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How to Eat for Recovery: Nutrition Strategies for Mountain Athletes
4.7k Plays5 days ago
In this episode of the Uphill Athlete Podcast, host Steve House is joined by in-house dietitian Alyssa Leib to explore the crucial role of nutrition in athletic recovery. They debunk common myths around overtraining and emphasize that under-recovery, often due to poor nutrition, is a very common issue. Alyssa highlights the importance of sufficient calorie, protein, and especially carbohydrate intake, along with timing meals around workouts to optimize performance and healing. They discuss recovery strategies like drinking milk before bed, magnesium supplementation, and using antioxidant-rich foods like tart cherry juice among others. They underscore that good nutrition and quality sleep are the foundation of successful recovery for mountain athletes.
Visit us at uphillathlete.com or write to us at coach@uphillathelte.com to connect with Alyssa and learn more about our nutrition offerings.
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Transcript
Introduction to Athlete Recovery
00:00:00
Speaker
You're probably not eating enough to support your training, support your recovery. But I think a lot of athletes are surprised to find that just some little tweaks in their carb intake, especially after a workout, can do so many incredible things to the amount of soreness that they feel moving forward.
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. i'll be your host today, Steve House, and joining me is Alisa Lieb. Alisa is going to talk about diet and recovery. Alisa, as you know, is our in-house dietitian. Welcome, Alisa.
00:00:36
Speaker
Thanks,
Role of Nutrition in Recovery
00:00:37
Speaker
Steve. Happy to be here. i know this is a really important conversation that I get a lot of questions about, but Yeah, I've had a lot of athletes who I think initially, you know, reach out to me to work together because they find that they're having trouble recovering. Absolutely. Now their coach, whether it's you or somebody else, kind of sends them in my direction. So it's very important to talk about. Yeah.
00:01:01
Speaker
And, you know, there's also kind of this... I would say lore around recovery. And I remember years ago, somebody telling me there's no such thing as overtraining, just under recovery, which, you know there's a grain, there is like any of these things that sounds good, like a soundbite, there is a grain of truth to it.
00:01:22
Speaker
Um, it's not strictly true of course, but, The diet and nutrition component of recovery is is is big. And I think it's really important for our athletes community because we have a lot of people, whether they're like trekking to Everest Base Camp and they're staying in a different lodge every night, or they're doing a a mountaineering trip and they're camping every night, or they're on an expedition and they're at a base camp for two months, or they're training to do their first fifty k
00:01:53
Speaker
and they're building up into running volumes that they've never experienced before. I mean, any one of these use cases is going to be you know calling into question and ah how well a person is you know providing nutrients to their body through their through their, hopefully, primarily diet, and as we've talked about, also possibly some supplementation.
Recognizing Insufficient Nutritional Intake
00:02:17
Speaker
But this can be a real area where people can, i think, improve with just a few, i'd say, relatively simple tweaks and some basic good understanding and knowledge of how how the diet can support recovery. So so let's let's dive into it. like How much does a person need to eat when they're training for their first fifty k floed um Yeah, you know, and it's, it's, again, like always hard to give a general recommendation, just because especially something like calorie in intake is so individual, we've got genetic factors, individual metabolic factors, um you know, everyone's body is going to utilize.
00:03:00
Speaker
energy more or less efficiently, just depending on, you know, whatever's going on in their body. um So there's, there's a lot of factors that go into it. And this is something that, you know, I work with a lot of athletes on is trying to just really be detectives and, and help identify signs in their own body that maybe they're not quite meeting their needs. So really looking at those subtle cues, you know, hunger, of course, being a less subtle one, if you're feeling hungry, you need to eat, you're probably not eating enough um to support your training, support your recovery, but then really just getting in tune with how your body feels and being able to identify when something feels a little bit off, when you feel like you're, you know, not able to perform, your energy levels feel a little bit low, you're having more fatigue than you're used to, your recovery is feeling pretty bad in between sessions.
Assessing Athlete Recovery Status
00:03:50
Speaker
These are all going to be things that
00:03:52
Speaker
really help us dictate, okay, well, let's let's bump up your nutrition. and Let's make sure that you are eating more so that you can support your recovery through all of this. Yeah, that's great. And as I think about, like, my coaching and and what the discussions what discussions we have on the coaching team, you know we talk a lot about the the art and the science of coaching, right? And the art, I think, is often i' when I'm asking athletes about, you know, how are you doing today? How do you feel this morning? Just those, like, just that...
