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56 - Powerless - Uncanny X-Men #185-189
88 Plays2 days ago
If you like Storm, folks, then tune the heck in to this one! We delve deep into the identity of Ororo Munroe through an incredible, character-driven run, including Chris Claremont & Barry Windsor-Smith's iconic LIFEDEATH! Plus Selene, the Hellfire Club, Rachel Summers, and even some ROM Spaceknight-adjacent stuff!
Topics Discussed:
ROM Spaceknight. Drowning survey. Egg. We’re two guys with alive dads, and we won’t apologize for it. Does Rogue know how her powers work? LIFEDEATH! WRAITHKILL! Analog phones. Storm vs Forge. Superheroes with guns. Counting Storm’s suitors. Alien soul. Jaime Rodriguez is here! “That’s meant to be sipped.” Sexual colonial-era fashion. DelCo Amanda Sefton. Child militia.
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - The best theme song in the biz
7:16 - Pat’s Email Corner
20:28 - X-Men Related Things
22:21 - Uncanny X-Men #185: Public Enemy
38:16 - Uncanny X-Men #186: LIFEDEATH
1:08:50 - Uncanny X-Men #187: Wraithkill!
1:19:41 - Uncanny X-Men #188: Legacy of the Lost
1:35:09 - Uncanny X-Men #189: Two Girls Out to Have Fun!
1:54:00 - Final Thoughts
1:57:51 - Pat’s Steals n Deals
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Transcript
Live Report from Westchester
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Trish Tobey with W.A.R.C. reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
Introduction to Mutant Menace
00:00:37
Speaker
Hey, I'm Pat Reber. And I'm Matt Aucamp. And say it with us, Pete. Welcome to Mutant Menace. Oh, Matt.
00:00:49
Speaker
Yes, Patrick. What's up, ah buddy? How are you? I'm doing all
X-Men Iconic Storylines Discussion
00:00:54
Speaker
right. andm i'm I'm excited to talk about life death. Life death. Tell us about life death, Matt. tell Talk about it right now.
00:01:03
Speaker
All right. Issue number 186. No, i this is a good... We're back to the X-Men this week, huh? We are back to the X-Men, and we're back to, yet again, an iconic story.
00:01:16
Speaker
Yes. i This... Man, yeah. This whole run, people...
00:01:25
Speaker
There are shallow parts of the Claremont run. Yeah, but it is astonishing how many just classic, like, like top tier stories are packed into this. Yeah. Like not just not just X-Men defining, but genre defining. Yeah.
00:01:48
Speaker
Comic runs. And this is, i would say, probably one of the more undersung Sure. Of the the legendary ones. I think this is a
Marvel Universe Blizzard & Dire Wraiths
00:01:58
Speaker
huge deal. I hadn't read it. I had heard about it, but had heard very little about it. and Right.
00:02:03
Speaker
i Honestly, if you've X-Men 97, you might be able to, you might recognize a few factors here as well. But to what a story. I'm very excited to get into this.
00:02:15
Speaker
Life, death, or wraith kill? ah Okay, so we should address a couple of elephants in the room.
00:02:25
Speaker
and Number one, still, there is a blizzard plaguing all of the Marvel Universe. Thor Winter. The entirety of Earth, thanks to Thor. Just keep that in mind, because d i the characters don't always...
00:02:44
Speaker
And then the other being dire wraiths. Yeah. Remember where we last saw dire wraiths? This is all part of a raw a company-wide ROM event called the like the Wraith War or some shit like that.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. Insane. It's so wild to think that the background of life-death is... A ROM story. Is a ROM shoot-off. Yeah, yeah. yes it's the i Wild in the first place to and to think that ROM at any point was powerful enough to impact other branches of the Marvel Universe.
Forge and ROM Technology
00:03:23
Speaker
The character of forge Comes from ROM. Like, not, it wasn't introduced in ROM, but his whole thing here was, oh, I've replicated ROM's technology. And that's why I'm important to this story.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I can't handle that. I think we both tried to minimize ah the Wraith involvement in our recaps here. But at some points, it's unavoidable. and you just have to kind of close your eyes and forget that it's ROM space night.
00:03:51
Speaker
The fucking, the fucking, the the stories, we, I don't think we get into it, but the stories get into like the classifications of the different kinds of dire wraiths. Like, oh, these are the dire wraith warlocks. These are the dire wraith hellhounds. These are the dire wraith, what were the the ones that fly? the Dreadwings or whatever. And I mean, who's, who's writing Rom Space Knight at this point?
00:04:16
Speaker
Billy Mantlo. Bill Mantlo. So, of course, Chris Claremont is going to give his best friend a leg up and say, yeah you know what? You know what, buddy? Thor's not the only one that can impact the entire Marvel Universe.
00:04:31
Speaker
And this is still, we're still in we're still dealing with some post-Secret Wars stuff that's wearing off. the The moment it wears off, Secret Wars 2 is going to kick in. But right now, we're in that little, that sweet interim spot.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So, savor this, folks. And Wolverine and Kitty Pryde are off in their miniseries. So... Not here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ah
X-Men Characters Updates
00:04:58
Speaker
what else, Matt? keep Catch us up on the X-Men because ah outside of the Wolverine and Kitty Pryde miniseries, it's been a little while.
00:05:05
Speaker
It's been a little while. Well, okay. So um well some new mutant stuff is affecting the X-Men here too. So first, Rogue is a part of ah the X-Men now, and she has just been framed by the Hellfire Club for the murder of a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent.
Storm's Leadership & Evolution
00:05:20
Speaker
You might remember – she has the memories of Carol Danvers and you know, there was a whole thing with, uh,
00:05:28
Speaker
Colonel Michael Rossi. Colonel Michael Rossi. Rachel Summers, starting in New Mutants, I believe, has just returned from the Days of Future Past timeline. And she fought Selene and then ah collapsed in a heap. And she was like, the world is doomed because she thinks she, well, I guess she knows she came back to the wrong timeline.
00:05:49
Speaker
Nothing yeah in her past lines up with this present. Exactly. Exactly. um storm she's still all fucked up since she died and then met yukio she gave up plants she became a punk she uh she's leader of the morlocks and the x-men now and uh she's gotten like a little more fierce a little more violent uh and then yeah there's forge forge is around I love this era of storm that we've been seeing and like punk storm.
00:06:20
Speaker
It focuses the storytelling around her, but it's been so it's been such a good story, like watching her. Yeah, we talked about it last last time we covered the uncanny run, but.
00:06:34
Speaker
She died and came back thanks to the space whales. i She was a space whale for a minute. And has been slowly, I wouldn't say rebuilding, like reshaping her life since. She's been rethinking her vows, her mission, and I think has just been a better and at sometimes sometimes nobler character because of it.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, because before she was just kind of like a flawless goddess person, and now she is a person who is, like most of the other X-Men, overcoming a flaw to be a hero.
00:07:13
Speaker
Right. is do Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Reader Emails & Humorous Discussions
00:07:18
Speaker
Okay. All right. We were talking. Nope. Sebastian knows best. It is time... To get into Pat's email corner, we got a few here, Matt. Sebastian Bach.
00:07:33
Speaker
Primarily. Don't tell people. ah Primarily about the survey we asked for back in episode 54. Let's start with Pete.
00:07:47
Speaker
Folks, you know Pete. Pete. He just talked to us during the intro of the show. Welcome to Mutant Menace. Pete, you're supposed to have already left. So imagine imagine this whole email in that voice.
00:08:01
Speaker
Hey, Matt, tell Pat that I'd rather... Wait a second. Wait a second. Tell Pat that I'd rather drown in pilk mainly due to viscosity.
00:08:11
Speaker
I hate mayonnaise as much as I hate Jack Black. Fuck mayonnaise. I thought you were going to say piss. I was positive you were saying piss, but you'd rather drown in pilk and you hate mayonnaise. I like mayonnaise. I put mayonnaise on all my sandwiches, even my peanut butter and jellies. No, that's not true. That last part is not true.
00:08:32
Speaker
If you don't recall that, because yeah it seems like you might not. Well, we asked people if they'd rather drown in mayonnaise or pilk. Okay. Just want to make sure that you understand where we're at. It's normal. It's normal question.
00:08:47
Speaker
ah In terms of who I'd pick, we also would ask them to pick one X-Man to drown with them. Ha ha!
00:08:58
Speaker
So that it's X-Men related. We're so smart. I'd probably pick Iceman. Not because I dislike him or want him to drown. i just like to see what happens to Mayo when it freezes.
00:09:11
Speaker
But you just said you'd rather jail. And then he does the shruggy guy. So... We kind of presented two scenarios. here let's Let's go back. We'll refresh everybody's memory. Okay. Drowning in pilk, which we determined is different because you would like find your way up to the curds and be able to at least keep yourself afloat only to find that there's a layer of foam above it that's not really filled with oxygen.
00:09:35
Speaker
Oh, right, right, right. Because you'd be breathing. Yes. Okay. Or just drowning in mayonnaise because that's always been one of my nightmares. Okay. It's and always been one of your nightmares, he he said. He says it's always, always been one of his... It's always been one of his nightmares to drown in mayonnaise. Yeah, I think we can keep moving.
00:09:55
Speaker
i And then we said, you said, we can make this X-Men related. Pick an X-Man to drown with you and why, and they can't save you. And I said...
00:10:08
Speaker
Or you drown in one of the drinks and you pick an X-Man to drown in the other. Okay. So he is. dress So, okay. Pete yeah is drowning in. All right.
00:10:22
Speaker
Pete is our attitude is. Pete is drowning in the pilk and next to him. Iceman is drowning in mayonnaise. Correct. Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker
Okay. All right. And he says he'd like to see what happens to mega when it freezes. There's an easy way to find out. You can fucking that. Dude. It's so easy. That is the easiest dream to realize.
00:10:48
Speaker
But thank you to Pete, the first one to respond to this survey. Very enthusiastic.
Fan Engagement & Challenges
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. And then and we have another classic here, Matt, in the form of email Michael. Oh, email Michael. Hey.
00:11:02
Speaker
Responding to the same episode, he says, hey, Pat, tell Matt that my own answer to the question of whether or not pilk hurdles is pretty clear in my video. Believe it. Yeah. I cannot believe we're still talking about pilk.
00:11:14
Speaker
It does, but not a lot, and it doesn't affect the taste. Just stir it well and drink it fast. It did upset my stomach, but that's probably because I'm a little lactose intolerant. That's why it had been several years since the last time I drank milk and one of several reasons why I hope to never drink pilk again.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, don't poison yourself for this podcast. Yeah, folks. We ask a lot of of you as listeners, and I understand that if any of it is causing physical pain for you, consider yourself exempt. Thank you, email Michael, for pointing out that we need to make this clear. Do you ever notice?
00:11:54
Speaker
That our listeners will poison themselves with Pepsi and milk.
00:12:06
Speaker
We can tell them to do this crazy thing and they'll do it. And yet... 90% of them will not leave a fucking review on the dudes.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah, folks, next time we ask you to do something that might cause you harm, if we're ever like, hey Pat's email corner challenge, mix chlorine and bleach together. Instead, go leave us a review or share on social media. Go rate us. Tell a friend.
00:12:44
Speaker
That is the thing would always rather you do.
00:12:52
Speaker
Oh, fuck. All right Continuing on. i would rather drown drown in pilk than mayonnaise because I'm dead either way. And mayonnaise smells way worse. It would probably take longer to drown me because it's thicker.
00:13:05
Speaker
Oh my God. Good point. Again, I thought, I thought Pilk might compete with mayonnaise, but mayonnaise is far away. If I had drowned next to an X man who can't save me, then it depends on one thing. Basically. and I understand that I'm absolutely going to die in the circumstance, but can the X man save themselves?
00:13:25
Speaker
Oh, okay. So you're concerned. Okay. With the X man's life. You don't want to, you don't want to drag someone else down with you. Yes, the X-Men can be
Hypothetical Scenarios with X-Men
00:13:34
Speaker
x ten the xlan could just stand up. it's there out tough than you And if they want to, they can just stand up and walk away. If they drown, it's because they choose to.
00:13:47
Speaker
Keep these questions coming in, though, folks, so we can really nail down our our would you rather here. um He does say, if so. If the X-Men can save themselves, Nightcrawler. He can, even as a layperson, lead the commendation of the dying and teleport away before I die. He kid these still gets the blessing.
