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Manaslu at 8000m with Martin Zhor
4.2k Plays8 days ago
In the latest episode of the Uphill Athlete Podcast, host Alyssa Clark welcomes coach and mountaineer Martin Zhor to discuss his recent climb of Manaslu, an 8,000-meter peak in the Himalayan mountains. The two discuss Martin’s lifelong dream of high-altitude climbing and details the challenges he faced in achieving this milestone. From years of endurance training and studying acclimatization strategies to overcoming logistical, physical, and mental hurdles, Martin provides an insightful look into his experiences in high altitude mountaineering. He emphasizes the unpredictable nature of such expeditions, the importance of preparation, and the sheer determination required to succeed. Tune in for an incredible story and an educational experience on what it takes to climb an 8000m peak without oxygen.
Write to us at coach@uphillathlete.com or visit us at uphillathlete.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Martin and His Manaslu Climb
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. My name is Alyssa Glark, and I will be your host today. I'm stoked to bring on a familiar voice. ah We have Martin Zor, one of the coaches at Uphill Athlete On, to talk about his most recent climb of Manaslu, which is an 8,000-meter peak It's an incredible accomplishment and we are just stoked to hear more about your experiences, the lead up and
Inspirations and Dreams of Climbing Big Peaks
00:00:45
Speaker
all of the good stuff. So thank you, Martin, for being on. Thanks for bringing me on and I'm glad to be here.
00:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, I know that we have talked about this. um Actually, we were together in Chamonix right before you left for this trip. But this has been something that um has been kind of a long term project for you is is climbing an 8,000 meter peak. So how long have you been kind of pursuing this a dream?
00:01:16
Speaker
So I guess that's coming back to my childhood where I started to dream about 8000 years reading books ah from Reinhold Messner and some old like generation of climbers older generation of climbers ah from back in the day when I was a kid that there it was in the 80s. So ah we had books also from some really strong Czechoslovak expeditions doing some really rad expeditions in the highest mountains in the world.
00:01:45
Speaker
So I guess it all started there, but then it took me a really kind of long path, long journey to get here until Manaslu where I was a couple of months ago.
00:01:56
Speaker
ah So, ah yeah, long journey, but also there was pretty much a very long time where I didn't even think about that it would be possible. It's it's really ah financial aid. It's really tough for most people, I think, to make that decision to go. and ah But otherwise, I think physically I was ready already before that the dream was there.
00:02:19
Speaker
But I guess it's also good to take some time, have the time to prepare, and really when you're ready, yeah you just go for it. So long journey.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think those are often the the best because ah there's it's really worth it and you know you're really ready.
From Runner to Mountain Athlete
00:02:37
Speaker
um so what i i guess can you I think people know you as a coach, they know of your education background, but what is your journey as an athlete that led you to being ready to do to take on Manaslu?
00:02:53
Speaker
Well, I started as a runner. So when I was a kid or maybe 12 years old, I started to run some competitive competitions in middle distance, cross country. So quite a short distances, let's say, but it was still endurance. So I like, I always liked endurance challenges, ah exploring, I guess, exploring what I can do. ah Whenever there was a hail mountain, I sort of, I looked up, I was just kind of drive drove me to I really want to run up that hill, like the physical effort of going uphill is just something in me. I don't know what it is, but I really like it. And it's until now, very much. So I guess that's where I started. So maybe like mountain endurance athlete, I always been to some extent.
00:03:44
Speaker
But I started with the middle distance running, which I think gave me a really good base. ah So ah afterwards I kind of quit the competitions and then I moved towards climbing, more alpinism, moved to Chamonix eventually, so started to spend more time at high altitude. um Then with my work when I go to the Middle East, which I already talked about before, it was really important for me, I think.
Acclimatization and Training for High Altitude
00:04:10
Speaker
ah One, it was a job, but also the experience, watching the other people, how they deal or not deal well with altitude.
00:04:18
Speaker
um And then also just having that long-term acclimatization, which I think it's kind of, I'm kind of a hybrid between people who go to altitude sometimes a couple of weeks per year, maybe. ah And then of course the share bus or the populations that live at high altitude for generations. So they are, they have the genetic adaptations. So I'm somewhere and maybe in the middle where I really spend there somewhere around 10 years. I slept on, slept up on that left ah maybe I think I was counting at maybe somewhere like 250 days, 250 nights actually. So I think it ah it really made a difference. And I quit that job two years ago. ah So for me, the last couple of years were interesting. I was really curious how much my body will keep some of those adaptations, because that's kind of tricky then when you go to the physiology. And it's like, what is actually that? Like what do you keep and what do you not keep? and
00:05:13
Speaker
um So yeah, I went to some mountains since then. I was on Amadablom a couple of times in Nepal last year. I went to Pakistan. We can talk about that more. um But yeah, now it was Manaslu, so almost two years afterwards. For me, it was really interesting to test myself. But actually, back to your question, I guess, the I would consider myself mountain athlete and I keep racing, so I do the vertical kilometers or double vertical kilometers just straight really like running up the hill as fast as you can. um And for me, well, it's fun, it's brutal, but it's fun and it's a great way for me to stay sharp in in that fitness.
00:05:56
Speaker
and basically covering all those factors that then I can transfer easy to the mountaineering or speed mountaineering in my case where I tried to climb those mountains in this style to start at the bottom and get to the top as fast as I can. No, I love that. and I know that you didn't start out just saying, hey, I'm going to go try to do a speed record on an 8,000 meter peak. What were some of the peaks that you have um used as kind of stepping stones and check marks along the way? Yeah, I guess it started some maybe it's been now eight years almost or where I
00:06:41
Speaker
yeah I had some injury before, so it was I was kind of stuck, but started to get out of there and really got hungry for some some big objectives. So first it was in the Alps, ah which is pretty competitive because many athletes, ah mountain athletes, they go test themselves on those mountains and set really amazing FKTs. So it's quite a difficult field.
00:07:06
Speaker
um But I think I got some really good times. For me, it was just a maybe ah eye-opening that I can be in maybe in that category as well. um And I think also to my advantage, I think the acclimatization was the defining ah factor because as a runner, you know I'm nowhere near ah the the elite field. I kind of sometimes get to the podiums of those vertical races, but it's totally okay for me. This is really just fun part for me.
00:07:35
Speaker
But anyway, so it started for me in the Alps. I did some linkups ah for me. The most ah defining project was the three summits. I called it three summits project. So I linked the Monteroza, Mont Blanc and Gran Paraiso in one push. So it took about 29 hours ah plus some driving between the departing departure points in the valley. But the whole but the whole project was about a hundred kilometers.
00:08:02
Speaker
So for me, it was really eye opening because it also took me about a year and a half of very specific preparation ah to to be ready for this one. And I still really keep it close to my heart. It's three it's really it's it's really important for me.
00:08:17
Speaker
Actually, from there, now it's going to be actually a five-year anniversary. I went to Aconcagua, so the highest mountain in America, and close to 7,000 meters, so completely different category. Well, not completely, but much higher than anything I've had before. It's high. Yeah. It's high. I truly, yeah, forget or didn't comprehend until I was in Cotopaxi, like, wow, Aconcagua is really high.
00:08:46
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it is. so it's ah it's a It's a solid mountain. and Luckily, it's not technically so difficult. I mean, there are more routes, of course, on the mountain, but the the classic, the normal route is um is not ah technically difficult. So you really can go for it. You really can challenge yourself and try
Record-setting on Aconcagua
00:09:05
Speaker
the speed, right? So that's that's why I went there in December 2019.
00:09:11
Speaker
And I managed to and get the record back then. So the one from Plazadei Moulas base camp to the top. So I believe it was around 2,600 meters elevation. And again, and then about 10 kilometers distance. So yeah, just kind of really good for me. Eye opening again, I climbed the mountain, well, three times actually to the third attempt was actually then the record.
00:09:38
Speaker
That was actually not the plan, but then I was still going for a test and was planning to do another day, but it actually happened. So yeah, that was there was a really important because while I do the best time sort of in the world, it was its doesn't happen every day.
00:09:55
Speaker
So it was very, very cool experience. And since then, I went to different mountains. I went to Big Lanyan and Kyrgyzstan, ah ah some others. But then mainly, I think the big one was last year when I went to Broad Peak in Pakistan, which is 8,000 meters.
00:10:16
Speaker
8,050 meter high. So that was my first encounter with 8,000 meters, but I never got there because last year, at least the beginning of the season in Pakistan, wasn't easy. The snow conditions. So we just didn't get the window. With a wetter window, I mean. So physically, I think I was ready. I was i was sharp, but it felt really good.
00:10:41
Speaker
but sometimes while on these mountains you have to accept that also there there are factors that you have no control over and that's also okay.
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would say that that is, I mean, that's such a difference in the trail running world and ah so many other spaces is that truly so much of a factor in being able to do this is the weather windows and the conditions, et cetera. I mean, it's just such a ah limiting factor that I think so many other sports don't have to consider at all.
Challenges and Strategies for Climbing Manaslu
00:11:21
Speaker
It is, and it is. Well, it turned out that the Manaslu also wasn't easy, but I guess we will get there. So it's really, a yeah, important to realize. And then of course that is this like risk management, right? So you were investing a lot and I think, I didn't realize until I got back from Manaslu now in basically in October, last month where I was like, wow.
