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Episode 63 - New Mutants #29-34 - Reunions & Betrayals
58 Plays3 hours ago
This week we return to the New Mutants, and boy are we glad we did! This story is stuffed with twists and turns so crazy we can't even tell you about em in the description! Plus we get really mad about some editorial choices, which is always a good time. Tune in!
TOPICS DISCUSSED:
Send us your names. X-Men video games. “Bagel.” Cyclops at Pride. The ups and downs of James Idiot. I guess they were swimming? Lila Cheyney returns! Guido Carosella is here!! Thomas Magnum. White Frankenstein. We get so mad about Secret Wars II several times. Horseface. Bill Sienkiewicz says goodbye. TEEHEETEEHEEHAHAHAHOHO. Nude one last time. “When you do that enough times, you can just do it off-panel.” Cairo. A virus called Evil. UNIMPORTANT! Human rug. KAIYAIIPE!
TIMESTAMPS:
1:47 - Pat’s Email Corner
27:40 - New Mutants #29: “Meanwhile, Back at the Mansion…”
50:38 - New Mutants #30 : “The Singer & Her Song”
1:04:34 - New Mutants #31: “Saturday Night Fight”
1:24:20 - New Mutants #32: “To the Ends of the Earth”
1:42:30 - New Mutants #33: “Against All Odds”
2:02:09 - New Mutants #34: “With a Little Bit of Luck!”
2:22:42 - Pat’s Deals ‘n’ Steals
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Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Fan Engagement
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm Trish Toby with WARC reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
00:00:41
Speaker
Hey, I'm Pat Reber. I'm Matt Allcamp. And say it with us, Daniel. well Welcome to Mutant Menace. Man, are we ever going to be able to...
00:00:56
Speaker
say any other besides just like standard dude name are we ever going to be say able to say who else is going to write us in with their name honestly let's get as right now we're just committing the list to memory i would love to make that impossible yes yeah yeah young minutesus potted gmail dot com just email us your name that's that's all we want well we'll say it we want out one other thing too but we can't check up on you You have to then, when your name comes up, you have to say it with us. You have to say it with us. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:31
Speaker
It's polite. It would be polite. It's impolite if you aren't. Right.
Listener Emails & Pat's Segment
00:01:37
Speaker
Pete's flying in every week from Australia. and we don't even say his name most of the time.
00:01:44
Speaker
anymore. So...
00:01:52
Speaker
Whoa. Okay. Okay. Okay. Nope.
00:02:03
Speaker
Can't control this guy. ah Hey. Hopping right into the action today. It is time for Pat's email corner. We got a few here. We forgot to talk about what we're talking about today, so I hope this is a short e Pat's email corner.
00:02:16
Speaker
It will be, but also New Mutants. We're talking about the New Mutants. Yeah, it's the New Mutants today. We'll get there. i we have a new email from Daniel. Hey, Daniel.
00:02:28
Speaker
Daniel writing in says, by God, it's been too long. We just finished our annual Comic-Con in my
Comic-Con Experiences & Nickname for Daniel
00:02:36
Speaker
small town. Worked all three days. Would have invited you guys, but I was told of the date a little late and would have hated to give you guys the option on such short notice.
00:02:46
Speaker
That is a good idea. yeah Folks, if you have a conference. in your town let us know we probably won't show up but but if if it's if you let us know ahead of time enough yeah if you let us know ahead of time we'll at least talk to each other about it yeah yeah we'll be like all isn't it sweet that uh daniel or whatever we'll call them once we get him a nickname but daniel invited us to that oh yeah we got to think of this this week this yeah this episode this is the week i'm sure we got to think we're because we're not putting too much thought into it you know i think our problem last time was we just talked and talked about getting him a nickname and we didn't even get I think yeah so let's not even talk about it let's not even talk at the end of his email we'll just we'll just shoot it off we'll have we yes and we don't need to spend all this time talking about it right now we can just if you talk about it even a little bit on yes as if he has a nickname anything more
00:03:40
Speaker
We'd be putting too effort. It's just it's already, we've done so much talk about it. We've already talked a like a lot about it, right? In the past, yeah. No, I mean today, just now. And I'm having, giving giving lot of. You're right, the moment's gone.
00:03:54
Speaker
Maybe next, maybe next week. Keep emailing in, Daniel. Okay, what did he say even? He is giving us his usual several talking points today.
X-Men Games Discussion
00:04:04
Speaker
It is 21. So get your random number generator ready, Matt.
00:04:08
Speaker
Between one and 21. And then while you do, I'll read through his responses to the introductions to episodes 54 to 60. Okay. okay ah One, my first run in with Life Death wasn't in X-Men 97, but actually in a really unknown X-Men fighting game, X-Men Next Dimension.
00:04:31
Speaker
I remember that game. Yeah. 3D fighter on the PS2 and Xbox that is actually the third in its series. And I wish to high heaven we get another game like it today. It was poorly received due to its short story mode, high difficulty, long load times and lack of save points. I can absolutely yeah understand that. Yes.
00:04:50
Speaker
ah The game had a stacked X-Men cast and sadly a few repeat characters and different skins. Yeah, it was ah it was bad, actually. it was ah There was a bunch of X-Men fighting games. There was like Mutant Academy, Mutant Academy 2, and the Next Dimension. And they were so...
00:05:07
Speaker
clunky and blocky and slow and the ugly. What shame. <unk> Has there been a good X-Men? think we've talked about this before, but there's not like a definitively good X-Men game, right? No, the SNES one was kind of fun. Each X-Men had their own individual
Marvel Ultimate Alliance & Game Mechanics
00:05:26
Speaker
level that was based around their powers.
00:05:29
Speaker
And X-Men ah Legends was was okay. Wasn't done as well as um Marvel Ultimate Alliance. like that would Marvel Ultimate Alliance would kind of perfect that formula, but you can make a little team of X-Men and walk around and use their individual powers. But it was just it was a lot to handle. So even Ultimate Alliance, they tried to do an Ultimate Alliance 2 and people were like, eh.
00:05:55
Speaker
No, thanks. I think it was like it was like a one and done. They did Edgeman Legends 1, 2, then Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1 and 2. And I think maybe they even tried for a 3. But it's like... They did.
00:06:08
Speaker
and and All anybody can stomach of those games is 1. i so I played through two first, I think. I played through two before playing through one, and I enjoyed it enough. But but then I'm guessing when you went to one, you got about an hour in and you never finished it.
00:06:26
Speaker
yeah Exactly. Because it is the same game and the same sort of like action over and over again. That's exactly what I mean. I think everybody can stomach one of those games. And when they play it, they're like, this rules. I want to play more of these. And then you go to play a second one and you're like, no, no, no.
00:06:44
Speaker
Oops. So what I would say, the only really good X-Men game is Marvel's Midnight Suns, which is not just X-Men.
Listener Feedback & X-Men Movie Matchups
00:06:52
Speaker
It's got Captain America and it's got Wolverine or it's got Hulk and it's got Doctor Strange. and Yeah, yeah. But Storm, Wolverine, Magic,
00:07:01
Speaker
Deadpool, these are some big characters in the game. And it's it's just got real heavy X-Men energy. And when you're playing it, you're just like, fuck, I want more X-Men characters in this goddamn thing.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, that is that is a good game. It's fun. It's a card strategy game. But yes, you can move past that. It's fun. I think I think the cards really make people stumble because.
00:07:25
Speaker
People don't really love card games, but if you just if you just think of the cards as be kind of like moves like moves that you have in a in a in a set, the strategy game of it is really well done, really well balanced. And yes the story's interesting, and all the stuff you do in between is interesting. The writing's good. It's great.
00:07:47
Speaker
Let's keep moving with Daniel's points. He says, I just came from the days of future past episode to the future episodes and saw that you guys are talking about Rachel Summers doing the same in her timeline.
00:07:58
Speaker
Am I Rachel Summers? Whoa. Maybe that should be Daniel's nickname. Rachel Summers. Wait, you're talking about his nickname again. It's really putting me off coming up with a nickname. you're right. Oh, I ruined it. We were so close. All right. Next time, Daniel. I'm sorry. Daniel Rachel Summers is one to think about. Put it it in the back in your head. Daniel Rachel Summers.
00:08:25
Speaker
ah Next point, Matt. I don't think
X-Men Movies, Comics & Listener Insights
00:08:27
Speaker
you understand. Leaving a review for your show isn't funny. Drinking pilk is.
00:08:38
Speaker
Fair point. You can leave a review and make it entirely about Pilk if you want. i I just have to fill in all five stars. you You can write whatever the fuck you want in the in the text.
00:08:52
Speaker
I will say the emails have slowed down substantially since we stopped talking about Pilk. ah ah
00:09:03
Speaker
Next point. You guys were talking about a Sony Watchman and I thought it was funny because one came into my work the other day. You because remember he works at like a strange retro gadget shop. Oh, cool. And I was showing my boss how the new Silent Hill game has the protagonist use one as sort of a ghost finder.
00:09:20
Speaker
Interesting. Interesting. Do you want me to generate the numbers yet? ah No, we got a couple more points. Notice a lot of nicknames were bestowed in the Cloak and Dagger episode. Just an observation. See, Daniel.
00:09:34
Speaker
Now he brought it up. Damn it. d I was I was so ready to do the nickname. It's got to come up organically is what we're finding. Yeah.
00:09:44
Speaker
Fuck. i He loves our new idea, your new idea of just picking a couple of the points from from past episodes at random.
00:09:56
Speaker
And then I definitely think Pearl was the better movie out of the three. X was made when he thought this was going to fail and it was just a schlocky arthouse horror that turned out to be good. Maxine was terrible.
00:10:07
Speaker
If Mia Goth is an age transforming mutant, does that make the rest of the cast Emma Frost, Bishop, and Cypher? who i remember watching i remember watching that movie i remember telling you i watched that movie i do not remember talking about that movie on the podcast i you i think stretching for something x-men related to to talk about talk talked about watching the x trilogy of movies oh yeah i did And then finally, you guys gotta to slow down on your episode output. I'm falling behind.
00:10:45
Speaker
so we get a couple of cool pictures. We do have the Sony Watchman in front of what looks like a fucking cool Swamp Thing action figure. We can only see the edge of it, but it grows in the dark.
00:10:57
Speaker
Glows in the dark. i And then, yeah, he's got X-Men-y, X-Men-y Uncan, the Uncanny X-Men number 145.
00:11:08
Speaker
slabbed and on his bookshelf next to a bottle of poison.
New Mutants Comic Analysis
00:11:13
Speaker
Okay. This is, all right. So this is a, we've we've done a lot from his email. Are you sure you want to do some random number generation?
00:11:21
Speaker
We have to now. This is the rule. Okay. All right. All right. Generate. Number 17. Number 17. Wolverine Berserker Rage would work great as a sort of byproduct of his mutation, like a sort of feral instinct or animalistic bloodlust. Murder zoomies, if you will.
00:11:39
Speaker
I think that's kind of what it is. But I guess what we are positing is like... Is his Berserker Rage the dark Wolverine, the dark Colossus, the dark Storm? Like, right? Like, every character seemed to have this ultra power mode locked within them that Chris Claremont was sort of playing with and never fully fleshed out. And was Wolverine's Berserker Rage that?
00:12:04
Speaker
Random number generator, eight. Number eight, I think the reality of Scott receiving his head injury from falling out of the plane with Alex, just lame. They could have easily made it where his head injury was from getting beat up by anti-mutant bigots. Fuck, put that in my DSCI list.
00:12:23
Speaker
Dig. Dig so you can innovate. Dig so you can innovate list. Dig so you can innovate list. It's a tech thing. Digging deeper into the story. It's it's tech archaeologists. Say this.
00:12:41
Speaker
No.
00:12:44
Speaker
Uh, should we do one more or are we, are we done? Nope. Two, two and it's over. We got more emails to read. Thank you, Daniel. Up next. I believe this is a new emailer. Oh, new emailer.
00:13:01
Speaker
Casey. Listen, Casey writes in and says, hi guys. Are you going to cover alpha flight? Annual number one by Bill Mantlo. Gosh, I hope so. Thanks, Casey.
00:13:11
Speaker
Uh, yeah.
Weekly Activities & X-Men Character Comparisons
00:13:15
Speaker
Unfortunately, yes, we are. Oh, this is another upsetting one, right? ah No, it's just Bill Mantlo. So it's just going to be so sort of boring. I don't think it's I don't think it's one that upsets me.
00:13:30
Speaker
Is there something impact like why? why is our and Casey very much appreciate the email? But but why? Why ask that?
00:13:41
Speaker
Casey, maybe Casey loves it or Casey wants to make us mad. You know what? I will say penciled by Larry Stroman who fucking rules. So maybe we should read it.
00:13:52
Speaker
Okay. It takes place in, it's 1986, June, 1986. Pat. we are getting there. It's 10 days before I become alive.
00:14:04
Speaker
Before you become a man. don't know about that. All right. One more email to read, Matt. This one is from show best friend, best friend Christy.
00:14:17
Speaker
Oh, OK, cool. Hey, k Christy. Subject line bagel bagel bagel. but She says, hey, Pat, tell Matt that there is absolutely no problem with the way you say bagel. I posit that maybe he just hears it wrong.
00:14:30
Speaker
This comes from episode number 45, where I believe your X-Men related thing from the week was that you ate a bagel with cream cheese. Not sure how that's X-Men related, but I'm not here to judge that. best friend Christy.
00:14:41
Speaker
All right, say it. Say it. Say the word. Bagel. So, you're yeah, you're doing bagel. Bagel. Not bagel. So there's there's three ways to say bagel. yeah There's bagel, B-E-G-G-L-E.
00:14:56
Speaker
There's bagel. B-A-G-G-E-L. Nobody says bagel. Some people say bagel. No, they don't. That's made up for the show community. No, people say bagel. There are people who say bagel. That's where it came from in the show. Okay. And then there's bagel, which is B-A-G-E-L, which is the right thing.
00:15:17
Speaker
Say the first one again, the one that I do. Bagel. And say the correct one. Don't do quotes like that. but Bagel.
00:15:32
Speaker
I don't. bag Bagel versus bagel. Eh. Eh. Bagel. here This is infuriating. You're doing this on purpose.
00:15:58
Speaker
Oh, fuck. Matt. Damn it. Yeah. You okay, buddy? Not anymore.
