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China Tourism Tuesday - Episode 4
8 Plays6 months ago
A discussion with Beijing based Amy Cheng about a recent visit to the Douyin (Bytedance & Tik-Tok) headquarters in Beijing, China outbound tourism to southern Africa, east Africa, north Africa and the Middle East.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesdays, a discussion of the latest trends in marketing, international tourism destinations to China. I'm Shao Albatain coming to you from Shanghai. Hi, good day. My name is Michael Jones and I am calling from Beijing.
00:00:15
Speaker
And today we have a wonderful guest, our colleague Amy, also from Beijing. So Amy, welcome to China Tourism Tuesday. Hello, everyone.
00:00:27
Speaker
Good morning. This is Amy from Beijing. Thanks, Amy and Michael.
Trending Tourism Keywords and Incidents
00:00:34
Speaker
Just to kick us off, just to give you guys, to all our listeners, a sort of brief overview of the state of play of maybe longer-haul outbound tourism if we look at Red Note.
00:00:47
Speaker
For the weekly top trending keywords on Red Note in the tourism category, there were many, but just if we if we filter out the specific destinations,
00:00:59
Speaker
the destination keywords, one takeaway that really stands out is the rise of Japan as being a very much preferred short haul destination and the relative fall, obviously, of Thailand as a short haul destination. So Japan ranking fairly high as number one as the sort of number one destination keyword.
00:01:23
Speaker
Interestingly enough, it's followed by Iceland and then Antarctica. So we're still seeing from the Chinese New Year golden golden week travel period is that um very sort of far north and very cold, especially northern lights, destinations are still drawing a lot of engagement on red notes.
00:01:49
Speaker
And even Finland, interestingly enough, ranked just above Thailand. And Thailand even ah ah ty came in just after Finland. um Japan even ranking above ah Hong Kong this week.
00:02:02
Speaker
So interesting movements. No doubt that Thailand will reclaim its spot again at some point, um higher up the ranking scale. But because of the incident with the celebrity that was abducted, Thailand has suffered some brand damage over the past few weeks.
00:02:20
Speaker
And that's reflected in tourism numbers, as we will discuss later on. And also obviously in just the engagement on Red Note. So that's that's pretty much a wrap for our ah ah Red Note overview to give you guys a um an idea of what's going on there.
Top Tourism Destinations for Chinese New Year
00:02:37
Speaker
Moving on to Douyin, I believe, Michael, you guys have had some interesting experiences with Douyin recently. Yes, so just to add to that, um ah Amy and myself were at the ByteDance headquarters yesterday, the the parent company for ah both TikTok International and for Douyin, the domestic Chinese ah app version.
00:03:01
Speaker
um And we went there for a presentation and it was actually quite interesting. And ah exactly on the notes which you were talking about just now recently, Douyin also showed us what was their top 10 ah tourism destinations for the Chinese New Year. ah For them, ah for Douyin, at number one, it was Hong Kong.
00:03:23
Speaker
Number two, it was Macau. Number three, it was Japan. Number four, it was Thailand. Number five was, interestingly, the USA. Number six was ah Malaysia.
00:03:37
Speaker
um Number seven was Singapore. number And then number eight was Korea. ah number nine was australia and uh coming in tenth place was uh the united kingdom um so um that was also quite interesting to see i mean naturally everybody would expect hong kong and macau to be number one and number two but um yes japan also beating thailand there um and i suppose this is also a good time to ask amy about it i mean
00:04:11
Speaker
Amy, do you do you think that Japan has beaten Thailand solely based on the kind of slight issues that they had would that they had recently with the celebrity abduction?
00:04:27
Speaker
Or or is this just ah ah is this a bigger trend? what What is your gut feeling about that, Amy? Yeah, I think that issue has a major impact on the trends ah during the Chinese New Year period because we saw that that there are large cancellations from the two operators from the platforms for FIT travelers.
00:04:51
Speaker
So I think that is a key reason. But the Japan for a long time, and because they issued ah easy visa policy, so people are easier to get in the ah like three years or five years base trump travel visa from Japan government.
00:05:10
Speaker
So that is also a main reason that ah we saw a dramatic increase of the travelers to Japan. Okay. And then ah while we were at Douyin yesterday, like I mentioned, they had some um statistics ah to share with us. And um I'll just just share them, ah some fuel them out of interest.
Marketing Destinations on Douyin
00:05:32
Speaker
So Douyin's daily active users is 600 million. And um then they also showed that the the average consumption is around about two hours per person.
00:05:49
Speaker
The other one that I find quite interesting was that out of the user base, 55% were women. And what else was there?
00:05:58
Speaker
and um what else was there um they do they um on a daily daily searches are about 300 million, 300 million daily searches.
