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67 - Uncanny X-Men #196-200 - Lifedeath II & The Trial of Magneto
118 Plays4 days ago
Oh boy are we covering some all-timers in this episode, folks! We're back with the X-Men in their single-issue-story era, which includes Claremont and Barry Windsor-Smith's terrific follow up to Lifedeath, and the iconic Trial of Magneto! And you'd better believe we're talking a lot! Tune in!
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
Emptying Claremont’s notebook. A Canadian family. X-Men murder mystery. Advanced Genetics greasers. Kitty inhales. Chloroform tips. Do it, just do it, you won’t. Darth Vader. Worst issue. Lifedeath II! Where is Storm? Earl Grey. Holoempathic Crystal. Spiral is here! “Two places that don’t want you to play Pokemon Go in them.” The Trial of Magneto! George Lucas. Fenris is here! The future of the X-Men. Cheese. Sticker history.
Check out the Imperfect Storm essays by Osvaldo Oyola here: https://themiddlespaces.com/2015/06/30/imperfect-storm-part-one/
TIMESTAMPS:
8:59 - Pat’s Email Corner
30:49 - Uncanny X-Men #196: “What Was That?!!”
50:26 - Uncanny X-Men #197: “To Save Arcade?!?”
1:00:49 - Uncanny X-Men #198: “Lifedeath II: From the Heart of Darkness”
1:38:23 - Uncanny X-Men #199: “The Spiral Path”
1:56:20 - Uncanny X-Men #200: “The Trial of Magneto”
2:27:22 - Pat’s Steals ‘n’ Deals
Join our Patreon! Free, or pay-what-you-want: patreon.com/mutantmenace
Write into Pat's Email Corner: mutantmenacepod@gmail.com
Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/fPv7hRgTeV
Instagram: @mutantmenacepod
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Transcript
Introduction and Reporting from Westchester
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Trish Tobey with W.A.R.C. reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
Podcast Introduction and Format Discussion
00:00:35
Speaker
Hey everybody, I'm Matt Aucamp. And I'm Pat Reber. And say it with us, Vio? welcome Welcome to Mutant Menace.
00:00:46
Speaker
Did Vio put her name in for the i don't remember if Vio did. I don't think Vio did. Okay. That's why I said it with a question mark. And it's okay. It's okay.
00:00:57
Speaker
We're breaking our own rules, which we're not allowed to do. We're allowed to get things wrong. It's the listeners that aren't allowed to be wrong ever. That's right. It's who are. And they don't have access to our emails, so they can't they don't know.
00:01:12
Speaker
Only Vio knows, and Vio's not going to tell. Pat. Matt. what are we What are we talking about today?
Exploring X-Men Series and Storytelling Approaches
00:01:19
Speaker
Today we are talking about the straight-up...
00:01:23
Speaker
X-Men. Yes! No ice. Oh, man! It's been so long since we've talked about this. We were just looking through the schedule, and in the last, like, two months, I think we've covered three actual series X-Men issues. Hey, Hold on to your dongus because that is the way that i always do this way that this is going to be for the rest of the podcast. Because like from now on, there will always be at least four X-Men series. There's always several titles. yeah yeah like I guess from now on, it'll be X-Men, X-Factor, and New Mutants.
00:02:05
Speaker
and then Wolverine will get added in. What's an X-Factor? It's reality TV show. It's a reality TV show. And then Wolverine will get added in, and then Excalibur will get out added in and then New Mutants turns to X-Force. So it'll be it'll be a rotating five series for a very long time.
00:02:27
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, we're going to... ah fall behind pretty fast we're going to be done this podcast by 2030 we're just going to start releasing five a week yeah so okay so we're talking about the x-men man this series of issues man is it's like a just total grab bag every issue you're getting a different you're getting a different taste a different texture a different flavor Yeah, I know you and I have some thoughts on why the X-Men are behaving this way. But ah do you remember what the X-Men were doing?
00:03:04
Speaker
Before this, like what was the the last time we read a real X-Man? I'm going to have an ah my observation and I'll probably say this again later in the episode, but my observation about these issues, I think, extends to the previous, say, six issues of X-Men we've read. yeah. yeah Very much feels like Chris Claremont is taking his notebook.
00:03:25
Speaker
like Okay, so imagine in the Burn and Cockroom eras, he had big blocks of like, this is what's happening during during these 12 issues. And then the next five issues, we're doing this. And then the next seven issues, we're doing At this point, he's like turning his notebook upside down and shaking ideas out onto the table and kind of scrambling around and being like, what do we got? What do we got? Kulan goth. I wanted to do this Kulan goth. Everything's medieval.
00:03:54
Speaker
it's not that It's not that all of it is bad. Quilon Goth maybe was. But it's not like... Like, War Hunt was really cool. Sure. And some of these issues we're about to read, a lot of them are really good. It's just like... There's a there's only a very thin thematic thread connecting them.
00:04:13
Speaker
And we had fun with the... ah what were the last ones we read? I guess Power Pack and Fire Star. Yeah. saw up with them But yeah, each of those are very much standalone stories.
00:04:28
Speaker
So the last time we saw them, they were fighting. They were fighting Morlocks and threatening Power Pack. Right. um Outside of that, Storm left like two or three times, right? i took it Yeah.
Character Developments and Relationships
00:04:43
Speaker
It took it like a full year from when she said, I'm leaving the X-Men to go back to Africa for her to get to Africa because she she either just like kept not going or Kulan Goth stole her ship and turned it into medieval.
00:04:59
Speaker
Right. Aside from that, they also hung out with Alpha Flight. They went to Asgard with the new mutants. We got an annual where they told a weird campfire story.
00:05:12
Speaker
Which feels like a thousand years ago, but that was that was like probably in the time these were being published, like three months ago. To be fair, we've read like three years worth of comics just by volume since then.
00:05:31
Speaker
um So I guess, oh right where's where are all the characters at? We have Rachel Summers, who just decided to start going by the name Phoenix. She makes the decision in these issues again.
00:05:42
Speaker
i guess they need to do it. Yeah, she comes back around to it. but she just decided to start going by the name phoenix we have professor x xavier got beaten up by a bunch of his students and almost died and healer brought him back to life and but told him to take it easy which he hasn't been doing and let his students take care of him which he hasn't and he didn't even tell his students it happened tell that they went into battle together and he didn't let them know
00:06:13
Speaker
that he was um And he's like, he's been getting worse and unable to use his powers. Right. Wolverine and Kitty recently got back from Japan and they have this bond that nobody else quite understands. Right.
00:06:29
Speaker
And Kitty is Shadowcat. She's grown up. I guess that wasn't that was all Kitty, Kitty, Pride and Wolverine, which was actually 100 years ago. Right. Colossus is still like, boo hoo. I I'm not I am not good enough to be on the X-Men. And boo hoo. I miss my secret wars girlfriend who's dead. You've got low self-esteem. I never talked once. I couldn't actually speak with.
00:06:54
Speaker
um Who else do we got? We got Rogue, who has just been fucking solid ever since she joined the team. Yeah, yeah. She was a little... She she seems to have worked through a lot of what was plaguing her.
00:07:10
Speaker
Kurt Nightcrawler, who is just... who He's leading the team right now and he rad he's not happy about it. He thinks he's doing a bad job he kind of is doing a bad job. But everybody nobody will tell him that.
00:07:25
Speaker
No, no. They just say it behind his back whenever anyone else is leading the team. They're like, oh, oh God, this person's doing better than Nightcrawler. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and Kitty's development as a leader has been showing.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, since she's gotten back from Japan, she's kind of become a lot more of an adult. Yeah. She's like a so ah squad leader, not a team leader. but a yeah And I guess the last thing we should say is this is happening during Secret Wars 2.
00:07:56
Speaker
two And thus, Magneto, as I guess we'll find out why, is a good guy now. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:06
Speaker
And there's we just have to deal with it. We just have to accept it. And he's dating Lee Forrester. I think these issues make me feel better about it.
00:08:18
Speaker
But it seems like the impetus for it is just editorial mandate. Dim duped. Just kind of being like, this is the case. This is true now.
00:08:31
Speaker
Okay, sure. Yeah, yeah. So... I also, I want to get into sort of like a, um I've got a real thought about X-Men that I think will change the way that we sort of view these comics, like from the ground up. And it starts with...
00:08:59
Speaker
Matt, it sounds like that was going to be revolutionary. So I'm sorry that we have to interrupt it.
Listener Interactions and Feedback
00:09:05
Speaker
Maybe next episode. to write it down really fast. But right now, it's time. Are you paying attention? Hey, stop looking at your desk. It's time for Pat's email corner.
00:09:21
Speaker
We're going to hop right in, Matt. We're going get to Ink Master talking about episode 66.
00:09:27
Speaker
Short and sweet. Hey, Pat, tell Matt I finally have my laptop back. Yay! I actually got it back the day before the last episode went out, and the monitor is working perfectly.
00:09:38
Speaker
It's honestly such a relief to finally have it back after so long, and I'm glad this whole saga is finally over. inc we Do we feel like this was a dishonesty or do we or does he get a pass here?
00:09:51
Speaker
I feel like it's true, but Ink, if you could pass along, maybe some some pictures or a short video of it working, it would it would help me a lot. Well, I ah yeah also i also i just mean like when last we talked about Ink Master's laptop being broken, it wasn't broken.
00:10:12
Speaker
And you know how we feel about dishonesty. Wait. Oh, we read the email, but it was. see it You matt really should have emailed us like immediate, like the before you left the staples or whatever.
00:10:29
Speaker
They do that? ah They used to. Thank you for the update, Inc. Very proud of you. ah Please keep us posted if anything bad happens. Proud of the geek squad that helped fix your laptop.
00:10:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Up next, we have Ambitious Eric. i go Okay. Some folks have sounded off about this in the Discord as well. Hey, Pat, could you please show Matt these panels using your internet magic? That explains my previous email.
00:11:02
Speaker
Please don't show them to him in person. He hasn't earned that. So maybe I'll forward this email to you, Matt. But it is there is... i two panels here of john constantine reminding people that his name is pronounced constant time you mean constant you mean constantine you said constantine that's correct yeah yeah but here in this panel he's saying john constantine that's t-i-n-e rhymes with fine no he that's wrong constantine doesn't rhyme with fine
00:11:35
Speaker
And then this guy, maybe in maybe in his area of Britain, they pronounce it fiend. Okay. Fiend. Okay. That's it's all. It's all fiend.
00:11:47
Speaker
i Okay. i You can see where somebody can get, hack you can see how somebody can get confused there. Yeah. i He goes on. He says, i was also almost devastated that you don't read my inclet incredibly clever emails in full since I'm using some really A-tier material here. But then I realized it's the best way for Pat and I to deepen our parasocial relationship. He knows secrets about my cutting wit. Nobody else does. He keeps them for himself. I respect that. And he teases me with them.
00:12:15
Speaker
He teases me with him like when we're off air air, we're not broadcasting live. um He's like, he's like, I know how clever Eric is ambitious Eric. And I'm like, tell me, tell me, tell me. He's like, no, nope.
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm keeping this one. no it's it's thank you. with Ambitious Eric. We've said it before, but we do have to paraphrase and maybe edit emails just to fit everything in for time. um
00:12:45
Speaker
And so I'm going to skip the rest of your email. Let's keep moving Next, we have Canadian Dan. Canadian diane Yeah, he and his whole family listen.
00:12:58
Speaker
he Well, we get a little more detail here. He says, hey, Pat, could you please tell Matt that I just listened to your all Alpha Flight episode 66? I was enjoying it very much until I heard that you guys will not be going deep into the Mantlo run. This brings back my concern for less Canadian content, and I believe you will find a lot more villains that Matt's laugh will apply to.
00:13:19
Speaker
He is recommending that we just continue as a sixth series on top of the five that we're splitting off into. We continue with Alpha Flight. It's just the problem is it becomes less and less X-Men related and it's not good.
00:13:32
Speaker
But we promise to ah keep featuring Canadians here in Pat's email corner. We could just like say we'll we'll sneak Canadian provinces into our recaps every now and then.
00:13:47
Speaker
You know what we should do is just like put a very quiet third track down where occasionally one of us is just going Canada. Okay. Yeah, I think so.
00:14:01
Speaker
In closing, Canadian Dan says, I would like to congratulate my son for his podcast debut. Canadian wife is not that happy to discuss mutant menace around the dinner table, but we're working on it.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yay, Canadian. Hey, Canadian wife. I am. My name's Matt. I am am happy to meet you and we'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. You Canadian wife, you can write into Pat's email corner and we kind of have to talk about it. Mutantmanispod at gmail.com.
00:14:29
Speaker
Mutantmanispod at gmail.com. And you kind of have, we kind of have to talk about whatever you say in your email. So it doesn't have to be X-Men related. You also don't have to go by Canadian wife. If you have a real name. No, no. And, and you're allowed to get divorced.
00:14:46
Speaker
Whoa. Yeah. I'm just saying, you don't, it's it's not that you should. i think Canadian Dan rules and you're lucky to have him as ah as a spouse. I'm just saying,
00:15:01
Speaker
you are allowed to get divorced. You don't have to be Canadian wife.
00:15:08
Speaker
Well, it's... i Okay. yeah I don't think you should. I'm saying UK. You're allowed. see, we're talking about what a person has the freedom to do. Mutant menace pod.
00:15:26
Speaker
Very excited to hear from you. Let's keep on moving, Matt. We've got another Dan here. Daniel, who, if you remember, we just haven't nicknamed yet. Oh, I thought of a nickname for him. Hold on. I mean, I'm flipping through my notes.
00:15:39
Speaker
Also, while you're doing that, get your random number generator ready. oh i Oh, yeah. Hold on. I'll put my notes down and I'll do that actually quick. Okay. ah We have 35...
00:15:51
Speaker
past questions or statements or responses as to episodes 31 and 32. Oh, no. oh no Okay. All right. So pull it up. I'm going to go through some of the other chatter here first. Hey, Pat, tell Matt, it's me again, your favorite email novelist. I'm getting slower at these responses, and it really is because the stories are getting so good, and I have so much to say about them. ah I feel like the X-Men are finally finding their stride through Claremont and cementing themselves as a Marvel staple rather than the pet project that you refuse to give up on.
00:16:25
Speaker
So again, this is back in 31 and 32, Mutant Menace 31 and 32, if you remember remember those good old days. Anyways, here's my usual armada of responses. We get all the responses to past, and we also have a few responses to the...
00:16:41
Speaker
intros and Pat's email corners of episode 61 to 63. Still a few behind, but number one, I do wish I could get into a crisis protocol game, but I don't think I have the time, money, space, or patience to assemble and paint the minis. Yeah. Besides the only nerds that would play it with me would be you guys in the discord.
00:17:00
Speaker
I don't think I would do that. I think he means the other discord guys. Oh, okay. Cause I don't have that kind of time, but yeah, I don't slander Matt. This is for you. Don't slander the X-Men Legends games like that. They were masterpieces. Whoa, masterpieces.