00:04:24
Speaker
They think it's just like nice banter. And on some level, of course, it is. But I'm also like I'm looking for those little clues, little words that they might say, like, yeah, I'm still sore after that workout or, you know, I didn't sleep that well. or And then those are things like I'm kind of drilling into because a lot of people will have this – feeling that you know they should just be tough like i shouldn't complain you know i should of course i'm sore because i'm training a lot or of course like i do not sleeping very well and because i have restless legs at night or whatever it is and and once a lot of times i'm just telling people like hey you know
00:05:08
Speaker
you know you got to tell me when you're sore or when you feel like restless legs at night or when you know yourre you know you know you need to eat but you've actually lost your appetite or any of these things that can happen because ah those are those are things we actually need to dig into and and uncover, like as you said, be detectives about and like figure out what's going on because that's how we keep the wheels from like completely falling off by catching things as early as possible.
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's super interesting. And i guess, you know, I know this
Balancing Training Intensity and Recovery
00:05:43
Speaker
moves away from the nutrition conversation, but i i would be very curious from your perspective as a coach, what level of fatigue um and DOMS and soreness and, you know, lack of recovery is, you know, either expected or even in some cases sort of part of the intended training effect? Because I know that's just to your point, I think a lot of athletes sort of feel like, well, this is a normal component of it. And so they don't think about it. Or on the other end of the spectrum, I also get athletes who come to me and they're like, well, I was really sore after my workout yesterday. And I asked them more questions about it and, you know, come to find out that it was a really long run with a lot of vert and, you know, it was some soreness there is to be expected. So what, what is that appropriate amount?
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, and of course, I'm sorry to say that the answer is it depends. But if um um I kind of think about it, and there's this great chart that we have in the books about um kind of the the intensity as it relates to the recovery period.
00:06:49
Speaker
And it sort of is this, I think, that the textbook chart that's in a lot of physiology books, so which will say, you know, a strength training load you know you're going to be sore for up to 48 hours a zone two workout you know you're going to be fatigued for you know six to 24 hours a zone one workout should you know make you feel better within a couple of hours um these kinds of things and and while that's generally true um you know if you're doing when you're doing
00:07:22
Speaker
especially athletes that are more progressed in their training, and they've been training for more than four months, they start to get into some weeks where they've got some pretty hard workouts, you know, maybe a muscular endurance workout that's hard, maybe a long zone two workout, and you start to stack those.
00:07:40
Speaker
And this, the, We think a lot as coaches about the training density, which means like how close ah together in in time are the hard workouts and how much they're separated by a recovery rent workout or a rest day.
00:07:56
Speaker
And you can really you you know you start with those lot big training loads pretty isolated from each other in terms of a 7 to 10 day cycle. but as But one of the ways you progress people is by moving those closer together. Because that's what the event is like, right? The event is that you're going to do all this in one day or all of this in a two-day period.
00:08:16
Speaker
So you're you're building towards that. And so when you start to, like, you know, you should be kind of treading that line where it's like anything more than...
00:08:27
Speaker
two days, I actually really want to know about it. And I had an athlete the other day, he did 15,000 feet, okay, in one day. So just a ah huge workout. Yeah, that was four or five days ago now, and he's still sore.
00:08:42
Speaker
And he was mentioning that today, which is great. And we talked about it. And we talked about how he could support his recovery and making sure he was eating enough carbohydrate and that kind of thing. But ah that's a workout that's so hard. And, you know, it's like, Yeah, OK, you know, i'm ah I'm probably not going to prescribe that workout again right away. And ah maybe i overreached a little bit with it as a coach. And that was actually a little bit too much because I see now he's he's sore four or five days later.
00:09:12
Speaker
um so But at the same time, this guy's in his twenty s you know he's He's young. He's he's strong. He's healthy. you know I'm not really that worried about it. like If that was an athlete, like one of my other athletes who's 57 and you know has some history of some you know joint joints that are a little cranky, you know that would be another thing. like I wouldn't be...