00:06:12
Speaker
um Yeah, some interesting big big oh big numbers there. um Now, I also want to just get a little bit from your insight, Amy. um So obviously, Douyin is also used for tourism marketing campaigns.
00:06:28
Speaker
um How do you feel? Where where does Douyin kind of work for? For which kind of tourism products or countries do you think it it works or works less well, it works better for? what What are your thoughts on that?
00:06:43
Speaker
I think, yes, like the management from Douyin, they they are very good at ah the the users of Douyin post short videos on Douyin.
00:07:00
Speaker
So that is, um we we also talked it to to our operators, Douyin is good platform for ah promoting short haul destinations and economical products.
00:07:14
Speaker
And if for the long haul destinations, people need more ah decent information and travel journals, they will look at other platforms such as the Red Note and the some of other professional a travel journal producers like Lonely Planet.
00:07:39
Speaker
planets etc. So that is the idea from two operators and we also saw some of the analysis doing is good for promoting short-haul destinations and economical products.
00:08:00
Speaker
Okay,
Optimal Video Length on Douyin
00:08:01
Speaker
okay. but What I also found, ah and Shol, you'd probably appreciate this better than I would, what I found really interesting was that ah the Douyin management were saying that they consider a video to be successful if somebody finished watching it.
00:08:20
Speaker
And so therefore they said, the shorter, the better. and And I mean, now we're even talking about in the realm of seconds, which are quite interesting. What do you think about that?
00:08:36
Speaker
Well, it's ah it's an interesting conundrum, actually. i mean, you you it is true that the shorter the video clip that that you put out there is that like the higher you're, they call Wan Bolo, the likelihood at which someone will finish the the video goes up.
00:08:54
Speaker
um But if you cut it too short, you're also compressing your storyline in such a way that it comes across as overly commercial. um And I think brands all often learn this the hard way. as they try to They try to compress a one-minute video down to 30 seconds, and it comes across as as too commercial, too quick, too much of a...
00:09:19
Speaker
a bombardment of the viewer and people just scroll past it. So it's a fine line to walk, um especially if you're busy marketing a tourism destination. If it's just, if it's 30 seconds of just flicking through different destinations, people can see it's an ad.
00:09:36
Speaker
it it's um It's difficult to put your finger on, but it's it's kind of switches sort of a feeling with the viewer that they're watching an ad. I would almost say that the the golden zone for having a good um completion rate of the video that they finish watching it is 45 seconds to a minute.
00:09:57
Speaker
um Any shorter than that you're coming across as rushed. So yeah, but that's interesting that they, that and I can definitely see that the algorithm prioritizes and people finishing the video and maybe watching it say a second time or a third time.
00:10:14
Speaker
That's obviously big. And tell me, um so the the videos that you make on ah on Red Note, what is the length of the videos that you normally pushing out yourself?
00:10:27
Speaker
I definitely try to control it under a minute, but yeah, like I said, more than 45 seconds. I've just found that that's just the golden, the the golden zone for, for both Douyin and for any, well, basically any algorithmically recommended video platform, because that's just ah the, the best way for people to scroll onto to your content as opposed to, you know, scrolling through an Instagram like feed and then clicking into content.
00:10:55
Speaker
um Yeah. It's about the length. Yeah,
Visa Processes and Trusted Tour Operator Scheme
00:11:00
Speaker
okay. That's really quite interesting. um Yeah, and then I suppose and um other news in the past week, um again, we're going to always say,
00:11:11
Speaker
speak a little bit about South Africa. the um The TTOS, the Trusted Tour Operator Scheme, has coming to has come online. It's now live.
00:11:22
Speaker
ah For those that don't know about that, that's a scheme whereby ah Chinese and Indian and South African tour operators sign up for a system where they can get their visas expedited.
00:11:37
Speaker
expedied um So that's apparently live and it's apparently ah already working. um And ah people can now get a tourist visa to South Africa within three days.
00:11:52
Speaker
um Amy, ah you've been dealing with the Southern African market for a very long time. um can Can you just tell us a little bit about what what the visa application situation has been like in the past for for for Southern Africa and then also South Africa, naturally?
00:12:14
Speaker
I think since the... The China outbound market reopens in 2023, which is the year before last year, and in March, so ah you' from the beginning of February.
00:12:28
Speaker
And two operators facing a major issue about the visa application periods along with the application periods. So for the individual travel visa, which is, it takes more than two months.
00:12:45
Speaker
Sometimes it takes more than three, at least six weeks to apply the for the visa, but it's not guaranteed. So that ah is a big challenge for the two operators because we all know Chinese people will not make um long-term decisions in terms terms of the traveling decisions.
00:13:09
Speaker
So they probably decide, wait, I'm going South Africa in three months time. and during the Chinese national know holiday but know how know holiday or Chinese New Year holiday.
