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58 - Alpha Flight #19-23
108 Plays13 days ago
Alpha Flight continues its hot streak on this episode, covering everything from time travel to haunted houses to old Fantastic Four villains. It's funny, it's dark, and it's an open book on the weird thoughts of John Byrne! Join us as we tour Canada in this 4th installment of our Alpha Flight series!
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
Marvel 616 museums. “I was a little bit of a rapscallion.” Grapes vs eggs. “You have a power that may yet save us…Gun!” Boning down to save the world. WHOOPS! Gilded Lily! Steven Devil. Diablo! Pink Pearl! A very cool skeleton man. The Bearded Lady with a tommy gun. Snowbird’s powers. Sasquatch’s powers. A very dark conclusion. A deeeeep dive into John Byrne’s psyche.
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - great theme song/hellos
1:30 - history recap
9:16 - Pat’s Email Corner/X-Men-related things
28:40 - Alpha Flight 19 “Turn Again, Turn Again, Time in Thy Flight…”
47:13 - Alpha Flight 20 “Gold and Love Affairs!”
1:00:30 - Alpha Flight 21 “‘Love Wrought New Alchemy…’”
1:11:33 - Alpha Flight #22 “Rub-Out”
1:28:12 - Alpha Flight #23 “Night of the Beast”/Final Thoughts
1:51:17 - Pats Steals ‘n’ Deals
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Write into Pat's Email Corner: mutantmenacepod@gmail.com
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Instagram: @mutantmenacepod
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Transcript
Live Report: Mutant Menace in Westchester
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Trish Tobey with W.A.R.C. reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
Introduction to 'Mutant Menace' Podcast
00:00:36
Speaker
Hey, everybody, I'm Pat Reber. And I'm Matt Aukamp. And say it with us, Daniel. Welcome to Mutant Menace. Oh, perfect.
00:00:49
Speaker
Matt! Ah!
00:00:54
Speaker
Sorry. God! How are you? How are you? i doing it all right i just had some pizza i just had a little bit of ice cream i got more ice cream waiting for me after the show and i got a little manhattan here so i've got some almond cookies waiting for me wow we're indulgent tonight yeah we are and there's a reason for that matt why because it's alpha flight episode four alpha flight fridays with matt and pat right this is what we do on our friday nights now
00:01:30
Speaker
ah Alpha Flight. We haven't been to Alpha Flight in a couple ah weeks. Yeah. ah Three or four, if I recall. And I'll tell you, I've been itching to find out what happens.
Unconventional Heroes: Alpha Flight
00:01:44
Speaker
You know, they have a cream for that. Remember when people used to make that that joke all the time?
00:01:51
Speaker
They have a cream for that. It's pretty good. It's a pretty sick burn. Yeah. so you have yeah So you've been itching about Alpha Flight. Yeah. And then I was itching to remember what happened in Alpha Flight leading up to this point.
00:02:06
Speaker
They have... um That they don't have a cure for. if you Oh, there's no cream for that. if you get If you get itchy because you can't remember things, that were... Look, everybody ages. Doctor, my brain itches.
00:02:27
Speaker
so what what happened? What happened when last we left our Canadian ah knuckleheads? Well, so here's... There should be a portmanteau for that. and I don't think there is.
00:02:42
Speaker
here's what ah Here's what I do remember pretty clearly, Matt. They are a bad team of superheroes. They are... I love it. This is what you've hung on to because you were not a big Alpha Flight fan until... Like, that unlocked them for you, is thinking about them as bad. That was...
00:02:59
Speaker
The realization that I came to. And again, we're unclear if John Byrne understands that or not. We might get some clarity to that in this episode. Buddy, this episode is going to be all about what John Byrne thinks about Alpha Flight versus what the reality of Alpha
Marvel's Event-Driven Storytelling Impact
00:03:15
Speaker
Flight is. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:18
Speaker
We're going to dive into his sick, twisted little mind. His sick, twisted mind. He's like 20% South Park, 30% family guy and it's Deadpool.
00:03:30
Speaker
yeah look
00:03:38
Speaker
OK, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah ah But it is it is a lot of fun to read this as there's there's two things to keep in mind. Number one, they're all just not great at being superheroes, but they're trying their hardest and they're good people.
00:03:51
Speaker
ah Most of them are good people. Most of them. With flaws. The other thing to keep in mind is that this is recently been reading like a high fantasy series where, you have a core group and they've all gone sort of their separate directions with a reason. And we've been following them slowly through those stories. And then at some point they always reunite, they tie back together and, uh,
00:04:22
Speaker
I've been itching to see that. They haven't gotten back together for a couple episodes. He's just an itchy guy these days. I am. Yeah, it's all over the place, Matt. and So I think, and we'll be able to talk this episode about how successful he is at it, but I think that is a very cool um superhero experiment, right? ah To say,
00:04:46
Speaker
hey what if we had a super team yeah that they They all basically lived their own lives as
Listener Emails: Personal Stories & Humor
00:04:55
Speaker
both people and superheroes.
00:04:58
Speaker
But when they really, when a big threat appears, they finally come together. And to do that like as ah an annual event.
00:05:09
Speaker
i think there's yeah yeah I think that's interesting. Yeah, it's again, this this is the framing that has allowed me to really enjoy Alpha Flight, because the other thing we're not getting away from is the words. yeah the The biggest impediment to enjoying Alpha Flight is John Burns writing. he just is endlessly wordy.
00:05:35
Speaker
and That's not going to let up today. No. So, so many words. um So where do we leave them story-wise? Last we read, Mac, a.k.a. Guardian, was dead.
00:05:47
Speaker
His grieving wife, Heather Hudson, didn't know, was feeling aimless for the majority of our last episode of Alpha Flight. And now she's the, she decided, you know what?
00:05:58
Speaker
I'm going reform Alpha Flight. I'm going to be the leader. Right. So she's been trying to sort of get the band back together without a whole lot of success. I think she she got Puck.
00:06:12
Speaker
She had Puck from before the word go, right? Right. But I think that's where we left them, right? It was her, Puck, and they were going to figure out how to get everybody else looped back in.
00:06:23
Speaker
Right. Snowbird, maybe? She tried to. I guess i she didnt think she like tried to get in touch with other members, and they either said no or she couldn't couldn't raise them. Right, right, right.
00:06:35
Speaker
We followed Shaman for a little bit. He was reunited with his daughter, Elizabeth, an archaeology student who he was estranged from. yeah And then we found out she has she's a mutant.
00:06:50
Speaker
She can absorb and redirect magical energies. Right. A very, very specific mutant power. Yeah, pretty situational. If there's no if there's no ah magical energies around, she's absolutely useless, which we'll see in these issues.
00:07:10
Speaker
but She found a skull in Calgary on an archaeological student expedition and uncovered an evil spirit that took the form of scrambled eggs. and Yeah, they fought some scrambled eggs.
00:07:24
Speaker
ah The biggest pile of scrambled eggs you've ever seen. It was huge and it was menacing um because what what happened? There was this 117 year old dude. she He was trying to push all of his family away, but his great granddaughter, she forced her way into his life. And then they got attacked by the great beast, Rannach.
00:07:43
Speaker
And now Shaman and Elizabeth, they got to go to the past for some reason. Yes. They said, if we're going to defeat this for good, we have to go back 100 years into the past.
00:07:55
Speaker
When when this this dude did something to piss off this great beast. Lucas. Lucas Strang. No, Lucas. It's worse than that. It's Lucas Stang.
00:08:06
Speaker
Lucas Stank.
00:08:11
Speaker
um So that's it. Yeah. North star refuses to come back. Snowbird confessed. She loved her ah old coworker, Doug Thompson. Yeah. And last we saw her, she was like, if you want to truly love me, you must see my true face. And then cut to like, we didn't get to see it. Yeah. Cut away.
00:08:31
Speaker
Puck's just being puck. Yeah. He's there. And then Aurora and Sasquatch are just, they're dating. Aurora is trying to separate herself from her brother. Oh, Sasquatch turned her into not a mutant anymore somehow.
00:08:46
Speaker
She wanted him to de-brother her. He intentionally de-mutanted her. Did he? Yes. We know that's what he was trying to do. Okay, yeah, I guess we don't know for sure. We just know...
00:09:01
Speaker
We know she still has her powers, but they're not quite as strong. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And she cut her hair and changed her outfit. Right. But we didn't get to see the outfit either. Oh. So there's a lot. there's There's a lot to dig for here.
00:09:21
Speaker
that'll all have to wait, though. Matt, it is time for Pat's email corner.
Marvel Retcons & Rogue's Powers Explained
00:09:30
Speaker
You excited? I'm so excited. I'm always excited for Pat's email corner. We're going to start off i in an unusual fashion with an email from Weapon Jason. These are his thoughts on episode 56. He says, Hey, Pat, tell Matt, I know you're having fun complaining, but at the time, the fact that Thor's casket of ancient winter storyline was impacting all the Marvel books and the wrapping up of Rom's run with the Wraith War crossing over to was pretty damn cool.
00:10:03
Speaker
I think mostly because the approach was less, you will make your book about this directives and was more left up to each title, how much it impacted anything. Claremont, I think is flexing here by how much he manages to integrate these events into his actual story. It's not like this in any way slows down what he's already doing.
00:10:20
Speaker
It's a really good point. He's able to just kind of do it pretty seamlessly. Yes. ah This is the gentle launch of what Marvel will soon turn into, the annual event-driven storytelling that will derail every storyline in service of the crossover. But at the time, it was just a cool expansion of having Spider-Man see Iron Man or something fly by in a panel and having an editor's note to check out events in the latest Iron Man issue.
00:10:46
Speaker
i I get that, but that's also, they've been doing that since the 60s. but in In small ways. i can see what he's saying that it's building. It's building like it's it's becoming more the idea of a crossover is becoming more of a thing. But won't really like he says you're going see the combination of it in Secret Wars 2 that's going to suck fucking ass. And then Louis Simonson and Chris Claremont are going to show that they can do it much much better.
00:11:15
Speaker
Shortly afterwards with an event called Mutant Massacre. Oh, no. And then after that, Jim Stupid is going to force them to keep doing that every year.
00:11:29
Speaker
And... drive louise simonson away from marvel but we'll talk can't wait ah weapon jason continues as someone who's lost both parents as well as recently a very important family friend who was like a second father to me i can say that rachel's emotional moments here land hard yeah since i know we bragged about having a live dad's but sincerely if you've lost a parent that's uh that's what hearts are with you yeah totally Not as much when I was young and could just talk to them, but now years after they are gone, just the thought of being able to go back and possibly talk to them again has a very strong pull.
00:12:09
Speaker
I guess I could see that. I guess that's kind of what we were saying in the episode, right, is we were unsure if it was possible. our lack of experience in that area that was making us not connect to it, or if it was just done kind of poorly.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting to know that from weapon Jason's perspective, it was done well. Yeah. That hit. And I'll, I will take his word for it. I don't know about you, Pat.
00:12:36
Speaker
Pat's Pat's making a sour face and giving me a thumbs down. I don't believe you.
00:12:45
Speaker
ah One last thought here. Love that Jaime Rodriguez is using a Sony Watchman, which in
Critique on Alpha Flight Comics
00:12:53
Speaker
1984 is really cutting edge tech. Did I mention in my episode in that episode that my dad had one of those in the no late 80s and early ninety s and Incredible. I used to take it and watch it all the time.