Optimizing Carbohydrate and Caloric Intake
00:09:38
Speaker
going near him with that kind of workout so you know you have to you have to take this all into consideration but i think that i think that you know 24 to 48 hours is pretty normal and when it starts to extend beyond and into 72 hours you got to really start asking questions bring yeah That's very interesting. And I think it also shows the benefits of having you know a multidisciplinary coaching team. right So yeah you know that's something where we can be in conversation about you know mutual athletes who we coach to to get a better understanding of, okay, well, do do I as the dietitian really need to start tweaking this athlete's nutrition because they're experiencing this kind of soreness or was that the intended effect? Yeah.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I think one of the things that we are most tuned into is carbohydrate, right? Like, especially during training. And, you know, we've we've seen this big shift in our approach, and it's been working great, paying great dividends. People are...
00:10:43
Speaker
recovering better and basically just progressing better through their training because they're eating enough carbohydrate during the training maybe i think is less of a less of a factor but especially after the training before and after the training and not going into these things fasted i think that's really proving out to just be a ah huge improvement Yeah, I have worked with countless athletes who are shocked because i think and I guess just backing up a little, I think a lot of us have this our kind of conception that when it comes to recovery, what we care about is protein, because protein is what we need to build muscle. And we do need protein. We absolutely need protein. But yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
I think a lot of athletes are surprised to find that just some little tweaks in their carb intake, especially after a workout, can do so many incredible things to the amount of soreness that they feel moving forward. It really, really often does come down to carbs.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and When I was training full time, would, I mean, this just sort of developed instinctually, but I would make a peanut butter and jelly bagel and have it there in the, in the, in the car at the trailhead.
00:12:02
Speaker
waiting for me because i knew when i got back i was just ravenous after a big workout and also had read you know back then it was you know nancy clark sports nutrition bible remember that mean that was this is 25 years ago and that was the that was a state of the art and that's what she was you know recommending back then so um you know that was that was uh that's just good still sort of I think of it as good hygiene almost like ah its it's dietary hygiene after working out to get that immediate snack in and get enough carbs and stuff.
00:12:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Nancy Clark's, by the way, is still the Bible. Is it still? Yeah. It must be in like the 15th edition or something now. It's pretty. Actually, i have it on my desk.
00:12:49
Speaker
I have the 6th edition. So it's a couple years old at this point, but it's very much still something that I commonly see recommended. um i like it, I guess, just as a plug for anybody listening. I think it does a really good job of tying in some of the science without being overwhelming. So I think it is still pretty...
00:13:08
Speaker
ah digestible for you know an average audience who maybe is interested in the science. so yeah I'm not sponsored by Nancy Clark, by the way. Right, right. No affiliate program here.
00:13:20
Speaker
So what are some of the you know things that you recommend? I mean, first thing is checking that people are getting enough carbs. um People instinctively are probably already thinking about protein. We've talked about supplementing with protein and another podcast and article, what are some of the hacks that you've seen work for recovery?
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess I will caveat all of this with if you are not meeting those kind of basic nutrition strategies, needs and that you just mentioned, Steve, the hacks are really not going to do anything for you. So you know first and foremost, are you eating enough total calories? Because if you are not, there is no amount of tart cherry juice that you can take that is going to make you feel better. You need the calories. There's no way around that. um So beyond the calories, I'm also checking on, are we getting enough total carbs? Are we getting enough total protein? And then I'm also looking at um just the timing of all of your meals. So really looking at
00:14:19
Speaker
Okay, well, when are you eating relative to your training? Are you eating consistently throughout the day so that your body is getting a consistent stream of energy so it can continue to do that repair work? um You know, when are you eating relative to finishing your training? Yeah.
00:14:34
Speaker
Is there a way that we can move that recovery meal closer? And so's so there's a lot of different things going on when it comes to actual food. And once you have those kind of dialed in I would say only then should you start thinking about some of these habits. OK.
00:14:50
Speaker
And there are, you know, there's a lot of different sort of approaches to this. um You know, the first one that I generally recommend to people who are kind of interested in that optimization, like taking that next step um is pretty simple glass of milk before bed. um There is, you know, actually some substance behind this.
00:15:09
Speaker
I've mentioned in in previous podcasts, milk really has two different types of protein in it. And so we normally think of whey protein. That's where you know, most of our protein powders end up being whey.
00:15:21
Speaker
um But there's actually another protein in milk called casein that tends to sort of drive the show from a bedtime recovery perspective, which is pretty cool. So the glass of milk can improve your sleep quality, which is pretty nice. um So that's sort of why that's the, you know, standard that our moms used to tell us when we were little. Drink your warm glass of milk before bed, and you'll sleep really well. Mom was right.