00:14:10
Speaker
If not, Wolverine, because eventually the Pilk will be drained or otherwise removed and Wolverine will be fine. And I think he could maybe offer some perspective or wisdom based on his long life and many experiences with death that might help me feel less terrified as Pilk fills my lungs. Listen, bub.
00:14:26
Speaker
I see. I know you're dying here. You know you're dying. I know you're dying. You're not getting out of this pilk situation alive. but wait But how many of us have ever really lived?
00:14:40
Speaker
I love, I sincerely love the bit here that that the X-Man he chooses is just the one that can make him feel most comfortable as he's dying. LAUGHTER
00:14:53
Speaker
On a scale of one to ten, if oh my god most people also asked folks to rate their experience from one to ten. On a scale of one to ten, my own happiness will be a one either way because I do not want to die by drowning. Nothing changes that. And if Nightcrawler's prayers work and go to Christian heaven, then I'd be happy about that. But still a one out of ten for the drowning part.
00:15:14
Speaker
That is a really fair so really really fair assessment. true i And then finally, he says, here is my drawing of a toilet. I drew it in about five seconds because I do not like being asked to draw things.
00:15:30
Speaker
We asked folks to draw toilet. We asked people to draw a toilet? Yes. Why? Because it's hard to
00:15:42
Speaker
It is clearly a quick but honestly impressive drawing of a toilet. It's a pretty good toilet. All right, let's keep moving. We have got a couple more emails to cover here. Vio responds to our would you rather question. Dear Pat, tell Matt I would rather drown in pilk as I would imagine a large enough volume would at least be separated somewhat. So I might, if I am lucky, be able to drown in the Pepsi.
00:16:06
Speaker
Okay. Alright, so assuming that it separates, you could choose rather than dying in the curdles. You could stick your head up to die in the curdles, the curdled milk, or you could pull your head down to die in the Pepsi. and you'd be yeah Exactly. If you're going to drown in something, it might as well be soda.
00:16:29
Speaker
And then next to you, Colossus just stands up and wonders why you're drowning.
00:16:37
Speaker
I tried to think about which X-Men I would put in the mayo, but to be perfectly honest with you guys, I stopped my brain from answering DC's Resurrection Man, as his power is to resurrect with the power of what killed him, and I would like to see how he has manned his
00:16:56
Speaker
hands. Perfect. Perfect response. If I had to choose an X-Man at gunpoint, maybe Quentin Quire or something. yes Resurrection Man is perfect. Thank you, Vio.
00:17:07
Speaker
i You know, now I have to read Resurrection Man because what is the power of gun?
Mutant or Not Quiz & Community Welcome
00:17:14
Speaker
Like, oh, I got shot in the head and now my head shoots bullets.
00:17:20
Speaker
Like I can shoot bullets out of my pew pew. Pew pew.
00:17:26
Speaker
And then finally, Matt, we have a new emailer today. David, our listener, David. Hey, David. Says, hi, Pat. Tell Matt my name is David. I found the show right after episode 52 released and I've been listening pretty nonstop. I just passed the debate about ice in milk.
00:17:45
Speaker
Now, boy, David, if you are just getting to ice and milk, you have journey ahead of you.
00:17:53
Speaker
I was going to wait and email until I caught up, but had to weigh in after that. Yeah. People, this is what, this is what our podcast is for, for people, right? Like, it is just about milk and milk-related subjects.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah. And they kind of like the X-Men. I think it's about arguing with us, Matt. Oh my God. Arguing with and correcting us, which means we've cultivated the right type of community. Yeah, that's true.
00:18:27
Speaker
Last night on the TTRPG play live stream that I'm part of, he plugs his Twitch channel shamelessly here. I quickly asked ice and milk. Yes or no. There was a unanimous agreement that ice and milk is acceptable, even if it isn't preferred.
00:18:46
Speaker
However, ice and chocolate milk is just not okay for any reason. I think we hard agree on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also realized I missed out on the street tram and flyers, but we have talked about mutant menace on our Tuesday live stream for the past two or three Tuesdays. Thank you so much, David.
00:19:05
Speaker
Streamer David. He gives us some compliments here. It's only his first email. We don't need a nickname just yet. What about live Dave? We'll think about it, but he does he he does prefer David, it looks like.
00:19:17
Speaker
Live David. Live David. Live David isn't as good as Live David. ah Live it. But the the one other thing he provides us here, right here after the first...
00:19:29
Speaker
recap episode i made a quick slideshow game to use with my patrons of my stream called mutant or not and he provides it to us to play said feel free to use or share it he also mentioned that he joined the discord so david i would recommend putting this in this is a really fun little quiz yeah this is really cool aced but i think the casual reader might uh might find a little challenging it's very fun So thank you, David. Please keep writing in so we can give you a diminutive nickname. i think it's going to be.
00:20:02
Speaker
ah Live Dave is good, but he prefers David. So that's that's harder. So, yeah, where we go go back to the drawing board on this one. Yeah, yeah. We'll get there, though. Don't worry. We're pretty good at this by now.
00:20:27
Speaker
All right. All right. And that's the end of
Hosts' Weekly X-Men Reflections
00:20:31
Speaker
Pat's email corner. Matt, I gotta ask, as always, have you done anything X-Men related this week?
00:20:40
Speaker
Um...
00:20:43
Speaker
Nah. Pat, have you done anything? That's allowed. You're allowed to say that. X-Men related this week. Not against the rules. i You know what, Matt? I have not stopped thinking about that damn scrambled egg monster.
00:21:02
Speaker
I think so. i've I, with some distance between between having read it now, that might be the funniest thing I've ever seen in comics, like the intentionally funny thing I've ever seen in comics. Right, right. It's really, and you know me, we've done comedy together for more than a decade. I think egg is the funniest food or prop or whatever you want to refer to it as. And I love eggs. One of my favorite foods. I'm not, this comes from a place of reverence, but you can call him, ah you can call him,
00:21:39
Speaker
Edward Egg. Ah, no. Don't call him that. I'm not sure which direction, where you were even going with i was just, I was trying to think of like a nickname that had to do with Egg. You can call him Eddie Eggs. You can call him Egg.
00:21:53
Speaker
Eddie Eggs. Eggs. Eggsy. Eggsy. Eggsy. You can call him Eggsy. you can No, none of this. None of this. Good thing we don't have to give anybody a nickname today. Ha ha ha. So, yeah, I'm still I'm still stuck on Oh, you should have said he is the Eggman.
00:22:14
Speaker
No, I wouldn't have liked that. Yeah, that's true. I still don't. I still don't like it. i think You've said it. All right, Patrick. Will you read me some X-Men comics?
00:22:26
Speaker
I will, Matt. I'm going to start. I'll say where we left off with Uncanny X-Men number 185 Public Enemy.
00:22:37
Speaker
I love that band Chris Claremont writer, John Romita, Jr. and Dan green artists, Tom or Zkowski letter or Gwyneth ween colorist and no Senti editor in Jim shameless editor in chief.
00:22:53
Speaker
Release date, June 5th, 1984 cover date, September, 1984. It's good to, be it's good to have the whole gang back together. You know, they're all here. Henry Peter Gyrich stands in front of an assembly of dorks at the Pentagon, giving a presentation on how dangerous a mutant rogue is. His solution?
00:23:10
Speaker
a gun invented by Forge that neutralizes mutant powers. Raven Darkholm bursts into the meeting protesting the operation, but Val Cooper pulls her off. This has presidential approval.
00:23:22
Speaker
It's as good as done. Fuck. When he's doing this, he suggests that the X-Men and the Brotherhood may have formed an alliance and are teaming up. I got actually mad when he said that. Because of like... They're not friends. They're actually enemies and they've been since day one.
00:23:45
Speaker
Raven walks back to her private quarters where she shifts back to her mystique forms. Her private quarters, of course, being a top secret room in the Pentagon.
00:23:56
Speaker
She's got her own. ah Valerie, if I'm going to be your assistant, I need a secret room in the sub-basin that me and all my friends can have access to, but no one else is ever allowed to go into. No one else. It's the new... All right, Raven, deal. You're such a good assistant.
00:24:16
Speaker
will grant this to you. Her partner Irene, aka Destiny, is waiting for her to discuss the dangers that Rogue in. This is, thisy if you haven't figured it out, the new headquarters of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The U.S. Pentagon. The U.S. Pentagon, yeah.
00:24:34
Speaker
Mystique wonders if it would be better for Rogue to lose her powers and come home, but is conflicted about it. Destiny can't quite see the future because of fabric of time or something or other. You don't fucking say.
00:24:48
Speaker
So she tells Mystique that she must follow her heart. Why did they invent a character that could see the future only to every single story be like, oh, everything's, it's unclear. There are mysterious forces at work. I don't know why I can't see this, this future, this, this time. you never can.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's I mean, i can't think of a way to write write myself out of that either. ah So I don't necessarily blame him, but. Why inventor?
00:25:21
Speaker
yeah that's true.
00:25:25
Speaker
ah While the military take off to find Rogue, Raven calls Forge, who is fucking furious that his inventions are being used so recklessly, and he takes off in his own jet.
00:25:36
Speaker
Come on, man. He calls the president. What did you what did you expect, dude? Yeah, that's true. Also, when the yeah when the government's out looking for Rogue. I think it's Val Cooper asks Henry Guy, how are you locator with rogue scanner? And then he says, no, actually we're using the device. The Avengers built in Avengers annual number 10 specifically tracks rogue. Why not just say yes in that situation? yeah why' you go to save So many words
00:26:08
Speaker
You know, Tom Morzakowski was sitting there like, what why? Why? What if I just said, you would anybody notice if I just?
00:26:19
Speaker
Back at Charles x Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters, Storm bursts into a therapy session between Professor X and Rachel Slummers. Everyone's doing this lately. Apparently, Rogue is missing and they take off to Cerebro to locate her, leaving Rachel alone in the office.
00:26:36
Speaker
Flipping through Xavier's phone book, she finds an entry for Scott Summers and dials his number. But when he answers, she can't speak. Rachel breaks down in tears as she hears the voices of her father on the phone and Madeline Pryor, who she assumes is her mother, in the background.
00:26:55
Speaker
do Does this work for you emotionally? Yeah, I think so. Okay. For some reason, Rachel Summers just doesn't work for me emotionally. I don't dislike her as a character or anything, but it's very rare that her stuff works for me emotionally, and I don't know i don't know why that is.
00:27:14
Speaker
I can relate to this. Like, if you've lost a parent, the idea of going back in time to a time that they're still alive and don't even know who you are, but still wanting to just reach out and be like... yeah hi yeah i think i think you're right i don't know i yeah i don't know why it doesn't strike me maybe because i've never lost a parent maybe that it is like literally that simple i mean i haven't either but well then stop lying to the people that's the
00:27:48
Speaker
these mutant menace exclusive folks my my father is still alive We're two guys with alive dads and we won't apologize for it.
00:28:03
Speaker
In a little swimming hole on and the banks of the Mississippi River, Rogue, in an uncharacteristically skimpy bikini, shows off for some boys on a riverboat, diving into the water and sunning on the shore. So, Claremont.
00:28:18
Speaker
Look, Pat, he doesn't do gratuitous nudity. He doesn't have ladies naked for just no reason. He comes up with legitimate character reasons why all of his female characters are naked all the time. Right. Look, Rogue is invulnerable. So, of course, every time she's in a fight, her clothes get all torn off.
00:28:39
Speaker
And she's trying to be free. So, of course, she's in a tiny skimpy bikini showing off for the boys. And Storm is from Africa. So, of course, she's always naked.
00:28:50
Speaker
Why would she want to wear clothes? She wears clothes because she has to. And so, you know, this is character stuff. Pat, stop saying it's gratuitous nudity.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah Rogue's relaxing time is interrupted by Storm. Almost immediately, Rogue pours her heart out about how when she was a kid, she was kissing a boy on this riverbank and accidentally drained him of his memories.
00:29:17
Speaker
About how she ran and ran and she's been running ever since. About how she regrets what she did to Carol Danvers and about how she doesn't know if she's more loyal to the X-Men or Mystique.
00:29:27
Speaker
About how no one will ever fully trust her because her merest touch can destroy a person. To this, Storm slips off a glove and offers her hand. What the fuck?
