountain is talking, what is it saying? like what are the What are the voices that it uses? what is it How is it communicating with you? How are you hearing it? It's information that you're seeing. ah you know A cloud building on the horizon, the wind increasing. ah It's things that you're feeling. What does the snow sound like? you know When you're walking on funky snow, you're like, eh, I know this is not good. And again, all that stuff is is experiential stuff that you've learned, right? yeahp Ignorance is bliss in the mountain. You can go out there and go, hey, we're going to the summit without any idea of what could happen. The more you learn, I think the more information you take in because you know what to take in. And and so it's all that stuff. And then again, part of that, again, based on experience is your instinct. You know, when when things start to
00:25:35
Speaker
Alarm bells start to go off for whatever reason. there's There's a reason for that. And that's something you've got to stop and listen to and and at least make a decision or have a conversation with your team. There's a couple things that you say. And you know I'm getting calls from people that, say, want to train to climb Mount Everest next year or something like that, right? And they have zero mountaineering experience.
00:26:00
Speaker
And they want to know how to do it and they think it's just about doing a certain number of vertical meters on the stair climber in the gym or something and then they can go. And these, I'm going to start sending them this conversation and you talking about that because those experiential things, yeah, do you there's there's no way to download that information. You can't learn that from a book.
00:26:23
Speaker
You can't learn it from another person telling you about it. You can't learn it from a podcast. You could only learn it. You only know what funky snow feels like if you felt funky snow under your boots. I don't know another way to communicate that to to people, but I know viscerally what you mean. Like in my body, I know what that is. And others who are listening to this have that experience will too. And so that that's, ah that and move we communicate that about that and you say, oh, the the snow felt funky. Like I'll know what you meant and be like, oh really it felt funky where, you know, and we'll start talking about it and we'll have a conversation about this, about the snowpack. But you know, that's just not something you can get any other way other than doing the thing.
Modern Guiding Industry Critique
00:27:06
Speaker
and And I think that's the important thing that I've learned about guiding, right? People think it's people signing up for a trip, they pay their money, we take them up to the summit, we take them home, you know? And the faster the better, right? I think that's the way the guiding industry is going today, is shortcut the trip for people, have all the camps established, fix all the rope, the clients show up, we race them to the top, we race them home, they ring the bell,
00:27:35
Speaker
And they say they climbed whatever, but did they actually learn anything? No. Did they experience anything? Probably not enough. and There's no takeaway. They weren't part of the process, right? They weren't involved in the whole event of building the infrastructure and gaining experience and all that. And I think that's kind of missing the point. you know We as climbers and mountaineers, the journey as tried as it mouth might sound is the biggest part of why we do what we do, right? That's why it's called climbing. It's not called summiting.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's called hunting, not shooting, right? It's similar. Yeah, fishing, not catching. Yeah, fishing, not catching, yeah. So, you know, or to to paraphrase Yvon Chouinard, like the whole point of going on an expedition is to you know, sort of invoke some sort of change in yourself to some sort of transformation. And if you if you don't make time for that, you're going to be an asshole when you go and you're going to be an asshole when you get back. that's Like, what's the point? But i true i could I see it from the kind of marketing point of view too, especially in today's
00:28:52
Speaker
You know, I mean, a kid it kid can it move any faster the world we live in? Like, i just I just don't know. But it's just moving faster and faster and people are more and more. They want it in less and less time. And I got to say, I do think that there's the opposite is i also true. I do think there are people swinging the other way or like, you know what? I don't want to climb Everest in two weeks. I want to climb Everest in two months. Like, I want to be part of setting up base camp and carrying loads to Camp 1.
00:29:21
Speaker
so i I have to say I do think the pendulum could swing a little bit and maybe or maybe it's segmenting. Maybe there's just people that are always going to want to have, you know, to shortcut and there's going to be other people that want more of the deep kind of experience or have the space for it in their lives. And i keep I keep threatening and I see all these trips going so fast, so quick, so hugely expensive.
00:29:47
Speaker
Why not just offer an old school expedition like it's gonna take two and a half months it's gonna cost a lot less but you're gonna you're gonna earn it you're gonna pay the price the currency of toil and you're gonna be involved in in the dayto day to day.
00:30:04
Speaker
And and i I think you're right, there's gonna be certain people that want to you know roll up their sleeves and really just dig deep. yeah And I think it'd be fun to do. Yeah, I think you'd have a market at. I think i really do, I really do. I i grew up in my younger, or a lot of my climbing career I spent with
Dedication to Mountaineering
00:30:23
Speaker
Slovenians, and on some of those first expeditions I went on, there was a lot of these guys who were around, when the in the old Yugoslavia, they used to, you know,
00:30:33
Speaker
buy an old truck, load all the expedition and drive it over land, you know, through Iran, through Afghanistan, through Pakistan and India, that kind of thing is is a totally different mentality. And the stories those guys had were more about the trip of driving through Iran and Afghanistan and Pakistan.
00:30:54
Speaker
than they were about the actual climbing of the mountain. Like, that was sort of like, yeah, they did that, but the real adventure, but if you ask them, was actually all the other stuff that happened along the way. And then, of course, they would just trash these, you know, they'd sell these trucks in Nepal for, like, $400 or something. They were probably broken down, and they' they'd they'd go fly home with ah the rest of the expedition. But I always i remember just being wholly fascinated with those stories and thinking like, man, I want to do that. But is it a you know that that's never going to happen. and you And that never happened for me. I'm never going to make that happen. you know Again, it's an event for them. They don't have the time. that you know They can't break away. They've got family. They've got obligations at work. And and it's understandable. right and And I think the cool part is at least people are
00:31:44
Speaker
adventuring, you know, in whatever form that is, you know, there are people that are trying to push their limits and see what's capable for them. and and And the guide services are providing that opportunity. So it's it's kind of a, you know, a mixed emotion for me. But I guess the positive part is people are out there doing stuff, which is kind of cool and interesting.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. You've always used this, at least to my knowledge, in one of your books, I first saw this this this phrase, the currency of toil, which I always loved that term of phrase. I thought that was a great phrase. Just as a writer, I always liked that. It may sound a bit cliche, when you boom and you call that out like to talk about process. Now everybody's talking about process.
00:32:34
Speaker
But, you know, in your career and in in and my expeditionary career, like, you know, I would go on one or two, mostly two expeditions a year, and the rest of the year was spent in service of those one or two expeditions, right? Like you were either training or you're trying to find the money or you're working a job to pay for it or whatever. And, and you know,
00:32:58
Speaker
You lived that process for 20 or 30 years. And granted, we were on the you know kind of extreme end of that. Most people don't experience that or don't live and in full-time service, their expeditionary habit. But you know there there is a lot of that that was in process over goal. right like Your whole year was built around a few minutes. Yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
That's a different perspective. how do you keep How do you talk to people about that now? like how How do you make people understand what that's actually like to be a professional mountaineer and to like go through all of that?
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, you do spend a lot of time in preparation for an expedition. And I was, you know, like you said, 20 years of that. I'd come home from a trip. I'd give myself a couple of weeks to just decompress, not think about anything. But I already had a plan in my head, you know, what am I doing nine months from now? Yeah. And then that became my motivator.
00:34:04
Speaker
And my fear of failure was my motivator. I said, I need to start training yesterday. I need to start planning, permitting, raising the money. Who am I going to go with, right? Gather the equipment. and And I like to call that doing my homework, you know? And then you go on that mountain, that expedition. Some of these trips were three months long.