00:13:05
Speaker
What'd you watch on it? whatever i could get which was almost nothing it so probably like you know just like a little kid in the early 90s like it wouldn't have been late 80s because i would have been four so early 90s was just like anything moving on a screen is yeah and you were watching the news yeah yeah in black in full black and white
00:13:35
Speaker
Had you ever seen one in that era? i I had seen, i don't think it was a Sony Watchman, but I do remember seeing portable television sets. ah Specifically, my dad, when I was younger, was in like rec sports leagues. And so if they would take place at the same time as like the Eagles game, somebody would bring the TV and they would watch 30 minutes of the Eagles game before it ran out of battery. Yeah.
00:14:06
Speaker
ah Finally, he says, also, there have been plenty of retcons to explain why Nova Roma is Nova Roma. Most that involves Selene. sure we'll figure we'll learn about like why it never evolved.
00:14:17
Speaker
I I can he's ask him. ah But he says, and in the Marvel Comics universe, is it really that weird that they can recreate an ancient Roman bath? I mean, maybe somebody asked Reed Richards if he had any photos lying around from some time travel event.
00:14:33
Speaker
Okay, yes, yeah but hang on this is very clearly there being like, oh, this is what the Roman bath looks like in this museum in New York City at this moment.
00:14:46
Speaker
Like Chris Clare. Yeah, yeah. and decided to put it in the comic. you I totally, I get what you're saying. And i think that would be a fucking cool idea in a comic book. It's like the museums in the Marvel Universe must be fucking wild.
00:15:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. But at this point, even just the things that happened in ancient Egypt in that universe were radically different. And they know it because they've all like time traveled and there's still Egyptians like ancient Egyptians walking around and shit. So like.
00:15:21
Speaker
That interesting idea sort of the thing that's the sort of comic book thing that gets explored in the 2000s and 2010s yeah yeah uh the 1980s what they were still doing was trying to bring the real world into marvel and in in situations like this it just comes across as kind of ridiculous it does and it is i will maintain see this was sort of your argument at the time that but like what it would be missing is the flaws, the very specific like the the where that was applied to it, the the smell of the place because of the way that people behaved in it. like Yeah. Again, when you walk into an abandoned YMCA, you're not like, ah, this feels just like the YMCA pool of my youth. You're like, fuck, this is so weird and creepy and unfamiliar.
00:16:17
Speaker
yeah yeah or an abandoned mall oh my god yeah an example more people might have a frame of reference for i spent ah a lot of time breaking into abandoned buildings um as a as a little bit of a rapscallion but yeah here's a small example right it was the the twenty ten s that archaeologists discovered, it might have been a little earlier, but it became publicized in the 2010s, that archaeologists discovered that a lot of ancient statues that we think is like alabaster white marble, right, were actually painted their era. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:00
Speaker
Pretty vibrantly colored. Yes. and same I already knew that. Same with what? is just You knew that before the archaeologists? It was the last like 10 or 20 years that the archaeologists figured it out. And the same with, so the same was probably true of the walls and the columns and stuff. um There's probably a lot more color than we think there was. And that is one way in which.
00:17:23
Speaker
It would be radically different. Radically different. And she'd walk in and be like, why is everything white? Did they forget to paint this place?
00:17:34
Speaker
Uh, you're wrong weapon, Jason, but please as always keep writing in. Got to move on though. Let's move on to another unusual emailer. Email. Michael has written in also in response to episode 56. He says, Hey Pat, tell Matt that I agree that eggs are the funniest food. I have nothing else to say about that.
00:17:53
Speaker
ah That's why you egg people's houses and not like grape people's houses. Exactly. Creeping a house would be fun. If you wake up and your lawn is covered in grapes.
00:18:09
Speaker
and Like you can't walk anywhere without stepping on a grape. Who did this? i'd be so That'd be so good. Expensive. Oh, yeah, good. Oh, yeah, that would be expensive. I guess eggs are expensive these days.
00:18:22
Speaker
You're right. What's it more expensive, an egg or a grape? You tell me. Hmm. MutantMennisPod at gmail.com. Your move, Hutch. What do you think is more expensive? Do not research. Because you could like just look it up by gram, I guess. But...
00:18:38
Speaker
he goes on. He says there was some discussion in this episode about Chris Claremont using the word suckers repeatedly. It reminds me of when I was a kid and my dad called everything and everyone he disliked or was mad at a turkey. Years later, years later, I asked him why he was so obsessed with that word. And he told me it was because he didn't think saying asshole or motherfucker was appropriate in front of a little kid. Yeah. It didn't explain why always Turkey and nothing else, but I have to wonder if Claremont is doing the same thing and is simply trying to censor himself while failing to think of more than one PG rated word to do so.
00:19:13
Speaker
That's really good. I absolutely love how everybody's families have a different one of these. um I remember my buddy Sean in high school. He used to say his his dad, when they were driving, his favorite thing to do was yell at people. Where'd you get your driver's license?
00:19:29
Speaker
ah And then just like a ah department store. Like, where'd you get your driver's license? JC Penney? Kohl's? No, I'm sure it was something. Target? Acme? Acme? Do they have Acme's elsewhere in the... though the No, that's specific here. The rest of the country, it's a company that makes anvils and explosives.
00:19:52
Speaker
All right. Got to keep moving, Matt. Thank you so much, Email Michael. ah We're going to move on to Ink Master, the Ink Master. He says, Hey, Pat, tell Matt that at this rate, you should start calling it Pilk Email Corner. it.
00:20:09
Speaker
if i so I will say, if we were to get a sponsorship from Pepsi, I would consider calling this Pilk
Gilded Lily & Character Dynamics in Alpha Flight
00:20:15
Speaker
email corner. ah he also He says, also, if Pat is the Eggman, does that make Matt the walrus?
00:20:22
Speaker
Ah, fuck. Ah, cuckoo, cachoo. You don't get to say that. That was me. not You don't get to say that. You don't get to say cuckoo-cuckoo. I'm the walrus.
00:20:35
Speaker
I get to say cuckoo-cuckoo. You don't get to say that. I'm the walrus. I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. I had no right. I get to say...
00:20:48
Speaker
do all the rest of the lyrics if you want but once he's the walrus he says cuckoo cachu so like uh inkbester goes on he says to hopefully help clarify rogues powers Normally, the absorbed powers will fade over time and the affected person will just naturally recover. So we already agreed on that. Yes. Naturally, the more she drains from someone, the longer she has their powers and the longer it will take them to recover.
00:21:12
Speaker
We know that as well. If she drains them for long enough, she absorbs their powers and psyche completely, as with what happened to Carol. Still full agreement. So it's less of a living monolith situation, more that the rate of fading is usually proportionate to the rate of recovery, which are both proportionate to how long she drained someone for.
00:21:31
Speaker
Since Storm recovered before Rogue leapt into action and the rate it takes someone to recover is roughly proportionate to how long the powers last for, that means that Storm recovering before Rogue took action means that any of her psyche Rogue absorbed also faded, which means any heroic instincts she felt must have been her own.
00:21:51
Speaker
So, I think that the implication in that... i agree with you that that is eventually how Rogue's powers work. And that is a good, no prize, retroactive explanation.
00:22:06
Speaker
However, I think in that comic, the implication was that... when the other character, when the character, when the other person's powers return, it takes it back away from Rogue because Claremont just hadn't figured it out yet.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think both, i think you're both right. i think Ink Master is right in that this is eventually, I mean, not I think, I know that this is eventually how Rogue's powers work, but I think at this time, Claremont just hadn't quite written those rules yet.
00:22:44
Speaker
Right.
00:22:47
Speaker
One more email just to round us out, Matt. It is from Sweet Douglas. He titles it Alpha Flight of Fancy. Hey, here's something wild.
00:23:00
Speaker
ah We didn't mention. I don't know how we didn't mention this last episode, but last episode and Mackenzie calls Douglas Thompson Sweet Douglas. Whoa. Oh, sweet Douglas. Sweet Douglas.
00:23:15
Speaker
Well, there we go. Let's see. What a fitting nickname. h He says, Hey, Pat, tell Matt that I haven't emailed in a while because I was exhausted from work. No one ever needs to explain to us. It was you're emailing plenty.
00:23:30
Speaker
You don't have to email us every episode. You're welcome to email us every episode. We don't expect it, but it's nice to hear from you guys. And, you know, almost it's nicer to hear from you guys when we haven't heard from you for a while. Because it's like, aw, sweet Douglas.
00:23:44
Speaker
No offense to the Weapon Chasens and the the email Michaels out there. they And the Mikey 2 Nails. What I said was, and I think you all misheard it, was I said was it was it's equally nice to hear from you guys. It's been a while versus says every episode.
00:24:02
Speaker
uh he's talking about alpha flight appropriately enough he says it's a great series but definitely too wordy and maybe trying too hard to be canadian i don't know if i've ever heard any of my fellow canucks say a even a quarter as often as puck and it's hilarious how they make the boobies sound like they're from france instead of quebec i keep chowing as i put a Kubikwa accent on Aurora, replacing Sapristi with Tabarnak, and so on. i I don't know what that's funny to somebody. Yeah, I don't know what that is. I mean, it's funny to me, but I don't know what it means.
00:24:37
Speaker
I also wanted to mention that we all know what Toad's real power is. Taking the fall for Magneto. ah ah is F in chat for Toad. And finally, if I had to choose, I would rather drown in Mayo and let Warlock drown in Pilk. I just can't stand the little guy. And I think drowning in Pilk is much funnier. So at least I'd get a good laugh on the way down. Jesus Christ, is sweet Douglas. Wow.
00:25:07
Speaker
you don't we made it explicit you don't even have to let them drown. The X-Man doesn't have to die. You can you don't survive. The X-Man survives. Or can. I think they have no control over whether the X-Man dies. I think they can throw the X-Man in pilk.
00:25:24
Speaker
Or mayonnaise. Yeah. And then let them drown. if it's And let let whatever happens, happens. Because before we clarified, people were giving us both scenarios. Yeah.
00:25:35
Speaker
So, okay. That's ah pretty sick and twisted. Sweet Douglas. Getting into the sick, twisted mind of sweet Douglas.
00:25:49
Speaker
That's that'll do it for a corner today. or even for the whole week.
00:26:10
Speaker
Oh, Matt, just before, just before. I got talk to talk you about Alpha Flight. No, but just read just before. Well, I got to talk to you about Alpha Flight. know, I know, I know, buddy. Hey, I know.
00:26:22
Speaker
I want to talk to you about Alpha Flight. Just before so that we can talk about Alpha Flight, I got to ask. Okay. Did you do anything X-Men related this week? Oh, man. So I've been thinking about this question, thinking hard.
00:26:36
Speaker
And I think the answer is probably no. I'm still preparing for this road trip, which we decided is kind of X-Men related. Oh, sure. Yeah. So, yes. Yeah. these But yeah, I mean, like I went and got some change to keep in my car.
00:26:52
Speaker
cheat Like coins? Coins. I got my car all checked out at the shop. Well, great. So, yeah, so that and, ah you know, i ah just little stuff. I've just been all, like, preparing.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Making sure you have your backup pair of ruby quartz glasses. How about you, Pat? Have you done anything X-Men related this week?