00:16:08
Speaker
full How about this? How about we talk about a little something called, did you do anything X-Men related this week? I thought you, oh, you tricked me. I thought you were going to forget. ah Did I do anything? Okay, so I'll just tell you some stuff I did this week and you tell me when something's X-Men related. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, so number one,
00:16:30
Speaker
i I took my laptop, my old laptop. It had a broken screen and I disassembled it and I disconnected the screen and took the entire lid off the laptop.
00:16:40
Speaker
And then I slid it behind my television set in my room and plugged it in and hooked it up to the TV via an HDMI cable. So now my bedroom TV is a laptop, is a computer. Yeah, it's that's very Kitty Pryde. Okay, all right.
00:16:59
Speaker
um I watched a lot of, we don't know I watched the first season of Sopranos. Is that anybody? i We haven't reached a point in the X-Men where the Sopranos exists yet, so I don't know.
00:17:12
Speaker
Okay. I played a lot of Mina the Hollower. Again, very kiddie pride. Okay. All right. I've had a very kiddie pride week.
00:17:23
Speaker
Nice. ate a lot of candy, but you gave us three. I ate a lot of candy. Does Kitty and Pride eat candy? She does. She loves sweets. All right, Pat, did you do anything X-Men related this week? I'm going to try the same ah approach here, Matt. Let's see. i cleaned, cleaned the house a bit.
00:17:43
Speaker
ums Every now and then I think of Cyclops as the Danny Tanner of the X-Men. So maybe if we like, but he's, if we're getting little fin mentioned, but we know that he's a
New Mutants Storyline & Jim Shooter's Influence
00:17:53
Speaker
clean freak. yeah we We're getting a little, it's a little like a transitive property, but yeah, I think that's a little Cyclops. All right, keep going.
00:18:02
Speaker
I went to, so there's a community center about a block from me, and they threw a little family-friendly pride festival. So we went up, there's like a big playground there, but also they had a band playing outside, people giving out tacos.
00:18:18
Speaker
Okay, I have- A little taco making station. So legitimately the X-Men thing I did is going to a pride celebration. Well, let's think about Cyclops here again for a second, because Cyclops- That would be the one time his like overly masculine side comes out.
00:18:36
Speaker
I wonder if there's like this. I could see there being some latent homophobia in Scott Summers where he would never mistreat a gay person. Right. But if you take him to a pride fest.
00:18:49
Speaker
Just so everyone knows I'm straight. I'm really straight. He'd like really, he'd like hold onto Madeline's hand so tight and like keep pulling her over and kissing her. And she'd be like, you never do this other times. He's like, what do you mean? And he's your voice is deeper than it usually is. What are no, it's not.
00:19:06
Speaker
He'd keep telling people he's an ally.
00:19:11
Speaker
So I think Cyclops again, because that's what you did when you were there, right? What? No. so Why does this all have to be what Cyclops would do? This week we're talking about the new mutants. Pat.
00:19:26
Speaker
What is you taking my hosting duties just to to move on? that You are right. We're talking about the new mutants, but it's been a little while since we've read a new mutants comic, right?
00:19:42
Speaker
Well, for me and you, because we we pre-recorded some stuff and I went on vacation for a while. When was the last time we put up a new mutants episode? o i guess just like three weeks ago.
00:19:55
Speaker
Maybe it hasn't been that long. No, I guess When's the last time we put up an X-Men episode? What is this podcast? Four weeks ago. so So, where did we leave them? I guess a while, while, while back.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah. Warlock smashed through Asteroid M. On his journey to Earth. Right. Sent Magneto falling through the entire Earth's atmosphere into the ocean.
00:20:26
Speaker
The Bermuda Triangle. Where he almost got hit by a shark. And Lee Forrester found him and brought him to his Cthulhu Island. Right. Right. This weird island. So that'll come up for like a second in these issues. The last time we saw them was during Legion, right?
00:20:44
Speaker
Yes. They were ah on Muir Island. I think it was... Well, it's written down right here. Damien, Moonstar, Cypher, Warlock, Wolfsbane, and Professor X, of course.
Jim Shooter's Impact on Marvel
00:20:58
Speaker
Yes, they had they were the ones. So I guess all the other New Mutants were left behind. i think they had just finished dealing with the Cloak and Dagger thing.
00:21:10
Speaker
Right. Then last episode, Dazzler. Yeah, just last week. Dazzler starred in a movie. And got really famous, but then suddenly got unfamous and then joined a weird theater cult full of mutants that also ran in a secret gladiator arena.
00:21:29
Speaker
Right. Life or death. one i wonder I wonder if that'll come back. i Yeah. Why would I even bring that up? That's weird. i just Just to put people in context if they missed last episode.
00:21:40
Speaker
And then what's happening over at Marvel Comics at this time? ah This time, James Idiot is demanding that every Marvel series write a tie-in to Secret Wars 2.
00:21:52
Speaker
Do you think that's going to affect this read? ah Surely. When a title is going this well, he's not going to force them to fucking shoehorn his dumb bullshit in? God damn it, James Idiot. He sucks so bad. Like, okay.
00:22:09
Speaker
I was reading actually a lot about... Jim Shooter today. Okay. And one of the things about him is that... Was this really just feeling bad? So something... Well, I kind of wanted to know about the end of his tenure because it's coming up soon, right? It's like... I think it's like next year in the comics or two years from now. And it was pretty much like right after Secret Wars 2. So I kind of wanted to see if he got fired because of Secret Wars 2. But I think there's a couple things about...
00:22:43
Speaker
jim shooter that we we kind of overlook the good parts. um and We talked about them a little bit early on, right? Like at the beginning of his tenure, he really put Marvel... He really moved Marvel into the next century, right? You can really tell the difference between the last editor-in-chief and him because comics suddenly feel modern after they had felt so old-timey just like two months earlier. Sure.
00:23:12
Speaker
And I think... and i think what a lot of people have said about him was like, he did a lot of good right at top, and then he shouldn't have stuck around.
00:23:25
Speaker
He stuck around too long, and... He got an ego after Secret Wars 1 sold so well and was just like, I know all these characters better than you and I'm smarter than all of you. And you guys always make fun of me saying I can't write artsy comics. i Like thoughtful comics. I can only write this superhero schlock. But I'm going to show you when I write see write Secret Wars 2 and it's going to be so artsy and so thoughtful. So that's...
00:23:52
Speaker
The other thing people say about him is as an employer, he was really good about standing up for creators and sure yeah yeah really good about making sure people get paid and making sure people get respected by the people above him and making sure that people's creative voices aren't stifled by the people above him.
00:24:17
Speaker
However, He had very strong opinions about people's creative processes. So it'd be like, so this is something that Bill Sienkiewicz said is like Bill Sienkiewicz was like, my entire time I was fighting with Jim Shooter about my artwork. And he was like, you got to make it more like the house style.
00:24:34
Speaker
You got to tone this down. You're not doing an art project here. You're doing the new mutants. But That it was kind of in a jokey way, but it was still consistent. It was still always. Yeah, yeah. That way we're like, there's a seed of truth to this joke because we keep coming back to it. Exactly. Like, you would feel uncomfortable if your boss was doing this all the time. um You'd be like, I know he he actually wants me to change this. But his the people above him were demanding
00:25:07
Speaker
that Bill Sienkiewicz tone it down and stick to the house style. And Jim Shooter was saying, no, he knows what he's doing to the bosses. And then turning around Bill Sienkiewicz and being like, man, you gotta tone it down. What is this? What is this shit? You don't know how to draw like that kind of stuff. And I think that those, those anecdotes that I was reading really encapsulate Jim's stupid. um It's like there are positive things about him, but this is the tip of his. This is the peak of his ego.
00:25:44
Speaker
This is the peak of him thinking he knows better than his creators and trying to force his opinions into every book. Yeah, this is And also when everybody was getting completely sick of this guy.
00:25:57
Speaker
ah Yeah, the good he does certainly doesn't outweigh you because there's a lot of shitty things that he does that don't necessarily touch the X-Men too, so we don't even get to them. But like his ah his no gaze role. in the Yes.
00:26:13
Speaker
He was loudly sexist. Yeah. He was quietly homophobic. Let's pull up the list. and he was And he was that kind of like accidentally racist, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:26:27
Speaker
So... There's a lot to criticize about him, but i just I felt like we're so mean about him that before his absolute crash and burn, which is coming up, we should. I thought maybe it was worth just mentioning there were good things to his tenure. Yeah, we should explain why he lasted for so long. Yes, yeah, yeah. But I mean...
00:26:49
Speaker
I mean, fucking, if his reign had been three years shorter, if he had left in 1985, we would be going, okay, Secret Wars was kind of whack, but Jim Shooter was one of the best editors in Marvel Comics history.
00:27:04
Speaker
Because you wouldn't have had, because most of the things that he did that were absolutely egregious, besides just quietly shutting down projects that we, you know, probably could find with any editor, we wouldn't know about.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. I guess they wouldn't have, like, all the little complaints wouldn't have come out because the big complaints weren't coming out. Yeah, because he wouldn't do his last three years, which is nothing but garbage.
00:27:32
Speaker
Well, with that, Matt, do you want to tell me a little bit about... um Yeah, what, New Mutants number 29? Yeah. yeah Meanwhile, back at the mansion...
00:27:47
Speaker
I think this this is a fucking cool title because immediately you're kind of like, oh, yeah, what have all the other guys been doing this whole time? We don't see ah the mansion once. So ah the effect is there, but.
00:28:02
Speaker
But the they start off getting on a plane or whatever. and this is All right. Writer Chris Claremont, artist Bill Sienkiewicz, letterers Tom Orszakowski and Bill Rosen?
00:28:15
Speaker
Joe. Joe Rosen. Colorist Glynis Oliver. Editor Ann Nocenti. Editor-in-chief Jim Stupid. Release date March 26th, 1985. Cover date 1985.
00:28:27
Speaker
eighty five
00:28:32
Speaker
A half-nude Sam blasts through gate 13 at the Westchester County Airport, carrying a half-nude Ileana in his arms. God, just so quick. it's They're immediately nude. I guess they were swimming the last time we saw them. They're both in bathing suits.
00:28:49
Speaker
I don't think so. I really don't think so. I think the last time we saw them, they were like going they were like in the mansion, caring for... Rain and Bobby.
00:29:01
Speaker
ha i I don't know. i had to make an assumption that they were coming from a swimming pool. they act like this is the the resolution of a cliffhanger.
00:29:12
Speaker
Right? Right. Roberto and Amara are kidnapped. Yeah, and they're like, and they're like they're sit talking about it not like not like in Medias Res, but as if they are following up on the end of a previous issue.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah. Very strange. They're in hot pursuit of Amara and Roberto's kidnappers, but they're too late. They reach the tarmac just as the bad guy plane takes off.
00:29:36
Speaker
ah We do get, yeah if we're keeping count, invulnerable while I blast number 12. Yes. Because he doesn't realize until it's too late how cold it's going to be out on an airport tarmac in the snow when he's just in a bathing suit. He's like, wait, I'm invulnerable while I'm blasting, but not while I'm standing here in my undies on the cold. But wait, why how were they swimming?
00:30:04
Speaker
They're at Westchester Airport. Their school is in Westchester County. It's not like it was warm back home in cold here.
00:30:16
Speaker
i don't know. Matt, we don't know why they're in bathing suits. Okay, I'm sorry.
00:30:23
Speaker
Sam pursues the plane but loses steam and starts freezing to death, plummeting to the ground. if pretty dope right he's chasing an airplane and fucking fails yeah yeah it's like i don't know if i can do this he just starts falling to earth this is something i think about a lot um when because there's a lot of times superheroes chase airplanes or land on airplanes right And man, you must go... Like, couldn't you imagine going from feeling like... That's when a superhero goes from feeling big, like larger than life, to suddenly feeling like human-sized.
00:31:01
Speaker
It's like, oh, they've landed on an airplane now. Now they look so small and so vulnerable. Oh, yeah, yeah. It suddenly you're just being a person again.
00:31:13
Speaker
and And that is what... I think Claremont captures here when it he looks larger than life. He looks like a superhero blasting after an airplane. But as soon as the jets blast in his face and make him stop blasting and fall, you're like, oh, fuck. He is the height of an airplane and he's just a boy.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Bill Sienkiewicz does a great job of like adding the perspective there where he's just like a speck on a landscape falling to the ground. Yeah, it's very good.
00:31:43
Speaker
Ileana saves him as he falls with a teleportation disc, taking him to Limbo, where she's managed to kidnap one of the kidnappers herself. ah yeah She sets Sim on him for an interrogation, and a short while later, Sam and Ileana are going to L.A. Woo!
00:32:04
Speaker
So again, they're in the airport, and then they're in... Limbo. And then they're in Los Angeles. Right. ah We get a Claremontism here.
00:32:15
Speaker
During the interrogation, she says, to coin a phrase, we really do have ways of making you talk. Isn't... and Correct me if I'm wrong here, because I'm not going to look it up, but I believe coining phrase is creating a phrase that gets used as a coined phrase, right? Isn't she using a coined phrase here? I always...
00:32:37
Speaker
i always thought that and I think you're right but Claremont does this all the time where he uses the phrase no to coin a phrase and he's and it's somebody I don't know if he thinks that's it's funny to say like like like as if to say if I'm using a cliche and I'm like uh to make up something entirely new that no one's ever said before And then I yeah use a cliche or if he just doesn't know what coin a phrase is and he thinks it means like putting a coin in a slot like, oh, I've I've saved up all these coined phrases and now I will drop them in the the conversation slot.
00:33:18
Speaker
I'm spending one. It's my entirely made up theory is that he got it wrong the first time. He didn't realize that he was saying it wrong and everybody made fun of him.
00:33:29
Speaker
So he had to be like, no, no, that's what it means. And I'll prove it by using it again and again. No, think about it. If you have a phrase that's a coin and you're going to coin as a verb, you would put that would be putting a coin using a coin.
00:33:48
Speaker
Coining. Otherwise, you would say minting a phrase.
00:33:54
Speaker
right, he's got a good point, actually. Yeah, he's got you there I'm on his side. But because Ileana has limited control over her powers, she teleports them to L.A. a week in the future. oh no.
00:34:08
Speaker
They don't dare try to teleport again. Instead, we get some real butts here also. Oh, yeah. and instead sam blasts them to the only friend he has in this crazy town his girlfriend rock star and intergalactic pirate lila cheney lila's back lila's back she is yeah so happy to see him she's yeah adorable yeah does she invite him places or does she just wait for him to show up and then get really really stoked
00:34:42
Speaker
know their Their boyfriend girlfriend. Pat do you know who this guy that answers the door is. No but immediately I want to see more of him. You should have his own series.