00:34:29
Speaker
And that's where you're tested right all that preparation and planning then you become tested you know your physical endurance your mental fortitude the logistics that you that you put together. And i thought man if i fail because i didn't do my homework i only have myself to blame.
00:34:51
Speaker
And so you have to embrace all that. You have to somehow, and I did, I liked the process of getting ready because it kept me motivated and it it gave me something to look forward to. I knew there was this carrot out there.
00:35:08
Speaker
And i talk about the carrot right the thing that you're going for and you know i know a lot of people out there i have a lot of friends that go to the gym every day right to go running or wait left thing. For what reason they don't really have a reason they just want to go to the gym and i say man if you have something out there like a marathon or a mountain climb,
00:35:28
Speaker
Your motivation is going to go up. Yeah, there's there's a there. It's cool to have a goal and and and we're lucky as climbers. We have those goals and and we were attentive to the details and that I think in the end helps you to be successful and be very satisfied um because you enjoy all that.
00:35:50
Speaker
One of the hard things, I think, about becoming a mountaineer, and you know this, but you know you have someone like yourself at 18 or whatever that is has this like dream about going to the mountains. And there's a big gap between that and actually being the person that that climbs Everest. right And yeah you know there's it's always this tricky bridge where do i Do I use guides? Do I take courses? Do I find some guy on the on the you know bo on the whatever website I guess these days to to go climbing with? How do you put in that apprenticeship, I guess?
00:36:29
Speaker
and yeah You know, you and I, I think, both had a similar path in that we both knew that we loved this, and we both got ourselves into situations very young where we were going to be around other people who had were basically mentoring us. I mean, I went on my first Himalayan expedition when I was 19. Like, it was just crazy that i that was even possible. But I i i moved pieces on the the chessboard in a way that I got to go there.
00:36:58
Speaker
And I didn't yeah climb the mountain, obviously, but I had an incredible experience of what a learning life-changing experience it was. But that's ah that's for so many people, very difficult to bridge. What do you say? what How do you coach people through that? You know, I like the word apprenticeship, which you put out there. And that's what I felt when I decided to start climbing and learning and gaining experience. you know That book gave me the dream. And I said, if this is a goal of mine, I thought to be in the big leagues of Himalayan mountain climbing, I thought 10 years. you know I wasn't in a hurry. I said, I want to take my time. I want to do it in the right way. I want to learn what I need to learn. I gave myself a 10-year window. right And that's a long time. But as an apprentice, I don't think that's too long.
00:37:53
Speaker
And I moved to Seattle. And like you said, in those days, there was no internet. It was reader boards at ah and an outdoor shop, people looking for climbing partners. yep And I started to collect phone numbers. And I said, you know I know nothing. If you're willing to take me, I'm willing to go. I'll be on your rope. And I just learned from others that were willing to teach me you know by gaining experience, by watching, by listening. I didn't take any courses. I didn't take take any classes.
00:38:21
Speaker
And then eventually, you know, I learned enough to become a guide. And I learned more as a guide through the mentorship and the apprenticeship program that we had on
Career Transition to Climbing
00:38:31
Speaker
Mount Rainier. You know, there were the super senior guides, the senior guides. And then I was the first year guide and I was called a peon, right? And you scrub the toilets and you sweep the floor and you wax the boots. That's basic apprenticeship. But you mode lose lawn.
00:38:49
Speaker
Mowglu's lawn, you know, whatever. I didn't care. I was like, I'm living the dream. I'm hanging out with these superstar mountain climbers, right? yeah yeah And you slowly take your time and you work your way up the ladder of experience. I climbed higher and higher mountains and I just enjoyed it. And I took my time. And you put yourself out there and you called people and said, I don't know anything, but I will go with you. Like, I mean, not not everyone can do that. Like that's already like,
00:39:19
Speaker
You know, just just on the personal bravery scale of things, when you're a young, let's quote, unquote, nobody, and not not to diminish the nobodies, the peons, I mean, that's a big step to just put yourself out there. And and not everyone can do that, but but we all did that. like And I think that people fail to remember that Ed Visters did that, right? Like, you did that.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah, you don't just arrive, right? right and And that's true with any you know person of note, whether it's a movie star or a rock band, or they don't just come and become famous. They've been in the garage for years. They've been doing it underground for years. And then all of a sudden, somehow,
00:40:02
Speaker
You become notable right and i remember in my early days when i was seeking sponsors to try to do my endeavor project you know and i would make cold calls to hundreds of phone companies and and you know somebody would answer and they i'd they'd say who is this night say my name is ed viesters and they say ed who.
00:40:24
Speaker
Right so that became my nickname and who was nobody had a clue and it. I didn't have a ah resume at that point and that became the biggest hurdle right.
00:40:36
Speaker
yeah Nobody knew me, nobody knew what I was doing, why I was doing it. And that was a huge part of what I tried to do. How do you become a professional climber to support yourself financially so that you can go do what you do? and It doesn't happen much in the US, right? No. in In Europe, it was a much easier thing because mountains are such a big part of the culture in Europe.
00:41:00
Speaker
yeah And mountaineers are looked up to and they're revered and they're famous and it's not true in the US. No, no. And especially at that time, I mean, obviously, like, especially with rock climbing being in the Olympics and things, I mean, the the landscape is for sure changing. But, you know, you maybe correct me if I get the dates wrong, but you climbed Everest in 90 or 92.
00:41:25
Speaker
1990, my first ascent to the summit. 1990. And if I'm not mistaken, it was not long after that where you said, OK, I'm going to do this Endeavor 8000. I'm going to climb all 14 8000 meter peaks in the world. I've climbed the highest one. The rest are lower than this. Was it like that or tell me about that? Maybe.
00:41:45
Speaker
Well, after I climbed Everest, um you know, I had two attempts on Everest first, 87, 88, 89, I got invited by Lou Whitaker to go to Kanjin Junga. And he organized and he raised the money. And I and I've learned from people like Lou and people like Eric Simonson, how do you run an expedition?
00:42:11
Speaker
How do you organize it? How do you fund it? How do you manage it? How do you lead a team? How do you put a team together? And it was in 89 that on Lou's team, we reached the summit of Kanjinjunga. So there was my very first summit of an 8,000 meter peak. And what an amazing mountain. Kanjinj is like one of my favorite mountains in the world.
00:42:33
Speaker
I mean, it it was it was so spectacular. And I remember on the summit, you know, two years earlier, I turned around 300 feet from the top of Everest. And from the summit of Kanjin Junga, you can see Everest 80 miles away. And I'm like, oh, 300 feet of unfinished business. You know, that was. And the next year, Jim Whitaker invited me to go to Everest. And that's where I reached the summit.
00:42:59
Speaker
And the following year, I guided Everest going to the summit again. And it was after that, I thought, what am I going to do now? What what was my plan, right? I was kind of getting invitations, but I was still My career was as a veterinarian. I went to college and medical school. So I was half-time working as a vet, half-time going expeditioning. And it came to a point where I had to make a decision. I couldn't do both, right? How do I maintain ah a job as a veterinarian working for somebody? it's it's I can't get three months off every year. So I said, I've got to make a decision. So I said, I'm going to opt for climbing mountains for a while.