00:17:21
Speaker
All right. Look, i'm I'm not here to take that away from you. So I'll just be quiet about it. Oh, wow. But did Owen Wilson suddenly show up on the podcast?
00:17:39
Speaker
Finally, for the current episodes, which he keeps calling future episodes. My wife does the same shit when saying bagel. She says beg all when it should be pronounced like a seabird. Bagel.
00:17:52
Speaker
Bagel. Bagel. baal be gull big goal bagel bagel all right i got my random number generator here okay uh number 35 give me a number number seven wouldn't the banish and kill setting on rom's gun just be vaporize
00:18:11
Speaker
number 26 there's not a lot to say about Yep, you're right. Number 26. If they had to trim this comic down for editorial reasons, why didn't they keep any of the good shit after Magneto's monologue and Kitty's death? I'm not sure. I remember... Oh, oh okay. So this is This is where Magneto thought he killed Kitty Pryde, right? Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
And then it suddenly just fucking ends. And then they have an entire page about her like playing in the ocean. Or like three pages of them just like playing in the ocean or whatever.
00:18:49
Speaker
Oh. It's just like, yeah, why would why wouldn't you wrap up that moment? They just cut to the beach and they were like, and Kitty's fine. And Kitty fine. And then she like plays a prank on Colossus. It turns she didn't die. Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker
ah All right. Give me one more. we were only doing two and the people said that they they needed more. These are in in numerical order. That's strange, right? For a random number generator. So did this random number generator jumped from 26 27. 27. We don't talk enough about how accurate Scott Summers is with his eye beams. I mean, I imagine how good of a shot I would be if I just had to look at something to snipe it. Imagine playing video games and just using your eyes to aim instead of your thumbs. Yeah.
00:19:32
Speaker
I think we talk a lot about it. He's got spatial geometry brain. Well, so we talk about... i think what Daniel's saying is we talk a lot about spatial geometry brain, and that is very impressive. But what we're not saying is the dude's on cheat mode.
00:19:48
Speaker
he doesn't have to so he did He doesn't have to line up his sights, and there's no eye-hand coordination here. You just look at what you want to shoot, and it shoots it. that's the So we talk a lot about spatial geometry in the context of...
00:20:03
Speaker
Ricochet angles. Yes. But the first shot is also his observation of spatial geometry, just like the distance, the the momentum.
00:20:14
Speaker
i'm he's not just and He's not like looking in one direction and shooting somebody in the other. He just knows exactly where to look each time because of his spatial geometry brain. No, no. Yes. we No, no, no, because he's seeing. It's not like his eyes are closed until he shoots. Right. He is looking through his visor. He can absolutely see. And then he decides when to shoot.
00:20:37
Speaker
So if a bad guy walks into the room, I'm not going to miss them. I'm not going to miss them. I'm going to only open my eyes when I'm looking at the bad guy. Not my open eyes. I'm only going open my visor when I'm looking at the bad guy. My eyes are open. I'm looking the whole time.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yes. So I don't see how that refutes my point. Because Pat, you've never failed to look at something. You've never been like, damn, I'm trying to look at this and I keep missing.
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh, you're saying that it's like it's a it's a natural advantage for him all he has to do is look at it. Yeah, he can hit the moon by just looking at a part on the spot.
00:21:23
Speaker
That is pretty cool.
00:21:37
Speaker
Oh, Pat, I gotta ask you something. It's been nagging at me all week. Oh, what okay. Yeah, what's going on, buddy? Every day, I look at my phone and I see, did did Pat message message me yet and tell me, all right did you do anything X-Men related this week?
Parallels Between Historical and X-Men Themes
00:21:52
Speaker
Did I do anything X-Men related this week? Uh... You know, over the weekend here, it was the 4th of July, which in the U.S. for some of our international listeners is our Independence Day. It is a bank holiday. So.
00:22:12
Speaker
it's the It's America 250. It is the it is the what is it? What is it? Quadra. Quadra. Quadra. There's a there's there's a word for it. Like there's a scientific term for 250 250 thing. Yeah, I don't remember what it is. But point is, yeah, it was it was America 250. We've we've lived for 250 quadra quadra millennia.
00:22:41
Speaker
quadramillennial because it's a quarter quarter of a millennium yeah maybe yeah yeah so you went down to washington dc and you you would partook in the no no no 250 festival that was that was i've been to washington dc since january of 2021 what
00:23:01
Speaker
so
00:23:05
Speaker
i I was dog-sitting. We were out in the suburbs, not far from where you live, Matt. Downingtown, Pennsylvania. That is close to where I live. That's where I grew up. ah <unk>s where i lost That's where I lost my virginity.
00:23:19
Speaker
Wait, that's where I grew up and lost my virginity. Whoa! Holy shit! You lost your virginity in my parents' house? ah Look, we i yeah kids need some place to go.
00:23:32
Speaker
Anyway, I was... isn because it I was dog sitting. Yeah, sure. i And my parents have two very anxious dogs. So ah we suffered just like the X-Men.
00:23:52
Speaker
Okay. That's X-Men related. Yeah. Also the power went out. So we didn't have air conditioning on the hottest weekend of the year. Pretty super heroic to take care Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a hero.
00:24:04
Speaker
But enough about my heroics, Matt. What about you? Did you do anything X-Men related this week? um You know, i I do have something X-Men related that I observed.
00:24:15
Speaker
Did you hear about this guy... who this is this is another America 250 thing. Do you ever read this? this i don't even remember his name, and we shouldn't so we shouldn't say his name because he's like a far-right broadcaster um one who was at The America 250 thing, and he was at some rally, and he was playing some game called Yes or No, and one of the Yes or No things was, i don't even know how it's funny.
00:24:48
Speaker
It doesn't fucking make sense, and it's stupid. okay But the idea of the Salem Witch Trials came up. Which is very X-Men. Yes. And ah he was like, he asked a little girl in the audience, like, what what do you think I would say about the Salem witch trials and the little girl? Like, did did they go too far? And the little girl was like, no. And he's like, did they not go far enough? And he was like, she was like, yes. And he was like, why? And she was like, because there are witches.
00:25:13
Speaker
And he's like, exactly. And his whole point is like, thinking like if the Salem witch tribe, he said, first of all, he said, I don't know if these women were guilty or not. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, if these people were more organized, then maybe it wouldn't have been such a travesty. Maybe it wouldn't have been so chaotic.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah, i giving him the absolute most generous read. I guess what he's saying is if they went through specific courts and if they had... protocols for prosecuting witches yeah in the most absolute most generous read what he's saying is less people might have been executed because it wouldn't have been even though there was mass hysteria happening it wouldn't have infected the courts the court that's had a procedure
00:26:07
Speaker
So this is like a this is a grift. i yeah i know exactly who you're talking about. He's also the same guy that tried to start like non woke chocolate company. If you remember that, I think he's tried like he's, he's behind a lot of those anti woke products that they mark up and chuds go out and buy. But yeah,
00:26:30
Speaker
The this specifically is not giving it a generous read, trying to excuse the mass arrest of immigrants, right? Or any group, really, just to be able to say, like, hey, this was a court process that they went through.
00:26:49
Speaker
o What you have to concede is that witches were real and that these people, if a court of law found them guilty, were practicing witchcraft and it was worth rooting out.
00:27:01
Speaker
even if they you Even if they weren't practicing witchcraft, it was worth rooting out people who were... at risk of practicing witchcraft so that's the medium read i think right is the medium read is the ungenerous read is yeah like he's he's trying to excuse the sort of kangaroo courts around immigration but the medium read is him saying yeah there are witches and they shouldn't be here and ah they might not be magical witches but they were you know they were
00:27:37
Speaker
this The court could have sussed it out, and they were undesirable people to begin with. These people, they were ruming running naked in the in the in the woods and making everyone uncomfortable. We should have executed them, right? Like, that's the medium read. And that, i think, is kind of a little closer to what he actually believes. Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
but what But yeah, even in this most generous read where he's saying, like, look, if they had gone further and had a protocol for it, nobody would have been killed because they would have found that none of them are actually witches.
00:28:11
Speaker
But even then, what you're saying is you're taking the United States, which was founded literally on religious freedom. It was like the whole point. It was whole reason they ran away. It was like, hey, people should be able to be whatever religion they want because we...
00:28:28
Speaker
What they really meant was we should be able to be Quakers or whatever. But the idea that people should have freedom of religion. but If we had a protocol for prosecuting people of a specific religion, even if no one got executed, that is specifically anti the Constitution of the United States.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yes. On the phone its, like, basest foundation. Even if you're one of those people who's like, well, the Founding Fathers didn't say anything about... ah that racism was bad at the very least at the very least you would have to concede that they said that religious prosecution is bad because that was the whole point yeah um so again in the most generous read he's a dipshit in the medium read he's a hateful dipshit in the worst read he's a
00:29:21
Speaker
ah Nazi. ah Yeah. Which is which, again, I know exactly you who you're talking about. He's a Nazi. Yeah. Yeah. That's the the plain truth of it.
00:29:32
Speaker
That's my X-Men related thing is that. Yeah, that is certainly yeah an X-Men villain thing to do. I didn't know there were people out there. And apparently there is a small, I don't know that he's one of them, but there is a small conspiracy theory subculture out there that does believe that the Salem witch trials were actually trying to ferret out. I don't think he's one of them, but I did find he' somebody that exploits those groups of people. and Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:59
Speaker
So that's my X-Men related thing. I just I think I think it is fun. I think it is fun that there are people out there that are like, hmm, Salem Witch Trials were good, actually. So.
00:30:10
Speaker
So what was Matt? You asked me earlier, but I don't remember what I said. What are we talking about today?
00:30:18
Speaker
night Can you remind me? was i i I thought I was taking notes on some thought that I had. no, no't no. Oh, okay. he was We're in the middle of a recording. Why would you be?
00:30:29
Speaker
oh okay. i just I thought I had something really important to say. I don't know. Okay, well, anyway. Today we're talking about the Uncanny X-Men. um Patrick. Yeah. can i can i Can I do you a big favor?
00:30:44
Speaker
It's about time. I'm going to read you all about a little comic book called uncanny x-pen number 196 what was that what what happened that was uh it's a comic book called what was that what that was that's the comic book it's called what was that Writer Chris Claremont. Are you okay?
00:31:09
Speaker
Artists John Romina Jr. and Dan Green. Colorist Glynis Oliver. Letterer Tom Orszakowski. Editor Ann Nocenti. And editor-in-chief James Wilson.
00:31:22
Speaker
Huh. 1970, 1789 to 1798. nineteen seventy seventeen eighty nine to seventeen ninety eight Release date May August We open on a panicked ex Xavier. Mid-lecture, having just received a psychic flash from one of the attendees, they're gonna murder someone.
00:31:43
Speaker
who is the killer, and who are they going to kill? He can't probe any further, unfortunately, because in his weakened state, he's been taking drugs to mute the thoughts of others that he can no longer screen out.
00:31:58
Speaker
He's on drugs. What drugs is he on? If you need to silence other people's voices, like if you just need to not hear what the people around you are saying, that's got to be a pretty strong hallucinogenic, right?
00:32:14
Speaker
That's sort of either a a strong hallucinogenic or he's got to not care so much about how bad... Like how much it hurts to have people's thoughts invading his brain. So it's an opioid.
00:32:25
Speaker
Like it's one of them two. Okay. Yeah, yeah i What is our what's the what's the happy medium between the two, Matt? Is that like ayahuasca? I think i think literally opium, right? Smoking opium is probably the mediay the median between.
00:32:44
Speaker
Perfect. an opioid and a hallucinogenic, right? Like straight opium. Also, speaking of drugs... There's just students in his class just blasting cigs in the middle of class. Yeah, they are. It's pretty rad. i And they're just sitting there. He he gets this flash of a thought and that's like, all right, we're ready We're going to kill him tonight.
00:33:09
Speaker
And he just stops his lecture. He's just staring at all of his lectures like they just murdered some just announced they're going to murder someone. They're doing like the he's looking left, he's looking right, with his eyes narrowed.
00:33:23
Speaker
It's like six battles. And all the kids look vaguely menacing. ah But he's on drugs, so of course they do. It's like a fear and loathing in Las Vegas kind of movie. Yeah, so he's going to send the X-Men out to hunt for the potential killer.
00:33:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah. yeah he's This is kind of below them. It's like, I can't do anything about this. So I'm going to have them go on just like a wild, a wild chase, ah because I think one of these kids is up to some murderous mischief. Yeah, I've got a murder mystery for you.
00:34:10
Speaker
So we just saved the universe. In a brief and pretty early interlude, we find Aurora in the plains of the Serengeti trying to find herself.
Storm's Personal Journey and Symbolic Struggles
00:34:22
Speaker
I found you. You're right there. You're right there. You found her, but she can't find herself. Oh, OK. She comes across a what you've written as a majestic lion. This is one of the most pathetic looking lines I've ever seen. What's up with this lion, man?
00:34:41
Speaker
It is not a great. it It looks like, you know, when you go like you see pictures of lions in the wild and they're like big and mighty. And then you go to the zoo when you see them and they're like sad and pretty scrawny and like ah it of been kind of soft. Yeah, it looks like it looks like that.
00:34:59
Speaker
Yeah. But it's got a big so white mane. It looks like they drew like a panther and then they got the draft back.
00:35:11
Speaker
And then they were like, hey, ah script said lion. And then fuck. And then they quick drew them. They erase some lines and drew mane around its head. Yeah. Yeah. um So she she comes across a majestic lion that she sees some of herself in before seeing it get shot by poachers and then being shot herself in the fucking head.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, she gets shot in that. And we can see from this standard panel. Now we can see very obviously. And we've been reading the X-Men. We know this is a. Oh, it just raised my skull.
00:35:48
Speaker
Glancing blow off her forehead. And you can see it from the like they make it clear in the image. And it's like, come on, stop doing like you really have to stop doing this. This is. Oh, thank God it bounced off the ah tense skin of my temple. Thank God I was ah clenching my jaw at that moment. Otherwise, it would have gone straight into my brain. Yeah, she's dead. ah We see those damn racist twins she beat up, I guess, an issue or two ago, grinning smugly with a rifle in their hands.
00:36:21
Speaker
I hate these guys already. ah you You gotta to admit, they're very hot. that they They remind me of ah ah the two characters and cruel intentions. i sh Sure.
00:36:40
Speaker
i can see that. As the X-Men talk through their plan to catch a murderer, Rachel suddenly recognizes a mysterious psychic presence in the restaurant who's struggling to act human as he orders a sandwich.
00:36:54
Speaker
It's the just beyond her stuff. He's here, but none of the X-Men believe her stupid. Also... Kurt meets with Father Bowen. Father Bowen is back. Father Bowen. I love to see this. Keeps popping up.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah. is Kurt meets with him because the Beyonder has him freaking out about his Catholicism. He's kind of like it's it's it's Claremont ringing.