00:34:55
Speaker
Oh you think. Yes. OK. You should have a team. his name His name is guid his name is she calls him Guido is Guido Carousel. If that's a racial slur.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah. If you know, if you at home know who this is, do not email Pat and tell him who it is. Yeah, don't tell me. there's But there's we do get to see more of him.
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah, those who know, know, and I'm excited for you to see more of him. You will get plenty of this guy. and for some reason, there's a tattoo on his head of the number 26 guy.
00:35:36
Speaker
Which I don't think ever appears again. Maybe it appears in more like of these early. But when he becomes a character, he does not have tattoos on his head.
00:35:48
Speaker
Weird. Yeah, I wonder what that is. Maybe this is, maybe one of his mutant powers is he has his, he's only 26 here and he always has his age on his head.
00:35:59
Speaker
But then he like covers it up with makeup. Until he turns 30 that he's embarrassed. He doesn't want people to know. So he covers it up with makeup every day. All right. So she immediately teleports them to her actual home, a Dyson sphere on the far side of the Milky Way galaxy to talk privately.
00:36:15
Speaker
But little did she know that one of her backup singers was teleported along with, them she can just accidentally teleport people, what the fuck? Yeah, I guess. Just everyone in a 20 foot radius. They come along, she she doesn't get to choose. ah This backup singer is a Miss Allison Blair, aka Dazzler.
00:36:37
Speaker
Whoa. Sam explains the situation to them all while Lila tries to tear the clothes she provided off of him. She gives him clothes and doesn't give it. They cut to Ileana and she's still in her bikini just like huddled up on the ground clutching her knees.
00:36:54
Speaker
And we can't even see the bikini in that scene. She might have changed out of her bikini and just be nude. She was like, oh, can I have some clothes? Lila's like, no. No.
00:37:06
Speaker
But you already took away my bathing suit when I was preparing to change. Oops. She teleports away. She teleports back to Earth. sir so Dazzler perks up when she hears the name of the organization that kidnapped their friends, the Gladiators.
00:37:28
Speaker
She tells them her story and they all resolve to go to the next bout and take action.
00:37:35
Speaker
Cut to a prison cell somewhere in the gladiator's compound where Roberto is demanding he be let free before he tears the entire building down. he's got a massive codpiece on he's like wearing gladiator armor yeah he's got like mad max style gladiator armor and when you say massive codpiece matt it is hanging down substantially from his like it's droopy it's a big droopy codpiece
00:38:08
Speaker
be Good for him. Hey, good good good going, man. ah He's also wearing his bathing suit underneath cause because they were swimming, you see. Because they were swimming right before this.
00:38:20
Speaker
To shut him up, in bursts. Axe! Axe! Can you believe Are you kidding What's his power, Pat? Axe!
00:38:32
Speaker
He quickly subdues Roberto with his... Axe power. So that it'll shut up and listen to the holographic projection of Pat Alexander Flynn.
00:38:46
Speaker
you remember that guy? Yeah. what From last week. At this point, were you like, what the fuck? Didn't every everybody say fuck this guy? Yeah. Everybody left him behind. Dr. Doom humiliated him. I knew yeah they shouldn't have just left him there.
00:39:03
Speaker
So remember when we talked about, oh, I was like, oh, he has one more appearance. Yes. This is it. Yeah. Which is interesting and we'll have to talk about later because.
00:39:17
Speaker
All right. He reveals that he's holding several mutant children hostage and will kill them unless Bobby and Amara agree to fight for the gladiators. Amara walks in and confirms they have no choice.
00:39:30
Speaker
Flynn is delighted. the Do it or I kill a bunch of babies. What babies? yeah I have them. I have You want to test me? i have a room full of babies. Trust me. Go ahead and ask me if the babies are real. I will kill all the babies. Sorry. What's that baby?
00:39:47
Speaker
Sorry. The babies just told me they don't want to die. i have a bunch of babies in a room in Canada. i How is this the second time the new mutants end up in a gladiatorial coliseum?
00:40:06
Speaker
They've been going for all drugged up. They've been going for less than 30 issues and twice they've gotten stuck in a coliseum where they're forced to fight each other. Like, Christ, man. All right. Interlude.
00:40:25
Speaker
Magneto. continues to recover on his weird island, getting stronger each day with the help, of course, from Lee Forrester. The two are making out when they're interrupted by a psychic projection of Charles x Xavier.
00:40:37
Speaker
Secret Wars 2 is coming! oh no! The Beyonder is on Earth and Xavier is too weak to help. and Magneto must lead the X-Men! so this is a huge moment.
00:40:54
Speaker
That I don't understand anything about because it's related to Secret Wars 2. Which I think hasn't happened yet. So I think nobody at this moment knows what this is about. Yeah, yeah. And I i get that you're trying to build some mystery here. But Charles x Xavier placing the trust in Magneto to save and lead the X-Men. Yeah.
00:41:20
Speaker
In order to save the world... is a is such like a milestone moment here, and it's tucked into, ah what do you call it, advertainment for Secret Wars 2. Well, I do think there is something...
00:41:42
Speaker
True. About though though the first time they saw Magneto as a hero was when they were fighting the Beyonder. If there's one person you can trust Magneto to lead the X-Men against...
00:41:56
Speaker
but they Okay, it's either like a Nazi or the Beyonder, right? Yeah, yeah. Or the two people that it's like, you know which side Magneto is going to fall on no matter what. So i do think as this catalyst, it makes sense. But it does not feel satisfying as the conclusion or the denouement of the arc in which Magneto has slowly been learning the error of his ways.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, yes, yeah. It's just a it's it's crunching a storyline. And and listen, this is a page of this comic and we're already this upset about it, but it's crunching a year's worth of stories down to like, hey, can we just rush this to the end Can we just make him the the good guy now?
00:42:48
Speaker
Right, like Jim Stupid is like, i when the X-Men show up in this, I already wrote it with Magneto. And Claremont's like, why? oh know. Do it. You were getting there.
00:43:02
Speaker
Back to Los Angeles, where Sam, Eliana, Lila, and Allison make their way into the audience of an underground mutant fighting ring. Above, in a decadent office, a mysterious, silhouetted, very rotund figure is informed by one of her servants that Dazzler has returned, and she's delighted, especially since she's brought two new mutants with her.
00:43:25
Speaker
Now, this is intriguing. Sure. Because the servant is calling this large silhouetted woman master.
00:43:38
Speaker
You knew this was a woman at this point? Yeah, because she's got like... ah Oh, a lot of jewelry. Long witchy fingers with lot wings on them. kind of a so i I made an assumption here, but... ah I think I knew who it was the first time I read it. i don't know how I knew that, but I think I had had it spoiled in some way.
00:43:57
Speaker
I didn't. there's the i think the next issue is where I started picking up on it. but so so but So I was trying to put myself in the headspace of a person who didn't know, and I was like, would I even know this is a woman?
00:44:11
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, yeah. its i you It was clearer. So you were intrigued by this. You were like, who the fuck is this? Yes, because the it's there's a suggestion, too, that like it's somebody that knows the mutants, Dazzler and the mutants, but not somebody that I could recognize.
00:44:29
Speaker
Right, right. So the match begins, and immediately, Allison recognizes her friend Ivich as the first contestant. I didn't, because she's not green, and she's got a Frankenstein head.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah, she's she's green at the end of the issue, but she's she's white person colored at the end. in this initial appearance she is also yeah ah drawn as a frankenstein which i i love that interpretation i wish she had looked like that in beauty and the beast yes yeah yeah uh when she loses the fight though and is about to be struck down dazzler Dazzler, damn it, hops into the arena from the crowd and stuns her foe. But when Ivich turns to execute her foe, Dazzler stops her too.
00:45:23
Speaker
The crowd wants blood and all hell breaks loose. All of the mutants run out for a brawl. this is This is very cool for... ah like two panels before the next beat happens. But Bill Sienkiewicz gets to redraw all the gladiators and just, just try to picture it. Like you should, you should find these images, but Bill Sienkiewicz being like, okay, horseman,
00:45:51
Speaker
super strong lady axe got it i know i know how to draw some weirdos here yeah yeah it's fun and yeah i mean and then obviously dazzlers there and magma and sunspot it's good it's a good it's a good moment and you're like yeah yeah this is about to be so cool And then it's all interrupted when the roof tears itself off the building. Magneto enters with a bellowing, mutants heed my words and obey. He explains the whole deal from earlier and Sam and Ileana follow him, but Amara and Bobby to their surprise say they must stay behind. Because of the because of the babies.
00:46:24
Speaker
Because they can't let the babies die, but the other thing is Secret Wars. How did he know they were here? And fuck it. I don't know. don't even Let's not even talk about it. Here. Magneto needs to be here now.
00:46:36
Speaker
Here's what I want to talk about instead. When they're coming to the arena, Lila Chaney comments on a piece of um graffiti for a band called Nazgul.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yes. And she's like, that was a band until the lead singer went off and killed himself on ah the West Mesa. Apparently.
00:47:03
Speaker
This is a reference to a book called The Armageddon Rag by George R.R. Martin. It was like a book that sold really, really bad. okay And made George R.R. Martin give up writing for a while. And then he just, he kept being an editor, so he stayed in the game. And apparently he also got some screenwriting gigs, and that's what brought him back into the fold. And then he wrote Game of Thrones. But yeah, this was his last novel before Game of Thrones.
00:47:32
Speaker
And he was like, oh, I guess I can't i guess i suck at being a writer. And how do we know that this isn't a reference to Nazgul from Lord of the Rings?
00:47:44
Speaker
Because in the book, The Armageddon Rag, the lead singer of a band called Nazgul was called Hobbit Hobbins and went to the West Mesa and shot himself in the head.
00:47:58
Speaker
ah okay. Okay. Chris Claremont is referencing George R.R. Martin's characters referencing Lord of the Rings. Exactly. Yeah. Okay.
00:48:11
Speaker
Wow. So, yeah, you were you wouldn't be wrong to think, oh, this is a weird way to reference Lord of the Rings. But if you've read that book, which I haven't, I looked this up. um If you've read that book, you would know, oh this there she's summing up the plot of this George R.R. Martin novel.
00:48:28
Speaker
Is...
00:48:31
Speaker
hang on, please go ahead. Cause this, this comment, that panel is completely unnecessary. There's no reason yeah to have that graffiti there to have Lila Chaney comment on it. It's just there for the sake of being there. And it sounds like they're suggesting that the Armageddon rag takes place in the same universe or some version of it, I guess. Yeah, I guess the Armageddon rag takes place in the Marvel universe. Is real in the 616 universe. Well, so is other, like Chris Claremont doesn't know music, I think, um because a lot of times bands that he references in this, in X-Men will either be from books
00:49:16
Speaker
like fictional bands from other books, or they will be bands that he knows personally, like that Marvel Comics ah editors in their free time have a band and references and they're like that's the band that somebody is going out to see.
00:49:36
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Very fun. Very fun fact. Thank you. and I can't. i'd write I'm trying not to sound condescending because that is so bizarre, but still fascinating in its own way.
00:49:50
Speaker
ah Also, when somebody is trying to who is it that is it Amara who's trying to cheer up Bobby? And she's like, what would your hero Thomas Magnum? Yes. when He's like, maybe we should just risk all these it Schrodinger's babies. Yeah.
00:50:10
Speaker
She's like's like, is that what Thomas Magnum would do in this situation? it's like Your hero, Thomas Magnum? No, no, it isn't. It's a good moment.
00:50:23
Speaker
um And the less we say about the end of this issue, the better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good issue, except for the interludes. Yeah. One of which is the ending to conclusion to the issue. Yeah, yeah.
00:50:38
Speaker
All right, Matt. Yeah, Pat. Jeez. That felt so aggressive. Sorry. I'm riled up about the the Secret Wars 2 stuff. but Yeah, it's going to keep making me mad. I'm going to get pretty mad after this one.
00:50:50
Speaker
Why don't we calm them down, take a deep breath, get into New Mutants number 30, the singer and her song. Okay. I wonder who that's about. Ah, man.
00:51:03
Speaker
And just get away from the bad energy of the the end of that last issue. Okay. Yeah. Chris Claremont, of course, writer, Bill Sienkiewicz, artist, Joe Rosen, letterer, Gwyneth Oliver, colorist, and no centi editor, Jim, Matt, we've committed to this bit for so long. i cannot wait until he steps down because I am so sick of making up names. Every single time. I know it's i know it's funny. I know people really enjoy it. yeah We've got to bring it to a stop.
00:51:35
Speaker
Editor-in-chief. Release date April 1985. Cover date August
00:51:44
Speaker
briefly annoyingly Chris Claremont has to wrap up whatever happened in Secret Wars 2, number one, Ileana is now the dark child, and she's brought Kitty Pryde, Cannonball, Dazzler, and Rachel Summers to limbo.
00:51:59
Speaker
They cure her with the soul sword, and magic takes them back to Los Angeles, and we're back where the last issue ended, only swap Lila Shaney with Kitty Pryde and Rachel Summers. All right.
00:52:12
Speaker
Okay. Okay. All right, fucking fine. Whatever. I was wondering where Lila went. too Honestly. She had disappeared towards the end of that last issue.
00:52:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i mean yeah but yeah I mean. So she saw her friends get disappeared. like Like, leave with Magneto, I guess.
00:52:34
Speaker
And she was like, all right, I'll just go home. That was fun. Exactly. This is kind of how she lives her life. Yeah, I guess of guess you're right. Yeah, yeah. But then I guess in Secret Wars number one, make something happens.
00:52:52
Speaker
The X-Men gets split off from Kitty Pryde and Kitty Pryde gets grouped in with what the no i guess the people that that Jim Stupid didn't want to use in Secret Wars 2. Is that what this is? I don't fucking know because now the the Beyonder is like stalking them throughout this whole issue. so And he looks like the Molecule Man for some fucking reason.
00:53:12
Speaker
He looks like fucking Eddie Munster for some reason. He looks like a child. Yeah. He does look like a little boy, but he's got the Molecule Man like zapping the squiggles on his face. Yeah, that's true. and he And he's just like standing around staring at people. And this whole fucking... All right, let's talk about it now, because I don't really talk about it in this... In the recap here? Recap. I think maybe it's like half mentioned. But like fucking... He's just... The whole issue... It's just people going like...