00:15:46
Speaker
Once again. Usually is. She usually is. So that that glass of milk or, you know, it could be a yogurt. um In some cases, a casein supplement could be an option um that will improve your sleep quality. And it also helps with just muscle recovery and repair while you sleep. So sleep.
00:16:05
Speaker
And I guess I didn't mention this with sort of that baseline thing you have to do. um around our nutrition, but getting enough sleep is the other kind of key thing that you really can't hack yourself away from.
Improvements in Sleep and Muscle Recovery
00:16:16
Speaker
You have to be getting enough sleep. That's where most of our recovery happens.
00:16:19
Speaker
um But glass of milk, pretty simple. Okay. What else? I've done my milk. What do do next? So next I would be thinking about ah what are some other things that we can do to promote sleep if that is a concern.
00:16:38
Speaker
So magnesium is the one that usually comes to mind for that. Certain forms, there's magnesium. I know we've talked extensively about supplements at this point and how overwhelming it can be to walk into that store and see 30,000 options.
00:16:51
Speaker
Magnesium, I think, is a really good example of this because there are so many different forms of magnesium and many of them are sort of designed for different things. So if you are trying to improve your sleep quality or relax your muscles and you take magnesium citrate,
00:17:08
Speaker
you are going to wake up the next morning with a bathroom emergency. It's not going to do the thing that it's supposed to do. um But when it comes to muscle relaxation, sleep, things that can support recovery, um I'm normally recommending a magnesium glycinate or bisglycinate form. And really this just acts as a muscle relaxant. So a really common supplement brand that you'll see is called Calm, C-A-L-M.
00:17:36
Speaker
And it really is designed to be taken 30 minutes before bed and it just relaxes your muscles, helps you to feel you know kind of sleepy and then promotes that muscle recovery overnight. um It doesn't have to be a supplement either.
00:17:50
Speaker
you know Eating a handful of nuts ah can provide you with some of that magnesium before bed that can have a really similar effect. So that's something else that I would try. Yeah, that's interesting. So one of the things that we used to do alpine climbing, was I would have a Ziploc bag of cashews. and Because one of the things that happens with alpine climbing is you get to the place you're going to bivy, then you usually have quite a bit of work to do to like prepare the spots. You can lay down and to get the stove going and all of these things. And often, you have no water whatever, and we would just eat unsalted, dry roasted cashews or raw cashews.
00:18:29
Speaker
um just because they're like It was ah one of these nuts that we could kind of get down when we were still kind of thirsty and we were starting to just get some some something in in in us that was going to help just replenish calories.
00:18:45
Speaker
I wasn't so concerned about the macronutrient distribution. It was just more like, what can we carry and eat that is relatively calorie dense and easy to get get in at the end of a long day?
00:18:59
Speaker
Well, and there's a lot of, you know, we've, we've talked about this both on this podcast and I know I have talked about it all the time, but at the end of the day, as an athlete, the most important thing you can do nutritionally is make sure that you are eating enough calories and nuts are a really great way to do that. Um,
00:19:14
Speaker
Obviously, we talked about you know the importance of eating carbs and we talk about protein. I feel like fat sometimes kind of takes a back seat. But at the end of the day, fat, which is you know primarily what nuts are, is a really incredible way to meet your calorie needs.
00:19:29
Speaker
So you are probably you know supporting your recovery in more ways than one through that. what What other hacks are up your sleeve? Yeah. Yeah, the other big one, and this is one I get so many questions about, which is why I've kind of saved it for last because I wanted people to hear about drinking milk and eating nuts first, um is really these antioxidants. um And there's a few different ones that we've seen kind of pop up on the market. If you go on the feed, you know you can buy them in convenient little packets or you know there's even pill forms that you can take them. So they make it really easy for you to kind of maximize these antioxidants. um
00:20:08
Speaker
I guess I can go into a little bit on just kind of what is an antioxidant and why do we want it? Because I know that is ah very much a um radicalized term that has, you know, kind of been thrown around to the point where I think most people don't realize that it does actually mean something. um But essentially when we put, ah when we do work, when we put stress on our body, our body produces these things called free radicals or free oxygen species. um This is what,
00:20:37
Speaker
Whenever we think about like x-rays and the damage that causes, that's essentially what we're thinking about. But exercise actually causes our body to produce these free radicals at a higher rate. um And so the more you're training, the more work you're putting your body through, the more you are producing these free radicals that can really cause damage to your cells.