00:37:18
Speaker
any everything he can out of the Beyonder while also kind of showing how dumb the Beyonder story is, right? Like by being smart about the Beyonder, he's telling us, the reader, the Beyonder stuff is stupid. He's doing his best to actually integrate it, but clearly because he was told to plug this character in. And it's and it's Kurt saying, how...
00:37:42
Speaker
how All right, I believe in God, but this guy is God. And if he's not God, he's more powerful than God because he can make and control and create and destroy the universe. Right. And if he is God, in it he sucks. If he is God, he sucks. And if he's not God, then what's the point of God?
00:38:02
Speaker
And that's a really smart point that somebody should have brought up to ah Jim Dupid. before he fucking wrote Secret Wars 2 so that he just doesn't do it.
00:38:17
Speaker
Because it's it's it's ridiculous, right? it is I don't know if this is his intention or not, but it's pretty cli Chris Claremont explaining pretty succinctly why this Beyonder stuff is clearly an ego project that breaks the reality breaks the reality of the Marvel Universe. nothing Nothing would ever make sense in the Marvel Universe again if this character existed.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um Kurt Ruppert. Kurt Ruppert. Breaks Secret Wars 2 wide open. um Also, we've got another instance of Claremont misusing the term organic.
00:38:56
Speaker
He doesn't know what it means, right? He doesn't know what it means! He's... the The Beyonder's looking at a sandwich and says it it's made of both organic and inorganic material and they're consuming it.
00:39:12
Speaker
Right. Okay. He doesn't know what a sandwich is. There's inorganic material in a sandwich. There is water and salt and fucking the trace minerals that are in anything.
00:39:25
Speaker
If the Beyonder could see the molecular structure of everything, he's seeing water, salt, and minerals in literally everything. It wouldn't be worth commenting on. Everything else in a sandwich is organic.
00:39:38
Speaker
What was the last... Was it wood yeah thought he thought was inorganic? He doesn't understand what it means. he does He could be talking... There's a toothpick in the sandwich.
00:39:50
Speaker
but you Don't eat that. if you think And a toothpick's organic! Could be one of those plastic toothpicks I get. Maybe it's a rock sandwich.
00:40:04
Speaker
ah Yeah, we don't know what the X-Men really eat. right. That night, we see some goons planting a device in a locked Columbia University office.
00:40:15
Speaker
The muties as good as dead, they say as they activate it. as they activate well They've kind of got a greaser. so like ah The muties fucking, the mutie is as good as yeah muy's ja and dead.
00:40:26
Speaker
It's so funny. cause all right they're clearly If they're in x Xavier's class, they're taking an advanced genetics course. Right. And yet they're talking like a bunch of greasers. like Hey, you guys. Hey, we got to kill these muties, see? Come on. We got we got an anti-psychic device here. You got to be careful. Hey, do you squares remember which locus on the friggin' genetic strand expresses CYPD26 asked for, Allel?
00:40:54
Speaker
If not, I'll cream yous.
00:40:58
Speaker
that one That was impressive. but um Meanwhile, the X-Men stand around wondering where the mysterious killer could be. see that in what way are they qualified? yeah ah We don't know where to look. We don't have any any way of doing this.
00:41:17
Speaker
Rachel and Rogue find a boy being mugged, but after rescuing him, find out that he loves Nimrod and hates mutants. Yeah. Dang it. We shouldn't have saved this guy. It's either here or a little bit later where somebody's like, Rachel threw her psychic shock room at somebody. And I don't. S-H-O-C-K. shock. Shock.
00:41:39
Speaker
Ram. Yeah. Like a like a like an electric shock and then ram. That's nothing. I was just reading that as like, that's what they're calling psychic bolts now. Shock. Ram that shocks you.
00:41:51
Speaker
There is. A weapon called a chakram, a chakram, like C-H-A-K-R-A-M. That is like a a circular like sort of boomerang thing. oh But like, what the f- What is he- Is that what he's trying to say?
00:42:08
Speaker
Anyway. Kitty checks the college and despite dealing with more stupid Beyonder stuff, actually finds the killers! How- Why is she the only one checking the college?
00:42:21
Speaker
Everyone else is just sitting outside of the steps smoking. Yeah. She's like, have we tried inside? Have we tried going inside? Kitty tries smoking a cigar in this issue. Yeah, she doesn't like it, though. no I think she inhales, which is, think she you you're not supposed to do that.
00:42:37
Speaker
There's several puffs, so she must inhale a couple times, too. She looks like Pinocchio. ha ha!
00:42:46
Speaker
So Darren to science lab talking about crime. When Kitty notices in them, they mace and chloroform her. Do you know that chloroform doesn't make people pass out? You told me this, that it's not the chemical. It's just it shuts off. It stops the oxygen from going in. Yeah, it's just it's it helps block the oxygen. So it's just you have to hold chloroform over somebody's face long enough for them to be deprived of oxygen. Like you would do this. It would do the same thing if you just like choking somebody out.
00:43:16
Speaker
but Yeah, if you just held their nose and mouth closed. did That'll save you guys on your chloroform bills. shit Yeah, it doesn't matter how much you use, you're not going to knock about any quicker. You could probably use water, too. That would work just fine, too.
00:43:32
Speaker
She also, right before she gets maced, she does ah use a racial slur here. She does the old like, hey, don't call me a mutie. What if I called you this racial slur that would apply to you? She says her favorite word. Is this the second its time? It's the N-word. It is the second time she said the the N-word. I wasn't sure if it two or three, but yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
Come on, man. Stop doing that. Peter, Logan, and Rogue sit just outside talking about how rough the anti-mutant sentiment has gotten lately. I think that is the one thread that carries through all these issues. Like, as he's dumping out his notebook, we're still written at the top of the page is anti-mutant sentiment growing.
00:44:12
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah. Rachel, Magneto, and Xavier all walk into Xavier's office as Rachel explains that she's been seeing the Beyonder. In fact, he's in the room with us right now uh she tries to connect with them psychically to show them the presence she's seeing but instead this triggers the device planted on x xavier's desk a sigh scream sigh scream designed to amplify scream we all scream for sigh scream it's designed to amplify any psychic energy back at its source magnified by 100
00:44:53
Speaker
What? Pretty advanced stuff. so not For genetic students. ah Oh my god. She screams and lets out a psychic explosion of energy blowing up the office and sending x Xavier and Magneto out into the eyesight of the rest of the team.
00:45:12
Speaker
Rachel goes mad. She suddenly transforms her clothing and her face to that of her hound form and tracks down Kitty as she's being strangled by the criminals. Katie's being strangled by the criminal. It's not Rachel.
00:45:25
Speaker
Here's a question about that. When she's when she was a hound, whenever she flashes back to her past, which is our future. Yeah. Black lines up appear on her face. It looks like almost like tiger stripes coming in. Yes.
00:45:38
Speaker
Is that just there all the time? And she's she like psychically covering it up as she walks around because they come back right here. Yes. That is like, oh, shit. OK, she is. She is in at all times. She is.
00:45:55
Speaker
She hasn't said I think she said this explicitly, right? I don't think so. At all times, she is um projecting. her a normal face a normal face because she's so so ashamed of she doesn't want anyone to know about the hound stuff ysh okay she lets out another explosion deliberately this time and sends the thugs the advanced genetics thugs flying Rachel does yeah once she's just fucking blowing shit up she's she's going a little nuts here ah one tries to shoot her but she sends the bullet back at him full speed it's only stopped from going through his forehead
00:46:33
Speaker
by Magneto, who is wrestling with Rachel's power for control of the bullet. o He opines on his new philosophy of not killing everyone, and Rachel eventually relents. They get the heck out of there before the police arrive, and then we get four more panels of the Beyonder recapping what just happened. Cool.
00:46:52
Speaker
sweet So wit the last four panels are exactly, it's the Beyonder just being like, oh, it seems to me like Magneto has turned a new leaf because he just said these things. and then he says it over again. There's also a clear change in lettering as soon as he takes over. Like his first word bubble is definitely Tom Orzikowski's very familiar lettering. And then the second word bubble attached to that first one is a whole new letter. Clearly...
00:47:21
Speaker
dim stupid rewrote this yeah claremont's words weren't doing the trick yeah yeah anyway the end One ah funny moment that was towards the beginning here, right? x Xavier knows that there's a killer and he's like, oh, I got to tell the X-Men. And then we flash to something else. We flash back to the X-Men and Kitty is reading a letter from Aurora. She's like, oh, she really likes your new haircut and she wishes you well in your whatever you're doing. And the professor has to be like, Kitty, this is not the time for it. This is a briefing.
00:48:02
Speaker
And then he turns to the rest of the group and says, and so then i think that we should check the the dormitories or whatever. Like it was, it wasn't just in the middle of a meeting. It was plan. She was like, oh by the way, real quick.
00:48:22
Speaker
ah got a letter from the but She just starts, I imagine she just starts reading out loud from it. Like not even, not even just like pre preface the interruption.
00:48:34
Speaker
Professor X is like, so they, so I got a sense that somebody was going to murder somebody and I, I haven't been able to track them down. And she's like, Aurora said. We're in East Africa.
00:48:49
Speaker
Magneto and Lee Forrester are there. And I imagine if you were, if you were just reading the X-Men, right? If you're reading yeah X-Men 195 and then you went and picked up 196, you'd be like, what the fuck?
00:49:03
Speaker
What the fuck is happening? Why is Magneto here? And why is he with his Oh, right. All the other Magneto stuff we've seen has been going on in New Mutants. Has been going on in New Mutants. And then in switch happens in Secret Wars.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah, super weird shit. So weird. That's so funny. Also, this issue ends, the Magneto-Rachel showdown ends with one of my least favorite tropes.
00:49:32
Speaker
And I know I've said this about other tropes. I guess I'm not a fan of tropey writing. um One of my least favorite tropes in any storytelling, which is the, what are you waiting for? Just do it. If you're going to kill me, then kill me. And then like,
00:49:47
Speaker
leaning his head into the gun kind of thing magnino does that he's like oh fine if you want to if you want to kill him so bad go ahead and kill go ahead go ahead i'm not even fighting you anymore do it do it fine you go ahead and then of course she drops it and then her shoulders slink and it's like yeah yeah i fucking hate i fucking hate that i hate it it happens so often in storytelling Yeah, yeah.
00:50:14
Speaker
And it's always like... In real life, that person will shoot you. Well, do it. would Do it. Yeah, that's the whole point. You had to stop them because they were about to do it, right? like yeah Why don't we continue our podcast with Uncanny X-Men number 197. All right, do it you won't do it.
00:50:42
Speaker
episode over i to save arcade there's a question mark then an exclamation point then another question mark arcade arcade Chris Claremont, writer, John Romita Jr., and Dan Green, artists, Tom Orzakowski, letterer, Gwyneth Oliver, colorist, Ann Nocenti, editor, and James Dean, editor-in-chief. Interesting. It's the sausage one, though, not the actor.
00:51:10
Speaker
Oh, okay. They got him. Release date, June 11th, 1985, cover date, September cruiser out What?
00:51:18
Speaker
aboard a shiar cruiser out in space what Colossus bursts in on Peter Rasputin sitting on Kitty Pride's bed. Turns out this Peter is an imposter. And so is Kitty revealing herself to be a brood queen. but She chases Colossus out of the room to where Zaji is waiting. What? you what Until she turns into a walking corpse. What?
00:51:44
Speaker
Suddenly back on the Ust-Ordinsky Collective, that's his home, you remember, he rushes to save his little sister from a tractor, only to see little Ileana Rasputin transform into a demon.
00:51:55
Speaker
I'm losing my freaking mind here. What the fuck is happening? I don't know what's happening. Each one of them blames Peter for their suffering. They reach out to him.
00:52:07
Speaker
And he wakes up. Oh, my God. Oh, my Don't do that to me, dude. Don't do that to me. I ah i was already in the middle of calling 911. Hold on. Everything. do Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. um ah False. False alarm.
00:52:21
Speaker
No, please. No, you don't. Colossus is OK. I think I think they're going to send a new somebody just to make sure. OK. We can explain it to him when they get him. OK.
00:52:33
Speaker
Peter ruins another pair of pajamas as he steals up in a panic. Yeah, again. But wait, he's not in his bed. What? Don't do this to me again, Pat!
00:52:44
Speaker
And why is Kitty sleeping in a bed next to him? end up calling again. Where are they? Put down the phone. Because Matt, they're in murder world, of course.
00:52:57
Speaker
Damn it. We learn as our kid bursts through the door. Skip to the next issue. I'm done. Let's skip it. You need this guy so much.
00:53:08
Speaker
In Anchorage, Alaska, Scott Summers gets ready to leave, responding to a summons from Moira McTaggart. Oh, wait, no. Remember her? That's all normal. Yeah. There's a touching scene where Madeline reminds him of his duties to her and their unborn child, and they embrace while he tells her how scared this makes him. Yeah, it's really sweet. She's kind of just like, hey man, you're not just an X-Man anymore now. You're a husband and a father.
00:53:33
Speaker
She's like, you can't just go running off all the time. I know you have like your duties, but you also have duties to us. And he's like, I know. He's like, i I know I just, I'm scared of this, but I'm here for you.
00:53:47
Speaker
So, Pat, yeah no you get mad at me when I do this, but it just made me think a really bad thing for Marvel Comics would to do would be to have then Scott completely step out of character and abandon his family.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah. Within the next like year. That wouldn't happen because that'd be stupid. We'll find out later that he just brings her along. yeah Yeah. That's his answer to the immediate situation. She just hangs out in the Xavier mansion completely alone. Well, because again, what they're not going to do.
00:54:25
Speaker
is have Scott Summers abandon his family to go be a superhero again and just like completely abandoned them and abandoned them totally and completely abandoned them. Matt, just because i feel like i have to warn you once in a while, you're getting into really obvious territory again you're just saying. You get so mad at me for doing this, but it's just like, I i want to talk. I'm trying to teach our listeners a little something about the mechanics of storytelling. Yeah, we know. Save it for your masterclass. You you know.
00:54:54
Speaker
But it's not all the, not... All right, yeah, let's keep moving.
00:55:01
Speaker
Back at arcades? He explains to Colossus and Kitty over breakfast that Dr. Doom has taken a hit out on him. Again, we did this. We did this.
00:55:11
Speaker
We fucking did this. No, Matt, he was in business with Dr. Doom before. and then he like insulted him. So Doom won the kill. then he insulted him and I think double crossed him. Yeah, yeah. But. We mostly did this. We just mostly did this story. Yeah, we did most of this. This is a shorter version of what we did before.
00:55:30
Speaker
While showing them all his X-Men robots, he demands their help, threatening their loved ones if they don't. Kitty decides they'll play along until they see what's really going on. Okay.
00:55:41
Speaker
After a brief interlude with Nimrod and Jamie Rodriguez, where some dudes try to rob a diner and Nimrod vaporizes them. Standard stuff. Yeah, it's the Pulp Fiction scene.