00:53:46
Speaker
Oh, we're, could you believe that we met the Beyonder? We're just ants compared to him. Oh man, he is he's like the power of a god. I don't even know what I believe anymore because he's so powerful. he's My whole existence doesn't make sense now that he's there. We only live at his mercy just over and over and over. and it's like, I don't fucking care.
00:54:05
Speaker
Shut the fuck up. ah Yeah. There's so many times in my life I've read a comic book and been annoyed. like Like, there's a character I like, right? And some writer makes a weird decision with them that I think is bad. And then I'm like, okay, well, either I stop reading this character for a while or I have to read this direction for a little while, right? Or like, ah man, I would have done this so differently and I really wish the version in my head existed on the page.
00:54:35
Speaker
what Whatever. I never get mad.
00:54:43
Speaker
Right. This is the writer's choice. If you're along for the journey, this is yeah i was part of that. Just go read something else is how I normally think about it. But when I read this shit, I get so fucking mad because like I'm mad on behalf of the writers who are writing stories. And then this fucking egotistical guy is like, Actually, i wrote a story where I'm God and I go around into everybody's books and I ruin them.
00:55:09
Speaker
So you have to do that for me. Like, what a piece of shit, dude. And i can't think about, like, when I think of the the books from this era, my brain does not remember, like, this gladiator arc as being part of the New Mutants arc. It's like the New Mutants skipped a year.
00:55:30
Speaker
And if I think really, oh yeah, that was when they did that weird gladiator thing with the beyond. Like, I don't, I can't think about it because it just gets sidetracked by the beyonder and get mad. And there's there's so much meat to this story too. That's like the, the, this, even just this issue, but then through this whole episode, there's so much, this is such an important and cool, strange progression of the new mutants and the X universe in general. And we have to deal with all of this.
00:56:06
Speaker
see like it is this issue specifically, I thought was if you could remove the secret war stuff is very good, but is so,
00:56:17
Speaker
jarring here that even reading the issue after this one, which doesn't go into sequel Wars two stuff. I was like, and I hate this. I know. Yeah. It's, I mean, Claremont is wrapping up some stories that he's been building for years, right? Years.
00:56:32
Speaker
Years. And there's questions that we've had pretty much every question we've had about the new mutants gets answered in this. Like, and I don't, I can't enjoy any of it.
00:56:46
Speaker
there's The only other comic that made me this mad was Bill Mantlo's Alpha Flight. So get ready for that. Oh, great. The one we promised to read on this episode.
00:56:57
Speaker
All right. All right. I'll let you. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Okay. Did you get it all out of your system, Matt? Because... i'm I'm trying, man. I'm just going to try so hard.
00:57:09
Speaker
Okay. i It is... it the Last point on this. It was only a few seconds of this recap, but it is three plus pages of the comic just to work through this and get us back to where we left everybody at the end of the last issue.
00:57:25
Speaker
And they they just keep cutting to these scenes that are a full page of somebody just talking about the Beyonder. It's useless. It sucks. Okay.
00:57:37
Speaker
Dazzler wants to infiltrate the gladiators to save Bobby and Amara, but Kitty is worried that because of her history with them, she can't be trusted. To prove herself to the team and to prove to herself that she can resist the allure of the spotlight, she sneaks off and does it anyway.
00:57:53
Speaker
Although there aren't enough pages to see her do that, so it just happens in between the fucking panels! Yes, yeah, there's clearly pages of action missing here. Mm-hmm. Okay, we got it out. We got it out of our system, Matt. We clearly didn't, but lay yeah, okay.
00:58:10
Speaker
Upon entering the secret mansion where the gladiators live, they make her drink a stronger version of the potion from Beauty and the Beast to prove herself. I'm sure that'll come into, that'll have anything to do with the plot at all.
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah, such a huge turning point here.
00:58:28
Speaker
When she does, the mysterious leader of the gladiators revels in the victory, but preparing for disaster, places a call to General Win-Yak-Koi, Karma's criminal uncle. you remember that guy? I remember him. i remember him. Yeah.
00:58:44
Speaker
He's a prick. He's a real scumbag. Why is he here? That's a weird thing. to why mean Why just randomly bring him here? What did you think? why did At this point, did you have any idea why Win-Yak-Koi is here?
00:58:58
Speaker
General This is when my brain started tingling about the whole thing. Okay. Okay. All right. Kitty also goes undercover with the gladiators as Kat, applying for a job as their techie.
00:59:10
Speaker
She passes Max Rocker's test by fixing some unnamed gadget while Dazzler has her first bout in the arena. She knocks all the other contestants unconscious by singing and projecting her light.
00:59:21
Speaker
Okay. This is... There's a moment here where Kitty as cat is trying to seem like ah a tough guy so she can fit in with the gladiators. And she calls Max horse face.
00:59:35
Speaker
And he's offended by it. Yeah. It's. You need to accept that you have a horse face. because You are the horse man.
00:59:48
Speaker
You are the man with the horse face. Everybody's going to see you and see that you have a horse face on your face. ah When Sunspot and Magma wake back up, Dazzler explains that she's there to help.
01:00:01
Speaker
But Sunspot can see right away that she's conflicted about her addiction to fame. Also, her being there doesn't change anything about the baby hostages. yeah We also learned that Kitty has a radio that can both listen in on Dazzler's conversations and call out to Cannonball, Magic, and Rachel outside the arena. Would have been cool if Claremont had like three more pages so we could have set that up earlier in the issue.
01:00:24
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. She's just suddenly got a smartphone. Like if it could have been like about how she doesn't trust Dazzler. So she like put a bug on her or something. That would have been cool. That would' have been cool. I wonder if that was in Claremont's like original script and then he didn't have fucking room for it because he had to put fucking the Beyonder.
01:00:42
Speaker
No, Beyonder was probably already part of the story.
01:00:48
Speaker
ah During a training session the next day, a fight between Dazzler and the other mutants makes her declare that she's only ever wanted to be a star. And from now on, she looks out for herself only while the shadowy villain watches from a monitor. o Outside the arena, the gang talks about Secret Wars 2 until Kitty lets them know the next fight is on.
01:01:11
Speaker
We're just chatting about it. Yeah. Yeah. You guys hear about this? The Secret Wars 2 coming? You guys hear about this Jim Shooter guy?
01:01:21
Speaker
Kitty phases into the ready room to let Sunspot and Magna know that she checked it out and there are no baby hostages. It was all a bluff. i looked i looked everywhere. I found no babies.
01:01:34
Speaker
I told you they're in Canada. They're remote babies. During this next match, they'll strike at Alexander Flynn while Cannonball, Rachel, and Magic make a big show outside.
01:01:47
Speaker
However, those three are interrupted by the Beyonder. Fuck off. This only stops them for a moment, though, as Cannonball blasts them away. A moment in time, but three pages of the fucking story. Yeah, yeah. So now we've lost six pages to this goddamn...
01:02:02
Speaker
Inside, Kitty goes to find Allison asleep and snoops in her notebook. Kitty! Despite an internal struggle, Allison has decided that she can't chase fame at the cost of her soul.
01:02:13
Speaker
Kitty is proud of her and tries to tell her so, but Allison just stares, tears running down her face. Then she lashes out with her light powers. When Kitty comes to, she's in the arms of the big fat person with hair sticks in their hair and a French accent.
01:02:28
Speaker
Kitty recognizes them. Or her, as we now know. know Cut to the arena where Amara and Bobby wait for the signal, but it doesn't come.
01:02:39
Speaker
Dazzler starts singing behind them, and in front, a giant monster appears. The shadowy villain tells us it's a robot with a kitty inside it. To be continued. All right.
01:02:51
Speaker
So in Dazzler... Beauty and the Beast, rather. The drug existed to make the characters go a little crazy and attack each other even when they didn't want to. It was a way to circumvent the character development happening and create action anyway, right? And they could react to It's like the adrenaline.
01:03:12
Speaker
They could react to it afterwards to to fuel their character development, but if they were having an internal struggle, that wouldn't play out on the page because they would just that it would they the drug's there, so they're gonna fight.
01:03:24
Speaker
In this, every time somebody chooses to fight or not to fight, he gives them all this other motivation. Either yeah they are, as we'll find out, they are somehow being controlled by a way that's not the drug.
01:03:37
Speaker
Or they are making a conscious choice. Like, Dazzler's mad at the other kid at the other people. Or Dazzler sits down and writes in her notebook and is like, you know what? I don't want to do that. Like, she makes this judgment internally.
01:03:51
Speaker
Or... kitty is phased inside of a robot unconscious and just like forced to be there like everybody has these other motive so what the fuck is the point of this drug that they're making this big deal about doesn't come into play at all Yeah, they they make a huge deal about like, this is the pure concentrated form. You're going to be fucking nuts when you take this. And then she takes it and makes her own independent decisions. And just is thoughtful. Yeah.
01:04:27
Speaker
and don know. It doesn't come back. So, but nah, it's gone. It's done. so You could forget about, could forget about that. All right. Do you want to just keep rolling into, because otherwise I'm just going to complain about. that Yeah. We'll just start shouting. Let's, let's keep going.
01:04:41
Speaker
Which we, I'm sure we will do anyway, but new mutants number 31, Saturday night fight. Uh, Chris Claremont's the writer, Bill Sienkiewicz is the artist. Joe Rosen's the letterer, Glynis Oliver's the colorist, and Nisenti's the editor.
01:04:55
Speaker
And Blin-Blooblid is the editor-in-chief. This, Patrick, is the final Bilsenkevich issue. Ooh.
01:05:07
Speaker
He comes back to ink for a little while, but, um I mean, it was really just because Marvel kept demanding he return to the house style. He was only supposed to be on, apparently, for the Demon Bear arc.
01:05:22
Speaker
Oh. It was the Chris Claremont was like, we have a cool idea for you. It's Demon Bear. And he had so much fun and he fell in love with the characters and he was like, ah I'm going to keep i'm to keep going. And then got sick of it, of of being told that he had to switch to the house dial. So this is his last issue.
01:05:43
Speaker
I did not know that. Yeah.
01:05:46
Speaker
So. Release date May 28th, 1985. Cover date September 1985. Pat. Matt. You're alive. i live. You live. At this point in time, you're alive.
01:06:00
Speaker
I've been born again for the first time. You're 25. You were 25 days when this issue came out. Yeah. It's the first thing I ever read.
01:06:11
Speaker
We open with the hulking monster taking on Sunspot and Magma in the arena, seemingly having the advantage despite their power. Should we describe this monster? Yeah, i it is. it it doesn't look like a robot. It looks like a giant man with scoliosis.
01:06:31
Speaker
He's hunched over. He's got huge fucking arms and a huge upper torso and little and little skinny legs, little skinny legs. He's got a big, funny looking head and spikes coming out of his back.
01:06:47
Speaker
Right, and he's got like swords on it. He's wearing a big blue diaper and he's got swords on it. So he's got very pink skin. Yes, and also a big ah a club.
01:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, but yes. club. But yeah, probably 12 feet tall.
01:07:05
Speaker
Dazzler sings at the center stage, putting a light putting on a light show to raise the intensity as the mysterious leader of the gladiators demands somebody kill someone.
01:07:16
Speaker
She reveals that the hulking monster is actually a robot and Kitty is inside of it. She revels in her control over everything. They must be playing music, right? Because Dazzler cannot create light from her own voice.
01:07:32
Speaker
She can't? No. I guess she could be using the roar of the crowd. yeah um in the ring Berto gets psychic encouragement from a mysterious source to make sure he's putting on a good show hey remember when that happened to who did that happen to remember several many issues ago there's like a weird psychic voice that we never learned the origin of it's like no that was issues ago that happened to that was for secret wars one Matt no no we talked about this
01:08:05
Speaker
there was two There was two things going on. Professor Xavier felt a force and a karma had a weird voice in her head. And at the same time, Professor X was also getting psychic feedback from the Beyonder for Secret Wars 1. He was from Secret Wars 1.
01:08:25
Speaker
yeah but Yeah. No, it's it was karma. I think a few issues before she disappeared was psychically wounded by this terrifying message.
01:08:37
Speaker
Right, so now there's a new psychic voice just popping into people's heads, telling them to to kill each other. um No time for that now, though, as the robot monster Kitty strikes at him.
01:08:50
Speaker
He counters with a punch of his own, but it passes right through as if it were a ghost. What? Amara opens a deep fissure under it, but instead of falling in, the monster simply walks on air back to solid ground. What?
01:09:06
Speaker
How cool would it be if we didn't know this was Kitty Pryde in robot suit? Why did they tell us twice? Why did they tell us? Yeah, yeah. and Because she's about to jump out of it. and like well That would have been so fucking cool.
01:09:19
Speaker
Bobby catches on. Okay. But the mysterious leader doesn't seem to care. Kitty, despite her attempts to resist, is still under her control. She commands the robot to kill him.
01:09:31
Speaker
but kitty resists and phases her way out of the robot instead without her it collapses to the ground a fucking cool image way to go kitty once again the crowd wants some action and they get it when dazzler inexplicably starts firing light blasts and amara calling for her head i am so sick of dazzler at this point i can figure it out man Yeah, I mean, thankfully, when she's in the X-Men soon, her story isn't just going to be about, oh, I want fame, and oh, but I have to do terrible things to get fame, and do I want to do this? It won't just be that over and over and over.
01:10:11
Speaker
I think this is a symptom of three different writers writing her in a row, right? It's each of them wanting to tell their version of the story. Yeah. And clearly...
01:10:23
Speaker
And Nocenti and Chris Claremont being friends is helping that because this at least continues the Beauty and the Beast narrative. Right. yeah Which is a lot more effective than the Jim Stupid graphic novel narrative.
01:10:39
Speaker
Man, and the idea of Dazzler releasing a movie and it outing her is that, man, it's such a cool concept. It sucks that it was done so poorly. All right. All right. Take a breath.
01:10:51
Speaker
Kitty immediately recognizes this as some sort of possession from the leader, the the Dazzler, the Dazzler attacking Amara thing, and hurls a spike off of the robot right at her, hoping to break her concentration.
01:11:05
Speaker
At the same moment, Sam blasts into their arena with Rachel and Ileana in hand. Yes. This is a fucking action-y fucking cool shit. Dazzler isn't slowing down, though, and her possessor is exploiting the hero's caution, knowing they don't want to harm her. Ileana solves this by summoning a demon from Limbo who grabs Dazzler and pulls her back through the stepping disc.