00:29:40
Speaker
Holy shit, dude. Yeah. Every act of absorption has been through violence and the violation of a person's free will. What if Storm gives herself freely and allows Rogue to see through her eyes? Would that change things?
00:29:57
Speaker
Hesitantly, Rogue takes her hand Whoa.
00:30:14
Speaker
ah just before she's struck in the back by some kind of beam the army is here and they demand her surrender A beam? Pat! beam Not a beam!
00:30:27
Speaker
So, it is from here on out, everything, every gun they have shoots beams, not bullets, which is probably visually more exciting, but yes ah it's always a little strange. It's like watching and Saturday morning cartoons again.
00:30:45
Speaker
I, this is a really powerful, to me, this is a really powerful storm moment. And this is one of those moments where like, and you said it, her offering her hand being like, let's see what happens if,
00:30:59
Speaker
Yeah. You absorb my powers as I'm giving them to you willingly. It's a very Yukio moment. It's very her just saying like, hey this could kill me. They even mentioned it could kill her. This could kill me. But if it does, like at least I died helping a friend. And if it doesn't, this is going to rule. This is going to be very exciting.
00:31:19
Speaker
right right right it's also at the same time her literally extending her hand to a friend in a mental health crisis and saying like hey let's go through this together i'm here here is what i can do to help you if you can take this resource right so it's really just like as a friend Even in her dark era, she's still got it. She's still the old sword. Because I mean, how dark has that dark era really been?
00:31:57
Speaker
It's it just a mohawk. I know, exactly. It's the way that everybody keeps saying that um ah magic is evil. Like, how? In what way? In what way?
00:32:09
Speaker
i okay. So the army is here. Rogue flies off attempting to draw the army from the unconscious storm, but her powers are all fucked up. She's stumbling around, but still able to create a tornado and throw the military vehicles around.
00:32:24
Speaker
She loses control of the storm though, and notices the riverboat boys from earlier struggling in the water. She feels the heroic influence of storms thoughts in her head and flies over the water to try and slow it down, but find she can't.
00:32:37
Speaker
Her storm powers are gone. which also must mean the heroic thoughts were her own. At that moment, Storm herself arrives to help, and the two try to pull the boat ashore. They realize this leaves them open to the military, but they can't let these fishermen drown, so they continue to pull.
00:32:55
Speaker
So there's a there's a confusing thing here where they seem to set up a mechanic where if somebody wait if somebody gains their powers back...
00:33:08
Speaker
Or wakes up from Rogue's touch. Like they regain their consciousness or their powers or maybe both. Yeah. that takes That takes them back from Rogue.
00:33:21
Speaker
Is that how her powers will continue to work? That's not how I understood. Like I thought if she takes Wolverine's healing powers and knocks Wolverine out. Wolverine can, when Wolverine wakes up, he still has his healing powers. But they now they both do.
00:33:37
Speaker
But was I just wrong about that he's always? or His would be weaker just like the rest of him is weaker, right? Yes. You're saying it's not proportional to... Yeah, I didn't think there was like a cosmic link between the powers that she is using and the powers that they have. Like like Havoc and... Like Havoc and the Living Monolith or something. Yeah, sure. No, I i don't think it's like...
00:34:05
Speaker
that And that's not explicitly stated here. It could just be convenient timing. But then, but that's okay. But that's how Rogue says she knows that the heroic thoughts were hers.
00:34:17
Speaker
She was like, oh, I'm still thinking Storm's thoughts. Because she doesn't have powers anymore. So she's like, oh, no, you're right. It is Storm being alive. that Storm's like, was I've been awake for at least a minute. And she's like, oh, then those were my thoughts.
00:34:31
Speaker
God dang it. Bad news for you, Rogue. No, they weren't. ah don't think you know how your powers work. Yeah, exactly. Why are we just assuming Rogue knows how her own powers work? Like, there's no reason for her to actually know that. they're Like, unironically. Like, there's no reason why we should believe that she knows.
00:34:50
Speaker
Well, Gyrich grabs his neutralizer gun and he aims when Forge tackles him from behind. Forge is here. Forge is here. He got here just in the nick of time. The shot goes wild and strikes Storm instead of Rogue.
00:35:08
Speaker
It creates a discharge of energy so strong that the riverboat explodes and both women go tumbling into the water. Forge flooms out to save a drowning storm and pulls her to shore. When Gyrich tries to help him, Forge swats the man's hand away and lectures him on attacking heroes, potentially turning them into enemies.
00:35:28
Speaker
and he says And he says, oh, thank goodness all those ah boat crew were okay. Bullshit, dude. Come on. now they're fine, Matt.
00:35:38
Speaker
We watched it fucking explode. We watched it explode in a giant... That was Jump Shumpy being like, hey, they all lived, right? Nobody can here.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah. ah Also, there is a cliffhanger where the dire wraiths are watching and decide they have to kill Forge. Whatever. Whatever. I don't care.
00:36:00
Speaker
I don't I mean, it's going to like impact the story, I guess, but fucking I don't care. I don't care about Rom Space Knight. don't care about dire wraiths.
00:36:12
Speaker
It's so funny. And we don't even... win Okay, we'll get there. This is part of my final thoughts. What are you thinking here when when Storm loses her powers? I mean, I think you you you know now.
00:36:26
Speaker
So it's maybe not the fairest of questions. But... So what... Imagine, try, um and imagine you are just, you're picking this comic book up. It's 1984.
00:36:42
Speaker
Sure. You're dead, but you're allowed to read a comic book anyway. god God and the angels allow your spirit. No, um you, do you really think Storm's powers are gone?
00:36:57
Speaker
Um, the reason aside from it just being comic books and nothing ever being permanent, the reason that i didn't think so is they said like three or four times through this issue, this is untested. We're not sure what it will do.
00:37:13
Speaker
i in the issue that we come up on, they even say like, not sure if the effects are permanent. Right. We just we we don't know what this weapon actually does aside from it removes powers.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. i think. Well, as we've we our listeners have pointed out before at this time, there was no reason to think that things that happened in comics were never permanent. Right. Like that.
00:37:45
Speaker
That standard hadn't been set yet. That might be our modern knowledge ah peeking through. by But... But...
00:37:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think I would have just assumed I would be like, oh my God, how does she get? I thought I would think this is a how to how are they going to get out of this one? yeah yeah. Sort of situation.
00:38:08
Speaker
But why don't we why don't we keep reading and see what does happen if if Storm's okay? All right. All right, Pat. I want to tell you about Uncanny X-Men number 186. Hell yeah, dude.
00:38:22
Speaker
life death Chris Claremont script Barry Windsor Smith pencils. Remember this guy? Yes. the Last time we saw him was back in X-Men number 53.
00:38:37
Speaker
and his art was terrible. He was not very good. He was going by Barry Smith at the time, right? And we were, yes. And we were not fans. wait And of course we know him from the future.
00:38:51
Speaker
When he'll be doing some very impactful X-Men stuff, right? Yes. So, yeah. So there's this. And then there he does some impactful Wolverine stuff in the future, too. So yeah he's he's like a big...
00:39:08
Speaker
For such an inauspicious start, he ends up having this like massive, massive impact on the world of the X-Men and being like a mega talent also. It's it's just it's such a strange... You would never have expected that from that weird Jack Kirby clone. that was that Was that the Blastar issue, maybe?
00:39:27
Speaker
Was it? Yeah, it was a blast star issue. I remember I remember reading the blast because I remember both things. I remember the last star issue being so bad. Didn't we talk about that as the worst X-Men issue we ever read for like a really long time?
00:39:41
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, i I don't know that we've topped it. i think well as far as like poor quality goes evil green Xavier is up there. Yeah, that's true.
00:39:51
Speaker
ah All right. Terry Austin's the inker. Glynnis Ween and somebody named Sheel. I don't seem think we've seen that person yet. Are the colorist. Tom Orzakowski is the letterer. And Ascenti is the editor. and Jam Slapper is the editor-in-chief. Release date July 10th, 1984. Cover date October 1984.
00:40:15
Speaker
Storm lies in a bedroom. Eyes half open. Emotionless. Enter Forge with soup and herbal tea. And Storm sits up and says, hey, this isn't your soup.
00:40:28
Speaker
That's not your hot broth.
00:40:34
Speaker
oh how did you learn how to make this hot broth?
00:40:39
Speaker
God. No, ah he's he's begging for her to eat something, anything, but her will is resolute for what's clearly not the first time. Forge storms out into his holographic penthouse. He uses the projections to reflect on his guilt. He replays what happened on the last issue on the walls around him. um And when he reaches the part where he rescues Storm from drowning, she interrupts the illusion.
00:41:04
Speaker
That was not a kindness, she says. You should have let me drown.
00:41:10
Speaker
Not she's not feeling good. She's not adapting to this new lack of powers very well. I mean, it was her identity. You know, the opening like the opening splash page is her on a bed. And then the next page, we get three panels slowly zooming in on her. And we see that, like, she's not sleeping in the bed. She's just lying. Eyes half open. Yeah.
00:41:37
Speaker
yeah Kind of waiting to die. um And it's interesting. So like if. If Wolverine loses his powers. He's going to. He's not going to know how to do all the stuff he likes to do. But he's going to be. He's going to be OK.
00:41:57
Speaker
Nightcrawler loses his powers. He's going to be bummed out. But he's not going to be like I've lost who I am. If Colossus loses his powers. He's going to quit the X-Men. Because he's going to be like I'm useless to you all. But he's not going to.
00:42:10
Speaker
He's not quite Colossus first. But whereas Storm, it is her identity that she is one with nature. She's one with the winds and the rain. and yeah Yeah. The two are the same. It's like the – not to trudge too far down this path, but when you talk about like Superman is more Clark Kent than he is Superman. Sure. Superman is his alternate identity, whereas Batman – is more Batman than he is Bruce Wayne. Like Bruce Wayne is the mask that he puts on.
00:42:45
Speaker
Spider-Man is... both Peter Parker and Spider-Man at the same time. And i think that's what we're seeing here. Okay. flight Right. There's no, there's no separation of yeah identity. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:02
Speaker
Right. And yeah because she fully, yeah. I mean, again, like this is how she connects to herself and the world, right? Like, her forms of meditation, right? Or communing with the winds. Yeah, it's, yeah.
00:43:19
Speaker
All right, so back at the mansion, x Xavier is putting everything he has into Cerebro, trying to locate Storm. Despite being able to pinpoint any mutant on Earth, he can't find any sign of Storm at all. Huh.
00:43:34
Speaker
Huh. The X-Men fear the worst, so they finally decide to try and find Rogue. My backup, backup prize. Well, I guess Storm's dead. We might as well try to find Rogue. ah Do we have do They really, this theme continues of them being like, and Rogue.
00:43:58
Speaker
And Rogue is becoming, like, better and better and more a part of this team and more of a hero and more of a cool person. And everyone is still like, ugh. i'll do it Yeah, yeah. um Now, there's also a bit when Forge is reliving the day before, where he says, oh, thank God, those nobody was hurt in that that boat.
00:44:22
Speaker
I'm getting so mad about this. Yes, they're all dead. like My headcanon, use a Tumblr-fied word, my headcanon is that they're all dead. They all died and everyone's lying.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, but that boat blew up. And also, they were all catcalling Rogue immediately before. Right! right That is a classic... ah Guys in the movie die, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:44:52
Speaker
We cut back to Dallas where Storm seems to have opened up to Forge a bit. She reflects on the skill she does still have, cheekily lifting the hologram controls from Forge's pocket.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah. Cheeky. But then a storm starts to roll in and Aurora is reminded of what she's lost. She used to be able to feel the approaching storm, felt the resonation of its power, but now she can only watch.
00:45:18
Speaker
She turns away from the despair, though, and joins Forge for a swim. She's wearing a bathing suit. She sure is. She's, i She mentions that she can't be nude anymore because...
00:45:32
Speaker
Her powers used to, I think it's interesting. Her powers used to condition her body for whatever weather it was in So she never felt warm or cold. She was always just comfortable.
00:45:44
Speaker
Imagine Kitty walking in on the scene and then going like, Storm, you're not nude. How could you? running out cry I don't even know you anymore.
00:45:56
Speaker
You were supposed to be my mom.
00:46:01
Speaker
my nude mom. ah When she steals, when Storm steals Forge's little thing, he goes, my porta console.