00:11:46
Speaker
ah this was ah This was a lot. And when you go back, when you go through the experience, you just don't realize, you just do every day what you can do. You sort of used to go out and anyway for a training. So you just train it on an 8,000 meter peak all of a sudden. But, you know, you you just try to stay in your kind of comfort zone within the discomfort and ah tried to try to do your best. But when I got back home, I was like, wow, like I actually, it took a lot out of me. it ah And the effort, the
00:12:17
Speaker
of course the the whole kind of physical experience but then of course the finances so i took a month out of my life basically and a lot of risks and stuff so yeah it's a it's a big deal i think and And then you go there and ah you know you can just get shut down by the weather and there is nothing you can do. And that's what happened in but my previous expeditions. And so, for example, two years ago in summer, I was on Piklanin, which is a 7,000-meter peak. So sort of a step up for me from after I came to Kagawa, maybe 200 meters higher. but
00:12:55
Speaker
ah definitely glaciated mountain, like a different kind of terrain. ah But the yeah conditions were not easy but mainly because it was just so hot. So the conditions on the glacier were just really strange and not very safe for being a solo climbing. and But also I got sick just at the beginning. So the whole yeah the whole plan just went out of the window and you know I just had to stay in the base camp for a week or almost 15 days.
00:13:24
Speaker
and basically had like three days before going home so I just went for it and I went to the base camp, the actual advanced base camp there and I tried so I went to straight up to as high as I could to acclimatize, came back rested one day and then just went for for ah for a push and I had to turn around 200 meters away from the summit. Just a quick decision but very clear that I just had to go home, like I had a headache, I had ran out of water because it was so hot and I just also had to go all the way down to ah the base camp on that glacier which was really crevassed and it was really warm so I was really worried about that. but I also just then felt that it was not the day to go and so basically I went to home after it was really ran out of motivation.
00:14:17
Speaker
um So anyway, different experiences. And so, um you know, that's also happens. and And sometimes it happens more often than the successful ones where you actually reach to summit. But actually, that's also a point where, you know, I still learned something, I still got something out of the experience. And of course, the success is is definitely tied to something.
00:14:39
Speaker
But for me, I'm trying to kind of approach it, say, OK, like, ah let's take the whole experience in and ah learn a thing as an athlete, as a coach, as someone who is really interested in altitude physiology. So, you know, there's so much to learn. But anyway, we as athletes, we definitely want to to make it out there. So um but again, no we don't control everything out there.
00:15:06
Speaker
We definitely don't. I do want to make a point as well of what style you are doing these climbs in, because I think that might not be obvious to everyone, is that you are doing this solo, unguided, and without oxygen. yeah So Martin is taking on a much different approach than most people when they are going on some type of an expedition.
00:15:33
Speaker
ah they're Yeah, I guess ah if you want to speak to that. Yes, with pleasure, I think ah we can sort of put it into categories of the mountains. the When it gets above 7,000 meters, it gets particularly hard. the It's really the effect of that altitude on the body is ah is ah really kind of strong and the impact of it. it just gets difficult. And especially when it comes to 8,000-meter peaks, so people usually use the supplemental oxygen.
00:16:07
Speaker
ah to be able to get to the top safely and not get sick, altitude sick. right So there's sort of this this style. And then um I choose to do style without the supplemental oxygen. So I choose to kind of go on my own. Also, of course, that affects the choice of the routes that I can do solo because ah you know I have my limits, of course, as a climber and also the way I want to take risks. And also I really am kind of a mountain runner slash
00:16:41
Speaker
climbers So I want to just really i test myself and the speeds to get up that that mountain. So ah you know the usually the choice is pretty clear. It's on the normal route, but it can it it depends. Maybe in the future I find something which which which is interesting. It doesn't need to be necessarily on the established route ah with with fixed lines often, because nowadays pretty much every 8,000 meter peak has fixed lines, at least on the normal route. So all the way. so You know, that's how it is these days. But yeah, so this this is the style I choose. And um not that I'm against climbing with my friends or partners, but specifically for this, I think what makes the most sense is to go on my own, to go solo, ah because, well, I need to set my own pace. And there are so much going on up there that, you know, you cannot plan it. Like you really have to wait, like how much, how my body will react to different levels. And yeah usually there is this threshold that I hit
00:17:39
Speaker
with ah also my acclimatization rotations where I just hit that, ah and maybe it's the the threshold is a kind of wrong word, but a certain level where you just really start to feel it. And so then I go through it and I choose how for how long to acclimatize, right? And then I come back down to recover and then I go again and I go higher and this level will be higher this time. And so as' that's my approach also to acclimatization.
Preparation Challenges Before Manaslu
00:18:06
Speaker
So also the next the next kind of I'm going to show a strategy. I use this strategy to stay in the base camp, always. Pretty much always. I don't use the high camps to acclimatize, as most clients do. Most climbers do. Because, well, why do they use the camps? Because, well, it takes a while to get up there. It takes a while to get up there.
00:18:34
Speaker
ah you need to bring your gear higher so you can then go another stage on the mountain. right So but to to go back down to base camp is almost unthinkable for most people because you just spend too much energy. It's just too taxing. So I prefer to stay very light. So then then it comes also to ah my gear. ah gear I choose choose the gear that is very light, that allows me also to go as fast as I can. I study still stay relatively safe.
00:19:02
Speaker
ah And so basically approach the mountain in this style. And so, of course, there might be limits on big mountains, of course, then it gets colder and colder on the high mountains, especially 8000ers.
00:19:15
Speaker
So that there's a lot behind it. There was also, what time do do I go? Because during the night it's of course colder, but it that might be safer. There will be less people, especially on those kind of bottlenecks on the mountain. So of course I want to avoid those. So everything comes at at a price. we yeah Anyway, the that's a huge topic, like choice of gear and and stuff. But anyway, like from the basics, also, I think that some people were really sort of raising eyebrows when they saw me in the base camp of Manaslu now. And I was saying, well, i'm not I didn't even bring my tent because, well, I can always use some tents up there in the bay in the in the high camps. But basically saying, I'm not going to sleep up there. I will always start from the bottom and I will come back to the base camp. So they were really worried about me. I was like, is this guy kind of crazy or is this possible?
00:20:09
Speaker
And I was sort of like, maybe, maybe they are right. But I mean, I've tried this before on the lower mountains so so far. So far, it worked. And so but I was pretty confident, you know, and but yeah, of course, then you're really are going much higher. So the effect of that altitude, I never really tried before. Right. So um so to be clear, until Yeah, my highest point until this year was ah when I was on Broad Peak and I reached the Chem 3, which was last year at least 7100 meters. So that but that was my highest point so far. I didn't get any higher last year. So this is how, you know, with this knowledge, I went to Manaslo this September.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess kind of to jump right into it. ah And then I don't know, maybe we'll go back after that. But this is something that's really interesting. How do you manage your mind when you are getting that high because you are I mean, when you have a group of of people, you're going as a team, you have people who have varying levels of how they're doing, etc, feeling probably a guide to pay attention. But you are completely responsible for your own brain. How do you how do you manage it? What are you thinking? How are you feeling? So this is interesting, because I think what I'm what I learned on Manas, Lou, was that the mental aspect is very important. It's really
00:21:38
Speaker
the the preparation can really help on different levels, so I can this i can tell more. But I guess ah all the training that I've done in my life kind of led me to to go to Manaslu being prepared, I would say, to most scenarios, and then sort of prepare, be hopefully prepared also if something goes wrong, and something usually does, but it doesn't necessarily need to. I think that's what I noticed, actually, or I really had a ah hit like a bat bad moment after something actually I started to go down and I thought okay well it's just decent not that I was kind of underestimating it but but my body maybe just ah I was really reflecting on this like what actually happened anyway I was really tired and I was like well like I'm kind of losing it here so I was like basically telling myself hey like you have to be focused now you're not down yet you have to keep going
00:22:32
Speaker
Focus focus what's going on as there anything I can do and there was pretty much nobody on the mountain there were like two people I think still climbing but they were pretty far away and I at this point I didn't see them so I was pretty much on my own it was still 8100 meters I was really like 50 meters below the summit and so I think what happened was that does this decompression effect.
00:22:53
Speaker
where your body is like, okay, well, now we've done the work. So the downhill should be relatively easy or at least much easier than the uphill. Well, guess what? I mean, I was going down at 8,000 meters, 100 specifically, right there. Wow, it wasn't easy at all. I was still getting out of breath, at least for a couple of hundred meters, but also because, well, I was pushing for almost 13 hours, so that's the time it took me.
00:23:22
Speaker
And I stayed on the summit for like 20 minutes, maybe. I don't know exactly, but you know I stayed there. I just enjoy it. But I guess, did the kind of like the I don't know if it's the mental or the physical, but something really let go. So I really had to stay focused and say, OK, I need to keep going. There was a point, and I honestly don't remember if it was still going up or going down, where I sort of sat down and leaned like against my backpack,
Mental and Physical Challenges on Manaslu
00:23:50
Speaker
against the hill. And I think I just kind of fell asleep for five minutes, maybe. And I actually don't know if it was five minutes, but there I was like, woof okay, like maybe it's time to go. And so that happened too. and It was relatively warm on the sun. So, you know, just to give people a context. But anyway, yeah, it was a point when, so when I was thinking about it the later,
00:24:15
Speaker
I realized that most of the trainings that I do, whether it's during running, trail running, exploring, whatever sport I'm doing. So sometimes it's good to push like beyond this zone of comfort, right? So I'm able to go for several hours, usually every every day during the season, you know, that changes with my specific trainings, but I can do that. And I sometimes push a bit over that edge to kind of explore, okay, what happens if I really run out of water or run out of food, right? I think that training for adversity prepares you for those moments and but also most of the time like really 99% I think of the time I am in control I know what's going on in my body I need to eat a bit more maybe I come my legs are tired but I'm fine I mean i have hour one hour left so I'll be fine so and so I think
00:25:04
Speaker
That's when I realized that up there, what happened was like, okay, actually, I was getting out of control of my own body. And and so that was a bit scary, I guess. and But ah luckily, yeah, I kept going. I also just didn't have water. I ran out of.
00:25:21
Speaker
water because why it was such a long push. Anyway, we can talk about the specifics, but well, anyway, I had to just basically, I saw the Camp 4, which is the last camp on Manaslu. It's ah several hundred meters below, so I knew that I needed to just hold on for 45 minutes, stay safe. luck Luckily then, the terrain is quite okay. now It's a snow slope, but nothing super steep.