00:27:18
Speaker
In fact, I have, Matt. I don't believe you. And honestly, I can't believe you didn't mention this because you did it with me. you and I. Oh, that was, yes. You should have said We made appearance on the Drunk Panthers podcast. Does it hold up? Yeah. We were invited on. It's going to, it's going to take a little bit to get released, but keep an eye on their channel because they make a lot of really cool, fun stuff on YouTube. Yeah. They're two super, they're two super funny guys. And now they're our best friends and no one can tell us otherwise, including them.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. So shout out to our new best friends, Matt. I'm sorry that you and I are no longer best friends. and ah but Listener, best friend, Christy. Sorry. Yeah. got Well, she's still best friends of the show.
00:28:10
Speaker
Okay. Oh, they're so they're best friends of us, but not the show. Personally, yeah. I don't think they really like us. The show. They love they love us The people.
00:28:25
Speaker
i All right. Keep keep an eye out. We will be guesting on their show. Eventually. I'm excited for you guys to hear it. It was a lot of fun. We talked about the... ah Are we allowed to say? i don't know. Let's not say. so In case we can't.
00:28:40
Speaker
Patrick. Yo. All of this was just preamble to the main event. It's a lot of preamble. And you know what the main... I know. You know what the main event is?
00:28:54
Speaker
What's that, Matt? So you're going to tell me. Oh, I do, Matt. Oh, it's. You're going to tell me all about Alpha Flight 19. Number 19.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yes. Alpha Flight number 19. Turn again. Turn again. time in thy flight. Jesus. Yeah, this appears to be a misquote of the first line of the poem, Rock Me to Sleep, by Elizabeth Akers Allen. um Okay. i You know, it is just John Byrne trying to be artsy and failing. It is, oh, it's not the first line. It's the end of the first stanza. Rock me to sleep, mother. Rock me to sleep.
00:29:33
Speaker
And then at the beginning of the poem, it says, backwards, turn backwards, oh time in your flight. Huh. what do What do you think he means by that?
00:29:46
Speaker
Literally nothing. I think he means absolutely nothing. I think he just is just attempting to be Half remember the poem. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough.
00:30:00
Speaker
I think somebody flies probably in the comic. and
Circus Antagonist: Pink Pearl
00:30:04
Speaker
yeah He's just, he's one of the world's least poetic guys and he really wants to be the opposite of that.
00:30:13
Speaker
And that is John Byrne, creator, writer, artist. ah Andy Yankus, coloring. Rick Parker, lettering. Denny O'Neill. And I wish he would stop.
00:30:31
Speaker
Denny O'Neill, editor. And you got it. You got Jim Shutup, editor. Yes! Yes!
00:30:41
Speaker
Released date October 30th, 1984. Cover date February 1985.
00:30:49
Speaker
Shaman is casting a spell while Elizabeth, Puck, and Heather watch. He determines that the threat that attacked them last issue is still active and dangerous. They got together. The half of Alpha Flight is here now. It's Shaman, Puck, and Heather.
00:31:07
Speaker
Okay. Shaman believes this all happened due to something Strang did. Stang did. i I'm sure I wrote Stang. I'm sure im sorry I wrote Stang and you came and changed it to be wrong.
00:31:21
Speaker
Shaman believes this all happened due to something that Stank did when he was 17, 100 years ago. We all did weird things as Stanky 17 years ago. Since this involves a great beast, Snowbird arrives and bizarrely bows down before Elizabeth.
00:31:40
Speaker
One more, one more member. We're reuniting. Elizabeth is apparently some kind of prophesied chosen one, the breaker of all spells, the one who binds all evil.
00:31:52
Speaker
What? Jesus Christ. As per the ancient and terrible prophecy, she pulls a tiara out of shaman's medicine bag and puts it on her head, transforming her into some kind of sorceress or whatever.
00:32:07
Speaker
She begins to ask about the terrible prophecy, but there's no time for that now. They have to travel 100 years into the past to Calgary, 1884. eighty eightyf four um When they time travel, they almost.
00:32:23
Speaker
Puck makes a big show of that. He almost landed in a puddle.
00:32:29
Speaker
He like does a big Joey flip, and he's like, oh, i almost that was almost a a wet arrival. All right. You almost touched a puddle, dude. we Survived the peril of being embarrassed. Could not be lower stakes, my dude. Didn't you didn't you used to be a fucking bullfighter in like the nineteen fifty s There is so Michael Shaman drops the hint that i like I forget exactly what Elizabeth does, but she does something and he's like, oh, my goodness. She she could be the one foretold. And I thought this was going to be sort of the path that we're going down, like a chosen one story. Right. But literally two panels later, Snowbird comes in and bows down and says, the chosen one. Mystery solved.
00:33:23
Speaker
All right. Okay. I guess that she's that now. they They also say her power may rival Dr. Strange. Oh, yeah. Which is. That's it's pretty good.
00:33:34
Speaker
I guess. I mean, with her I'm pretty baffled by her power, to be honest. Yeah. Well, I'm sure it'll ah clear up as we go. You think her power will come up in these issues?
00:33:50
Speaker
you think like You think they'll address her power in some way? I'm sure they will. they'll They'll give us a little more to chew on here. Using Elizabeth's magical senses, they find their way to a little shack where a nude man is floating in the air and glowing while a furry cowboy holds a woman at gunpoint and a young blonde boy stands there looking confused.
00:34:12
Speaker
Would you say roughly a a roughly 17 year old blonde boy? i would say he looks like 12 or 13, honestly. Well, 17 was a lot younger back in the Old West. Right, right, right.
00:34:28
Speaker
And it's not the Old West, by the way. It's it's Calgary. It's Calgary, Alberta. ah The furry cowboy is Zebediah Chase. Zebediah Chase is here. Zebediah Chase! Everyone's favorite one.
00:34:44
Speaker
And he's holding a hostage the granddaughter of an indigenous magic man, forcing him to summon the great beast Renak. The boy is, of course, Lucas Stank. It seems they stole protective necklaces from the girl. And so while the magic guy warns them about the dangers of Renak, they don't listen.
00:35:04
Speaker
What are all our our great beasts so far? We've got Tundra. We've got Renak. We've got Who's the the one that's the that's innocent?
00:35:17
Speaker
Conilak? Kolak? Yeah, I'll look it up while you keep going. I'm a bad activist. I forgot his name.
00:35:27
Speaker
ah ah
00:35:31
Speaker
Meanwhile, Colomac. Colomac. There it is. Free Colomac. Meanwhile, Snowbird is frothing at the mouth to rush in and stop the ritual. But Shaman holds her back.
00:35:43
Speaker
When Renak appears, Lucas shoots him with a gun, which does nothing. However, okay the protective necklaces actually do turn out to work. The thieves demand women and money from Renak, so he produces them.
00:35:56
Speaker
But Zeb finds he can't touch them. That's because of your necklace, says Renok. So Zeb pulls it off and is immediately possessed by the great beast. He just pulls it right off. He's like, oh, like okay.
00:36:08
Speaker
if i If I get this pretty lady and all this gold. If I get this pretty lady who just appeared from thin air.
00:36:18
Speaker
Damn, I can't wait to get my hands on this pretty lady who appeared from thin air it is It's very funny for these two clearly stupid cowboys to be exploiting incredible mystic power and awakening an ancient god. And they're like, oh yeah, we read about it in a book. No, they pulled the information from somebody. Yeah.
00:36:43
Speaker
From the girl they're holding hostage. But it was it's just like... and It's extremely funny how reckless they're being. this We i should say so we're not avoiding the problematic nature of it. It is an indigenous girl.
00:36:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. And the nude man is indigenous, too. But Renac, the Renac storyline continues to be incredibly funny. And like intentionally so. Yeah. ah Snowbird finally jumps in and confronts Renac, who lashes out since Nelvana, Snowbird's mother, was the one who imprisoned him a thousand years ago. Remember that? She imprisoned everybody. Why is this lady keep imprisoning people?
00:37:25
Speaker
He blasts her out of the shack and across the street. Shaman runs to help and sends Elizabeth in to face Renac alone. He tries to blast her too, but she absorbs it and zaps it right back while Puck subdues Lucas Stank with a rad jump kick.
00:37:43
Speaker
The magic guy from earlier shows back up and tells the nude one and tells Lucas he's the only one who can defeat Renac. And Lucas has the idea to fill one of his bullet casings with a piece of the magic necklace and shoot Renac. And everybody's like, you're the only one who can do it.
00:38:01
Speaker
Huh? You have the only one fire fired gun You have the one human skill they that may yet save us. Gun. Gun.
00:38:14
Speaker
And then he's like, oh, if I break a piece off of this necklace, it's shaped exactly like a bullet. It fits right into the shell casing.
00:38:24
Speaker
Wow, Louis Stank. You... i mean Pretty crafty. Pretty crafty. You're a crafty boy. and then he straight up shoots him in the head. Nice. He is holding a pistol to this guy's head. You see the exit. i You see it exiting the back of Renac's head. It's fucking brutal. He yells, call me stank now.
00:38:48
Speaker
He doesn't. ah Later, Lucas buries the formerly possessed body of Zebediah Chase right where Elizabeth will find him 100 years later, and the magic man tells him the prophecy about how Renac will eventually strike back through his loved ones. Since this has all already happened, there's nothing anyone can do.
00:39:07
Speaker
and Yeah, they also... There's a line here where it's like, and then he pushes all of his family away, except for a short period where he takes a wife. And that's just John Byrne going, fuck, how would he have grandkids? Fuck. You'll be alone for a thousand years. like, fuck, how would, i I already gave him a granddaughter. I started this story by having a granddaughter. How, Except for the two years that you're married. Except for when you grew affection with a woman over time i and she decided she agreed to marry you because she felt so connected to you.
00:39:50
Speaker
i Elizabeth is upset about all this and also gets a new name from Snowbird. Talisman. The end. okay The end. Can we pause for a minute and just talk about the... ah concept of time travel in this comic because it is either brilliant or incredibly stupid yes okay yeah please there's a lot of implications here the the first one that struck me was when shaman stopped snowbird from attacking ranak and by saying we have to allow the moment to happen.
00:40:34
Speaker
There seems to be like not not like a not like string theory as much as it is there's a ah collected series of moments that that occur through time. And if you affect those moments, then it can have hazardous effects on time which I guess he is, was the but you can do plenty of other things as long as you don't affect these key moments.
00:41:07
Speaker
This is the Into the Spider-Verse
00:41:14
Speaker
Sort of. What was that? What's that? Everyone started using this term all of a sudden after that. Canon event. Canon events. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i Yeah, i do it's sort of like that, but that doesn't have like that time travel aspect where if you went back and.
00:41:33
Speaker
Okay. I guess there's there's an episode of Marvel's What If where Doctor Strange tries to stop the accident that caused his hands to get hurt, but that turns out to be like a canon. So he can go back in time and he can change everything else, but he can't change this one moment, which is a lot more akin to that Spider-Verse thing. This is not a theory I'm finding.
00:42:02
Speaker
prior examples of just in my own memory banks, but like the idea that key moments in time are what make our history and deviations outside of that aren't actually impactful. If you want to create a new timeline, you have to affect one of these key moments.
00:42:20
Speaker
I am also having trouble thinking of examples of that, but I know they exist. This something yeah ands not this is something that I've encountered in fiction. I just, at the moment, I can't remember where.
00:42:33
Speaker
You miss pod at gmail.com. We'll probably tell you you're wrong. Yeah. i The other concept that really drives me nuts is. They go back 100 years.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yes. Stop Renac. Yes. But he's still going to torture Lucas Stank for the next 100 years. Lucas is still cursed. OK. With Renac's presence.
00:43:00
Speaker
Right.
00:43:04
Speaker
what What did they go back in time to do?