00:43:43
Speaker
And it was right after that in 92 that I climbed K2 with Scott Fisher. yeah So I had the three highest mountains in the world under my belt. And I hadn't planned for that. It wasn't like, I'm going to do the three highest. It just happened. right And I thought that was random. What do I want to do now? yeah And I said, I want to make this a goal. you know Why not like Messner and Kukushka go climb all 14? I'd done three. There's only 11 left.
00:44:13
Speaker
and and only eleven Well, you know, I joke about it, right right but i love that there's only 11 left. And I said, that's my goal. And and and in all fairness, most of them are significantly easier than those three.
Sponsorship and Professional Climbing
00:44:28
Speaker
So, I mean, there is a big difference between, you know, Choyu and K2.
00:44:33
Speaker
Yeah, but still, they're big mountains, they're high altitude. you know And my track record through the years was was two out of three successes, right? yeah Which isn't bound. that's great But there's never a guarantee of success. And I always say that, you cannot guarantee success. And then that became my vision. And that that and then I was full on immersion into 8,000 meter climbing.
00:45:00
Speaker
And so you know i I just want people to understand what the landscape was like in 1991, 1992. Let's see, there was Climbing Magazine, there was Rock and Ice Magazine. I bet each of those had subscriptions of like roughly, i you know Rock and Ice's subscription was probably 2,000 to 4,000 subscribers. Climbing was probably double that, maybe. you know You're calling people up for sponsorships. You're Ed Who.
00:45:27
Speaker
You know, climbing is not a sport in the United States. Yeah. And you're trying to fundraise for mountains that are not Mount Everest, right? Absolutely. Which makes it, you know, a factor of 100 harder. And yeah so, you know, how did, how did you actually, and then and, you know, you're married, you've got a professional career. I mean, a veterinarian, a doctor of veterinary medicine, you maybe, I'm just doing the quick math. You didn't have kids yet.
00:45:57
Speaker
No, I wasn't married yet either. You weren't married yet, didn't have kids yet, but you you launched off on this this thing and it would have been extremely difficult to do this at that time. It was raising the money and running it as like a quote unquote business. I knew and ultimately was way harder than climbing. yeah i How do I approach people? How do I convince them to give me money? yeah And what I learned along the way is, you know I talked to so many people that had contributed to expeditions. They said, we gave this team equipment, we we provided money, but in the end, they never heard back.
00:46:36
Speaker
So it was a very one-sided event. And I knew that for me to garner support, long-term financial support,
00:46:47
Speaker
the people that were investing in me, these these companies would have to get some sort of return on investment. yeah right It had to be worth their, they didn't just like me or want me to go climbing. they They're saying, what do I get out of this? And in return, you have to make promises. like I will help grow your brand. I will be a spokesperson. I'll go to climbing shops and do slide shows. I will go to your sales meeting. I'll help design and develop.
00:47:15
Speaker
And as long as they finally found out that you lived up to your promises and you gave them a return. That's how I garnered long term support, yeah but it didn't happen quickly and there were.
00:47:29
Speaker
many times where I had moments of doubt thinking, what did I do? I gave up a career as a veterinarian so I could sit here in my basement trying to raise money. I was paying more in phone bills than I was earning from financial support. And I was like, you're an idiot, right right? But it's like running a startup. There's a lot of guys that step away from a safe career and they say, I'm going to create this startup. This is my dream. This is my vision.
00:47:58
Speaker
And they as well struggle and they as well look for so financial support, right? And if as long as you're you keep that climbing attitude, like, I'm going to have some good days, I'm going to have a lot of bad days, but it's that long-term vision that kind of gets you through that.
00:48:16
Speaker
I just want people to pause and recognize that you know you for anyone who is appreciated a professional climber of any brand of any type, you know they have a new part to thank for that because you are one of the trailbers trailblazers in this area. you know I certainly have you to thank for that. in the ninety s this It just wasn't a thing that there were sponsored professional climbers. There just weren't any. I mean, in in the mid-90s, the first real kind of splash, as as you will recall, you know with Alex Lowe and Conrad Inker and Greg Child, the North Face Dream Team, you know that was kind of, what i was that, maybe 96, 97.
00:48:56
Speaker
But you know meanwhile, you've already been doing this for a few years. And it was hard. And you know I think there's two sides to this. One, I think it's hard. And the other thing that I think people underestimate is how cheaply you can do can do these trips, especially these lesser known peaks. People were always blown away. Most of my expeditions cost less than $10,000 for the whole team, including airfare. because we yeah we didn't go to peaks that had big expensive permits. We went to peaks where the permit was $50. And we'd look at like how far the approach was, because a two-week approach is a lot more expensive than a two-day or four-day or six-day approach. So you know and some many you know so these these things can factor in, and now like you know you you can do these things for less than a fortune. I think people see the $100,000 for Everest, and they just assume that all mountain big mountains cost $100,000. But it's just not the case. So you're you you know in your startup mentality, you're doing both. You're you're cutting costs. You're doing things on the cheap. And you're you know collecting as much money ah as you can. And somehow somehow, you get just enough, yeah right? That's sort of the beauty of it. You've got to raise a ah collection of income from all the, but hopefully, supporters that you have. And with that income,
00:50:14
Speaker
ah you pay for expeditions, but you also live on that income. So that's kind of what it means to be a professional climber. yeah But you're not getting paid to climb, you're earning the money doing other things so that you can pay for your climbing. They're not like, how much does that expedition cost Ed? They don't write a check for that. They're they're writing a check to you to work for them. yeah And one of the first,
00:50:42
Speaker
long term supporters that I had was mountain hardware. And this was in 1993. Okay. They were tiny then. Oh, they were zero. They had just started. okay And a with a friend of mine from Guiding, John Cumming, ah his father was the main bankroll for this group as a startup. And it was John that called me one morning out of the blue and said, Ed, we're starting this brand. It's called Mountain Hardware. These people know what they're doing. We're gonna, you know,
00:51:18
Speaker
put a wedge into the outdoor industry you know nobody needs another outdoor brand but we're gonna do it and we want you to be our athlete cool and for me that moment was ah turning point like oh my god.
00:51:34
Speaker
John was my Messiah calling me and inviting me to be a part of that brand. And I said, finally, somebody recognizes the value of not only what I'm doing, but what I can contribute. And that was a huge moment for me.
00:51:51
Speaker
That must have been really affirming to you, too. It was. And it was finally that proverbial snowball started to get bigger in a good way. It was rolling now, and things were starting to build. So tell me about that moment that, and maybe it wasn't a moment, maybe I'm oversimplifying, where you decided you were going to do this Endeavor 8000. You're going to step back from your career as a vet.
00:52:21
Speaker
It's like, that's quite a thing, right? like let's say it' just like How did that happen? Like, how did you think through that? How did you decide for that? How did you, I don't really want to use this word, but how did you justify that?
00:52:37
Speaker
Nobody done that. Nobody in the US was doing that. yeah and like it doesn't make It makes no sense, right? like There's no logical argument for that. yeah like I'm sure you didn't have a business plan. like Mountain Harbor will start a new brand. My friend John will start a new company, and they'll need an athlete. And I'm just going to like hang on until he calls me, and I'm going to sit by my phone every day.
00:52:57
Speaker
it's Luck fortune and karma i don't know i mean it's when i made the decision i mean i had to think long and hard and that and fortunately the two people that i was working for as a veterinarian. um I had known them for years they they had their own clinics and they said add when you get out of school. Come work for us right so i had jobs.