00:20:57
Speaker
And that's where antioxidants come in because they really help to almost, I'm going to use the word buffer, but that's not the scientific process that's happening. But that's essentially what happens is these antioxidants come in and almost buffer out these free radicals um so that it prevents this cell damage from occurring. and So antioxidants are very much something that we're still trying to learn about you know in the context of just regular nutrition and nutrients that people have heard of, vitamin C. is a really powerful antioxidant um that's an example the mineral selenium is a powerful antioxidant but plants also have these things called phytonutrients which they're not nutrients but they're just little compounds that we find in fruits and vegetables and they can have antioxidant properties as well um and so that really is where things like tart cherry juice or black currants uh really have their power um
00:21:51
Speaker
And I kind of like to describe both of these things as almost like blueberries on steroids. So blueberries have this really strong antioxidant effect um because of the phytonutrients that they contain.
00:22:03
Speaker
Both tart cherries and blackcurrants have a very high concentration of very similar antioxidants like that. So it takes a smaller dose to have a larger effect.
00:22:13
Speaker
um And these are things... you know You can buy tart cherries. You can buy tart cherry juice in a bottle. um I assume that somewhere in the world you can buy black currants. I have not personally seen those at my grocery store.
00:22:28
Speaker
But that's really where you know these supplements can be really beneficial. um Again, if you just need that hack, that extra edge for your recovery, you've done all of these other things. and you just want to really make sure that you are maximizing your recovery, and that's where turning to things like tart cherry juice or blackcurrants can really help um with that recovery process.
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah. And you know one of the threads i'm I'm hearing here is that a lot of this, maybe not so much black... I mean, tart cherry juice is also kind of promoted as a sleep aid, right? Yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And so all of these things have this kind of thread of sleep through them, it feels like. Like the glass of milk before bed, the the magnesium, the calm ah magnesium, the black tart cherry juice, all of these things. And having enough food, having high-quality food,
00:23:30
Speaker
having enough carbohydrate, enough macronutrients, and then being able to sleep well, I mean, that's the thread. Like, that's the bottom line, is everything is leading up towards that good night's rest.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Which is, ah you know, especially for a lot of uphill athletes, and I'm sure the majority of people who are listening to this, it's it's hard. You know, people who are balancing having a family, having a career, and then on top of it, you know, trying to do all of this training, it's it's hard to find eight hours of sleep, let alone, you know, nine or 10, which is what many of us need, especially when we're, you know, engaging in a higher level of training. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, great.
00:24:20
Speaker
Well, this has been super useful. I'm going to go out and make sure I get some tar jerry tart cherry juice and see if I can find some sleepy magnesium concoction.
00:24:33
Speaker
But it I will continue to listen to what mom said and drink my glass of milk before bed. Okay. I like to that one of the best recovery things. I remember one time being doing a climb in the Black Canyon.
00:24:50
Speaker
And when I got back to my campsite, my friend Josh Wharton had left me a little bottle of chocolate milk. and I love that chocolate milk is still... had taken some ice out of his cooler and sort of packed it around the carton and it was sitting there on the table and it was all kind of melting by then.
00:25:07
Speaker
But I like that you know sometimes these very simple things... you know What is but does chocolate milk have it in it that makes it a good recovery drink? Well, it has casein as you said, but it also just has sugar. has carbohydrates.
00:25:20
Speaker
um And, you know, those are, it it doesn't have to be super complicated. It doesn't have to be, ah you know, this blend of mysterious powders and everything else. It can it can be, as as my wife used to call it, science food.
00:25:38
Speaker
It doesn't have to be science food. It can be just like regular old food that we we know what it where it comes from. So
Final Advice on Recovery and Nutrition
00:25:45
Speaker
that's great. So drink your chocolate milk too. And that's my that's my recovery hack.
00:25:51
Speaker
Also not an ad, not sponsored by chocolate milk. Not sponsored by chocolate milk. So thanks everyone for listening. Thank you, Elisa, bringing your knowledge and helping us figure out how to support recovery through proper nutrition.
00:26:07
Speaker
Remember, we're not just one, but a community together. we are a pillow athlete. I've been your host, Steve House. Thanks for joining us.