00:25:47
Speaker
So when I made it and I gave me water, so I sold it slowly but came back to life and ah and recovered. Because then I actually went but all the way back down, by the way, to to the base camp. Yeah, very long way down. yeah Yeah, I do want to get into the specifics of what you carried because I think that is very interesting. But before we get there, I do want to back up to your, I guess, um we'll start with why Manaslu, what drew you to that expedition in particular in Mountain? yeah
00:26:27
Speaker
Manaslu is considered one of the easier 8000ers, but I would like to maybe change that ah to because it might be really misleading ah yeah for many people. sure it is you know so I don't think on 8000ers there are no easy peaks, but there are definitely those that you choose to start your journey.
00:26:49
Speaker
to to that category of mountains. So probably it comes to the choice of, um also there's a really good logistics, right? So it's it's really easy to get there. ah We chose to just get into the base camp straight away but with the helicopter. So it's an hour flight from Kathmandu and really skipped the acclimatization part, basically tracking the Manastal circuit, which what which people usually do to acclimatize, which I totally agree with. I think it's a good strategy. strategy and And so we skipped that because I just didn't really have have the time ah or didn't want to. And also, I joined a group of Czech climbers. So it's my home country where I come from. So ah through a sort of series of circumstances, ah I yeah i enjoyed joined them.
00:27:44
Speaker
And so it was schooling a cool opportunity. And Manaslu has been sort of in my scope for a while. ah But yeah, I wasn't really sure, to be honest. I also made that decision basically two months ah before before the and before the trip. So relatively late, right? You definitely usually have some clarity about like your objectives, mountain objectives, and also the preparation. But ah in that sense, I was relatively confident.
00:28:09
Speaker
um confident about my preparation because that was my racing season ah so yeah I felt that it was okay ah maybe then the next category or the the question was the accommodation but that's that's ah that's maybe I can discuss more but back to why Manaslu I think it's still was It's supposed to be one of the easier ones technically. um And it wasn't difficult so much, but actually this year was a big surprise for most people who know the mountain or even the expedition leaders, organizers. ah They never saw the mountain being so technical, especially between Camp 1 and Camp 2. You are crossing this glacier and so like Serac Field.
00:28:58
Speaker
um So what happened was that usually there is this ice one ice wall that you have to climb, but the the rest is relatively okay easy ah inclined snow wall.
00:29:09
Speaker
but this time it was basically four or five walls you had to climb and so of course there there was a fixed line but still it made it quite a funny. i was using I was using the fixed lines by the way even like with the speed climbing I think it's a kind of established that you know you're climbing on the normal route and i was as I was saying the the All the normal routes now, they have the fixed line because there are so many people and some of them, they really require the use of the fixed line. So it's just more simple to just fix it the whole way. But I wasn't necessarily using it the whole way, ah really kind of seeing the mountain as I was soloing. So I just clipped ah to the fixed line when there were crevasses.
00:29:51
Speaker
or just kind of scary parts and you were definitely also you didn't see all the crevasses those that that you see you can avoid them or be really careful but there were points where you kind of sank through right so yeah there were definitely some sketchy points and then the specifically that one that wall between camp one camp two well not the wall there were actually five walls but maybe 20 meter climbs so yeah it was pretty much one way to go to ah to use the fixed line or I would really have to climb technically ice with two technical ice axes so complete the different keyer choice um so it didn't really make sense so I was using the Jamar um and so
00:30:33
Speaker
There was a couple more ah points somewhere like on the head wall above the Chem 3, so somewhere around 7,200 meters. There were, I think, two ice walls, but really short ones. yeah But still, like you know it was ah it was a bit ah but technical on places. So definitely not like a beginner, break beginner mountain, but I still think that if people are ready, ah it can be it can be done. But I also think that when you prepare,
00:31:00
Speaker
ah When you prepare, it's it's good to be aware of this. If you're not ready, if you don't train upper body, for example, you're just preparing for a long snow walk, you might be really surprised. So um that's why I mentioned it. Yeah, I do think that's such a valid point across the board with how Our climate is changing um with with climate change that mountains that quote unquote are werere or were easy are not easy anymore. They're, I think, providing a lot more challenge than
00:31:39
Speaker
what may be classically thought of. I mean, I can just say from a very, very different perspective, but Codapaxi, everyone thinks of it as kind of like just a hike up mountain. And the guides and also people had climbed it five or six times. We're all saying it's getting more and more technical.
00:31:56
Speaker
It was the hardest route they'd had it. um So things are really changing with conditions. And so definitely take some time to talk to guides, research, et cetera, because what might have been just easy, I'm saying this, you all can't see the quotation marks, easy mountain, the routes are changing.
Impact of Climate Change on Climbing
00:32:19
Speaker
So just be very aware of that. So I think that's a great point.
00:32:22
Speaker
It's true. Basically, just to say that the same thing happened on a big line. There is this ah point where there is a fixed line and and you have to climb this steep ice wall at the beginning of the ah where the mountain really gets deeper. And that you that was not the case a couple of years ago. There used to be the sky race, like the highest race in the world, which really was something I was interested in doing, but that they don't organize it anymore big for this reason. It used to be basically a snowwa a snow hike, let's say, and it's not anymore, so have things are definitely changing. and
00:33:05
Speaker
ah But and anyway, I mean, it it might be also to of the fact that, yeah, just ah randomly, the client glacier just moved. It was a bit of sketchy place there as well to kind of one camp tube. There was a slide of the Sarac or Sarac fall that was like 50 meter wide. And i I actually kind of hiked up, hiked down through it 45 minutes maybe before that. And I had then heard the noise.
00:33:31
Speaker
came back up another day and I saw the huge debris and the the of the oil launch. So it was definitely a spot where I was really focused just to keep going, going, going, don't stop, don't stop. ah Yeah, that I think that was the more scary part of the whole mountain.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, ah that's wild. um I do want to touch on one last point of your lead up to Manaslu because we were together and I remember that there were quite a few obstacles that came up in uncertainties. So do you mind sharing a little bit about how what how kind of things were before you decided to go to Manaslu?
00:34:17
Speaker
Sure, I can. So um I guess I made the decision somewhere early July, I think. So two months to go. So ah deciding, i felt I felt good with the races. But then there was a point somewhere maybe late July, I went for this ah vertical kilometer race. And ah I think right afterwards I got a bit sick, some virus infection, respiratory infection.
00:34:43
Speaker
after two days I felt fine so went back to training but I just kind of felt discomfort since then ah around my chest so it just really couldn't figure it out I took a rest or a rest day or two but then i eventually went to see a doctor and I was really suspicious that I had some kind of meocarditis this this infection of the heart muscle or the tissues around your cardiac muscle So um it was really scary because that kind of ill infection is is really serious for for anybody. So yeah, it's kind of a nightmare. But yeah, I was just uncertain. ah The first test didn't really reveal anything and basically recommendations were just take a week off.
00:35:27
Speaker
which was of course very but very difficult to do because i otherwise I felt fine, I didn't have fever, I didn't have any problems but ah yeah it's just this weird uncomfortable feeling and I also taking one week off when you really are want to really do the big training before the mountain, ah yeah it was very frustrating um but eventually I actually went to do like a big check with a cardiologist ah in my country, in Czech Republic, and they confirmed that everything was fine. So I kind of got that out of the of the table and I really fell felt fine afterwards, even though there was a bit of like a mentaltor mental block there. So this is then in August, so maybe three, four weeks to go.
00:36:15
Speaker
And I went for this run with my wife and I was running uphill, funny, and just ah just stumbled and hit ah hit the rock with my head and broke my finger.
00:36:27
Speaker
So completely random. i I think I never broken a finger in my life before or not really any fractures in my life, ah honestly. So yeah, it was it was kind of a disaster. So I was running back down. I was definitely to felt the pain as I had. This is not good. And so in my head, of course, accepting that I'm not going to Manaslu. And well, I get my money back and all these questions.
00:36:54
Speaker
But I got myself to the emergency and the doctor was like, well, yeah, there's a bit of fracture, but it's not correct like it's cracked. You know what I mean? It's not this kind of fracture. It was just this bit that was ah yeah it was like tiny fissure in the bone.
00:37:10
Speaker
And he basically taped two two fingers together, this broken one and the one next to it, to fix it. There was no cast necessary. And he said, well, you know, if you don't need to climb with your fingers, like grip strength, if you're not climbing with your ice axes,
00:37:26
Speaker
you should be okay so i would i would say that you're fine and actually whatever what was going on maybe mentally coming back to your or previous question ah about the mental side i think that was also an interesting point where i was sort of thinking is this like a universe telling me that i shouldn't go like.
00:37:47
Speaker
but That definitely can happen. right you you I definitely am someone who tries to listen listen to intuition you know and specifically in the mountains. i get It really can can save you in cases, so in situations. so I was really asking myself that too, but also asking my wife and asking ah my my family or close friends. But I also understood that this is something I need to answer for myself. ah Nobody can answer this for me.
00:38:17
Speaker
I know myself, I know what I'm going for. and It was a big objective, and I really felt like I i wanted to go. I felt healthy, ah well, at this stage at least, except for the broken finger, but I felt kind of strong, healthy for for that challenge. Well, so I just decided, okay, like um I keep going. ah The finger actually, well, I still feel it now, actually three months later, but the it's it's pretty much healed. There was a point where A couple of weeks later, I went to Mont Blanc for some altitude training ah just before leaving for Nepal. And I had to use two ice axes while coming to to climate change, the conditions in the Alps where you know in the end of August can be really difficult because so the snow is melted, so the glaciers are really dry and everything is icy. ah So, yeah, the normal route, which is normally like a snow hike or a very steep snow hike,
00:39:15
Speaker
It was definitely a climb, so I had two axes and it was difficult. I couldn't really fit the two to eight tapped fingers into my glove, so it was a bit funky. But still a nice challenge, but eventually didn't really feel any limiters when I was on the mountain. Luckily, because really there, you want to be in your top condition. Yeah. Well, I think it was very interesting because I was around you and I was kind of like, Hey, Barton, I don't know. It seems like a lot of things are maybe not lining up quite the way. And you, I could tell you really wanted to go. Cause you were like, yes, I acknowledge that, but I still believe this is the right decision. So yeah, you knew it. Yeah, thanks. Um, I.