00:53:23
Speaker
And I loved it. I really enjoyed it, but I still loved and enjoyed mountaineering. And I knew it was going to be challenging, you know, going to these guys every several months saying, hey, can I have three months off? I got this invitation to go to Everest or I'm planning to do this.
00:53:42
Speaker
And it worked okay for a couple of years. And then they finally, and I kind of had the feeling too, they were like, okay, make a decision, right? There's a fork in the load. You either got to go right or you got to go left. And I thought, I can't do both things and do them well. And I had to choose one.
00:54:02
Speaker
So I kind of made the decision, okay, I'm gonna put my career as a veterinarian aside for a while, quote unquote, and just see how it goes. Like you said, I'm in a basement making phone calls, thinking to myself, why did I do this? And and had a lot of doubtful moments. And I just kept going thinking, it's gotta work, it's gonna work, it has to work, I want it to work.
00:54:30
Speaker
And I knew it wasn't going to happen quickly. And I just kind of pieced it together for a while. You know, I was working as a carpenter and I'd have a short sponsorship by somebody and then another short one, but it wasn't anything long term, right? Something that I couldn't. Oh, guiding gig here and there, baby.
00:54:48
Speaker
hiding, you know just putting just scraping it together. and And being single at the time, I didn't have huge expenses. you know My biggest expenses might be going on an expedition. And yeah and fortunately, in my first few expedition, I was invited to go, and they were fully funded. yeah But then when you start thinking about, I'm putting my own trips together, how do I pay for those, let alone pay to my rent, my my grocery bill, my car payment?
00:55:17
Speaker
And then, you know, things somehow started to click. But what was the driver for you? Like what pushed you into that decision? I mean, you said that there's the fork in the road, but was it like what I want to see if I can actually do all 14? Was it, I want to see how good I can become at this. I want to be, I want to see if I can make a living. Like what was the essence of that?
Personal Fulfillment and Safety
00:55:40
Speaker
It was to complete what I decided I wanted to do once I, Like I said, when I get fixated, I get kind of stubborn and I like to see something completed. you know I'll push as hard as I can to finish that project. And this became this dream project for me. you know This kid from Illinois, I'm in the Himalaya mountaineering arena now. Can I do this? The mysterious part was the physical, the mental, the climbing without oxygen, the journey.
00:56:14
Speaker
And it was fun. You know, I really enjoyed it too. And I said, this is something I want to try to do. And if I could maybe emulate people like Messner or other climbers that were European that were able to do it, how do I take that ingredient or or recipe that they're using in Europe and try to bring it here to the US? But again, the hard part was, you know,
00:56:43
Speaker
products are consumer driven, right? and And TV and commercials are driven by who's watching, you know, that's football, baseball, basketball. Those are the big earners in sports, right? Eyeballs, attention. Mountaineering in the U.S. is tiny and it's all about eyeballs and it's all about marketing.
00:57:03
Speaker
how to mountaineering is, I mean climbing is already boring enough, but yeah how to mountaineering is by far the most boring. Watching somebody walk up a hill taking 50 breaths for a step is is not exact, it's pretty much the same as paint drying.
00:57:19
Speaker
It is, it is or slower or slower. And I joke, I think, you know, if if mountaineering was on TV, I could at least be a color commentator, but you know, it's not going to happen. So how did you reach a point where you really struggled with the balance between sort of the commercialization of yourself as a, as a, in your personal brand and what, and and like what you were personally comfortable with?
00:57:46
Speaker
did you know How did that play out for you in your career? The biggest and most important thing was once I had kind of a reputation of how I did what I did, right? Conservative, I'm not a risk taker, you know, I'm not a cowboy, I'm not a lot of glitz and glamour and, and you know, big talker. ah I made sure that the people, the companies that I was working with, they understood that in the story and the messaging.
00:58:19
Speaker
And believe it or not, especially the ones that I kind of focused on, they loved that storyline. This is going to take a while, right? This is all about planning and preparation and and embracing the journey.
00:58:35
Speaker
And then I felt, okay, we are on the same page. You're not pushing me to succeed because you want me to get to the top so that you can throw my picture in outside magazine or whatever. and And I made that clear from the get go.
00:58:51
Speaker
and And I was very careful to select the companies that I felt had the values, not just because they were going to support me, but they had those values and that understanding. But I do talk about, as well, further on in my career, and I saw that in my peer group, where you get closer to your goal, you have all this support,
00:59:16
Speaker
yeah And you have by then a fan base and today the big issue is social media sure and i call all of that those outside influences which create pressure.
00:59:30
Speaker
not only your own pressure, but outside pressure, which could cause you to start to make decisions that you normally wouldn't make. yeah Right. And people start stepping over the edge because they're thinking of others rather than thinking about themselves. And I had to put blinders on literally blinders to protect myself and just remember all the time that I was doing it for me not doing it to please others you know they can applaud me they can criticize me you literally tell yourself I don't care I have to please myself
01:00:07
Speaker
and remember your foundation, right? How did you start climbing? why are you Why did you begin climbing? And just remember that throughout your whole career. But it gets tougher and you can see how, I saw how it affected
Life-Changing Impact of Climbing
01:00:20
Speaker
other climbers. you know they're going for They doing 8,000 meter peaks too, some of these European guys, and they would vanish on number 14 and climbing in bad weather, you know pushing beyond what was normal,
01:00:34
Speaker
and they would die trying to complete their goal. And I think a lot of it had to do with those outside influences. Yeah, there's so much wisdom in what you've just said. ah The one point that I want to come back to is that that point about authenticity early on where you're, you know, I think what are the misconceptions young climbers have that at least the ones I talked to are coming to me and being like, I want to be like, you know, a professional climber, and duda and they think they got to be famous somehow. um yeah And then of course, everybody will just throw them, all the companies will throw themselves at them. And i'm I'm saying, and I always say, no, like, you know, just exactly what you said, you need to be authentically you,
01:01:21
Speaker
And then the there may or may not, I don't know, be a brand who says, ah you know, because you got to put yourself in the brand's perspective. They have messaging that they want. They have something that they particularly want to be associated with, but they also have a whole lot they don't want to be associated with.
01:01:39
Speaker
As a brand, it's very hard, actually, to find the right ambassadors because people are complicated and the you know and people can be messy. you You doubled out on you. Nobody else can do you. Only you can do you and you can be authentic with that. And if somebody says, hey, we want to be associated with that, we want our clothing brand or our watch brand or whatever to be associated with your Ethic with your what you stand for what you what you what you? accomplish Yeah, then not now you're now you're good And you know like you've and I both have had very long term like I was Patagonia 23 years I ended out on my terms you know in ah and a friendly handshake like all good kind of way and That's what you want like in this in the at least for me like that's what I wanted And I think that the younger people that I see they they miss that point
01:02:36
Speaker
so i'm i'm really glad to hear you say say that and i think there's a big difference between famous. And having fortune you know people always immediately think that once you're famous.