00:46:15
Speaker
if you If you're the only person That ever uses this. Can't you come up with a better name for it? Jeff. after After a race, she takes notice of Forge's prosthetic leg and hand poolside.
00:46:35
Speaker
He explains how he lost. not a That's not a revelation to us. No, we we know this. ah But it is interesting to see like, okay, so he explains how he lost his limbs in Vietnam, reaching a low point himself and even trying to kill himself. Maybe he can understand.
00:46:56
Speaker
i I can see it. I can see that, right? Like, there's this moment where Storm is like, I'm like feeling so sorry for stuff. I'm the only one who's ever gone through something like this. And it's true in a sense.
00:47:09
Speaker
But also, many people have gone through similar losses of things they felt. Like, I really strongly identify with my fucking leg, man. Yeah. it's it Honestly, it's a very kiddie pride lesson to learn of like...
00:47:26
Speaker
She is feeling sorry for herself, assuming that her trauma is the worst in the world. And at this point, it might be. it might be. But. But.
00:47:37
Speaker
Other people have undergone terrible things, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. um That have they have felt the same about right like everybody when they have a breakup feels like this is the worst pain that anyone's ever felt and who knows it could be I don't I'm not in your brain.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yeah, maybe it's the worst breakup, but I felt like that when I had a breakup, right? So like these and don't know. So like that shit's relative, right? Like You can say, oh all you lost was a hand and a leg.
00:48:08
Speaker
i lost my entire way of functioning and like my entire being. And it's but it's like Forge Forge never had weather powers. Right. So to him, it's as intense of a loss.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yeah. And he keeps saying that like, okay, so it sounds like you're just like regular people now. Right. Right. It's also a good reminder at this point that Storm knows nothing about nothing about forge right like she's meeting him for the for the first time she doesn't know what his business is why necessarily he rescued her he was just right a person that was there and helped her and seems to be and she yeah technologically skilled
00:48:55
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, I wonder. And like she cares so little about her own life, right? At this moment that she doesn't even care that a stranger just like came and abducted her.
00:49:06
Speaker
She's like, whatever, whatever. Fine. um Okay, so back in Mississippi, Val Cooper updates her colleague Phil on the situation. Guy Rick zapping the wrong mutant has had a lot of consequences that she now has to dig out of.
00:49:23
Speaker
Phil leaves her at the Ramada Inn, but as he gets in his car, he's met by a huge, grotesque, wormy creature with tentacles and claws. It extends its barbed tongue directly into his skull. It's fucking wild.
00:49:36
Speaker
It is. It's so gross. It's, yeah, it's real. Tentacles and claws. Well, no, I'm saying when it sucks his life force out, his face caves in. um It sucks out his life force. It becomes him. He's a wraith now.
00:49:54
Speaker
ah Back in the world. Yeah, we never did. It's so rare. We don't get a last name for Phil. just phil Just Phil. Wait. No, we do. We do. We do. Because I was wondering if it was Phil Coulson. It was.
00:50:08
Speaker
So in the next scene, he goes to see Val Cooper. she She's like frantically knocking at her door. She has to throw on her robe. And she must be like, dude, OK, don't stop trying. Like, are you here to like hit on? Yeah. Yeah. um But somewhere in that scene, she says his last name.
00:50:31
Speaker
Phil Rosen. Oh, he does get a last name. Yes, he gets a last name. Phil Rosen. Damn it. I know. I'm sorry. The guy at the door is... So the guy that was baing banging on her door, it's it's it's Phil.
00:50:45
Speaker
He's brought two wraiths. Phil Rosen. He's brought two wraiths along with him to suck out her life force and become her, too. Oh, no. Before they can tongue her brain. A heroic, no, she won't suck her...
00:50:58
Speaker
okay Rings out. Rogue is here to rescue Val Cooper. What? She punches the Wraith and it goes, Chunt. Chunt? She kicks it. Chunt.
00:51:11
Speaker
The sound of a kicking a Wraith is, Chunt. She beats the shit out of the Wraiths and struggles briefly with becoming one of them when she makes skin-to-skin contact. Xavier makes contact with her at that moment, bringing the X-Men up to speed on the dire situation.
00:51:28
Speaker
Baroque chokes it down and catches up to an escaping Val Cooper, revealing why she came in the first place. She absorbs Val's memories, learning what happened to Storm and who forges. It's time to loop in the X-Men.
00:51:41
Speaker
do So it was the beginning of this issue that Xavier was like, all right, I guess we should try to track down Rogue. It has been hours.
00:51:55
Speaker
and spin hours Yeah, they're not trying very hard. Valerie says mutie. Oh, yeah.
00:52:06
Speaker
Yeah, she's evil, dude. She sucks. Yeah. All right, so back in Dallas, Storm looks over the clothes that Forge has had ah delivered to his place for her. Among them, she finds an elegant gown, trying it on as she wonders what Forge would think of it.
00:52:21
Speaker
She walks out in the dress looking stunning, but being stunned, Forge can only stare in shock. It's like like when you watch an anime, the way that like like there's... ah no one Boys and girls can never just like say stuff to each other. They're always like... ah yeah ah And it like it causes massive problems between them, and yet... It's a very funny exchange, because Forge has sort of been saying the wrong thing at every turn, trying to comfort her. And here or she is, like, showing off in an elegant dress. Yeah. And he's just like...
00:53:02
Speaker
what And she says, ah Forge, you're staring. and he says, well, what did you expect?
00:53:13
Speaker
oh my God. Yeah, he's not really. Not the smoothest dude. No. Also, he's not as hot as he was.
00:53:24
Speaker
The last time we saw him, when we first met forge, he, he was a big man. He was like broad shouldered. He had thighs that were as thick as, as thick as a Labrador.
00:53:40
Speaker
okay ah Like, yeah, the old saying thighs as thick as labrador. Thighs as thick as a labrador. I was trying to think of a realistic size comparison. i And now he's like, he's just normal sized. He's like Cyclops sized baby.
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's got that slim muscular look anyway. Aurora interprets this silence as disapproval and runs back to her room humiliated, chiding herself for trying to impress him like a foolish child.
00:54:17
Speaker
She returns in overalls and nothing underneath, which Ford somehow finds less intimidating. I gotta say.
00:54:29
Speaker
this outfit is intimidating.
00:54:34
Speaker
Intimidating.
00:54:38
Speaker
They have a conversation awkward at first, but it turns friendly, even flirty over some curry. Wait, this isn't your curry. Where'd you learn to make this curry? Stop.
00:54:53
Speaker
overstop Over curry and champagne. Storm just chugs the champagne, by the way. Yeah, yeah. He's like, that's not what you're supposed to do. And she's like, never done it before. It's meant for sipping.
00:55:07
Speaker
um They both open up and talk about their struggles and backgrounds, although Forge is dodgy about his Cheyenne heritage. Aurora even shares the experience of watching her parents die when missiles leveled her home, a story that she never shared with anyone.
00:55:25
Speaker
After this, she fully opens up to him about her loss of power, how implicitly tied to her oneness with nature was to her emotional state, even as she veered into her more rebellious phase. What does this mean now? What's left of her identity?
00:55:39
Speaker
Forge comforts her. And the two kiss.
00:55:44
Speaker
Big, big smooch. Forge takes this moment to offer to examine and try to fix her, which he doesn't exactly find romantic. Yeah. Once again, it's him just saying the exact wrong thing, which is like, I could fix you. you Right. After you kiss for the first time.
00:56:06
Speaker
you draw You draw back your face. You look her in the eyes. You have you both have that little glow yeah yeah about you. And then you say, I could fix you. It's very Reed Richards, think.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yes. Right? Like, just focused on solutions rather than... ah Before the action can pick back up, the phone rings.
00:56:32
Speaker
Forge opts to take the call downstairs, and Aurora finally remembers she hasn't told anyone she's safe, but when she picks up the phone to call the professor, Forge is still on the line. Pat, can you explain to our younger listeners? Yeah, so...
00:56:46
Speaker
If you don't know, landline phones were usually connected to a single line, right? yeah Unless you were pretty techno tech savvy, ah you could actually in the 80s pretty easily set up a second line that...
00:57:02
Speaker
If you're taking secure phone calls, no one else can accidentally listen in on. But like like if you take calls from the the president and the Pentagon and stuff, like for instance. OK. But assuming we're not dealing with a technologically advanced man here. yeah as Somebody who doesn't really know tech that well.
00:57:19
Speaker
You might have multiple phones connected to the same line. Right. And that means that if the. wine is busy on one of those phones and you pick up another one of those phones, you're going to hear that conversation.
00:57:34
Speaker
If you go back and watch some sitcoms from the eighties and nineties, you might hear, you might see people like spying on phone conversations taking place in their homes right this way. Like they go up to another phone and they very, very quietly pick it up and listen in on the conversation. Yeah. You hold down the little button the little receiver button, the button that that that when it's down, when it's pressed in, the phone is off.
00:58:01
Speaker
Yeah. Like the line's not connected. And when you release the button. Very slowly. Yes. Then they can't hear you pick it up. Yeah. You can silently connect to the phone call.
00:58:14
Speaker
Unless the phone that you're picking up is of worse quality than the one they are on. And then they will hear like the chalking of static across the line. And they'll immediately know. And they'll be like, Matt. And you'll be like, and I'll hang up.
00:58:30
Speaker
God, how fucking old are we? She hears. ah
00:58:37
Speaker
she hears On this line, the voice of Henry Peter Gyrick on the other end, explaining that everything has gone to shit. They found Val Cooper catatonic, clearly the work of Rogue. And with Storm having been the victim, the X-Men are likely to take action. He wants her moved to a federal facility under his watch.
00:58:56
Speaker
But Forge explains that she trusts him. And as the designer of the weapon that removed her powers, he's best equipped to care for her.
00:59:06
Speaker
Imagine.
00:59:09
Speaker
So fucked up. Just like, again, she yeah she doesn't know anything about this man except that he has sort of nursed her back to mental health and she's revealed her her biggest secrets to him.
00:59:28
Speaker
And now he's saying shit like, like, he's like, I can, i let me examine you closer. And she must be, suddenly that throws that into...
00:59:40
Speaker
Suspicion like oh am I a whole new perspective was this whole thing just like are you even when he says she trusts me we know because we've been in his head a little bit that he's being sincere yeah about it to her it sounds like oh I've I've fooled her into trusting me exactly yeah yeah yeah So shocked, she can't help but shout as she starts running for an exit, but Forge is a step ahead of her. She's in a maze of holograms within a five-story penthouse. In desperation, she calls out to her goddess for help and a...
01:00:15
Speaker
Bolt of lightning from so the storm outside strikes the building directly. Prayer works. Yeah. How did you interpret this? We always say that. Prayer works. Prayer works. How did you interpret this? Like, it was just by chance? Or do you think she has, like, there's powers still buried inside her that still work? A third thing, actually. I thought she really, like...
01:00:42
Speaker
yeah I thought this was her pact with her god, her goddess oh i coming to life here. That she was like, look, I served you when I had my powers.
01:00:54
Speaker
It's the ah all I'm asking in return for all those years of service and the continued years that I will serve you however I can moving forward.
01:01:04
Speaker
ah Please just... Help me find a way out of here. Interesting. So i I interpreted this as.
01:01:16
Speaker
It's not storms, not powerless, real hard. She can summon her powers. Very realistic, Matt. yeah Pretty sure it was God.
01:01:27
Speaker
Storm. She's not powerless forever is how I interpreted this. There's something, there's still a fragment of power deep inside of her. um i I think I interpreted this as we Storm will get her powers back one day, but it's going to be like a journey.
01:01:46
Speaker
It's almost that life or death reaction that a lot of people have as their first experience with their mutant power. Right, right, right, exactly. like Like it severed the links in her brain between...
01:02:02
Speaker
Like whatever muscle she exercises to like she, you know, tenses to make yeah lightning happen and the the conscious thought of doing it. And so like both exist still. They just don't connect. Anyway, the holograms disappear and rain starts pouring in from that the hole that the lightning made as Forge and Aurora stand and face each other.
01:02:24
Speaker
Forge begs for understanding his weapon wasn't meant to be used in this way, not without his say so. But he should have known this kind of use was inevitable, she counters. And she's fucking right.
01:02:36
Speaker
You don't make a power taker gun without thinking that, and then give it to the fucking government. The government. Without thinking the government is going to use it to take a power.