01:11:26
Speaker
oh Oh, my goodness. This is so cool. She continues to do this through the rest of this run, and I absolutely love this new technique. It's just like, let me summon a monster.
01:11:37
Speaker
ha ha ha.
01:11:40
Speaker
The gladiators, seeing their friend kidnapped, jump into action and attack the new mutants. But the new mutants, despite being outnumbered, have an advantage. They know how to work as a team.
01:11:51
Speaker
They hold their own until the battle gets so out of hand that the police show up. Ileana brings Dazzler back at Kitty's request, gambling that the trip to Limbo broke her psychic possession, and it pays off as Dazzler is able to calm the gladiators down before anyone gets killed.
01:12:06
Speaker
this is yeah This is nice. I really like the way they wrap this up where like once again you say, you oh my god, it's going to be all out battle. It's every gladiator versus this group of new mutants. And then Dazzler comes in and resolves it by being like, hey, let's take the temperature down a little bit. We're all friends, right? Yeah.
01:12:29
Speaker
Kitty taking charge decides it's time to end this. This was never about Alexander Flynn, she explains. He was just a holographic projection to obscure the psychic woman who is clearly their true leader.
01:12:43
Speaker
So Alex Flynn isn't here? So literally yeah in Marvel Comics, they leave Alex Flynn on the floor of that experimental theater and he and we never see him again.
01:12:55
Speaker
He's impersonated once here and then we never see him again.
01:13:03
Speaker
He's still alive for all we know. Yeah, he's just got a job at like ah the... Trader Joe's or something. ah I'm the son of doom. Yeah, Alex, can you please restock the cheesy balls?
01:13:18
Speaker
How do like these dumplings?
01:13:25
Speaker
She explains that this woman clearly possesses people and the team starts to realize who it could be. who Roberto turns. He punches Sam in the stomach with sunspot strength while Rachel starts firing psychic bolts at the team, both of them clearly speaking someone else's words.
01:13:42
Speaker
Oh, no. What? What the heck, man? Who could this be? Sam finds him blasting to the leader, carrying her high up into the sky before finally recognizing her face. He doesn't want it to be true.
01:13:56
Speaker
But it is. It's their long lost teammate, Karma.
01:14:06
Speaker
The shock of Sam's blast leaves her too weak to continue possessing them, but not too weak to possess simpler minds of her servants. They all bring their own blades to their throats as Karma threatens to have them kill themselves if they don't let her walk free.
01:14:20
Speaker
These aren't babies. Hey, these aren't babies. you You could have done this the whole time? Making up babies to kill?
01:14:33
Speaker
Importantly, Kitten Geek recognizes this behavior as Karma leaves untouched. She would have done the same when she was possessed in Kitty Pryde Wolverine. Ooh.
01:14:44
Speaker
So like they think maybe Karma's possessed, huh? Well... Interesting. not to Not to jump too far ahead, but... Yeah, this is a major point.
01:14:59
Speaker
Like, this is this is a seed of what's to come in the next few issues where Kitty's just like, huh, when I was possessed by a demon, i would have behaved exactly this way.
01:15:12
Speaker
And then it's left right there. So with all the rest of the... shit we've been seeing you could very easily just be like okay here's another non sequitur from kidney pride but actually a pretty important line pretty important line and um it's i mean it's the possessor pat becomes the possessee
01:15:37
Speaker
Possessed. Holy shit. um The team's upset. As a group, they vow to make things right by either saving karma from herself or bringing her to justice.
01:15:49
Speaker
Kitty, Dazzler, and Rachel give the new mutants their blessing and fuck off to reconnect with the X-Men for some more Secret Wars 2 shit or whatever. The gang prepares to go out on their own to be continued.
01:16:03
Speaker
It is there's another Secret Wars to mention here, but the ending here is really cool where Amara Kitty is like, look, let's just get the X-Men here. They'll take care of it. I'm sure they can stop whatever weird Secret Wars 2 stuff they're doing.
01:16:18
Speaker
And Amara specifically is like, Karma's one of us and we take care of our own. So we're going to go get them. You guys go back to the X-Men for some reason. We don't need your help.
01:16:30
Speaker
yeah I don't know. Just a very like... there's the The final panel is them standing bravely preparing to go into a fight they aren't sure they can win. and It's very yeah very powerful. It's also like the goodbye Bilson-Kevich panel, right? So because it's got... Okay, here's some funny shit here. um Sam is fully clothed when he's fighting Karma.
01:16:55
Speaker
And then all of a sudden... for Vilsenkevich's last couple pages, he's just suddenly nude again. Yeah, yeah. He's back in the bathing suit. It's just all of a sudden, Vilsenkevich is like, I can't leave this book without drawing this boy nude one more time.
01:17:13
Speaker
I'm so good at it. Oops, all his clothes fell off. Oops. Oops. You don't even, it doesn't even happen on panel. He's wearing clothes and the next time you see him, he's not, he must have just ripped all his clothes off.
01:17:30
Speaker
Dang I was more comfortable this way. it, I hate these things. um, yeah. um yeah This issue, it still has some dumb stuff, but, like, man, it's it's cool that Sienkiewicz got to do some pretty, like, do an action-packed issue to wrap up. An action-packed issue that also has some, like, really strong story beats, too, that he gets to really, like, lean into.
01:18:00
Speaker
I love, i mean, the karma one aside, because that's obvious, I love the... ah way that he slowly reveals the new mutants being taken over by karma.
01:18:12
Speaker
Like she, the way that Roberto gets possessed. And then, while they're dealing with that, um, Rachel gets possessed and she turns on them and just like the slow collapse of the group. It's really well done, really well illustrated.
01:18:28
Speaker
Um, it's going out on top. Yes. So i okay. Yeah. Yeah. all right, we'll talk about that. Okay, let me re revisit my point about that last panel. That last panel has Amara and Bobby and um Sam and Magic kind of standing there heroically and then sort of like in a misty, um like the like this mist in the background is where you see Moonstar and Cypher and Wolfsbane and Warlock.
01:19:00
Speaker
So he gets to draw a big group portrait before he ends. The group photo. But we got to talk about karma. All right.
01:19:12
Speaker
This is a fucked up thing to do to a character altogether, right?
Fatphobia in Character Portrayal
01:19:16
Speaker
Like, okay, whatever. Having them possessed and become evil. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Having that person possessing them make them become, like, just eat a bunch of food and become really, really fat is like...
01:19:30
Speaker
All right, it makes sense in a villainy way, right? Like, oh, he just uses bodies up, and then he jumps to the next body when this body becomes untenable or whatever. It's kind of like what you get from it. And like if you were using somebody else's body, why wouldn't you go ham and just eat all the shit you can can and just completely indulge?
01:19:50
Speaker
But there's so much fat phobia here. yeah i Just constantly being called Tubby and Fatso and Bloat and Blimp.
01:20:03
Speaker
I think because we don't actually know that she's being possessed by somebody else at this point. we Okay. It is... I think it makes sense to say, like, hey, i need a way to make this character generally unrecognizable. Like, I'm going to drop some hints, but i want I don't want people to look at her and say, you oh that's karma.
01:20:27
Speaker
i So they they found a way to make her look different. They could have just put her in a mask or a robe or something, but they went with... uh her becoming she's she's drawn like a i don't know 500 700 pound woman like sam says she's 500 pounds heavier than when they last saw her and yeah she used to be very skinny so she's probably about 600 yeah but
01:20:53
Speaker
is I feel like you can you can concede that to them if they don't just constantly have the characters calling her fat. Like, yeah that is the worst quality they see in her is that she's put 500 pounds, which is ah fucked up like the whole thing is just them being like hey fatso hey i think they yeah at some point through the next few issues they just call her blimp they don't refer to her by a name and they consistently instead refer to her as blimp if i ran into an old friend and they had put on 500 pounds right in under a year
01:21:38
Speaker
I wouldn't be like, ew, this disgusting fat fatty, right? Even if I was mad at that friend for some reason, I'd be like, oh my God, are they okay? Like that does not seem good.
01:21:52
Speaker
i'm I'm worried about them. But there's another aspect to her design that is a little more uncomfortable and it's that she has big Asian stereotype buck teeth.
01:22:08
Speaker
Yes, like like Mickey Rooney ah in Breakfast at Tiffany's style. Yeah.
01:22:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's not good. And...
01:22:22
Speaker
yeah I don't know. Not great for... As a send-off for Bill Sienkiewicz. Yes. I gotta say that. I mean, he he... It's a shame, because he draws these issues beautifully, but...
01:22:36
Speaker
what they do to karma is just kind of fucked up in in a bunch of different ways.
Villain's Laughter Analysis
01:22:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's, I, again, really good story. These are elements of it that, uh, suck. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, God, so just again, so fucking funny to make Sam just suddenly nude. Like if I'm going to draw this is my last time drawing this boy.
01:23:07
Speaker
There's one more thing I want to touch on from this issue, and it is the way that the way that karma laughs. There's a lot of tee hees, right? yeah Which is fine. That's a that's a character choice. But there's one here.
01:23:24
Speaker
That, Matt, I'm going to ask you to help me pronounce, which goes, Teehee, teehee, ha, ha, ha, ho, ho. Now, if you were a villain and your plan was all coming together, how would you say that?
01:23:38
Speaker
All right. Are you going to give it a try after me? We'll both give our line reads? Nope. Okay. All right. Teehee, teehee, ha, ha, ho, ho, ho, ho.
01:23:51
Speaker
Teehee, teehee, ha, ha, ho, ho, ho, ho. Tee hee, tee hee, ha ha ha, ho ho ho. Tee hee, tee hee, ha ha ha, ho ho. Tee hee, tee hee. It's the tee hee. It's the tee hee makes it tough. tee hee, ha ha ha ho ho.
01:24:08
Speaker
Tee hee, tee hee, ha ha ha ho ho. In the tiki tiki tiki ha ha ho.
Mission to Madripoor & New Mutants #32
01:24:17
Speaker
Stupid.
01:24:21
Speaker
Okay, now we can move on. All right, all right. ah Why don't you tell me about New Mutants number 32? Let me tell you, Matt, about New Mutants number 32. Yeah, time tell me about New Mutants 32. I'm going to tell you about New Mutants number 32 to the of Earth. I'm waiting to hear about New Mutants number 32 to the ends of the Earth.
01:24:40
Speaker
Chris Claremont writer Steve Lealoha artist. This man, this guy we've heard of him. he's He's been an inker. We've seen him do his inks. He's seen him do his little inks all over the place. He started yeah comics in 1975.
01:24:57
Speaker
um He draws just a couple issues in New Mutants, just the ones we're talking about today. ah He's clearly trying to ape He's more of a John Romita kind of John Romita Jr. kind of artist, but he's kind of trying to ape Bill Sienkiewicz's style. And it comes out a little awkward, but not bad.
01:25:16
Speaker
so I have some real thoughts on this that I will get into in the next issue. Okay. Stay tuned. But yeah, this first issue he comes in is sort of like ah it it is. There's a bit of whiplash here where he's drawing that extremely normal.
01:25:34
Speaker
but trying to get a little weird. Didn't doing like these weird sketchy things. He's ah he's kind of drawing like an inker, to to be honest. Yeah, yeah. um And also he's giving them all like perfectly spherical heads, which is the opposite of what Bill Sienkiewicz does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, except for Sam, who he does give a flat, skinny head. Yeah, gives that like foot-shaped head too. Foot-shaped head. So at this time, he's also inking Secret Wars 2.
01:26:04
Speaker
Oh, so. All right. For whatever that. So that's how we got the gig. Glynis Oliver, colorist L. Lois Buchalis, letterer and no senti editor and shoot Jimmer, editor in chief.
01:26:22
Speaker
Huge artistic shakeup here, right, Matt? Yeah. i Not only Lealoha, but Buhalis taking over letters just for this issue. But it's like with all the other changes here. And then Lealoha doing his own inks. Yeah. Lealoha doing his own inks. And then Glynnis Oliver.
01:26:44
Speaker
Yeah. I think we mentioned this in a bonus episode that we haven't released yet, but we'll shortly... ah This is Glynis Ween. The Glynis Ween and Glynis Ween's husband love story has has come to an end. It's come to an end. She returned to her maiden name in 1985, says Wikipedia.
01:27:04
Speaker
Yeah. And we're seeing it right here. Mm hmm. Sad, but fucking Glynis Ween or Glynis Oliver. She absolutely fucking rules. She's crushing it. Yeah, she's good. She's good.
01:27:17
Speaker
i'm I'm on side Glynis, team Glynis. Team Glynis. I don't know what you did, Len, but we're anti it. Should have treated her better. And if you treated her fine, then you should have done it even more.
01:27:35
Speaker
That's a really good that's really good line. And if you treated her fine, you should have done it more. somebody needs to write out this saga so we can read about it exactly but we're on clintis's side no matter what she did that's right release date june 25th 1985 cover date october 1985 wow we open on a flashback to big sir california remember that place i remember a big sir in the texas state fair
01:28:09
Speaker
Where the new mutants were all in... Shut up. You loved it. Where the new mutants were all in Viper's cliffside fortress when it exploded. Remember that? all found each other at sea, except Shan Khoi Man, Karma, who appeared lost.
01:28:29
Speaker
You remember that too? I do remember that. It was a sad day. And Charles Xavier was like, she's dead, guys. Sorry. I know. And Bobby took it really, really hard. Right. That's why he said they're dead, because Bobby was like, it doesn't matter what you say. I'm going to find her.
01:28:45
Speaker
Yes. And he knew what we are
Confrontation with Karma & Team Dynamics
01:28:49
Speaker
about to find out. So.
01:28:53
Speaker
He laid. Now the whole team is back together aboard a plane flying over the Pacific Ocean, planning a mission to find Karma. Cypher is compiling a list of the data they currently have. General Coy, Sean's uncle, took the heat for the gladiator arena when the police raided it.
01:29:10
Speaker
He claims not to have seen her in months, but because of her size and habits, Cypher is able to track Jan down to Madripoor, an effectively lawless island nation in the South China Sea. Pat, Madripoor is here! Madripoor is here. Madripoor is like kind of based on Singapore. It is um not modern Singapore, right? It's like...
01:29:37
Speaker
Like, I think just post-war Singapore, right? Or around World War II Singapore, where it was kind of like, sort of like the the town in um Casablanca, right?