00:43:11
Speaker
but You're right. what What are they doing? And why is why is this a hundred year event that has to happen in time?
00:43:23
Speaker
Well, Louis Stank has to be cursed.
00:43:28
Speaker
But why? I don't know. ah But he has to And we have to let him. but In order for us to have discovered Elizabeth's powers. but Because she is prophesied.
00:43:41
Speaker
now here that's the other That's the other aspect here. There are prophecies involved. There are prophecies that have to be fulfilled. Right. but but Which guess lines up with the moments. It seems as if elizabeth pro Elizabeth's prophecy goes far beyond Right?
00:43:57
Speaker
Right. They're still calling her the chosen one or whatever after this story. so But you're right. like if the If Alpha Flight isn't here, who... i think... They don't stall him for five minutes, allowing for Lucas Stank to put his necklace in the bullet?
00:44:19
Speaker
but all all Literally all Alpha Flight do in this thing is stall Renak for five minutes. yeah That is the only thing they affect here.
00:44:30
Speaker
And then he gets shot in the head. By Louis Stank, who is already there. Yeah, but we learn that Renak, that doesn't kill. And the nude man is the one who tells him that he hasn't solved this. So, like, Alpha Flight does almost nothing here.
00:44:47
Speaker
They travel back in time. They come back. Yeah, they don't really. They fight Renak. He kicks their asses. And then gets shot in the head by somebody who was already there.
00:45:01
Speaker
You're right. when they When they return back to the timeline, they still fought that scrambled egg monster. Yes. Yeah, this story is ridiculous. They do their best to dance around the scar scrambled egg monster, by the way. they When they're recapping what happened last issue, they're like, it was a monster. Don't worry about it. Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
um Yeah, man, this story is nonsensical. I hadn't even, you know, I have trouble piecing together time travel stuff like that. Oftentimes when I read time travel stories, I have a lot of trouble thinking in that fourth dimension and thinking like, okay, what would be different? I wish that. I have a...
00:45:46
Speaker
burden where when I read any time travel story, I have to be able to loop the logic around. It can be tenuous, but I have to be able to draw the the lines.
00:45:58
Speaker
I also have that trouble with, I think maybe any story because I had that same, it took me, i think I had to read a blog post about it before I realized after watching Indiana Jones 1000 times as a kid,
00:46:13
Speaker
Okay. I had to read a blog post before I realized that Indiana Jones affected the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark 0%.
00:46:24
Speaker
He's present for everything and he fails at everything he tries. And nothing if you remove him from the story, absolutely everything happens same. Yeah, everything happens the same. Yeah.
00:46:40
Speaker
he's with He's just an observer. He's just an observer. Which is archaeologist's job, right? They get defeated by opening the coffin, not by... yeah yeah. It's not anything that yeah he does. Yeah.
00:46:56
Speaker
So that that sort of cause and effect of the protagonists of a story i have trouble following. So, hey, this is Alpha Flight's Raiders of the Lost Ark. That's exciting, huh? Yeah.
00:47:09
Speaker
Well, it's a really cool time travel art out of it. Speaking of treasures, ancient treasures. Are you ready, Pat, for me to move on to Alpha Flight number 20?
00:47:22
Speaker
yes it's called yes it's called gold and love affairs it's by john byrne who wrote an artist did this keith williams does the background inks that's new who uh rick parker letters it and he yank us is the colorist denny o'neill is the editor what He's actually going by Dennis O'Neill starting in this issue. Oh, Jesus. He's grown up.
00:47:53
Speaker
um Jackie Shumway is the editor-in-chief, and it was released on December 1984. fourth nineteen eighty four Cover date, Sasquatch is um tearing a whole in a mountain
00:48:15
Speaker
to Help a construction company create a new river or something like that. ah Either way, it takes him just a few hours to accomplish several months worth of work. The crew and foreman thank him for his help just as Aurora flies onto the scene in her hot new outfit.
00:48:35
Speaker
It's essentially a one-piece swimsuit with boots. Yeah, and sleeves on it. ah Yeah, like ragged sleeves. The construction guys all ask if they can have sex with her, and she starts teasing them. Well, we'll we'll return to that. okay Which frustrates Sasquatch. His frustration makes her mad, and she flies off.
00:48:55
Speaker
He skulks off to find her. So, yes, she arrives. The construction workers are like, hey, will you have sex with all of us? Hey, nice to meet you Can we have sex? like there' is There's nothing in between. Yeah, they're like, I hear you're a lady who has a good time. Can you could you share some of that good time with us? And she says yes and kisses them.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah. And then Sasquatch says, you're just teasing them, aren't you, Aurora? And she's like... You have a way of taking all the fun out of e anything everything and flies away, so... Her answer was, yes, she was going to fuck all these guys.
00:49:33
Speaker
No, she was teasing them. He says she's teasing them. as She got mad once he said, she's just teasing you. like shes Because that's where she's throwing a tantrum that he took all the fun out of her. No, he screams, aren't you, Aurora, at her. it's It's in a jagged word bubble. He yells at her. Well, yeah, I think it's meant to be frustrated. I think she was going fuck all of them.
00:49:57
Speaker
All right. Listeners, you make the call. And she open mouth kisses one of them. She does. Yeah. She's European. She's from France. Oh, yeah. That's what happens. If you go to French, everyone open mouth kisses you. ah Cut to Heather Hudson McDonald's estranged parents house. It's called French kiss. Where she, Snowbird, Shaman, Puck, and Talisman have all gathered to talk about their vast responsibilities that comes with Elizabeth Two Youngman's new powers.
00:50:25
Speaker
She rejects the idea and tries to remove the coronet of enchantment. That's that tiara she put on her head from Shaman's bag. It causes her to cry out in pain.
00:50:36
Speaker
Shaman finally explains the curse of her destiny. She can't reject it. The crown cannot be removed. Oops, sorry, forgot. i forgot you're stuck this way forever when you to do it. What she doing to do as a father? No wonder they were estranged for 10 years.
00:50:54
Speaker
Tell her about the curse. Well, he's such a dick. Everybody in Alpha Flight is such a dick. Tell your dads out there, tell your daughters about any curses that you're bestowing upon them. Ha ha ha.
00:51:06
Speaker
In the kitchen, Heather and Puck have a tender conversation as Puck knows just what to say to help Heather through what's clearly bothering her. Her husband died, and now she's leading a whole new life.
00:51:18
Speaker
She's glad he's here to offer wisdom and friendship, she tells him, as she walks off to call Walter and finally get the gang back together. All that's missing is Walter and Aurora. Mm-hmm. Because North Star said no. Yeah, North Star's out. The best member of the team. Well, the second best member of the team.
00:51:36
Speaker
Puck is best. Yeah. Shaman walks in at that moment and tells Judd his feelings for Heather are clear and appear to be reciprocal. God damn it, Shaman.
00:51:48
Speaker
He's like, Puck, Heather's a vulnerable lady right now. And I just want to make sure you're being sensitive to that. And Puck's like, yeah, I'm not going to take advantage of any vulnerable lady ladies. And Shaman's like, no, no, no, no. no no no no If she wants you to take advantage of her,
00:52:03
Speaker
You have to do it. Do it. She will soon need someone strong and good and kind to give as much of themselves to her as she needs. It's clear if this is another prophecy or if he's just talking about the general effects of grief. I tend to think it is the latter. He's just like, hey, I'm pretty sure...
00:52:23
Speaker
That's what he's saying too. But what if this has larger implications? What if, what if he's like, I've seen the future or I've read the prophecy and Heather isn't going to make it through without a new partner. I've been to 10,000 different realities and only one do we win.
00:52:45
Speaker
i don't actually know what the one where you, where you and Heather bone down. ah Cut to Vancouver, where Walter and Aurora cruise across the straits of Juan de Fuca in a speedboat. Walter in a sweater and sport coat.
00:53:01
Speaker
Aurora in a bikini and a shawl. Fucking Walter Lankowski fucking cosplaying as a boat captain. He's got like a captain's hat on with an anchor on it. And he's like, oh, my parents bought me this boat. You fucking...
00:53:16
Speaker
rich kid bitch right on top of everything else yeah yeah he's like rich he's like he's like we're off to uh the these mansion that my parents owned on this island my whole childhood fuck right fuck off dude and my parents we've owned it this whole time but we've never been to it because my mom was like i don't like this place you that fucking yeah yeah all right anyway um They arrive at their destination, a Victorian mansion in the woods. Turns out this is Walter's by inheritance. Bastard. After his great aunt, who is mysteriously widowed eight separate times, built it. Why can't we just?
00:53:56
Speaker
All right. This is the conceit of so many pieces of fiction that like I am against the prison industrial complex, except for I, from now on, think if somebody is widowed more than four times,
00:54:12
Speaker
Even if there seems to be legitimate reasons for all the widowings, you go to jail. You go to jail and you stay in jail while. automatically? Yeah. Whether you're male or female, if your spouses die, more than more than four spouses die, even if we have documented evidence that you are innocent, you're in jail forever.
00:54:33
Speaker
you're You're doing something wrong. Yeah. We know there's some secret thing you're doing. That'll come out when you're 79 years old. like when ah when when a random detective visits your house on ah on a at at ah at a dinner party.
00:54:51
Speaker
Unless you marry that detective. Ooh. um So this this base, they just he's he's he's trying to convince her we'll make the perfect home base for the reunited Alpha Flight.
00:55:04
Speaker
Walter starts giving Aurora a tour of the place, noting that it's tidy and cared for despite being abandoned. When he slips through a false wall with a big whoops.
00:55:16
Speaker
it's just You're is supposed to be a superhero, man. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. la o ah Aurora, alone and panicking, watches the lights dim and eventually go out around her, leaving her in complete darkness. Again, two pages of no art.
00:55:33
Speaker
Of just black black battles. She freaks out as her thoughts eventually turn to words. This, she says, is exactly how the nuns used to pull the Jean Marie personality out of her when Aurora's personality took over as a child, locking her in a dark closet until the rebellious side of her broke. in this long And in this long stint with Aurora fully in charge, she's recently felt Jean Marie becoming stronger and stronger within her, occasionally breaking through to the surface. ah Aurora and Jean Marie start fighting with each other in the dark.
00:56:05
Speaker
And there has been there have been comments by Walters in in his thoughts um and sort of evidence ah in the text that Aurora, who normally speaks in flawless English, has been slipping into a French accent and French ah colloquialisms.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yes. Walter wonders if there's a third personality emerging, which is scientifically not very sound. What do you mean? That's how it works.
00:56:32
Speaker
What do you mean? That's exactly how. um I'm not a doctor. He is. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't question. The brilliance of Walter Lankowski. And we're only going to find out through this series, through this episode, that Walter Lankowski is just so brilliant. And everything he does is right and smart.
00:56:53
Speaker
Can't wait. A door opens as Aurora walks back into the light, finding herself in a hall with eight golden statues. It's cool art. John Byrne still fucking got it art-wise.
00:57:06
Speaker
um As she investigates the statues, noting that Walter's great-grandmother had been married eight times, one of the statues opens its eyes.
00:57:16
Speaker
She screams and stumbles backwards into a woman in a white cloak with a golden face, calling herself Gilded Lily.
00:57:27
Speaker
She's like, hello, I'm Lily Lankowski. You can call me Gilded Lily cause she's because she's gold. She's gold. Walter's here, too, by the way.
00:57:39
Speaker
ah He's already a gold statue himself. To be continued. What? Okay.