01:02:51
Speaker
He reveals to her that he's a mutant too. His technical mind makes him uniquely qualified to help fix her, but she assumes that's a lie. And with what she knows now, she explains, she could only consider staying here imprisonment.
01:03:06
Speaker
When she he reaches out to her, she cold cocks him. Very satisfying punch. And walks off, berating her. ah Berating him on her way out the door. She vows that without his help, she will one day fly again.
01:03:21
Speaker
And i think in this moment, what she means is, because she says, me my feet may never leave the ground, but i someday I shall fly again. So she means i i still have my humanity.
01:03:35
Speaker
i have I have lost this thing, and you've helped me find that I am still – without this power, I'm still Storm. I still have the beliefs that I have. I still have the personality I have. I still have the integrity that I have. And you know what I've just seen in you, you pathetic little man, is that you have none of that.
01:03:54
Speaker
You will never fly because you don't even know yourself. Right? Yes. Yeah, eviscerates him. yeah And it really does help her feel better about herself.
01:04:06
Speaker
So i you can tell there's a lot of thematic parallels here. First, um both of these two people have been through something traumatic and they are both looking for like solace in each other. um Forge seems to think that something that happened to him that took his leg way back in the day We get just a glimpse of that when when she. Vietnam. it's Yes. something Something happened in Vietnam.
01:04:35
Speaker
And we get. he He seems to think that if he can make up for this mistake. By storm loving him.
01:04:46
Speaker
Maybe that makes up for whatever's in his past. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And it can make him whole again. And Storm, who feels, again, like she just lost who she is, also feels like maybe the love of this guy, this man, can fill in that hole.
01:05:05
Speaker
um And both of them have it sort of violently ripped from them as the the truth kind of comes out. Yeah, it's, it is we Forge's big thing here is, yeah like, the the message that Chris Claremont is hitting us in the head with here is that Forge doesn't want to do the work, right? He, uh,
01:05:28
Speaker
He just wants to do his job and he doesn't, he's not concerned when I say the work, he doesn't want to do the work of the mutant movement.
01:05:40
Speaker
Okay. Right. Supportive of it, but that's not going to stop him from, making enough money to live in a five story penthouse by selling anti-mutant weapons to the government.
01:05:51
Speaker
Right. Interesting. And but that is the opposite of storm storm storm even says like, Hey, what I see in you is a version of myself. If I had gone down a different path, meaning if I just didn't give a shit about people, then yeah, maybe you and I would be a little more alike.
01:06:15
Speaker
Right. And yeah, so she's saying like, i yeah, like I guess mutant powers aren't what does it, man. Just having mutant powers isn't enough to make you kind of like.
01:06:29
Speaker
Doesn't make you heroic innately. Right. You still need to. And by so by by seeing a person who still has their powers. Right. be something that she doesn't want to be it helps her define what she does want to be yeah without without them like oh powers didn't make me me it was this other thing this must have also been rightfully devastating to forge here right where his sort of last grasp at keeping her around is to say i'm a mutant like
01:07:08
Speaker
My brain is what makes me a mutant, which is also why I'm the only person that can save you here. And she looks at him and says another lie.
01:07:19
Speaker
That had to cut him to the core a little bit. Right. He's okay. So if, yeah, he's, and if he's never identified with mutant kind in this way.
01:07:32
Speaker
And he's finally using that to try and connect with this woman who he's fallen in love with, who is slipping away from him. And it's not enough.
01:07:43
Speaker
He's rejected by that community, not because of their exclusionary nature, but because he fucked up. Well, there's that, but also she straight up doesn't believe him here. Like she has no reason to say, oh yeah, youre a mut you're on my side. Like it seems like he is just desperately saying anything he can to convince her to continue voluntarily being imprisoned.
01:08:13
Speaker
Right. but Well, that's fucking, that's life death. I wonder how that' that's life, death. That's life, death. That's they for we've you didn't put this in your recap, but um Ford shrugs at the camera at the end of the issue and says, that's life, death. And that's why it's called that.
01:08:35
Speaker
That's that's just life, death. Sometimes life, life death is just like that. Life, death comes at you fast and you got to be ready for it.
01:08:47
Speaker
ah I wonder if they'll resolve any of this, Matt. Nah, probably not ever. ah Let's find out in uncanny X-Men number one, eight, seven. All right. If you say so. For homicide.
01:09:01
Speaker
that true? Wraith kill. do you know that? needs One, eight, seven on a motherfucking cop. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. How do I know that? From music.
01:09:12
Speaker
Okay.
01:09:17
Speaker
Chris Claremont, writer, John Romita Jr., and Dan Green, artists, Tom Orzakowski, letterer, Glynis Ween, colorist, and Nocenti, editor, and Jim Shammer, editor-in-chief.
01:09:29
Speaker
Release date August 1984. Cover date November 1984. cover date november ninety eightyour Storm storms out into the storm, away from Eagle Plaza, where she hears an alarm go off behind her.
01:09:41
Speaker
She can't see through the rain, but the dire wraiths have penetrated the building's security. She decides to keep walking when one sneaks up on her and into attacks. She manages to fight it off and flees back into the building, the wraith hot on her heels until its head suddenly explodes.
01:09:59
Speaker
Naze is there. Rifle in hand. I do remember him. guy he He's the guy who for like a half a page was like, you're turning your back on your people, Forge.
01:10:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Clearly some sort of important man. Use your magic powers again. Forge is like, no, I won't. Not also cool as hell for him to show up with a rifle. I love just ah I love that i among all these superpowered folks, we also would just have one man running around with a gun. really old man. Yeah.
01:10:41
Speaker
one really old man yeah Naze is a Cheyenne shaman who saw in a dream that Forge was in danger and came to help as he still believes Forge is the last hope of his people.
01:10:56
Speaker
When they can't raise him on the phone and they discover the elevators aren't working, they decide to climb the elevator shafts to get to him. This is some good John Romita Jr. art and yeah some responsible Chris Claremont storytelling where...
01:11:13
Speaker
they're They're having a dialogue about... Like, they're trying to figure out the wraiths. They're trying to figure out how both of them know Forge. And... Aurora picks up the phone.
01:11:24
Speaker
Doesn't say anything about it. Right? And then... they And then she go they go to the elevator and they press a button. They don't say anything about the elevator not working. They just open the hatch at the top and start climbing through. Yeah, right yeah. And it's like, fucking Claremont, why don't you do this? i mean, at the same time, they're being way overly wordy.
01:11:45
Speaker
And they go through this sequence of Wolverine teaching Storm how to shoot a gun. Yeah, yeah. Don't think they're not talkative. Why that Why? Why? have that scene wife i to To literally set up a Chekhov's gun here to say, don't forget, Storm has a gun that she might fire exactly once. She could just say.
01:12:11
Speaker
she's just yeah all she has to do is pick up the gun. We don't need to know that she has some gun training, too. Like, this is so weird. Anyway. ah Also, it's from Wolverine, which is. believable but at the same time is he the most gun likely character that we have i know i know um well anyway he's there's it's cool that he does some of these things without dialogue and without captions yes yeah yeah but he balances it out with extra dialogue
01:12:50
Speaker
When they enter the elevator shaft, a wraith is waiting for them. It attacks Storm and Naze blasts it to hell. and Again, very cool. Another one appears from the floor above them, uses its magic. yeah i too yeah I guess they have magic.
01:13:07
Speaker
to cut an elevator cable and wrap it around Storm's leg, yanking her up into the air. She frees herself just before the cable smashes her into the ceiling. Naze reaches the top floor of the elevator and leaps out into the darkness.
01:13:21
Speaker
Sensing the diorates hiding around him, he fires wildly into the dark. Meanwhile, Storm emerges on one of the plaza's rooftops only to find a blizzard outside.
01:13:34
Speaker
This shouldn't happen in Texas during whatever season this is ah She's immediately grabbed by the diorates' spells, but it turns out they can't hold them for very long in the freezing cold, so another one runs out to attack her.
01:13:50
Speaker
She whacks it with a pipe and instinctively tries to jump off the roof and fly away. But thank God she's saved by an updraft. Another updraft! Number four?
01:14:04
Speaker
Sure. and And makes her way back inside the building. Somehow, suddenly, her mind is merged with Forge, Naze, and a wraith, and she collapses in pain.
01:14:16
Speaker
i very little idea how this happens. And I, I don't know. Things get a little murky from here. ah but she collapses in pain. So does forge actually up in his airy.
01:14:31
Speaker
The wraiths take advantage and close in, but his automatic weapon systems blast them all. Next thing he knows, Storm is standing there in front of him. He scans her to find that she's human, and she asks him what the fuck just happened to their brains, but he says he doesn't know.
01:14:49
Speaker
She believes he's lying, but they're interrupted as they have to shoot a bunch more diorites. One pulls a trick posing as her and trying to get forged to shoot it, but he uses his magic powers for a second to shoot the correct Aurora.
01:15:03
Speaker
We also learn in that moment that he truly doesn't know what happened with that weird mind link. He truly doesn't know. He wasn't lying. He does not. He does not know. He knows more than he's let on, he...
01:15:15
Speaker
he It's like the fact that Naze is still alive makes him go, oh, then I don't know what that mind link is. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which I don't know why that's the tip off for him. But just so you know what the characters understand. Exactly. He's like, we were caught in a soul link. If nothing happened to Naze, then what triggered?
01:15:39
Speaker
Then... Right at that moment. The X-Men show up. yay Rogue and Colossus start kicking alien ass while Naze sneaks off to do something in the top of Forge's tower. He's just like in a ring and he's like, ha, I'm here. Like, okay. Yeah, yeah. And and he's, oh, wow, that's such a holy place, apparently. Yeah. Also rogue the top floor of the penthouse is a sacred sanctuary. Yeah. Well, it, yeah. Well, I, we will learn more about this, but anyway, yeah um
01:16:15
Speaker
Rogue says, burst in saying, ah surprise, suckers. Or gangway, suckers. didn't Oh, yeah. Did Claremont just learn the word suckers? Everybody's saying it It's within, like, three months that he has, like... He uses the word suckers at least four times.
01:16:32
Speaker
Maybe five. He was everywhere in Kitty, Pride, and Wolverine. Everyone was saying it Right, and now Rogue said It's big Japan. Two issues in a row. Like, everyone's saying suckers. I think some... Like... his like niece or something said suckers. And he's like, Oh, suckers. Okay.
01:16:48
Speaker
I like that. I'll use it.
01:16:53
Speaker
Forge uses his image projectors to trick the rates into thinking that Rom and his girlfriend star shine are here and uses the distraction to blast the hell out of home. Okay.
01:17:05
Speaker
But despite beating the last of the wraiths, another threat emerges as some tear in reality opens and weird shadow things grab all four mutants. Oh no! To be continued. Do you think...
01:17:21
Speaker
It was awkward for Rogue when Rom appeared with his girlfriend in the room. Because there was so much sexual tension between them the last time they met. I forgot about that.
01:17:39
Speaker
She doesn't even react to it. like that That issue of her in Rom is such a massive ah turning point for her as a character.
01:17:51
Speaker
It is. And also they're in love with each other in in that. Like they part ways being like, I've never felt about another being this way. She can touch him.
01:18:02
Speaker
She can touch him without hurting him. So weird. That's so weird. That's so weird. and That's part of her story. A couple of things. Naze at one point comments on how he would love to be with storm how she's beautiful and a goddess oh yes and it's like yeah yeah okay another dude wishing they could bone over ororo this is now we have dr doom dracula forge all of them okay professor x nazai uh who did they yeah did peter corbeau say something like that once
01:18:42
Speaker
Maybe. I know they teamed up with someone recently and one of the guys was flirting with her. And she was kind of like very coyly like, oh, good luck, pal.
01:18:56
Speaker
Right. there It's just. it I don't remember what the the context. Claremont is just so horny for her. And he puts it in every dude's mouth. Yeah, yeah. um Well, it's better her than the teenagers. When she's in the elevator, ah she has Yukio thoughts.
01:19:14
Speaker
When her leg gets wrapped up in the cable and it like pulls her up, she's like, oh, this is fun. i might die, but I probably won't and I'm having fun.
01:19:25
Speaker
Well, it really now she has the same powers that Yukio does, right? Which which is nothing. None. She actually might die from this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very cool.
01:19:36
Speaker
i love this. Even powerless. I love this storm era. All right, Pat, do you want me to tell you about... Uncanny X-Men number 188.