01:29:51
Speaker
Yes. it's so It's like a, they they talk about it like a neutral ground where... there's It's general lawlessness, but you don't start fights here. There are police. There's no extradition.
01:30:04
Speaker
So if if you commit a crime elsewhere, you can just flee to Madripoor. Yeah, there's a like a lot of private security forces, and there are police, but you're not you know like the rules laws aren't strictly enforced. Yeah, yeah.
01:30:17
Speaker
And like there's not a lot of federal oversight. But they and they specifically say like if two arch enemies find themselves here at the same time, they sit down for a drink.
01:30:30
Speaker
Oh, I missed that line. That this is sort of like a ah neutral territory, like the hotel in the John Wick movies. Right, right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A sort of neutral zone where the deadliest of enemies can hang out in absolute comfort and safety without fear of each other or foreign cops. Interesting. So, yeah, this will be a big deal in Wolverine comics and X-Men comics and in the entire Marvel universe. Madripoor is huge. A huge piece of Marvel's um tapestry.
01:31:05
Speaker
But also... Wait, this is this is its first, this is its introduction, Madripoor? Yes. Wow, I didn't know that. This is its first appearance. In the New Mutants. First appearance is New Mutants number 32.
01:31:19
Speaker
Also, it's built upon the back of a a giant dragon? oh weird that way that doesn't need that shouldn't be true they didn't need to do that in Avengers world number one in 2014 um it was cool enough already so the other they they they compare this to the island of Tortuga like the pirate island and they also compare it to Mos Eisley spaceport but yes yeah yeah the thing I want to talk about is this plane ride
01:31:53
Speaker
Did they like fucking steal x Xavier's credit card? and like They're on a private jet. Yeah, they're in a sleeping cabin. So they must yeah they must be on a private jet.
01:32:06
Speaker
And they're talking about like, do you think Xavier's going to be mad when he sees the bill for this? I think they probably just chartered it and were like, yeah, bill this to the Xavier mansion.
01:32:19
Speaker
and That guy flies all over the place. And they were like... Oh, yeah, sure. It's like Home Alone rules where adults are just kind of like, oh, yeah, sure. yeah Oh, your parents says it's fine. Yeah. Your parents approve this. Then. ka Okay. Okay.
01:32:32
Speaker
um But there's also a really weird scene where they're like the stewardess is like their babysitter because they're like, oh, you spoke too loud. The stewardess is going to come. And then she comes in and fucking Danny.
01:32:47
Speaker
cast an a illusion illusion that they're all asleep in their bunks and then the stewardess doesn't yell at them she's like i could have sworn huh and walks away and that they're all like get into your bed really quick like what what kind of flight is this i love doug ramsey is the one that's playing quiet police too he's the one that's like guys keep it down i know we're having fun And he's a... we need to be quiet? He's using a laptop, but like entirely vertical.
01:33:18
Speaker
Like opened all the way up so it's... Like ah like a... Very weird. but That's how they worked in 1985. I guess so. And he's tight because he's holding it with one hand and typing with the other.
01:33:32
Speaker
When they reach customs, they have magma create a small earthquake so Warlock can fly them away without anyone noticing and find Karma protected by a private army in a villa at the top of a mountain.
01:33:45
Speaker
They say she owns the mountain. She owns a mountain. Can you do that? Can you just be like, I want to buy that's mine that mountain. Mine! You just got to put your arms around it. Mine!
01:33:56
Speaker
nobody argues, then you own it. As the rest of the team make their way through the forest after dark into the compound, Doug and Warlock stay behind and are ambushed by a shadowy figure. It's already happening to Doug. He's like, why do I have to stay behind? And they're like, ah because in case we need backup, because you guys are so strong that if we get into trouble,
01:34:26
Speaker
Warlock is also like trying to cheer up Doug me. I don't know if he's trying to cheer him up or just like he's testing stuff out, but he's like switching from Warlock to Michael Jackson to what i think is Cindy Lauper.
01:34:42
Speaker
Cindy Lauper. Then he changes to Doug and then changes into a Muppet. Yeah, he's just he's he's being goofy. He's having fun. What should I look like? Do you like this one? Do you like that?
01:34:56
Speaker
Doug's like, they're fine. I'm busy. Yeah, please. This is very distracting. i love Orlok.
Time Travel to Cairo & Future Challenges
01:35:07
Speaker
He also does one of my favorite things of his when the shadowy figure appears. He goes, alarm, alarm, alarm.
01:35:21
Speaker
He's so good. He's great. After they make their way past the outer security, the team finds that the inner villa is also guarded by the gladiators. With magma's volcanoes, mirage's illusions, magic's demons, sunspots, strength, and cannonballs.
01:35:38
Speaker
Cannonballing. They burst in and make short work of the guards. Wolfsbane tracks Shan, charging into the central mansion, but in her haste, she allowed herself to be possessed by karma.
01:35:51
Speaker
As Danny gives chase, she calls to her friends and finds they've all been possessed by karma. No! This is terrifying. Yeah. It's a legitimate, like, crazy turn when when she, number one has to realize that Rain has been possessed just because their psychic bond breaks. She's just not responding through their psychic bond. Yeah.
01:36:18
Speaker
And then Rain jumps out and attacks her. Yes. she gets up. ah She tries to alert the rest of the team and the rest of the team is like.
01:36:29
Speaker
Just staring, standing there. Yeah, we're cool with it. Yeah. And then there's Karma up in the balcony, just like peering over like a little baby, like. I'm up here. i i'm up here
01:36:46
Speaker
Cornered and under assault by her former friend, Dani suddenly finds herself in limbo with magic crouching over her. They head back to the mansion and find that all the gladiators, the guards, and magic's demons are dead.
01:37:00
Speaker
Seemingly killed by the new mutants and karma fa who are nowhere to be found. The cops show up and start shooting at the girls so they port back to limbo to regroup. fucking ween cops we never get any of the new mutants reactions to this, that they just murdered a whole lot of men.
01:37:22
Speaker
Yes. Well, it's not their fault. No, no, no, no, no. But you'd think they would be like, fuck, I ate a man. i'm ah i was a wolf. I ate a man.
01:37:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But that seems to be the general cure to that guilt is having someone, someone one that wasn't there grab you by the shoulder and go,
01:37:43
Speaker
hey you That wasn't your fault. so Yeah. So when you do that enough times, you can just do it off panel. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:37:53
Speaker
Karma apparently has another home in Cairo. So they port there next. That was my real first clue, Matt. When when they said Cairo, I was like.
01:38:06
Speaker
Did you start? Did your mind start going back and go? Like start putting together all the pieces of things that we had talked about. Yes. Yes. That thing.
01:38:17
Speaker
i Exactly. Because Kitty had said that thing about karma behaving the way that she did when she was possessed. And I was like, okay, something's off here. This isn't just karma. And then they mentioned Cairo.
01:38:32
Speaker
What do we know about Cairo? And then, yeah, the the the motivations all make sense here. It all comes together. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And at that and Karma in that um fight said that she is like Xavier's equal as a telepath.
01:38:51
Speaker
Yes. Xavier has no equal except for me or something like that. and it's like well Yeah, yeah. Karma? And I think, is this where they also start putting together, like, hey, Karma, when we knew her, could only ever possess one person at a time? Yes.
01:39:05
Speaker
She didn't have psychic powers. She wasn't a full telepath. Yeah. She's doing telepath stuff. Yeah. ah But magic accidentally transports them in time as well as space, and they don't know where in time they are.
01:39:21
Speaker
Some authorities start chasing them with spears. Huh? Which gives them one, some hint. It also says, stop in the name of the Pharaoh.
01:39:32
Speaker
They run until a woman speaking English directs them down an alleyway and projects false all illusions to throw the guards off their trail. Huh? That woman, as it turns out, is a dead ringer for Storm. What's Storm doing here? her great, great, great, et cetera, grandmother, Ashake.
01:39:52
Speaker
Ashake? i knew it would be Ashake. It's always Ashake. I knew it was Ashake. The great, great, great, great ancestral grandmother of Aurora. Why do they keep throwing a shock A into every damn story?
01:40:07
Speaker
it is. There is a nice moment here where magic sees her, thinks it's like,
Return to Present & Strategy Against Karma
01:40:12
Speaker
it sees essentially a an alternate timeline looking storm and says, oh, this could be the person that helped raise me in yeah my miniseries.
01:40:26
Speaker
it's It's a cute moment.
01:40:30
Speaker
The girls rest up, and the next day, Ashaki helps guide Magic's teleportation into the future, but they overshoot and end up a few decades late. In this Cairo, Rain, Bobby, Amara, and Sam are like an evil gang of punks killing random passersby.
01:40:49
Speaker
definite Oh, man. Magic Claremont and like this bad guys in comics thing is just like, we love watching people die and wearing spiked leather. can hate it. So stupid. Comics will eventually grow out of that kind of shit. Right. But not for like 30 years. of Yeah. Not not this decade or the next. Yeah. ah Magic ports them one more time and they're back in the present.
01:41:22
Speaker
Danny collapses in despair. Not only is she now terrified of the future, she's also unsure they can even beat karma on their own. Thankfully, they're joined by a woman speaking English who's a dead ringer for Storm because it is Storm.
01:41:41
Speaker
Remember, they went to Cairo. She actually did go to Africa. Finally in Africa. And if you're anywhere in Africa, Storm will find you. yeah i And she's with Warlock. The four of them are going to team up and save the day.
01:41:59
Speaker
To be continued. All right. That last. That's so that happened so fast. It does. Yes. Suddenly they're in the future and then they're back. Storm's here. Warlock escaped. We're teaming up. We're going to win. Bye.
01:42:17
Speaker
I thought just because it happened so quickly that this was just a shock a again that they that she was just still there. She's also wearing the same clothing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:42:30
Speaker
Oh boy. Well, do you want to hear about
01:42:37
Speaker
New Mutants number 33 against all odds? I do. Well, Chris Claremont wrote this one, and Steve Lealoha artists to this one.
01:42:49
Speaker
Puhalas and Orzakowski were the letterers. Glynis Oliver is the colorist, Anacenti is the editor, and Flum Stippe is the editor-in-chief. Release date, July 23rd, 1985. Cover date, November 1985. This is the most wicked place in all of Cairo, and the most evil person ever.
01:43:09
Speaker
as we see Karma sitting lavishly in the VIP area of her nightclub, Pharaoh, with the new mutant sitting obediently at her feet. Claremont's a little off the chain in some of these.
01:43:20
Speaker
There's a a couple issues ago, he opens with like, he's talking about like, I don't even know who Dazzler or something. He's like, she's born a mutant, which brands her an outcast as surely as God's Mark, Davey Kane. Shut up, fuck off. And he puts it right next to, cause he has also doing his good flowery stuff. Cause he calls Dazzler's light show a phantasmagoric, breathtaking collage of brilliant colors that swirls about her as if it had life and awareness of its own. It's like, that's good. Cool.
01:43:51
Speaker
But, like, just save that shit. You don't have to do it nonstop. That's also what ah immediately following the God-marked Cain line, too. it's so weird It's so weird to go from one to the next. Yeah, yeah.
Karma's Manipulation & Psychological Depth
01:44:10
Speaker
All right, so... Also, he's really... sticking to these like black and white concepts of good and evil. There's good, there's evil.
01:44:22
Speaker
and there's Ileana those are the three things you can be and Ileana is doing this thing all throughout this these issues Ileana is doing that thing where she's doing something heroic and then stops and is like oh but I wanted to do the opposite because I'm actually evil she's like like save somebody's life and she's like but I have to admit that I wanted to let them die because I'm evil no you're You didn't! Stop it! You just did something heroic. You're not evil. Stop saying it. Just because you... so It drives me fucking nuts. Like she has a virus in her body called evil
01:45:02
Speaker
All right. Well, just for fun. It does. She has Sam break up someone's marriage, reveling in the idea that the choices she forces on people can slowly corrupt them over time. This is heartbreaking. Yeah. She has Sam go up to a couple dancing and just say, yeah can I cut in? And then she possesses the wife named Dale To have her be like, oh, yes, of course, I would love to dance with you. While the man is like Phil.
01:45:35
Speaker
While Phil is like, what do he what are you doing? you're You're going off with this man. And then has Sam be like, fuck off, dude, I will beat your ass.
01:45:46
Speaker
And so he just has to walk away dejected and then then returns Dale to herself after she like insults her husband and tells him to go out to get out. And she's thinking in her head, I must have done this for a reason. I loved my husband. But then shi has karma possesses.
01:46:07
Speaker
cannon ball Well, I guess he was already possessed. And he's like, you know, I don't want you. You suck. And walks walks away. Yes. Yeah. It's so fucked up. And it is like she's going on about like how this isn't this moment.
01:46:24
Speaker
Isn't going to break up their mood. They're not getting divorced just because that happened. They're going to work through it. But now this corruption exists in their relationship. They'll always have that moment that they have to be unsure of as they go on. Really evil stuff.
01:46:39
Speaker
Yeah. Really, really rough. But her fun is interrupted by a familiar psychic presence. Ororo. meaning to reveal Karma's true identity and free all our captives, backed up by Ilyana and Dany,
01:46:56
Speaker
A very cool fight ensues in which Danny and Rain's psychic link ar allows Rain to free herself from possession and Danny reveals karma's greatest fear, a giant jacked Charles x Xavier. He's huge and he's got fucking pecs. All right. at this point, we have a cruel person who can possess people who lives in Cairo and is deathly afraid of Charles x Xavier.
01:47:24
Speaker
And is a telepath. And is a telepath. And when did we last see jacked Charles x Xavier in Cairo? And, and, and ah you could already you could put together that this has something to do with the voice Karma heard in her head when she disappeared and the fact that Charles x Xavier was like, this...
01:47:46
Speaker
the thing is too scary i can't let the new mutants interact with it yes and that it was solely focused on revenge against charles x xavier yes so you think he was like because that got interrupted by secret wars so he was doing that story
Leadership & Identity Themes with Storm and Dani
01:48:07
Speaker
and then it got interrupted by secret wars and he was like okay i'll just save it until secret wars is like way in the rearview mirror And then when finally he's like, okay, it's safe. It's been over a year since Secret Wars. It's safe for me to finally resolve the karma plot line.
01:48:22
Speaker
And then he gets a call from Jim Stupid. And it's like, hey, I'm doing Secret Wars 2. You got to put this in your book. Can you put this in? Fuck! Tosses his typewriter across the room.