00:55:53
Speaker
We cut to... It's like Wallop that says, bad motherfucker. It really is. That's We cut to a simulation of nineteen forty s Manhattan.
00:56:04
Speaker
Apparently, Doom is somewhere in Murder World, and Kitty and Colossus have to get to him before he gets to Arcade. With the help of an army of X-Men robots, they fight a huge battle against a train that transforms into a robot dinosaur and a bunch of fighter jets. I don't care.
00:56:20
Speaker
All the X-Men robots die in the battle, leaving Colossus to brood to Kitty about whether or not he was worthy of Zashi's sacrifice. Oh, it's cool. All right. It ends in ah an emotional denouement about something I don't care about.
00:56:34
Speaker
Then Dr. Doom swoops in in one of those jets and crashes into a nearby building. It's fucking like, it's like fucking Darth Vader and the TIE fighter. It looks exactly like that. Yes. it's I think it's an homage. Like it's.
00:56:49
Speaker
Yeah. Colossus fastball specials Kitty up to the building and rushes after her. Okay. She was not ready for it. You go first. Yeah.
00:57:03
Speaker
When he arrives, he finds her dead on the ground. That's your fault, man. And Dr. Doom holding Arcade by the lapels. Suddenly, though, Doom short-circuits and falls as the real Kitty Pryde phases through him.
00:57:18
Speaker
What?! Turns out Doom was a robot. What? And so was Kitty. She swapped herself out with one of the X-Men robots at the very beginning so she could stay near Arcade. Oh, okay. right. She didn't tell Peter because she wanted it to seem genuine and also test his feelings for her. What? I'm calling again.
00:57:38
Speaker
But that one's real. For Arcade's part, turns out this was all a game he and Miss Locke were playing. She was in the Doom robot trying to kill Arcade for his birthday. Once again, they decide for some reason they can't call the police, so Arcade just drops them off back at the mansion. Every time!
00:57:54
Speaker
Every single time Arcade does this, no matter how many witnesses they have, no matter if they know where he is and where his murder world is, and the fact that he's an international assassin who must be on an FBI wanted list, and they're superheroes with ties to S.H.I.E.L.D.
00:58:12
Speaker
every single time! They're like, oh, man, he's got us again. Nothing we can do. It would compromise their identities, Matt, as X-Men. No, it wouldn't. You just don't go back to the mansion. You just can you just say, hey, i'm I'm Shadowcat. This is Colossus. We know where this international assassin arcade is hiding. And they're like, no. And and if if the police are like, we don't have anything about an international assassin named Arcade, you go to Nick Fury and say, hey, we promise this guy's an international assassin. Just go search his fucking warehouse. He's got weapons everywhere and probably dead bodies.
00:58:53
Speaker
That's true. they They do know Nick Fury. And it's not like they're big rule of law fans. Epilogue. My blood pressure, Pat.
00:59:04
Speaker
Epilogue, Matt. o cool Storm wakes up in the Serengeti. Apparently, the bullet just grazed off her skull. Fuck you. This issue sucks. it's I would rather he just have her appear alive again than say the bullet grazed me.
00:59:27
Speaker
Some buzzards descend on her body and she springs awake, fending them off. To be continued. This is the worst issue of X-Men we have read since the 1960s. That can't be true.
00:59:41
Speaker
this was It was pretty strange, but...
00:59:45
Speaker
there's also All right, let's list. Arcade sucks. Zaji sucks. X-Men. Doctor Doom is cool, but in the X-Men, Doctor Doom sucks. ah And it wasn't actually Doctor Doom. It was Arcade's assistant dressed as Doctor Doom. Yeah, this Cyclops thing is a good scene.
01:00:05
Speaker
Until we get, yeah until a couple months from now when we'll look back on this scene and fucking cringe. Rip off of Pulp Fiction. Okay, that was cool. They've already kind of done this issue before. They've done this issue before. Storm gets, it just grazes her skull. All of this sucks so bad. This is the worst instincts of Claremont all wrapped up together.
01:00:29
Speaker
There is, it's worth mentioning, it happens in every issue, but it is worth mentioning, they also touch on anti-mutant sentiment and how it's growing. Yeah, like barely, but yes, they do. A very, ah very very little bit.
01:00:44
Speaker
Let's move on to a good issue, Matt. Do you want to read me? and Uncanny X-Men number 198? Yes! yes Life Death 2! Good start.
01:00:56
Speaker
From the Heart of Darkness! Oh, bad. Oh, no. Bad start.
01:01:01
Speaker
Oh, no. I guess we're going to quote, deepest, darkest Africa today. a but we will have a lot to say about this. Yeah. look Let's get this out of the way yeah up top. It is East Africa. That's where our story takes place. And it is the Marvel Africa that we've come to know and kind of...
01:01:27
Speaker
Yes. yes not desppi africa despising the way marvel trees sit it is it is the africa as a monolith ah africa is a is a country and a a singular culture um and it is not to say we we we i want to be careful to say this version of africa is real It exists.
01:01:48
Speaker
There are villages like this. There are areas of Africa like this. But in the Marvel universe, all of Africa is a big desert with plains and poor people in a village that used to be farming and hold tight to their cultural heritage and their weird rituals. while And they're all very close to the earth and have special bonds to nature. and Yes,
01:02:16
Speaker
And they live in a place called... ah have some sort of mysticism. They live in a place called East Africa. East Africa, which is an incredibly diverse chunk of Africa, right? There's no there's there's no like pastiche that is just East Africa.
01:02:35
Speaker
Yes, correct. I mean, because you have you have farmland, you have coastal regions, you have ah urban centers, you have desert, you have plains, you have ah forest. you Yeah, literally everything.
01:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Anyway. we We will get more into this, but it is worth saying that right up top. And that is why we rolled our eyes at Heart of Darkness, because Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness was a big part of...
01:03:08
Speaker
Whether or not you think it's an incredible literary work, i I'm not here to argue that one way or another. um It was a big part of why people paint Africa with this broad brush.
01:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Of like a land of savages. And it's also Even the the wording, ah heart of darkness, comes from this idea where they, they this was a colonial term, ah deepest, quote, deepest, darkest Africa, which meant, number one, it is strange and mysterious.
01:03:45
Speaker
And number two, the people have dark skin. And not everybody in Africa has dark skin. All right. womb Keep moving. Just keep moving. All right. Produced by Chris Claremont and Barry Windsor Smith, Pat.
01:03:58
Speaker
Hell yeah, Barry Windsor Smith. He's back. It's a true sequel. What a fucking British name. ah Oh, it's me, Barry Windsor Smith.
01:04:10
Speaker
Of the house of the Windsor Smiths. Is that a British accent? That's a British accent. That is the the accent of a man who's called Windsor Smith. Boo, it's me, Windsor Smith.
01:04:22
Speaker
Tom Orszakowski is the letter. Innocenti is the editor. And ah John Blair is the editor-in-chief. Release date, July 9th, 1985. Cover date, 1985. Sorry, John Blair, 1790 through 1795.
01:04:40
Speaker
Once upon a time. was only five years old? I don't know. i don't know why I said that, Pat. I don't know what those dates refer to, and I don't know why I said that. Once upon a time there was a woman who could fly.
01:04:53
Speaker
Now I walk just like plain folks. Remember, that was the opening to Life, Death, The One. Once upon a time, there's a woman who could fly. Yes, upon a time, there's a woman who could fly. And then Forge told her, now you have to walk just like plain folk at one point in that issue.
01:05:11
Speaker
And this is Storm saying this. She's narrating. and Yeah, very good. Aurora begins the issue with this while she treks through a sandstorm in a generic desert in East Africa.
01:05:25
Speaker
I do later. We'll get into it. I try to pinpoint exactly where she is, but it's impossible. Yeah, it's a fictional land. well we'll We'll talk about it. She's been wandering aimlessly and delirious, recovering from a gunshot to the head and suffering from a concussion, thirst and exhaustion.
01:05:44
Speaker
She hallucinates herself with her powers restored, then in the arms of Forge, before finding herself literally fighting a pit viper. She escapes and crawls into a cave, unsure if she was bit, but sure that she would die quickly if she was.
01:05:59
Speaker
In the cave, she finds the X-Men that she left behind, including Jean. She damns them for taking her from her home and ultimately delivering her this fate, before begging Jean's forgiveness for letting her die.
01:06:11
Speaker
Wolverine offers to kill her if she's so afraid of living, but she's not afraid. Xavier tells her that she needed to leave home to grow up and that she would have perished with this land if she hadn't.
01:06:26
Speaker
She tries to object, but suddenly the X-Men are gone and Storm wakes to find that she's survived to the next morning. Yay. As she treks on, she finds a real overturned bus with a lone survivor. Yeah.
01:06:40
Speaker
A pregnant woman named Shawnee who is trying to return to her rural village after having been away so long in the city. She loves the city life, but the man she loved left and there's little work in the city.
01:06:52
Speaker
For the baby, she's returning home. They journey together, Storm reflecting on how her journey parallels Shani's ultimately returning to her homeland for an unexpected new chapter in her life.
01:07:06
Speaker
She thinks about how little she appreciated the gifts she had until they were gone and wonders if she would have survived in Shani's shoes. But when they arrive at the village, it's not the lush green agricultural climate Shani had described.
01:07:21
Speaker
Broken farming equipment is strewn about the desert landscape with one small green area in the center with a handful of houses. This scene is really cool. Looking at this plow is like they are small staring up at this almost unknowable machine like a ah like a Jack Kirby scene.
01:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's hulking. It's weird. You should mention Barry Windsor Smith is doing his own inks here, and he is taking his time with it. Like, it is extremely detailed and really well done on top of just being, like, his signature larger-than-lifestyle.
01:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They approach the village, and Shani reunites with her parents, and the village leader, Minari... Minari? Minari. M-J-N-A-R-I, Minari. Minari, sure.
01:08:14
Speaker
All of whom are being very solemn. They offer food and water, but Storm passes out before she can accept the offer. She wakes in a tent with Minari, who has been tending to her injuries, and informs her that Shani demands her presence as she gives birth.
01:08:31
Speaker
Storm scoffs at... She says, ew No, she doesn't. Storm scoffs at the ritual dancers outside, not understanding why she must act as a midwife. But Minari reminds her that here, this is the best they have. Trying to reach the nearest hospital would be useless. Shani wouldn't survive the trip. they They don't have the transportation. Yeah, yeah. So this this is notable. And i I know there's a lot more to talk about here. Yeah, that's kind of why I'm just going. But yeah.
01:08:57
Speaker
are ready but it is just this moment is notable because they're putting ritual dancers in, but they're also acknowledging that they're not saying like, Oh, we are, we believe hoping we are hoping magic will make her. Well, they're saying like, what else can we do? we we have a dance that gives us hope and,
01:09:23
Speaker
That's and the best that we have. They're putting this paternalistic attitude into the mouth of Storm, which I think is significant, where she's like, um maybe try a hospital, please. And they're like, you fucking think we haven't thought of that, dude? yeah we We don't have a way of getting to the hospital. this is, in some ways, this is them trying to cope.
01:09:47
Speaker
This is them trying to cope with the fact that this woman will probably die and Being able to tell themselves, like, we didn't do nothing, number one. And number two, this will keep people, you know, this might keep people calm while, you know, while a woman dies in front of them.
01:10:06
Speaker
Aurora does her best to comfort Shani and despite doubting her own skills as a midwife, manages to deliver the baby in a beautiful wordless page that cross cuts the delivery with the intense dance happening outside.
01:10:18
Speaker
it's It really is beautiful. Yeah. I don't know how else to describe it. it's yes It's so full of action and also, would like I don't know, it it has the vibe of we but welcoming life is how I can describe it. Yeah.
01:10:36
Speaker
we don't We don't say this very often because we'd be out of a job, but a job. Imagine this being our job. But this is an issue you should read, I think.
01:10:48
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Life, death, and then life, death, too. But the baby's not breathing. Aurora performs CPR. ah She performs adult CPR. Yeah, that's I don't think that's how you give a newborn CPR. but She performs CPR. The baby lets out a cry and the village celebrates.
01:11:08
Speaker
But the celebration quickly turns solemn as Minyari parts the crowd to walk out into the wilderness by himself. Storm senses what's going on, follows to plead with him not to kill himself.
01:11:20
Speaker
What? Minari explains, outlanders came through when he was young promising to turn their moage village into a lush paradise with modern farming technology things went well for a while the village thrived and the area turned green but overproduction quickly eroded the soil their livestock grazed more than they could afford and the wind swept everything away suddenly they were back in the desert even worse off than they had been before They'd been given the technology, but not the means to use it sustainably, and saw their numbers fall quickly as a result.
01:11:51
Speaker
The village went on producing just enough for the surviving members to live, which meant that with every new birth meant someone was missing food. Eventually, the village decided this is the only way forward. With honor, one member must go off to die once the new child arrives.
01:12:07
Speaker
They need to do this to maintain balance until they can grow their village with the care and experience it needs. minyari literally wills himself to death i googled who is this possible and google was like if you're feeling suicidal please call this uh but ah you know you you really you can't uh like you can over a long period of time but you can't just be or you're already sitting down on on the top of a hill and say All right. dot Time to die. It's time.
01:12:44
Speaker
Well, it's about time we get dying. Hitting that fiery trail. When Nyari welves himself to death and Storm reflects on what this means as another parallel for her journey, she can move forward, understanding that everything she had to this point was a privilege.
01:13:05
Speaker
She wasn't cast out of the X-Men or Mutant Hood just to die, but in order to stop that cycle, she needs to be the bridge between her old life and her new one, making sure it's handled with the same care and experience it needs.
01:13:17
Speaker
The end.
01:13:20
Speaker
All right. So... We read that one through pretty straight because this definitely needs analysis.
01:13:32
Speaker
Yes. And it's worth mentioning that if you're going to read Life, Death and then Life, Death 2, you should do what we did and read the Imperfect Storm essays by...
01:13:43
Speaker
Osvaldo Oyola, is that his name? Yes, Osvaldo Oyola um from his blog, TheMiddleSpaces.com. He's got yeah these essays Perfect Storm where he sort of argues that this is all. um what not only First, he talks about um the flaws of a bunch of white writers in the 80s writing black characters and writing about Africa. And he echoes a lot of the things that we've said about it. He also talks about how he uses a really interesting term towards the end, which he says, life, death is another one of those make do moments.
01:14:18
Speaker
We're even an admiring the craft of its formal elements. You can't help but wonder if orientation towards the text content always serve dubious hierarchies. What he's saying is you colonially benefiting white people.
01:14:31
Speaker
men writing about Africa and even if this has a lot of depth and cultural awareness it's still not better than black voices writing about black issues because right it's it's it's it's sort of missing it's it's not only is it missing that context it's also tropes tropes the The deepest, darkest Africa tropes and stuff. Yeah, it's got that sort of ah mystic Orientalism attitude towards it that just comes naturally in writing about a culture that you don't fully understand.