00:57:45
Speaker
i oh but Okay. What? here's We get a Haunted Mansion episode. This is you killed it Gilded Lily's kind of cool. i like She looks cool even she's a complete 100% ripoff of ah Gene Colan's Madam Mask. Yeah, she absolutely is. But Madam Mask looks cool too. Madam Mask looks cool. They both look cool. And her face is even shinier than Madam Mask's.
00:58:14
Speaker
Because it's gold. And she's got like a robot What's Madam Mask's mask made of? um I don't know. like Like bronze or steel or something. But it's got it's got rivets all around it, remember? Yeah, yeah.
00:58:28
Speaker
yeah Madam Mask's mask. Madam Mask's mask. mask mask um I liked this issue. Yeah, this is fun. i e Not much happens in it.
00:58:40
Speaker
It's very silly. There's a lot of... is silly the word for it there's a lot of fluff they yeah yeah there's five pages one two three four yeah uh four pages of ah sasquatch just clearing out part of a forest silent just him tearing trees out of the ground and yeah and hitting stuff with them and it really is i have no idea what it is he's trying to accomplish here he's Well, if they say he he created a he They can build here now because there's water and the land is clear. So he's clearing the land and creating a river.
00:59:19
Speaker
Yeah, okay. So, i don't know. it Yeah. now I'm not saying that that's like that like makes a lot of sense. I'm just saying that is textually what he's doing.
00:59:30
Speaker
But there's like there's that. There's the... There's two or three pages total of them just being on a boat while John Byrne writes a story in the in the margins.
00:59:45
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he just wanted to draw ah Aurora's butt. Yeah, yeah. There's no reason for her to be. There will be a story reason next issue for her to be scantily clad.
00:59:57
Speaker
Is that or is that in two issues? Yeah. Any other thoughts here, Matt? Or should we keep on moving? Yeah. I want to i want to see Gilded Lily in action doing cool stuff. Like she's going to be a cool supervillain and she'll probably stick around for the rest of Alpha Flights.
01:00:13
Speaker
like Because that's one thing. John Byrne has not created like a rogues gallery yet. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Especially with a... ah ah familial connection to alpha flame a backstory yeah connection an evil layer this is gonna be great all right let's get into it alpha flight number 21 love wrought new
01:00:36
Speaker
love wrought new alchemy This is a line from a John Don poem. John Don, John Don. his His name is spelled D-O-N-N-E, but I think it's pronounced John Don, but it always makes me mad.
01:00:49
Speaker
Don. Yeah, I guess it has to do with the accent of the time. yeah John Don. John Byrne, Story and Pencils, Bob Wyacek, Inker, Andy Yankus, Coloring, Rick Parker, Lettering, Dennis O'Neill, Editor, and Jim Penis, Editor-in-Chief.
01:01:07
Speaker
Release date January 2nd, 1985, Matt. we are this This was released
01:01:15
Speaker
covered in april nineteen eighty five oh wow we're getting closer Aurora clings to the gold-plated body of Walter Lankowski, demanding answers from Gilded Lily.
01:01:26
Speaker
She gives her backstory. 100 years ago, she and her new husband Lionel were driving their old-timey car through Transylvania when they crashed and Lionel died. ah she She made her way to a big stone castle and collapsed.
01:01:41
Speaker
When she woke up, she was in a fancy bed and a kind gentleman named Esteban Diablo had been waiting for her. That's Spanish for Stephen Devil. do you Did you know who this guy was?
01:01:54
Speaker
No, no idea. Esteban Corazon Diablo, a.k.a. Diablo. He is a Fantastic Four villain from the 1960s. Yes.
01:02:06
Speaker
She told him about Lionel, and he led her to his basement where he reveals himself to be the thousand-year-old alchemist known as Diablo. Yeah, Diablo. Also,
01:02:18
Speaker
While she was unconscious, he apparently fell in love with her. Fucking Christ. She fell in love back. What? She was unconscious. And over the next year, he taught her about alchemy. it ended when the villagers formed a mob, destroyed his underground lab, and locked him in it until the Fantastic Four eventually find him in Fantastic Four number 30. Oh, okay. They also they're so like they seem to burn it down, but he's like...
01:02:45
Speaker
He's fine. i don't know. He seems like a problematic guy. ah Lily makes her way back to England where she continues studying alchemy and learns how to transmute things into gold.
01:03:00
Speaker
She did it. She did it. She solved alchemy. There's two things alchemy needs to is trying to. This has always been the funniest fucking thing to me. There's two things alchemy has ever been trying to do. One, turn things into gold. Two,
01:03:14
Speaker
Come up with eternal life. The formula for eternal life. And if you do either one of those, you've done alchemy. that's why we That's why we do it in the first place, folks. ah ah It's also, it's got to be like every five to ten years in the Marvel Universe that somebody discovers the secret to transmuting objects into gold. LAUGHTER ah And it always turns out to be a good idea. It always works out for everybody.
01:03:46
Speaker
She goes back to Transylvania, marries one of the angry mob guys, and turns him into a gold statue still alive within. She did this seven more times until the entire mob was gold. So they would come around looking for their friend and she'd be like, I haven't seen him, but would you like to get married? Yeah. The first guy is fun. It's so funny. The first guy, he is ah in the middle of undressing to to bone on their wedding night. And so he spends the rest of eternity with his pants unbuckled.
01:04:23
Speaker
ah
01:04:26
Speaker
Then she settled here where she will now make her first gold lady when she can figure out a cool pose for Aurora. Yeah, she has to do the Batman villain bullshit. She's like, ah rather than touching you with my hand, which turns you to gold, I'm going to take you to my laboratory and slowly lower you into a bit of molten gold.
01:04:48
Speaker
Walter wakes up in the statue and breaks out when he transforms into Sasquatch. Why didn't you do that in the first place? Well, they they imply he was unconscious, but yeah. well do Why not the moment you're slipping through that wall?
01:05:04
Speaker
Right, right. You go, whoops, I guess I better be Sasquatch now. Right. But when he transforms into Sasquatch, 1500 miles away, Snowbird crashes from the sky and wonders what the fuck just happened. What just happened? Why am I? I was just being normal. i was flying like normal.
01:05:20
Speaker
Anyway, Walter searches the house and bursts in on gilded lily on Gilded Lily, about to dip Aurora into a boiling vat of gold. Gilded Lily with Madam Mask's mask. Gilded Lily with Madam Mask's mask.
01:05:39
Speaker
Lily throws a potion on the ground and the rocks start attacking Sasquatch. He burst he bursts through and starts smashing up the alchemy lab. When Lily starts to flee, he grabs hold of her cloak and rips it off. This rules.
01:05:53
Speaker
Revealing her to be a golden robot with some casing on her chest for organs or something. to Describe this robot. right Describe this robot. She looks like a Jetsons robot. Like she's got a single wheel with a pole sticking out of it into a torso with like robot arms. And the bottom of the torso kind of represents hip bones.
01:06:15
Speaker
And then it yeah it it builds into what looks like a, ah like a glass case with a giant brain in it, but we never get close enough to see like what's actually in this. It seems just like organs and junk.
01:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, whatever the ah idea here is, it's very cool. It's so cool looking. So I'm glad that she's going to be around forever to be a really cool Alpha Flight villain. Yeah, what an interesting introduction to this ah standard character. Which is why they gave her two issues, so that we would get we would learn all about her thing and we'd get used to her. And it's like, okay, now Gilded Lily is a part of the Marvel Universe.
01:06:55
Speaker
And she's about to fight. You ready? Yes. Sasquatch grabs the robot and pulls its face off, revealing that underneath Lily was still partly human and alive.
01:07:08
Speaker
Whoa. ah so cool. It's fucking gnarly. It's gnarly. I know we've talked about this before, but he rips the mask off and she's like, no, please stop. That's my actual face. No. And like they expose the they they ah they show like her exposed underskin face. It is wild. And then Sasquatch just goes, whoa. it is like a it's ah
01:07:40
Speaker
But as her face is exposed to the air, she crumbles into dust. So does her robot body. Wait. And so does the whole lab. Wait, what?
01:07:51
Speaker
When Walter and a I think she dies. I think that's what we're supposed to No, why did we read this?
01:08:03
Speaker
Come on. We have the first good villain in all of fucking Alpha Flight. No.
01:08:13
Speaker
When Walter and Aurora escape, the dust settles. They find that the majority of the mansion is still perfectly intact and that all the furnishings and stuff inside have disappeared. Walter wonders why Aurora didn't use her powers to escape Lily earlier and surmises that there must be a third personality emerging between Jean-Marie and Aurora.
01:08:34
Speaker
To be continued. Damn it. You killed my only, you killed my only friend. It's so stupid. They, why would you continue to stay here after a villain ambushed and, and defeated you?
01:08:56
Speaker
And just because you can't find a sign of of the torture lab that was here before. And the house is clearly part of her magic, right? Because so much of the house disappeared. So, like, right how much of this house is actually, like, an evil construct?
01:09:15
Speaker
yeah Exactly. it's And the the whole setup we got for it being, like, let's move in a creepy haunted house... maybe they'll go maybe Maybe he's taking it in like a poltergeist direction. They're like, let's move in. well I mean, it's and it's similar to um Lee Forrester.
01:09:34
Speaker
Or the X-Men, being like, let's live in this creepy Cthulhu island. Oh, yeah, sure, I guess so. Also, this just continues to show how little John Byrne cares about Alpha Flight, right? Not only does he keep doing into like pages and pages and pages where he doesn't do anything. He's either reprinting old material or there's no drawings or there's no words. like Yeah, yeah. He'll only do half an issue ever. Very few pages where there's no words. Yeah.
01:10:02
Speaker
yeah but he's also not like this is it he brought Diablo into this he just keeps bringing Fantastic Four villains in right remember when like he brought name and just Fantastic Four characters Namor and Invisible Woman were in the first arc yeah the fake fan or fake uh human torch right and this yeah the hu the super scroll that turned out to be a super scroll And now Diablo.
01:10:31
Speaker
He just doesn't want to create shit. He's just like, he's only doing this out of contractual obligation. He hates he hates doing Alpha Flight. Can you believe his name is actually Steven Diablo?
01:10:45
Speaker
Why wouldn't come up with something more subtle for if you were a villain? Well, it's actually it's so funny. His name is Esteban Corazon de Abloh.
01:11:00
Speaker
Oh, it's like a it's like a Tom Morrow sort of thing. Yeah, it's not that though. It's just the worst. That's pretty bad. Yeah, but that's Silver Age. That's the that's not John Burns fault.
01:11:12
Speaker
Unless he just came up with it for this story, like unless this wasn't part of Diablo's background before. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, he's also writing Fantastic Four at this time. So, well, we're not following Fantastic Four.
01:11:27
Speaker
And we refuse to. All right, Patrick. Yeah, I would love to tell you about this little comic book I read. um Just just this week is oh alpha flight number 20.
01:11:41
Speaker
You want it? I would love that. Okay. Yeah, it's ah Alpha Flight number 22. It's called Rub Out. Ew. It's written and drawn by John Byrne, embellished by Bob Wyacek, colored by and Yankus lettered by Rick Parker, edited by Dennis O'Neill.
01:12:05
Speaker
ah And editor the editor in chief is ah Joseph of Nazareth. Release january twenty ninth nineteen eighty five covered date, May
01:12:25
Speaker
what's up not just echoing echoing your thoughts here We open on North Star, opening the door to his house only to find Jean Marie. She insists he call her Jean Marie coming in from the cold in only a bikini.