01:02:51
Speaker
the checks are just coming in the mail. And it's not true, right? You could be the most famous Instagram blogger in the world that, how do you garner the income to do that? There's a huge difference. So there is a misconception there as well. You got to earn what you get. You really got to earn it. Here's something I've always wanted to ask you, Ed, because I've always looked at you as ah you know this very authentic and Introspective person and I've always kind of identified with that part of you, you know and maybe this is an oversimplification, but There's there's sometimes where i' I watched your career and it felt like there's you know Steady eddy getting the job done Like kind of almost this blue collar and I mean that in the best possible way like showing up doing the job like Everything's done to spec
01:03:50
Speaker
and Going home and then there's also part of me that always felt like man. This guy's on a vision class Like he's just out he's like out there because you know yeah climbing 14 Peaks isn't just 14 Expeditions. I mean, I don't know how many expeditions you actually went on but it's far more than 14 I'm sure of that and so yeah it takes a lot of that showing up over and over and over again Like yeah, what what is true? It was both I mean, I had, you know, this vision. And for me, again, it was a ah personal goal. I didn't. Again, I wasn't doing it to be the first American. I didn't do it to become the fifth person. I i said, I want to be the first ad vistas because this is something I personally decided to do. That was the only reason. Right. And people always said, oh, you want to be the first or whatever. and I go, no, I don't care.
01:04:47
Speaker
but That's not a good reason. The reason is is I love doing this. The reason is I set up this goal. I want to challenge myself. And and you're right. Ultimately, to do the 14, I went on 21 expeditions to do the 14. And eventually, I went on 30 Himalayan expeditions with 22 8,000 meter summits. Again, two out of three.
01:05:11
Speaker
but I love doing it. I really loved the adventure and the camaraderie and the journey and man had so much fun. Yeah. We worked hard. We we struggled, um, but it became the fabric of my life. It did, you know, and they're preparing and the talking about and the working for that was my life, yeah you know, and, and I loved it. I have no regrets.
01:05:39
Speaker
How did you wrestle with the meaning of what you were doing? Well, you know, if you look at it, really, there's no meaning, right? You're you're going to a big piece of rock and snow and ice and trying to get yourself to the top. yeah The meaning of it is you choose to live your life in a way that fulfills you, right? and and And it doesn't matter what it is, whether it's a business career, whether it's a climbing career. I tell young people, I tell my kids, do and follow the direction that draws you, right?
01:06:10
Speaker
Don't try to think. and And I think this is normal, especially when I was was growing up. The plan is you go to school, you go to college, you get a job so that you can retire. Right. That is the normal path. And once you leave that normal path, you know, people are scratching their head going, Ed's moving to Seattle and he's going to go climb mountains. Right. That was abnormal. Yeah, for sure. And I have a lot of friends that I went to high school with, and they now say, Ed, you're the only guy I know that had a dream and lived a dream, right? That you kind of had the the courage to step out of the box, right? And that's okay, you know? um As long as you're doing something that satisfies you, I think that's the best reason in the world to do whatever you want to do.
01:07:00
Speaker
There's a lot of mental stuff going on, right? A lot of calculating, a lot of thinking. So it is very cerebral. Uh, you know, there's a spiritual part. I'm not super spiritual that I learned from the ah Sherpa who are Buddhists, you know, they revere the mountains as entities. yeah And I think that gives you a sense of humility when you're on a mountain, you know, you tread lightly and you climb with respect and with honor.
01:07:29
Speaker
And if you're at the right place at the right time with the right attitude, you know the mountain opens the gates and it allows you to go to the top. and And I think about when I'm there that this thing is feeling me, it's listening to me.
01:07:45
Speaker
And every time I walk away from a mountain, you know that last glimpse I get as I'm walking home, I turn around and I say, thank you. you know Thank you for what you gave me. you know Because every event like that changes your life.
Balancing Passion with Practical Concerns
01:08:01
Speaker
um And that's what I love about guiding. you know You take people into the mountains. When they go home, they're different.
01:08:07
Speaker
in a good way, right? They discovered something about themselves that they didn't know was in there. and And that's a cool thing to see how their eyes light up when they're on the summit and they go home and they go, wow, that was an amazing event. Like you go on these journeys and you come back and you're different in a good way.
01:08:26
Speaker
I like doesn't have to be any more quantifiable than that. It's very satisfying. It really is. It is. It is. But again, that's, that's, that's a thing that you selected to do and everybody gets satisfied in different ways. You know, whatever career path, whatever journey you're on, hopefully it's something that you're passionate about because that then gives you satisfaction.
01:08:50
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I have to admit that I am skeptical of this advice about following your passion because, you know, to certain point, some of it, and ah speaking as a person who did that, like some of it is bullshit because you there's also a middle way.
01:09:06
Speaker
like I think that there is also a way to be like, okay, I'm going to go to school and I'm going to get a skill. I'm going to find some competency I have. I'm going to, I'm going to enrich that competency through some further training or education and to get really good at it to where I can be like one of the top performers in that area. I'm going to charge a lot of money for doing that and I'm going to go and I'm going to work for myself and I'm going to go climb mountains once a year but or whatever. Like, so and you know, because I think that,
01:09:36
Speaker
You know, it's easy for us to look at your career or, you know, you're, you're, will you know, you were the one that made it. Like there were how many Ed Viesters were there that went out to Seattle or a similar place and tried to do a similar journey. And at one of those moments when it got hard, whether it was in their basement or whether it was at guide tryouts on Rainier or Who knows what point they said, you know, no, I can't do it. Like, you know, like we're talking about that, that instinct of when you turn around on a climb, it's the same thing in life. They, they came up, I don't know, with the reason you could call it an excuse, you could call it a justification, whatever you call it. And there was probably hundreds of adversaries that had that dream. I would, I would, and one did it.
01:10:24
Speaker
Right. And so, you know, there's a lot of a lot of variation in there. There's a lot of room for, I think, expression. and i And one of the things it's tricky for me with Voice of the Mountains in particular, because I'm bringing you on and, you know, I know all these famous mountaineers and you guys are all, so you know, had all these experiences, which has given you a lot of wisdom and I wanted to elevate that. And at the same time, I don't want people who haven't been able to have that lucky break.
01:10:53
Speaker
And there is a component of luck, let's be frank. yeah I don't want to diminish their journey either. like They still love the mountains just as much as you do or I did. and it You know, there is wisdom there too. I just i just want to want to call that out because I'm always skeptical of whether whether it's being reflected on me or being reflected on you or any one of our peers that like, oh, we're we're shining this, we're putting out on this pedestal now. And I know you don't like that either. And that's why I know that I'm comfortable saying this to you because yeah it's it's more complex than that, right? Like there's there's way more to, you know, living the life that you lived or living the life that I lived.
01:11:33
Speaker
I agree and and I think you're right. there' There's the the combination, like you said, you get a ah certain career and I could have done that as well. I could have stayed on the path of being a veterinarian and maybe once every two or three years, I could have gone climbing, right? And could have had fun, as much fun as I had. I could have had a solid, stable financial career and and that's a great combination and I agree with you. There are so many friends that I have that I take into the mountains that are doing that, people that I talk to and I go, wow, you've you've allowed yourself the flexibility and you have the resources to go do that.
Mentorship and Community in Climbing
01:12:15
Speaker
When I was thinking about how I wanted to do it, I could have gone that path, but I just for some reason thought to be at the level that I wanted to be at, I needed
01:12:26
Speaker
full immersion, you know, ah like full commitment, training. And that's all I was thinking about. And that's the course that I took. And, you know, it you know and you're right, it was putting the pieces together there was luck involved i could have washed out i could have failed i could have lost motivation all those things could happen i'm somehow. It came together and it is that you know but to me that was a dream you know and it was a. ah
01:12:59
Speaker
When I got to the summit of Annapurna, the 14th, I said, oh my God, I have lived my dream. I really did. you know and i'm And I'm so happy that you know I could have gone in multiple directions. That's just the direction I chose. yeah And what got to me through that was I loved doing it.