01:15:09
Speaker
Exactly. And Claremont is guilty of that with a lot of cultures. um But it is like it is like guy who doesn't know any better trying his best, you know? Yes. Yeah.
01:15:22
Speaker
And i think that is what Osvaldo is saying here, which is interesting. like These make-do moments, I think, was really interesting. So his argument is that this is a parable about colonialism, that Storm is sort of fighting the colonized version of herself.
01:15:40
Speaker
Yes, that she she's both somebody that was and we've talked about this before. Storm has every single background a black person can have. she yeah She's got her mother who's an Egyptian or ah yeah an Egyptian princess, a father who's like a civil rights activist and journalist in Harlem. ah She was caught up in a war in her it was it in egypt as a child was in egypt and then she she lived in harlem then she lived in egypt and then she lived in kenya as a goddess she was a goddess she was a thief on the street so he was a criminal she was like everything everything it's claremont gets the chance to write one black character so he's like i'm gonna put everything black in it right so this is the argument every black person
01:16:32
Speaker
here is that storm like a lot of black people or people from cultures affected by colonialism has connections to her pre-colonial culture just through right cultural traditions but also he has the mindset of someone who has been colon colonized having being so far removed from it. And is voldo Osvaldo, again, it's an incredible essay to read through, but he talks about how that is a common thing for a lot of subjugated cultures in in the U.S. and in the world at large.
01:17:16
Speaker
And he talks about how black people this story is, and Storm's story in general, is sort of about a person dealing with those two conflicted identities.
01:17:29
Speaker
I am not opposed to that read at all. But I do think it is worth talking about Storm as a character in her own right, in addition to her as a metaphor. um And right I think taking the story seriously as just...
01:17:45
Speaker
a a story about a character in the X-Men named Storm. There's a lot of interesting things to read there too. Yes. Yeah. This, she takes a journey here. And again, that those, that same sort of the larger metaphor applies to her directly as a character as well, because she's between two worlds right now where she ah lived in Africa. She lived as an X-Man. She's now back in Africa with that experience of, but,
01:18:14
Speaker
of Of having lived in the X-Men's world. Right. But in addition to that, I guess I'm also saying she's also just got the experience of a woman who had superpowers and doesn't have superpowers anymore. yes there's There's also a very literal reading of this too. Which I think is important. I think that i think the literal reading works. And I think that that is something that we also think i think need to tackle here first. So like if we take each element of the story as... If we we dissect this in ah a literary criticism way, right? Like each each element says something, right? So first she's... What are her symbols? First she's in she's in the desert. She's suffering from a gunshot.
01:18:58
Speaker
it's sort of her impetus for giving up, right? This is similar to her losing her powers, right? She's like, i I've lost what I needed. or she I've lost something that was important to me. i can just, and now I should just give up. I should just lay down and die. It's also her perception of her weakness, right? Like she feels like she's weak without her powers, the same as the gunshots making her feel like, I might as well not even fight this. I'm just gonna die.
01:19:26
Speaker
Right. So she has to decide, do I keep fighting or do I not? And then of course that leads to her fight with nature there's a sandstorm and then she gets bit by a snake or she thinks she might have gotten bit by a snake yeah the fight with the snake is pretty pretty literal for a metaphor her battle with nature I mean, so is the sandstorm, because she says out loud, she's like, if I had my powers, I would maybe be able to make this go away. Yes, yes, Storm. Yeah, okay, we would have gotten it had you not said that. Putting right front for us. But it is like...
01:20:06
Speaker
It is like, this is something I can't control. yeah go ahead. She also, and this is worth this is worth mentioning for the character development side of it, but she wrestles with the snake, she throws it away, she goes to the cave, she doesn't die, she comes back out. She sees the snake again, and instead of fighting it, she...
01:20:25
Speaker
wills it to back down. She gives it ah a look and is like, hey, we understand each other. We're both beings of nature. It's a little ridiculous, but also it is her finding that first leg up that she needs.
01:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think so, and I think, um and and it's a, it's a threshold he's a threshold guardian, right, ah in the in the the... Joseph Campbell. Yeah, in the Joseph in the joseph Campbell sense. He's a, the the snake's a threshold guardian, right? She has to overcome this...
01:20:57
Speaker
struggle both within herself and obviously externally and physically here before she can leave the cave right like that's that's pretty that's pretty direct right yeah so then the x-men appear to her in the cave this is her reminder that all of this was a choice she chose she chose to leave africa to make friends It's not like all of this was a cruel bit of fate that happened to her. It's a trade-off. I know somebody, ah I won't get any more specific than that, but I know somebody who has a very large family that is often upset because they're like, it's always something. It's always one thing after another. you know Somebody's always dying or somebody's going to jail or somebody's got a health problem or somebody's having a falling out with their parents or whatever. And and I always remind her
01:21:45
Speaker
Like, hey, that's the other side of the coin of having that much like love in your life, right? Yeah. And it's the same thing here with Storm, right? The other side of the coin, she chose to leave Africa, and it was worth that.
01:21:59
Speaker
Or that's the question she has to ask herself. Were these people worth it? Were the experiences she had in the U.S. and the rest of the world, I guess, were... Were the friends she made, were the lives she saved, were they all worth the suffering she's gone through?
01:22:13
Speaker
Does she still agree with that choice? Would her life be better if she was still a goddess in Africa who had her powers but never met Wolverine? Right.
01:22:24
Speaker
Would your life have been better if you never met Wolverine, Pat? If I had the opportunity to meet Wolverine and and turned it down... i know I know. Yeah.
01:22:35
Speaker
ah She chose to put herself in danger, right? Because loving and being loved was worth that. This isn't a cruel thing that happened to her, this cruel turn of fate. It's a trade-off for the things that she chose because they make her life better.
01:22:49
Speaker
And this is what... She hasn't realized this by the time she leaves the cave, but she's gotten enough motivation that that is the sort of elixir she brings to face her threshold guardian, right?
01:23:01
Speaker
She hasn't fully reconciled this, but this is her first taste of that elixir. Like, this is... this is This is what you need to move forward. Yeah. This meeting with the X-Men takes place between her throwing the Viper and her staring down the Viper.
01:23:17
Speaker
Yes. So i guess this is her first leg up, right? Is she has ah an imaginary conversation with the X-Men. And then she faces the kind of accepts some things. Yeah. Yeah. What the way you said. So then she goes and she see she sees the bus crash. She meets meet Shawnee and Shawnee has a will to self motivate. Not only is Shawnee trying to survive this bus crash where everybody died ah in order to save the life of her baby.
01:23:43
Speaker
Shawnee, unlike Storm, chose to leave her village and said, you know what? I want to go see the world and got on a bus herself and did it.
01:23:55
Speaker
Storm didn't. She had to, she waited in her, her comfy shrine in Kenya until professor Xavier came along and said, Hey, you should leave and come with me.
01:24:08
Speaker
And she said, okay. Right? Like, that's how and um that's how she represents it, sort of in this dialogue. Like, i didn't yeah yeah I didn't motivate myself. I didn't do anything. Xavier came and gave me an option, and I just said, okay.
01:24:23
Speaker
And also, Shani went to the city, went to the big city. She loved her life there, but once again chose to come back.
01:24:34
Speaker
Uh-huh. it And it's circumstance, right? the The father of her child disappeared and then she had some financial issues. She had to go back home, but it's not.
01:24:46
Speaker
She doesn't seem bitter about it. Exactly. Because she said like, hey, I could try to make it in the city where I love things or I could go back to where I have some security. Right. So Storm's looking at this and it's like, this is the person I want to be.
01:25:03
Speaker
I wish I was more like Shawnee. And also asking herself sort of this question, like, why is she like that? Why is she like that? And I'm not. Yeah. What is it that she's figured out that I haven't?
01:25:13
Speaker
And the rest of this issue will kind of be her wrestling with that question in a way. Then they see the plows. They see the village. they were that That all, I think, is is part of the colonial metaphor. i'm Maybe you can help here. I'm having trouble trying to i think this is where the story kind of shifts. There's... there's oh speech with Minari about making that connection between her between her two selves and right the idea like him describing how their village was colonized and slowly destroyed
01:25:53
Speaker
gives her like he he says out loud that she and this Oyala's point too right she has to be that bridge between the pre-colonial Africa and the post-colonial world because she's of both worlds The other thing I think is that this is where Claremont said, like, hey, I want to be clear. This is a story about the dig the harm of colonialism. Okay. And so he just has Minari tell the story about ah about yeah ah a group of people who...
01:26:32
Speaker
Came through, promised them the world, but didn't actually give them the equipment to... ah Or gave them the equipment, didn't give them the know-how to be successful with it. it's he does He does talk about this this idea of desertification. And I think that's that's worth talking about briefly, too, even though that's ah like ah like getting away from the metaphor and and the more literalism of it. Yeah, yeah. is um One of the things...
01:26:59
Speaker
This also happened in the American West. You know how people say like the plow broke the American plains, right? Because they were... The old dust bowl. um but the america But the thing is, America knows this because we already experienced it in the early 1900s. So if they did this, which they did, these people fucking knew.
01:27:20
Speaker
We know better. We know better by now. This was done in ah on purpose as a short a short grift. Right, because the other thing that the the comic doesn't mention here is the food that they were making wasn't for their village. It was shipped out as soon as they made it. like they They can't afford the their food, the food that they themselves grow. And this still happens all over the world.
01:27:50
Speaker
Worldwide scam Yes, is that there's all sorts of places that are told like, a hey, farm, and this happens, ah i mean, South America is, and is probably where this happens the most these days in various countries in South America.
01:28:06
Speaker
People are told, and middle middle USA, yeah Midwest and the USA, is like, hey, the way to bring prosperity to your area is to use all this arable farmland, right? To use... all your farmland, it'll bring jobs to the area, it'll ah bring bring past bring economy, bring but prosperity, and then these big corporations that actually own the farms pay the workers less because they need to make a profit.
01:28:39
Speaker
They pay the workers less than they would need to afford the food that they are growing. So, the food that they're growing gets shipped. This is like the potato famine ah was constructed the irish potato
Social Commentary and Cultural Reflections
01:28:53
Speaker
famine here's a good example there were other foods being grown in ireland than potatoes but the only food that the irish could afford were the potatoes so when the potatoes started dying the cheap food went away and they were too poor to afford all the other food that they were producing that was immediately getting shipped to other countries and that's why the irish potato famine happened and
01:29:17
Speaker
thousands and thousands and thousands of people died. This has happened so many places in the world. Anyway, that's just a little socioeconomic rant.
01:29:28
Speaker
It's yeah touched on here, but it's not part of the metaphor. um right Then... um It's through the birth of this child, right, where Storm sees what Shani was making herself live for, right?
01:29:44
Speaker
And this is where she realizes, hey, being Storm, being in the X-Men, being me, the decisions I've made, they were worth it. And... I want to live life. I want to go back to living life.
01:29:58
Speaker
I can't give up. I can't give up like this woman didn't give up. And because she didn't give up, she created something beautiful. Just like I was doing until I ran away. And then, Ginari, seemingly giving up, like, willing himself to die to save his village, gives her another perspective on giving up, too, which I think is cool, of just, like, hey, I could give up now and have absolutely no purpose, or if I'm going to give up, I could actually, i could find a way to at least make it useful. Mean something, yeah.
01:30:36
Speaker
um There's another thread here, which is Storm's emotions, right? Like this is the other thing we've been following is that because she controls the weather, she always felt like she had to ah contain her emotions because if she gets too emotional, she could cause like a big fucking hurricane or whatever and kill everybody. Right.
01:30:55
Speaker
It's never happened, but she's afraid of this thing happening. I think there's a metaphor also here to the way that Both women and black people are sort of obligated to be um the best versions of themselves at all times.
01:31:12
Speaker
Yes, always emotionally under control because the slightest deviation is going to get ah categorized. Yes, exactly. And blown up as if as if like, oh, you're just an angry this person or you're just an emotion... You're just an emotional woman or you're just an angry insert race here. um yeah, yeah.
01:31:31
Speaker
And so this is her experience and living a like, this is self colonizing, right? This is what people talk about when they say, when they talk about self colonizing, right? Is disavowing your humanity to fit with the white Western expectations on you because of your race or your culture or whatever. yeah,
01:31:53
Speaker
And this is what she's been trying to overcome, right? I do need to be a human. I do need to have emotions. I do need to be, I need to be Aurora Monroe. I'm not just Storm.
01:32:04
Speaker
And I can be that with my friends back home and not just like be here to die. All right. Do you have anything else to say about these metaphors? Because I do want to get into the anthropology of this so just a little bit because it's funny. No, no, no, no. You go. You are on a roll.
01:32:21
Speaker
Sorry. and Sorry. and No, no, no. i I mean that sincerely. But also, we are getting to your bread and butter here. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. i have a literature degree and of and a and an anthropology degree. But hey, they're both bachelor's degrees. So I am also totally full of shit. So just keep that in mind.
01:32:41
Speaker
So I wanted to see like where where is she? Where is Storm? She's somewhere in East Africa. Right. She was traveling through the Serengeti. So she's on the border of the Serengeti.
01:32:55
Speaker
Sure. The people that she interacts with, right? They have ritual scars. Okay. Shani has a bunch of like ah like a dot pattern on her face.
01:33:08
Speaker
right yeah on her cheeks. um and ah And all the men have long um ah lines scarred onto their faces. right ah So it's like, where... i was trying to find, where's a place where there are villages in the Serengeti Plains where there was ritual scarring, ritual scarification as a custom. And the only place I could find was in Tanzania. I was thinking, this has to be Tanzania because there's Just this kind of ritual scarification doesn't really exist in Kenya.
01:33:42
Speaker
She may be with the Warabayeg culture. Although by this time they wouldn't have been in the plains. But they they do do this kind of ritual scarification. It also could be the Maasai culture, but they don't do ritual scarring on women. They only do it on men. Also, the Warabarayeg don't have a chief or leader. They have like democratic kind of councils.
01:34:08
Speaker
And this culture has a leader. So this is totally fictional. um And also the ah ah the ritual sacrifice. Okay. Is completely removed from this, right? Yes. So the ritual sacrifice was just nowhere, right? So I was trying to find... i was i was even i was even going back to my um James Frazier, who's a lot of his stuff... He wrote at The Golden Bow, and a lot of his stuff is bullshit. But even went back to my James Frazier to see, like, does anybody do this? Does anybody do this one-in-one-out ritual? This balance of nature when a baby's born, the oldest man must die yeah ritual. Yeah.
01:34:46
Speaker
And they so fucking they don't. They just don't. They don't do this anywhere. This is nothing. He made this up completely. um The closest thing are rituals in like Sweden or India.