00:40:08
Speaker
don't Yeah, I don't remember what was going on all those days, but there were a lot of doubts. But also, I think coming back to you learned your lessons, like the whole your your all your career, you're making decisions. So I guess I guess that it was an interesting lesson for me to go through, right, going through the doubts and really saying, OK,
00:40:30
Speaker
giving yourself the clarity. Is this like, okay, this was just an accident and I can deal with this. Honestly, on the mountain, you'll be pushing so hard and maybe you'll break the finger up there. Can you deal with that? you know Can you still go with the broken finger? I mean, yeah, anything can happen anytime, but ah i'll be I'll be okay. I can do this. And so that was an interesting moment. yeah Yeah, and I also think it's a great ah lesson in that things can be
00:41:04
Speaker
less than ideal, there can be a lot of bumps and it can still go really well. like You do not have to have a perfect buildup. i often When I actually have a pretty perfect buildup to something, I go, oh no, what's going to happen? you know what so Because so often that's where maybe you hit something within the race, but when you have those ups and downs and you're able to deal with them and keep that that momentum and that resolution and learn as you said, like you could break your finger up on the mountain. I think that's actually when you're most prepared because you have dealt with those um those blips along the way. So yeah, I think
00:41:53
Speaker
I agree. I agree. I think it's the maybe like the acceptance where ah I can accept that, okay, as you say, the things are not ideal, but I can do this. This is this doesn doesn't need to be a delimiter.
00:42:10
Speaker
But also knowing, yeah there again, there's so much going on that already so much can to happen. You get to the mountain, you need to stay healthy, which actually turned out to be really challenging, by the way. ah right And so all the way to the summit, youre you really are trying to get all these obstacles. But it's also, I'm going there willingly to to get this challenge done.
00:42:32
Speaker
ah right and so and I guess that's what happened and I was also maybe helping with the acceptance where I was like not really tied to the outcome, meaning I really wanted to summit this time. I was like, okay, let's take it day by day and let's just go every day and just ah stay safe, be in flow, do what you can and you you can. you You know what to do. yeah Your body knows what to do.
00:42:56
Speaker
I'm talking kind of about, you know, what I know about myself at that altitude. So I think maybe that also gave me that confidence with my strategy for altitude. And yeah, I just kind of forgot about the finger of completely after a because yeah, you just stay in that zone and go face the challenge.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah.
Acclimatization Strategy for Manaslu
00:43:19
Speaker
So let's get into the specifics of the mountain. Can you give us a little bit of an overview on your acclimatization strategy when you got there? And I just want to caveat this by saying Martin is a very specific athlete. He had very specific goals. So please, you know,
00:43:42
Speaker
It's very interesting, but do not. Disclaimer of like, this is not necessarily the way that you should do it. Actually, you probably shouldn't do it this way. so Very true. ah Very true. So um where to start? um i was i my know I already mentioned at the beginning that ah ah this expedition was meant to be relatively quick, right? So you in your interest,
00:44:12
Speaker
it would be that you want to be pre-acclimateized. So we were flying there around the 5th, well actually 7th of September, knowing that on Manaszlo the season is in September and the summit days usually are around 25th of September. Usually it can be earlier than that, it can be later than that. Sometimes you can go until late, sorry, early October, but it really depends.
00:44:37
Speaker
September in Nepal is quite it can be quite rainy and snowy on the mountain because of the monsoon still kind of finishing and but also you just go for Manaslu because ah later on it's I think it's too windy it really is so geographically where the mountain is stands I believe between the you know the whole like ah Indian and Bengal Sea or whatever it's called, and then you know this massive humid so hot air gets to the mountains and get over to the then the north, I believe that's connected to this. ah So, yeah, um yeah you you could ask like, why didn didn't we go later? But actually, yeah, that's that's when you go. And actually, it turned out to be
00:45:19
Speaker
quite short this time, this time this year. I knew and I had this information about this mountain from the previous years, as two years ago was a nightmare. It was a lot of accidents, a lot of actually ah fatal accidents, ah too much snow, too much snowfall, avalanches all over the place. Last year was relatively okay. So I was like, okay, well, it's random, not nothing I can do about it. ah Anyway, so my team, ah or The guys I was with, so actually then we were all doing our thing. So by the way, because yeah, as I mentioned, we mentioned in the beginning, I was, uh, I was planning to climb solo most of the time or actually pretty much the whole time.
00:46:01
Speaker
And so um having going going there on the 7th, within 18 days, you want to climb 8,000 meter peak. So 18 days is relatively short. ah We can talk ah shortly or in know for a very long time about acclimatization strategies. ah But 18 days, yeah it definitely is not enough for most people to get up to the summit.
00:46:25
Speaker
You really want to to spend some time in altitude, real or simulated before. So what I was doing was actually I did almost nothing. it's Pretty much simply put, I went twice to Mont Blanc. That was my acclimatization. I'm not really sure why. i One of the reasons was that I didn't have a ski pass this season for Chamonix where I live.
00:46:51
Speaker
So that actually sort of gives you the easy access to ah to the life system at least the agreement where i used to work so you know it's really easy to get up and spend some time hours or just go for a run climb. But this time i didn't for different reasons ah but also i was like okay it's going to be an interesting challenge i was.
00:47:10
Speaker
I thought from previous experiences like last year on Broad Peak that i my body really reacted really fast and basically ah getting to the Broad Peak, the base camp, a very quick hike through the long valley of the Bal Toro. I think it took us three days.
00:47:29
Speaker
Got to the base camp, which was at 5,000 meters. I went a couple of times, I went up and I think third day three I was at 7,100 meters. That was my highest point and that was also the last day I was at that level because the remaining I think two weeks we were there, and the weather was bad. So I never got another opportunity.
00:47:49
Speaker
But that ah that sort of, I think that point gave me a good confidence. um So knowing now that if I spend some more time at altitude, um and then I think I would be able to go faster, I guess. But yeah, well, I don't play with ifs. It's just good lesson.
00:48:08
Speaker
ah So anyway, I don't definitely, as you mentioned 3D smartly, that don't recommend this strategy for anybody. You definitely want to acclimatize well, maybe leave or ah late August, specifically for Manasil, beginning of September and start using the tracking. I guess that's the best. ah You go from launch to launch and you ah do the Manasil circuit.
00:48:30
Speaker
which is a really nice trekking kind of option there anyway. ah Not even if you're climbing the mountain, you can definitely do just the circuit if people do that, and it's beautiful. And the highest point of that trek is the pass, which ah goes up to 50, 500, I think, ah not exactly, but something and or in that level. And then you're ready, you come down and you go to the base camp. So what instead of that, we flew to Samagon, which is the village, Bel Mazl.
00:49:00
Speaker
ah the altitude is 3500 meters. um ah We spent one night there and next day we were hiked up to the base camp so it takes to cost like two and a half, three hours I believe.
00:49:13
Speaker
which yeah the elevation gain is about 1500 meters. So actually, I thought that the base camp is at 4800 meters. But on Manaslu, actually, the base camp really goes along along this moraine that goes uphill, up the hill. And so I was like, where is our camp? My company was 14 Summits exp Expedition. Where is it? Yeah, you have to keep going. And so actually, it was one of the last camps and the the altitude was 5000 meters.
00:49:41
Speaker
So, you know, I was like, wow, this is going to be interesting. And I was feeling okay, but definitely felt like the pumping chest, the heart rate was was elevated and otherwise I felt fine. Physically I felt fine.
00:49:55
Speaker
but definitely was a bit worried about sleep because you know the sleep apnea can be very uncomfortable. ah i Just getting a headache or something, was I going too fast? but you know Why didn't I climb the dice? All those things, all those thoughts were going through my head, but through my mind, but eventually it was okay.
00:50:14
Speaker
But yeah, just a bit of surprise, to be honest. Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between 4,800 and 5,000 meters. it's It's a bit of a step up. So um I guess, yeah, that's that's where it ended up. And up and ah yeah, so then we got there on the 8th of September. And that there I was. I had ah two and a half, three weeks, maybe, to do something on the mountain. And so ah afterwards, I started to do my strategy, going up and down, um up and down, well,
00:50:45
Speaker
so a certain portion on the mountain and then coming back to recover in the base camp again. um Yeah, but yeah, this is this was what happened before, right? So I went to Mont Blanc just really for two days. I ah just got to the summit, ran down, so it took me like five, seven hours, something like that in that category, up and down the hill. ah Really good training for me. I was feeling okay, so it also gave me quite an interesting insight because yeah I haven't been to Mont Blanc for two or three years, I don't remember now. But yeah, it's been a while, so it was really cool to revisit because I used to train a lot up there. um But again, and like i was I was confident. I was confident that it would work.
00:51:27
Speaker
um the you know Most of the people there, they take different strategies. ah Yeah, some people had more problems. than others. Some people got sick, meaning not really necessarily the altitude sickness, but the respiratory virus infections or different virus. That's what happens usually. I think it's really that such a stress from that hypoxia that affects the immunity that really you you you don't resist and the dry air, and the whole the whole kind of stressful situation.
00:52:03
Speaker
ah Some of it ah really affects your body such extent that you just get six to the get sick and you you get infected with the first virus that you encounter and so that's what happened. Awesome, I mean that's it's super helpful and yeah, probably not recommended across the board.