01:12:40
Speaker
This is where it's relevant because that's concerning. This personality has missed him and needs his help. When he asks about Walter, Jean-Marie is disgusted by her alternate personality's behavior and explains what happened. There's a second here I took a note because she's like, he's like, weren't you living with Walter? And she was like, how dare you? And I was like, and oh this again? Like, he's just, saying he's saying facts. He's not impugning your character. but then Yeah, yeah. She apologizes. And I was like, okay, fine. Yeah, very reasonable.
01:13:12
Speaker
After the incident in the haunted mansion, Walter was escorting them back to the mainland via boat. She was still barely wearing anything, shivering from the cold. then he couldn't find clothes. Then Walter started kissing her and putting his hands on her.
01:13:29
Speaker
Jean-Marie was disgusted by this. Only Aurora is interested in Walter and immediately flew away in just her bikini. She flew through the snow like this for three straight days until she arrived here at her brother's house.
01:13:42
Speaker
Three days. i want to say she must not be very vulnerable to cold if she can fly through the northern reaches of Canada in the snow, way high up in the sky in a bikini for three days. Well, so she does actually in the two issues ago, she does mention that like typically she is always acclimated to the weather. So it doesn't matter what she's wearing.
01:14:12
Speaker
But with Jean Marie coming through a little stronger, like more recently, she's been feeling more vulnerable to the weather. But yeah, so but weird.
01:14:24
Speaker
Weird. Right. I agree. But also what I'm saying is like not so vulnerable to the weather that she can't fly across tundras way high up in the air in a bikini for three days. Well, she can't even fly as Jean Marie.
01:14:38
Speaker
so like Right. So this strange that Jean Marie has powers now, right? In the first place. Yeah, yeah. But she is... I see what you're saying. But she is cold. She is complaining that she's cold. Yeah, yeah. not She's not... Yeah.
01:14:51
Speaker
But she hasn't sustained damage from it. Yeah, yeah.
01:14:56
Speaker
Northstar has his yeah his... The lady friend roommate that lives at his house. They just... they
01:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, go off, King. It's just this thing, like, this guy this guy and her his sister live at Northstar's house. And they're just friends who just live at Northstar's house. And it's, again, very, like we talked about last time, very clearly, they just can't say he's gay. Yeah, they can't say, this is his boyfriend.
01:15:27
Speaker
He has a live-in boyfriend, but to make it not his boyfriend, there's also a girl there. So you could have plausible deniability. and which it's Which wasn't uncommon for the time for a gay man to have to like oh figure out a way to make their living situation presentable or not gay. Their boyfriend's sister might move in.
01:15:54
Speaker
So it's like, People can draw the conclusions. Oh, he's dating her and the brother is living there rather than the reverse. Yeah. Right. So it's.
01:16:05
Speaker
But I not to say that, like, you should still in a comic book be able to say this Oh, yeah. And this guy's gay. Yes. But which they won't be able to do until like the fucking 90s. And then Scott Lobdell gets in trouble for it.
01:16:20
Speaker
He like has to sneak it in and then he gets in trouble. Yeah. Anyway. While this lady, what's her name too? rhonda Rhonda. While Rhonda's taking Jean Marie to bed, he wonders if this could be a regression of her schizophrenia. One combining the behaviors of Jean Marie with the access to power that Aurora has.
01:16:43
Speaker
If they're getting along again, maybe he could even rejoin Alpha Flight. Wouldn't that rule? Yeah, well, what he seems to be saying, though, here, i think that is ah that is a thought, right? That is a thought that we have when we're reading this. But what he's saying here is, what if me and Aurora could be a team outside of Alpha Flight? What if I could still be a superhero and I don't have to go back to stupid fucking Alpha Flight?
01:17:11
Speaker
Oh, I read it differently. Readers, you make the call. Ha ha ha ha ha. um We cut to Vancouver where Heather and Elizabeth walk through the rain wondering what's taking Walter so long to get to them.
01:17:26
Speaker
The conversation is interrupted though when Heather sees the face of James McDonald in the crowd. how would she How would she know? What? He's just the most normal looking guy. He does just look like an an average dude. Like guy.
01:17:42
Speaker
She shouts and chases after him, but the man runs away and Heather trips in her pursuit. Elizabeth follows to pick her up and remind her that, yo, your husband is dead.
01:17:55
Speaker
It's a little insensitive. She's like, your husband, but isn't he dead?
01:18:03
Speaker
Cut back to North Star taking his sister to the circus. Ooh. Yeah, just that's what you do when your sister shows up out of nowhere. Let's to the circus. Hey, why don't I just take you to the circus real quick? This isn't a visit for pleasure, though. Oh.
01:18:20
Speaker
Jean-Paul received a letter from an old friend asking for his help. As they pull up, this old friend, Clementine de Arbenville... Runs up and open mouth kisses him. A lot of this. lot of this here. There's a point later where ah Aurora is trying to explain to someone what happened. And he she goes, he was with a woman.
01:18:47
Speaker
After introduction, she gets down to her request for help. She runs a circus. Okay. And recently hired a new thousand pound woman, Pink Pearl. Hmm.
01:19:01
Speaker
Ever since, her performers have been plagued by mysterious injuries. And each time, Pearl has just happened to have a friend that could replace him.
01:19:11
Speaker
The human skeleton, the strongman, the bearded lady. They've all been replaced by her associates. At that moment, Pearl busts through the door and punches Clem square in the face, telling her she should have kept her mouth shut about all this.
01:19:26
Speaker
There is a demon bear panel here. where k Clem is small in the foreground of the panel. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. And the rest of the page is taken up by pink Pearl. So instead of a giant demon bear, it's just a fat woman. She is So she is just for ah a little context here. Cause you didn't mention it in your recap. Oh, sorry. i should have thought about this. An extremely large woman in a very form-fitting pink dress and like a big blonde beehive hairdo.
01:20:04
Speaker
her face She kind of looks like the Trunchbull from Matilda if the Trunchbull gained, i don't know, 400 pounds? Yeah, sure. But also with like, with muscle.
01:20:20
Speaker
Well, like the trunchbull. Yes. yeah She's got muscle. She's covered in fat. And she has a skin tight pink dress on with frills. um Looks kind of like a nightie.
01:20:32
Speaker
She sticks her skeleton man on North Star, wrapping him up before he can react. This guy rules. Wrapping him before he can react and then smothers Jean Marie in her breast until Jean Marie passes out. I love this. Yeah. This is... The skeleton man just wraps himself around like a fucking...
01:20:53
Speaker
He's like a contortionist and you just ties it like Reed Richards would ties him in a knot. It looks so cool. And John and Jean Paul is so fucking fashionable in his sweater vest and his fucking blue striped shirt with a collar and his tie and his great man. And then this guy wrapped this whole this this issue is so cool looking.
01:21:16
Speaker
It's
Moose Jaw's Living Metal Box Robot
01:21:17
Speaker
extreme. Also, a very cool little character note about the skeleton man. He calls ah everybody tubby. sees He's got Jean-Paul locked up. Jean-Paul is a professional athlete. He is yeah not in any way a chubby man, but the the skeleton man wraps him up and he's like, be still, fatso. Because he's tiny. He's like, ugh.
01:21:42
Speaker
look
01:21:44
Speaker
ah Also, it another visual note, Jean Marais' new hair sucks ass. Yeah, it's like the... yeah They would call it the Karen cut these days, right? It's bad enough when it was...
01:22:01
Speaker
the aurora went like the ah way aurora styles it but then jean marie like slicks it back hooks it behind her ear and it looks yeah yeah it looks like absolutely it looks like somebody forgot to draw the rest of her hair just like his face gets straight like john byrne stretches her face out when she does that like her hair is so tight back that her her face is affected by it yeah yeah it looks it looks so rough um Cut to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, where we get a sneak peek of the new box robot in action that Roger Box and Madison Jeffries rebuilt together. It looks fucking rad.
01:22:44
Speaker
It does look rad. It's made of living metal. Yeah, I forgot to mention this in my recap, but yeah there's a it's It's unclear if this... What's that? You don't have to say it like that. It's okay.
01:22:58
Speaker
It's unclear. I don't think this is a Roger Box power, right? I think this is the power of the suit. Yes. Where you can phase in and out of it.
01:23:09
Speaker
But only Roger Box can. it's like It's a metal that's attuned to his... They didn't say DNA, but I would assume dna Yeah, so nobody else can take it over ever again. But yeah, he can phase in and out of it. And remember, Roger Box is he's got a tubby torso and a tubby face, but big muscly arms and no legs.
01:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And the note ah Madison Jeffries makes a point of pointing out that like He's going to be in the suit now, not controlling the suit from a computer room nearby, which means that if the suit gets hurt, he gets hurt. If the if the suit loses an arm, he loses an arm. Yeah. And he's like, hell yeah, brother. And oh, yeah. And for visual reference, Madison Jeffries looks like a fucking cool Canadian redneck.
01:24:03
Speaker
Yes. Like just the coolest. He's cool. like Like a scumbag. Like a scumbag that you'd be like, I love this guy. i love this guy. Your favorite scumbag. Like I'm happy. Like when the the sort of scumbag that walks into the room and you're like, yes, I'm so glad he's here today.
Circus Confrontation & Pearl's Plan
01:24:22
Speaker
Yeah. Back to the circus, where Clem, Jean-Paul, and Jean-Marie are tied up as Pearl explains her master plan. She's got a low-grade nuclear device that she's been hiding here under the circus tent with enough firepower to blow up the whole surrounding town. And in just a few days, this town is hosting a meeting between the Prime Minister of Canada and the President of America to agree on implementing a new missile defense system.
01:24:51
Speaker
Pearl's employers, which they heavily imply is like either revolutionaries or, well, probably the Soviets. it's i think it's. Yeah, probably the Russians. It's in the 80s. Pearl's employers don't want that to happen, so she's going to blow them up.
01:25:05
Speaker
Not her employers, the president and the prime minister. but Yeah, yeah. um if If that wasn't clear. What's worse, Pearl knows about Clem's background as a slightly violent revolutionary. Yeah.
01:25:18
Speaker
It's ah one battle after another. ah Yeah, yeah. cle She retired from her revolutionary ways and started a circus. Yeah, and so did Northstar. He retired and became a professional skier. was also a member of this group, which we already knew from a previous issue.
01:25:37
Speaker
Right. And the feds will find the same background when they dig into the explosion and pin it all on her. Aurora now. Yeah. Yeah. If I tie myself to somebody that I know is already already has terrorist leanings.
01:25:53
Speaker
And then I do something criminal. They'll assume was a terrorist. They're going to go right to her. Yeah. Aurora, now speaking plain English, reveals that she and her brother are members of Alpha Flight and calls North Star into action. The two start flying around, beating the shit out of circus freaks with guns. I yeah love seeing just like a bearded woman with a Tommy gun.
01:26:16
Speaker
Getting just kicked in the face by a glowing Aurora flying in the air. And fucking Northstar just looking so cool with his hands tied behind his back. God damn. Just zip it around, kicking folk.
01:26:27
Speaker
Yeah. Um... Pearl manages to tackle Aurora, though, and insists on torturing her, holding her up so the skeleton man can start throwing daggers at her. Yeesh.
01:26:39
Speaker
But as he winds up, k Clem tackles him, and the knife goes off target, striking Pearl straight in the chest. She collapses! There's another, it's one of those comic book isms where Aurora's like, she's alive.