01:48:36
Speaker
um The two manage to escape, Danny and Rain, with the help of Warlock, but Sam, Amara, Doug, and Roberto all remain in Karma's possession. Back.
01:48:49
Speaker
Oh, we get an invulnerable while blasting number 13. It's from Storm. She's like, you may be invulnerable while you're blasting, but... That counts.
01:49:00
Speaker
um Back at their hideout, Aurora comforts the unpossessed new mutants and helps them regroup for the next battle. She recognizes conflict in Danny and the two have a really nice heart to heart about guilt and leadership.
01:49:15
Speaker
Until they're interrupted by a massive earthquake. Karma's new mutants attack splitting up the group.
01:49:23
Speaker
there's There's a really... this is another really cool action sequence we're about to get into, but there's a really touching moment between Dany and Storm where, like, Storm recognizes... Dany's upset about two things. Number one, she's the leader of this group and things seem hopeless. Number two, when they get Rain back, Rain changes out of the, like...
01:49:53
Speaker
Sort of revealing dress that ah that karma had made her wear. And Danny's looking at it and just being like, oh, wonder what I would look like in this dress. And then Storm catches her looking at the dress. She's embarrassed, runs outside. Storm can absolutely recognize that feeling that happened in life death where she was like, wow, I am not used to looking glamorous. But yeah, all of the sudden for the first time,
01:50:21
Speaker
I kind of want to. And Yeah. yeah I don't know. It's just between that yeah and the guilt of leadership. Storm is perfectly poised to give some words of encouragement.
01:50:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool. it does And it does make sense that Dani would like this, right? She likes really revealing clothing. she's But also, it's so funny to me that x Xavier has fucked these kids up so deeply.
01:50:49
Speaker
Oh my God. That when they're going through puberty... in their heads they're like is this an evil mutant yeah is this the is this sign is this the sign this emotional instability yeah yeah this is just hormones it's not pure evil i want to look pretty and and talk to boys am i being possessed by an evil mutant no god damn it charles xaver you fuck these kids so bad so bad Storm has a really good answer to that question, which is
Magic's Moral Dilemma & Relationship with Warlock
01:51:25
Speaker
such, Danielle, is the true nature of our foes evil to take the most ordinary, decent, natural human yearnings and twist them into something foul, which is. a really
01:51:40
Speaker
good and concise way to sum up like evangelicalism or homophobia. rights Right. Right. Which I think is what he's trying to say here. Like, that's not. Right. two It's not an accident that he phrases it that way.
01:51:55
Speaker
Can I get less high-minded here and talk about how when they're escaping, Warlock is disguised as a rug and everyone just like walks on him by accident. And then he's like, gotcha! And then he sweeps him up. anyway It's like that fucking pervert human carpet guy in New York City who goes to like dance clubs and stuff. And he's just like, walk on me!
01:52:17
Speaker
Walk on me! What? There's two of them. There's one guy claims he's not a pervert and he's like, it's a performance art? No, you're a fucking pervert, dude. you like it when people walk on you. Just own it. And the other guy who does own it and he's like, walk on me. Yeah, it's a fetish. Yeah, it's a fetish. I'm horny. Walk on me.
01:52:37
Speaker
Jesus. I would look it up, but the picture I have in my head is... Same. i've never Already fucking very funny. I looked it up to make sure I didn't fucking dream this. but I would not look at any pictures. ah That's how I found out there were two of them. I thought there was only i thought it was the same guy. um But also, so Rain, when she gets back, she's like, oh my god, I was possessed and everything was terrible.
01:53:01
Speaker
um I must have become evil. And Warlock, who's changing into like a bunny and a little puppy dog, is like... unimportant yeah he changes it into like a it looks like um like a chip and dale style bambi style rabbit like just extremely cartoonish being like unimportant she's like was i evil unimportant like man that's gotta help right like if you were if you were spiraling out to your friend
01:53:37
Speaker
And they were like, stupid, unimportant, shut up. As they were also transforming into cartoonish animals. Yeah, that too. Well, man, and Rain is such a little baby, right? Like, she's still just like the baby of the group that all you have to do is turn into. No, I mean, like, all you have to do is turn into puppies and bunnies. And she's like, oh, i feel better.
01:53:57
Speaker
Yeah. She is. I mean, she's the youngest of the group. Or, yeah, right. She is she's very... Just behind Roberto? Yeah, I think she's a bit younger.
01:54:10
Speaker
Like she's 13 and he's 14. Although we don't know the true ages of like Doug and Warlock and Amara. I Sam's like 17 Karma's like 19. But it's changed. Karma's the oldest. Yeah. But, hey, Karma is the oldest of our religious concepts that survive today.
01:54:34
Speaker
Oh. yeah I think Warlock smiles when it's a piano. All right, we can keep it going. Danny and Ileana are cut off, but Ileana has a plan. As the two escape and attack from magma through a stepping disc, they find themselves at the feet of karma.
01:54:53
Speaker
Or Danny does at least. Magic ports right out of there, leaving Danny behind, seemingly as an attempt to buy her own freedom from karma. Danny now belongs to her karma. So fucked up.
01:55:04
Speaker
Across the complex, Warlock has managed to restrain Sam and returns him to Rain, hoping to find a way to break the possession. But with Dany under Karma's control, her psychic link with Rain is exploited and she's repossessed.
01:55:17
Speaker
She and Sam attack Warlock and escape. They... Warlock wants to kill Sam. And they're like, don't kill Sam. Just capture him.
01:55:30
Speaker
And he's like, ah, self thinks this is a mistake. But then self is very young and knows very little. Self trusts. Self will obey. It's very sweet. There's such a There's clearly.
01:55:46
Speaker
a set of rules for his mentality right his morality basically yeah uh that chris claremont understands and hasn't fully explained but every time he writes in warlock's voice it's like yeah this this it makes sense that he thinks like this yes right So Warlock, as I said, is ready to fucking kill them, but Ileana pulls him to limbo and has Sim watch over him while she goes to find Aurora before Karma can.
01:56:18
Speaker
But Sim decides to be a little stinker and show Warlock all the X-Men that he and Ileana killed together. Warlock can't process this and freaks out. Back! Yeah.
01:56:30
Speaker
desperately trying to find aurora magic's found and confronted by danny in rain speaking karma's words she has no wish to harm inna and is just here to assure her that turning danny
Strategic Counterattack & Showdown with Karma
01:56:41
Speaker
and rain back over to her has earned her her safety
01:56:46
Speaker
aliena turning danny and rain over to karma has earned iana her safety from car yeah there's a lot of There's a lot of hers in that sentence, I guess. Karma hopes to partner with her, not keep her as a slave, and the two can rule together.
01:57:03
Speaker
Ileana honestly considers it just a little bit. There is some evil in me, but I gotta keep doing my good guy plan, I guess. But is interrupted by Rain's howl, clearly signaling that they found Aurora.
01:57:17
Speaker
it is yeah It's worth mentioning here that We know Ileana is not evil, but so far all we've seen her do is say to Dany, hey, I have a plan. Follow me.
01:57:29
Speaker
And then turn her over to Karma and disappear. Right. And then Karma approaches her via Dany and is like, hey, it seems like that was a peace offering. Maybe this is for you to join me.
01:57:45
Speaker
And I would be happy to do that. And at this point, we don't know, except for the knowledge that we have that Ileana is a good guy. We don't know that Ileana isn't just betraying everybody here. Right.
01:58:00
Speaker
So that's why it's in that's why it's important that she's like, oh, are you I could join her. i am thinking about it.
01:58:12
Speaker
I just I don't think it fools anybody. I don't think there's anybody trying to that is like. that's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um We watch Aurora kick the absolute shit out of Bobby, Sam, Amara and Danny by herself without fucking powers.
01:58:29
Speaker
She's so fucking cool. And Ileana shows up with a stepping disc to save her from rain's tracking abilities. but later that night we see where Ileana took storm as she walks onto the floor at Pharaoh completely under Karma's control.
01:58:45
Speaker
Ileana watches regretfully from her scrying screen in limbo, remembering when she had to kill another Aurora to save her and hoping she won't have to do it again There's an extremely small chance for success, but turning over Aurora was her only choice.
01:59:01
Speaker
It's fucking Doctor Strange putting the one finger up at Tony Stark. Yeah, yeah. There's an unexpected obstacle in her plan, though, when Warlock marches in an unconscious Sim behind him demanding justice for Illyana's betrayals to be continued.
01:59:19
Speaker
Fucking Warlock beat the shit out of Sim. Holy shit. How powerful is this guy? And he is like formed up like a... yeah yeah Like he's playing Gears of War. he looks like a combination between a tank and a person. He's like a mech warrior. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah.
01:59:40
Speaker
I've got to say two okay two things at the end of this issue here I've got to mention. Number one, Steve Lailoha, from his first issue to his second issue, makes some major adjustments to his style that I think...
01:59:58
Speaker
gives me what I want out of this comic. Like he in the first comic was going extremely standard. And like we said, just kind of like taking a chance to do things a little sketchier here and there to make it look a little more abstract and and help ease the transition. But i don't know Bill Sienkiewicz called him and was like, here's how I've been doing it.
02:00:21
Speaker
But... In number 33 here that we just read, it is a vast improvement. Like yes the the head shapes I mentioned, they're no longer all perfect spheres. Like they have their own personalities. Each face does. And the the action is really exciting. It's kind of...
02:00:40
Speaker
it's kind of Not as well as Bill Sienkiewicz did it, but it's in that same style where things are just kind of flying all over the place and perspective isn't the priority. It's it's spectacle.
02:00:55
Speaker
It's really, it's working. So yeah congrats to Steve Lealoha. Definitely. Yeah, it makes it makes me wish that Steve Lealoha stayed on the book a little longer because he's doing some interesting stuff. But it it does still a little bit feel like Bill Sienkiewicz-lite.
02:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, sure. But acceptably so. i This is like Coke to Diet Coke, not Coke to RC Cola. Other final thing from me on this issue. Storm, I'm pretty sure it's Storm. It's a little unclear who's saying this word, but somebody, when Storm attacks the karma-possessed new mutants, has a battle cry that's spelled K-A-I-Y-A-I-I-P-E.
02:01:42
Speaker
Okay, so I saw this note in here, and I was like, where was this? it's ah It's rain. It's rain getting hurt as wolf. It's rain saying. And she goes, ka-eep, ka-eep, like a wolf. Ka-eep, ka-eep.
02:02:02
Speaker
Yes. That makes so much more sense. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. Yeah, of course. All right. With that resolved, how do you feel about moving on to the next issue? i would love to.
02:02:14
Speaker
New Mutants number 34 with a little bit of luck. This one has an exclamation point at the end, which is rare for the Claremont era.
02:02:26
Speaker
Chris Claremont, writer Steve Lealoha, artist Glynis Oliver, colorist, Boo Hollis and Orzakowski, letterers, and no senti editor and her shoot Jim, editor in chief. This is Lealoha's last issue, by the way.
02:02:42
Speaker
Is it really? No, I just started liking him. Yeah, I think Mary Wilshire comes up next. Don't tell me. Released day August 27th, 1985. Cover date, December 1985. Warlock is pissed and fresh off of beating Sims whole ass. He's determined to put Eliana in the fucking ground.
02:03:07
Speaker
While magic dodges and tries to explain herself, her demons leap to her defense against her protestations. Warlock grabs the demons and sucks their life glow out, turning them into a dead techno organic husks. Jesus Christ, Warlock.
02:03:22
Speaker
He kicks ass here. He he's fighting to like the demons flank him. So he makes two faces so that he can see if he can fight both of them face both of them at once.
02:03:35
Speaker
You get the impression that this guy could end the fucking world. Yeah, he eats both of them. And the only the only reason and he doesn't do it to other people is because the people he first made friends with on Earth were like, hey, shouldn't do that. You shouldn't just do that to people. Stop eating people. Stop eating. What did he eat like a bunny or something? I don't remember.
02:04:00
Speaker
Demonstrating that she could kill him at any second, Ileana transforms into her most innocent dress and tries to explain to Warlock that she has a plan. Warlock balks and discorporates, chiding himself as a coward, but Ileana picks him back up and tells him she needs him.
02:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, she's like, this, she's like, anywhere else you could beat me. But here is my fucking realm. I control everything in limbo. You don't stand a fucking chance.
02:04:29
Speaker
And then you turn the page and she's like wearing a cute little girl dress. And she's like, but I don't want to do that because you're my friend. Yeah, yeah. And he literally turns into a puddle of goo. He's so unsure of what to do that he turns into.
02:04:48
Speaker
What a good little boy he is. He's just like a little kid. He's just like a good boy. He's trying his best. He's trying. This world is so confusing for a little guy.
02:05:01
Speaker
ah He decides to believe her and the two start spying on the situation back in Cairo. Storm is resisting hard, but they watch her falter and succumb to karma's powers as a crowd watches in all disgust and perverse delight. We all eventually succumb to karma's powers, Pat.
02:05:21
Speaker
In all disgust and perverse delight. I don't know. it Depends what you did in life.
02:05:28
Speaker
Oh, you're doing the thing again. Stop doing that.
02:05:35
Speaker
Karma taunts Storm, though, with reluctant respect. Storm knows who Karma truly is, but it's no matter. Tonight, she will psychically operate on the minds of all the mutants, making them her wheeling slaves forever of their own free will.
02:05:50
Speaker
She doesn't have to use her possesses people power anymore. Why not just like do that from the beginning? Like why? if they, if she, if, if she has that power, why? Well, she didn't have them in the beginning.
02:06:02
Speaker
I think, I think this is karma saying like, I'm pretty sure my plan worked. I have completely won. So now I can drop my guard a little bit and take the time it needs to psychically surgery them.
02:06:18
Speaker
Right. But yeah, It feels like she's had them for a long, I don't know, I don't know, fine, fine, I'll buy it. We flashback to Cairo almost 20 years prior.
02:06:30
Speaker
Baby Storm is running off with a wallet she stole when a psychic voice in her head stops her. It's adventurer era Charles x Xavier who releases her before walking into a small saloon. Remember all this, Matt? You remember seeing this before? This looked familiar, but maybe you with slightly worse art? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And from a different angle.
02:06:52
Speaker
Aurora runs past an alleyway and we see magic and warlock watching the scene. They follow Xavier watching through the saloon window as Xavier stares down a mall for Rook and for Rook drops forward dead on the table.