01:13:20
Speaker
yeah That's not to be underestimated. You have to to get that far, for for one. like yeah you know You're not playing the game just because you want to win. You're playing the game because you love playing the game. You love climbing the mountain. You're not there just because you love standing on the summit. You love the act of climbing. Yeah, absolutely. And there was something in you that you called out, and I want to dig into that was like you said, you you needed to be fully immersed for you.
01:13:47
Speaker
Like you needed to be that all in. And I identify with that completely. I did exactly the same thing. What does that voice sound like in Ed Vister's head in 1992 or whenever it was that was talking to you? but By full immersion, I knew.
01:14:03
Speaker
how hard it would be right just you know and i you'll ah ah talk about you know the fact that somebody ran a two hour and five minute marathon right train for it did it doesn't mean it's gonna happen again unless they trained for it unless they have the mental fortitude to do it again right just cuz you climbed ever swans without oxygen doesn't mean it's automatically gonna happen again you gotta start at zero.
01:14:29
Speaker
train just as hard be mentally just as prepared to do it again and to do it again and that is always the mystery right and that was to me the motivator um and that's why i thought man if i want to do this at that level not only to be successful but more importantly to be safe And to be safe, you've got to be strong. You have to have the endurance. You have to have prepared. And that was, for me, more important than anything. How do I make sure that this is a round trip? And there's a lot of things that go into making sure that it's a round trip, not just getting to the top, but doing the downhill part as well.
01:15:11
Speaker
And I think that is what caused me to want to be fully immersed, right? How do I be the best? And also how do I make sure I'm as ready as I can be? The round trip, like that is part of your core. but Like that's been part of you since it seems like the very beginning. Like what what was that? Like who was that telling you that you had to come home?
01:15:36
Speaker
Cause not everybody has that. I always just knew, I thought personally being alive is the greatest thing in the world, right? Being alive, just because I love climbing, I don't love it more than being alive, right? And and as long as you have that in your head that this is an event I've chosen to participate in,
01:16:00
Speaker
I get to make the rules you know how hard i'm gonna push how much risk i'm willing to take who i'm gonna go with all those things are are how i thought about because i said my number one goal is to get home and you have to have that in your head from the beginning i don't know that people can teach you that, you know, you tell your kids to be careful and don't do this or be, and of course they're going to do it, right? They're going to make mistakes. They're going to have little accidents along the way. and And you kind of learn from that. Um, sometimes it's, it's a thing that you have without anybody telling you. And I think I kind of had that without anybody telling me, and I don't know why you you don't know why. Okay. That's which is fair. Yeah. But that, that was there. And yeah, I feel like there's this sort of,
01:16:56
Speaker
modern existential crisis going on among the mountaineering community. And, you know, I think it's maybe, you know, I'm imagining a sort of a Venn diagram and they're sort of, you know, white privilege slash guilt, maybe, and there is maybe not having a purpose. And the way, say, the the Great War generation did, like,
01:17:18
Speaker
life doesn't, like the meaning of life seems much more ambiguous now, you know, we're always being told that everything we're doing is killing our planet. There's this sense, like there's this sense of, I think, kind of hopelessness and dread that that people have. I mean, what,
01:17:40
Speaker
What else is fueling that? Like I feel like when I see people and when I talk to people in the mountains that this is what they're talking about. This is what they're feeling. This is what they're living. This is what's on their minds. Do you have a similar experience or what are you seeing out there? What are you hearing? I think the cool part is if you go onto a ah ah journey in the mountains with either your climbing partners or the people you're guiding,
01:18:06
Speaker
you kind of know what you know. And then you walk away and you have this connection that you're never gonna forget, you're never gonna lose. And you can just meet somebody five years later and go, God, remember that trip we went on. And it's just a wink. And you go, and it's so hard to explain to others what that event meant, right? The thing that you went through together.
01:18:32
Speaker
um you know there's the brotherhood brotherhood of the rope right or the peoplehood maybe we should call it the peoplehood or the personhood but there's a there's a camaraderie you know the the struggle you went through the joy the ups the downs the hardship it's a cool process and it's a it's a cool event and it's memories too that fill your life right looking back on all those amazing memories And we just had a ah memorial service for Lou Whitaker who passed, you know, living 95 years and all the guides that worked for him came to that event. And it was, I mean, it was an amazing moment to see the apprenticeship pyramid that he created, right?
Purposeful Life and Legacy
01:19:21
Speaker
Pyramid that he was the top of that trickled down to the next level, to the next level, to the next level.
01:19:28
Speaker
everybody learning from everybody else. And and that was ah an amazing unity. And and thankfully, you know we had this reunion because of Lou Whitaker who created this this brotherhood that we had on Mount Rainier. And you had that not because of his death, but because of his life. Because of his life, yeah. It was a celebration of life. And what you what but what he created during his life meant that all those people came together. Like, those people wouldn't have come together if it hadn't been for RMI, all those expeditions, all the things that he did. Like, I mean, the list goes on and on. I mean, what an what an incredible thing to witness. I mean, that's that's that's meaningful, right? Like, you can't say that's not meaningful. That is and that is intensely meaningful.
01:20:18
Speaker
He was a giant magnet and an amazing teacher. And you know, I was there 40 years ago and some of the guides I'd worked with, I hadn't seen for 40 years. You know, and we got gray here now. And, you know, it it was like, dude, you know, remember what, and and you know, it was like a bunch of kids at camp again. Right. Yeah. yeah yeah Anyway, it was a he was ah an an amazing man. and And the effect that he had, I mean, not only with climbers, but the general public. I mean, the stories he told, you know, people would go, oh, my God, who's telling a story? And it it would he just he was spreading the word of
01:20:54
Speaker
just go do what you do and be happy and adventure and and you know it was this very fulfilling message that that he had for anybody. You know I want to connect that back and then hit like that life as an example of a life lived with a lot of purpose and meaning that was yeah climbing mountains, which a minute ago we said had no purpose or meaning, right? So, yeah you know, i think that I think that we can, you know, solace ourselves a little bit with with that.
Battling Inner Critic and Inspiring Others
01:21:26
Speaker
One of the things I've been wanting to ask you and is, you know, for me in my experience, you know, especially young, you know, younger and through my thirties and I kind of like finally wrestled this more my forties was this inner critic, you know, this voice.
01:21:43
Speaker
that I wasn't enough, that I wasn't worthwhile, that I wasn't worth anything. and And now at uphill athlete, I hear this all the time with people like, yeah, I'm thinking about a coach, but I don't think I'm worth coaching. Did you have this inner critic at some point? Did you wrestle this too? I've always wanted to ask you. You know, that it's kind of a double edged sword. You know, I did what I did. Is there a reason for climbing?
01:22:10
Speaker
not in the scheme of the planetary scope of anything, you know um but my wife kind of reminds me all the time that because of what I did and because of what I talk about now,
01:22:25
Speaker
It inspires people. And if anything, that is very rewarding, very satisfying. If I could be you know like this person people look out up to, not that they're maybe going to go climb mountains, but de I created ah a path that they might be able to follow in a different way, in a different arena.