00:13:21
Speaker
So it leaves the operators with very short ah promotional time. So we saw that also created the hesitation for two operators to promote South Africa product.
00:13:37
Speaker
that is why we saw a big dramatic increase for the eastern africa destinations
Profile of Chinese Tourists to Southern Africa
00:13:46
Speaker
like kenya and tessania but this news we saw some of the possible visa easy visa news since last year end of the last year so that people are expected to launch South African product the campaign from this year if the visa process are in place.
00:14:17
Speaker
and And what about neighboring countries like Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia? Zimbabwe, they do visa upon arrival, so that won't be a problem for them at all.
00:14:30
Speaker
And Namibia, yeah, we saw some of the small problem last year, but they but for the two operators, they only need one week visa application time.
00:14:43
Speaker
they Yeah, the embassy give them visa in one week, so that is quite easy. No, the the major issue is the long visa application period before.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah. And i just just to dive a little bit deeper onto the the Southern Africa section, um in your experience, Amy, what is the profile of the Chinese tourist that is going to Southern Africa?
00:15:13
Speaker
um Yeah. Male, female age range. um what What times of the year do they normally prefer to go? um any insights about that?
00:15:25
Speaker
I think for the Chinese travelers, especially for the outbound travelers, females still got a larger percent than male travelers.
00:15:37
Speaker
And for South Africa is a long haul destination and it we got some, the the major, the the o the most ah of the,
00:15:52
Speaker
people go to South Africa from China are still like retired people or the like middle aged to older people.
00:16:02
Speaker
And we also saw some family travelers going to South Africa ah ah before. And i also, I see that is that will be another major segment in the future. If the visa is a visa in place as in place.
00:16:22
Speaker
and And would you think that it's probably the same for East Africa, for Kenya, Tanzania? Yes, yes, because parents do like to bring their kids to see the immigrants.
00:16:36
Speaker
Oh, the Great Migration. yeah Yeah, Great Migration. Yeah. Okay, cool.
Facilitating Direct Bookings in South Africa
00:16:41
Speaker
And then I wanted to ask you, Charles, we saw something recently with a Red Note and Resort Bookings Direct.
00:16:52
Speaker
um Can you tell us a little bit more about that? little bit of background to that? Oh, yeah. no so we've had ah we've had a very um sort of heartening development happening on Red Note recently with... one of the clients that we are representing in the China market, a South African property called the Aquila collection.
00:17:11
Speaker
So what we've seen is that we have we have somebody administrating the account full time and getting booking inquiries from FIT tourists via direct message.
00:17:24
Speaker
And this is something that I suspected was going to happen sooner than later with with South Africa, but it's clearly now that you know there's a bit more hope with the visa situation.
00:17:37
Speaker
that there's more interest coming from FITs on Xiaohongshu. Now, Xiaohongshu users are obviously very English savvy. You know, for most of these inquiries, we've seen that they are able to use the, you know, Aquila Collection official website themselves. They can go make bookings themselves.
00:17:56
Speaker
They're quite competent and confident in in fully planning their own trips or you or perhaps even part semi-FIT planning their trips.
00:18:07
Speaker
So this is something that I knew was was going to happen sooner or later because anybody who administers a Xiaohongshu official account for any tourism destination knows that you are flooded with inquiries about everything from is the visa easy to arrange, um how far is it from point a to point B. um It's very labor intensive for somebody who is sitting behind the screen who is who's fielding all of these questions.
00:18:34
Speaker
But I'm very glad to see that, you know, with with more internationally savvy travelers um on red notes, that they are going towards booking directly, which is, a yeah, it's it's encouraging.
00:18:47
Speaker
And um I'm guessing that this is also, again, connected to the new visa system that's coming to play. Surely it's it's related to that um ah in terms of that there's better sentiment about people feel that they they're going to get their visa more easily. um You know, the actual implementation, we will will watch that space.
00:19:09
Speaker
But um it just show it goes to show, you know, South Africa still offers incredible appeal and value for for global travelers, and that includes Chinese travelers.
00:19:21
Speaker
If you want to see the big five, if you want to, you know, have ah an all-around experience of, you know, wine tasting and urban culture, sea, seaside, marine ah tourism, you know, South Africa does still offer...
00:19:37
Speaker
a very competitive proposition relative to even Kenya and Tanzania, East Africa, ah despite the fact that they have, ah you know, the great migration going for them.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
Social Media and Travel Trends
00:19:50
Speaker
And well, I mean, while we've got Amy on the show, Amy, um I don't know, just ah what are there any interesting new trends or any new stories from the Chinese outbound tourism that you've come across recently that you think might have be of interest to the listeners?
00:20:07
Speaker
Yes, I think there is an interesting findings. yeah Yeah, we it just discovered recently and we all know ah for some of the tourism destinations, they work closely with the tour operators and ah to encourage tour operators to develop create ah you innovative product packages and the like products.