01:26:56
Speaker
i know she just got stabbed in the chest and the knife is lodged in there, but. Yeah. It's, it's lodged in the fat. She said, oh, it hit the fat. And if, if a knife goes into your fat.
01:27:08
Speaker
And not your heart. You don't fall over like you're dead. it's a Yeah, she got stabbed in the fucking heart. do you see Yeah, the knife is in her heart. A short time later, the authorities wrap up the situation while Northstar and Aurora catch up. Aurora is disgusted by Jean Murray's weakness and would never have gone running back to Jean-Paul.
Discussion on Alpha Flight #23 & Snowbird's Vision
01:27:27
Speaker
But now that she knows he has ties to slightly violent revolutionaries, she's going to make sure he's never welcome in Alpha Flight again! Hmm.
01:27:39
Speaker
Kind of a shame. I thought i really thought like this was going to be in evolution where Jean Marie and Sean Paul start working together again. But yeah, ultimately, we're back to status quo by the end of this.
01:27:54
Speaker
I can't believe that John Byrne can't think of anything better to do with them. Like he and introduces this duo and the first and only thought he has for them is break them up.
01:28:04
Speaker
Break them up. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Pat, I'm freaking bored. Why don't you tell me about a comic book you read recently? No, Matt, I'm freaking bored. So I'm going to tell you about a comic book I read recently.
01:28:19
Speaker
right. it it It always has to be your way. I'll listen. This is called Alpha Flight number 23, Night of the Beast. Sounds interesting. I'll listen.
01:28:31
Speaker
John Burns, story in pencils, Bob Wyacek embellishing, Keith Williams, inking assistant, and he yank us coloring, Rick Parker lettering, Danny O'Neill. We're back to Danny O'Neill. Yeah, he tried it out and he was like, no, I sound like a conceited prick.
01:28:47
Speaker
It sounds like an accountant. He's our editor. And then finally, Chimp Shumai, editor in chief.
01:28:58
Speaker
Release date March 5th, 1985. Cover date June, 1985. I had Chinese food for dinner.
01:29:07
Speaker
Our issue opens on Narya, a.k.a. Snowbird's true form amidst a field of spikes being tortured by the gods of the north. She begs for answers and the gods say that she has betrayed them.
01:29:19
Speaker
How? She asks. I was put on the earth to go fight the great beasts and I've defeated everyone I've come across. yeah Everyone, gods ask, and show her the form of Sasquatch. What?
01:29:34
Speaker
Anne wakes in a panic back in snowbird form on Doug Thompson's couch where she explains to him in order to vindicate herself, she must destroy one of her closest friends.
01:29:45
Speaker
Okay. Okay, we got Doug Thompson back. Doug Thompson's back. He's wearing a gold chain. Okay.
01:29:57
Speaker
ah Sasquatch is one of Snowbird's closest friends. they Well, she did.
01:30:09
Speaker
No. Yeah. I don't know where that, where they formed to that relationship. Um,
01:30:16
Speaker
um Poor, poor Doug Thompson, just to like try to console your girlfriend. And she's like, there's nothing you can do. i have to go kill one of my closest friends.
01:30:31
Speaker
It's like, God damn it. I used to just be a cop. Yeah. i At the gym, Puck is wrestling with Talisman, teaching her some moves.
01:30:43
Speaker
She's apparently part of the team now. yeah Walter Lankowski shows up, concerned about Heather, believing she saw Mac last issue. They discuss how unlikely it is that if any of Alpha Flight died, they'd come back to life like the big superheroes.
01:30:59
Speaker
Yeah, a bit of a nod to the audience here from John Byrne. Like, yeah, these guys, if the when these guys die, they don't come back, but they die. It's also maybe a bit of foreshadowing. Or or do they? or do they? It's interesting that Walter Lankowski is saying this.
01:31:19
Speaker
Suddenly, Aurora zips in to tell everyone that there's a big supervillain trashing downtown Vancouver. ah Finally, the gang's back together.
01:31:32
Speaker
and there's a supervillain for once, Alpha Flight. Has it their own guy to fight as a full team. Yes. Okay. All right. you took we thought we thought that it was goingnna We thought it was going to be fucking ah Gilded Lily. It's not. So now it's there's a new there's a super villain. There's a new guy. And we it has been more than a year since we last saw the full team together. I got so geeked when I finally saw everybody in the same room for a moment here.
Battle in Vancouver: Alpha Flight vs. Calibur
01:32:05
Speaker
When they get there, a big armored man named Calibur is blasting some cop cars with his giant arm guns. He's thrilled to see Alpha Flight to give him a real challenge and blast Sasquatch in the chest.
01:32:19
Speaker
Somehow the blast actually hurts Walter. And while he recovers, Puck and Talisman distract Calibur and Aurora blinds him with a big flash of light. So Talisman's power here is just kind of my hands glow a little.
01:32:35
Speaker
she' like look Hey, look over here. Look here. Look here.
01:32:41
Speaker
Sasquatch recovers and trashes the dude, then stomps off to be alone while he tends to his wound. Everyone is concerned as he's been going through those weird rages more and more every time he's injured.
01:32:53
Speaker
In that moment, Snowbird swoops in, morphs into a giant s snow owl and plunges her talons into Walter's chest. Aurora leaps into action, but the two women are quickly swatted away as Sasquatch recovers.
01:33:07
Speaker
A strange Shakespearean voice emanates from Sasquatch as he thanks Aurora and proceeds to strangle her with her own scarf. Talisman senses magic and rushes in to try and control the mystic forces surrounding the seemingly possessed Sasquatch.
01:33:24
Speaker
After she tells Puck, go go tend to the bird girl. LAUGHTER doesn't know her name.
01:33:35
Speaker
It's also very funny for her to be like they're in a situation where there's no magic being fired at her. So she's like, actually, this is an ancient magic ground that that they just built over. So I can pull magic here. I found some magic. if Everybody, don't worry. I found some magic.
01:33:55
Speaker
ah With a distorted, demonic face, Sasquatch smiles and Talisman collapses in pain. He's somehow resisting her magically and it's draining her energy away.
01:34:08
Speaker
As this is happening, Snowbird explains to Puck that Sasquatch was never truly Walter Lankowski. Walter was in the far north trying to replicate the Gamma accident that transformed Bruce Banner into the Hulk, as we all know, when he suddenly found himself able to transform into Sasquatch instead. He believed this meant his experiments were a success, but what actually happened was that his Gamma experiments weakened the barrier that imprisoned the Great Beasts.
01:34:35
Speaker
In that time, a great beast called Tanerak passed through and took refuge in Walter's body. When Walter was under stress or in danger or angry, Tanerak would take control and with each transformation gained strength over Walter's personality.
01:34:50
Speaker
Now he has fully broken through and taken over Walter's body entirely. So Walter's only accomplishment in life...
01:35:01
Speaker
Turns out to have actually been a complete failure. and this The Sasquatch thing wasn't even a scientific advancement. It was a demon. a god A god was looking at him. A demon god was looking at him and going, this guy, this guy's such a fucking rube. I'll i'll make him think that that this is his own power and I will possess him.
01:35:24
Speaker
Like, I can use this idiot. And then he just told everybody, he must have fudged the scientific results that he showed people to be like, see, you're right. Oh my God. Yeah.
01:35:36
Speaker
Cause he was like, here look, this shows my cells mutating, but they did fucking. Yeah. Um, do you think the great beasts all make fun of Tundra because he doesn't have a Q in his name? yeah in Tundra.
01:35:49
Speaker
call What happened? Colomac, Rayanac, Talamac and Tundra. Yeah.
01:35:58
Speaker
I just before we move on this fucking rules the idea that Sasquatch who we thought was well you and I didn't but who were supposed to consider as a hero but actually made a huge fucking mistake and the power that he thought he had isn't his it's actually someone corrupting him from inside and that he's been setting this up forever like john byrne actually has been setting up a plot and following through like that's also cool uh yes yeah do you think that this was like the idea with him from day one
01:36:43
Speaker
I don't think day one, but I think, but it's at least been going on for the last 12 issues, right? Oh yeah. I guess once the rages started, that was the. Yeah. Yeah. Snowbird has an idea.
01:36:57
Speaker
The Walter was not from the North. He nevertheless conducted his experiments there. So technically Sasquatch is a beast of the North. And so Snowbird is able to transform herself into a white version of Sasquatch. Remember she can only do white.
01:37:14
Speaker
And she dukes it out in a savage battle with Tanerak. Okay. there we're We're not going to be able to pause in a minute because we're going to get to a really dramatic moment. But what fucking. All right.
01:37:24
Speaker
We got to talk about Snowverse powers.
01:37:28
Speaker
If you can change on a technicality. Then there's something about your powers that.
01:37:39
Speaker
isn't true right like there's something yeah yeah this you nature doesn't work on technicalities that's ah yeah this is this is like she can transform into anything she wants she just like she refuses to do anything that's not a beast of the north right like that has to be it right what i mean you could argue and i'm arguing with myself here that nature is all technicalities. So right it is the hard interpretation of this rule that if this creature was created in Canada,
01:38:22
Speaker
the or i I can't, I guess, her borders adhere to Canada. She just keeps saying the North. Yeah, i think it is I think it is parts, I think it is specific parts of Canada. I think yeah it has to be in like,
01:38:35
Speaker
the very north, but I don't know what to find. Yeah, yeah. Okay. um But also, yeah, like if she, but here's the thing. If she discovered, oh, I, you know what? Actually, I just realized I can transform into, she wouldn't have to sit there and justify it to the audience, like to everybody watching, right? She would just fucking do it.
01:38:58
Speaker
Sure. has to sit there and go like, actually, you know what? I've been thinking about it and I think you are technically, so, I guess I could. this is just John. We don't need you to debate it. We will believe you if you just say she turns into a Sasquatch. Yes. Yes. Yeah. i So the two of them fight after a few minutes of destruction.
01:39:23
Speaker
Snowbird decides to end the battle by ripping out Sasquatch's fucking heart. Yeah. Literally, yeah. The body of Walter Lankowski transformed back into a human falls to the ground dead. Without a heart. with miss a Yeah, with a cavity in his chest.
01:39:46
Speaker
They have fall face down so we can't see it. And same with his heart. we can't We can only see a little bit of red peeking through her hands. Yeah, yeah. Aurora and Talisman react in shock and anger that Snowbird could do this to a friend, but she said it was necessary to destroy Walter's physical form while Tannerak had control of it.
01:40:08
Speaker
Wait, Puck notices, you said physical form, eh?
01:40:15
Speaker
Aha, Snowbird basically says, you've solved my riddle. ah ah She tells them that Walter's soul likely still exists intact and they can save him if they travel to the kingdom of the beasts to be continued. Next episode.
01:40:35
Speaker
I hope they don't see him. Not next episode, like five episodes from now. Yeah, yeah. Cliffhanger. But like you could leave him be. He summoned a great but demon god and eldritch being.
01:40:49
Speaker
Into this earthly plane. And he sucks in every possible way. Yeah. Remember when he killed all those people? Yeah, he's like a he's like a rich kid jock, ah bad scientist with a massive ego.
01:41:04
Speaker
He's a bad superhero. He's a copycat. And he fucked up and summoned a great beast into the world. Yeah. It's a sacrifice.
01:41:17
Speaker
And obviously nobody wants to make that sacrifice, but is it worth pulling all of Alpha Flight into whatever the land of the beasts is that sounds sounds above their weight class?