01:22:48
Speaker
By the inspiration that i provided that you can do something really hard right you invest in it you take your time you don't take a shortcut and And I think that those are very rewarding and very satisfying. And I never, ever thought that because of my book, you know, people were inspired. I was inspired by a book. I was going to say it feels pretty full circle to me. I mean, even that you live the life that you can write an autobiography and that people read it a lot of people read it. Like that's already, like, I mean, that says something about, you know, what you've done.
Autobiography and Life Lessons
01:23:25
Speaker
And I'd never planned on writing a book. It was never a part of my end goal. But it was David Roberts who co-wrote it with me said, Ed, you've got to tell your story. You have to write about this. yeah And I wanted to make sure there was messaging in there, not just me you know going to camp, setting up camp, breaking camp. there there had to I wanted people to come on the journey with me. yeah yeah How cold was I? What food did I eat? How did I go to the bathroom?
01:23:54
Speaker
what conversations that I had, you know, so you take people with you yeah and and then they get the metaphor of climbing, right? We're all climbing. And and that's an amazing story that I was able hopefully to share ah with others. And I do that now when I'm speaking as well. yeah you You talk to a sales team and they're like, what's a mountain climber going to tell me, right?
01:24:20
Speaker
how to go on a journey, how to struggle, how to embrace you know what you're doing and and look at the long-term goal, but to break it down into something that's consumable. And how to stay authentic to what you actually who you are and what you're doing. Yeah, for sure.
01:24:38
Speaker
You know, I've i've heard you you speak. You're an incredible speaker. And you've when I heard you, you used this quote from the René Domel's Mount Analog. And one line from that quote is, there is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up. You actually ended your talk with that.
01:25:01
Speaker
How does that manifest for you? How do you teach people to bring what they so saw how higher up into the lower regions as he has he wrote? it's It's a big part about how you got to the top. For me, the message, the title of my book, no shortcuts to the top. but right I think people are always looking for a shortcut.
01:25:23
Speaker
How do I do it faster, or cheaper? How do I cut corners? you know But you're missing the point. And and it's it's getting there, taking your time, learning, being with people. and and But also, when you do get to the top, when you reach your goal, to be proud about how you got there. you know That trail of footprints you left behind, how did you treat people?
Public Speaking and Business Connections
01:25:53
Speaker
You know, were you honest? Did you maintain humility? Did you remember your core values? Are you proud about that instead of having regrets? And I think that's an important way to think about, you know, how you, when you're on or at sea level after climbing a mountain,
01:26:15
Speaker
to remember that and and and it it gives you a foundation of then how you go through the rest of your life. yeah um you know and And the story is those that are above can see what's below, but those that are below don't know what's above. And there's that mystery. That's part of the reason we climb.
01:26:35
Speaker
you know you You want to look over the ridge, right? You want to see what it looks like from the summit looking down the other. That's that's what draws you is that vision. yeah I mean, to this day, that's one of my favorite things about mountaineering is just going to all these different little intricate pieces of topography around the globe and looking over the ridge and seeing what's down there and climbing up here and seeing what's down there. It's like standing on the summit and looking around, being like, oh, yeah, I've been over there. and I've been over there. yeah Yeah, that's amazing that's an amazing part of the the journey. You've done a lot more you know sort of public and corporate speaking than I have, but one of the things that I've really enjoyed with the little bit I've been able to do is the people that I've met and I've actually learned more in going and meeting these people that exist in these totally different but parallel worlds in many ways, where they're following their passion, they're the best at what they do,
01:27:33
Speaker
It's a thing I didn't even know existed before maybe a few weeks ago. you know what are some ah and And you're nodding your head, you've met these people too, you've had these experiences. like who What are some of the things that you've learned or what are the some of the types of people that that you've met that have left an impression on you that you've been able to share time with through through this, through your ability to tell your story? you know When you meet entrepreneurs, you know like somebody that started a company that happened to read my book and that says, oh my God, these are all the things that we're going through.
01:28:08
Speaker
and I've struggled with and then they invite you to come and speak to their team and you can tell. Their enthusiastic their their collaborating right which is important the teamwork they know it's gonna be hard. ah but They are willing to struggle for that because they're they're so happy to be where they are.
01:28:30
Speaker
And when they come up to you afterwards ago i'm in the same position as you were a long time ago i'm just starting i'm just start learning and and what you told me about that step by step that day by day you know that that's given me energy and inspiration. and And those are the things you walk away with and and you're just as jazz does they are.
01:28:50
Speaker
you know when you're done because you can tell you affected them in a way, you know this this business world that something I thought I never would be doing is speaking to business people, um you know the inspirational part. I love talking to companies or groups that are looking for risk management decisions, right which was a ah big factor in our careers. How do you make those decisions based on risk. And there's a thing called smart risk, right? You've got to take a certain amount of risk, which is okay. But when do you take the risk, when what what risk isn't worth taking? And that that's not a black and white decision either. And that's kind of more of a personal thing. So it's just very interesting to meet all these people doing different things
01:29:40
Speaker
in a different arena, but with the similar kind of ingredients as they climb you know to the top. Yeah, and their instinct about the smart risk or when the smart risk is not smart anymore is probably no different than your instinct about the snow. They've just been there before. They've seen this they've seen this before. They don't know why, but they recognize a pattern because you know they spent 30 years and they had mentors. and lived a bunch. right I agree completely. I think it's so interesting to see as a, you know, you know, I think you and I in separate ways were just so laser focused on what we wanted to do with our climbing for so long. And it wasn't about being the best or I don't know, whatever. It was just about doing it and continuing to do it and getting trying to get better at it. It was more of a crass.
01:30:37
Speaker
person mentality, right? Like just yeah just try to always improve and always be better and always do a a great job and always do a job that you could be proud of and that kind of thing. And then you you go into these other parent worlds and it's just like, oh, this is this is humanity. Everyone saw all of it.
01:30:56
Speaker
There's ugly parts too, but there is a big part of humanity that is just out there doing exactly what you did or I did in our climbing, but they're doing it and in in business or in, you know, you know you I don't know if you're still working with them. You were working with the Seahawks for a while, right? yeah Playing professional football level football, like, you know, so many different ways that that can manifest and, you know,
01:31:24
Speaker
It's the same raw ingredients. It's dedication, it's passion, it's breath, it's steps, it's grinding, it's the currency of toil, it's the apprenticeship, it's all of these things that we've talked about are all the ingredients. It's so interesting how much of this overlaps.
Influence of Maurice Herzog
01:31:43
Speaker
You've you've often talked about the book Annapurna and you know thats it's an incredible book for anyone who hasn't read it.
01:31:51
Speaker
And you just have to remember when you're reading and that it was 1950, it was not like, you know, modern era. And did you know much about the rest of Maurice Herzog's life? You know, he was very successful. He was the mayor of Chamonix. He was, you know, the minister of sport. ah I mean extremely successful minister of sport for charles de gall the famous french president and then he was on the international olympic committee for like twenty five years. Yeah fifteen twenty five years i forget now but you know that's like the international olympic committee is what i think there's ten of them you know from each room.
01:32:30
Speaker
And they're deciding everything about how the Olympic Games are are where they are and all these things like incredibly influential and he had a massive influence not just on the sport of mountaineering but just think of he had a massive ah global influence on sport and he came from mountaineering and I think that.