01:19:48
Speaker
Desperately. It's called Legacy of the Lost. And it's by Chris Claremont who writes it. And John Romita Jr. and Dan Green who arts it. Yes. Yes. Glynnis Ween colors at tom orzakowski letters in innocent editors is either deserves it.
01:20:03
Speaker
jeff che editor-in-chief sit released date september eleventh nineteen eighty four Cover date, never forget, cover date, December 1984. Not our
01:20:19
Speaker
first September 11th reference, or not our only September 11th reference in this episode. Or, man, it just keeps coming up somehow. It came up last episode, too. Rope, Colossus, Aurora, and Forge try to fight against the shadow beings grasping him, but there's no physical form to fight.
01:20:37
Speaker
Thinking fast, Aurora shoots off Forge's prosthetic leg, freeing him to hop to safety, recognizing the beings as mystical. she frantnticically He frantically starts calling for Naze's help. But Naze is in Forge's top floor sanctuary, performing a ritual to summon a great spirit, offering it the world and everyone on it in exchange for his help.
01:20:56
Speaker
But his wards start to break down as a spirit appears to him, mocking him. You ask for what I do not give and offer that which I already possess, it tells him before, revealing that while he's fought Naze's form before, his soul appears alien. He's is a dire wraith.
01:21:15
Speaker
this is our This is our only ah moment to notice this because yeah even that is just... You can kind of tell it in John Romita's art as Naze dies.
01:21:25
Speaker
um And so... No one addresses it ever again. So what we're to understand here is that Naze... isn't actually Naseh. This is a dire wraith that became Naseh and is trying to use his mystic knowledge to summon a great spirit
Soul Link Mystery & Naze's Death
01:21:44
Speaker
to Earth. Because wraiths also have mystic knowledge. So I guess it's like a combination. and last issue, when Forge was like...
01:21:54
Speaker
Oh, I don't know how that soul link happened. Naze is still alive. I guess now we know how the soul link happened, even if we don't know what the fuck it is. Yeah. I also don't know why Naze being dead would have made any difference, but I don't.
01:22:07
Speaker
yeah yeah Because all we know is that there's a thing called a soul link and usually it only happens when a guy dies. Yeah. And I get never addressed again, so don't don't worry about any of this.
01:22:22
Speaker
Regardless, the great spirit takes the soul. I'm sure this will be important at some point, says Patrick. Yeah, it seems it seems like whatever happened here... Yes....will have some impact down the line.
01:22:35
Speaker
There's a great spirit involved now. Correct, but I don't think... But yeah, that doesn't. Not today. Yeah. Not going to be important today. And we don't know pretty much anything about any of the stuff we just talked about. Like what a soul link is. what That nausea was a fucking dire wraith at the time. Like all that's nothing, I think.
01:23:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and Unless I just didn't pay attention on my first read through. But.
Nightcrawler's Rescue Mission
01:23:06
Speaker
ah Across town at the airport, Nightcrawler bamfs his way onto a stranded plane, then grabs flight attendant Amanda Sefton and teleports them up to the Blackbird flying above.
01:23:18
Speaker
ah did we know she was a flight attendant? We did know. We know he did? Okay. Yeah. it's a good It's a good idea. There's a guy holding his nose as they bamf away, too. Yeah.
01:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, and Amanda's like, what the fuck are you doing? I'm working. What? And he's like, yeah no time for this now. They fly. You're a witch, and we need a witch. They fly back to the penthouse, and Amanda Sefton is in the fray. She uses her spells to strike at the shadow beings, releasing the X-Men from their grasp, but it's too late for Rogue. She can't restrain the wraith form she absorbed and fully transforms into one herself.
01:23:58
Speaker
She mereed immediately tries to tongue Colossus's brain and he can't think of a way to stop her without harming her. But just then, from a floating light disc above the fray, Ileana Rasputin leaps down with her Eldritch Blade and slices through Rogue, tearing the Wraithformer from around her and returning her to human form.
01:24:23
Speaker
Oh, it's such a good moment. Colossus is like, what the fuck? Because he knows nothing about Ileana. He doesn't know that Ileana has powers. He doesn't know that Ileana has a soul sword.
01:24:36
Speaker
yeah like yeah he doesn't know she's a mutant, let alone knowing she's also got incredible mystic powers. Yeah, that she's a sorceress with a soul sword. No one even knows what a soul sword is.
01:24:47
Speaker
Also, she is like... I guess I'm revealing this to my brother and she's worried about the way that he'll react like to the news that she's a mutant, which is, yeah.
Ileana's Mystical Powers
01:25:02
Speaker
yeah heartbreaking later have to be like i know he's a mutant but what if he doesn't like mutants later when ah when they talk about it he's got john this is credit to john romina jr colossus has such a look of pride and um and just like amusement on his face like oh man you and became a sorceress holy shit what a world what a time to be alive it's very very cute anyway Across the room, Amanda does her best to restrain the shadow beings, but they're overpowering her. There must be another wraith somewhere augmenting their power.
01:25:40
Speaker
hu Aurora knows where. It's the Wraith she thought she left to die in the cold. Kurt teleports Forge up to the roof and to Kurt's dismay, they kill the damn thing. Problem solved.
01:25:52
Speaker
Poor Kurt. It's a heartbreaking moment where they find the Wraith and the Wraith's like, fuck you. Kill me if you need to, but fuck you.
X-Men vs Shadow Beings
01:26:02
Speaker
had forge like ok And And Kurt's like, well, what are we going to do? And Forge has to say, we're going to kill it, dude. Yeah.
01:26:12
Speaker
We kill these things. He calls them foolish. But it breaks them up inside. I know. In the wreckage of Forge's penthouse, Peter and Ileana... Oh, there's also a fucking cool, cool, cool-ass scene where ah Amanda Sefton is holding back this shadow being, and Ileana is leaping over top of all the X-Men, who like the X-Men are down on the ground. And Ileana is leaping over top with the soul sword both-handed over her. It rules. Yeah. It does, but the very next frame she's being catapulted back. Yeah. It was not a successful attack. In the wreckage of Forge's penthouse, Peter and Ileana talk about the revelation that she has both mutant and mystical powers. Forge finds Naze dead in his temple and wonders why he kept a sanctum here in the first place. And the X-Men leave as Storm tells Forge to make sure he and his government goons don't try to follow or find them.
01:27:07
Speaker
to the Bermuda Triangle, where Elitist Forrester and her first mate, Paolo, remember that guy trying to start a fight with Cyclops? Yes. he was he was ah very nearly in the loser league, but here he is again. he He's not eligible anymore. Lee and Paolo spot a man being attacked by sharks in the middle of the ocean.
01:27:31
Speaker
Okay. She hops from the boat to rescue him, noting that his heavy red and purple chainmail armor is the only thing that prevented the sharks from eating him How fortunate.
Magneto's Ocean Rescue
01:27:45
Speaker
He comes to and the two recognize each other. It's a Magneto. it's just a Magneto. Just a fucking shark swimming past with Magneto in its mouth. So, yes. Couple things. Did we know that he wears chainmail? Chainmail that can float?
01:28:01
Speaker
ah We knew that is, well, I think, okay, we know that his armor is made of metal because that's how he can make sense, pull it off and on. And that's how he can fly.
01:28:16
Speaker
But the dialogue kind of confusing here because it it it seems like maybe they're trying to say like, oh, he's wearing metal. He's going to drown. But at least it saved him from the shark.
01:28:28
Speaker
But yeah okay, sure. Yeah, he would have drowned. I guess it can't really float. the The shark was just keeping his head above water for him. Yeah, yeah. It's a very strong shark.
01:28:39
Speaker
Other thing. Yeah. Last time we saw Magneto, if anyone doesn't remember, was during the Demon Bear Saga, right? When Warlock warlock is flying in from space and crashes through Asteroid M. Yes.
01:28:55
Speaker
So my understanding here is that he fell from orbit and yeah landed square in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle.
01:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, and then a shark ate him. And then a shark ate him. ah But ah yeah, I remember you and Steven in that episode were talking about, you know, like.
01:29:21
Speaker
What the fuck? Yeah, what the fuck? And I was like, it'll come back. I know it seems implausible, but it'll come back. Yeah, I mean... Just plummeted dirt. Asteroid M is destroyed. And, yeah, yeah fucking Magneto's in the drink.
Aurora's Departure & Team Purpose
01:29:37
Speaker
Back at the mansion, Kurt and Aurora share a tender moment as Aurora explains that she'll be leaving the X-Men and figuring out what the next phase of her life is. She seems to be at peace with the decision.
01:29:50
Speaker
Yeah. Kurt asks her as her last act as a leader to attend the team meeting, he's called.
01:30:01
Speaker
Downstairs, the new mutants try to listen in on the meeting from outside the study. and za x Xavier senses and dismisses them, but Rachel stays behind, opting to shield herself from his psychic probes instead. Do you think Claremont intended Rachel Summers to be...
01:30:16
Speaker
In the New Mutants at first. Because she keeps hanging around with New Mutants. And she debuted in New Mutants. Like she popped. She appeared. She came back to the present. first She first appeared there. She also told the story of how she got there.
01:30:30
Speaker
There. Right. and So it seems like they were trying to establish her to New Mutants readers. But then. She immediately got involved with the X-Men. Yeah. And I mean, even here, when she's with the X-Men, she's always with the new mutants at the same time.
01:30:47
Speaker
Right? Yes. It's just that the rest of them get sent away. Right. And I mean, and then in the next issue, she's hanging out with Magma. Spoilers. That's not a spoiler.
01:31:00
Speaker
Spoiler for 10 minutes from now. In the study, Kurt goes off. What is the point of any of the remaining X-Men? They don't seem to have made a difference. The world hates them. What purpose do they even serve? Could the Avengers or the FF, who the world appreciates, just handle the threats they've been tackling?
01:31:18
Speaker
The school is necessary as a haven and a training center for young mutants, but Kurt doesn't see why he should just go why he shouldn't just go live his life for himself. Storm and Banshee have been maimed. Thunderbird and Jean Grey killed...
01:31:31
Speaker
A psychic scream rings out. And the X-Men all cry out in pain. Rachel, just outside the study, can't help herself after hearing that Jean Grey is dead? She bursts in the room, telekinetically raises Kurt to the ceiling and demands he admits he's lying. It can't be true. That's her mother!
01:31:49
Speaker
what When she regains control, she apologizes and explains the fate of the X-Men in her future. She begs Kurt not to quit. The X-Men represented represent a dream for mutant kind. And if anything can prevent her future from coming to pass, it's keeping that dream alive.
01:32:07
Speaker
Storm throws a, with great power comes great responsibility at him. And he relents. Everyone shares a big group hug. With great power must also come great responsibility is the line. Storm has clearly been watching Spider-Man 2001.
01:32:25
Speaker
So. The way that Rachel tries to convince everybody. at least at first, is by, see she's like, you can't give up. In my future, you think you have it bad. In my future, mutants are all hunted and killed and they enslaved me and everything is even worse than it is now. And Kurt's like, you're, uh,
01:32:48
Speaker
You're proving my point. That's my point.
Amulet's Power & Future Conflict
01:32:50
Speaker
Yeah, she's like, in my future, all of the X-Men are dead. And Kurt's like, okay, so I shouldn't be an X-Man. Yeah, this is exactly what he's saying, dude.
01:33:04
Speaker
But she does turn it around. yeah, yeah. All the X-Men get their own little moment to be like, oh, geez, the future sounds shitty.
01:33:15
Speaker
um the end of the issue, we cut to New York City, the fish market, for an epilogue where we where a fish worker named Jaime Rodriguez finds himself strangely drawn to one of the fish in the crate he's unloading.
01:33:32
Speaker
He picks it up, opens it, and finds an amulet on a gold chain. What's more, it's offering him limitless power if he obeys it.
01:33:44
Speaker
Pat, what? Jaime Rodriguez is here. My favorite guy. We're always talking about Jaime Rodriguez. Stop saying it. You're going to hurt your throat if you keep saying it like that. How do you say it?
01:33:58
Speaker
Jaime? How am I saying it? I would say Jaime, but I know the proper pronunciation is Jaime. You're saying Jaime. Well, I'm German.
01:34:18
Speaker
There's a moment here where John Romita Jr. has redraw. Like Chris Claremont has Rachel explained to the X-Men everything that happened. And we all saw already saw Bill Sienkiewicz draw this out in New Mutants.