00:20:32
Speaker
in-depth travel packages. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't work because the two operators, like they their decisions based on the client's feedback.
00:20:48
Speaker
so for some of the tailor-made tour operators luxury travel agencies. And we talked to some tour operators and they came to us and asked for more information and the contact on the island of Yemen.
00:21:06
Speaker
It's called Socotra. It's a on the Indian Ocean. I just did the research of the island. It is World UNESCO natural heritage.
00:21:18
Speaker
And there is a famous ah Japanese video game called Zelda. eight Actually, some of the scene in the video game as was inspired by the scene, natural scene on the island.
00:21:34
Speaker
So the two operators, they they you have absolutely very limited knowledge about that island until the clients came to them. So and they are the clients, where they get the information, they get the information on the Red Note and some of the travel journals.
00:21:54
Speaker
So it's ah vice versa, ah like the ah the the social media actually played a key role in the consumer's decision making.
00:22:08
Speaker
Well, so, I mean, I'll be honest, ive been in this industry for a while. i haven't heard of many people going on holiday to an island of Yemen before. um That that that sounds it sounds quite adventurous and bit audacious.
00:22:25
Speaker
um So, I mean, in in your view now, this this new destination, do you do you think it's got the potential to to become quite popular?
00:22:37
Speaker
ah I think because it's ah it's a not well-done island, there is only one flight from Etihad Airway. They operate flight from Abu Dhabi to this island. that That's the only flight.
00:22:54
Speaker
flying to this island. so ah i think it's a small island. They do some natural protective works on the island. i so It will not be massive travelers to go in there, but it shows if there is some place with unique resources and ah Even there is that it is well known before, but if we do some work on the social media, it will have a good result.
00:23:31
Speaker
Okay.
Interest in North Africa and Flight Connectivity
00:23:33
Speaker
And um I think lastly, to kind of get close to rounding it off, Amy, I'd also like to hear, um what are your views of ah how's the Chinese outbound tourism market viewing North north Africa ah most recently?
00:23:51
Speaker
um i mean, we we see Morocco National Tourism Board is ah running a roadshow in Beijing. um They're doing another one in Shanghai tomorrow. um I mean, Morocco received in total 17.5 million international tourists last year, beating their ah previous targets.
00:24:10
Speaker
um They've now got two direct flights um from China connecting with Morocco. So obviously, Morocco tourism is working extremely hard in in the China market.
00:24:23
Speaker
um but ah yeah so So just generally for for north North Africa in terms of flight connectivity and potential and interest, so what are your thoughts about thoughts about that?
00:24:36
Speaker
yeah I think for North Africa, it's so we we talk about North Africa, africa people always say yeah ah Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria.
00:24:50
Speaker
so for the um egypt is ah already a very popular destination for chinese travelers and with morocco air and china eastern airline uh launched the direct flight from beijing and the shanghai so there are there will be a dramatic increase for the of the numbers of travelers traveling to Morocco and Tunisia.
00:25:18
Speaker
And also there are some two operators operating charter flight to Algeria with Algeria Airlines. It taste it was um good achievement.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, great. And, Charles, from your side, any interesting um stories or tales from the past week?
Brazil's Engagement in Chinese Tourism
00:25:44
Speaker
Just something interesting I saw um for ITB twenty twenty five It looks like brands are beginning to um yeah slowly get their plans going. It's coming up from May 27th to 29th.
00:26:00
Speaker
um And it looks like Brazil, Brazil's Embrator is also committing to participate again in ITB China, which is ah which is a positive development for BRICS as a whole and for Latin America as well as ah as a sort of large region.
00:26:18
Speaker
I do know that um there have been some hiccups with um you know the the visas with Brazil, with Chinese tourists accessing Brazil. But it looks like we're moving towards more engagement on the tourism front between Brazil and China.
00:26:34
Speaker
So, yeah, happy happy to see that. And I hope that more brands will be attending ITB China this year. Great.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:26:43
Speaker
Well, guys, I i think that's a good for ah for today's ah episode four. I'd like to very much ah thank Amy for joining us on China Tourism Tuesday. It's ah been great to Hangouts and chat with you from Beijing.
00:26:59
Speaker
um From my side, um I think the episode five, China Tourism Tuesday will be Shaul and I sitting together in Shanghai. ah So look forward to that.
00:27:11
Speaker
And um yeah, thank you everybody for your time. My pleasure. Great. Thanks, guys. To all our listeners, if you have any questions or comments about the topics discussed in today's episode, you can feel free to send us an email at marketing at cconsulting.com.cn or you can contact us on our LinkedIn profile by searching for Create Consulting China.
00:27:35
Speaker
We look forward to hearing from you. And thank you, Amy and Michael. Cool. Bye, guys. Bye-bye.