Gear and Nutrition for the Summit Push
00:52:22
Speaker
so You're at base camp. You feel ready to go. What gear are you bringing on um your summit attempt?
00:52:33
Speaker
So I had a gear for to get it to the base camp and also being around base camp. So basically running shoes with the Gator. um I use Scarbus, so they have some specific ah models for that. And then, ah basically, like if I go to run on the ah mountain in the Alps, right? So some light soft shell, ah some light core attacks, and light jacket, down jacket, I mean, to protect myself ah when it gets colder.
00:53:03
Speaker
um and for the the world higher I went so of course I needed to adapt that ah that gear but I honestly was a bit um frustrated with my gear choice because I wish I had some lighter boots for at least the first part of the mountain because it was actually warmer than I thought it would be.
00:53:24
Speaker
ah even though so the i we needed about 300 meters elevation gain so maybe like 40 minutes and we go to the glacier point so that's where ah you put the crampons on.
00:53:36
Speaker
Or you didn't, it was sort of like a hike through the crevasses, so some people actually didn't. But yeah, that's where the snow and ice started. And it pretty much ah you pretty much stayed on Glacier the whole way. ah Until then, it was a rocky moraine. So for that part of the mountain, I had Scarpa Fontumtec. It's a model for mountaineering in the Alps. So l with there is the heat insulation, but just relate to minus 10, minus 15 maybe.
00:54:05
Speaker
ah but the that was fine for me until the Camp 3. I was kind of asking myself later on if I should use this model all the way to the summit, but well there was a lot about it. This first leg, I was using that and basically just going light, as light as I could, and during the day it was actually fine, and it was getting really warm on the sun. ah That side of the mountain is, I think it's a south or south,
00:54:32
Speaker
east maybe so relatively warm on the on the sun actually roasting almost in the mid morning and midday my afternoon this could be really warm so it's a point where people sometimes ah underestimate and they you're just too you know you just have too many layers on and you're dehydrated and getting exhausted in the sun because also the the heat is so so reflecting from from the snow back to your face so it's it's it can be really hard um But yeah anyway, it's it's pretty much comparable to mountaineering in the Alps, or speed mountaineering at least, the speed climbs. But then, of course, at some level, maybe 6,000 meters and 6,500 meters and higher, I was using like bigger boots. But really, for the summit, and I did the rotation, ah one last rotation before my summit, and that was until 7,500 meters and I kept my
00:55:30
Speaker
phantom tas So basically the model used for the Alps, by the way, it's not like a heavy big boot. one but ah One choice of gear was the heated socks. I think people are familiar with this and it's really helpful. It's kind of a backup and so first time actually I used it.
00:55:47
Speaker
ah one there There are a couple of reasons maybe. It might be interesting for the listeners. So ah two reasons. Well, basically, stay warm if your shoes somehow fail you. But for me too, also, I think there is something about hypoxia and especially pushing yourself very hard. So that's sort of this category of speed climbing. I believe that it's connected to it. There is this interesting a series of processes that happen in the severe hypoxia.
00:56:17
Speaker
that your body sort of limits the blood flow to the extremities. And why I noticed this last year in Pakistan, so whenever I stopped after pushing for a couple of hours up the hill, I got hypothermics straight away, whether the one minute I was shaking. And that was weird because usually you're actually warm.
00:56:39
Speaker
And so right from the from the activity, but actually it was the opposite. And so I noticed that and sort of gave me, make me think made me think and ah so really wanted to be ready for this. um And especially if ah with the feet, because they were sort of my Achilles point, meaning the vulnerable point last year on Broadbeak, I froze my feet and at one point. So I definitely wanted to avoid that.
00:57:06
Speaker
um So I guess, yeah, that's it. That's it for the gear choice. I mean, of course, then there was different strategy for the summit, but maybe we can talk about it in specifics later. Yeah. What about um food and water for that 13 hour push? What were you bringing? So I brought Martin Gels for at least the big pushes. I couldn't really bring so many that I would be able to, you know, I don't know how many trips up the mountain I made.
00:57:37
Speaker
But I was sort of eating the bars and some some gels ah during my trips up there. I have considered it basically being as a training that I do every day. ah So um that was my plan. Then I had gummy bears, i got two or three packs. I thought like it was kind of a good option for me to have.
00:57:59
Speaker
and what else did I was sometime late took like a snack from the kitchen so the guys prepared some eggs for me so I actually had some solid food so duug the Tibetan bread with with eggs but that I actually ate after my push uphill before going back down for example but actually for the summit day so I definitely planted in more detail because it was supposed to be very long I decided to take two and a half liters of water So basically a liter and a half of water and one liter of coke. So I had a Coca-Cola, so like a cardboard drink because it works. Even though you're super tired, fatigued, flavor, lots of appetite, flavor, fatigue, all those things definitely you encounter up there.
00:58:51
Speaker
ah So it still works and you need that. You need to be to stay sharp, at least a bit. And so I also didn't want to carry less because I thought it would be a long push. And also I didn't carry want to carry more because then it just gets heavy. I am i got a bit of water in camp two on my way on the summit day ah from my team. So basically like two cups of tea extra. Otherwise I was carrying everything on my own. I didn't have any more support out there.
00:59:21
Speaker
at least not plant one. I got the water then from from the guys ah income for because that was necessary. to us ah Yeah, for the downhill, I was like, not that I wasn't counting on the downhill, but I was thinking I'm just going to somehow make it or ask someone for more water because there was no way I could carry enough or prepare or, you know, also What I did in those days until the summit. I also carried ah my boots and my some clothes that I put plants to carry on my summer day in the above at least that maybe 7500 meters or
00:59:58
Speaker
where I got cold, would get cold. So I left that in the Chem 3. So then when I got to Chem 3, I changed ah my boots. And I i put a big jacket, big down jacket to my backpack. And well, that was it. I didn't have any water, because any water that you would leave there for more than one hour, two hours, it would just freeze. It's cold. Yeah. Yeah, even even in the thermos. So ah yeah. Yeah. So that was the that was the plan.
01:00:26
Speaker
um So we had the gels and and then gels, some bars, but I mostly was using the gels. Yeah. i oh I mean, I just think that's really good for everyone to hear because a coke is amazing. I mean, I've run so many miles off of just that. It really is this magical thing. um But I do think it's good for people to hear like, yeah, gummy bears, like sugar, that's what you need. But also,
01:00:54
Speaker
there is a level of uncomfortableness that you accepted by trying, when you were trying to go fast, you have to make sacrifices. And so you realize like, hey, there's a strong chance I'm gonna be really thirsty on the way down and I'm just gonna have to accept that. ah true And so that's always kind of the, yeah, there are always things that you're trying to balance within um managing those pieces.
01:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, true. I mean, you can, there are definitely, like, FKTs or just assents. We don't need to necessarily talk about records, but you can be supported, right? So you can have support up there. ah So people actually give you more order in the last camp, you know? So I wasn't really planning on that, except that camp too, but but it took me it took me three hours to get up there, maybe something like that. yeah three hours, so I actually didn't really use so much water. So I didn't need to... I think maybe I refilled part of my flask, which I had on you know on my phone the front, to just drink directly. And the rest was fine still. I didn't use any of it. And I just took the like two cups of tea tried to to drink a bit more, and then I just went on my way. And I, of course, could could have carried my stove and gas.
01:02:12
Speaker
ah But I never used those actually by the way, during the expedition. so you know But I could definitely melt some snow on the way if I ran out of water. But that would mean extra weight. So basically also I think what's important to mention then yeah about the summit day. So we were there acclimatizing. I was doing well. I i was staying healthy, which was not ah it's pretty challenging because there a lot of people around were getting sick.
01:02:37
Speaker
And so you know that could just be a game over. But anyway. ah It was coming to like 2020 of September, and so we were definitely looking at the for weather weather forecast, also the on the mountain, what was going on, the Sherpa team that was fixing ah the the route. So putting the fixed lines there, they got light, so it the conditions and the weather, and also the really technical C1, C2 part of the route. So ah yeah, it was sort of, I think it was around 19th, 1819, when they actually finished the whole route all the way to the summit. So first people summit it.
01:03:13
Speaker
And I made my rotation to 7,500. So I really pushed hard that day. I really pushed ah beyond anything I have ever known before, at least with altitude. It was hard,
Summit Strategy and Emotional Reflections
01:03:25
Speaker
of course. i It took me quite a long time. But then i it gave me confidence that next time I go, I should be able to get to the summit. Then I went down and we were just really checking the weather. And it was pretty clear that in four days it would be good. Until then, like two days of sort of snowy conditions.
01:03:43
Speaker
And then this would be then Monday 23rd, we try for the summit 24 relatively okay weather and 24 evening would be snowing for three days heavy snow. So pretty much game over for very likely to be just a game over. So ah this this was our thinking as well, right? By the way, there I thought, okay, 23rd summit day, what do I do? How do I do it? When do I start? What do I take? ah Do I go aggressively or conservatively?
01:04:12
Speaker
Do I try to go with those boots, the lighter but boots, all the way to go light and to be faster? Or I just take the big boots, the bigger ones than the 6000 meter model, which are a bit heavier, but it will most likely keep me safe. i So I chose to go conservatively and to really maximize my chances to summit and I'm glad that I made the decision.
01:04:36
Speaker
And actually then yeah eventually eventually, I'm sorry, eventually ah it was it happened this way. We summited, two of us summited for money my team. ah We went down 24th because also there was a big battle for the heli. By the way, many people wanted to leave. And it started to snow, and it was snowing heavily. It rained rained over the Nepal. There was a big flood in Kathmandu, by the way. People died, and the mountain just got completely covered by snow, meters of snow, and nobody climbed anymore. ah So actually, for the Manaslu, that was the end. So you know its that was also, you realize, wow, like it you need to be ready. And you're not 100% acclimatized yet. I wasn't. um but That was the day 15.