02:07:07
Speaker
Why are we seeing this? What could this have to do with anything? Magic starts putting together the pieces Could Farouk have survived the encounter in consciousness, if not in physical form? Could that consciousness have possessed karma?
02:07:23
Speaker
yeah This would explain her fear of Xavier, her attachment to Cairo, her villainy, and the supercharging of her psychic powers. Whoa!
02:07:34
Speaker
Magic gives Warlock a big smooch, and they make a plan to save the day. Damn. In the Pharaoh nightclub, Karma confirms the story that Magic deduced. Amal Farouk took possession of Karma because his attempts to possess Xavier all failed.
02:07:50
Speaker
At that moment, Magic walks in. She's ready to willingly join Farouk, but he turns on her. He grabs her by the hand and tries to possess her.
02:08:01
Speaker
It's so difficult, he has to put the other mutants to sleep, and during his efforts, they each disappear one by one. As the last one fades, magic crumbles to the ground and begins to discorporate. What the fuck?
02:08:16
Speaker
It's not magic at all. It's warlock. no way ah yeah i gasped at this one i was like like they start disappearing and in my head i was like how the fuck if she's standing in front of karma how is she still teleporting the people behind karma right this blew my mind very well done we're about to hit some fucking high octane action yes buckle up A volcano erupts behind Farouk, flames shooting in all directions. Storm appears in front of him, challenging him as Sunspot rips up the floor behind him, flinging Karma's body to the ground.
02:08:56
Speaker
Cannonball rushes in to blast Farouk straight into a wall. He possesses Wolfsbane in desperation and attacks Warlock as Mirage pulls the greatest fears from his mind.
02:09:08
Speaker
But what appears is the devastation from the Vietnam War. What? It's Karma's greatest fear. She screams in her own voice once again, horrified to see what's become of her. The new mutants rush to her side.
02:09:21
Speaker
She's free of Farouk's influence. But where did he go? That's such a good moment, too, because their warlock is charging at Karma.
02:09:33
Speaker
ready to absorb her life glow and danny's like wait that's not but that's not fucking farouk's greatest fear that's karma's greatest fear this is karma that's not the first time this has happened either right was it the maybe the demon bear saga when she projected somebody's greatest fear and it was like oh they're no longer possessed um i don't remember she's done it before okay mutant menace pod gmail.com it's still a cool back to our old episodes and then let us know i don't care if she did it before it's a cool moment it is no it's very i'm not saying it's bad it's no you think it sucks and that's okay we can have different opinions this we can have different opinions mutant menace pod at gmail.com why does pat think that sucks
02:10:21
Speaker
I think we should talk about this because this is a confusing moment rather than just read the recap. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's like magic tells store magic's says magic is like, I know the only person that could be possessed is you storm. And it's like, like pulls out her soul sword and it's like, and if I concentrate real hard, i can kill somebody with this thing.
02:10:47
Speaker
Yes. And charges at storm.
02:10:52
Speaker
but then flips around and stabs Cypher. Yes, and Cypher is like, no, why? but if this was gonna be your death,
02:11:06
Speaker
Why would you say, not me, please? That's a weird thing to say. Yeah, I don't think, like, if you're pretending to be Doug Ramsey, i don't think he has much else. But if you think you're dying, life if you think you're dying, why would you still be pretending to be Doug Ramsey?
02:11:25
Speaker
because Because it is it is true. Farouk is in Doug Ramsey at the moment. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just to say, like, to hopefully deflect her sword, like affect Illyana's decision at the last moment. I don't think it's while he's being stabbed.
02:11:43
Speaker
the The point being that Doug Ramsey would know that Illyana's bluffing. Her sword cannot kill anybody in the the material realm here. yeah So why do the bluff at Aurora, though? Why do that?
02:11:58
Speaker
What did that serve?
02:12:03
Speaker
That's a great question. i i Maybe to like throw layer to the deception just to like to make the essential apply that much. Yeah.
02:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, so he doesn't have time to think and go like, oh wait, is this true? Well, but then how would he would still, I don't know. I don't know.
02:12:29
Speaker
but it's It's weird sequence. The reason The reason that Doug would be the most logical target because he's the weakest and the newest. Easy to possess, easy to make an excuse for why he'd leave the team and disappear. So like after they got back, assuming they had solved everything, Doug would be like, this was too much for me. I'm just going to go out into the world.
02:12:50
Speaker
Right. And he just does it again. and He does the whole thing again. But now that they know, what can they do? The only way to excise him is to kill the boy.
02:13:01
Speaker
But Karma has another idea. She uses her possession powers on Doug in order to fight Farouk on the psychic plane. She falters at first, ashamed of her new body and the things she did under his control.
02:13:14
Speaker
But with the support of her friends and the memories of all she endured as a child, she bounces back and flicks Farouk out of Doug and back into the astral plane. Yeah, she has like a flick. It's cool.
02:13:25
Speaker
It's cool. She does. There's you so they're big muscly guys. They're like they're he's a big muscly guy and she's and she's big fat karma.
02:13:37
Speaker
And then like old thin karma bursts out of fat karma. And then suddenly big muscly Farouk turns into big fat Farouk.
02:13:49
Speaker
very funny to imagine Doug Ramsey being a maniacal psychic beast like he's projecting this huge extremely muscular astral vision and it's just coming out of Doug Ramsey's little scrawny body as he like levitates three inches off the ground ah there's also so i do want to say uh-huh as far as fat phobia is concerned. Okay. That this isn't good. They have her step out of her fat body and be thin again in order to be strong enough to yeah win the fight. Right. That's shitty. But at the same time, they are echoing the internal shame of someone with low self-esteem about their weight.
02:14:42
Speaker
Right. They, they are tapping into a lot of that. Yeah. Like, I guess Chris Claremont isn't saying she's worthless because she's fat. It's that she thinks she's worthless because she's fat. Like she sees this. She doesn't recognize the fat person as herself.
02:15:00
Speaker
And so that is the mental block that she has to overcome. Right. She's a little more digestible than just her needing to be thin to be a good person.
02:15:13
Speaker
So. Interesting. Um, What do you think about the whole part where he's like, and this was your fault.
02:15:24
Speaker
I, I just nudged you you. were the, you wanted to eat this much and turn into a fat pig. i I mean, that's an attempt to shake her confidence in a psychic battle, right? She was... Okay, so all's fair. He's, like, okay kind of ah trying to blur what she knows was were his actions. i At the same time, like, that is kind of the eu the nagging shame of being fat. is Okay. Like, you're always just saying...
02:15:57
Speaker
shit this is this is my fault i'm fat because i'm a loser and society tells you this all the time society's just constantly like there's no no sympathy for fat people because they did it to themselves if they weren't so lazy and had better self-control they wouldn't be fat ah was Right. And that is like, that is crushing to self-esteem because it's, it doesn't matter how smart or cool or good of a person you are. You still have that nagging piece that says like, I am out of control.
02:16:37
Speaker
Yeah. I'm a bad person because I don't know how to not be a lazy slob. Right. It's so, it's so, what I'm saying is, Claremont gets some of that. There's still a lot of, like, symbolism to say being fat is bad throughout this run. But here, he's also saying, like, it's kind of bad because she considers it bad.
02:17:07
Speaker
And we haven't, we've never seen, I don't think, in Marvel Comics up to this point. I mean, it's still kind of. I mean, still kind of to this day, you almost never see a fat hero. You see a lot of fat villains.
02:17:25
Speaker
Yes. You almost never see a fat hero. I think the closest we got in Marvel was Squirrel Girl, and she wasn't fat, but she was... i who was it? Titania that kept getting called fat, even though she was just Kirby.
02:17:40
Speaker
Yeah. Squirrel girl was the same thing with squirrel girl. And then they just started drawing squirrel girl skinny and continuing to call her Kirby. So weird. I just around it all out. The mutants all rushed to Jan side to tell her that they will help her fight him if he ever returns. And as the Pharaoh club burns, they head off into the sunset.
02:18:03
Speaker
The ending.
02:18:07
Speaker
Volstag.
02:18:11
Speaker
Volstag. What? Volstag is fat. From the Warriors 3. Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah, yeah. He's got a big old belly. um All right. So the end. what What an interesting, what a weird. It's hard to shake the stain of Secret Wars 2 from this whole thing.
02:18:32
Speaker
I, having not read Secret Wars 2, having only heard you tell me how bad it's going to be, i think I was able to look past some of that and say this whole arc was fucking so cool.
02:18:45
Speaker
Okay. Like, still mad about the Secret Wars stuff, and I still, like those first three issues that we read, I'm still a little bit saying. Right. That was... That didn't make any sense, right? Because there are just pages taken out to plug secret wars and remove plot.
02:19:04
Speaker
But if you look at the arc of a whole, the turn from just two of the mutants are missing, we have to rescue them to actually this is a much bigger problem. More of our friends are going missing to actually this is somebody that's been missing for months.
02:19:22
Speaker
And you found them, but it's a whole terrible situation to actually that is them, but the behavior isn't theirs. It's that of yeah this other villain from years and years ago that you didn't know would come back, but I did.
02:19:38
Speaker
i It's, it's fucking cool. what is What an intense arc to have planned in two different comics at two entirely separate times to bring all together in one, like really exciting story here. I mean, this is why we do the podcast the way we do, right? Is because there are these massive interwoven stories that happen across a decade and through multiple titles. And had we not read all that we read, a lot of this wouldn't make sense.
02:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. the It was so worth it for the payoff here when you actually... get the uh when the storylines come together right i mean even even reading dazzler like had we not read dazzler we wouldn't understand what we would be so distracted by these fucking gladiators in spanish but why don't i know more about him yeah yeah yeah and i and i had read those things years apart and i'd read dazzler after i read new mutants so when i read this i didn't put it together that these were the same guys that's what i was freaking out about last episode is because I was like, do we ever see Max Rocker again? And I was like, what the fuck? We see him in the next thing? And I was like, those are the same gladiators?
02:20:54
Speaker
And Dazzler is still there. Like, oh, man. Yeah. So weird. They just did the story again. It's so weird in two different ways. Right. like That's the that's the thing I think is weird about these issues is in two different ways. They just did the story again.
02:21:07
Speaker
They did the beast again. And they did what was the second arc of new mutants again. just redid both of them at the same time. Yes, but I don't think that's the while still telling an original story.
02:21:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Because the karma thing is entirely the karma. I keep wanting to call him Shadow King, but he's not Shadow King. And I don't even know when he becomes Shadow King. I'm all Farouk.
02:21:40
Speaker
I'm all Farouk. That's right. The Shadow King. Any other wrap up thoughts on this? Yeah, this last issue has a very confusing next time banner at the end of the issue.
02:21:53
Speaker
It's broken into two pieces. It says, first of all, it's a conclusion, but it says to be continued, sort of, in New Mutants Special Edition number one, home is where the heart is. Meanwhile, next issue, back at the mansion, the times, they are changin'.
02:22:13
Speaker
Do you know what we're reading in the next episode? No, I don't know what we're supposed to read here. Next episode, we're reading New Mutants Special Edition number one and X-Men Annual number nine and X-Men Alpha Flight one and two.
02:22:30
Speaker
Why are these all grouped together? i guess you're gonna fucking find out. It's not Secret Wars. It has correct okay app actually has nothing to do with Secret Wars, too.
02:22:42
Speaker
Yes. He's got an eye out, stuff that could buy out. If you had time machine that you would like to try out, it's Pat Steals and Steals.
02:22:56
Speaker
Ooh, Matt, the Pat Steals and Steals theme means it's time for Pat Steals and Deals today. We're going a little abstract, maybe a little meta, if you will. Today, we have Spider-Man asking us as Marvel Comics readers, what kind of advertisements do we want to see?
02:23:21
Speaker
says, don't worry, we have no intention of running more ads. We just want to run the ones that you tell us you like.
02:23:31
Speaker
so fri So cut this ad survey out. Tell us what you how you want to advertise us to advertise to you. And then mail it to us on your own dime.
02:23:46
Speaker
You buy a stamp. And then the options are electronic games, candy, snacks, toys and models, clothing, sneakers, computers, hardware and software, and others.
02:24:00
Speaker
What if you crossed out toys and circled models and then and and sent that in 15 times?
02:24:10
Speaker
And then checked other and wrote babes. Models and babes. That's what I want to advertise. um Computers. This is strange. This is like...
02:24:22
Speaker
early model data collection yeah what's your name age and address and what kind of advertising do you wear just really bold yeah wild and it's and it's spider-man telling you to do it and you have to so you have to ruin a page of your comic book and buy a stamp this sucks yeah that's a that is legitimately a steal pat and not a deal it is stealing yes on my time and what
02:24:53
Speaker
Fair enough. How do you feel about it? I would like to see more ads for candy and snacks, I think.
02:25:03
Speaker
I want models and babes. and Maybe sneakers. He's got an eye out. Stuff that you could buy out. If you had a time machine that you would like to try out.
02:25:15
Speaker
It has seals and seals.
02:25:18
Speaker
Oh boy, folks. Thank you as always for listening to Mutant Menace, the podcast. I got sleepy during this one, Pat. um Thank you guys so much for tuning in. You can check us out on Patreon. There's a link in our show notes. Also, our Discord has a link in the show notes. There's a lot of fun people out there. Get in there. Talk to us. Oh, and email us.
02:25:43
Speaker
we We haven't gotten a lot of emails lately and we'd like love them. The inbox is running low, folks. MutantMenacePod at gmail.com. Not only do we love them, we need them to survive. Yeah, imagine imagine if next episode starts and there's no Pat's email corner.
02:26:00
Speaker
ah um Also, you can find us on Instagram, MutantMenacePod, um and If you find us on YouTube, just share, like, subscribe. All that stuff, super, super, super, super important for yeah our ah visibility to other people who might like the show, you know?
02:26:20
Speaker
um Tell a friend. tell um Tell your mom. Huge thanks, as always, to Julia Selle for providing the voice of Trish Tilby and Krils Wilson for providing most of our music.
02:26:33
Speaker
And that's it, Matt. Episode over. No, hold on. i want to say I want to say to people the thing that I say at the end of every episode that you never let me say. Right, our famous catchphrase that I've banned.
02:26:46
Speaker
Go ahead this time. All right, I'm going to say it. It is, excuse me, fella, but that's my wife.
02:26:56
Speaker
that's That's right, folks. And as always, where's George Lucas?