01:34:36
Speaker
And John Romita Jr. has to redraw it to put it in an X-Men comic. Yeah.
Uncanny X-Men #189 Introduction
01:34:43
Speaker
I like what John Romita Jr. is doing in here. i yeah i appreciate the turn that his work is taking.
01:34:50
Speaker
He does not measure up to. He's no. He shouldn't have Nobody expects him to, but. He's no Billy Sinkevich. Yeah. Seeing them next to each other back to back, it was like, oh, you did. You did not nail this one.
01:35:07
Speaker
Yeah. All right, Matt, should we wrap this episode up with our reading of Uncanny X-Men number 189, Two Girls Out to Have Fun? i guess so.
01:35:20
Speaker
All right. Chris Claremont, writer. John Romita Jr., penciler. Steve Leihola, guest anchor. Tom Orzikowski, letterer, Glynis Ween, colorist, and no senti editor and Jim pimple editor in chief. Steve Lealoha is here. Steve Lealoha is here. We're going to see it. We're going see more of him in new mutants. We're going to get to know him. Yeah.
01:35:42
Speaker
Cool. Release date, October 1984. Cover date January Big year, Matt. pat why I don't know. Amara, Akilah, and Rachel Summers are out for a day on the town, starting with a Statue of Liberty. oh As they look over the city, Rachel thinks back to her days in the future past where she was made into a hound, forced to hunt other mutants for the tyrannical government.
01:36:10
Speaker
Amara notices tears in her eyes, but doesn't know how to get Rachel to open up. So this happens after the events of Days of Future Past, right?
Rachel's Dystopian Past
01:36:23
Speaker
This thing where she is a hound? e No. No, this happens before that? think this happens before that.
01:36:35
Speaker
I'm getting... So i think what they're trying to do, correct me if I'm wrong, but what they're trying to do is say like, hey, even though this isn't necessarily the X-Men that we know's future...
01:36:52
Speaker
Right. It all seeds from the same timeline branching out into different like this. you yeah Almost like it was in a situation where the X-Men would be capable of stopping days of future past in Rachel's timeline.
01:37:09
Speaker
They just prevented it from coming to pass in their own timeline. i Yeah, I think specifically the fact that days of future past happened
01:37:22
Speaker
if i'm Maybe this is what you're saying and I'm not grasping, but the fact that Days of Future Past happened stopped Days of Future Past timeline from occurring. But because it's multiversal,
01:37:38
Speaker
they're still... A universe where so this isn't this isn't necessarily the days of future past timeline. This might be that we know this might be another past. The same another timeline where days of future past comes to pass. The same thing could happen.
01:37:56
Speaker
Right. we We see some um echoes of days of future past like the anti mutant registration bill or whatever. um But right. But this is not the same timeline as Days of Future Past.
Alternate Timelines & Nova Roma
01:38:12
Speaker
Right. So we know that she because Mystique did not kill Robert Kelly. And Rachel still comes from a future where Mystique successfully did kill Senator Kelly.
01:38:25
Speaker
Correct. In Mystique's future, or sorry, in Rachel's future, Mystique killed Senator Kelly. Storm never got a haircut. Right. Right, right, Ileana never went Ileana aged naturally. Yeah.
01:38:38
Speaker
And we'll have to... Maybe we should look back on that. Maybe for like a bonus episode or a puffy faffin or whenever we finally do our... um but When we do our story so far, we we can look at that. Like, why would these things not have happened if Days of Future Past hadn't happened? What happens in Days of Future Past that makes it so that Ileana goes to limbo?
01:39:01
Speaker
You know? Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of... Yeah. All right. Yeah. There's so many branches. that's but That's what I'm trying to get straight here. But you put something in the notes here that is so fucking funny, which is they open this issue on Amara Aquila.
01:39:18
Speaker
And Rachel Summers, the two most confusing characters in this whole thing. this this would be a tough pill to swallow if you're starting your X-Men journey here. All right, let me explain to you. Nova Roma, it's this, ah it's in the middle of the Amazon. There were some Roman people from the time of Julius Caesar who, oh, and then this other girl, she comes from the future, but not our future.
01:39:44
Speaker
comes from a different future. She's also psychic because she's actually the child of people that are from the present. The one of whom is dead. That's another thing. How did...
01:39:56
Speaker
Jean Grey live. yeah why didn't she become the Dark Phoenix in Days of Future Past?
Aurora's Journey & Amulet Influence
01:40:03
Speaker
Or did she? And she just didn't die. It's yeah. this is the it's it's actually the timeline that Chris Claremont wanted them to have. Jean Grey just goes back to normal and they live a normal life.
01:40:16
Speaker
Yeah. Across the river, the X-Men throw a small party for Aurora Monroe as she boards a giant cruise ship to take her across the Atlantic. She's chugging champagne again. She is. Professor X says the exact same thing Forge says, which is...
01:40:35
Speaker
That's meant to be sipped. and She's like, let me have another please. Very good. yeah Aurora's not sure she's making the right decision, but wants to leave before Kitty and Logan return home.
01:40:48
Speaker
Elsewhere on the docks, Jaime Rodriguez catches some dude snooping around his locker where he put that fancy necklace he found. He plans to sell it to buy his kids some school books, but he's growing anxious.
01:41:00
Speaker
The amulet keeps talking to him, asking for his soul. And if he doesn't sell it soon, he fears he'll say yes. It's so bizarre. This seems like it's building to something cool, but just seeing like just a a dock worker.
01:41:17
Speaker
Yeah. Constantly. thinking about his kids and like how he's, what he's going to do with them this weekend. And then turning to this amulet and the amulet being like, sell me your soul. Murder, our murder, murder, murder. murder It's like, shut up.
01:41:37
Speaker
I got a mortgage to pay.
01:41:42
Speaker
Amara and Rachel are still sightseeing touring the Roman bats exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. When Rachel catches a familiar psychic glimpse, She runs outside to see a limo and inside she knows is Selene.
Selene's Confrontation
01:41:57
Speaker
Again. Yeah, it's so well, OK, this is all right. First of all, when they're in the Roma baths exhibit, I'm still so skeptical of the Nova Roma thing.
01:42:09
Speaker
okay so like. First of all, why did it stay the same for 1,000 years? I'm still mad about this. Why? yeah why did your society never evolve? Yeah, yeah. But second of all, she's like, they go in and Amara's like, oh, man, this makes me feel right at home. This is exactly, that it's like I'm back in Nova Roma. But it's like, all right, what are the chances that That the museum got the look of a Roman bath so absolutely correct that somebody from ancient Rome would be like, ah, yes, this is exactly it. And, ah like, imagine, all right, imagine if someone were to perfectly create recreate the structure of, like, a YMCA pool 600 years from now.
01:42:56
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. you are Like, and we go there and they managed to do it. Somehow they managed to get it exactly right. They look at old pictures or and they, they, whatever, but there's still like, we're going to get in there and we're going to be like, Oh, well, you know, anytime I was in a YMCA, like it smelled like chlorine. And that was like the main sensory thing I was experiencing. It was always misty. Also there were, where's the shitty pool equipment.
01:43:21
Speaker
Everything's immaculate here. There were weird posters on the wall. There were, ah there was always water in weird pools on the floor. The floor was always uneven. Also, there were towels and posters and shit that wouldn't have, like, this ancient Rome stuff wouldn't have survived the, you know, archaeologically.
01:43:44
Speaker
so like, yeah there's no way we would walk into that room and go, ah, a YMCA pool. Somebody would have to tell us and be like, oh, okay, yeah. This this is kind of how it looked.
01:43:55
Speaker
But that's what I assume. There's no way you walk into the exhibit at the art museum and say, this is exactly what my house looked like. exactly Yes, absolutely. And I think everybody kind of, I feel i felt like everybody in anthropology and history and you know, I can feel like everybody kind of knows that.
01:44:17
Speaker
Like, this is an approximation. It probably didn't look anything like this in real life. This is just the closest we can get. Yeah. yeah But don't know. Apparently. also Yeah.
01:44:28
Speaker
We also learn here and we might have already known this, but it seems like the inciting incident for Nova Roma was plotting to kill Julius Caesar.
Nova Roma Backstory Curiosity
01:44:39
Speaker
That like. That I think was the turning point. Oh, right. Like Julius Caesar sucks. We don't want to kill him. So we're just going to go off and start our own society where politics just remain the same all the time. And our culture does to everything just stays the same thousand million years. Implying that the murder of Julius Caesar is what brought about societal advancement.
01:45:06
Speaker
ah
01:45:08
Speaker
that's a good point Anyway, the two of them, Amara, of course, recognizing the name Selene, the two of them follow her limo when it pulls up to a fancy mansion and they both sneak in the servants entrance, disguising themselves as very freely stereotypical maids when their boss...
01:45:31
Speaker
Wearing a frilly old timey cravat summons them upstairs. Huh? I wonder where, what this, I wonder who these people are. I wonder what's in this mansion. They, the, the real giveaway is that they have made outfits and they are extremely revealing. They're not only that, but they have tight black chokers as part of the main costume. It's like, okay. All right. This is how far colonial and also extremely sexual.
01:46:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They're 100% Hellfire. Yeah, exactly. Of course, it turns out this is the Hellfire Club, and Selene is the top candidate for their new Black Queen.
Selene's Power Showcase
01:46:12
Speaker
Oh. To demonstrate her power, she grabs Sebastian Shaw with the floor, shatters his chair, and then repairs it again with her control over inorganic matter.
01:46:23
Speaker
Oh, so... She has control over inorganic matter, Patrick. Like wood? Like wood? She has control over wood? The inorganic matter of wood? Oh, yeah.
01:46:37
Speaker
Maybe it was a stone throne. and it was It was painted like wood. It's almost like sitting on real wood.
01:46:48
Speaker
But it's stone. yeah She ignores like 75% of the powers we've seen her use here. It's like, here's my one thing. While Sebastian Shaw wonders what her whole game is, she disappears promising a gift.
01:47:05
Speaker
Okay. And Tessa is there too. Oh, good. She's been here the whole time. Just more or less offering commentary. Yeah. She just basically gives like, she's like, I wonder, she must be up to something, Sebastian.
01:47:21
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. We kind of, we kind of got that. You're good. Think we have your computer brain here to help us. Also, this is the funniest thing to me. And this is what Tessa actually explains. Uh,
01:47:34
Speaker
Selene is like, let me get you a gift to prove that I'm worth worthy of the black, the title of black queen.
Selene's Escape & Tessa's Commentary
01:47:42
Speaker
Right. And appears to disappear in front of their eyes. Right, right. So Sebastian Shaw is like, did she just disappear in front of her eyes? And Tessa says, no, she actually just dazed us. She, she.
01:47:58
Speaker
as some sort of hypno power. She hypnotized us and then just ran away. Ran away. Can you imagine? ah Everybody thinks she's teleporting, but they're really just losing 30 seconds of their life.
01:48:12
Speaker
Well, i always i this is I always think about this with Batman, right? Like, he's clearly... Like, he distracts somebody for a second, and then he, like, runs away or hides behind, like, a little wall or something until the guy leaves. he said like Like, if you had a bird's-eye view on what just happened with Batman when he when ah Commissioner Gordon turned around and Batman was gone, you'd be like, what a fucking dork.
01:48:41
Speaker
He's actually just around the corner going, please don't check back here. Please don't check back here. Just leave, leave, leave, damn it, neman leave
01:48:51
Speaker
I OK. Rachel is walking out of a room where she apparently just served some tea and nearly falls over laughing at the experience when she feels Selene sneaking up on her.
01:49:04
Speaker
ah She slaps her with her serving tray and telekinetically throws her across a room. only to find that it was Amara she attacked. Selene had already cast an illusion, and now the two women are both under her complete control.
01:49:19
Speaker
She presents the chains to Sebastian Shaw, gifting the two mutants to the Hellfire Club.
Chaos in Hellfire Club
01:49:25
Speaker
oh Oh. Soon, Rachel pulls herself out of Selene's influence, but doesn't want to try to control her body until she frees Amara.
01:49:36
Speaker
Using a psychic rapport she built between the two earlier in the day, she visits Amara's mind. a marty Amara immediately attacks, and the two fight until she powers up into her magma form and also breaks free of Selene's mind control. Also, Tessa is there. Yeah.