01:41:33
Speaker
please will Let Walter die. Just let Walter die. It's fine. Let Walter die. Let Walter die. Let Walter die. Let Walter die. Let Walter die.
Character Arcs & John Byrne's Influence
01:41:46
Speaker
All right. What'd you think of this arc? So I enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun reading it and we got our payoff with them reuniting at the end. They immediately start fighting each other, but that's, that's to be expected. Yeah.
01:42:06
Speaker
I, I think what concerns me, and I talked to you a little bit about this as I was reading through, but the one thing that, I get this anxiety when I watch like a really cerebral television show or a movie that sets up all these strange ah things that can be explored that they might not pay off. That like I'm trying to think of an example where like i in Game of Thrones, right? the The show Game of Thrones, that lady in the metal mask shows up.
01:42:46
Speaker
once and tells something to Aria, I think. And she is, she looks rad as hell. I know she plays a stronger role in the books, but that never comes back up. Right. That much of a strong, but yes.
01:43:01
Speaker
And it seemed like a thread we could follow somewhere. It seemed like something they planned on putting in the series later and then just forgot about. And that drives me nuts. I need my sci-fi to be like tight. If you are going to start exploring something, you need to conclude it somehow. I just need some closure on it. Don't yeah leave hanging threads.
01:43:24
Speaker
And honestly, I don't trust John Byrne enough right now to yeah not leave some of these threads hanging. I mean, i think that I think he is bringing some of these threads together here, right? We have... Yeah, yeah, sure. We have Snowbirds, the weird shit that's been happening with Snowbird and the weird shit that's been happening with Sasquatch coming together.
01:43:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And... lightly converging with talisman, but not really. Yeah, I guess because there's the talisman thread that's still hanging. There's the what was Max face doing in the crowd thread that's still hanging. If that's actually a thread or if that's just Heather being um in grief.
01:44:02
Speaker
We have Marina. The hell's going on with Marina? Yeah, Marina's just still gone. We have Northstar and Aurora and their relationship. Whatever's happening with trying to work Aurora. Yeah.
01:44:18
Speaker
So, yeah, you're right. There's a lot. There's a lot that's still up in the air. And are they going to move into this house or not?
01:44:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But I see. I see what you're saying. Still very fun. It's just some of the some of the storylines are starting to amble along a little bit. Sometimes we're just checking on people just to just for them to say hi.
01:44:43
Speaker
I'm go to ask you a question.
01:44:47
Speaker
How many issues do you think John Byrne has left?
01:44:53
Speaker
i This seems like if he is building to something. It seems like we are about to get there. So I can't imagine being that we are, i mean, we're on issue 23. We're coming up on two years of this alpha flight run. that I wouldn't be surprised.
01:45:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves soon. If you had to, if you had to just like, Oh, 10 issues, 10 issues. Okay. All right.
01:45:28
Speaker
We'll find out. Keep listening. So I think there's something really interesting going on here on a sort of deeper level. And I want us to plummet a little bit because. yeah all right.
01:45:43
Speaker
The question is, what does we've been wondering, what does John Byrne think about Alpha Flight? what Does he think that they are failures? Does he think that they're losers? Or does he think this is a superhero team and he doesn't quite realize that every story he writes about them has them failing and sucking and fighting with each other and being ego egotists and um coming up short?
01:46:09
Speaker
Right. Because it's so...
01:46:13
Speaker
reminiscent of like the way that silver age comic book writers wrote characters. Right. And then what does he think about Walter Lankowski?
01:46:25
Speaker
Does he realize Walter Lankowski is a total loser and a jerk and an idiot? right Yeah. Yeah. And I think on some level,
01:46:37
Speaker
Walter Lankowski feels to me like one of the John Byrne inserts. Right. And the other John Byrne insert to me is Puck. And these are the sort of two things that John Byrne thinks about himself. He thinks of himself as this Ernest Hemingway, deep, intellectual, smart guy. right yeah But he also thinks of himself as this handsome hero, or that maybe this is what he wants to be. This handsome hero genius who ah is rich and gets beautiful women all the time.
01:47:10
Speaker
Oh, so you think he sees Walter Lankowski as someone admirable that he sees in himself? Yes. And he sees himself more as Puck.
01:47:23
Speaker
Uh, And like as a guy who is smart and experienced and cool and he puts his weird complicated political views in Puck's mouth. You're short. But, ah you know, literally stunted, right? Like there's things about Puck that are...
01:47:45
Speaker
That hold him back from reaching his potential. And i think John Byrne thinks the same thing about himself. Okay. and Yeah. Yeah. So I, so it's, if we dive deeper into the psyche of John Byrne, right, he never created supervillains for this team and he barely has the team act like heroes.
01:48:03
Speaker
Yeah. So if you look at this, all we've read so far, all 23 issues so far, right. Plus a few X-Men. Right. Walter Lankowski comes across as the villain of this whole thing.
01:48:19
Speaker
And Puck comes across as the hero of the whole thing. Sure.
01:48:25
Speaker
And they're always fighting with each other. These are the two guys who hate each other. Like they've tried, like Walter has tried to kill Puck several times. Yes.
01:48:37
Speaker
So what does this say about John Byrne?
01:48:44
Speaker
Have you considered
01:48:48
Speaker
exactly what you're saying, except that he actually looks at Walter Lankowski as a big loser who's trying to be cool, but is actually fucking up all the time. And that's like his that's the other the flip side of his ego. It's his the self-esteem problem that every artist wrestles with.
01:49:10
Speaker
Right. So he looks at he's like, this is the bully. This is what they think, what people this is what cool people think they are. But they're actually big, dumb idiots. Us losers like me and Puck are actually the cool heroes.
01:49:25
Speaker
Oh, no, I still think that Walter Lankowski can be a self insert like this. Like he's just saying, hey, the cool side of me is Puck. the loser side of me that thinks ah is because Sasquatch. It cannot be clearer to me because of John Burns, what what we read from John Burns and his blog posts and shit and ah the way the the arguments he gets in with other artists and writers, and the jealousy he has that pervades everything he does. It's so clear to me that John Burns hates himself.
01:50:02
Speaker
Yeah, fully. Fully. Real drama queen. um And projects that onto other people. But this is a team of superheroes who hates themselves and is constantly fighting this like internal struggle and like these contradictions of viewpoints and goals that I think...
01:50:26
Speaker
The fact that he didn't want to write Alpha Flight, and he's only doing this so he can actually write Fantastic Four. Now I kind of want to read his Fantastic Four and see what sort of psychology is leaking into that. But almost makes me think he's writing this without thinking too hard about it.
01:50:40
Speaker
And that's why his psychology is leaking so hard onto the page. It's like an autodidactic exercise. He's... ah free writing is that the word what's the word yeah yeah we're just like stream of consciousness stream of consciousness just allow letting his hand print it uh yeah really insightful stuff matt and it makes all of this i think make a lot more sense this is somebody not realizing that he's just writing all the different aspects of his personality onto the page i know i know well
01:51:30
Speaker
and steals take it away pat what what are you doing thought it'd be fun okay everybody this is pat steals and deals All
Steeles and Deals Segment & Closing Remarks
01:51:43
Speaker
right. Yep. It's Pat Steeles and Steeles. Take it away, Pat.
01:51:46
Speaker
i As always, Matt, listeners will know that I have spent my vast, vast fortune ah collecting every issue of X-Men in original issues so that I can get the ads out of them. And then Matt, of course, threw Flight onto our schedule as well. So I had to go out, try to buy the Alpha Flights. But at that point, I was out of money. All I could afford were Issues that didn't come with ads. So.
01:52:17
Speaker
Really? The Alpha Flights don't have ads? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they do sell cheaper comic books. um If you guys have the ones yeah if you've guys ever been to a comic book store, they sell cheaper versions without ads.
01:52:31
Speaker
Not worth it.
01:52:36
Speaker
Anyway, this one is grabbed from a recent issue of X-Men, I believe.
01:52:42
Speaker
For smart people.
01:52:48
Speaker
All right. Now, before we go any further, Matt, what do you think this could be? It's for smart people. That is our big, bold headline. Okay. a Abacus.
01:53:00
Speaker
Hmm. Can I have multiple guesses? Take one more guess. Yeah, yeah. Okay. A. ah ah ah ah ah Encyclopedia. Nope. Neither of those things, idiot. Quit using centuries old erasers. Have the new magic eraser. Its formula doesn't leave crumbs on paper.
01:53:22
Speaker
Ugh.
01:53:25
Speaker
Ugh.
01:53:28
Speaker
So, for smart people, it's the smart man's eraser. ah
01:53:35
Speaker
I've always thought people who used erasers were stupid. Now, Matt, what if I told you that this cost an entire dollar?
01:53:48
Speaker
All of one dollar. Okay, well then it better will last for a thousand years. it's so Right, so a dollar in you are mailing more than $3 to someone get yourself a dollar.
01:54:02
Speaker
twenty twenty six which means you are mailing more than three dollars to someone to get yourself A pencil or on our eraser. Now, I wonder, is this either, is this is this one of two of the worst erasers I've ever used? Number one, the gummy one, the gray gummy ones.
01:54:22
Speaker
Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Hate, hate. hey those are for Those are for ink, I think. Those are supposed to be for like ballpoint pens. Like a big pen. I think they're just artists use them. so that they I don't know. ah but i'm look ah or those really hard white erasers.
01:54:40
Speaker
I think it's one of those. ones that are like like little rocks that are white. And they're rubber, but they're like really fucking hard. I hate them. I hate both of those. And know what?
01:54:50
Speaker
They do leave crumbs. It's just that the crumbs are white instead of pink, so you can't see them. ah Granted, they leave smaller crumbs.
01:55:01
Speaker
ah When the eraser is brand new But give that thing a fucking month and it's starting to crumble.
01:55:13
Speaker
I don't want this. Damn, me
01:55:31
Speaker
Oh, folks, it is that time again. We're at the end of the episode, which means... What does it mean, Pat? It means we got to thank you for listening all the way to the end. And as our thanks to you, we will let you rate, review, comment, like, so subscribe, whatever you can do when you find us on the in media somewhere. Please go nuts. You are more than welcome to tell a friend. ah You know what?
01:56:04
Speaker
Feeling generous today, Matt. I'll even let people join our Patreon. Patreon.com slash MutantMence. Okay. You're only going to let them do it for free, though, so that they only get the ah reading lists, right?
01:56:18
Speaker
No, Matt. I'm going to go ahead and let them pay whatever they want to us. No way. $1 minimum to get access to all the bonus content that we're producing. But they can't pay $100, they?
01:56:33
Speaker
They could if they wanted to pay $100. Again, as thank you from us. This is really generous of you, Matt. I'd let him. That's really. You are a saint. Per month.
01:56:44
Speaker
If you wanted to write into St. Patrick's email corner, you can email us at mutantmenacepod at gmail.com. You can also follow us at mutantmenacepod on Instagram or on YouTube at mutantmenacepodcast.
01:57:01
Speaker
the That's right, Matt. other thing I want to say is thank you to me no to Julius Ellie for the voice of Trish Tilby and to Krils Wilson for all of our awesome fucking music yeah yeah yeah yeah it's true and then that's got to be it right Matt I think that's it except for there's the thing we say at the end of every single episode right our famous sign off so do you want to go ahead and give it or should I yeah well as always folks I'll handle Mr. Mouth here
01:57:33
Speaker
And don't you forget, you are too wise for me, human.