01:35:01
Speaker
Like Midsommar. The Adashtupa in Midsommar. Yeah, exactly. But that that's not like. because we need food for the baby it's usually because like we can't take care of ourselves we yeah we are a drain on the culture so and so this happened in some places in india this happened in some places in sweden but it it doesn't appear to have ever been a part of any culture in east africa or africa as an entire continent as far as i could tell again even fucking james fraser who loved to make up weird rituals about people killing themselves uh Didn't have anything like that. Didn't mention anything like that. Yeah, exactly. um But it is worth saying there have been many cultures in every continent, even other species, where a ritual is that an adult must leave the village as soon as they become an adult. And part of that is resource control. But the bigger reason is the incest taboo.
01:35:59
Speaker
Right. They're not sent off to die. They're sent off to live. Right. They're sent off to fuck. um Here's a question about the ritual, Matt. If a new baby is born, one adult leaves so that they have the exactly the amount of food that they need.
01:36:18
Speaker
But Shani came back. And then had a baby. Somebody else has got to go They forgot to kill one of them.
01:36:32
Speaker
I don't know. if Did I say was i saying it correctly? The Wabarabe egg. Wabarabe egg. There you have it, folks.
01:36:42
Speaker
Again, seriously, it's just Claremont and Winsor Smith making shit up. But yeah if we're taking it seriously, there are some cultures that if you're trying to place the X-Men in the real world, you could be like, okay, this is where Storm could be. But they don't none none quite fit.
01:37:02
Speaker
So overall... They get some things wrong. They have the usual level of Marvel racism, but this is a good story. And like with a short ultimately a good message about colonialism.
01:37:17
Speaker
I think so. I think when I don't know that life, death needed a sequel. i Sure. Like that as a concept is pretty weird, but.
01:37:31
Speaker
It's fucking good and it rules. It's it's a really good story and and it's really touching and and has a lot of... um Yeah. And it brings us to the next place in Storm's Journey.
01:37:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's got ah it's got a lot of depth. and i think that's yeah Good job, Claremont.
Plot Developments and Character Arcs
01:37:51
Speaker
All right, bat man, that was a lot. So now let's just take it easy and nothing else big and emotional is going to happen for the rest of this episode. Yeah, yeah. As we know with the X-Men, once one is really heavy and has a lot of cultural implications, the next one going to be light, fun. Maybe we'll get some some goofy characters that' like the hall like Avalanche or Pyro or something. Something stupid. All right. Can't wait.
01:38:23
Speaker
Here comes Matt. Uncanny X-Men number one ninety nine. The spiral path. Spiral. The spiral path. Spiral.
01:38:34
Speaker
Chris Claremont, writer, John Romita Jr. and Dan Green, artists, Orts and Parker, letterers, Glynis Oliver, colorist and no senti editor and James Franco, editor in chief. They got has canceled.
01:38:48
Speaker
They got him. Release date August 6th, 1985. Cover date November 1985.
01:38:56
Speaker
Scott Summers hey is back at the mansion and doing a little workout in the danger room. He's just looking at stuff. I can't stop thinking about this now that Daniel put this in my head.
01:39:08
Speaker
He's just looking at stuff. That's all he's ever doing. He's just looking at things. I looked at that. I looked at that. And I looked at that. Rachel tries to pull him aside to talk, but Moira gets there first and lets Scott know about Xavier's attack.
01:39:25
Speaker
This is the first time any member of the X-Men, past or present, is learning that x Xavier has some sort of injury. Yeah, they thought he And he's opium for the last few weeks. They thought he just, like, disappeared for a couple days and came back really into bondage. Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:48
Speaker
He went on a fuck vacation. ah za x Xavier will do that. of Among the Morlocks? It was Callisto that walked him back in. Freaky deekies need love too, as ah the immortal Tracy Morgan once said.
01:40:05
Speaker
That's the fictional name, right? Tracy Jordan is the fictional name. Tracy Morgan's the real one. Fuck. So apparently he's dying. Charles x Xavier, not Tracy Morgan. Although. Although. He's doing now he's still great.
01:40:19
Speaker
Apparently Charles is dying. He's in a show again, right? Sorry. Fuck. Yeah, yeah. It's very good. It's ah it's like it's very 30 Rock reminiscent. Because it's it's him and Tina Fey. And who's who's the other guy that's in Daniel Radcliffe. That's so wild. Who's been slumming it in television comedies. Because he's fucking millionaire now. He can do whatever he wants. It rules that this is what he wants to do. He's cool. like, me in a show with Tracy Morgan. He's so cool.
01:40:46
Speaker
right ah Anyway, apparently Charles is dying. And Moira thinks that it's the reason Magneto was brought to the school to replace him. Needless to say, Scott is pissed. This guy's been trying to kill Scott his entire life since he was a little child. yeah. yeah This man has been trying to literally murder him and his friends.
01:41:09
Speaker
Scott remembers the villain. Yeah. Cut to Washington, D.C., where Val Cooper arrives home to find Val Cooper sitting on her couch. what All right, I'm calling, I'm calling, I'm calling. the No, no, no, Matt, surprise. It's Mystique. oh Why do they keep doing this to me?
01:41:27
Speaker
and She's got a proposition. She wants a full pardon for her Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in exchange for their dedicated service to the U.S. government. okay Val Cooper is intrigued, but demands a trial run.
01:41:40
Speaker
Before she brings the idea to the president, the Brotherhood must capture and arrest Magneto. do Do you feel like at this point, do you feel like this issue kind of has a Dave Cockrum feel to it?
01:41:53
Speaker
I don't know why I think that, but as I was reading it, I feel like it's got a very Dave Cockrum feel. Yeah, I can see that. It had like it's got that sort of bounciness to it. big Sorrowful bounciness.
01:42:07
Speaker
Yeah. Does that make sense? Maybe that's it. I don't know. So I'll think that I'll keep that in mind as i as I flip through the sorrowful bounciness. huh Meanwhile, Rachel Summers wanders upstate New York, stalking the grave and childhood home of Jean Grey.
01:42:24
Speaker
Creep. there's i There's another tombstone there. I guess it's the family plot where they have Earl Grey. Nice. Very funny. You're a you're funny dude.
01:42:37
Speaker
First, she begins recalling her knowledge of Jean's death in the Dark Phoenix. Then her memories of her mother and father holding her in her own timeline and later herself as an enslaved mutant hunting hound.
01:42:51
Speaker
Rachel grabs the hollow, hollow empathic crystal contain the hollow empathic crystal. Gene's personality. here The hollow path, the crystal. We missed you. It's been so long. It's got her essence inside.
01:43:06
Speaker
So Rachel grabs it and makes a decision. She will reclaim the power of the Phoenix. She will reclaim the name. She will make up for all the sins of her mother and her future.
01:43:19
Speaker
Then she passes out and breaks the crystal. What? hall ris the She breaks the fucking crystal? It's gone, Matt. Damn it. Stop that. You need so many appearances. ah This feels feels like a character death.
01:43:36
Speaker
Back in D.C., Kitty and Magneto attend an annual remembrance reception at the National Holocaust Memorial. Accompanied by Lee Forrester. Okay. Okay. survivors of the Holocaust. Good thing she's there and not back at the mansion where Scott is because that could get weird.
01:43:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Former lovers. Yes. ah Survivors of the Holocaust rise to the podium to ask after family and friends they lost track of during the war and wait to hear a response.
01:44:06
Speaker
This was a real thing they did back guess, up into the 80s, maybe into the 90s. I was going to ask you, I didn't know about this until like... I read this issue whenever.
01:44:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. They would do like a thing each year where survivors went up and just said like, hey, here's who here's who I was never able to find again. um It's crazy.
01:44:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:44:34
Speaker
Kitty rises to ask after a great aunt of hers that her late grandfather was never able to find. unbelievably Magneto knew someone by that name. Okay.
01:44:46
Speaker
Then it is, i it's a little cheap, but at the same time, what a good way to, uh, endear the two characters to one another. Exactly. yay Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:45:01
Speaker
Then some other old survivors recognize their old friend Magneto, who saved so many people in Auschwitz. No one says his name. is i was looking so closely. No one says his name. Do we even know? Do we have a name for Magneto at this point?
01:45:18
Speaker
I don't think so. I think Xavier has called him Eric. That's what was wondering. Or Magnus. I know he was called Magnus, but that was very explicitly a pseudonym.
01:45:31
Speaker
That's when they fought Baron von Strucker, right? And got the Nazi gold. Yes. No, I didn't. You're absolutely right. He wasn't saying Eric back then. He was saying Magnus. So no one has said Eric to him yet, right? No.
01:45:47
Speaker
Who's Eric? Why did you say Eric? That's weird.
01:45:55
Speaker
But so they they do recognize him. say He saved so many people at Auschwitz, and they're able to give Kitty more context. Shava Preidman was in the resistance, and after the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, was sent to Auschwitz, where she died.
01:46:14
Speaker
Then, suddenly... Lee Forrester turns into Mystique and announces Magneto's identity to the room. She says she's part of a government team called Freedom Force. Her teammates appear behind her. Pyro, Avalanche, Destiny, ya Blob, yay and a woman named Spiral with six arms and golden armor. Were you like, who the fuck is this? I absolutely was. She rules there. She's got six arms and golden armor. And casts spells. She casts spells. She's got... a horned helmet yeah where could she ask for she's a friggin babe not not really she's there you go ah this is not the appropriate venue to make an arrest i don't think well i think maybe this is like them kind of saying these guys are still fucking villains ah sure
01:47:09
Speaker
But like this bad? Yeah, I see what you're saying. This bad? is Bad enough to destroy the Holocaust? Yeah. Magneto sends Kitty off to look for the real Lee Forrester and prepares to face down Freedom Force all alone. But soon the X-Men come bursting into the room.
01:47:28
Speaker
However, Destin, he keeps calling out to her teammates where they'll appear. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Colossus bursts through the wall, and right before he does, she's like, colossa there he's there. Pyro's like, all right, gotcha. She's like, Nightcrawler, there. And Blob's like, got him.
01:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Although... Colossus doesn't have to burst through the wall. Kitty says it out loud. She's like, use a door. is some Holocaust memorial. This is the Holocaust memorial.
01:48:04
Speaker
So Colossus on the list. Anti-Semite. And then finally, Avalanche ambushes Wolverine and Cyclops in an alley. Yeah. Which puts Colossus, Pyro, and Avalanche all on my list. They're all your anti-Semite. They're all in here just openly destroying the Holocaust Memorial. Yeah, yeah.
01:48:27
Speaker
Colossus pushes against Pyro's flames and clocks him in his dumb face. So good. Yeah, very good. Kitty faces up behind Destiny and Nerve pinches her out cold.
01:48:37
Speaker
Also great. And Destiny's like, I knew this would happen, but it's okay. like yeah yeah um oh i just i knew we would lose but the colossus thing is good well she's like she's like i know the ending of this and it's fine yeah yeah um colla the colossus thing is cool because he's like you killed me once pyro i'm going to beat your ass now yes yeah it was so good and then he he does exactly that yeah and then this might be my favorite uh refert
01:49:08
Speaker
Favorite. Yeah. Kurt Ripper. Nightcrawler strains himself to teleport blob up to the top of the Washington monument and then poured away. Just leaves them there. yeah Very good. Just that's the way to deal with blob. Just put it on.
01:49:28
Speaker
Avalanche standing over his handiwork after taking care of Wolverine and Colossus is knocked the fuck out as Rogue flies in. Yeah. Yeah. She's just, yeah. and Everybody just forgot about Rogue. I was just have to say, people keep forgetting about Rogue. Villains to keep being like, we're winning. And then Rogue shows up and just kills, like crushes everybody. ah Right. And same with the X-Men, right? The X-Men keep being like, well, yeah. Rogues in trouble, I guess. And then she just absolutely destroys everybody.
01:49:59
Speaker
She's invulnerable. She's got super strength. She can fly. And on top of that, she can absorb people's memories and powers. Like you've just you've created a Superman.
01:50:12
Speaker
Meanwhile, Spiral and Mystique go after Magneto. Magneto attempts to shield himself with a metal table, but Spiral uses some kind of spell to transform it into tape or something to wrap him all up. yeah it's One of those like ribbons from the Roy Thomas era that constricts itself around. It's the Crimson Bands of Ciderac.
01:50:34
Speaker
He breaks free, but Spiral casts the spell to neutralize Magneto's powers. That's convenient. And Mystique puts a gun to his head. Imagine putting a gun to Magneto's head. Yeah, it seemed like it would be threatening.
01:50:48
Speaker
Then Spiral suddenly falls to the ground, revealing Cyclops behind her. god Mystique is alone, left to face Wolverine's claws right upside her head.
01:50:58
Speaker
Got her. Cyclops is like, let's leave these guys for the police. But Mystique is like, we are the police. This is a legal arrest of an international criminal. In response, Magneto gives himself up and is put into handcuffs.
01:51:12
Speaker
To be continued. What? So. Cool. Yeah. Again, it still feels like. ah So this is this is sort of building to something like this is building on something That we've seen for a while, which is there's some connection between Val Cooper and Mystique. Like Mystique is trying to like weasel her way into that world. Right. To the to the point where she had the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants headquarters secretly buried deep in the Pentagon. In the Pentagon, yeah. Because she was Undercover's Raven Darkholm and like Val Cooper's assistant. Yeah, yeah.
01:51:54
Speaker
But it also the like Kitty and Magneto visit the Holocaust Museum very much feels like a this fell out of my notebook. ah Chris Claremont shaking stuff out of his notebook thing, right? Like just yeah another note in his notebook. He went there. He recorded the scenes and he was like, I i got to write about this.
01:52:14
Speaker
It's like when John Byrne put the West Edmonton mall. so solemn Two places, both two places that don't want you to play Pokemon Go in them. that's Jesus Christ.
01:52:31
Speaker
Remember that? Oh, goodness. So um there's some some notes about this. This is funny. first of all when moira's telling scott that magneto's dying scott's response is i don't believe you oh yeah they're learning but learning how many times does this guy gotta tell people he's dying and he's not dying for them to be like no he's not he just says no but no here matt tell me tell me professor xavier's dying Hey, ah Pat, all right, are you sitting down? Because this is a kind of a serious thing.
01:53:18
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. All right. Charles Xavier, he didn't want anybody to know about this. He's been keeping it to himself because he you know he's trying to be strong for the team. and yeah Professor Xavier's dying.
01:53:39
Speaker
No.
01:53:48
Speaker
girl he's great uh he does say i don't believe you at some point too which is fun it's like yeah yeah of course you don't you have no yeah your experience tells you that professor xavier is never dying he's always lying about it yes it's this isn't like a like denial as a stage of grief this is denial as a survival as a learned behavior yes yeah yeah As a rational response.
01:54:17
Speaker
Is were just a sham doctor? Like what, what did he do that gave x Xavier two days of relief? And then he wasn't allowed to think
01:54:31
Speaker
you'll be fine. Just get addicted to opium and die.
01:54:41
Speaker
That's that's my prescription. um All right, so Spiral. Yeah, who, what, who, what?
01:54:51
Speaker
Who? You just got to wait. ah When are we reading the Longshot miniseries? I think we're doing it. i think i Who? There's a miniseries that has just been published or it's in the middle of being published um called Longshot. It's written by Ann Nocenti.