01:49:57
Speaker
Magma is going nuts, causing a massive earthquake and bringing down the building while Rachel summons Xavier with her telepathy. Selene begins to fight back, grabbing the women with the ground when Nightcrawler ports her out.
01:50:11
Speaker
And then nerve pinches her unconscious. The rest of the X-Men follow him. But Sebastian Shaw is like, hey, no, I didn't want any of this. Feel free to just like leave. Yeah. Yeah. ah Hey, I didn't. at This wasn't me.
01:50:26
Speaker
she I didn't even invite her. Hey, please. i Don't fight me. Just you could go. i didn't This was supposed to be a party. This was supposed to be pleasant event all of us. I was sitting in my woodstone chair and she just came in and started fucking things up. I didn't.
01:50:47
Speaker
It's great. It's very, i I mean, the last time we saw the X-Men is when Juggernaut and Colossus got into a fight and then saw Wolverine and was like, you want some of this too? And Wolverine was like, nope. nope It's bad. Love it. you Love it.
01:51:05
Speaker
Yeah. As they pick themselves up, Amara asks how the X-Men knew where to find them.
Amara's Power Realization
01:51:11
Speaker
It must have been the telepathic summons, Rachel assumes. But as they step outside, they see a trail of destruction centered around the Hellfire Mansion. Amara says, did I do all of this?
01:51:27
Speaker
Yes. Who else? And how many times do you have to go through this exact scenario? Elsewhere, Jaime Rodriguez is watching an anti-mutant news show on his watchman. Remember a lot of the subway? Yeah, this is incredible. These are like... weren't They didn't last very long. They were like these little portable TVs with an antenna. They were like an antenna TVs, but they were like ah the size of God...
01:51:59
Speaker
god the size of like a remote, like a fat remote control. And you would walk around, you could tune them like a radio. And there was a little black and white screen on the top of them. I, for whatever reason, I was just talking to somebody about this other day.
01:52:15
Speaker
You could only with like, with the power that it required, you could only get like 30 minutes of watch time out of it. And it was battery powered. It was. Yeah. Cause it was completely battery powered. The,
01:52:29
Speaker
This is before rechargeable batteries were really a thing. What it really was was for dorky middle-aged. Watching one episode of i Dream of Jeannie. It was for dorky middle-aged guys who ah whose friggin' wives made them come to the function when the when the boys are on The damn ball game is on. dang ball game is on. My my team is playing.
01:52:55
Speaker
Anyway, he's watching his watchman waiting for the subway and deciding he's simply going to destroy the necklace when a mugger stabs him in the back.
Kulan Gath's Release
01:53:06
Speaker
No! Jaime Rodriguez! Oh, no! My favorite character, dead. He'll be back, I'm sure. Yeah. The mugger picks up the necklace and suddenly the entire subway bursts into flames. Apparently, Kulan Goth is free.
01:53:25
Speaker
Not Kulan Goth!
01:53:30
Speaker
Oh, now Jaime Rodriguez is dead. Kulan Goth is here. The friggin' subway's on fire. the heck?
01:53:41
Speaker
I'm afraid to read the next issue, Pat. I'm scared of it. Well, do I have to? Today, Matt, we'll get to that next episode. I think episode 59. I think it's like three episodes. Do i have to, Pat? I'm so scared.
01:54:01
Speaker
Oh, man, you're going to hate Coolangath. who What do you think of this little run? think it was fun. It was obviously life. Death is our highlight here. The art is incredible. The story really goes in deep and it.
01:54:14
Speaker
yeah Wait, you think life. Death is the highlight. You like it better than Wraith kill. Yes. Yes, I think I do. oh Okay. All right. Well, but it to each his own, I guess.
01:54:26
Speaker
But I think like even outside of that iconic issue, the Wraith kill. And amount of storm we get here, like out of her element, entering another new phase of her life and the way that she explores that, we know that this is Claremont's absolute favorite to dive into. And we don't go hungry here. We have all of the storm character development you could possibly want. Right. Yeah.
01:54:59
Speaker
a little light on the rest of the X-Men, but I think it's enough of a story to carry itself until they show up. Storm could hold down her own series if she needed to. Right. Yeah, this is definitely Storm's arc. And I think it makes sense. the The X-Men are really kind of in flux at the moment, right?
X-Men's Purpose Reflection
01:55:20
Speaker
um Rachel Summers is here, but we don't really know much. like We don't really know what she's doing here yet.
01:55:27
Speaker
And like Nightcrawler says, they feel like they've lost their purpose, right? like this was I think that speech was kind of Chris Claremont saying like, Hey, just so you know, everything that the X-Men was two years ago is either gone or totally totally different. Yeah, yes.
01:55:48
Speaker
and You know, there's no Cyclops. There's no Jean Grey. I mean, Kitty and Wolverine are are changing. Storm has lost her powers. i mean, like... The new mutants are here and they're like a big part of it. Like everything about this has changed. Is it even still, what does the X-Men still mean now? yeah And why why are why are we still going? What, what is the thing that ties this X-Men to the X-Men from two years ago? And it's just, I mean, there's some similar characters obviously, but it's just a
01:56:23
Speaker
ethos Yeah. And clearly it's, it's him working through some of that stuff himself, right? It's him asking that question of what, what are the X-Men? Why am I still doing this? I know there are more stories to tell, but why would I tell them?
01:56:42
Speaker
Right. And I mean, one his next thing is, I'm going to tell a story about Kulan Gath. So maybe he is like a little bit running out of ideas.
01:56:54
Speaker
This guy sounds pretty cool. i My final takeaway from all of this is that Amanda Sefton, because she's written is calling everybody hun H O N. Okay. And specifically h O N, not H U N. I can only read this in a thick Delco accent ah with the suburban Philadelphian accent for folks that don't know is one that Matt, you and I grew up with and yeah,
01:57:26
Speaker
Can you do it? What's your best? I'll do my best time. Ma, wherever you are, give me strength. Bad guys just up the ante, Aurora, in a big way.
01:57:41
Speaker
Do we know? No, we do know she's not from Philadelphia. Damn it. Get out of here. All you while you have the chance. All he is. All he all he is
01:57:52
Speaker
He's got an eye out, stuff that you could buy out. If you had time machine that you'd like to try out, Pat Steals and Steals. Ooh, it's time, Matt, for Pat's Steals and Deals. this edition, it's been a little while, Matt. Thought it was a good idea to check in on what Saturday morning cartoons are doing these
1980s Cartoon Nostalgia
01:58:14
Speaker
days. Yeah, right.
01:58:17
Speaker
we're going to start with Saturday. This is the one that always really stretches the premise of Pat Steele's deal. That's right. You don't have to buy any of this. You just have to tune in. Saturday morning on NBC. We'll start here. We have a ah very cartoonish peacock.
01:58:36
Speaker
We very cartoonish cross-eyed peacock telling us, hey, wake up. Wait till you see what's coming on NBC. It's a whole new season. oh What we're looking at here, Matt, this is pretty impressive. We have snorks.
01:58:51
Speaker
Oh, my God. I remember. Remember Snorks? I do remember the Snorks. They were the underwater Smurfs, and they i had a bunch of little figurines of the Snorks, and of course, I brought them to the ocean to play in the ocean with them.
01:59:07
Speaker
Of course. I lost Did you leave them there? I lost a Snork in the ocean, and I was really upset, and I looked and looked and looked. I'm guessing... If it didn't just immediately get swept out to sea to become micro plastic, I'm guessing it sunk into the the what do you call it? The the sand like immediately.
01:59:29
Speaker
im sure maybe some other kid found it and that kid. and treasured it forever 20 years later a on a different continent and it sent them down a rabbit hole of what the fuck is this thing i in addition we have the pink panther and sons this is the pink panther from the pink panther movies like the little mascot that would be the funny intros eventually spun off into his own cartoons and here's his all of his sons uh
02:00:01
Speaker
Guys fucking all the time. Classic Smurfs. the Alvin and the Chipmunks. Classic Alvin and the Chipmunks. Kid Video. Brand new show. Takes you to the pup side of the universe.
02:00:14
Speaker
Okay. ah Mr. T. There's the Mr. T and Friends show. We have Going Bananas, which appears to be a live action show with a monkey. Kid Video. K-I-D-D.
02:00:26
Speaker
So so this the Smurfs and Alvin and the Chipmunks had been around. This isn't the beginning them. But this I think this is the beginning of the Snorks. Yes. Premiere of the Snorks as well as Pink Panther and Sons Kid Video. Oh, it says new show wherever it. Yeah. Kid Video didn't really didn't really stick around.
02:00:45
Speaker
I'm not gleaning much from this ah wiki wiki Wikipedia article. Okay. Well, if you want the full dis description, the master blaster is waging a battle to rule the entire rock and roll world.
02:01:00
Speaker
Okay. and the pups on the the pup side of the universe. It might say flip. hi Anyway, we also have Spider-Man and we have occasional appearances from celebrities for short spots.
02:01:12
Speaker
They have David Hasselhoff as an example. This is ah yeah, that's Spider-Man and his amazing friends. Now, I think we will actually meet Firestar pretty soon in this. Very soon. Yeah. And this this this can't wait.
02:01:28
Speaker
ah Then over on CBS, we have Saturday's The Place. Okay. Listen to some of these iconic. So the image we're looking at is Richard Pryor holding a very bulky box television. And all of these things are flying out of it. We have okay Jim Henson's Muppet Baby. Yes!
02:01:49
Speaker
We have the Get Along Gang. It appears to be fuck i assorted mammals. in ah a school or maybe running a train or something. We have the Saturday Supercade cartoons about Space Age, Q-Bert, Donkey Kong and Kangaroo. Okay. I don't.
02:02:11
Speaker
Dungeons and Dragons, the cartoon. Okay. The Dungeons and Dragons cartoon. Pole position. i have no idea what pole position is, but it looks like they're all in a tall building. yeah And then Pryor's Place, the short-lived Richard Pryor Saturday morning kids cartoon where he hung out with a bunch of puppets. They're not puppets.
02:02:31
Speaker
I had no idea. They are just puppets. I had no idea that that was even a thing. Yes, a very real thing. i And that's CBS. I'll tell you, if ABC was running Saturday morning cartoons at this time...
02:02:44
Speaker
They weren't marketing them well. No.
Community Engagement Encouragement
02:03:05
Speaker
Oh, Matt, that about brings us to the end of the episode. As always, I'd encourage folks to ah get out there, you know, put yourself out there. but i Put yourself out there. You know that, you know that, ah that boy you have a crush on?
02:03:20
Speaker
Ask him out. You know that. Tell him about Mutant Menace. But ah but tell him about Mutant Menace too. You know that, ah that college course you've been thinking about taking? Go take it. And write write an essay about ah Mutant Menace. Tell everybody in the class about Mutant Menace.
02:03:36
Speaker
You should be most of the things that would also better your life. You can also use it as as an opportunity to either tell people about Mutant Menace or rate us, review us, like things that we put out there, follow us wherever you can, subscribe. What's another word?
02:03:55
Speaker
That's it. ah You can... um You can follow. yeah Some of those places are... there's we have a Discord in the show notes that you can visit and and join. And there's a lot of cool chat there. We share it with ah the Save Your Game podcast. You can go to MutantMenacePod on Instagram where we got...
02:04:17
Speaker
ah Stuff. Lots really cool show art that Matt makes. he's He's very talented with it and doesn't brag about it. But also little clips that we both make. We're both very good at. Yeah. And you can find some of that stuff also on YouTube. Mutant Menace podcast or pod.
02:04:36
Speaker
I don't know. I'm sleepy. I got sleepy. I got sleepy by the end of this episode, sleep Patrick. Yeah. Wake up so you can say your thank yous to a little makeup. You wanted to. guide it been but the bit You wanted to.
02:04:51
Speaker
So that you can say your thank yous to... Don't start again. Say your thank yous to... Say your thank yous to Julius L.A. You wanted to. And say your thank yous to Chris Wilson. You wanted to Perfect. And with that, Matt, I guess there's nothing else for us to say aside, of course, from our famous sign-off. Yeah, our famous sign-off that I have that i have right here. That you have written down right in front of you in case we ever forget. That I have right here. And I did not...
02:05:22
Speaker
forget it. Well, I'll say it first. As always, hearken, oh man. I am power, don me, obey me, and the world is yours. And remember, make me blondie!