01:05:22
Speaker
of me being at altitude. so yeah I think my body was still acclimatizing, but I managed still, and I'm pretty happy with that, to ah to climb to to the summit. I had this stick list saying, ah basically, I want to get to 8,000 meters. I want to start from the base camp without oxygen. 8,000 meters is my dream altitude. so When that popped up on my watch, right I had that ah the altitude there, so no I took a photo of it. It was a pretty emotional moment.
01:05:52
Speaker
And end then the last 160 meters still took me ages to get there. It was so crazy hard. But then basically, OK, I want to make it to the summit at a some given time. you know And then at some point there was ah maybe a record, but that never happened. And I'm OK with that. It's ah you know it's it's also just ah what you learn. And and so i'm I'm really happy for with the the whole experience.
01:06:21
Speaker
Yeah, I was trying to find the, gosh, what you posted something and it really stood out to me where you said something along the lines. I thought of, um, this is exactly how I always hoped or imagined it would be. Yeah.
01:06:46
Speaker
i believe this yeah yeah i I'm pretty sure um that was something that I saw and I'm curious if you can, like what how was that in the summit day if if um you kind of want to summarize that?
01:07:03
Speaker
Sure. Well, it's interesting you know how that experience after two months feels. ah It's not yet two months, but it will be soon. It feels like it's a long time ago. And ah yeah, i'm definitely the the fresh experiences were, well, ah quite raw. And now you know yeah you have some time to process it. But anyway, at the summit day. So as I mentioned,
01:07:29
Speaker
Definitely a lot of strategizing, making decisions, so you all i talking, OK, who's going to do ah who's going going to do what ah out of my team, at least. right So ah we saw that most of the guys, they ran out of time. they they were They were ready, maybe acclimatized, but they still needed more days. They still needed one more rotation. and But they still went and gave it gave it a try.
01:07:52
Speaker
um So, but anyway, about me, I was like, when should I start? So i was I was thinking, I was counting, I had the splits, like what time it will take to me on each part of the mountain and what time I should probably take on the upper part of the mountain. So it's reasonable. like If I make it to the summit, so it's still within the reasonable time during of the day and I have enough time, well, to go all the way down. So I decided to leave at 1am.
01:08:21
Speaker
Uh, what was happening? So this was, this would be Monday, very early in morning. Uh, Sunday, it was raining all day. So I was like, what's going on? It, uh, it wasn't not meant to be, uh, according to the forecast. So that was a first doubt.
01:08:38
Speaker
ah Will it be is it only snow ah raining down because then snow actually snow rain line was usually a couple of hundred meters above us or sometimes it snowed a bit also in the base camp at 5 000 meters but they make my big worry was if it's snowing too much up high on the mountain it might just be too too sketchy to too too too dangerous or there will be too much snow for me to um to kind of you know go through breakthrough. so to So it would take me too much energy. alright like I was looking at a really, really big day. So there was a lot of details that kind of need to go right for me to succeed and stay safe. and So that was the first doubt. um Then in the evening, so I was just chilling, and you know just resting, preparing ah the gels, recounting everything and just took relaxing.
01:09:30
Speaker
ah not overthinking it. um i know I was very excited, I was excited. Then in the evening, so I went to I went to bed at eight. So just to have a couple of hours of sleep and wake up at midnight, i have a well breakfast at midnight, and then started one. ah That was the plan. So I woke up, ah just now for go for a toilet ah ten at 10pm. And it was clear. I was like, yes, that's good. how' good but bru Beautiful.
01:10:00
Speaker
ah beautiful sky actually then I woke up and again and there was it was kind of misty and almost training again so I was like okay this is not happening what's going on what's with going on this weather But say, OK, let's just keep going. Let's just go. I had a quick great breakfast, packed up, ah and ah went up actually a bit lower down in the base camp to start from this big stupa that sort of signifies that this is the center of the base camp. And and ah yeah kind of my my guys from my from my team, they actually woke up and joined me. So that was really cool.
01:10:36
Speaker
ah kicked me off to the night, and then I went off. ah So I started to walk, it was a bit misty, then started to snow, a bit higher up. So, you know, again, like doubts, is this going to be okay? Where, what is this weather? There was a chance that the cloud actually was only the lower cloud, right? So somewhere around 6500 meters, maybe ah above it, it would be actually clear. But I didn't know that I didn't have the information. So I walked through the night, there was nobody, I passed first camp, everybody was asleep, just dark.
01:11:06
Speaker
ah climbed through the technical sections, just being on my own. It was quite cool. it'ss That's also what I seek, by the way, the experience of being on my own in the mountain and in this experience, like where am I going? And really are like you feeling that you feeling every change direction of the way and everything you because it's you rely on that you rely on those yeah sensations because it can tell you something about the mountain and what is going on. Right. So for me, it's really powerful.
01:11:35
Speaker
And, uh, but it's also many hours just keep going. So yeah, anyway, uh, those are, I guess the experiences. That's really hard to do explain. Uh, I might see to come to a good time as actually faster than my previous rotation. So I was, I felt like I was getting faster. Actually one important point. So sell below camp one. So maybe one hour in, I realized that I have this H in my, uh, my right side of my.
01:12:06
Speaker
my torax which is ah ah like a chest so basically like a cramp in the diaphragma you sometimes feel but it was this odd feeling where i was like okay well what is this and i realized that it's the breathing muscles ah one of them diaphragma of course the maybe the more more powerful one that was actually tired from that rotation that i did to 7500 meters ah so several days ago which four days actually to be precise And I was already thinking about that, like what role do do these muscles play in the mountaineering and how do you do mountaineering? And so anyway, it's one of the factors that I actually noticed. And I definitely want to invest more in like studying it and using it potentially for myself and coaching. I think it's really big, big factor. So more about it later, because actually that's what actually something that
01:13:02
Speaker
was the main factor high up on the in the going to 8,000 meter level. So anyway, so I went to camp two, I got the water from from one of my friends, Sherpa guys. Some teams were actually getting ready. So that this was about 4 a.m. in the morning. So they were getting ready for to go up to the higher camp. I just passed through and it just kept going without stopping. i Very soon, I think 45 minutes later, I was in camp three, that was pretty kind of easy part for me.
01:13:31
Speaker
and went into the tent where I had my gear so I changed ah to my boots. I was a bit worried about that because anytime in my previous climbs last year and years before ah in um in high altitude when I stopped and I had to because I needed to put some gear on I got really stiff like my muscles got really stiff and more so Then you experience maybe, you know, in like normal altitude situation, you know, like when you're running, I guess some that's some, you know, this right from your own trust. yeah You don't want to really stop too much because then it's really hard to get going again. And it's really impressive how fast it it can happen.
01:14:09
Speaker
And so yeah, that's sort of what I was worried about also with getting cold. But luckily in the tent, I was more isolated. Last year on Broad Peak, I was changing outside. So in the night, so it was bad. I got i froze so quickly. It was ridiculous. So luckily this time, fine. Anyway, so that was basically a midpoint for the altitude elevation gain. So camp three was ah about 1600 meters higher than the base camp and I had still 1600 meters elevation gain to go. Right, so i that I was in Camp 3 and so, yeah, that was the plan. I wanted i needed to change my gear slightly, so um it was still before sunrise, by the way, so still relatively cold, but nothing nothing crazy.
01:15:03
Speaker
But i ah until then I was carrying these tights with some Gorat X, so really comfortable for for ah the speed and for the temperature I was experiencing. But then I put ah like Gorat X pants that I had from from Rob.
01:15:20
Speaker
and then changed the boots, so I was carrying them the Scarapa 6000ers, still the same crampons, so relatively quick ah change, I think it still took me i maybe 15 to 20 minutes, it still takes a while a bit, so that's what I was worried about, and I didn't really do anything else, I didn't boil any water, just really changed the gear, changed the clothes,
01:15:43
Speaker
and put ah the big bigjacket big down jacket ah if it really got cold on the summit. And then I started to start it again. um So this was now, I think it took me about four hours ah from the base camp.
01:16:01
Speaker
I believe so ah with the with the time of the change, I think, for our something. ah So this was somewhere around 5 a.m. And right above the ke Camp 3, I was still in the cloud, so still not really certain what's going on on the upper parts of the mountain and with with with the rain and snow, potential snow from the previous day. So I had some doubts.
01:16:27
Speaker
But then luckily, just above 100 meters ah above, clouds disappeared. And I was actually above the sea of clouds and it was all clear. Sun rise, so beautiful light, a really cool moment. And I could see that there was some fresh snow, and but not ah not some crazy large quantity that it it would make a and the you know the hiking kind of impossible or difficult. So there was a track, there was some people already on the trail.
01:16:58
Speaker
So from there ah to Chem4, it goes pretty much straight up the face and it's getting just steeper and steeper. There is a bit of this icy walls where you have to just kind of grab the line and fix line and climb up it. ah So it definitely brings your breaks the rhythm. I wasn't really using the fixed line, but except for those really steep parts, because I kind of felt that it was blocking my respiration ah somehow. That was an interesting uh, experience i I found. So, uh, I was just trying to stay relaxed and just keep going. I definitely felt a bit stronger than than the previous rotation. Uh, so just being patient, keep going, uh, and, uh, being careful because you definitely are walking under under some Xerox. So you just sort of never know, but there wasn't some fresh debris. So, you know, but do you have to just accept sometimes that there is some objective danger.
01:17:53
Speaker
um And yeah, I was really hoping for kind of a quick progress to then the level of 7,400. That's the level of Camp 4. But the Camp 4 is off to the stood side, on the right side. So you actually miss it and you keep going ah two towards the summit.