01:55:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And it's drawn by Art Adams, I think. Oh, shit. And we are not reading it in, like, timeline order. Because the only real thing that we see from it, the the biggest thing that we see from it is Spiral.
01:55:31
Speaker
um And all you have to know is, at this point, is dimension-hopping...
01:55:39
Speaker
bad guy she's an an antagonist she can hop dimensions who is stuck or who is in this dimension for a purpose but as but in she's like kind of biding her time at the moment um you'll also need to meet a guy named mojo i think before we get to the line Before we get to the long shot.
01:56:03
Speaker
Mini series. But that'll be. Looks like it's on a schedule. On our schedule right now for October of this year. So in like three months. You'll find out the origins of this lady. And who a person named long shot is.
01:56:18
Speaker
Very exciting. all right, Pat. We are coming to the end of this. Do you want me to read you the last issue of today? It's Uncanny X-Men number 200. And Pat, it's called The Trial of Magneto. Whoa.
01:56:38
Speaker
Can you believe it? Yes. Yes. I do want you to read this to me. Okay. This. Sorry, Matt, but I have to say it. You know I have to say it. This is not truly issue number 200 of the X-Men. Oh my God. This is really, if unless you want to count reprints of old issues as new issues, which I would not.
01:57:03
Speaker
Certainly. This is issue 168. Okay. Yeah, you're right.
01:57:13
Speaker
yeah New X-Men stories in the uncanny continuity.
01:57:20
Speaker
All right. Well, please proceed. Chris Claremont, writer, John Romita Jr. and Dan Green, artists, Glynis Oliver, colorist, Tom Orzakowski, letter, and no senti editor and James Iridale, editor in chief.
01:57:36
Speaker
Wait, did you notice? I just
Magneto's Trial and Legal Considerations
01:57:38
Speaker
noticed this. They actually misspell his name is in the credit. Jim Schoder. Jim Schoder. Jim Schoder.
01:57:46
Speaker
Very good. ah James Aradale, 1790 to 1799. Release date. He was nine years old? I don't know why I said that.
01:57:58
Speaker
I don't know what those dates were. i just keep saying dates and I don't. Release date, September 10th, 1985. Cover date, December 1985. Magneto.
01:58:08
Speaker
magneto marches and shackles to his trial in front of the international criminal court in paris he's like walking through like a castle dungeon it's like i don't think is that one yeah yeah he's like are these the catacombs
01:58:24
Speaker
um as a newscaster neil neil conan Yeah. Can't forget his name. He just mentioned all over the this issue.
01:58:35
Speaker
He's a real actual, and he was a real actual NPR journalist at the time. And he just keeps saying his name. He says it five times in this. I'm Neil Conan. I'm Neil Conan. This is Neil Conan.
01:58:49
Speaker
from neil conan he just keeps saying it it's like okay dude which is there's i i would say about half of this issue the narrow about half of this issue's narration is just done through newscasts yeah which is really cool and there's a few parts where you just can't like functionally you need narration there's no reason a newscaster would say it but if it can be told through a news report it is it's a So the newscaster narrates Magneto's backstory and sets the scene out front. This includes, crucially, Alpha, the ah ultimate mutant, turning Magneto into a baby.
01:59:28
Speaker
Yes. Very important that the... way I didn't think it would be. I thought it was just a joke that they would yeah include him being turned into a baby. But it turns out to be relevant as we go through the issue. Unbelievably, Magneto being turned into a baby is deeply, deeply relevant.
01:59:47
Speaker
I thought we were fully past this. So, Sir James Jaspers. so ah sir james jasper's Readers of Captain Britain will recognize that name. not me. No, you'll well you'll you'll learn it.
02:00:04
Speaker
Fuck. um Episode 95, January of next year. it's like's been okay Stay tuned. right ah Search James Jaspers for the prosecution and x Xavier and Gabrielle Haller for the defense. Look out from the courthouse steps over a massive crowd of agitated protesters. Are you allowed to just be assistant counsel because you're a famous guy who notes about mutants?
02:00:29
Speaker
it I haven't found a place that Xavier isn't allowed to go yet. but
02:00:38
Speaker
There's no rule that says a a geneticist can't be part of an international criminal court. um Meanwhile, the racist siblings that shot Storm in Africa are watching this all unfold on the news, celebrating their upcoming opportunity to kill x Xavier Haller and Magneto on an international stage. who Who would want to kill Gabrielle Haller in addition to like Xavier and Magneto?
02:01:08
Speaker
What connection do all three of those have to each other? Huh. there was that one story where they were all together. What?
02:01:20
Speaker
Meanwhile, the X-Men find themselves returned from ex the X-Men and New Mutants as Guardian Wars to Paris. They quickly find some shelter and figure out what to do next. This is, remember at the end of those annuals, there was this moment where they're like, why are we in Paris? He sent us he said he was sending us home.
02:01:38
Speaker
Yes. And. Yeah. Loki sent them to Paris because that's where x Xavier is in that exact moment. Yes. This is happening right after the end of that series. Yes. Very funny.
02:01:52
Speaker
They just appear in the middle of Paris. They just appear in the middle of Paris. All in like Norse warrior.
02:02:04
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And with a giant winged horse. And then Rachel disappears them and leaves everybody there with the memory that they got to see ah george George Lucas testing out some fancy special effects.
02:02:23
Speaker
Um... A few days later in Poland, we see a beam of light cut through a fence in a military outpost. Looks very like a Cyclops beam.
02:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like an optic blast. um It sends the entire complex into a fiery blaze, you know, um because Cyclops is heat beams that come out of his eyes. if It's, you know, if the cops had thought about it for a second.
02:02:53
Speaker
Wait, this couldn't have started a fire because um a panel zooms in on a piece of graffiti in the rubble. Free Magneto, signed the X-Men.
02:03:04
Speaker
When the news goes out from Neil Conan, who says his own name, Xavier has a minor heart attack and commands the X-Men to find these terrorists. This is He does have a real heart attack. This is like that guy that wrote Black's Rule on his driveway. Yes! How anyone believe this? Free Magneto. Sincerely, the X-Men. What kind of graffiti is that?
02:03:29
Speaker
God, the Blacks rule guy is the that guy. What a fucking swing. That's what he thinks. That's how he thinks people talk. All right. Anyway, as the trial commences, Sir James presents the prosecution's case.
02:03:45
Speaker
Magneto has ah murdered a lot of people. But as the defense prepares for opening arguments the next day, another terrorist attack occurs in West Germany, bringing crowds of protesters to the trial once again.
02:04:03
Speaker
One even entering the building to condemn Gabby as a traitor to her race, meaning human beings. Yeah, yeah. But there's also like anti-Semitic slurs being thrown around, or at least implied.
02:04:20
Speaker
And somebody calls her a slut. Why do they do that? Yeah, that that's just got to be like a generic insult, right? There's nothing that she's... There's no connection there between her being a defense attorney yeah and the insult slut being her. I was wondering if there was like an anti-Semitic, like biblical Jezebel kind of like... like Is that an anti-Semitic slur that happens? Yeah.
02:04:49
Speaker
They are honing in like really hard on her Jewishness. Yeah. But unshaken, she presents her key point. Magneto, of course, was reborn when he was turned into a baby by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant and should only be tried for crimes after that point.
02:05:12
Speaker
The Tribunal of Judges, Pat, agree. They agree. They're like, what well, yeah, I mean, was so he was turned into a baby and then lived a whole life. They're like in the back room deliberating and they're like, look, Jeff, could you commit a crime before you were a baby?
02:05:34
Speaker
No, I can't. Good point, Margaret. So... This tribunal agrees with us that until you're a baby, you're dead. You're dead. You can't. Dead people cannot commit crimes. Can't commit a crime as a dead person. Is it true that dead people can't commit crime? is it true that deb be If I set up if I set up like a ah some sort of ah money laundering scheme or something or a ponte scheme or a tax evasion scheme.
02:06:06
Speaker
And I put it into motion and then I die. And then it goes into motion after I'm dead. Did I just commit that crime? Yes, that's still illegal. Yes, but am ah i the perpetrator of that crime?
02:06:20
Speaker
Or is it a perpetratorless crime? Huh. Mutant menace pod at gmail.com lawyers, all you lawyers who listen to this podcast, lawyers, lawyers. Tell us what you know. If you're not a lawyer, tell us what you think. I love this.
02:06:40
Speaker
ruling on before your if you get turned into a baby you can't it's so funny it makes me think of that five the five to four podcast about how the supreme court sucks and all the bad supreme court decisions oh imagine yeah i imagine them making an episode about the ruling where it was decided if you get turned into a baby your crimes go i imagine they would be in support of it because uh they're all prison abolitionists but like the lawyer right for this trying to like is there like trying to like like deconstruct this idea all right wait a second all of these murders took place before you turned into a baby by george so many people showing up to their trials and diapers from now on i'm a baby now baby
02:07:36
Speaker
you know Look, can't try me. Can't try me for. He's doing the baby defense. The baby Jeopardy.
02:07:46
Speaker
Baby Jeopardy. ah What is the square block?
02:07:59
Speaker
baby why oh The X-Men, they're nearby trying to pinpoint the next possible terrorist attack. They spot a children's hospital in town that seems like the perfect target and stake it out.
02:08:15
Speaker
And this is so crazy. Cyclops is they're sitting around like a table and Cyclops is like, this is where I believe is most likely that he'll he'll attack next. Yeah. i see old So they they spend hours staking it out.
02:08:31
Speaker
When we find the expat, they're talking about like, Jesus Christ, Cyclops has had us out here for three hours in the dark. How could how could he predict this? He's like, it's just what I believe.
02:08:44
Speaker
I just believe it. If I were a terrorist. It's just my belief. Back off. I believe this. Scott, are you the one?
02:08:57
Speaker
No, I just believe it. No, these are concussive force. They couldn't have started that fire. Yeah. ah
02:09:07
Speaker
Uh, hey, Pat, here's the fucking wild thing. they're He's right. In the middle of the night, a tank and several armored men fire on the hospital and set it ablaze. Tanks are also concussive force. They're not fire. The X-Men manage to stop the soldiers and put out the fire, but not before the same graffiti is on the wall.
02:09:26
Speaker
And more importantly, not before the police show up and assume the X-Men did all the damage themselves. By the next day, protesters are gathered and are even throwing rotten fruit at the defense.
02:09:38
Speaker
They worry what the crowd will be willing to do if Magneto is found innocent. Yeah. um One of the robot guys they fight calls, ah he says something about his thunder puncher. He's like, my thunder puncher worked.
02:09:56
Speaker
That's right. He takes out Colossus. Just call it your fist, man. It's just called a fist. It's called a fist. You don't have to call it thunder puncher. Are you Thor? Thor?
02:10:08
Speaker
Back in Westchester, Madeline finds herself alone at the mansion when Corsair and Llandra port in and demand to see Xavier immediately. thing They know he's dying.
02:10:21
Speaker
She tells them he's in Paris. They leave without giving any further detail and Madeline goes into urbanly labor from the shock. This is insane. Can you imagine just being a normal person ah whose partner has an exciting job and like that's the the extent of your exposure to it? Yeah. And suddenly two people aliens to aliens that, you know, yeah, and once like hop in and say, yeah
02:10:52
Speaker
your partner's Your partner's father figure is dying. Where do we find? Take us to him immediately. And you have to say, oh he's at an international court in Paris for his for her for his his friend who's charged with mass murder. The mass murderer. It's... it's very And then they just like dip out.
02:11:14
Speaker
They're just like, they they don't even say thanks or goodbye. They're like, you wouldn't understand. ah boy. So as the trial goes on, the crowd gets bigger, but the team notices a growing pro mutant contingent.
02:11:29
Speaker
Huh. Inside the court, Gabby grills Admiral Svarov, commander of the nuclear submarine that Magneto wrecked. Remember that? Making him look like a freaking moron.
02:11:40
Speaker
He's like, he killed all my men. And she's like, ah didn't you fire nuclear missiles at him? And she's like he's he's like, well, yeah, but yeah he threatened my country. So these were acts of war and not murder.
02:11:58
Speaker
Fine. who ah Magneto takes the stand in response, offering that he was only seeking peace. He talks about his growth and his new philosophy on how to achieve it.
02:12:09
Speaker
And the judge seems intrigued. That's another thing. um The Unabomber gets up in front of the court and it's like, look, I thought the way to peace was shooting a bunch of people or bombing a bunch of things and killing a bunch of people.
02:12:28
Speaker
Lately, I've started thinking, no, just be nice to people. Yeah, that's not great. All right, man. you've earn you've You've earned it. Acquit it. Meanwhile, the X-Men have found a spot of the spot of the next terrorist attack.
02:12:44
Speaker
The energy beam is mutant in nature, it turns out. So Rachel agrees to track it. That's a big deal for her. They find themselves in a boat riding up the river right alongside the crowd of protesters. Inside are several more armored goons waiting for them.
02:13:01
Speaker
They recognize it as a lose-lose situation. If they save the protesters, they'll just be seen as attacking a tourist boat. But what can they do? They fight! It's the X-Men. This is much better than letting Arcade go because you don't want to expose your identity.
02:13:19
Speaker
You know that you're going be seen in a criminal in this situation. Yeah. Whether you do the right thing, if you do the right thing. But if you do the wrong thing, people die. So you do the right thing.
02:13:29
Speaker
Yeah. This is the ultimate superhero question, right? This happens a lot in superheroes. They manage just fine. But as Wolverine notes, there's no sign of the immense power blasts that have been at all these other staged attacks.
02:13:44
Speaker
This must be a diversion, he realizes, just as the wall of the courthouse is burst open by an explosion. The racist twins burst in through the wall, calling themselves Fenris.
02:13:57
Speaker
Fenris. Fenris. Xavier's too weak to stop them, but Magneto stands tall in front of them, vowing to protect everyone in the court. They match powers for a while, but eventually Magneto's shields are overpowered. The two of them are just too powerful when they're touching each other. Ew.
02:14:15
Speaker
They got to hold hands or kiss or touch each other's butts in order to... Don't say Don't or. Don't say or there. I don't want you to have said or there. these are the These are the ways that they could, they have to be touching. So in order to be powerful. So they could hold hands. and my They could yeah squeeze butts. They could stick fingers in each other's mouths.
02:14:42
Speaker
Look, me and my brother are just too powerful when we're touching each other. That's why we're always doing it. yeah
02:14:55
Speaker
Rachel shows up and manages to stall them just long enough for Xavier to find enough strength to jump between Fenris, severing their bond. ah Jasper James, James Jasper jumps at the opportunity and grabs the girl ready to bash her head in with a rock.
02:15:14
Speaker
God damn it, dude. But Magneto stops her. He's out of his mind. He is crazed and he's just got a a big rock in his hand that he's about to bring down on this girl's head. Captain Britain fans will not be surprised by this, but I guess James Jasper in every reality is a fucking psychopath. Yeah.