01:32:49
Speaker
Our community sells itself short a lot that, oh you know, we're just we're just off here in the boondocks climbing our mountains. Nobody nobody cares about us. Heil to do mountaineering is boring. Climbing is dull to watch all this stuff. But there's plenty of stories like yourself, like Herzog where like.
01:33:07
Speaker
He literally affected every sport that's in the Olympics for those 25 years in some way. And yeah I'm sure he had an even bigger effect on mountain sports in France. Like, of course, he affected you and he affected me. But imagine the figure he was in France and how much ah already mountain-oriented culture was was driven even more to the mountains and all of that. that all that happened because of him going to the Nepal and and climbing a mountain for that nobody had ever climbed before. And of course, yeah paying dearly for for that. ah That's another story. ah He lost all his fingers and toes on that climb, but nevertheless, like,
01:33:49
Speaker
He went on to, you know, live a very long, very prosperous, very influential life. And I think we forget how many of these characters there are out there in our community. It's it's really interesting, really impressive. And I think we need to remember that.
01:34:07
Speaker
Well, you know, he says in the book, um, succinctly that Anna Perna changed his life, you know, changed his life in spite of the price he paid, you know, losing fingers and toes and and look what he did with his life.
01:34:21
Speaker
And I always say that that book he wrote changed my life, right? It completely, had I never read that book, you know, we wouldn't be talking right now. I would have not done what I, it's, you know, I always say, you know, young people are influenced by ah ah a mentor, a teacher, a parent, a book.
01:34:42
Speaker
something, right, that that puts you on a path. And you're like, how did I end up on this path? And I love the last sentence of the book, which I quote all the time, you know, there are other Annapurnas in the lives of men. um And we can paraphrase that, that, you know, I say we all have Annapurnas. And an Annapurna is a perfect metaphor For life or for business right it's this thing that you're your it's your goal it's your vision but it drives you right these and a furnace. Some of them we choose and i've had people that have read my book and i talk about annaur and apparently said listen i have cancer.
01:35:20
Speaker
Annapurna became my cancer or cancer became my Annapurna. And I knew it was going to be a struggle. But, you know, the inspiration that I got from reading your book is what got me through, you know, the chemotherapy or the struggle of being in the hospital. um and It's really amazing the stories that I've heard that where people take the word Annapurna and turn it into something positive, you know, really kind of cool. Yeah.
Life After Accomplishments
01:35:50
Speaker
what other anapurnas are there in at ver's life so you know, it's, you know, I've had to learn, you know, after that event, you know, you're done with a a gigantic 20 year event, right? How do you fill that space? um and And the big question I always get and and got was like, well, what's next, right? Oh, I hated that question. Always get it. Like, does there have to be a next, right? How do I outdo myself? And I think that can be scary. If you think you can outdo yourself,
01:36:24
Speaker
you're gonna have problems, right? ah You should go out on top and that's okay. And I'm quite happy climbing smaller mountains. I'm still guiding people, teaching people, which is very fulfilling, right? I still get to be physical. I get to go into the mountains. um We live in a wonderful place, Ketchum, Idaho. I see my kids romping around in that and the outdoors and living their lives. I mean, there's plenty to keep me busy.
01:36:53
Speaker
and plenty to fill that. that thing, that whole, um, I do miss it. I mean, I'm sure you do as well, the intensity and the, the, the, the, the all and full immersion part of it, but it's okay to just say, I'm going to do something else. and and And you can fill those gaps. You just got to think about what and where and how. And I think it's harder for other people than it is for you or for me, you know, because yeah they, they only see you as this guy that, you know, climbs 8,000 meter peaks.
01:37:26
Speaker
and And so that's, if you're not that, then they don't know what, like they need a label for you. They need to, they need to know who you are, what you, like, you know, and maybe, you you know, you say I'm a corporate speaker now, or I am going to like focus on my family, or I don't, you know, we have these, these things, but.
Living an Authentic Life and Legacy
01:37:45
Speaker
You know, I think that honestly, for me, one of my and answers has been I've been processing everything I experienced for those, you know, other 25 or 30 years, however many expeditions I did. i don't you know ah i'm I'm literally just still processing that, like mentally and physically processing what I just went through and what it all means and what I saw, what I did and what it happened and what didn't happen and like all the things, right? like
01:38:19
Speaker
yeah You talk about the intensity, and you know there's there's a lot of very, very but intense, and you know you've been in part in so many situations that have been you know not only dangerous, but have been involved in lots of tragedy, and we've both lost lots of friends to tragedy, and we've both been very close to some of those moments.
01:38:43
Speaker
And I think that you know there's all it's also just okay to be like, hey, i'm i'm still I'm actually still living all of that in a lot of ways, um and it's still with me, and I'm still figuring it out.
01:38:57
Speaker
And you're right. and And the thing you do is you you, like you, you're ready to write about it, probably. I mean, there's so much stuff in there that is important and worth sharing. yeah um Speaking to people, you know, sharing what you've learned, they're willing to listen. um It keeps it interesting because you're still kind of living it because you're talking about it and you're sharing it.
01:39:20
Speaker
um And I have to admit, you know through the last 10 years of what I was doing, you know i i I met my wife um and she was completely supportive of what I was doing. you know When I met her, she didn't know I was a mountain climber. It's not why she liked me or fell in love with me. She said, I like you for what you are and it's because of what you do.
01:39:44
Speaker
And she fully police supported and allowed me to keep living that life right because she believed in me and trusted in me and i think you go on these trips and these long adventures and it's it's hard fought you got these people at home that are.
01:40:01
Speaker
they become part of your team, right? They give you energy because they're they're thinking about you. yeah um And and those all that stuff is important too, right? Your family and your friends, they know what you're doing, your teammates. um and And I was very fortunate that I had all of that with me, you know, emotionally and physically and mentally as well. How do you want Ed Veeser to be remembered?
01:40:28
Speaker
you know, just having lived a life that I chose that, that was different, but that made me happy. And hopefully, um, I was humble and respectful for the mountains and the people that I was with, and I treated people well, and I have no regrets. Um, and that I just,
01:40:56
Speaker
kind of went out there and and honestly lived my dream. I mean, that to me was the most important thing for me, I think, just to to have this vision as a kid and somehow climb in that ladder.
01:41:14
Speaker
you know and and getting to the end. um And somehow poetically, you know I read this book, Annapurna, and the last peak on my list ended up being Annapurna, completely by accident.
01:41:28
Speaker
kind of a cool full circle life right there. Yeah, it is beautiful and it's very inspiring Ed. And, you know, I mean, you've you certainly inspired me and I've looked up to you for years and it's been really great to have this conversation with you. And I think what's important for me and how I want i you to be remembered is like as being authentic, you know, like as, you know, living, like you said, living your dream that comes through in every way. So thank you for doing that. I think that's really, really been a gift for me. So thank you. Well, thank you as well. I like that word authentic. It's a, it's a good word. Well, you've lived it. So thank you.
01:42:14
Speaker
Voice of the Mountains is a production of Uphill Athlete Incorporated. Our producer is Alyssa Clark. Sound engineering and editing is done by Christoph Lukasur. Voice of the Mountains is scripted and hosted by me, Steve House, with research and writing help from Jamie Lyko. Thank you for listening to Voice of the Mountains.