01:18:12
Speaker
It's not really necessary. Well, if it might be necessary if you want to use the camp, but i that was not my plan. and i so So I kept going and so then you I ended up on 7500 meters where there is this plateau, a couple hundred meters. You really are walking on flat terrain and then you will see the whole the rest of the route.
01:18:33
Speaker
which is but it kind of resembles the Boss Bridge on Mont Blanc. So it's like a series of steeper sections on the snow and like mixed with some not flat sections but yeah it's it it is right there and you can see the track and ah yeah you see that it's going to be ah really tough. So I think at that point I realized like what felt the altitude, felt the the fatigue.
01:18:57
Speaker
Um, at this point, I think it was about seven and a half, seven hours, 45 minutes, I believe. So, um, yeah, it was a good time, not, not a good time. I didn't know, but I felt it was slow. At this, at one moment I felt like, Oh, I guess it's hard. And I just still have to such a low way. This will take forever. And yeah, you just feel constrained of energy and you feel like, wow, this is the altitude. This is the real.
01:19:24
Speaker
I just have to keep going. So step by step, one step at a time. and yeah So that is what that's what it took for the next, I don't know how many hours, basically five hours for the rest of the routes, which is crazy because that was the 600 meters.
01:19:41
Speaker
um almost 700 maybe 700 meters ah that was left which usually takes me I don't know 35 minutes ah in the Alps and here ah you know well hours hours and so it really takes it out of you um there were some better moments I really got cold at one point so I put the big jacket ah but yeah yeah luckily it was good there was one moment I looked back on that sea of clouds and it was actually going up So I was like, no, please, no, please just stay down there and give me this ah this good weather. You know, um so. But then, yeah the you know, from the doubts and there were many, because there was like a long day, a long night and long day until this point, just keep pushing. And, you know, you just don't know if it's going to happen. So I felt like, OK, I think I am can make it. But well, still, I'm at the highest point I've ever been.
01:20:39
Speaker
It's still a long long way to go, far away. and you know Every step just costs you so much. um and so that was the rate that That was the deal. and was ah That was what your and what you're going through. Also, there was a one guy from my team, Matei Bernat, his name, ah really strong athlete. and so He was actually skiing. He was trying to ski from the summit.
01:21:06
Speaker
So the day before he went up to Camp 3 and he actually started then from Camp 3 around midnight. So yeah, we were sort of going the same day, but I was going from the base camp and then he actually backed up picked up his skis, which he carried ah up there during the rotation a couple of days before at 7.5, so 7,500. And as I was at that time when I was already going off 7,700, 7,800,
01:21:32
Speaker
getting closer to the summit, I was watching out for him. I knew that he was somewhere up there, and definitely hoping that he was safe. And so it happened. It was about maybe 7,900. Really like this last steep section just took me forever.
01:21:47
Speaker
I was so drained and then he was there like you know slowly skiing because it's a you do two you know like two curves and then you're just lying because you're catching the breath so yeah so we he stopped and he were we were like exchanging like really emotional it was beautiful ah really cool ah I was really happy for him and then he just had to go because well he had to go safely ah slowly down And I carried on, so getting closer and closer um to the summit.
01:22:21
Speaker
um Yeah, so I guess that's that, basically. I don't know. ah It was just really desperate, just really painful. I was just out of breath every couple of steps. So for me, the strategy usually was on these big mountains that I was able to go continuously.
01:22:39
Speaker
Right. And I had to stop sometimes say just to get something out of my backpack. But usually I had the flasks, ah you know, ready to to drink it because they usually sort of Makes you stop. But otherwise, you know, I'm usually able to go continuously. But they are the mountain the once the altitude sort of heads somewhere, maybe 6000 meters, I have to stop.
01:23:01
Speaker
ah Sometimes and actually more and more often so then for me like the mind game is Helping myself to go through that hardship is to okay I need to make 100 steps and then it's you know it kind of comes down to 80 and 50 and 30 and then you're like somewhere in like 10 steps and You're you have to stop for one two minutes. So that's that's really what it was happening and ah Then there was this break of terrain, there was a bit of flatter part and I was really, really so tired. I was really hoping that the summit is not far because I was feeling like, wow, I'm really and my at my limits ah here. um and So yeah I was just kind of sitting lying there. ah
01:23:43
Speaker
just enjoying the scenery but I definitely i wanted to make it to the summit and I think was check the time it was about 12 hours and a half so I was making a really good time but I didn't really have like a set time that it that I would be happy about I was just really at this stage just wanted to make it and so I didn't started to walk again and any ah this this was actually done sort of traverse and ah well ended up being really close but I just didn't know that I was really hoping I hope that there is not like a fake summit and all of a sudden and this new 100 meters more of something crazy steep will appear and I'll be really done so yeah I was just praying and hoping and luckily it was just a really short uphill, straverse and then this last maybe 10-15 meters steps to the flag so I could see I could see the flag ah so I just made like the steps so relatively fast so I almost ah
01:24:40
Speaker
Yeah, I almost coughed my lungs out because it was not a good idea.
Descent and Emotional Encounters
01:24:45
Speaker
And then it landed up there. It's not a flat area. It's like a step there that you can sit on and really, really sharp snowy ridge. So it's not like you can dance there or something. But yeah, it definitely took my time to catch my breath and to just enjoy the scenery. I was there alone, which was really beautiful.
01:25:09
Speaker
to to guys have that time on my own and enjoy. And yeah, I mean, I think I remember pretty much well, you know, the of course, there is some sort of mind fog, brain fog going on. But I was in control at this point still, until the fatigue really kicked in later. But the yeah, I was in control, I radioed my base camp. So that was actually cool. My friend in the base camp, he was sort of expecting it, you know, it was quite a long long hours waiting for the news and so ah he went and there was this cracking in the radio so he filmed that and and ah so I actually made you know the announcements they came in the summit hey guys you know it's like here safe and so it's cool that he got it but I found out later of course anyway ah yeah so
01:26:00
Speaker
Well, beautiful, not super, super cold, not windy. So it was good conditions. And so I knew that, okay, that this, this isn't over. I have to get down as well. ah So yeah, it's relatively steep, but well, I was, it was fine. It was, you know, I was on the fixed line on clips. So no problem there. And yeah, then.
01:26:20
Speaker
after i maybe 20 minutes, I don't know exactly, but taking photos. I tried to ah get a signal actually that I could call call my wife and my family maybe, but actually it there was no signal. It's funny because you sometimes get it. It's it's it's an interesting thing from here from the side there. Actually, you can look down to the valley ah where there is the village, so but it was just too far away.
01:26:45
Speaker
Um, but actually then i in camp three on lower on the way down, I called my mom. So it was quite cool. Uh, you know, it's from the 6,500 or something. So anyway, uh, no, but I was still up there. So started to go down. And then as I already mentioned, uh, it got really difficult. Uh, yeah. I mean, uh, the, just really had me and I really was aware of like, I'm going down like literally or figuratively just, uh,
01:27:16
Speaker
basically, reserves were down, I had like 100 mil of water left, which was not much. And I was desperately thirsty. So um yeah, I was ah aware that this is serious. And if if it gets worse, then I'm in trouble. Right. So so then yeah, I kind of called my I called my base camp and they say, guys, ah just to work for you to know that I'm sort of ah struggling here don't don't call for anybody here it's fine but I'm just ah you know check up on me maybe later you know so I gave them a notice um but then I think I met two people then lower down I didn't think one gave me a sip of water but I just didn't want to also ask more because they were also in their own own battle so you know it was not ah ethical to ask of them and I also wasn't dying dying so it was just okay just go ah and ah
01:28:12
Speaker
So yeah, again, the the big lesson, like 8,000 meter, not ah not easy, ah even on the downhill, it's still ah really difficult. But I guess it was a combination of the physical effort for um so many hours from really like 4,900 meters all the way up to 8,163 meters. So, you know, it was a big day out.
01:28:34
Speaker
And also, I guess, as I was saying, I believe it was also the dismantle of physical decompression that the body was like, just kind of let go. And it was not time to do that yet. So I had to bring myself back and, uh, okay, stay focused and, uh, make it, to make it safe. Uh, so I think maybe hour later I was, I was in the camp for, so I went actually to the sites to, to the camp for, cause I really needed water. Uh, it was really, really bad.
01:29:03
Speaker
ah So Sherpas, I think it was 8K expedition. So if anybody listens, I really am thankful. It was really cool from them because it takes efforts to bring their stoves and guests. You know, it's not nothing. It's ah they, you know, they make so much effort to bring their their gear and also well, the stuff, the make the water up there. So it was really beautiful gesture. They gave me like one a year of water and and some juice, some sugar.
01:29:30
Speaker
So it brought me back to life. So then I was feeling better and it still went down to, well, all the way, but the yeah, it's still not easy because, you know, it's still in that zone where it's the altitude is still definitely making ah an impact. And also there were some steep beds where I had to be focused um on the way down. Like it wasn't up sailing. It was just, I usually was just grabbing the rope a bit and sliding down with the gloves. It was usually okay.
01:29:59
Speaker
And yeah, then Camp 2 after some time. That it was actually 6 p.m. I remember because it was getting dark ah by then, so beautiful sunset, just beautiful light. So I was really, you i you know, I actually shed some tears. It was ah on the way, not necessarily there, but yeah, it was really cool, emotional, you know, when it kind of hits you what you're doing and where you are. ah So trying to also let it sink and and just really experience it.
01:30:28
Speaker
And there the guys from my team were actually almost ready to go for their summit. So they were actually starting to the night. So starting from there ah with oxygen, with supplemental oxygen. And like the big companies were starting right there at like 6pm. So it was interesting to see their strategy.
01:30:47
Speaker
And so my guys, they gave me soup. I think the salty soup, really. That's what brought me back on my feet. It was it was like, o finally, I feel much better. So oh then I started to walk down, put the headlamp on, ah realized that I didn't have so much battery. So I ended up ah hiking for the rest of the of the way with the ah like on that emergency mode.