02:15:40
Speaker
Magneto stops him, though. Rachel also picks up their origins. They're actually Baron Von Strucker's kids. The Captain America villain, Baron Von Strucker.
02:15:52
Speaker
And... Pat, where else do we know him from... i He was the one that kidnapped Gabriel Haller, right? That x Xavier and Magneto had to rescue her from. Yes, and he was going to so get he was going to reclaim all of Hitler's gold from the map in Gabriel Haller's brain ah to restart the Third Reich. But instead, Magneto stole it and made eight bases around the U.S. And a space center. Yeah.
02:16:26
Speaker
ah They'll be turned over to the French author. x Xavier suffers another heart attack just then, and the twins break free, zapping a hole in the riverside wall to make their escape.
02:16:37
Speaker
that's Sorry, that's how it's written in the comic. ex Xavier goes, they'll be turned over to the French author.
02:16:46
Speaker
Xavier and Magneto are washed away to a garden, and Xavier accepts that he's dying. He gives Magneto a pep talk, convincing him that he's capable of earning the X-Men's trust.
02:16:57
Speaker
And leading them, Magneto gets promoted from villain all the way up to leader. Skipped a few steps there, I think. Corsair and Lalandra finally find Xavier at that moment and teleport him to space to hopefully save him.
02:17:15
Speaker
But didn't this happen to him already? Didn't this already happen again? one Yes. Number two, what beautiful last words to leave this earth with before before two aliens show up and say, we're here to save you, and then...
02:17:33
Speaker
fuck off to the other side of the universe. Let him die. Yeah, like, man, you've totally fucked up my whole thing.
02:17:44
Speaker
yeah I just, I've been, I've been saving that speech. i have to write another one for the next time I die. It's all right. I've done it a few times.
02:17:58
Speaker
I'll just go to my, I'll just go to my, one of my, one of my several about to die notebooks. Yeah. The X-Men march into the crumbling courtroom with the armored goons they beat up, proving that these were the men responsible for the terrorist attacks. At Fenris' command, all of this is, I guess rightfully, grounds for a mistrial. Also, when James Jasper is like, hey, I'm fine with x Xavier and Magneto dying when they get swept away by the... The the head judge fucking slaps him in the face.
02:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. You fucking idiot. That has got to be a mistrial, right? If the head judge slaps the prosecutor, the chief judge slaps the prosecutor in the face and the assistant counsel gets teleported to space and the defendant saves the lives of every single person in the courtroom.
02:18:55
Speaker
yeah i I would say if Nazis ah physically attack your trial, So I think this is very clearly a mistrial. Like, I agree with that.
02:19:06
Speaker
But the fact that it's just over now yeah is I don't think that's how an international criminal court works. yeah it' just like Look, if everything gets all weird, the criminal just goes free. It's fine.
02:19:21
Speaker
yeah matter how many people they Gotta let him How many nuclear submarines they sunk. um Look, Magneto sheds a tear for x Xavier in our final panel and promises to keep true to x Xavier's vision.
02:19:35
Speaker
Would have been really beautiful if ah Xavier had actually died right there. ah Do you think... do you I think this was written as his death, if that's what you're about to ask. Okay, yeah. And I think Jim Shooter was like... Who? ah ah Sorry, I think Jim Stupid was like, ah no, he's in Secret Wars 2.
02:20:00
Speaker
I think, honestly, Professor Xavier... Is this too much of a spoiler? Professor Xavier doesn't come back for, think, until like 1990. What? Maybe 1991. what maybe nineteen ninety one Damn. Okay. um So you're probably right that he was like, all right, I am done with Professor Xavier.
02:20:21
Speaker
I'm done with him as a character. And ah I mean, it's it's really interesting. The fact this small thing, it was a small part of the issue, right?
02:20:34
Speaker
Xavier disappears to space. Yeah. Is a major like this is going to set in motion. This is good. or This is like the right drop but for everything that is about to happen for the next five plus years.
02:20:50
Speaker
wait So correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't read it, read it, but just through cultural absorption, I know the the points, right? It's the next five years are going to be defined by Xavier not being there.
02:21:06
Speaker
And then a lot of the 90s are going to be ah around x Xavier coming back. Right. There's like, yes, there's a bunch of stories in the early 90s about x Xavier coming back and then he's just back. Right. And then it's I see what you're saying. OK, the stories in the mid 90s are very much about Xavier's past.
02:21:30
Speaker
Yes, it it's like a why Why is Xavier important to the Marvel Universe and what is the impact of having a person as powerful as Xavier and as influential as Xavier in this on the Earth?
02:21:41
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah. Is, is i guess, like the theme of the mid-90s. But yeah, the late 80s is all going to be about how would all of these people function without the influence of Xavier and how the new systems they build...
02:21:58
Speaker
the new relationships they build, the new moral codes that they forge, and the way mutant kind falls apart.
02:22:11
Speaker
Sick. It was building to something much bigger relating to those themes um when...
02:22:22
Speaker
the Marvel editorial staff and the X, every X title just completely derails in 1991. Okay. okay um But I might as well say it here because it's not, it doesn't happen. So it's not a spoiler, but you know, Chris Claremont was intending from here to 1991, maybe 92 or 93 to build to a giant war between many different factions and,
02:22:52
Speaker
of mutants that all have different viewpoints for how you should proceed. And it was going to be a massive war and it would have been really cool, but doesn't happen.
02:23:07
Speaker
Wild. I love, I love when we get a little look at what, I guess what should have been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, how did you feel about these, these issues? I mean,
02:23:22
Speaker
While they do feel like a grab bag, it culminates in something fucking huge. Yeah, i I don't disagree with you, Matt, that it kind of feels like he is like you said, going into his notebook, finding any idea he wrote down and finding a way to make an issue out of it. But it feels to me like he's you not necessarily doing that because he's out of ideas as much as he needs time to bake some things in. So it, the slow progression of Magneto, which was seeded like,
02:24:01
Speaker
a long time ago i guess uh god loves man kills is when we first see this the that side of magneto like the the more um pro yes human not humanity but pro people side is that is that the case or is it when or did did secret wars one come first maybe it was god loves man kills that was first And then, well, yeah, it was God Loves, Man Kills. And then there's that i that issue where he fit thought he killed Kitty that we mentioned at the top.
02:24:35
Speaker
Right. And he swears to turn over a new leaf. Right. And there's there's other moments like that. It happens in Secret Wars where he's added to the good guy side. This is something Claremont, we know, and also it's clear, was building to that has to culminate in the trial of Magneto. I don't think there's any other way to have him um lead the X-Men unless he answers for his crimes. and Exactly. And somebody is able to say to the audience, here's how this works.
02:25:05
Speaker
but Right. Exactly. Exactly. Also, the other thing that runs through all of these issues, it's run through six months to a year of X related titles that we've read, is this rising anti mutant sentiment and how, how much worse it's getting than what had already been established to this point. Uh,
02:25:26
Speaker
And I think that that like that goes back to God loves man kills too, but it's, it's becoming a lot more intense recently. And it feels like, again, we know, but also it feels like it's building to.
02:25:40
Speaker
Something bad is going to happen to the mutants because of this anti mutant sentiment. Exactly. And, and so it feels like instead of launching directly into that street out of,
02:25:54
Speaker
what Dazzler or Kulan Goth or whatever. Right. They're giving that time to simmer, to sit and say like, oh shit, things are getting bad. Things are getting worse. And by the time it actually happens, you're already living in that world where everybody hates mutants to, to such a degree.
02:26:14
Speaker
So I think that interesting. True and interesting. I also think there's something a little more practical happening here, which is just he has to wait till Secret Wars 2 is over.
02:26:26
Speaker
Yeah. Like, he has to. Secret 1 derailed every story he was telling. And so he has to tread water. He doesn't want that to happen again. So he's got to tread water a little bit and just be like, all right, everything will be subtext.
02:26:41
Speaker
All my longstanding plots right now will be subtext. And I'll just do a bunch of one off so that fucking Joff Glooper cannot ruin this.
02:26:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And look. And it's successful. It's being successful. It's turning out successfully. Yeah. It's weird to get these sort of one off like monster of the week X-Men issues because it hasn't happened in the Claremont era or at least not like.
02:27:10
Speaker
several back-to-back like this. ah But it's good. They're good stories. They're good stories. i mean Except for
02:27:32
Speaker
oh Oh, Matt. Huh. If you didn't notice it's time for Pat's deals and steals and do I have a steal and deal for you today do you yes it's combining two of my favorite things into one matt do you know what if you had to guess what are two of my favorite things spider-man yes uh donuts close cheese ah spider-man and cheese what
02:28:07
Speaker
from Dorman's Cheese Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars Puffy Stickers and Album Set. Spider-Man and his friends in 24 non-toxic vinyl puffy stickers plus a 12-page sticker album. It's up to a $2.75 value. Yours free when you send in the UPC symbol from six packages of delicious Dorman's American Singles. These full-color stickers are great to collect, trade, and wear. So get Dorman's American Singles and get your order in soon.
02:28:41
Speaker
There is a little asterisk here next to Dorman's American Singles. Not available in all areas.
02:28:50
Speaker
But Matt, here we have Spider-Man holding a sticker album and a set of puffy stickers. It's really funny because all of it is drawn like none of this is a photograph. So it's a picture of Spider-Man holding a pack of somebody just drawing tiny Spider-Men. But then also big old pack of American singles with Spider-Man on the front.
02:29:18
Speaker
man you would love a pack of cheese with spider-man on the front i would mean they started doing those tasty cake packages uh with the x-men on the front because of x-men 97 season two and boy does that work on me so were you a sticker were you a sticker kid not really i mean ah so they they were fine i liked stickers did you have a sticker book no I did have a sticker book, but I don't remember when the stickers got into it. Like my first memory of the sticker book, it already had stickers in it. So I must have done it but when I was like too young to make memories. Yeah, yeah. ah Started the sticker book. And by then it was just like, oh, these are the stickers. These are the stickers that I have in the sticker book.
02:30:02
Speaker
You know, stickers, self-adhesive stickers. Here's a little history lesson. ah They were created in 1935 and they were mostly for rations or bumper stickers.
02:30:15
Speaker
For rations? Like you ate them? Wartime gas rationing allocations in the 1940s. yeah Oh, you ate them. But then, yeah, around the 60s and 70s is when they became like a thing for kids that kids like.
02:30:31
Speaker
And then this is, yeah, this is the puffy sticker variety. The puffy sticker. A new era of sticker. A new era of sticker. I never know what to do with a sticker. When I get a sticker...
02:30:43
Speaker
I started doing some bumper stickers when I was on my road trip. um Okay. Like buying them or putting them on your car? Both. but Interesting. Because it was just like, oh, my car has been to these places.
02:30:57
Speaker
ah Like I want to get home and look at my bumper and be like, look at all the places I just was. Yeah, yeah. And now that I'm driving around, now I have a bunch of bumper stickers on my car and I'm like, oh, this looks cheesy. but like Oh, I'm that guy now. Yeah, but it was like the getting home with them was cool, but...
02:31:12
Speaker
Now I'm like, now I just have them. But take a picture, tear them off. Largely. When I get stickers, I'm like, this is cool. But where the fuck am I even going to put this?
02:31:25
Speaker
I put them on my water bottles a lot. or I have, here's what I do. So I have my desk that I work at. And then I have my old desk that I don't really use. Sometimes I do like little projects or Legos on them or something. i I've been putting bumper stickers all over that thing. cool ones that I get and I don't have a place for it just go on my spare table.
02:31:46
Speaker
I'm afraid to put them on water bottles because you wash those with water and soap. So it's going to wipe the stickers off. Well, yeah. um Here's the thing about stickers, Matt. They're temporary. You can't get attached. So I've been putting them on my computer. So I'm looking at my computer, my my my desktop PC, and it's got a...
02:32:07
Speaker
Cinema Minson sticker from our friends who ah have a little video production company in Cinema Minson, New Jersey. um I've got a Forbidden Planet sticker from the comic book store Forbidden Planet in London. I know there's other Forbidden Planets, but this was from the one in London. i have Baron Somdi sticker that I got from a ah Voodoo store store.
02:32:33
Speaker
it was just they just It came free with the voodoo stuff I bought at the voodoo store in Louisiana. I have a Shirley Jackson sticker that I got at s SPX one year.
02:32:46
Speaker
with a shirt With a comic book about Shirley Jackson. I got an X-Men sticker from when we sent out all those ah flyers to different comic book stores. And we steal each envelope with a sticker. And that there was one that I thought was cool. And then I have a sticker, the Best Show with Tom Sharpling sticker.
02:33:01
Speaker
From when I went to ah the Best Show garage sale in Los Angeles. Wait a second. Didn't I reimburse you for those stickers? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
02:33:15
Speaker
Got an eye out, Okay, folks, well, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Mutant Menace. That's right.
02:33:35
Speaker
Here's some things you can do if you liked this episode. You can join our Patreon. and There's a link in the show notes. You can check it out. Patreon.com slash mutantmenace. You can go to our YouTube.
02:33:48
Speaker
i don't know where you listen to this, but probably wherever you listen to it. YouTube, Spotify, whatever. You can leave comments or like or share on social media with your friends. You can go to Instagram.com slash mutantmenacepod.com. And right we get, we have, uh, you know, unique cover art for each episode. You can share it.
02:34:09
Speaker
You can like it. You can comment there. Uh, you can join our discord, which also link in the show notes. And that's really the only way you can get to the discord. i don't know if you can search it. Um, What else can they do, Pat?
02:34:21
Speaker
They can tell somebody. They can just talk to somebody and say, like, hey, dinner menace. Your parents rad. Yeah, should be at the dinner table. It should be someone related to you, ah especially if two out of three of you in a family are already hooked. Look, if you are listening to this podcast and you are habitually sleeping with somebody.
02:34:44
Speaker
That person better fucking know about this podcast. Listen to this while you bone down. Well, that's not what I said, but they better know. You better have at least told that person about this cool podcast you like.
02:34:58
Speaker
Huge thanks to Krils Wilson for the music and to Julia Selle for the voice of Trish Tilby. Here's what i learned here's when I want to know, Pat. Yeah, what's that, Pat? If ah somebody wants to write into Pat's email corner, how would they do that?
02:35:13
Speaker
Oh, that's mutantmenicepod at gmail.com. Thank you for remembering. All that said. Yeah. That means our episode is over and we we have just one thing to do is say the catchphrase that we say at the end of every single episode of this podcast. Our famous sign off. Yeah.
02:35:34
Speaker
All right. As we say at the end of every single episode. Easy as pie, daddy.
02:35:42
Speaker
Do you want me say it again, Pat? Look at me in the eyes. Look at me in the eyes in the video. Stop. Easy as pie, daddy. o Easy as pie, daddy. Remember how we say that at the end of every episode? Easy easy as pie, daddy.
02:35:56
Speaker
All right. And as always, folks, please say thank you, that sort of thing. Easy as pie, daddy.