01:31:12
Speaker
But it it was okay. And actually my friend Matej who skied, so he was waiting for me in to come to and we were walking down together. So because he was worried about that, I was, you know, that I gave them the message that I was really out of, out of it. So they were quite worried. So it was really cool. So from him to wait for me.
01:31:32
Speaker
And then eventually he he got really tired. It did just hit by him the fatigue from the whole day and two. So we were sort of backing up each other. I think that was cool. And yeah, and that's actually right. The upsells, camp two to camp one, that was the ice wall. So actually you were upselling. So we yeah we had to really, we're like checking up each other. ah You know, you don't want to make a mistake there. That's usually what happens. So um I guess, yeah, then we just made it. ah through base camp eventually after a long long journey down ah through the dark and well, really cool moment. Our team gave us ah well dinner, I think it was about 9.30 evening, right? So I was on the move for whatever it it was, 9.20 hour, twenty
01:32:20
Speaker
and half, maybe almost 21 hours total. So I wasn't racing down, it was just really making it down. Also, we were breaking bringing all our gear, so all the boots I had in Camp 3, so I also had to pack that and bring all down. But yeah, it was okay. I was just feeling everything and yeah
Return Plans and Reflections
01:32:39
Speaker
yeah, being tired. But then the next day, we also we left 4am, so it was a quite short night.
01:32:46
Speaker
ah because we had the alley to get out of there. We knew that there would be a very large number of people who would like to actually evacuate. ah So if if you don't do that, then, you know, we just get stuck there for days and also the bad weather was coming, so we were quite worried. You know, we just don't want to be in the lodge or in the village for too many days, which which actually happened for many, many people. So so actually, yeah, that was my summit day. And don't know, it's still interesting to, of course, to to talk about it, because I kind of reopened that in my in in my mind and the memories. ah And every time you remember something different. So it's quite cool. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. um its Yeah, it it must be so interesting after kind of the initial, I mean, when you got down,
01:33:40
Speaker
Were you able to reflect a bit and kind of like have have an emotional response or were you just so tired you're like, ah like just relief? No, I i think I was still there. I was still aware of what it was going on.
01:33:58
Speaker
I wasn't really, ah I think I wasn't really sure how to feel about it, you know, if the time was good or, so I was, I was maybe not aware of all of those things because well, it's, it's a big experience and you know, it's, it's just such a long journey. ah yeah Basically almost 24 hours that you go through this and with so many doubts, as I was describing, ah but you just keep going as you, as you have to go, right? Like you run an ultra, so you just,
01:34:24
Speaker
Well, it's a kind of a thing where you don't know if you make it till the end, even though you're really physically prepared and fit. You just so many factors that again, you you don't control. Maybe more like physical ones. Uh, so this is maybe something, um, that I needed more time for sure. I needed, uh, some more time, days and weeks, and it may be still need more are now for sure to actually realize what, what happened. And, uh, so I guess, uh,
01:34:54
Speaker
I was super happy, you all but also, well, it was just time to eat, time to sleep a bit. And and then I was like, wow, if we can get back to Kathmandu, have
Recovery and Sharing the Experience
01:35:05
Speaker
a good shower. And, you know, after some weeks spent in the base camp, you know, I could really want to all of a sudden like, okay, and then I can actually decompress and really relax and just sleep.
01:35:17
Speaker
So that's actually what happened the next day. We ended up in Kathmandu all of a sudden. So just ah such a big transfer. transfer i ah so um yeah so I was sleeping a lot. I was really tired and my face was burned. My lips were super inflamed. So yeah, then the odds just kind of let go physically. So maybe that the fatigue was there.
01:35:40
Speaker
Yeah, I need I think that to talk about my experience with my family with my wife from my friends. ah I think that's where I started to realize what ah what I actually experienced and maybe in terms of performance as well. you know it's ah You know, maybe I had different expectations. I guess I did. I always maybe operate like that. And, you know, might be a tricky thing where then it's you know you you might set those expectations really high and you know ah you end up doing doing something which might not meet them but actually on the way there you still accomplish something relay really cool to so to you know to some extent. So I think for me it took a while and i'm until today I'm just no regrets and I'm super happy.
01:36:29
Speaker
um about that. yeah And also, as I was saying, sort of that mental tick list I had. right So ah I managed a big part of it. So um I think i I should be satisfied with that. and and But also, um maybe that that acceptance that we talked about at the beginning beginning, I realized, and I was actually quite happy about this, ah that I was able to be OK if I didn't summit.
01:36:58
Speaker
That was important for me that I, and I was okay, of course, because you need to be sometimes it just doesn't happen. And like we talked about it also, but the at the same time, what I mean by that is that I learned so much, you know, from a perspective of an athlete.
01:37:15
Speaker
from a perspective of a coach and also being involved somehow in the research for of altitude physiology. right So it gave me so many insights that you know it was definitely not a time wasted on the but the opposite. And ah and so the the summit that it happened, well, you know amazing. ah So yeah, I guess then people started to ask me like, who else?
Post-summit Reflections and Future Plans
01:37:40
Speaker
What's next? you must ah you must be you know You must already have ideas. and And I was there, I think it was in Kathmandu. And I was sitting in there, I was like, ah no idea. I didn't think about it for a second yeah ah yet. But at that point, it was just, say i was I was just back. So I was still actually there on Manaslu and really kind of immersed immersed emerged in that experience still. So yeah, there's time to think about the future. But yeah, I guess then some inspiration came. but
01:38:14
Speaker
This was really like the first day so where yeah was it was just so you know so powerful that ah I was definitely not ready to think about ah future objectives. yeah i mean i thing like i feel this I feel that a lot too. um i kind of of always Not always, but I've accepted that I probably will never be a person who's content.
01:38:42
Speaker
And, but after a race or something where you've truly, you know, you've done your best for that moment. maybe Maybe you could have done better in the, you know, you've done your best for that moment. And I always find the day or two afterwards is I go, Oh, that's what content in this feels like. And it's not what's next because you've done the job, the, the dream, et cetera, to the best of your ability. And.
01:39:08
Speaker
I'm glad you were able to just sit with that before the next thing came. And i to me, that's probably the only time I ever feel truly content is that day or two after an event where it's like, I can just sit, I eat, I am full of joy and gratitude for what I've done. And I don't feel this undying need to go do what's next. Like I do the rest of my life.
01:39:39
Speaker
that's ah That's really well said. I think I realized this ah actually recently that ah somehow this growth mindset, I believe, that's that's the that was a big realization to understand myself better. And I think this is what you just described.
01:39:56
Speaker
where, you know, for a large part of my life, I've been unsatisfied. So that was a driver for me to push harder, to train harder, to ah study harder and, you know, just try to strive to, I guess, ah do better in different areas of my life, but without necessarily knowing this. So for me, this is actually yeah exactly that. I think, is there going to be ah done another mountain? I mean, for sure, Deeply, I would like to still find another challenge.
01:40:26
Speaker
but also being able to accept that maybe it will not happen for different reasons. but you know ah yeah i guess this that i am I was satisfied, like it was really nice, beautiful feeling. But also, ah now I understand myself better if I say, OK, like I just climbed this mountain, why can I just not be, you know, OK with and, you know, but ah I it's OK. I'm super happy to be back in training and, you know, enjoying also some downtime ah after the mountain because I needed that. My body definitely was tired. I really felt it like i when I got back home
01:41:07
Speaker
to Chamonix. That was actually two weeks later, because I stayed in Kathmandu for some research. But ah maybe that was also good. It was nice to stay in that place, Nepal, Kathmandu experience some history places there and just kind of, you know, um experience also that a bit and gave me some time to reflect ah before I actually flew back home to Well, it's good to be home, but also, you know, ah kind of the familiar zone of comfort. When I got back home then, I really felt like, wow, my my body just shut down. And it usually happens after these big objectives, especially in autumn somehow. Yeah, I start to feel these ah mini injuries or, you know, it just, that yeah, the body just needs it needs a bed. So now I'm, I kind of expect it. So yeah, I just gave the body. um
01:42:02
Speaker
couple of weeks of okay low maintenance. yeah No, I think that's good. I think it's important to recognize that. And sometimes your body just takes it whether or not you want it. That's true. yeah yeah Whether you want it or not. Well, Martin, thank you for sharing this. I think as kind of a ah last piece,
01:42:27
Speaker
The words that you wrote and that I was searching for earlier were, 12 hours, 49 minutes, no supplemental oxygen, my first 8,000-der, just the way I dreamed it. I smile, I am, just simply am, no more going up. On top of Manasalu alone, views far in all directions. It's really beautiful. Thank you. ah Yeah, I was... I don't even remember, you know, who goes... was the but Of course, I wrote it later, but actually the the experience, the emotions, you i I guess they changed with the time. so ah but that's That's how I felt it. like it that's That's how it was. Really, really beautiful, really profound. yeah
01:43:16
Speaker
I think you should frame those words ah with with a photo. it yeah could i definite Certainly worthy of that. um thank Awesome. Well, Martin, thank you so much for sharing that. I i know that you are accepting clients for working on their own 8,000 meter peaks and less than more in all of the pieces in between. So if you'd like to work with Martin, he's available um as far as I know. Yeah, yeah it's it's a busy season because now Akon Kagwa is coming coming and then Everest is basically around the corner. It's for five months and then you know is all of a sudden there is this spring season for
01:44:05
Speaker
48,000 meter peaks and other objectives. But now I'm happy to reach out if you want advice or consultation or coaching. I'm happy to help share what I learned. Awesome. Well, thank you, Martin. And thank you for listening to the Upla Athlete podcast. If you can rate, review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms, that helps us to reach more athletes and help them have these experiences and reach their dreams and goals as well. So thanks, Martin. Thanks, Elisa. Thank you.